Mini Normal 2118: Boon Gets Pretentious - [Day 4]

[AaronFrost]

Fuck

Interesting.

[AaronFrost]

Fuck

*first

[AaronFrost]

Unhappy to roll scum, eh, Aaron?

[AaronFrost]

OHHH! That’s what it’s from! I thought it was that one hungry games movie raiders of the lost arc

It's obviously a Star Wars gif bruh

[AaronFrost]

VOTE: Hectic

[AaronFrost]

Their post is so inoffensive and nice, it feels like they’re trying to get on people’s good sides.

psh you think you know me dawg?

Spoiler:

I am

not

mafia.

I

am not mafia.
I

am

not mafia.
I am not

mafia

.

I

am

not

mafia.

I really wanted to play with Creative too

Well damn you must be telling the truth. After all, no one would ever lie about not being mafia in a game of mafia. That'd be silly...

VOTE: Ame

[AaronFrost]

I mean I thought Ame's opening was pretty LAMIST so I think they're a good wagon right now. I'm also generally not a fan of RQS as it's usually not helpful.

[AaronFrost]

Those questions aren't random. They are the result of hundreds of hours of research into the best way of identifying vocal discrepancies between town and scum. The test has a 97.7% accuracy rating. Scum simply can't help but exhibit certain physiological responses when answering.

What do you make of it considering no one has answered your questions.

[AaronFrost]

Man this game is off to a slow start

[AaronFrost]

Those questions aren't random. They are the result of hundreds of hours of research into the best way of identifying vocal discrepancies between town and scum. The test has a 97.7% accuracy rating. Scum simply can't help but exhibit certain physiological responses when answering.

What do you make of it considering no one has answered your questions.

How does this help you discern Ame's alignment?

It doesn't and I'm not sure why you think that I expect it to, I'm just hoping to get some discussion going.

[AaronFrost]

Honestly I welcome the engagement if it gets other people talking, which is really what I'd like to happen here. How people are reading me is something I'm not concerned about atm.

Ame's entrance was the only thing that stuck out to me as something worth pushing, so naturally that's where I'm going to go.

[AaronFrost]

I mean I thought Ame's opening was pretty LAMIST so I think they're a good wagon right now. I'm also generally not a fan of RQS as it's usually not helpful.

[AaronFrost]

So far, yes. Not sure I like Luca's clidd vote though.

[AaronFrost]

I can kind of see your premise for the push, but the part that bothered me was that you followed upon it only later, which read to me as weird because it's attempted to look like a joke while technically you're pushing out of RVS, it felt very agenda-y in that sense. As in, it's disguised as RVS, has a snarky tone to it but isn't flat out stating a suspicion. And you saying the wall is scummy and the voting being focused on something else strikes me as odd, as I'd imagined the vote and your initial accusation / gut feel should've been a contiguous thought, whereas that waiting period made it seem like you were baiting reactions from other people so as to see how they felt about Ame's wall and judging whether it was worthy of a push or not. Also why i pointed out the "something worth pushing" whereas I would've expected town to say "It's scummy" as opposed to "worthy of pushing" because it involves two different mentalities. Scum look at what pushes they can get away with, and town pushes for things that are actually gonna make someone flip scum.

The snarky thing is just sorta my personality tbh but also I wanted to see how Ame reacted to it and wasn't as concerned with others' reactions. I can see how it might come off like that though.

One thing to note is that no one else came and said 'yeah I found Ame's opening scummy too' and Hectic even sorta defended them, although it may have been a joke (I can never tell with him). So if I'm scum here, and I'm observing that no one else wants to push Ame, then I'm not going to continue the push whereas town me is going to follow the one read I have, even if it's met with resistance.

[AaronFrost]

I just realized 1/3 of the playerlist is V/LA so that's probably what's contributing to the slowness.

[AaronFrost]

I actually think you have quite a courageous scum game play (or you are faking it well), this beating around the bush feeling I got from the push is definitely weird, I just interpreted that as scummy at face value but having *some* experience with you it'd probably be town indicative? Might dive into your meta.

So only ame's scum?

I got some pings off of Luca's clidd vote but I need more from him + giving him the benefit of the doubt because of his V/LA

[AaronFrost]

So far, yes. Not sure I like Luca's clidd vote though.

I have reason to believe Clidd doesn’t like playing as scum, and he’s ignoring this game while being active on site.

I hate making reads on stuff like this, but it is what it is.

What happened to your Ame read then? No interest in pursuing that further?

[AaronFrost]

lets just kill someone so something happens

How about we like wait for the V/LA people to come back first?

[AaronFrost]

@Ame

Those questions aren't random. They are the result of hundreds of hours of research into the best way of identifying vocal discrepancies between town and scum. The test has a 97.7% accuracy rating. Scum simply can't help but exhibit certain physiological responses when answering.

What do you make of it considering no one has answered your questions.

[AaronFrost]

@everyone please let’s lynch AME before this game gets out of control.

Let's just not rush a lynch. I agree that Ame's read/vote on you is bad, but I'm not rushing a lynch over it.

Ame can you walk me through your reads a little more? I'm a little weary of me being your strongest townread when I've been the biggest push on you.

[AaronFrost]

It wasn't really that serious. I didn't expect anyone to answer them really.

This post kinda proves otherwise. Clearly you were expecting people to respond, and intending to use the responses for analysis.

Those questions aren't random. They are the result of hundreds of hours of research into the best way of identifying vocal discrepancies between town and scum. The test has a 97.7% accuracy rating. Scum simply can't help but exhibit certain physiological responses when answering.

[AaronFrost]

I think we should rush it cause this game will become pretty hard to read if one of us isn’t resolved quickly.

I want other people to weigh in on this

[AaronFrost]

@Mod

I'm currently voting for Ame, so they're at L-1.

I'll respond to stuff later.

[AaronFrost]

Aaron, it's a joke. We can't actually hear people's voices in this game or measure their GSR (Galvanic Skin Response). There was nothing serious about my questions at all. I was just writing bad Sci-Fi.

That's not the impression I got when I pressed you about it

[AaronFrost]

Insomia said if anyone called his reads baseless he’d essentially lose his shit. I did that and nothing. So I voted him to try and like the bear some more. And still nothing.

This is scum trying to keep their cool. Insomnia doesn’t strike me as a guy who keeps his cool.

So am I correct in assuming you think the team is Ame/insomnia?

[AaronFrost]

You implied that you either had a town read or no read on my opening. Then you used my opening to justify voting me. From that I inferred that you forgot about the question you asked before which implied your town/null read. From that, I inferred that your reasoning for voting me was fabricated. From that, I inferred that you are mafia.

This is a decent point about nipple flips though. 71 seemed to imply that he was sorta townreading Ame, or at the very least didn't understand why they were being scumread.

[AaronFrost]

Yo Aaron, how do you feel about Ame atm?

I don't like their Wimpy read either, feels fabricated and not genuine at all. Their switch of opinion on you was pretty bad too.

Unless this is some wild case of bussing, I'm gonna say that Wimpy/Ame are never scum together here. Ame's forced read on Wimpy + Wimpy being content to deathtunnel Ame feels like a farfetch'd interaction for scum mates to have on Day 1.

[AaronFrost]

I know you aren't doing it consciously but this is just unnecessary banter that I've dealt with in the past. Wasn't trying to put it on you, not my intention, I was explaining why I'm not snapping at you, of course you wouldn't know. I'm just on really thin fucking ice and this is the reason I took a break, because of my toxicity so I'd appreciate if you just stopped trying to poke a creature that will wreak havoc. I can endure stuff but like don't push it too much either.

This + insomnia's tone in general is pretty townie

@Wimpy

so they're independent reads, gotcha, thanks

[AaronFrost]

@Luca

can you link me to the games where clidd replaced out as scum? I do want more from that slot so hopefully they either post some reads soon or get replaced.

[AaronFrost]

Hey sorry been busy lately. Will catch up later today.

[AaronFrost]

Ame's page 9 was pretty good actually but I'm not willing to slap a townread there just yet. Even scum who get heat early can obvtown to take the pressure off of them.

[AaronFrost]

Because he wouldn't say this as scum. We played a game together, and he's acting the same way (he was town that game).

Don't you think that scum!Luca would try to emulate his towngame as much as possible?

I don't have much meta with scum Luca, the one scum game I did play with him he replaced out of so not much to go on there.

[AaronFrost]

I'm at a problem where I have no idea how to read Wimpy's deathtunnel of Ame. Like there's a part of me that thinks that that kind of behavior almost never comes from scum, but I think the way he's going about it is also objectively anti-town.

[AaronFrost]

Hectic, unvote Flips please. I want to catch up without worrying about a lolhammer.

This guy is extremely locktown, I hope you see that too.

This is a bad post to locktown someone off of, scum can easily say things like that to get towncred (I've seen them do it quite a bit too). Not accusing Luca of anything, just throwing that out there.

[AaronFrost]

@Luca

can you link me to the games where clidd replaced out as scum? I do want more from that slot so hopefully they either post some reads soon or get replaced.

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=81952

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=81816

Thanks

[AaronFrost]

Because he wouldn't say this as scum. We played a game together, and he's acting the same way (he was town that game).

Don't you think that scum!Luca would try to emulate his towngame as much as possible?

I don't have much meta with scum Luca, the one scum game I did play with him he replaced out of so not much to go on there.

Yes, obviously, but I have personal reasons for considering him locktown.

Such as?

[AaronFrost]

As long as we vote Emperor, Dsjstr or Hectic today, we're good.

VOTE: Emperor FlippyNips

If you truly TR me then trust my read on Flips.

I think dsjstr is Town as well. Hectic is a decent option, although I need to review.

Why do you townread dsj?

[AaronFrost]

Aaron is trending down for seemingly not comprehending my sarcasm, which is just weird.

Sarcasm doesn't translate well over text, I don't get why that's AI.

[AaronFrost]

Clidd is probably Town for now just by the fact he's actively contributing.

VOTE: Insomnia

I'll try this for size.

I think insomnia is town actually.

I liked their engagement with me early game, it felt like he was genuinely trying to understand my thought process regarding my Ame read as opposed to just attacking it.

[AaronFrost]

You think as scum he would have just attacked it?

Maybe not, but I think the way he changed his read on me was genuine and his interactions with me early on were genuine as well.

I'll look into your case against him further tomorrow though (irl).

[AaronFrost]

I'll be mostly V/LA tomorrow, maybe be able to check in at night

[AaronFrost]

This is what I'm more used to seeing from clidd as town: viewtopic.php?p=11552826#p11552826

As town, he's very analytical and has good fleshed-out reasons for sorting people, but I'm not seeing the same thing in how he's townlocking Wimpy/Luca here. The reasons given there don't warrant a townlock. Not 100% I saw this, but why are you townreading him, AaronFF?

I'm not really? I don't have a strong read on clidd one way or the other. Where did I mention I was townreading him?

[AaronFrost]

well tbf in there i was scum reading billy and not you, you just so happened to replace in that slot and couldn't town tell, so i say that's a really bad pocketing attempt, don't appeal to my emotions as it's not gonna work

Would you mind linking that game for reference?

[AaronFrost]

You're saying scum wouldn't fake a read which they couldn't explain, right? But clidd stated a read... and explained it. I'm not sure what you mean. Also, clidd's default is having reasons like that for reads, and that is one of his good ones. But the townlocking thing and confidence there is what concerns me. I don't think it's natural to go from "unsure" to "townlock" on Wimpo on a replace out.

Also, clidd, Wimpo's replace out happened in other games too. Does it still make him a townlock?

Do you think this points to a clidd/Wimpy!slot scumteam? Because if cliddscum and Wimpytown, then what reason does cliddscum have to display such a strong townread on someone who's town when they could've taken advantage of Wimpy's aggressive and anti town behavior.

PEDIT: Nope, I don't really think I've been passive or cautious either? I'm also at a point where I'm reevaluating my reads.

[AaronFrost]

I will say that I'm not used to flippy nips posting this much, most of the games I've played with him he usually lurks and ends up mislynched.

Does that make putting effort into his posts scum indicative for him? Gonna ISO him.

Still like my insomnia read.

[AaronFrost]

nippleflips

The progression from 71 to 107 felt off. I explained why this was off earlier and I don't feel like repeating myself so go look in my ISO if you want my opinion on it.

230 kind of implies that he's actively looking for pushes (he said "Ame was the only one worth pushing") instead of trying to sort it himself or give his own perspective on it.

461 is pretty jarring with the knowledge that he replaced into a slot that insomnia was already scumreading in the referenced game

Nothing else in flips's ISO stands out to me honestly. This definitely doesn't feel like town/lurky/disengaged flippy nips though.

@insomnia

given that you and flippy nips were both town in good jams, are you noticing any traits other than activity that feel different from that game?

[AaronFrost]

Regarding 218, I don't like how, when asked about your read on Ame (who is the only player you've pushed so far) you basically just conclude that she and Wimpy aren't scum together, which is a really safe and obvious conclusion to make. You don't really commit to either maintaining your SR or reconsidering it.

If I'll be honest, when things get toxic between two players, I have a hard time differentiating alignments from it but from what I usually see they're never s/s.

I don't get your point about my Ame read. I did reconsider it back when I said that Ame's page 9 was good and while her town equity was rising I'm also well aware scum would do everything in that situation to get themselves townread (or at least try to).

[AaronFrost]

flippy/emporer scum team conf

Do you any actual thoughts to contribute? I can't remember a single thing you've done in this game so far.

[AaronFrost]

And you can appreciate that, fmpov, it looks as though you're posturing?

It seems as though you need the thread to know you're being considered over Ame, even though essentially you've provided nothing new whatsoever. It doesn't seem natural to me, and neither does a number of your other posts in which fence-sit, such as 387, 389.

It's the way you're casting doubt over a read (which isn't necessarily bad) but then hastily adding you don't necessarily SR that player. It feels cautious and more likely to come from scum.

Basically, you're being TR and, if you're scum, have something to hold onto, which ties in with my view that you're playing more cautiously than you were in the early game.

I wanted to poke clidd about his reasons for 'locktowning' you, not because of my own reads, but because I think the reasons he townreads you for are way too hasty. Saying 'scum would never say this' then they would and have and a weak meta case of 'he played like this as town so therefore Luca = town' feels like a rushed and fabricated thought processes. My own read on you is irrelevant to those posts.

[AaronFrost]

Actually I'm more surprised that you haven't brought it up yourself and just kind of accepted the weaksauce townread on you with little justification.

420 - "Clidd is probably town for now just by the fact that he's actively contributing"

do you actually believe that? Walk me through that read a little more.

[AaronFrost]

The response wasn't really asking him about the read directly though, it was more of a rhetorical question that you didn't expect him to actually answer. He did answer though.

250 - I don't really get why Clidd has me as lock town for the posts he linked. Why would you TR someone for common sense?

And how is the post below common sense or even town-indicative?

Welcome dsjstr, but damn I’m disappointed creative left. Was looking forward to playing with them.

It seems that you misinterpreted my read's intention. Common sense, in this context, are suggestively basic attitudes or actions, with simple reasoning based on evidence or a series of information that, when linked, form a certain conclusion that is beyond the reach of possible scums, being more easily performed by towns, precisely for the intuitive behavioral authenticity, which I used to subjectively evaluate the set of posts I quoted about you. Evidently, when a fragment is separated from them, it is not possible, however, to understand the general meaning, therefore, isolating post 67 the way it was done in this post is something that significantly distances it from the proper interpretation and, consequently, contributed to the structuring of a line of thought that fits me, obviously, as extreme scum from your point of view. Possibly the two games we played in, had a greater impact on your decision making about my possible alignment placement here, if we do not consider my distance from the beginning of the game. This is problematic, considering that you are locktown to me, even though you are mistaken in most of your considerations. I believe that an approach to this, imagining myself in your place, will not be effective in changing your opinion, so I will probably be ignoring you in this game.

And you never really followed up on it other than slapping a townread on him.

[AaronFrost]

It's almost 1AM here so I'm going to bed. If you have any other questions for me I'll answer them tomorrow at some point.

[AaronFrost]

And I gave my reasons for 'slapping a TR on him'.

This feels just like in the last game where I suspected you, and you tried to deflect from it by suspecting me in return.

Why didn't you mention any of this before I called you out?

I was catching up from like page 15 or so last night and the posts that I'm scumreading you for happened after that point. I was going to call you out for them, but you called me out before I got the chance.

And like, think about it, would scumme seriously try the same deflection tactic on the same person two games in a row? I think you and I are both smart enough at this game to know that I wouldn't do that.

[AaronFrost]

I even linked him the games regarding Clidd so he should have already known my reason for not pursuing that initial SR.

I'm aware of your reasons for not pursuing the scumread, but for one the initial scumread was pretty weaksauce (I didn't pursue it at the time because it seemed like clidd would either start contributing, or would flake and be replaced) but okay we can agree to disagree there.

My problem comes from the fact that since he has started contributing, there has been little to no attempt to sort him or analyze his content, and I think Lucatown would take a look at some of the things that are off in his ISO instead of just giving him a free pass.

[AaronFrost]

It's basically taking my point and saying 'no u'. It's a common scum tactic. Town do it as well, but it certainly isn't Town-indicative imo.

I didn't do that though? You pressed me because you thought I was being passive and cautious, so saying 'no u' would be me saying that I think YOU have been passive and cautious, which I am not accusing you of.

[AaronFrost]

And I think it's unreasonable that you're SR'ing me so strongly because I disagree on Frost.

If you want to admit that your perfect record on Aaron is now broken, I'll drop it

(But not really)

Seriously, your apparent confidence that Frost is Town based on the above is disturbing to me.

Although I kind of agree with this, I tend to get worried that I'm being pocketed whenever people overly townread me.

[AaronFrost]

No, he would be more cautious. The correct move here, socially speaking, would be to further question my motivations for believing in him and, probably, start a wagon based on the oscillation present in the numerical factor of my activity. This would be done almost automatically, if he had a scum mindset. However, as I was able to observe, he preferred to reveal this aspect and seems to accept, temporarily, my existence for the time being, when he could be building associations out of the read he got from recycling and citing my two scums games. The scenario in which he is taking advantage of this does not come to my mind, and I do not intend to review this position.

Wouldn't him being more cautious and not pushing the read be scum indicative then? Like if I'm Lucascum who's noticing that townclidd is willing to locktown me based off of almost nothing, then that's someone I'd try to keep alive to give myself extra armor.

Also since you never confirmed one way or the other (unless you did and I missed it), do you hate playing scum? Why did you replace out of those two games?

[AaronFrost]

And I think it's unreasonable that you're SR'ing me so strongly because I disagree on Frost.

I have to say I agree with this and I saw Luca as being town in the Luca/Aaron clash. Aaron was not fence sitting in his town game with me, but he did start the game slow and then quickly positioned players. Luca and Aaron can you share your thoughts on the flippy wagon. If you have already done so can you quote it for me.

I already talked about them here

insomnia I don't think you ever addressed this question

"given that you and flippy nips were both town in good jams, are you noticing any traits other than activity that feel different from that game?"

[AaronFrost]

\The close-mindedness of Insomnia’s Luca/Flips push is so lazy and terrible that he’s probably scum.

This is the kind of statement that I almost never expect to come from town!Luca nor was insomnia pushing a Luca/flippynips team. He said it was a TMI read which implies that you both can't be scum together.

[AaronFrost]

Luca, what are your current reads?

I still TR Flips and dsjstr.

I currently think scum is among Frost, Ame and Insomnia, but need to review Hectic who seemed off earlier.

Why do you townread dsj? If you already answered this then I don't remember so could you link it to me if you did.

[AaronFrost]

I think Frost would try to improve as scum and don’t see anything in this game he couldn’t have faked so far. We could go in circles here.

Yeah of course I would try to improve, but you're molding your read on me under that assumption instead of actually evaluating my play here.

So IF I am scum trying to improve my play here, then WHY would I attempt the same deflection tactic that I did on you in Mini 2115 in this game with a similar playerlist AND knowing that it didn't work? That makes no fucking sense.

[AaronFrost]

The simple fact that Aaron has been diametrically opposite of his scum game which was his last one before this

And you even suggesting “he would strive to improve” while neglecting how hard it is for someone to switch up their meta from a game to another

Not to mention the first scum game I played with him was while I was still a newbie (which was like > 7 months ago) and my first ever scum game on site. My most recent with him was Mini 2115 which just ended. I had numerous other scumgames in between then which explains the difference in play there. So saying I could drastically change in the span of 1 game is ridiculous.

[AaronFrost]

I didn’t read his exchange with Luca and I did mention it.

I think it would be beneficial for you to read it considering that's the hot button topic here and the whole reason Luca is pushing me right now.

[AaronFrost]

I know you aren't doing it consciously but this is just unnecessary banter that I've dealt with in the past. Wasn't trying to put it on you, not my intention, I was explaining why I'm not snapping at you, of course you wouldn't know. I'm just on really thin fucking ice and this is the reason I took a break, because of my toxicity so I'd appreciate if you just stopped trying to poke a creature that will wreak havoc. I can endure stuff but like don't push it too much either.

This + insomnia's tone in general is pretty townie

@Wimpy

so they're independent reads, gotcha, thanks

What about this is townie? He was quite argumentative with Wimpy in the previous game. If I were to read into this it would be scumSomni attempting to avoid the spotlight.

Ame's page 9 was pretty good actually but I'm not willing to slap a townread there just yet. Even scum who get heat early can obvtown to take the pressure off of them.

I don't get where I'm at for you. You find my posts townie, but they aren't AI? Am I still scum for you or just not town?

That's not how that post reads to me, it reads like he knows he can get aggressive/tunnely and is trying his best to curb that behavior. He did something similar with me last game where he got aggressive with me then sort of backed off for not wanting to be tunneled on me.

I think you're town now. I was at a point where I was reevaluating my read on you, but I liked your sorting and analysis on the recent pages.

[AaronFrost]

Frost is still a relatively new player, and even one completed scum game is huge added experience for him.

One where I scumslipped and got lynched Day 1 though? Not really. All it would teach me is not to scumslip again.

[AaronFrost]

VOTE: Luca Blight

[AaronFrost]

I’m not sure if you see how silly your last sentence is - you’re arguing that you couldn’t have changed your play so much in one game, and then arguing that you wouldn’t do the same thing as the previous game. Which is it, then? You can’t have it both ways.

Way to not actually answer the question

You're basically doing the same thing, arguing that I'm scum based off of the trends you've seen from my previous scum games while also arguing that my play could've changed and improved since the last game. When I say my play wouldn't change in such a quick time, I'm talking about my OVERALL play. Like obviously I'm not going to play the EXACT same way but my tone and behavior would be similar to my previous scum games. You're taking an instance of ONE thing that I did in my last scum game and using it as definitive evidence while also arguing that my play could be different here.

A lot of your arguments are based around the idea of "Aaron COULD be doing x" instead of asking yourself "is Aaron doing x"

[AaronFrost]

Does Town!Frost really SR me for suspecting him here?

I’ve suspected him in literally every game we’ve played together. I feel like he’s following along with this argument of ‘playing differently so can’t he scum’ rather than actually believing in it.

That's not even why I suspect you dude, and I'm not even pushing that argument, that's insomnia and Ame pushing that argument.

I do believe I'm playing differently here than I did in Mini 2115 though, because I'm not scum this time, that's usually how that works.

[AaronFrost]

Your scum play in the lil Uzi large Normal was massively different from your first game as well, and that was a few weeks after.

And as I’ve said repeatedly, there is nothing you’ve done in this game that couldn’t have been easily faked. Your SR on me feels entirely like retaliation which I’ve only seen from Scum!Frost.

Yeah and I almost got lynched Day 1 in that game too until Flavor Leaf, my partner, came in and saved my ass. And again with the "This could be fake" argument instead of evaluating whether or not it's actually fake.

[AaronFrost]

Yesh let me think about this, but to be fair Luca was able to pocket me one time I doubt he will be sneaky enough to do it a second time

If Luca flips scum lynch this with fire. He still never explained why he townreads dsj even though I've asked him like twice, among other questions I've asked him that he's dodged (and this is generally a terrible argument for Luca being town).

[AaronFrost]

Can everyone who is not named Ame, insomnia or Luca please weigh in on this, otherwise the four of us are gonna keep going around in circles not accomplishing anything.

[AaronFrost]

Apologies for the inactivity, been stressed because of university and was not having a good mental health day yesterday. I'll be around later tonight.

[AaronFrost]

Alright I'm back. I mostly skimmed a lot of the pages that were just back and forth arguing

UNVOTE:

I think I believe Luca's mason claim. The TMIing as town makes more sense now.

That leaves a pool of {Karnage, Hectic, dsj} that we're almost guaranteed to hit at least one scum in.

VOTE: Karnage

[AaronFrost]

I don't see Karnage contributing any time soon so I'm fine with him being lynched although I think dsj is more likely to flip scum bc i sort of townread Wimpy.

Hectic I need to take a second look at.

[AaronFrost]

I think I believe Luca's mason claim. The TMIing as town makes more sense now.

The tmi'ing of flippy nips as town is what i meant to say here

[AaronFrost]

Alright I'm back. I mostly skimmed a lot of the pages that were just back and forth arguing

UNVOTE:

I think I believe Luca's mason claim. The TMIing as town makes more sense now.

That leaves a pool of {Karnage, Hectic, dsj} that we're almost guaranteed to hit at least one scum in.

VOTE: Karnage

Why not Clidd?

Oh I forgot about clidd, he can be in there too.

How do you read his locktowning Luca with the mason claim in mind?

[AaronFrost]

I still think insomnia is town honestly. I don't think scum gets that deathtunneled on a slot he knows to be town. I have my reservations about whether the mason claim could be faked, but that feels like a big risk to take even in a closed setup.

Karnage feels like a policy lynch, we'd get next to no info even if it flipped scum but if we need to compromise somewhere then I'll compromise there.

I'll need to review Hectic too because he's a big question mark for me. I feel like I can read him decently well most of the time but I don't have a solid read on him here.

[AaronFrost]

If both masons live to see lylo then I'll be really concerned about the claim but for now there's no reason not to believe it

[AaronFrost]

Who are your thoughts for insomnia's partner flips? I'm working on ISOing him and seeing what I can find.

[AaronFrost]

Does anyone here have experience with scum!insomnia? Is the the type of player who would fake a tunnel on his partner? Because if not then I think that spews Ame as town, as well as Karnage to a lesser extent.

[AaronFrost]

Insomnia

(5): Clidd,

Luca Blight

, Ame,

Emperor flippyNips

,

Insomnia

——— [EXECUTED]

Yeah I think this was an all town wagon too which would leave a pool of {me, Hectic, Karnage, dsj}

[AaronFrost]

He hammered himself to prevent his partner from hammering him. This would probably support Luca's hypothesis about the second scum being out of the wagon. Or, he thought he couldn't afford more time at that moment, as something might come up.

I think it's more likely he hammered himself because it was nearing the end of the day and he knew he wasn't escaping a lynch

[AaronFrost]

It's not the preferred situation for him, but there was about 12 hours left on the deadline when he was put at L-1. It would've been nearly impossible for him to turn the target on someone else, especially after the mason claims.

[AaronFrost]

It's not the preferred situation for him, but there was about 12 hours left on the deadline when he was put at L-1. It would've been nearly impossible for him to turn the target on someone else, especially after the mason claims.

But what's the advantage of hammering?

That's what I'm trying to figure out

[AaronFrost]

'' I didn't get that he selfvoted as a "trap". I'm sorry, clidd, but I never see self-voting like that as town-indicative. My first thought is always scum AtE. But maybe that's just how my brain is wired to never self-vote as any alignment if you want to win, so I just see it like that ''

- Hectic, Micro 915 (viewtopic.php?f=83&t=81863), post 1223.

That's it, I remembered.

Hectic locktown

.

Scum don't have daytalk (unless they have an encrypter that we don't know about) so if that's the case then scum!Hectic wouldn't be able to say to his buddy "hey don't self-hammer"

If Hectic's most recent scumgame is anything to go off of, he likes to distance from his partners and avoid drawing associations.

[AaronFrost]

I'm overthinking too much about how voracious Insomnia defended him. But, definitely, he would seem extremely suspicious with the argument against Luca, so even if Luca was lynched, Insomnia would be linked to Aaron the next day, so it would be quicker to conclude that the two were partners. This scenario would not make sense, considering the motivation of the deathtunnel was to distort possible reads about Aaron from then on.

If you want some insight into how I play scum,

First of all, I suck at it.

Second, I wouldn't just blatantly follow my partner onto whatever push they're doing, I'd try to look for another player to push which would give us as many mislynches as possible. Because if a Luca lynch did go through, it would be bad for the both of us.

[AaronFrost]

@Aaron

I think we should rush it cause this game will become pretty hard to read if one of us isn’t resolved quickly.

I want other people to weigh in on this

Why did you want other people to comment on this?

This was when the you vs. Wimpy thing happened right? I wanted others' opinions because Wimpy was trying to rush a lynch onto either himself or you, he was pushing that narrative HARD. I didn't want a lynch to be rushed leaving us with no info for the next day.

Aaron is trending down for seemingly not comprehending my sarcasm, which is just weird.

Sarcasm doesn't translate well over text, I don't get why that's AI.

It reveals to me that you weren't actually paying much attention to my posts. Can you walk me through your thought process when reading them? I'm particularly interested what you thought I meant when I was speaking of analyzing voice patterns.

I'll be honest, I had no idea what you were talking about. I was confused by a lot of your earlier posts and didn't realize they weren't meant to be taken seriously.

nippleflips

461 is pretty jarring with the knowledge that he replaced into a slot that insomnia was already scumreading in the referenced game.

What about this is jarring? This is suspicious to me because neither your or Insomnia's logic makes sense here.

It felt weird because in that game, somni was already scumreading the slot before flippynips replaced in, so he wasn't really scumreading flippynips there, he was scumreading his predecessor.

I don't get your point about my Ame read. I did reconsider it back when I said that Ame's page 9 was good and while her town equity was rising I'm also well aware scum would do everything in that situation to get themselves townread (or at least try to).

I don't get this either. If I were scum, why wouldn't I just play "obvtown" from the beginning?

You could, but if you're scum and under pressure from someone, the natural reaction is to try and act townier.

\The close-mindedness of Insomnia’s Luca/Flips push is so lazy and terrible that he’s probably scum.

This is the kind of statement that I almost never expect to come from town!Luca nor was insomnia pushing a Luca/flippynips team. He said it was a TMI read which implies that you both can't be scum together.

Why isn't this something you exected from town!Luca? Please elaborate thoroughly.

Having played with town!Luca a lot, I would expect a lot more analysis on insomnia's push other than "it's lazy and terrible and he's scum for it" but in hindsight it makes sense knowing that the two are masons.

It's not the preferred situation for him, but there was about 12 hours left on the deadline when he was put at L-1. It would've been nearly impossible for him to turn the target on someone else, especially after the mason claims.

But what's the advantage of hammering?

That's what I'm trying to figure out

You stated why you believed he hammered here:

He hammered himself to prevent his partner from hammering him. This would probably support Luca's hypothesis about the second scum being out of the wagon. Or, he thought he couldn't afford more time at that moment, as something might come up.

I think it's more likely he hammered himself because it was nearing the end of the day and he knew he wasn't escaping a lynch

Which implies that you have some reason behind why you think it's the case? What is that reason? What is the advantage of ending the day?

I didn't say that he did it specifically to end the day, I said he did it because the end of day was approaching and it's unrealistic to expect insomnia to get another lynch going on someone else when he's at L-1, which would also spew them as town if he tried.

[AaronFrost]

I'll do a reread tomorrow, in the meantime I have a midterm to study for tomorrow.

[AaronFrost]

If Hectic's most recent scumgame is anything to go off of, he likes to distance from his partners and avoid drawing associations.

Oh no

, I have non-negligible scum data now. You know I'm just gonna flip my playstyle every scum game now though, right?

I'd expect nothing less from you HecticMFHectic

[AaronFrost]

@Aaron what do you make of the way Somni treated you this game? What should we conclude from it?

Well it's obvious to me that he was trying to pocket me and he did a pretty good job of that honestly.

I'll be doing a full reread/analysis tomorrow and seeing what I can make from it.

[AaronFrost]

Hi I'm still here. Doing a reread/analysis now. Stay tuned

[AaronFrost]

Alright sorry this took so long for me to get to. Here's what I pickup up on upon a reread.

- insomnia pressured myself and Ame early on. I think in a setup with no daychat, it's possible that scum would fake pressure on their partner if they disapproved of their posting. This is something that should be discussed imo.
- He later turned the reads on both of us into townreads. Read into this how you will, but I'm trying to figure scum!somni's motivation for turning his reads around like that. I think he was trying to pocket me, but could his turn around on Ame indicate partnership?
- If he was distancing, it might have been with Wimpy. His play around the Wimpy slot feels like he was trying to avoid tunneling him. Could be that he disapproved of Ame's tunnel as well, but I think the way Wimpy played around him though doesn't indicate partnership.
- clidd insistence that insomnia is town is suspicious as well and he doesn't do much to support that read.
- dsj follow somni onto flippy. I could see scum!dsj voting with his buddy here/trying to protect him. Definitely looks buddyish.
- Hectic barely interacted with somni early in Day 1 which is weird, but the scum!Hectic I just witnessed in Micro 920 interacted with his buddies quite a bit so eh it's probably nothing.
- Gonna be upset is Ame was also trying to pocket me when I was getting pressured by Luca but I think her defense of me was genuine there.
- Luca/Ame/insomnia/me goes on for a literal eternity. Skimmed most of those pages on a reread.
- clidd voted insomnia even though he thought he was town what? I think Ame is town for the hop on in 1004, think she'd be a little more hesitant to vote him there is she was scum with him. Hectic's vote on Karnage after that was bleh as well.

Scumpool right now is {Hectic, dsj, clidd}, if this isn't right then throw Ame in there. Karnage I don't think is scum simply because of Wimpy's play around somni, and flippy is obviously conf town.

Shotgun reads from most likely town to least likely town

flippynips (conf town) > Ame > Karnage > Hectic> clidd > dsjstr

I have yet to read most of Day 2 I'll be doing that shortly.

[AaronFrost]

oh wow sweet pagetop

[AaronFrost]

Fuck you mean that was fast? I spent like almost 2 hours rereading the game.

[AaronFrost]

"Doing a reread," as in I am currently in the process of doing one. Yeah I was here.

What's up you need anything from me? I'm still reading through Day 2.

[AaronFrost]

Fuck really? Why? You're town right?

[AaronFrost]

Ok yeah moving clidd up to my top scumread if you flip town.

PEDIT: Cooooool

[AaronFrost]

Yeah actually I'm really feeling clidd!scum here. His reads have been so inconsistent today and he's just been all over the place.

PEDIT: Hi, native english speaker from the States here. In English, "they" is typically used as a gender neutral pronoun, which can definitely be strange if you don't know the language well. It is technically incorrect since "they" is usually referring to a group of people, but people also use it gender neutrally. English is a weird language man.

[AaronFrost]

This is real bad. Dang I misread both Somni and Aaron this game and fought Luca over it xD? Thank god Luca was so persistent.

Why on earth do you think you and insomnia being potential buddies is "something that should be talked about"

I asked earlier if anyone had meta on scum!insomnia and no one said anything about it. So yeah, I think it's worth discussing even if it's a scenario that involves scum!me.

And then you think somnis motivation for his switch could be indicative of his partner when you know it's not the case with yourself?

Because I know my alignment?

[AaronFrost]

I can also be self aware about how my interactions are perceived when I'm town. And if I'm scum why would I openly bring up a possible scenario involving me being scum, when you've seen that scum me would try to deflect the attention elsewhere?

[AaronFrost]

We could also do it popcorn style. dsj already claimed neighbors with Ame, so he should pick who he wants to go.

[AaronFrost]

Vanilla Townie. Popcorn Hectic

[AaronFrost]

Yeah because you were so confident in Ame being scum.

I'm thinking it might just be dsj. Like, doing some setup spec we have two masons, and two neighbors. Masons are guaranteed to be town, but neighbors don't know the alignment of anyone else in the hood (from experience, there's *usually* scum in the hood too).

[AaronFrost]

Like how likely is it that we have two town masons and two town neighbors? Scum would have to have like a PT cop or a traffic analyst to counter that.

dsj are you just a town neighbor or are you something else on top of that?

[AaronFrost]

Looking at the neighbor PT it really looked like Ame was trying to pocket me.

I want dsj to explain this further because him and Ame only had the pregame, and then Night 1 to talk to each other because there's no daytalk. So unless he's an encrypter, I'm not sure I buy this.

[AaronFrost]

Yeah because you were so confident in Ame being scum.

I'm thinking it might just be dsj. Like, doing some setup spec we have two masons, and two neighbors. Masons are guaranteed to be town, but neighbors don't know the alignment of anyone else in the hood (from experience, there's *usually* scum in the hood too).

Do you have any statistical basis that I can consult ?

Mini Normal 2115 had a three person hood, one of them was scum.
Large Normal 223 had a two person hood, one of them was a scum traitor.

I'm not saying that this is definitively the case, but it's an option we need to consider.

[AaronFrost]

Ame didn't conclude that Dsj was scum, why would you be right now ?

Because I'm not Ame?

[AaronFrost]

I think most games I've played with neighbourhoods have scum in them. I just believe Doro's townslip though. I mean, do you actually think that scum!Doro goes for the route where he pretends to think his neighbourhood was equivalent to a masonry? Maybe if insomnia coaches him to, but since they don't have daychat that's impossible.

Where was this "townslip"?

[AaronFrost]

He replaced out 3 times in his last 4 games:
viewtopic.php?f=83&t=82026
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=81277
viewtopic.php?f=83&t=81747

he was scum in 1, town in 2.

Since the other game is over I can mention this, he subbed out of a game I was modding about the same time he subbed out of this game, seems like he's siteflaked. It's NAI.

[AaronFrost]

This whole chaotic scenario, to me, makes sense if we were all towns arguing while Aaron sits watching the "fight", to see what direction it will take.

Can we stop pretending that activity is an indicator of alignment? I've been busy and real life comes before mafia. I've also been plenty active, especially Day 1.

Like by this logic, why would I be actively participating in the discussion with Luca/insomnia/Ame on the first day?

[AaronFrost]

Oh, I forgot about this lul. AaronFF, can you address 1395 and 1396? I agree with Ame that I don't get why you bring something up which has no use to you if you're town, but only helps others consider you as scum. Feels like you're being too open and looking like you're trying to consider all scenarios.

Yeah you just kinda answered your own question HecticMFHectic. I was trying to consider every angle and find out what the most likely scenario is. I even mentioned that is wasn't likely and was upset when Ame got lynched while I was catching up.

[AaronFrost]

It was twilight and Ame would have said if I was wrong.

I am regular neighbor and how do we know there is not a mafia cop?

No, she wouldn't have been able to, because you don't have daytalk.

We don't know there's a mafia cop, mafia could have a PT cop or a traffic analyst if you're town.

[AaronFrost]

Hey HecticMFHectic, talk to me about this.

Like how likely is it that we have two town masons and two town neighbors? Scum would have to have like a PT cop or a traffic analyst to counter that.

dsj are you just a town neighbor or are you something else on top of that?

[AaronFrost]

Good answer

[AaronFrost]

Can you admit it at once ? the timelines of today and yesterday are totally different.

Not sure what you want me to admit?

[AaronFrost]

But during twilight she could have denied that it looked like she was trying to pocket me but she did not, as town wouldn't she want to say something in order to help the town?

Besides trying to pocket you, which I'm ehh on right now, what other things did you talk about in the PT?

[AaronFrost]

Ok yeah moving clidd up to my top scumread if you flip town.

PEDIT: Cooooool

Which are your reads now ?

Scummiest to Towniest

dsj > clidd > Karnage > Hectic. Not super confident in this at the moment, but that's where I'm at.

That was more of a snap reaction to you hammering Ame, but also I do think it gives you +scum equity.

[AaronFrost]

Admit that you are guilty.

[AaronFrost]

You are assuming a very secure instance. For me, everyone who was in the Ame wagon are towns with me. It would make more sense not to vote so soon with Flippy idle. In this situation, the safest safe action awaits, before voting. Which is exactly what you did.

I didn't vote there because I didn't really want Ame lynched

[AaronFrost]

Also that

[AaronFrost]

Well not really catching up, moreso doing a reread

[AaronFrost]

Depends how person it is

[AaronFrost]

Depends how person it is

*personal

I can type

[AaronFrost]

So you knew that the wagon had switched on to Ame and you did not want to say anything to try and stop someone who you thought was town from getting lynched?

The hammer happened before I posted this so I had no time to switch it.

[AaronFrost]

Was there a moment since you entered the game when you really spoke the truth ?

In every single post I've made, all 120something of them.

[AaronFrost]

I am annoyed that you consult the number. If it were something so natural, it would not need a mathematical margin.

I mean the question itself was meaningless. Like how is that supposed to determine my alignment when of course I'm going to say "yes I'm telling the truth" no matter what?

[AaronFrost]

I think most games I've played with neighbourhoods have scum in them. I just believe Doro's townslip though. I mean, do you actually think that scum!Doro goes for the route where he pretends to think his neighbourhood was equivalent to a masonry? Maybe if insomnia coaches him to, but since they don't have daychat that's impossible.

Where was this "townslip"?

It's based on what Ame said where he thought both neighbours were town (equivalent to masons). If Doro is scum and was trying (and failing) to pocket Ame in the neighbourhood, maybe he employs this confusion strat where he says "oh, I just assumed neighbours were always town", but I think it's far more likely he was acutally just confused about how they worked based on his experience with mafia so far (no offence, Doro).

Hmm okay. Not sure I buy that as a true townslip, but I need to revisit dsj based on his play.

Which do you think is more likely setup-wise?

1) 2 town neighbors, 2 town masons, 1 scum PT cop
or
2) 2 town masons, 1 town neighbor and 1 scum neighbor

[AaronFrost]

AaronFFFF, why did you popcorn me to claim over any of the other 3 given these reads?

Because I love you HecticMFHectic <3

But also I'm not 100% confident in my reads right now so I didn't pick too much thought into who I popcorned.

[AaronFrost]

Hey HecticMFHectic, talk to me about this.

Like how likely is it that we have two town masons and two town neighbors? Scum would have to have like a PT cop or a traffic analyst to counter that.

dsj are you just a town neighbor or are you something else on top of that?

Yeah, I'd be very surprised if it was two mafia goons. I don't think two masons and two neighbours are balanced. But it depends on Doro's alignment. 2 neighbours are overall good for mafia I think if one of the neighbours is scum, but bad for them if both neighbours are town, because apparently most scum neighbourhoods result in scum pocketing their neighbour.

Since I think Doro is town, last scum maybe as rolecop or PT cop like you said? Why do you want to talk about this?

I'm trying to figure out what the most likely scenario is and I think having a decent idea of the setup will help me sort dsj.

[AaronFrost]

How is that a decent idea ? you know he is town.

I don't know shit

[AaronFrost]

And if I was scum I would not be faking a lack of confidence in my reads, I'd be trying to push someone.

PEDIT: I don't KNOW anything, dude.

[AaronFrost]

Could you answer this, AaronFF? THis is the biggest problem I have with you right now, I just want to understand your reasoning behind this from a town PoV

Because the scenario also involved a possibility of Ame!scum which is something I was considering for a while.

[AaronFrost]

This meta defense (which I guess is what you would call it) leaves a bad taste in my mouth

Okay but people were using my meta against me, so would you expect me to not use meta to defend myself in that case?

[AaronFrost]

AaronFF:

Hypothetically speaking, if you were scum, who would you kill last night?

Were you online to see Karnage's catchup? Did it look towny or scummy to you?

Due to

recent events

, I'm thinking you focusing on mechanics too much like in 1513 might be scum-indicative. Can you tell me what conclusions you've drawn from talking about this, and which you think is more likely now? Why didn't you consider a scenario where there could be a Mafia Neighbour PT Cop/Rolecop?

1) I'd kill you and try to push clidd since dsj would probably be more likely to mislynch him over you.

2) No I still haven't read it tbh, I want to go back and do that to see what his strongest reads were and who was pushing him.

3) I thought talking about it might help me figure out/rule out a potential scum candidate, and I think dsj surviving last night points towards him being a scum neighbor. Mafia Neighbor PT Cop seems kind of redundant to me but idk.

[AaronFrost]

Lul, you're overthinking this. It's 3 player LyLo so I'm going to question everything I can to make the best decision possible. I think it's very likely Aaron, mostly based on your slip because of the neighbourhood thing, but I'm still gonna question both of you to make sure.

I'm still not convinced that the slip was legitimate and I think you're putting way too much stock into it.

[AaronFrost]

I'm gonna do some ISOs shortly

[AaronFrost]

Spoiler: Hectic <3 ISO

o.k. insomnia, what should I have been focusing on there?

Careful poking the bear, insomnia. Wanna explain why his vote is wolfy before you enrage him?

Some generic back and forth between Hectic and insomnia which is sort of ehhh, Hectic never followed up on insomnia's 'scumread' of me either but he was also V/LA so meh

I actually think you have quite a courageous scum game play (or you are faking it well), this beating around the bush feeling I got from the push is definitely weird, I just interpreted that as scummy at face value but having *some* experience with you it'd probably be town indicative? Might dive into your meta.

So only ame's scum?

AaronFF is more reserved/less stance takey as scum from what I've seen.

Up to page 7 thoughts:
Ame's tone and not really panicking when on L-1 feels towny, but her internal thought process is all over the place on stuff like moving Luca from town to scum, or voting for insomnia after describing him as almost locktown.
211 is really towny though. Hard for scum to fabricate a flowing thought process like that.

These two might be + town? I don't think scum!Hectic would try to discredit his partner's reads this early into the game

Gave it a brief read, and I think Somni's play here is mostly consistent with his play there. The attack on Luca is similar to the one on Chara at the EoD 1. Curious to hear why you think he's behaving differently here, Luca.

Soft defense of insomnia but doesn't actually elaborate on a read here (assuming it's a townread based on similar play to his towngame) but that's kinda shallow (ironic coming from me, I know)

Lul, what did I miss? 1v1s on mafiascum are always the highlight and simultaneously the most painful things to read on this site. One day, I might even be in one of these.

This kinda reads like he doesn't really care about the 1v1 between insomnia/Luca which might be + partner equity on the surface but Hectic isn't someone I'd expect to be involved in 1v1s either. Probably NAI.

So Luca and Flippo are masons. We wait for Flippo to corroborate the claim before we lynch, though it's probably not necessary. I keep zoning out while trying to read through this 1v1 and keeping up with flow of events (didn't get a lot of sleep), but I'm townreading Insomnia's tone unless he has a really strong AtE game as scum. For the record, I've played with him once before (he was scum), and he was a lot more calm/composed and less spotlight grabbing, that game was half year ago though.

Another defense of insomnia, but I think this one comes from a place of legitimately thinking insomnia was town, specifically by bringing up the difference between his towngame and scumgame.

I think insomnia probably hammered to avoid his partner giving away any more info, due to the lack of day chat, and maybe the partner trying to defend a lost cause which would make them look really bad today.
I think it actually points towards a couple of people more than others but I might be reading too much into it.

Kind of mirrors my thoughts on insomnia's self hammer

Listen to me, Doro; I'm on

your

side here. Outside, there's people out there to get you that are capable of very bad things, but I REALLY do sympathise with you. If you help me; I can help you, and we'll get through this together, buddy.

This reeks of a pocket attempt upon a second glance. A lot of his interactions with dsj after this feel like pocketing too, if so then it makes a lot of sense that Hectic/dsj are both alive in 3p lylo.

You know what, let's give this a spin. VOTE: Ame

You've felt opportunistic today, Ame. I think you were hoping some of us would latch onto your Doro scumread with how you were pushing it earlier, but now choose to evaporate it into thin air when no one does.

This vote is icky, and something definitely is off with the hood thing. I'll talk about this shortly.

Overall, a worse ISO than I actually remembered it being. A lot of the interactions with insomnia are things that can easily be faked, and there seems like an attempt to pocket dsj who's a somewhat newer player, something that can easily be pulled off. Need to reevaluate the "hood slip" situation. Gonna ISO dsj/Creative.

[AaronFrost]

Spoiler: Creative/dsj

Nothing of note in Creative's ISO. Moving along...

It could be clidd/Insomnnia Hectic/Insomnia, I think we just have to lynch Insomnia

This came after the mason claim, this was also the slot's first mention of insomnia despite him being one of the highest posters. Not a good first interaction, especially since he never follows through with lynching insomnia. Not a good look.

Oh cool that was his only interaction with insomnia ever. Nice.

Time to evaluate that slip, because I think I noticed an inconsistency wrt it.

I can tell you I had no idea that heighbors could be mafia, let me check the VC so I don't accidentally hammer you.

Here he admits that he didn't know neighbors could be scum and assumed it was the same thing as masons.

I never said mason = neighbor that is what Ame said.

Ame was the first person to talk about our neighbor night PM and was also the one to say that I didn't know the difference between neighbor and mason. Why would I assume I am in a chat with someone on the opposite team.

Found the inconsistencies.

In these he's saying that Ame was the one who thought that the neighbors = masons, when it's clear that he didn't know either (or was faking not knowing). He was trying to twist it onto Ame and ended up getting her lynched.

Why didn't you say anything to me when we were in private? Why wait to put me on blast in front of everyone? If I am town does that mean you are mafia?

You never responded to me in private and if I waited until tonight, you could kill me before I had a chance to express my concerns to town.

And no we could very much both be town. But the idea that we would be confirmed town to each other is absurd when there are already masons. What did you think was the difference between masons and neighbors?

This is kinda interesting, here she says that dsj never talked in the hood, which is a little fishy to me. Why not interact with Ame more in the neighborhood, especially if he thought that the hoods were all town originally. This is kind of fishy play for someone who thinks it works like a masonry

[AaronFrost]

Lul, the "pocketing" on Doro was me RPing good cop, bad cop with Ame while questioning him.

My reasoning for townreading Doro's hood slip is as follows:
-It's a very strange route to choose for a newbie scum player, it's suicidal on the surface and requires a lot of confidence to sell. Doro didn't give me that impression with his scumgame in Wolf Among Us.
-Somni couldn't have coached him to do it without daychat.
-Ame also seemed convinced Doro was town, and she was actually the one in the hood with him.

I guess I shouldn't define it as a "slip". It's basically just something I see which is very unlikely to come from scum.

What are you currently at for me/Doro as scum percentage-wise, AaronFF?

Right now I'm at Hectic (35%)/dsj (65%)

It is a little strange that he thought that, but his play is also SUPER weird for someone who thought the hood was a masonry. It may not even be something that somni necessarily coached him into doing, could've been a panic reaction.

[AaronFrost]

1) I'd kill you and try to push clidd since dsj would probably be more likely to mislynch him over you.

This... does make some sense actually. I'm confused why you bring Doro and I into LyLo who townread each other. Or you're bathing us in WIFOM grumble grumble

Hectic you know I'm a logical player who hates WIFOM with a burning passion

[AaronFrost]

Prepare for 50 gifs then

[AaronFrost]

I never said mason = neighbor that is what Ame said.

Ame was the first person to talk about our neighbor night PM and was also the one to say that I didn't know the difference between neighbor and mason. Why would I assume I am in a chat with someone on the opposite team.

He said that Ame said mason = neighbor, then in the next one he's saying that Ame said that he said that he thought mason = neighbor. Maybe I am misinterpreting it, the sentence is a little weird structure-wise.

The part that feels weird to me is that Ame claimed in 1188 (to lazy to link to it) that dsj never responded in the hood, and I have to assume Ame is telling the truth since she was town. Not talking to Ame despite thinking that they were mason is really sketchy to me.

[AaronFrost]

AaronFF:

Hypothetically speaking, if you were scum, who would you kill last night?

Were you online to see Karnage's catchup? Did it look towny or scummy to you?

Due to

recent events

, I'm thinking you focusing on mechanics too much like in 1513 might be scum-indicative. Can you tell me what conclusions you've drawn from talking about this, and which you think is more likely now? Why didn't you consider a scenario where there could be a Mafia Neighbour PT Cop/Rolecop?

1) I'd kill you and try to push clidd since dsj would probably be more likely to

mislynch

him over you.

2) No I still haven't read it tbh, I want to go back and do that to see what his strongest reads were and who was pushing him.

3) I thought talking about it might help me figure out/rule out a potential scum candidate, and I think dsj surviving last night points towards him being a scum neighbor. Mafia Neighbor PT Cop seems kind of redundant to me but idk.

Look at the word I underlined, this seems like a confession to me

But asking what we would do as scum is a leading question

Look at his question again, he asked in a hypothetical scenario where I'm scum, and in that scenario, you're a mislynch I can push.

[AaronFrost]

3a. You stated something along the lines of "should we out if Luca doesn't die." Why would Luca being NKed or not be relevant as to whether or not neighbors claimed?

Ame, from what you talked about in this private chat, did you manage to conclude anything about Dsj's behavior ?

How has Doro interacted with you in the neighbourhood, Ame? Have you felt like he's tried to pocket you?

I'd extend the same question to Doro (Do you think Ame was trying to pocket you in there?).

He only asked me my thoughts on Clidd and the fact that no one found him (dsj) suspicious. He also asked me if we should claim if Luca died. I don't see the reasoning behind this and the way he phrased it makes me feel he only asked me it to make it seem like he didn't know if Luca was for sure going to die

I just took a quick skim of his ISO and found these two

You never addressed these though, why would Luca's NK effect whether or not you claimed?

[AaronFrost]

dsj: "Why didn't you say anything to me in private"
Ame: "You never responded to me in private"

Which is it?

[AaronFrost]

Alright well now I'm at dsj (80%) Hectic (20%) based on this last page alone.

Hectic is feeling really genuine lately, and if he's scum he's doing a good job faking it. In a lylo with no conf towns, it's perfectly reasonable for Hectic to consider scenarios where both me and dsj are scum.

[AaronFrost]

You two fight it out now

I'm getting my popcorn ready

So in a lylo with no conf towns, you're just gonna watch me/Hectic go at it and wait for one of us to vote the other so you can quickhammer for the win?

[AaronFrost]

What exactly do you think me and Hectic have to fight about anyways?

[AaronFrost]

My gut is still telling me its Hectic

sike

VOTE: aaron

UNVOTE:

idk

Nice reaction test

[AaronFrost]

Aaron did insomnia ever communicate with you?

As you said he only spoke to me once, I would have tried to communicate with him. You can look back at the puppers among us, I communicated with Doctor Drew, you both still might not even know that

Yeah he went after me for a bit before townreading me.

The difference here is that you would've been able to talk to him at night so you don't need to like send signals to each other when you'll be able to talk to each other. If you're scum then you probably weren't expecting his flashwagon at the end of D1.

[AaronFrost]

Lul, I was here for that Doro

bummer you were a few minutes late

Nah, there was a small time frame where I refreshed and saw the vote before you unvoted. I know saying this serves nothing and there's no way to prove it, but I'm just saying

Why bring this up?

[AaronFrost]

I have to leave for now I'll be on later tonight tho (EST)

[AaronFrost]

~5 hours or so

[AaronFrost]

I think I'm in agreement on it being dsj though

[AaronFrost]

Oh fuck me

[AaronFrost]

Nah. I'm leaning you right now, but I need to mull over everything and reread before I decide.

[AaronFrost]

I'm not trying to make any hasty decisions. I'll reread and possibly make up my mind tonight.

[AaronFrost]

HecticMFFFFFFHectic I love you man but chill out.

Here's what I need, you've each done a good enough job scumcasing each other, but neither of you have towncasee yourself. So, hit me with your best self towncase.

[AaronFrost]

I dont have a great track record with lylos as town. In face the last LyLo I was in as town also had Hectic in it lol.

Hectic if I was 100% confident it was dsj I'd vote him right now but I'm not and there's a chance I'm wrong on you. That's why I want you each to town case yourselves.

PEDIT: Yeah basically, I want to see how your approach to this game comes from a town perspective > a scum perspective.

[AaronFrost]

Wimpy was also really against insomnia, that was also a stupid lynch

[/v]Aaron[/v]

Voting you here if he's town is a guaranteed loss. Because if I'm scum, I hammer you. If you're scum, you hammer him because I was voting him

This is literally a scumclaim

@Hectic:

can you explain why this is a scumclaim, because I'm not sure I see it.

@dsj:

were you actually trying to vote me here or was this another "reaction test?"

[AaronFrost]

This is the main thing. From a town PoV, if two people including yourself are simultaneously voted, then you are guaranteed to lose because either other player has someone to hammer and win as scum.

Doro failed to realise this and made the vote anyway because he's scum. This is so obviously scum, AaronFFFF

Oh nevermind you did explain this

[AaronFrost]

This is the main thing. From a town PoV, if two people including yourself are simultaneously voted, then you are guaranteed to lose because either other player has someone to hammer and win as scum.

Doro failed to realise this and made the vote anyway because he's scum. This is so obviously scum, AaronFFFF

Oh nevermind you did explain this

You're talking about his suddent vote on me right (that probably wouldn't have counted as a vote since he screwed up the vote tags)?

Okay then yeah I see where this comes from. Because he should know I'm town now based off of me not quickhammering when I had the opportunity. So from his point of view, you have to be scum which means voting me is a loss. I'm trying to figure out if that was some sort of reaction test though since he unvoted immediately after.

[AaronFrost]

Btw, you haven't even tried to explain how your vote for Aaron while I was voting for you isn't a scumclaim. It guarantees a loss if you're town, and you failed to see that because you're not.

I want this explained too before I make up my mind

[AaronFrost]

I hate lylo dude

[AaronFrost]

TRUST ME AARON

[AaronFrost]

VOTE: dsjstr

Hectic if it's you then you played well

[AaronFrost]

Did I get it right?

[AaronFrost]

Sorry, I was scum, man <3

Definitely not trolling right now.

Dammit

Oh well, you played good

[AaronFrost]

I think I made it harder than necessary for myself today. Probably should've capitalised on Doro being confident on you being scum rather than poked him.

This is actually why I thought you were town because I figured the easiest route for scum!Hectic was to push me and get dsj on your side

[AaronFrost]

Well at least I'm good at setup spec