Mini Normal 2173 | Bending | Game Over

[Flavor Leaf]

imma lurk out to day 3 and solve, cool with everyone?

[Flavor Leaf]

hi flavor give me a good reason not to yeet u bc im like 95% sure ur slot is scum

probably scum trying to dictate the gamestate here on first glance ^

I haven't read the game.

[Flavor Leaf]

read my last few posts and guess.

right, you're probably scum too

[Flavor Leaf]

who'd I replace? lol

[Flavor Leaf]

You remember how well that worked out last game? Learn2read m8
Any perceived offense from this post is intended

Why offense? I just told you I think you're town.

[Flavor Leaf]

I'm a fucking Aspy, sarcasm is already frequently lost on me. You expect me to get sarcasm when it's coached as a bald-faced lie?

I stated you're probably scum, which means I town read you. No sarcasm.

Although, most of the time my sarcasm/sassy nature just gets passed by like it isn't, and I usually stay quiet, because it's totally my fault for being sarcastic with dry sass on forum Mafia. Can't help it.

[Flavor Leaf]

you flip-flop on me so much though that I can't trust that

I flip flop on everyone. I don't trust my reads to be correct until a bit later in the game. I read gamestate.

Who's scummiest to you so far? I'd like to read the game with your thoughts on the overall gamestate in mind.

[Flavor Leaf]

like srsly mad scummy to just vote and say nothing shows hesitation and fear

like srsly mad scummy to just vote and say nothing shows hesitation and fear

VOTE: dkkoba

This would have been my exact response, so mind meld with Taylor.

I was gonna do a full catch up, but I got bored on page 4, so I'll be back here and there to respond in real time with people if they wanna talk to me.

Just shout "Hey, Flavor, I like the things you doooo. Hey, Flavor! I wish I could be you. The one and only taste, the one only tiger. It's Flavor Leaf, more than great. They're good."

[Flavor Leaf]

Don't come for the smoke, if you too intimidated of the puff cloud.

[Flavor Leaf]

i still dont trust the slot but flavor has successfully made me want to avoid interacting with them so kudos to that

Just for future reference, if you do actually have to ever deal with ScumMe, this is the exact kind of post that will allow me to run the game from behind the scenes.

[Flavor Leaf]

Is there a chance scumJV would say that and add a scum member into that list? If we're living in that world, that's 2 caught scum.

[Flavor Leaf]

Also, that's a possible traitor crumb

[Flavor Leaf]

Is there a chance scumJV would say that and add a scum member into that list? If we're living in that world, that's 2 caught scum.

You know about rule of three don't you? It's possible, but if JV is groupscum (as in not traitor) I think that group contains 1 MAX.

that's essentially what I was implying with the 2 scum. JV would be 1 of them with 1 from the grouping.

[Flavor Leaf]

Maybe I just naturally see Taylor as scummy because I'm now tinfoiling a JV, Taylor, Infinity team.

[Flavor Leaf]

We're more talking about that in the way that JV is lying scum about the informed 1 of 3 is scum, and if he were scum there, 1 and only 1 of the list would be scum, if that makes sense.

If he's traitor, hell, this could be a 4 person team, and JV just pulled a blunder, which I have seen happen, and caught out a scum team because of only to eventually lose to the Secret SK who's kills went missing so they were completely unknown.

[Flavor Leaf]

Maybe I just naturally see Taylor as scummy because I'm now tinfoiling a JV, Taylor, Infinity team.

oh yep me and my top scumread are for sure buddy buddy

why does this have anything to do with anything? It's day 1.

[Flavor Leaf]

I also stated it was a tinfoil read, so I don't understand the clapback.

[Flavor Leaf]

I'm informed that there's scum within Shelly, DKKoba and Infinity. Probably should out that rn

I'm informed that there's scum

I'm informed

I was fake-claiming to be an Informed [redacted] to gauge reactions. Also getting at shelly by saying fake-claim = bad.

I do it all the time on my home-site so much that my claim is never actually believed ever anymore lmfaoooo

What kind of playstyle is this even?!?!

[Flavor Leaf]

Not gonna lie, I am still tortured from the 3 games in a row I had where there were 4 scum in a 13p game, and it's just not fun either side, so I could be tunneling onto a traitor paranoia in JV.

[Flavor Leaf]

does anyone have a good read on how perceptive Taylor is in town games? I can't get a read on her indicated perceptiveness in this game

If I want to vig her, that means she's town.

[Flavor Leaf]

does anyone have a good read on how perceptive Taylor is in town games? I can't get a read on her indicated perceptiveness in this game

what do you think of 976? It makes Taylor's other posts like a little weird, but I think it might just be personality.

[Flavor Leaf]

does anyone have a good read on how perceptive Taylor is in town games? I can't get a read on her indicated perceptiveness in this game

what do you think of 976? It makes Taylor's other posts like a little weird, but I think it might just be personality.

i think all her posts come from town, personally

Scum you would think this too, though.

And we're in a weird spot, where if I start to town read you, I'm gonna think you're scum, so I can't really touch on you at all today without feeling biased in some fashion, so this is going to be interesting.

I don't think Gamma is scum at all here anymore, but I've been noticeably bad at reading them the past year or so.

[Flavor Leaf]

yeah im generally hopeless at reading gamma because the things i use to read are not the things gamma does at all. my brain is not compatible with gammas brain. i think maybe it goes both ways .

For years, I was able to soul read them like instantly. I remember Gamma when they were a newbie, and we played in that Fire Emblem micro game, and they were a Seraph Knight or something. One of his first games, and I think I hard defended him there correctly.

So it sucks I can't read him, however, I was gone from like March-End of September, so I'm calling it rust.

[Flavor Leaf]

but why wouldn't scum you, is the thing? if that makes sense. ScumYou's not gonna call yourself scum anymore than town you would call yourself scum.

I don't know where I want to vote yet. I don't think scum has been scummy yet, so I just have to start grabbing different threads, probably read the middle pages of this game a bit better.

[Flavor Leaf]

@Flavor Leaf, don’t believe we’ve played together before. Looking forward.

Hello all! I’m excited to play my first game here. Let me catch up I was not aware the game had started already. Oh and for those that will ask about my experience or where I come from - I typically play on a small rather newish forum called Mafia451. I think I’ve played north of 100 games there (if you go to it you’ll quickly realize I play basically every game). So that’s a bit of background about me. I don’t recognize anybody from the playerlist so this will be fun, though I did read a few games around the site just to get a feel for the meta here.

were you in that Josh game over on 451 about a year back?

[Flavor Leaf]

@Flavor Leaf, don’t believe we’ve played together before. Looking forward.

Hello all! I’m excited to play my first game here. Let me catch up I was not aware the game had started already. Oh and for those that will ask about my experience or where I come from - I typically play on a small rather newish forum called Mafia451. I think I’ve played north of 100 games there (if you go to it you’ll quickly realize I play basically every game). So that’s a bit of background about me. I don’t recognize anybody from the playerlist so this will be fun, though I did read a few games around the site just to get a feel for the meta here.

were you in that Josh game over on 451 about a year back?

@Andres - I just checked, yes, we were both in Josh Mafia about a year and a half ago together on Maf451. We had a fire scum team, but I think I'm the only one who did anything, and I fake claimed Jester as scum over there, and then JJH got a triple chain venge shot on all the remaining scum.

That was one of the games I was a Scum Dreaming God. I always lose when I roll that roll.

[Flavor Leaf]

i kinda tr flavor now and its kinda funny why but i dont know if i can explain it

Scum who was gonna try and 1v1 me possibly ^

I know nothing about Dkoba, but I've gotten this knee jerk reaction multiple times with them this game, just by reading the game, or the way they talked as soon as I replaced in.

Anyone wanna weigh in on thoughts on Dakoba?

[Flavor Leaf]

Scum who was gonna try and 1v1 me possibly ^

but then decided against it, is what I meant by this.

[Flavor Leaf]

i like you two talking, keep that up. I am noting Taylor's potential discredit of Dk's town read on me, which simultaneously can discredit both Dk slot and my slot.

I'm starting to want to Vig Taylor.

[Flavor Leaf]

I know nothing about Dkoba, but I've gotten this knee jerk reaction multiple times with them this game, just by reading the game, or the way they talked as soon as I replaced in.

I really thought they were town earlier, but they haven't done anything towny in a while, which is usually a bad sign.

from what I see of Dk, I don't know if scum them would see me as a strong enough threat to back down from a 1v1 with me, but the game was morphing, so maybe they just chose the safer, calmer route. I'm excited to see where the gamestate goes now, though.

[Flavor Leaf]

Also I know Flavor (back in the days when he was only know as boon) had some issues with trust telling in the past with self voting. So I think he's enjoying this.

the one time I was modkilled was just a misunderstanding however. That's the game I realized if I town read Flubber, it means he's scum, and if I scum read him, he's town, which helped me correctly Fork Bins in Fork Mafia.

I did self vote as scum to purposefully break it.

[Flavor Leaf]

I'm ready to make a play, if only to spice things up.

VOTE: Jackson

[Flavor Leaf]

Also I know Flavor (back in the days when he was only know as boon) had some issues with trust telling in the past with self voting. So I think he's enjoying this.

the one time I was modkilled was just a misunderstanding however. That's the game I realized if I town read Flubber, it means he's scum, and if I scum read him, he's town, which helped me correctly Fork Bins in Fork Mafia.

I did self vote as scum to purposefully break it.

iirc you also got banned for it once

Did I?

I don't think I've ever been banned, I've been giving a few warnings, and the replacement rule definitely got pushed further because of the Flavor Leaf vs RadiantCowbells feud, but I think I've been pretty good about not getting in actual trouble, probably to the dismay of others, but I push boundaries, I don't break them. I only break glass ceilings.

[Flavor Leaf]

@Flavor Leaf, don’t believe we’ve played together before. Looking forward.

Hello all! I’m excited to play my first game here. Let me catch up I was not aware the game had started already. Oh and for those that will ask about my experience or where I come from - I typically play on a small rather newish forum called Mafia451. I think I’ve played north of 100 games there (if you go to it you’ll quickly realize I play basically every game). So that’s a bit of background about me. I don’t recognize anybody from the playerlist so this will be fun, though I did read a few games around the site just to get a feel for the meta here.

were you in that Josh game over on 451 about a year back?

@Andres - I just checked, yes, we were both in Josh Mafia about a year and a half ago together on Maf451. We had a fire scum team, but I think I'm the only one who did anything, and I fake claimed Jester as scum over there, and then JJH got a triple chain venge shot on all the remaining scum.

That was one of the games I was a Scum Dreaming God. I always lose when I roll that roll.

Hahaha I don’t remember this at all. I might go check. Sounds like we had a good time.

https://forum.mafia451.com/t/josh-mafia-day-4/2086

[Flavor Leaf]

@Gamma - I found the 2 times I showed up on Bans/Restrictions. One was when I just started for replacing out of games, then signing up to new ones when I just started to give me a 3 game limit, the second one was for finding a loop hole regarding Trust Tells. Oh damn, I didn't even remember that because I quit at the same time for months, so didn't know it happened until I had already returned.

[Flavor Leaf]

@Gamma - I found the 2 times I showed up on Bans/Restrictions. One was when I just started for replacing out of games, then signing up to new ones when I just started to give me a 3 game limit, the second one was for finding a loop hole regarding Trust Tells. Oh damn, I didn't even remember that because I quit at the same time for months, so didn't know it happened until I had already returned.

it was just for joining new games for 2 weeks. That's crazy, I do not remember that. over 5 years ago.

[Flavor Leaf]

i like you two talking, keep that up. I am noting Taylor's potential discredit of Dk's town read on me, which simultaneously can discredit both Dk slot and my slot.

I'm starting to want to Vig Taylor.

i think thats a good sign. im not you FL, i dont do that discrediting of townreads thing

that's just a general solid scum play move. Only hurting yourself if ya don't.

[Flavor Leaf]

VOTE: jackson

WHY WOULD YOU HAMMER

[Flavor Leaf]

VOTE: jackson

WHY WOULD YOU HAMMER

[Flavor Leaf]

jackson is town. i certainly am not going out of my way to defend them. but we should not elim jackson imo

this post gives me mixed signals.

[Flavor Leaf]

Nah, I'm trolling. I'd have been happy if it was a hammer, even if JV flips town.

[Flavor Leaf]

If Jackson flips Traitor, this game is over.

[Flavor Leaf]

Sup fam, it's ya uboi JacksonVirgo ready to spice this game up with an epic policy vote.

VOTE: shellyc

I'm informed that there's scum within Shelly, DKKoba and Infinity. Probably should out that rn

sounds fake and scummy considering whos in that set of 3

:c

Fine, it's not true

Lowkey just wanted to see how shelly reacted, but it's goners now

I'm informed that there's scum within Shelly, DKKoba and Infinity. Probably should out that rn

I'm informed that there's scum

I'm informed

I was fake-claiming to be an Informed [redacted] to gauge reactions. Also getting at shelly by saying fake-claim = bad.

I do it all the time on my home-site so much that my claim is never actually believed ever anymore lmfaoooo

Sup fam, it's ya uboi JacksonVirgo ready to spice this game up with an epic policy vote.

VOTE: shellyc

policy vote = bad
fakeclaim = bad

andres/jackson/koba gg

Mixture of all this make me feel Jackson, Shelly, Koba, possibly Jackson as traitor.

I think there's more than enough to not call it a tinfoil. I am going down a bad tunnel, though, I'm gonna take a break.

[Flavor Leaf]

oh no, Gamma is Shelly slot. That makes it worse because Gamma was protecting DkKoba. haha

[Flavor Leaf]

I'm informed that there's scum within Shelly, DKKoba and Infinity. Probably should out that rn

sounds fake and scummy considering whos in that set of 3

Inclined to think Dk might have a point here even after it was walked back
It read like trying to push the game towards looking as those players super-early

I'm informed that there's scum within Shelly, DKKoba and Infinity. Probably should out that rn

I'm informed that there's scum

I'm informed

When's the last time you checked the normal role list, pal? Informed Townie/Informed Mafia is a thing now.

Don't like Gamma's response now to DGB's post with the idea of a Shelly, DkK, Jackson possibility.

[Flavor Leaf]

Mixture of all this make me feel Jackson, Shelly, Koba, possibly Jackson as traitor.

I think there's more than enough to not call it a tinfoil. I am going down a bad tunnel, though, I'm gonna take a break.

If you're trying to call the scumteam on d1, it's always a tinfoil.

I disagree, while I am grouping, I'm not trying to call scumteam on D1, I'm looking into traitor possibility, which in that case wouldn't count as a calling the scum team day 1 moreso than catching scum out on Day 1 because of a traitor crumb

[Flavor Leaf]

We had a traitor meta a couple years ago, and I’m still scarred.

[Flavor Leaf]

Is that Fantastic Mr Fox? Great movie.

[Flavor Leaf]

Miller Meta > Traitor Meta. I like milllers, though.

[Flavor Leaf]

I'm informed that there's scum within Shelly, DKKoba and Infinity. Probably should out that rn

I'm informed that there's scum

I'm informed

I was fake-claiming to be an Informed [redacted] to gauge reactions. Also getting at shelly by saying fake-claim = bad.

I do it all the time on my home-site so much that my claim is never actually believed ever anymore lmfaoooo

What kind of playstyle is this even?!?!

Don't hate what you don't know. It works wonders when I'm confident that I can do them.

I’m trolling because I’m a 2-shot doctor

[Flavor Leaf]

VOTE: jackson

WHY WOULD YOU HAMMER

Wait is that actually hammer, ffs. I thought I only had one vote on me before FL? But Andres also says they were on me so idk.

My sarcastic tone does not come across on forum at all.

[Flavor Leaf]

UNVOTE:

No.

Sorry, but FL has definitely not shaken Math's scuminess just yet. FL is clearly a better player and needs to catch up before we just move on from this wagon.

Spicy

[Flavor Leaf]

I think VP’s town, and I think there’s scum pushing him as town.

I’m busy today, but I might show up late tonight

[Flavor Leaf]

I haven’t read too much since I was last here, but VP gave suspicion to my slot, so if VP is town, it benefits scum for VP to be in a higher town read position in the game because it can keep him at me, if that makes sense.

[Flavor Leaf]

Infinity is the one immediately standing out to me right now, and I liked Andres post at the top of this page

[Flavor Leaf]

I also tend to look at how people are positioning themselves rather than straight up who they are town reading or scum reading

[Flavor Leaf]

Okay, I caught up from where I came in last time until now.

There's something weird going in between Andres, Infinity, and VPB. I would bet on there being scum in there somewhere.

Least Likely to Most Likely:
VPB
Andres
Infinity

I sensed that Infinity play earlier, but maybe Andres set that up. I'm not sure. I might be underestimating Andres ability, and if so, I think he could manipulate incredibly well. Something about the way he's posting makes me feel that way, especially now that I look at his greeting towards me could have been a pocket attempt.

[Flavor Leaf]

I just get this weird sense of newbie yet experienced in Andres, and I played with him over a year ago, so I know he's decently capable, and I know his join date is deceiving, I just think there's a chance Andres is playing a solid scum game, picking up good gamestate control, if that makes sense.

Like when I look back at the way he greeted me, in conjunction to how he's been pushing, and the fact that I naturally scum read Infinity, I think Andres being scum would have helped the gamestate get to a position where Infinity would have been a strong wagon.

I was thinking of voting Infinity, which I believe would pick up at least 1 more vote, maybe more, so I can see that Infinity could have gained momentum.

[Flavor Leaf]

I keep being skeptical of Andres in a way that I can't really put my finger on.

this might be because they are scum who's doing well at keeping themselves townie, or not having any actual reasons for being scum.

[Flavor Leaf]

I just get this weird sense of newbie yet experienced in Andres, and I played with him over a year ago, so I know he's decently capable, and I know his join date is deceiving, I just think there's a chance Andres is playing a solid scum game, picking up good gamestate control, if that makes sense.

Like when I look back at the way he greeted me, in conjunction to how he's been pushing, and the fact that I naturally scum read Infinity, I think Andres being scum would have helped the gamestate get to a position where Infinity would have been a strong wagon.

I was thinking of voting Infinity, which I believe would pick up at least 1 more vote, maybe more, so I can see that Infinity could have gained momentum.

Can flavor do this as scum? Cause this is a town post and very relatable

stop pocket

[Flavor Leaf]

I'm not gonna stop commenting on things I see in the thread because you interpret them as pocketing.

i'm playing with you. Interesting take, though.

[Flavor Leaf]

viewtopic.php?p=10938746#p10938746

thing I say when people say things I like too much.

Started as Vorkuta's line, and he kept saying it to me, so it became a thing for us. I can't find the first Vorkuta-My line, though, but I found me saying it to Firebringer.

[Flavor Leaf]

What about Dkk?

[Flavor Leaf]

I haven’t interacted with Gera since replacing in, so I don’t have an opinion on that push atm

[Flavor Leaf]

The scum doesn't want to bus geranium.

Says you.

VOTE: Gera

Help me bus this, and let’s move on to day 2.

[Flavor Leaf]

Man, Infinity just piggybacking on everything this game. Like, I'm lean towning Marky as well, but the way you say it just looks like scum pocketing left and right, but would scum really be like that? And they call Kkoba too scummy to be scum, which is effectively placing a town read there.

Infinity, who do you see as scum?

[Flavor Leaf]

Gamma can you catch up and give your thoughts when possible, I’m really losing interest in this game.

"gamma, can you post and let me take credit for fueling your next string of posts."'

[Flavor Leaf]

I don't even think Gamma's behind. Nobody was here the time they were missing really except like a page. Infinity just further went into the narrative that current Gamma is outdated, which I believe is not true.

[Flavor Leaf]

I don't have scumreads atm, I have a PoE

another way to excuse yourself from blame if a townie from your POE flips.

[Flavor Leaf]

you wanna get something going.

VOTE: Infinity

I think you're posturing, and actively fueling fire for people to get a misfade for you.

[Flavor Leaf]

JV, gamma slot, VP, and mark are town.

this is what I'm talking about. You're pushing slots and piggybacking here, and it looks like gamestate manipulation to get those 4 slots to see the world from your "pov", which if you are scum, this is how you control games. You pushing that much faith looks fake to me, and looks like you're trying to create a squad to both a) take blame for a potential misfade, b) make sure they don't join in on voting you.

You positioned me in the slight townie position which allows you to keep me at ease, but able to flip on me in a moment's notice if I become an issue for you.

[Flavor Leaf]

I'm also seeing a possible DGB/DKK pairing, which could explain why DGB went on to Gera here, as that's a wagon that could gain steam, and I feel like Dkk is likely the scummiest, most likely to get momentum on them as either alignment coming up, so if DGB senses that too, and is partners with Dkk, Gera push is incredibly strong, especially because DGB couldn't stay on me due to if they are scum, them having to do a hell of a lot of work on Day 1 to fight because of circular reasoning.

a theory, though. If they are the scum team, that is what is happening right now.

[Flavor Leaf]

I'm literally just listing townreads and you're interpreting it to be an agenda wtf

isn't that how to play Mafia? Look for the agenda.

I could be wrong. If you are town, I don't think this reaction of your makes that much sense. I never implied like I thought I was 100% correct, I was simply stating a scenario I believe could be happening, as I did with DGB/Dkk.

It's too early for me to actually think 100% I could be correct, but I feel like I'm on a good path here. Even if I am wrong, this will open things up. I don't necessarily think I am wrong, though.

[Flavor Leaf]

I'm also seeing a possible DGB/DKK pairing

It's called

"I'm townreading DKK."

This is a possibility, sure.

[Flavor Leaf]

I'm literally just listing townreads and you're interpreting it to be an agenda wtf

Scum don't list town reads, they keep all their options open.

Their town reads are the players they're going to have to NK, so scum like to keep the town read pool small and nebulous.

I don't know how strong of a scum player Infinity is. The POE was rather high number still, and I don't see the lean towns as town reads, as he stated them in a manner which he could easily turn.

In that regard, since it's Day 1, it's also easy to flip your stronger town reads, but he's just actively pushing like there's 4 strong townies for him, and he also has stated he doesn't know how to get scum reads Day 1, and if he's able to convince himself that he has that many town reads, that doesn't add up for me. He should question his town reads in that case, which I don't think he does, because I think they are fake reads to begin with.

[Flavor Leaf]

I'm literally just listing townreads and you're interpreting it to be an agenda wtf

isn't that how to play Mafia? Look for the agenda.

I could be wrong. If you are town, I don't think this reaction of your makes that much sense. I never implied like I thought I was 100% correct, I was simply stating a scenario I believe could be happening, as I did with DGB/Dkk.

I think you developed a scenario that could make a lot of sense for scum!me, but are not really considering my words at face value (i.e. I have no motivation and a few strong townreads but nothing else).

I agree with this. Is that not a decent way to look for scum or cause meaningful discussion? I think my vote towards you has already helped move this game forward.

I disagree with the no motivation part. You being scum is the motivation, it's Day 1, so you just have to establish presence, which you are doing.

Yes, I see the world you can be town here, but I don't think it's any more likely than scum you at this point. And 50/50 is solid odds in Mafia.

[Flavor Leaf]

VOTE: Marky Mark

I am not low info. Trust me when I get a bee in my bonnet, I'll spam harder than DkKoba.

now THIS i have to see because im hard to beat except on my homesite

You lot really don't wanna force me to have to keep up with you guys activity wise because I will.

[Flavor Leaf]

@Infinity - How come you focused on the push towards you and ignored the Dkk/DGB pairing, which would effectively mean I think you town? Unless I just drew 3 scum into the thread from that push, which could be possible. The vote was meant to act as a lightning rod of such.

[Flavor Leaf]

I'm literally just listing townreads and you're interpreting it to be an agenda wtf

isn't that how to play Mafia? Look for the agenda.

I could be wrong. If you are town, I don't think this reaction of your makes that much sense. I never implied like I thought I was 100% correct, I was simply stating a scenario I believe could be happening, as I did with DGB/Dkk.

I think you developed a scenario that could make a lot of sense for scum!me, but are not really considering my words at face value (i.e. I have no motivation and a few strong townreads but nothing else).

I agree with this. Is that not a decent way to look for scum or cause meaningful discussion? I think my vote towards you has already helped move this game forward.

I disagree with the no motivation part. You being scum is the motivation, it's Day 1, so you just have to establish presence, which you are doing.

Yes, I see the world you can be town here, but I don't think it's any more likely than scum you at this point. And 50/50 is solid odds in Mafia.

No motivation = I'm not motivated to play this game atm. And yes, it makes sense you pressured me. I'm frustrated. Keep doing what you're doing I guess. I do think talking to gamma about reads will help my motivation/play a lot.

I actually think being not motivated to play the game easily can be scum orientated. I don't see that as AI.

Scum you wouldn't be frustrated from me going onto them, is what you're saying?

[Flavor Leaf]

Marky Mark could be smooth scum, smooth enough where I probably wouldn't vote them out Day 1.

Dkk-Marky could be Dkk scum making it look like they're doing something with MarkyMark, which distracts a townMarky.

Or ScumMarky could be playing with DkScum.

I don't think I see that as S/S anywhere. Could be T/T if I'm just off the mark.

I'm trying to find scum right now, so I might be seeing things that aren't there regarding the gamestate, but that's fine for Day 1, I feel.

PEdit:
Interesting Dkk is trying to stop the discussion on that now.

[Flavor Leaf]

I kind of want Marky to be scum here because his posts look so smooth if he is.

[Flavor Leaf]

{gerain, koba, DGB, andres, zdenek} is my PoE atm

Is this still your POE given you now claim to be light TRing DGB and Zedenek is being replaced ergo the slot is in limbo?

Pretty much. I didn't mention n_m, who I believe VP townreads for meta reasons, so I was trusting that. I do think he pretend to contribute a bit more as scum. To be more clear:

I doubt scum is here: {VP, JV, gamma, mark}
Not really feeling scum, but could be wrong: {n_m, taylor, DGB, flavor}
The rest: {andres, koba, zdenek, gerain}

you just said koba was too scummy to be scum.

[Flavor Leaf]

im not interested in interacting with u anymore

So that's twice in an evening that you've accused me of something, I've taken the time to respond to you and then you've just changed the subject.

imma call the wahmbulance

need the number? It's Whine-One-One.

[Flavor Leaf]

{gerain, koba, DGB, andres, zdenek} is my PoE atm

Is this still your POE given you now claim to be light TRing DGB and Zedenek is being replaced ergo the slot is in limbo?

Pretty much. I didn't mention n_m, who I believe VP townreads for meta reasons, so I was trusting that. I do think he pretend to contribute a bit more as scum. To be more clear:

I doubt scum is here: {VP, JV, gamma, mark}
Not really feeling scum, but could be wrong: {n_m, taylor, DGB, flavor}
The rest: {andres, koba, zdenek, gerain}

you just said koba was too scummy to be scum.

have u considered infintiy is just full of shit tho

no, i've accepted that as a fact.

the alignment is what I'm actively trying to consider.

[Flavor Leaf]

@Infinity - How come you focused on the push towards you and ignored the Dkk/DGB pairing, which would effectively mean I think you town? Unless I just drew 3 scum into the thread from that push, which could be possible. The vote was meant to act as a lightning rod of such.

I got frustrated when I saw you use what I thought was bad reasoning to accuse me. I didn't comment on DGB/dk because I don't pay much attention to pre-flip associatives. I did kind of expect more pushback on me with your SR though, instead you kinda felt like you had to justify your vote. Maybe I was expecting you to be more aggressive than you were though.

it's absolutely not bad reasoning, I feel it's rather strong reasoning, actually. Even if it is incorrect.

[Flavor Leaf]

I said koba is too scummy to be scum but really I just have no idea how to read them.

Convenient.

[Flavor Leaf]

I said koba is too scummy to be scum but really I just have no idea how to read them.

Convenient.

and before someone says anything, this is playful antagonizing tone.

[Flavor Leaf]

If you were a dayvig, who would you shoot, right now.

[Flavor Leaf]

is Mark widely town read...? this is the first I've heard of it besides a few town reads here and there. I thought most people were more null on the slot.

[Flavor Leaf]

I don't even know what to say to this - this is kinda like reverse pocketing I guess?!

If you are scum, I am forcing myself into your pocket so you have to be aware of me, so yes. Reverse pocketing is a good term.

[Flavor Leaf]

?!

If you are scum, I want it to be known that this is what I will consider the moment I caught you. The double punctuation.

[Flavor Leaf]

Some other thoughts

-1034 by Taylor asking what vote # the JV wagon was on feels like scum trying to look town (JV was nowhere near hammer so I'm not convinced she was legitimately worried that her vote could put him dangerously close)
-1094 where FL claims to be a 2-Shot doc -> I'm presuming you aren't actually claiming here but that it's some sort of in-joke?
-That page where JV talked us through his mental state inc his relationship with death-tunnels felt town, as many others have already said.

-I feel like FL is reading way too much into the fake informed claim, but NAI

Zdenek's contribution and others' reaction to it

Around page 28, I think that Taylor is scum telling us Math is town.

This is not a remotely new argument, which makes me question DKs assertion in 1157 that his tone comes off as independent, especially when it was an argument that DK herself made earlier:

weird bc ur sudden defense of math gives me scum vibes from you instead

DGB also TRing the slot after that post doesn't fill me with confidence, but that bit is a bit more circumstantial

I didn't realize it was fake until Taylor commented on it after I was pushing it.

But yeah, I looked through Marky Mark's ISO, and not once is there another double punctuation, so that must have really excited them.

If Marky is scum, I'll need a day or so to figure out a way to legitimately know to get them, and if they're town, I'd like to give them the chance because I feel they have high equity to catch a scum this game.

That is why I'm not pushing this further. If it wasn't Day 1, I might go deeper.

I'm gonna stick with the Finity.

[Flavor Leaf]

I still find it weird that you have andres in the POE as he's clearly been making effort to scrutinize things and come up with original thinking. Not impossible to do as scum I guess but certainly from the limited info we have right now is not someone I would want to gamble on losing as if he is town, it will be a big loss to us.

want this in my ISO.

[Flavor Leaf]

He ain’t smooth as scum?

[Flavor Leaf]

Nah, you have.

[Flavor Leaf]

Nah, because if I town read you, I’m gonna Vig you this time, because that’s when you’d actually be scum

[Flavor Leaf]

To be fair, I’ve put forth a rather solid reasoning for InfinityScum scenario, whether it’s agreed upon is the difference, so I don’t necessarily like that as an argument, and seems potentially antagonistic towards Taylor for potential gamestate reasons

[Flavor Leaf]

If they’re scum together, it’s a hatchet. He’s discrediting you, but he isn’t pushing you

[Flavor Leaf]

Nah, because if I town read you, I’m gonna Vig you this time, because that’s when you’d actually be scum

ok so you scumread me then?

No, i haven’t town read you quite yet, so

[Flavor Leaf]

Nicely put.

[Flavor Leaf]

VP Baltar

Marky Mark

T Swizzle
Andresvmb
Jackson

Gamma Emerald
Not Mafia
Geraintm
Zdenek
DrippingGoofBall
Dkkoba
Infinity
_______

None of my scum reads are that strong, so that bottom layer is kind of Neutral-Lean Scum territory.

[Flavor Leaf]

VP, Marky, and T Swizzle should all speak for themselves.

Andre is there because they hard town read me and pocketed me.

Jackson is there because the retraction to the info I can see coming from Town, and I liked their last string of posts.

[Flavor Leaf]

Don’t push my read lists as options.

Day 1 i always sprinkle some extra tasty fish bait on my hook.

I also don’t really think this game needs a fade right away, so there really aren’t options, just lines of discussion.

[Flavor Leaf]

And I’m clearly not interesting in an MIA wagon, so the 3 inactive season there aren’t where I want at all, but I don’t have a read on their slots one way or another yet. That will change.

[Flavor Leaf]

what did my 1385 have anything to do with that post?

[Flavor Leaf]

VP, Marky, and T Swizzle should all speak for themselves.

Andre is there because they hard town read me and pocketed me.

Jackson is there because the retraction to the info I can see coming from Town, and I liked their last string of posts.

I’m sorry, what? Point to where I stated I had a hard TR of your slot.

oh, quit playing, you know I'm you're biggest town read, duh

[Flavor Leaf]

i was about to call you out for ignoring it, so it's good you brought it up.

[Flavor Leaf]

VP, Marky, and T Swizzle should all speak for themselves.

Andre is there because they hard town read me and pocketed me.

Jackson is there because the retraction to the info I can see coming from Town, and I liked their last string of posts.

I’m sorry, what? Point to where I stated I had a hard TR of your slot.

oh, quit playing, you know I'm you're biggest town read, duh

Not even close. I don’t know where you’re getting this from.

don't be silly

[Flavor Leaf]

VP, Marky, and T Swizzle should all speak for themselves.

Andre is there because they hard town read me and pocketed me.

Jackson is there because the retraction to the info I can see coming from Town, and I liked their last string of posts.

I’m sorry, what? Point to where I stated I had a hard TR of your slot.

oh, quit playing, you know I'm you're biggest town read, duh

Not even close. I don’t know where you’re getting this from.

im in the same boat as andres. if townies start dropping like flies and FL is townleading, then its time for FL to die. but from what ive seen that can happen when FL is town too. i only know FLs scumgame by reputation, but i imagine that its similar.

This is how you get wrecked by ScumFlavor who would make a strong bus.

[Flavor Leaf]

it's also interesting Taylor said that while voting alongside me.

[Flavor Leaf]

it's also interesting Taylor said that while voting alongside me.

i mean i have you as a townread. i just know nothing about your scumgame except that its supposed to be good. so *shrug*

I actually wrote a scum guide that will help you catch scumFlavor because it goes into the scumFlavor mindset.

[Flavor Leaf]

what did my 1385 have anything to do with that post?

I’ll lay out what I’m saying in more detail - up until when I put my vote down for Infinity, they were my top SR. I have about a similar reads list to Tayl0r, except I have Koba higher and you lower. Marky Mark thought that you focusing so much on the potential for a traitor claim was NAI. I actually didn’t. It’s an easy way to generate content, seem paranoid, but not reveal too much about yourself. You also pushed hard on JV, who I think is likely Town now. You’re doing the same with Infinity. And they have all followed somewhat aggressive pushes from me, while also casting some shade onto my slot (saying that you think I’m capable of making a push that fits a particular game state or that sets me up well as Scum). If you were thinking about turning against me later in the game, after a Town flip of either JV or Infinity, this would be the way to do it.

Yes, but this only matters if Infinity/JV end up flipping, and I'm not seriously pushing Infinity as hard as you might be saying I am.

Infinity even noticed the lack of true pushing.

I just gave them the Third Degree Boon is all. And JV even pushed up higher in my town reads.

I also don't believe I stated a strong town read on you, not like me being your highest town read obvi, anyways.

[Flavor Leaf]

it's also interesting Taylor said that while voting alongside me.

i mean i have you as a townread. i just know nothing about your scumgame except that its supposed to be good. so *shrug*

I actually wrote a scum guide that will help you catch scumFlavor because it goes into the scumFlavor mindset.

link?

check the sig

[Flavor Leaf]

boardgames I came in with a chip on my shoulder because of the Vig claim, and I cast out a Giant 1-shot Net, and just happened to miss 1 scum who slyly avoided it.

The Giant Net is still a strong play, but I am not playing that style here.

I also actively change my town and scum game because I am a performer first.

[Flavor Leaf]

@Taylor - I wasn't in that game Day 1 either.

[Flavor Leaf]

it's because they're scum, but people don't wanna believe me.

[Flavor Leaf]

beeeeeeeeeeeeeetle juice

[Flavor Leaf]

I think Andres dropped a few pegs for me definitely because he took my him hard town reading me way too seriously.

@Taylor - Yeah, funny stuff

[Flavor Leaf]

Spoiler:

hi flavor give me a good reason not to yeet u bc im like 95% sure ur slot is scum

probably scum trying to dictate the gamestate here on first glance ^

I haven't read the game.

read my last few posts and guess.

right, you're probably scum too

Is there a chance scumJV would say that and add a scum member into that list? If we're living in that world, that's 2 caught scum.

Also, that's a possible traitor crumb

jackson is town. i certainly am not going out of my way to defend them. but we should not elim jackson imo

this post gives me mixed signals.

oh no, Gamma is Shelly slot. That makes it worse because Gamma was protecting DkKoba. haha

kinda wanna go back to my Koba/Gamma with JV traitor solve.

[Flavor Leaf]

It’s also annoying that they keep insisting that I have them as a top TR,

it just really touched me

[Flavor Leaf]

I wasn’t aware you said it.

I’m more calling out whoever it was that was saying that, not pushing you Gamma

[Flavor Leaf]

Like I know it says your name and all, and it’s technically about you, but the post itself from me wasn’t really about you at all.

I don’t care one way or another if you’re caught up nor do I think you’re not actually caught up, even if you say you weren’t, if that makes sense.

I very much believe you think you weren’t caught up, however, I think you actually didn’t miss that much, so when other people push the game like you haven’t been here, such as Infinity implying they don’t think they can do anything and maybe if Gamma comes and catches up they will, however, I don’t think you were behind enough for Infinity to react that way.

It’s not about you

[Flavor Leaf]

I wasn’t aware you said it.

I’m more calling out whoever it was that was saying that, not pushing you Gamma

I actually was aware you said that, but I thought you were saying you said it again for some reason.

But nah, that wasn’t about you. I believe it when you say it. I just think you think there’s more that you missed than you actually did, if that makes sense

[Flavor Leaf]

I think Andres dropped a few pegs for me definitely because he took my him hard town reading me way too seriously.

@Taylor - Yeah, funny stuff

Sure. Now that I’ve expressed some skepticism your way I dropped a few pegs?

Yeah, I don’t trust you hard town reading me

[Flavor Leaf]

VOTE: Dkk

Let’s go! Flash wagon.

[Flavor Leaf]

Yo I’m already veering on the side of I feel like I’m gonna get night killed, don’t give em more reason.

Supposed to claim that Day 3.

After Dkk flips red, All docs on me

[Flavor Leaf]

VOTE: Dkk

Let’s go! Flash wagon.

that's your 4th vote I think today?

A vote for Jackson, to spice things up
a vote on me, to bus me or something
a vote for inifinity, to get something going
a vote for DDKOba to start a flash wagon.

I see no good reasoning behind any of these votes.

if any of these do get lynched at the end of the day, I think Flavour Leaf's attempt to kickstart each of them is a bad look.

Then you didn’t read much.

You’ve played with me before, my vote does not equate to what I think is scum. If you check, every time I vote, I have made sure to analyze the situation thereof.

Jackson was to spice things up, i did. Look at his spot on my town reads
Infinity I questioned what people that was aggressive, but then I reanalyzed, and gave them discussion.
I don’t remember voting you.
Kkoba i came into this game scum reading, but people town read them, called them too scummy to be scum, and gamma said they were town. I voted because other people did, in conjunction to my last statement.

Votes are strong for reaction tests.

[Flavor Leaf]

Oh, nice, A50 filled a lurker slot!!!

[Flavor Leaf]

1609 makes me think koba voted mark in order to go "oh oops guess I couldn't get my top choice time to compromise on infinity"

To be fair, they’re getting flash wagon’d, so I’d say that makes sense if kkoba’s town too.

[Flavor Leaf]

Is Kkoba wagon just Jackson, Miltank, and myself?

[Flavor Leaf]

1609 makes me think koba voted mark in order to go "oh oops guess I couldn't get my top choice time to compromise on infinity"

To be fair, they’re getting flash wagon’d, so I’d say that makes sense if kkoba’s town too.

I was having trouble finding the scum or town motivation from their vote on mark, since they'd been townreading mark for doing essentially the same thing for most of the game. I found a possible scum motivation so

I brought this up like before i pushed you

[Flavor Leaf]

Good evening all,

I'm not gonna lie, I am currently 7 pints down, so take the following with a pinch of salt:

So my main concern atm is the three lurker slots (Zedenek now being replaced seems positive) that are being allowed to coast fairly easily. For those who are arguing against an elm on a low-activity player (eg TAykor, FL), I'd genuinely like to understand how you plan to deal with those slots going forward. I am open-minded on this but I think it's important that we have a coherent plan going forward.

In particular, I'm concerned/worried about DGB - they are clearly a competent player who is currently being allowed to coast and avoid scrutiny. Nobody else seems to be SRing them particularly, which makes me wonder what others are seeing in them that I am not.

I’m voting Kkoba, what low activity player are you implying I’m pushing?

Prior to Koba, I believe I was on Infinity.

[Flavor Leaf]

Oh, arguing against. I misread it.

[Flavor Leaf]

You can fade them later in the game, I just think it’s missed opportunity on Day 1. Missing Day 1 is nothing, missing multiple days is something

[Flavor Leaf]

@A50 - what do you think about Andres incessantly strong town read on my slot?

[Flavor Leaf]

Laughing your goatee off? I couldn’t figure it out

[Flavor Leaf]

It's hilarious my cake day is on the worst election day in modern american history.

Existential dread!??!? Have some fucking cake

2016, the president was announced on my cake day.

[Flavor Leaf]

It's hilarious my cake day is on the worst election day in modern american history.

Existential dread!??!? Have some fucking cake

2016, the president was announced on my cake day.

November 9th. Was a rough one.

I’m mia today, but I’ll try to squeak in when i can

[Flavor Leaf]

@A50 - you’re just scarred from the time I lurked out until Day 4, and hard cases you and your partner when you were coasting through the game

Catching up now

[Flavor Leaf]

DGB is making me uneasy with the Dkk wagon. It looks like Dkk is gonna end up being a compromise wagon, even after he softed.

This mixed in with DGB not actually posting much makes it seem like DGB wants it to be known that they oppose Dkk wagon, but wants it to go through

[Flavor Leaf]

I dunno where to vote, but I do like all 3 leading wagons. (Add DGB and you have my whole elim pool for today).

Infinity is admittedly the weakest of all 4 SRs (or should I call them PoE reads, as I don't have a "case" on any of them. I just town hunted and these are the remnants)

Ah, you see it too

[Flavor Leaf]

My bad, didn’t see.

[Flavor Leaf]

Im drinking tonight and playing osrs im gonna pop in later and give my drunk reads

I always do a lot of prep work, and get a lot of hype to push for my 99 range pure, then bail right before pushing through. It was rough having to create a new account with OSRS, and little by little. I only play like a week-2 weeks a year now, but you never really ever quit

[Flavor Leaf]

Had a 99 def/99 range/magic account as my main back in the day, so it’s just depressing having to try to build it up again, but i try 2 weeks a year

[Flavor Leaf]

Hmm.

You can have an unvote for OSRS.

UNVOTE: Dkk

At least until I figure out what I think is best for the day. I don’t think I’m leaning Dkk anymore. They claim first thing tomorrow 100%.

[Flavor Leaf]

Yeah, I can’t play it without membership at all, so if I go back, I gotta. I don’t think it’s time for me to get back to it right now, I’m doing a personal NaNoWriMo thing as is

[Flavor Leaf]

where you wanna vote?

[Flavor Leaf]

Infinity, are you a PR?

[Flavor Leaf]

because unvoting your slot right before making that comment indicates I'm not about to run over infinity again *sarcasm*

comments like those are why you have a decent chance of being the one ending up getting faded today.

[Flavor Leaf]

comments like those are why you have a decent chance of being the one ending up getting faded today.

[Flavor Leaf]

comments like those are why you have a decent chance of being the one ending up getting faded today.

[Flavor Leaf]

I’m probably gonna end up going Gera today, just because Dk and Infinity at least post.

I’m suspicious of DGB, I’d be willing to try and get momentum going there instead. ThTs half the reason I’m okay with Gera. If Gera flipped scum, i think I’d be okay with DGB town

[Flavor Leaf]

Tinfoil, maybe not so tinfoil:

Gera is messaging out to one of his buddies in that last post because a scum is bussing.

DGB/Gera?

[Flavor Leaf]

I’m gonna try not to fall down the DGB rabbit hole yet cuz i feel it comin

[Flavor Leaf]

(there is no way scum will let one of their own go today)

This looks like he’s trying to tell his partners to not let him go down today. Scum don’t have daytalk, right?

[Flavor Leaf]

Maybe it’s not DGB, and now that i look at it again, it doesn’t look like it has to be talking about partners bussing, it can just be a general statement to them. I was just semi tunneled and suspicious of DGB.

[Flavor Leaf]

I read the rules, unlike most players. And while I often forget, or second guess myself, it's always in the back of my mind that scum don't have daytalk, but there are momentary lapses in that knowledge.

I'm pretty sure it's been brought up multiple times that scum don't have daytalk recently.

[Flavor Leaf]

(there is no way scum will let one of their own go today)

This looks like he’s trying to tell his partners to not let him go down today. Scum don’t have daytalk, right?

in the post above FL knew scum dont have daytalk. why feign uncertainty here?

There was no uncertainty, we’ve established my tone doesn’t come across well on forum.

Try reading that sentence with that in mind, that’s how it was said

[Flavor Leaf]

Tinfoil, maybe not so tinfoil:

Gera is messaging out to one of his buddies in that last post because a scum is bussing.

DGB/Gera?

Geraint was pretty worried about bussing and optics in our scumgame together, so this might have merit as a general point. Don’t know how much it points to DGB .

I brought up my tunnel possibility a few posts later.

[Flavor Leaf]

(there is no way scum will let one of their own go today)

This looks like he’s trying to tell his partners to not let him go down today. Scum don’t have daytalk, right?

in the post above FL knew scum dont have daytalk. why feign uncertainty here?

Rhetorical question, most likely

Awesome. You got it.

[Flavor Leaf]

Id like FL to answer Taylor’s question

You were literally around and responded to it earlier. You should’ve already known the answer.

[Flavor Leaf]

I think I’m okay with Gera. Something wants me to go Infinity instead. I don’t like they ignored my PR question and then I disappeared.

I don’t like the way DGB was positioning themselves in relation to Dkk. It looks like buddy protection or white Knight, either way I think DGB is scum, and that’s what’s holding

Annoyingly, I am kinda busy until Monday. I’m with Emperor FlippyNips right now, and my birthday weekend is there so for some stuff planned out, and i have my NaNoWriMo, and I’m trying to full send my website, so I’m probably gonna have to VLA until Monday. I’ll try to be around still, but like, yeah, I’m gonna be busy.

[Flavor Leaf]

Consensus reads* in general

{taylor, JV, mark}
{flavor}
{gerain, n_m, A50}
{DGB, gamma, VP}

I'll ISO andres tomorrow and revisit koba later.

Quoting for quick reference.

Koba wasn't even on this list. I found that weird at the time.

I did too.

I just did a quick read of the first couple pages of the day, but I have to go. I'll try to do stuff before I sleep tonight.

[Flavor Leaf]

Just been looking through the votecounts from the end of D1

Geraint wagon was

Gamma Emerald

, DrippingGoofball, VP Baltar, Infinity 324, Tayl0r Swift, Almost50, Marky Mark

I would count FL on this too as he said in 2070 that he was ok with the elim and didnt give any preferred alternatives. I would also count JV as he was in the same situation as me ie preferred DK elim but was content to hammer geraint

Of the above, JacksonVirgo, Not_Mafia, Flavor Leaf, Marky Mark, Tayl0r Swift were on DK wagon at its peak ie they wanted DK as primary elim choice

This leaves

Gamma

, DGB, VP, Infinity, A50, FL who were first-choice geraint voters

Clearly, there's more to catching scum than reading votecounts, but I think it's a useful piece of the puzzle to be aware of. I mean, geraint was a low-info nullish slot, so I don't think the arguments used to justify votes on him were necessarily flawed, but I reckon choosing a null low-info slot as a first choice elim (rather than as a compromise, which later happened) is moderately opportunistic. In other words, I don't think everyone on this wagon were scum, but I can see scum getting on board to ensure it got pushed through as the primary choice

I would count me as both on and off it for the negative reasons only, if that makes sense.

[Flavor Leaf]

I just did a quick read because I wanted to see what was going on, and the thing that standed out most was Dkk getting targeted after saying going after Infinity.

That was scummy, especially considering Infinity said they thought DGB was claiming, I think it's completely fair to challenge that. I'm not saying that it means Infinity isn't a detective, I just think it's completely acceptable to assume, especially so quickly, that it is scummy, especially if someone looks at it wanting them to be scum.

So right now

Dkkoba
Taylor
DGB
Infinity

is probably where I'm going to spend some time looking at.

[Flavor Leaf]

Why are you pushing aside the fact you could be scum fake claiming? It's not unlikely enough from our perspectives because you could just be scum claiming an easy result, that isn't that powerful of an investigative so even if there is an investigative role, it isn't necessarily a counterclaim. You also specifically stated that you thought DGB had a guilty on you, so why did you just say the expectation should be we have 1 investigative PR?

[Flavor Leaf]

@Infinity - I don't want to get too bogged down in mechanics discussion but is your logic basically that there's usually only 1 investigative TPR therefore if nobody else is claiming it then it must be you?

Something like that, yeah. Basically, the expectation should be we have 1 investigative PR, or maybe multiple gated ones. Not saying I'm confirmed town, but the cases where I'm scum should be unlikely enough fypov that they get resolved during massclaim.

Well I'm town so

Oh

I'll take your word for it, the mod probably made a mistake.

This is pretty clearly claiming something

Depends when she retracts it. I’m confused what’s going on but scum wouldn’t fake a result on me here.

Idk, I thought it was pretty clear DGB wasn't retracting, what else was I supposed to wait for

I mean, you weren't really in yeet range yet. If I was an investigative role, you can bet I'd be reluctant to claim.

I wasn't going to vote you until I heard more, even if I believed the claim.

I mean

It looked like a guilty

What’s supposed to change if I wait?

I thought she was gunsmith and a claim would resolve it

I don't understand these together.

the specifically stating the 1 investigative PR mixed in with some other stuff you said don't look real, and the detective claim is super easy to claim, and your crumb looks like you looking for something that could look like a crumb, quite possibly exactly why you claimed Detective if you are scum.

[Flavor Leaf]

and DGB does NOT look townie.

[Flavor Leaf]

who in this game has a decent amount of experience playing with gamma (3+ games)?

I have the most experience in this game with Gamma. I was in one of his first games even.

[Flavor Leaf]

I feel like something is happening and scum is trying to get DGB town because I was obviously going to push them today.

Dgb’s flip on Dkk is also bad, and if Infinity is town, she outed a town PR.

Like, how is this seeming like town to anyone here?

VOTE: DGB

[Flavor Leaf]

I’m back to neutral with Infinity. I could see his play here as town or scum pretty equally right now.

[Flavor Leaf]

It feels like anything I say is being interpreted as unreasonable in this game. Multiple powerful investigatives in a mini normal or no powerful investigatives is really not the norm and I don’t know why people would think it is.

You specifically stated 1 earlier

[Flavor Leaf]

Basically, the expectation should be we have 1 investigative PR

[Flavor Leaf]

I’m neutral on Infinity because I’m at the “too scummy to be scum” point with them.

[Flavor Leaf]

too scummy to be scum is a stupid myth. are u their scum partner flavor?

You didn’t read my post well enough because I specifically went neutral. He could very well be scum.

[Flavor Leaf]

I’m neutral on Infinity because I’m at the “too scummy to be scum” point with them.

what do you think the odds are that both infinity and dgb are sucm?

Eh, low.

People seemed to think I said too scummy to be scum to town clear Infinity when it was really I was seeing everything they did as scummy but to the point where I could see them as town, if that makes sense. Enough of a possibility i didn’t want to hard push them.


DGB’s last line of questions are completely fluff and looks like they’re trying to act like they’re doing something and have me waste my time with answering them.

[Flavor Leaf]

Frankly, my mind has just been skipping over everything Dkk has been saying, and usually that's town indicative. It makes sense to me they would be getting pressure today too. The aggro is annoying, but I don't think it's scummy.

[Flavor Leaf]

Not Mafia has scum equity. I usually like their pop ins, but really they've only done naked votes here.

DGB pushed Gera a lot yesterday, defending Dkk. Dkk looked like they were going to be the fade yesterday, so I feel DGB actively wanted to pick a different wagon, and then the Gera one just took off.

[Flavor Leaf]

Frankly, my mind has just been skipping over everything Dkk has been saying, and usually that's town indicative. It makes sense to me they would be getting pressure today too. The aggro is annoying, but I don't think it's scummy.

why would i be getting pressure

I don't really feel like interacting with you right now, to be honest, especially because I think this is an incredibly obvious question because of how yesterday was, and your general posting style.

[Flavor Leaf]

Also, the people attacking koba's claim, it is very clear looking at their iso that they are being genuine about the info. Seems like a very pointless scum play if scum.

[Flavor Leaf]

Infinity and Kkoba were the other wagons from yesterday, and now they're the ones today. I think both of their alignments become super obvious as the game goes on, so it might be worth going elsewhere. They've also both claimed PR.

[Flavor Leaf]

Happy cake day FL

Thanks!

[Flavor Leaf]

Taylor/Marky have some scum equity after this Taylor-KONA debacle.

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well i dont think the claim makes koba town. i do think the claim means we wait a day to see if we can confirm koba's claim. i also dont see why the role has to be a town role. so maybe it doesnt change anything and its still a good elim

i dont think that they're a simple town mailman though.

Why in the bloody hell would they publicize a result then? Wouldn't they just wait till night and then ice Mark?

Yeah, so I didn't get a message last night, but I'm a town PR. I don't think there's any point holding this back now as it's obvious that if I was VT I would have CCed koba.

This makes sense actually as town Marky and town Dkk.

[Flavor Leaf]

Let’s kill DGB

[Flavor Leaf]

Any of the more experienced players know how common mafia mailmen are in normals? Seems unlikely to me on initial impressions

DK's role ought to be easy to confirm via future night actions so just seems v unlikely to be scum

I think I’ve seen it, but can’t remember where

[Flavor Leaf]

I’ve probably modded a game with a scum messenger/mailman

[Flavor Leaf]

Yeah, Jackson and Taylor drastically have gone down for me

[Flavor Leaf]

His role still has some use, especially if there’s like a voyeur in this game.

[Flavor Leaf]

Their role*

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I personally feel it is improbable that completely random events led to three PRs being outted

[Flavor Leaf]

I want to vote everyone and no one at the same time

I hate that I see Not Mafia as some sacred miltank who should be followed after they spout stuff like this. I tend to town read scum Not Mafia specifically, though.

[Flavor Leaf]

Jackson, Taylor, DGB probably have scum, maybe multiple in them. I don't really think DGB/Taylor are partners.

Jackson, Taylor, Not Mafia could be the team.

[Flavor Leaf]

One of Koba/Infinity could take one of the slots too, I just don't know which one. Both of them have townieness to them, but I easily can see both of them playing a trolly ish game like this as scum.

[Flavor Leaf]

Alternatively, maybe Koba just hit scumPR Marky Mark.

My reads are all over the place right now. I've been away for a few days, so I'm trying to figure out how I feel about things right now, so thinking out loud.

[Flavor Leaf]

flavor how did u reach infinity/me as even a potential team bc i actually was genuinely upset at them earlier and like i dont see how anyone could ever read us as a scumteam there

i feel it's extremely possible for scum to get genuinely frustrated with their partners. especially in no day talk situations.

[Flavor Leaf]

I am going to have to read your scum guide Flavor because everytime you post, I agree. And that concerns me because I'm paranoid.

I'm just town. Which is actually kind of annoying right now because it feels like everyone is leaning town, or afraid to try and discredit me, which means scum isn't trying to misfade me, they're trying to make it so I push incorrectly, and they can probably just kill me off. I've been scatterbrained lately, and I'm not fully confident in my reads this game. That can change at a moment's notice, but I keep changing my mind on who I think is scum.

[Flavor Leaf]

Infinity's last post makes me paranoid of Infinity-Jackson dynamics. It looks like Infinity is TMI'ing townJackson.

[Flavor Leaf]

I think we’ve been going in circles.

[Flavor Leaf]

taylor, dgb vs vp, Marky Mark

where is the scum adding pressure, and could it be multiple?

I will say I really can't see VP as scum, they've lined up with me multiple times in ways I haven't really felt as pocketing. I feel like it can look like pocketing, but I haven't felt it, which I understand if that's a weird concept, but I genuinely don't feel like they are scum.