Mini Normal 2033: Dolphins (Game Over)

[Toranaga]

[Toranaga]

I don't really know anyone other than gamma and I can't read gamma

[Toranaga]

what is up saudade?

you know I had a hydra account with someone on MU that was called saudade too

it's a great word isn't it

[Toranaga]

Welcome Toranga.

@doughboy that last post has me thinking that Gamma's right. Ezekel seems happy to move on but you're baiting him as gamma said.

are you virtuoso?

[Toranaga]

PEdit: hai Tor, pls be active

depends on if the game is fun or not tbh

30 pages and still d1 means you already talked too much and derailed yourselves onto stupid arguments that lead nowhere and are like 80% of the time tvt

and I didn't even read anything

so let's get someone lynched, shall we?

who's active lurking? let's make a list of those fellas and kill inside of it

[Toranaga]

ok

I just skimmed dva and I didn't mind their posts. lemme check tony hawk

[Toranaga]

I don't really know anyone other than gamma and I can't read gamma

Wait what

you think I can read you? I scum read you every single game we were both town in, even if momentarily so.

[Toranaga]

prohawk's ISO: the only relatively towny thing he did was apparently check for saudade's meta and ended up townreading him. other posts are descriptive and he seems pretty disengaged. I'm fine with the lynch. I'm leaning more scum on hawk than dva and I don't like the way hawk pushed dva as probably scum without explaining his lean to any detail.

[Toranaga]

I was in assassin's creed yeah, it was the second game we played together and I was scumreading you there for a good part of it. I was even fine when you got lol lynched before you could shoot, cause you were never around and it was stalling the game.

waifu wars I'm pretty sure I cleared you, yeah.

heroes wanted it was the same deal of half townreading, half wolfreading everything you did.

you're definitely not a slot I can easily read.

[Toranaga]

Ok. Mine was serious though. I honestly think it's likely that Scioness saw a red role PM and replaced out in the pre-game, and I feel like the others who also voted that slot feel the same way as I do.

how much do we like this reasoning? anyone else that knows scioness thinks this is >rand scum slot just because of the replace out? the one thing I like about dva is her apparent disinterest in pushing anything, as it points to lack of agenda, but that's not necessarily a towny thing and it's player dependant.

[Toranaga]

Hey y'all i'm a day late soz, good to be back playing mafia Don't see any familiar names tho if I played with u before and don't recognize you immediately i'm sorry haha.

Aight game stuff. Skimmed through and hopefully things pick up.

Alchemist seems a little controlling but I think it's unavoidable with inactivity. I've never played with Scioness and don't usually care about meta, so eh. Possible but I'd rather vote based on player behavior and not their proxy that never posted.

Saudade is... strange. VOTE: Saudade 2irony4me. Hasn't really chimed in even when prompted, quadruple posting, essentially gave a non-answer with that short story collection. Can't tell if scummy or just annoying. Guess we'll find out what the price is for voting for him second?

Leaning town on Doughboy.

Nothing else pops out at me this early.

Ok. Mine was serious though. I honestly think it's likely that Scioness saw a red role PM and replaced out in the pre-game, and I feel like the others who also voted that slot feel the same way as I do.

por que roll of the eyes?

towny

I agree saudade started off and overreacted weirdly to alchemist's theory that dva is scum because she replaced into scum!scioness slot. alchemist and guerrilla are easy townreads early on.

[Toranaga]

Just to clarify, when I say them I mean voting going on for dis/Db etc and that whole group.

Dva votes and ppl bringing up the other person drops out of red roles, I don’t like and I read as scummy. Couldn’t tell if they are serious or not.

how is it scummy if they're serious about it? why would you even suggest they're not being serious about it? alchemist seems pretty serious to me. if a player has a history of replacing out as scum and they replace out before the game even starts, what does that tell you? why are you going after the people who are reading into it, instead of trying to establish if the meta read is true in the first place?

[Toranaga]

I'm not a fan of how he said "I read it as scummy". Like, clearly the origin of his 'suspicion' isn't a read, it's Alchemist's meta guess.

Feels like a good place to nest my vote rn VOTE: Ezekiel but I still wanna hear something serious from Saudade.

this mirrors my thoughts and furthers my townread on guerilla.

[Toranaga]

I don’t read them as scummy either figure both sides are just kicking the tires.

Are you guys serious about the Dva thing in regards to the replacement? Is so that is scummy to me.

*shrug*

I think the idea in itself that you are presenting is not scum-like
but the way you presented it.. oof! you deserve a few votes on you

"deserves a few votes", but is he scummy? is he towny? you seem to be grilling his presentation without making an actual stance on ezekel here.

[Toranaga]

VOTE: GuerillaWoo
I think he’s trying to hard to justify his Saudade push to everyone
Also I don’t see you having questioned everyone very much

is any of this scummy of guerilla though? who was questioning players harder than guerilla at this point?

[Toranaga]

Feels like town v town to me.

I feel the same.

Ezekel ISO in the previous game shows that he does withhold his vote.

Doughboy has been doing some ballsy stuff this game if he’s scum, and the last game shows a big back and forth between him and Ezekel and that old interaction has probably painted Doughboy’s memory of him especially considering Doughboy had never mentioned Ezekel in that game until shit went down.

I'm starting to lean that way as well. I find ezekel a little too nitpicky on his db push to be scum doing it, and db just feels natural throughout.

saudade and gamma worry me the most.

[Toranaga]

Doughboy seems townie.

VOTE: Saudade

like this

[Toranaga]

@LTVNGambit Now that you pointed it out, it is odd that Guerilla hoped off that Suade train, especially with the post saying whether Suad is town or not, they have no problem with them Suade being lynched.

it's really not, it's just a pro-town unvote when the moment calls for it. guerilla could stay on that wagon hiding behind a grudge if he wanted to, and nobody would bat an eye at that. he unvoted cause he wants to avoid the very short gameday. guerilla is almost definitely town regardless of saudade's alignment.

[Toranaga]

Alright time to stop being a delicious lynch bait

whats his name angry emotional guy - Reacted very harshly and emotionally to my attitude and stance, unvoted when I was at L-1 or L-2 or whatever, town.
Doughnut - Can't comment we've a history together and if my thought process is right the scum on my wagon wouldn't be this vocal.

EzekelRAGE can be town for now.

VOTE: Saudade

Content please.

this is scum, opportunistic jump on the wagon.

Feels like town v town to me.

informed scum content, scumslip =]


VOTE: Tommy

if the whole doughnut ezkielrage and the angry guy tunnelling guy could unvote because you guys are playing into a bad position

and this is a fantastic post

[Toranaga]

So.... theres a Doughboy vs Ezekiel based on past history... and then Saudade vs Guerilla for a testosterone contest? Then Saudade who claimed to self-bait himself to analyze his wagon for scum? And a bit of commentary inbetween... Did I miss anything?

Curious as to why Saudade didn't include the L-1 vote from DVa in his analysis of scum... Considering it was the "scummiest" vote that I saw...?

scum description posting 101

[Toranaga]

Dva's just.. too simple to be a scum vote

[Toranaga]

thread gets impossibly ridiculous on page 11

[Toranaga]

Saudade is a good Lynch.

He’s most likely scum here since he isn’t trying to find scum.

This is going to a long game
Not contributing doesn’t mean he’s scum ffs

don't like this

agreed

[Toranaga]

Saudade still good wagon

dva has the right ideas on the game here. might be scum, but I'm not lynching it this gameday.

saudade made some good posts but the way he approached ezekel feels like he knows ezekel is town getting tunneled, in that post he says he "deserves" some votes.

he is right that guerilla is town

I'm townreading tommy's re-entrance so I think saudade is 0/2 in his scumreads and is disappointingly not as good at mafia as he thinks he is, unless he is scum which remains a very solid possibility.

[Toranaga]

Spoiler:

Lets play a game,
First to vote me gets lynched today.

I am the best.

Because I'm good at this game

by the gods am I really that good
is it Tommy and Gambit

Posts like these make me think Saudade is Town. It’s a lot of attention-attracting bravado if he’s scum. What would scum him D2 if he was wrong on someone? Keep forcing that confidence after destroying his credibility? Also considering he hasn’t moved to the Guerill wagon to try and push a counterwagon to his own, I’m sure he’s Town.

ok but then guerilla acts very similarly and you think he is scum for it.

saudade's bravado isn't as hard as you think it is. once you get into the mindset of saying the type of stuff he is saying, you easily do it in both alignments cause you're just that confident you'll get away with it as scum.

[Toranaga]

I see saudade still isn’t scum hunting. Why are people town reading him?

His bravado doesn’t sway me. That’s easy to fake as scum. Scum hunting isn’t easy to fake and it’s clear here since he’s done a bad job faking it.

@saudade please read this - viewtopic.php?f=49&t=30907

Thank you.

this is absolutely on point. I like db a lot this game.

[Toranaga]

Bring back the saudade wagon since hes probably scum, he’s not scum hunting and he’s kind of being rude

No. Thank wagon was very likely scum driven.

I'm gonna fall onto things I fall onto every game with you, gamma, and say that you cannot possibly be legitimately thinking this and you look very scummy for saying it.

[Toranaga]

oh so all those votes on me were random?

I'm pretty sure you're townreading everyone outside of the early random votes that went on you there. so why are you not attacking gamma instead? gamma saying the wagon was scum motivated is bullshit, saudade. how did you miss that?

you're not scum with gamma so wake the fuck up will ya

[Toranaga]

Doughnut might be cruising through an easy day just by tunneling me under the pretenses that im toxic, could be fake =]

you're not toxic at all

doughnut is giving correct reasons to scumread your posting. he is not hiding behind calling you toxic and you shouldn't misinterpret him as doing so. the person who was doing that to you was guerilla.

[Toranaga]

very silly, almost unlikable, similar to Gorilla probably was on my wagon due to my horrible character
smalltown lean here to be honest I wouldn't lynch him so far

good

[Toranaga]

Also I think ProHawk forgot the game existed lol

.... naww just been busy work and probably just sad cause other peeps get all the attention and its weird for me not to be the D1 lynch nominee... BUT I did look at like one or two games of Saudade and he was a lot more cautious as scum, so his play here doesn't strike me as being very scum-like.

and this is how scum is currently playing on mafiascum

it's not even fun to play here anymore

[Toranaga]

like the dude literally magically appears in the thread minutes after someone mentions him, after saying nothing for what, days? and look at this post my god.

[Toranaga]

I subbed in for gambit

[Toranaga]

Honestly i was starting to reconsider my read until mila kunis. How can you seem townie sometimes but also post so much garbage?

literally making people dislike him into scumreading him

these emotions from dva are towny at any rate

[Toranaga]

I heavily dislike guerilla's posting on a personal level on pg 16 and it's making me feel he might be scum, but I'm aware this might just be instincts from me and not scummy things he did.

[Toranaga]

UNVOTE: Saudade

I think that as scum, he would have lazily tunnelled me all day, and he hasn't. I don't know how he managed those town slips. Maybe they're real, maybe he's lying town, I don't know. But as a case on their own, they're pretty thin. I'm going to do some more reading and make a decision about the next move.

what the fucking cringe is this

[Toranaga]

Tommy - Not a fan of his recent comment re: Saudade, sounded like a fabricated reason to get off Saudade. Could be scum.
DVa - Posts have been scummy, very probable scum - I'm voting here.
GuerillaWoo - I like his engagement, town read
Saudade - I looked back at his scum-game early on, granted it was his first scum game, but he is definitely a lot less crass than he is here. Leaning town
Flubbernugget - Need more.
LTVNGambit - Leaning town, haven't seen anything jumping out at me.
Alchemist21 - No real read here yet.... setting this in the null/sort pile
Gamma Emerald - No real read here either... setting this in the null/sort pile
Doughboy - Early town read. Still town.
EzekelRAGE - Posts feel town.

Majority of reads are from the gut, hard for me to engage stuff with all of the fighting going on in the thread.

this is always the lynch

look at the scumreadslist.txt this guy just made

come on now

[Toranaga]

Also I think ProHawk forgot the game existed lol

.... naww just been busy work and probably just sad cause other peeps get all the attention and its weird for me not to be the D1 lynch nominee... BUT I did look at like one or two games of Saudade and he was a lot more cautious as scum, so his play here doesn't strike me as being very scum-like.

and this is how scum is currently playing on mafiascum

it's not even fun to play here anymore

I also dislike that guerilla didn't notice prohawk or interacted with him in any way after calling him to the thread. why would you call someone to the thread, they magically appear, but then you don't do anything with it? why are you concerned with prohawk especifically? is he your scum partner or something?

[Toranaga]

they would, actually

I agree that's a small point in favour of him and IIRC my first comment on prohawk was that this is a towny thing he did, but he has a whole lot of scumposting otherwise that makes me disregard this.

[Toranaga]

I think that as scum, he would have lazily tunnelled me all day, and he hasn't.

Really?

Yeah. He's trying to sort people other than me in posts 349, 352, 353, 356, 357, 358, 363, 372, 381 and 382. Like you, I read his scum game. He just tunnels his lynchbait for most of day 1, then a late bus puts him in a good position for the second day. This is a different style. Right now I'm leaning town, and I'm as surprised about that as you are.

look, someone else read your scum game and you happen to think it's scum this time

I like the read he is making here and I kinda like the interaction with prohawk from his end

[Toranaga]

VOTE: DVa

He may be new, but he's following Albert B Rampage's famous scum guide to the letter.

the what

[Toranaga]

4 votes on Gorilla? Really?
some scum on that wagon for sure

LTVNGambit, Alchemist21, Gamma Emerald, Doughboy

actually all town if you're right on gamma

[Toranaga]

Can people who aren't on either of the two main wagons either switch votes or convince three or four others to join them?

what the fuck is this

[Toranaga]

it's probably guerilla and prohawk

[Toranaga]

I read until dva was replaced out and the new dude is towny as well so that's probably a town slot isn't it

gb is towny as fuck
so is alchemist, so is ezekel
saudade is towny too
flubber isn't doing anything but he hasn't been scummy, same thing can be said about winky I guess

I can't read gamma to any extent and I'm in the same spot I've ever been with him where half his posts look like scum to me, and the other half is towny.

tommy is a tier below gamma

so who's left? guerilla and prohawk

guerilla is just annoying to read. I was townreading it at first but it's too much of this loud crazy talk the whole time, I don't like it. there's some people that manage to create all this mad overconfident fake angry noise when they're scum and this is how I'm reading this guerilla dude now.

and prohawk is scum.

[Toranaga]

it's probably guerilla and prohawk

Idk how you can narrow it down so quickly. Gamma/Saudade/rage/dva all are legit possibilities also.

gun to my head, none of these people are scum

[Toranaga]

gb is towny as fuck

Who?

sorry, doughboy

[Toranaga]

I mean sure doughboy, I can be wrong about everything, it's just where I'm leaning rn

I disagree that saudade didn't do anything. he has actually done a lot and has pretty nuanced/smart takes on most slots which is what I expect from him as town

[Toranaga]

you're having a great game outside of being clearly pissed with ezekel before the game even started and that's letting you go off rails with garbage no one needs to read tbh

I don't care about your grudge and I'm not asking ezekel dick, alright? IDK why that's even relevant anyway. sometimes the WAY people do things is scummy outside of just the actions. guerilla's posting is different than gamma's posting. gamma is nuanced, calm, smart. guerilla is not those things x10.

[Toranaga]

sorry that was @doughboy

@tommy: I don't know, just irked me lol. it's not anything you said, just the way you said it. some of your posts are kinda scummy but I'm townreading everything else.

[Toranaga]

I mean sure doughboy, I can be wrong about everything, it's just where I'm leaning rn

I disagree that saudade didn't do anything. he has actually done a lot and has pretty nuanced/smart takes on most slots which is what I expect from him as town

His pushes/votes are bad. He does nothing until he’s at l-1 and then does minimal scum hunting. It’s easy to have good reads when you are informed and that is what it looks like. He’s definitely informed.

He tried to say tommy scum slipped for saying me v rage was probably t v t. That’s ridiculous

I can see what you're seeing actually. I just don't agree with the read. I think saudade made some really bad posts when he started but that improved significantly over time.

[Toranaga]

doughboy and alchemist are ~always town

[Toranaga]

Heading to bed, but I'd love to know which of my other posts you think are scummy (apart from 538).

I don't like your dva vote, the reasons for the dva vote and your other thoughts about that slot

I found the way you just unvoted saudade instead of going elsewhere chasing another scumread to be scummy, and I think your reasoning is fine, probably accurate, but something scum is way more aware than town re: people tunneling their slots

[Toranaga]

I think I’m about done with this game.

I'm sorry, we should just end the gameday before people get too pissed about it.

[Toranaga]

you're having a great game outside of being clearly pissed with ezekel before the game even started and that's letting you go off rails with garbage no one needs to read tbh

I don't care about your grudge and I'm not asking ezekel dick, alright? IDK why that's even relevant anyway. sometimes the WAY people do things is scummy outside of just the actions. guerilla's posting is different than gamma's posting. gamma is nuanced, calm, smart. guerilla is not those things x10.

I actually cane into this game with no ill will towards anyone. Rage is new and clearly inexperienced. He went off the rails because he didn’t agree with my opinion of him. He did something this game that seemed different then the other game and I said something cause it was noteworthy

you don't think a new inexperienced player like him would be scum here, do you?

[Toranaga]

you seem done with this game since it started prohawk.

[Toranaga]

hello there

[Toranaga]

wait, what? you can't talk specifically about what you perceive as different play from town!ezekel to thisgame!ezekel? if that game is finished you should be allowed to say it. unless there's something I'm missing or something you're misinterpreting, there's absolutely nothing wrong about you talking about ezekel's play in a finished game.

[Toranaga]

you've been both fine IMO and this is overmodding

we leave it for postgame

at any rate I think ezekel is town and I don't think lying is necessarily a scummy thing to do, unless ofc it's about your alignment

[Toranaga]

you're being a little grumpy though

ausuka didn't tell you not to bring up meta, just don't have a fight about his mistakes in that game

you're totally doing this, right? I read this game today, I know how you've been dealing with ezekel and it feels like outside the game grudge that no one but the two of you care about. that's what she doesn't want happening here probably. you can bring up past games just fine. she is not modding your right to case people.

[Toranaga]

you remind me a lot of tchill tbh

your heart is in the right place but I don't think anyone else is gonna see ezekel as scum this gameday

[Toranaga]

Gambit vs Guerilla(Saudade voting) – I can see both sides of this. While I did find it odd that Woo would unvote the Saud lynch because he stated he didn’t care if he got lynched or not. I myself wouldn’t have questioned the lynch since there are only 2 scum this game. Meaning most of the ppl voting Saudade were town. It’s day 1, not much to go on. So let Saudade lynch happen, check flip, question those who did driveby votes the next day phase.

Seems Woo skipped the lynch step and wanted to question the ppl who voted.
I can read that as town actually wondering how the wagon formed. I wondered the same, but would’ve went about It differently.
I can read it as a play from scum.

Slightly reading it as a town action path reading up til that point.

I don’t know how to read Saudade and his play style.

Will read up on everything after that.

Toranga. Help me out for a second. Am I misreading this or is rage saying he slightly town reads guerilla for his actions.

yeah he does. you find it scummy that he does? you think he is scum with guerilla?

[Toranaga]

yeah he does. you find it scummy that he does? you think he is scum with guerilla?

Do an iso of him starting at that post. Look how many posts he makes before calling him scum and putting him at l-1.

I'll do it.

you and alchemist are the only people I'm sure are town. I'm not saying the same thing about saudade, rage or anyone else. everytime people go at each other the way you guys did, it's read as genuine and it's hard not to shrug it off as tvt violence. I haven't read much from rage, I just skimmed through it. I don't think he is a very good candidate as a lynch d1 in this game. I'd rather lynch a lurker.

[Toranaga]

Gambit 262 – DB is my most suspicious, not Woo. I could be reading that wrong and you just meant more ppl overall found Woo suspicious than anyone else.

Alchemist – nice posts about reads of other player’s actions. Takes me from slight scum lean to neutral/slight town.

Tommy 324 After DB my next biggest scum read would be Woo. That’s not saying much though and relies on the me vs db situation. The way Woo went about minimizing my argument to “it’s just about him saying something about your voting confidence”. If he read what I posted he would know it wasn’t just that. While Alchemist otho seemed to come from a neutral view point on the situation.
Wanted the back and forth between me and db to stop, cuz it can go on for several pages and labels it “misunderstanding”. While it seem some arguing between other posters has taken just as long.
Wants gambit out for lying multiple times 359 but I mentioned DB lied multiple times as well 170, and he doesn’t seem to understand where I’m coming from.
I think gambit called him out on how he starting cursing and stuff when being pressured about something. I forget what specifically happened though. But

so after slight townreading him, he makes this big post explaining his scumread and then votes guerilla. there's absolutely nothing scummy about this, DB.

[Toranaga]

I get it

I've skimmed through most of the stuff tbh

how do you feel about prohawk?

[Toranaga]

I'm townreading your posts now in real time so maybe catching up on a rush gave me the wrong impression

[Toranaga]

***Personal Rant***

I join games on this site because the majority of players here are fun and enjoyable to play with. I don't get into a lot of games because life takes a lot of my time and leaves me with little for other things that I like to do. This game has ABSOLUTELY proved this wrong. The people in this playerlist are uninviting, people who resort insults rather than invistigate, people who could care less to have a little light-hearted fun and play a GAME. This probably doesn't apply to all of you but to the majority it does unfortunately. And it sucks, and it makes it so you don't have motivation to sift through the drudgery in order to play the game and make posts. Hell look at all of the replacements that have already replaced out.

***Personal Rant***

Fuck you. No like actually FUCK you. Who the hell do you think you are? I made the doc post in reference to your avatar. It was a reach out to start a fucking conversation. Get that stick out of your ass.

wants to play with enjoyable people but is a dick to others himself

[Toranaga]

In post 655, ProHawk wrote:
In post 622, wilky wrote:
ProHawk has 1 post that's useful. Again I want more from this slot asap. The last thing we need is passengers in d2+ and both Flubber and prohawk havent posted anywhere near enough yet


What's up doc?


Can we get actual content instead of this bullshit thankyou.

Fuck you. No like actually FUCK you. Who the hell do you think you are? I made the doc post in reference to your avatar. It was a reach out to start a fucking conversation. Get that stick out of your ass.

This response doesn’t fit what the post you just made 898
I just found it odd looking at the two posts is all.

hehe yeah

[Toranaga]

VOTE: flubbernugget

this might be a thing

guerilla is town yeah

[Toranaga]

IDRK if prohawk's emotional posting is towny or what

I might wanna try this instead

VOTE: flubbernugget

[Toranaga]

Thank you for choosing Tommy's Unofficial Vote Count:

• GuerillaWoo - Alchemist21, Gamma Emerald, EzekelRAGE
  EzekelRAGE - Doughboy
  ProHawk - Flubbernugget, Tommy, wilky, GuerillaWoo
  Flubbernugget - Saudade, Toranaga
  Tommy - ProHawk

Toranaga, what happened? You made this big case on ProHawk. Flubbernugget was null to you. Where did your vote come from?

he keeps calling himself town all the time, I find it towny

I'd lynch him in a heartbeat though

[Toranaga]

stop being a pussy and vote me then

Uh huh.

Got an associative tell for you all: I suggest that Toranaga's behaviour strengthens the case on ProHawk.

Toranaga posted a lot of stuff about how ProHawk is scum. Then ProHawk made a major swerve in approach. Then Toranaga did the same. My theory is:

1) Toranaga arrives and sees that ProHawk's play has been scummy.
2) Toranaga tells ProHawk to change his approach and warns him that he (Toranaga) will need to distance himself.
3) Toranaga proceeds to trash ProHawk's play in the game thread.
4) ProHawk makes an abrupt and unconvincing change in tone, which attracts votes and makes him the leading wagon. Toranaga hasn't anticipated this, and now has a difficult choice.
5) Toranaga elects not to bus his partner, choosing the unpalatable option of jumping on a wagon that he'd hitherto set up as a null read.

[Toranaga]

today I learned the word "hitherto"


"until now or until the point in time under discussion."

can't wait to use it in a mafia game

[Toranaga]

I think prohawk's attitude is a towny one. he is daring people to vote him. it's not something I see scum do that often on d1.

[Toranaga]

vc

get rekt

[Toranaga]

You should keep an open mind

lmao

[Toranaga]

I think prohawk's attitude is a towny one. he is daring people to vote him. it's not something I see scum do that often on d1.

I have actually seen scum do this a few times. It's a scare tactic. makes people think exactly what you are thinking.

I can get behind that lynch, sure

I've seen scum do that too. I've seen town do that way more though.

[Toranaga]

doughboy is awesome

[Toranaga]

mafiascum is terribly behind when it comes to anything forum based mafia, but afaik there's a newer version of MS sitting behind what I assume is tons of coding nobody did yet to make it ready, but yeah they're working on the site and there may be improvements in the future.

[Toranaga]

votecounts here are a tragedy

[Toranaga]

I think Toranaga is being the Towniest Town and Tommy’s post looks like a scummy attempt to shade the slot to me.

Toranaga is my most town as well. I did find it odd he flipped on thinking Prohawk is scum, which is why I dont mind Tommy posting his theory. Toranaga posted his reasoning for town reading pro. I can see a town or scum prohawk doing the "vote me" thing.

Quick prodge from me today. Had a real long day should be back to normal posting tomorrow night

why did you quote that post?

[Toranaga]

VOTE: prohawk

yeah I don't wanna deal with this guy tomorrow

sorry not sorry

hope you flip scum

[Toranaga]

VOTE: wilky

[Toranaga]

didn't you find wilky's last post a little weird? why is he quoting that post if all he did was talk about prod dodging?

[Toranaga]

I have no idea why you're so upset prohawk

[Toranaga]

aw fuck

ok

well

bye

[Toranaga]

gamma might be scum?

[Toranaga]

well I did just hammer that guy btw, he wasn't l-2 cause gamma voted him

I just somehow trusted you weren't saying l-2 when it was l-1

[Toranaga]

yeah it's a lynch

sucks to suck

at least I got what I wanted and we lynched asap. 42 pages already, time to move on yes?

[Toranaga]

that's the first and last time I try reaction testing like this lmao

[Toranaga]

good riddance indeed

[Toranaga]

gamma might be scum?

Is this for not announcing L-1
I don’t know if I was aware of that, don’t think I was

your vote on prohawk looks like the most opportunistic and I don't like how you explained yourself voting him

got my eyes on you buddeh

[Toranaga]

it's ok to be upset over being mislynched, I've definitely been there before

I think this game has many quality players though. other games on MS have a much worse field to play with.

[Toranaga]

Gamma didn't actually go back and look at my scum game, or at least brushed it off after it didn't fit their hypothesis instead of using it to rethink their position. My play between this game and that game is STARKLY different and didn't even process those differences except to say that it wasnt what they thought.

I absolutely did, and I don’t like you continuing to shade me with lies.

he is lynched already, he is obviously flipping town lmao

why are you even pushing him rn

it's so odd

[Toranaga]

I don't really think tommy is mafia

[Toranaga]

I can lynch flubber today

[Toranaga]

I am afraid of being on mislynches yes

I like winning mafia games

[Toranaga]

intent to hammer

flubber, say your piece

[Toranaga]

that's the first and last time I try reaction testing like this lmao

Toranaga, does this refer to your hammer? Can you talk me through how the reaction test would have worked?

I'm stupid

I tried to silently vote someone else to see if prohawk would "self hammer" like he intented to. it wasn't going to work anyway but it's what I tried doing. ended up hammering him myself so it is what it is.

[Toranaga]

I like tommy questioning me about it at any rate

[Toranaga]

tommy and guerilla are solid townreads in this page btw

[Toranaga]

we rework the POE cause we were wrong d1, that's pretty much it

put everyone back in the basket and proceed from there

[Toranaga]

the only person I was absolutely sure was town was doughboy and he is dead now

[Toranaga]

oh alchemist is town too

[Toranaga]

Not too sure on anyone atm
Saudade is a good candidate for scum too atm

[Toranaga]

DB was just being whiny and the mod didn't spew him town at all. I was scumreading tommy for saying that, it's reading too much into it and it felt like scum complaining somehow.

[Toranaga]

Not too sure on anyone atm
Saudade is a good candidate for scum too atm

Iirc it wasnt me who hammered town yesterday
Iirc i townread said slot
Iirc im the king anf ur not bow down peasant

none of these things make either of us either alignment

[Toranaga]

that's a bad reason to scumread me saudade

I thought you'd know better

[Toranaga]

When I prodged at the end of d1 the quote was accidental.
@toranaga the question I have though is even if the quote wasn't accidental what would be scummy about it?

VOTE: Flubber

when it's accidental I think it's a little >rand scum. when it's not accidental it makes no sense to post that so IDK how I'd read it.

the logic behind it is an extention of SHROOP, which is a tell someone coined back in my home community over 10 years ago. SHROOPs are formatting mistakes in phrasing that points to a post being edited many times. when a person is editing their own posts excessively, that means they're uncomfortable posting in the thread, which points to them being scum. When I see someone quoting 2 things instead of one accidentally, I picture them going to reply to something, then going back to the thread to read more, and then quoting something else on top of it because they forgot they were replying to a quote already. The act of leaving the reply area to read the thread again points to the poster being uncomfortable.

it's a stretch so I don't elaborate on anything like that but it crosses my mind when people do it.

[Toranaga]

You don't think your hammer looked at all scummy, Toranaga?

no, I think it was the towniest hammer of my life

[Toranaga]

it felt like a mixture of TMI and scum complaining that the mod made a mistake and spewed someone town.

[Toranaga]

let's find scum

[Toranaga]

Sorry guys been a hectic few days and to top it all off I've broken my laptop.

So far I'm at town in Tommy, Alchemist, Flubber and Ezekel

Got a slight town read on Saudade

Toranaga I felt had a good catch up but there's nothing really outwith that. I mean the fact he can't answer my question from the beginning of day makes me think he doesn't have an answer and it was scum trying to lay foundations for a later push.

VOTE: Toranaga

what was the question again?

[Toranaga]

oh I responded to it. I see you're more interested in pushing me for not answering you than reading the thread to see if I did

When I prodged at the end of d1 the quote was accidental.
@toranaga the question I have though is even if the quote wasn't accidental what would be scummy about it?

VOTE: Flubber

when it's accidental I think it's a little >rand scum. when it's not accidental it makes no sense to post that so IDK how I'd read it.

the logic behind it is an extention of SHROOP, which is a tell someone coined back in my home community over 10 years ago. SHROOPs are formatting mistakes in phrasing that points to a post being edited many times. when a person is editing their own posts excessively, that means they're uncomfortable posting in the thread, which points to them being scum. When I see someone quoting 2 things instead of one accidentally, I picture them going to reply to something, then going back to the thread to read more, and then quoting something else on top of it because they forgot they were replying to a quote already. The act of leaving the reply area to read the thread again points to the poster being uncomfortable.

it's a stretch so I don't elaborate on anything like that but it crosses my mind when people do it.

[Toranaga]

why were you townreading gamma, saudade?

[Toranaga]

Not too sure on anyone atm
Saudade is a good candidate for scum too atm

Iirc it wasnt me who hammered town yesterday
Iirc i townread said slot
Iirc im the king anf ur not bow down peasant

Being right does not equal being town

yeah but you've said fuck all this day and yesterday

you were talking to me

gamma interjects for no reason

you randomly push him as a response?

is this SvS or something?

[Toranaga]

Accidental quotes are not SHROOPs

I didn't say they were

[Toranaga]

saudade actually spewing himself not scum with gamma

good stuff

wilky voting me is probably the other scum

[Toranaga]

I don't think guerilla is scum and I'm unwilling to reconsider this gameday

[Toranaga]

Gamma didn't actually go back and look at my scum game, or at least brushed it off after it didn't fit their hypothesis instead of using it to rethink their position. My play between this game and that game is STARKLY different and didn't even process those differences except to say that it wasnt what they thought.

I absolutely did, and I don’t like you continuing to shade me with lies.

prohawk was already hammered, declared himself town and was talking it out during twilight. gamma is on such an automatic OMGUS mode that he starts pushing prohawk with it

ok I'm re-reading EOD and I forgot how scummy gamma was.

[Toranaga]

saudade actually spewing himself not scum with gamma

Talk me through this please?

I'd have to re-read d1 stuff to confirm, but saudade was townreading gamma for defending him, which is not a svs thing usually (not the act of defending scum d1, but townreading your scum partner for defending you), and the way he describes how gamma read him reads like gamma having TMI: "when gorilla was pushing me you took a different stance n pushed him instead acknowledging my play as regular n usual", as in, scum gamma saw a TvT and decided to push on whoever looked the most wrong.

again I'd have to re-read it but if the things saudade describes are accurate, I'd bet gamma is scum and saudade is town.

[Toranaga]

why would you push hammered self declared town who is talking things out in twilight?

[Toranaga]

o ezekel is scummy

[Toranaga]

VOTE: ProHawk
I ISOd him and I think he’s rather defensive

ok

you're scum

[Toranaga]

gamma/wilky/ezekel has hopefully 2 scum

I remember having strong reasons to townread alchemist, I like tommy a lot this gameday, I think I buy flubber's claim, and tonally guerilla is probably always town. saudade looks alright if gamma is scum and is towny overrall.

so rn I'm at gamma/+1, either wilky or ezekel, but I remember having good reasons to townread ezekel yesterday.

[Toranaga]

it didn't register to you that the hammered person who kept posting his thoughts ITT was town? even if you miss the post where they self declare town, just what is the plan for him as scum there? spew? and even if you're considering this possibility, can you not tone read him as town the way he was approaching it? why would hammered scum push you? what's the strategy?

[Toranaga]

VOTE: gamma emerald

[Toranaga]

I don't believe you

[Toranaga]

I don't believe you'd proceed to spew people town when you're scum to "cause confusion". it seems like a lie to me. no reasonable player would do that, especially d1. you just shaded prohawk because he was pushing you, with no care for the context in which he was doing it and without anything reasonable you could even consider scumreading him for.

[Toranaga]

I don't think he'd do that as town cause he'd be trying to solve the game instead of OMGUSing hammering people. I view his OMGUS as defensive and disingenuous.

[Toranaga]

*hammered people

[Toranaga]

days without lynching gamma: 20

[Toranaga]

I pushed you in a strong manner and now I'm just lazily reiterating the scumread

suspicious af I know

[Toranaga]

guerrilla woo's post is kinda hard to get into but yeah I like the alchemist stuff and whatever ends on us lynching gamma is fine by me

[Toranaga]

you reference many things I don't remember or didn't notice

it's my fault

[Toranaga]

I could but I rather kill gamma

[Toranaga]

hey we all here

what's up fellas

hi gamma, I think you're scum

[Toranaga]

we interact in real time and that always helps

[Toranaga]

wilky is V/LA until monday so wagoning him accomplishes very little

unless we wanna lynch him now or something

[Toranaga]

I've got a medium sized dick but I compensate in aggression

[Toranaga]

anyone else on this gamma/wilky with a side of ezekel type of POE?

[Toranaga]

oh ezekel is replacing out? damn

[Toranaga]

I read about 40 of his posts and agree he is probably town.

the argument with doughboy sounded genuine on both sides and I like his read on you when he puts you on L-1. seems genuine and committed in the several posts I read.

so it might be just wilky/gamma? who else is suspicious?

[Toranaga]

Guys

Do things

[Toranaga]

Can you remind me why you think guerilla is town?

I need other ways of saying genuine sounding posts

I repeat myself so much

[Toranaga]

I think everyone is a potato who can't read people until they prove me otherwise

but sure, why are you concerned his motivations are dubious? I'm all ears

[Toranaga]

VOTE: wilky

I like gamma's last post

[Toranaga]

guerilla pls

[Toranaga]

I want gamma to track me if possible

it'd be very convenient

[Toranaga]

VOTE: saudade

you're fucking scum

[Toranaga]

saudade is full of shit

that's my case on him

you either see it, or you don't see it

[Toranaga]

maybe

[Toranaga]

I'm not good with words

[Toranaga]

I just fucking feel it rn

I'll ISO you when I'm in the mood

[Toranaga]

did I just catch you for the wrong reasons?

why are you spamming?

[Toranaga]

well we shouldn't lynch pr claims

why are people doing that? tf

[Toranaga]

not these 2 anyway

[Toranaga]

I'll do neither, not today

when I have the time I'll work on this proper

[Toranaga]

I have the strong feeling you were lying about your dick size

[Toranaga]

The point of that post is the less scum knows about what our PRs are going to do, the better.

that is true

[Toranaga]

I was suggesting gamma targeted me, not having us make a plan in the open fwiw

[Toranaga]

mafiascum is making me a bad player I'm not gonna lie

[Toranaga]

I can't do 2 week gamedays at all. it's too boring for me. I either make it so ridiculously methodical that there's no way I miss anything relevant that happened in the game and make reminders and notes, or getting into a game everytime after 2-3 days of not reading it is a pain in the ass. it's really not for me so I'll just potato from here on out.

[Toranaga]

oops

IDK

I need to read

lemme make coffee and try to get into this

[Toranaga]

mafiascum is making me a bad player I'm not gonna lie

Wouldn't surprise me tbh because like I said before MafiaScum Town winrates are bad. It's not often I play offsite and it's been a while since I have, but every time I've played on another site I've done markedly better.

I think what it is is that the longer dayphases give scum more time to let pressure on them de-escalate. Like, you catch scum in a 24/48 hr Day and they start flailing because they have to defuse the suspicion on them quickly. On MafiaScum you can wagon scum and they can literally just shut up and wait until some Townie says something to draw everyone's attention away. Plus games tend to fall into apathetic states where people just stop caring which lets scum coast to a win.

yeah, almost feel like campaigning to make an appointment so we can all be here and hash this out properly

tho thread is hella active now

[Toranaga]

you know

intent to hammer

[Toranaga]

if wilky didn't do anything by the time I have to go to bed, I'll lynch him

so he has a few hours

[Toranaga]

..... so he has a split personality where on one he thinks im scum and on the other he doesnt?

I was trying to get into the game

[Toranaga]

To continue the trend, on D3 we should play Mario kart and whoever gets last place gets lynched

that's a great idea

[Toranaga]

gotta hop on that towncred

[Toranaga]

is it? I don't see how it's nuanced. it's not scummy so whatever, but nuanced?

[Toranaga]

is it because you can tell guerilla is trying to parse them out but can't do it because the whole convo is noise? I guess I can see it actually.

[Toranaga]

wait, I may have found some WIM

[Toranaga]

I'll go ahead and work hard and get scum today, do not hammer

[Toranaga]

notes: part 1

I'm reading the whole thread and making notes as I go so I'll refer to them later. posting here for convenience but I don't know how interesting of a read this will be for anyone else.

ok let's get to it:

Spoiler:

#3: dva replacing scioness. this was brought up as maybe AI for scioness as she doesn't like to play scum, but it's been denied that this is AI because scioness was actually taking a break from all her games.
#5: this is already towny for alchemist, jumping on that replacement thing. I think it's very unlikely they're scum together at least.
#7: tommy sheeping this vote feels awkward. I think town would like to explore alchemist's statement instead of just sheeping it, so I'm suspicious of tommy's mindset. small thing.
#9: dva's entrance.
#11: from alchemist is a very strong point against dva. she got 3 votes and isn't commenting on people voting her. alchemist/dva are pointing to not being svs all the way. alchemist is towny.
#28 and #30: from saudade. I don't like this. saudade is definitely smart enough to be reading into the interactions from p1, and his response to alchemist reads like a fake excuse and not something saudade actually believes. saudade's reaction to alchemist saying dva is scum because scioness subbed out implies saudade didn't read anything before posting. I dislike his reaction too, it's a little over the top. #31 to #36 feel off.
#45 from tommy. I find it scummy to be arguing that things are NAI like he is doing here. there's no purpose for this post at all.
#47 from guerilla is a very good post with a very good vote given what happened so far.
#49 from gamma is strange. he is defending saudade but I don't think saudade was being towny to be defended, as he gave 0 thoughts on the game so far.
#51 from ezekel. scumreading people for reading into scioness replacement as scummy. this is yet another player reacting oddly to alchemist's suggestion. not sure what to make of it, but if scioness does replace out as scum a lot cause she hates it, what's scummy about suggesting the replace out is scummy? I don't understand this post. #54 is a bad follow up too.
#56 from guerilla. this is a good push on ezekel, and I agree with the reasoning. instead of voting players who he finds scummy, ezekel is just randomly pointing at no one in particular as scummy instead of just voting someone, as if he was asking the thread for permission to scumread people, as guerilla pointed out. this is good. guerilla very towny here, alongside alchemist. ezekel, saudade and gamma don't feel towny so far.
#59 from guerilla. ~always town IMO.
#60 from dva. bad vote, but it's understandable that she is defensive here. and voting tommy isn't bad.
up to #67 from saudade are awful posts. the ones calling dva's name ugly but not AI are awkward, and then the way he approaches ezekel on #67 is the scummiest post of the game so far. it's coming off as commentary on people's actions and behaviour without trying to draw a read on their alignment. it reads really weird to me. saying ezekel deserves to be voted for his presentation, when the idea behind it isn't scummy, is weird levels of treating ezekel as if he knows ezekel's alignment. why is saudade doing live coaching on ezekel's posts? does he think they're towny, or scummy, or what?

also a note on this: saudade is saying ezekel's idea isn't scummy, so is it towny? "not scum-like" implies the idea itself is NAI to saudade. if the idea is NAI, then ezekel is not excused for acting scummy around it, so why is saudade not phrasing this as a scumread? this is so scummy.

this will take a while.

[Toranaga]

I actually have to go lmao

I guess hammer ahead :shrug:

be here tomorrow if you don't

[Toranaga]

I'm bad lately ngl

[Toranaga]

don't think wilky is scum now reading his ISO

halfway through p1 but if he is scum he is very good

[Toranaga]

shrug

there's a bunch of people spewed town for how they reacted to alchemist jumping on dva on the replace out argument, including alchemist

so you guys solve from there

wish I was tracked instead so I could show myself going nowhere

and yeah I'm just rolling over cause zzzz sorry

[Toranaga]

replaced just to call the team out lol

too bad you're wrong mate

[Toranaga]

idk

who is ezekel's replacement?

[Toranaga]

hey maybe it's you then

[Toranaga]

I want you to eat these words tomorrow and be mislynched

[Toranaga]

personally I liked dva as a partner but then that fucking bunny had to replace in

sucks

[Toranaga]

why are you quoting dead town mr creature

[Toranaga]

and so what? what does that say about saudade's alignment and why are you quoting this chain of posts if it doesn't? you're complaining about spam, but what are you doing here? this isn't even trying to solve

[Toranaga]

I'm giving up on not being lynched yeah

and I'm having fun on top of it so you'll never really know if I'm giving up as scum or town

also VOTE: creature

[Toranaga]

your chain feels like tryharding too

[Toranaga]

let's go girls

[Toranaga]

o shania

[Toranaga]

scum needs to stop RWSTFO all the time here

sucks to want to be a replacement

[Toranaga]

ikr

I'm town but I'd rather go out lolcatting

[Toranaga]

town

sucks to suck

gl fellas

[Toranaga]

kill creature next maybe