7! Duh
VOTE: T3
For answering seriously!
SureIn post 12, boxxy wrote:I think you should provide your own answers first.In post 11, ItalianoVD wrote:Tell me about yourselves! I’ve only played with Not_Mafia once and with UNOwen in my second game on site which was like May of last year.
1. What’s your mafia experience?I’ve been playing the wolf variation of mafia since 2006. I’ve played over 20+ games of all types on this site.
2. Do you like playing as town better? Or mafia better?Definitely prefer to play as town more. I can play as scum and have had some epic moments but it’s really not my ideal position. I like trying to figure out the puzzle not already having all the pieces.
3. Is it hard for you to lie? Or can you do it with no problem? Both in real life and in mafia?I can’t lie. It makes me feel terrible so I don’t do it.
Cool cool. Welcome back! I’ve just recently came back from a hiatus. This is my second game back.In post 16, InsidiousLemons wrote:greetings!In post 11, ItalianoVD wrote:1. What’s your mafia experience?
2. Do you like playing as town better? Or mafia better?
3. Is it hard for you to lie? Or can you do it with no problem? Both in real life and in mafia?
1. several years when i was but a Boy (way back in 2014-16); now i'm 20 and returning to the site for the first time since i was 14. i was decently well-read in terms of theory back in the day, and it's coming back to me faster than i thought it would. this is my second game post-hiatus
2. i actually really enjoy playing town! there are definitely elements of both that i like, but i find it much more stressful to play as scum
3. i would say i'm a pretty good liar, both irl and online. i don't enjoy being dishonest but i must admit it can be very useful
We’re in RVS are we not?In post 13, boxxy wrote:CDB why the bloodhail vote?
I don’t know. You tell me.In post 27, bloodhail wrote:3. if i was good at lying, do you think i'd tell you
Have no clue. The no response kinda ruined the attempt at a reaction.
Good to know. Thanks.In post 28, ChannelDelibird wrote:1. Lots of it, but ages ago. I was only intermittently any good, though.In post 11, ItalianoVD wrote:1. What’s your mafia experience?
2. Do you like playing as town better? Or mafia better?
3. Is it hard for you to lie? Or can you do it with no problem? Both in real life and in mafia?
2. I don't hate being scum, but I strongly prefer being town.
3. I'm pretty good at lying, and I blame mafia for it. The key thing about it is that keeping up the facade for extended periods of time drains my energy pretty rapidly, which is why I prefer being town, especially in forum games which take longer.
It’s not really an assumption. RVS is RVS. I more so wanted to know boxxy’s reason for asking. If he was in or out of RVS. It would of made me understand him better.In post 28, ChannelDelibird wrote:In post 13, boxxy wrote:CDB why the bloodhail vote?Why assume the reasoning for my vote instead of letting me answer the question first, Italiano?In post 20, ItalianoVD wrote:We’re in RVS are we not?In post 13, boxxy wrote:CDB why the bloodhail vote?
Okay good. Although for me wanting to get out of RVS is nai. I’ve caught scum before trying to get out of RVS because it’s what town would do. Plenty of town do it as well to so I won’t be able to use this to fully read you, but I’ll keep it mind coupling it with the rest of your play.In post 28, ChannelDelibird wrote:My vote wasn't random. I'm a big believer in getting to the meat of the game as quickly as possible - which is the stated purpose of 'random votes', a convention which arose as the most reliable way to do that - so I always try to do the most useful thing possible with my vote even if it's very early. For that reason, I voted for someone who already had a vote; creating larger wagons quickly is likely to lead to more interesting reactions than an even distribution would. Chose bloodhail over NM because, to my recollection, NM is the only player here with whom I'd played before, so I wanted to start with a player about whom I knew nothing in order to try to get a feel for them as quickly as possible.
Too late. They already did.In post 49, Not_Mafia wrote:RQS is anti-town nobody answer
Why’d you panic?In post 47, InsidiousLemons wrote:full disclosure the bloodhail unvote was stonedposting, i popped into the thread, panicked, realized my mistake and dipped lol. anya's attempted hammer test here was actually an okay idea, and it's a more adventurous play than what i'd expect of her. that's a good thing.
Is preemption really scum indicative? I’ve already explained why I responded to boxxy the way I did. And saying “if you’re town” can be faked by scum. It would be weird for me to say that in thread if we’re scum partners. Because I know I’m town I don’t have to highlight the fact that I am the way scum do. (Even though I just did, curse you.)In post 47, InsidiousLemons wrote:VOTE: Italiano for preempting delibird. and i don't like the "if we're the same alignment" in 19 -- why not just say "if you're town"?
I must have missed it. Why is this being said?In post 47, InsidiousLemons wrote: let me be clear: i don't think anyone should claim D1 until absolutely necessary. this site's meta has become infested with pointless early claims and it's terrible
Umm...In post 57, boxxy wrote:And yet you still haven't answered your own questions despite me asking you too. Curious.In post 56, ItalianoVD wrote: Anyone who doesn’t answer now is anti-town.
I think RQS is nai. Where I believe it becomes pro town or anti-town is in the questioning. There’s two types of questioning for RQS. Questions that can help move the game forward and get true reactions from the playerlist and those that don’t really serve a purpose or possibly challenge people. (i.e. “who’s that in your avatar” or “what’s your favorite food” etc.)In post 58, boxxy wrote:and for ItalianoVD to expand on why he thinks its pro-town.
True true. I’ll make sure to format it better from now on.In post 61, boxxy wrote:Maybe leave the quotes as just quotes then though next time? The pro-town play is to make sure your posts are easy to read.
Ahh got it. I did miss it.In post 66, InsidiousLemons wrote:it was a response to boxxy's suggestion that i'm rolefishingIn post 59, ItalianoVD wrote:I must have missed it. Why is this being said?In post 47, InsidiousLemons wrote: let me be clear: i don't think anyone should claim D1 until absolutely necessary. this site's meta has become infested with pointless early claims and it's terrible
Maybe, maybe not. It depends.In post 66, InsidiousLemons wrote:because i didn't want scum to quicklim town!bloodhail on page 2? if he really was at E-1 that early, wouldn'tIn post 59, ItalianoVD wrote:Why’d you panic?In post 47, InsidiousLemons wrote:full disclosure the bloodhail unvote was stonedposting, i popped into the thread, panicked, realized my mistake and dipped lol. anya's attempted hammer test here was actually an okay idea, and it's a more adventurous play than what i'd expect of her. that's a good thing.youunvote?
I get what you’re saying, but a quick or lol elimination is really scrutinized on this site so those that pushed it through would be looked at pretty heavily on Day 2. Also were you RVS voting?In post 66, InsidiousLemons wrote:we're playing a 9p, which would mean that a town elim followed by a NK would leave us one miselim away from LyLo. being in that situation on D2 with only 2 pages' worth of prior information is a terrible situation for town. keep in mind that i didn't think this through nearly so much at the time, because of my aforementioned inebriation. but i do stand by the unvote in the scenario where bloodhail really was at E-1, because to me, that was the apparent reality of the situation.
Ehh, it’s kind of a loaded question. I think there are variables that would make a towny “seem” like they are preventing discussion. I’d rather not say what those variables could be right now, but if you think about it more I think you’ll get what I’m saying.In post 66, InsidiousLemons wrote:it certainly tends to be, as far as i've seen. what motivation does a town player have to prevent a given player from voicing their opinion/defending themself?In post 59, ItalianoVD wrote: Is preemption really scum indicative?
Of course, but as you see cbd’s responded to it. Boxxy didn’t so there’s that. There are many ways to play this game and to get reactions. Early on I do things to see those reactions. You don’t have a lot to go on, especially if no one knows anyone. Had cbd said “sure it was RVS” I’m telling you it would have made me suspicious, but because of how he checked me for my question and how he gave his explanation not only does that help me sort the slot, but it may help others as well. It sounds like a townie would respond or react. The probability of scum faking it, for me, is low.In post 66, InsidiousLemons wrote:the more we force people to defend themselves on their own, the more we can determine their thought process and logic, and attempt to evaluate what perspective it's coming from. preemption opens the door for the person under pressure to simply copy the reasoning of their defender, and takes useful information away from town.
In post 66, InsidiousLemons wrote:my argument isn't that "if you're town" is town AI, but that "if we're the same alignment" is scum AI. deliberately vague and cautious phrasing like this does indeed more often come from scum, in my experience.In post 59, ItalianoVD wrote:And saying “if you’re town” can be faked by scum.so what if it's weird? we don't know your alignment either way, it makes no difference to us. town doesn't think about what's "weird to say", they think about what's true. maybe it would be weird to your scumpartner, but you can save that for the PT. i don't like this defense at all. as scum, your partner's opinion of you and your actions is irrelevant. "if we're the same alignment" feels like you trying to cover all the options and specifically avoid implying your alignment to try and appear town -- if we really were scumpartners, you'd know that, so there would be no reason to phrase the sentence this way. as you said, town isn't concerned with trying to appear town. so why are you?In post 59, ItalianoVD wrote:It would be weird for me to say that in thread if we’re scum partners. Because I know I’m town I don’t have to highlight the fact that I am the way scum do.
Sheeping is not only a scum play.
Why do you like the vote?In post 79, InsidiousLemons wrote:i don't disagree with this vote
What do you mean by the bolded? Could you elaborate?In post 97, UNOwen wrote:I see what you're saying now.In post 72, InsidiousLemons wrote: i've now typed a whole lot of words about what is ultimately, imo, a minor point. but although i wouldn't have blathered on quite this much unprompted, i do think it's worth remembering -- the most minor differences in phrasing can sometimes be the most telling.Not sure I agree that a town player wouldn't see the phrases as interchangeable but Italiano's response suggests your interpretation is right.Pretty sure I've encountered town players who came across as self-conscious in this way before though, so I'm cautious to read too much into it.
I’m still trying to figure out if his actions are scum motivated or town motivated. I’ll get back to you.In post 97, UNOwen wrote:@Italiano - what are your thoughts on Lemons?
In post 105, ItalianoVD wrote:In an effort to keep my sanity andnotflood this game with back and forth pointlessness I won’t be responding to you. I’ll make the choice when and/or if I do again.
Who would you guess is Lemon’s partner?In post 95, bloodhail wrote:doubt theyre a team tbhIn post 85, T3 wrote:I'm considering just voting out boxxy and lemons and hoping we win the game.
In post 100, Anya wrote:i dunno it feels like he's innocent and wants to win by the power of friendship and teamwork i assumed the apologetic skill tree choice was a personality traitIn post 94, InsidiousLemons wrote:@anya what about italiano's defense feels town to you? this a good faith question
Going back and forth on perception that is pointless. I was trying to get Lemons to understand me, if he scumreads that then there’s nothing I can do but move on and try to figure out the rest of the game. Take from that what you want but I’m not gonna waste time with the back and forth.In post 140, ChannelDelibird wrote:or town who simply has faith that their genuine pursuit of the wincon will shine through before too long anyway?
He does post useful content when there is useful content to post.In post 146, bloodhail wrote:hes not gonna post anything useful
Yeah for now. Policy elims are stupid.In post 152, boxxy wrote:Also are we really going to just let N_M coast like this? I'm tempted to lynch him just to remove dead weight. Allowing such playstyle lets scum sleep, we get to Day 3 and its "well could be N_M but they haven't said jack shit so we can't get a read there."
Spoken like true mafia.In post 161, boxxy wrote:I would rather make a mistake policy elim now, then be forced to make it where its lynch or lose.
This is what I was waiting for you to say.In post 182, boxxy wrote:I find it a bit suspect that Lemons seems to be defending me when many here consider me pretty scummy (being at E-1 for a bit, and E-2 for a while so far). Could be scum trying to build street cred by trying to friend a town.
Forgive the pronouns, I'll try to do better; and this is meant to say they still have yet to engage with bloodhail in a meaningful way when they initially said they were FOS'ing him.
My bad, that was boxxy who said that. Well what I said to you is what is meant to be said to boxxy so if you can just disregard it.In post 192, InsidiousLemons wrote:show me where i said this
In post 189, ItalianoVD wrote:He said Anya is my potential partner, which doesn't make much sense since we've sort of buddied each other. I could see Anya!scum being a white knight, but we can't be partners.
This is what I mean…In post 219, ChannelDelibird wrote:Specifically, the "easy jump onto my wagon was opportunistic" bit. I've reread that part of the thread and that just doesn't look like a reasonable description of what happened; I was only the second vote on you, the first one wasn't all that recent, and nobody else apart from Lemons was really talking about you as scum at all. Indeed, Lemons was actively receiving pushback for making a very similar vote on you to the one that I apparently went on to make "opportunistically". Indeed, you pretty much actively ignored the vote when I made it; it sure didn't seem like it rubbed you up the wrong way at the time, so what's changed?
I mean what is this? It seems like you were just trying to throw anything out there and trying to make it stick. I just didn’t say anything about the vote. Sue me.In post 87, ChannelDelibird wrote:Feels like it's going a little bit far too almost apologise for his lack of townread on me. Like, my 28 isn't exactly framed as demanding that people townread me for what I've been doing (it's a pretty basic behaviour to be describing) but Italiano seems weirdly placatory here.
Oh yeah. It was simply a reaction move. Not for boxxy in particular but for others. I thought and think boxxy was town, but I had question marks about Lemons. Lemons reacted the way town would generally react, but I also thought it was fake and kinda still do.In post 242, UNOwen wrote:You haven't yet explained the boxxy vote.In post 227, ItalianoVD wrote: Anyway any questions I haven’t answered yet?
I’m good where I’m at. Unless cdb gets run up. Also since Not_Mafia is playing the claim should be before the next person puts him at L-1.In post 261, bloodhail wrote:for the record the deadline is in less than 4 days so we should probably be running someone up for a claim
This is weird. Why unvote and then call him out for fishing. What was your reason for unvoting if not to get a claim first?In post 210, boxxy wrote:This is sketch though, why go fishing for a claim?In post 207, UNOwen wrote:Lemons is at E-1 by my count, which means he's dead once N_M get's online. I recommend unvoting so we can at least get a claim.
I’m actually the opposite. I’m toe reading her and want and need to know if she’s in my blind spot. I guess time will tell.In post 266, UNOwen wrote:@Italiano - I was thinking the same about Anya, but her answers to my questions made sense and I ended up thinking I was in a bit of a tunnel
These two games in particular…is the reason I’m questioning.In post 266, UNOwen wrote:The play style difference might just be because she was replacing into our previous game, I don't really have a good comparison for early game behavior.
In post 292, boxxy wrote:Yoo legit though I think Italiano just scum slipped.
I don't think at this point in the game town puts someone at L-1 recklessly.
Especially someone who has said this in the past.
But he claims he wants a reaction from me.In post 264, ItalianoVD wrote:Also since Not_Mafia is playing the claim should be before the next person puts him at L-1.
Doesn't ask for a claim, doesn't say he's decided and wants to execute, just wants a reaction.ItalianoVD wrote: I really wanna see what you have to say about that post boxxy?
If I get hammered and italiano just sleeps till tomorrow, don't trust him if he claims he just miscounted. I do not believe Italiano as town would make a mistake like that at this point.
He's using N_M for plausible deniability.
VOTE: ItalianoVD
Yep I'm happy here. You dun goofed scum
Nervousness?! Come on bruh the framing of that is so wrong it’s ridiculous.In post 329, InsidiousLemons wrote:but italiano's nervousness around running up not_mafia makes me think he could be our magical 1/8.
Tell me what information you gain from a non information slot?In post 329, InsidiousLemons wrote:i think the best way to determine this without sacrificing anyone who's actually contributing would be to flip not_mafia and go from there. i know i said i wouldn't support a policy lim but 7 total posts D1 is abhorrent and the increased potential to gain information makes me think this could be the way to go.
I never said I was 100% giving one. Why’d you assume so?In post 335, boxxy wrote:Still waiting on that readlist Italiano, stop stalling
In post 189, ItalianoVD wrote:I'm gonna leave the rest of reads until later or Day 2.
Well everyone should come up with something better than “policy lim” or “I don’t like that he trolls” or “ Newsflash, you can’t. Scum don’t mind hiding behind policy limbs if it’s on town. The fact that multiple people are saying it makes me suspicious of those saying it. I don’t know what alignment Not_Mafia is but as town he does give content eventually. My defense is simply to say why kill him prematurely when you more than likely will get more content from him as the game progresses.In post 346, InsidiousLemons wrote:way to attack the wording instead of the argument. call it what you want -- hesitancy, reluctance. what i'm saying still holds -- you were curiously cautious of a Not_Mafia elim from the very outset, to the point where you were willing to call boxxy a "true mafia" (163) for suggesting that a policy lim might be preferable early rather than in LyLo. to be clear, i was never a fan of that plan either, but your chainsaw is revving a little louder with every defense of not_mafia you make.
If Not_Mafia is scum he can literally be anyone’s partner. But what if he’s town? Hmm? Either way you don’t get information because he’s a low content player early on.In post 346, InsidiousLemons wrote:if he's scum then that suggests my theory about you two could be worth considering more deeply. i'm not saying we flashtrain you D2, but making one half of a correct solve in this context does give us information.
This was supposed to say… “policy lim” or “I don’t like that he trolls” or “he quickhammers”.In post 355, ItalianoVD wrote:Well everyone should come up with something better than “policy lim” or “I don’t like that he trolls” or “ Newsflash, you can’t.
It doesn’t matter at this point. Everyone has to be on the same page and everyone is townreading everyone and will only compromise on Not_Mafia.In post 361, InsidiousLemons wrote:if we aren't going for n_m then who do you advocate for a lim? i know you want boxxy but are you willing to compromise on anyone else? as bloodhail says the clock is ticking
I think we can do better. Not_Mafia is the easy way and the path of least resistance which is perfect for scum. Why would I be fighting against that? This ain’t wifom, it’s logic. Why would any scum want to make the day’s elimination harder? If there is town consensus on town scum ain’t interfering in that. There’s not that much faking or towncred in the world. This covers me!scum, NM!town and me!town, NM!town. A partnership is just not a thing here. Maybe if you squint your eyes, turn your head and do a back flip, but as a stated already that can be said about any other player when it comes to Not_Mafia.In post 381, InsidiousLemons wrote:p-edit II: you're right that it's a loud defense for so early on in the N_M wagon's life, but i'm not convinced it isn't just him trying to nip momentum in the bud while simultaneously furthering his push on you. italiano's 333 is not a great response to the initial accusation in my eyes. as i said in 329, italiano's 158 is also really weird because there most definitely was useful content to post at that point.