Open 709: Masons and Monks (Game Over)
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Mathdino Survivor
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sup i've been subscribed to this topic for my own purposes
jay is town and momo is town
glad to see i'm town
A50 is being A50
beefster has bad reads and idk how alignment indicative that is
okay mod is still putting up the votecount so i'm ISOing people
long time no see mozamis, you seem town
but also this is multiball and townhunting doesn't really work here, so fuck
this archwing wagon is shit. his utter confusion reads town. everyone has to scumhunt in a multiball game so lack of scumhunting is just a bad player tell, not a scumtell
davesaz is mad pinging me but i'm doing another once-over to see if i'm right about something-
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Mathdino Survivor
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Lol not gonna say why I was following this topic
Glad you've gotten less imminently lynchable though
YOU HEAR THAT, GUYS?
JAY IS TOWN AND I WILL NEVER LYNCH THEM-
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Mathdino Survivor
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I'm pretty sure he's not claiming both because that'll just lead us into counterclaim city.
Jay could legit be mafia/wolf with how much he's trying to dodge the NK but at the very least I'm not lynching him.
VOTE: Beefster
Gut vote, gonna go check his ISO to make sure I'm not being stupid.-
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Mathdino Survivor
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There are 2 monks and 2 masons. Multiply probability by 4. It's around 2.3%.
So I'm just gonna say it. davesaz seems to think A50 and mozamis are masons/monks together, which seems ludicrous.
Any reads on davesaz hinting at the mason/monk team? I'm trying to figure out if it's something scum would even do in a multiball.
Edit: gj-
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Mathdino Survivor
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Upon review, momo, I am almost absolutely sure that's not what A50 is doing.
He ruled out a couple associatives early on.
People called him on that. He had to repeatedly explain himself (increasing his mentions of moz and creating the impression of defence).
He said that mozamis hasn't done anything scummy so far (I assume, although I haven't checked, that a bunch of people were calling him scummy).
People called him on THAT TOO. So now he has to defend it AGAIN.
The more you ask someone about their null-townread, the more it's gonna look like they're defending them. mozamis has barely been around enough to scumread him. I actually agree, he hasn't done anything scummy so far.-
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Mathdino Survivor
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Wait okay I checked the opening and it literally doesn't seem to say if the team got to talk at all.
Also even if they did get to speak, mozamis definitely didn't.
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Mathdino Survivor
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Vote Beefster with me. He's voting you, this is a great OMGUS opportunity.-
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Mathdino Survivor
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Honestly I'd be pretty cool with speedlynching in this setup. I have a strong suspicion that the longer the day goes on, the more scumsided it'll eventually get. Masons and monks are gonna get pretty obvious over time. Plus, ideal strategy is for mafia and wolves to shoot town (and not destroy each other). I'd rather not give them more time to figure out the entire setup.
So yeah let's speedlynch Beefster.-
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Mathdino Survivor
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wat
i was literally right in marked for death
you lynched those guys without me
brb doing a lolcase-
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Mathdino Survivor
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shit vote, that's not a scumtell
playing along, haha look at me i'm making jay like me by roleplaying too
whelp the dave thing isn't viable because he's acting like town, lemme just RVS someone who's not even here yetIn post 41, Beefster wrote:UNVOTE: davesaz
Gut town read on dave.
VOTE: Kotoko Utsugi
Because I feel like it.
IIOAIn post 71, Beefster wrote:Your playstyle confuses me. I have never seen such a chaotic player. What an interesting hydra account.
In post 89, Beefster wrote:
This and #84 look a little bit off to me. I don't really follow the logic.In post 83, momo wrote:snip
Meta defense (when there's nothing to defend) is strange. It's almost like he's trying to WIFOM with the gambler's fallacy.
VOTE: momo
Serious vote.
the fuck is this shit voteIn post 90, Beefster wrote:And by gambler's fallacy, that would specifically refer to his "I haven't played scum in a while" priming the feeble human mind to expect him to be scum because humans inherently suck at statistics- triggering those of us who are aware of the gambler's fallacy to second guess ourselves. He's priming WIFOM.
voting momo for not making sense is the most opportunistic thing i've ever seen
random self-meta is not a scumtellIn post 91, Beefster wrote:Or it could mean nothing. We'll see where this goes. I'm more bothered by the meta defense under no pressure thing.
lol he's unsure on momo but he's more interested in getting a lynch than finding scum if he feels like his options are momo and archwingIn post 109, Beefster wrote:I can see good reason for Archwing suspicion, but I'm happy with where my vote is at right now.
momo might be playing dumb. It's hard to say.
sheep me-
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Mathdino Survivor
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Not a reaction test. I'm literally townreading everyone on this wagon.
gg guys solved it
see you d2
(also highkey i'm pretty sure i'm gonna die at night and i'm not SUPER interested in long multiball days so the faster we lynch the faster i can get killed)-
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Mathdino Survivor
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a lolcase on why archwing wagon is shit
"hello i am scum and i am going to tell everyone that i'm jumping on this LAMIST train by opportunistically defending elsa"In post 51, Archwing wrote:
Just to sort of piggy back this, I did a Mini Normal with Elsa, and this is pretty equivalent to their playstyle - They actually tried to create an entire pre-game narrative. It was rather entertaining. Too much roleplay though.In post 49, mozamis wrote:
UNVOTE:In post 32, Almost50 wrote:You're "strange" not scummy!
yeah it's probably a playstyle thing.
oh wait that's right scum don't literally say they're doing something scummy
"hello i am scum and i'm gonna ask you to help convince everyone that A50 is town"In post 55, Archwing wrote:
Where does your town read on Almost come from?In post 54, mozamis wrote: Moz, Almost, jay town.
oh yeah that's right this is actually a good question which has no utility for scum
LIn post 104, Archwing wrote:Hey, phone posting at work atm, so I will provide more tomorrow when I can get to a computer - sorry for noy being active right now, I usually try to be involved more.
I'd probably wanna scum buddy up with Elsa, cause I like their play style and I think we could have some fun with it.. I haven't really played with much of this list, other than 1 game with Elsa and 1 with Moz.
I find the amount of meta reads going on in the first 5 pages crazy. Like I get that we don't have much to go on, but it seems like that is all everyone is doing. Expect more analysis from me in 24 hrs or so.
UNVOTE: my rvs vote.
O
L
"hello i am scum and i'm going to shit all over the first 5 pages by criticising the meta discussion that i myself took part in and then complain about inability to get into the game"
oh that's right, utter hypocrisy and no clear direction is a towntell, not a scumtell
archwing is a shit wagon, gg-
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Mathdino Survivor
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raya, no questionIn post 80, Almost50 wrote:IF YOU WERE TO ROLL SCUM AND WAS GIVEN THE CHOICE TO PICK ONE PARTNER FROM THIS GAME PLAYER LIST, WHO WOULD THAT BE? EXPLAIN.
given the way she plays it'd be super fucking easy for me to just make up a townread on her
she's tough to lynch too, i stalked a couple of her scumgames while metadiving someone else
i'm actually kind of afraid she's scum this game-
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Mathdino Survivor
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i'm mocking people who are scumreading arch
arch does things scum rarely do
gimme more reads momo other than the awesome and correct beefster scumread-
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Mathdino Survivor
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Congratulations, momo.
1. It's been 7 pages, you're not gonna find those associations.
2. 2 players hard defending each other isn't even a scumtell. Chainsaw defending is more likely but still a shit tell.
3. Now you've nulled every instance of that happening going forward because scum knows you're looking for that.
Speedlynching Beefster and canvassing incoming players on thoughts on speedlynching Beefster (and why they're not yet voting Beefster on my awesome lolcase) is a much better way to spend our time imo.
Edit: Jay is correct. momo is more likely to find the masons and monks than mafia/wolves.
I would prefer to NOT give more information on who the masons/monks are.-
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Mathdino Survivor
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In fact, I would go so far as to say that reads lists are anti-town.-
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Mathdino Survivor
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I'm speaking from experience from the last time I played a mason open. The masons were too clear about their reads and started chainsaw defending each other. By D2 the entire mason team was outed (after a mason kill on N1).
A50 makes a good point that I hadn't fully thought through.
That said, being masons/monks with someone makes them half as likely to be scum, and you're probably gonna want them around for later so you can read them in the hood. Plus masons/monks like to breadcrumb each other for some reason. While masons/monks could be scum, it's far more likely that the pairs will implicitly trust each other. This bleeds through into the thread. I know I'm good at PR hunting. I'm trying to defend the town against what scum-me would do (which is draw out the conversation, test a bunch of wagons, and nail the masonries).
So yeah let's not do too many wagons. Until masons/monks die, I would also argue too much VCA is anti-town.-
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Mathdino Survivor
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IN FACT, I'd even suggest flashwagoning Beefstereven if you are masons/monks with him. If he claims mason or monk I'll leave him alive for sure.
So if you're "partners" with Beefster, you should help vote him up and get him closer to the claim, knowing he's gonna claim and get cleared anyway. This muddles the associations.
Or, now that I've said this, don't do that, because that'll muddle the associations even more!
WIFOM city!-
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Mathdino Survivor
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never
also
FoS: Kotoko
@talon: yeah but if i got shot i wouldn't have to scumhunt in multiball so it evens out
plus both scumteams might shoot me if i'm awesome enough-
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Mathdino Survivor
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who the hell is reptar
also assemble is a known lurker and does this shit constantly
also what's wrong with the beef wagon D:-
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Mathdino Survivor
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i'd like to think i have a pretty baller reputation among every player that sheeped me
might be the context you're missing-
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better options available to you both timesIn post 174, Beefster wrote:Why are you calling me out for my RVS votes?-
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Mathdino Survivor
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i mean town almost never wins multiballs when scum DONT kill each other anyway
but it'd be cool to not inadvertently out masons/monks in the midst of arguing
also the "only scum make townblocs" scumtell is literally a scumtell i've only ever used as scum
more often i find that townblocs are made of town tbh
idk if i'm townreading or scumreading dave being wrong, i didn't see post 60 before kotoko brought it up-
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Mathdino Survivor
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and idk
if i were scum in beefster's shoes i don't think i'd do what he did
but beefster is also not me, and OMGUSing here is a great way of making people think "wow that bad vote must be town"
so vote stands for now-
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Mathdino Survivor
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no yeah that's exactly my point
if he went and redirected, that's like the obvious scummy thing to do
doing what he did is, however, the smart-scum move
i just need more content from him before i reevaluate. i'm certainly not reevaluating based on a super lowkey defence-
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Mathdino Survivor
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hahaha
I replaced into the game D2 and immediately wrote up a full reads list with tons of reasons, predicted scum's next move, correctly called a major suspect town, and then started pushing lynches.
Multiball is weird and given the masons/monks, full reads are anti-town. This is a fundamentally different game. I also act different early game.-
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Mathdino Survivor
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monk mafia and mason werewolf is rare
but beside that point
in general, when i'm in a neighbourhood with someone in an ordinary game, i prefer to keep them from being lynched and/or throw null-townreads their way so i can try to sort them using the hood
if, for example, i were a mason
it doesn't benefit me to out my mason buddy or get my mason buddy lynched
i've been following this game since it started, i know what i'm doing lol-
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lol in the other game i came in guns blazing on 2 townies
everyone sheeped me and then i pulled a 180 and nailed scum way after-
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you'll find that my townhunting is significantly more accurate than my scumhunting
and my bet is that if you compare the random reasons i townread people in the two games, you might find a very similar thinking pattern
i often townread the town's biggest suspects and make my own suspects
anyway gimme reads other than me pls-
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#goodpostingIn post 210, Beefster wrote:KU is probably town.-
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Mathdino Survivor
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Don't speculate about this. We could just as easily be monks/masons throwing off scum by analysing early wagons or some shit. "Bussing" if you will. And you know that's not only something I would do, but something I'd allude to doing.In post 213, JaydragonKing wrote:And by teams, I don't inherently mean just scum teams, but Monks and Mason's as well.
I'm comfortable seeing where this wagon goes.-
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Mathdino Survivor
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Yo so all good wagons should have scum on them because multiball.
Raya's vote, while possibly coming from scum, was fine. L-1 is a scummy place to vote because you get blamed for any hammers. I actually think she's town.
I talked about the meta thing before. You're likely to find that I change my playstyle based on the setup more than my alignment. But you can at least get an impression of how I think and how I come to my opinions, which might be useful.
It's definitely town momo.
You're not gonna get more content from Assemble just because you're voting him.-
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Mathdino Survivor
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Yeah he's not correct. Jay/Raya is a weird team. Tbh out of the Beef wagon A50 is my biggest suspect but w/e.
Anyway, we just need to hear from Dunnstral and Talon before we get a hammer right?-
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Mathdino Survivor
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This is the only interaction/mention before A50 called it out.In post 217, Raya36 wrote:Jay's play was confusing me so I did a quick meta dive. Their play seems to be closest to the town play I saw in a few of their games. They seem a lot more relaxed as town whereas as scum they seem to be a little more tryhardy and not as relaxed and fluffy. I'll give a slight town lean but I'm still going to keep an eye on them since I find their play really hard to read.
Yeah, cuz scum opens the day with a mini-case on their own partner.
Nope.-
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Mathdino Survivor
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jay is a dumb dumb and is obvious SK-
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Mathdino Survivor
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jay can't even spell "what" correctly, must be scum-
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Mathdino Survivor
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Alright, I can now understand why you think that.
Personally I metadive people with recent join dates just because it's easier. Jay definitely opened in a significantly weirder way than momo. Hell, the first game I played with Jay, I metadived him first out of anyone (and didn't meta anyone else for a while).
I didn't think Raya was casing Jay. I know what she was doing. Just not something I'd expect scum to do. "Jay does this shit as town" is a very easy conclusion for town to come to on its own.-
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Mathdino Survivor
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oh joy now i have to deal with a momo vs jay tvt fight
my absolute favourite
i really just love having to defend momo and jay of all people
the beefster wagon is great, guys, let's get back to that or find a non-stupid alternative-
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Mathdino Survivor
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Jay, on the other hand, is the king of OMGUS.-
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my case is awesome
tbh he's probably town because almost all my d1 lynches are town (tbh everyone is probably town) but if i'm right i'm gonna be so badass
speedlynch before the masons/monks out themselves let's go guys
declare intent-
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Mathdino Survivor
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oh man was that a hammer-
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Mathdino Survivor
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fuck that was just L-1
okay whatever
BEEFSTER IS AT L-1 GUYS
yo beef are you a mason/monk-
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Mathdino Survivor
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the lesson here is that i'm always right
even when i'm wrong, i'm always right
see you in the graveyard beefster
do you think claiming werewolf will stop them from shooting me-
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Mathdino Survivor
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i have 0 insight
twilight reads are anti-town
reads lists in general are anti-town, i could honestly figure out who the masons and monks are if i really tried (unless they're in the lurkers)
just remember to keep days short and don't let too many wagons run up because then masons/monks will definitely have to claim
also try to lynch only VT claims tbh, scum will take care of masons/monks for you-
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oh yeah and beefster was definitely not bussed lol-
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honestly dude thanks for thisIn post 325, Beefster wrote:I'm fighting a losing battle here and I won't give you the pleasure of a longer day.
VOTE: Beefster
AWOOOOOO!!!
Go Werewolves!
drawing it out would've been the most pro-scum thing you could do
i was really hoping you would self-hammer
had you not self-hammered i might've started questioning myself
anyway you guys are really weird for trying to find mafia on beefster's wagon
there's almost definitely scum off the wagon too, there was nothing about that wagon that indicates BOTH mafia were on it
look off the wagon probs-
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Mathdino Survivor
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oh man the last time i saw you, you mislynched me in my 2nd game due to a "scumslip"In post 356, mozamis wrote:Psycolgocal prfile on Math suggests he has the ego to think he can pull of such an aggressive scum ploy.
back when i had no ego and no confidence to defend myself from shit
you're fuckin right tho about 2017-mathdino-
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Mathdino Survivor
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it was a d1 speedlynch
why the fuck would his partner join in on that
it was a very-easy-to-discredit wagon tbh-
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Mathdino Survivor
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it does benefit werewolves to keep the masons alive-
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Mathdino Survivor
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I HAD A GREAT CASE ON BEEF BRO
DID YOU NOT SEE THE SUPERIORITY OF THE LOLCASE
it was jimmy neutron mafia
i played like shit back then
i have since learned to not "scumslip"-
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Mathdino Survivor
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Okay. Like I said though, I think we're significantly better off not giving reads or pointing to anyone in particular (and especially not defending anyone in particular) because more info for scumteams is anti-town.
If I die though, do some damn good VCA in my honour, town.
Edit: LOOOOOOL-
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Mathdino Survivor
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Mozamis, seriously, you need to stop this.
Trust me, I've played mason games before. There is 100% reason to not out people.
Every previous Masons and Monks game was ruined by too much day.-
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Mathdino Survivor
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i stopped playing mafia for 2 years
i've come back a changed man
now i just flipflop wildly between LOLZ and total seriousness
read up on Polygamist Mafia, Marked for Death, recently completed Jester Nightless, etc-
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Mathdino Survivor
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i always seem town-
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Mathdino Survivor
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ahahahaha holy shitMathdino wrote:Interesting buddying going on here. FoS: fuzzy or mozamis
Also: be very wary of Keybladewielder. He's either a troll or a VI, and he's highly likely to turn into a mafia scapegoat at some point. If there's a cop, I suggest investigating her first night. Please resist the urge to policy lynch him.
this is before i got bloodthirsty for policy lynches nice-
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Mathdino Survivor
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ladies
you'll figure this out tomorrow
do not scumhunt in twilight, it gives scum more info
not only about masons/monks but also in figuring out who they should or should not shoot
seriously just stop talking-
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Mathdino Survivor
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yeah this is a bit long lol
could at least lock the thread
i'm ready to kill someone again!
...tomorrow morning, that is-
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Mathdino Survivor
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Tbh correct move would be to claim Mason to confuse people-
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Mathdino Survivor
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I mean mafia-
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Mathdino Survivor
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Fuck I'm still alive
Why'd A50 get to die-
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Mathdino Survivor
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I was hoping to quick-replace into this game I was watching and get it NK'd so I could go back to spectating (and focus on Team Mafia tomorrow). Was relieved when I rolled down. Was more relieved when Beefster flipped scum (I assume all D1 lynches are on town and generally assume I'm wrong even when I'm right).
But noooooope. Now I gotta recreate D1's magic.
brb finding all the scum-
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