Open 707 - JK9++ [Endgame]
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Impede
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Impede Goon
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Impede Goon
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Impede Goon
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Impede Goon
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Impede Goon
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Impede Goon
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Impede Goon
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Impede Goon
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Impede Goon
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Wow what a snoozefest. All the theory talk isn't game-advancing at all. I know Math is posting up a readslist, so I'll do the same. This is mostly gut off of reading the past 2-3 pages.
Momo, Jay
Math, A50
Kop, Hawk
Una, Fitz
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Everyone else isnullfor lack of content.Town: 5-1 | Scum: 0-1
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Impede Goon
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Impede Goon
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Red, seems to me that momo’s frustration was genuine. He seemed annoyed that town would multi-vote since it only makes the game confusing.
The flip side is, it’s probably a decent reaction test to make it look like someone got hammered. So I disagree somewhat, but he at least seemed to be genuine.
Pedit: Momo makes a good point about the Jay wagon. This makes Red look bad. However, I don’t like momo’s confidence in townreading A50. Seems contrived.Town: 5-1 | Scum: 0-1
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Impede Goon
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Scum would say this. Just FYI. Totally NAI, but this is EXACTLY how scum would capitalize on this sort of situation correctly.In post 162, Almost50 wrote:
momo TRs me for 2 reasons, the first of which is I acknowledged his play is usually scummy as Town and even provided reference, so -to him- I must be Town bc I did not capitalize on the fact he is lynch-bait.In post 161, Impede wrote:However, I don’t like momo’s confidence in townreading A50. Seems contrived.
The second reason I'd rather not go into, but I'd say it was a false assumption on his part.
So, both momo and Mathdino are correctly TRing me but for the wrong reasons.Town: 5-1 | Scum: 0-1
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Impede Goon
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I think you're either wrong, or right for the wrong reason.In post 168, Mathdino wrote:Unas town so there's 1/5 of your nulls solvedTown: 5-1 | Scum: 0-1
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Impede Goon
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Impede Goon
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Why do you say he is most likely scum?In post 241, RedFlavor wrote:If he was mislynched in other games it does not mean that he is town every game and he is most likely scum in this gameTown: 5-1 | Scum: 0-1
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Mostly for producing posts without content. The catch-up is nice though, so stay tuned. Need to reevaluate a bit.
Town: 5-1 | Scum: 0-1
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He did answer it, but the consensus was/is that it was a weak answer. Giving him an opportunity to provide a real scumread that has nothing to do with the "double voting" crap. Otherwise, it seems to me that he'd acknowledge that his vote rationale is flimsy and remove it.In post 245, sheepsaysmeep wrote:
he definitely answered this iirc, this feels like asking a question for the sake of asking a questionIn post 244, Impede wrote:
Why do you say he is most likely scum?In post 241, RedFlavor wrote:If he was mislynched in other games it does not mean that he is town every game and he is most likely scum in this game
Also, this isn't accomplishing anything right now. UNVOTE:
pedit: The case on Red is good. Dude comes off opportunistic and not really interested in advancing any meaningful discussion.
I want to throw this out there though: What if Red is just bad/newb town? Are we cool with policy lynching? It seems to me based on other play I've seen from him that there's a decent chance he's just a careless player and may just be throwing out bad content just to keep active.
As far as policy lynching goes, I love policy lynching and will string someone up in a heartbeat if there's a decent chance they are either scum or just bad/lurking. Just want to be sure that we're convinced that he's either NOT newbtowning or that we SHOULD be policy lynching.
pedit2: Jay, I agree. Need to see a real readslist from you. Doesn't have to have all the justification there I suppose, as long as you'll field questions.Town: 5-1 | Scum: 0-1
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In post 184, Mathdino wrote: You'd be even less believable if you claimed hider and then said "whoops I don't have any results to share withthe class".In post 251, Mathdino wrote:@fitz:Impede-scum is an unpopular choice. Sell me/the rest of the classon it? Would be good to have competing wagons.
Just found this lol. Jay is one-upping your "class" analogy pretty hard.In post 258, JaydragonKing wrote: Please demonstrate towardsthe classyour answer and your personal reasoning.This project will be worth 20% of your final grade.
In all seriousness though, a few questions:
1) I'm thinking that a lot of Jay's behavior is somewhat likely to be frustration-driven because he's been ragged on this entire game.@Math, are you confident that his scummy behavior (it IS scummy) isn't just a result of being badgered?
2)@Sheep, you literally just got done saying that you preferred Red over Jay. It made sense to me at the time, but now you're on the Jaywagon. Why did you prefer Red over Jay initially and what changed your mind?Town: 5-1 | Scum: 0-1
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Useless is when you say "OMG GUYS NOOOO WE'RE GONNA LOSE NOW (statistically)". If you want to be useful, you should propose a way that we should go about this game. Do you have any proposals or, better yet, any suspicions relevant to our ACTUAL game that we are in right now as opposed to games that have been played in the past which have no bearing on today?In post 255, JaydragonKing wrote:Me giving the setup history wasn't really useless for those of us who can study the previous uses of this setup for better strats, Dino. People can disagree with what I said, but none of what I've said is truly useless. The fact that you consider stuff like that useless is more telling to me, honestly.
pedit: That's the most bizarre readslist I could possibly think of for this game. It literally just looks like one giant OMGUS to me.
Why do you scumread Creature and townread Kop? Also, don't ignore my other question in this post.Town: 5-1 | Scum: 0-1
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Impede Goon
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Thanks, I think this gives me what I need.In post 265, JaydragonKing wrote:My town read comes from my earlier conversation with Kop, because he didn't just drag me through the dirt more for making a mistake and isn't advocating "policy Lynch" like Dino every other post. His posts also seem like a town agenda to me. Likewise with Momo, but particularly because of his annoyance with the multi-votes and my gut agreeing that he's townie.
The almost town is have big moments in the game so far and honestly seem to want too find scum. They're the leans.
The Nulls is due to Una not being around recently and Assemble not being here period. Fits vote on me honestly can make a little bit of sense with his reasoning, and your currently moving your way up to townlean, Impede.
I agree with most of the reasons of why Red is scum, and Creature is there because not only is his RVS vote still on me after all this time, his only relevant comment recently was answering Math's general question to everyone in one sentence only after Dino shit on me for saying "none", he didn't want the same thing and just said it to say he was there.
As for Dino? I'm not even going to try to read him right now because, like you said, the fustration and his constant shitting on anything I do makes me want to Lynch him for no other reason then to just increase my enjoyment of the game. But not only is that hurtful to town, it also is just going to make me look worse. I want to actually contribute nicely, but I decided to also be a shithead and post my reads the way I did if for no other reason then to annoy him.
Sheep has literally changed his mind Instantly after saying things twice. His name is accurate. He doesn't seem like he wants to help town but instead get rid of whoever someone else wants to get rid of, probably to get on their good side.
Answering your first question, Impede: Yeah, I say Creature is a possible choice as Scum. I say he should be put towards the center of attention now to see what he does.
VOTE: Creature
VOTE: JayTown: 5-1 | Scum: 0-1
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Wtf? Epically disagree. I could just as easily argue that he's trying to defuse the wagon by sounding all cryptic and wise, while being non-specific so that he doesn't actually have to have a plan.In post 271, Mathdino wrote:
Please just explain. Game's slow enough that I think you're gonna have to wait a while before you get answers from everyone.In post 267, UnaBombaH wrote:I also want everyone to try again on who they scumread/want to lynch for today.
Both Elsa and Red are on the table as lynch-candidates, but I have reason to believe I already found scum, and his buddies conveniently "missed" the tells.
Turning towards the easy target (Elsa) right now makes me think there's already scum in the wagon..
In case you needed more evidence on Una being town, A50, there you go. Scum doesn't write shit like this.Town: 5-1 | Scum: 0-1
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You're not going to gain anything by trying to get someone to blindly and independently verify what you've found in this game. Better to make your case and see how it's received.In post 267, UnaBombaH wrote:I have a feeling I'm missing a vital part of someones progression here when I read pages 5-10.
I also want everyone to try again on who they scumread/want to lynch for today.
Both Elsa and Red are on the table as lynch-candidates, but I have reason to believe I already found scum, and his buddies conveniently "missed" the tells.
Turning towards the easy target (Elsa) right now makes me think there's already scum in the wagon..Town: 5-1 | Scum: 0-1
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This is utterly and completely valid.In post 281, UnaBombaH wrote:If this wasn't posted by scum, I'm not sure what kind of a townie it would be posted by.Town: 5-1 | Scum: 0-1
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Una, what's your take on Jay? You really think he's just lynchbait?
pedit: Definitely not what I was getting at. And your case on A50 is decent on its face. I'll be reviewing. Also, not a fan of introducing further WIFOM layers by trying to predict what scum will do in-thread. Makes everything more annoying to analyze.Town: 5-1 | Scum: 0-1
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Impede Goon
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Hey all... Catching up.
See below:In post 270, JaydragonKing wrote:... Can I at least get your reason for your vote now, Impede?
All that to say, you managed to push me more towards scum/PL territory with that post than towards town whose play might improve.In post 265, JaydragonKing wrote:My town read comes from my earlier conversation with Kop, because he didn't just drag me through the dirt more for making a mistake and isn't advocating "policy Lynch" like Dino every other post. His posts also seem like a town agenda to me. Likewise with Momo, but particularly because of his annoyance with the multi-votes and my gut agreeing that he's townie.
These are purely self-interested reads.
The almost town is have big moments in the game so far and honestly seem to want too find scum. They're the leans.
The Nulls is due to Una not being around recently and Assemble not being here period. Fits vote on me honestly can make a little bit of sense with his reasoning, and your currently moving your way up to townlean, Impede.
Giving Fitz some credit here seems contrived... like you're trying to throw us off the scent that all your reads are OMGUS. The nod to me also seems a bit like buddying, but idk, maybe you actually have a reason for this
I agree with most of the reasons of why Red is scum, and Creature is there because not only is his RVS vote still on me after all this time, his only relevant comment recently was answering Math's general question to everyone in one sentence only after Dino shit on me for saying "none", he didn't want the same thing and just said it to say he was there.
Red was an easy out for you and your response was an easy one too. "Agree with most" is a very safe phrasing here. The RVS vote thing with Creature is pretty weak. So is the activity assessment without making any mention that it would basically be a PL
As for Dino? I'm not even going to try to read him right now because, like you said, the fustration and his constant shitting on anything I do makes me want to Lynch him for no other reason then to just increase my enjoyment of the game. But not only is that hurtful to town, it also is just going to make me look worse. I want to actually contribute nicely, but I decided to also be a shithead and post my reads the way I did if for no other reason then to annoy him.
You admit here that you are in OMGUS territory. This is actually a bit refreshing, because up until now I wasn't positive you were self-aware. However, it's concerning because it means that you know your anti-town behavior is anti-town.
Sheep has literally changed his mind Instantly after saying things twice. His name is accurate. He doesn't seem like he wants to help town but instead get rid of whoever someone else wants to get rid of, probably to get on their good side.
This smells like OMGUS as well. It's so redundant at this point though that it almost comes off like VI behavior. Which doesn't really dissuade my vote much tbh because, as stated previously, I love me a policy lynch.
Answering your first question, Impede: Yeah, I say Creature is a possible choice as Scum. I say he should be put towards the center of attention now to see what he does.
VOTE: Creature
It's a weird top scumread to have and definitely don't agree with your rationale, but trying to wagon Creature is actually town-productive hereTown: 5-1 | Scum: 0-1
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Bookmarking this. This is fence-sitty enough on A50 to suggest an associative read if we get a scumflip on either him or Math.In post 318, Mathdino wrote:Idea of Una-scum is crazy. He hasn't convinced me on his reads yet but he's definitely convinced me on his alignment.
A point in A50's favour is that he redirected the whole game to suddenly focus on a budding Creature wagon, which seems to consist solely of scummy players. I don't see the scum motivation yet.
I could strong-scumread A50 later but he's not a good D1 lynch.
For D1 lynches I like lynching players that the consensus agrees are too scummy to stay in the game or read properly for the rest of the game. The players that'll continue being on everyone's lynchlists until we do the deed. Not the players that are clearly contributing new/original ideas. Even if they're scum, they're helping us in the meantime by giving us more material to analyse later.
A50 and Hawk are in that boat (fitz too but less so since I'm townreading him); I could scumread them, and I'm having serious trouble reading them now, but that's D1 syndrome. When players like that are scum, I usually catch them D2.
Gimme a different scumread to work with.
D1 lynch rationale is nice though, but scum could just as easily post this.Town: 5-1 | Scum: 0-1
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In post 306, Creature wrote:
Strange, both feel like mislynches.In post 303, sheepsaysmeep wrote:like lynches in red/jayIn post 308, Creature wrote:They look more like VIs and easy mislynches for me.
This is mostly worthless without meta to go off of. You can't vouch for what would be ML bait vs scum behavior in someone without some sort of baseline. I can appreciate that this is probably just a gut feel you have, but you can't expect anyone else to get behind it unless you actually have something of substance to present.In post 335, Creature wrote:
VIs.In post 313, havingfitz wrote:
And ironically they are both voting you.In post 308, Creature wrote:They look more like VIs and easy mislynches for me.Town: 5-1 | Scum: 0-1
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This is wolfy. I could see this being town trying to pressure a scumread, but it comes off as contrived.In post 311, Almost50 wrote:
Listen to you. You're making no cases, no effort to sort anyone. You're not voting, and you're defending whoever the majority thinks maybe good lynches w/o giving any rational reason for it nor providing an alternative.In post 308, Creature wrote:They look more like VIs and easy mislynches for me.
Now I acknowledge I have seen you do this as Town too, but I'm not even getting that sinking feeling you're Town here.
Like why do you think I picked YOU as my hypothetical target if I was Hider?Town: 5-1 | Scum: 0-1
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Such a weird post. You have this perception that this entire game revolves around your own survival (and by extension, so does everyone else's gameplay). You really need to drop this. His calling you VIs is not an attempt to get you to unvote... that's not a sensible playstyle. It's an attempt to express HIS belief that you are town. THIS is why you are getting scumread dude. You aren't prioritizing gamesolving over your own survival and it makes it really hard to want you alive during a more critical gamestate.In post 339, JaydragonKing wrote:Calling us Village Idiots is not something that will make either of our votes move off of you, Creature. It does the opposite, in fact. That is also dismissive as all hell towards any suspicion on you.Town: 5-1 | Scum: 0-1
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I didn't hear you sneeze and cough, so it's hard to say. I do hear a lot of "woof woof" though.In post 345, Almost50 wrote:
You know what? I've just sneezed AND coughed. I bet "now you could see it being Town catching a cold", but it would still comes off as scummy sneezing/coughing to you. Right? Right!In post 341, Impede wrote:
This is wolfy. I could see this being town trying to pressure a scumread, but it comes off as contrived.In post 311, Almost50 wrote:
Listen to you. You're making no cases, no effort to sort anyone. You're not voting, and you're defending whoever the majority thinks maybe good lynches w/o giving any rational reason for it nor providing an alternative.In post 308, Creature wrote:They look more like VIs and easy mislynches for me.
Now I acknowledge I have seen you do this as Town too, but I'm not even getting that sinking feeling you're Town here.
Like why do you think I picked YOU as my hypothetical target if I was Hider?Town: 5-1 | Scum: 0-1
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In post 346, sheepsaysmeep wrote:
holy shitIn post 344, JaydragonKing wrote:Sheep, please go to the mafiascum wiki and look up VI. In fact, I'm just saying it now. It means Village Idiot. Do you think 335 that his "VIs" mean villagers? Use context, bud.
--- Post Edit ---
I'm going out of my way to point out suspicious behaviour yet now your also saying it's just because I'm looking for survival. Also dismissive.
Also, him calling us Village Idiots ≠ he thinks we're Town. It means he's dismissing us as actual players and is also trying to make it so you just leave him alone.
village idiot is villager
he thinks youre townI read it as Village Idiot. Which I don't actually associate to a role, more to the concept of someone who is newbtown/ML bait.
Town: 5-1 | Scum: 0-1
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Decided to take a closer look at Kop rather than continue lazily nullreading him. Not enough for me to want to vote him, but it's moved him to a scumlean for me.
Didn't really take notice of this at the time because of how forced Math's readslist was, but it echoes my exact sentiment of Kop's early play.In post 79, Mathdino wrote: Kop: POLICY LYNCH. idk him giving advice to jay seems really forced, the way he's doing it. like he's speaking as a player and not as a townie?
His entrance with the hammer response and all of the being LAMIST while also trying to look annoyed at Jay just comes off wrong. Lots of nice theory talk, but no real content.
This is a jankity post. But it demonstrates two things to me: 1) Kop seems meticulous about his posts (scummy imho, but maybe personality), 2) For all the effort, he actually put no effort into understanding town motivation for Math's readslist and took it as an opportunity to discredit and vote.In post 90, Kop wrote:Can you elaborate on some of these, because this is striking me as forced reads. Your accusing me of looking forced, this is more forced shit rather than actual reads.
How does Almost50 look town, what does town look like? He's made one RVS vote, and one filler post. How does that make him look town?
Creature, if you believe he is nullscum, why aren't you voting him since he's virtually your only scum read?
Impede, how is he towning around?
Jay, so your happy to lynch someone just to learn them to stop acting scummy, rather than actually lynching someone who you scum read? Do you scum read Jay or not?
Myself, your talking about policy lynching someone on page 4, and no reason because Fitz has painted myself as a policy lynch because of previous games.
Overall, reading these reads, I don't think they are actually genuine reads right now, and is just trying to look active.
VOTE: Mathdino
After the previous post, this is very diplomatic. Why make nice-nice here? Any town motivation one might've ascertained from his previous post just went out the window because he just released all the pressure he applied to Math.In post 123, Kop wrote:@math I understand your reason by how or why you've posted the reads, I just felt they were forced rather than actual reads. Some of them I didn't agree with but I'll follow your thoughts and see how you progress with them.
Here, Kop shows up out of nowhere (holidays, I'm sure, ) and immediately sheeps Fitz. He clearly didn't want to be accused of sheeping though, so we get another meticulously crafted post and even an attempt at some original vote rationale. Problem is, the rationale is jank. The whole point of the hypoclaim in this scenario was to cover all our bases (at least that's how I understood it) so I picked a target that wasn't a hard and fast townread across the board, but who I felt wasn't scummy enough to have a reasonable chance of getting me killed. Using the hypoclaim as a basis for a vote is also really wolfy. It's purely intended as an information source if we get a Hider flip, so most town aren't going to put an excessive amount of thought into it, but the fact that he assumes that oneIn post 322, Kop wrote:VOTE: Impede
This is a wagon outside of Jay/red that I'd like to take off. I don't necessarily scum read Jay, but I just feel he's being hard pressed into a mislynch, I just don't think scum would be that stupid to focus all of the attention onto themselves in the manner he has done since gamestart. I obviously wouldn't like to think that we could possibly go into LYLO with him but I'm wanting to go into different areas rather than focus on him for days on end.
Impede on the other hand, has given me nothing to note that I could town read him for, and I do like the case Fitz has put out against Impede. Last few pages that I have been reading, his name was popping out quite a bit. His vote on Jay doesn't make any sense to me at all, I wouldn't call it opportunistic, it felt more of a let go vote. If this wagon takes off and Impede flips scum, I would 100% go back for Jay because of how that vote felt to me.
Another point I didn't quite work out, he stated that he would hide behind Momo, why would you hide behind Momo considering he had him in his town read in post #152? Why would you not hide behind Fitz, or Una who you were scum reading? I understand hiding behind your town reads would give you a better chance of living, but also confirming your reads, doesn't give anything to gamestate because you don't really confirm anything, because you could be scum lying about being the hider and the hider might not even be in the game.shouldput a lot of thought into it seems to indicate that he's in a scum mindset where he has to go out of his way to choose his target carefully. This might be reaching or confbias, so feel free to shoot me down... it just doesn't sit well with me.
I did too initially. Only checked the ongoing list when I realized what the intent was. I picked Momo BEFORE verifying that no one else did. Not that this matters. It just verifies that Kop is being very meticulous.In post 327, Kop wrote:I understand that point on what your trying to make, but from my understanding, it would be useful if they went with there feels, rather than 'oh he's took him, I'll take someone else'. That way I can see what they are feeling and not going with the flow of the game.
I chose mine, without even looking at others, and went with what I feel I would have done if this were the real case.
Maybe I'm annoyed because I'm the target of this statement, but advocating for a lynch because it's more informational rather than based on scumminess is alarming. I get that there's an unspoken subtext that "yeah you lynch someone scummy, but you should try to optimize the information you get from it", but he doesn't address the relative merits of lynching me vs lynching Jay based on scumminess, he only gets at the information we gain and then weirdly suggests that we would have to lynch Jay eventually. Possible scum setting up lynches?In post 330, Kop wrote:
How do you read Impede right now?In post 323, Mathdino wrote:Quick thing, I picked fitz first and I encouraged everyone to pick different hider targets so it wouldn't draw the NK to any one person in particular.
Impede case isn't bad. It's convinced me out of a townread. Hasn't convinced me into a scumread. I see a lot of flak for his interaction with Jay, which I actually like. Seems natural to me.
I understand you have your sights set on Jay, and I do agree with you with what you are saying, but personally I'd rather go for someone who can give us more information going into day two so we can get a stronger read on others, I feel lynching Jay on day one, isn't going to give us anything and reads won't be as strong as they would by lynching someone who gives us more. Jay will never be shot, so that is going to obviously be in the back of everyones mind and someone we don't want in LYLO, but he can easily be done on day 2 or 3 if we aren't further forward in lynching scum.
Again, I don't think I want to detract from the existing wagon activity by moving my vote, but wanted to throw this out here and see if anyone thinks I'm not just excessively scumlensing.Town: 5-1 | Scum: 0-1
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You basically just said "tell me how it comes off as contrived without saying that it 'comes off as' anything". The very fact that I said "comes off as" indicates that it's a tone/gut read.In post 359, Almost50 wrote:
OK, let's play. You acknowledge 311 could be "town trying to pressure a scumread", yet you say it comes off as "contrived". Why? What points to it being deliberately manufactured rather than a natural/spontaneous response?In post 348, Impede wrote:
I didn't hear you sneeze and cough, so it's hard to say. I do hear a lot of "woof woof" though.In post 345, Almost50 wrote:
You know what? I've just sneezed AND coughed. I bet "now you could see it being Town catching a cold", but it would still comes off as scummy sneezing/coughing to you. Right? Right!In post 341, Impede wrote:
This is wolfy. I could see this being town trying to pressure a scumread, but it comes off as contrived.In post 311, Almost50 wrote:
Listen to you. You're making no cases, no effort to sort anyone. You're not voting, and you're defending whoever the majority thinks maybe good lynches w/o giving any rational reason for it nor providing an alternative.In post 308, Creature wrote:They look more like VIs and easy mislynches for me.
Now I acknowledge I have seen you do this as Town too, but I'm not even getting that sinking feeling you're Town here.
Like why do you think I picked YOU as my hypothetical target if I was Hider?
Hint: "Gut" is not an acceptable answer. You're already deep in with your conf!bias mode, so every gut feeling you have is simply due your presumption I will flip Scum. I want an answer that does NOT take into account any presumptions, but rather objectively addressing the content of said post. Thank you.
To humor you though: You jump down Creature's throat for stating something that essentially amounts to a gut read. I agree that his posting is lazy af and he needs to produce actual content, but your response was overblown ("Listen to you.", "Why do you think"). That sort of predatory aggression is either scum trying to start a lynch mob, or town trying to apply pressure, but the latter doesn't jive, as you could have put him in the hotseat and forced him to be accountable for his lack of content without being opportunistically aggressive. I don't know your playstyle, so maybe this is normal for you, but it was dissonant to me.Town: 5-1 | Scum: 0-1
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You better go back and check all the posts you made promising to do _____ on next reads list. I know of at least one off hand and I remember wanting to see it.In post 362, Mathdino wrote:Good. I'm satisfied. Welcome to the game, Jay.
UNVOTE: Jay
New vote on next reads list.
In other news, what on earth changed your mind? Jay is doing more of the same with his most recent posts, just coming at it from a different angle. All of his posts seem geared towards getting votes off of himself.Town: 5-1 | Scum: 0-1
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My bad. Normally I'm very liberal with snips and spoiler tags, but I'm on my lunch break, so being a bit lazy.In post 367, Mathdino wrote:jesus christ guys stop quote-walling
i'm starting to tune out this argumentTown: 5-1 | Scum: 0-1
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Valid. I could say the same about all of your survival posting too, but I feel like it would be beating a dead horse.In post 365, JaydragonKing wrote:Please tell me you all see what the points Almost and I have made so far about him? He literally doesn't give a shit. This is not a town response at all.
However, are you advocating a lynch purely based on lack of content/motivation? If so, what makes you certain that this isn't just lazy/unmotivated town as opposed to lurky/smug scum?
Pedit: There aren't any scumtells in Creature's posts. Just lots of PL fodder. Again, I love a good policy lynch, but it has to be a GOOD one. Convince me that (1) Creature has a higher probability of flipping red than you and (2) Creature has a lower probability of being town-productive than you, and I will add my vote to your wagon, if for no other reason than to try and scrounge up some motivation from him.Town: 5-1 | Scum: 0-1
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wtf its not momo. It's A50. He's not being cryptic anymore.In post 392, Mathdino wrote:
I'm beginning to think you're being cryptic because you know people will townread you for it (like me). That's really the only benefit of doing this, and I honestly think the drawbacks of slowing the game down outweigh the gains.In post 390, UnaBombaH wrote:I'll offer a deal to all the townies around after I've had a good night sleep..there is a lynch we can pull off today, and not likely later!
Is it momo?Town: 5-1 | Scum: 0-1
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ding ding dingIn post 401, Mathdino wrote:So momo just rocketed to the top of my town list.Town: 5-1 | Scum: 0-1
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Hooooo...... wow. I am going to reread this like 30 times and then decide if momo just tricked scum into scumslipping successfully.In post 403, momo wrote:
The fact that you checked the wiki...you should have immediately denied the claim because you know your role. And I highly doubt you always keep the wiki open for a circumstance like this, especially in D1 when hardly anyone claims. When I asked if you were mason, are you telling me that town's first reaction would be to check if there was a mason in this setup? B.S.!In post 402, JaydragonKing wrote:I'll have you know I was thinking of a response in a different game on site as well as putting on a music video on YouTube that I like listening too while I type.
And yeah, I keep the wiki open in an alt tab at all times to catch liars if they claim a bullshit role. No hiding that. I won't say I didn't check the wiki to be sure of no Mason because that would be a lie.
Anything Elsa?
So you have been caught lying twice in one post. Tell me class, which faction lies when questioned, scum or town?
(P.S. I totally one-upped the class analogy with this post..Score!)Town: 5-1 | Scum: 0-1
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You scumread Creature at this point A50? Is that why you chose him as your target?In post 182, Almost50 wrote:If I were the hider, I would hide behind Creature.Town: 5-1 | Scum: 0-1
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It was cool, but it didn't really do that much except cause me to make a mental note to never townread you for this type of thing ever again.In post 414, momo wrote:This right here makes me wonder if I should retire from mafia and quit while I'm ahead. After this game ends, be prepared for a revamped sig.Town: 5-1 | Scum: 0-1
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In post 425, Almost50 wrote: Obviously! He was not contributing much back then, and is still doing zilch now!
But these two posts were made within 5 hours of each other, during which time Creature did not post, and no discussion was had about him. How did you change from no read to scumread?In post 426, Almost50 wrote:And I was only 3rd (if I recall correct) to state my hypo-target, so I literally had 80% of the playerlist up for grabs.
In post 166, Almost50 wrote:It's too early in the day for me to give up on my own reads and sheep you, Mathdino. Would you care to restate the case on Redflavor?
I'm currently working by PoE, and granted there are also mixed reads, but I have no reads on Finn, Kop, Fitz, Una & Creature, so I need them all to speak more.In post 182, Almost50 wrote:If I were the hider, I would hide behind Creature.Town: 5-1 | Scum: 0-1
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I just got done asking him if he hid behind Creature because of a SR and he said yes. Read.In post 439, sheepsaysmeep wrote:you dont necessarily hide behind sr'sTown: 5-1 | Scum: 0-1
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The hell? Why would you hardclaim now. Sigh.In post 440, JaydragonKing wrote:... *sigh*
I've been the target of today's Lynch since page fucking one. I've said all I can, honestly, about my innocence before I had took my nap. Whether it's by scum read or policy Lynch, half of you want me dead.
But just humor me while I'm alive, okay? If I flip Vigilante, how much do you want to be sold on the scum team being Impede/Creature?
UNVOTE:
pedit: I think this is the only way to get content out of him. Sheep!
VOTE: AssembleTown: 5-1 | Scum: 0-1
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There are so many dumb-as-hell arguments in this post that I almost don't even want to bother responding. But knowing that I'll get scumread for ignoring you again... here you go:
In post 436, Almost50 wrote:@momo: Jay is very likely Town to me. They're just being stubborn and overly confrontational (which is annoying somewhat, but is most certainly a TOWN trait). I also liked their reads, so I'm not really feeling scum!Jay here.
Instead, I invite you to check this out:
In post 152, Impede wrote:Wow what a snoozefest. All the theory talk isn't game-advancing at all. I know Math is posting up a readslist, so I'll do the same. This is mostly gut off of reading the past 2-3 pages.
Momo, Jay
Math, A50
Kop, Hawk
Una, Fitz
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Everyone else isnullfor lack of content.
These quotes are only just over 6 hours apart.In post 161, Impede wrote:However, I don’t like momo’s confidence in townreading A50. Seems contrived.
Actually they are about 18 hours and 30 minutes apart... not that it matters. I wasn't providing a change in reads with that second post. Just observing that his confidence seemed fake. I townleaned BOTH of you and continued to even after that post.
From then on he starts throwing shade on me for everything I say, pushes Jay (and votes him), shades Mathdino, agrees with Una while actively maintaining a SR on him, but never votes him, and totally ignores the discussion when I ask him how he would have had me phrase my thoughts (about Creature) w/o them sounding "overly aggressive" to him.
These are the posts where I even mention you. 170 was directed at your response to my 152 which you quoted, where I even said that it was NAI, 288 and 336 weren't even directed at you and are hardly throwing shade, and 341 is the actual post where I call you out. Didn't respond to your question about "how i would phrase it"
because it was moronic and an exercise in futility. Not going to argue for the sake of argument.
THIS IS SCUM. Una IS his partner. It's painfully obvious I am astonished others can't see the link. At least Jay agrees Impede is Scum, and both their readlists (they posted two versions) and their progression feel like Town reads/progression, plus -a I said earlier- they're being too confrontational I can hardly see them flipping Scum (only a few select players are that bold as Scum).
I was going to take a dump on this before Jay hardclaimed Vig, but no sense in it now lol
So, if Redflavor isn't promising I'm switching to Impede, because Dino obviously won't let me lynch Una first. I'm good with either Una/Impede (and YES, even before Red whom I'd be reevaluating my read on if I'm still alive by tomorrow).
VOTE: Impede
Yay for OMGUS!
P-edit: I was just thinking to myself the nex vote on Jay would come from Scum. I never saw it to be from Assemble though.Town: 5-1 | Scum: 0-1
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I don't think this is true. But I guess Dino preemptively posting intent does complicate things a bit. I'd like to think that any sensible player would actually wait for hardclaims at L-1+intent, but who knows.In post 453, JaydragonKing wrote:Was I supposed to hardclaim when I was dead? I don't know if you noticed, but I was about six hours from someone voting me up and Dino hammering.
When is it the best time to claim then?
--- Post Edit ---
Look at that, Dino answered for me.Town: 5-1 | Scum: 0-1
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Can you respond to my 438?In post 467, Almost50 wrote: GDI! Did EVERYBODY roll Scum in this game or are you all nuts? Is this a practical joke? Am I on candid camera? Why is everybody acting as scummy as they ever could?
To explain: Both myself and Dino were on Red for ages. You waited till we BOTH switched of him to vote there??? Really??? Only NOW does Red feel Scummy to you???
pedit: Jay, I was not referring to you as the one who would be sensible. I was referring to Math being sensible by giving you time to hardclaim before hammering.Town: 5-1 | Scum: 0-1
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How the f does the binomial theorem apply to this game?In post 469, Mathdino wrote:For anyone interested, Binomial Theorem and probability shenanigans dictate that the chances for the mafia team are:
55.1%: Goon, Goon, JOAT
22.8%: Goon, JOAT, 1-shot Bus Driver
22.0%: Goon, 1-shot Bus DriverTown: 5-1 | Scum: 0-1
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Guys, I'm going to be really honest and say that while normally I love to do setup analysis, this is my first game in a setup this complex and I really have no idea where to even begin, so I'm going to probably excuse myself from setup-related discussions until I actually understand wtf is going on.
Math's post on VCA is superb though. Kinda obvious, but still our best play right now by far. I'll be a lot quieter probably for the rest of the night, but tomorrow I'll see if I can do some digging.
In other news, I think A50 is likely town.Town: 5-1 | Scum: 0-1
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To your point. I tend to answer questions or doubts directed at me, but I find it unproductive to come to my own defense otherwise unless it’s necessary to avoid running up a ML on me.In post 523, Mathdino wrote:Impede's meta is failing to respond to accusations/questions/hypotheses directed at/about him. I'm guessing you're gonna find that he didn't respond. I'm guessing he just doesn't care about discussions about him.
And yeah there's really no point in acting as if we'll later have to lynch Jay. If the moment comes, we will, but in the meantime, acting like he's conftown is the way to go.
Thanks for the Kop analysis. You also mentioned Red offhand but not your actual thoughts on his alignment. It seems like he's everyone's 2nd or 3rd scummiest candidate but his wagon is on the backburner. As per Kop's analysis, his alignment (like Jay's) is gonna be a centerpiece in VCA/associatives going forward IMO. Thoughts?
Also, I posted a somewhat lengthy Kop ISO analysis that got mostly ignored. If you want a slightly scumlensed perspective, it might be worth a look. 361Town: 5-1 | Scum: 0-1
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@Una: IIRC A50’s post where he said he softed hider was before the hypoclaim discussion. That’s what convinced me that it was very unlikely he was making it up. Perhaps he has more exp in this sort of setup and premeditated that sort of play as scum, but idk I don’t really see Scumminess seeping from his alleged soft claim.Town: 5-1 | Scum: 0-1
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This is my meta. It’s not fence sitting, it’s being open to the possibility of being wrong. It’s also being thorough. I take a position on which possibility I think is most likely but leave the alternative open for consideration by othersIn post 542, havingfitz wrote:
lol...a lot of his posts seem to play both sides of the fence. Could be this...but could be that? Maybe...maybe not....kind of sorta but not really.In post 345, Almost50 wrote:You know what? I've just sneezed AND coughed. I bet "now you could see it being Town catching a cold", but it would still comes off as scummy sneezing/coughing to you. Right? Right!
Can we lynch Jay? Would consider Impede. Prefer Jay though.Town: 5-1 | Scum: 0-1
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What in the hell?? I get home from work to three pages of content but an entire page or page and a half is garbage? Screw you guys.
I think we need a flip no matter how you slice it. No sense in even trying to plan D2 unless you’re considering not only all wagon possibilities today, but also all their possible flips. Aka: Let’s not.
My lynchpool is, in order: Assemble, Creature, Red, and I’ll just throw in Kop for good measure as he’s a bit marginal for me.
Although I can share this tidbit now: Just finished a game with Red where his posting style and level of activity was similar. He seems to be trying maybe a tad bit harder here. He was VT.Town: 5-1 | Scum: 0-1
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Why did the weird Jay wagon happen so fast beginning of the game? Is there some inside joke I’m not in on? All the votes looked like joke/RVS votes, but it just seems weird to run up the VC on a single player so fast no?
Math, Una, Fitz, Creature? Care to elaborate?Town: 5-1 | Scum: 0-1
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