Mini Normal 2181 | College Basketball Players | Game Over

[borkjerfkin]

{Peta-Pizza-???}

I'm sitting here trying to pun 'personal pan pizza' with the playerlist and failing

[borkjerfkin]

that clearly doesn't fit

[borkjerfkin]

VOTE: syr

[borkjerfkin]

hint of a townread on ffery

[borkjerfkin]

waht

[borkjerfkin]

why

[borkjerfkin]

waht

post-traumatic game syndrome.

ok i get that and that was that game and this is this one

why'd you quote my syr vote in particular

[borkjerfkin]

I'm so goddamn desperate to get a red PM these days, I feel like I ought to go sign up for six more games to have a shot at one. Fakegod's antechamber fakeout is the closest I'm gonna get this year.

=/

[borkjerfkin]

did that ever get released

[borkjerfkin]

Why are you voting syr?

tonal from 39

[borkjerfkin]

hint of a townread on ffery

But like the shitty kind of advertising hint, where "Hint of Lime" means "a single lime was in this 500 gallon barrel of water at one point during storage" for a vitamin water brand.

is this a disagreeing w/ my read or just a HUMOR JOKE

[borkjerfkin]

You officially suck at reading me, Remilia.

maybe
but that doesn't sound like something someone who thinks i'm scum would say
and why would that make me scum?

[borkjerfkin]

Any port in a storm, eh?

I did not like this post

[borkjerfkin]

the tone in 123 and 126 especially read as scum being blasé.

not sure i grok what you mean by blasé here or why that's scummy

[borkjerfkin]

Any port in a storm, eh?

I did not like this post

What bothers you about it?

The implication was that vax was willing to move his vote to wherever (presumably to push an ML) when it seemed to me 125 just followed from 124

[borkjerfkin]

is how I read 126. It's so obviously sarcastic that it fells forced and as if it's trying to get people to join in "for the meme" as it were

i get what you're saying but i feel it's pretty innocuous

[borkjerfkin]

is how I read 126. It's so obviously sarcastic that it fells forced and as if it's trying to get people to join in "for the meme" as it were

i get what you're saying but i feel it's pretty innocuous

it is a page 7 read list

you were campaigning for votes, specifically mine, so I'm telling you why I'm not going there

[borkjerfkin]

only if they are actually all town

I considered 0 or 1 being scum. 0 seemed like the worst to do that with, but 1/3 being scum it also really seemed inadvisable and scary. After thinking on this for a bit, I still think this and really like how Elements has started here.

this seems like an arbitrary grouping of people (ffery/syr/cabd) unless you're inside the meta circle

[borkjerfkin]

thought it might not be from Elements' perspective.

I thought you were going for a "reputation" angle (like, this holds if you replace elements w/ someone like me instead), but w/ the latter half of what you said I don't think it becomes as relevant to harp on.

I think even without knowing them, and only seeing this game, this holds true, though.

This is really the crux: curious as to why you think this

[borkjerfkin]

I think even without knowing them, and only seeing this game, this holds true, though.

This is really the crux: curious as to why you think this

Three active, strong posters.

VOTE: borkjerfkin

Come on, this game isn't exactly filled w/ shlubs and I don't feel like they've been dominating the game in any real perceivable capacity that it's too dangerous to write them all off
in any event it's a really weird reason to vote me for asking about

[borkjerfkin]

That's very different than what I'm saying first off

what are you saying, then? and how is me not grokking it scummy?

hint of a townread on ffery.

normally I'd shrug and let your "not liking my body of work" lie for the moment but I'd love to hear what you didn't like about that post in particular

[borkjerfkin]

but I voted you before the question we're talking about you grokking.

I mean, you revoted me in the post, and I think that has a certain implication, no?

[borkjerfkin]

I thought it was very strange to go out of your way to give this read as opposed to finding ways to test it or holding off entirely.

i have no idea what to say to this. i don't agree

[borkjerfkin]

This is wrong, unless we are talking about two separate things. Please go back and review the timeline.

Dude can we back the fuck up a minute instead of you trying to misrep every fucking thing i say?

[borkjerfkin]

I'm trying to clarify your stances and I'm not really sure where I'm going wrong

What was 233 about

[borkjerfkin]

Don't think this line of questioning is productive any more. Can you both instead unpack your syr read because I'm no longer calm about it.

is this to me as well?

[borkjerfkin]

prove me wrong

wasn't my intent here. I'm going to take a break from this interaction.

@cabd: I didn't like Syr's opening (I didn't really read it as shitposting), it looked to me like an attempt to throw ffery off balance by initiating their "dance" in an aggressive way when nothing had really warranted that.

I haven't pursued it again because of the shitposting comment but since then he's pretty much not done anything

[borkjerfkin]

Pedit: Bork, if you think I haven't done anything and moved on from shitposting since then, you're not reading closely enough.

maybe i'm being uncharitable, but I'm seeing an ISO that is heavy on playful interactions and light on analysis. Why did you not like the Vax post in particular that you quoted?

[borkjerfkin]

Forget bridesmaid. I'm just here as the wedding caterer this time.

borkthoughts?

Forget bridesmaid. I'm just here as the wedding caterer this time.

borkthoughts?

Nah.

Really don't want to pick at either bork or prism rn.


More interested in hecticalt and vax homework for tonight's insomnia dose.

this is...not really what i expect from either of you after last game

[borkjerfkin]

engagement / attempt to wade through your initial wariness / pinging off each other

[borkjerfkin]

UNVOTE:

[borkjerfkin]

Another dumb chapter in the dumpster fire twenty book series that is our meta dances?

I feel like there is a happy medium between this game and Illicit Substances, no?

[borkjerfkin]

Is there anything about that read that you are still wondering about?

No, I have issues downstream of it and I'm trying to figure out whether or not it's going to be clarifying to keep it real on and am mostly coming up as no

[borkjerfkin]

The timing came because I didn't think you were genuinely trying to see my viewpoint, only to defeat it if you could. Assuming it was just for asking is natural but I didn't like the follow up

Everything you're coming up with now is what I was trying to get at then and now I'm left to wonder why you're clarifying it now and not then, especially since a lot of it is revisionist by definition in that it happened after 233

I mean you came in w/ all guns blazing after my request for clarification and my interpretation of the interaction was extremely colored by that, and I didn't like how you called me disingenuous in 253, especially considering you acknowledge you weren't forthcoming about 233 which what I was trying to get to.

[borkjerfkin]

I like pooky p17-20

[borkjerfkin]

their vote on vax is gross and exactly what i'd expect from scum

Neither you nor I liked Vax's entrance either, though you were willing to give them the benefit of the doubt for playstyle.

Vax's entrance is #121-#128. They had one more post in #149 to try a wagon vote on ffery. Elements voted them in #150.

This timeline makes me tilt my head. When you said "entrance" did you mean strictly the first 1/2 posts, only for the next 3/4 to be better?

vax ( i mean this in the nicest possible way) had a bit of a gross entrance and kinda reads like flipbait ... which elements then kinda tried to actualize in a way that i imagine scum would try to do if he is indeed town

like it's a lazy vote in an icky readslist and i like exactly none of it

disliked vax's posts through like 149 or so, but i have in my head from somewhere that vax's play kinda just looks like that, so although i didn't like it, i didn't read it as much ai tbh

If this were some other player than vax w/ their ISO up to 149 as it is, would you be scumreading elements for pushing them?

[borkjerfkin]

If this were some other player than vax w/ their ISO up to 149 as it is, would you be scumreading elements for pushing them?

sorry, i'm not super following the question

You said you didn't like Vax's posts through 149 but you don't consider it AI because it's vax and i am wondering why you're pushing elements for having essentially the same reaction as you did

[borkjerfkin]

i don't know how to answer better than 'it doesn't feel like it comes from town, but does feel like something that comes from scum'
i know that's not what you're looking for but that's the best answer i know how to give

like it just feels like classic 'scum popping in and taking an easy vote'. i dont' have a good reason for why it doesn't come from town so much as i think it overwhelmingly comes from scum

I don't really have an issue with this take, in a bubble, early game, but combined w/ the kind of earlier "I didn't like Vax's opening myself but I didn't think it was AI for Vax" the vote against Elements seems potentially chainsawy to me

Vax/skitter...are prob unaligned

(omitting the part about pooky/skitter since this isn't part of what I'm talking about) I guess I'm coming to the opposite conclusion here - this seems potentially S/S to me

[borkjerfkin]

Bork, you're scaring me.

In what way and why right this second? I'm curious as to where you expected me to go w/ 318

[borkjerfkin]

Bork, you're scaring me.

In what way and why right this second? I'm curious as to where you expected me to go w/ 318

my worry's been growing. I'm not getting any sense of being sorted by you.

I'm not sure how I should expect you to approach sorting me after the illicit game. :/

I'm probably going to deal w/ people differently every game. That's just my way. I had a limited townread of you after the first couple pages.
Was kind of waiting to see where you'd end up w/ cabd - I like syr a little better for pressing you on it a la 297.
Any further response to my 192?
Where are you at w/ Syr now?

I expected from the outset that you'd be wary after illicit - I felt like pondscum every time I had to interact w/ you guys that game and basically resort to emotional manipulation at every turn, and so much of my play was devoted to getting your slot on my side that it became really exhausting and my play in other areas suffered for it. so yeah, I expected this kind of post last night vs anything about outsourcing to someone else, I guess.

[borkjerfkin]

192 was my post? Assuming that's what you wanted to link, my impression of Vax's play at that point was that he wanted to rachet the highest votecounts and see what shook loose. What was your impression of Vax's play to that point?

I misspoke - was a you post responding to a me post. I expected you to have something to say about Cabd later. I didn't have an issue w/ Vax's play up until then.

[borkjerfkin]

I don't know if your implication was what Cabd meant by that post. But, I do think your implication resonates a little with Vax's play at that point. I am going to resist metaing shit, but I've seen that kind of play around wagons (and usually by town players) fairly often. For players who think votes = pressure, it's a tactic.

what do you think cabd meant by that post, then?

[borkjerfkin]

Bork, if you're holding back here, don't. you did what you had to do in that game and you did it well enough to keep me off balance

No, that's not what I meant. I expected you to come in w/ some sort of trepidation around me. Why do I appear to be holding back? again, what are you expecting that I'm not doing? Does "not sorting" mean I'm not interacting w/ you or what?

[borkjerfkin]

Yeah. I expected more interaction.

Well, on that front:

I don't really feel like 613 really answered any of the questions I had about your reads.

[borkjerfkin]

think he meant "how caught up are you"

[borkjerfkin]

I don't want to share either of those reads atm given what's happening in the thread. I want to study these waters, not muddy them.

I feel like on one hand you're telling me to be more direct w/ you and in the same breath you're playing extremely close to the chest yourself and I don't think that's particularly fair to me.

Also leaves me wondering what you would've said here had 616 and on not happened.

[borkjerfkin]

I always figured she would tell me to stop if it bothered her. Bork is just that I didn't get TvT vibes really from their thing with prism and prism comparatively seems townier.

Meant to bring this up earlier but what seems necessarily SvX about our interaction?

More specifically: do you think T!bork v S!prism is more likely than TVT? why?

[borkjerfkin]

Now, he's done it again, except with bork and ffery. Me too a bit, but the primary interaction was between ffery and bork.

I didn't read cabd's posts as an attempt to really even address me much less sway me

[borkjerfkin]

I'm leaning town on pooky - he's being what i would call "comfortably cheeky" but in a way that is simultaneously pretty content laden

I found mod pizza's spat w/ pooky kinda slimy at first just because FMPOV pooky wasn't instigating a damn thing but as of 754 i'm going to write it off

[borkjerfkin]

don't really like peta. I think the whole angle on Ben's trajectory on vax in 674/716 is pretty weak and overblown

[borkjerfkin]

Now, he's done it again, except with bork and ffery. Me too a bit, but the primary interaction was between ffery and bork.

I didn't read cabd's posts as an attempt to really even address me much less sway me

You don't read a vote on ffery while you're literally mid convo with her as an attempt to grab your attention and derail?

I mean obviously not at the time considering my lack of reaction to it
It more occurred to me that he voted ffery for something she did rather than the fact that she was talking to me

[borkjerfkin]

It's not about a meta trajectory so much as it is what he'd find challenging and enjoyable as scum in a player list like this one. from morphtalk, etc., this game hits just about all the markers he's talked about wanting in a scum game. The only limitations are the normal setup rules themselves.

I don't understand this take - you think scum cabd would just let you and me and syr run around all as town for the lulz and sheep him just to dunk on us post game rather than start infighting?

[borkjerfkin]

Well first off I just learned that I revoted bork lmao, I forgot I threw up 130's vote entirely, just to be somewhere else after not liking the hint of townread line.

I cleared up the timeline of what I was talking about here bork if you're still confused by what I meant.

My 253 is saying that 239, the post I claimed was a strawman (ie. not grokking my point correctly), came after my vote [in 233]

I know that. The fact that you think I'm saying something else was like a huge neon fucking sign that either we were talking past each other or you were trying to just muddy the waters of the conversation. At that point I didn't have any reason to think you were voting me for misrepresenting what you were trying to say in 233, and it took a lot from me to get to that admission to the point where it just seemed like you were trying to talk circles around me instead of answering.

And after all that, I think the fact that you're latching on to the fact that I said "write them off" instead of "town read them for now" as something I find hard to believe someone would genuinely think, Like I think the fact that reads can change should be self evident. You made it about that instead of about what I was really asking about - the grouping of three players that, to a lot of people, would be arbitrary.

It also seemed like you came out of the gate in 242 looking to scumread me no matter what I followed up with (this is utterly 100% subjectively my opinion), and I think generally the best way to deal with that is to move on for the moment, as the longer that goes on the less I can tell the difference between a well intentioned tunneler and scum who want to clog up the game thread with minutiae during this type of interaction.

The fact that after a few days later you're basically just egging me on at every point to regurgitate the same conversation for the third time is not a town thing to do.

VOTE: prism

I also am rereading and don't like

Part of me wondered if you thought me an easy target after Illicit, not necessarily to get wagoned but to at least score points off of. I will quickly put it to rest.

Don't know where any of this comes from; I barely know you, have no reason to think you're a weak player, and and it just serves to do nothing but attribute nonexistent scum motivation for engaging with you.

[borkjerfkin]

bork, can you walk through why you still seem to think my vote in 233 was prompted by the misrepresentation of 239, in the context of 497?

how could i possibly fucking think this lol

you voted me obviously for something from 225, but you used 239 as post-hoc justification for this every time i tried to engage about 233

[borkjerfkin]

like before you go and quote something that looks like i'm trying to purport what you're saying and go "gotcha", realize that i do understand how times works

[borkjerfkin]

like before you go and quote something that looks like i'm trying to purport what you're saying and go "gotcha", realize that i do understand how time works

ebwop

[borkjerfkin]

And do you, at the most basic level, disagree that you drastically overstated my point to discredit it in 239?

yes

[borkjerfkin]

okay, scratch that, there is no reasoning with you whatsoever then if you're going to be this obtuse, just going to go back to reading the game

Yes this whole conversation has felt very much like trying to reason with me.

(Like, I'm trying not to be mean here, but you're basically saying at this point that the only way I can be town here is if I'm just being mentally inept in some way and I'm sorry but I take issue with that.)

[borkjerfkin]

You think that I'm using 239 as an after-the-fact justification with my vote.

Yes. I have it on record that "you didn't like any of my posts up to that point, starting with the ffery read post". (I didn't think the ffery post, the specific example you gave, was a good reason), but I acknowledge what I just quoted as a reason and I guess THE reason.

I don't see how this gets to the point where you claim I'm trying to say that I'm trying to argue something factually false - I'd expect your reaction there to be first "he or I obviously don't understand something about this conversation" but that's not what happened

[borkjerfkin]

Yes. I have it on record that "you didn't like any of my posts up to that point, starting with the ffery read post". (I didn't think the ffery post, the specific example you gave, was a good reason), but I acknowledge what I just quoted as a reason and I guess THE reason.

Actually, I take that back, because you voted me in 233 and I was trying to figure out why, and all stuff you mentioned later on was either 239+ or stuff that didn't happen in 225. I was trying to suss out what your deal w/ 225 was and I got this mess.

[borkjerfkin]

I'm rather surprised nobody sans vax/skitter is even like remotely reacting to me v prism on the last few pages in lieu of whatever the fuck most of this page is

[borkjerfkin]

Respectfully, a lot of my posts have been that I couldn't believe you would continue to argue something factually false. This is why I've tried clearing up the timeline repeatedly, which was the intent with my last post especially since I realized I did indeed miss a vote earlier.

I'm trying to process your interaction w/ me from a standpoint of someone who wants to clarify things and failing

[borkjerfkin]

Yeah I think you're town. Though tlaloc knows where my paranoia eventually takes me.

Don't really think I'm here yet. With either of you.
Think I'm coming around to Syr though

[borkjerfkin]

Vax is prob town too
I dont remember if i said that

agree

[borkjerfkin]

But but but my shiny prism townread. You're gonna fucking we'll make me read the bork and prism back and forth in earnest now aren't you.

=/

[borkjerfkin]

But but but my shiny prism townread. You're gonna fucking we'll make me read the bork and prism back and forth in earnest now aren't you.

like why would you not read it if only as an attempt to read me, something you've been decidedly undecided on (or cagy?) on this game

[borkjerfkin]

Bork, mostly I'm bothered that you're ignoring my most charitable posts and kind of just sniping where you can. I've summarized your viewpoint accurately. As far as I can tell, you have made no attempt to frame mine for clarity. This is important. It doesn't mean admitting I'm town.

I'm looking at things like 280 and 858 and the most I'm getting out of that those was (mostly 280) "you did something else I didn't like but it might've been inadvertent" and that does not an olive branch make. What exactly are you expecting me to say to that?

What were you trying to clear up in 858? that you realized the second vote of me was a revote?

[borkjerfkin]

Unrelated to any post on this page i will be around in a bit

[borkjerfkin]

Ie. 858 didn't have a point. It was just me rereading, then saying "Oh hey, now I see why bork said I revoted-I was always talking about the 233 vote to be clear"

I guess I assumed that 858 was one of the charitable posts I was ignoring. If that's not what you meant then whatever, disregard

It

should've

had a point though - a legitimate miscommunication did happen and instead you're basically framing it like it's just a lack of understanding on my end and now that you've clarified your position I should get on the same page as you instead of reevaluating the context of our entire conversation and really fucking undermines how clear you're apparently being.

I don't consider that sort of "I'm so confident in my worldview that i can't understand how you have the opinion you do" attitude to be inherently scummy, but every interaction you've had with me has been you immediately jumping up my ass about something and when I react in a way that states that I don't see things the way you do, much less getting combative in response, your response is pointing and saying "bork's being unreasonable because he's not acknowledging that he's trying to undermine my argument" and i don't think you legitimately believe that

[borkjerfkin]

sorry i was making this

[borkjerfkin]

...the one we just played?

lol

[borkjerfkin]

i see this one really hit the mark

[borkjerfkin]

i'm pretty sure somehow that comparison is insulting to everyone involved

I am more worried about skitter if prism flips town; I am more worried about pooky if prism flips scum; that vote seems like the bussiest on the wagon

haven't seen you talk much about DGB and is probably the read i have the least handle on - why is she at the very bottom for you?

[borkjerfkin]

{--------}
{Prism, Cabd}
{Mod}
{Syr, Vax, Peta, DGB}
{Pooky}
{skitter}

I don't know where to put bork. :/

there's a cushy spot right at the top where you have nobody

what's your holdup. why don't i get to be in the middle even

[borkjerfkin]

guys start pressuring me if u like
nothing much is gonna change as is i imagine

pedit there we go

Syr.

You don't have to town read me.

But you know exactly what .gif this post deserves.

???

[borkjerfkin]

I feel so unsorted here. I know you and prism are yelling at each other and maybe that just gets in the way of seeing how your other reads are forming. It's fucking insane that I need more data from you, but such it is.

ok, stream of consciousness:

I like vax. Haven't liked any pushes on vax.
I scumread syr early but I think syr's been very town since the shitposting phase stopped.

I'm acutely aware that skitter has been on my side during this prism thing, but it seems like the sort of push that is almost necessarily not an SVS interaction with prism; it feels like it's plenty easy for scum prism to just go after me and ignore the cheerleading that skitter is doing for me.
peta just seems off and weird and interactions with prism are especially weird.

I have very little opinion on DGB. I think her style doesn't lend itself to a strong D1 read; to a certain extent this applies to pooky too but I think pooky just feels more town to me through various tonal aspects in the teen page regions
I'd put ben below both of them probably
mod pizza i need to reread - been mostly glossing over everything they post because it's been extremely focused on a narrow part of the playerlist.
Elements seems reasonable and pretty transparent but is not really something I can take to the bank with that ISO

I don't like that cabd has been cutting in at low impact times and staying away at high impact times. To even get him to comment on prism was like pulling teeth and that was at F-2. Cabd has also been really guarded about me and then throws me in top tier town suddenly which just I guess doesn't match the sort of attitude toward me I'd be expecting around that.
FFery, I notice also that you have prism pretty high up without really a reference to anything besides 129 and I'm wondering if you can elaborate on that considering

[borkjerfkin]

your cabd read is p inscrutable to me, but i'm kinda assumign it's gonna be so i'm not super interested in it

I on the other hand

[borkjerfkin]

I'm not sure what you mean about low inpact vs high impact times.

Mean mostly around the Prism wagon, and the "oh you want me to read the wagon about the player who is at F-2, what a bother"

I'm rereading and am reacting a little more charitably around the interaction w/ Elements; I had filed away that he didn't really follow-up on that interaction but not true actually

Eh, I'm feeling different about it on reread; circa 1039 that's where I was at

[borkjerfkin]

It's been a fuckton of things with Prism. I feel like I know how they are processing this game better than anyone else, that or there's a ton of stuff going on under the surface that I'm not seeing even a flicker of. and in all of that, there's been so many instances of thinking what I'm thinking. I'm reading this thread peicemeal and skipping around for context because I lost the plot initially somewhere around page 15, I think.

such as?

[borkjerfkin]

Re Pooky my impression coming into today was that he's been mostly off-topic posting, chivvying Mod over his paranoia about being pocketed

I feel like any legitimate conversation about getting "pocketed" like 15 fucking minutes into D1 where all that conversation was happening is just fucking silly noise

[borkjerfkin]

my dude

[borkjerfkin]

\o

[borkjerfkin]

good this was a slot i'd been actively avoiding dealing with

[borkjerfkin]

Cabd's townreading bork but ehhhhh I don't know what I think now.

now that what?

[borkjerfkin]

(sorry everyone in this house is either sick, hurting themselves, or yelling today so i may not be as responsive as i can be)

most of my attempt to deal w/ cabd this game is to hope for an interaction with me over (or even just an observation about) the stuff i was doing early game or the stuff i got into prism with midgame.

None of that happened so my perception was mostly that he was willing to post but not about stuff that was important (to me), and when I got the readlist from him with me at the top I didn't really know why a lot of it was there it was so I reread a little of his ISO, and now that I did, I can see a bit of progression on Elements, peta, DGB, it's just buried between a lot of stuff that i've been skipping over.

Now that you've turned my question into a question can you explain what you meant?

[borkjerfkin]

tomorrow night around this time probably; never really gonna before then Mon-Thu

[borkjerfkin]

Cabd's townreading bork but ehhhhh I don't know what I think now.

now that what?

you just completely ignored this?

[borkjerfkin]

at 792 you seemed to be on the cusp, i'm just not sure how I went to no man's land

[borkjerfkin]

Do you feel like you've towned it up such that I should be seeing a townbork beacon?

Sure.

Your move

[borkjerfkin]

I don't. Not yet, anyway. Maybe I'm just too damn lost in the weeds. kinda feels that way. I wanted a stake in the ground. Cabd noped and Syr left me standing.

Am wondering what your angle was on this question.

And, ok, um, where are we unaligned on reads re: the list i posted yesterday?

[borkjerfkin]

I think you're underselling how toxic this is

assuming this is referring to me, you don't have to talk to me or whatever but i'm not trying to like, make this personal

[borkjerfkin]

Do you have a strong townread? It sounds like if you do, it's Vax? I can't tell how this sorts out to tiers so I can't really tell if I agree with your sorting or not.

What are your thoughts on skitter's me-push?

yeah, probably vax.
back in a bit will get to this, wife aggro

[borkjerfkin]

all of this is to say that i, and at least a few other people, i believe, don't really buy into your 1v1 and in my personal view insisting on it getting resolved is detrimental to the town wincon. i can try to go over your arguments and hopefully reach an understanding there but i want you to be willing to like...broaden your horizon, i guess?

I know this isn't to me, but I think it applies to me just as much:

I'm going to do my best to focus elsewhere for the remaining of the day. My attempts at using it even as an invitation for people to get a handle off me due to my tone have failed

[borkjerfkin]

I agree with peta ^
I think that forcing a 1v1 here is unnecessary and will ultimately harm the gamestate more than it will be helped.

I'm also not convinced that prism/bork is tvs and even, like, needs to be solved

Also peta is ++town (i think)

If Prism is town I'm probably more willing to believe this is from town...there's a lot of potential scum motivation to put this argument on hold to a point later in the game (possibly when this argument is in the distant past, much less a XYLO where neither of us has flipped) if prism is scum here

[borkjerfkin]

Who did it fail to reach? I can only think of ffery.

ffery, cabd, syr, none of whom really engaged me on anything i ever put

[borkjerfkin]

It's easy to just call me town here or hop on a wagon w/ me but that doesn't necessarily give me a lot of clarity as to their motivations
contrast to skitter who i think has done that

[borkjerfkin]

it's been very difficult this game getting at exactly what you want to converse upon.

I believe you owe me a continuation of 1655

[borkjerfkin]

The more I read the less viable you and Syr are together, which is nice. At least one of you will be town. I'm currently just past your bold ffery vote (I stole what DGB said because I thought the same thing. Also thinking DGB's vote on Ben to make him do things followed by saying she doesnt see a world where peta is town raised some eyebrows.

I have softened my stance on petapan, prompting me to watch videos to teach myself how to twerk.

I'm probably at DGB town as of this post

[borkjerfkin]

I just want to link to their iso, bork. Have you really looked at their not-about-you posts?

Can we make this about you and not me?

[borkjerfkin]

With the caveat that i'm about page 70

[borkjerfkin]

Is a Prism wall going to help? You probably won't get a wall, but w/e.

Yes

[borkjerfkin]

Hi Bork

Who’s scum in the cohort?

What do you think of elements?

gimme a few on the first one

re: elements
pretty null
1139 is the sort of post I usually raise my eyebrows at but it's consistent w/ earlier trajectory on both prism and me, so if they got there independently then it's a reasonable position to have.
I feel like most suspicion is being levied at people who aren't posting much, and while that just might be PoE/how things shook out, there's potential motivation to go after only people who aren't likely to fight back very often/hard

[borkjerfkin]

With the caveat that i'm about page 70

i have bad news about wanting to avoid the prsim v you dynamic

oh boy

[borkjerfkin]

The WKing Vax thing, I felt like they were helping to stir the pot on the whole Prism/Bork debacle earlier (keeping them pointed at each other instead of moving progress forward).

If this is about Skitter, I don't really think this is can be fairly characterized as stirring the pot. Skitter came down pretty heavily on my side, to the point where I felt that prism flipping town would have me suspecting the slot. Skitter later jumped off saying she didn't really feel it and went elsewhere, which seems like a pretty towny way to react to the whole situation.

She wasn't like fanning the flames or anything (and eventually endorsed peta's post that we in fact move on from it).

[borkjerfkin]

Like the ffery vote gave me hives. I feel moderately better about it in retrospect but at the time I was like nope gtfo. The most recent thing that pulls into memory was when he said something to the effect of "ffery has correctly read me so many times over the years if she says I'm town I am regardless of her alignment". Like, what? She's played like 3 games with him since 2018. All three games were, admitted by both of them, outliers for how they'd normally read each other. Like genuinely no idea how he can say that.

This is about cabd?

[borkjerfkin]

Well I am townreading you and prism, Bork. That’s what fueled my distrust of skitter.

I get it but I still think you're mischaracterizing the interaction. if this is scum looking at a TvT interaction I'd expect them to do something like

1) wade in and start just poking at random parts of one argument or another to get them to be more wordy,
2) or to just go "nah this is TvT I'm not mediating or i'm gonna look like scum mediating"
3) hop on the wagon and try to ride it out for an ML

I realize that what skitter did looks a little like 3, but I feel like she just went "nah" and moved on of her own accord

[borkjerfkin]

Nah man, you ain't going nowhere.

VOTE: syr

VOTE: syr

I think I’m a semblance of rigor in a game where most are wishywashy plus a difficult miselim.

We’ll see. I’ll keep elimming scum until they kill me.

I was halfway through writing a wall wherein I laid out all those frustrations, when I realized "fuck me, I'm shouting at noddy here" for no other reason than I'm frustrated and you presented yourself. Cabd should be sorted. He isn't. Ffery should be hiveminding with me. She's not. My reads apparently suck. I don't know what to do, dude.

wondering if the facade is just starting to crack here with syr

but this isn't the answer i was gonna give earlier @noddy

[borkjerfkin]

gotta do an interview even though I'm apparently off today

be around tonite though

p-edit: I was gonna say ffery, just didn't want that to color what she came back with wallwise but i'm out of time

[borkjerfkin]

I too feel like syr has to be scum and don’t need the tell burned.

Fuck this, I do need the tell.

I did not like 1835 but I was reading that as a "I'm going to dig in my heels and hope this pressure goes away"
This very much seems like something else to me.

Like let's play a fucking mafia game instead just playing the constant arms race surrounding mafia games because the question of "not burning tells" is an inherently unsportsmanlike thing to even consider when shit is actually on the line.

[borkjerfkin]

peta looks good on this page

[borkjerfkin]

VOTE: syryana

that's E-2, by my count. (notsci, cabd, pooky, ffery, me)

if this flips town I'm just basically straight up only looking here tomorrow

[borkjerfkin]

His white knight of ffery wrt Cabds vote was awful and he should have been voted then.

Wasn't a WK of ffery.
If anything he laid it out as an attempt to manipulate me

[borkjerfkin]

why did you make 2176

re: @noddy

[borkjerfkin]

???????????????????

[borkjerfkin]

is this some oblique xenoblade reference

[borkjerfkin]

I'm takin the W

[borkjerfkin]

bork I know it's left in the dust but anything to say about my prism town post?

I'll admit I completely lost track of this due to recent events. Let me go back and look

[borkjerfkin]

Look. This is the cakez thing day one again.

Yes but I wasn't in that game (and I want to say I had no stake in whether or not you were right but then I look back at the crater that was my setup on D4 and clearly that isn't true)

Anyway, you know me, I'd probably have dug in my heels on that moving too fast for me too.

So you get to do this

[borkjerfkin]

Hope you're still around. Shit happened.

I like the way they've pushed back on my various reasons for townreading them (which you could have found if you were reading my posts, instead of just coming back to the same thing with me every time you re-engage) as flawed is also probably more of a town thing than a scum thing. I do this as both alignments, but tend to keep at it more as town. In that vein they'll probably hate just about everything I cite here!

The trajectory of their scumread of Skitter based on posts about the you/Prism swirl feels unforced to me, like it's real things they're thinking.

The way they tried to rethink their focus on you before doubling down looks town, though it's probably a weak indicator.

Their coolness under pressure (getting to E-2? Is that a thing that actually happened?) felt town.

Their dance with petapan and the level of skepticism has a decisiveness and persistence that looks town. I'm watching both sides of that dance because if one of them is scum, I think there will eventually be a falter of some sort.

Some of the posting what I'm thinking or maybe should be thinking examples, (this is not as tight a linkage as I'd usually want but that's my fault for being in a fog for parts of the game)
- The Vax discussion with Skitter30 (which was part of my not liking Skitter at that point), and a lot of the further interactions up to the point where Skitter and I had a go-around. Their interactions still resonate probably more than anything else outside my own interactions with Skitter.
- The post about Syr/Cabd/Me gave me a small stake in the ground in terms of figuring out how I felt about our interactions at that point

This just seems like it boils down to "tone/gut" to me and that it's more designed to make me satisfied that you believe it rather than convince me I'm wrong

Also I feel that you've slapped my hand away again after "inviting" me (your words) by just suggesting i should read your posts and I'd have all the answers I want

[borkjerfkin]

I called it a WK but my issue with it was syry is accusing Cabd of something that syry also does.

which is what, just so i know what you're saying explicitly?

[borkjerfkin]

Cmon man I haven't even been here to fight with you and your angle still remains the same, where you flip the argument and then turn it against someone. leaving pitfalls in your words for people to fall into. That is why selective reading again, will benefit scum in the long-run

I literally asked why you believed something you said. It's going to be okay, dude.

Giving me some major fucking deja vu right here

[borkjerfkin]

If you acknowledge that I at least have reasons to think what I think about Prism, that should mean something?

It does mean something or I wouldn't have asked. I still stand by what I just said; I don't think "seems like they believe what they say" or their tone under pressure is a really high bar to hit as scum. I don't consider myself a good scum player and feel like I hit all those tonal marks in IS pretty handily.

[borkjerfkin]

OK retrace your thought to me and do it baby steps because now I find myself possibly misinterpreting something

I don't want to fight you, yes I think your actions are scummy but this doesn't need to be another bout

are you literally me

[borkjerfkin]

this is just how i felt when engaging prism like "should i keep this the least bit real and accept that this game is now 5 pages longer than it otherwise would've been"

reminds me a little of playing against thor early in my career

[borkjerfkin]

Ffery I woke up though.

I'm sorry I hurt your achy breaky heart but it's okay now.

if you're saying you liked 2359 i agree

[borkjerfkin]

Scum-Syr Model: "Leans into shitposting/memes early, runs out of stamina, grouses once he runs out of steam"

then replaces out?

[borkjerfkin]

disregard, i am breaking rules.

[borkjerfkin]

an anticlimactic tell from the metabinder.

I mean, yeah. I don't consider this some grand revelation and I guess I'm not super surprised this is what we ended up wit. You probably could've just opened w/ it. You think he's demotivated scum. Cool.

[borkjerfkin]

me? I think that's a pretty reasonable interpretation of it.

re: @noddy

[borkjerfkin]

you said it was slimy

[borkjerfkin]

oh, k

[borkjerfkin]

Can we walk this whole fucking thing back and get back to why unwnd is scum other than "syr seemed demoralized after the shitposting phase stopped" because I still feel like that's what all this shit boils down to and I am utterly uninclined to move there

[borkjerfkin]

I'll let cabd/noddy verify that i am being on the level w/ that comment

[borkjerfkin]

is unwnd the new syr ?

twitch

[borkjerfkin]

As I've mentioned earlier I don't agree w/ that assessment of the situation

[borkjerfkin]

There's also the part where he and I chatted about a week before the game started about how we would catch a potential scum Ffery and he told me he didn't think he could but that if I saw something he'd probably hunt it to the end of the Earth and then if I was wrong murder me.

lol that is entirely contingent on ffery not only being scum but also being obvious enough that syr glommed onto it

[borkjerfkin]

Yes yes, gammajerkfin, noraa is very town and you are gonna drive her and prove her innocence.

are you seriously trying to equate this situation to where you knew there was a guilty on a player but were trying to just mask who it was from

fuck off lol

[borkjerfkin]

And if you try to tell me the whole cohorts town again I’m going to vote you

is this to me?

[borkjerfkin]

What? I'm saying town syr doesn't reject the possibility outright. He didn't even give that theory a moment's consideration. He just instantly reaction voted me for it.

That had nothing to do with ffery and everything to do with you

[borkjerfkin]

p-edit: I love your*

sorry no backsies

[borkjerfkin]

Yes because I refuse to believe we’re all town and you went out of your way to tell me that we were in illicit when I was panicking over both meta circles all townreading each other

oh you're talking about something i did in a different game when i was scum

cool

[borkjerfkin]

Yes skitter that is the point I’m making and is why I don’t get why Bork is being so hard tsun tsun

Ninja
Yes that was the allusion I was making and I’m townreading you here but we need less kumbayah and more HIYAAAH

none of this is "let's just all get along"

all of this is "place a clear and concise argument down to the point where if I'm DGB i don't yell at you about how it's stupid"

how about that

[borkjerfkin]

What? I'm saying town syr doesn't reject the possibility outright. He didn't even give that theory a moment's consideration. He just instantly reaction voted me for it.

That had nothing to do with ffery and everything to do with you

also you never really framed it like that at the time, you were just all the sudden like "hey guys i just had an epiphany"

and that epiphany was this meta case

[borkjerfkin]

it's more complicated than that but for me he puts an early townread on prism (139 224 232 314) but then sheeped skitter on prism in a not very good looking way (1027 1035) and gave a townread on skitter that was not very well justified and seemed to be giving little too much leeway (1896 1901). those were what gave me issues.

that is helpful. i'll check progression on that read

[borkjerfkin]

I'm not sure if you're in:

"Cabd is scum casing town-syr"
or
"Cabd is town incorrectly casing town-syr"
mode and like I think it's the latter, but like... I dunno man your reaction is very muted.

These aren't discrete states. Overall despite my early misgivings I think most of your play ended up being pretty reasonable.

Look, I'm never the type of player that's going to go along w/ the stuff you did in Xenoblade; (and I'm not trying to make a denouncing ethical argument here so don't think this is that)
I'm just a really cautious player who takes a long time to get to places where I'm comfortable taking someone else's word at face value.
Whether or not you're town or scum is really a lagging indicator on this, not a leading one

[borkjerfkin]

NO i mean that's fair. Are you receptive if I case what bothered me about syr from the getgo more in depth, or are you good with writing that off as "cabd did things and called syr demotivated scum"

Of course I'm receptive that's the entire fucking point of this convo lol

[borkjerfkin]

This whole game has individuals just peeing into the eyes of their partner awkwardly fumbling with their hands afraid to make the first move to unzip the pants

Peta/Prism's sexual tension was off the CHARTS

you know i was going to make a joke way back about how i wouldn't want to do the meta dance because we'd have way more sexual tension than anyone else's, and then...

help

[borkjerfkin]

I definitely just think one in this mess, if there were two I'd be absolutely shocked.

who is the pool of players you're talking about right this second?

[borkjerfkin]

Do you think that list of players who potentially have a deepwolf? Because Notsci said the deepwolf is elsewhere and I absolutely disagree

I don't consider peta/prism cabal members (yet?) - I barely know either's mafia personas outside of a few games, so if anything I'm on the outskirts of the group if they're a part of it.

Out of that list of people Cabd definitely has the range to pants the entire playerlist and he'd be the first to tell you. I'm not saying noddy doesn't at this point but I have personally never seen it. I know how ffery feels about her scumgame (I guess they're gonna probably reference Vi's game here but if you think i remember shit about that game you're drastically mistaken). I'm not the type of player that takes any of these takes to the bank because the minute I do someone fucking reaches for strength they didn't know they had and gets by everyone. This is kinda why I don't really care to meta people either.

Anyway there's a quote from DGB from SFA that i wanna bring out:

Even winning scum teams are usually disorganized and fairly incompetent.

like I kinda don't think anyone's drawn these kind of "i'm gonna deepwolf and you're the designated eventual bus target" lines, especially on D1, lol.

[borkjerfkin]

If you don't think I'm scum Bork then do you agree with DGB's post in the sense you think the scum also

Doesn't know what the fuck they're doing? Which is why you think this is more in line with what Peta said about town just ripping into each other?

Weird paragraphing lol

my point is games usually aren't this fucking planned at this point. Usually catching scum is more to do with who was willing to go where when the chips are down than any of these hypotheticals.

Like in a scumteam w/ 2+ lurkers you need to necessarily allow that they're letting town control the game and hoping they fuck it up rather than anything anyone is talking about here

[borkjerfkin]

like I kinda don't think anyone's drawn these kind of "i'm gonna deepwolf and you're the designated eventual bus target" lines, especially on D1, lol.

ehhhhhhhhhh i can see that happening this game tbh
or at least i wouldn't entirely ignore the possibility

I'm not in the business of just pointing to possibilities

It's possible that prism/cabd/ffery are all scum (probably at this point the team I'm most scared of having a meticulous strategy just based on two people i know pretty well and one i'm armchairing) and the scum pt is 35 pages long right now and i'm gonna look like a fucking moron post game

I don't know how to quantify the existence of such a team with a designated "deepwolf"

[borkjerfkin]

Bork we literally were just saying scum was doing nothing and letting town control things (syry and elements) and whoever is last scum was being productive, hence unwnd going as hard as they are

Granted I’m thinking a few steps ahead.

ok well you get 2656 anyway

enjoy

[borkjerfkin]

like, it quite simply works. i've done it. like i've never been in the town side of a game quite like this but i played a scum one that had quite a lot of similarities to this one and my whole goal the entire game was to keep the arguments going as much as i could

and this has been prism's MO the whole game

[borkjerfkin]

holy shit

[borkjerfkin]

if you planned that i am fucking impressed

[borkjerfkin]

I don't know what the fuck to actually do w/ 2663 lol

[borkjerfkin]

i hate this

[borkjerfkin]

i'm not letting this NL lol

[borkjerfkin]

VOTE: pooky

I really don't like 2191 with the scum flip here; that post really just feels like he knew that flip was going to be ahead of time

[borkjerfkin]

VOTE: dgb

ben why is dgb scum again?

don't really like this progression either

[borkjerfkin]

like you dont really understand me very much if you think scumpooky gives up control to cabd there

i've literally never played with you

i'm listening though

[borkjerfkin]

i mean i know why i'm voting dgb
i want to know why *ben* is voting dgb

just reread, i transposed the order of those votes in my head, i thought you came in behind ben

[borkjerfkin]

ive never bussed a teammate in my life. if im scum and cabd comes for my scumbuddy i will fight him to the death.

qualifier for first sentence. i meant on d1. i will bus at lylo for tactical reasons.

Uh

[borkjerfkin]

not sure how to engage w/ that

[borkjerfkin]

qualifier for first sentence. i meant on d1. i will bus at lylo for tactical reasons.

why is bussing at d1 for tactical reasons any different than bussing at lylo for tactical reasons

not every game has a cabd

[borkjerfkin]

vax still just looks really fucking town

[borkjerfkin]

ive never bussed a teammate in my life. if im scum and cabd comes for my scumbuddy i will fight him to the death.

qualifier for first sentence. i meant on d1. i will bus at lylo for tactical reasons.

want dgb's opinion in particular here i think

[borkjerfkin]

because he was opaque as fuck initially and after explaining i was not moved

[borkjerfkin]

To quote an old Pooky line, "I've never bussed Day 1". Maybe he finally broke it but I'm fine giving him the benefit of the doubt.

lol

[borkjerfkin]

even after watching him ascend to near godhood in XenoGears you were unconvinced?

aren't you part of the Cohort?

also lol

[borkjerfkin]

santa's the one who knows when you got a red PM

[borkjerfkin]

Bork can you talk about why you thought the scum in the cohort was Ffery?

cause a lot of her mid game content felt like either just observational in nature or vague in conclusions: (1080, 1274, 2099 are all examples of this
i also didn't particularly like that she had me as right outside her townblock then all the sudden i was on some weird tangential plane where i didn't belong on her list at all

[borkjerfkin]

a lot of syr's early game content seemed to be entirely dedicated to putting effort around hunkering down and facing ffery

all the way from 39 through 804 or so

especially 680 just seems really unlikely coming from a buddy

[borkjerfkin]

Bork, do you mind giving specific thoughts about the Ben slot?

early on the game attitude seemed reasonably town through 658 or so, less enthused about no engagement for over a week and what little content he's given is entirely centered on a DGB take from the game in its infancy.

[borkjerfkin]

I'm also kind of curious as to where I went to alignment wise in your mind, I don't want to get into the weeds or debate whatever read you have but I don't think you've said a word about it today yet.

I don't know; I'm not locktowning you for the unwnd scum flip, but I'm trying to reset today considering you were the obvious counterwagon
I don't necessarily agree that you wouldn't kill peta, and your shift to disinterest since the start of the day is not really what I'd expect either considering a scum flip.

[borkjerfkin]

are you personally waiting on Ben to claim?

where are you within the people in your PoE right now otherwise?

[borkjerfkin]

he literally hasn't posted anywhere since he posted here last

[borkjerfkin]

Anyway, thanks for answering those. Not going to act like I'm the biggest fan of the answers but I appreciate it

...is it gonna be worth it to ask why you think that

[borkjerfkin]

But he picked up a prod at night???

he's posted here since daystart

[borkjerfkin]

that said we are at 72 hours w/ no activity from him sooooooo

[borkjerfkin]

They're fine posts but not beacons of town light.

man if that isn't just a moving of the goalposts i don't know what is

p-edit: that's pretty much how i feel on the ben slot right now

[borkjerfkin]

You came in a bit aggressive on Pooky early in the day and had an awkward engagement.

pooky came in saying that he never busses d1 (and is therefore town)

I'm not taking that at face value, since, if he were scum, you know, he'd argue the same, yeah?

[borkjerfkin]

I'm concerned about you standing pat for the most part and not engaging more directly with that read on me before I asked.

noted

[borkjerfkin]

man if that isn't just a moving of the goalposts i don't know what is

You asked why I wasn't the biggest fan of the posts. How I feel in reaction to them is very up to me.

They addressed my questions in plausible but not particularly persuasive ways. I didn't hate them but what I took from them was that I was right to be concerned.

this just quite frankly reads as nonsense

[borkjerfkin]

it feels like you're expecting that if I accept an explanation as reasonable/plausible that I have to accept you as town or your response as likely true.

no it just means, as usual, i have no fucking idea what you're trying to say

They addressed my questions in plausible but not particularly persuasive ways. I didn't hate them but what I took from them was that I was right to be concerned.

you didn't advertise any particular goal or trajectory here, so when you go "yeah that's plausible but i'm not convinced" or that you're "not the biggest fan" i have no idea what you mean, and i inferred from your response that you thought my answers were scummy and wanted to drill down into why you think that

[borkjerfkin]

you don't become town to me for answering reasonably

who the fuck indicated i was suggesting this

[borkjerfkin]

jesus fucking christ

[borkjerfkin]

On a scale of 1-5 where 1 is hate, 5 is love, I'd give the posts a 2.

fuck off lol. they were reasonable but they don't convince me you're town so actually they were bad

VOTE: prism

[borkjerfkin]

jesus fucking christ

Why so mad? Talk to me.

EVERYTHING I HAVE POSTED

THE ENTIRE FUCKING GAME

PRISM HAS JUMPED UP MY ASS FOR

AND WHY I ASK WHY

I GET <some tangential thing that either redirects, makes me sound unreasonable, or plays with language to go nowhere>

[borkjerfkin]

Can you ignore it and focus on other aspects for now? I would like to be able to read you.

i'll be back in a bit i hope and would be happy to chat with you about literally anything else

[borkjerfkin]

As long as I'm not blocked and the person doesn't die, as last night, I can let someone know. Unfortunately I picked Peta first.

this just seems remarkably convenient

i can see DGB going "let's wait for him to claim" and constructing this i guess and then making 3183

like why peta in particular for that?

[borkjerfkin]

we don't yeet this today i think regardless

[borkjerfkin]

Is your theory that I'm scum with Ben???

that is exactly what my hypothesis is in 3237 yes

[borkjerfkin]

I'm going to check right now if YOU voted Ben.

i didn't

[borkjerfkin]

Bork who’s scum on the wagon

is this in a town ben world or a scum ben world

[borkjerfkin]

Apparently, me, Ben and I have been bus'ing each other massively LOL

i mean i've literally lost games to this and you've been around the block enough to know that this happens

[borkjerfkin]

If I'm scum with Ben, why don't you vote him? You can still vote him now. Why don't you make a case for him? Where were you when I was making a case against Ben and Skitter was fighting me?

uh

my skeptcism w/ ben is entirely due to the claim which didn't happen until like extremely recently?

[borkjerfkin]

Vote Ben, and I'll vote him too.

VOTE: dgb

ben's probably town

[borkjerfkin]

3254 is one of the scummiest posts i have ever seen in a game

[borkjerfkin]

i am already voting there