Mini Normal 2242 | Opossum Mafia | Game Over!

[House]

T3 claimed under duress a role that should have had him catching a bullet.

He not only lived through the night, he refuses to out results.

My guess is, he doesn't want to wind up getting it wrong and having his "results" countered.

[House]

I have no doubt that he probably crumbed some bullshit to cookie but doesn't want it outed in case his guess is wrong.

I've been let off the hook quite a bit for TWTBAW. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

[House]

T3 claimed under duress a role that should have had him catching a bullet.

He not only lived through the night, he refuses to out results.

My guess is, he doesn't want to wind up getting it wrong and having his "results" countered.

Yeah, I said this before too that it was weird that T3 survived N1. Make no mistake he is very scummy to me right now and I could go for D2 elim of him.

About the second point, shouldn't it be easy to fake result since the neighbourhood is outed?

It would be hard to justify targeting an outed hood.

[House]

And by hard, I mean impossible.

[House]

A50, who do you think redtea should target on a T3 red flip? Green flip?

[House]

Sorry still not used to all abbreviations. What's fae and faer?

Most likely the pronouns of cookie's main, if I have to guess.

[House]

And by hard, I mean impossible.

Yeah probably, but I meant more that since the neighbourhood is outed already it is easy for T3 to make a fake check. Unless you think there is a second neighbourhood?

I highly doubt there is, which is why a positive result outside of the claimed hood would be damning.

When that "positive result" flipped green, T3 would die the next day.

If that "negative result" claimed a way to communicate, T3 would die the same day.

[House]

T3 is buddying cookie to make faer how town beard and simultaneously denying info to the rest of town.

[House]

T3 is buddying cookie to make faer his* town beard and simultaneously denying info to the rest of town.

[House]

Sorry still not used to all abbreviations. What's fae and faer?

Most likely the pronouns of cookie's main, if I have to guess.

Actually the pronouns faer opted to list on this account

I still think I'm right, though.

[House]

JOh. You don't know?

Anyways, I'm don't think the neighbors are both town. Most of the games I've seen neighbors in they've been either s/s or t/s.

Combine this with the earlier thing and you should seeif you don't already.
Kay?

I might. I might not. Either way, cookie knows my result. So if one of us dies the other person will know to potentially box scum into a corner later.

the first letter of my first 2 posts were 'nr' then after cookie posted next i realized i forgot to crumb my target and the first letter of those 4 posts were 'jack'

Not quite.

[House]

Conveniently, he can't be confirmed or countered.

@T3: Why Jacket?

[House]

@House: How do you feel about DotW? I think a redtea shot there is fine

I can't read DotW.

I'd rather you not take a bullet to prove a point. Your play stands on its own merits.

[House]

Man! I meant STD.. well.. the DRAGON in this game

Him either.

[House]

@T3 why in the world would you assume that cookie would "know" you're town when you provided no information that is actually beneficial to town??

[House]

@A50: Since I'm pushing T3 right along with you, if T3 is somehow actually town here

[House]

OK.. bit that's IF T3 flips green. If he flips red though redtea should either holster, waste another shot on three, or shoot STD anyway.

Might as well finish what he started on Three, IMHO.

Makes no sense to stop halfway through.

[House]

Let's work this out...

Claims so far are:

Gated vig
TA/NF
Bulletproof Neighbor
Neighbor
Informed Townie/Mailman

That's a lot of power against a bulletproof traitor and 2 group scum, ESPECIALLY if both group scum are also PR's which leaves all of the scum vulnerable to the gated vig (at some point, at any rate).

If at least one group scum is goon for vig immunity, the power balance gets even weirder.

There's definitely shenanigans going on in claimed roles.

[House]

This is all going way too fast and feeling way too easy.

UNVOTE:

I need to reconsider.

[House]

@House: If I'm wrong I ESPECIALLY apologize to you. I know I'm being "unfriendly" to you with this accusation, and I should probably stop trying to read you in furture games.

You really should.

[House]

We're barely into the day and you're at E-1, dude.

[House]

We're barely into the day and T3's* at E-1, dude.

[House]

@STD: Your "I don't want to lim T3" was the final nail. I already started thinking of the situation when House volunteered to be shot instead of you, and again when he asserted redtea should shoot three again. It looked like a blatant attempt to deter the shot off you (and confirmed the team doesn't have a RB), but if you had voted T3 I probably would have thought it was too crazy to be true.

Wtf.

I don't want StD shot because he hasn't claimed, and if redtea says he's going to shoot there it could out even more power.

Where's your head?!

VOTE: A50

[House]

@STD: Your "I don't want to lim T3" was the final nail. I already started thinking of the situation when House volunteered to be shot instead of you, and again when he asserted redtea should shoot three again. It looked like a blatant attempt to deter the shot off you (and confirmed the team doesn't have a RB), but if you had voted T3 I probably would have thought it was too crazy to be true.

Wtf.

I don't want StD shot because he hasn't claimed, and if redtea says he's going to shoot there it could out even more power.

Where's your head?!

VOTE: A50

More power?? Do you think this is a ROLE MADNESS?

No.

I think there are shenanigans in the claimed power that already exists.

I'VE ALREADY SAID THIS.

[House]

T3's role was designed for Scum to identify their Traitor in at least 2 steps, and the Mailman is their "Miller" (gives them a false +ve)

This is actually close to what I was thinking. Except it makes more sense for cool cookie to be the traitor, since mailman returns a positive to a traffic analyst but a negative to a neighbor finder.

So there are THREE Bulletproofs in the setup? because BOTH me and zen are 1-shot BP. (that's the part we decided he should leave out when he claimed)

[House]

T3's role was designed for Scum to identify their Traitor in at least 2 steps, and the Mailman is their "Miller" (gives them a false +ve)

This is actually close to what I was thinking. Except it makes more sense for cool cookie to be the traitor, since mailman returns a positive to a traffic analyst but a negative to a neighbor finder.

Well.. I could lowkey see your point, with both BP neighbors designed to be -ve utilities for both sides. Scum get failed NKs and Town gets falls +ve (Via COMPLEX VIG though, NOT the TA/Neighbor Finder)

You don't see the problem with TWO players claiming identical roles AS TOWN?

That... completely flies over your head?

No. Just fucking no.

If you were town, you'd be screaming CC at Zen all day long.

[House]

T3's role was designed for Scum to identify their Traitor in at least 2 steps, and the Mailman is their "Miller" (gives them a false +ve)

This is actually close to what I was thinking. Except it makes more sense for cool cookie to be the traitor, since mailman returns a positive to a traffic analyst but a negative to a neighbor finder.

Well.. I could lowkey see your point, with both BP neighbors designed to be -ve utilities for both sides. Scum get failed NKs and Town gets falls +ve (Via COMPLEX VIG though, NOT the TA/Neighbor Finder)

You don't see the problem with TWO players claiming identical roles AS TOWN?

That... completely flies over your head?

No. Just fucking no.

If you were town, you'd be screaming CC at Zen all day long.

This is the part that actually made me trust A50 the most in the beginning. He had the same role as me, and disclosed his before I did. That's what made me trust him because I figured we have the exact same role. But I gues BP traitor neighbour would claim to be a BP neighbour. I also found it weird that A50 went straight to claiming BP instead of trying to bait a shot with claiming Vanlilla. Then later he regrets it...

Can you link to a (completed) game that has 2 of the same roles where both are town-aligned that gives you that belief?

Last I knew, that doesn't happen BECAUSE it leads to town cc'ing town.

[House]

T3's role was designed for Scum to identify their Traitor in at least 2 steps, and the Mailman is their "Miller" (gives them a false +ve)

This is actually close to what I was thinking. Except it makes more sense for cool cookie to be the traitor, since mailman returns a positive to a traffic analyst but a negative to a neighbor finder.

Well.. I could lowkey see your point, with both BP neighbors designed to be -ve utilities for both sides. Scum get failed NKs and Town gets falls +ve (Via COMPLEX VIG though, NOT the TA/Neighbor Finder)

You don't see the problem with TWO players claiming identical roles AS TOWN?

That... completely flies over your head?

No. Just fucking no.

If you were town, you'd be screaming CC at Zen all day long.

This is the part that actually made me trust A50 the most in the beginning. He had the same role as me, and disclosed his before I did. That's what made me trust him because I figured we have the exact same role. But I gues BP traitor neighbour would claim to be a BP neighbour. I also found it weird that A50 went straight to claiming BP instead of trying to bait a shot with claiming Vanlilla. Then later he regrets it...

Can you link to a (completed) game that has 2 of the same roles where both are town-aligned that gives you that belief?

Last I knew, that doesn't happen BECAUSE it leads to town cc'ing town.

I actually thought it was more likely we were both town because we had the same role. Like some strange mind games the designers were playing. I am not that familiar with setups here to know how plausible it was.

Counterclaiming is a thing because scum claim roles that town actually has.

If it came from both alignments, there would be zero utility in counterclaiming.

[House]

I would urge everybody to calm down and try to think things over from at least 2 different perspectives.

My proposed solve was originally mean to be a PM top the mod (I didn't think it was worth requesting a private personal thread, so was going to "vent it all out" for post-game bragging rights.

Then it hit me my solve -if correct- could actually end the game by tomorrow. We lim one scum today, shoot another by night and lim the third tomorrow. I rethought ot and it seemed plausible, so I decided I should post in the main thread instead.

Funny how your "solve" flew out right after I got cold feet on the T3 wagon.

But I think you're "my" traitor?

It is for to laugh.

[House]

T3's role was designed for Scum to identify their Traitor in at least 2 steps, and the Mailman is their "Miller" (gives them a false +ve)

This is actually close to what I was thinking. Except it makes more sense for cool cookie to be the traitor, since mailman returns a positive to a traffic analyst but a negative to a neighbor finder.

Well.. I could lowkey see your point, with both BP neighbors designed to be -ve utilities for both sides. Scum get failed NKs and Town gets falls +ve (Via COMPLEX VIG though, NOT the TA/Neighbor Finder)

You don't see the problem with TWO players claiming identical roles AS TOWN?

That... completely flies over your head?

No. Just fucking no.

If you were town, you'd be screaming CC at Zen all day long.

This is the part that actually made me trust A50 the most in the beginning. He had the same role as me, and disclosed his before I did. That's what made me trust him because I figured we have the exact same role. But I gues BP traitor neighbour would claim to be a BP neighbour. I also found it weird that A50 went straight to claiming BP instead of trying to bait a shot with claiming Vanlilla. Then later he regrets it...

Can you link to a (completed) game that has 2 of the same roles where both are town-aligned that gives you that belief?

Last I knew, that doesn't happen BECAUSE it leads to town cc'ing town.

I recently played a mini normal with 2 cops. But this is different.

How so?

Link?

[House]

T3's role was designed for Scum to identify their Traitor in at least 2 steps, and the Mailman is their "Miller" (gives them a false +ve)

This is actually close to what I was thinking. Except it makes more sense for cool cookie to be the traitor, since mailman returns a positive to a traffic analyst but a negative to a neighbor finder.

Well.. I could lowkey see your point, with both BP neighbors designed to be -ve utilities for both sides. Scum get failed NKs and Town gets falls +ve (Via COMPLEX VIG though, NOT the TA/Neighbor Finder)

You don't see the problem with TWO players claiming identical roles AS TOWN?

That... completely flies over your head?

No. Just fucking no.

If you were town, you'd be screaming CC at Zen all day long.

This is the part that actually made me trust A50 the most in the beginning. He had the same role as me, and disclosed his before I did. That's what made me trust him because I figured we have the exact same role. But I gues BP traitor neighbour would claim to be a BP neighbour. I also found it weird that A50 went straight to claiming BP instead of trying to bait a shot with claiming Vanlilla. Then later he regrets it...

Can you link to a (completed) game that has 2 of the same roles where both are town-aligned that gives you that belief?

Last I knew, that doesn't happen BECAUSE it leads to town cc'ing town.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=87504

This game had a 1-shot even night cop and a Night 2 Cop (effectively the same role). I think trying to outguess the mod is bad. (To be clear, I scumread T3 on play. Not just role spec stuff.)

That is not the same role.

Notice the different gates?

A50 adopted Zen's modifier.

[House]

If Zen was still townreading A50, I'd postulate that he was full bp and A50 was 1-shot in an attempt to WIFOM scum, but that's clearly not happening, here.

[House]

If Zen was still townreading A50, I'd postulate that he was full bp and A50 was 1-shot in an attempt to WIFOM scum, but that's clearly not happening, here.

What full BP? Who gives FULL BP in a game like this?? What's the Complex Vig for then??

It's almost like there's more than 2 players in the game!

[House]

is there a case on someone

Aside from A50 not counterclaiming Zen for having his exact role and suddenly theorizing that I'm scum thinking he's my traitor after I got cold feet on an early day E-1 wagon?

Nah.

[House]

is there a case on someone

Aside from A50 not counterclaiming Zen for having his exact role and suddenly theorizing that I'm scum thinking he's my traitor after I got cold feet on an early day E-1 wagon?

Nah.

does this mean they both claim bulletproof?
well, after sautéing a braincell, i can say i do expect a wolf in the PR claims, and i was leaning towards it being in the neighbours, who are... apparently both bulletproof now?

i still trust cool cookie's claim fwiw, idk much about recent events

They both claim 1-shot bp.

[House]

both of them?

who wants to bet one of them's the BP traitor

*raises hand*

[House]

both of them?

who wants to bet one of them's the BP traitor

WOW! Such a revelation! I'm truly impressed.

Considering that revelation never came to you...

[House]

Considering that revelation never came to you...

Spoiler:

Let's take a look back:

1- Who outed the hood? I did.
2- Who claimed his BP in public? I did
3- Who accused the other of being the Traitor (after more info was available)? I DID

So.. if you're going to claim the Traitor is in the hood was the one and only conclusion I should've had right off the gate, you're still voting the wrong person.

But considering you're SCUM in my solve, I don't find you voting me strange at all. At least once I flip the Town will reconsider and "maybe" someone will decide to tackle the idea that I am correct, and IF your theory of an investigative is in the unclaimed slots is true then all the better.

The thing i find most odd about you is not only are you voting me, but you also claim to believe there might be some yet another unclaimed PR in addition to a Complex Vig (effectively half-Investigative) and a TA/Neighbor Finder (an Investigative).

So, tell me: is it a 3rd investigative you suspect there might exist, or a protective (that has no function because the VTs/Goons are immune to the Vig and we have 2 BP claims)?

Ridiculous wall of nothing trying to look productive.

Why do I say this?

Because I can counter his entire wall with lists I'VE ALREADY MADE.

T3's role was designed for Scum to identify their Traitor in at least 2 steps, and the Mailman is their "Miller" (gives them a false +ve)

This is actually close to what I was thinking. Except it makes more sense for cool cookie to be the traitor, since mailman returns a positive to a traffic analyst but a negative to a neighbor finder.

Well.. I could lowkey see your point, with both BP neighbors designed to be -ve utilities for both sides. Scum get failed NKs and Town gets falls +ve (Via COMPLEX VIG though, NOT the TA/Neighbor Finder)

You don't see the problem with TWO players claiming identical roles AS TOWN?

That... completely flies over your head?

No. Just fucking no.

If you were town, you'd be screaming CC at Zen all day long.

There's definitely shenanigans going on in claimed roles.

I think there are shenanigans in the claimed power that already exists.

I'VE ALREADY SAID THIS.

[House]

Considering that revelation never came to you...

Spoiler:

Let's take a look back:

1- Who outed the hood? I did.
2- Who claimed his BP in public? I did
3- Who accused the other of being the Traitor (after more info was available)? I DID

So.. if you're going to claim the Traitor is in the hood was the one and only conclusion I should've had right off the gate, you're still voting the wrong person.

But considering you're SCUM in my solve, I don't find you voting me strange at all. At least once I flip the Town will reconsider and "maybe" someone will decide to tackle the idea that I am correct, and IF your theory of an investigative is in the unclaimed slots is true then all the better.

The thing i find most odd about you is not only are you voting me, but you also claim to believe there might be some yet another unclaimed PR in addition to a Complex Vig (effectively half-Investigative) and a TA/Neighbor Finder (an Investigative).

So, tell me: is it a 3rd investigative you suspect there might exist, or a protective (that has no function because the VTs/Goons are immune to the Vig and we have 2 BP claims)?

Ridiculous wall of nothing trying to look productive.

Why do I say this?

Because I can counter his entire wall with posts* I'VE ALREADY MADE.

T3's role was designed for Scum to identify their Traitor in at least 2 steps, and the Mailman is their "Miller" (gives them a false +ve)

This is actually close to what I was thinking. Except it makes more sense for cool cookie to be the traitor, since mailman returns a positive to a traffic analyst but a negative to a neighbor finder.

Well.. I could lowkey see your point, with both BP neighbors designed to be -ve utilities for both sides. Scum get failed NKs and Town gets falls +ve (Via COMPLEX VIG though, NOT the TA/Neighbor Finder)

You don't see the problem with TWO players claiming identical roles AS TOWN?

That... completely flies over your head?

No. Just fucking no.

If you were town, you'd be screaming CC at Zen all day long.

There's definitely shenanigans going on in claimed roles.

I think there are shenanigans in the claimed power that already exists.

I'VE ALREADY SAID THIS.

EBWOP

[House]

interesting post.

Disagree.

He's just rehashing shit.

That's why my copypasta is a valid response to his post.

[House]

i'm reading that we don't even have to exterminate the traitor to win?

uh is this true?

Yes.

They still count against town's majority, however.

[House]

This whole thing where cool cookie is insisting we protect a dead-ass useless PR for multiple days makes no sense.

So FYPOV scum!cookie messages scum!T3 to tell him how to crumb/fake a crumb to fae, then drops the ball on picking up the very information fae told him to put out?

[House]

Did anyone think anything of the game I mentioned where there were two neighbors with the same roles and town (both ungated role cops in fact)

That's not the link I saw.

The game I was linked to had a n2 cop and an even night cop.

Not the same thing at all.

[House]

groupscum in the same hood with traitor isn't impossible, and would make T3 incredibly valuable had all these claims not been shit all over the place.

[House]

Plus, I believe he tried to leave a breadcrumb for his scum partners that I was also BP when I had claimed VT and was trying to draw scum shot to me.

Where did this happen?

[House]

Where he says "In hindsight I should not have claimed my BP. That would have been risky because of the Complex Vig thing, but it would have been beneficial to draw the NK and take Scum by surprise." This was when he knew I was actually BP but was claiming VT in order to draw night shot from scum. To me it's a completely unnecessary comment, and only serves as a breadcrumb from a traitor to scum about me being BP.

Now see, this is why I don't bother with crumb hunting.

I'd have never been able to do enough math to make that add up.

[House]

my problem is that the neighborhood may or may not be influenced by past games and in a vacuum there's any possible combination of alignments in the neighborhood between {town, scum, traitor}

do you have any other thoughts dwlee

Do you townread both A50 & Zen independent of the existence of the hood?

[House]

my problem is that the neighborhood may or may not be influenced by past games and in a vacuum there's any possible combination of alignments in the neighborhood between {town, scum, traitor}

do you have any other thoughts dwlee

Do you townread both A50 & Zen independent of the existence of the hood?

no

I did not expect this response.

I expected you to say yes, because "no" does not line up with

i think it might be better to hunt outside the hood

[House]

if people want A50 i'm willing to go there

Okay.

What changed your mind?

[House]

the only reason i'm not on A50 right now is because i think he's the traitor and i want to find scum

did you miss this post house

I've never cared about those kinds of logical gymnastics.

I'm a simple guy. Red is dead.

If a player reads as scum to me, I'm not going to wrack my brain trying to figure out which one. That's losing WIFOM, IMHO.

[House]

Jacket
HawaiianPizza
House
Save The Dragons

I can claim somewhere in here but preferably after jacket/Hawaiian. Others have claimed I think

Screw your order.

I'm not claiming unless we popcorn.

[House]

i have no problems claiming

Neither do I, but I only participate in massclaims via popcorn method.

It's policy.

[House]

It's also more informational than some drummed up list.

[House]

Can somebody walk me through why we would not have a TA since redtea was a gated vig?

Weak/Loyal/Disloyal, I'd understand, but Complex just told him whether the player is PR/Vanilla.

Would 2 power roles that can both give false positives not be the rough equivalent of 1 actually useful investigational role?

[House]

Why would a Mafia TA need a false positive (cool cookie)?

[House]

Oh, to offset the neighbors, perhaps?

[House]

Can somebody walk me through why we would not have a TA since redtea was a gated vig?

Weak/Loyal/Disloyal, I'd understand, but Complex just told him whether the player is PR/Vanilla.

Would 2 power roles that can both give false positives not be the rough equivalent of 1 actually useful investigational role?

It certainly can be useful, but that's not the problem.

What use does Town have for being able to find Neighbors? TA can find scum, sure, but Neighbor Finder has no real town use, and the fact that both Neighbors are BP just seems more helpful for scum to find than town.

I am however willing to listen to a town case for a Neighbor Finder given the context of our Neighbors being BP in a set up that is confirmed to have a BP Traitor.

PT Cop is a new role to me. It didn't exist when I was here last.

I don't know the intracacies and full utility of it.

A method of testing claims, perhaps? That doesn't confirm alignment, though. The other half of his role is more useful for that, if he's town.

IDK. :/

[House]

Why would a Mafia TA need a false positive (cool cookie)?

I mean I agree, but I'm not sure why you would assume that it's a real claim instead of made up.

Because it's a dumb claim to make up?

If T3 had only claimed TA, then sure maybe it is made up, but PT Cop actually works

against

him.

I don't see why he would fake that.

[House]

Also why wasn't T3 blocked? We already think he's fake claiming, but if he's town why would scum risk not blocking him in case he is actually fake claiming and has a more substantial PR?

To put it another way, if I was scum and T3 was town, I don't start randomly blocking other people. It's just such an unnecessary risk.

I recommend everyone else think through that hypothetical situation themselves. If you're scum and T3 is town, do you really risk not blocking him Night 2?

Why would he claim blocked n2 but not n3 if he's lying when claiming to be blocked again n3 would be more believable?

The fact it makes him look worse than maintaining a blocked claim actually gives it credibility, to me. *shrug*

[House]

@T3: I dunno if you're Town or Scum, but delaying your full claim any further is scummy as hell. It gives the impression you're faking and afraid to specify lest you be CC'd. IF you're Towm you're dead already, unless you can convince a protective to be on you, and I doubt anyone will be convinced by "I'm an investigative"

Odd Night Traffic Analyst Even Night Neighbor Finder

Sorry, I misremembered.

PT Cop, neighbor finder, they look the same to me because both roles are new to me.

[House]

TheZenMan - lean town
House - lean town
Save The Dragons - lock town
Three - null town
T3
Jacket - scum
Dwlee99 - lean scum
HawaiianPizza - town

Do you have some raisins to go with that potato salad?

[House]

Jacket.

[House]

I do enjoy reading Greek.

Especially when it's written in English.

[House]

TheZenMan - lock town for being first to claim 1-shot bp in the hood which A50 confirmed.

Save The Dragons - I can't read this slot. Seems townish? But paranoia is hitting me

Three - lean town, seems solvy and I like his thought processes

T3 - not sure what to make of his claim; I expected him to claim blocked again today and the fact he outed a result was unexpected. Not today's lim, though. I want his TA results regardless of alignment. Then his flip will confirm them or wind up being a waste of time... but flipping him before getting those results is +scum if he does flip town.

Jacket - scum

Dwlee99 - lean town

HawaiianPizza - lean scum, not seeing why they're being townread. I don't see malicious intent, but I don't see solving.

[House]

Why do you think I'm scum, House?

See? Popcorn method is SO MUCH better because it leads to stuff like this!

I did not like your behavior during/after the A50 wagon.

Sure, I was on the wrong side of that disagreement, but you weren't exactly doing much to actively prevent the lim outside of saying you don't think he's scum (1 time, in 1593), then scolding us after the fact (1743).

[House]

Should have proofread that post, bunch of errors that make it look like shit.

I'm in no position to criticize anyone for typos, lol.

[House]

Nothing to do with the claiming, but okay.

I was actively protesting up until hammer by saying I didn't think the theories made sense. Granted, I was wrong about cookie, so it's not like I was much better. But cookie was actively lending supporting to killing multiple obvious town in almost50 an redtea who never made any sense as being part of a balanced setup. cookie may as well have been the 4th member of the mafia with the way fae was playing.

You deserve to be scolded for that vote if you're town. I'm not apologizing. If you want to let your emotions rule your decision-making, go ahead.

Popcorn method informed you of my read on you, lead you to ask me why, and here we are.

This wouldn't have happened if we had followed some arbitrary list.

Also, for all your shade on cookie during the A50 wagon...

you were voting T3

.

How are you supposed to exert influence when your vote doesn't match your push? That doesn't happen.

It didn't look to me during my overnight review that you wanted it to.

[House]

That doesn't even make sense. I still think T3's claim made sense for scum, and the way he's acted is scummy. Didn't like the way he jumped on my fua read. Felt like scum trying to a town's incorrect read.

I could be wrong, though.


This sounds less like any reason to think I'm scum and more punishing me for not playing the game the way you want.

It makes perfect sense.

Your vote is your most powerful weapon during the day.

You wasted it by pushing a different player.

Your vote on T3 was powerless because you were shading cool cookie instead of pushing T3.

Your shade of cool cookie was impotent because you weren't backing it up with your vote.

[House]

Throwing shade on town while avoiding being on a mislim & scolding town after the fact is pretty much textbook scum play, mon frere.

Wasting your vote by shading a different player reduces the chances the wagon actually shifts, because once town starts second guessing the narrative, officiality goes out the window.

[House]

Throwing shade on town while avoiding being on a mislim & scolding town after the fact is pretty much textbook scum play, mon frere.

Wasting your vote by shading a different player reduces the chances the wagon actually shifts, because once town starts second guessing the narrative, predictability* goes out the window.

EBWOP

[House]

I mean, the town I was scumreading is dead. Not sure how that works.

Not by elimination, so you're free of accountability for that loss.

But don't think for a second that I'm not aware that all the shade you threw on cookie didn't influence red tea, who most likely shot cookie instead of following through with confirming Three because he knew cookie was not a likely lim candidate (for good reason).

Your hands are not clean.

[House]

Hopefully I'll be correct, so I can say I did at least one thing right this game.

I would love for that to happen, and happily eat crow.

I'm just not seeing you as town, here.

[House]

Point taken on town being wrong at times.

Yesterday does hammer that point home.

I am still beyond confused at 2 town players having the exact same claim. That flies in the face of everything I know about this game.

[House]

Almost50 claimed bp to Zen

Zen claimed bp with the 1-shot modifier to Almost50.

That matched Almost's flip.

Any theory putting scum with an identical role as a townie in a neighborhood and the two claiming to each other in that way would be kinda hard to swallow.

[House]

2 townies with identical roles, however... also pretty fucking hard to swallow.

[House]

VT

Is that everyone?

Nope.

I was hoping someone else would claim a PR so I could lolcc them for funsies & drama.

I'm VT, though.

[House]

t3/dwlee is such a good pair and dwlee's votes on t3 feel like busses omfg im either extremely smart or super dumb

let's go

T3 is a possibility. Claiming investigative as scum weirds me out, though. If he's scum, he's not playing the long game.

dwlee, I'm not seeing. Lend me your eyeballs and show me what you see.

[House]

t3/dwlee is such a good pair and dwlee's votes on t3 feel like busses omfg im either extremely smart or super dumb

let's go

T3 is a possibility. Claiming investigative as scum weirds me out, though. If he's scum, he's not playing the long game.

dwlee, I'm not seeing. Lend me your eyeballs and show me what you see.

I don't think t3 as scum would be playing to endgame here, but there aren't any other investigatives so I actually think he might be town now after the mass claim. If someone isn't claiming something please do

That's where I've been sitting at.

2 quasi-investigatives in lieu of 1 actually investigative adds up.

Otherwise, town seems a little weak on information gathering.

[House]

Ascetic scum actually makes sense in a game with bulletproof townies as a scum counter to town's night immunity.

[House]

Complete tinfoil is Jacket (ascetic) + Zen (neighbor), both of which weren't worried that they could get guiltied so they left t3 alive

Not quite sold on that.

If scum had absolutely no fear of T3, I don't think both members would be itching to lim him.

Both of the players in your tinfoil are calling for his head, though.

If T3 is town, ascetic is possible but I don't think the entire team would be invulnerable.

Town power that has zero risk to scum makes no sense, whatsoever.

[House]

My tinfoil is that there will be no NK tonight if Zen is town because scum can't afford to go into endgame with a townie they can't kill.

[House]

im gay

There was this which could be a traitor crumb after redtea said gay = mafia

d1 shitposting being used like this is reachy, lol.

[House]

My issue with pizza is that he's been coasting up until today, and the reads that he has posted don't have much spice.

Calling Three town? Duh.
Calling me likely town? Duh.
Calling T3 scum? No surprise there.
Scolding over the A50 flip? I've made my feelings on that known.
Scumreading dwlee? Seems like a safe, "this guy isn't UT" take.
Zen is the only fairly spicy read, which a small part of me can't help but agree with because role shenannies paranoia.

[House]

My tinfoil is that there will be no NK tonight if Zen is town because scum can't afford to go into endgame with a townie they can't kill.

This would be true if everyone realised I was town, but not everyone do.

I mean, it's just common knowledge that scum can't afford to leave a 1-shot bp intact and have any hope of surviving long-term because they never know when that bp might just up and make themselves impossible to be eliminated.

Ngl, I'd

prefer

they do that if you're town instead of the alternative.

[House]

Excuse me for not wanting to walk softly into that good night.

This could well be my last chance to influence the game, so I'm not exactly ready to call it a day and wake up to oblivion.

[House]

idk what UT stands for. if you think both BP neighbours are town in this setup, be my guest ig?
why does there have to be an investigative?

UT = Universally townread.

Ngl, Zen bothers me, but I believed his claim over A50's

because

A50 confirmed he claimed 1-shot first in the hood.

1-shot is a fairly common modifier. A safer fake claim would be odd night, even night, non-consecutive, etc, BECAUSE they're less likely to be countered.

Town is weak on power with only redtea as an information gathering role. If that's true, it would suggest scum has very little power, but a roleblocker is contrary to that take.

[House]

Town is weak on power with only redtea as an information gathering role. If that's true, it would suggest scum has very little power, but a roleblocker is contrary to that take.

Which is why the ascetic makes so much more sense

So, with a bp traitor and an ascetic, who would be the 3rd scum in your theory? I refuse to believe 0 scum would be vulnerable to redtea.

That's just... no.

[House]

is the existence of a roleblocker confirmed somehow?

Ummm... I'm not sure, actually?

There's been a lot of chatter about it and this is the first time I've seen its existence questioned, so I was just rolling with it.

T3 is the only claimed role that gets active feedback about being roleblocked. redtea wouldn't necessarily know until after a flip he tried to vig, which hasn't come to pass at this point.

[House]

I think if t3 is my partner I would not let him claim like that. I'm not mech challenged

Considering you're pushing a world where scum has no fear of a vig OR traffic analyst, I'm inclined to disagree.

[House]

Town is weak on power with only redtea as an information gathering role. If that's true, it would suggest scum has very little power, but a roleblocker is contrary to that take.

Which is why the ascetic makes so much more sense

So, with a bp traitor and an ascetic, who would be the 3rd scum in your theory? I refuse to believe 0 scum would be vulnerable to redtea.

That's just... no.

Ascetic can get shot my guy

Oh.

Derp.

I got ascetic confused with Rolestopper effect.

Don't I feel like a hypocrite.

[House]

well, i assume T3 hasnt claimed being roleblocked.

No result means either roleblock or *side eyes dwlee* ascetic.

[House]

well, i assume T3 hasnt claimed being roleblocked.

No result means either roleblock or *side eyes dwlee* ascetic.

what are T3's actions

... I'm starting to wonder if this is a forced attempt at a dumbtell.

It's not like it was a single post and forgotten about. It was gnawed on for days.

Odd night TA (Jacket n1, no result)
Even night neighbor finder (dwlee n2, not a neighbor)

[House]

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Did you try to post an emoticon from your mobile keyboard?

If so, this board doesn't support that.

[House]

either of these actions could've been rbed is what you were trying to say?

No.

The result on Jacket, if legit, is the sign of either roleblocker or ascetic.

[House]

what
ok maybe im stupid but u lost me

Genuine question, are you new to the game entirely, or just new to this site?

Roleblocker prevents a role from taking any action. That means an investigational role would return, "No result".

Ascetic prevents any action from being taken ON them. That means the same as above, but is a passive role (meaning "always on") instead of active role (triggered).

[House]

Because I could be wrong and my scumread dies anyway, and because even if that doesn't happen, someone dying in the night narrows things down. Because unless there's a clear, you always vote no elim on ELO+1. This isn't the newbie queue, so you should know that.

Are you an alt?

[House]

What do you think?

I think you should answer my question.

It's not like I'm going to ask your main if you say yes.

[House]

What do you think?

I think you should answer my question.

It's not like I'm going to ask your main if you say yes.

Too subtle for you?

Yeah, this isn't my first account. Obviously.

Yes. I don't do subtle.

The reason I asked is because an actual newbie making a comment about this game being outside the newbie queue would not feel at all natural as this would have been your first game on site.

[House]

i'm just going to tune out of everything jacket says

Your loss. He's a gas.

[House]

What is this, battle of the alts?

[House]

I think three is just off-site not an alt

Not MU, surely?

I don't think they could handle the culture shock.

[House]

This is going nowhere.

I'm over it.

VOTE: no lim

[House]

This day is like a tree trunk.

Limless.

*Ba dum tss*

[House]

i have solved the game.

accepting pizza orders tonight.

Ham, extra mushrooms, pineapple, sand extra cheese, with stuffed crust.

If stuffed crust is not an option, large deep dish.

[House]

i have solved the game.

accepting pizza orders tonight.

Ham, extra mushrooms, pineapple, and* extra cheese, with stuffed crust.

If stuffed crust is not an option, large deep dish.

EBWOP

[House]

This day is like a tree trunk.

Limless.

*Ba dum tss*

bruh

You should be grateful.

I could have said amputee.

[House]

i have solved the game.

accepting pizza orders tonight.

Ham, extra mushrooms, pineapple, and* extra cheese, with stuffed crust.

If stuffed crust is not an option, large deep dish.

EBWOP

understood. we will have to slaughter a pig and process its meat real quick, then go to the nearest forest and pick extra mushrooms (don't worry, we are experienced), as well as tell an employee he's going to brazil to collect the finest pineapples. i have already made sure to visit local farms and milk a few cows to create the quality cheese needed for our great pizzas. preparation -including baking the damn thing- should take around 1-2 days and delivery will hopefully take less than an hour assuming we still remember your order until then. thank you for choosing us. that will be $68.95.

I refuse to pay a cent under $125 for a quality pie.

[House]

i have solved the game.

accepting pizza orders tonight.

Ham, extra mushrooms, pineapple, and* extra cheese, with stuffed crust.

If stuffed crust is not an option, large deep dish.

EBWOP

understood. we will have to slaughter a pig and process its meat real quick, then go to the nearest forest and pick extra mushrooms (don't worry, we are experienced), as well as tell an employee he's going to brazil to collect the finest pineapples. i have already made sure to visit local farms and milk a few cows to create the quality cheese needed for our great pizzas. preparation -including baking the damn thing- should take around 1-2 days and delivery will hopefully take less than an hour assuming we still remember your order until then. thank you for choosing us. that will be $68.95.

I refuse to pay a cent under $125 for a quality pie.

sure, thank you for supporting our business. we would be grateful if you also paid for the employee's plane tickets.

Ok, but business class.

And i better get napkins!

[House]

So.

Three being the nk was... unexpected.

I've got a theory marinating in my cranium, but I can't dedicate the time to construct the post explaining it right this minute.

It will come later tonight or tomorrow morning. I need to get some food in me and take care of things around the house.

[House]

Jacket, convince me you're town
I'm like
going to vote you
but convince me you're town

*pops in*

Results?

*pops out*

[House]

So, here's where I am...

Town
T3 - I believe the claim, absent a cc. A bulletproof neighbor, informed mailman, & gated vig that gives imperfect information does not seem to be enough power against a scum roleblocker, bulletproof traitor, and Anubis only knows what else.
Dwlee99 - I can't go into details on this read, but I have experience with both town & scum dwlee and this is looking like town dwlee.
Jacket - dude just oozes town. He's actively solving, and his reads organically evolve.

Scum
Save The Dragons
HawaiianPizza
TheZenMan - Probably traitor? But honestly my preferred lim because this is the strongest red read I have. The others are PoE. I just can't accept 2 town having identical roles. Years of playing Mafia across multiple sites & f2f, this has never happened. Fucking shenanigans.

[House]

If redtea had not been gated, there would be room to doubt T3, but his modifier gives him too much negative utility for town not to have another way to investigate.

[House]

If redtea had been Disloyal vig, I'd be demanding T3's head on a platter.

[House]

If redtea had been Disloyal vig, I'd be demanding T3's head on a platter.

Fix't

[House]

I'm going to claim. I'm an Informed Townie. I know there is a Bulletproof Mafia Traitor in the game. I think the quotes below are Redtea signalling to the rest of the mafia that they are said traitor, partly given it was a really weird out-on-a-limb connection to make in the context of the discussion to that point, and partly because there are very few reasons to make such an effort to hint that you are mafia-aligned, other than being the mafia traitor.

(Translator's Note: gay means mafia-aligned)

im gay

VOTE: redtea

I could be wrong, but there's nothing really lost by me claiming anyway as that's my only power.

like, I'm very collaborative. Unless I'm dead-fucking-sure I'm right, I listen to what town suggests, and especially in this situation. If people don't recommend using it for now, that's fine. I think that's the way to go based on what info we have now too.

in which case, you become effectively vanilla. so why not elim you?

true. Does that point two 2 mafia prs then not counting the traitor, assuming the mod didn't have some odd idea then? And assuming I'm town ofc.

The fact you're gated and the traitor is immune is what makes me think the scum team has one PR & one goon, if your claim is real.

Quasi-investigatives typically have false positives/negatives.

ah yeah, that reminds me, the traitor is NK immune + gated (no specifics given beyond that). forgot to say that as i didn't really think it mattered, but perhaps it would be helpful when the traitor was trying to fashion a fakeclaim to also gate themselves.

If the traitor's modifier is 1-shot, I can see Zen true-claiming his role to Almost in the hood.

That's the world that makes the most sense to me, here.

[House]

Was yesterday really enough to get me to go from scum to town for you?

Yes.

I really did take your point about town'ability to be dreadfully wrong on board, as I noted in 1825.

My hands aren't clean, either. I had a hand in A50's elimination.

My hypocrisy came home to me.

That's why I got off your back yesterday.

[House]

Was yesterday really enough to get me to go from scum to town for you?

Yes.

I really did take your point about town's ability to be dreadfully wrong on board, as I noted in 1825.

My hands aren't clean, either. I had a hand in A50's elimination.

My hypocrisy came home to me.

That's why I got off your back yesterday.

Fix't. Geez.

[House]

So, here's where I am...

Town
T3 - I believe the claim, absent a cc. A bulletproof neighbor, informed mailman, & gated vig that gives imperfect information does not seem to be enough power against a scum roleblocker, bulletproof traitor, and Anubis only knows what else.
Dwlee99 - I can't go into details on this read, but I have experience with both town & scum dwlee and this is looking like town dwlee.
Jacket - dude just oozes town. He's actively solving, and his reads organically evolve.

Scum
Save The Dragons
HawaiianPizza
TheZenMan - Probably traitor? But honestly my preferred lim because this is the strongest red read I have. The others are PoE. I just can't accept 2 town having identical roles. Years of playing Mafia across multiple sites & f2f, this has never happened. Fucking shenanigans.

Do you think t3 and I are just super wrong then?

Either you 2 are, or I am.

Obviously.

Just curious, what answer did you expect, here?

[House]

But like why

I have a good ELO accuracy historically

Although I'm gonna do a reeval so we should see but

Well, unless I'm wrong on you, T3, or Jacket, I have to be right.

My strongest reads are T3 (via role claim) and Jacket (strong town play, overall).

You haven't been amazingly productive here, outside of being on the right side of the A50 wagon. My read of you is mainly based on meta.

Am I wrong?

[House]

GG all!

Than Kyou!

[House]

GG all!

Than Kyou!

You’re welcome House. Couldn’t do it without your good start.

I was really worried that my replacement would burn my universal townread.

You did a great job keeping things together and seeing it through to the end.

Well done.

[House]

@T3: I'm really sorry for nearly leading your elimination.

Fortunately, I found your crumbs in the nick of time.

[House]

Where is the scumthread?

Also, can scumteam or T3 show where T3 crumbed he was traitor to you?

I posted one of the crumbs at the end of the dead thread.

[House]

House why am I voting you?

We're distancing, remember?

Aren't we all

Just look at that quote pyramid.

LOOK AT IT!

T3 your one attempt at meta on me was doing this same exact wishy washy thing where you shade me and then do a ~idk~ at the end and you were scum

Good thing I don't believe in meta

This is a legit mta tell.

mta = Mafia Traffic Analyst (my speculation)

[House]

But yeah... T3 flipping would have been a Very Bad Thing.

[House]

House why am I voting you?

We're distancing, remember?

Aren't we all

Just look at that quote pyramid.

LOOK AT IT!

T3 your one attempt at meta on me was doing this same exact wishy washy thing where you shade me and then do a ~idk~ at the end and you were scum

Good thing I don't believe in meta

This is a legit mta tell.

mta = Mafia Traffic Analyst (my speculation)

LMAO
the secomd one actually wasn't a crumb. just a typo

And here I was thinking you were just going to pass it off AS a typo if town picked it up

Would have been pretty slick, IMHO.

[House]

What I took exception to on a personal level was using the anti-town faction term as a broad generalization, specifically.

[House]

Oh AND kyouko ur yellow text sux to read on lighter modes and on mobile especially - consider changing it pls in the future it hurts my eyes

Irrelevant, considering mafBlack is the best skin & yellow rocks on it.

[House]

stumbled on this thread looking at new york, some1 already nom dwlee for don corlerone im too lazy lol

Yeah, I was planning on selling the original player in his slot out in order to salvage any chance I had to win.

dw repping in was extremely helpful. We have good chemistry as a scum team.