Mini Normal 2160 | FIA Group B | Endgame

[the worst]

IV is steadily drip-injecting solve energy into the thread yeah
also agree that PoE is unlikely game winning

[the worst]

elements is like Very Chilled but gets easier to read later
sorry that's not super useful
him being ~whimsical~/kinda having his own pace wrt catching up isn't scum indicative

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ah well, it was fun while it lasted.

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this game is gonna be juicy, i can feel it.

[the worst]

this game is gonna be juicy, i can feel it.

can u kill me early this time instead of making me suffer until lylo thx

*slips gun into pocket*
sorry repeat that?

this game is gonna be juicy, i can feel it.

But do you really want it to be spicy AND juicy at the same time? Sounds unpleasent.
Spicy juices everywhere....people screaming..."MY EYES, IT BURNS!"...I've got to put a stop to that.

juiced cayennes!

I have this idea I've been thinking about since yesterday.
But the problem is that I'm indecisive.

say it i dare u

[the worst]

You know what would fit well with a solve of TW/BILLY?
...BULLY!

billy/TFED/me would be wild.

[the worst]

We could quasi-leash Nep.
I'm not even sure if that's a thing that works.

But if they want to actually help town, they'd first have to promise that they can actually produce a result/actions that can be confirmed and/or is visible to other players as well.
Then we'd discuss a pool of say three(?) players, and they can choose whichever of the three they like, or think their role fits the best for.
In the case where they aren't killed N1, we can discuss the result and whether or not anything happened to the three players in that pool.

This way we MIGHT be able to close out the scenario where scum!Nep can pick&choose an optimal scenario with their teammates, and we might force their hand in who to kill/block etc.
I have a good reason to think this might work out the best for us.

Thoughts?

this is the only idea which is substantially worse than bullying nep into fullclaiming imo

[the worst]

if she's scum she has a blank canvas to claim with. her picture needs to be very good, or we elim her.
you are suggesting turning that into a choose your own adventure.

please tell me you see how that's a problem

[the worst]

except that it restricts the confines of their narrative
which makes it easier for them to throw us an Adequate narrative

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it's like, dubiously-better for us to gate scum!nep fakeclaiming ~mysterious tpr~
it's substantially better for us to create a world where scum need to deal with actual tpr nep

[the worst]

so is duckie-town.

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except that it restricts the confines of their narrative
which makes it easier for them to throw us an Adequate narrative

Does it though?
I mean, they'd still have to "guess" a claim and action that isn't called out as a lie straight out of the gates.
Plus they still shouldn't have too much information on what the whole setup is like, so they might also scew up their claim in that regard.

for competent scum, god yes
your plan literally tells scum!nep how to structure her fakeclaim

[the worst]

Same if their claimed target is found dead in the morning.
"Bad luck" with a fully open-ended claim doesn't exist.

bang

thank you

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postgame it tbh

[the worst]

you're forgiven.
do you think asking nep to 30% claim then gating an unclaimed ~mystery tpr~ is a good idea?

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that's fine, i'm not surprised we have differing views of that; i think it's strictly better to shelve this til postgame.

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v/la until funday

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oh every day is funday
hi guys

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that is correct

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did I ignore you?

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hey all. I think it's obvious that I'm a viable elimination today so I think it's only appropriate that I claim

[the worst]

I claim town.

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@worst and una another question here: I don’t really follow the PR/setup spec stuff in gneeral for closed games, but I’m interested in your thoughts on each other’s suggestions/if there is anything AI or scum/town!motivated in particular

what specifically do Yiu want my thoughts on sorry? I'm literally not going to talk about pr strategy in detail on d1

[the worst]

like I want to know if this felt like:

objective TvT discussion of theory
Objective TvS discussion of theory
Scum motivated TvS discussion of theory

or if other people want to comment SvS theatre of theory interaction (imo doesn’t feel like it?)

oh
idrc
I don't think una is openwolfing
I think he believes he's saying the right thongs

[the worst]

I think we should be more wary of S_S. But this is a strong gut feeling more than anything.

I know what you are thinking and I get this feeling too

but Lilith is literally so confident on that slot despite being paranoid of everyone else and I know better than to ignore that

you realise they're scum together right? that's the whole punchline

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do you think there is scum!incentive to hide behind the radio thing as a gimmick to be null/unreadable/get a pass for D1?

It obviously wasn't planned as a scum strategy from the get-go. So i think he'd play to his gimmick regardless of what role pm he get's at first.

and is it more likely for town or scum!Elements to drop the gimmick and start playing for real?

He did alt-slip in game which shall not be mentioned. I'm going to check if that's when he stopped doing it.

yes

indifferent / maybe slightly? town

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SS/lilith

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@worsty you think Elements slot leans town? when can we start reading this slot

maybe; I think he's pretty null rn. we can probably read him when he Does More Things.

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Its as if youre a new player joining the thread every time you make a case to change your vote
@tw were you the one who said something like this about norwee

that's far too smart for me but it's not wrong

why aren't you pushing me harder btw?

[the worst]

It seem like you're adamant, who do you think would be scum with me?

Pookie what’s so funny.

"If I flip town" looks like a perspective slip but like. in a way that's too goofy to actually be a reliable perspective slip. I thought it was funny too.

[the worst]

I'm not going to offer to tuck you in.

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80% of what I say is nonsense and the rest is always completely correct without fail

[the worst]

blueberries fly north for winter

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blueberries fly north for winter

African or European bueberries?

eight. nice comeback.

I think we may have townread sausage for slightly silly reasons and I'm hoping I'll be around later to Effort this

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I agree. Let’s consolidate on someone that’s not me/Billy/Foureyes/NM.

lilith, sausage, una, ducky

two town, two slots who I actually strongly think are worth revisiting
not bad

[the worst]

I agree. Let’s consolidate on someone that’s not me/Billy/Foureyes/NM.

lilith, sausage, una, ducky

two town, two slots who I actually strongly think are worth revisiting
not bad

in a sandwich like fasion?

yup, sausage and lettuce (venausar) in the middle

[the worst]

Am I that two dimensional,,,,, aahajhhh

[the worst]

I think we almost need that cheesy MU copypasta here. We're just gonna end D1 by eliminating someone perceived to be in the lower half of the plist skill/winrate wise who doesn't know how to navigate the claim atmosphere. I don't think this game is tidily solvable D1 and I agree the PoE is currently kind of shitty but I think we're doing a fairly awful job of establishing who the deepwolf/ves are.

Nep is still scummy but is very unlikely to die today
If we don't have ANY scum in the PoE: where have we gone wrong?

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now I need a sausage copypasta

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now that I've caught you you are going to have to deal with me for the entire day 1 until your team inevitably kills me because im the brilliant player

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the solve probly is just ducky/norwee/billy

this like, *might* have exactly 1 scum in it but probably has 0. try again for me? ;-; I want you to be town

[the worst]

I now feel like IV is more town than Pooky and it’s really wild.

IV shouldddddd be town here yeah or I'm really bad at reading him suddenly

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water dispenser would be a fine elim except I like their Billy townread.
Lavart_Mafia only scum it with four eyed (which is like, a fine solve)

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I'm the deepwolf, of course I'm inflating my postcount.

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I kind of thrive when I have partner/s who are able to go deep and I can just knock things off the shelf for a bit until I'm caught yeah

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doesn't stop me from being town this game sorey

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there's pretty much nothing more boring than playing deepwolf

You have to make your own fun imo

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I kind of thrive when I have partner/s who are able to go deep and I can just knock things off the shelf for a bit until I'm caught yeah

Yeah, shitposter+logical bruiser is the best team combo.

s- stop looking at me like that >_>

[the worst]

I love useless innocent childs how about you.

don't even go there I'm so upset

having played with scum TW

he's definitely the tank who draws aggro on the scum team

this is hilariously astute. I have some old crappy dps gear too but I've forgotten my ability rotations.

[the worst]

we could proceed on the basis that {Lilith, SS, IV, billy} contains zero scum and just try to win this game vanilla style :0

[the worst]

hi Nep check the vc.

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why are you selectively ignoring my posts and flailing at me for attempting to solve :u

[the worst]

We're just gonna end D1 by eliminating someone perceived to be in the lower half of the plist skill/winrate wise who doesn't know how to navigate the claim atmosphere. I don't think this game is tidily solvable D1 and I agree the PoE is currently kind of shitty but I think we're doing a fairly awful job of establishing who the deepwolf/ves are.

this reads like a joke because I'm hilarious but it is not a joke.

[the worst]

the worst

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You don't elim for deepwolves but you account for deepwolves. always. shitty townreads are still shitty even if it's D1.

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I am sorry for getting mad lets be friends again

still love u

i'm not really sure sausage was actually.. sorting so much as pushing things and being noisy?..... his takes were consistently a bit lukewarm and they're kinda still the LHF players we're pushing at the end of the day. the main ""towny"" thing he did was respond well to my shitty push and i'm not really sure scum!sausage struggles to respond to a shitty push.

innocentvillager is fine.

TheFourEyedDude is whatever.

Waterdispenser doesn't exist.

Zombie Apocalypse should start playing more post-d1

Billy Pilgrim is kinda towny

UnaBombaH is ? towny ? probably ? i don't know if he'll ever break scumrange d1 and i'm really uncomfortable that he's struggling so much to commit to something atm

NorwegianboyEE is kind of, hard to read here and probably fine to kill, idrc

you (nep) are still relatively underwhelming but i'm finding 4EG a lot LESS whelming in a "claim tpr then

x

" context; i doubt that you're both scum just via probability and the flow of the part of the phase when you both claimed but i really feel like there's scum in you.

the worst is clearly the deepwolf

Something_Smart is probably town

Not_Mafia is like, maybe town, lavar was towny, i think i'm only paranoid about this because i don't feel comfortable about 4EG

lilith2013 really should be town


{tw}
{ss, lilith, iv > bilpil}
{nm*}
{nep, 4eg, una, sausage} <== highest tier that should a deepwolf
{nor, wdisp, zombapoc}

*conditional that if 4eg is scum this should be reevaluated lategame

i'm actively aware the bottom tier is just, players who i think the world won't end if we eliminate, not actually People Who Are Pushing a Scum Agenda. i'd feel fine if i felt like i am closer to an accurate poe. but i'm not comfortable about 7/13 players and the eighth i'm kinda...paranoid of because i'm not sure about 4EG. x:

[the worst]

i waffled on you for quite a while but i started liking u a lot sometime in the last few pages

[the worst]

hnerejjehfjejfnnmrmmrmmmrmmmmmm
VOTE: nor

Hey ducky, you read una's post the same way that I did. Do you buy that his progression on me is real? Because shortly after that I dropped to one of his top two scumreads. Now Norweej also had some strange progressions wrt my slot so im comfortable voting there, but I'm a bit scared of una at the moment.

sure, i'm actually reading you very similarly.

i think you've asked questions you would as town (i often really struggle to accurately parse your thought process @ sod1 because we approach solving very differently). i also am not surprised in a plist of big!!! noisy!!!!!! players!!!!!!!!! that you've dropped into the poe, and i also don't think you've done anything outside of your ~scumrange~.

the more you post the more i'm like, sure. it wouldn't blow my mind if this is town billy getting started. but i also don't really townread you.

i hope this makes sense, but yeah, i didn't bat an eyelid @ una's progression on you.

gotcha, could you talk through what has like impressed you/disinterested you/whatever from una

Ducky I know my catchup got broken up but what about Una's progression on my slot. You seem to be pushing town!una hard and I had that early, but his flip on my slot didn't seem to be influenced by anything.

his flip on your slot didn't bother me a whole bunch, sorry.

VOTE: Pooky

I know this is a stretch but bear with me. Saudade was posting good, like real good, and way outside their normal style. But what if they saw this Playlist and decided to actually play? And yeah, that's not a case, but i feel like Pooky had a high shade ratio in their posts and they aren't backing it up with votes. Hell he literally told someone else to case me while he wasn't voting me. That feels scummy.

Also, given that the consensus poe is pretty tight and it has me in it and I know im town, one of these consensus townreads has to be wrong and at the minute my money is on the bear.

starting here u've trended upwards

[the worst]

i'll laugh if like, scum are gearing to quickhammer and they're frantically trying to coordinate something in the scum pt lmao

the worst is clearly the deepwolf

no why do i get this vibe worsty are you doing this again

don't worry, my posting this game isn't funny enough to be situational irony.

VOTE: Billy Pilgrim

can someone explain to me how Billy is towning it up the last few pages? All I see is him suspecting people off his wagon/moving off (like me) and whiteknighting people voting for him and questioning why people think he's town? this feels more consistent with a scum!mindset trying to wifom his way out and i don't really genuinely see the townie mindset of "literally wanting to die"

scum are: trying to survive; trying to mis-elim townies.
a vt is: not necessarily motivated by survival; is trying to kill the scums first.

as he gets closer to being eliminated billy seems *less* interested in staying alive, and more interested in sincerely assessing the players who are pushing him and posting around him. i don't even think he's trying to signal/seem like he doesn't care about surviving, in some like, attempt to appear towny. it feels like he's genuinely comfortable with being today's elim as long as he gets to say his piece first and it doesn't compromise TPRs. that's a town mindset i think.

also doubt scum in his shoes cycle through the super unpopular hot takes of scum!pooky / scum!una

[the worst]

also doubt scum in his shoes cycle through the super unpopular hot takes of scum!pooky / scum!una

This pretty much sums up my take on Billy as well.
They could've used a ton of different avenues to try and squirm off of the pressure as scum here, but instead they are throwing around soft punches towards slots that are not at all likely to be counterwagons.
I do not think having a "defeatist" mindset is necessarily AI, but I'd assume scum would still be pushing for counterwagons around him.

yeah i agree. scum!bilpilz isn't incentivised to throw shade while he's going down (the level of content in his posting is going UP which is the opposite of what you'd expect from anti-spew scum). i still don't think he's doing all this because he knows it looks good and he wants to survive til endgame. ergo my poe i think he's doing it because it's his wincon

damn we're good una, i hope we're both town

[the worst]

oh oh una i paraphrased you yesterday

Tangentially, you reminded me of my first newbie game. I was town, but really struggled with committing to my townreads because I always had that fear, like what if I'm wrong and look silly?

I'm not sure if that's exactly what happened with the Andres read flip situation, but I feel like the feedback I got from my first ever game applies at some level: don't be scared to be more liberal with your townreads.

<3

[the worst]

the context was a bit different. but this was a newbie who caved in on a strong townread he had very quickly, which i mistook for miselim opportunism. when he flipped town i flashed back to that piece of advice :p

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VOTE: nor

[the worst]

I refuse to be norwee on this blessed day.

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i am a Bit nervous SS hasn't engaged with this EOD but also don't really know what i'd expect SS to do.

[the worst]

I just returned from V/LA, I'm sorry. I totally neglected to check the deadline before I left.

right. that makes even more sense.

[the worst]

even if norweeb flips red i'm doing an appreciation page.

[the worst]

scum irl.

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hmm do we use the rest of this page in honour of pooky

[the worst]

or in honour of norwegianboyee
DECISIONS DECISIONS

[the worst]

How come I never got an appreciation page after you killed me???

i needed to diffuse the tension a bit in the last game, i'm not all that interested in gamestate tone manipulation here

[the worst]

What makes you think I have a result

could you please explain what you were doing last night if you don't have a result?

[the worst]

You are a visionary tw

i'm fucking magical.

[the worst]

why did you try to track una last night?

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LMFAO i misread pooky's role as town roleblocker and i was going through this downward spiral of madness

VOTE: zombapoc

[the worst]

No, vote Nepenthes, she is lying about her result.

if u have a guilty get ur ass out here

idc if we need to outright fucking massclaim d2 to get a guilty
i'll take the guilty

[the worst]

man i'm not having a good day.

i assume una isn't claiming ascetic?

[the worst]

????

You should be able to mindmeld with me here. I wouldn't come out of the gate voting someone unless I was damn confident.

why zombie specifically?

one way to find out, right~?

[the worst]

Fullclaim unmodified tracker I targeted Una, got no result, just to be clear

I dont think scum Una sacs himself like this to get me miselimmed tbh Idk about the benefits to that when Im already in a bad position
But also god it feels so convenient
Which is probably how my no result looks from the outside too so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

: (

[the worst]

why did you rolestop nepenthes?

They claimed a PR.
In the case they were town, I wanted for them to be able to prove their role.

fwiw i thought this was intuitive. if you were claiming rolestopper with any other target i would have roasted you.

[the worst]

targeting a claimed pr who needs to prove their pr status is like objectively the highest utility of a rolestop of all time

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sorrye

pedit: i am starting to get a similar impression and also literally fell out of my chair when i saw you voting right off the start of the day.

[the worst]

don't forget alienzs are a thing. i really wanna see more aliums in normals.

[the worst]

he can be slow burn-y but he's not like..... in neutral

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i mean, yeah, i'm more convinced of you either {rolestopped nep, decided that fakeclaiming a rolestop on nep was a good idea} than i am by like. anything else in this game.

[the worst]

; )

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but yes, less smart-ass: that's a very believable claim, even without the crusty breadcrumbs.

[the worst]

Ok then, now that you have acknowledged that, you still think we go Zombie today S_S?

Yeah, I don't doubt you. I just think that with two equally good suspects we might as well leave the PR claim alive an extra day.

ditto.

[the worst]

I can't believe it's still night one

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he can be slow burn-y but he's not like..... in neutral

what does this mean?

You can take a while to get going with your reads but you feel too slow this game.

[the worst]

masterpiece

it was but what are you like.. claiming

[the worst]

I'm a rolestopper, and targeted Nep last night.
So there's that.
I have modifiers that I'm not going to out yet so that scum can't abuse it, but I've said enough for reasonable people to see where I'm coming from.

The only way Nep could've been roleblocked, is if I was roleblocked first, and then they were roleblocked separately.
So nope.

This is like really strong reasoning and literally the only way that Una could know Nep wasn't roleblocked.

Are we entitled to know the order of operations as far as resolving conflicts in roles mod? Because if so id like to kmow it. E.g. it seems hard for me to believe that roleblock would ever resolve before rolestop or else it weakens the rolestop and if that is true, then we know Nep is lying because Una can't be blocked at that point.

And if rolestop resolved before roleblock then there has to be at least 1 scum in Nep/Una. I mean its already pretty unlikely that there's 0 given that ut means either a jailkeep situation or 2 scum roleblockers.

it's a normal game so NAR should settle conflicts if there's a conflict
if multiple roles can resolve mutually they should resolve

[the worst]

No, vote Nepenthes, she is lying about her result.

if u have a guilty get ur ass out here

idc if we need to outright fucking massclaim d2 to get a guilty
i'll take the guilty

He explained it already. Why did you vote outside it? Do you catchup like me because it was like posts before this?

I was at work and missed the post

I wanted to

I already explained when I started loving you

[the worst]

Una Rolestop also functions as a doctor
Why didnt you use it for that

Wait, how do you know it functions like a doctor, the wiki isn't clear on that and says its possible that it does but not necessary.

normal games (pretend this is in rainbow text)

[the worst]

guess who's gonna wait for zombapoc to fullclaim
THIS GUY

[the worst]

good claim
VOTE: Nep

[the worst]

good soft/crumb, I should say

[the worst]

we don't have enough VTs LOL clears are gonna be tough
do we massclaim and gate zombapoc~~

[the worst]

Since with a hard pr claim I'm not drawing the night lol with my heavy cringing, I'll just out myself.

Informed townie N_M, and previously Lavar, is town. That's my usefulness. Elim me to make N_M IC, I guess.

Oh this meshes pretty well with my previous ~big brain guess~

what was this about Lilith? I think I know but I'm dumb so please go easy on me

[the worst]

do I reveal my results then
presumably not because that'll give scum better chance of hitting PRs?

basically this; scum should be fucking close to knowing the full setup atp. I think massclaim & trying to just break the setup's knees with reads is probably optimal but I'm also fine with you just clearing people who are run up and claim VT

[the worst]

mmmmmm should have something manipulative because there's ftc in this setup

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@sausage/Pooky goddamn you for getting your dumb asses killed n1. your result was probably the difference between breaking and not breaking this game. aaaarghhhh!!!!!

[the worst]

ftc?

follow the cop, a protective + a role which gets clears

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explain pls iv

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very up to date

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I figured that's what you were angling at but wanted to b sure

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bc it stuck out in my mind that I should come back and ask u later

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VOTE: zombie

why?

yup Nep is town ez

why?

I guess una is town too

why>

[the worst]

so tilted

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we have a flipped ungated town investigative and another claimed investigative. why is nep the town one fypov?
rolestopper is a cool role but why is una town fypov?
are you scumreading zombie or just sheeping SS?

[the worst]

hi JOYED i'm trying to elim you once again
once again i'm town
i hope you're having a lovely day

[the worst]

VOTE: PlusJOYEDVOTE: PlusJOYEDVOTE: PlusJOYEDVOTE: PlusJOYEDVOTE: PlusJOYEDVOTE: PlusJOYEDVOTE: PlusJOYED

[the worst]

worst ur triggering my hedgehog ptsd and ur pfp doesn't help

it's good to see you again, for real
if you're town pls help us solve this game because i feel a strange sense of despair

pedit: yeah town!una is the part of those three posts i strongly vibe with

[the worst]

thanksinnocentvillager

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i'd wager there's one scum in {nep,joyed}

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also dw i suck at mafia more than anyone, ur in good company

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I can’t think of a scarier player than you off the top of my head

that innocetnvaillager dude is a lot scarier than me

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AAAHHHH!!

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swap bp/four and myself/np and i think that's fairly close to where i'm @

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the claim was good, i'm a bit nonplussed with his Nearly Everything Else

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i think it's quite a clever fakeclaim (if it's a fakeclaim) but i'd be very loathe to clear someone off it especially when the setup feels like... quite heavy?

pedit: not really, who do you think the scum are?

[the worst]

hmm. i suppose. there's a lot of potential for clears with any combo of rolecop + {rolestopper, neap, tracker} are town. someone just being, like, told that another player is town, doesn't really... synergise?

like it's fine, idk if i necessarily outright think it's a fakeclaim, it's just kinda... fine

[the worst]

hmm
i agree i don't really make sense as scum unless there's a deeper wolf

pedit: o boy
i think that claim is transparently real

[the worst]

I personally thought this post was a masterpiece but it seems to have gone over everyone's heads

Radio static

I was right, the duckling had wondered into the library. We're now heading to the

police station

in hopes of answers. The duck is sitting on my shoulder, it didn't wan to go in my pocket, as it's too slow at walking.

Radio static

Some time later

Radio static

We've arrived at the station and it's a rather strange sight. It appears an

ice cream truck

has crashed into it breaking the doors open. How helpful. Unfortunately it seems like the music is stuck playing, this could get annoying.

The records room! Just what I was looking for. This looks like an interesting file.

Radio static

The pondering of

Commander Mendeleev

on people of note

Lieutenant Lilith

Been on the force for almost 5 years. Has a good work/play balance while on duty that the officers respect. Could be up for promotion soon. A good egg. Has trouble with trains.
It would be good to find out their views on IV.

TheFourEyedDude

Been in for questioning multiple times. Hard to break. Does say very relatable things like:

It's times like these I regret not being on my main as the joke I want to make is out of character for me.

Sirius9121

Insufficient data

Innocentvillager

A rambunctious fellow. Thought to have broken into the science facility and released parasites into the water stream. From my past experience with them, this sort of energy of breaking into a high security facility and breaking things is in character but it is unknown if this act was intentional or not. IV is considered suspicious and hostile for the time being.

Billy “The Slaughterer” Pilgrim

Most popular butcher in town. A retrospective man who doesn’t give much away.

UnaBombaH

Budding trainee to the force. It will be good to see what they bring to the table.

NorwegianboyEE

In the past when a crime is committed I bring norwee into custody for questioning. I just find them very shifty. Recently, however, it seems he is more on the straight and narrow. There could be a bright future for this one.

Constable Nepenthes

A similar soul to my own. The way she goes about her job is, in my eyes, reminiscent of my own style. Others may find it unorthodox, but it worked for me and it’ll work for her. Fine example of the force.

Scientist Sausage

Has been uncharacteristically helpful as of late. I’m used to not getting along with Sausage but I’m agreeing more and more with what he says. I like this change of character.

Something_Smart

Can’t help but enjoy playing poker with this guy. I wonder if they got my note asking about Larvar.

LavarManos

Not the most helpful officer.

the worst

The mascot of the station. Everyone loves his fluffy feathers and enjoyable quacking.

El

Highly elusive. Wanted for questioning regarding the monthly fireworks displays on

the 2nd and 3rd of each month

.

the hell is this if it's a fakeclaim created by pressure?

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there’s nothing stopping him from being a scum neapolitan?

ding ding

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hmm i tend to take newbie games a lot more seriously than non-newbie games (out of respect/opportunity to teach)

idk if that really helps though

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is saudade sausage?

yes he's also dead

norwegian's pfp is cute i need to read Nag

also dead, also cute

unabomber showed up late but is extremely agressive? damn son. Feels a little scummy to do so this early

how so?

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page 129 is pretty great

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that's fine. i was expressing issue with iv treating it as a town indicative claim, not expressing this as a super 3d chess magical super wizard duck read.

but also i stole your read for the clout.
whatcha gonna do about it?

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VOTE: PlusJOYEDVOTE: PlusJOYEDVOTE: PlusJOYEDVOTE: PlusJOYEDVOTE: PlusJOYEDVOTE: PlusJOYEDVOTE: PlusJOYED

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?????
when/why did he claim that?

he like, unambiguously crumbed and then hardclaimed n2+3 neapolitan.

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I'm genuinely confused why since I'm not neapolitian. Are you trying to trick me since I didn't read the whole thread? The maf got a kill and it wasn't on me.

you're not getting NK'd, neither was zombapoc.
claim please.

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do i believe that elephants would fakeclaim n2-3 neap in an attempt to draw nks or manipulative roles?
sure i do

do i think that happened in this game?
mmmmmmhrm

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if you're town your wincon is to get scum killed
if you're scum your wincon is to get town killed
don't be so fussed about our opinions; do your thing and we'll assess you.

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it's a pretty bad feeling regardless of your alignment. please don't take like, exorbitant amounts of time, but play the game with us. i promise to assess your alignments on your merits.

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ngl i'm starting to forget why i was townreading iv as well lol

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it's almost like it's better to just scare the hell out of JOYED until he alignment tells :0

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oops i said that out loud again.

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you should be!!!! i keep telling everyone i'm scum and nobody will listen!!!! gurhgurhguhirrlkvvbcnvbgh

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No players or slots have been compromised as a result of this, so the game may continue without forced replacements.

I mean, there was also this.
Having a "situational guilty" wouldn't then qualify as "slots been compromised".

best not to speculate too heavily on this
a situation which can organically generate a guilty, which generated a guilty, isn't a compromising situation.
a situation which *can't* organically generate a guilty, which generated a guilty due to a mod error, is a compromising situation.

mod error occurred, we now have the information we have. let's not angleshoot what ~could have happened~

pedit: i'm still posting this because i hate the rules

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Play with me a little here.
During this exercise I'll be assuming you are town.

If S_S is town, and the Zombie-slot is scum.
We are then in a scenario where we'd be approaching a townblock with rather huge numbers (basing the rest of them on claims here).


TheFourEyedDude -claimed informed
UnaBombaH - issa me, the RowStoppa'
Nepenthes - claimed Tracker, "apparently got the correct result"
the worst - at least for this exercise
Something_Smart - most likely certainly town if Zombie was scum.
Not_Mafia - "cleardd" by FourEyes

Meaning that the two remaining scum would have to be in:
lilith2013
innocentvillager
Froppy
Billy Pilgrim

Now I'm not saying this can't be that "easy", but can it be this easy?

maybe !~!!!~!~
plusJOYED should in theeeory be easier to read (saying this i recently accidentally miselim'd him, but, let bygones be bygones)
i'm still not sold that nep's claim is a town claim. i believe yours fairly unreservedly.
why are you writing off SS as lolbus scum?

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Sure.
I'm just a tad bit annoyed, and I feel like I'm allowed to be.

If Nep gets "inno'ed" by this, and it leads to a scum!Nep-victory..

nobody should be clearing nep, lol.

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Was nepenthes’ behavior on D1 PR-indicative in any way? I can never tell what this means

still solving but lowkey survivalistic
sometimes tend to have a slightly bombastic attitude because they know they have a claim to fall back on

idk maybe idk i just think she was Less Nep than i've seen

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eh not really
doesn't stop me from tormenting others for having the same opinion as me

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I agree plus is most likely scum. VT!zombie fakeclaiming neapolitan like that is very very out there for me.

very out there is about where I'm at!! I don't get ittttt

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I mean, why is that a thing you care about?

@duck can you answer this

idrk I was unsure if you meant anything else by it but didn't feel like prying on d1

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I don’t remember any situations similar to this but like I said, I think it’s NAI. I wouldn’t expect him to say anything about policy elims that he doesn’t actually believe (regardless of alignment). In jk9++ there was a policy-ish wagon on someone who fakeclaimed SK that he joined but he tried to spin it as a scumread and not policy (he was scum). That’s the closest thing I can remember.

yeah

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Sucks that my chance to prove im actually a tracker today got messed up but osuka fixed it as soon as he could and the fact I posted immediately after thread unlock should add some credence to that
So if youre going to call me scum I would like my proper title of Scum Tracker to be used thanks

I rly tr iv am i just biased bc I have no defenders besides him

Im willing to accept 99% town SS its not worth it to worry about

so if you're town about 8 townies thought you were scummy d1
you sure that's a town indicator and not tmi from iv?

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@billy if you think plus is scum, do you think SS came out of the gate bussing a partner like that?

I've got no experience with scum!S_S. Do I think its strange? Yes. Could be be a 2000iq scum play with the poe as wrong as it is and the need to get deepwolf play out? Yes it could. Do I know which one it is yet? No.

mood

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VOTE: four

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my dear the bus is just beginning

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hear me out right I'm just like
confused
I can see an attempt at town motivation in the fakeclaim. it makes sense to try and draw scum attention in this setup. nightkills on a vt are cool, roleblocks on a vt are cool. I'm pretty null about the neap claim outside of thinking it was SILLY.
~doesnt talk about the replace out~
I can see a tension-averse and to some extent conflict-averse newbie (hi it's JOYED) replacing into a vt slot and being like "the fuck did my pred claim this thing?"

I'm not sure conflict/risk averse newbscum replaces into this slot and sees their pred has crumbed a believable fakeclaim well and just goes "lol oops I'm a vt",....like it disallows their to engage in shitty mechgaming and makes them more likely to die and idk

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does that make u scum.....nah not really.
does it make joyed town.....yeah probably? I don't know help

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you

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me? the world I suppose

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- I don't really agree at rand but I'm not sure it's actually a useful alignment tell since we have like. you know, unambiguous things the slot has actually done? I think such a specific claim & setup are gonna come from someone who actually wants to look like that power role whether it's a fakeclaim or not

- I get newbscum trying to dumbtell and stuff but if JOYED is scum I really don't think I'd expect newbscum to think so subversively and it's probably just luck that I'm dumb enough to read into it this much

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worst, what do you think about 3350 vs 3353?

I'm a bit intoxicated and the mech side of the discussion isn't really doing anything for me. i feel like four is trying to double down on burying you when you're basically in quicksand tho which is.....feeling kinda like useless content when we have two other scums to find if he's right .....

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Okay, what unambiguous things has the slot done that you are using to read it then?

expressed a bunch of cute fluffy reads
had really slow trajectory
the claim setup, claim & reveal
notjoyed's iso is already more game focused than zombapoc's

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Okay, what unambiguous things has the slot done that you are using to read it then?

expressed a bunch of cute fluffy reads
had really slow trajectory
the claim setup, claim & reveal
notjoyed's iso is already more game focused than zombapoc's

I mean, why is that a thing you care about?

@duck can you answer this

idrk I was unsure if you meant anything else by it but didn't feel like prying on d1

Was nepenthes’ behavior on D1 PR-indicative in any way? I can never tell what this means

still solving but lowkey survivalistic
sometimes tend to have a slightly bombastic attitude because they know they have a claim to fall back on

idk maybe idk i just think she was Less Nep than i've seen

Lilith where's your brain river flowing
I feel like you're throwing a lot of questions and cursory observations out but I really don't have a good sense of why you're throwing these out / what the responses and answers are like..doing for your solve

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We know that there is an RB from the issues before, and we also now know that there's a rolestopper and possibly a tracker, though the results could have been faked with the way the day played out. I just think this is a play to get that slot into the night 2, specifically.

do we know there's an rb?

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why would switching your claim from a N2 tpr to a vt increase your chances of being alive for N2..... I don't think the claim was actually unbelievable if allowing for manipulative roles (which hey we have)

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we know there's a roleblocker because you setup spec it via the fact a mod error occurred

what a time to be alive

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Lilith where's your brain river flowing
I feel like you're throwing a lot of questions and cursory observations out but I really don't have a good sense of why you're throwing these out / what the responses and answers are like..doing for your solve

trying to figure out whether you’re scum

I keep telling u I am

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why would switching your claim from a N2 tpr to a vt increase your chances of being alive for N2..... I don't think the claim was actually unbelievable if allowing for manipulative roles (which hey we have)

I don't think that plusJOYed realized it was their slot that made the claim, thus, locking it in when there was a claim of "having to look it up".

I think it was a mistake.

they're a conflict averse newbie are u seriously telling me nobody would explain this in the scum pt.....

[the worst]

exactly....

cowards, all of ya

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check the rules

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I'd rather interrogate four btw sorry if I just kinda, don't reply to 3397

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Interesting you have this completely wild theory which I'm not convinced you believe in and when someone else pops into the thread you'd rather hide behind them than engage with me

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I'm really not crossing joyed out of the PoE at all. I'm inebriated and fixated. I'll revisit my actual reads when I can process what I'm talking about tonight<3<3

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PlusJOYED seems to genuinely have not paid attention to what slot they replaced into, overall.

I have seen several games where the scum do not even really use the thread for day talk as well. It's a mistake, but, it is what it is.

very possible but I've also seen a lot of games where scum hyperfocus on elims which are basically already going through and struggle to respond to questions in their own words.

Starting to wonder if worst is hard pocketing me since they know I'm afraid of them. And if scum!worst defends me here and I die and flip VT, they could get towny points, but in reality they knew I was town. And if I survive they think I'd vote with them

yes get in here <3

pedit: ....ew

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nvm can I revote joyed

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I rarely feel passive aggressive when I'm too drunk not to talk out of my ass

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I feel like extremely chilled rn

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worst, what do you think about 3350 vs 3353?

I'm a bit intoxicated and the mech side of the discussion isn't really doing anything for me. i feel like four is trying to double down on burying you when you're basically in quicksand tho which is.....feeling kinda like useless content when we have two other scums to find if he's right .....

That's kind of what I was thinking too. He said scum would distance themselves from me, but that seems kind of easy to catch in hindsight day 3

I think 4eyes is my main SR atm I still need to read day 1 though

Starting to wonder if worst is hard pocketing me since they know I'm afraid of them. And if scum!worst defends me here and I die and flip VT, they could get towny points, but in reality they knew I was town. And if I survive they think I'd vote with them

SR are currently the worst and 4eyes

yeah I could see it

what a cool real thought that definitely exists

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hello. my brain feels like bees in a desert.

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please don't be, I quite like bees.

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I'm Anxious Lilith isn't seeing why bilpilz is towny

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it would help if you explained why you think it’s [fake? scummy? etc] in like, long sentences.

I'm going to make a vocal point of ignoring this request and say the lack of progression is slimy and I have no idea how literally anyone reaches a four/worst solve on the page JOYED reaches it on

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I can see an attempt at town motivation in the fakeclaim. it makes sense to try and draw scum attention in this setup. nightkills on a vt are cool, roleblocks on a vt are cool. I'm pretty null about the neap claim outside of thinking it was SILLY.

Okay, so why did he make a claim that would require him to invent a result before he even had a chance to get NK'd...?

idrk I'm not feeling it anymore

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i try to capitalise nothing, autocorrect had different ideas

does it make joyed town.....yeah probably? I don't know help

But then there's this

It's almost like I have no idea what I'm doing

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I'm Anxious Lilith isn't seeing why bilpilz is towny

shouldn't you be like, more anxious that I'm now vocally scumreading you?

no that doesn't bother me very much

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I feel like the mod error was explicitly because of an RB/Rolestopper interaction

Oh shit, maybe! I was assuming it was just confusing rolestopper and roleblocker.

But also, yeah, not a good thing to try to read into.

Ah same. But yeah let's Not

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duck has the highest post count in the game and I still don’t have any posts I can immediately recall for which my brain-response was “oh yeah, ~vibing~“

It's generally agreed that I'm incredibly hard to relate to

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Duckling, how do you feel about lilith?

Lilith should be town but it feels like she's..lagging a bit? compared to e.g. micro 960 and the little angry voice in the back of my head is like SHES SCUM for it but I think it's probably just because this game is harder

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duck = the worst. his longtime avatar is a duckling. I see how this is confusing in hindsight

It's his own damn fault for losing some weird speezy bet and getting stuck with a weeb avatar.

I actually didn't lose the bet, I just wanted to join in on the fun.

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i think only one person actually made a bet, and everyone else was voluntary

nah a good dozen people lost the bet. only myself and a few other masochists volunteered

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Duckling, how do you feel about lilith?

Lilith should be town but it feels like she's..lagging a bit? compared to e.g. micro 960 and the little angry voice in the back of my head is like SHES SCUM for it but I think it's probably just because this game is harder

this is why I usually stick to micros :/ big games hard

I do vibe with this, I get progressively more useless the more people are alive.

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duck has the highest post count in the game and I still don’t have any posts I can immediately recall for which my brain-response was “oh yeah, ~vibing~“

It's generally agreed that I'm incredibly hard to relate to

ok but as people I feel like we vibe unusually well, so it's very jarring to not have that in game. you know?

I picked up in 960 (where my m.o. was to hope you were either scumread or I could just avoid lengthy engagements) that we have fairly jarringly different playstyles actually

I tend to follow the ebb & flow of the universe with respect to my reads and often find cases/reasoning performative and annoying!!! whereas you find cases and reasoning extremely intuitive and seem generally very confused/suspicious of my nonsense

which is hilarious because I agree, personally and in a lot of like, non-social games, we are very in sync.

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*SNEEZE*

I'm terribly sorry, but I'm allergic to game-related content.

mood

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idk how the worst plays maf so I'd be inclined to take SS's word for it but it still feels pockety to me

do you not follow my train of thought / do you think my read on you last night was made up? at what point did you realise I'm an evil scumbag trying to pocket u?

this is for joyed only everyone else pls let him answer

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We know that there is an RB from the issues before, and we also now know that there's a rolestopper and possibly a tracker, though the results could have been faked with the way the day played out. I just think this is a play to get that slot into the night 2, specifically.

do we know there's an rb?

Slip?

I wondered for like a fraction of a second but I think the level of nonsensical spec around the mod error is high enough that this could be sincere :u I don't really know

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Im willing to trust that the duck is town

Shit. Well done, you saw through my guise.

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I feel like it's possible that scum!plus made the mistake of messing up the claim and scum!duck attempted to save that slot by saying the claim-messup was towny, but then had to reverse the townread as other people voiced suspicions of scum!plus

given the claim/reversal has been very ugly and literally nobody (0 ppl) have voiced what I voiced before I wanted about it I think the joyed/tw s/s theory is kind of.. at odds with how anyone plays scum in this plist

I think I'd be worried about me if joyed was town yeah

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I can see an attempt at town motivation in the fakeclaim. it makes sense to try and draw scum attention in this setup. nightkills on a vt are cool, roleblocks on a vt are cool. I'm pretty null about the neap claim outside of thinking it was SILLY.

Okay, so why did he make a claim that would require him to invent a result before he even had a chance to get NK'd...?

He didn't. He gated it to n2. Amd he drew attention to it with minimal pressure on d2. So I think he actually did what youre saying he didn't.

I think the more interesting piece here is ducky saying that it makes sense to try and draw scum attention in this setup when a vt would be someone with literally no information about this setup.

That seemed to make sense in the spur of the moment until I realised he'd crumbed it BEFORE we had any setup information and also it only really made sense IF the neap claim was real but hey. arguing the whack cause nobody is talking about is my jam.

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Maybe, but I was sussed out hard by everyone including the worst. Why would scum worst try to express a TR on me then backpedal?

actually agree w this I'm not really into tanking myself along with a scumbuddy

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I feel like it's possible that scum!plus made the mistake of messing up the claim and scum!duck attempted to save that slot by saying the claim-messup was towny, but then had to reverse the townread as other people voiced suspicions of scum!plus

But he was on the screw Zombie train from the beginning of the day. What would motivate him to try to save the slot right when it had done something weird and attention-drawing?

pocketed.

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Okay, what unambiguous things has the slot done that you are using to read it then?

expressed a bunch of cute fluffy reads
had really slow trajectory
the claim setup, claim & reveal
notjoyed's iso is already more game focused than zombapoc's

also this post bothers me

I have literally no idea what else you were expecting out of a drunk duck.

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So maybe im coming around to think that the claim itself is plus town. My main concern here is ducky's comment though. Hes saying that it makes sense to draw scum's attention in this setup. But like if its a fakeclaim, which ducky seems to be saying, Zombie wouldn't have known the setup. So that comment doesn't make any sense. In fact it only makes sense if ducky knows the setup, because even with these claims, I dont know the setup. I know whats been claimed and thats it. So I think long story short, I may be scumreading ducky.

That's respectable, I'll circle back to this.

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SS's point is that we have rolestopper!una who we can direct to rolestop a neapolitan claim and protect them for another night, forcing a result. una outed his rolestopper role before zombie's claim, so vt!zombie would have known that una could have rolestopped zombie to get a result. at what point was zombie intending to reveal that the claim was fake? after we wasted the rolestop on him?

except that we have the soft from d1

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Oh it was him repeatedly asking for my meta regarding policy executions. He seemed insistent enough that it felt like he had somewhere he really wanted to go with it.

does asking for provable meta about something scarcely game related really feel all that towny? I think the rest of his posting is townier than that tangent