Mini Normal 2168 | So Many Bats! | Game Over!

[Tayl0r Swift]

i dont have my role PM yet. am i scum? i think shelly is probably scum here.

[Tayl0r Swift]

ok i have my role PM. turns out im not scum. who are the scum?

[Tayl0r Swift]

UNVOTE:

still think its shelly, but i havent started reading yet

[Tayl0r Swift]

i see shelly is shading me already and i havent even produced any content. scum for sure there.

[Tayl0r Swift]

I am inno child and everyone who fights against me will be sentenced to death

could someone confirm this?

[Tayl0r Swift]

ok well ive read the flavor now. very cute. i think morning is town here.

[Tayl0r Swift]

your pred was very scummy, give me some Interesting Content so I can sort you

is this true? i read from the post where he replaced out, and it seemed like people were sad to see him go. people were sad to see a scummy slot go?

the slot will definitely be scummy now.

[Tayl0r Swift]

I'm scumreading Saudade.

Could you elaborate on this?

when I posted this they had been active without doing too much pushing, mostly had just observed up to this point

from my vast experience playing with saudade, id say being quiet is +scum for saudade

[Tayl0r Swift]

this-this doesn't count cuz idk what a townblock is

People you think are town.

I've never played with anyone here besides the few in doggos
currently only have reads on the people in doggos
shelly plays strange. I dont understand her line of thinking ... ever. She'll be on my null for a long time bc I have a very hard time figuring her out.
Redados is giving me VERY different vibes here as compared to doggos where he was town. And these vibes r low-key scummy as well so he has an SR from me.
Mundivore has said like two things so im not sure what to think there. As town he was much more active...

in our newbie werent you going on about how meta is bad?

[Tayl0r Swift]

replacements suck

at last fmpov grendel's trying to be the agreeable mediator while I fight against the world

also they were trying to scumread / shade everyone

i have not read the posts in question, but isnt paranoia town indicative? you scumread the slot for being aggressive?

[Tayl0r Swift]

And I think you all know what I think about clowns.

What if i told you the character in my avi is called Clownpiece.

VOTE: NorweiganboyEE

that whole innocent child thing has to be the most awkward thing i have read in a while

Holy moly, agreed. Although I can kinda feel JV's response to it, b/c they were the mod of Doggos. That game shows for sure that crazy aggressive Day 1 play is well within shelly's playbook lmao.

***

Anyway, this is a super high volume thread. I play this game for a hobby, not a living, though, so I can't promise I'll output to all y'all's standards. I'm doing my best to stay caught up, though.

In all seriousness, my urge to lim shelly is still there, but I worry it comes close to lim on policy more than anything else. Her play is so ridiculously aggressive that it feels like it could easily mislead the town. Not to mention, her SR'ing of anyone who looks at her funny is distracting, even though my gut tells me she's town this game.

this post concerns me. remind me maybe to read this entire iso?

[Tayl0r Swift]

shading everyone furthers a scum wincon as scum win by getting miseliminations

mislims happen when town vote town

shading = +EV since town has >rand chance of voting other town if scum shades town

were there people my slot didnt shade in particular? pointing out scummy posts is pro town. pointing out scummy posts selectively from a few people is bad. id almost say scum want to selectively push one or two vulnerable people rather than shade everyone.

do you really have me as a scumread? if so, can you point to posts that are bad? i cant speak for my predecessor, but viewing the posts through the lens of knowing im town might help me interpret or see what /i/ saw?

[Tayl0r Swift]

Redados why did you vote Noraa?

was very frustrated at her and felt like my vote was the most powerful way I could show my anger

now that I have calmed down, I will leave my vote where it is.

if the vote was an anger vote, the normal reaction upon not being angry would be to unvote and apologize i feel like

[Tayl0r Swift]

Spoiler:

VC 1.5

Bat Fact #06:

While sometimes mistaken for mice, bats are absolutely, positively,

NOT

related to the rodent family. Not even a little.

EXILE STATUS

[3] shellyc:

Odd Day Jester, Mundivore, Grendel

[3] Saudade:

MiniMegabyte, NorwegianboyEE, duppin

[2] Redados:

UNOwen, Noraa

[2] Noraa:

bugspray, Redados

[1] Grendel:

shellyc

[1] MiniMegabyte:

Saudade

[1] Not Voting:

JacksonVirgo

With 13 still flying around the place, it takes 7 votes to ground someone.

The Day 1 deadline is in:

(expired on 2020-10-03 14:30:00)

Mod Notes:

(人^ω^)

[/mech]

this VC is a mess
saude / redados / noraa / grendel / megabyte cant all be town

where does this come from shelly?

[Tayl0r Swift]

ok im all caught up.

yes, im caught up from the very beginning.

of page 30.

so far redados is scummy
not sure why shelly is pushing me, it seems no one else agrees? shelly has had some interesting takes.
im watching noraa.
does norwee roll only scum in normals?

[Tayl0r Swift]

UNVOTE:

still think its shelly, but i havent started reading yet

so why did you think it was shelly?

ok im all caught up.

yes, im caught up from the very beginning.

of page 30.

so far redados is scummy
not sure why shelly is pushing me, it seems no one else agrees? shelly has had some interesting takes.
im watching noraa.
does norwee roll only scum in normals?

just to avoid confusion, does this mean you are still scumreading shelly or not?

just to avoid confusion, i was not scumreading shelly prior to reading any of the thread. i just picked shelly because ive played with her before and she had just posted. after reading some of the thread im still not really scumreading shelly, just a bit confused about her scumread on my slot.
not sure what to make of jackson or jester, they havent posted much in the pages i read.

[Tayl0r Swift]

What vast experience do u have playing with me

it was sarcasm, its a very small amount of experience. hope you get less sad irl.

[Tayl0r Swift]

Taylor Taylor I want a read too!! I feel left out ;(
I'm bored and most people's reads on me are boring. Make urs interesting pls <.<

i read you as non-clown.

[Tayl0r Swift]

well do you think i should read you as town or scum?

[Tayl0r Swift]

Tayl0r seems nice and level-headed

remind me not to trust mundivore's reads

[Tayl0r Swift]

Mundivore is this a joke or something cuz we're out of rvs already -____-
but if its not what's a clownread?

noraa even i know why thats there. its in the last 2-3 pages, mundi was specifically asked for clown reads. its nonsense shitposting.

[Tayl0r Swift]

Tayl0r seems nice and level-headed

remind me not to trust mundivore's reads

ok, ill give that a shot.

it was jester, who else?

[Tayl0r Swift]

well i havent read much of your play in this game yet. you seem a bit more relaxed here, although youre still pretty aggressive.

[Tayl0r Swift]

@taylor why are you still holding vote? whos your biggest SR aorn?

ive been in this game for 3 pages and have read 8 pages. gimme a minute to figure out whats what, ok? theres been very little AI content, and most of it has been shelly pushing on me, which shelly always does.

[Tayl0r Swift]

Every time you fluffpost, Noraa, an angel loses its wings and falls down to Earth to become a giraffe. Are you really okay with that?

do you have something against giraffes? what the hell is wrong with you?

[Tayl0r Swift]

shelly's push on me is... weird. now that ive seen the things she thinks are scummy im even more confused. they seem like normal townish things...

saying "id be willing to vote there but dont want to vote a vanity wagon/move my vote/whatever" seems fine to me. i dont understand the case. making cases that i dont understand is somewhat +scum, but eh?

[Tayl0r Swift]

fluffing is better than running around and starting a shit ton of little hurricanes
anyways jester what is ur read on the game rn?
I am struggling to find scum ngl and want to hear some opinions to *hopefully* guide me in the right direction

Okay, I'll give you my quick rundown based on the top off my head:

1. Noraa - Gut says town.

2. Mundivore - I like his clown gimmick, which ironically makes him pretty clowny himself. Hasn't done a whole lot content-wise, but wanting to policy elim shelly while admitting his gut says she's town is slight +town for him, given his following reasons in 899 are okay.

3. bugspray - Probably town. Entered strongly, but want to see more.

4. JacksonVirgo - Liked him while he was here. Interactions with shelly especially.

5. duppin - Townish for admittance of voting me despite not scumreading, and then progression of moving vote elsewhere after looking through my ISO.

6. MiniMegabyte - Townish from META (everyone's favourite)

7. Tayl0r Swift replaces Grendel - Towny, I liked his thoughts for the most part.

8. Odd Day Jester - Obvscum. Kill it with fire.

9. shellyc - Gut screams scum. Meta implies scum.

10. Saudade - Lacks fire. Could be due to real life. Unsure.

11. Redados - Towny for that emotional reaction to the Noraa.

12. UNOwen - Inconclusive.

13. NorwegianboyEE - Inconclusive, but fun.

gut is a terrible way to get reads from my experience(lol a hot 2 games) But yeah my gut's wrong 1000000% of the time that I'm town. This is scientifically proven yes by Noraa the genius scientist. Mundivore seems to talk more as town but I haven't meta dived him so I'm not 100% sure that is correct. Bugspray was the one yelling at me for voting the mod >:( Noraa's gut sure doesn't like him for questioning that. I saw someone else do it in some random finished game and I was like OH EM GEE that looks funsies ... and so yeah him SRing me for it made me a wee bit upsetti spaghetti. Jacksons my favorite. Period. Duppin SRed for the same thing as Bugspray I'm pretty sure and so I was upsetti spaghetti again. Mini is loved by everyone I agree. She def strikes me as a lil scummy bc of all the sheeping shit but I do understand its hard to put reads together as newbtown since I also struggle with that. Grendel/Taylor idk. Slot hasn't talked much and I'm still upsetti with Taylor for asking scum Noraa to self hammer in newbie whatever the number was U r hard to read but ur posts seem more likely to come from town than scum. Ur play style def throws me off a bit. Shelly is shelly and always is aggressive. Nothing crazy from her yet. I didn't like her accusations against me however nothing she has done is AI so far imo. Saudade is a null rn since he's done a few things that I've found slightly scummy however its not anything crazy. Redados has very biased judgement. It's not cool and I think its fairly likely that he actually is scum this round because of his LAMIST entrance and that fake AtE. UNO has said like two things. NEE hasn't said anything AI either imo.

this is actually not possible to read. the enter key is your friend, friend.

[Tayl0r Swift]

that said i did my best and think you get +townpoints for that

[Tayl0r Swift]

Spoiler:

Gonna look through Saudade's ISO to find everything that is potentially scum behavior

What a lively bunch

So far you're all doing great

It's interesting that Saudade enters this game with the mentality of being the reasonable person overlooking everything. Don't know what to make of it here.

VOTE: minimegaexcept this one, such a weak entrance

saude top tier read time

tbh i don't think the entrance was very weak? explain

Well she felt the need to explain her rvs vote.. like an excuse
And the first post beforehand was a quote to something not game related either

Weak reasons to vote Mini. Especially the first point, given 63 was an answer to Gendel's RVS questions, and WAS game related.

Its not a super strong read since the user didnt post afterwards but it feels like she tried to get some posts in just to be done with it rather than contribute

This is also strange because Mini does post more after the two posts Saudade is talking about. From 149 to 205

Its not a super strong read since the user didnt post afterwards but it feels like she tried to get some posts in just to be done with it rather than contribute

mega did post afterwards

Oh i missee it, what page

Oh, okay, he apparently missed that. Missing all of those other Mini posts however shows he didn't read the thread very closely at all, and did not bother to ISO Mini, it indicates a lack of interest in solving.

I'm fine with this for a bit, I don't quite understand what are you all fighting so energetically about though

This post comes in while shelly is warring against Jacko/I. I really don't like this one, it's like trying to play the calm mediator, it just rubs me the wrong way but I can't exactly articulate why.

saude you think we are TvT then?

it's way too early for me to tell what alignment either of you are

Eh, not even any preliminary thoughts on the top two posters at the time?

see shelly was just a hungry girl that explains her overall angry attitude and inconsistent mood swings on everyone

it seems like she knows shes town therefore anyone scumreading her must be scum because shes such an obvious town player from her point of view

Then, these posts + 459 come out in defense of shelly. This is contradictory to his opinion in 310 where he says he's fine with a shelly wagon. I don't if this is protecting a scum buddy or a white knight, but it rubs me wrong way, because I don't like any of the reasons for the defense.

Hmmmmmmm i dont like grendel

I may be wrong but did he just shade every single active slot in one way or another

Why the "I may be wrong"? So non-committal.

it's been a while since two people have voted me in a game, what a wonderful feeling

Trying to show he doesn't care. Maybe he town!him actually doesn't? but it's plausible this is scum!him faking it

Overall I'd say this is a scumread after doing that.

what was the motivation for doing this jester? it seems like you were searching for an excuse to scumread someone rather than trying to sort someone.

redados and jester are topscum for me at this point.

VOTE: jester
but id also be happy to vote redados

[Tayl0r Swift]

why do you think that fence-sitty word salad is town aligned when they're clearly trying to fill up space with words

white knighting blatantly here

white knighting for whom? i didnt get that from the bits i read. the only part i really took away was the bit directed at me which was either a pocket attempt or noraa town. more likely noraa town, but could go either way i suppose

[Tayl0r Swift]

noraa's used the word “idk” a horrific amount of times, anyone else getting scumpings

idk

[Tayl0r Swift]

the word scumpings shows up in more than half ur posts and scumping by itself means nothing

it's better to be paranoid than lack of scumreads

no no it's not.
I'll get scum reads once I gather enough info and shit. u get scum pings over essentially nothing.

no no it's not.
I'll get scum reads once I gather enough info and shit. u get scum pings over essentially nothing.

it's good to have scumreads even if they are wrong you get information from a callout / read

stop it. youre both the prettiest pony.

[Tayl0r Swift]

I WANNA MAKE THAT MY SIGNATURE LMAOOOO

I honestly kinda am tempted as well

you want your signature to be:
"I WANNA MAKE THAT MY SIGNATURE LMAOOOO"?
why?

[Tayl0r Swift]

id make that my signature tbh. its eyecatching and suits me

[Tayl0r Swift]

Dream as if you'll live like Noraa, live as if you'll die like shelly

Sounds good, feel free to use it lol, you'll just have to wait until the game is over

Tayl0r, why're you ignoring me?

cuz thats a post that requires effort. ill answer later. if i dont, nag me.

[Tayl0r Swift]

I was okay with Tayl0r's predecessor but not sure what to think of the slot at the moment. I know Jester already asked you to explain why you find his read on Saudade opportunistic but I would also really like to hear your read on Saudade since you did throw slight shade towards him earlier saying him being silent is a scum tell, I am well aware you were being sarcstic about your vast experience with him but still you never mentioned him after that.

actually i'd also like to hear your read on Mundivore since you said one of their posts concerned you but then you never mentioned them after that either

thats basically how i operate. youre gonna see me throwing some random shit at random walls for a while until i get settled

[Tayl0r Swift]

Hrm. I'm tired of all the fluff.

It feels like there hasn't been any really consequential scumhunting at all in these entire forty-two pages. Nobody has made behavior with actual

stakes

. I don't know if I can confidently eliminate even a single pair of scumbuddies with any degree of confidence.

Things won't happen unless town starts voting for people. I've been part of the problem, but it's easy enough to fix.

VOTE: Saudade to E-2.

I actually don't like this wagon. I like Saudade for town. However, either this entices scum out to put more votes on people, or I get shown a more compelling wagon, right? But somebody really needs to start taking risks for us to actually

learn

things.

you have no scumreads?

[Tayl0r Swift]

It feels like there hasn't been any really consequential scumhunting at all in these entire forty-two pages. Nobody has made behavior with actual stakes. I don't know if I can confidently eliminate even a single pair of scumbuddies with any degree of confidence.

Seriously? What about Jacko/I pushing shelly, or shelly pushing Grendel/Jacko? You have nothing for associations despite all that?

Simply put, without any real stakes for those events, I can't confidently say their scum play would deviate in any way from their town play. People react primarily to incentives. I don't think there have been any plausible consequences for any single person in this game so far.

The one possible exception is shelly's fake IC reveal, but that's only true since shelly didn't make it as obviously a joke as it was. But that's not helpful either, since town or scum would react to an IC reveal in the exact same way there, so we don't get any real information about JV from it. We are still quintessentially in RVS.

Honestly, I think this Saudade wagon carries at least one or two scum on it. I think that if I had more time, I'd go over the wagon and really look at people's reasons for voting onto it. But in the mean time, we need to accelerate the pace of voting and making meaningful decisions in this game. Nonsense decisions don't yield information. Nonsense plays don't yield information. Town and scum play quite similarly so long as we expect that they're playing well. Scum players have an incentive to look like town, so that they aren't elimm'd. Town PRs have an incentive to look slightly scummy, so that they aren't NK'd. Vanilla townies have an incentive to look like Town PR's so that they get NK'd instead of the PRs, which means they have an incentive to look slightly scummy as well. Playing towards the 'middle' of the block is a conveniently viable strategy for all players.

However, there are plays which can be made which have fundamentally different consequences for scum than they do for town. Analyzing how people react to these plays are the only way to get actually concrete information about the game state.

—The later votes on a wagon. (Reason: scum know the outcome of the wagon. The only way scum wins is by creating enough mislims. Scum are more likely to turn a wagon on a townie into a viable wagon.)

—Shifting off of a heavy wagon. (Reason: scum know the outcome of the wagon. The only way scum wins is by creating enough mislims. Scum are more likely to find reasons to abandon a scum wagon.)

—Heavily pushing a viable wagon. (Reason: scum know the outcome of the wagon. The only way scum wins is by creating enough mislims. Scum will not heavily push the wagon of scum and are more likely to heavily push a town wagon.)

—Hammering or declaring intent to hammer. (Reason: scum know the outcome of the final vote. The only way scum wins is by creating enough mislims. Scum may be willing to hammer a townie for weaker reasons. Scum are generally unwilling to hammer scum unless the town is already resolved in their target, in which case they'd quite like to hammer scum.)

—Claims. (Reason: scum are likely to claim a PR to survive the day, but unlikely to get NK'd in retribution. Scum may claim a PR that is very unlikely to appear in conjunction with an existing town PR, in which case a CC can secure a 1-for-1 trade at worst which is very town favorable on average.)

In order to run into any of these plays, it is essentially a requirement that there must be a player who could plausibly be elimmed. I don't like the Saudade wagon but we aren't going to learn anything about the game state with all the wagons hovering around E-3 or worse. To advance the game state to a point where we can actually get concrete information from the role reveals on elim and at night phase, we need to be making sure that the wagons are non-trivial.

if you think the saudade wagon is scum-driven why the hell are you on it?


also, shelly, your jackson case is bad. i dont see the scumslip at all, and i dont see why most of that stuff is scummy

[Tayl0r Swift]

I mean, I just turned Saudade's wagon into a much more viable wagon. By my own reasoning, a Saudade town flip (at

any

point in the game, even if we leave this wagon for a better one) should make me appear more scummy, and a Saudade scum flip should make me appear more town.

I'm aware of the fact that my vote looks more scummy than not. As I said, playing towards the middle is a fine strategy. The point is, I'm making a play that has consequences. Votes, and the ways people react to votes, and the ways people react

with

votes, are the only thing that have consequences and therefore any concrete long-term meaning in this game. If you're serious about your doubt of me, vote for me. Things need to

happen.

Otherwise, town will keep floundering until we run out of time and we're forced to elim the person with the most votes on them just so that we don't give scum an extra kill.

we only get information from your vote if you somewhat believe it.

ok so redados, mundivore, jester, and saudade are my PoE atm.

[Tayl0r Swift]

Spoiler:

Gonna look through Saudade's ISO to find everything that is potentially scum behavior

What a lively bunch

So far you're all doing great

It's interesting that Saudade enters this game with the mentality of being the reasonable person overlooking everything. Don't know what to make of it here.

VOTE: minimegaexcept this one, such a weak entrance

saude top tier read time

tbh i don't think the entrance was very weak? explain

Well she felt the need to explain her rvs vote.. like an excuse
And the first post beforehand was a quote to something not game related either

Weak reasons to vote Mini. Especially the first point, given 63 was an answer to Gendel's RVS questions, and WAS game related.

Its not a super strong read since the user didnt post afterwards but it feels like she tried to get some posts in just to be done with it rather than contribute

This is also strange because Mini does post more after the two posts Saudade is talking about. From 149 to 205

Its not a super strong read since the user didnt post afterwards but it feels like she tried to get some posts in just to be done with it rather than contribute

mega did post afterwards

Oh i missee it, what page

Oh, okay, he apparently missed that. Missing all of those other Mini posts however shows he didn't read the thread very closely at all, and did not bother to ISO Mini, it indicates a lack of interest in solving.

I'm fine with this for a bit, I don't quite understand what are you all fighting so energetically about though

This post comes in while shelly is warring against Jacko/I. I really don't like this one, it's like trying to play the calm mediator, it just rubs me the wrong way but I can't exactly articulate why.

saude you think we are TvT then?

it's way too early for me to tell what alignment either of you are

Eh, not even any preliminary thoughts on the top two posters at the time?

see shelly was just a hungry girl that explains her overall angry attitude and inconsistent mood swings on everyone

it seems like she knows shes town therefore anyone scumreading her must be scum because shes such an obvious town player from her point of view

Then, these posts + 459 come out in defense of shelly. This is contradictory to his opinion in 310 where he says he's fine with a shelly wagon. I don't if this is protecting a scum buddy or a white knight, but it rubs me wrong way, because I don't like any of the reasons for the defense.

Hmmmmmmm i dont like grendel

I may be wrong but did he just shade every single active slot in one way or another

Why the "I may be wrong"? So non-committal.

it's been a while since two people have voted me in a game, what a wonderful feeling

Trying to show he doesn't care. Maybe he town!him actually doesn't? but it's plausible this is scum!him faking it

Overall I'd say this is a scumread after doing that.

what was the motivation for doing this jester? it seems like you were searching for an excuse to scumread someone rather than trying to sort someone.

redados and jester are topscum for me at this point.

VOTE: jester
but id also be happy to vote redados

Really not a fan of this post.
Ironically it feels like you're trying to find an excuse yourself to scumread Jester here. And your read seems too strong based on that flimsy evidence.

actually i kinda agree that i got overly excited about that. its a scummy post, but not reason in itself that jester is lockscum.

[Tayl0r Swift]

Spoiler:

Gonna look through Saudade's ISO to find everything that is potentially scum behavior

What a lively bunch

So far you're all doing great

It's interesting that Saudade enters this game with the mentality of being the reasonable person overlooking everything. Don't know what to make of it here.

VOTE: minimegaexcept this one, such a weak entrance

saude top tier read time

tbh i don't think the entrance was very weak? explain

Well she felt the need to explain her rvs vote.. like an excuse
And the first post beforehand was a quote to something not game related either

Weak reasons to vote Mini. Especially the first point, given 63 was an answer to Gendel's RVS questions, and WAS game related.

Its not a super strong read since the user didnt post afterwards but it feels like she tried to get some posts in just to be done with it rather than contribute

This is also strange because Mini does post more after the two posts Saudade is talking about. From 149 to 205

Its not a super strong read since the user didnt post afterwards but it feels like she tried to get some posts in just to be done with it rather than contribute

mega did post afterwards

Oh i missee it, what page

Oh, okay, he apparently missed that. Missing all of those other Mini posts however shows he didn't read the thread very closely at all, and did not bother to ISO Mini, it indicates a lack of interest in solving.

I'm fine with this for a bit, I don't quite understand what are you all fighting so energetically about though

This post comes in while shelly is warring against Jacko/I. I really don't like this one, it's like trying to play the calm mediator, it just rubs me the wrong way but I can't exactly articulate why.

saude you think we are TvT then?

it's way too early for me to tell what alignment either of you are

Eh, not even any preliminary thoughts on the top two posters at the time?

see shelly was just a hungry girl that explains her overall angry attitude and inconsistent mood swings on everyone

it seems like she knows shes town therefore anyone scumreading her must be scum because shes such an obvious town player from her point of view

Then, these posts + 459 come out in defense of shelly. This is contradictory to his opinion in 310 where he says he's fine with a shelly wagon. I don't if this is protecting a scum buddy or a white knight, but it rubs me wrong way, because I don't like any of the reasons for the defense.

Hmmmmmmm i dont like grendel

I may be wrong but did he just shade every single active slot in one way or another

Why the "I may be wrong"? So non-committal.

it's been a while since two people have voted me in a game, what a wonderful feeling

Trying to show he doesn't care. Maybe he town!him actually doesn't? but it's plausible this is scum!him faking it

Overall I'd say this is a scumread after doing that.

just gonna respond point by point here rather than breaking the quote up.

-eh dont see why thats scummy, its page 3
-dont see why the next couple are scummy rather than just lazy or disengaged. sure its anti-town but that doesnt make it scummy.
-now we're down to 310, fair enough, but you saying weak gutread is pretty easy to fake
- fair enough
- eh, dunno about this
-sure

like the case itself is fine. its just i couldnt follow why youd push that rather than another case. and going into reading an iso with the mindset of trying to prove scum means youre going to confirmation bias yourself. i also somewhat scumread saudade (although i really havent seen saudade post much since i joined, so the saudade posts ive seen have been cherrypicked).

[Tayl0r Swift]

a vote count would be great.

that said afaik the jester wagon is not really viable, and now that ive slept i do think redados probably has more scum equity than jester, so

VOTE: redados

still willing to go saudade, but not until saudade is in the thread and posting.

[Tayl0r Swift]

a vote count would be great.

that said afaik the jester wagon is not really viable, and now that ive slept i do think redados probably has more scum equity than jester, so

VOTE: redados

still willing to go saudade, but not until saudade is in the thread and posting.

I may have started the redados wagon but I dont like ur really fast transition here after being criticized for ur other wagon. I almost feel like its a scum!Taylor jumping on this wagon that will slowly start pushing it and later if redados was town, u would blame it on me for starting the wagon. And if redados is ur scum partner, u would get lots of town credit for bussing him. I'm not liking the vibes I'm getting here. I agree I wasn't particularly paying too much attention in the newbie that just ended however ur tone here is definitely different. I'll keep you at a TR for now but ur definitely looking fishy as of rn and you will definitely be replacing redados in my SRs if he flips green not red. If he flips red, it would be a lil strange for scums to bus one of their partners day 1 but it would also get u a shit shit shit ton of town cred which if ur an independent kind of scum, that's what u would do. I have fishy vibes on Taylor rn. Can anyone agree with me here? If I get some sort of confirmation that I am indeed not insane, I may be considering replacing bugspray/Norwee with her as the third scum

except that i didnt sheep you onto redados. i stated reasons for the scumread earlier.

[Tayl0r Swift]

U have never had a case on Redados

but i stated a scumread with reasoning

[Tayl0r Swift]

Redados why did you vote Noraa?

was very frustrated at her and felt like my vote was the most powerful way I could show my anger

now that I have calmed down, I will leave my vote where it is.

if the vote was an anger vote, the normal reaction upon not being angry would be to unvote and apologize i feel like

ok im all caught up.

yes, im caught up from the very beginning.

of page 30.

so far redados is scummy
not sure why shelly is pushing me, it seems no one else agrees? shelly has had some interesting takes.
im watching noraa.
does norwee roll only scum in normals?

Spoiler:

Gonna look through Saudade's ISO to find everything that is potentially scum behavior

What a lively bunch

So far you're all doing great

It's interesting that Saudade enters this game with the mentality of being the reasonable person overlooking everything. Don't know what to make of it here.

VOTE: minimegaexcept this one, such a weak entrance

saude top tier read time

tbh i don't think the entrance was very weak? explain

Well she felt the need to explain her rvs vote.. like an excuse
And the first post beforehand was a quote to something not game related either

Weak reasons to vote Mini. Especially the first point, given 63 was an answer to Gendel's RVS questions, and WAS game related.

Its not a super strong read since the user didnt post afterwards but it feels like she tried to get some posts in just to be done with it rather than contribute

This is also strange because Mini does post more after the two posts Saudade is talking about. From 149 to 205

Its not a super strong read since the user didnt post afterwards but it feels like she tried to get some posts in just to be done with it rather than contribute

mega did post afterwards

Oh i missee it, what page

Oh, okay, he apparently missed that. Missing all of those other Mini posts however shows he didn't read the thread very closely at all, and did not bother to ISO Mini, it indicates a lack of interest in solving.

I'm fine with this for a bit, I don't quite understand what are you all fighting so energetically about though

This post comes in while shelly is warring against Jacko/I. I really don't like this one, it's like trying to play the calm mediator, it just rubs me the wrong way but I can't exactly articulate why.

saude you think we are TvT then?

it's way too early for me to tell what alignment either of you are

Eh, not even any preliminary thoughts on the top two posters at the time?

see shelly was just a hungry girl that explains her overall angry attitude and inconsistent mood swings on everyone

it seems like she knows shes town therefore anyone scumreading her must be scum because shes such an obvious town player from her point of view

Then, these posts + 459 come out in defense of shelly. This is contradictory to his opinion in 310 where he says he's fine with a shelly wagon. I don't if this is protecting a scum buddy or a white knight, but it rubs me wrong way, because I don't like any of the reasons for the defense.

Hmmmmmmm i dont like grendel

I may be wrong but did he just shade every single active slot in one way or another

Why the "I may be wrong"? So non-committal.

it's been a while since two people have voted me in a game, what a wonderful feeling

Trying to show he doesn't care. Maybe he town!him actually doesn't? but it's plausible this is scum!him faking it

Overall I'd say this is a scumread after doing that.

what was the motivation for doing this jester? it seems like you were searching for an excuse to scumread someone rather than trying to sort someone.

redados and jester are topscum for me at this point.

VOTE: jester
but id also be happy to vote redados

ok here is my progression on redados which actually doesnt have as much as i thought it did.

[Tayl0r Swift]

i was also town power role there. i had to stop being quite so aggressive given im not the jailkeeper here.

[Tayl0r Swift]

From my experience, when Tayl0r is obvscum they're obvscum. Dunno how they play as town yet.

wrong. im always obvscum

[Tayl0r Swift]

i didnt have nothing. i stated a reason for the scumread. i think its a good reason. there were other posts that pinged me too, but i didnt put them in my iso.

come on noraa, when youre manipulative like this it makes me think youre scum

[Tayl0r Swift]

where's the manipulation? you do look like a scum backpedalling rn. its an opinion of mine that is based off of facts

i mean youre wrong and your opinion is not a fact

[Tayl0r Swift]

noraa you were in newbie 2028, i kinda have a hard time believing town!you thinks im scum here. you know that people always scumread me and that says more about me than my alignment.

[Tayl0r Swift]

Grendel literally posted like a hot ten posts. And during those ten posts, I had a pretty null and sorta leaning town read on them. However Taylor did not at all match these reads.

am i not a hot ten?

[Tayl0r Swift]

make a big ugly quote wall and tell me where tf grendel's posts indicated a town mindset

because I think taylor townier than grendel's play tbh, also considering taylor's super bad at obvtowning (no offence, and im also super bad at it)

nope, no offense taken. i make no effort to obvtown.

[Tayl0r Swift]

Grendel literally posted like a hot ten posts. And during those ten posts, I had a pretty null and sorta leaning town read on them. However Taylor did not at all match these reads.

am i not a hot ten?

no ur not a hot 10. ur a hot 50 and a scummy hot 50 at that

im not sure what grading scale youre using here, so i dont know how to feel about that

[Tayl0r Swift]

i have offsite scum games. no you cant see my offsite games. theres a reason im not on that site any more and i dont want to dredge up those reasons. this is my first/only account on this site so no im not an alt.

[Tayl0r Swift]

youre an ordinary noraa, maybe you could upgrade to a hot noraa?

[Tayl0r Swift]

fair enough.

[Tayl0r Swift]

Taylor's replies to my SRs have been awfully calm tho which is kinda throwing me off a bit. I'm not quite too sure if I'm correct with my SR but I've never played a game with scum!Taylor so I'm worrying a lil that this may be AI

not really. well maybe? i dont understand any reasoning as to why im supposed to be scum, so im just ignoring it. but then also, no one else does either and im town so im not really stressing. i did say that you should be able to see that im town here based on 2028

[Tayl0r Swift]

you do you. i wont be offended if you decide to scumread me. but ill be a little disappointed.

[no AtE here]

[Tayl0r Swift]

you do you. i wont be offended if you decide to scumread me. but ill be a little disappointed.

[no AtE here]

this sounds super self aware?

who's with me on taylor/grendel: I ideally want that slot today and I think we can get some pressurevotes at least there

why does self aware = scum?

[Tayl0r Swift]

Uhhh self awareness = scum because of the simple reason that scum's job is to avoid being limmed and being self aware furthers that

town's job is to scumhunt. scum's job is to look like town. do i need to explain further than that?

town has the job of avoiding being mislimmed. being self-aware furthers that. you can be self-aware and scumhunt. this is an awful argument.

[Tayl0r Swift]

U suck at OMGUSing

OMG U suck at OMGUS?

[Tayl0r Swift]

but i do agree that that catchup is pretty weak, and its very odd to suspect players and call them scummy just because they disagree with you.

[Tayl0r Swift]

redados, could you point to the specific things in uno's posts that make you scumread him? you stated a scumread but i dont know why you scumread.

[Tayl0r Swift]

If we get a Redados flip, here's what I think. If he flips scum that likely means he told his partners to bus him to get a shit ton of towncred by jumping on his wagon. If he flips town, I will be baffled and literally just stfu for a while while I think about how I ended up strongly SRing a townie. I doubt he will flip green tho ngl. He's seriously just been way too scummy for me to even honestly consider that possibility

downvote. you should always consider the possibility that someone might be town. only looking for scum motivation means youll see scum everywhere and very rarely in actual scum

[Tayl0r Swift]

If we get a Redados flip, here's what I think. If he flips scum that likely means he told his partners to bus him to get a shit ton of towncred by jumping on his wagon. If he flips town, I will be baffled and literally just stfu for a while while I think about how I ended up strongly SRing a townie. I doubt he will flip green tho ngl. He's seriously just been way too scummy for me to even honestly consider that possibility

downvote. you should always consider the possibility that someone might be town. only looking for scum motivation means youll see scum everywhere and very rarely in actual scum

I cannot imagine a world where town!Redados exists here. It's not something that my brain is willing to process aorn

then get a new brain or take a break. thats the wrong attitude. its page 8 and theres a 75% chance or so that a randomly selected person is town. you scumread pretty much everyone, especially if they disagree with you. and you tunnel really easily on townies.

[Tayl0r Swift]

sorry if that sounds harsh. your brain is fine. but dont confbias yourself

[Tayl0r Swift]

Taylor Swift, what do you think UNOwen's alignment is and why?

townlean, waiting on more content from uno to give a more confident stance. good posts and takes, seems to be looking at the game and trying to solve rather than pushing an agenda

[Tayl0r Swift]

oooooooooh check noraa's ISO for the word UNO

this is amazing

pedit: noraa/taylor/uno vibing together so much sets off alarms as to how someone is deep pocketed

it could also be a townbloc forming. not sure if noraa is town yet, but i think its more likely that shes town than shes trying to pocket. actually i feel the same way about noraa as i do about you.

[Tayl0r Swift]

I don't see why scum!redados would wanna say shelly and I aren't scum but that might be something that ur saying to try to make me think its not a shelly/redados solve

stop doing preflip associatives

[Tayl0r Swift]

why are we thinking about what to do as scum
is 1267 a scumslip

no its not. stopppppp

[Tayl0r Swift]

yeah I think you're scummy, but the past couple of pages point to ShellyC and Noraa not being scum partners imo

1250 was directed at @taylor, but sure I'll take it

if you think we aren't S/S do you think scum is noraa and town is me then?

yes.

why?

[Tayl0r Swift]

No I think it would be to get me off ur tail. The reason is that anyone that assumes Shelly and I ended up both rolling scum again has to be a low-key delusional townie that wants the pieces that clearly don't fit together to fit together. You saying you ruled out the possibility just makes u sound more town cuz the probability of that happening is literally god knows how low. And considering a possibility that is literally so damn small definitely looks town imo. But then I'm kinda like mmm what if scum!redados is trying to change my mind with this bc he knows I overthink the shit outta everything and anything?

i mean theyre independent probabilities. saying the two of you were scum together last time does not mean youre not scum together this time. it doesnt mean you are. its just a thing that is.

[Tayl0r Swift]

taylor why are you blatantly defending redados

hmmm im thinking taylor/redados or noraa/owen as The Worlds

im gonna continue to defend everyone from what i see are bad arguments. im still voting redados and i still scumread redados. and youre doing preflip associations again.

[Tayl0r Swift]

why are preflip associations bad

interactions are literally the whole point of Mafia

but trying to say "this person is mafia because this person is mafia" only works if you know one is mafia. otherwise its just pure speculation that could be TvT and its much easier for scum to do preflip associations since they actually know who has what alignment. two people being scum together is only helpful if theyre scummy. them having interactions or defending each other does not make them scum. its a bad way of solving

[Tayl0r Swift]

also, why do you feel obligation to be everyone's knight in shining armour and defend them from bad arguments because its not your job to do that

its everyone's job. bad arguments lead to bad lunches.

[Tayl0r Swift]

having interactions with each other and defending each other is partner equity which could be townblock or scum partners

either way i think it's a valid way of solving but we'll agree to disagree

pedit: noraa stop sheeping

line 1: true, but you only know which one it is with a flip. so its a bad argument.
line 2: ok, you do you.
line 3: fair point

[Tayl0r Swift]

you sheeped my suspicion on redados for not compellingly casing me.

wait, nope. what?

[Tayl0r Swift]

red = redados' scumteam

[4] Redados:

UNOwen

,

Noraa

, Tayl0r Swift, shellyc
[4] Saudade: MiniMegabyte, NorwegianboyEE, duppin, JacksonVirgo
[2] shellyc: Odd Day Jester,

Mundivore

[1] Noraa: bugspray
[1] MiniMegabyte: Saudade
[1] UNOwen: Redados

so you think scum haven't bussed each other at all

I mean, tbh scum have no incentive to bus each other in RVS. The average player will

not

interact with a lot more players than they

do

interact with so it's not particularly a scumtell to avoid voting for a couple of different people. And getting scum taken out in RVS is really, really shitty, no need to make it any more likely.

its also an exceptionally cheap bus vote because rvs wagons almost never get hammered and later on you have that recorded vote against scum or scum on you

[Tayl0r Swift]

I've been on the fence about it. But i think i'm ready to admit that i don't really agree with the Redados wagon. I'm thinking he's town.

redados' recent posts have for sure been more towny than before. im not ready to move my vote off yet

[Tayl0r Swift]

Page 42:

I actually kind of like shelly's case here. The scumpings on Jackson being agreeable are legit, and 717 is a very bizzare reason to think someone isn't scum, especially since it was kinda clear to me that shelly was playing along with Jacko's IC reveal joke. This makes me like shelly a little more, and maybe Jacko

very

slightly less, but not by much.
1042: I townread fluff, Noraa. You better not stop.
1043 is a lot of IIoA (Information instead of Analysis) from Mundivore, but honestly, I still like it for the way they're applying it to this game.

Page 43:

Tayl0r acknowledges my case is fine in 1063, and says: "its just i couldnt follow why youd push that rather than another case."
This was addressed by me in 994 - I ISOed the slot I was most unsure about. I seem to have addressed all of her reasons and she doesn't have problems with the case, yet still implies she would wagon me if there were more support in 1065. I'm wondering if she's forcing herself to scumread me despite not having proper reasons, in order to go against the grain and look towny for it. Tinfoil, but I don't like it from her.
There's also 1059:

Tayl0r

, why do you have a PoE already for someone who replaced in 30+ pages in and started reading from that point? Do you townread everyone else?

when i said your case was fine i meant that. it wasnt good. it was just ok, some of it was very bad and some of it was kinda good. but the reasoning behind it was questionable.

as for the PoE, there are some null slots who havent really done anything, but i havent really sorted them one way or another.

[Tayl0r Swift]

but the reasoning behind it was questionable.

What exactly is questionable? I want you explain why you think my explanation of "oh, I don't have any real scumreads outside of shelly, I should ISO people I'm unsure about, let's start with Saudade who I'm most unsure about" is questionable to you.

Are you using the term "PoE" as the name for your scumpool? PoE is usually used when you townread everyone else so you start eliminating in the remaining players (process of elimination)

no its PoE. because for now im writing off the nulls as likely town. theyre added to PoE because there is content and they arent sorted as town.

and im still waiting for you to iso other people then.

[Tayl0r Swift]

VOTE: reddados

what do you make of redados' recent posts?

[Tayl0r Swift]

I was okay with Tayl0r's predecessor but not sure what to think of the slot at the moment. I know Jester already asked you to explain why you find his read on Saudade opportunistic but I would also really like to hear your read on Saudade since you did throw slight shade towards him earlier saying him being silent is a scum tell, I am well aware you were being sarcstic about your vast experience with him but still you never mentioned him after that.

actually i'd also like to hear your read on Mundivore since you said one of their posts concerned you but then you never mentioned them after that either

thats basically how i operate. youre gonna see me throwing some random shit at random walls for a while until i get settled

sure that's fair, but i would still like to hear your read on Saudade

Hrm. I'm tired of all the fluff.

It feels like there hasn't been any really consequential scumhunting at all in these entire forty-two pages. Nobody has made behavior with actual

stakes

. I don't know if I can confidently eliminate even a single pair of scumbuddies with any degree of confidence.

Things won't happen unless town starts voting for people. I've been part of the problem, but it's easy enough to fix.

VOTE: Saudade to E-2.

I actually don't like this wagon. I like Saudade for town. However, either this entices scum out to put more votes on people, or I get shown a more compelling wagon, right? But somebody really needs to start taking risks for us to actually

learn

things.

why do you like saudade for town?

If I'm going to be honest? It's simply because I don't understand the cases against them, and because nothing they've said pinged my scum radar. I've not gotten a gut 'ping' against them, and with the amount of output this thread is creating, keeping up with it is all I can do. Rereads are prohibitive with how long this thread is. If you still feel like your case is strong, and can succinctly summarize it or easily reach a link back to the primary context, I'd appreciate it.

hm okay i can maybe buy this, my initial concern was that Saudade had done absolutely nothing to warrant a town read in my opinion (unless it's a meta read of course). Don't get me wrong I don't think Saudade has been super scummy either but i find it slightly suspicious if someone has a townread on him because it gives me the impression they know something i do not. It actually makes me lean slightly more towards Saudade possibly being town simply due to the fact that I have a hard time understanding how a town player would have a townread on him at this point especially since several of the players in this thread seem to suggest that Saudade is a really good player. I have personally never played with him before but if he is a strong player then it does not really make sense to me that people are townread him when he hasn't really done anything so far since he has some real life stuff going on at the moment. so yeah when you call a townread on him to me it comes across as you trying to gain some towncred in case he is town and is mislynched, and the fact that you voted on him even though you thought he was town is just.. weird. It gave me the impression you wanted to vote on him but wanted to avoid the lashback at all cost in case he is mislynched (if we assume he is town in this scenario), but on the other hand I just think it's such a weird way for you to do that if you are scum

this is a lot of words and fence-sitting with no actual analysis or attempt to solve.

duppin who are your scumreads and townreads atm?

[Tayl0r Swift]

VOTE: reddados

what do you make of redados' recent posts?

they seem scummy

ok can you scumcase redados' last 10-15 posts for me?

[Tayl0r Swift]

duppin can u try to solve anyone outside of the {saudade} pool?

sure I can follow up on my previous reads:

At the moment I am fairly confident bugspray (although they have dropped a bit), Jester, Norwee are town.

I believe shelly is town as well actually. I have not played with her and most of the scumreads on her seems to be a bit biased on meta but the reads themselves seem to be a bit lackluster to me.
I think someone said it was suspicious of her to do pre flip reads but I disagree with this a lot actually - it is bad if she starts playing around pre flips, but expressing her thoughts on a potential flip is something I find to be a bit more towny albeit easy to fake as scum as well as it helps you set up your read progression in case you get a mislynch through. But the counter argument to that in this case is in my opinion that shelly has been all over the playerlist. I am pretty sure she has called out everyone for something at this point and has engaged with everyone. I have no idea if this is out of her scumrange or not but to me her play jsut comes across as coming from a town perspective.

I still find redados suspicious for the exact same reasons I listed earlier. He hasn't really managed to change my mind, my only concern is still that it almost feels hm I guess too easy? There's not really much defense or counter pressure, it does not mean he isn't scum but it just makes me a bit concerned

As for Saudade I just mentioned it before.

I don't really know about the rest. In fact I am trying to avoid reading you at the moment noraa because every time I try to read you I keep thinking that this could simply be explained by you being a new player. I am kind of leaning of some of the meta reads being thrown at you

can you point us to specific posts? this isnt helpful because i cant track any of your progressions

[Tayl0r Swift]

duppin can u try to solve anyone outside of the {saudade} pool?

sure I can follow up on my previous reads:

At the moment I am fairly confident bugspray (although they have dropped a bit), Jester, Norwee are town.

I believe shelly is town as well actually. I have not played with her and most of the scumreads on her seems to be a bit biased on meta but the reads themselves seem to be a bit lackluster to me.
I think someone said it was suspicious of her to do pre flip reads but I disagree with this a lot actually - it is bad if she starts playing around pre flips, but expressing her thoughts on a potential flip is something I find to be a bit more towny albeit easy to fake as scum as well as it helps you set up your read progression in case you get a mislynch through. But the counter argument to that in this case is in my opinion that shelly has been all over the playerlist. I am pretty sure she has called out everyone for something at this point and has engaged with everyone. I have no idea if this is out of her scumrange or not but to me her play jsut comes across as coming from a town perspective.

I still find redados suspicious for the exact same reasons I listed earlier. He hasn't really managed to change my mind, my only concern is still that it almost feels hm I guess too easy? There's not really much defense or counter pressure, it does not mean he isn't scum but it just makes me a bit concerned

As for Saudade I just mentioned it before.

I don't really know about the rest. In fact I am trying to avoid reading you at the moment noraa because every time I try to read you I keep thinking that this could simply be explained by you being a new player. I am kind of leaning of some of the meta reads being thrown at you

can you point us to specific posts? this isnt helpful because i cant track any of your progressions

the interaction between me and Saudade started in 631

can you walk us through posts that made you scum/townread people other than saudade and explain what about the post made you scum/townread the person?

[Tayl0r Swift]

duppin can u try to solve anyone outside of the {saudade} pool?

sure I can follow up on my previous reads:

At the moment I am fairly confident bugspray (although they have dropped a bit), Jester, Norwee are town.

I believe shelly is town as well actually. I have not played with her and most of the scumreads on her seems to be a bit biased on meta but the reads themselves seem to be a bit lackluster to me.
I think someone said it was suspicious of her to do pre flip reads but I disagree with this a lot actually - it is bad if she starts playing around pre flips, but expressing her thoughts on a potential flip is something I find to be a bit more towny albeit easy to fake as scum as well as it helps you set up your read progression in case you get a mislynch through. But the counter argument to that in this case is in my opinion that shelly has been all over the playerlist. I am pretty sure she has called out everyone for something at this point and has engaged with everyone. I have no idea if this is out of her scumrange or not but to me her play jsut comes across as coming from a town perspective.

I still find redados suspicious for the exact same reasons I listed earlier. He hasn't really managed to change my mind, my only concern is still that it almost feels hm I guess too easy? There's not really much defense or counter pressure, it does not mean he isn't scum but it just makes me a bit concerned

As for Saudade I just mentioned it before.

I don't really know about the rest. In fact I am trying to avoid reading you at the moment noraa because every time I try to read you I keep thinking that this could simply be explained by you being a new player. I am kind of leaning of some of the meta reads being thrown at you

can you point us to specific posts? this isnt helpful because i cant track any of your progressions

the interaction between me and Saudade started in 631

can you walk us through posts that made you scum/townread people other than saudade and explain what about the post made you scum/townread the person?

I have no problem elaborating on my reads, but it's not really about specific posts.
However I have asked you to share your Saudade read several times now so I'd like you to do that as well

theres not much to my saudade read. i feel like he should be more active but its irl stuff rather than in game stuff, so he gets a pass for now. i really need you to explain some of your non-saudade reads

[Tayl0r Swift]

duppin. you need to explain your reads. you stated some reads but i have no idea why you believe anything that you say you believe.

[Tayl0r Swift]

Ngl when I saw duppin's catch up posts, I had a few kinda like "uh ok then" moments.
I wasn't greatly confident in them and still am not tbh so I will still be leaning town for now

so youre suspicious of everyone, but then comes someone with legit questionable posts and you just townread? uhm? what?

[Tayl0r Swift]

ok but walk me through whats giving you the townread

[Tayl0r Swift]

also VOTE: duppin

can we make this a wagon?

[Tayl0r Swift]

duppin. you need to explain your reads. you stated some reads but i have no idea why you believe anything that you say you believe.

hm see I have explained all of the reads I have given. I was under the impression that if you were town you reaching out to me was because you were trying to solve my slot, but the impression I am getting is that you have not tried to ISO me and you don't seem to be reading what I am saying either, so I'm beginning to question your motivation actually

this is a straight up lie. you have not explained your reasons for scumreading or townreading anyone. ive asked you to do so repeatedly and you keep deflecting and asking me questions. CITE SPECIFIC POSTS THAT MADE YOU SCUMREAD SOMEONE. i dont care who. just go through an ISO of someone you scumread and explain which posts made you scumread them. stating a scumread is not the same as explaining it. theres 0 game-advancing content coming from you.

[Tayl0r Swift]

Honestly, shelly is efforting so much that she'll hopefully just spew herself as town/scum further down the line. It really does feel like this is her scummeta based on what I've seen, mostly from stuff she did early on, buuuut I'll shelve this for a bit.

VOTE: Tayl0r

Idk what i'm doing so i guess i'll sheep you. Tayl0r has been firm null for me anyway so not a bad place for me to place my vote.
VOTE: Tayl0r Swift

so you have 0 scumreads after 60 pages norwee?

[Tayl0r Swift]

okey. i haven't done a full analysis on taylor but grendel was sus af

this is a bad reason for a vote on someone.

[Tayl0r Swift]

well put it this way noraa
if taylor flips green then we probably flip reddados. And if reddados flips red NE is highly likely to be scum because he's trying to derail a red wagon

this is really really bad. setting up the next mislunches

[Tayl0r Swift]

how are people letting duppin get away with not explaining reads at all? everyone who posts about duppin seems to agree that the posts are bad, but theres no momentum towards the wagon, and immediately a shitty counterwagon forms on me.

duppin is 90% scum here.

[Tayl0r Swift]

how are people letting duppin get away with not explaining reads at all? everyone who posts about duppin seems to agree that the posts are bad, but theres no momentum towards the wagon, and immediately a shitty counterwagon forms on me.

duppin is 90% scum here.

Why aren't duppin's last 10 or 15 posts satisfactory in explanations for you? In comparison to bugspray, Norwee, Mundivore who imo have explained less. I don't like the strong confidence here either.

i can sorta understand the logic from those other people. duppin keeps deflecting and hasnt explained anything.

[Tayl0r Swift]

i think theres likely scum in norwee or plus, more likely plus.

[Tayl0r Swift]

duppin can u try to solve anyone outside of the {saudade} pool?

sure I can follow up on my previous reads:

At the moment I am fairly confident bugspray (although they have dropped a bit), Jester, Norwee are town.

I believe shelly is town as well actually. I have not played with her and most of the scumreads on her seems to be a bit biased on meta but the reads themselves seem to be a bit lackluster to me.
I think someone said it was suspicious of her to do pre flip reads but I disagree with this a lot actually - it is bad if she starts playing around pre flips, but expressing her thoughts on a potential flip is something I find to be a bit more towny albeit easy to fake as scum as well as it helps you set up your read progression in case you get a mislynch through. But the counter argument to that in this case is in my opinion that shelly has been all over the playerlist. I am pretty sure she has called out everyone for something at this point and has engaged with everyone. I have no idea if this is out of her scumrange or not but to me her play jsut comes across as coming from a town perspective.

I still find redados suspicious for the exact same reasons I listed earlier. He hasn't really managed to change my mind, my only concern is still that it almost feels hm I guess too easy? There's not really much defense or counter pressure, it does not mean he isn't scum but it just makes me a bit concerned

As for Saudade I just mentioned it before.

I don't really know about the rest. In fact I am trying to avoid reading you at the moment noraa because every time I try to read you I keep thinking that this could simply be explained by you being a new player. I am kind of leaning of some of the meta reads being thrown at you

can someone explain to me how any of the scumreads from duppin are remotely justified or reasonable? they are super duper weak.

[Tayl0r Swift]

@Plus im not going ISO diving rn. Im busy. find it urself. I assure u its there

@Taylor plenty of people have had weaker reads. If ur going based off of that, I dont get why ur not on the redados wagon

its not just the weakness of the read. its the lack of attempt to explain scumreads and then the doubling down and refusing to cooperate or look for scummy posts. scum have a hard time faking scumhunting. heres someone who is semi-capable of townhunting or stating reasons why people should be town, but then is SUPER fence-sitty in all scumreads, gives no explanations, and yet states scumreads. like i dont think you get to state scumreads but then also fence-sit and not give reasons.

[Tayl0r Swift]

You attacked me for using my newbie card in doggos and I'm sure as hell sure that I was newer in doggos than you are here

I have four completed games and I have never been limmed during the day, only nightkilled. I've never had a serious wagon on me before. does that help explain what I'm saying?

so you were town in all those games?

[Tayl0r Swift]

You attacked me for using my newbie card in doggos and I'm sure as hell sure that I was newer in doggos than you are here

I have four completed games and I have never been limmed during the day, only nightkilled. I've never had a serious wagon on me before. does that help explain what I'm saying?

I have two finished games and I haven't used my noob card here.

Congratulations!

uk that read really bad for u right?

nope, spell it out for me.

I-T

need any other help?

[Tayl0r Swift]

someone towncase duppin for me.

[Tayl0r Swift]

someone pls towncase duppin

[Tayl0r Swift]

or could someone respond to my case against duppin with more than "other people are scummy too"

[Tayl0r Swift]

someone pls towncase duppin

nah i don't remember his stuff at all really

then do me a favor and go read. its not that long an iso, you dont have to read the whole thing. just like the most recent half maybe? or hell, just find a couple posts that you think are super towny

[Tayl0r Swift]

im being completely ignored, meanwhile everyone is totally caught up in this shitfight which is probably TVT, and the posts going back and forth arent even any good.

"youre scum!"
"no youre scum!"
"how dare you call me scum you must be scum"
"wow thats OMGUS, so you must be scum"
"youre tunneled on me, so youre scum"
"you dont even have any arguments for calling me scum, so youre scum"

[Tayl0r Swift]

norwee can you do some analysis of duppin for me?

[Tayl0r Swift]

Why are you so interested in Duppin

1) scmmy posts. like really scummy
2) the gamestate is bad, the current wagons are shit
3) everyone seems to not want to look at duppin which makes me want to look at duppin even more

[Tayl0r Swift]

not only is everyone ignoring my posts about duppin, but everyone is giving duppin a pass for refusing to engage me.

[Tayl0r Swift]

yeah but ive been bringing it up repeatedly. and ive asked people specifically to comment. plus refused. youre not doing it

[Tayl0r Swift]

odds of {norwee, plus, duppin}?

[Tayl0r Swift]

Tbh, if Duppin is scum he's the type of player i'd never catch D1.
He just seems really chill and gentlemanlike.

thats totally NAI. can you please read the iso and tell me what you think?

[Tayl0r Swift]

uno, i feel like i can trust you. please look over duppin's iso and tell me what you think of it, too

[Tayl0r Swift]

Tbh, if Duppin is scum he's the type of player i'd never catch D1.
He just seems really chill and gentlemanlike.

thats totally NAI. can you please read the iso and tell me what you think?

Nothing really sticks out to me as super scummy from my skim of his ISO.
Maybe some of his townreads could be TMI, but that's it.

do you follow any of his logic on any of his stated scumreads? you dont see any AI content in any of duppin's posts then? nothing that lets you sort duppin?

[Tayl0r Swift]

also and this is such a garbage read but i just cant help myself and no one should try to pursue it but part of me can't help but wonder if jackson and mini replaced out because one of them accidently learned the others alignment in which case it would make sense if they already replaced out, but i just think it would be even more likely if the alignment was scum. but yeah this is just a non sense theory for post game

This post.

ok good thats a strange post but to me its just ??
that doesnt help me sort duppin without more context. does that ping you one way or another? if so, why?

[Tayl0r Swift]

also and this is such a garbage read but i just cant help myself and no one should try to pursue it but part of me can't help but wonder if jackson and mini replaced out because one of them accidently learned the others alignment in which case it would make sense if they already replaced out, but i just think it would be even more likely if the alignment was scum. but yeah this is just a non sense theory for post game

This post.

ok good thats a strange post but to me its just ??
that doesnt help me sort duppin without more context. does that ping you one way or another? if so, why?

Idk, i want him to explain what made him think the thoughts he did there.

well why didnt you ask him? youre kinda leaving it there in a post directed at me. and again, what do you think of duppin's scumreads?

[Tayl0r Swift]

@redados, what do you think of duppin's reasoning for his scumreads?

[Tayl0r Swift]

what do you think of duppin's scumreads?

Idk, he seems to be voting Saudade mainly so there's not much to say about it.

but what do you think of the reasoning for the stated scumreads?

[Tayl0r Swift]

I was okay with Tayl0r's predecessor but not sure what to think of the slot at the moment. I know Jester already asked you to explain why you find his read on Saudade opportunistic but I would also really like to hear your read on Saudade since you did throw slight shade towards him earlier saying him being silent is a scum tell, I am well aware you were being sarcstic about your vast experience with him but still you never mentioned him after that.

actually i'd also like to hear your read on Mundivore since you said one of their posts concerned you but then you never mentioned them after that either

thats basically how i operate. youre gonna see me throwing some random shit at random walls for a while until i get settled

sure that's fair, but i would still like to hear your read on Saudade

Hrm. I'm tired of all the fluff.

It feels like there hasn't been any really consequential scumhunting at all in these entire forty-two pages. Nobody has made behavior with actual

stakes

. I don't know if I can confidently eliminate even a single pair of scumbuddies with any degree of confidence.

Things won't happen unless town starts voting for people. I've been part of the problem, but it's easy enough to fix.

VOTE: Saudade to E-2.

I actually don't like this wagon. I like Saudade for town. However, either this entices scum out to put more votes on people, or I get shown a more compelling wagon, right? But somebody really needs to start taking risks for us to actually

learn

things.

why do you like saudade for town?

If I'm going to be honest? It's simply because I don't understand the cases against them, and because nothing they've said pinged my scum radar. I've not gotten a gut 'ping' against them, and with the amount of output this thread is creating, keeping up with it is all I can do. Rereads are prohibitive with how long this thread is. If you still feel like your case is strong, and can succinctly summarize it or easily reach a link back to the primary context, I'd appreciate it.

hm okay i can maybe buy this, my initial concern was that Saudade had done absolutely nothing to warrant a town read in my opinion (unless it's a meta read of course). Don't get me wrong I don't think Saudade has been super scummy either but i find it slightly suspicious if someone has a townread on him because it gives me the impression they know something i do not. It actually makes me lean slightly more towards Saudade possibly being town simply due to the fact that I have a hard time understanding how a town player would have a townread on him at this point especially since several of the players in this thread seem to suggest that Saudade is a really good player. I have personally never played with him before but if he is a strong player then it does not really make sense to me that people are townread him when he hasn't really done anything so far since he has some real life stuff going on at the moment. so yeah when you call a townread on him to me it comes across as you trying to gain some towncred in case he is town and is mislynched, and the fact that you voted on him even though you thought he was town is just.. weird. It gave me the impression you wanted to vote on him but wanted to avoid the lashback at all cost in case he is mislynched (if we assume he is town in this scenario), but on the other hand I just think it's such a weird way for you to do that if you are scum

this is a lot of words and fence-sitting with no actual analysis or attempt to solve.

duppin who are your scumreads and townreads atm?

i can do a proper case later. in the meantime, norwee what are your current reads and why?

[Tayl0r Swift]

let the records show that norwee refused to take a firm stance on duppin.

[Tayl0r Swift]

he also hasnt given any proper reasons for any scumreads.

[Tayl0r Swift]

I mean Taylor, has either redados or plus had any good reasons to back any SRs up?

Btw autocorrect should apologize to duppin for being an ass

theyve done more. shelly is being shelly which isnt particularly helpful, but i dunno if its scummy. shelly is trying. i mean your reasons for scumreading people are also super weak imo, but youre trying. i know that this is the way you always are. you always tunnel for no reason and base your reads on things i dont understand at all. but i see that its normal for you. so i dont think its AI.

[Tayl0r Swift]

Why are u SRing based on activity? Plus' reads have been terrible so far. They all sound far more scummy than duppins. Redados' and duppin's r basically the same but still. My reasons have started a wagon that is the biggest wagon so far. I dont "always tunnel for no reason" That literally describes redados perfectly. It's normal for me to hear something really scummy and cling to it until I get a flip, yes. But someones gotta say something pretty damn scummy for me to do that...

im not scum reading by activity. readados has done some things that to me show town, which is why i moved off the wagon and stated i think redados is scum. plus just got here. plus is scummy but plus is always a bit scummy.

[Tayl0r Swift]

also and this is such a garbage read but i just cant help myself and no one should try to pursue it but part of me can't help but wonder if jackson and mini replaced out because one of them accidently learned the others alignment in which case it would make sense if they already replaced out, but i just think it would be even more likely if the alignment was scum. but yeah this is just a non sense theory for post game

This post.

ok good thats a strange post but to me its just ??
that doesnt help me sort duppin without more context. does that ping you one way or another? if so, why?

The logic definitely makes sense to me but yes we aren't supposed to talk about it so lets just drop this point.

what do you think of duppin's scumreads?

Idk, he seems to be voting Saudade mainly so there's not much to say about it.

I agree. I see some soft tunneling from him on Saudade which is a bit strange. Saudade has posted so few posts and duping kinda just strikes me as a player that saw saudade as a lil sus or easy limbait(depending on alignment) and basically skimmed everything else and decided to cling to saudade and not let go for the life of him.

When Saudade started posting several players called him out for how good he was and someone said this was his town meta etc but I thought he was suspicious and questioned him. I have never played with him before so what makes you form the conclusion that I would see him as an easy lynch at that point? Mind you this was before he went V/LA

but since then youve found nothing anyone else has done to be scummy? why is your vote parked on someone not here to defend himself?

[Tayl0r Swift]

Spoiler:

Duppin attention is interesting, I thought he had townie vibes earlier but I guess there are some questions worth asking.

@duppin

-If you agreed with sus!redados why not join the wagon for pressure when it became clear saudade would not be returning any time soon?

Because he is already being pushed so I'd rather have my vote on Saudade to keep pressure on him. I am well aware he said he would be V/LA for 3 days but it ended up being longer.
I understand that he has some IRL stuff to deal with and I hope everything is fine, but I also hope he manages to return before he is replaced since a replacement would most likely result in me not gaining much information from the slot this day.

-Are you aware (1404) that Jester floated the exact same theory when they first replaced out?

No I was not actually but i dont really think it means anything whatsoever unless he actually wants to pursue it which I'd be opposed to. I just brought it up for cheap postgame cred in case it is what happened. I am curious though, what exactly was the point of this question?

-Do you consider "he was actively trying to solve the game when he could have easily just camped his vote" to be a still accurate assessment of bugspray?

i've pinged them out a couple of times now asking for them to follow up on their notes. I still think what they did was a pretty big towntell though, but I will gladly admit that they have dropped a bit and if it continues like this I will definitely revaluate my read on them day 2.
But for day 1 I have no interest in pushing them.

duppin. you need to explain your reads. you stated some reads but i have no idea why you believe anything that you say you believe.

hm see I have explained all of the reads I have given. I was under the impression that if you were town you reaching out to me was because you were trying to solve my slot, but the impression I am getting is that you have not tried to ISO me and you don't seem to be reading what I am saying either, so I'm beginning to question your motivation actually

this is a straight up lie. you have not explained your reasons for scumreading or townreading anyone. ive asked you to do so repeatedly and you keep deflecting and asking me questions. CITE SPECIFIC POSTS THAT MADE YOU SCUMREAD SOMEONE. i dont care who. just go through an ISO of someone you scumread and explain which posts made you scumread them. stating a scumread is not the same as explaining it. theres 0 game-advancing content coming from you.

I am not sure why you believe it is a straight up lie, it is relatively simple to ISO me to confirm it is not a lie. I have given an explanation for all of my reads including the players I found suspicious.
Whether you approve or disapprove of my reasoning is up to you, but claiming I have not given an explanation is factually wrong.

duppin. you need to explain your reads. you stated some reads but i have no idea why you believe anything that you say you believe.

hm see I have explained all of the reads I have given. I was under the impression that if you were town you reaching out to me was because you were trying to solve my slot, but the impression I am getting is that you have not tried to ISO me and you don't seem to be reading what I am saying either, so I'm beginning to question your motivation actually

this is a straight up lie. you have not explained your reasons for scumreading or townreading anyone. ive asked you to do so repeatedly and you keep deflecting and asking me questions. CITE SPECIFIC POSTS THAT MADE YOU SCUMREAD SOMEONE. i dont care who. just go through an ISO of someone you scumread and explain which posts made you scumread them. stating a scumread is not the same as explaining it. theres 0 game-advancing content coming from you.

There is no lie here and it is also relatively simple to ISO me to confirm it is not a lie. I have given an explanation for all of my reads including the players I found suspicious.
Whether you approve or disapprove of my reasoning is up to you, but claiming I have not given an explanation is factually wrong.

duppin is 90% scum here.

well your math seems to be a bit off as I am 100% town

can someone explain to me how any of the scumreads from duppin are remotely justified or reasonable? they are super duper weak.

Now see this is where it gets a bit more interesting, because from this point you change your push. Initially you said I provided no explanation for my reads at all even when I did, but from this point you seem to be changing the angle and instead claim that my scumreads are not reasonable. See this is a totally different thing and I think this is a much more valid opinion for you have rather than just calling me a liar. Also by the way if you are town I'd just like to point out you are being rather hypocritical when you claim I have been deflecting and so on (which I have not) when you have been avoiding a lot of questions and I had to ask you multiple times before you would even acknowledge the question. The only reason I mention this is that if you are town then I think it is odd for you to find something suspicious that you do so yourself - perhaps in the sense that it does not seem logical to conclude something that you do yourself as town is coming from a scum perspective if someone else does it. However I will stand by my statement that I did not avoid your deflect any of your questions and I will gladly challenge your claim so feel free to point out where I did that.

Anyway back on topic the fact that you change your push here seems to back up my earlier impression that you hadn't really read my posts properly or attempted to ISO me when you initially started pushing on me.
If you think my reasoning for my scumreads are weak that's fair, it is what it is I am not really looking for approval especially not for day 1 scum reads. Saying I have not explained them however is just not true.

i didnt change my tune. unreasonable = not only lacking reasons but lacking a baseline level of attempt to demonstrate that youre gamesolving. you still to this point have not pointed out a single post from a single player you thought was scummy. i dont give you cred for saying you think people are scummy if you cant even justify your stated scumread with a single post. and ive asked you repeatedly now to point out posts that are scummy, and you havent done so.

ive answered all your questions. its one thing to not see a question and then answer it on follow-up. youre blatantly ignoring my questions, which i have now asked at least half a dozen times. show me WHY you scumread the people you do. "hes supposed to be good but hes afk instead!!!" isnt a valid reason.

[Tayl0r Swift]

My vote was parked there because I expected him to show up after the V/LA ended and still kind of hope for him to show up. Just because he has been V/LA does not mean I do not want to pressure his slot.

In hindsight I definitely agree I could have pursued different angles, but my other scumread was already the leading wagon at that point so.
As for anyone else doing something scummy - sure they have, which is why I have questioned them on it. I have also gained more townreads as the game has progressed which I am perfectly content with for a day 1 especially one this spammy

ok, pick someone else you scumread and scumcase them.

[Tayl0r Swift]

but you did change your tune, I don't really understand how you can deny that. Whether it was intentional or not, you certainly did. You initially claimed I did not explain any of my reads at all and then later when you (presumely) read my post again since you quoted it you changed it to my scumreads not being reasonable.

Also which questions have I ignored? I have responded to all of your posts. I have also explained why I find Saudade suspicious which you would not if you had ISOed me.
My impression was that Saudade was trying to get by with his apparent reputation by just posting to be heard rather than actually trying to solve the game

there is NO REASONING for any of your scumreads, so they are UNREASONABLE. i keep asking you to provide reasons because there ARENT ANY REASONS

[Tayl0r Swift]

My vote was parked there because I expected him to show up after the V/LA ended and still kind of hope for him to show up. Just because he has been V/LA does not mean I do not want to pressure his slot.

In hindsight I definitely agree I could have pursued different angles, but my other scumread was already the leading wagon at that point so.
As for anyone else doing something scummy - sure they have, which is why I have questioned them on it. I have also gained more townreads as the game has progressed which I am perfectly content with for a day 1 especially one this spammy

ok, pick someone else you scumread and scumcase them.

But these are my scumreads. Why should I force scumreads?

but you did change your tune, I don't really understand how you can deny that. Whether it was intentional or not, you certainly did. You initially claimed I did not explain any of my reads at all and then later when you (presumely) read my post again since you quoted it you changed it to my scumreads not being reasonable.

Also which questions have I ignored? I have responded to all of your posts. I have also explained why I find Saudade suspicious which you would not if you had ISOed me.
My impression was that Saudade was trying to get by with his apparent reputation by just posting to be heard rather than actually trying to solve the game

there is NO REASONING for any of your scumreads, so they are UNREASONABLE. i keep asking you to provide reasons because there ARENT ANY REASONS

But there are reasons. You disliking the reasons does not mean there aren't reasons.

"saudade is supposed to be good but instead hes afk" isnt a reason.
who are your scumreads? saudade and? walk me through one other than saudade

[Tayl0r Swift]

I never said at any point that my scumread on Saudade had to do with him being afk. See this is why I am really confused as to why you do not just ISO me.

I admitted when I engaged Saudade that my read on him might be influenced by the players hyping him up yes but my read on him was that he was posting to be heard rather than to gamesolve. To me it felt like he was trying to play very safe and I thought it was really odd how he on one hand also hyped his own "god reads" yet on the other hand also pushed the "no reads this early" - and I am perfectly aware that it is on one hand a reasonable enough statement to not have good reads early on, but it felt off to me plus his posts overall felt like he just wanted to make sure people noticed him which I think is scummy. My first idea was to give him some time to see what he would do but then out of nowhere he engaged Norwee and Norwee reacted really well in my opinion and gave me a townread on him plus he voted on Saudade and then I was tempted to join the wagon to see what Saudade would do so I joined. Shortly after that he went V/LA. So ultimately nothing has happened since to really sway my initial impressions of him.

The other scumread I gave early on was on Redados. I have also explained my reasoning for this several times.
I think it would be easiest to refer to this post actually since this was the gist of it:

duppin what other reads do you have

i don't really concur with your red read, fwiw he seems pretty disagreeable by thinking that the game is moving in a direction he dislikes

yes but just complaining about the state and not attempting to move it in a direction is suspicious to me. he seems to be complaining about the game state and being very careful with his reads (he essentially ended up only giving town reads) which to me indicate is trying to avoid confrontation while still appearing active. I am perfectly aware it might be too early to tell but that is the impression I am left with

As I said when I gave my reads before he hasn't really done much to change my mind. No matter what his alignment is I believe he is too caught up on Noora's push on him.
What I will say though is that I am actually a bit surprised with his latest posts as I did not expect him to defend me. If he is scum it seems more logical for him to at least try to discredit me a little bit since I called him scummy.

point to specific posts where redados posted in a way that intentionally didnt advance the gamestate. why is it scummy rather than just useless? you essentially have only given townreads. getting a scumread from you is like pulling teeth. why not move your vote of saudade? its useless there? can you point to specific instances where saudade is "playing it safe"? again, why are these scummy rather than NAI?

[Tayl0r Swift]

I expected him to return when his V/LA ended. I am not trying to blame him as I understand that he had some irl things to deal with and that is obviously more important.

ok but now your vote has been effectively useless for four days during which you have done nothing to advance the game.

[Tayl0r Swift]

I never SRed him in the first place and its just annoying me that people are continuing to sus him cuz there's no point. Theres is ZERO WAY we will get a saudade lim today. Why not put that away for a bit and bring it back when he gets back? Discussing him now is a terrible idea and there's no point

i mean i kind of get your point but i also kind of disagree with the sentiment as it would be easy to just go v/la to avoid pressure as scum then (obviously not what Saudade did, just saying)

it seems pretty clear that saudade gets a pass for inactivity here. i think we all also had scumpings before that, but it behooves us to wait for saudade to return or get replaced before doing anything. voteparking isnt helpful.

[Tayl0r Swift]

I never said at any point that my scumread on Saudade had to do with him being afk. See this is why I am really confused as to why you do not just ISO me.

I admitted when I engaged Saudade that my read on him might be influenced by the players hyping him up yes but my read on him was that he was posting to be heard rather than to gamesolve. To me it felt like he was trying to play very safe and I thought it was really odd how he on one hand also hyped his own "god reads" yet on the other hand also pushed the "no reads this early" - and I am perfectly aware that it is on one hand a reasonable enough statement to not have good reads early on, but it felt off to me plus his posts overall felt like he just wanted to make sure people noticed him which I think is scummy. My first idea was to give him some time to see what he would do but then out of nowhere he engaged Norwee and Norwee reacted really well in my opinion and gave me a townread on him plus he voted on Saudade and then I was tempted to join the wagon to see what Saudade would do so I joined. Shortly after that he went V/LA. So ultimately nothing has happened since to really sway my initial impressions of him.

The other scumread I gave early on was on Redados. I have also explained my reasoning for this several times.
I think it would be easiest to refer to this post actually since this was the gist of it:

duppin what other reads do you have

i don't really concur with your red read, fwiw he seems pretty disagreeable by thinking that the game is moving in a direction he dislikes

yes but just complaining about the state and not attempting to move it in a direction is suspicious to me. he seems to be complaining about the game state and being very careful with his reads (he essentially ended up only giving town reads) which to me indicate is trying to avoid confrontation while still appearing active. I am perfectly aware it might be too early to tell but that is the impression I am left with

As I said when I gave my reads before he hasn't really done much to change my mind. No matter what his alignment is I believe he is too caught up on Noora's push on him.
What I will say though is that I am actually a bit surprised with his latest posts as I did not expect him to defend me. If he is scum it seems more logical for him to at least try to discredit me a little bit since I called him scummy.

point to specific posts where redados posted in a way that intentionally didnt advance the gamestate. why is it scummy rather than just useless? you essentially have only given townreads. getting a scumread from you is like pulling teeth. why not move your vote of saudade? its useless there? can you point to specific instances where saudade is "playing it safe"? again, why are these scummy rather than NAI?

You are choosing to label duppins "unhelpful ness" as scummy while ignoring redados'. I'm with duppin on this one.

I never SRed him in the first place and its just annoying me that people are continuing to sus him cuz there's no point. Theres is ZERO WAY we will get a saudade lim today. Why not put that away for a bit and bring it back when he gets back? Discussing him now is a terrible idea and there's no point

i mean i kind of get your point but i also kind of disagree with the sentiment as it would be easy to just go v/la to avoid pressure as scum then (obviously not what Saudade did, just saying)

since we all agree he didn't do that, then drop it until he is replaced or back. I repeat one last time : THERE. IS. NO. POINT. Because we will NOT get a Saudade lim today so long as he's not back and if he comes back from whatever issues he had irl and sees everyone tunneling the hell outta him, all he's gonna do is be really scummy cuz he's gonna be pissed.

duppin isnt merely unhelpful with his reads and useless with his vote. his reasoning is scummy because hes fence-sitting and unable to justify scumreads. redados in contrast is trying. redados has some posts that usually only come from town. there are reasons to think redados is townie. there are no reasons to think duppin is town.

[Tayl0r Swift]

As I said when I gave my reads before he hasn't really done much to change my mind. No matter what his alignment is I believe he is too caught up on Noora's push on him.
What I will say though is that I am actually a bit surprised with his latest posts as I did not expect him to defend me. If he is scum it seems more logical for him to at least try to discredit me a little bit since I called him scummy.

My current limpool is {noraa, unowen, mundivore, shelly} although I'll probably have to widen that to avoid a mislim of course.

Where is bugspray?

Where is mundivore?? Mundivore has done very little hunting today and has stayed mostly under the radar. VOTE: Mundivore

wtf? Why are u voting a really inactive slot now?
VOTE: Redados
ur so scummy its unbelievable

mundivore is a totally valid vote. i think you have a right to ask redados to better explain his reasoning for the vote and scumread, but i also scumread mundivore and have said as much. being lurky does not make you immune to pressure unless you have irl stuff that means you cant be on the site, as in saudade's case.

[Tayl0r Swift]

I never said at any point that my scumread on Saudade had to do with him being afk. See this is why I am really confused as to why you do not just ISO me.

I admitted when I engaged Saudade that my read on him might be influenced by the players hyping him up yes but my read on him was that he was posting to be heard rather than to gamesolve. To me it felt like he was trying to play very safe and I thought it was really odd how he on one hand also hyped his own "god reads" yet on the other hand also pushed the "no reads this early" - and I am perfectly aware that it is on one hand a reasonable enough statement to not have good reads early on, but it felt off to me plus his posts overall felt like he just wanted to make sure people noticed him which I think is scummy. My first idea was to give him some time to see what he would do but then out of nowhere he engaged Norwee and Norwee reacted really well in my opinion and gave me a townread on him plus he voted on Saudade and then I was tempted to join the wagon to see what Saudade would do so I joined. Shortly after that he went V/LA. So ultimately nothing has happened since to really sway my initial impressions of him.

The other scumread I gave early on was on Redados. I have also explained my reasoning for this several times.
I think it would be easiest to refer to this post actually since this was the gist of it:

duppin what other reads do you have

i don't really concur with your red read, fwiw he seems pretty disagreeable by thinking that the game is moving in a direction he dislikes

yes but just complaining about the state and not attempting to move it in a direction is suspicious to me. he seems to be complaining about the game state and being very careful with his reads (he essentially ended up only giving town reads) which to me indicate is trying to avoid confrontation while still appearing active. I am perfectly aware it might be too early to tell but that is the impression I am left with

As I said when I gave my reads before he hasn't really done much to change my mind. No matter what his alignment is I believe he is too caught up on Noora's push on him.
What I will say though is that I am actually a bit surprised with his latest posts as I did not expect him to defend me. If he is scum it seems more logical for him to at least try to discredit me a little bit since I called him scummy.

point to specific posts where redados posted in a way that intentionally didnt advance the gamestate. why is it scummy rather than just useless? you essentially have only given townreads. getting a scumread from you is like pulling teeth. why not move your vote of saudade? its useless there? can you point to specific instances where saudade is "playing it safe"? again, why are these scummy rather than NAI?

No it is not like pulling a teeth, because I have explained the read several times and have been very open about it.
Also could you just ISO me already. I engage both of the players.

point me to specific posts of redados you think are scummy. or point me to specific posts of yours where youve already done so.

do you have any scumreads other than redados and saudade?

[Tayl0r Swift]

I'm semi-upset that we're on page 15 and it feels like we just left RVS. Not cool.

i have to admit that i really dislike this post. also credited Shelly for finally moving the game out of rvs in 154, i can appreciate the fact that perhaps the game didn't move in the direction you wanted but yeah.
overall you come across as really careful to me which i find suspicious

this is your best scumhunting post of all the posts where you directly engaged with redados. you point out something you see as "suspicious" but not why we should view it as scummy rather than just a bad NAI post.

[Tayl0r Swift]

yes but just complaining about the state and not attempting to move it in a direction is suspicious to me. he seems to be complaining about the game state and being very careful with his reads (he essentially ended up only giving town reads) which to me indicate is trying to avoid confrontation while still appearing active. I am perfectly aware it might be too early to tell but that is the impression I am left with

redados SR'd saude, didnt he?

but you've made your point, I'll sort redados later as I have experience with them, for now I want to sort you + Grendel first

But he did absolutely nothing with it. He did not try to engage anyone or push which lead to me thinking he is trying to avoid confrontation.

and this is kinda fair, but redados has since engaged with people and done some good stuff. you havent. and you havent really pushed anyone except for the eight posts you pointed out to me, of which half were not doing anything except repeating/not really pressuring but just pointing stuff out with surface-level analysis. we are now 50 pages into the game and you've expressed one scumread based on meta that other people presented, and one scum read based on really weak arguments that you havent done much to follow up on and havent done much with. I cant follow your progessions at all, and i find it hard to believe that your only scumreads are an inactive player based on a sheeped meta-read and a weak "you havent done enough solving" argument that id say isnt even true anymore.

[Tayl0r Swift]

Tayl0r by the way are you an alt or a new player?

im not an alt.

[Tayl0r Swift]

yes but just complaining about the state and not attempting to move it in a direction is suspicious to me. he seems to be complaining about the game state and being very careful with his reads (he essentially ended up only giving town reads) which to me indicate is trying to avoid confrontation while still appearing active. I am perfectly aware it might be too early to tell but that is the impression I am left with

redados SR'd saude, didnt he?

but you've made your point, I'll sort redados later as I have experience with them, for now I want to sort you + Grendel first

But he did absolutely nothing with it. He did not try to engage anyone or push which lead to me thinking he is trying to avoid confrontation.

and this is kinda fair, but redados has since engaged with people and done some good stuff. you havent. and you havent really pushed anyone except for the eight posts you pointed out to me, of which half were not doing anything except repeating/not really pressuring but just pointing stuff out with surface-level analysis. we are now 50 pages into the game and you've expressed one scumread based on meta that other people presented, and one scum read based on really weak arguments that you havent done much to follow up on and havent done much with. I cant follow your progessions at all, and i find it hard to believe that your only scumreads are an inactive player based on a sheeped meta-read and a weak "you havent done enough solving" argument that id say isnt even true anymore.

also it doesnt seem like your reads have developed in the past 30 pages, which makes it increasingly likely that you just picked a couple people to scumread and stuck with it, which is what scum sometimes do

[Tayl0r Swift]

davesaz could you do me a favor and look over duppin's iso a bit more and tell me what you think?

[Tayl0r Swift]

this is a bad reason for a vote on someone.

sometimes your vote doesn’t need to be on your biggest scumread
we need to get a lim through and you’re going today most likely

am i? thats news. interesting. well guess i should make my peace. take a close look at dupping tomorrow when i flip green. good luck!

[Tayl0r Swift]

how are people letting duppin get away with not explaining reads at all? everyone who posts about duppin seems to agree that the posts are bad, but theres no momentum towards the wagon, and immediately a shitty counterwagon forms on me.

duppin is 90% scum here.

can you actually *case* duppin for once
can you explain instead of saying that “they have no reads” which isn’t strictly AI

having no reads on page 70 is strictly AI. its fucking ridiculously scummy because it suggests that you arent reading the thread and trying to solve. town needs to read the thread and solve, scum can just coast by and hope not too much pressure mounts on their scumbuddies.

anyway, here is the case:

duppin has not had any read progression in 50 pages now.
duppin cannot point to specific posts that make him scumread him. after being pressed for an extended period duppin pointed to one post where there was a decent level of engagement with a slot he says he scumreads. one post.
duppin's vote has been parked on a slot who is inactive for irl reasons and has since done almost nothing to solve.
duppin is very wishy-washy in reads, and seems capable basically of stating a townread-ish, but cant justify scumreads. that sort of inability to scumhunt is generally a sign that the person is scum, since scum have difficulty scumhunting.
when pressed to produce content and reads, duppin points exclusively to posts he has already made, which suggests that duppin is unable to engage critically with the game and that he is concerned with not contradicting himself. if his scumreads were genuine he would be able to give off-the-cuff reads and be more spontaneous.

all of these are things that are not only anti-town and bad, but more than likely come from a scum mindset. theres no genuine scumhunting. if hes town he really needs to step it up, but the way hes been attempting to deflect my pressure suggests that he isnt engaging with me in good faith.

and then theres the fact that no one has been willing to move their vote or get on board. if a townie is really really insistent on pressuring another town slot, usually scum are willing to hop on the wagon and see where it goes, because they dont have to lead the wagon and the fight is TvT. since i expressed my scumread on duppin a counterwagon has formed on me, but no one has moved to vote duppin. what does that tell you?

ive asked multiple people and no one has been able to walk me through duppin's logic on his reads and show me that they are able to see any sort of progression. some people are lazy - and fair enough. but at this point everyone who has put in legwork has said that they thought duppin is at least somewhat scummy.

[Tayl0r Swift]

not only is everyone ignoring my posts about duppin, but everyone is giving duppin a pass for refusing to engage me.

im finding it interesting that you nullbin / ignore interactions of the entire plist except duppin and hard tunnel them
which makes me think youre not having a town agenda of trying to sort everyone

at what point did i say everyone else was null?

ive pretty clearly stated a number of townreads, and duppin is not my only scumread.

[Tayl0r Swift]

finally ive finished the 12 pages

i think norwayVplus is kinda TvS-ish, with the lack of coherent logic
I think taylor is my top SR
plusjoy is still a scummy slot
scumpings on noraa has increased but might just be LHF
if taylor is red duppin is probgreen
norwee has now become nullish
redados is townleaning with the pushes and mentality i see a townie mindset tbh
mundivore iso isnt exactly great but i want to see more content
jester still town
hot take i kinda SR bugs for not giving us his notes but stating he has notes in notes pt. moving out of rvs is nai and idk why hes getting so much cred for it.

ok now that you're voting for me im gonna need you to explain why you scumread me exactly. and why do you think duppin is town?

please cite specific posts.

[Tayl0r Swift]

to correct post 1818 above:

duppin cannot point to specific posts that make him scumread *anyone*

[Tayl0r Swift]

My current limpool is {noraa, unowen, mundivore, shelly}

what do you think of norway and taylor aorn?
do you concur with any of those pushes?

finally ive finished the 12 pages

i think norwayVplus is kinda TvS-ish, with the lack of coherent logic
I think taylor is my top SR
plusjoy is still a scummy slot
scumpings on noraa has increased but might just be LHF
if taylor is red duppin is probgreen
norwee has now become nullish
redados is townleaning with the pushes and mentality i see a townie mindset tbh
mundivore iso isnt exactly great but i want to see more content
jester still town
hot take i kinda SR bugs for not giving us his notes but stating he has notes in notes pt. moving out of rvs is nai and idk why hes getting so much cred for it.

what happened between these two posts that made you go from norwee!scum to norwee!null? i realize you read 12 pages but uh.. you didnt point to ANY POSTS THAT CHANGED YOUR MIND

[Tayl0r Swift]

at what point did i say everyone else was null?

at least from the vibe I get you’re just hard tunnelling duppin and ignoring that whole conflict

i did weigh in on that. i weighed in on it a bunch, tried to convince you all to stop, and then decided you werent going to listen to reason so i was just gonna start leaving you alone and going and doing my own scumhunting elsewhere. in what world does scum!me do that rather than just let the town duke it out?

and no you dont need to do play by play or to quote posts. i frequently just state gutreads. but like im trying to understand your progression here, and if you just say "i townread x" and then 100 posts later say "i scumread x" then im left saying ????????
so you need to show me your progression somehow. since you havent done it any other way im asking for you to at least point me to the posts where you changed your mind.

[Tayl0r Swift]

finally ive finished the 12 pages

i think norwayVplus is kinda TvS-ish, with the lack of coherent logic
I think taylor is my top SR
plusjoy is still a scummy slot
scumpings on noraa has increased but might just be LHF
if taylor is red duppin is probgreen
norwee has now become nullish
redados is townleaning with the pushes and mentality i see a townie mindset tbh
mundivore iso isnt exactly great but i want to see more content
jester still town
hot take i kinda SR bugs for not giving us his notes but stating he has notes in notes pt. moving out of rvs is nai and idk why hes getting so much cred for it.

ok now that you're voting for me im gonna need you to explain why you scumread me exactly. and why do you think duppin is town?

please cite specific posts.

I never scumread Norway, I asked you to elaborate on Norway

thats true. you actually consistently expressed a townread on norwee. now its null. so what happened there?

[Tayl0r Swift]

the vote has deeper reasons, i did a quick iso skim and i felt the ping a few times, i think if saud is not lying about depression and is indeed town then the wagon's long lasting momentum was almost certainly supported by scum that want to make townies waste their precious thinking time on a wagon that they don't expect anyone to actually hammer. it reminds me of reservoir dogs ddu (where i was mr pink) how i kept tring to roleplay that the rats (scum) were just yap yapping and preventing meaningful discussion from taking place

this makes it sound like youre the one doing what you did in that scumgame of yours...

[Tayl0r Swift]

reservoir dogs? you brought it up

[Tayl0r Swift]

okay ti was "scumgame of yours" but that still implies that you believe I was scum in the game I am referring to

yep. and thats how i read your post. you scumreading me for that is ??

[Tayl0r Swift]

Odd jester is an universal TR.
Everyone sheeps Odd jester= no scum can manipulate the wagons.

Let's just do that.

says scum manipulating the wagon

[Tayl0r Swift]

On ISO reread I still think duppin is town. I understand why the occasional text blocks that appear look like he is too concerned with explaining himself but I think that might just be his style, some of the arguments he makes are so meandering I don't know why he would bother with them as scum. The bugspray town read was not so lazily held as I thought it might be, he went back to bugs at least a couple of times which shows interest in actually solving. The Saudade vote continues to be a stain but I guess I can see why he would want to hold onto it when it was his major hook in the game and disappeared in a puff of smoke. Despite this focus, there is still an interest in the rest of the game throughout his posts and I can't detect any scum agenda.

i think this is right at this point. I don't like duppin's playstyle and think he's been incredibly lazy, but hes shown that him not articulating his position and thoughts doesnt mean they werent there. i wish hed contribute to the game with his vote and do a bit more, but for now ill UNVOTE:

i was very happy to come into the thread today and see that the wagons started to develop the way they ought to. mundivore sheeped me on the duppin wagon for reasons i dont fully understand, and norwee is pushing everyone to lunch me without even scumreading me! look at norwee's recent iso. he just wants blood.

hectic why arent you playing like your normal self here? is it just the gimmick account?

VOTE: norwee

[Tayl0r Swift]

after looking back through your iso i can find no evidence that you scumread me. also, why is derailing bad wagons scum indicative? i want to lunch scum.

[Tayl0r Swift]

And i don’t like Taylors push on Duppin at all. So that’s one of the reasons i’m ok voting there.

but like, can you elaborate the other reasons? your vote on me seems out of the blue and opportunistic, i dont see the progression in your iso at all

[Tayl0r Swift]

i was very happy to come into the thread today and see that the wagons started to develop the way they ought to. mundivore sheeped me on the duppin wagon for reasons i dont fully understand, and norwee is pushing everyone to lunch me without even scumreading me! look at norwee's recent iso. he just wants blood.

hectic why arent you playing like your normal self here? is it just the gimmick account?

Why are you happy about the way the wagons have developed if you have problems with Mundivore and Norwee's votes?

I don't know of this "hectic" person but I thought I'd meta him even though he's not in this game, and he seems like a good lad. How

do I

does he normally play?

one of the reasons i thought duppin was scum was the way the wagons and votes were moving. but the recent vote movements make a lot more sense and suggest that duppin could be town. or scum is covering by hopping on and doing stuff a bit late. but i think its indicative that duppin is town.

[Tayl0r Swift]

From my experience, when Tayl0r is obvscum they're obvscum. Dunno how they play as town yet.

Which game(s) gave you this impression?

one of the reasons i thought duppin was scum was the way the wagons and votes were moving. but the recent vote movements make a lot more sense and suggest that duppin could be town. or scum is covering by hopping on and doing stuff a bit late. but i think its indicative that duppin is town.

Why though? What specifically about the vote movements suggest he's town? If you mean the votes are moving unnaturally in that Mundivore weirdly sheeped you on duppin, then why did you say:

i was very happy to come into the thread today and see that the

wagons started to develop the way they ought to.

Also, if your argument is "duppin wasn't being pressured or voted when I was grilling him earlier, gave me the impression he was scum. But NOW, Mundivore has voted him, and I'd expect scum to hop onto someone I'm pushing so strongly so duppin might be town"

That implies

exactly

Mundivore is scum if you believe that, since no one else joined the duppin wagon. So, why aren't you pushing Mundivore?

hectic i loved your recent micro

<3 I liked your glub glubbing

yeah and i think both mundivore and norwee are scum. the wagon movements that i was expecting to see and eventually did were mundivore and norwee moving mainly. they hopped onto opposite sides of the wagon, neither expressed decent reasons or progression. yesterday i pressed norwee to weigh in on duppin, and norwee was fence-sitty and didnt show any signs of really evaluating the slot. then today norwee comes out and decides im scum for the push on town for ?? reaons, while mundivore hops on the opposite side of the wagon.

[Tayl0r Swift]

this post will be a bit of a mess, since the following quotes are norwee engaging/progressing on me, and sometimes norwee refers to me as taylor and sometimes as tayl0r which made the posts come in the wrong order when i searched. i hope i fixed the order.

Spoiler:

I was okay with Tayl0r's predecessor but not sure what to think of the slot at the moment. I know Jester already asked you to explain why you find his read on Saudade opportunistic but I would also really like to hear your read on Saudade since you did throw slight shade towards him earlier saying him being silent is a scum tell, I am well aware you were being sarcstic about your vast experience with him but still you never mentioned him after that.

Theory.
Tayl0r scumread Saudade before receiving her role pm. But then when she did receive it she realized Saudade was her scum teammate so she stopped focusing on him.

this one is just an odd tin-foil hat theory that isnt scummy necessarily, and norwee does immediately realize its silly and drop it, but still interesting

-snip-
what was the motivation for doing this jester? it seems like you were searching for an excuse to scumread someone rather than trying to sort someone.

redados and jester are topscum for me at this point.

VOTE: jester
but id also be happy to vote redados

Really not a fan of this post.
Ironically it feels like you're trying to find an excuse yourself to scumread Jester here. And your read seems too strong based on that flimsy evidence.

so im scummy

From my experience, when Tayl0r is obvscum they're obvscum. Dunno how they play as town yet.

if im scum it should be obvious

Redados town, Noraa probably tunneling town.
If this is correct then i like Taylor a bit more as well. I'm getting a tiny bit of a different vibe from them than Noir (Which i can start openly quoting now since the game ended). They were scum in that game so my gut is that they must be town in this game.

ok now im town because i should be obvscum and im not

reddish: reddados, grendel (taylor was better), mini,

This solve might be correct, but if it is, it's boring.

ok now im scum again

Honestly, shelly is efforting so much that she'll hopefully just spew herself as town/scum further down the line. It really does feel like this is her scummeta based on what I've seen, mostly from stuff she did early on, buuuut I'll shelve this for a bit.

VOTE: Tayl0r

Idk what i'm doing so i guess i'll sheep you. Tayl0r has been firm null for me anyway so not a bad place for me to place my vote.
VOTE: Tayl0r Swift

now im a firm null and apparently we are voting for firm nulls now

Tayl0r launch, people?

If it get's us out of this dreadful day then i'm all in.

any lunch as long as its lunchtime

im all in for it
been scumrading the slot to hell and back

PLUS YOU’RE JACKSON, im not a fan of the lamist

Tayl0r launch, people?

If it get's us out of this dreadful day then i'm all in.

Vote her then, we can ring her up to L-1 and get a claim today if we're efficient about it.

VOTE: Tayl0r Swift
Ok.

Now to start scumreading you five minutes later, oh wait that's Plusjoyed.

blatantly voting for the express purpose of getting a roleclaim.

norwee is pushing everyone to lunch me without even scumreading me!

I don't townread you. And Jester made good points on you.

now im a "non-townread" and its not norwee's fault if i flip town, because its jester's case! (btw see above how jester's reason for voting me is so that we can get a claim)

And i don’t like Taylors push on Duppin at all. So that’s one of the reasons i’m ok voting there.

ok let me give one reason for voting sorta without analyzing anything, and then say that i have more reasons.

this is not a genuine progression. at all.

[Tayl0r Swift]

tl;dr is that norwee's reads on me change constantly, but there is nothing in the iso that explains why. i go from scum to town to null to null but voting and now to scum? well norwee doesnt townread me, but norwee doesnt seem to scumread me either. norwee explicitly just wants a lunch and especially a claim from me. norwee said that based on meta i must be town yet here i am and norwee is also saying im probably scum (based on the vote, presumably norwee thinks im more likely scum than town)

[Tayl0r Swift]

hm this feels rather weird to me. Tayl0r unless I misunderstood you claim to have a townread on me now but I am unsure as to why that is actually, could you elaborate?

well im not sure about you atm. i still dont really buy a lot of the reasons you gave in your defense and i think your playstyle is lazy and helps scum. but i can sorta see the town mindset, and the way our wagons formed today suggests to me that this is TvT, more likely than not. its more that im fairly convinced that norwee and mundivore are scum, and i dont see you being scum with them.

[Tayl0r Swift]

Yeah Tayl0r talking about progression when they went from scum to townreading Duppin for completely ?? reasons.

the difference is if you press me for reasons i explain. when i press you for reasons you deflect by saying i dont give reasons.

[Tayl0r Swift]

It might just be that this game is boring as balls right now.
Did you consider that one.

well ive invited you to come play and make it interesting for yourself but you keep refusing. and i a) kinda disagree and b) dont think thats an excuse for not having a natural read progression

[Tayl0r Swift]

"im bored" is not a defense against "you're scummy and your reads dont make sense"

[Tayl0r Swift]

hm this feels rather weird to me. Tayl0r unless I misunderstood you claim to have a townread on me now but I am unsure as to why that is actually, could you elaborate?

well im not sure about you atm. i still dont really buy a lot of the reasons you gave in your defense and i think your playstyle is lazy and helps scum. but i can sorta see the town mindset, and the way our wagons formed today suggests to me that this is TvT, more likely than not. its more that im fairly convinced that norwee and mundivore are scum, and i dont see you being scum with them.

I think Taylor seems towny here(in this game). Like legit she does seem pretty town. but this here strikes me as backtracking. Ur SR on duppin was really damn strong just like a hot few hours ago. You were basically screaming for his blood in the thread. Now u say ur unsure. Can I know what made this change in opinion?

post 1942 explains why i re-evaluated. in fact you quoted post 1942.

backtracking is not inherently scummy.

[Tayl0r Swift]

backtracking is not inherently scummy.

So i'm not scummy then.

im not accusing you of backtracking. im accusing you of not having a natural read progression.
backtracking is not *inherently* scummy. fence-sitting and frequent changing of opinions is anti-town when you dont explain your reads, because it means you can fill in reasoning ex post and its hard to hold you to your reads. its scummy when theres no evidence of a natural thought progression: townies might change their minds but theres a pattern to their thinking. scum have to make up scumreads as they go so they have incongruent thought progressions

[Tayl0r Swift]

town re-evaluates. changing your mind is not scummy. thats what i did.
i didnt "backtrack" in the sense that i didnt try to pretend i didnt say things i did.
ive stated reasoning for changing my mind. scum!me would probably double down on the duppin read rather than changing my mind. its +town indicative to receive pressure and change your mind, scum are often scared to back down because it looks bad.

so its fine to think that it looks bad that yesterday i was hardpushing duppin and today i have him as a weak townlean ish but not at all at the center of my focus. but its not a good argument to say that it makes me scum

[Tayl0r Swift]

backtracking is not inherently scummy.

So i'm not scummy then.

im not accusing you of backtracking. im accusing you of not having a natural read progression.
backtracking is not *inherently* scummy. fence-sitting and frequent changing of opinions is anti-town when you dont explain your reads, because it means you can fill in reasoning ex post and its hard to hold you to your reads. its scummy when theres no evidence of a natural thought progression: townies might change their minds but theres a pattern to their thinking. scum have to make up scumreads as they go so they have incongruent thought progressions

There's only one thing for certain in this world. And that's the fact that Odd Day Jester, Duppin and Noraa are town.
I would vote for anyone else today.

ok vote mundivore then

[Tayl0r Swift]

Taylor so full of shit it's actually getting a bit entertaining.

AtE and shading without an actual argument.

[Tayl0r Swift]

I think Tayl0r's on L-2 right now. Along with my prior stated reasons, I'm not happy with the reasons for her stance change on duppin and the Norwee/Mundivire theory. Theorising Norwee/Mundivore are both scum because they voted for bad reasons and took opposite sides of the wagons sounds like a fun theory, but there's not much basis behind it otherwise, so it's too tinfoil for me to believe Tayl0r actually thinks that.

Like, she's arguing for duppin town on the basis that Norwee and Mundivore are BOTH scum. What about Mundivore's reasoning for voting duppin is even bad, Tayl0r? You never said why.

If people are sick of this day phase, put Tayl0r on L-1 and we can get a claim.

can we not blatantly rolefish? i know your account is jester, but ((((((

[Tayl0r Swift]

@bugspray part of the reason I have fewer posts than you is that I tend to react to or say multiple things in the same post. I don't like being very spammy. I fewer large posts to many small posts, though I'll still spam a bit if things come to me after reading them.

Something feels very offputting about duppin to me right now. Think shellyc is town this game, although I'm surprised she ignored my vote on her, that seems pretty OOC. I have my reservations but... she's not as scummy as one of the players she pressuring, Redados. Red feels like a weak scum case, though, and I think I have something better.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: duppin

This is my first fairly confident scumread, so far. I don't have a ton of time today, but I'm going to be composing my scumcase where I have time/energy for it. The summary of my case is: duppin is playing

defensively

but not

cautiously.

Usually, when a townie is defensive, it's because they don't want to be mislim'd. If 'avoiding mislims' rather than 'finding good elims' is their mindset for their towngame, then that generally implies an overall cautious playstyle.

But duppin is fairly confident in his reads and his play in general. He's playing like the primary focus he has is finding good elims. I don't get the 'cautious' vibe from him, just 'defensive.' Which pings pretty hard scum to me, because it's a mismatch in demonstrated priorities. Player who prefer a 'finding good elims' mindset tend not to worry about being proactively defensive, because it reduces the chance they'll get NK'd and takes up time that could be used to find a better elim. Meanwhile, duppin feels like he's occupied with remaining in a town-read slot, despite appearing to prioritize elimming people rather than not miselimming people.

I'm about 90% confident on this read. We'll see if actually going through his ISO convinces me further or dissuades me.

to me someone playing defensively but not cautiously is more town than scum. ill wait for mundi's full case but the logic just seems a bit ???
the thing that pings me is that the vote is coming at all rather than the reasoning so far. its norwee that comes across to me as hard scum.

[Tayl0r Swift]

Actually, I'm trying to blatantly kill you

ok but why...

this question is important

[Tayl0r Swift]

I’m willing to bet a lot of credibility on Taylor!scum here.

how much credibility do you even have to be betting with? there certainly wont be much left after this game.

[Tayl0r Swift]

I'm not fond of my reads being easy to follow, unless it's a read that I think will save a townie or sink some scum.

shouldnt that be all your reads? i dont understand tbh.

[Tayl0r Swift]

shelly by your logic why dont we just mass claim at the start of day 1?

[Tayl0r Swift]

im also not totally a noob. i played on another site years ago. and at this point im starting to get acclimated to this site too

[Tayl0r Swift]

Noraa, Duppin. If you two voted Taylor now we'd have 1 scum down.

Norwee are you certain Taylor is scum here? Cuz I'm seriously not feeling a scum!Taylor here

Yes, i’m actually quite convinced of it.
Why do you think they are town?

im quite convinced that you have garbage reads

[Tayl0r Swift]

actually hm it kind of feels to me like tayl0r has accepted she is getting limmed

what gives you that impression?

[Tayl0r Swift]

tayl0r if youre town then why are you not fighting this more? where is the eagerness from when you pushed me?

sometimes i have other things to do.

[Tayl0r Swift]

i am not convinced by the wagon on taylor because i think her approach could be explained by her being an overeager town however her read progression looks really bad at the moment but could be due to her just not explaining it properly plus her lack of defense now makes me actually feel better about the wagon

theres nothing to defend because the case on me is shit. like can someone state a coherent case against me other than "bad vibes"

people literally always scumread me.

i feel like i have defended myself against everything norwee said. norwee is contradicting himself bigtime with the case against me.

[Tayl0r Swift]

and no one has even bothered to comment on anything i said in defense of myself. now people are just talking about wanting blood or wanting the day to end. no one is doing anything to engage me or try to solve. look at the fucking gamestate. this is not how the game looks when youre about to lunch scum.

[Tayl0r Swift]

honestly i would still like to hear from mundivore and plus before hammering

if i do get lunched here powerlunch norwee tomorrow.

[Tayl0r Swift]

Noraa, Duppin. If you two voted Taylor now we'd have 1 scum down.

Norwee are you certain Taylor is scum here? Cuz I'm seriously not feeling a scum!Taylor here

Yes, i’m actually quite convinced of it.
Why do you think they are town?

she's acting just like town her basically is. I mean I see no difference. The amount she posts, the reasoning, the tiny amounts of anger and annoyance. It's all exactly like her in on this day where she was town.

Who did she tunnel in On this Day in the way she was forcefully tunnelling duppin here?

She also had a complex changing read on you in that game, while you've been lazily slotted as null due to playstyle here.

i didnt even tunnel duppin. i pushed duppin for all of one whole day.

[Tayl0r Swift]

Where am i contradicting myself, i’ve literally stated why i believe you are scum.

you have meta reasons that exonerate me. yet you still scumread me

[Tayl0r Swift]

this post will be a bit of a mess, since the following quotes are norwee engaging/progressing on me, and sometimes norwee refers to me as taylor and sometimes as tayl0r which made the posts come in the wrong order when i searched. i hope i fixed the order.

Spoiler:

I was okay with Tayl0r's predecessor but not sure what to think of the slot at the moment. I know Jester already asked you to explain why you find his read on Saudade opportunistic but I would also really like to hear your read on Saudade since you did throw slight shade towards him earlier saying him being silent is a scum tell, I am well aware you were being sarcstic about your vast experience with him but still you never mentioned him after that.

Theory.
Tayl0r scumread Saudade before receiving her role pm. But then when she did receive it she realized Saudade was her scum teammate so she stopped focusing on him.

this one is just an odd tin-foil hat theory that isnt scummy necessarily, and norwee does immediately realize its silly and drop it, but still interesting

-snip-
what was the motivation for doing this jester? it seems like you were searching for an excuse to scumread someone rather than trying to sort someone.

redados and jester are topscum for me at this point.

VOTE: jester
but id also be happy to vote redados

Really not a fan of this post.
Ironically it feels like you're trying to find an excuse yourself to scumread Jester here. And your read seems too strong based on that flimsy evidence.

so im scummy

From my experience, when Tayl0r is obvscum they're obvscum. Dunno how they play as town yet.

if im scum it should be obvious

Redados town, Noraa probably tunneling town.
If this is correct then i like Taylor a bit more as well. I'm getting a tiny bit of a different vibe from them than Noir (Which i can start openly quoting now since the game ended). They were scum in that game so my gut is that they must be town in this game.

ok now im town because i should be obvscum and im not

reddish: reddados, grendel (taylor was better), mini,

This solve might be correct, but if it is, it's boring.

ok now im scum again

Honestly, shelly is efforting so much that she'll hopefully just spew herself as town/scum further down the line. It really does feel like this is her scummeta based on what I've seen, mostly from stuff she did early on, buuuut I'll shelve this for a bit.

VOTE: Tayl0r

Idk what i'm doing so i guess i'll sheep you. Tayl0r has been firm null for me anyway so not a bad place for me to place my vote.
VOTE: Tayl0r Swift

now im a firm null and apparently we are voting for firm nulls now

Tayl0r launch, people?

If it get's us out of this dreadful day then i'm all in.

any lunch as long as its lunchtime

im all in for it
been scumrading the slot to hell and back

PLUS YOU’RE JACKSON, im not a fan of the lamist

Tayl0r launch, people?

If it get's us out of this dreadful day then i'm all in.

Vote her then, we can ring her up to L-1 and get a claim today if we're efficient about it.

VOTE: Tayl0r Swift
Ok.

Now to start scumreading you five minutes later, oh wait that's Plusjoyed.

blatantly voting for the express purpose of getting a roleclaim.

norwee is pushing everyone to lunch me without even scumreading me!

I don't townread you. And Jester made good points on you.

now im a "non-townread" and its not norwee's fault if i flip town, because its jester's case! (btw see above how jester's reason for voting me is so that we can get a claim)

And i don’t like Taylors push on Duppin at all. So that’s one of the reasons i’m ok voting there.

ok let me give one reason for voting sorta without analyzing anything, and then say that i have more reasons.

this is not a genuine progression. at all.

tl;dr is that norwee's reads on me change constantly, but there is nothing in the iso that explains why. i go from scum to town to null to null but voting and now to scum? well norwee doesnt townread me, but norwee doesnt seem to scumread me either. norwee explicitly just wants a lunch and especially a claim from me. norwee said that based on meta i must be town yet here i am and norwee is also saying im probably scum (based on the vote, presumably norwee thinks im more likely scum than town)

before you say i dont defend myself could someone address this? like... i made this post a while ago. no one has really disagreed with any of it, yet people are saying that im not defending myself.

open your eyes and read people.

[Tayl0r Swift]

All you’re doing is fearmongering.
"I always get scumread"
Waa waa waa.

all youre doing is AtE. you havent addressed anything ive said, youre just out for blood. you arent being genuine in engaging with me or trying to sort me. youre arguing in bad faith.

[Tayl0r Swift]

At the moment I believe that bugspray, Jester, Norwee and UNOwen are all town. Actually I am kind of feeling the most confident about my UNOwen read at the moment simply because I feel his thoughtprocess is so damn town. If he is scum I think he is playing a really good game so far

why is norwee town?

[Tayl0r Swift]

if you do decide to hammer let me speak first

[Tayl0r Swift]

im very close to really going off on norwee here.

im very frustrated with the rest of you too.

im the town rolestopper.

[Tayl0r Swift]

Meanwhile you went from acting weird and creepy as hell about Duppin slot before deciding to just townread him for literally no reason and conclude that i’m scum from it, probably because your Duppin shade wasn’t working and you saw Plusjoyed tunnel me and decided to make me your new target.

go fuck yourself

[Tayl0r Swift]

a) i didnt claim doctor.
b) if the game has a lot of killing power (like a town vig or SK) then it makes sense for both alignments to have healing power

[Tayl0r Swift]

well its pretty fucking easy to confirm. ill be dead tomorrow.

[Tayl0r Swift]

theres no point in lunching me today.

[Tayl0r Swift]

im not ascetic

[Tayl0r Swift]

the good news for me is that norwee's counterclaim makes norwee a bigger target for the night kill than myself

[Tayl0r Swift]

Taylor's off the block since we won't be limming her after that claim. We need to get a counter wagon started asap. So role blocker is basically like ... jailkeeper is what the wiki basically says. It's pretty important and she's right that she'll prolly die tonight if that claim's real. Anyways I want a bugs or redados counter wagon please

to be clear im not a roleblocker. a roleblocker prevents the target from performing their action.
im a rolestopper. a rolestopper protects the target from all incoming actions. so im like a doctor that also makes you untargetable (ascetic).

[Tayl0r Swift]

the good news for me is that norwee's counterclaim makes norwee a bigger target for the night kill than myself

....isnt jailkeeper the most powerful role tho?

neither of us is a jailkeeper

[Tayl0r Swift]

i still think norwee is more than likely scum here. nevertheless,
VOTE: mundivore

[Tayl0r Swift]

tayl0r i just read your claim and while i am not entirely sure i believe it, it is definitely enough for me to not want to lim you. would you still like me to respond to your posts?

yes. and doubly so for norwee

[Tayl0r Swift]

the good news for me is that norwee's counterclaim makes norwee a bigger target for the night kill than myself

Not sure i get your logic here.

your role is more of a threat than mine

[Tayl0r Swift]

shelly you really really really need to stop tunneling me every game