Mini Normal 2016 | Otters vs. Penguins | Endgame

[wavemode]

When you plunged
The light of Tuscany wavered
And swung through the pool
From top to bottom.

I loved your wet head and smashing crawl,
Your fine swimmer's back and shoulders
Surfacing and surfacing again
This year and every year since.

VOTE: Lefty

[wavemode]

you're saying you prefer statements like "im town pls love me" in the LATE game?

[wavemode]

you're saying you prefer statements like "im town pls love me" in the LATE game?

no not really. just play and do town things.

my point was, you're criticizing fluff posts "especially early", but early game when nobody has done anything yet is when i would say fluff posts are fine

and i suppose i was curious whether your comments were simply opportunistic

you didn't mention invisibility until right after someone else said they didn't like his posting

[wavemode]

I actually think Lefty is newb town - scum tend to shy away from addressing their wagons (and potentially inviting direct confrontation) and try to look unbothered about being pushed. I guess Lefty could be over reacting scum but it doesn't feel like that to me.

This actually reminds of a mini where boon vastly overreacted and self-voted his early RVS wagon, then was largely left alone by this very reasoning

[wavemode]

scum!boon*, to clarify

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BBT, Garmr and Lefty are probably town

[wavemode]

t- *cough* teach- *ehem*

TEACHER BANDWAGON IS A GO GO

VOTE: teacher

[wavemode]

wavemode

BlueBloodedToffee

Garmr

Lefty

ByronVilla

Invisibility

Gustavo
Gosrir Elmer Odels
Nosferatu
Performer
Tchill13
Tommy Egan

teacher

[wavemode]

pundits might posit it was wavemode's routine "here's my reads" post after which he will disappear for several days while the gamestate develops

personally though i think it was just a desperate cry for attention

[wavemode]

Wave, can you talk about Byron and Invis being in your town reads please?

On Invis I lean town weakly. I don't think scum!Invis makes 101 with no hesitation or qualification the way he did. Not sure what he would stand to gain from it, unless he'd played with me before and knew that I make observations like this

On Byron I lean town sort of strongly. His posts bleed genuine motives. The disagreement he has with you seems to simply be a clash of playstyles. I hate to be THAT guy, but this smells like TvT.

[wavemode]

Thanks for response Wave, I disagree with reasoning on Invis vote as I could easily see it being qualified as RVS.

I understand that possibility (small as it might be - the wagon was clearly formed for serious reasons), but at the end of the day I'm not claiming it would have gotten him lynched to vote there as scum - I'm just saying he had nothing to *gain*. It would have been a risk for no benefit to vote and offer no dialogue or reasoning there, IMO, as opposed to giving some reasoning and attempting to look like a contributing townie. UNLESS, as I said, it was a 5D chess move to fool the observant. In my experience this flips town 8 times out of 10

I disagree on Byron as well - this feels like scum who don't want to backtrack on a read. Trying to stay consistent/how they think they would act as town.

Oh, come on now, be objective. Does this REALLY read to you like a push for your throat? What does scum gain from 107, making points that he himself admits (several times, in other posts) are not necessarily scummy but anti-town? "scum who don't want to backtrack on a read" ehhh byron was not under any pressure to start taking shots at you. He created this whole stink unprompted. If he's scum here, he must think he can not only get you lynched but also recover from your town flip afterward. But he's not playing to that objective whatsoever. He seems to just really want to know what the fuck is up with your read lol. Usually once I reach the position of "if this person were scum, he'd have to actually just be fucking retarded" I set them aside. Like,

maaaaaayyyybeeee

but we can deal with him later if he is. In my experience this flips town 99 times out of 100

[wavemode]

I have no particular reason to townread Tchill at the moment, nor teacher

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but he would do that for reasons that seem valid, not things that he admits are "personal gripes"

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this just tells me your list lacks reasons.

it does, to a large extent, and i never claimed otherwise. the game is still rather early, and hunting for town is more productive atm than hunting for scum.

[wavemode]

you don't think scum do what BV did? Kind of push someone but not push them enough so they are in the spotlight upon the flip?

yes but what you're still not seeing is that his play and rhetoric does not at all line up with this objective, as I've explained repeatedly

let me get caught up here

[wavemode]

VOTE: performer

reasonably likely this is scum

still reading

[wavemode]

can i report the mod for being biased

these pictures of penguins are cute but the otters all look ridiculous

[wavemode]

for the record they're not ordered merely color coded

BlueBloodedToffee

ByronVilla

Lefty

Gosrir Elmer Odels

Nosferatu

Garmr
Invisibility
Gustavo
Tchill13

Tommy Egan

Performer

teacher

[wavemode]

Also, can someone talk to me about the Performer wagon because I don't get it.

in my case there's too much game narration in 211 for my liking

doesnt show much if any willingness to engage people, just runs with his assumptions. essentially talks about the players in the game like we're just characters on a TV screen. it's a detached mindset that flips scum more often than town

[wavemode]

can you order them?
I'm colorblind

No I can't order them meaningfully but I can group them

Town

----
BlueBloodedToffee
ByronVilla

Lean Town

-------
Lefty
Gosrir Elmer Odels
Nosferatu

Null

--------
Garmr
Invisibility
Gustavo
Tchill13

Lean Scum

-------
Tommy Egan
Performer
teacher

[wavemode]

BBT/performer scumteam yea nay?

[wavemode]

it was a tongue-in-cheek reference to tchill's 200

drawing associations pre-flip is pointless

[wavemode]

and i say that as someone who used to do that a LOT

[wavemode]

BBT with all due respect your argument is retarded

also, performer is not lurking. he's only been gone for 18 hours, he's not going to be replaced. your issue isn't he's a lurker, your issue is that he is low content. but a low-content person isn't magically going to become high content because you carry them into day 2 or 3

[wavemode]

i mean, if someone got off it that would look a lot more suspicious at that point lol. surely you realize this

[wavemode]

With this list can you give any sort of reasoning on your town/scum reads?

I've explained many of them already. Who do you want to know about

Or if there’s anything in particular that’s keeping players in your null group?

The fact that they're null for me...?

[wavemode]

Why do you think I'm scum?

411

also because i'm beginning to PoE the game to a degree

[wavemode]

A wind came up out of the sea,
And said, "O mists, make room for me."

It hailed the ships, and cried, "Sail on,
Ye mariners, the night is gone."

And hurried landward far away,
Crying, "Awake! it is the day."

[wavemode]

Let’s start with the SRs on Tommy/Teacher.

I know tommy is low content but, again, there's still substance to his play that I don't like

his first point is idiotic but ok newbtown could say that

when he says "I don't like this, looks like it could come from a scum!BBT buddying a town!Gus" in response to BBT's "I second Gustavo's question." im already like... er wut? but then also in his own post he goes "This is a good point that you ignored BBT could you answer this question?" so its okay for him to second someone's question but it's not okay for BBT to?

then consider the context of the post, we were already well underway in the game and he goes "This games a weird one, on one hand some people have gotten too deep too early and on the other some are stuck in RVS." pretty pointless statement but also it sort of feels like a pseudo-apology for shallow analysis. when looking over how selectively he is trying to poke and prod for meaningless things to throw shade at people with it sounds like scum who knows he hasn't much to contribute but wants to try to explain it away with "well the game is weird". it sort of goes back to that proverb that the evil man runs when nobody is chasing him. on review of that combined with his general lurkiness it's enough for me to color him pink

[wavemode]

oh i thought i linked it but fyi my above post is referencing 144

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teacher shouldn't be down there any more especially not after reviewing 213, so not sure why i still listed him as a scumlean. hm

[wavemode]

When did Invis go from a town lean back to null? Garmr and TChill haven’t done anything AI yet iyo?

Garmr and Invis dropped to null because i raised the bar somewhat. both were green based on some small thing i noticed that i liked but in the grand scheme of things after rereading the game i decided it was too hasty for me to make that designation. both of them have play in this game that could easily be faked by scum. so, even though if i were guessing, i wouldn't put them in the scumteam, i also wouldn't directly oppose their lynches at this stage

Tchill has done very little this game that I feel particularly good about. you could see a lot of it as just regular play, or you could see it as scum forming alliances and setting up for the long game. only time will tell

[wavemode]

If invis has dropped to null why not join me in lynching him?

Because we still have 11 days and there's other lynches i would prefer to see? obviously discussions about compromise will happen if the deadline starts to wind down

[wavemode]

he's also flopping more than scum typically do

but meh

[wavemode]

you're making me hungry for fried chicken

or perhaps crystal meth

[wavemode]

2.You constantly defend your own appearance even throwing shade at others to defend yourself (post 554).

that's quite a prediction

let's see if it comes true

[wavemode]

I might as well mention that the last observation of 273

I expected scum to rectify the dissonance between the post & the push, & either break-off from the wagon & find another (possibly omgus), or make a more pronounced push on BBT. Neither happened, BV's pretty much town as far as I'm concerned.

is almost an

exact

representation of precisely what i have been saying about BV the whole game, just in different words. and is one significant reason i lean town on GEO

in fact probably the only way I'd see scum!GEO is if i believed he directly plagiarized this specifically to garner a townread from me. at present i see no evidence of that and lots of evidence to the contrary

[wavemode]

can someone who's scumreading nosfer explain to me the reason

[wavemode]

the goal seems to be a 50 page day 1 so here's my contribution

O Thou dread PenguinPower, who reign'st above,
I know thou wilt me hear,
When for this scene of peace and love,
I make this prayer sincere.

The hoary Mod-the mortal stroke,
Long, long be pleas'd to spare;
To bless this little filial flock,
And show what good men are.

Byron, who his lovely offspring eyes
With tender hopes and fears,
O bless him with a mother's joys,
But spare a mother's tears!

Their hope, their stay, their darling BBT.
In manhood's dawning blush,
Bless him, Thou God of love and truth,
Up to a parent's wish.

The beauteous, seraph Lefty-band-
With earnest tears I pray-
Thou know'st the snares on ev'ry hand,
Guide Thou their steps alway.

When, soon or late, they reach that coast,
O'er Life's rough ocean driven,
May they rejoice, no wand'rer lost,
A family in Heaven!

[wavemode]

oh damn pack it up boys, we were wrong on this one

he assured us

[wavemode]

Who is planning on hammering invis

[wavemode]

If you're basing your intent on him claiming town ascetic, I should point out that literally right before taking a break from the site I completed a game with a Town Ascetic. He had no other power

[wavemode]

Nero Cain was a Town Ascetic in Large Normal 206 iirc

[wavemode]

Yes it's the kind of role normal reviewers recommend to add to a setup to weaken the town (since they can't be cleared by investigatives)

Normal reviewers like firebringer

Who reviewed both this setup and that one...

I even hate bringing up this kind of thing though because it implies I'm basing my unwillingness to lynch invis on this, when I'm really not. It could still just be a lucky fakeclaim. My point is though that you shouldn't intent to hammer simply because you think this role is implausible. It isn't.

[wavemode]

Because I didn't want to before and a wagon quickly forming up on him doesn't make me feel any better about it?

Like, if I were ever going to vote invis in this game it would have been of my own free will as I continue ue to evaluate his play, not at the tail end of a flash wagon

[wavemode]

Idc about that. That's not what I asked.

You didn't want to before. Why? What has solidified over time that's keeping you from doing it now?

There's been no point in this game where I wanted invisible dead. I was Town leaning on him for a while, then I colored him gray to remain cautious but I still didn't think he was scum at that point - there were just a lot of other people I considered townier than him

Is there some particular reason I SHOULD want invis lynched at this moment? Because everything has to be so black or white for you? When we're not even close to deadline? If this is you "trying a different playstyle" from our last 2 games together I suggest you flip back. If this is just scum you, well, you won't last long.

[wavemode]

Now who's deathtunneling

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gus replacing out is NAI, he also /outed of the queue to deal with family issues

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VOTE: teacher

most of his reasoning in 213 and 500 ranges from reachy to completely illogical

i gave it a pass for the reason that he could just be inexperienced but i'm not really willing to do that anymore after reading teacher's past town games

nail in the coffin that pushes him further down for me is him being one of three people who avoided the invis wagon and me leaning town on the other two

[wavemode]

nail in the coffin that pushes him further down for me is him being one of three people who avoided the invis wagon and me leaning town on the other two

Good posting, but...

There were 4 people who avoided the Invis wagon - Nos, teacher, Lefty and Byron. Can you just clarify who you're talking about in relation to your reads?

as others have mentioned, BV didn't avoid being on the wagon, he hopped off it once it was at L-1

[wavemode]

as others have mentioned, BV didn't avoid being on the wagon, he hopped off it once it was at L-1

With super bad reasoning. That made no sense.

you're getting the perspective mixed up. i'm speaking from the perspective that there is a pool of three players who, potentially, are scum who thought, "my buddy is on this wagon, i'd rather not vote with him". BV is not one of those people

[wavemode]

as others have mentioned, BV didn't avoid being on the wagon, he hopped off it once it was at L-1

With super bad reasoning. That made no sense.

you're getting the perspective mixed up. i'm speaking from the perspective that there is a pool of three players who, potentially, are scum who thought, "my buddy is on this wagon, i'd rather not vote with him". BV is not one of those people

to clarify, i townread BV for other reasons, but those have nothing to do with my "nail in the coffin" comment which you asked about

[wavemode]

i will have to ask some friends after the game is over but i feel like to an experienced eye byron's play this game should be very obviously town. it even lines up with his town meta, if you care about that sort of thing

[wavemode]

Wave, why do you tr byron for "other reasons?"

Wave, can you talk about Byron and Invis being in your town reads please?

<snip>

On Byron I lean town sort of strongly. His posts bleed genuine motives. The disagreement he has with you seems to simply be a clash of playstyles. I hate to be THAT guy, but this smells like TvT.

<snip>

I disagree on Byron as well - this feels like scum who don't want to backtrack on a read. Trying to stay consistent/how they think they would act as town.

Oh, come on now, be objective. Does this REALLY read to you like a push for your throat? What does scum gain from 107, making points that he himself admits (several times, in other posts) are not necessarily scummy but anti-town? "scum who don't want to backtrack on a read" ehhh byron was not under any pressure to start taking shots at you. He created this whole stink unprompted. If he's scum here, he must think he can not only get you lynched but also recover from your town flip afterward. But he's not playing to that objective whatsoever. He seems to just really want to know what the fuck is up with your read lol. Usually once I reach the position of "if this person were scum, he'd have to actually just be fucking retarded" I set them aside. Like,

maaaaaayyyybeeee

but we can deal with him later if he is. In my experience this flips town 99 times out of 100

I might as well mention that the last observation of 273

I expected scum to rectify the dissonance between the post & the push, & either break-off from the wagon & find another (possibly omgus), or make a more pronounced push on BBT. Neither happened, BV's pretty much town as far as I'm concerned.

is almost an

exact

representation of precisely what i have been saying about BV the whole game, just in different words. and is one significant reason i lean town on GEO

in fact probably the only way I'd see scum!GEO is if i believed he directly plagiarized this specifically to garner a townread from me. at present i see no evidence of that and lots of evidence to the contrary

[wavemode]

perf what is it you asked me? i probably deemed it irrelevant by the time i got around to seeing it

[wavemode]

why does everyone always expect to die what makes you so special

[wavemode]

IM PROLLY DEAD TONIGHT GUYS OR ELSE SCUM BETTER WATCH THE FUCK OUT IM TELLIN YALL

IM A DEAD MAN WALKING

sorry just so many people have said that they expect to die in this game and others i've read and played in and i always find it hilarious

[wavemode]

@wave I had a question of why you thought chill and I were scum. Also, 667

wait so what do you mean i was dodging questions...? I remember detailing for you specifically why i had you as scum, and why tchill was where he was in my reads list

[wavemode]

i thought multiball/SK wasn't allowed in minis anymore

[wavemode]

the only scenario where claiming today makes sense is if you're a doc and the person you saved is at L-1 and someone has declared intent to hammer

[wavemode]

performer i have a hard time taking your constant questions seriously when you're clearly not reading the game

[wavemode]

first you say i ignored a question about my read on you, meanwhile i gave a detailed analysis of why i was leaning scum on you

you say i didn't explain about tchill but i did, you just didn't read it

you say i never elaborated on garmr but i did, you just didn't read it

like literally 99% of what you ask me is stuff that has already an answer if you actually read the thread

meanwhile you shade me for "dodging questions". YOU'RE DODGING INFORMATION

[wavemode]

you should read my 527

and before you ask "so any updates? any updates wave any updates? have your reads changed have your reads changed wave any updates" if my reads change i will SAY SO

[wavemode]

Byron is being town read solely on his unvote

false. are you even reading my posts? or anyone else's this whole game w.r.t. byron?

[wavemode]

I do find it interesting, though, that you seem to agree with me that there were two scum on the wagon. I have named my candidates. Who are yours?

er, i don't necessarily agree with that. what evidence do i have of that?

in fact, you being scum is even more likely if only 1 scum was on the wagon, and basically guaranteed if 0 were on it. just saying

[wavemode]

er, that i townlean on someone does not mean they are definitely town...

[wavemode]

VOTE: wavemode

idk i voted them to see what they'd do but they didn't really care?

i thought this was sort of towny

[wavemode]

can someone explain to me how nos is a better lynch than teacher or tommy at present

even if we lynch on wagon, in what universe is nos scummier than tommy egan this game

[wavemode]

This is a bad, bad post.

how

[wavemode]

lol. ok. couple of problems

first, if you actually read the post in question, you'd see that I'm not, in fact, using PoE to scumread teacher. Poe simply pushes him further down, i.e. I'm using PoE to vote him rather than, say, tommy

second, if you actually read my iso, I specifically said I'm fine with lynching on wagon but I'd want it to be Egan. Why would my wiggle room be to go after nos or lefty?

third, If you actually read the conversation you'd see that all I'm saying in general is that I'm not certain that 2 scum were on the invis wagon. I'm not making a statement about how I feel about lefty or nos at all

get better at reading maybe?

fourth, and maybe this is a post-game discussion to be had, but what is wrong with reevaluating your reads after flips? Sometimes your day 1 reads are wrong, shocker! I'd be more suspicious of someone never reevaluating the game properly. sorry but you sound like the 2-week-olds I get in newbie games. This mindset mafiascum players seem to have that it's scummy to go after people you used to townread, sort of needs to die

[wavemode]

garmr's town, nos is town, vote teacher for fun and profit

[wavemode]

I mean, you're using PoE to vote teacher. Whatever way you want to word it, you're using your town leans in order to PoE and vote someone else. But you don't feel confident enough to call them town. That's bullshit. You're not committing to the reads to allow an easy reversal (which I will speak more of in a moment).

My wiggle room comment was very clearly aimed at how you have PoE'd the people off the wagon - I said nothing about people on the wagon. You leave wiggle room to vote someone else off the wagon if teacher flips town (which seems unlikely but is still possible). You have taken that comment out of context and applied it to a different situation. Naughty, naughty.

Like, you try to insult my reading ability when the only thing I commented on was you being non-committal with your town reads. You have gone off on a tangent and started talking about things I wasn't even talking about. There is nothing wrong with reevaluating reads AFTER flips, but what you're doing is being non-committal on reads BEFORE flips so that AFTER flips you can switch your reads around more easily. For example, if I wanted to reverse my Nos (lean) town read, it would be very easy to do so as I have not committed to that read as strongly as I have to say Garmr or NM (Lefty). Those two reads would be much harder for me to backtrack on without gaining significant attention.

What you're doing is the former. You town leaned two people to Poe vote a third but then refrained from actually calling them town. That's scummy.

i mean, all im reading is a lot of text that essentially says "yes im ignoring the context of what you said, because i'd rather focus on it out of context." mehhh i've officially lost interest in this debate. you can think what you want about me

[wavemode]

because half the town are somehow convinced that nosfer or garmr are ever good lynches here

also, VOTE: tommy

[wavemode]

town

[wavemode]

why is this town so eager to lose

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nos is town

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garmr's case against nos establishes why scum might want to do certain things nos has done, but not how they

necessarily

come from scum and not town. i think nos's responses to him consistently point out this flaw and also are how i'd expect town to react in his situation

[wavemode]

i dont really think about things like that

but at face value i'd say a pretty even balance

though i'm sure you disagree

[wavemode]

Seriously, WTF?!. In what world do two scum vote the same slot sequentially together, and then stay together for 500+ posts, much less all three scum vote together? Were you drunk when you typed this?

this happens all the time dude...

[wavemode]

2. 118 by Wavemode: A reads list this early? Not sure what to make of that...

(The above reads are based on those first 5 pages and those first 5 pages only.)

something something hypocrisy

[wavemode]

VOTE: performer he's scumclaiming

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how am i the only one seeing that performer is scumclaiming

[wavemode]

why does everyone keep saying im lurking. i was gone for a bit to play a game of dota lol

[wavemode]

UNVOTE:

[wavemode]

for those who seem to have a weak grasp of the gamestate

there are 10 people alive, not 8

of those, there are likely 7 town and 3 scum

a mislynch and a nightkill would take that to 5 town and 3 scum

[wavemode]

1491 - defending a townread isn't scummy. yawn
1498 - not caring about one naked vote isn't scummy. double yawn

[wavemode]

1491 - defending a townread isn't scummy. yawn
1498 - not caring about one naked vote isn't scummy. double yawn

Defending actions as "not scummy" is gross fyi.

Attacking actions that aren't scummy is gross fyi.

[wavemode]

performer, ari, not_mafia i would put as hard town at this point

[wavemode]

i still think geo and nos are town

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Dude how is bbt town here??? @Wave

what is this in response to

[wavemode]

VOTE: teacher

[wavemode]

garmr's town, nos is town, vote teacher for fun and profit

[wavemode]

Dude how is bbt town here??? @Wave

what is this in response to

Im not sure if I should simply laugh at the unbelievable reply here or quit asking you.

In a game long ago, scum used a strategy like this in when replying to my inquiring.

??? I'm even more confused now than when I asked you the first time. what is this in response to? I haven't said bbt is town since day 1 I think? There certainly are reasons to townread him, I'm not denying that. But there's plenty of other people whom I townread a lot more at this point

[wavemode]

OK buddy. Why is teacher scum and what do they get out of town clearing garmr?

That's what you're using to say teacher is conftown? I could just as easily argue that he knew the scumteam's nightkill was on garmr because he was there

[wavemode]

So you don't agree with teachers theory?

Re-read what I said. All I'm saying is that even assuming garmr was the kill target, the fact that teacher pointed it out does not make him conftown

[wavemode]

Are you caught up garmr?

BlueBloodedToffee

-Scum read by performer

Garmr

Confirmed not with Performer

Aristophanes

-Replaced from Gustavo who hard pushed Performer

Gosrir Elmer Odels

-Voted by Performer

Nosferatu

-Was voted by performer

Performer

-is performer

teacher

-scum read performer

wavemode

Voted performer

Not_Mafia

-was Voting performer

Tchill13

- Was voting performer.

Yeah but there's not one person who I can actually see being his mason buddy everyone has a reason we can rule them off.

you're naive, but im glad you posted this since we shouldn't be trying to out the mason in any case

[wavemode]

claiming today is valid if the masons haven't crumbed each other at all, i suppose

but that's horrible mason play

[wavemode]

in fact it's still not valid since they can still crumb it today. it's not even mylo or lylo yet

[wavemode]

Right. so they can still crumb today and use the crumb tomorrow, assuming their partner dies, to prove their claim

[wavemode]

I don't understand.

If there's no Mason claim in lylo and performer is killed I'm the night phase scum can cc with absolutely nobody to argue other than the actual Mason.

No, you don't understand. Performer can leave a secret message in his posts TODAY saying who his partner is, and tell his partner about the message in their private thread, so that if he dies that person can use it as proof TOMORROW that they are a mason. In fact THIS SHOULD HAVE BEEN DONE FROM DAY ONE as that is proper mason play. Am I misspeaking somewhere or are you being intentionally oblivious?

[wavemode]

I'm saying that leaving the door open for scum to make a play doesn't make sense here from a town perspective.

Why not go ahead with a mass claim and make scum lock in claims?

I understand the thought process of what you're wanting.

I DO NOT understand how town benefits from that more than scum.

If someone has useful results, by all means they should claim them

If we are about to lynch a mason, by all means they should claim

If on the other hand we're just going ahead with normal play, what do we get from a massclaim, even a partial one where just the mason team claims, besides giving the scumteam a roadmap of who to shoot?

It's exactly like what I said at the start of day 2 - if someone is a doctor and prevented the nightkill, the only reason they should claim is if the person they protected IS ABOUT TO BE LYNCHED. If they aren't, you're just outing your role and it gains us nothing

[wavemode]

I'm talking about the beginning of day 2. At that point we figured it was possible that we had a doctor. Now we know that it was probably a jailkeep instead that prevented the nightkill

[wavemode]

I think it's highly overvalued, but we'll agree to disagree

[wavemode]

In the spirit of full disclosure I will say

I feel like I HAVE to be townreading someone right now who is actually scum

There actually aren't that many possible 3-man teams right now

Most of my preferred ones don't even make any sense

[wavemode]

Is the team actually {Nos, teacher, Tchill} ?

[wavemode]

{Performer, Not_Mafia, Garmr, Ari, wavemode} - hard town. i'm willing to bet the game on it
{Nosferatu, GEO, Tchill, BBT, teacher} - remainders. there are reasons to townread a few of them but they're all possibilities

{Nosferatu, GEO, Tchill} - I rate this team 6/10 ?

Spoiler: analysis

minimal if any early day 1 interaction or mentions, though there is some GEO interaction
457 - Tchill drawing gosrir-BV associative without ever previously mentioning gosrir
465 - for Tchill, Nos has slid back into being "probably town"
468 - weird-sounding apology for something someone else said. buddying teacher?
478 - illogical observation by Tchill that mainly serves to quell the town's doubt
484 - Nos follows up on the observation 18 minutes afterward. he had previously not posted anything for almost 4 hours. he still does not mention or engage Tchill
586 - is distance between Nos and GEO, i will admit
655 - one gamestate-relevant interaction from Nos to Tchill. though Tchill does not continue the discussion
769 - GEO doesn't know whether he wants to hammer or not...
878 - this is purely my personal bias but in my experience scum don't like replacements, explaining this comment from Tchill. but, meh, this is a very minor point
day 2 has more interactions, though not a ton
978 - the fluidity with which tchill shifts me around his reads list is interesting, though i only mention this because of how extreme it's been this game. this kind of analysis is always going to be biased, so when scumhunting i try not to care TOO much who's town- and scum-reading me
997 - Tchill makes it a point to draw associatives between Nos and garmr
1022 - Tchill decides to be the fourth Nos vote. meh
1052 - Tchill hops of Nos after the heat has faded
1112 - GEO asking Nos to please be more pro-town
1130 - Tchill returns his vote to Nos

hey Tchill have you ever played with TywinL. might be a fun father-son thing

1204 - is actually a pretty good point. but i now know both players are 99% town sooo
1229 - Tchill adjusts to townreading GEO. fitting, since he now wants to lynch Nos

it's only fair to mention that at this point i defended Nos since i do like his ISO. it seems to have had some effect on dissipating his wagon

1271 - Tchill is questioning Ircher's Nos vote, while he himself is still voting Now. possibly because after i defended Nos, Tchill's plan changed to not bussing him
1289 - "In what world do scum do exactly what you expect them to do?" is a weird comment from Tchill, not becuase it's wrong, but because it lines up with part of why I'm against a massclaim. yet a day after saying this, Tchill advocates a massclaim partly because he thinks it allows us to predict what the scumteam will do.
1329 - Tchill slides off Nos and onto Tommy
1339 - If I ever make an alt I'm going to name it DeepWolf

{Nosferatu, GEO, BBT} - 2/10

Spoiler: analysis

77, 276, 285, 287, 387, 392, 394, 397, 399, 446, 452, 563, 586
and that's just the start of it
heavy amounts of discussion, suspicion, and voting that muddies the water in a way that i'm not comfortable with to call this a team

{Nosferatu, GEO, teacher} - 3/10

Spoiler: analysis

213 - teacher places the other two in the bottom of his reads but doesn't vote either
222, 273, 504, 928 heavily weaken this as a team for me, interaction wise
I'll come back to this and finish it if it becomes relevant, but for now it's a no

{Nosferatu, Tchill, BBT} - 2/10

Spoiler: analysis

61 - a muddying interaction between BBT and Tchill. meh
374 - mentioning this because i forgot about it before but this post from Tchill sounds manufactured to me, tonally
nixing this team at this point. as the day goes on thesee three get into a lot more muddying back-and-forths. in fact after reading the early game a few times now i will just say in general that Nos and BBT are not scum partners, at all. and teacher/BBT feels very off

{Nosferatu, BBT, teacher} - skipping
{Tchill, BBT, teacher} - skipping
{GEO, BBT, teacher} - skipping

{Nosferatu, Tchill, teacher} - 7/10

Spoiler: analysis

my old nos/tchill notes still apply, so i won't repeat them
88 - this is where Tchill starts the teacher wagon. he doesn't really continue to push or pressure teacher at all though
305 - Tchill does mention he's surprised Nos doesn't have teacher in his lynchpool, yet Tchill himself has stopped pushing or engaging teacher soooo...
468 - it's worth noting that under the assumption that Tchill and teacher are partners, this post reads completely differently from how i interpreted it in the NS-GEO-Tchill section
overall the interaction between these three tapers off to nil as day 1 comes to a close. teacher in particular doesn't seem very interested in tchill or nos, and tchill almost entirely ignores teacher even though he has him as a scumread

1052 - Tchill goes from voting Nos to voting teacher. bleh
1166 - did i ever make a post about 1166? I don't remember, but i do at the very least remember contending with teacher that his wagon analyses make way too many ridiculous assumptions. this post is the epitome of that
1212 - Tchill decides he likes teacher for town
1237 - Tchiill changes his mind and puts teacher at null (yes, i read his reasoning for doing this. but it's still a worthwhile observation)

moving into the current day, Tchill declares teacher conftown because of his defense of Garmr? which is not only illogical, as i've pointed out, but also suggests he is 100% sure Garmr is town? which is weird considering how unsure he seems to be about performer being town. theoretically there is a lot more opening for garmr to be scum than there is for performer to be, given the current gamestate

{GEO, Tchill, teacher} - 3/10

Spoiler: analysis

not going to repeat my previous tchill/teacher points, nor my tchill/geo ones
273 - GEO votes and pressures teacher. bleh
317 - gosrir/teacher are in tchill's favorite lynchpool. bleh
405 - GEO "Can someone explain to me why Performer is better to lynch than Teacher?" bleh i already hate this as a team
928 - fuck it I'm moving on

{GEO, Tchill, BBT} - 3/10

Spoiler: analysis

i hate this as a taem because of the Tchill/BBT pairing. 166 and 176 are particularly bleh. moving on

occam's razor says Nos, Tchill, teacher makes the most sense and Nos, GEO, Tchill is a possibility. either way I want to say the one i'm townreading who isn't town is Nos

[wavemode]

the disclaimer i would offer is that i'm purely evaluating whether teams are likely or not, so the analyses operate entirely under the assumption that the three people in question are scum together. sorry if the comments sound highly prejudicial

[wavemode]

either way i want to VOTE: Tchill. read my analysis if you want to know why

[wavemode]

GET A REFUND ON YOUR TUITION BILLS LMAOOO REMEMBER WHEN YOU SAID THAT

the math of combinations says you would always be in 6/10 of them fyi

[wavemode]

VT

[wavemode]

OBVIOUSLY

like, perf pretty much ignored suspicion of Lefty/NM the whole game

[wavemode]

Gosrir Elmer Odels, Town Odd-Night Cop, killed Night 3.

btw, GEO's first post of day 2 was

First things first, the most important new thing I've got right now, is that my townread on wavemode has been solidified. His comments from around the Invis wagon were definitely coming from a genuine PoV.

in case anyone was wondering

[wavemode]

VOTE: teacher, in any case

[wavemode]

nos what is your full role

[wavemode]

UNVOTE:

[wavemode]

Why tf hasn't this massclaim made it's round yet. teacher? Ari?

[wavemode]

I don't doubt the roleclaim from Nos is legit

I don't understand. You believe Nos is indeed a tracker? Based on what?

[wavemode]

...okay...

[wavemode]

Nosferatu - X-Shot Tracker

Garmr - VT

Performer - Mason

Aristophanes - VT

wavemode - VT

Not_Mafia - Mason

BlueBloodedToffee - VT
teacher - VT

Invisibility - Ascetic

Tommy Egan - VT

Ircher - Jailkeeper

Tchill13 - VT

GEO - Odd-Night Cop

[wavemode]

lmao you're talking about my coloring as though it's mechanical

it's based on common sense

[wavemode]

you're the last person i'd expect to be arguing that the masons are scum. you're essentially arguing that the town only has Odd-night cop and JK

[wavemode]

You misunderstand. I didn't realize we has masons, but that's awesome. They often replace tosn investigatives and this strengthens my belief that Nos is Scum Invest. I am merely saying they should not be coloured in!

Also they usually replace Cop specifically so Oddnight Cop and Masons is odd.

no, YOU misunderstand. for you, ari, to consider a scenario where the masons are scum and nos is also scum, you are NECESSARILY considering a scenario where town's only power is odd-night cop and jailkeeper, minus the negative utility of an ascetic who can't be protected or investigated. in your opinion is that balanced?

[wavemode]

Nos, who do you believe is the scumteam

[wavemode]

You misunderstand. I didn't realize we has masons, but that's awesome. They often replace tosn investigatives and this strengthens my belief that Nos is Scum Invest. I am merely saying they should not be coloured in!

Also they usually replace Cop specifically so Oddnight Cop and Masons is odd.

no, YOU misunderstand. for you, ari, to consider a scenario where the masons are scum and nos is also scum, you are NECESSARILY considering a scenario where town's only power is odd-night cop and jailkeeper, minus the negative utility of an ascetic who can't be protected or investigated. in your opinion is that balanced?

If scum ~only~ have a tracker they are really underpowered, so it's not horribly unbalanced. Ascetic with no other role is underpowered. Odd night cop is mid-low power, and JK is the only protective and one which can lead to wine at that!

It's not horribly unbalanced, no.

However, I am not currently arguing the Masons are scum. I am mentioning the possibility that one is so long as neither has flipped. No flipped mason means no confirmed masons. Simple as that.

If the masons are legit scum have more hidden power we don't know about. I can guarantee that.

Scum Tracker is really strong btw

but I'm finished with this discussion in any case

[wavemode]

I'm willing to put my foot down on bbt being town. I'd say it's necessarily a nos/Ari/teacher team

VOTE: Nos

[wavemode]

I don't think teacher and bbt are ever partners here. Review that carefully

Ari's play, even just today, is scummy for not recognizing I'm conftown, throwing suspicion at the masons and also tacitly assuming nos is a tracker even though there is no evidence of that

[wavemode]

If you look at nos's preferred scumteam you will see even he recognizes the pairing is implausible. Those two aren't his partners together, or else why not just list them together and leave garmr out of it

[wavemode]

I knew for a fact you were scum after that, but I was still impressed at the sheer balls of it

[wavemode]

don't beat yourself up