Mini Normal 2211 || Summer Meet [Endgame]

[humaneatingmonkey]

nice to see you bugs

before i read the game in full, the first three people who would tell me what's going on is town

[humaneatingmonkey]

VOTE: Anya
Hahaha so much scum vibes

[humaneatingmonkey]

vibe check:
Anya - scum read x2
bugspray - town read
T3 -
Andante - scum read
geraintm -
Ivyeo -
Egix96 -
osuka - scum read
choof -
Dunnstral - town read
InsidiousLemons -
Umlaut - town read

For now, I want everyone to declare what they're doing and what their motive is. I'll go first.

Right now, I don't think there's enough information to go divide the town into two wagons, but I also want everyone to use their votes and see where the game state leads. I'm also trying to be more familiar with everybody right now. Anya feels like scum trying to look like town, while also the player who looks like they're playing a scum wincon the most. I got this vibe from bringing up town roles so early in a very fishy way "for reaction", and how she's been using RVS information so far.

Ask me anything.

[humaneatingmonkey]

because they're scum like you

[humaneatingmonkey]

Anya, what are you doing and what's ur motive right now

[humaneatingmonkey]

you're not even voting me

[humaneatingmonkey]

made you look

[humaneatingmonkey]

Adante could be town

[humaneatingmonkey]

that "that "you're not even voting me" shadow casting is premature for me saying one opinion on you" is premature for me saying one opinion on you

you seem eager to blow smoke over me

[humaneatingmonkey]

you're ACTUALLY saying a post asking the mod a question is a scumtell? this is hilarious

I thought the point Andante was trying to make was that Ivyeo was making posts that, even if made with the intention of being helpful, did not really do much to advance the game.

Yeah sorta. There was nothing advancing about Ivy's stuff, I understand it was RVS, but like, even in RVS people usually have something, to me it literally looked like Ivy was trying to do the bare minimum on posting to get by - if that makes sense. Voted the one who claimed VT, ok cool.. idk, the vibes aren't there, and even since calling out Ivy, Ivy hasn't changed anything about how they're really playing

if ivy is town, who do you think is scum?

[humaneatingmonkey]

What do you mean general meta vibes

[humaneatingmonkey]

I don't see a scum gerain just openly saying this.

i'm playing the long con. i'll keep saying it as town until the one time i am scum....

what are you doing and what's ur motive right now

[humaneatingmonkey]

I don't see a scum gerain just openly saying this.

I think Andante is town based on the general meta vibes.

also, after explaining your andante meta town read, can you tell me what are you doing and what's ur motive right now

[humaneatingmonkey]

I don't see a scum gerain just openly saying this.

I think Andante is town based on the general meta vibes.

What do you tr me for? pocket request rejected.

You seem less confident and more argumentative and that I think aligns with town you.

how many games have you had with andante, and can you cite games?

[humaneatingmonkey]

T3 could be scum

[humaneatingmonkey]

@Egix
I honestly completely forgot why I had her as scumread at first, but I would probably remember if I surf her ISO. Mostly now, I thought her POV was towny so I can put her in the town pile for the meantime. Same with the other reads, I made it in the moment and then put it out there. It's more of a mental note to pay attention to them.

[humaneatingmonkey]

@MOD

Request VC

[humaneatingmonkey]

game 2+2+1+1

can you explain this I'm dense

[humaneatingmonkey]

this is not a scum post ↑

[humaneatingmonkey]

do you think that was scum!Ivy?

[humaneatingmonkey]

if it's not a scum post, it was a town post. she can be town for now.

[humaneatingmonkey]

there are only three ways to read posts. scum, town, or either. if it's not a scum post, it's a town post. but agree to disagree.

can we talk about anya? can you an opinion from you?

[humaneatingmonkey]

that "you're not even voting me" shadow casting is premature for me saying one opinion on you

you seem eager to blow smoke over me

what is your opinion on this post

[humaneatingmonkey]

so you think im funny huh nice pocket attempt wont win me over

I don't even understand what she was trying to say there, I read the context, laughed at what you did with her, "shadow casting is premature for me saying one opinion on you" this has me like "what???"
"you seem eager to blow smoke over me" this part feels like she's more frustrated she isn't the only funny one??

I really just don't even get this post, thus ignored it

if i tell you that anya was being serious here, and that it was a legitimate reaction to me saying that she hasn't even voted me yet, how would that change your opinion?

[humaneatingmonkey]

yeah gerain is weird i've played with him a few times and he sort of doesnt do shit until he suddenly does

what are you doing and what's ur motive right now

[humaneatingmonkey]

thats not related to the question but interesting pivot

[humaneatingmonkey]

lemons hardcore townposting, conftown
hem can be townish for now

can you explain lemons hardcore townposting, conftown?
can you also explain why I'm townish?

[humaneatingmonkey]

if it's not a scum post, it was a town post. she can be town for now.

this is a terrible way to play mafia.

there are only three ways to read posts. scum, town, or either. if it's not a scum post, it's a town post. but agree to disagree.

this argument doesn't even follow. if it's not a town post there are still, by your own admission, two options left: null and scum. thinking in such binary terms as "if a post isn't explicitly town AI then it is necessarily scum AI" will get us nowhere

this is very pedantic but I can't help myself.

the options aren't town, scum, and null. it's town, scum, and either. if it's not scum, then it can't be either. thus it can only be town.
i'm not talking about player alignment, i'm talking about reading posts. i understand it's too early to conftown someone.

[humaneatingmonkey]

lmao Lemons complaining that T3 isn't interacting with the game but had enough content in 8 posts to organize a readlist. surely, you understand the irony.

[humaneatingmonkey]

do you think T3 could be scum?

[humaneatingmonkey]

who do you think is scum then?

[humaneatingmonkey]

humaneatingmonkey (4): Umlaut, Anya, geraintm, InsidiousLemons
osuka (2): Bugspray, Ivyeo
Umlaut (1): geraintm
Anya (1): choof
geraintm (1): Andante
T3 (1): Egix96
Andante (1): osuka

With 12 players, how many are the mafia? 3?

[humaneatingmonkey]

Why is the above directed at T3 and not me?

see above. i have history with T3 and i'm trying to avoid a specific scenario where he does fuck all for 30 pages and then flips VT.

your post history also feels much more organic than T3's. you posted a few times early game, vanished for a few pages, now you're back. your ISO is skinny, but what's there is at least somewhat intentional. T3's posts, on the other hand, are very evenly spread out through the game, and seem to have been made with the goal of having posted something rather than scumhunting or applying pressure. he said his goal this game was "to read" for god's sake. if that's not a reason to try and get some content out of him then i don't know what is.

don't get me wrong though. i do want to hear more from you. do you have any substantive reads or takes on what's happened in the time you've been gone, apart from what you've mentioned just now?

p-edit top FoS's right now are you, osuka, bugspray and gerain, in no particular order. i haven't switched off of osuka yet because there's still not been a vote count and i'm wary of changing when i have no idea what the totals are. that being said, i hardly think i'll kill you if i

VOTE: humaneatingmonkey

so with these in no particular order, why choose me and why have you spent most of your time on T3?

[humaneatingmonkey]

gerain, a scumread that you have, is doing a worse job than T3.

[humaneatingmonkey]

in fact, if osuka is a scumread of yours, why did you even switch off him instead of putting your vote to good use?

[humaneatingmonkey]

osuka, can you please read #390 to #406 again and please tell me what you think about Lemons' apparently natural thought process

[humaneatingmonkey]

only 397? what about 398 and 399?

[humaneatingmonkey]

what about it makes you think tvt, other than the assumption that lemons is town for "townposting" (read: IIOA)

[humaneatingmonkey]

okay it seems like Lemons is being widely seen as town. i'm not seeing that at all. though I promised myself to wait until activity picks up because I want to see what happens around my wagon.

[humaneatingmonkey]

huh? if it's not tvt, i'm scum? what's the logic in that?

Lemons hate T3 for the sins he had in a past game that gerain is doing even worse. if Lemons is the type to pressure someone for low info, and gerain is a scumread of his, how come i'm his preference? there's nothing consistent about that at all.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Lemons has never interacted with gerain or did something about his suspicion that gerain is scum other than say that he's playing mafia terribly. playing mafia terribly is not a scumtell.

[humaneatingmonkey]

In fact, Lemons gave me "townpoints" and he had choof as "looking more town". Although he gave my other posts "scumpoints" check what his reasons are for me being scum. There's nothing consistent about this dude.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Lemons, I'm sorry for misgendering you and I hope your audition went great.

VOTE: InsiduousLemons but I will compromise with a geraintm wagon if you guys like that better.

[humaneatingmonkey]

you're overwhelmingly likely to be the scum instead of lemons

this is one. this one I disagree with.

[humaneatingmonkey]

you're trying way too hard for a reason i cannot discern right now

uhh.... i'm playing a game and trying to win. that's the reason.

[humaneatingmonkey]

osuka, chill the fuck out. that post wasn't made in a vacuum. it was part of a series.

[humaneatingmonkey]

on the other hand, geraintm looks scummy as hell. nothing about this dude makes me think "he's playing to win as town", and everything about this dude makes me think "he's playing to win as scum."

[humaneatingmonkey]

Will Eliminate
InsidiousLemons
geraintm

Watching Out For
bugspray

I Don't Know Yet
Anya
Egix96
osuka
Dunnstral

Town
Umlaut
Andante
T3
Ivyeo

Confident about my townpile. I'm willing to look the other way to the players whose alignment I don't know yet.

[humaneatingmonkey]

it's still completely pointless. i'm not going to "chill out" if you keep posting that sort of shit

if you're town, you'll say that because it's true and because you're playing wincon. if you're scum, you'll say that even though it's false because you're playing wincon. now we're at the same place where we started but you have an extra post, i have fewer brain cells, and now the discussion we were actually having is completely derailed because you wanted to _really highlight_ that you disagreed with my read on you

if you were paying attention, I wanted to really highlight that Lemons is a sketchy dude. If you instead focused on that and chilled the fuck out, you would have understood this whole conversation instead of being unnecessary tilted

[humaneatingmonkey]

the dude's not in the business of finding out who scum is, and all about trying to not look like scum. also, I don't think he's ever done something about his vote on me? has he verbalized his reason on voting for me? nah dude, this guy's parking.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Lemons hate T3 for the sins he had in a past game that gerain is doing even worse. if Lemons is the type to pressure someone for low info, and gerain is a scumread of his, how come i'm his preference? there's nothing consistent about that at all.

Evidence:
1. T3's ISO, which has been very engaged in the game, compared to gerain's ISO, which has been self-absorbed and completely disconnected from the game.
2. Lemons' scumlist, which includes gerain and me, but who didn't vote gerain. (despite the pressure that gerain has from people like Ivyeo, Andante, and Dunnstral — making him a very viable wagon).

Lemons has never interacted with gerain or did something about his suspicion that gerain is scum other than say that he's playing mafia terribly. playing mafia terribly is not a scumtell.

Evidence:
1. Lemons' ISO, whose only mention of gerain is a comment on how terrible he plays.

In fact, Lemons gave me "townpoints" and he had choof as "looking more town". Although he gave my other posts "scumpoints" check what his reasons are for me being scum. There's nothing consistent about this dude.

Evidence
1. Lemons' choofslot progression: #140 → #244 → #342 → #347 (after Umaluts' #346) → and now #395 → #406. This is not natural progression.

[humaneatingmonkey]

the dude's not in the business of finding out who scum is, and all about trying to not look like scum. also, I don't think he's ever done something about his vote on me? has he verbalized his reason on voting for me? nah dude, this guy's parking.

to clarify, this is gerain.

[humaneatingmonkey]

My guys, I will misgender frequently. This is not personal. I am not American, and my native language is genderless.

[humaneatingmonkey]

insult and acting tough aren't substitute for substance, osuka

[humaneatingmonkey]

if anything, in a universe where lemons is scum, why on earth would he shift from pushing gerain to you, if gerain is looking like an easier mislynch? what the fuck?

who's got a wagon when he voted, osuka?

[humaneatingmonkey]

i can't insult you any more than your play has this far

you'll mature

[humaneatingmonkey]

T3 has been open with his reads and asking other people for clarification. Gerain hasn't done both of these things.

[humaneatingmonkey]

i'm not saying gerain is an easier wagon, _you_ said that. are you trying to confuse me?

i didn't say gerain was an easier mislynch. i said that if town!Lemons had both me and gerain equally as his scumread (which, I have already demonstrated his ISO doesn't reflect his claim that gerain and I are equal), he could have done something with gerain as well.

I suggest asking questions to make sure your assumptions are right, before projecting your stupidity on other people.

[humaneatingmonkey]

he'll ask a question and then promptly fuck off and completely forget about it. he'll ask questions, sure, but they're typically really not good questions at all and he never follows up. that slot has had a completely empty game, it's literally just a shell

that's your opinion, and I disagree. i think his activity so far demonstrates that he's playing a town wincon. after all, what else could be done from his perspective and playstyle?

[humaneatingmonkey]

huh... why would you say gerain is a mislynch? that's duly noted.

[humaneatingmonkey]

i could be a god-level writer, but that's not gonna make a difference for your shit-level reading comprehension.

i have already demonstrated that if Lemons hate the playstyle he associates with T3, and is inclined to pressure that, a consistent gameplay would have meant he would have done the same to gerain.

[humaneatingmonkey]

assuming lemons scum almost universally means you and gerain are town, because there is zero reason for scum lemons to be pushing either slot at this point in time

nice try though

zero reason? okay.

[humaneatingmonkey]

im done. sit on what i told you after you're done with your tantrums.

[humaneatingmonkey]

im now thinking you're town, gerain

[humaneatingmonkey]

monkeyeater why'd you stop pointing the flags at me?

all I had for you was vibes and vibes aren't reliable. i'm unsure about you. i want to lynch lemons today.

[humaneatingmonkey]

yes. your POV seem genuine. i won't lynch you today.

[humaneatingmonkey]

last time i looked though, there were 4 votes on you, so why aren't the 3 other people voting for you getting asmuch heat as i am?

I'm not attacking people according to who's voting me. I'm just trying to figure out who's genuine and who's consistent when it comes to hopping on wagons. I have the benefit of knowing that I'm town, and coincidentally, I'm the hottest wagon right now. Lemons, and you, were the people I thought were the sketchiest in my wagon.

[humaneatingmonkey]

happy birthday, anya

[humaneatingmonkey]

happy mafia anniversary, anya

[humaneatingmonkey]

what is the point of #540, Egix?

[humaneatingmonkey]

What else is on your mind, buddy? I wanna know what you thought of #533.

[humaneatingmonkey]

If you could also share your thoughts on Monkey vs Lemons and Monkey vs osuka, that would be good.

[humaneatingmonkey]

What's the difference between Dunn and you? Both of you seem like you're playing passively, but you seem to think he's worth the pressure.

[humaneatingmonkey]

No, Egix. No, everybody who might be reading this and thinks this way. I don't think Lemons is scum specifically because I think he's taking an easier way out of the game state.

I think Lemons is scum because — The line of thinking Lemons demonstrates is not consistent with the choices Lemons make. See #492. I'll quote it.

Lemons hate T3 for the sins he had in a past game that gerain is doing even worse. if Lemons is the type to pressure someone for low info, and gerain is a scumread of his, how come i'm his preference? there's nothing consistent about that at all.

Evidence:
1. T3's ISO, which has been very engaged in the game, compared to gerain's ISO, which has been self-absorbed and completely disconnected from the game.
2. Lemons' scumlist, which includes gerain and me, but who didn't vote gerain. (despite the pressure that gerain has from people like Ivyeo, Andante, and Dunnstral — making him a very viable wagon).

Lemons has never interacted with gerain or did something about his suspicion that gerain is scum other than say that he's playing mafia terribly. playing mafia terribly is not a scumtell.

Evidence:
1. Lemons' ISO, whose only mention of gerain is a comment on how terrible he plays.

In fact, Lemons gave me "townpoints" and he had choof as "looking more town". Although he gave my other posts "scumpoints" check what his reasons are for me being scum. There's nothing consistent about this dude.

Evidence
1. Lemons' choofslot progression: #140 → #244 → #342 → #347 (after Umaluts' #346) → and now #395 → #406. This is not natural progression.

[humaneatingmonkey]

You vs osuka just feels like a slapfight over something I don't understand. Apologies if there's something big I'm missing but yeah.

This is very premature, and I wonder if this is because I'm annoyed. However, I have the impression that osuka seems to be intentionally being obtuse as I argue that Lemons could be scum. If it was town!osuka, it would be explained that he has Lemons as "conftown". But it's super early in the game, and Lemons being scum is still a possibility. This is highly irregular for me. There's also that "slip" where he said gerains is a mislynch. Although, I'm not the kind of guy that puts much value to that on its own. It just doesn't seem to have a town perspective when I was having that back-to-back with him.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Don't worry Lemons, I'm not giving up. But I will be doing it frequently, not be choice.

[humaneatingmonkey]

to be clear, i will be using your pronouns.

[humaneatingmonkey]

hme's criticism of my supposed inconsistency is, in itself, not consistent.

can you explain this?

[humaneatingmonkey]

you have got to be fucking kidding me

no. do you think it's scummy?

[humaneatingmonkey]

now me not voting gerain is bad because he's a viable wagon. i disagree that a wagon being active is a good reason to put another vote onto it, all other things being equal. this is inconsistency

gerain being a viable wagon is evidence that you would have had good information on your scum suspect by pressing more on that slot. so, your vote there would have been a good option for you NOT MY SLOT who you have previously given "towncred" for. it's not inconsistent. it's the same assertion.

p-edit yes? in what world is self-preservation and deliberate inactivity town behaviour? these are literally the reasons you've been telling me to push gerain all game, and now suddenly he's town for doubling down?

the things that I find scummy aren't the same things that you said you found scummy. so I only hold you accountable for what you think is scummy.

he's town to me because I think he's demonstrated enough consistency and has reacted genuinely to the pressure on him. still disagree? go push him and show me he's scummy.

[humaneatingmonkey]

on the other hand, geraintm looks scummy as hell. nothing about this dude makes me think "he's playing to win as town", and everything about this dude makes me think "he's playing to win as scum."

here.

i now think that it could be valid that he's town and this is how he plays, and his reactions feel like it's genuine. i would have expected that he would overcorrect, become defensive, and try a different tactic. this could still be true, but only time will tell.

[humaneatingmonkey]

but i do wonder why osuka is defending me so hard. not convinced that that means anything about his alignment, but he had me in his pocket last game and i'm not about to let it happen again.

does this mean we agree here:

You vs osuka just feels like a slapfight over something I don't understand. Apologies if there's something big I'm missing but yeah.

This is very premature, and I wonder if this is because I'm annoyed. However, I have the impression that osuka seems to be intentionally being obtuse as I argue that Lemons could be scum. If it was town!osuka, it would be explained that he has Lemons as "conftown". But it's super early in the game, and Lemons being scum is still a possibility. This is highly irregular for me. There's also that "slip" where he said gerains is a mislynch. Although, I'm not the kind of guy that puts much value to that on its own. It just doesn't seem to have a town perspective when I was having that back-to-back with him.

[humaneatingmonkey]

i'll be very honest, Lemons. I don't think I can get much out of a 1 on 1 with you. My reason for wanting you lynched is inconsistency but your sudden self-aware comeback was enough to soften me up. I've already caught you being inconsistent once, so I don't think by tunneling you, I can put you in a position where I can be confident you're scum or confident that you're town.

[humaneatingmonkey]

What's the meta on osuka? Does he have a reputation for being obtuse and overhostile?

[humaneatingmonkey]

it's in line with the rest of his argument. i can understand you thinking that calling me conftown was an overstatement, and i'm inclined to agree that it's a little suspect so early in the game.

why is it only a small deal for you that someone seems to be more confident than he usually has to be? isn't that a scumtell?

[humaneatingmonkey]

Eww.

Is this a policy lynch? Or you think this was a scummy reaction?

[humaneatingmonkey]

so... your reason for not taking it more into account is that it's impossible to sort him anyway? or do you just don't believe that it's a reliable scumtell in general?

[humaneatingmonkey]

also: the bit you quoted is the "yes" of the "yes and no." i'm saying that that behaviour is indeed suspicious.

oh ok. would you be down to wagon him, if that's the case?

[humaneatingmonkey]

so what do you want to do next with osuka's slot?

[humaneatingmonkey]

What's the meta on osuka? Does he have a reputation for being obtuse and overhostile?

yes lol

he did the same thing as scum, and this doesn't even raise some questions from you?
right now, you're saying that it's suspicious, and it could mean that he's scum, but not enough that you would want to pursue it further.
do you understand how that looks to me?

[humaneatingmonkey]

so i may need to take a deeper dive into his meta than i have before and try to weed through the subtle differences in play. don't get me wrong -- i don't think passive observation on its own is likely to be enough to sort this slot confidently.

I'm looking forward to it

[humaneatingmonkey]

can anyone who thinks Lemons is town talk me into seeing that angle right now?

[humaneatingmonkey]

I'm less bothered about osuka's hostility than his chainsaw defense of you, Lemons.

[humaneatingmonkey]

i think it will be better if I stay back for the meantime.

[humaneatingmonkey]

This means 552, yeah? You don't think they were just trying to placate you? Because that's what it sorta feels like to me.

What's the point of all this if you don't vote Lemons, Egix?

[humaneatingmonkey]

maybe human eating monkey for his fast about face on me for no good reasons is suspicious - because i didn't do anything to change their mind really.

i don't know what you're saying because even this post is pretty town

[humaneatingmonkey]

heres a scalding hot take

gerain is actually probably going to flip town pr

what's the point of announcing that?

[humaneatingmonkey]

Dunn I'm thinking townlean.

Why

[humaneatingmonkey]

I'm willing to drop everything just to make this guy uncomfortable. VOTE: Dunnstral

[humaneatingmonkey]

I would appreciate more from you, Dunn. I have no idea where you are on each players and the events that came about. Please man. I need to sort you.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I hope I don't

[humaneatingmonkey]

this banana's desperation to read Dunnstral is more motivation than most people have towards life goals i don't believe it

and you're not desperate and having a hard time with this game yourself?

[humaneatingmonkey]

Maybe Lemons is town or I have an exploitable weakness to vulnerability and self-awareness. I also like #679.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I'm now looking at Egix with a very very squint.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I'll be back with a much better view of the game tomorrow.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Good morning

Will Lynch Today
-
bugspray
Egix96

Really Not Sure About These Slots
-
osuka
Dunnstral
InsidiousLemons

Won't Lynch Today
-
geraintm
Umlaut
Andante VFP
T3
Anya

I just have a heavy workday today, so I'll come back in 12 hours or in 24 hours to explain this. We need to be choosing between two candidates now. UNVOTE:

[humaneatingmonkey]

i can't believe even the mod is lurking

[humaneatingmonkey]

maybe not, gerain. I'm gonna try and push Egix or bugspray today if you want in on it.

[humaneatingmonkey]

i'll attempt to be productive tonight, but que sera sera

[humaneatingmonkey]

ok maybe i need to re-read the thread first

[humaneatingmonkey]

Seems like the type of game where at least one scum is lurking

[humaneatingmonkey]

That means nothing because a lot of the players are doing active lurking as well.

This is why lurking is anti-town guys.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Okay let's go. It's less than 3 days before deadline and we haven't really locked into 2 wagons yet. Let's put this game into gear 2. VOTE: bugspray

This doesn't mean I'm done tonight. I'm still trying to put together some thoughts.

[humaneatingmonkey]

i was productive. wait up.

[humaneatingmonkey]

i'm trying to tryhard but I think I can sum up my opinions very concisely in bullet points. i'm never gonna finish if i link every impression, so you can ask that later. but it's good that it's up here so that it can be useful. consider this a collective thing that we can prove/disprove. whatever.

Andante/VFP
• engaged in the game
• transparent and consistent process
• hasn't slipped in perspective
• hasn't demonstrated that they're PR hunting
• isn't incoherently overexplaining in their defense
take: probably town. not gonna consider lynching d1.

Anya
• skirting in the sidelines
• transparent and consistent process
• hasn't slipped in perspective
• i can't characterize their early setup spec as PR hunting
• isn't incoherently overexplaining in their defense.
take: unsure with a slight town bias. not gonna consider lynching d1.

bugspray
• skirting in the sidelines
• surprisingly consistent but opaque process
• hasn't slipped in perspective
• i don't know if i can characterize their early setup spec as PR hunting
• isn't incoherently overexplaining in their defense.
take: unsure. very unsure. dare i say with a slight town bias. i almost want to lynch this for being tough to read, but that's not how you play this game.

Dunnstral
• biggest lurker in this game
• not only is it inconsistent it's also opaque
• hasn't slipped in perspective (probably because they haven't talked)
• the way he interacted with Anya's early setup spec standed out as very specific — like it's PR hunting
• hasn't overexpained anything in their defense (because they haven't talked)
take: unsure with heavy scum bias. this is my "lurker lynch" in d1.

Egix96
• looks engaged, but not really. ("I'm willing to admit, it does feel a bit like he's in commentary mode.")
• transparent but inconsistent process. (very notable thing is that he doesn't move his vote/convictions until it's been seconded by someone else and it doesn't feel like he has his own process.)
• i don't empathize with his perspective
• hasn't demonstrated that they're PR hunting
• isn't incoherently overexplaining in their defense.
take: probably scum. this is one of two of my "probably scum" lynch in d1.

geraintm
• second biggest lurker in the game
• transparent and consistent process (his ground is fucking solid)
• hasn't slipped in perspective (his ground is fucking solid)
• hasn't demonstrated that they're PR hunting.
• isn't incoherently overexplaining in their defense. (again, his ground is fucking solid)
take: disgustingly unsure with a slight town bias. not gonna consider lynching d1.

InsidiousLemons
• engaged in the game
• transparent but inconsistent process
• hasn't slipped in perspective
• hasn't demonstrated that they're PR hunting
• has a habit of overexplaining in their defense, but im not sure if it's incoherent.
take: unsure with a wildcard bias. guy's a good ally if he's town. guy's a dangerous scum if he's scum. almost want to lynch just to flip this slot, but that's not how you play this game.

Ivyeo
• engaged in the game
• transparent and consistent process
• hasn't slipped in perspective
• hasn't demonstrated that they're PR hunting
• isn't incoherently overexplaining in their defense.
take: probably town. not gonna consider lynching d1.

osuka
• looks engaged, but not really (bugs is spot on #220)
• inconsistent and opaque process (hostile, but not really trying to scumhunt. called me scum — DIDNT VOTE ME)
• has slipped in perspective when he chainsaw defended Lemons
• has demonstrated that they're PR hunting (called out gerain as PR, for no good reason)
• has incoherently overexplained in their defenses
take: probably scum. this is one of two of my "probably scum" lynch in d1.

T3
• skirting in the sidelines
• opaque but consistent process
• hasn't slipped in perspective
• hasn't demonstrated that they're PR hutning
• isn't incoherently overexplaining in their defense.
take: unsure with a heavy town bias. not gonna consider lynching d1.

Umlaut
• engaged in the game (when he was here)
• opaque process (keeps his cards close)
• hasn't slipped in perspective
• hasn't demonstrated that they're PR hunting
• isn't incoherently overexplaining in their defense
take: unsure with a heavy town bias. not gonna consider lynching d1

[humaneatingmonkey]

If I can recall correctly, this is the most viable wagon outside the lurkers. People have declared intent to vote here. Prove it. VOTE: osuka

Let's start the toxic road to E-1.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Info gained by flipping the slot of a person I think is scum is better than flipping the slot of someone I'm just unsure about.

[humaneatingmonkey]

you've said nothing that substantially progressed the game

why are you even that attached to the fact that lemons chose to push you instead of gerain? why are you so defensive about it?

your play reeks of scum so far

[humaneatingmonkey]

this is extremely vague, factually questionable, and distinctly accusatory. you haven't backed half of what you said so really barring a decent explanation of most of this, VOTE: hem

oh so you never called me scum but I'm scum now?

[humaneatingmonkey]

please point out where i slipped in perspective. my read on lemons has stayed relatively constant from the beginning of the game and yours is a bit vague if anything, but with this sort of push i can't imagine there isn't at least some degree of hidden motivation behind what you're doing.

your chainsaw defense is evidence of slip in perspective. you've assumed InsiduousLemons had more solid reasons to be town than he really does. more reason that you've soloed a countercase against him with hostility and tried to OMGUS me for it. you say "conftown" is a hyperbole, so now I don't understand your reason even more. you also said gerains was a mislynch. that's corroborating evidence.

I'll get to the incoherent part later. Plus, maybe your response here could prove it even more.

[humaneatingmonkey]

this is the last time i'm going to say this: if you can't fully grasp that saying someone is conftown d1 is a hyperbole, or that I said gerains was a mislynch _very clearly_ in THAT hypothetical, for the sake of the argument, then i don't know what else to tell you than to go read a fucking book, because you really need to learn how to interpret some fucking text before you try to play a game of mafia again.

you slipped again. this paragraph was written in the assumption that I am town. i thought was scum?

[humaneatingmonkey]

either i'm bad town or malicious scum. you need to choose.

[humaneatingmonkey]

im my mind, lemons is town.

this is the problem. how is lemons town in your mind that early in the game? if you can make a very convincing argument that lemons is town beyond a reasonable doubt at that point of the game — so much so that you won't entertain a perspective (even he admits is valid) that he could be scum — then maybe you can convince me it wasn't a perspective slip

[humaneatingmonkey]

bugs if you don't post game-relevant content soon, I will think you're meandering on purpose.

[humaneatingmonkey]

bugspray plays like this. i don't want to attempt to differentiate their meta. i'm not very good at parsing meta-information and applying it to the game.

[humaneatingmonkey]

UNVOTE:

[humaneatingmonkey]

i can already see it. bugspray goes for the quickhammer without sharing their thoughts on it.

[humaneatingmonkey]

o nvm bugspray is in the wagon VOTE: osuka

[humaneatingmonkey]

i've got a long car jounrey tonight and unlikely to be on much tomorrow at all to warn people

what are you warning us from

[humaneatingmonkey]

History of votes, unnecessary. Just do a VC every page, if you can.

[humaneatingmonkey]

i've got a long car jounrey tonight and unlikely to be on much tomorrow at all to warn people

what are you warning us from

it was fairly close to deadline, and if anyone was expecting me to carry on doing vote counts, then i would be posting not a lot...

but you're not warning us from lynching osuka?

[humaneatingmonkey]

this is the last time i'm going to say this: if you can't fully grasp that saying someone is conftown d1 is a hyperbole, or that I said gerains was a mislynch _very clearly_ in THAT hypothetical, for the sake of the argument, then i don't know what else to tell you than to go read a fucking book, because you really need to learn how to interpret some fucking text before you try to play a game of mafia again.

you slipped again. this paragraph was written in the assumption that I am town. i thought was scum?

i don't see how this paragraph explicitly assumes you are town. he's just fighting back against a push. how is this a perspective slip?

he now thinks i'm scum. but in this paragraph, there's an assumption that i'm a bad player (bad town). if i'm misrepresenting his statements, then i'm not bad — i'm scum. he wouldn't say this but relate it to how i'm scum.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I think the point's been proven. Feels too easy to be a scum yeet.

do you think scum elims are supposed to be harder?

[humaneatingmonkey]

i'm kind of surprised to see egix so high up here. what is it about his perspective that you don't empathize with?

As in when Egix has said a lot of stuff that when they posted, I always felt like it was coming from a weirdly synthetic town perspective.
This is a notable feeling I remember I often feel when I see their posts, so I differentiated it as "not emphasizing with his perspective" because it's not really a perspective slip.
I looked at their ISO now and the only thing that I can note was his #540 and "add-ons" to my 1v1s. I felt like "what is he doing?? is this how town would really react right now?" He had a level of confidence about me being town that even I am uncomfortable of.

[humaneatingmonkey]

UNVOTE:

[humaneatingmonkey]

i'll review osuka

[humaneatingmonkey]

p-edit: this is kind of a stretch. osuka's statement is "IF you can't fully grasp..." -- he is once again speaking in hypotheticals. the point he's making reads to me as something like "if you're not scum then you're illiterate, which i know you aren't, therefore scum". you're trying pretty hard to make these "if" statements factually inconsistent.

I've reviewed it. no not really. this is not how he said it was. you can clearly say what he said.

[humaneatingmonkey]

YOU are stretching it

[humaneatingmonkey]

the point he's making reads to me as "if you don't understand, then you're stupid. don't play mafia." because that's exactly what he said.

[humaneatingmonkey]

if you can understand the context of this series of posts, it's to make the case that i'm scum. nothing in this series of posts points towards osuka even considering me as town that would relate to this paragraph. this is the type of thing you only say to someone you think is town.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Yeah. It's tough to fight against their will.

Scum bussing exists. What do you think would have happened if osuka was scum here?

[humaneatingmonkey]

what's the pro-town utility of a rolestopper?

[humaneatingmonkey]

osuka, have you crumbed?

[humaneatingmonkey]

do you have a pt?

[humaneatingmonkey]

i don't believe this claim.

[humaneatingmonkey]

all prs have pts and his modifier will include some sort of neighbor/mason or whatever there.

[humaneatingmonkey]

unless he lied and it's actually another role

[humaneatingmonkey]

VOTE: osuka

[humaneatingmonkey]

Any PT will have daytalk.

[humaneatingmonkey]

UNVOTE: Nevermind, I thought all PRs will have daytalk

[humaneatingmonkey]

They don't. I just made a mistake.

[humaneatingmonkey]

No, that's just a general way of covering roles like neighbor and mason

this is what I remembered and I thought Dunn was zeroing in on the roles available to this game.

I misunderstood that PT and PR are the same

[humaneatingmonkey]

I still want osuka to happen. I'm absolutely convinced that it's a fakeclaim and he's gonna flip scum anyway. VOTE: osuka
I am willing to lynch Dunnstral. I want more time to evaluate Egix. I don't think bugs is a good counterwagon.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I'm sorry if I'm wrong about osuka, but I am unable to see this game from a town!osuka perspective.

[humaneatingmonkey]

im still convinced osuka is scum here and if we let him live, he's gonna be alive day 2 despite TPR claim and I will still want to lynch him.

[humaneatingmonkey]

It seems that Ivy is going for whats popular.

Then what do you think about gerain, Egix, and yourself?

[humaneatingmonkey]

I feel like T3 is trying to avoid me.

VOTE: T3
Talk to me about who's scum!
Are you scum reading Ivy or Anya?

Have you revisited T3?

[humaneatingmonkey]

You guys wanna do Dunn?

[humaneatingmonkey]

VOTE: Dunnstral

[humaneatingmonkey]

is this a game where the mod is our enemy?

[humaneatingmonkey]

I'm also game for Egix, but I still need to reevaluate him

[humaneatingmonkey]

nice mods get pagetops and are diligent vote count keepers. you're anti-town.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Just do Dunn with me

[humaneatingmonkey]

Thanks VFP. This is a good wagon.

[humaneatingmonkey]

cook, also add in VFP's vote on Dunn please so that it's current.

[humaneatingmonkey]

your vote is missing too

[humaneatingmonkey]

Lemons is missing as well?

[humaneatingmonkey]

Not Voting: InsiduousLemons

[humaneatingmonkey]

i should at least reevaluate egix before deadline

[humaneatingmonkey]

Dunn we all want to lynch you. I've counted. You'll be eliminated. I think it's better to claim now and leave some time for discussing your flip.

[humaneatingmonkey]

discussing your claim

[humaneatingmonkey]

so why does literally every tpr have to have access to a pt?

They don't. I just made a mistake.

it's an answer to another question

[humaneatingmonkey]

I think it's obvious what's happening here.

I'll go to sleep. Don't lynch anyone while I'm asleep.

[humaneatingmonkey]

oh my fucking god are you guys really morphing reality just to say I scum slipped

[humaneatingmonkey]

osuka, have you crumbed?

do you have a pt?

i don't believe this claim.

all prs have pts and his modifier will include some sort of neighbor/mason or whatever there.

unless he lied and it's actually another role

VOTE: osuka

all prs have pts and his modifier will include some sort of neighbor/mason or whatever there.

what makes you think that?

Any PT will have daytalk.

UNVOTE: Nevermind, I thought all PRs will have daytalk

so why does literally every tpr have to have access to a pt?

pedit thought so...
was that a scumslip?

maybe scum has informed roles that know something about town roles and hoods/pts.

scum!traffic analyst would be a really cool role tbh

VOTE: hem

They don't. I just made a mistake.

They don't.

s c u m s l i p

No, that's just a general way of covering roles like neighbor and mason

this is what I remembered and I thought Dunn was zeroing in on the roles available to this game.

I misunderstood that PT and PR are the same

just read the whole fucking sequence of events jesus

[humaneatingmonkey]

it's 10 hours and i can hammer if dunn doesn't claim. I'll be awake for the next 10 hours.

[humaneatingmonkey]

votecount #10, day one

Geraintm (1): Umlaut
Bugspray (2): Dunnstral, T3

Dunnstral (6) [E-1]: humaneatingmonkey, VFP, Egix96, Geraintm, Ivyeo, bugspray

humaneatingmonkey (2): InsidiousLemons, osuka
InsidiousLemons (1): Anya

With 12 alive it takes 7 to flip.
(expired on 2021-05-23 09:33:00) until deadline.

wow your first page top!

[humaneatingmonkey]

proud of you cook. please do more like this

[humaneatingmonkey]

damn Lemons, osuka, and bugspray really did try to make that "scumslip" work, despite how obviously wrong it was.

I wonder.

[humaneatingmonkey]

i can vote bugs here, Umlaut. But we need 3 more.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Anya, Ivyeo, VFP, Egix96, who wants to bumrush bugspray?

[humaneatingmonkey]

Bugspray (3): Dunnstral, T3, Umlaut, (humaneatingmonkey)

If bugs isn't viable, I'll stick to Dunn

[humaneatingmonkey]

Bugspray (3): Dunnstral, T3, Umlaut, (humaneatingmonkey), (Ivyeo)
We need two more for the bumrush

[humaneatingmonkey]

i think Dunn is gonna flip town here because I think the scum is osuka, Lemons, and you.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Egix, why do you think it was a slip?

[humaneatingmonkey]

what until much later? bugspray spammed the space in which I could have placed the post in it.

[humaneatingmonkey]

monkey → bugspray strings of posts → monkey. it was a direct answer.

[humaneatingmonkey]

the whole thing that i was talking about was the pr/pt and NOWHERE did I mention anything about scum. saying that it was what I was talking about is FORCING it.

[humaneatingmonkey]

"so why does literally every tpr have to have access to a pt?"
is this a question? yes

"maybe scum has informed roles that know something about town roles and hoods/pts."
is this a question? no.

"They don't. I just made a mistake."
is this an answer to a question? yes.

[humaneatingmonkey]

The Setup
I can guarantee the following:
This setup follows Normal guidelines for roles.
There is only one scumteam. This scumteam is the Mafia.
Any PT will have daytalk.
Scum are multitasking.
Flavor has no effect on the game.

Is it because I mistook PT and PR one and the same? Yes, and this is what I've been talking about.

Is it because Dunn mentioned it in this post:

No, that's just a general way of covering roles like neighbor and mason

And I thought Dunn was hunting for PRs? Yes.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Hem later tried to claim that they were responding to a post from the bottom of the previous page.

Are you really pushing for this Egix? Really? Really you believe this?

#898 - monkey
#899 - bugspray
#900 - bugspray
#901 - bugspray
#902 - bugspray
#903 - monkey

You would really argue that it was MUCH later? Really? Really you believe this?

[humaneatingmonkey]

Then why didn't you push that when it happened?

I wasn't paying attention

[humaneatingmonkey]

May not be a question, but sure as heck could be interpreted as one.

Oh okay. So you really think I would answer "a question that could be interpreted as one" that could have obviously implicated me as scum RATHER than the OBVIOUS QUESTION THAT WAS ASKED OF ME?

Really? Really you believe this?

[humaneatingmonkey]

HEM, what's changed for you here? You're explicitly attempting to gather support for Bugs over Dunnstral now.

I thought your vote on him makes sense that it's better to flip him because it would yield more information — information that is necessary for me because I think there's an actual scum push to force a wagon on me and I want to know if bugs/osuka/lemons is a scum team.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I haven't moved my vote because I thought Dunn could be a valid lynch here as well, so if anyone wants to hammer they can and we can end the day clean. But if there's enough support for a bugs wagon, I will pursue it.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Idk, maybe I'm just being a gullible
I haven't been getting enough sleep to be able to think straight about all this

Then think about it. Because it's an obvious scum move to push that it's a slip and it's only bugs or you that I will believe made a genuine mistake here.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I realized I've been saying lynch when mafiascum wants to move away from this word. I'm very sorry and I'll adjust from now on.

[humaneatingmonkey]

So you think Lemons is scum now?

I've always thought Lemons could be scum but there's not enough information to prove this. His recent push on me was so disgusting that I think I'm convinced now.

[humaneatingmonkey]

[humaneatingmonkey]

deadline is within 6 hours. I can't promise anything.