Mini Normal 2170: Stuff I’m Listening To [Game Over]

[Blitzo]

Hello everyone, glad to be playing with all of you.
I will withhold my vote for now.

[Blitzo]

Hello everyone, glad to be playing with all of you.
I will withhold my vote for now.

Why?

I didn't feel strongly enough about anything to warrant voting yet.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: murdercat

found scum y'all.

How so?

Hello everyone, glad to be playing with all of you.
I will withhold my vote for now.

Why?

Seriously. Why would anyone be glad to be playing mafia?

VOTE: Blitzo

This seems like a bit of a stretch - what makes you think I don't enjoy the game and what bearing does that have on my alignment?

[Blitzo]

Hello everyone, glad to be playing with all of you.
I will withhold my vote for now.

Why?

I didn't feel strongly enough about anything to warrant voting yet.

How does a game start if no one votes when theres no information?

I don't disagree, but I also don't agree that things weren't happening around me that I could look at. I simply didn't feel like my vote was necessary or useful at that point in time.

Also I was going to treat you like a noob and give you the benefit of the doubt that you don't know how RVS works but given that your account was created in 2014 and you have like zero posts on it it seems pretty clear you're an alt.

You are correct that I am not new, and I have made no effort to hide that fact.

VOTE: blitzo

real vote 34 is weird

Care to explain?

[Blitzo]

VOTE: blitzo

real vote 34 is weird

I'm trying to parse 34 here too and I agree its weird though I'm not really sure what to make of it.

The tone of the post is like someone who hasn't played mafia before and doesn't know how RVS works but the fact that the account is from 2014 and this game is the first time its posted literally ever on the site it makes me think its someone trying to play up that tone on an alt.

I don't know if that's alignment indicative at all since presumably that would be a decision made by the player before the game started, but I definitely agree with you its weird.

I feel like the tone/timing thing you're bringing up seems somewhat reachy, considering the time of my account being made is readily available for anyone to look at.
I fail to see how I have indicated that I am new in any way, nor do I see how this has any relevance to the game at large or my alignment. What exactly have you gleaned from this conversation?

Blitzo, what's your mafia experience?

I've been playing on and off for several years.

You are correct that I am not new, and I have made no effort to hide that fact.

it's not whether or not you have made an effort to hide that fact that bugs me, its that you seem to not know how RVS works in the sense that you're saying things like "I don't have enough information to vote." It's a type of comment that I've really only seen made by extremely new players of the game.

You say you are not new, but you are acting in ways that make it seem like you're trying to pretend you're new, or genuinely don't know how the first day of mafia starts generally speaking.

Its incongruous, so I'm picking at it.

How am I acting new, exactly? All I stated was that I'm withholding my vote.

How so?

This looks like fake question to me because the implication was obvious

Sorry, that's not going to work.
VOTE: murdercat
Implications mean nothing. Explain.

[Blitzo]

I'm leaning town on TSQ as of right now - there are several points in the thread where he posted something exactly along the lines of what I was thinking and his lines of questioning make total sense to me.
I'd be perfectly happy following him onto Kasu as of right now as well.

I'm having a hard time taking my wagon seriously simply because the reasoning is either poorly thought out or nonexistent.
If someone could actually break down how I'm acting new or why that matters, that may help things slightly - I don't really see where that's coming from but maybe people are picking up on something I'm not? I just don't get it.

Pedit - posting a list with nothing in it is wholly unimpressive. Do better.

[Blitzo]

Sorry, that's not going to work.
VOTE: murdercat
Implications mean nothing. Explain.

I did explain, the question looked fake to me. It looks fake to me because the vote had an obvious reason, I had done one thing so far, take my vote off tsq. Maybe I did it because I'm scum and didn't want to be on the wagon.

"Implications mean nothing. Explain."

This line of questioning doesn't follow at all from what you originally asked about. You wanted to know why I thought your post looked weird and I explained it in full. This pressure feels super fake.

Well.
Your original scumread is based off of the fact that I asked panzer about his original vote.
You think that that vote is not worthy of questioning or...Something? I'm still not sure what your original thought is on it or why it isn't worth questioning him on, but it seems like your scumread is based on me not actually wanting to talk to panzer.

I feel like your entire line of thinking is based on something rather vacuous, and I'm still having a really hard time pinning down what you're doing - it's like you're trying to poke holes in something rather than trying to figure things out and it seems suspicious.
Even after looking at your list I still don't really understand where you're coming from, which is not a good sign. How are people like bulge, panzer, and pooky town already?
The little I've gleaned off of your Gamma read is also mediocre - you've pointed out that he might have backtracked, which is a thing, but I still don't see why that matters or how that makes him scummy either.

All of your reads seem superficial and I'm content voting you.

I'm having a hard time taking my wagon seriously simply because the reasoning is either poorly thought out or nonexistent.
If someone could actually break down how I'm acting new or why that matters, that may help things slightly - I don't really see where that's coming from but maybe people are picking up on something I'm not? I just don't get it.

This is such a scummy thing to say, "oh you don't have any real evidence, you can't prove I'm scum!!1!"

Yeah, whatever.

Pedit - making sure I've double checked everything in the thread and didn't miss anything. I'm still here.

[Blitzo]

I fail to see why you're saying things are obvious "in context." A lot of those townleans have said

maybe

two or three words and I fail to see how that justifies feeling any sort of way about them.
It also seems like gut reads are, by their nature, weak and baseless. What makes you think that someone can't drop a gut read under pressure as town?

[Blitzo]

I fail to see why you're saying things are obvious "in context."

I feel like you are being dense on purpose here? Here are my posts prior to the panzer vote on me

Spoiler: iso

Hi everyone I'm town what about you

VOTE: tsq

Sorry I meant

yeet: tsq

Not if yeet is an option I can't

VOTE: panzer

Hey that's my friend

If you can't see why it's obvious that my tsq unvote as a "wagon" was forming was the cause of votes on me I don't know what to tell you.

A lot of those townleans have said maybe two or three words and I fail to see how that justifies feeling any sort of way about them.

I didn't say you have to believe them but I literally gave my explanation.

It also seems like gut reads are, by their nature, weak and baseless. What makes you think that someone can't drop a gut read under pressure as town?

You can drop a read if you have an actual reason but walking it back just because people start to question you makes it look fake imo. If I said "yeah pooky actually isn't that towny you're right" would you just accept that?

In regards to point one, it seems like your actions are still not as clear as you're making them. I actually didn't see the point until you posted it, and even now it still seems slightly silly. I can chock it up to RVS being pretty light in terms of material as a whole but I feel like you're still making things out to be way more obvious than they actually are.
In regards to point two, your reasoning is still weak.
In regards to point three, maybe. It would depend on the strength of the read and, in some cases, what they do with that information afterwards. It's not like the dude came up with an ironclad case or anything, in yet I feel like you're treating it as that was what happened.

Murdercat gives me gut feelings of scum from the way he dismissed the growing wagon on him but I'll admit that's weak, which is I'm not voting him. I'd like a proper wagon on him sometime, but like I said, I'd rather have a wagon somebody who will be troublesome to read so we can figure them out early.

you cite a weak gutread here as a reason for not voting murdercat, but is that not what made you want to push blitzo?

part of the reason

is there any other specific reason you are not voting murdercat?

I didn't notice this.
Outworld may have jumped higher on my scumreads list.

[Blitzo]

The point is Blitzo I townread people who are thinking like me and I scumread those who aren't (on day 1 at least).

Maybe, I am guilty of this myself.

In regards to point two, your reasoning is still weak.

I never made any claims about the strength of my reads or my reasoning though, which is why things like this feel fake

I feel like this just invalidates the point of doing anything, ever. My reads are weak, so if people call them weak, that makes them scum.

????

@Bulge - what do you think of murdercat right now? I saw that you unvoted him but would like some clarification on why, please.

[Blitzo]

@Bulge - what do you think of murdercat right now? I saw that you unvoted him but would like some clarification on why, please.

answers making sense so far, i've seen nothing from him since the post I originally voted for that would make me vote again.

Potentially.
Do you have any better alternatives?

[Blitzo]

I feel like this just invalidates the point of doing anything, ever. My reads are weak, so if people call them weak, that makes them scum.

Point is you are acting like you caught me in some sort of lie to push me when that's not the case

Of course you can't lie if you don't say anything at all.
This is also centered around the fact that scum can and will post reads lists with little/nothing in them.
It makes the entire concept a cop out excuse to do next to nothing.

Pedit - I can do that as well tbh.
@murdercat - what do you think out outworld right now?

[Blitzo]

I kinda don't really care about what TSQ is saying about me being new anymore.
Anyhoezels.

TSQ who is scum?

[Blitzo]

A fair point, I can wait for others to get involved.

[Blitzo]

You know what, pressing pooky can wait. I'm pretty into yeeting Kasu I think.

VOTE: kasumeat

I'm in agreement with this - I think TSQ's analysis of kasu's posting is pretty spot on and would be happy voting there as well.

I didn't like this vote because it felt like you were trying to ramp up a wagon while still pretending to be a RVS vote.

There was discussion happening around this statement so you were either ignoring that discussion or werent interested in having it. You had already made your joke opening vote for trying to claim that you werent voting for real is a stretch to me, especially since there was already information out there. It just rings kind of fishy to me. The whole interaction reads kind of fishy to me.

Post 40 and 103 is more indication that its not a random vote, but they're harping lines of questioning that I was already having without adding anything additional of substance for something that literally the player would have had to decide to do pre-game, which I pointed out at the time.

Post 154 is basically just you reiterating that what you are suspecting blitzo for is not really alignment indicative.

Then after that you start harping on not active people, which brings us to your post 176 which basically says "I'm going to ignore all the content that has happened so far in the game I want to yeet the guy who has done the weird thing that is NAI or some lurker."

It doesn't add up to me. It just doesn't look like you're earnestly trying to find scum.

My initial vote on Blitzo was very clearly a joke. I didn't like Blitzo's reaction to it nor did pretty much anyone else in the game. 40 is me seeing if Blitzo has some sort of reasonable explanation for it, which he didn't give, so 103 is me making it clear that what was a joke vote is now a real one. As for not participating in the discussion at the time, I work in restaurants which means I'm not on a computer and I only have a minute here or there to phonepost when I'm working in the afternoons/evenings EST.

In 154 I'm saying that I'm torn between whether Blitzo's weirdness is NAI or scummy. So with one possibility making me null on him and the other making me SR him, in what fucking universe does that mean I should still be null on him? Because that's exactly what you're saying.

"You were trying to ramp up a wagon" is bullshit. Ramp up the wagon with literally nobody on it? There is no way that you honestly believe that I'm scum trying to lynch a townie with my case being built upon "Blitzo likes playing mafia" as the basis for the wagon. You're taking what was very clearly an RVS vote and saying "your case here is terrible" and using that as justification for SRing me? There is no fucking way that an experienced townie makes a read like yours on me.

VOTE: Shea

/yawn

Zero mercy lmao. T^T I mean if no one gives me a summary, I'll prolly end up doing that but I don't wannaaaaaaaaaa ;(

This is a pretty slow game so I don't know what your problem is.

[Blitzo]

@duppin - why do you think outworlder is town?
@murdercat - from where I'm sitting, your statement on noraa is definitely the pot calling the kettle black.

[Blitzo]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: kasu

I'm more comfortable with this wagon at this point, and I'm cool with voting with bulge right now.

[Blitzo]

Pooky are you feeling TSQ as scum at this stage or why is your vote there?

[Blitzo]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: kasu

I'm more comfortable with this wagon at this point, and I'm cool with voting with bulge right now.

This is a very strange post

what do you mean by comfortable with the wagon? Do you think Kasu is scum here? And what's your read on Bulge?

I think it would be obvious that I think kasu is scum here, and that I think bulge is town.

at the time of your vote-swap the wagons are:

Murdercat 4
Kasu 3

and you are changing the leading wagon by switching from MC to Kasu - can you explain your thought process behind this in terms of MC/Kasu? Also why would you say you are cool voting Bulge if he voted Kasu 3 posts before you and you just bumped Kasu up to the leading wagon with your vote? I'm not really understanding your progression here.

I feel more confident voting kasu than I do murdercat at this stage.
I did not say I was cool voting bulge.

I feel like you haven't really read anything that I've been posting, because all of the information you're asking about is already in the thread. I have thought Kasu was suspicious for a while now but I'd be comfortable elaborating if that's what you're actually asking for.
I also don't feel like your TSQ vote is warranted at this stage and I don't feel like you have an excuse for not having someone to vote. If you think he's scum then fine, tell me why, or find someone else to vote.
What are your reads?

[Blitzo]

I've already said my TSQ vote is RVS and not serious.

I'd love for you to elaborate on your Kasu vote.

I understand that you said that.
I also do not care that you said that.
Who is scum?

As for my read on kasu, I have agreed with TSQ's analysis and am happy voting the slot for the time being. Some of his actions under pressure (re: OMGUS'ing TSQ into oblivion) have been suspect as well.
This information is already available in my ISO.

[Blitzo]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: kasu

I'm more comfortable with this wagon at this point, and I'm cool with voting with bulge right now.

This is a very strange post

what do you mean by comfortable with the wagon? Do you think Kasu is scum here? And what's your read on Bulge?

I was just about to say this when I got to this point of my reread.

Blitzos jump on the Kasu wagon is fricken awful.

His push is bad but he believes it's good

I think I agree with this actually.

:/

VOTE: unvote

Why? To either of these things, actually.

[Blitzo]

I fail to see how pushing a bad read strongly makes someone town.
I'm going to need more than that I think.

[Blitzo]

@TSQ - I am amazed that you are fixated on something this inane and pointless at this juncture.
Elaborate on why kasu is not scum, please.

[Blitzo]

Fixated is a strange word to use which implies that I'm somehow ignoring other things in order to talk about.

Which as an attempted critique of my play would be laughable.

Naw homie, this whole spiel you're weaving about me being new or not knowing what I'm doing is tiresome - there are plenty of other things that you can talk about wrt to me that have nothing to do with whatever it is you're talking about, in yet here you are, posting about something that means nothing.
No more dodging the question.
Why is kasu not scum for his bad push?

Pedit - alright, if kasu is not scum, who is? What would you expect from town!kasu to solidify your read, since it seems that that is not yet the case?

[Blitzo]

Panzer's catch up leaves much to be desired as well.
@Panzer - elaborate more on your reads, please.

[Blitzo]

Fixated is a strange word to use which implies that I'm somehow ignoring other things in order to talk about.

Which as an attempted critique of my play would be laughable.

Naw homie, this whole spiel you're weaving about me being new or not knowing what I'm doing is tiresome - there are plenty of other things that you can talk about wrt to me that have nothing to do with whatever it is you're talking about, in yet here you are, posting about something that means nothing.
No more dodging the question.
Why is kasu not scum for his bad push?

Pedit - alright, if kasu is not scum, who is? What would you expect from town!kasu to solidify your read, since it seems that that is not yet the case?

are you serious right now?

I fail to see what part of this post isn't serious.
If there's some kind of issue that you have with what I've said, I would like to know what that is.

[Blitzo]

Pooky, what are your other reads?
I feel like I've asked like ten times already and I don't think it should be this difficult to get them.

[Blitzo]

are you asking me for a full read-list?

I'm asking you to do something other than fuddle about.
We're almost 20 pages in and you still have no real vote.
The more you can produce the better, I feel.

[Blitzo]

Why don't you want to convince me that Kasu is bad ? You do want to elim him today right?

I'm not 100% convinced he's scum. I acknowledge the fact that he could be and I think it's more likely than not based on my understanding, but I'm already in the process of talking to several other people about his opinion.
Why would you want to be convinced to vote someone you think is likely town?
And why is it so hard to get you to develop an opinion on anything? This feels like pulling teeth and it really shouldn't feel like that.

Like its the tone of the post that confuses me more than anything "the NO MORE DODGING THE QUESTION!" implies that somehow you've been asking me a question repeatedly that I've been deliberately avoiding. It seems like its painting me as being completely unwilling to engage on your questions for a long time and I just don't think thats remotely accurate. I think I've been perhaps the most responsive and active player in this game in terms of willingness to share my opinions and answer questions.

To the point that literally I had answered your question before you finished admonishing me for not answering it, and you still chose to leave the admonishment in your post feels a lot like well poisoning to me.

Well.
You always seem to have a problem with my posting over things I feel are irrelevant.
If you have a problem with me, engage me - I'm here and I'm town, and I'm not doing this whole thing where you undermine me for long periods of time.
As for my other question - if kasu is not scum, what would you expect from him moving forward?

I already claimed scum bro..

Also it isn't actively unhelpful. 3 scum in those 6. Probably could narrow it down more, but that'd require effort.

I don't want you to narrow it down more I want your reasoning so I can evaluate them and also you.

I agree.
I'd actually be happier with you narrowing it down as well since that's the entire point of the game, but hey it's not like you signed up for it or anything panzer.
Scumreading almost half the game and saying "that's fine" is lazy at best and scummy at worst, and I'm leaning towards the latter at this point.

PEDIT -

I'm poor at explaining. But I'm right so like...do whatever I guess.

No. Play the game.

[Blitzo]

Ok but why did you yell at me to stop dodging a question when I have dodged zero questions and then seeing I had answered the question you were in the middle of yelling at me for dodging, leave the part in about dodging the question?

Because it always seems like you get fixated on things that don't matter and I was getting annoyed.
Kind of like you're doing right now.

Back to things that actually matter - talk to me about kasu, please.

[Blitzo]

Panzer is honestly being so scummy I can't imagine them as scum. Scum would have to be really daring to play like this. I could see a scum!panzer but I think a town!panzer is more likely as it seems panzer has a jestery playstyle that just likes to deal in fluff. I might meta dive them a lil if I feel like it but we'll see

I feel like this logic doesn't really hold much water but I can see where it's coming from.

Blitz has avoided solving me even tho my presence here has gotten bigger as I start actually keeping up with the thread. Blitz no avoiding. Solve me. A vague read is better than no read

I don't think avoided is the term but I can ISO dive you now if you want.

[Blitzo]

Well I dove.
Lots of one liners but the readslist is sort of okay I guess. Maybe a townlean?
I can think of a number of people I would lynch and you wouldn't be one of them, is what I'm saying.

Pedit - well what are you expecting? People are getting up in arms over what I feel is next to nothing and it's getting really annoying.

[Blitzo]

Recently I came across something similar to this where I got extremely frustrated as town and I think the only way out of that anger and frustration is to ignore and let ur pure towny energy shine thru. Unless ur scum ofc. Then I'd prefer u just stay scummy lmao since that makes everyone's lives easier

You have quite an optimistic view of mafia that I unfortunately don't share.

[Blitzo]

VOTE: Blitzo

imo its kind of shady for him to ask me for my opinion multiple times but when I say he's my top SR just ignore me and post 4 times without responding to it. shade thrown.

Honestly? I was expecting you to post something else or to come up with more.
Two reads in a game of 13 people, one of which appearing incredibly unfounded, is unimpressive. TSQ's assessment of your read on me is correct, in addition to that read being backed with little to begin with (RE: I've been asking about kasu repeatedly in yet that has gone completely unnoticed by you somehow.)

In fact I'm still expecting something else because I really don't think you're done posting reads or opinions. You want me to engage you? Sure. I am also, however, expecting you to post more about the remaining 11 players in the game.

[Blitzo]

Not mafia has to be the least fun person to play with on the entire site. :/

We can policy lynch him, which I am 100% in favor of.

I'm a little bit behind and am at work so it may take me a bit to catch up.

[Blitzo]

No we shouldn't policy lim semi lurkers. They'll get prodded and replaced if they are too lurky and all will be fine

Maybe.
Though from what has been gathered, this may not be the case and we may not get much more out of him.
I say we just lynch him if he continues to be useless tbh.

I'm

always

in favor of lynching people who do nothing over people that do.

Pedit - is someone being rude/mean somewhere? This seems like one of the most civil games I've ever played, honestly.

[Blitzo]

Actually I just ISO'd pooky because I remembered that he asked me a question before.

He's in his normal range. It's easier to see what he is when you hammer test him.

Can you go a little bit more in-depth about his range? And what is the frequency you're talking about in #673?

Honestly? I was expecting you to post something else or to come up with more.
Two reads in a game of 13 people, one of which appearing incredibly unfounded, is unimpressive. TSQ's assessment of your read on me is correct, in addition to that read being backed with little to begin with (RE: I've been asking about kasu repeatedly in yet that has gone completely unnoticed by you somehow.)

I just want to have a conversation with you that's all. Pick your brain see where you are at.

What's the most damning thing Kasu's done so far that makes you want to eject him ?

I agreed with TSQ's reasoning on him beforehand and have been waiting to see what exactly we're expecting from town!kasu moving forward.
I think someone else (can't remember who, probably TSQ but may have to double check) said that giving an emotional player a pass based on being emotional is not good reasoning and I also agreed with that.
I can be swayed into not voting him, but I would need more than "more likely from town" reasoning to do so.

I saw at one point that you were teaming up with town!kasu - is this still based on that earlier reasoning that he was angry at one point or did something else happen to solidify that read?

Pedit - because lynching lurkers never a bad move. Worst case scenario (in the one you're bringing up) is they claim and then you don't have to waste any more energy on them or thinking about them.
People say it's bad because they might be town, but I've always found that to be mediocre reasoning because letting nonplayers infect your town based on the fact that they won't play is a worse scenario.

I also find your stance on lurkers to be somewhat odd. Is there any particular reason you would avoid lynching NM over someone else? It doesn't even seem like you're voting right now iirc.

[Blitzo]

ur telling me that activity determines whether or not they are scum?

Sometimes it does.
Maybe it's too simple or people think that only newbies vote based on activity. It is as much a metric as anything else.

Lurkers almost always lurk regardless of alignment and role is what my experience tells me. Lurking, while it may be very annoying, is not a scum tell so why should we be limming off of it?

I've already answered both of these questions, though I will add this:
If a majority of people look town, are scumhunting, and are trying to solve the game, while there's another dude is sitting in the corner doing nothing, why would we spare the nothing dude?

then how come my scum win rate is 0%?
its bc town didn't decide to lim based off of lurkiness

I don't actually understand what you're trying to say here.

I will also point out that this defense of NM is particularly odd, especially for a player that does nothing. What do you think NM is right now?

[Blitzo]

Can you go a little bit more in-depth about his range? And what is the frequency you're talking about in #673?

Range refers to range of behavior.

Frequency refers to touching the vibration of someone's soul and trying to read their alignment that way.

I'm beginning to think the reason your answers to everything are so mediocre is because you're scum.
You never seem to elaborate on anything and your answers are always so generic and nondescript.
You still only have two reads.
The few questions I ask you are frequently ignored.
And whatever this pressure is that you're trying to lay on me is tepid at best because you never seem to do anything with the information given and everything you say after the fact is so disjointed.

What is going on here, like really?

[Blitzo]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: pooky

I was awaiting some type of response from pooky after my last post.
I now understand that there likely won't be one.

This is a good vote.

[Blitzo]

I agree with Blitzo that Pooky is basically still active lurking. They've still got their vote on Blitzo with no real reason given as to why they're still on there and they're still not doing any actual scum/town-hunting of any kind. The only real thing they've provided of substance is occasional metagame stuff.

I think the best wagon for town right now is Pooky.

VOTE: Pooky

Eh I still think Pooky is town. I think having done even more consideration I've figured out the best way to put how I perceive Pooky's playstyle as town and scum. He has two things that factor into this, a tendency to troll regardless of alignment, and the agenda that motivates him when he is scum. As town that trolliness isn't filtered through anything so it feels aimless, but as scum it gets pushed through an agenda so it looks like he's trying to contribute.

I feel like this is avoiding the case rather than providing insight into why pooky is town.
If there's actual substance here I would need much more than this unfortunately.

I'm beginning to think the reason your answers to everything are so mediocre is because you're scum.
You never seem to elaborate on anything and your answers are always so generic and nondescript.
You still only have two reads.
The few questions I ask you are frequently ignored.
And whatever this pressure is that you're trying to lay on me is tepid at best because you never seem to do anything with the information given and everything you say after the fact is so disjointed.

What is going on here, like really?

Lemme do my best blitzo impression btw:

"You never seem to take your wife out to dinner or an event,
You keep your facebook profile as single,
Every time people ask you whether you are married you don't respond.
Every time you say "I love you to your wife" is when nobody is around.
I've seen your wife crying by the window many times when I walk by your house"

What's really going on here? Are you cheating on your wife? Are you beating her?"

Like how am I supposed to even respond to this nonsense lol

Wtf are you talking about?

[Blitzo]

you just said you don't respect me or blitz as players

i don't see the problem with this statement tbh

This seems needlessly antagonistic.
What's your deal? You scum?

[Blitzo]

I might be even more down to vote panzer over pooky.
Panzer was needlessly antagonistic and thinks the pooky wagon is bad, in yet makes absolutely no effort to rectify the issue he sees.

Pooky do you have other reads or did I overlook them in the last few pages?

[Blitzo]

@noraa - gamma is not getting lynched today figure something else out.

[Blitzo]

Noraa. Find another vote. Gamma isn't happening today.

[Blitzo]

I just ISO'd pooky again because I found some downtime to search:

for example when I got voted/wagoned here's what I'm reading:

Outworld 1st Vote ( Like town - because scum don't start wagons usually on their own, when pushed got super annoyed, when repeatedly pushed- moved into angry exasperation = heavy ++town)
Blitzo 2nd Vote (Likely scum - because he's been dancing around me literally the entire game, pinging me with random potshots about how he doesn't like me, never voted me, then as soon as I get voted by someone he jumps on like 5 minutes late - likely oppurtunistic scum)
MC 3rd Vote (Likely scum - refused direct engagement - lying about vote intent, claims he's doing this for "pressure" then spends multiple thread posts on hypoing about Pooky partners etc as if Pooky=scum is his baseline assumption)
Kasu 4th vote (Randomly antagonistic, smartass comments, ghosted - null read)

Okay. It's a start.
What else do you have?

[Blitzo]

@Noraa - I figured you already had some kind of alternative vote ready. I feel like that might need to be your main focus outside of defending yourself regardless.
My potential lynchees are pooky and panzer, and I could do NM for funsies. I'm relatively on the same page with NM about that group, but I also think that there's almost 0 chance that that scumlist is 100% accurate.

Unfortunately I see little reason to believe scum is outside of those three at this point. I could potentially see swapping pooky out with someone but I don't know who that would be yet.

I could easily switch to panzer off of this vote.
I am still awaiting a response from pooky as per my earlier post and would like to hear his response.

[Blitzo]

I meant to say I agree with MC, not NM. Apologies.

[Blitzo]

Still feel like the Panzer vote that is on me from page 1 and hasn't changed should be pinging more people

This still applies by the way

I'm not sure how Panzer's apathy is alignment indicative - do you have data that shows he is more apathetic in his scum-games ?

What's more telling btw is how you and blitzo seem to be wavering so quickly in the face of resistance and willing to look for a softer target.

Amazing mental spin on that narrative.

What are your other reads? Respond to #1011 please.

[Blitzo]

Hi NM we are voting panzer because he is not an active contributor

How dare he

VOTE: Panzer

Oye.

[Blitzo]

Don't want to vote panzer, the counter wagons that keep popping up to Noraa sure are interesting though.

Why?

[Blitzo]

Well.
You're correct about NM at the least.

Maybe I should spend more time looking back into noraa? Is there a specific post for the case on her?

[Blitzo]

Yeah idk.

[Blitzo]

Yeah idk.

Where are you at right now Blitzo?

Physically or mentally?

[Blitzo]

Yeah idk.

Where are you at right now Blitzo?

Physically or mentally?

I guess both now

Physically I'm here.
Mentally I'm running out of ideas.

[Blitzo]

I don't think I'm being an asshole or making disparaging comments. I think she has a valid playstyle, it's just one that I feel is anti-town.

Also very rude that you say I'm not playing, shea. Ur bully

I mean, you are.
Soooooo.

As for the noraa wagon - I feel like some of these last few posts on page 47 have been pretty enlightening in terms of the case on noraa.
I also agree with them and was calling her out for some of these things earlier.

How many votes does she have right now?

[Blitzo]

I don't think I'm being an asshole or making disparaging comments. I think she has a valid playstyle, it's just one that I feel is anti-town.

Also very rude that you say I'm not playing, shea. Ur bully

I mean, you are.
Soooooo.

As for the noraa wagon - I feel like some of these last few posts on page 47 have been pretty enlightening in terms of the case on noraa.
I also agree with them and was calling her out for some of these things earlier.

How many votes does she have right now?

slick way to slide onto the wagon

[Blitzo]

I don't think I'm being an asshole or making disparaging comments. I think she has a valid playstyle, it's just one that I feel is anti-town.

Also very rude that you say I'm not playing, shea. Ur bully

I mean, you are.
Soooooo.

As for the noraa wagon - I feel like some of these last few posts on page 47 have been pretty enlightening in terms of the case on noraa.
I also agree with them and was calling her out for some of these things earlier.

How many votes does she have right now?

A coward on an anonymous alt shouldn't be saying shit about decorum

Not sure why you felt the need to protect your ego here but however you do, I guess.

Such disrespect for my scum game in this thread I'm embarrassed, I guess everyone forgot while I was gone.

I'm still not convinced it's Noraa and I do feel like there is a chance that Bulge is setting up a move onto me.

Yeah I was relatively unimpressed by that return as well.

Also as an fyi, I am around but I'm running errands so I'll be peeking into the thread every so often until later tonight.
I can vote noraa, I would also really like pooky to make an appearance before deadline. I don't think I'd be too willing to vote MC right now though.

[Blitzo]

Blitz just shades me but never actually interacts with me. that's just weird :/

if ur gonna SR me, at least quote some of my posts and point out why I'm scum. You just reply to everyone else and throw shade at me while doing vague little reads.

I thought I talked about this a few pages ago.
Honestly I'm pretty at a loss for who to lynch here - I just don't think it should be MC.
Every time I wagon someone they look town.

[Blitzo]

Intent to hammer doesn't even have to be a thing imo.

There should always be intent to hammer

Can you do something towny?
Or anything really.

[Blitzo]

TBH there are like five million posts between noraa/tsq/pooky/MC.
I kind of feel like if we get a town flip here we should start looking into the less actives.

There are so many people just totally content with such a contested lynch that that might be really telling.

Pedit - what do you mean?

[Blitzo]

VOTE: BLirzp

Okay - why?

VOTE: BLirzp

This leans town for me btw

Why?

[Blitzo]

I am pretty sure, yes.

They joined in 2014 and didn't post anywhere until literally this game.

Yes, I am an alt.

My working theory right now is that N_M knows who blitzo is an alt of, and that is who they are referring to as Rossi. My first guess was Carne Rosso but that doesn't make a lot of sense although rosso was on the site pretty recently.

That is incorrect.

[Blitzo]

Incorrect as in I am not that person.
Anyways.

[Blitzo]

Why would NM be townreading me if I'm the person that he tried (and failed miserably) to vote?

[Blitzo]

Do you have any better guesses as to what rossi means? He's said it twice so its not a mistake. It's either you or its just complete nonsense. 50-50 shot really.

lol I love how we're talking about NM like he's too useless to form a coherent thought.
I'm not rossi, so that read is virtually worthless until NM actually graces us with an explanation which I doubt we're ever going to get.

[Blitzo]

I really want to yeet someone that isn't doing anything.

[Blitzo]

I cave
UNVOTE: Murder

idc how bad this makes me look but that AtE just hit different even if I feel it's scum motivated. Hopefully I'll be less of a big softie tmrw and vote where necessary but today, I'm feeling like being a big softie so that's that.

Ok but please vote me again at deadline if necessary

You better hope I never roll scum against you because you know I'll do the exact same thing

what the fuck is all of this

VOTE: Murdercat

Sadly I agree with NM - this is a terrible vote.

[Blitzo]

Uh. Why?

[Blitzo]

I'll vote MC if I have to.
I don't want to but I will.

Btw, OOG question - did something happen with the word lynch? Do we not say that anymore or something or why do we calling it lim?

[Blitzo]

Duly noted, will keep that in mind moving forward.

[Blitzo]

I'll vote MC if I have to.
I don't want to but I will.

Btw, OOG question - did something happen with the word lynch? Do we not say that anymore or something or why do we calling it lim?

If murder flips green, I'm looking at u tmrw. This hesitation says to me that you knew he would flip green and so ur hesitating to get town cred.

lol
I have repeatedly stated that I don't want to vote MC.

[Blitzo]

That is an incredibly unreasonable stance to take, but okay.

[Blitzo]

I am completely disinterested in your thought process here tbh.
Kind of just want everyone else to show up because I think this day is a wash.

[Blitzo]

I don't think is a good lynch but I'll hammer if it becomes necessary.
I'll be on until early in the AMs probably.

[Blitzo]

I don't think is a good elim but I'll hammer if it becomes necessary.
I'll be on until early in the AMs probably.

Sorry, force of habit.

Mod if you could edit that out please.

[Blitzo]

Well that's that.
Will not be surprised to see a green flip here tbh.

[Blitzo]

Well that's that.
Will not be surprised to see a green flip here tbh.

why? bc currently I'm on the other side of things. Id be very surprised to see a green flip

We just killed the most active player in the game who was giving reads right up until he died.
Most of the wagon vote parked and vanished into the ether.

This should be the least surprising green flip of all time.

I'm also honestly not sure what I was supposed to do to not get people to vote him either. The tunnels were so deep...

I understand that I'll look kind of silly if he's scum somehow, but I really don't think that's the case.

[Blitzo]

Yeah that case looks pretty good tbh

What case?

[Blitzo]

Duh Gamma is talking about the pooky case.

I think Gamma agreeing with that case makes him 100% mafia.
There was no real excuse for him not to have that information beforehand and he was obviously lurking about waiting for this lynch to happen.
Probably just looking for target #2.

Gamme has moved quite far down my list.

Pedit - or Bulge tbh.

[Blitzo]

Uh? Why?

[Blitzo]

Put up your dukes.

[Blitzo]

Yo this thing where we call people sus without elaborating why really needs to stop fyi.
Like if anyone that's actually town has questions for me or stuff...I'm all ears and will happily talk things out.
Otherwise, you know...Be scum I guess.

[Blitzo]

And before I anyone asks, I think Bulge is suspicious for that same reason - that he's doing the same exact thing that I'm getting upset about, and I also think he's one of the people who lurked on that wagon a

bit

too much when it was convenient to do so.

Obviously if MC flips scum here then I will reevaluate that, but I really don't think that's going to happen.

[Blitzo]

That's a very telling kill but I won't press in on it just yet
VOTE: Panzer I want to press this starting out. Having thought about things during the night I think MCat getting wagoned over Panzer was something scum were angling towards.

I agree.
I think I got too tunneled and got stuck on pooky over panzer, while panzer was one of my two main elim targets.
I also rethought a bunch of my stances that I had at EoD - I don't think I'm willing to vote Gamma as of right now, while I'm definitely still considering voting bulge.
My gamma case might have been more nitpicky that I originally thought.

VOTE: panzer

Also, I don't think I'm willing to vote out noraa as of right now. I think we need to consider eliminating more low-activity people.

[Blitzo]

Experienced players never straight up OMGUS unless they r stupid

This is just not true.

[Blitzo]

Apologies about being gone EOD last phase, I had a thing come up at work that I forgot to post V/LA for before I took off (My work devices are monitored and I was doing emergency work out of state at kept me away from home overnight. Forgot my personal phone when I left.) I'm starting to get real sick of my weekends getting chewed up by emergency on-call shit. Sig is edited appropriately in case this happens again.

@Blitzo: You seem to have 180ed pretty hard on Gamma since twilight. Going from "he's 100% scum" to "I was being nitpicky" and joining him on the same wagon jarred me a little bit. Curious as to whether you can direct me anywhere in particular in Gamma's ISO that helped you change your mind? I've got some doubts on Gamma's slot right now so I'm wondering if there's something there that works for you that I might have missed.

I didn't really take another look through his ISO, I mostly just realized that him changing his mind after the end wasn't really that big a deal in the grand scheme of things.
I think noraa actually did the same thing and I'm not really willing to lynch her right now either.

Also, I think you're scum.
What are your reads?

[Blitzo]

Do you actually think that? Or is this just the latest progression of your game so far where you advocate for the scumminess of policy-yeet targets, people you seem to personally dislike, low activity players, and other low-hanging fruit? I'm not going to say I don't fit that standard, I very obviously do. I just think it's a pretty questionable standard filled with more things that annoy you than things that are indicative of alignment. If you'd care to engage me on your read of my slot, I'll hold you to your own standards as stated in 1642 and say I expect some receipts to be provided.

I asked you about Gamma because you took a very big flip-reverse on Gamma real fast to the point that I was outright shocked by it. I personally, really dislike Gamma's slot at the moment, so that's my top SR, and here's why.

Even if you take his twilight reaction to the Pooky case out of the equation (which seems to have drawn at least mild interest from elsewhere), the progression of his votes from near the end of D1 through to D2 has me concerned.

First off, I think painting Panzer as a compromise candidate against Noraa and Pooky (and later MC) is kind of disingenuous. The votes on Panzer were basically Gamma and a troll vote from NM and… that was it, really. Maybe more people expressed some amount of interest in it, but as far as I remember the highest amount of unvoted interest expressed in yeeting Panzer came in the context of a discussion about policy-yeeting. It was never all that viable in any real and concerted way and saying otherwise is downright incorrect. Also the Ro3 thing Gamma came up with felt real light, it was a reach, but Panzer had drawn enough irritation that I think it didn't get questioned as much as it should have.

Then, Gamma has a fit of pique and votes for Noraa because he’s had enough of her being… well… her. Understandable to a point but, and no offense intended here, I’ll apologize after the game if I’m wrong on this and it was emotionally genuine, that vote looked like performance art to me. Cover to either flip Noraa green or (potentially, because this grouping is starting to feel very viable to me) cover to distance from Noraa by being on the wagon just long enough to appear to be on the wagon but also be able to do what gets done next.

We’ve got what Gamma says feels like a scum-steered wagon on MC that reaches completion, and I agree on that front, I just also think Gamma's tipping point vote on MC at the time he did so had more to do with steering it than just about anything else that happened. The switch he makes from Noraa to MC is basically the vote that puts all the momentum on the MC wagon (5th vote that puts it clear of Pooky by a couple, and the switch away from Noraa basically derails any chance of her wagon being pushed through.)

Add that to the twilight stuff, and the thing that bugs me… he says the Pooky case actually looks good, after the fact. Forget the assurance in his tone that might or might not be a scumslip that he already knew we were going to see MC flip green. He didn’t see MC’s case until then? Why not? He was active enough, is he not reading the thread properly, is he just skimming? Is he doing any type of real analysis on the posts of the guy he’s about to play a deep part in yeeting before he basically kills every other wagon by switching his vote? Or does he not need to read the thread in that much because he doesn’t have to hunt, he just has to not get caught?

And now… after spending twilight being real mad at Blitzo, and having Blitzo being real questioning of him…. We’re right back to Panzer with nary a comment on that topic, or on the topic of the Pooky case that looked good all of a sudden when it was only noticed too late to make a difference to MC’s day one fate? And Blitzo is right there following him on it, which seems weird, but Blitzo and Panzer have been shitty with each other for the entire game and it fits in with my earlier assessment of Blitzo's method of target accquisition so far, which may not actually be AI.

And of all the wagons during D1, Panzer’s the one that the scum were trying to steer people away from by pushing MC? The guy who was on there first and stayed there to the point where it drew complaints about his play? Not Pooky, who MC actually made a case against that Gamma actually suggested he liked and who was probably in the most danger of anyone else in the game D1 for the consistently longest amount of time without ever actually getting close? Not Noraa, who managed to never get past 3-4 votes without anyone being overly cool with her all day and who hopped on and off the MC wagon a questionable number of times with timing that seemed to coincide with how much steam her own wagon was getting (not even getting into the murky WIFOM-filled NKA waters of pointing out that the only non-Shea vote on her EOD was the one that died at night)? No, not Noraa, nor Pooky, the two actual wagons that got to around 4 votes each and stalled out all of a sudden, but Panzer, the guy who got two, maybe three votes at the absolute max (if I missed one that was on and off in between VCs), one of which was someone throwing a target on Panzer for NM to play along with.

I question the reasoning, the conclusions, and the motivations behind Gamma’s posts, votes and progression in this game. And I question whether he's trying to shift attention to Panzer in order to shift attention away from the other D1 wagons in an effort to shield someone working with him.

VOTE: Gamma

That's my read.

Gamma

One of Noraa or Pooky (or possibly even both but I'm less inclined to that option) just because of how rough their wagons went. Noraa feels more likely than Pooky because it feels like Gamma more actively derailed her wagon, not to mention Noraa's flip-flopping on Gamma so far that could be distancing attempts (remember, Blitzo, those exchanges between you two about how Gamma wasn't happening D1? Noraa was reading that hard when it was vanity, but now she's confused that there's a case on Gamma at all.), whereas Pooky's could have stalled just because MC talked himself into trouble on the grounds of being rather ineffective in making the case, but I can't rule Pooky out.

Any more than that I've yet to come to a strong determination on, but a shortlist to this point includes...
Blitzo (You and Gamma have been on the same page more often than not, and when you haven't been it's been in inconsequential ways, or in twilight snits that miraculously clear up by the time votes start to count again. Plus, I've seen the "attack inactives" line used to buy cheap mis-yeets often enough to mistrust it when I hear it.)
Kasu (this feels unlikely in conjunction with Gamma given the way D2 started and our agreement on his slot, but I have some lingering independent doubts),
NM maybe because who the hell knows with him.
Outworld possibly because I see the "inside baseball" point being made as potentially valid but I'm not overly convinced by it alone and I was generally TRing Outworld D1.
(And obviously as I said already I'm not ruling out both Noraa and Pooky being together and inhabiting scumslots 2 and 3.)

Everyone else I'm either solidly TRing, or I don't think they would, as scum, fit in any sensible way with my stronger reads as they stand. This need to be narrowed down more, obviously, but it's where I'm starting this day off.

I will concede that I called you out without providing much reasoning why in that post, but I think I've actually harped on my current plans for today for the most part back on day 1 - I've stated that I think less actives are a better option for elimination today simply because of how the wagon became an unstoppable mass of votes due to the small number of people who actually showed up for the EoD.
You, due to your lurky nature, are obviously one of those candidates.

I actually don't hate the post you just made, though there are obviously too many scumreads.
Why are your townies town?
If you had to narrow down your scumlist, who would be your top picks?

[Blitzo]

I also don't recall stating that I dislike any player in this game.
Where are you getting that idea from, exactly?

[Blitzo]

Tonal issues between you and Panzer, if I misread you on that front I apologize, though obviously he meets your criteria in other directions. I'll get to the rest of it when I get back home, on my phone now. Just wanted to clarify that part quickly.

That's fair actually, I concede that you may also be correct because I forgot how insufferable he was.

[Blitzo]

At what point do we decide what N_M is doing in this game is outside the bounds of the rules of mafia?

Like real talk.

I will concede that it's a major issue but unless we commit to taking both him and panzer out back to back they'll both be here at lylo, and as much as I want to believe it I feel it's unlikely both of them are mafia.

Can I get an explanation? I'm kind of following your progression but its spread out over so many posts.

very soon, but if you're anxious to know it's pretty recent in her iso

Hiding your vote reasoning after voting seems so...Weird.
Not sure what's going on here tbh but I don't like it.

Gamma, Noraa, Pooky, Blitz is what guesser comes down to.
ironically this is the group of most strongly TRed people from day 1. Almost everyone has expressed concern with his entire pool and I don't think its original to have the exact same pool and also knowing that I'm town basically means this pool isnt right cuz the chances of {Gamma, Pooky, Blitz}, the three most SRed players besides me all being scum is highly unlikely :/

Alright, let's start sorting then shall we? Who are your most likely scum/town in that pile of 4?
Let's start there - I feel like you're getting bogged down in defense too much and I'd really like more of your opinions please. I don't think you have a vote down yet but I feel like you should have a strong idea where to place it.

1793 directly prompted my vote, but 1747 is what i mentioned to you earlier

and yea I do want to talk to you more directly about noraa and outworld but i need to parse some first

This seems nitpicky and bad.

[Blitzo]

I liked bulge at first but the more I read of him, the more suspicious I am.
His scumreads seem poorly thought out (re: noraa and me) and it feels like his attempts to elaborate on them always seem so open (ie - more to come later) which feels decidedly un-town. I feel like he should be sorting his scumreads and it doesn't seem like that's actually happening at all.

@noraa - specifically, I would like to know what you think of Gamma. There was a rather large case on him a few pages back but it seems to have been glossed over outside of your comment that he had too many scumreads. I also feel like he's one of the more scumlisted players in this game, which you seem to agree with. Thoughts?

[Blitzo]

Theres something that doesn't really sit right with me about bulges progression on Nora and It's nagging on me.

I feel like this has been a recurring issue tbh.
Kinda want him to just sit down and explain things if that's possible.

[Blitzo]

I get that you think that but can you actually answer my questions though please?

[Blitzo]

In similar terms gamma is a null.

I just called you a slight SR. How do you feel about it?

I kind of don't really care honestly.
I get that you're fencesitty on him but, like, there's a

huge

case on him that you completely ignored and I'd really like your opinion on it.

[Blitzo]

In similar terms gamma is a null.

I just called you a slight SR. How do you feel about it?

I kind of don't really care honestly.
I get that you're fencesitty on him but, like, there's a

huge

case on him that you completely ignored and I'd really like your opinion on it.

you kind of don't care that I'm SRing u?
LEL u are a full on SR for that statement.
don't throw shade and discredit my opinions like that.

Sorry, but your reads seem shallow and it's hard for me to take them seriously when they aren't really backed by anything.
If you feel like you want to press me on some opinions or something then go for it. I just don't feel like you've presented anything wrt myself that I really need to address because there's nothing there.

I'd be happy to engage you about actual things but I feel like you're just dancing around things happening in thread in order to push nonsense.

I also don't particularly understand why you keep dodging the Gamma case. What's up with that?

[Blitzo]

way to try to flip it around on me knowing that I've played poorly all game.

Can you just answer my questions? They're not even that difficult and I'm not even pressuring you particularly hard.
Like what are you even doing right now?

[Blitzo]

TSQ what is your opinion on Gamma? I remember you commenting on the case saying you liked the post, but then you just kind of went off and did your own thing.
Do you think Gamma is town/scum or did your read not evolve there?

[Blitzo]

lmao I think TSQ went through a bsod.

[Blitzo]

This was an entertaining back and forth.
Anyways.

@Shea - now that you have time, can you give me a read on Gamma now? Seems like you have a scumlist that's mostly set for 2/3 but who's your suspect for the third?

[Blitzo]

@noraa - I'm not actually all that thrilled with this engagement tbh.
I think it's funny but not particularly enlightening, maybe you look worse off for it for how little sense you're making but I'm still not super interested in voting here.

Plenty of other targets to discuss imo.

[Blitzo]

Oye, those are wagons.
Will catch up tomorrow.

[Blitzo]

I wound up having less time than I thought I would but I'm catching up now.

[Blitzo]

I didn't much care for the first part of Gamma's case on noraa, but may have to revisit the other parts?
I don't know, probably still not voting there right now.

Also, uh...I find this Gamma post to be an incredibly performative bus.

Come on.

No reevaluation based on anything, just poorly reasoned nonsense.
I still think this slot is scum and haven't seen much of a reason to think otherwise.

@bulge - you started this battle, homie. I think you have no real legs to stand on here and you're just grasping at straws. Change my mind.

[Blitzo]

Blitzo I'm not sure what you're talking about

EoD1.

This game is annoying to read

You're not wrong.

[Blitzo]

lol
Gamma.
Homie.

I have asked you to refute Guesser's case and you haven't done it, even going so far as to outright state that you won't even bother if he doesn't come back.
You have asked me to claim mason with you in a back and forth that was similar to talking to a brick wall.
And

I'm

the one who's difficult to talk to?

And just an fyi, I was at the gym for the past two hours so

maybe

wait a second for me to respond to stuff when I get back.

[Blitzo]

lol
Gamma.
Homie.

I have asked you to refute Guesser's case and you haven't done it, even going so far as to outright state that you won't even bother if he doesn't come back.
You have asked me to claim mason with you in a back and forth that was similar to talking to a brick wall.
And

I'm

the one who's difficult to talk to?

And just an fyi, I was at the gym for the past two hours so

maybe

wait a second for me to respond to stuff when I get back.

I have had to press you nonstop to interact with me in the hood. When it came to the UG case, I figured he would be able to see when I countered his points through my own actions, so only if he continued to press points I felt my actions had covered would I feel the need to address him directly. And as I said, the pressure he is putting on me shouldn't really affect you that much if you're town. And I don't care where you were at recently because your timing was so impeccable it can't have been coincidence. Two hours doesn't cover the time between Noraa's post that set me on this path and the point I pulled away the curtain.

Whatever dude, I'm not mafia so whatever it is you're posting about timing is pretty pointless.
There were some points in early day 1 that I can concede were me being focused on the main thread rather than the neighborhood but I don't think it's that absurd to focus on the main thread day 1 as opposed to the hood. I would go so far as to say it has only been really relevant today considering how we opened and the emphasis people placed on it.

Back to topic, if you think that UG should be changing his read based on things happening, it doesn't seem like that has happened. What's your read?

[Blitzo]

It seems like UG has cared very little for that line of thinking and seems to be talking about whatever at this point.
He definitely had the same idea I had at EoD day 1 but put it into better words than I did, though he has completely disappeared and stopped caring once he parked his vote.

Not sure what's happening there but it definitely needs to be addressed.

[Blitzo]

Please stop having neighbours

Shush.

I would argue the opposite, D1 is the most important time to use the hood, as that's when you first form your opinions of the game and the players in it and being able to communicate that with someone can be very beneficial if you think you can trust them. And I never really felt like there was a time you were so active in the main thread that you couldn't manage to pop into the hood and share some thoughts. If you really aren't mafia, you're gonna have to give me good reasons not to think that because I have been skeptical of you for most of the game. As for UG, I don't think he's even really talked about his case on me since I posted the meta connections on Noraa, which was the first thing I figured would change his mind, the other being me revealing how we were connected. I'm leaning town on him but I don't feel particularly strongly about it.

I don't agree, but that's fine.
I still don't understand what's happening with you and UG. He's still voting you and done nothing with anything that you've posted? How does that make him town?

[Blitzo]

you're pushing me for jumping to conclusions

so you admit all ur case was basically garbage then?

Not all of it, but there's a big leap I had to make to connect you to Blitzo. It's a possibility, and it's one that I think should be addressed by flipping Blitzo.

VOTE: Blitzo

I'd ask you what prompted the change but I already know I'm wasting my time talking to you.

@noraa - forgive me if I've forgotten but what are your thoughts on panzer/UG?
I specifically recall you talking about UG at one point but I can't remember what was said.

[Blitzo]

Honestly I'm probably just gonna end up voting Gamma because this case is dumb and I feel like I'm trying to ask him reasonable questions that are being completely ignored, but I'm exploring other options regardless.
What do you think of UG now? Is there something that made you think otherwise at some point?

[Blitzo]

I'm not ignoring your questions, and they seem outside of the scope of things you should be worried about as town rn.

I'm not ignoring your questions, I'm just not answering them.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Blitzo]

Oh nevermind, I actually double checked and you did answer them.
Hang on.

[Blitzo]

He caught onto things that kinda made sense to notice. I figured he was trying to work with the information he had and that information led him to conclude I was scum. I wanted to let him be guided to the correct conclusion without having to force it but obviously I can't let people fucking be. Now whatever he concludes, it's not going to be a natural thought process because I had to step in and deal with it, because you wouldn't shut the fuck up about it. Once again, I'll deal with pressure on me how I want and you being so uppity about me doing so make me think you're concerned about how it makes you look by association. This part of my Blitzo scumread is 0% conjecture, it's solely based on the things he has done and what I find the motives of that to be.

This still seems kind of bad tbh. Like, he's clearly talking about stuff albeit at a snail's pace in yet he draws no conclusions about what's going on and you think pressuring him makes his answers fake?

[Blitzo]

I also don't understand why you couldn't have told me that in the neighborhood? It seems like that exact thing would have been 100% relevant and useful there and not out in the open to continue your own plan, so to speak.
It seems like emphasis is being placed on things I don't find particularly relevant, in yet the things that I do find relevant are swept under the rug in a complete antithesis of how you say you're handling things.

[Blitzo]

I'm actually heading back to work now but I'll be back in a few hours - I want to continue this conversation then.
Comment on whatever and I'll get back to you when I'm around.

[Blitzo]

He caught onto things that kinda made sense to notice. I figured he was trying to work with the information he had and that information led him to conclude I was scum. I wanted to let him be guided to the correct conclusion without having to force it but obviously I can't let people fucking be. Now whatever he concludes, it's not going to be a natural thought process because I had to step in and deal with it, because you wouldn't shut the fuck up about it. Once again, I'll deal with pressure on me how I want and you being so uppity about me doing so make me think you're concerned about how it makes you look by association. This part of my Blitzo scumread is 0% conjecture, it's solely based on the things he has done and what I find the motives of that to be.

This still seems kind of bad tbh. Like, he's clearly talking about stuff albeit at a snail's pace in yet he draws no conclusions about what's going on and you think pressuring him makes his answers fake?

I think force-feeding him the answers doesn't allow him to truly show his work. And I could have said that in the hood but I really didn't see why the hell you needed to know? Fourth time saying this I think, but he was pushing me for the most part, not you. So unless you were worried that the pressure on me would lead into pressure on you, which seems like scummy thing to be worried about, it should not be your problem. And yeah, I did kinda shoot myself in the foot but I was mega-spooked so I wasn't exactly thinking that extra step when I wrote out that part.

UG posted similar ideas that I had, except they were much more eloquent.
Then you proceeded to ignore him and blatantly refuse to talk about his case.
Then you tried to get me to claim mason with you which took several back and forths to even get some semblance of an explanation of what you were doing.

Just because someone that isn't me posts thoughts and I start to look into them doesn't make it not relevant to me.

[Blitzo]

Unfortunately I found myself with less time than I thought I would have once again.
I'm not opposed to noraa full claiming here because there's so much nonsense that she's pulled regarding the role in the last few pages that just having that information in the open is probably crucial at this point.

[Blitzo]

I'm here but kinda lurky atm. My shift ends soon so I'll be faffing about in thread until it ends and then I'll review more stuff if necessary.

I’ve been struggling to reconcile my thoughts about how Blitzo was dealing with my mason gambit idea, because I have past experience with doing it myself and the result was scum balking at it but also calling me town for it. I felt like the way Blitzo’s confusion read was a bit incongruous with how that past scum handled things, but upon consideration I realized that past scum just had a unique perspective on that sort of risky play.
So, just on the merits of Blitzo’s own reaction, I think it kinda feels like scum who was concerned about tying themselves to me with a dangerous claim like that. Obviously the intent would never have been to pass as masons, our interactions with each other had passed into explicit suspicion at times. I tried to make it clear that I wanted to find who might be scum accepting the claim immediately, but he kept being confused, and I think it’s because he really didn’t want to make a move that would draw attention to him like that. I’m aware there might be a little confbias because of how similar the read on this is to how I’m reading his interest in me addressing UG. I feel like there is still value to this feeling, however, due to how long it’s been gnawing it me that something was up about it.

Anyway, I see UG responded to me pretty recently, and I think the response is along the lines of the response I’d hoped he’d have without my prodding if the situation. So I feel like maybe I was being stubborn over what was a moot point, though I think Blitzo’s reaction to me dodging the issue was worth more than the potential gain I saw in holding out like I did.

Stop acting like your plan was this well thought out masterpiece.
It took several lines to get

anything

resembling a plan out of you in yet you're acting like the reason is because you had some kind of golden plan and you were crystal clear about everything that was going on. All you said was "let's claim masons" some time after someone posted a case on you which you completely ignored for a huge period of time.

This angle you're pushing is nonsense and I think you need to take a long, hard look at how exactly you've been pushing your ideas. They're nowhere near as clear as you're saying they are.

[Blitzo]

Noraa should full claim now. Putting her at L-1 is putting her in hammer range for NM.

[Blitzo]

@Gamma - You are correct - it doesn't.
I realized that something had happened that I thought was relevant and I couldn't figure out what to make of it.
So I asked around and gathered opinions to maybe flesh out my own more.

Either way it was something that could have been resolved by simply answering me like a week ago which never happened, which is infuriating to no end that your complete refusal to talk to me about the most simple things that probably could have been resolved in less than a day.

UNVOTE:

No longer think Gamma’s the best option. My issues with his D1 voting record remain, but the hood being outed and the issues springing forth from it happening make things different.

Okay so I am actually going to fully out myself here because I’m super fucking concerned about what just transpired. Me and Blitzo are in a neighborhood together and I’ve been constantly struggling to get him to interact in it, and he doesn’t have any hang-ups about using hoods so it really bothers me that he’s so inactive. This was why I supported Shea’s pressure there super-early, in fact. I thought he might have been trying to use hood contents to push me as scum towards the end of D1, and that’s why I threatened civil war. We managed to work it out overnight where he stayed he wasn’t actually referring to hood contents at all but my actions in the main thread. After we resolved that I collaborated with him to decide a push to work on while I waited for MafiaSunny to end, and we landed on Panzer.

So UG, that should address your concerns about my slot, and it’s funny I do this now because Blitzo has been freaking out about your read on me for some time. I’d been starting to grow concerned that he didn’t want me to go down because I am tied to him and have generally been a benefactor for him, plus since your concern about me involved my Blitzo interactions he might have felt pressured through that.

Anyway, on to the real concern of mine that drives me to post this now. I had spoken of my skepticism that the entire limpool for D2 happened to be all town PRs. While speaking on that I mentioned I recalled Noraa dropping he hint of not being a very important role D1. Li and behold Noraa suddenly remembers to speak on that not 3 minutes later. I’m super concerned Blitzo dropped a line to his buddy Noraa to handle that concern, and her, being new, didn’t really have a grasp on how to do that without drawing the attention of the one who had the best window into that connection.

So I’m super concerned about Blitzo and Noraa being partners now, and if we’re not gonna vote Noraa because she softed a PR can we PLEASE consider voting Blitzo out instead for seemingly feeding Noraa lines to handle my suspicions?

Explains some of what I was feeling, actually. Something about you and Blitzo together kept nagging even after your twilight interactions, as you noted, and did some to inform my leanings on him.

I think force-feeding him the answers doesn't allow him to truly show his work. And I could have said that in the hood but I really didn't see why the hell you needed to know? Fourth time saying this I think, but he was pushing me for the most part, not you. So unless you were worried that the pressure on me would lead into pressure on you, which seems like scummy thing to be worried about, it should not be your problem. And yeah, I did kinda shoot myself in the foot but I was mega-spooked so I wasn't exactly thinking that extra step when I wrote out that part.

I didn't push the issue because I felt okay with my vote as it stood at the time, and since I wasn't particularly confident in my overall grasp of the game beyond it I felt ok parking and using my time to evaluate other players. I actually found myself becoming less interested in your reactions (I’ve started feeling better about you as the day went on, all things considered) and more interested in the fact that Blitzo kept asking other people in the game about their opinions on my case on you.

I think Pooky referenced it too, earlier on during the phase, that when I first dropped the vote on you he was shading me a little on the back and forth then suddenly a few other people expressed approval of the post and he backed off of me and started trying to gather opinions on you instead. The hood existing makes sense of his response, but not really in a good way, for me. See, if Blitzo’s green and thinks Gamma’s red, what exactly is he worried about, right? He can just stop using the hood, push you straight up, out the hood himself, etc… why the push by proxy? Because that’s what it seemed like, when Blitzo kept asking people about my Gamma case, it felt like he was trying it on my behalf while trying to keep himself from really being seen to be a part of it.

So, Biltzo has said he agreed with me, and if that’s the case…
-Why shade me?
-Why back off shading me when people in the game liked my posts?
-Why not actually express agreement on things himself, why spend all of his time trying to gauge the rest of the playerlist about what they thought of Gamma?
-Why only act on his own suspicions on Gamma when Gamma calls him out?

Starting to think Blitzo figured he could push a wagon on one of us, but was more interested in finding out which wagon was easier than picking the right wagon.

Like, Blitzo MIGHT just be paranoid as hell, here, but there’s a few things wrong there for me right now.

HOWEVER….

After everything with Noraa, Blitzo becomes less of a concern for me this day, at least until Noraa claims, there’s just TOO goddamn much at this point from her.

All the people that want the Noraa claim… I nth their motion.
(Also lul she doesn't know how to read me. Same shit again and again, she's done it to Shea, she's done it to me, she's doing it to Gamma now... she knows to SR people talking about her and ignore people that aren't. Stopped actively SRing me when I stopped talking, look how that worked out. Pretty much every goddamn time at this point.)

VOTE: Noraa

*You aren't as towny as you think you are and I'm trying to shape my reads based on your incredibly subpar participation, which is difficult enough as is.
*Uh. What?
*I have given this answer to Gamma as per the above.
*I was talking to Gamma in the neighborhood trying to get more information which was like pulling teeth.

[Blitzo]

I will not that I'm

still

not entirely certain what happened wrt Gamma/UG and I still need some kind of resolution there considering how weird it was.
UG popping back into the thread to unvote his scumread only when everyone else is switching is not the best and definitely needs more looking into, especially since Gamma started posting those things way beforehand and not afterwards. Seems like an unnatural evolution of a read.

@Kasu - good question, I'm gonna look back into the neighborhood and answer you shortly.

[Blitzo]

*I will note.

Sorry, typo.
Anyways.

[Blitzo]

Blitzo, beyond being unclear, is there anything about Gamma's messages to you that you'd say is AI?

I double checked back in the neighborhood.
I would say not really.
I remember feeling better about him after EoD1 after we talked things out for a bit and then I was thrown for a loop day 2 wrt him/UG.
A lot of his thoughts seem fine before he went and did the thing.

There was read discussion for a long time but other than that there's been little discussed.
If you want to know about

specific

reads I'm sure I can dig them up but pretty much everything in there is congruous with the thread.

[Blitzo]

I'm also getting incredibly annoyed with the fact that the game continues to be active posters arguing amongst themselves while more than half the game does nothing.
It seems like the tunnels are getting worse all the time and people are just hopping on wagon du joir when it becomes convenient to do so.

If noraa flips scum here I'd be happy but still somewhat surprised.

[Blitzo]

so you think noraa is town here? how are you seeing that?

Well.
She can be.
I can also see a world where she isn't.

It just consistently feels so bad to watch eliminations happen by people just kind of flopping about onto whatever is convenient.
More than half the game is so...

Nothing

that it's hard to watch the unstoppable mass of lazy butts meandering uselessly onto the most convenient vote and still think it's a good idea.

Gamma seemed to be that for a while.
Now it's noraa.

Granted noraa's claim is mediocre thus far and maybe she's just scum who screwed up and I'm overthinking things but this feels so similar to the MC elimination that I'm having a hard time getting behind it.

Honestly she should just claim so we can see what we have to do about it.

PEDIT:

Gamma and blitzo are just scum.

lol

[Blitzo]

Basically it's my logical conclusion that noraa is scum based on making no sense versus thinking she's town because the environment is just bad.
I'm not sure but her role definitely needs to be resolved now.

As for panzer, he has consistently shown that he doesn't care about what's going on in thread and continues to push reads that make no sense.
This is the second time that he's done this I can think of offhand and it really shouldn't be surprising to anyone at this point.

[Blitzo]

mafia that are neighbors with each other?

they would be lying about the neighborhood in this case

lol

[Blitzo]

I've never heard of something like that.
Is that something that MS has or no?

I honestly have no idea.

[Blitzo]

I just checked the wiki - it exists.
It also seems like scum can be a checker.

Pedit - seriously?

[Blitzo]

Whatever, I've lost interest in this.
VOTE: gamma

I'm not really interested in dragging this nonsense out. You don't really have much of an excuse at this point so if you're just gonna ignore everything I post then I'm going to vote you back.

[Blitzo]

It is literally impossible to be confirmed off of that claim.

[Blitzo]

This gamma push is making me so angry lmao.

[Blitzo]

Today's gamma is the townie gamma I remember from white flag so I'm not really interested in looking in that direction.

Can you back that up with actual things?
He definitely doesn't look townie from where I'm standing.

[Blitzo]

Actually I'd like for you to weigh in on our back and forth because I'm getting really annoyed at being ignored for so long and I feel like I'm making a lot of sense here but nobody else is reading into it.

[Blitzo]

What do you think I'm ignoring you on? Which posts?

Not you necessarily, I just feel like that's kind of a running theme with how people are interacting with me this game.
Like I say something, and people are just kind of like "whatever" and I'm still somehow just kind of...Here. I'm

still

the only person on panzer and I have no idea why - people seem content to write him off as well.
I feel like gamma's push has definitely fallen under that umbrella and I feel like that should be addressed in some manner.
Maybe I'm stuck in a bit of a rut of thinking.

Another question - does the content match that of white flag? I can go out and read it (though I definitely won't be done with that by EoD) but I figured maybe you could point out some more similarities that would make him townie?
Do you have a specific reason to not be voting panzer?

[Blitzo]

I feel like I may have asked you about panzer at some point but I feel like him just straight up ignoring the neighborhood claim and consistently having the same scumreads for no reason pretty much makes him scum.
I just don't see any other way of thinking about it tbh.

[Blitzo]

I feel more strongly about the bulge.

I saw your brackets but surely there's more than that?
I actually forgot you even had brackets until gamma pointed it out.

[Blitzo]

Its mainly the way hes been interacting with the game which seems off to me.

I could go back and dig up examples if you'd like. But I'd still prefer noraa today.

I want to say yes but I'm actually not even sure I care enough to make you do that because I'm pretty sure I want both of them eliminated either way.

[Blitzo]

I'm pretty sure I want both of them eliminated either way.

you just unvoted me and you say this. VOTE: Blitz

No you fucking dope I was talking about bulge and panzer.

[Blitzo]

I don't understand why I'm being voted.

[Blitzo]

Like if people aren't just scum and actually want to talk to me, you know...I'm here.
I don't really understand why there's so much thread sentiment there and I'd love to know why. I feel like I've addressed everything and I don't understand the thread sentiment there?

I can vote noraa but it's mostly just to not be elim'd instead.

Pedit - Gamma I actually don't think you really have much of an excuse to be voting me anymore so if you could just not sweep that under the rug again that'd be awesome.
Double pedit - that is incredibly shallow reasoning pooky.

[Blitzo]

there's other stuff too that gamma mentioned - like the way you latched on to the anti-Gamma case which mostly centered on his shift in relation with you - despite knowing that the shift was due to your overnight convo in the neighborhood.

That part is super shady af.

It's actually not.
Have you read UG's case?
Serious question.

[Blitzo]

Gamma I actually don't think you really have much of an excuse to be voting me anymore so if you could just not sweep that under the rug again that'd be awesome.

I think I am not using an excuse to vote you. While I thought you might be partners with Noraa I’ve felt your play throughout the game has been suspicious at multiple times, and after I wrote all of it out while outing the hood I pretty much realized “this is actually a lot of evidence I’m looking at”.
I thought your entry into the game was suspect, I’ve had to fight tooth and nail to get you to post content in the hood several times, including him going pretty damn quiet after I posted the Noraa meta wall (his posts past then were just apologizing for being away, prodding me to deal with the UG case again, and discussing town power level, as well as one empty reaction post close after I outed the hood, which I find interesting given his previous slow-feeling response times). There was definitely content to discuss, such as what I told you about my feelings on the NK after I wasn’t limited by ongoing game rules, but your content at that point was very surface-level.
There’s also the part where you had written me off as town apparently, back towards early-mid D1. If you’d truly thought I was Town because we were neighbors, why was there no greater attempt from you to try and make use of the hood early on? If you thought I was guaranteed Town the hood was a masonry in all but name, no? Despite that I absolutely was driving the early talk.
And then obviously there’s the things I’ve already talked on regarding your handling of the UG case on me and your inability to grasp my mason gambit idea, which I feel like I’ve been pretty clear on by now, but you seem to be claiming I’m not. That’s actually a common thread I noticed after checking the hood contents in full again, because you also accused Shea of dodging your questions when he wasn’t. In addition I had a point where I felt it ironic you’d called Shea on that but also got semantic with Noraa over whether you were avoiding solving her, maybe that was an actual scumtell I failed to grasp at the time?

*Again, I stand by the way that you and I handled the neighborhood is completely different and I fail to see how that's AI. The hood is

really

not that important and the one time it became relevant you went and blew it up.
*I don't see how my content is really that surface level? I might need that elaborated on because I feel like I've been analyzing the game environment pretty thoroughly on a number of occasions.
*Your mason gambit idea was handled incredibly poorly and you seem to think that me repeatedly asking about it makes me scum? Again, this is you being bad at communicating.

@pooky - there were two goddamn lines about the neighborhood. WHAT ABOUT EVERYTHING ELSE?

[Blitzo]

@pooky - there were two goddamn lines about the neighborhood. WHAT ABOUT EVERYTHING ELSE?

the whole point of his Gamma case was that his progression doesn't make sense.

but you being in a neighborhood with him and talking it out with him - makes that progression make sense.

Do you not understand!?

The stuff we talked about in the neighborhood was beforehand, not after - there were plenty of other things that UG talked about that had nothing to do with the hood in yet those are constantly being overlooked. I actually only harped on one point (re: his read change on pooky) but UG posted a slew of other things and Gamma just went "yeah I'll be wary of him" and then tried to get us to claim masons.
I have spent the majority of today trying to get Gamma to talk about these things and it just never happened. It's just so much noise and this current turn of events is just terrible tbh.

[Blitzo]

why wouldn't you want to claim masons? it's a pretty good way to draw mafia NK if you are T-T and if you don't draw NK you have an idea it's not T-T.

I never really had the option to make a decision - Gamma just kind of decided to reveal the neighborhood. I was pressing him on the plan because I didn't understand it so well and didn't know how to read reactions off of it but it amounted to nothing anyway.

[Blitzo]

Scratch that - I did have the option to just go through with it.
I just didn't understand it so well or how to read into what it would produce and now we're here.

[Blitzo]

I'll vote noraa in the morning if nobody else does it.
It's obvious nothing else will happen which is fine at this point I guess.

[Blitzo]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: noraa

[Blitzo]

I don't really know how I feel about that elimination tbh. It feels like the tunnels in this game are crazy deep and need to be reassessed.
UG was also pretty inactive and, along with the duppin kill, reeks of trying to preserve gamestate.
I think we need to reassess the fact that the reason this game might be so confusing is because TSQ is actually scum - there's pretty much no reason to kill UG over him and that really needs to be looked into.

UG checked Gamma and came back with not VT - seems likely that's where his case came from.
Makes sense to me.

[Blitzo]

I also think we need to look into eliminating one of the more background-y players today. NM is the most obvious candidate but based on the way the NKs are going, it seems like there's a fair chance he might actually be town here.
Panzer is also an obvious candidate imo. I'm at work and can look back into that when I'm done in a few hours but that's where I'm looking right now.

[Blitzo]

I would debate you but I'd like to see what you come up with first.

[Blitzo]

lmfao what

[Blitzo]

What are the roles in this game? This is insanity.
So, what, either OW is mafia or we need to elim today?

That seems so...

bad.

[Blitzo]

Is anyone here any good at setup spec? The roles in this game are all messed up and I have no idea what to make of it since I haven't hosted in almost half a decade or something.

[Blitzo]

Hold on.

looking back im mad i ever dropped my outworld sr lmao

also may as well spoil this now even tho im not done reading i think shea is his partner. it explains why that whole interaction about the nk analysis blew over in such a weird way.

Can you elaborate on this a bit?

[Blitzo]

Yes please do that - I think shea should definitely start being considered for realsies now.

Back onto outworld, I think he really needs to town it up or something or do some major gamesolving.
From his point of view the game is essentially eylo but he's just so whatever about it that it's hard to take it seriously.

[Blitzo]

I mean you're probably right.
I can also come up with a slew of other reasons as to why shea can be scum this game though I will admit that I glossed over that whole exchange for the most part.

[Blitzo]

I don't know. I still don't really regret glossing over it. It just seems like such an inane point to make?
Town speculates on NKs all the time - Gamma and I were doing it in the neighborhood and I'm pretty sure I've done so in thread and never got called out for it?
I actually need to doublecheck my own ISO. Hang on.

[Blitzo]

Yeah I doublechecked and I didn't say it in thread, just in the neighborhood.

I can definitely vote outworlder here but I'd like for the rest of the game to check in before moving forwards.

[Blitzo]

Bulge who's your third right now?

[Blitzo]

Someone please explain to me like I'm real dumb why we should lim OW today instead of tomorrow

If he's town, we lose if we miss elsewhere.
Otherwise I guess there's not much of a difference? Getting a red flip is

always

good because it gives us so much more to work with outside of just saving him on the off chance we hit red elsewhere.
The more I think about it the more likely he's just scum and eliminating him is fine.

Do you have a specific reason to not want to eliminate him?

[Blitzo]

Honestly if he's scum that claim is best for buying him

exactly

one more day.
That might be exactly what he was banking on.

[Blitzo]

I completely misinterpreted what Innocent Child is.
Hang on a second I'm gonna stop posting until I figure out wtf I'm talking about.

[Blitzo]

Alright I understand it now.
You might be right.
And this also kind of ruins the whole shea!scum idea that we had going unless outworld is just mafia.

Kasu who are your three right now?

[Blitzo]

Tbh if it’s Shea!scum and we vote him out for not being the NK either night I’m gonna lmfao
And I really don’t see how one more day changes anything regarding OWER, unless there’s something they wanna keep under wraps
And I think we could just massclaim to avert that chance entirely

You know that's not why I'm considering shea, simply the reason I started talking about it in thread.
Though I will admit that a massclaim might be in order? Especially since OWER is guaranteed to be the kill unless he's scum, or another role dies and we have conftown.

PEDIT - the only reason I was considering eliminating him today is because I got IC mixed up with another role. Surely you have other plans for today bulge?

DOUBLE PEDIT -

I completely misinterpreted what Innocent Child is.
Hang on a second I'm gonna stop posting until I figure out wtf I'm talking about.

lol I assume you were thinking like a Day 4 Treestump or something?

Yeah pretty much.

[Blitzo]

Honestly if he's scum that claim is best for buying him

exactly

one more day.
That might be exactly what he was banking on.

like I don't get this comment at all.

I think we need to reassess the fact that the reason this game might be so confusing is because TSQ is actually scum - there's pretty much no reason to kill UG over him and that really needs to be looked into.

or this post

I feel like these are really easily explained or obvious conclusions to draw?
I'm also not the first person to say this about TSQ in yet this seems to be the first time you're talking about this.

[Blitzo]

This game is making me angry again.

I'm getting the feeling I should have stuck with my pooky elim on day 1.
I'm busy but will dive back into his ISO to see if he actually talked about TSQ at any point because this is definitely not the first time someone has made that observation in yet this seems to be the first time he's bringing it up. I'll probably do that later tonight actually.

[Blitzo]

I'm also aware that I might be biased against him just because he's voting me but it feels so nitpicky.
I feel like if someone had an issue with my posts there they would talk to me about it and that hasn't happened.

you're fishing for traction on d3

Good analysis there, bro.

[Blitzo]

VOTE: pooky
Whatever dude. Misrepping my posts will get you nowhere.

[Blitzo]

We didn't really talk about anything - you just slandered my posts and made no real effort to engage me.
I should have pushed harder to lim you on day 1.

[Blitzo]

so why didnt you push me on d2.

funny how you only vote me when I vote you

Gamma spent the majority of day 1 convincing me not to.
Then I did environmental analysis and came to the conclusion that I should spend time voting elsewhere.

It's also much more apparent you don't care about my answers or anything I say when you actually vote me so there's that.

[Blitzo]

Gamma spent the majority of day 1 convincing me not to.
Then I did environmental analysis and came to the conclusion that I should spend time voting elsewhere.

It's also much more apparent you don't care about my answers or anything I say when you actually vote me so there's that.

ok sure explain yourself then if you say I'm mis-reping you.

Well.
I feel like my posts your quoting are actually either easily explained (re: I misunderstood IC and backed off as soon as I realized my mistake) or something that's been repeated ad nauseum throughout the game (shea being suspicious if he's alive long periods of time) and it seems like that's just something you're rolling with rather than trying to get to the heart of the matter or trying to understand where it's coming from.
"Fishing for traction" also feels particularly absurd? It seems like that's pretty baseless as well tbh.

[Blitzo]

ok then you say it's not fishing for traction, you mind telling me what's the point of making a comment like this:

I don't really know how I feel about that elimination tbh. It feels like the tunnels in this game are crazy deep and need to be reassessed.
UG was also pretty inactive and, along with the duppin kill, reeks of trying to preserve gamestate.
I think we need to reassess the fact that the reason this game might be so confusing is because TSQ is actually scum - there's pretty much no reason to kill UG over him and that really needs to be looked into.

Like what's your goal? What's your line of thought? What do you want to assess?

Sifting through people who are coasting. I've been posting about this almost since day 1 and don't see why I should reiterate it again - this is pretty much the primary thing that I've been focused on since the start of the game almost, and I've harped on it almost every single day since EoD1.

Bulge is barely being coherent and posts like 2405 and 2406 read like the insane ramblings of a madman. I agree with Shea in that I just...can't respond to that. There's not really anything to respond to.

That said:

vote nm

We gotta do it at some point and tonight is a better spot than tomorrow.

This post is incredibly garbage. You've had an entire 2 days before this (and previous days you've given SR's, including myself and Gamma) and now your shifting to a policy elim on D3? Combined with your Noraa vote on D2 I'm pretty convinced your one of the scum trying to coast by.

VOTE: Panzerjager

I agree.

Like honest question panzer, if you think that policy elim of someone who has been useless is a good idea right now, why would the town prioritize killing N_M over you from our POV?

I agree that this should definitely be addressed.

[Blitzo]

@Bulge - do you have an actual case on tsq or outworld?

[Blitzo]

Yeah but this just resolves itself.
Like we're not eliminating him today because he's confirmed either way so what's the point?

[Blitzo]

Sifting through people who are coasting. I've been posting about this almost since day 1 and don't see why I should reiterate it again - this is pretty much the primary thing that I've been focused on since the start of the game almost, and I've harped on it almost every single day since EoD1.

ok so how does posting speculation about Shea not being dead help you do the above?

It doesn't but I also don't see why that matters, nor why that precludes me of being suspicious of shea?

[Blitzo]

This line of questioning feels so inane.
Pooky has to be scum.
He can't be town.
He

can't.

It would tear the fabric of reality for him to be town here.

[Blitzo]

Alternatively we can turn around elim panzer.
That's always a fun vote I think.

[Blitzo]

are you trolling me

No?

I think we need to reassess the fact that the reason this game might be so confusing is because TSQ is actually scum - there's pretty much no reason to kill UG over him and that really needs to be looked into.

I don't understand why you would say this in your first post waking up from D3 if your plan is to go after the "backgroundy players" as you put it.

Do you suspect Shea for being alive or not?

I think it's a reason to look into him or to reassess him.
He's definitely not a top elim target for me but really, at this stage, I think we should be reevaluating or at least be open to the possibility that him being scum would explain why this game is so difficult.
No, we aren't

going

to eliminate him based on the fact that he is alive but I think we should stop running with the fact that he's just town and should never be eliminated which seems to have been a running theme with all of the earlier days.

The issue is always that his posts are always so reasonable that it's just hard to imagine he is...

[Blitzo]

I will admit that I'm far more fencesitty on TSQ than I expected but idk if I can hash my read out much more than I have.
He sounds town but could be mafia.
Just like a majority of the other players in this game and I'm just...Not sure.

I also see what bulge is saying about outworlder.
Serious show of hands - who's actually okay with eliminated the claimed IC the day before they can confirm themselves?
Because that seems like such a terrible idea when we can just wait it out and see what happens.

PEDIT:
@TSQ - ?
@Gamma - I've been suspicious of panzer for an extremely long period of time and think he is also mafia. What's to be confused about?

[Blitzo]

lol I figured.
Anyways.

[Blitzo]

Oh and the @Gamma is actually @pooky.
I misread something and then misattributed that post to the wrong guy my bad.

[Blitzo]

Also a random serious question:
I haven't hosted a game in years and don't know how role distribution works, but is there actually some sort of chance scum could have extra KP in a mini normal? I'm

assuming

the answer is no but I'd like to know from the people that play here more frequently than myself.

[Blitzo]

Killing power.
I forgot if that's the term you guys use here or not.

[Blitzo]

Okay.
So I'm right back at not caring about outworlder in any fashion.

Anyways.

[Blitzo]

Assuming that mafia won't blatantly push bad elims is a big no-no.

[Blitzo]

I would like to see bulge's reads outside of outworlder.
I know shea is one but there's another he can find and idk where he's at on that. I'd like to know.

[Blitzo]

I'm here.
I'm quite happy with Gamma's pressure on pooky. Maybe I will revisit my pooky read.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: panzer

I mimic the thoughts that panzer has been useless and scummy almost all game and am happy limming him. In fact, even during my pooky analysis in the neighborhood, I became even more sure of my panzer read. I'm quite happy with a wagon on him and I'm also happy following my gamestate read that I've been pushing since day 1.

[Blitzo]

I love how we have to constantly revisit the fact that OWER is IC.
This game is hilarious.

[Blitzo]

I'm here.
We're talking about eliminating the IC again - cool.
I'm still voting panzer.

Not much else to discuss until he flips I guess.

[Blitzo]

Sorry, I keep forgetting that being active in the hood doesn't count for game activity.
I've been around I just haven't posted in this thread.

[Blitzo]

Post because I have to.
I have little to add at this point. Seems like the game is stagnant again.

[Blitzo]

Post because I have to.
I have little to add at this point. Seems like the game is stagnant again.

you haven't said anything about me vs shea, even though you expressed interest in looking further into shea around daystart

I talked about it in the neighborhood.
I will talk about it more tomorrow if I'm still here.
I will absolutely talk it over with Gamma in the neighborhood come nightfall, especially considering we'll have a flip to work with after the fact.

I will note that I'm more suspicious of shea in your little tiff as of right now but I see little reason to elaborate on it until later.

[Blitzo]

Definitely time for a massclaim.
Will not be officially checking in until tonight when I'm off work.

[Blitzo]

ok so im thinking scum are mainly among those who believed the claim because i stand by what i say that was not IC play.

@Blitzo here’s a concrete example of what the mason gambit would have been meant to accomplish

Cool.

I think I want Blitzo today

Care to explain why?

[Blitzo]

I discussed some things over night with Gamma and came up with some ideas.
I want everyone to check in or finish rereading and go on from there before talking about what gamma/me spoke of overnight.

I also kind of assumed that OWER was dead and the mod messed something up earlier and had 8 people listed for some reason.
I think a massclaim here is still advisable.

[Blitzo]

ok so im thinking scum are mainly among those who believed the claim because i stand by what i say that was not IC play.

@Blitzo here’s a concrete example of what the mason gambit would have been meant to accomplish

Cool.

I think I want Blitzo today

Care to explain why?

PoE

No, that's not going to cut it. There has to be more than this - this is useless on its own, especially from someone who has no real reads.

Popcorn massclaim go!

VT

Nom Blitzo

...Neighbor?

[Blitzo]

How can you even PoE me as scum and not know that I was claimed like 2 days ago?

PEDIT - I don't care someone else can claim.

[Blitzo]

Why would you not protect the claimed IC? That seems so bad.

[Blitzo]

Why does that make kasu town anyways? Can't a jail on this site stop a kill from going out or in?
Forgive me if I don't remember but that seems super off as well.