Mini Normal 2170: Stuff I’m Listening To [Game Over]

[The Bulge]

what kind of benefit are you expecting

[The Bulge]

there are 3 gamedays of content to get a read from and a third of the living players are scum. is that really your reason for calling for a massclaim?

[The Bulge]

what happened to your pooky sr? or panzer?

[The Bulge]

I mean why do you need a whole massclaim so you can do your PoE if your convictions wrt yours scumreads seems fairly strong

[The Bulge]

also like

why do you expect anyone to comply with your request if your reasons are ~secret~ and your only given motive is for the whole town to divert to one player's PoE solve?

[The Bulge]

*defer to

[The Bulge]

panzer answer 2617

shea has skipped over a bunch of questions as well but it's ok I already know the answer to most of them

[The Bulge]

Shea, Bulge

do either of you actually expect to get the other eliminated today?

I don't see why not

[The Bulge]

gamma we're not done. what was your plan with the massclaim

[The Bulge]

because niether of you seem very interested in convincing any of us to look into your silly slapfight.

I tend to play with a mindset of "we're all reading the same thread". I don't always feel as confident persuading as I do trying to bait out analyzable behaviour. if I find something damning I may present that differently but usually I prefer to poke at things to develop my own reads and hope others catch on and see what Im seeing.

[The Bulge]

Post because I have to.
I have little to add at this point. Seems like the game is stagnant again.

you haven't said anything about me vs shea, even though you expressed interest in looking further into shea around daystart

[The Bulge]

hahahahahahahaha

[The Bulge]

ok so im thinking scum are mainly among those who believed the claim because i stand by what i say that was not IC play.

[The Bulge]

I also have a clear on Kasumeat so statistically today should be easy

[The Bulge]

I have no further results unless somebody has a failed vigshot

[The Bulge]

time for a reread

[The Bulge]

I'm definitely for massclaiming today, but gamma needs to explain himself first

[The Bulge]

I'm a loyal jailkeeper. targeted pooky n1 for reasons I can't recall because i crumbed panzer. outworld n2 to check the softclaim. kasu n3 should clear him because there was no reason to nk.

[The Bulge]

iirc supersaint is just a restricted vengeful? im not sure how easy non-explicitly-normal nomenclature is passed these days tho. i have a reason to believe the claim but I'll wait for pooky.

[The Bulge]

huh

[The Bulge]

well that's pretty lame

[The Bulge]

caught up. still liking mc/gamma/and maybe a sleeper pick like panzer

actually here's a fun little thing: vig is obviously currently trying to decide between nm and panzer if there is one. i think nm would be a missed shot.

this was me trying to coordinate a vig shot on my target which would kill if scum or clear if town. apparently something changed between here and eod or else I mixed up the long P names

[The Bulge]

get your vote fucking off everyone is online

[The Bulge]

outworld move your vote this is mylo

[The Bulge]

I also have a clear on Kasumeat so statistically today should be easy

I have no further results unless somebody has a failed vigshot

did you not read this? before the massclaim?

[The Bulge]

clearly not because everyone was still fucking asking about who blocked the nk because nobody in this game reads more than one post at a time

[The Bulge]

ninjad and newpaged

[The Bulge]

so I no-killed to clear kasumeat?

[The Bulge]

that's the plan going into mylo with a full fucking team???

[The Bulge]

and like after pushing outworld as scum all day yesterday lmfao

are you following your own push on me?
VOTE: tsq

[The Bulge]

I haven't reread yet but im pretty sure nm is the remaining town.

[The Bulge]

isnt 7 and 8 the same thing

as if toggling evens/odds is the only benefit of killing a townie?

[The Bulge]

scum pt in shambles after their ez push for the win turns out to be the last town pr

[The Bulge]

actually kasu could be pr but I don't think he has to claim unless he has any kind of results to share

[The Bulge]

I haven't reread yet but im pretty sure nm is the remaining town.

fuck i forgot we were 8 ugh

[The Bulge]

gamma explain yourself in next post.

[The Bulge]

I thought he'd be the nk and I was right? lol

[The Bulge]

isnt 7 and 8 the same thing

not only is that true, he slipped that he knew that already.

I'm a loyal jailkeeper. targeted pooky n1 for reasons I can't recall because i crumbed panzer. outworld n2 to check the softclaim. kasu n3 should clear him because there was no reason to nk.

...what?

[The Bulge]

shea your push on me is so obviously agenda-based at this point. you're veering all over the place and hardly making sense.

[The Bulge]

my role is the only reason noraa's makes any sense at all in this setup

[The Bulge]

my action will fail if I target scum, but I won't be informed. n2 i wanted to see if outworld's claim would come with results (I said as much in-thread sod3). if he claimed a n2 result i would know he was scum since he would have been blocked if town.

[The Bulge]

my role is the only reason noraa's makes any sense at all in this setup

I wonder if it's just pooky and shea in the scum pt rn panicking about how they jumped the gun and ignored this fact and don't know where to pivot the push from here, or if the third partner is lurking there too

[The Bulge]

with that vt claim i should be mechanically cleared. hop the fuck off

[The Bulge]

lmao sorry i was using nk to mean no kill

[The Bulge]

I'm only certain in sheascum until I reread and I have been townreading you most of the game. but blitzo/gamma scum would be ballsy (not that I'm at all discounting the possibility of that team) and the gamestate right now fmpov is not looking good for you either

[The Bulge]

like I said I don't remember why I switched my target, but I know I was hoping for a vig. the only night i used my ability specifically to protect was last night.

[The Bulge]

talk to me about your fakeclaim

[The Bulge]

how ragey was shea in convincing you to retract it

[The Bulge]

oh it is pooky lol

[The Bulge]

ok. someone explain to me how the fuck a setup of 2 vanilla neighbours, a neopolitan and a fucking CHECKER makes sense.

[The Bulge]

oh you meant your claim haha sorry

I looked back and found your 915 which looked like a crumb to me

[The Bulge]

listing 1st vote, 2nd vote etc like that is pretty striking with an even/odd wagoner-affecting claim

[The Bulge]

I mean in your formatting specifically.

I dont think it's all that insane of a role. for normals sure but my site meta knowledge is years antiquated esp when it comes to normals. anyway not super important

[The Bulge]

who do you think is scum?

[The Bulge]

I just realised this should be a much easier solve for whichever 2 of the 5 uncleared are town. they only have to find each other.

[The Bulge]

that's a pretty abyssmal solve :/

[The Bulge]

ok. someone explain to me how the fuck a setup of 2 vanilla neighbours, a neopolitan and a fucking CHECKER makes sense.

[The Bulge]

shea, you, and a scum neighbour is what I'm thinking.

[The Bulge]

I maybe shouldn't keep leaving nm out of that equation tho. like i said i need to reread without the bias of overworldscum in mind.

[The Bulge]

ok. someone explain to me how the fuck a setup of 2 vanilla neighbours, a neopolitan and a fucking CHECKER makes sense.

why does this setup make more sense to you than any other solve? if this is a PoE solve you're giving me this possibility seems like it should be one of the first to eliminate from the pool

[The Bulge]

if this is a Process of Elimination solve you're giving me, then it seems to me that you should have eliminated kasu and me from that process early on, given that our claimed town-team makes absolutely zero sense without my role.

edited for clarity

[The Bulge]

i was reading from the op so i forgot about the day 4 ic

which, if anything, makes that townspread without the jk even more ridiculous.

[The Bulge]

why would i have protected outworld last night? did you miss the part where i treated him like confirmed scum until the mod confirmed him?

[The Bulge]

somebody please pass pooky the straws

[The Bulge]

uh yes?

[The Bulge]

why are you asking me that? i didnt pick outworld because i was sure he was scum. as for why the mafia didnt shoot there, i have no idea. I didn't pick either neighbour because neither of them are anywhere near universally townread. if both are town scum may want to keep pushing at a scum neighbour theory. if one is scum then they would obviously not want to kill off the neighbour they're snowing.

[The Bulge]

actually outworld being kept alive was almost definitely an attempt to make me look even worse today

[The Bulge]

if panzer were still here he'd have the perfect gif for how pooky just tapped in for shea after shea realized he could no longer push me in good faith

[The Bulge]

are you slipping that both neighbours are town?

[The Bulge]

because your theory relies on scum being smart enough to slide thru to d4 without losing a member but idiotic enough to go for an unwinnable endgame against an IC/2Neighbors/____ by targetting Katsu of all people.

its not a theory lol. i protected kasu and nobody is dead. those are facts.

[The Bulge]

/____

i thought the setup was perfectly balanced without my role? now scum knows another pr existed the whole time?

[The Bulge]

are you slipping that both neighbours are town?

the neighbors are town-reading each other and high-influence slots - you really think scum doesn't shoot there and shoots Katsu of all people?

I FUCKING KNOW WHERE SCUM SHOT BECAUSE MY DETAINEE DIDNT DIE HOLY SHIT

[The Bulge]

its not a theory lol. i protected kasu and nobody is dead. those are facts.

protective claims mean nothing at MyLo - you win the game at 7 or 8 the same way.

it doesnt matter if you believe my claim or not. your line of questioning here makes no sense because you keep giving me hypotheticals that ignore my claim and are 100% unanswerable from my pov

[The Bulge]

if panzer were still here he'd have the perfect gif for how pooky just tapped in for shea after shea realized he could no longer push me in good faith

[The Bulge]

I FUCKING KNOW WHERE SCUM SHOT BECAUSE MY DETAINEE DIDNT DIE HOLY SHIT

Your no-kill into protective claim gambit at MyLo would work a lot better if you claimed a believable prot target like Outworld ER but you decided to go with Chicken Katsu instead cuz you're worried your scumbuddy would get POE'd and then you'd have to answer awkward questions tomm like "why are you alive"

regardless of your alignment you need to read the fucking game if you think outworld would be a believable target for me to fakeclaim.

[The Bulge]

/____

i thought the setup was perfectly balanced without my role? now scum knows another pr existed the whole time?

here's a theory based on a couple recent pookyslips. scum suspected there was some sort of protective role in addition to the claims and knew outworld would be their obvious target. the only person who wouldnt protect him is me, and they probably also thought i was vt from my reckless play this game, making it safe to assume outworld would be protected 100%. maybe they even thought kasu was the doc

[The Bulge]

dhdejsjnssnnmmwaqasssaaalqqq

[The Bulge]

loyal modifier means i only work on town. the keysmash was @2887

[The Bulge]

Shea's push onto Bulge is interesting. I'm not sure if I'm entirely behind the logic there but I think it is a town-motivated push. I'm having trouble expressing exactly why I feel this way, however. I'll come back to it when I feel I can (and it will also give some time for this interaction to develop)

you should come back to this now

anyone who still believes the ic claim.....i don't know what to tell you.

It's not just about believing the claim. I think it's sketchy as hell. And I agree 1000% with Shea's 2557. But from a pure game theory point you have to be so fucking certain that Blitzo is scum here to yeet him because of how incredibly bad it is if the claim is legit. Not to mention Shea's points about it being a very strange spot for scum!OW to make a claim that 100% gets yeeted tomorrow if it's fake.

yea my posting probably makes more sense if you keep in mind I'm considering the odds of outworld's claim being true to be an absolute 0%.

[The Bulge]

idk where the first quote came from ignore that. but like come on i called him claimed scum all fucking day why would i protect that

[The Bulge]

ok but why would you elim Outworld yesterday when you can just wait until today and know for sure?

not fucking doing this rn

[The Bulge]

gamma explain yourself in next post.

Alright
So I had an inkling we had one more town PR in the setup, but I also felt like even with what I felt might fit the town could feel underpowered. I also thought scum might have a tracker based on Noraa’s flip and UG being NKed N2. This was also the one role I felt like OWER could be as scum that would merit the next-day IC claim (or another investigation role but the speculation leaned to tracker with Noraa’s flip). What I wanted to do was have the real PR claim and then try to suggest town might be underpowered still to bait a PR claim from scum, hopefully trying to true claim the role I suspected they had, and I could slam them with my setup speculation. Blitzo can back me up on this.
Now that I have seen Bulge’s claim, I’m less convinced about my speculation. I could still be right, but Bulge’s role literally perfectly explains the existence of Noraa’s role by itself as a potential town confirmation, so there’s less reason to think Noraa’s role existed to be a false tracker positive.

I think this effectively addresses the eccentricities of my desire to massclaim D3.

this is fair and i think gamma is town atm

[The Bulge]

I'll get to this later tn, I just realized i had that open in a tab and never submitted.

[The Bulge]

worstyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

ya im town. kasu should also be town unless scum no-killed which is a rather silly theory.

[The Bulge]

is it silly?

Why would scum target Kasu N3 and not the person who was claiming IC?

this is why I didn't believe your LJK claim at first, I'm still not sure I do.

this in no way answers "why would they no-kill". you can keep speculating about why they didnt target you but the indisputable fact is that they did not. It's becoming more and more annoying every time you bring up that dumbass question without making an ounce of effort to simply use the facts and draw conclusions from it yourself. what you're doing is pointless noise.

[The Bulge]

i know there's a good chunk of recent posts ive largely ignored but I'd like to finish my read before getting into anything too heavy again today.

[The Bulge]

it is a fact that they did not target you.

[The Bulge]

because said kills might implicate one of the team

how would killing the claimed ic implicate anyone?

[The Bulge]

I am, however, not seeing any reason to target Kasu.

because like i already said all you are doing is distracting the thread parroting the same dumbass question without trying to do anything with the information you have. I gave a theory about why they did not target you, and I gave one for why kasu was targetted (they could have suspected him as a pr). both of which you ignored.

[The Bulge]

im not trying to argue against the no kill theory here, im trying to get it thru to outworld that nobody targeted him.

[The Bulge]

why is scum nokill any more silly a theory than usual?

where was the followup? what was the point? why not kill the ic?

[The Bulge]

im saying that's the only time i was ever talking about the no kill thing. my other posts, to put it bluntly, were simply telling our ic to stfu.

[The Bulge]

why is scum nokill any more silly a theory than usual?

where was the followup? what was the point? why not kill the ic?

i mean
no kill makes a tonne of sense if they're gambiting today

why are you being all subtle here lmao
obviously yes my claim could be that. and obviously im answering this question fmpov, which is what you were trying to understand in the first place.

[The Bulge]

im saying that's the only time i was ever talking about the no kill thing. my other posts, to put it bluntly, were simply telling our ic to stfu.

I don't believe this is accurate. Posts 2801-2803 sure read like you're at the very least being very disdainful to the idea that scum might NK and you've backed off of it since then as it became clear that most people don't buy that argument.

Like I'm still leaning town on your slot because of the mechanics here but I don't think you're being intellectually honest with this post.

Im not talking about posts that far back. yes ive talked about it before. but that's not what i was doing just now with outworld, which is how many people are representing it.

[The Bulge]

why is scum nokill any more silly a theory than usual?

where was the followup? what was the point? why not kill the ic?

i mean
no kill makes a tonne of sense if they're gambiting today

why are you being all subtle here lmao
obviously yes my claim could be that. and obviously im answering this question fmpov, which is what you were trying to understand in the first place.

i'm kinda surprised as either alignment you're playing hard this phase but just utterly not acknowledging the value of a scum gambit
i appreciate you're pushing your perspective but this feels disingenuous

what? you're clearly implying that my claim is the "gambit" today. I know my claim is true, so show me where this gambit I should be acknowledging is.

[The Bulge]

fuck me

[The Bulge]

I targeted Kasumeat. I thought they would kill there again, assuming I'd be on outworld, to frame it as my kill (flipping kasu to legitimize my clear). plus if there was no kill it would prove that at least one of those was a protect and not a no-kill, because what mod would allow two no-kills in a row with a no-elim in between. this would have solidified me and kasu as town.

[The Bulge]

here's a flowchart I was using to help think.

I target OutWorldER, scum kills OutWorldER -> no kill, I trueclaim palatable results
I target OutWorldER, scum kills Kasumeat -> setup for framing me of killing Kasumeat to try and validate my claim
I target OutWorldER, scum kills somebody else -> smaller limpool, I trueclaim palatable results
I target Kasumeat, scum kills OutWorldER -> worst case scenario. game-losing. almost guarantees my miselimination.
I target Kasumeat, scum kills Kasumeat -> no kill, I trueclaim controversial results [or fakeclaim palatable results first at risk of tanking own legitimacy?]. possibility of best case outcome but puts me in a very tricky spot.
I target Kasumeat, scum kills somebody else -> smaller limpool, I trueclaim controversial results

[The Bulge]

so uh yea. I sincerely hope town can listen to reason and understand why I thought protecting outworld would be a waste. otherwise I kinda threw with that gambit because I really had faith in my best case scneraio and I took this risk

[The Bulge]

but I mean the simple question is.....why in the fuck would I kill outworld lmao

[The Bulge]

I'm pretty sure it's just shea/pooky/worsty and both neighbours are clear. pretty sure but not confident. I had a table made up to track which pairings seemed least likely between the 5 unconfirmed but I didn't get that far in my overnight iso reads. I did read thru all of our dead/confirmed town isos and tracked their voting history. give me a minute to add post tags to my draft so it's at least semi-legible, and I'm hoping to continue along the same track for the rest of you 5 as well as finish my anti-associatives table. hold up

[The Bulge]

Spoiler: in case anyone else wants to try to make ends of this scratch

MURDERCAT

Panzerjager , PookyTheMagicalBear, The Bulge , Gamma Emerald, OutWorldER , Noraa , Not_Mafia [minimum 1 scum]

Noraa

Thestatusquo, UneducatedGuesser , Kasumeat , Panzerjager , OutWorldER , Blitzo

Panzerjager

OutWorldER , Gamma Emerald, Blitzo, Kasumeat , Not_Mafia [minimum 1 scum]

duppin

rvs The Bulge 15 tr Blitzo 162 tr OutWorldER 212 241 vote Gamma Emerald 241 tr The Bulge 552 fos Thestatusquo 554 562 vote Noraa 825

D1 top SRs: Noraa, Thestatusquo

UneducatedGuesser

rvs MURDERCAT 13 vote OutWorldER 165 tr MURDERCAT 310 vote Kasumeat 310 fos PookyTheMagicalBear 565 653 tr OutWorldER 1034 vote Gamma Emerald 1732 tr Thestatusquo 1744 fos Blitzo 2173 vote Noraa 2173

D1 top SRs: Kasumeat, PookyTheMagicalBear D2 top SRs: Gamma Emerald, Noraa

Kasumeat

rvs Gamma Emerald 17 rvs Blitzo 32 sr Blitzo 103 fos PookyTheMagicalBear 174 178 vote Thestatusquo 182 sr Gamma Emerald 487 tr Noraa 532 vote Gamma Emerald 605 fos Panzerjager 631 vote PookyTheMagicalBear 809 fos Thestatusquo 1043 vote Gamma Emerald 1689 sr Noraa 2149 vote Noraa 2178 vote Gamma Emerald 2296 tr OutWorldER 2335 sr Gamma Emerald 2339 sr PookyTheMagicalBear 2339 vote Gamma Emerald 2373 vote Panzerjager 2735

D1 top SRs: PookyTheMagicalBear, Thestatusquo D2 top SRs: Gamma Emerald, Noraa D3 top SRs: Gamma Emerald, Panzerjager D4 top SRs: ???

OutWorldER

rvs UneducatedGuesser 8 rvs Thestatusquo 12 vote Blitzo 64 fos Gamma Emerald 101 201 tr MURDERCAT 201 vote Gamma Emerald 207 fos Noraa 211 tr Thestatusquo 571 vote PookyTheMagicalBear 727 sr MURDERCAT 1265 vote MURDERCAT 1517 vote Noraa 1657 fos Gamma Emerald 2027 2061 vote Noraa 2290 vote PookyTheMagicalBear 2345 vote Panzerjager 2416 tr The Bulge 2494 fos Not_Mafia 2556 tr Gamma Emerald 2558 tr The Bulge 2753 vote The Bulge 2793 vote No Elim

D1 top SRs: Gamma Emerald, Noraa D2 top SRs: Noraa, Gamma Emerald D3 top SRs: Panzerjager, Not_Mafia D4 top SRs: ???

The Bulge

rvs MURDERCAT 28 fos OutWorldER 133 fos Kasumeat 318 vote Kasumeat 326 tr Blitzo 481 sr MURDERCAT 1229 fos Gamma Emerald 1230 1259 vote MURDERCAT 1260 tr Noraa 1261 sr Blitzo 1634 vote OutWorldER 1676 fos Thestatusquo 1718 vote Noraa 1796 fos Gamma Emerald 1956 vote Blitzo 2263 vote OutWorldER 2312 sr Thestatusquo 2313 fos Gamma Emerald 2409 fos Panzerjager 2409 tr Kasumeat 2593 sr Gamma Emerald 2606 2656 2657 tr Not_Mafia 2657 tr PookyTheMagicalBear 2657 vote Thestatusquo 2672 vote Thestatusquo 2806 tr Not_Mafia 2807 fos PookyTheMagicalBear 2822 2828 sr PookyTheMagicalBear 2835 tr Gamma Emerald 2945

D1 top SRs: MURDERCAT, Gamma Emerald D2 top SRs: OutWorldER, Blitzo D3 top SRs: OutWorldER, Thestatusquo D4 top SRs: PookyTheMagicalBear, Thestatusquo

	Thestatusquo	Gamma Emerald	Blitzo	Not_Mafia	PookyTheMagicalBear
Thestatusquo	X		36 first mention alt
Gamma Emerald		X
Blitzo			X
Not_Mafia				X
PookyTheMagicalBear					X

[The Bulge]

with a bonus table template along for the ride weee

[The Bulge]

what is there to work thru

We had 1 confirmed town IC

that IC is now dead.

How much more obvious does it have to get that we do not have a freaking protective?

you continue to ignore my alternatives every time you play the "has everyone in this game lost their freaking minds?!?!?" card.

[The Bulge]

I won't be back on until later tonight. please for the love of god keep your votes to yourselves.

[The Bulge]

i appreciate the effort and the formatting is fucking lovely but am a lot more interested in your thoughts/conclusions than in data

yea the night deadline hit before I could get as much work done as I wanted. today turned out to be unexpectedly busy around the house. believe me in my head this was gonna be the wall of all walls lmao because I know my ass [and thus, the entire game] is very much on the line today.

[The Bulge]

yea i wonder why you would kill the IC-town who has the strongest influence slot and doesn't believe your BS protective claim

What was he going to do. Leave the iC alive and let the IC push him today?

I won't believe that you are so tunneled that you don't realize the flaw in your logic. this is a scum shitpush. neither of these posts even explicitly imply scum motivation yet you act like it's clear as day. outworld not believing my claim and being alive is far worse for me as Town than if i'm scum, because we are in limlo. scum cannot lose the game here. I'm not saying that's why I didn't protect him, I already explained my night action choice. but your reasoning has no basis in reality.

[The Bulge]

you continue to ignore my alternatives every time you play the "has everyone in this game lost their freaking minds?!?!?" card.

I don't see a single valid reason for a town protective to not protect the IC in the game.

yesterday you argued it was because you suspected OutworldER was scum

you don't have that argument today.

I'm not restating my argument just because you keep blatantly ignoring it. I'll let you look for it yourself if you're so genuinely interested in scumhunting.

[The Bulge]

A scum RB doesn't make a ton of sense in this setup I think but its vaguely plausible, thats probably the only circumstance in which bulge is not scum right?

He says he protected kasu though...

Oh I'm stupid, I posted from the scene, didn't see the two pages of discussion.

Let me catch up.

oh man i super do not buy this lol

like with or without timestamps, each post in a vacuum, or as a whole, I don't see a good angle for either of you here

leaving the IC alive despite the IC not really townreading him adds like, a level of credibility to his claim

Does it?

and what the hell is this

[The Bulge]

I don't like the bulges target. Obviously I think the town is in a better position today if there's a conf town alive. His argument that scum wouldn't kill outworlder is null as soon as he makes it. It's wifom. This is the second time in two days he's used a WIFOM argument like "why would scum do X" well...for exactly the argument you're making right now.

lol what does using a wifom argument even mean. that's not even something people do it's something scum likes to slap on literally any speculative statement and say "they're using WIFOM!!!!!!!!!!!!" like how often do you actually see scum tank themselves mechanically or wtv just for the chance of winning points in some imaginary future argument? especially in this case with a full scumteam, this is a big fucking stretch. the fact you keep bringing up occam's razor as if anything about your stance on me isn't riddled with massive assumptions is laughable.

I don't like bulge's "fuck" post when he enters the thread. It seems like the post of someone who was gearing up to have this argument and wanted to fake an emotive tell. I've done the same thing myself as scum.

what is this shit? you don't like my fuck post? man I get you had to rethink your whole angle on me after I claimed and you couldn't in good conscience stay down the same path you had been laying and had to tap out for pooky yesterday, but now you've regrouped and are grasping at any hunk of shit you can throw at me and it is seriously not it.

I don't really like pookys absolute certainty that bulge is scum either. That doesn't scream like a town mindset to have (granted, it was the exact mindset bulge had on day 3 also re: outworlder.)

I don't like worsts wishy washyness either. He's saying things like "oh my brain hurts" but doesn't seem to be making an actual good faith effort to break it down.

you don't have to do this, I already decided I wouldn't be tracking associative tells past day 3.

So I'm gunna vote the bulge and if he's town he'll get piled and we lose and he can yell at me in the post game and if he doesn't one of him or me is scum and the town can decide that how they please. I don't care about using all our discussion. This day comes down to this always anyway.

VOTE: Bulge

this is maybe a townie mindset if you're in, say, a 3 or 5p limlo after a long hard game. but with a full scumteam left LOL absolutely not. the only way in hell this is a time and place for a 1v1 is for shea to maintain his trajectory on me and continuing pushing his teams wincon (ie, get rid of the guy who can block kills and confirm townies).

I sincerely hope you know that you are scumclaiming to me every time you do the 1v1 shit. like I'm hoping that that is a given to you in this plan.

[The Bulge]

Actually I am probably reading this backwards - whether or not Bulge is incentivised to shoot OutW is probably markedly less important than like who the hell is incentivised to shoot OutW when there's a town ungated protective out there?

I actually had a thought that maybe they came to similar conclusions as I did with my flowchart thing. my worst case scenario would be scum's best and vice versa. so they decided to take the same kind of gamble, that I would not protect the IC, and hope for their best case scenario, which is to make me lose as much credibility as possible.

[The Bulge]

I would like to take this time to remind everyone that

THE TOWN CHECKER, WHICH IS A ROLE CONFIRMED TO BE IN THE SETUP, MAKES LITERALLY ZERO SENSE IN THIS SETUP WITHOUT MY ROLE

.

[The Bulge]

like when i'm saying I'm conftown I'm not just talking from my pov

i'm hoping the remaining town can see through the obvious scum agenda to yeet me

at all fucking costs

which shouldnt be asking much if they would take a single glance at what we know about the setup thus far.

[The Bulge]

the fact you keep bringing up occam's razor as if anything about your stance on me isn't riddled with massive assumptions is laughable.

let's talk about this some more.


Shea keeps bringing up occam's razor as if his me-scum theory doesn't hypothesize that I have been one-man-show scumtheatring it up since the start of day 3, wasting all of my faction's actions on the stupidest fucking unnecessary wifomy bullshit multi-phase huge-target-on-my-back "play" that gives scum-me ZERO clout, credit, or credibility. all of that after 3 miselims in a row and 3 dead prs? get the fuck outta here you don't believe any of that for a fucking second.

Pooky acts like me being scum should be the most obvious thing in the world, when anyone reading the game can clearly tell this is an extremely complicated and nuanced situation (or else guess what? I would have been dead already if it's so cut-and-dry). he has stopped dead in his tracks on any other lead he's been following this whole game. Is that something a townie does when HALF OF THE OTHER LIVING PLAYERS ARE SCUM, or something scum does when they 1)need one more miselim to win, 2)there is a player who has put a huge target on their own back, 3)and so far this game they have been successful at manipulating the town thru three miselims in a row?

[The Bulge]

I really really really really need townies to read that post.

[The Bulge]

I would like to take this time to remind everyone that

THE TOWN CHECKER, WHICH IS A ROLE CONFIRMED TO BE IN THE SETUP, MAKES LITERALLY ZERO SENSE IN THIS SETUP WITHOUT MY ROLE

.

I would also like to remind any doubters that I hardcrumbed directly before the massclaim in a way that would be impossible to back out of.

[The Bulge]

I also have a clear on Kasumeat so statistically today should be easy

I have no further results unless somebody has a failed vigshot

[The Bulge]

pooky's scumgame is sowing doubt and confusion.

[The Bulge]

?

[The Bulge]

I said it made no sense for the scum to nightkill kasu - so I did not expect your claim to be true. I expected you to have no-killed to set up the prot claim.

Can you explain how protecting Kasu again makes any sense for addressing this theory of mine?

I thought your theory was that scum no-killed yesterday? how could I have done that two nights in a row with a no-elim in between without ending the game in a stalemate?

if you and outworld and everyone else are saying the protective has to be 100% on the ic.....where do you think scum is going to consider not shooting? obviously they went a layer deeper in their wifom than I did.

[The Bulge]

It really is not indisputable fact. I can think of multiple reasons scum would no-kill, such as wanting to gambit a protective claim during MeLo to try and secure the win today, or not seeing good targets for a kill because said kills might implicate one of the team

I am, however, not seeing any reason to target Kasu.

This is why you killed outworld - you can't afford the high-influence IC slot not believing your fake-claim.

There is literally 0 incentive for a Town-JK to not protect the Town-IC. Hence we do not have a Town-JK

how are you still outright ignoring the fact that as town, I absolutely have even more incentive to not have a conftown hanging around who doesn't trust me and is willing to carelessly vote me in mylo/lylo situations?

[The Bulge]

again, not that that factored into my decision of not protecting outworld. it was 100% an attempt to outguess the nightkill.

[The Bulge]

but if outworld were still alive the game might have already been over and you know that. enough with the bad faith push, I'm tired.

[The Bulge]

ok so why would the scum kill outworld if he was going to "carelessly vote you in lylo" as you put it.

because the scumteam has a different pov of the game than i do? idk. or like I already posited, maybe they figured there was a good chance I would target kasu again. I do have a track record this game of uh ignoring the ic claim

[The Bulge]

it was 100% an attempt to outguess the nightkill.

a real town jailkeeper doesn't have any incentive to outguess the nightkill

you can keep saying that but other player are [hopefully] actually reading my posts and know exactly what my incentive was.

[The Bulge]

read my posts.

[The Bulge]

seems like that would be a pretty essential part of your job since your team has seen fit to assign you the sole task of "pissing off bulge every time he's in the thread" ever since the massclaim.

[The Bulge]

Let's say we're in a magical universe where you are actually a JK and for some unfathomable reason decided to play chicken with the bad guys and not protect our IC.

You send in the protect on Kasu

the Mafia for some inexplicable reason decide to kill Kasu of all people yet again.

We all wake up tomm 8 alive.

Tell me what you gained in this high stakes gamble.

pretty fucking close to hard proof that my claim and my clear are legit? am I wrong about 3 no-deaths in a row ending a game in stalemate? is that not still a thing? if it is then it would be hard proof that at least one of my kasu-results is legit. if not it's still massively unlikely scum would ever give up 2 kills in a row for an incredibly shaky gambit when there is a full team.

[The Bulge]

also I still don't know 100% for sure that scum

didn't

no kill n3. maybe kasu isn't clear after all. I do find that highly unlikely, at least enough that I am comfortable considering kasu 100% clear fmpov at least until we deal with the more openwolves in you and shea, or I get more info from night actions somehow. anyway if I got that double protect on kasu it would at the very least 1000000% clear him to me even if nobody else in the whole game believed me.

[The Bulge]

how is it hard proof?

Outworld suspects you of no-killing to set up a prot gambit, why wouldn't you nokill again? it's not like there's town investigative roles you have to worry about.

Game state doesnt change you can just punt it back.

when scum plays like that, good mods call games early. it's INSANE to me if anyone is reading your posts and thinking you have even a little bit of good faith to you here.

[The Bulge]

I'm done entertaining your obstinacy

[The Bulge]

when scum plays like that, good mods call games early.

hold on this sentence came out a lot less coherent lol. I mean if scum's plan is to just no kill and push nolims back and forth (which, especially with a full team, is fucking stupid, and literally nobody wants to play like that much less a group of 3 all willing to agree), a good mod will call the game a stalemate because those scumplayers ruined the spirit of the game.

[The Bulge]

I would never feel the urge to tell town pooky to fuck off.

[The Bulge]

Shea 100% scum
Pooky 100% scum
tw 80% scum
Blitzo 20% scum

I’ve been around there since the start of yesterday, nothing I’ve seen since the massclaim has really done much to rip my reads in any direction.

and you don't have anything to say about me vs them? like I'm pretty sure I've expressed that I feel like I'm out here drowning on my own. you don't feel like addressing any of my points at all? like part of this is a cry for assurance and some fucking sanity in the thread, but mostly I'm wondering why you're comfortable sitting on the sidelines right now if your team is on the cusp of losing.

[The Bulge]

Blitzo I feel like you checked out of this game day 3

[The Bulge]

I hadn't thought about that I guess because my ass has kinda been over a fire since then. but I can see how you would be burnt out at this stage in the game.

[The Bulge]

I will say I'm liking worsty for town a lot more today than when he first repped in (sorry if I was grumpy to you before<3)

[The Bulge]

I also have yet to hear a reason for kasu being town and am still rather cross about not having that answer. It's getting to the point where people are just saying he's town and then leaving it at that and it's driving me nuts.

He says he protected kasu though...

?

[The Bulge]

i'm pretty startled that bulge still hasn't crossvoted shea despite shea being mechscum fhpov and i'm pretty sure this is a guilty conscience indicator

wha

[The Bulge]

i'm pretty startled that bulge still hasn't crossvoted shea despite shea being mechscum fhpov and i'm pretty sure this is a guilty conscience indicator

wha

why haven't you voted back?

no reason. does it matter? why would I withhold my vote as scum?

[The Bulge]

How does not placing a vote equate to not believing you're scum? I can vote you whenever, or I could have voted you when you voted me, or I could have voted you the minute the thread unlocked. youve been confscum to me for days, insinuating that I've dropped that simply because i haven't typed out a vote is absurd.

[The Bulge]

My mindset today is "don't fuck up again and get yourself yeeted for the immediate loss". this narrative is weak as hell. I havent pushed anything hard because I've been too busy for any heavy work, and like I said my focus this game rn is convincing town that im with them.

[The Bulge]

why would you think my number 1 priority right now would be to get to step 1/3 in killing scum, rather than preventing step 1/1 in losing the game immediately?

[The Bulge]

that's weak as fuck. how often does scum just "forget" to crossvote back lmao

[The Bulge]

gamma, you believe in ro3 yea?

[The Bulge]

My mindset today is "don't fuck up again and get yourself yeeted for the immediate loss". this narrative is weak as hell.

And yet its true.

why would you think my number 1 priority right now would be to get to step 1/3 in killing scum, rather than preventing step 1/1 in losing the game immediately?

IDK why was your number one priority on day three trying to yeet the confirmable town role despite the fact that it was clearly the wrong play to do so?

between quotemarks is what my mindset is. not what I'm accusing you of positing. are you even following your own push?

as I've explained many times, I believed 100% that outworld's claim was a last-ditch effort, possibly a rogue decision, to self-preserve for an additional Night. this has always been my stance. I'm not interested in explaining myself again.

[The Bulge]

So you're saying you did it on purpose? If so, why?

just to see what other kinds of off-the-wall theories you and your buddies would dare test before admitting the obvious :^]
but no I wouldn't call it premeditated or anything. initially I hadn't voted you simply because I had not submitted a vote. it was after the worst mentioned it that it became a source of information.

that's weak as fuck. how often does scum just "forget" to crossvote back lmao

big caught for the wrong reasons energy in this post.

the only reason that's wrong here is yours for why I'm not voting you yet. the post you quoted should make it pretty obvious that it's bait.

[The Bulge]

shea can you convince gamma that he's on crazy pills

thanks i cant talk to him every word out of my mouth he seems to think is "blah blah blah blah scum blah scum blah scum"

scumptposting

[The Bulge]

[the whole big first part i guess]

I listed in 3091 every post of mine that states or implies (and I know my own intentions) a read on another player, as well as my voting record. I admit I don't divulge many reads but this is typical of my townplay.

There's a couple of other posts where he hints at possible belief in alignment, like when he drops this bizarre speculative gem:

caught up. still liking mc/gamma/and maybe a sleeper pick like panzer

actually here's a fun little thing: vig is obviously currently trying to decide between nm and panzer if there is one. i think nm would be a missed shot.

I've already explained this was a crumb/signal to any possible existing vigs that I would be targeting panzerjager.

[The Bulge]

Day 2

VOTE: noraa

Noraa is now being voted by the bulge despite the fact that one of the few things he said day 1 on alignment was that she was town and despite the fact that nothing had changed in her play at all since then.

lmao what is this. we have differing views of the game? cool. imo her play day 2 looked scummy.

Which like the interesting thing here was noraa WAS a town read. A pretty strong one I can only presume because he took the time to single her out as town day 1 when he did that for literally no one else except maybe in passing N_M. I think what happened here is that bulge saw noraa floundering and decided she was the best miselim target and was able to increase pressure on her and let her do herself in. I for one obviously bite into this critique again a little bit but then again I was scum reading her from the start. There was not a huge different from when bulge went out of his way to describe her as town and when he decided she was the person he should be voting. With this as his "case?" Maybe someone can clarify for me what's going on here but I simply don't get it.

It's nothing. It's fluff.

It's so nothing that when pressed on it he literally shrugged and said he wouldn't vote a town read for it. Maybe he was forgetting that voting a town read for it is exactly what he was doing?

apt description of the surrounding paragraph

Then noraa gets more votes and he parks his vote on blitzo and disappears for the rest of the day:

whatever I still trust it even if gamma has seemingly forgotten[?]

VOTE: blitzo

i'll go either way but don't want to leave noraa at e1 unattended

Again, nothing had changed. He had been pushing her all day and yet when she starts to get votes he jumps off and then yeets off into the sun.

being too busy to log on to mafia scum dot net is scum behaviour, got it

This happens after the claim and this is really important. He has several times yesterday and today made the argument that noraas role of a checker makes a lot of sense with his role in the game. He has gone as far as to make the claim that the checker in the setup implies that his role is real. If that's the case why didn't he do more to stop noraa from being yeeted? He can go either way? Really. Really? With your role which you claim makes a lot of sense with the checker that she is claiming? You have nothing further to say on the claim? You think this is the way a town player with a role claim that makes sense with their role reacts to someone being on the yeet block? To hell with that. I don't know if the bulge hadn't yet formulated his fake claim or if he just didn't think about this at the time or if he just decided that getting the easy mislim was more important but this is just 100% not the behavior of a town player with the role bulge has in this situation.

I didn't know anyone else's role. Noraa's role is useless without mine. Mine still has use. maybe there were even others who had synergy? maybe there were other power roles who had synergy with the checker? maybe one of them would step forward? regardless of any of that, it's nothing I was willing to expose myself over.

[The Bulge]

gamma, you believe in ro3 yea?

Yeah. It’s not a great tool but it’s one I try to find use for. Why?

what do you think of a world where 2 scummos are hurling shitbricks at their most established miselim target, while the other 1 scummo believes that target's claim and matches[/surpasses] his aggression with a bus on the other 2?

[The Bulge]

I'm not interested in picking at every little nitpick you've brought up, shea. I don't care to convince you of anything, my job is to convince blitzo and kasu and worsty to vote correctly or lose.

[The Bulge]

Day 2

VOTE: noraa

Noraa is now being voted by the bulge despite the fact that one of the few things he said day 1 on alignment was that she was town and despite the fact that nothing had changed in her play at all since then.

lmao what is this. we have differing views of the game? cool. imo her play day 2 looked scummy.

You had differing views with yourself. Try reading the post.

oh so my read changed as the game progressed cool. cool cool. very scum indicative

the differing views im talking about are that you presented as fact that "nothing had changed in her play at all since then." i disagree.

being too busy to log on to mafia scum dot net is scum behaviour, got it

You had enough time to come back and make this post and three others. You were clearly aware of the claim since you made several responses to people who were talking about it. Saying "I was busy lol" is not a response to my argument. My argument is about negligence, not activity. Again, try again.

no, you tried to shade me for "disappearing"

[The Bulge]

I'm not interested in picking at every little nitpick you've brought up, shea. I don't care to convince you of anything, my job is to convince blitzo and kasu and worsty to vote correctly or lose.

And yet you did try to nitpick the post and failed to respond to literally all of it.

lmao what im saying is don't expect a reply to everything. I've replied to every part of your posts that is worth replying. I feel no need to defend myself against random bullshit I know nobody else is going to buy hahahaha

[The Bulge]

gamma, you believe in ro3 yea?

Yeah. It’s not a great tool but it’s one I try to find use for. Why?

what do you think of a world where 2 scummos are hurling shitbricks at their most established miselim target, while the other 1 scummo believes that target's claim and matches[/surpasses] his aggression with a bus on the other 2?

Are you suggesting a team of Shea/me/??? (Pooky? Blitzo?)
The sense of that suggestion really rides on who your suggested third is in that worldview. Because I’ve already been adamant that thinking me and Blitzo are scum partners is just not proper.

gamma's too scared to type out his team all at once in the main thread hahahahahah he had to throw blitzo in the mix too even though it's obvious as fuck what im implying hahahahahaha

[The Bulge]

I read Shea as town for kinda similar reasons to why I weakly read Pooky as town I think? particularly I think him coming into today with absolutely no chill for Bulgey's claim is town indicative and I think his frustration with others not seeing it the same way has an indignant energy which is like, very hard to fake believably as scum.

Pooky is in a similar area with the way he grabbed me and shook me when I took Bulge's claim at face value but not quite as strong, just similar kinda gamestate position read.

how is anything about how these two scummos are playing difficult lmao? shea is digging for the most pointless shit because he feels entitled to this miselim because my play has been so horribly anti-town and suboptimal and he's frustrated that he has to put in work and tarnish his own play by throwing the dumbest fucking arguments of all time at me. pooky is literally just playing dumb and confusing the thread. i have literally never seen such openwolfing, especially with pooky. like what about their play is "believable"???? worsty are you the bad guy

[The Bulge]

I hate that this game has become a contest of willpower. it fucking sucks knowing that i could lose the game simply by not having the mental energy to defend myself for a day or two. I'm exhausted.

[The Bulge]

VOTE: tsq

[The Bulge]

bah. sorry shea, once i thought you were confscum it was no-holds-barred in calling your shit weak. before you voted me today i started to realize you could have been tunneled. fwiw i was scumreading pooky 100000x more than you for his play today but i thought you were conf

[The Bulge]

gg scum, thanks for hosting umlaut!

[The Bulge]

sorry for the aggression, outworld. I've been constantly frustrated since d3 and i let my emotions get the better of me this game and was probably not so pleasant.

[The Bulge]

In case anyone was wondering how this all happened, I'm BP. I feel bad for town how lucky we got with how Bulge's role interacted with me on N3.

the no kill made no sense at all but I never considered the possibility of scum accidentally shooting their traitor. I'm not too mad the game ended like this

[The Bulge]

I told no lies this game. I thought scum would expect me to be on the ic last night and shoot elsewhere, or (idk how i didnt think of this before) they had an rb on me

[The Bulge]

I see I need to not post before reading. But I am beyond upset about this. Bulge what the fuck was that play?

obviously I fucked up pretty embarrassingly with the outworld push, but I don't think I did anything super wrong in the last few phases. I'd accept it if you think not targeting the IC last night was a misplay but I stand by my decision for the reasons I gave. no hard feelings on my end, I hope you feel the same.

[The Bulge]

as frustrating as this game was I enjoyed myself. if i were the final miselim I'd probably be more salty rn but that's me.

[The Bulge]

I'm glad you feel the same as I had every faith you would. and yea getting too fancy and out-thinking myself happens a lot when i role TPR, plus I was full blown paranoia mode after the quick no elim and thought for sure i was about to be set up for the winning miselim.

[The Bulge]

So, in spirit, the Ascetic modifier was the true reason you couldn't be jailed, and the Loyalty modifier was just informing the Jailkeeper of that. I do appreciate how odd that combination must have looked to you from within the game, though.

this is super interesting design theory

[The Bulge]

I targeted Kasumeat. I thought they would kill there again, assuming I'd be on outworld, to frame it as my kill (flipping kasu to legitimize my clear). plus if there was no kill it would prove that at least one of those was a protect and not a no-kill, because what mod would allow two no-kills in a row with a no-elim in between. this would have solidified me and kasu as town.

Subject: Mini Normal 2170: The Dead

I hope so badly that they kill Kasu to setup bulge

heh

[The Bulge]

also Bulge don't look at the dead thread if you don't want to see me screaming at you for protecting Kasu N4 instead of me

the dead pt was actually a fun read, I was worried there would be a lot more angry "wtf is this bulgey fuck doing" in there