mini normal 2226; who won

[Lukewarm]

Hello all.

I am gonna be vla for the next couple of days, but should then be pretty active following.

VOTE: Gamma

[Lukewarm]

VOTE: Lukewarm for being the temperature of a tauntaun.

VOTE: Alchemist21 no townie would ever subject the rest of town to this pun.

I get a lukewarm pun in about 50% of my games, and I cringe a little every time

[Lukewarm]

VOTE: Lukewarm for being the temperature of a tauntaun.

VOTE: Alchemist21 no townie would ever subject the rest of town to this pun.

I feel lukewarm about this push.

VOTE: Seanzie

ah, a second one on page 1. This might be a first lol

[Lukewarm]

I think Seanzie's caginess is more likely to come from town then from scum.

I also think that Flubber's reaction to the caginess seems bad . I don't think that anyone would read Seanzie's post and actually think they were saying that posting=bad, and it was very obvious what he was actually saying.

VOTE: flubber

[Lukewarm]

Also, happy birthday Umlaut

[Lukewarm]

How does one man who joins so many mafia games never learn.

I think that that might actually be part of the problem tbh

I have heard someone describe it as criminally over gamed -> criminally under focused

[Lukewarm]

A non-ridiculous reading is "there is something in Alchemist's posts that Seanzie didn't like and he's being coy about what exactly" and not "posting = bad," and I have a hard time believing the latter is really what you thought he meant even for a second.

More votes on Flub plz

so I don't think seanzie is literally scumreading someone for posting more. I think they're trying to manufacture a push and doing it poorly. so the only thing they could shade alchemist for was "posting". seems like I'm right too, because in elaborating, they're now saying things that are just...wrong

What do you think of my idea that Seanzie may have been testing to see who would try defending/pocketing me?

That's a 400iq strat that people don't do.

I'd do it.

Pretty sure you play outside the norm of where most players do, so you might not be a good bench mark lol

[Lukewarm]

Datisis feels town to me.

Now that Flubber has explained more, I think their thought process seems genuine, even thought I disagree with their conclusions.

I am not liking that Aristeia keeps asking other people before she votes/unvotes, like she is absolving herself of her votes.

VOTE: Aristeia

[Lukewarm]

I think that's part of the alt gimmick.

Doesn't mean I am willing to let them just avoid having any reads of their own

[Lukewarm]

Doesn't mean I am willing to let them just avoid having any reads of their own

what would you like to talk about?

Any reads you have.

Weak or strong, scum or town, doesn't really matter, but would like for you to have opinions

[Lukewarm]

I like Aristeia's response and read list.

UNVOTE:

Am back from my VLA, and will probably give the game a reread later tonight

atm, I am roughtly at Datisi, Umlaut, Gamma, Aristeia feeling like town

Flubber felt like scum, then wormed back to null again, but then was not a fan of the recent interaction with Titus. Similar to what Alchemist said, it felt like a pocket attempt coming from flubber

Titus is a hard player to read, and want to give her a closer look

T3 is T3

I have zero thoughts about: chaos, meg, vulture. Had to look at the playerlist to see who I was missing

[Lukewarm]

I could do a trustfall without much trouble, but I wouldn't call them townie.

What does this mean?

You would trust fall with someone that you would not call townie?

[Lukewarm]

Had to look at the playerlist to see who I was missing

You double checked and still missed me.

My bad, you should have been a tier of your own. I have mixed feelings about you, with some posts pinging me as scummy and some pinging me as townie. So null, but you distinctly have a presence in the thread, unlike the ones I was referring to there.

[Lukewarm]

Finished my reread.

Just some general thoughts wrt the

Post 34 from Seanzie made perfect sense to me, so it was strange to see Flubber's reaction to it. Seeing all of these posts in a row from Alch pinged me the same way

Spoiler:

Well I can't say I've found scum yet but I've found another Star Wars fan so there's a point for me.

First!

You weren’t first though, T3 was
VOTE: Seanzie
Lim all Liars

How have you been? It's been a while.

First!

You weren’t first though, T3 was
VOTE: Seanzie
Lim all Liars

How have you been? It's been a while.

I’ve been alright

That's good.

VOTE: Lukewarm for being the temperature of a tauntaun.

VOTE: Alchemist21 no townie would ever subject the rest of town to this pun.

I feel lukewarm about this push.

VOTE: Seanzie

How have you been too?

This is a fairly reasonable explanation for that series of posts form Alch though, and until that explanation hit the thread, seanzie suspicions over them were also reasonable imo

Spoiler:

didn't like how buddy-buddy Alchemist was being, a

For context on that, it’s been at least 9 months since I’ve been in a game and the people I was asking how they’ve been are people I played a lot with in the past.

[Lukewarm]

MegAzumarill's one and only post pings me a bit when I looked back at the iso's of the people I had not thoughts on but willing to give them more time in thread post VLA

[Lukewarm]

Chaos also looks worse on a closer look. As of now he has commented on T3, and Flubber, and thats it.

And even with the two of them, he has been stand offish of taking stances. Despite having interacted with T3, I have no idea if he thinks that T3 is townie or scummy? So that leaves Chaos's only read in thread to be flubber.

And, with Flubber, he also held back...

post 71, joins the Flubber wagon with no comment on it what so ever.

Post 101, asks Seanzie for thoughts on the flubber interaction, but still has not voiced any thoughts on it themselves

It is not until 227 that he actually appears to be adding to the case, and that is after I have moved my vote, datsi has said they were starting to get town pings, and Aristeia removed her vote.

This feels like scum, but also never scum with Flubber, so if he does flip scum, flubber is probably lock town imo

VOTE: Chaos

[Lukewarm]

Basically, posts 71 and 101 feel like scum trying to help the wagon pass while also not looking like they are the one leading the push. Asking Seanzie's opinion also felt like a manipulative way to get an extra vote on the wagon.

And then 227 feels like scum realizing that their early day 1 miselim is starting to slip away, and finally stepping in to try and keep it on the table

[Lukewarm]

Me: I see something I found suspicious about Flubber, so I vote him and explain my suspicions

Flubber: Explains his thought process behind the things that I found suspicious

Me: I moved my vote

----

Me: I see something that found suspicious about Aristeia, so I vote her and explain my suspicions

Aristeia: Responds to the thing that I found suspicious, and provides a read lsit

Me: I move my vote

----

Me: I see somethings Chaos has done that I find suspicious, so I vote him and explain my suspicions

Chaos:
~Vote: Luke
~actually I never did anything wrong, and and address the reasons Luke stated to scum read me and
~actually, wasn't Luke being suspicious earlier, when he did this other interaction with Aristeia
~(Of course, I never voiced any opinions on either Luke or Aristeia until Luke started voting me)

[Lukewarm]

Datisis

datsi

[Lukewarm]

Is my vote not a comment on what I think of the wagon?

No

If everyone is jumping off, why would I be so desperate as scum to keep on here? Wouldn't this draw attention to me as it has?

Would you call scum "describing a reason why they scum read the person they are currently voting" as desperate? I didn't, and wouldn't. That is a strange interpretation of my words.

The jump on and off of Aristeia doesn't feel natural to me. Did you scumread her when you voted her in 171?

What does not feel natural to you? I said she did not have reads, and that was worrying to me. She gave a read list, and provided reasonings when asked.

As for other reads I have, Umlaut, Seanzie, Vulture, and Datisi for town, something about Gamma is pinging me, but I can't really put it into words, so I'm ignoring it for now, still think Flubber is scum, the push on Seanzie and his post about mindmelding w/ Titus reads phony.

See, this is what I find strange about your response. One of the things that I said was bothering me was that you don't have reads out there

Spoiler:

As of now he has commented on T3, and Flubber, and thats it.

And even with the two of them, he has been stand offish of taking stances. Despite having interacted with T3, I have no idea if he thinks that T3 is townie or scummy? So that leaves Chaos's only read in thread to be flubber.

And, with Flubber, he also held back...

And you see me make that point. Apparently realize that you should put some reads out out, but then also don't realize that I had a point, and therefore valid reason to pressure you for reads?

There seems to me to be a bit of cognitive dissonance between the omgus voting me reaction (which when coming from town, I find normally comes from a place of feeling like the reasons the person is scum reading you are non-genuine), while also addressing my biggest concern about you in this way.

[Lukewarm]

Dats is my number 1 town read

@Aristeia, is there room for one more in the Datisi fan club?

[Lukewarm]

warmluke

I deserve this

But yeah, I thought something similar with Meg already on my watch list (258)

Not to be the like 4th person to say mind meld this game or anything, but it is feeling like most of your posts are exactly what I am thinking.

[Lukewarm]

wukelarm

are you trying to

pocket me

Desperately

[Lukewarm]

come on luke you can put a bit more effort into it

I was a little worried that if I tried any harder, I would be stepping on Aristeia's toes

[Lukewarm]

come on luke you can put a bit more effort into it

I was a little worried that if I tried any harder, I would be stepping on Aristeia's toes

So, I am taking a different approach, so I can pocket you both at the same time

[Lukewarm]

ok i'm done bullshitting

luke, i do want you to elaborate on that townread bc i just searched "dat" in your iso and all i saw was mysterious "mindmeld" and i know you're supposed to be smart n stuff so like

A part of it is that a lot of your posts align with my own thought process.

But you also appear to be actively hunting, and using your vote for pressure. So far, you have voted all of Flubber, T3, Chaos, Gamma, and Meg, and each time the vote made sense and appeared to have purpose, and none really felt like the kind of votes I expect scum to make.

[Lukewarm]

none really felt like the kind of votes I expect scum to make.

Like, you did not parking your vote on the biggest wagon, and were actually the first person to make comments that lead to the Flubber wagon losing steam.

You have not been making safe votes by putting been voting consensus reads or joining pushes that already have steam - you were the first vote on T3, first vote on Gamma, first vote on Chaos, and the first vote on Meg,

[Lukewarm]

@Meg, current thoughts on Titus?

[Lukewarm]

Titus is my RVS vote, I don't think they have done much either way yet. I don't see a reason to change it until I SR someone else.

This was my original reason I thought your first post was scummy.

Never fear, the cavalry has arrived to

ruin

save the day, by hanging all the

townies

mafia!
Sorry for taking a while to post but as you can see by my snazzy banner, I am on V/LA until sunday.

No strong reads yet, although I feel the drama with flubber is being taken pretty harshly to what resulted from mostly RVS discussion.

VOTE: Titus

This is post 142, RVS was over.

In this post, you made it clear that you read up to this point, closely enough to have opinions on the "drama with flubber," but then you still decided to drop an RVS vote

If anything, your thoughts on the flubber incident aligned with Titus, so it is extra strange to see that be the person you ended up voting.

Now we are on page 14, and you are still happy to stick with an RVS vote?

[Lukewarm]

I am a firm believer in having someone voted at all times (except limlo and similar scenarios) because it can generate discussion (which it already has)

Are you trying to spark discussion on the people you need to be trying to sort?

I don't think that this has sparked any discussion about Titus, and only discussion about your own slot.

I mean, based on 284, it seems like voting Alch or Chaos would be more likely to spark discussion that you are interested in, no?

[Lukewarm]

Yeah, link the scum games you looked at please

[Lukewarm]

T3, do you think your conclusions should be this strong when you looked at exactly 1 scum game?

[Lukewarm]

Although, I am prepared to town read t3 for that post tbh

[Lukewarm]

still shelfing this as Town For Effort for now because idk why scum!t3 does this. i feel like i've heard somewhere that scum!t3 likes to do townreads on townies but this feels a bit unnecessary. idk.

The town read thing I think is more that Scum!T3 just does not give his partners town reads. In the 4 or so t3 scum games I have looked at, the best his partners have ever gotten was null I believe.

But yeah, I cannot imagine scum!T3 going to this much effort to make a town read, when he could just as easily just call you a gut town read, or agree with my reasons that I just gave, or come up with something else from this game. Digging into 3 of your past games and counting the number of times you quote people in each seems like a lot of wasted effort for scum!T3.

[Lukewarm]

still shelfing this as Town For Effort for now because idk why scum!t3 does this. i feel like i've heard somewhere that scum!t3 likes to do townreads on townies but this feels a bit unnecessary. idk.

I agree with you, scum very rarely metadive anyone because they have no need to and don’t feel like spending the energy reading other games.

I would not be surprised to see scum doing a meta dive to justify a scum read, but this is for a day 1 town read lol

[Lukewarm]

@Alchemist, thoughts on the chaos and the meg scum reads going around?

[Lukewarm]

After a meta skim on Datisi I'm comfortable locktowning him.

I'm ok with

Datisti Gamma T3 Lukewarm Flubber all being town.

All the people above, please suggest my tier 2 townies tyia

I don't know what you are saying here, can you rephrase?

[Lukewarm]

The names I have listed are my locktowns.

I want y'all to fill out the no lim pool.

Then we go to town and axe murder someone.

I see. This is about where I am at (sperate lines are sorted, but each line is not sorted)

Town

Datisi, T3

Better then null

Aristeia, Gamma Emerald, Umlaut

Null

Seanzie, Titus
Vulture, Alchemist21

Worse then null

Flubbernugget

Scum

MegAzumarill, ChaosOmega

I think that both Meg's and Chaos's responses to suspicions were pretty bad

[Lukewarm]

I have a strong preference to a Chaos > Meg elim day 1.

I think that they are both about equally scummy, but Meg having actually no opinions in thread means that we don't get any associatives from a Meg flip.

[Lukewarm]

I have a strong preference to a Chaos > Meg elim day 1.

I think that they are both about equally scummy, but Meg having actually no opinions in thread means that we don't get any associatives from a Meg flip.

Relatable opinion. If there was a choice between those two, I'd see your point. It's Flubber v Meg though and a scum vote is better than a town one.

I think that we can make Chaos happen.

Datisi and Ari both voted Chaos already, and I have not seen anything from them to think that their reads there have changed.

You+me+Datisi+Ari is already the same number of people currently voting Meg, so that pivot seems to still be on the table from my pov

[Lukewarm]

We still have over a week on the dead line, so I am not really ready to compromise vote

[Lukewarm]

Pagetop counter

Tris -------- 7
Luke ------- 3
T3 --------- 3
Dats ------- 3
Alchemist --1

I must say that the fact that we are all losing to the mod is a bit sad... smh

Spoiler:

especially a mod who has page top failed a couple of time so far

i'm just going to leave that there. i don't know why i thought i was going to get a pagetop lol

ok, this is embarrassing

<3 you tris

[Lukewarm]

Who said we must use all the time? Limit crumb potential and spam.

I did not say that we had to use the whole time. I just said that I am not inclined to compromise yet.

[Lukewarm]

Is my vote not a comment on what I think of the wagon?

No

Wrong, it means I support it. Better luck next time.

The thing I said was that you appeared to be trying to be on wagon without appearing to be leading the push.

Ie, scum trying to help a miselim happen without being the person people look at when the elim flips town.

So, no. Your empty vote on the wagon does not really work as a counter point

[Lukewarm]

vla for 6 days, something happened rl

Hope everything is okay

[Lukewarm]

I am becoming worried that this game is stagnating :/

[Lukewarm]

Maybe.

Yeah, it is quiet, but also a large number of players seem to still have their votes parked on a wagon from like page 4, none of seem to be actively trying to pressure there anymore.

And then another chunk of the players are parked on the VLA player.

[Lukewarm]

Thank you tris, for that well timed mod post lol

[Lukewarm]

Hello Mathblade!

[Lukewarm]

So, I was just like checking to see if Math has had any games with T3, or if I was going to have to explain that T3 is T3.

Found one, was looking to see how T3 T3 was that game -- he was very T3 btw

Spoiler:

Murder panicking at A50 analysis.

Catching up.
Mcs response to A50 gut pinged me the same way and I think Titus gets townpoints for this. VOTE: MURDERCATpedit: Hammer?

I believe it is. he was E-3 in the last VC, then Toog, slimer and you

Fuck

I accidentally lolhammered a scumreadin my first game.. now this

@T3: I don't see how you "accidentally" hammered when you had a P-edit suggesting you did see that MC was @E-1

My reaction was like: Hammer? [SUBMIT]
2 seconds later
WAIT THAT WAS HAMMER

So, like, yeah Mathblade has seen T3 do things like this.

But, also, I saw Toog's response to the situation, and found it quite funny

Spoiler:

Do you have a game where you did townie things and got town read for them, T3?

[Lukewarm]

In the game you linked I was scum and did a skim just enough to seem Townie so as to get footing wet.

Soon as T3 claimed informed role cop he was getting shot n2 almost certainly. I reactioned a few times to confirm T3 rolecop then bam dead. I legit did not care what T3 was gonna say because he was gonna be dead.

In this one I am town and do not put up with shit like that. I want a chance to read and find scum.

Maybe my last post came across the wrong way.

Like I said, I started with "do I need to explain to Math who T3 is" in order to explain that T3 can still be town, despite making posts like that. Because T3 is town this game.

Then grabbed the quotes to be like "look Math, here is T3 posting around someone close to getting eliminated, and this was definitely town T3"

Got hard sidetracked by laughing at the Toog post.

Looking back, I think it does come across like I am saying you are faking not knowing how T3 plays. Not my intent

[Lukewarm]

My intent is more that independent of T3’s alignment he shouldn’t do it. That’s what policy means. It’s a vote that is policy until I catch up and I want to be able to do so.

What do you make of your chaos wagon and reactions or lack thereof?

I still prefer the Chaos flip, and feel like all of Dats, Ari, and Titus have voiced a scum read there, and honestly unsure why they all decided to jump to Meg over Chaos. But, I think that Meg also is looking like a scum flip, so not the end of the world I guess.

[Lukewarm]

I am more furstrated with all of the people who decided to park on Flubber, and do not appear to be weighing in on the various other pushes very much

[Lukewarm]

There is a Prism here

Hello

[Lukewarm]

Prism, can you elaborate on your scum read on me?

My experience with you reading me before, was to be so sure that I was town that you were willing to "eat Hectic's oldest athletic shoe boiled in a pot of grape Kool-Aid" if I flipped scum.

So, it is surprising this game to see you show up and just be wrong smh

[Lukewarm]

Realtime interaction is lacking a bit+clearly improvised at points rather than something he's been chewing on only to finally be given voice.

Unsure what part of this results in a scum read tbh

Is "clearly chewing on" something, for it to "only to finally be given voice" something that you expect from town me?

[Lukewarm]

What do you not buy?

Now I am confused. If the scummy thing that I was improvising, or that I was holding back? I thought you were implying that I usually hold back, which I don't think that I do, and that is why I questioned it

Also, what gives you the impression that I was holding back? I was VLA until post 250. I gave the game a reread, and put my thoughts out about my reread almost immediately

[Lukewarm]

(I can easily see your ISO before my replace-in going either way; I am significantly more intrigued by why it took me voting you to get you to show up)

That is definitely not what happened ....


I slept most of the day today due to migraines. Woke up, and started catching up with all of my games.

[Lukewarm]

As soon as I realized you were here, I started trying to interact with you

[Lukewarm]

My vote came in seeing that you were posting elsewhere, and you have been akin to a puppy in your eagerness to interact with certain players you respect. Perhaps I didn't earn yours in Forest Fire?

Yes, hello. Am puppy wanting to interact with you

Prism, can you elaborate on your scum read on me?

My experience with you reading me before, was to be so sure that I was town that you were willing to "eat Hectic's oldest athletic shoe boiled in a pot of grape Kool-Aid" if I flipped scum.

So, it is surprising this game to see you show up and just be wrong smh

There is a Prism here

Hello

See here. Me greeting you, and also joking around with you

[Lukewarm]

Like, as soon as I knew you were here lol

[Lukewarm]

Posting elsewhere was what I was referencing+prompted the vote, will revisit timeline later. I appreciate the responses in any case.

Maybe look back at what ever made you think that tbh

You replaced in about 11pm my time.

I slept from like 6pm my time, until about 12:30 my time due to migraines.

Logged on, and started checking around. For reference, I am currently alive in 3 games.

I was posting in this one, trying to interact with you in less then 30 mins from waking up from my migraine coma, which is when I first realized you were here lol

[Lukewarm]

I slept from like 6pm my time, until about 12:30 my time due to migraines.

Yes, this is a terrible time to sleep.

Yes, this means I am going to be up all night,

Yes, you should feel pity for me

[Lukewarm]

I think that this makes Prism town tho.

I feel like Town!Prism starts with a Lukewarm iso, and that scum!Prism doesnt?

Like, her one and only game with me, I was so townread that it hurt, so I don't think that scum!Prism starts with me as their target to try and get a fake scum read / push a miselim. But I also, tunneled Prism somewhat hard that game, so she also would not think of me as an easy pocket target either I don't think.

But I could see town!Prism thinking "town!Luke was obviously town in our last game, so lets iso him to see if it is the same this time"

[Lukewarm]

Luke you are adoorbs and so naive I just want to hug you.

You are a stranger

[Lukewarm]

Can anyone explain what makes their current vote a better flip then Chaos?

I feel like Chaos is super scummy, but there is currently only 2 people voting him.

If you don't want to vote him, sure, don't vote him, but can you also drop a line on why either, chaos is townie, or your current vote is scummier?

[Lukewarm]

I don't think it makes sense as town!prism, it feels like scum!prism entered, saw the top two wagons were scum!prism + scum!meg and decided to try to powerwolf and take control of the thread.

I guess my question here, is why would she try to take control of the thread, but attacking/voting me?

I am pretty sure I am one the most universally town read players in the lobby. Can't think of anyone who scum reads me atm other then Chaos, the person I am pushing.

I feel like there are way easier people to try and pivot the thread onto

Why not go after Chaos? Or Vulture? Or Umlaut? Or Titus? Or you?

Those all seem like easier people to pivot to then me, right?

[Lukewarm]

610 was posted 9 minutes before Prism's post.

It feels like Prism is stating that it is unthinkable that we are even considering Meg as an elimination option due to 610.

This is silly because

1) 610 was just posted - nobody even has had a chance to respond to it.
2) Prism has just replaced in and has no idea why we are voting Meg nor a real read on her.

There is an edge here that feels like an agenda to me. I don't think Town!Prism would enter the thread with this much certainty.

This is a good point tho.

[Lukewarm]

@Prism -- can you do Meg's iso next, and give us your read on that slot?

[Lukewarm]

Just like, where I am at.

I still think that both Meg and Chaos are scummy, but I my preference for chaos is falling away.

Meg has gained some associatives recently, more in how other people (and not just prism) have interacted with the slot then just their recent read list, and the lack of meg associaives was the main thing pushing me towards flipping chaos first.

[Lukewarm]

In your theory, do you think that her push on me was supposed to work?

Or are you saying that she scum read me to get a town read, to then pivot to someone else?

[Lukewarm]

Was I being pocketed >.<

[Lukewarm]

Via scum read X.X

[Lukewarm]

I am considering moving my vote to meg, which, I

know

.

I was the one saying Chaos>Meg, and now people are moving my way, but yeah.

x.x

[Lukewarm]

I am considering moving my vote to meg, which, I

know

.

I was the one saying Chaos>Meg, and now people are moving my way, but yeah.

x.x

what's your opinion on the newer stuff that meg's posted?

Their read list in 509 578 felt made up.

The exact single line on each and every player I think is part of what makes it seem manufactured, because I feel like the average player actually has lots and lots of thoughts on some slots, but then not very many thoughts on others. So, the single line on each feels more like someone trying to manufacture a read list.

And even following that, it has taken questions for Meg to expound on things. And the way they have expounded, feels more like a conversation in abstraction then how they feel about each player they are talking about. Like, why each action could be read the way they read them in the read lists, as opposed to what they think about each player.

I'm fine to be today's mislim but I would like to discuss my analysis more in depth, especially when more people are online.

Try to curb your trigger happy hammering and not cut the day short, I have more to say but the discussion will take some time.

This line did nothing for me, and looks like just trying to buy time, and does not give me town feels

[Lukewarm]

I want to flip meg, because I think that they are scummy, and they also have associatives now. And ari is making me paranoid wrt prism

If meg is scum, we flip scum.

If meg is town, I can sheep Prism for the rest of the game.

Win win

VOTE: Meg[/m]

[Lukewarm]

VOTE: Meg

[Lukewarm]

oh, something pings me as weird about lukewarm calling meg scummy earlier, but only voting them now. even though they made no new posts from back then to now. i dunno if it's related to the vulture rising wagon, it might be, who knows. moreso a note for me for later.

I mean, it partly is.

My top scum reads are chaos and meg, and I want to elim in those 2 personally.

I had a preference for chaos, but thought meg was also a good choice. that preference has gone away due to other slots interaction with the meg wagon

Am surprised and slightly suspicious of a random new counter wagon forming on vulture all at once.

[Lukewarm]

oh, something pings me as weird about lukewarm calling meg scummy earlier, but only voting them now. even though they made no new posts from back then to now. i dunno if it's related to the vulture rising wagon, it might be, who knows. moreso a note for me for later.

Curious what the implications you are worried about here tho?

That I am scum with vulture, and that meg is town? Because in that case, I guess could have easily transitioned to the meg wagon earlier when titus urged me to.

Unless, I guess the scum team is excatly me+Vulture+Meg, and I think vulture is the stronger partner?

[Lukewarm]

I'm super disengaged but I think Prism v Ari is tvt.

VOTE: vult
I'll sheep.

Who are you sheeping here?

Neither Prism nor Ari are voting for vulture atm.

[Lukewarm]

I want to flip meg, because I think that they are scummy, and they also have associatives now. And ari is making me paranoid wrt prism

If meg is scum, we flip scum.

If meg is town, I can sheep Prism for the rest of the game.

Win win

VOTE: Meg[/m]

What associatives do you think exist with Meg?

At this point, Meg has given a full read list, and thoughts on most of the slots, and most of the slots have interacted with the wagon. So she has associatives with most slots at this point imo

[Lukewarm]

I'm super disengaged but I think Prism v Ari is tvt.

VOTE: vult
I'll sheep.

Who are you sheeping here?

Neither Prism nor Ari are voting for vulture atm.

People voting for Vulture.

(Fixed it)

Okay, but generally when town is sheeping, they have like, a strong town read that they are sheeping....

Not just sheeping the most recent wagon gaining steam...

[Lukewarm]

mind answering my q from 908?

My answer before kind of included posts after that.

615 is a nothing post
620 is a nothing post

628 is a LOT of words to say "Read list was shortned, can elaborate on anything you ask me about"

726 is part of the "feels more like a conversation in abstraction" I mentioned before

And partly feels like something I have seen 1 other newbie scum do (grandpamo, in aliensitter) where they made their points really extra long winded to get people to kinda glaze over and skim past it.

[Lukewarm]

I hate if I was scum, why wouldn't I do X arguments? It's a question that's really a way for people to defend themselves without actually being townie. There's so many reasons why people do something. It's not like scum are going to say "yes you got me" to any response anyway.

If this is wrt to me and Dats, I am trying to get a better understanding of his worry, because it did not make sense to me

[Lukewarm]

even talking about them becoming your preferred vote, but you didn't vote them.

Also, about this. moment they were my prefered vote, I voted them.

I started with them being scummy, but chaos was my preferred vote.

Then, it got to the point where it was about equal.

Then, I saw the vulture counter wagon pop up from no where, and making sure one of my top scum reads was a viable wagon was enough to push my vote over

[Lukewarm]

I think Prism's read of Vulture is accurate regardless of Prism's alignment.

GREAT

SO MAYBE

ACTUALLY GO TO BAT FOR IT, OR LET ME WITHOUT CRYING

JESUS FUCKING CHRIST POOKY

First off they’re probably not Pooky

Second off stop outing alts if you think that’s who they are

How confident are Meg/Alch scum to you Ari?

Pooky was also my first guess. Similar username and avatar to another Pooky alt plus online at the same time as Pooky.

You literally quoted a post that says that you should not speculate on alts, and respond to it by speculating on the alt...

[Lukewarm]

Also, using one flip to check someone based on their read accuracy rarely works. Genuine can be wrong.

It may not be the same for math, but for me it is nore really about read accuracy

First, and foremost, I think Meg is scummy.

But after that, I don't think Ari and Meg are ever partners here. So a

scum meg flip

would make me more

confident in a ari town read

.

And on the other hand, I agree with ari's analysis that scumPrism would not need to enter the thread the way that she did if Meg was not her partner, so a

town meg flip

would make me more

confident in a prism town read

[Lukewarm]

Still not crazy about Lukewarm. He responds to my last post in 432 taking a snipe at the most snipe-able part but doesn't respond to the substance of the post.

To be frank, when my top scum read decides to omgus scum read me back, I don't think it is all that beneficial for me to engage in a 1v1 with that person directly. I stopped feeling like I need to convince you of anything

If you have like, a direct question for me, shoot, but I am not gonna dig through your scum case on me and respond to all of your points. That would only clog the thread

If someone else looks at Chaos's earlier posts, and also has a question for me, they can also feel free to ask me

[Lukewarm]

I'm a bit lost and trying to find something intelligent to say, but I saw this

To be frank, when my top scum read decides to omgus scum read me back, I don't think it is all that beneficial for me to engage in a 1v1 with that person directly.

and found it absolutely hilarious given how my last game with Luke went

Well, I definitely learned that it did not help

[Lukewarm]

Although, even in that game, I don't think I spent a ton of time sitting through their case on me, and really just drowned the tread with my own case / tunnel.

I spent a lot of time trying to convince the rest of the thread, and was getting frustrated because no one else saw what I saw. This game, I feel like a good percentage of the thread agreed with me.

[Lukewarm]

I have returned home from a busy couple of days.

My schedule is a lot calmer for the for seeable future, and I am ready to

openwolf

lead the town to victory.

This day should end. Like soon.

I believe we have reached the point where the day dragging on is detrimental. Because, what are we gonna get at this point, before we get some concrete info (flips)

More of Titus and math talking in code making everyone's eyes galze over?
More of Math and Gamma having a contest to see who can be more offended of the other?
More of Ari and Prism getting upset (either by ari withdrawing, or by prism getting snippy)
More of Meg's mega-bloated scum posts?

Because that seems like all I have seen in the last like 24 hours, and I don't think that any of it really helps us win.

Lets elim someone, and get some concrete info to actually spark discussion in new directions!

We were close to that point before, but put on the breaks due to the rep ins needed to catch up, but they caught up now

[Lukewarm]

VOTE: vult
I'll sheep.

@T3, vote meg, and sheep me! (Or dats, or ari, or math) instead of just vaguely sheeping thread momentum

I just want to end this day before I have to inform people about restless leg syndrome or the history of torture as a political investigation tool.

@Titus, this is me now! Lets GOOOOOOOOO!!. Vote meg

Thats enough for a hammer, but any of Prism, Umlaut, Alch, Gamma, or even Chaos is welcome to speed it up by joining this juicy wagon of justice

[Lukewarm]

@Luke why do you treat scenarios where you’re scum so charitably here? If you’re town you know that’s not the case, so I don’t get why it feels like you’re honestly discussing that possibility.

Because I think that Dats is town, so I assume that the concern is genuine, even if incorrect. So, I wanted to figure out where the concern was coming from

[Lukewarm]

Vote Meg!
Vote Meg!
Vote Meg!

[Lukewarm]

I thought you had some specific associatives in mind.

I put the strongest one, in my mind in 1003, but most slots have associatives with the meg slot at this point.

In general though, I find talking about preflip associatives in a lot of detail is actually anti town

[Lukewarm]

I find talking about preflip associatives in a lot of detail is actually anti town

By "I find," I mean that Bingle told me that explicitly in one game, and once he said it it felt right.

[Lukewarm]

hm. with prism actually voting meg, i am this close -><- to calling for a flashwagon on alch

Sorry, I took the openwolf position already.

Try again tomorrow

[Lukewarm]

anyway, i'm not in the mood so i will try not to open this game until tomorrow morning, more likely afternoon. try to not kill anyone until i'm back. or do, i kinda don't care right now.

Sorry -- I am actively trying to kill someone before then

[Lukewarm]

Don't you find it odd that it's virtually an all town wagon on Meg

have i missed 4 innocent child announcements somewhere?

also, if you think that the wagon on meg is currently mostly town, nobody is defending them, but they're not going through... how does that point to "meg is town, and scum doesn't wanna get their hands dirty (even though two of them are currently ~possible counterwagons)" as opposed to "meg is scum, and scum is stalling and praying that the wagon doesn't end up happening"?

At this point if Meg flips Red Titus is a good candidate for their partner.

Says the other person not hammering the meg wagon sitting at e-1.

Come on, hammer. Get the cred

[Lukewarm]

This showed up in my p-edit: I’m still reading through and won’t change my vote for any reason until I’m done.

Okay, hopefully T3's got my back, and will come in clutch with the hammer on Meg!

[Lukewarm]

Anyway, I'd been starting to scumread Luke for a while now, a lot of their pots feeling very vague and not well reasoned, this flashhammer push does nothing for this.
I'd advise against keeping Luke in the townbin, and putting him under some scrutiny.
I'd also like to add that I feel if the Chaos/Luke engagement is S/T, luke would be the scum there.
I was going to put out a megapost about it near DL, but doesn't look like I'll have time to write it.

Feeling Vulture/Luke/???? as a scumteam.

Just try to look into the lukewarm spot.

Oh my, a second omgus scum read in 1 day?

[Lukewarm]

Actually I think I’ll hold out hope since I think Vulture actually stands a better chance to flip scum over Meg

Even if you think this, do you think it has a better chance of ever being the flip today?

I don't think you have the votes.

I want to push out Meg currently.

Dats is on meg, but considering Alch

Ari seems set in their solve.

Vulture does not have the votes rn

[Lukewarm]

Lukewarm: likes to move around their vote, clash with Chaos appears to be Town on town Imo, mainly coming from a disparity in approach to votes, slight townread

I think the Chaos/Luke is T/T

Meg pegs me as town. Every other post about me is explaining the town read.
->
I start pushing for their elimination

Anyway, I'd been starting to

scumread Luke for a while now,

I was going to put out a megapost about it near DL, but doesn't look like I'll have time to write it.

Actually, I have been scum reading luke for a while, and just kept it from ever apperaing in the thread.

Also, I have a great case, but you guys will only ever see it if you put on the breaks and don't elim me.

Please yeet

[Lukewarm]

Gamma, be the hero

[Lukewarm]

Taking a page top before i go!

Here we go!

@ anyone off Meg's wagon

If meg really has been "scum reading luke for a while" do they really say this when they hit E-1, instead of immediately outing their concern incase the hammer is eminent?

Town meg was more worried about getting the page top before they died, then outing their pocket scum read?

[Lukewarm]

I was actually going to start writiting the megapost as I checked to see you had started the flashhammer.

They even claim to have been logged on, specifically to type up the mega post when they saw the push

[Lukewarm]

Taking a page top before i go!

Here we go!

@ anyone off Meg's wagon

If meg really has been "scum reading luke for a while" do they really say this when they hit E-1, instead of immediately outing their concern incase the hammer is eminent?

Town meg was more worried about getting the page top before they died, then outing their pocket scum read?

I was actually going to start writiting the megapost as I checked to see you had started the flashhammer.

They even claim to have been logged on, specifically to type up the mega post when they saw the push

@ Titus, I will stop posting repeatedly, but I very much would like you to look at this very specific thing and tell me your thoughts.

imo, this is pretty damning that the "I have been scum reading luke for a while" line is a lie.

[Lukewarm]

Titus do you still think Luke is townblock material?
I feel like the way he’s acting is very suspicious if Meg is town, and doubly so if Vulture is scum on top of that

This is silly gamma.

I reach near universal town read, minus exactly my top scum read and ~maybe~ prism, but am decidedly a consensus town read.

I see my partner get 4 votes, and panic swap to the Meg wagon.

Then like 16 hours later, both titus and math move away from vulture, and vulture's wagon is dissipating, and down to just a couple votes.

I also see the thread building up tension with Prism in particular getting pretty tilted and ari withdrawing and settling into a solve that does not involve me or vulture

So, in that moment I decide it is time to hard openwolf to shut down the thread that is actively devolving, and to save my partner... whose wagon is already falling apart on its own... and is not the biggest wagon.


Like, even if you think Meg is town (they are not), I am pretty sure I am currently being about as obvtown as can be

[Lukewarm]

Also as a PR I'd still wait for intent to claim. Good to give it just in case.

Hey, you eeked out another page top.

Congrats

[Lukewarm]

ari withdrawing and settling into a solve that does not involve me or vulture

Oh yeah, and settle into a push that disproves Ari's solve, so would force them to start hunting again

[Lukewarm]

I've already said that the flashhammer push on me wasn't what originally caused my concerns. Why are you so against the idea of someone looking into your slot? Why would being consensus town read d1 absolve you of ever having suspicions again?

Things for people to think about this night phase.

Was not talking about your scum read. Was talking to gamma.

[Lukewarm]

MegAzumarill (5): Datisi 286, Aristeia 327, Vulture 456, Lukewarm 905, MathBlade 991, Alchemist21 1130

That is 6 names, and is indeed e-1.

The 5 confused me, and I was hunting for where I miscounted lol

[Lukewarm]

Hey my stomach feels like shit. Not in the mood to read everything posted and will catch up later maybe.

Did anyone ask me a question or anything?

As long as you are okay with Meg being at e-1, with an intent to hammer in place, I think you are good.

If you have a problem with that, now is really the only time to speak up (please no)

[Lukewarm]

Damn, you beat me to it

VOTE: chaos

[Lukewarm]

Why do you think a lot of naked votes happened start of today versus discussion of the flip?
I expect RVS d1 not D2.

I get that everyone here is mentioned as possible scum EoD yesterday but I don’t like the naked votes and I don’t like how weird that kill is. Going to be ISOing T3

Chaos was in my top two scummiest players list day 1, so now they are #1 on that list, so my vote has moved back. Chaos has not really done anything to change that opinion since I voiced it before. I would not call that an RVS vote.

As for T3, I think that surprisingly, he was the most widely town read player in the game Day 1. I had all but town locked him over his dats meta dive.

Why do you think that T3 was a strange kill?

[Lukewarm]

I feel pretty strongly that you are town Titus, but I have no idea what you are trying to say right now

[Lukewarm]

I feel pretty strongly that you are town Titus, but I have no idea what you are trying to say right now

Or for a good chunk of Day 1 with all of the star wars talk.

Like, I look at your posts and think "I don't know what this means, but I think that it is town"

[Lukewarm]

Oh look I'm getting wagoned. I could jump on Chaos if it's him or me but I haven't seen any good reason to suspect him aside from "read this other game to see his meta" which I'm just not going to do.

I really don’t like the fact me and a top scumread are both thinking it’s a weird kill so maybe it’s just not?

This is a very weird line of thought. Why on earth would someone else thinking it's a weird kill mean it isn't one, scumread or not? What exactly is the connection here?

@Umlaut

Also, he did respond to these, but his iso is 9 posts long, so I feel like you can manage to find them yourself to see his defense/counter argument

Spoiler:

Chaos also looks worse on a closer look. As of now he has commented on T3, and Flubber, and thats it.

And even with the two of them, he has been stand offish of taking stances. Despite having interacted with T3, I have no idea if he thinks that T3 is townie or scummy? So that leaves Chaos's only read in thread to be flubber.

And, with Flubber, he also held back...

post 71, joins the Flubber wagon with no comment on it what so ever.

Post 101, asks Seanzie for thoughts on the flubber interaction, but still has not voiced any thoughts on it themselves

It is not until 227 that he actually appears to be adding to the case, and that is after I have moved my vote, datsi has said they were starting to get town pings, and Aristeia removed her vote.

This feels like scum, but also never scum with Flubber, so if he does flip scum, flubber is probably lock town imo

VOTE: Chaos

Basically, posts 71 and 101 feel like scum trying to help the wagon pass while also not looking like they are the one leading the push. Asking Seanzie's opinion also felt like a manipulative way to get an extra vote on the wagon.

And then 227 feels like scum realizing that their early day 1 miselim is starting to slip away, and finally stepping in to try and keep it on the table

Me: I see something I found suspicious about Flubber, so I vote him and explain my suspicions

Flubber: Explains his thought process behind the things that I found suspicious

Me: I moved my vote

----

Me: I see something that found suspicious about Aristeia, so I vote her and explain my suspicions

Aristeia: Responds to the thing that I found suspicious, and provides a read lsit

Me: I move my vote

----

Me: I see somethings Chaos has done that I find suspicious, so I vote him and explain my suspicions

Chaos:
~Vote: Luke
~actually I never did anything wrong, and and address the reasons Luke stated to scum read me and
~actually, wasn't Luke being suspicious earlier, when he did this other interaction with Aristeia
~(Of course, I never voiced any opinions on either Luke or Aristeia until Luke started voting me)

Is my vote not a comment on what I think of the wagon?

No

If everyone is jumping off, why would I be so desperate as scum to keep on here? Wouldn't this draw attention to me as it has?

Would you call scum "describing a reason why they scum read the person they are currently voting" as desperate? I didn't, and wouldn't. That is a strange interpretation of my words.

The jump on and off of Aristeia doesn't feel natural to me. Did you scumread her when you voted her in 171?

What does not feel natural to you? I said she did not have reads, and that was worrying to me. She gave a read list, and provided reasonings when asked.

As for other reads I have, Umlaut, Seanzie, Vulture, and Datisi for town, something about Gamma is pinging me, but I can't really put it into words, so I'm ignoring it for now, still think Flubber is scum, the push on Seanzie and his post about mindmelding w/ Titus reads phony.

See, this is what I find strange about your response. One of the things that I said was bothering me was that you don't have reads out there

[sp//oiler=]

As of now he has commented on T3, and Flubber, and thats it.

And even with the two of them, he has been stand offish of taking stances. Despite having interacted with T3, I have no idea if he thinks that T3 is townie or scummy? So that leaves Chaos's only read in thread to be flubber.

And, with Flubber, he also held back...

[/sp//oiler]

And you see me make that point. Apparently realize that you should put some reads out out, but then also don't realize that I had a point, and therefore valid reason to pressure you for reads?

There seems to me to be a bit of cognitive dissonance between the omgus voting me reaction (which when coming from town, I find normally comes from a place of feeling like the reasons the person is scum reading you are non-genuine), while also addressing my biggest concern about you in this way.

[Lukewarm]

Mostly cried and had paranoid thoughts about Datisi being a scumbag who's playing with my heart.

I actually had a similar worry during the night phase

But, my thinking requires a confirmation in scum!chaos, so I was holding off voicing the concern until after a chaos flip

[Lukewarm]

Mostly cried and had paranoid thoughts about Datisi being a scumbag who's playing with my heart.

I actually had a similar worry during the night phase

But, my thinking requires a confirmation in scum!chaos, so I was holding off voicing the concern until after a chaos flip

Or I guess, until it looked like chaos was gonna flip today.

[Lukewarm]

Mostly cried and had paranoid thoughts about Datisi being a scumbag who's playing with my heart.

I actually had a similar worry during the night phase

But, my thinking requires a confirmation in scum!chaos, so I was holding off voicing the concern until after a chaos flip

Or I guess, until it looked like chaos was gonna flip today.

Why were you thinking Chaos is gonna flip from a naked vote?

Why do you think scum Chaos implies scum Datisi?

You keep implying that since I did not drop my entire case on Chaos all over again, that my vote was "rvs" or "naked" when it is actually a vote that has a whole case behind it in my iso. I even linked it all just now for umlaut. I thought chaos would be the flip today, because he is the scummiest player in the lobby, and looking over the chaos reads coming out of my town reads, I expect the necessary votes are there.

As for Dats, I would point you to his vote on chaos and then his subsequent move off of chaos.

He votes chaos in 230 with a passable fos his direction. At the time, Chaos had 0 votes.

Then he moves his vote to gamma in 270.

In between those two, I scum cased chaos, and voted him in 259. Chaos drops an omgus vote on me in 261. Ari calls out the omgus and votes chaos in 262/265.

270 is a wild time to move away from chaos. If dats was worried about chaos enough to vote him in 230, why would he move the moment actual pressure started building up on the slot?

And his stated reason for moving to gamma? Because gamma called ari town in 252...

Prior to this vote, I cannot find a place where dats called gamma scummy. I also cannot find a place where he calls ari scumm, dats was not calling ari scummy. So a "not explicitly scum read slot" votes another "nonexplicitly scum read slot" and that is enough to abandon the chaos wagon? It kind of looks like Dats put a distance vote, and then was surprised when it turned into a real wagon, and was just looking for a reason to change course.

And you remember our conversation day 1 about lots of people stating suspicions on Chaos, but voting Meg. Well, dats is the one who ended up starting the meg wagon and camped his vote there for the rest of the day. Even when I repeatedly tried to get that voting block to move to chaos.

[Lukewarm]

The fact that he opened up today voting for Umlaut when there were already 2 votes on chaos further feeds in to the worry that dats and chaos are partners

[Lukewarm]

And just searching his iso for mentions of chaos or omega (he refers to the slot as both).

He votes him early, when there is not pressure on the slot.

Then abandons ship the moment pressure actually builds up

And then he never comments on him again. He never calls anything he posts townie. He never calls anything he posts scummy. He just ignores it, even when I was very loudly stating why chaos was the better wagon.

[Lukewarm]

I feel like I was asked a question, and I put a ~lot~ of effort into answering it, and then 3 people just breezed past it, including the person who asked me in the first place

[Lukewarm]

I feel like I was asked a question, and I put a ~lot~ of effort into answering it, and then 3 people just breezed past it, including the person who asked me in the first place

I did not breeze by it.

You answered a question but not the question I wanted answered then took it literally and realized you answered it literally. I was asking more of a “what makes you think votes without explanations are convincing” and got a big long wall case. So the problem was how I asked it.

I don’t have enough time to read a wall as I have to do chores but I can rapid fire post while I do chores so asking questions like this is easier. It will get a better response later

The answer I felt like was breezed past, was the answer to this question

Why do you think scum Chaos implies scum Datisi?

But if you are skipping the walls, then that makes sense

[Lukewarm]

am i insane for thinking there is something Very Wrong about the fact that luke spent a lot of time yesterday pushing omega, then once he realized that's not happening, he was suddenly a firm believer in meg flipping red, brute forced the wagon through, then the person whose literally only strong read was "datisi is locktown" is dead, and *then* luke is back on omega while making a convoluted case on why i'm a partner when that case is half made up of literal lies and empty assumptions?

Dats, I specidically said that my case on you 100% hinges on Chaos being scum. If chaos flips town, then my primary worry 100% disappears.

So, I guess my question for you now is, do you think that Chaos flips scum?

[Lukewarm]

i don't particularly care - it still feels like shade, especially as aristeia is currently having similar thoughts, and by the time omega does flip town (if he does), you can come up with any other bullshit to push me if you need.

i have no idea, i was hoping he'd have more contributions today for me to read. before you ask, no, i'm not interested in voting him right now.

I am really, really not following your FoS on me now.

Meg flipped town. You just implied that chaos might flip town. You also said that you have a town lean on vulture.

i have a gut feeling that vulture is townie. it's not extremely strong but it's there.

So, if the main wagons end of day 1 were [Chaos, Vulture, Meg] what the fuck are you implying scum!Luke was doing day 1?

[Lukewarm]

if you have anything specific to tell me about why i should think you're town here in that gamestate, feel free to point it out.

Eh. I don't think that this is worth it currently.

I am not in any danger of a miselim, and I think that we will both be easier to sort post Chaos flip. If he flips town, you skew back town for me. If he flips scum, I think that does a pertty good job of skewing me town.

I do think that it is wild that 100% of the people who have scum read me at any point this game were all people that I fos'ed

[Lukewarm]

Hello. I am announcing that I am accidentally over gamed. I am alive in 4 games currently, and 2 is my comfort zone. my engagement may suffer until I die off in one or two games

[Lukewarm]

We could always assist by eliminating you

Would prefer to be night killed, thank you

[Lukewarm]

does anyone have a direct objection to my Aristeia push?

I like ari for town, and would much prefer chaos or even umlaut

[Lukewarm]

luke, how may i bribe you for an umlaut vote?

I feel like chaos is SUPER scummy, and it feels like admitting defeat just rolling over and letting a second couter wagons go through while I'm over here championing the chaos wagon both days. But like, it is just not happening even though no one is out here town casing him and he certainly has not suddenly started towning it up

[Lukewarm]

does anyone have a direct objection to my Aristeia push?

I like ari for town, and would much prefer chaos or even umlaut

why? I was kinda hoping you and anyone else who spoke up would provide some sort of counterargument to what I'd said

They started with a laissez-faire attitude, that I think is pretty clearly an alt gimmick.

But then their hunger to solve has poked through that facade at various points. 265 666 671 690 703 722. This break from character makes less sense to me coming from scum. A scum ari could hide behind the gimiick more, but then some heavy solving barreled out anyways.

And end of day 1 there was is a lot of effort going out into that prism scum read that 100% depended on a meg scum flip, and then meg flipped town, so that was like a LOT of wasted effort for scum!meg. Similar to T3 doing all of that meta dive work to get a town read on Datsi, that was a lot of mental gymnastics to put us into a game state of town reading prism / not_mafia. I think I would be more suspicious if she had actually tried to push that narrative into a Prism elim, but she didn't.

And then today, this felt like a wild change of pace for scum!ari to make, but also very very similar to what I was thinking about over night

Mostly cried and had paranoid thoughts about Datisi being a scumbag who's playing with my heart.

[Lukewarm]

I feel I have lost all understanding of this game.

Also, Hi Koba

[Lukewarm]

Koba, want to help me kill Chaos?

[Lukewarm]

Oh look I'm getting wagoned. I could jump on Chaos if it's him or me but I haven't seen any good reason to suspect him aside from "read this other game to see his meta" which I'm just not going to do.

I really don’t like the fact me and a top scumread are both thinking it’s a weird kill so maybe it’s just not?

This is a very weird line of thought. Why on earth would someone else thinking it's a weird kill mean it isn't one, scumread or not? What exactly is the connection here?

@Umlaut

Also, he did respond to these, but his iso is 9 posts long, so I feel like you can manage to find them yourself to see his defense/counter argument

Spoiler:

Chaos also looks worse on a closer look. As of now he has commented on T3, and Flubber, and thats it.

And even with the two of them, he has been stand offish of taking stances. Despite having interacted with T3, I have no idea if he thinks that T3 is townie or scummy? So that leaves Chaos's only read in thread to be flubber.

And, with Flubber, he also held back...

post 71, joins the Flubber wagon with no comment on it what so ever.

Post 101, asks Seanzie for thoughts on the flubber interaction, but still has not voiced any thoughts on it themselves

It is not until 227 that he actually appears to be adding to the case, and that is after I have moved my vote, datsi has said they were starting to get town pings, and Aristeia removed her vote.

This feels like scum, but also never scum with Flubber, so if he does flip scum, flubber is probably lock town imo

VOTE: Chaos

Basically, posts 71 and 101 feel like scum trying to help the wagon pass while also not looking like they are the one leading the push. Asking Seanzie's opinion also felt like a manipulative way to get an extra vote on the wagon.

And then 227 feels like scum realizing that their early day 1 miselim is starting to slip away, and finally stepping in to try and keep it on the table

Me: I see something I found suspicious about Flubber, so I vote him and explain my suspicions

Flubber: Explains his thought process behind the things that I found suspicious

Me: I moved my vote

----

Me: I see something that found suspicious about Aristeia, so I vote her and explain my suspicions

Aristeia: Responds to the thing that I found suspicious, and provides a read lsit

Me: I move my vote

----

Me: I see somethings Chaos has done that I find suspicious, so I vote him and explain my suspicions

Chaos:
~Vote: Luke
~actually I never did anything wrong, and and address the reasons Luke stated to scum read me and
~actually, wasn't Luke being suspicious earlier, when he did this other interaction with Aristeia
~(Of course, I never voiced any opinions on either Luke or Aristeia until Luke started voting me)

Is my vote not a comment on what I think of the wagon?

No

If everyone is jumping off, why would I be so desperate as scum to keep on here? Wouldn't this draw attention to me as it has?

Would you call scum "describing a reason why they scum read the person they are currently voting" as desperate? I didn't, and wouldn't. That is a strange interpretation of my words.

The jump on and off of Aristeia doesn't feel natural to me. Did you scumread her when you voted her in 171?

What does not feel natural to you? I said she did not have reads, and that was worrying to me. She gave a read list, and provided reasonings when asked.

As for other reads I have, Umlaut, Seanzie, Vulture, and Datisi for town, something about Gamma is pinging me, but I can't really put it into words, so I'm ignoring it for now, still think Flubber is scum, the push on Seanzie and his post about mindmelding w/ Titus reads phony.

See, this is what I find strange about your response. One of the things that I said was bothering me was that you don't have reads out there

[sp//oiler=]

As of now he has commented on T3, and Flubber, and thats it.

And even with the two of them, he has been stand offish of taking stances. Despite having interacted with T3, I have no idea if he thinks that T3 is townie or scummy? So that leaves Chaos's only read in thread to be flubber.

And, with Flubber, he also held back...

[/sp//oiler]

And you see me make that point. Apparently realize that you should put some reads out out, but then also don't realize that I had a point, and therefore valid reason to pressure you for reads?

There seems to me to be a bit of cognitive dissonance between the omgus voting me reaction (which when coming from town, I find normally comes from a place of feeling like the reasons the person is scum reading you are non-genuine), while also addressing my biggest concern about you in this way.

[Lukewarm]

He votes for Lukewarm and then,

His first two lines are explain-y, as in "this is what I'm actually trying to do", the point he's making is that he did nothing wrong.

I find that tends to come from people who are scum and disagree with the manner in which they get caught.

Because if Lukewarm is scum, why would he even bother explaining to Lukewarm what he's actually trying to do?


"If everyone is jumping off, why would I be so desperate as scum to keep on here? Wouldn't this draw attention to me as it has?"

This line is just wifom.

He's also looking at Lukewarm jumping off me, but if he actually believes Flubber to be scum, he should be much more interested in how Lukewarm started the Flubber wagon and then jumped off of it rather than the interaction with me.

[Lukewarm]

Lukewarm, what are your thoughts on Umlaut? Is he scummy but less so than me, neutral, town?

Early day 1 I leaned town on Umlaut, but then he has been very absent since then. And that has eroded my read on him a bit, but also I have not seen anything from him that stood out as scummy.

Which comparing that to you, you have both been absent and scummy

[Lukewarm]

My inclination is kinda to try and allow people to reset if they’re wrong
If Chaos is town I don’t see him ever playing in a way that will get Luke to realize that, so it would probably be better to allow him to refocus

I mean, yes I don't feel like compromising.

But also, the entire case surrounding Umlaut (as far as I have seen) is that he has been absent/lurking.

Umlaut has 40 posts. Chaos has 12.

So Umalut lurking does not feel like a persuasive argument that he is scummier then Chaos.

[Lukewarm]

I would expect most people to try to re-sort slots they had previously tucked away if one of their confident SRs was wrong
Aristeia didn’t obviously but rn I want to say she’s the exception not the rule

My stance for like 75% of the day was Chaos>Meg.

Yes I thought that meg was scummy too, but I compromised away from my top preference Day 1. Nothing about Meg flipping town makes me think that Chaos is any less likely scum.

If you want me to reset, town case Chaos or scum case Umlaut.

Give me something to make me reconsider, because when I just went about re-read Chaos's iso, I got the same feeling all over again

[Lukewarm]

I compromised away from my top preference Day 1.

There were lots of factors that went into that decision outside of just compromising. Maybe poor word choice. But my point it is the same

[Lukewarm]

Hey, I'm in the middle of moving ; see me vla (am also a pirate now)

I will probably be mia for like 36 hours x.x

[Lukewarm]

I think I can camp a vote on chaos for my vla

VOTE: chaos

[Lukewarm]

i thought the "umlaut, i was townreading you all of d1, now i'm voting you on d2" was very clear. which is also why i had a slight panic reaction this morning when i saw you were at an unannounced y-2.

I uh missed this.

@chaos, anyone with changed or maybe more confident read on today versus yesterday?

[Lukewarm]

It feels like Gamma and Luke are both trying to pull momentum away from Umlaut here.

VOTE: Lukewarm

-----

Also, I'd rather not claim, but there is a reason I had an about-face on Umlaut after N1 and had my vote locked on him all D2.

Guessing it has to do with what Umlaut flipped?

Umlaut flipped neighbor, not neighborizor, so I feel like that would not result in a change over night, right?

Am I dense?

[Lukewarm]

UNVOTE: UNVOTE:

I still have questions for chaos, but I guess there is enough for me to not camp my vote there while vla.

Will be back post vla

[Lukewarm]

UNVOTE:

[Lukewarm]

Umlaut, I was town reading you all D1 and then naked voted you to start D2, do you find that suspicious at all?

this, coupled with the naked lolvote at the start, looked like a pr soft to me

But a fucking strange one if it is? If umlaut is going down anyways ( I need to look back when I have my computer, but I believe umlaut was the leading wagon, why make it at all?

And if you ARE going to soft, why is it directed AT the scum?

Weird.

[Lukewarm]

lol chaos led the umlaut wagon I'm not interested ever in them

btw @Titus: this remind you of anything? Perhaps a certain stranger from a strange land? A probe far past our solar system initially sent to monitor the rulers of gods and Titans?

clarifying this, in a game that literally just finished a scum tried to claim they and their scumbuddy were prime movers in getting the initial push on the first flipped scum to happen, which I rightly honed in on to steer to game towards that scum's elimination
Titus was the scumbuddy in that scenario

Ayeeee. I was there for that

[Lukewarm]

I am not really caught up (and still vla until tomorrow, so probably won't change before then) but I was just thinking about the chaos investigative claim.

I just think that it is really weird that he did not target me?

Like 80% of his iso day 1 was him calling me scum, and then day 2 he was calling me scum all over again, and then today he is opened up by voting me all over again.

Which seems weird that he did not choose to investigate me either night?

When I come back, I kind of want to iso dive him and actually look at everything he said about me vs everything he said about umlaut.

Before that happens, chaos you are welcome to weigh in and answer what led you to targeting umlaut night 1?

[Lukewarm]

And how do you know that I didn't investigate you N2?

VOTE: Lukewarm

Because you vote me at the start of the day. And if you are town, and did investigate me, I know you would have drawn an innocent.

So the vote on me says that you did not get an inno on me?

[Lukewarm]

Me: these 5 people who are being consensus scumread by others are town imo
Titus: youre literally expanding the limpool

everyone:??????

I am one of the people you just lumped into town here, and I feel like I have been pretty absent since you repped in.

Why are you town reading me?

[Lukewarm]

koba, why is alch not scum?

You are asking the wrong person, he's in my poe.

oh, i misread an earlier post then

do you feel efforting enough to talk about it

Wait. Maybe I misread the same post.

I thought you were calling me+alch+ari+you(koba) town on your interaction with Titus

[Lukewarm]

.
Lukewarm has overall just not felt very engaged or solvey compared to what I've seen of him in the past and that's a big shrug for me.

Like, right now when I am on vla (which, duh) or overall because I feel like I have been pretty engaged and solvey this game before this game day

[Lukewarm]

What do you see from Luke that looks like he's solving?

I skimmed the ISO last night and again just now and it just looks like he's been tunneled on ChaosO for most of the game?

Oh. You meant overall.

Haven't you sheeped my solving twice already this game lol

(And then abandoned me for dats both times)

[Lukewarm]

Anyway, I'd been starting to scumread Luke for a while now, a lot of their pots feeling very vague and not well reasoned, this flashhammer push does nothing for this.
I'd advise against keeping Luke in the townbin, and putting him under some scrutiny.
I'd also like to add that I feel if the Chaos/Luke engagement is S/T, luke would be the scum there.
I was going to put out a megapost about it near DL, but doesn't look like I'll have time to write it.

Feeling Vulture/Luke/???? as a scumteam.

Just try to look into the lukewarm spot.

T
|
S
[Datisis
Ari
Titus
Gamma
T3
Mathblade] [] indicates general groupings town/null/scum ||| top is towniest to lowest is scummiest
[chaos
alch
umlaut
Prism]
[Luke
Vulture]

This might be why.

Are you saying this might be why I moved to Meg? I moved to meg (and started loudly rallying the votes) before this post

[Lukewarm]

(snip)

Note to self for tomorrow.

(Am still limited to phone posting atm, but I should be setting my PC back up tomorrow)

[Lukewarm]

Yea I think town can be tunneled/solvy sure but I don't think Luke feels like he's town convinced that chaos is scum because he's not trying very hard to kill Chaos.

What?

What day have I not been trying hard to kill him?

This day phase? When I have been on vla, and he has claimed a PR?

[Lukewarm]

Oh. You meant overall.

Haven't you sheeped my solving twice already this game lol

(And then abandoned me for dats both times)

I am very needy and Datisi is so handsome....


who do you want to kill if Chaos is off the table now?

also is he actually off the table for you? Do you townread him or do you still want to kill him?

Question 1 -- To be frank, I am unsure. I have been vla and limited to phone posting since the first time in this game I have seen anything that would make me even start thinking about reconsidering my scum read on him. Seeing the pr claim from chaos makes me want to reread the thread sitting in front of my computer, which is impossible since my computer had been on a box for the last few days x.x

Question 2 -- Neither. I would not say that I town read him but I am also hesitant on killing him. it all boils down to "do I believe the pr claim" which I was trying to get to the bottom of by asking him a question earlier, but instead of talking to me he just voted me again, so .... Yeah

[Lukewarm]

My catch up will be happening tonight.

Alch has been sitting in null for me for most of the game (I remember having mixed feelings day 1). But the today he has been doing a lot of defending of me while I have been vla. I made a note for myself to look over his iso to see if I can find his trajectory on me to see if it makes sense for him to be in that place with me, or is is pocket / false association attempts.

I don't know that answer right now, but I will put my conclusion on it tonight.

[Lukewarm]

something just went through my mind, while i was reading alch's earlier posts about how lukewarm is town because there was no reason to switch from chaos to meg. but i'm not sure of that's the case? like, at the time of luke switching, omega wagon was growing stronger than meg's, or at least it was threatening to get stronger. now, i'm going from memory so i would have to check, but wasn't it around this time that omega was being as scummy as before, while meg started stepping on the gas and upping their posting, *and* had prism defend them? like, i can definitely see scum!motivation there if luke thought that omega is the "easier" misyeet he could get on d2, while meg was a fleeting one that he had to capitalize on immediately. plus the whole "why do i do that as scum" defense is a nice bonus there.

again, typing this over phone from memory, so if i'm wrong on the order of events, someone please yell at me.

Not to like scum case myself or anything, but I think that the more obvious scum motivation would be that I was scum with vulture. I switched to meg about the time that vultures wagon started building up. I even said that was part of the reason I moved to meg lol

My top 2 scum reads were chaos and Meg, with a preference to chaos. But looking at the state of the thread at the time, I expected one of the 2 of them to go. Then suddenly there was a vulture wagon forming, taking away votes from both wagons. And I really wanted one of my top 2 scum reads to be the yeet, so I decided to consolidate the chaos wagon I to the meg wagon. I had been trying to a while to lead the chaos wagon, and that wagon seems stop have some resistance behind it. So I was not wanting to hold on to the chaos wagon, and that be the reason neither one of my top scum reads were killed.

Alch's defense of me actually set off a red flag, because he did not seem to consider that possibly.

So he is the first person I will be isoing tonight.

[Lukewarm]

Okay. I am sitting at a computer again!

Gonna be doing some reading, but also just gonna be around if anyone has anything for me

[Lukewarm]

I have iso'ed Alch now.

Spoiler:

Alch’s opening pinged me quite a bit because of the being very buddy buddy, but he later mentioned that this was his first game in a long time, so ehh


Alch’s early interaction with Umlaut does not stop them from being partners imo. It is pressure on him, but it is not the kind of thing that would ever have gotten umlaut eliminated, so does not really look like it could not come from partners.

47 pings me - but in a way that I am finding hard to articulate. The line about looking for pocket attempts on page 2 feels strange. He also undercuts his own earlier comments about umlaut here, making the earlier stuff even less anti-partner then before.

114 - His theory on Seanzie feels like some convoluted logic. Possibly trying to come up with ways to look like he is sorting? I would need to look at other games to know if it was +scum for him.

Looking at his iso, as opposed to in the main thread, I am seeing Meg’s point on him more (314). There are lots of posts, but his iso feels a bit empty? Like I am not seeing anything being said with any feeling of conviction, and there is a decent amount of what looks just like busy work.
Like, asking other people to explain their reads, while not having a ton of reads with explanations behind them himself. Would be interested in looking at his past games for the tone thing. (not to self for latter)

Digging at T3’s softs could be pr hunting, but… it is actually pretty blatant if it is. I thing scum would try to be more subtle about it?


465 - I am back at the lack of conviction thing… Like, I cannot remember the last post he made about flubber being scummy, or scum casing them, or asking them questions. But he is just sitting on that wagon. Ngl, it feels like scum sitting on a wagon, but not wanting to be the leading voice on it (note to self, really, really meta dive this)

527 - omg. Math asks him why he isn’t pushing that idea, and his response is “I did push that back in post 47” 47??

665 - This feels like an interesting place to jump off the flubber/prism wagon, and for an odd reason. Like he has been camped on that slot for a case he made in post 47, but my 658 is what does it for him to leave?

Pointed out by someone else, day 2 he was sitting with me on the chaos counter wagon to umlaut, while also calling umlaut scummy. In a chaos scum world, I don’t think that Alch ever makes this play. In a chaos town world, maybe?


-----
That is not to say that everything was scummy in the iso. Frankly, most of the iso was pretty benign. A couple things that stood out as +town to me were

There were a few places that our thinking aligned, with chaos day 1, and then we had near identical reactions to the chaos pr claim.

1183 seems like a town post. Like, we are not supposed to speculate on replacements, but here he did it to town lock a slot I also think is town, so, weird place to push out on when he could have just, not said this

He is defending me, which feels nice x.x
On a look back, I can kind of see a progression on me, so it is a little less alarming. I think that this is also part of that lack of conviction thing from day 1. Even though he made posts that implied a town read building up on me, he was not very loud about it, so I did not even know it was there until suddenly he was defending me

-----

There is very suddenly a lot of conviction on Chaos day 3. Which looking through his iso, stands out a lot, because there was so little conviction on anything prior to that x.x

Is this the place where scum!Alch finally decides to change his style, and lead the miselim on a claimed pr?

All in all, I can see scum Alch.

There is nothing there that stands out as particularly townie, and on a basic level, the lack of conviction stuff would be +scum. Leaving options open and avoiding being tied to miselims. But I kind of would want to meta him to make sure that that is not just alch's posting style / tone in general.

[Lukewarm]

And skipping ahead a bit, I don't know what to make of 784. It seems like you're trying to kill wagon momentum on me, which doesn't really make sense at all for scum you to do. There is a bit of a weird defensive vibe like you need to justify moving from me to Meg, but I don't see why scum you just doesn't stay on me here. UNVOTE:

Just finished page 32, taking a break for a bit, but I feel a bit lost at this point.

I looked back for the last thing that Chaos said about me day 1, and I guess it makes more sense then I thought for him to not target me Night 1.

@Chaos, I am still interested in hearing what from day 1 lead to your decision to target Umlaut. I don't think answering that could reveal your role?

[Lukewarm]

Doing an umlaut iso now, and ctrlF searching for other players names, to see if it looks like partners or no.

Vulture*

DkKoba

Spoiler:

ALL interactions / thoughts

I preliminarily like Vulture for town but there's not enough there for a strong read.

Chaos seems generally town to me but I'm putting him in the same "need to see more" department as Vulture.

Sort of want to put my vote on Meg by PoE (I think Vulture and Chaos have both looked towny to me at various points) but I'd be lying if I said I had reasoning for that

Yeah... This looks like a partner to me.
-----
Alchemist21

Spoiler:

ALL interactions / thoughts

Do you have a read on Seanzie's coyness? You entered the thread going straight for flubber and didn't really react to Seanzie's posts.

Not really. Coyness isn't really a tell, town and scum alike do that all the time.

The read itself... is not exactly impressing me but I don't expect much from a page 1 read.

i currently have about 8 scumleans and 3/4ths of a townread

can whoever is town here start acting like it

Sounds like a you problem.

What's the point of this reply?

Umlaut feels like he has purpose and direction that is going somewhere - he feels quite motivated to catch bad guys.

I absolutely disagree with this. Please provide evidence.

looks like I'm mindmelding w/ titus

Titus comes in and backs Flubbed up.

Flubber comes in and backs Titus up.

And both were for issues y’all were in the minority on. I don’t think 2 scum buddies would be this blatant with each other but it’s really feeling like at least one of you is scum.

VOTE: Flubber

Why Flubber over Titus? Just because he's leading?

Could be a partner interaction. Both of the last 2 could easily be light partner distancing, in a way that would not endanger Alch.
----

Gamma Emerald

Spoiler:

ALL interactions / thoughts

Need to think more about T3, Titus, Gamma.

Gamma, it seems like Math has already conceded the point that such a setup is unlikely-to-impossible, why (within the context of the game) do you need any more from him than that?

There is just too little here to really say anything about it.
-----
Datisi

Spoiler:

All interactions / thoughts

Datisi probably town. If anything I'm mildly paranoid about being buddied but that's not a behavior I would really expect from scum!Datisi toward me anyway (though my experience with scum!Datisi is limited so I'm really just guessing there).

If anything I'm mildly paranoid about being buddied but that's not a behavior I would really expect from scum!Datisi toward me anyway (though my experience with scum!Datisi is limited so I'm really just guessing there).

ok i'm gonna ask

why are you guessing that there?

Not totally sure, just gut I suppose. I guess I'd expect scum!Datisi to think of me as someone he can get away with scumreading since as far as I can recall you've been at least

somewhat worried about

my slot in pretty much every game we've ever played together.

Dats being Umlaut's stongest town read in his first semi-read list does not look like a partner imo
------

Seanzie*

MathBlade

Spoiler:

A non-ridiculous reading is "there is something in Alchemist's posts that Seanzie didn't like and he's being coy about what exactly" and not "posting = bad," and I have a hard time believing the latter is really what you thought he meant even for a second.

More votes on Flub plz

Do you have a read on Seanzie's coyness? You entered the thread going straight for flubber and didn't really react to Seanzie's posts.

Not really. Coyness isn't really a tell, town and scum alike do that all the time.

The read itself... is not exactly impressing me but I don't expect much from a page 1 read.

Why should I make any kind of post toward Seanzie? I read the thread, I saw Flubber joining a convenient wagon for disingenuous reasons, I voted him.

Ugh I need to play this game but now that I'm so far behind it's hard to get myself to do it

I like MathBlade's very active and engaged entry to the game but haven't really thought in detail about

what

he's saying

Oh look I'm getting wagoned. I could jump on Chaos if it's him or me but I haven't seen any good reason to suspect him aside from "read this other game to see his meta" which I'm just not going to do.

I really don’t like the fact me and a top scumread are both thinking it’s a weird kill so maybe it’s just not?

This is a very weird line of thought. Why on earth would someone else thinking it's a weird kill mean it isn't one, scumread or not? What exactly is the connection here?

The page 2 strong chain saw does not seem like something you actually do for a partner, especially not for the reasons flubber voted them. And then in post 40, that seems like an easy way to drop a town read on sean, and he chooses not to. Does not look like a partner to me.
-----
Aristeia

Spoiler:

Aristeia somwhat town too, just on tone and style; I like her coming in with an early readlist in 185, I like that she had immediate answers when asked to explain those reads, and honestly I don't see scum ever choosing to explain their top townread as "they're town because I would be sad if they're not."

He only has one post about her before he hits e-1. So, hard to really say? But gth, I would say that this is in response to ari giving him a town read just before that, not because she is his partner.
----

Titus

Spoiler:

Titus, what are you actually scumreading about me? The way you're picking that alone out of all Aristeia's reads, you must feel pretty strongly about it.

Why Flubber over Titus? Just because he's leading?

So does "at least one of you is scum" just mean "...because Flubber is scum" or do you have a model of that exchange where Titus is scum and Flub is town?

Something about that phrase pings me, because I don't see how Flubber returning Titus' townread/mindmeld/etc. can possibly reflect badly on

her

.

Need to think more about T3, Titus, Gamma.

VOTE: Chaos

I like Meg's recent posts.

Give me the tl;dr on Chaos? (I realize this is kind of a silly phrasing given Chaos has all of 6 posts but you know what I mean)

VOTE: Chaos

I like Meg's recent posts.

Give me the tl;dr on Chaos? (I realize this is kind of a silly phrasing given Chaos has all of 6 posts but you know what I mean)

That's the problem. Town Chaos is more leadery or tries to be.

I can only recall one game I've played with Chaos (years ago), and he was town in that game and was pretty much like this. Maybe his meta has changed though?

------
Does not look like partner interactions to me.
205 does not look partnery. The reach out in the 700s also looks like a proper reach out to her.

ChaosOmega**
Skipping

-----

Flubbernugget

Prism

Not_Mafia* Not doing all interactions for this one lol

Spoiler:

Going to be AFK at least until tomorrow sometime, but still occasionally skimming.

Chaos seems generally town to me but I'm putting him in the same "need to see more" department as Vulture. Somewhat good feelings about Luke as well, coming from his interactions with Datisi. Need to think more about T3, Titus, Gamma.

VOTE: Chaos

I like Meg's recent posts.

Give me the tl;dr on Chaos? (I realize this is kind of a silly phrasing given Chaos has all of 6 posts but you know what I mean)

What changed?

You posted more.

Why is posting bad?

VOTE: seanzie

This is a really garbage reason for a push

VOTE: Flubbernugget

A non-ridiculous reading is "there is something in Alchemist's posts that Seanzie didn't like and he's being coy about what exactly" and not "posting = bad," and I have a hard time believing the latter is really what you thought he meant even for a second.

More votes on Flub plz

I don't see this being a partner. This very nearly killed flubber x.x

----

So

+partner : Koba, Alch
~partner : Gamma, Ari,
-partner : Flubber, Titus, Math, Dats,

[Lukewarm]

I have been staring at this game for like 2 and a half hours now, and I need the sleep x.x

Best I am going to be able to do tonight.

[Lukewarm]

who do you want to kill if Chaos is off the table now?

Probably Koba or Alch atm

[Lukewarm]

who do you want to kill if Chaos is off the table now?

Probably Koba or Alch atm

Accidentally quoted where I quoted before instead of the original

who do you want to kill if Chaos is off the table now?

[Lukewarm]

I feel like I have parsed through what Titus has been talking about this game. And understand why she has dats and math both as town for it.

I think that Titus must be town at this point for it, so I am with her on the Titus, Dats, Match all town front.

Outside of that angle, I have been feeling ari for town, and I have NotMafia townlocked after the umlaut flip

That leaves Gamma, Koba, and Alch. (ignoring chaos)

I have been vaguely thinking of him as town this game, but not really sure why. I need to do an iso dive on him, but that is not happening tonight.

So, poe, I am down to koba or alch for the day

[Lukewarm]

I have been vaguely thinking of him as town this game, but not really sure why. I need to do an iso dive on him, but that is not happening tonight.

The him in this sentence being Gamma

[Lukewarm]

So, poe, I am down to koba or alch for the day

And they both looked the most like partners when I iso'ed alch.

I will try to iso vulture as well tomorrow.

[Lukewarm]

So, poe, I am down to koba or alch for the day

And they both looked the most like partners when I iso'ed

alch

Umlaut

I will try to iso vulture as well tomorrow.

ebwop

I am going to sleep now

[Lukewarm]

game just finished -> viewtopic.php?f=2&t=87211

main reason why im so skeptical of this interaction between titus/math where math is shielded by titus (?) while titus knows the very last time before this game they were town against scum!math she got pocketed to no end and manipulated to take me down with her

This is actually fair and a valid criticism...to a point.

Just because I read Math wrong before, it doesn't invalidate what I am seeing. It makes any meta argument less persuasive but I'm largely not townreading Math by meta.

Second, I have been fooled by you before too which is, under your logic, grounds to be suspicious of you.

I'm tossing you several branches of logic that should tell you im town and you're intentionally swatting them aside in favor of maintaining this tunnel

I just skimmed through your iso, and I think the only "branches of logic" I can find are:
-scum!koba would not stop the Chaos wagon, and
-Titus has a terrible read rate of you, so her scum reading you = your town.

Am I missing something else?

I looked back, and the first time you mentioned Chaos was in 1681, which was after he revealed he was a pr and dats quoted where he softed it the day before. Which, I don't think it is very convincing that scum!Koba would ever push a town!Chaos after the claim.

And I don't think that the second point is very convincing at all, since we also can try and sort you by virture of vulture (Titus tried to lead a wagon there day 1), and she appears to be somewhat poe'ing her way to you as well.

[Lukewarm]

1082 is where the crazy crusade against meg begins

ngl i really want luke to be scum because the only time (that i recall right now, at least) i had seen someone go from almost 0 to 100 and pushing someone in that aggressive of a manner was when they were scum

luke, have you ever done something like that as town?

I can say for sure that I have never done it as scum.

As town yes, when I get tired of a day phase, I have decided to call in the votes before.

I did something similar in forest fire, but maybe not quite as aggressively. Once I got tired of the day, I blatantly started trying to corral votes on a wagon.

Spoiler:

Infinity, lets vote hectic!!

Every single wagon appears to stall out pretty hard. We gotta get a few people on the same page at some point. You + me + skitter all have hectic in out poe, and I think we could round up the votes from T3/HEM

If we leave it with me pushing Prism, Skitter pushing hectic, You pushing skitter, Prism pushing hem/Ydra, hectic pushing child, then we are never going to get a wagon to pass

The time has come. Lets kill someone

But seriously, we have to consolidate at some point, and we are past when the day should have ended originally.

Why does literally every single wagon feel like pulling teeth. Like even when Monkey was on the chopping block, hectic and ydra and T3 and You were all arguing against it.

And I also did it in another game, also pretty aggressively like this one, but not really in a way that I want to look back on it / point you to it

[Lukewarm]

Before that "Infinity lets vote hectic!!" post, I don't think that I was not even voting for hectic myself lol

(Although, I did not succeed at pushing out hectic that day, the tactic did result in everyone consolidating onto someone pretty quickly after that that day)

[Lukewarm]

Oh. Just thought of a third game where I did that lol

[Lukewarm]

Oh. Just thought of a third game where I did that lol

Where it started in my iso

I was voting for marci like 3 posts before I start this wild journey to end up begging people to vote for hopkirk.

[Lukewarm]

especially with the way in his wall where he just goes "yep vulture sure does look like an umlaut partner" with no actual thoughts on it?

Did you open the spoiler? Umlaut had 3 total posts on vulture. All three are very weak town reads, but very much in a way that looks like they could be purposefully trying to not look like they were defending him if he did flip, and leaving him leeway to bus if needed.

This squarely in the area that I expect the average scum player to put their partners. Which is in the (weak scum to weak town) range, but without a lot of reasons / casing.

Compare that you where he was giving stronger town reads to you and me, and to where he was giving stronger scumreads on flubber.

[Lukewarm]

i did open the spoiler

the first two quotes are meh, and i'd have expected you to give a bit more thoughts on the third one, to take into account the wagon movements or whatever at the time, as opposed to just saying "ye looks like partner"

Dude, I spent like 2 straight hours trying to get caught up last night. I was looking specifically at Umlaut's iso at that point, and did not have the time/energy to look at wagon movements around each person when I was looking at every single slot's interactions in his iso.

"These posts look exactly like what I expect the average scum to post about their partner" is the best I was going to be able to offer.

[Lukewarm]

another thing i notice rn is that luke's main suspects are alch and koba when i have been pretty loud in wanting to kill alch and there's a decent wagon there, while koba is being dumb and antagonizing titus and gamma is also willing to vote there

You don't like that I ended with koba and alch, when I was explicitly asked to take Chaos off the table?

I have all of Titus, you, math, Not_Mafia, ari and gamma as varying degrees of town.

Which of those people in my town reads do you think should not be there?

[Lukewarm]

@Datisi, what do you think of Umlaut's posts in light of the wagon movement on Vulture?

2223?

I just followed that back to look at the umlaut posts there, looking at wagon movement. Based on the vote count at 1025, here is every movement in the last 100 posts before that

Chaos : Unvote Lukewarm
Titus : Vulture -> Chaos
Math : Vulture -> Meg

So, I am not quite as sure that Umlaut would really need to be as worried about the vulture wagon any more at that point?

[Lukewarm]

have you explained your trs on math and ari further than in the looking for associates post?

also, the way you say it makes me think you're stull suspecting chaos

I did a town case on Ari day 2. Can find it later if you need it.

For math, I in general really like the tone of his posts, and also all of the star wars and Sophie talk with Titus makes me think he is town. I also don't think that if math was scum that T3 would have died day 1 or that there would have been a failed kill day 2.

As for Chaos. Yeah. He was my top scum read all the way to the moment he claimed pr. Which is enough for me to take him off the table for now, but like. I was really sure before, and he has indicated that he has no interest in answering the questions I have to determine if I trust the pr claim. So. Currently just tabling that read, and hoping either him and I die before elo and I never have to work out if that was just a tunnel or not.

[Lukewarm]

I’m pretty sure Koba’s not scum. The transition from “not gonna tryhard lol” to now trying reads like Town that wanted to hold back but couldn’t help themselves.

Why could it not be scum who sees they are starting to garner suspicions, and decided that they could not just sit back?

"started efforting" seems like a pretty weak reason to be "pretty sure" that he is town x.x

[Lukewarm]

oh, that was me saying "i really want to believe that titus is right about mathblade being town, but that post makes me doubt him again"

rn im more at "titus is TMIing math" but im at the point where i feel comfy eliminating 100% titus/ math together. Math seems to be genuinely approaching the game the more he speaks.

I'm very hesitant on titus because ive misread titus to no end and I'm feeling similar to when ive misread her in the past.

[lukewarm-titus-ari-gamma] is my gun to head poe with a couple there as "what if the top scumread flips town"

His gth poe are the three people who have voiced suspicions on him + ari

@Koba, weren't you trying to town block with ari earlier? What changed your read on her?

[Lukewarm]

I did a town case on Ari day 2. Can find it later if you need it.

does anyone have a direct objection to my Aristeia push?

I like ari for town, and would much prefer chaos or even umlaut

why? I was kinda hoping you and anyone else who spoke up would provide some sort of counterargument to what I'd said

They started with a laissez-faire attitude, that I think is pretty clearly an alt gimmick.

But then their hunger to solve has poked through that facade at various points. 265 666 671 690 703 722. This break from character makes less sense to me coming from scum. A scum ari could hide behind the gimiick more, but then some heavy solving barreled out anyways.

And end of day 1 there was is a lot of effort going out into that prism scum read that 100% depended on a meg scum flip, and then meg flipped town, so that was like a LOT of wasted effort for scum!ari. Similar to T3 doing all of that meta dive work to get a town read on Datsi, that was a lot of mental gymnastics to put us into a game state of town reading prism / not_mafia. I think I would be more suspicious if she had actually tried to push that narrative into a Prism elim, but she didn't.

And then today, this felt like a wild change of pace for scum!ari to make, but also very very similar to what I was thinking about over night

Mostly cried and had paranoid thoughts about Datisi being a scumbag who's playing with my heart.

[Lukewarm]

I didnt even say chaos was town because of the pr claim lmao it had 0% to do with my read.
Nice try tho

The point Titus made (and I made earlier) had nothing to do with your reason, and everything to do with the timing...

[Lukewarm]

Hey Koba, vote Chaos

i cant betray him another time, sorry

And again... This is after Chaos claimed pr, and dats backed him up with the day 2 soft

Spoiler:

It feels like Gamma and Luke are both trying to pull momentum away from Umlaut here.

VOTE: Lukewarm

-----

Also, I'd rather not claim, but there is a reason I had an about-face on Umlaut after N1 and had my vote locked on him all D2.

no shit lol.

I thought it was obvious enough, but I guess not.

i thought the "umlaut, i was townreading you all of d1, now i'm voting you on d2" was very clear. which is also why i had a slight panic reaction this morning when i saw you were at an unannounced y-2.

[Lukewarm]

because youre very annoying with how confident you are vs how confident you should be on this

This looks like a scum post to me x.x

Isn't Titus one of your scum reads? If you think she is scum, why do you feel this way?

[Lukewarm]

gamma - answer how im similar to townstumps and why you aren't.

You’re getting agitated in response to pressure on your slot, just like how Nancy getting pushed off being low-impact made you lash out
And I can’t exactly say my plan differs from that game but there’s an explanation for it that isn’t “Gamma is scum” and I’ve brought it up multiple times now

and ive never been agitated in completed games as town?

The way it happened feels like how it happened in Townstumps
I can’t entirely recall any other instances of it

I feel like they got really frustrated in Not Quite Normal Multiball when people started suspecting them.

But I also feel like they were doing a lot more solving before they started getting frustrated, so ehh

[Lukewarm]

Well, I have some catching up to do.

[Lukewarm]

Having a hard time figuring out what happened to the scum kill here is why I ask

I blocked it. Hence why I have said Datisi locktown over and over.

I figured out the crumbs for this, and I am surprised that math missed it.

Like when I told dats that I did not expect the night 2 kill to have failed if he was scum, was because I assumed he figured out the crumbs since they were directed at him x.x

[Lukewarm]

Well I pieced together that she was a protective who saved dats. Did not figure out jailkeeper

[Lukewarm]

koba, i believe you also haven't answered why scum!you doesn't shoot me?

Since it is confirmed you were shot at - I would go for someone loud and with WIM like a town mathblade.

my favored kill choices are those who are driving the game.

also with my claim of not having read the game - and the fact my postings track with that being true -> I would push to kill chaos and not you, datisi, based on the vote count at EoD.

I am not sure I understand this. What about the vote count at EoD would lead you to shooting Chaos>Dats?

Also, strange to see "I would go for someone loud and with WIM" in the same post saying you would go for chaos x.x

[Lukewarm]

I think the best reason for alchemist scum atp is that Koba has been wrong about literally everything so far so this would just be the cherry on the cake.

[Lukewarm]

nope I softed it to protect the real on but it looks like it was positive utility claimed from my pov in terms of dayplay.

you know who else benefits from those claims happening? SCUM!!!

ok but resolving 2 slots at once is actually pretty useful too.

now you have no excuse for not dying tonight unless there is another no kill -

and no one needs to ever tinfoil titus anymore.

There was not enough people who missed her claim for that to ever be an issue. Between me dats and gamma all realizing that she had saved dats.

So like, you are arguing that removing the suspicion for just you was a protown endeavor, which I don't think is the case....

I agree with Ari's earlier post tho, that this looks more like a townkoba...

[Lukewarm]

VOTE: Alch

Why not? Then I can catch up overnight and see if I find any scum in Titus/Gamma/Chaos.

If it’s actually Chaos I don’t know if I’ll be more disappointed in myself or everyone else for letting him go.

I will be happy if it’s Chaos because then Titus can go “I was right on Umlaut” and I can go “I was right on Chaos” lol

You

get to go "I was right on chaos"?

[Lukewarm]

Koba has been townier in the last few pages, so looking outside of the pr claim shenanigans, I am at

VOTE: alch

[Lukewarm]

Titus carrying hard this game lol

[Lukewarm]

Also, I feel a bit bad because I did not mean to hammer alch yesterday, I did not realize he was at e1 x.x

(Although, notmafia is in this game, so him sitting at e1 meant he was probably getting hammered soon anyways, but still)

[Lukewarm]

Are we mass claiming?

If so, is Titus directing it?