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[Datisi]

am i insane for thinking that baltar might be the nightkill and the outworld kill might be a vig shot? because it's either that, or baltar died visiting someone last night, and scum killed outworld, and like... i don't know why scum kills outworld there...

[Datisi]

oh yeah i had some thoughts on this game or something idk

i thought how it was weird that s_s commented how skitter probably doesn't get run up as scum, but like, didn't bother to do *much* to dissolve that wagon, that felt kinda performative

VOTE: s_s

also, i am 100% ready to get shit for this, but i am also scumreading math to the point where i'm wondering if he's a mafia ascetic - though i have to think about whether isis would actually do that to us

mmm, gypyx is a reviewer so the answer might be yes, we'll see

[Datisi]

Yes that's insane tinfoil IMO and a little scummy.

what's scummy about wondering who was the nightkill and who was the vigshot based on the fact that there has been a vig-related role claimed, and based on the fact that a scummy person got killed lols

[Datisi]

Trying to muddy the water on the nk is scummy. It's obvious who scum shot.

so... i'm scummy because... i correctly called out who was the vig shot?

[Datisi]

you know what

YOU KNOW WHAT

VOTE: mathblade

mafia commuter, i'm fucking calling it

i spent the last 48 hours thinking how either my reads are wrong (strong tr on vp, scumread on math) or the reality is wrong, and it might just be that the reality was wrong

[Datisi]

Sorry for Outworld flipping green.

That was my best guess.

I'd sooner yeet you.

the fact that these two posts are one after the other is some major oof from me, boss

who's scum then? the couterwagon to lapla on d1 was made out of skitt, vp, and you. i'm treating you as town, the other two are flipped. is doesn't make any sense

this game doesn't make sense with math being town

unless the scum is like, iv/andre and they've spent the whole game twiddling their fucking thumbs while we push each other into oblivion

[Datisi]

I see one important commonality between the wagon that pushed Laplacian (which I am also inclined to think contained a busser mind you, though why Mathblade insisted so hard in starting there is well beyond me), and the Skitter wagon, and that’s Frogsterking.

didn't both me and ari also be on both of those wagons? and math-slot for that matter?

[Datisi]

weren't we both on those wagons* jfc english is difficult

i'll read the posts you linked in a bit, but the thing is, wrt 2011, if a scum player actually is planning to make such a huge fucking case against their buddy like frogs did against lapla, i think they would never ever get off from that wagon because at that point, the whole idea is to bus them into the ground and reap towncred from the redflip

[Datisi]

VPB’s clear

roleblocker
rolestopper
jailkeeper
alien
ascetic
commuter
math is scummy (:(:(:(:(:(::(:(:(:(

[Datisi]

baltar didn't crumb his n1 action, he crashed a truck full of bread

[Datisi]

i think s_s is the other

if i poweryeet scum today, will you trust me and get math tomorrow

[Datisi]

ok i lied i'm not that certain on s_s, i have no clue who the third is

but like, my point of "math's actions at the end of d2 were Extremely Sketch and the wagon on a50 on d1 makes no sense, to the point where i might even be ready to yeet through a 'clear'" still stands

[Datisi]

baltar didn't crumb his n1 action, he crashed a truck full of bread

^^^^

it doesn't have to be an ascetic or commuter. it might be a blocking role. other than vpb (who can get clears) we also have a vigilante in town. i don't think it's outside the realm of possibility that scumfucks have a roleblocker or jailkeeper or whatever.

and no, the slot is already claimed as a n1 vig backup or some bs like that

[Datisi]

It's damn strange we only had ONE death overnight. I was a "Town N1 Backup Vig".

this role only makes sense if we yeet a vigilante on day 1 and he gets to shoot night 1

obviously i know a50 can fakeclaim as either alignment but lol

[Datisi]

my hottest of hot takes is that scum is math + 1 out of s_s and iv and that this whole fight is going to be a huge waste of time

i am also debating a massclaim because if the town's power levels are too high, it gets more and more likely scum has a blocking role

[Datisi]

If scum have a roleblocker or jailkeeper, VP would still be alive to continue singing scumBlade's inno.

math is smarter than that - IF he's scum, they blocked vp n1, and vp started screaming how math is town (+ vp's "if i die kill a50), i don't think it's a reach to say that scum figured out vp is something with a weak modifier

if they then leave vp alive, it makes it so that vp likely gets what he thinks is a clear, and that shrinks the yeet pool

this way, they lock the "inno" in and can just attack anyone who dares to suggest it's a false negative

[Datisi]

because i 100% guarantee you that math is going to enter this game screaming how i am scum for trying to suggest the clear is false

the thing is, throughout the whole night, i kept arriving at math!scum and vp!town and i was genuinely wondering if vp decided to go full clown and fake the inno - but the current turn of events makes even more sense

[Datisi]

All the same, the correct time to worry about the possibility of a false inno is... idk, not now. Later.

unless you have an extra shot (don't answer that), we have one misyeet before mylo

i think this is the perfect time to worry about it

[Datisi]

i have to go do other things now

i'll be back a bit later today to read andres's case against frogs and see what i think about it

[Datisi]

because house claimed the outworld kill? just a guess, though.

[Datisi]

So IV is obvious scum then, no?

why is that?

[Datisi]

math + iv

game solved (:

[Datisi]

math, you claiming your own guilty or you pretending you don't know baltar was the scum kill?

[Datisi]

ahahahahaAHAHAHHA yeah ok math is scum

because town definitely has more incentive to remember claims than scum does

and because you totally can't backtrack a50's lolclaim, SUREEE

[Datisi]

and besides, no way town!me tries to get scum to fakeclaim guilties that aren't possible

not at all

[Datisi]

there is a claimed vig shot on outworld, lmfao

i can't wait for the "well ok vp's n2 action doesn't mean anything but datisi is still scum"

[Datisi]

ahahahahaAHAHAHHA yeah ok math is scum

because town definitely has more incentive to remember claims than scum does

and because you totally can't backtrack a50's lolclaim, SUREEE

After n1 passed, a n1 backup is essentially a named townie.

i am aware of that, thank you

i am saying that a50 has a history of bullshit claims so it's not out the realm of possibility that someone goes "ok a50 was actually fakeclaiming, i'm something else entirely"

[Datisi]

I think VP visited you.
Vig shot could have happened on Outworld like crumbed but I think VP visited you and if scum shot VP then double shot.

So I think Datisi is scum here

You think..

scum...

double...

shot...

???

???

nah, he's saying that if scum shot outworld, then vp died because he visited me

and if scum shot vp, he doubly died because he visited me and because he got shot

basically math is completely ignoring the fact that he'll have to come to the conclusion that vp's n2 action doesn't mean anything because he has to push me here

[Datisi]

Assume Outworlder was vigged
Assume scum kill anywhere else
Assume VP visited Datisi

Datisi is guilty.

like come on there is no way in three hells that town!math doesn't stop to think for two seconds and understand that vp was shot by scum therefore any visit means absolutely nothing

[Datisi]

I think VP visited you.
Vig shot could have happened on Outworld like crumbed but I think VP visited you and if scum shot VP then double shot.

So I think Datisi is scum here

You think..

scum...

double...

shot...

???

???

I think Datisi had to shoot there to prevent a 100% guilty.

Assume Outworlder was vigged
Assume scum kill anywhere else
Assume VP visited Datisi

Datisi is guilty.

like this is circular reasoning

"datisi is scum because vp visited him"
"datisi shot vp to not get guiltied"

LIKE

[Datisi]

"datisi is scum because vp visited him"
"datisi shot vp to not get guiltied"

you can't have both of these

if i'm scum because vp visited me, then where's the scumkill

if i'm scum that shot vp, then his visit is meaningless

[Datisi]

1428 happened 20 HOURS before end of d2

calling that his last post is utter bullshit

[Datisi]

i actually do think vp visited me because i think he'd be eating himself into a paranoid mess about me here

but i'm not scum
he was shot
his visit is meaningless
math is scum

[Datisi]

Has a crumbed guilty on him

HE WAS SHOT BY SCUM THE GUILTY IS MEANINGLESS

[Datisi]

math is trying to use circular logic of me both being guiltied by vpb and me having shot him to not get guiltied, weak roles do not work like that

math is bs'ing about me fitting vca patterns after i started hardpushing lapla on page fucking 8 and after his slot did a shady af hammer and had an all-town counterwagon on them

math is calling me scum for shading an inno that happened after a weak role didn't die, and after that said weak role HEAVILY crumbed their night action

[Datisi]

Has a crumbed guilty on him

HE WAS SHOT BY SCUM THE GUILTY IS MEANINGLESS

Was he though?

if you wanna retract your vig claim for funsies to have me killed, have fun, just kill math tomorrow

[Datisi]

because i am definitely the type of egoistical masochistic asshole to plan a bus on page 8, you got it

i know how weak roles work, that's why i'm calling the inno bullshit

have fun with vig fishing i guess

[Datisi]

iv+math

i had this stupid game solved on page 14

[Datisi]

s_s, you're the mech guy, and i think you had some reviews with isis

is she likely to put a fucky counterplay to the vpb role?

[Datisi]

Otherwise it’s a guilty on you as there is no vig

aren't you allegedly a backup n1 vig lol???

[Datisi]

good job math, you fished out the vigilante

[Datisi]

i'll put this out there now: the only time i will be moving my mathblade vote will be when iv hits y-1

you have been warned

[Datisi]

there are no protectives because any town protective with at least one brain cell would've been on baltar yesterday

house dies tonight

[Datisi]

andres and frogster are tvt and their mutual shittunnel is going to be very damaging to this town

[Datisi]

Would rather cooperate with pew pew and cycle back to Datisi tomorrow

@vpb: *this* is what scum chaining looks like, dude

[Datisi]

andres and frogster are tvt and their mutual shittunnel is going to be very damaging to this town

How confident are you that it's TvT?

confident enough that i think there's nothing good to come from the two of you fighting today

[Datisi]

Why did he FoS me then?

because he's not omniscient? what kinda question is this

[Datisi]

How are you so sure it's TvT?

Also if IV flips scum does it clear S_S?

i'm townreading both of you, if you want me to write a case on both of you i can, but that will have to wait

i would assume so, but i think math is scum so /shrug

[Datisi]

your observation that andres vote was one of the ones which looked most bus like.

this was not my observation

my observation was that a50's looked like a bus, everyone else's looked clean

[Datisi]

when you have three exams in the next three days but someone on the internet is wrong:

on the subject of town!frogsterking:

first, things that independently make me think that frogster is town.

410 struck me as townie re-evaluation of baltar, the person they were sure is scum. look at how he talks about baltar in the posts prior (300, 329, 333, 338, 342, 362,

especially

399 which is their last post before 410). scum is generally very unlikely to be doing these sort of "jumps" in reasoning and trajectory because they'll be trying for consistency. town doesn't care about consistency, town cares about getting their shit out and solving the game.

and we see it again, in 418. not only is frogs jumping from one read to another, which is something that scum generally doesn't do or finds difficult to fake, he's also outing takes that... i don't think scum outs. the ideas present in this post, that baltar is toxic or that house is scum setting up a baltar/house/frogster yelo... scum doesn't come up with shit like that. see the explanation in 557. reads like these require creativity, that is generally not present in scum. we also see similar jumps shortly after frogs posts the survey and starts townreading rtp because of their response to it.

then we have the effort posts. stuff like 592, 1012, 1063. i think you will very rarely find scum that puts this much

effort

into cases, especially on day 1 and especially when it's not immediately needed. then posts like 785 and 719, they show that frogs is looking into meta of people, but it's not in-your-face "look at me i'm solving" meta case that it often looks like when scum does it, it's more quiet and mentioned in passing. then, we have 1729, which is a callback to day one's survey results - it shows that frogs is actually using the results and it wasn't just for show.

then, lap>frogs interactions.

admittedly there isn't much, because the dude has only like 16 posts, but. (1) i still believe that 182 is good reasoning to townread frogs, because laplacian is

scared

of frogster scumreading him, that's why he added the "if he posts the survey" nonsense. then, notice who laplacian townreads. house (174), rtp (175), frogster & datisi (458). flipped town, cleared town, andres's hard townread, and frogster. notice a pattern?

(also, sidenote, i just noticed the one and only scumread laplacian had was innocentvillager in 203, haha. anyway.)

finally, frogs>lap interactions.

now, you could argue that 592 is a bus. and frankly, i *could* see it as a bus. however, i think some events happened that simply do not happen if frogster and laplacian are both scum. first, laplacian actually bites back on frogster. the "oh this case is garbage ahaha" bullshit in 777. if those two are partners, the idea is to make frogs look good upon the flip. so frogs would probably help lapla make a countercase. it didn't get posted because scum didn't want to *further* spew frogster town upon lapla's scumflip. (this could maybe go n the above section, but fuck it whatever you get the point.)

furthermore, i don't think any scum ever in frogster's position posts 901, or 924, or 945, or the insanity of the scumcase on iv that was 1012. at the time, lapla's wagon has a lot of supporters. some of those are loud supporters, like me and rtp. lapla is nowhere to be seen and i don't think it takes a scum mastermind to realize he's probably going down. and, if frogs is scum, the moment 592 was posted, it was sealed that lapla is going to end up bussed. now, here's the thing. imagine you're frogsterking. you're bussing your poor teammate into the fucking ground. there's a huge wagon on him. do you:

a) keep screaming that he's scum, he flips red, you're looking town as fuck, and you push misyeets the rest of the game, OR
b) make a huge fucking scumcase on a townie that has next to NO VOTES on them

because if you do b). best case scenario is that that misyeet goes through on d1, poor lapla falls on d2, and you're left looking like shit. while, if you do a), and then push that same misyeet on d2, you're still looking decently well after the fact.

here's another thing, scum isn't stupid. scum knows how things like these look. they wouldn't fucking dare to post something like 1012 in that gamestate, because they're very much aware it can come back to bite them in the ass later. and they never count on having someone like me in town who's gonna be writing this case, they can't. so frogster is either one of the ballsiest motherfuckers i've seen, or he's town.

on the subject of town!andresvmb:

this one is a bit more... shakier, but still. the first thing is that andres tonally vibes to me like he always does as town. now, there is a note here that i've never seen andres as scum so i cannot exactly say how tonally similar the two are, but it's a point in his favour.

then, posts like 593 and 601. i don't think scum!andres posts this. at that point, rtp is already voting laplacian. why does he put himself in this position where he is forced to vote his ow partner? not only that, he is PRAISING rtp's d1 reads. why??? but, for the sake of argument, let's say that he has to do that, because if he doesn't, rtp will realize andres isn't being his usual self and will kill him. okay. the reason why andres doesn't strike me as a busser here is because andres never said *anything* about laplacian. his whole reason for voting lap was because rtp is voting there and so that he can sort rtp with that. i think scum in his position would be very likely to, if they're forced to bus, to make up bullshit on why they actually definitely think lap is scum. because this way, they are helpng the wagon along, but once people look back at his play, they're gonna think how andres didn't actually *push* the wagon, which automatically makes his vote weigh much much less.

the other option for scum!andres would be to vote the wagon, not help it along, and look for an opening away from that wagon and to vote someone else. he didn't do this. i really think scum that's bussing is going to be doing either of those things - either maximising the clout they get from the flip, or looking for another opening to attack elsewhere. frogster did both, and at the times it made no sense, andres did neither. i just. i just don't think there's scum in these two. because like, if andres has lowkey given up on the game, why even help the wagon on his buddy along in the first place? if he's helping it along, why not give it more reasoning than "idk lol i wanna sort rtp"? it makes no sense

---

this is probably gonna be the most of my effort for the next 2 and a half days, because, uh. will be a bit busy. i'll definitely still be around and paying attention, but yeah.

[Datisi]

datisi: *writes a case on why frogster and andresvmb are town in order to stop them from shittunneling each other*

math: eFfOrT iS nAi

one, nobody asked. two, the case wasn't written to get me townread, it was written to stop town tunnelling town. three, everyone except you townreads me, i don't need your approval.

[Datisi]

when you have three exams in the next three days but someone on the internet is wrong:

on the subject of town!frogsterking:

first, things that independently make me think that frogster is town.

410 struck me as townie re-evaluation of baltar, the person they were sure is scum. look at how he talks about baltar in the posts prior (300, 329, 333, 338, 342, 362,

especially

399 which is their last post before 410). scum is generally very unlikely to be doing these sort of "jumps" in reasoning and trajectory because they'll be trying for consistency. town doesn't care about consistency, town cares about getting their shit out and solving the game.

and we see it again, in 418. not only is frogs jumping from one read to another, which is something that scum generally doesn't do or finds difficult to fake, he's also outing takes that... i don't think scum outs. the ideas present in this post, that baltar is toxic or that house is scum setting up a baltar/house/frogster yelo... scum doesn't come up with shit like that. see the explanation in 557. reads like these require creativity, that is generally not present in scum. we also see similar jumps shortly after frogs posts the survey and starts townreading rtp because of their response to it.

then we have the effort posts. stuff like 592, 1012, 1063. i think you will very rarely find scum that puts this much

effort

into cases, especially on day 1 and especially when it's not immediately needed. then posts like 785 and 719, they show that frogs is looking into meta of people, but it's not in-your-face "look at me i'm solving" meta case that it often looks like when scum does it, it's more quiet and mentioned in passing. then, we have 1729, which is a callback to day one's survey results - it shows that frogs is actually using the results and it wasn't just for show.

then, lap>frogs interactions.

admittedly there isn't much, because the dude has only like 16 posts, but. (1) i still believe that 182 is good reasoning to townread frogs, because laplacian is

scared

of frogster scumreading him, that's why he added the "if he posts the survey" nonsense. then, notice who laplacian townreads. house (174), rtp (175), frogster & datisi (458). flipped town, cleared town, andres's hard townread, and frogster. notice a pattern?

(also, sidenote, i just noticed the one and only scumread laplacian had was innocentvillager in 203, haha. anyway.)

finally, frogs>lap interactions.

now, you could argue that 592 is a bus. and frankly, i *could* see it as a bus. however, i think some events happened that simply do not happen if frogster and laplacian are both scum. first, laplacian actually bites back on frogster. the "oh this case is garbage ahaha" bullshit in 777. if those two are partners, the idea is to make frogs look good upon the flip. so frogs would probably help lapla make a countercase. it didn't get posted because scum didn't want to *further* spew frogster town upon lapla's scumflip. (this could maybe go n the above section, but fuck it whatever you get the point.)

furthermore, i don't think any scum ever in frogster's position posts 901, or 924, or 945, or the insanity of the scumcase on iv that was 1012. at the time, lapla's wagon has a lot of supporters. some of those are loud supporters, like me and rtp. lapla is nowhere to be seen and i don't think it takes a scum mastermind to realize he's probably going down. and, if frogs is scum, the moment 592 was posted, it was sealed that lapla is going to end up bussed. now, here's the thing. imagine you're frogsterking. you're bussing your poor teammate into the fucking ground. there's a huge wagon on him. do you:

a) keep screaming that he's scum, he flips red, you're looking town as fuck, and you push misyeets the rest of the game, OR
b) make a huge fucking scumcase on a townie that has next to NO VOTES on them

because if you do b). best case scenario is that that misyeet goes through on d1, poor lapla falls on d2, and you're left looking like shit. while, if you do a), and then push that same misyeet on d2, you're still looking decently well after the fact.

here's another thing, scum isn't stupid. scum knows how things like these look. they wouldn't fucking dare to post something like 1012 in that gamestate, because they're very much aware it can come back to bite them in the ass later. and they never count on having someone like me in town who's gonna be writing this case, they can't. so frogster is either one of the ballsiest motherfuckers i've seen, or he's town.

on the subject of town!andresvmb:

this one is a bit more... shakier, but still. the first thing is that andres tonally vibes to me like he always does as town. now, there is a note here that i've never seen andres as scum so i cannot exactly say how tonally similar the two are, but it's a point in his favour.

then, posts like 593 and 601. i don't think scum!andres posts this. at that point, rtp is already voting laplacian. why does he put himself in this position where he is forced to vote his ow partner? not only that, he is PRAISING rtp's d1 reads. why??? but, for the sake of argument, let's say that he has to do that, because if he doesn't, rtp will realize andres isn't being his usual self and will kill him. okay. the reason why andres doesn't strike me as a busser here is because andres never said *anything* about laplacian. his whole reason for voting lap was because rtp is voting there and so that he can sort rtp with that. i think scum in his position would be very likely to, if they're forced to bus, to make up bullshit on why they actually definitely think lap is scum. because this way, they are helpng the wagon along, but once people look back at his play, they're gonna think how andres didn't actually *push* the wagon, which automatically makes his vote weigh much much less.

the other option for scum!andres would be to vote the wagon, not help it along, and look for an opening away from that wagon and to vote someone else. he didn't do this. i really think scum that's bussing is going to be doing either of those things - either maximising the clout they get from the flip, or looking for another opening to attack elsewhere. frogster did both, and at the times it made no sense, andres did neither. i just. i just don't think there's scum in these two. because like, if andres has lowkey given up on the game, why even help the wagon on his buddy along in the first place? if he's helping it along, why not give it more reasoning than "idk lol i wanna sort rtp"? it makes no sense

---

this is probably gonna be the most of my effort for the next 2 and a half days, because, uh. will be a bit busy. i'll definitely still be around and paying attention, but yeah.

reposting for next page

[Datisi]

also note how math doesn't say what about the case is wrong or scummy, math doesn't consider the motivations behind writing it, math just instantly screams how i am Still Scum because he knows he has to kill me

[Datisi]

You’re saying that frogster is town because “ then we have the effort posts. stuff like 592, 1012, 1063. i think you will very rarely find scum that puts this much effort into cases, especially on day 1”

i said a lot of other reasons why frogster is town, but sure, pick out the one line which you can "debunk" (except not really, because frogster is not you and people are on average more efforty as town than as scum)

[Datisi]

I find that cases like this are when people are desperate.

Town should not be desperate

god forbid i want to stop two people that i townread from tunnelling each other

[Datisi]

collect town points

FROM WHO

everyone townreads me except for you

and frankly i do not care about your read on me because you're scum

[Datisi]

"here's frogs jumping with his reads in a way i don't think scum does, here's frogs noticing things that i don't think scum does, here's frogs making effort-cases in a way i don't think scum does, here's frogs diverting from the scum!wagon at the time and in the way i don't think scum does, here's flipped scum interacting with frogs in a non-partnery way"

"wow lamist because you didn't try to make them up in a way i want you to!!"

[Datisi]

VP scumread you
I scumread you

vp is dead and i don't give a shit about his town points right now
you're scum and i don't care about your read on me

people who are town townread me (except s_s who i think has a perpetual null on me but he's voting iv so it's ok)

[Datisi]

I was taught a long time ago in livechat mafia that weak votes are another sign of bussing in addition to the signs you mentioned, so I'm a little skeptical of that aspect. I'm open to rethinking that though and I definitely don't claim to be an expert on this topic, especially on forum mafia.

At the moment I'm interpreting Math v Dats to be TvT but I think Dats has an edge case based on what S_S said about setup review.

chat mafia yes, forum mafia no - andres would've had enoguh time to either decide to not post the asskissing posts towards rtp that locked him into voting lap, or he would've made up good reasons why he himself definitely wants to vote lap, OR he would've tried to open a push elsewhere

math isn't town, i know it's going to be a hard sell because everyone's gonna be like "but the clear!!" but the thing is, math has absolutely nothing going for him other than the clear, a50's play was atrocious, math's logic on me is circular and horrible, and he's trying to get townies to fight (attacking on the skitter and lap wagons, iv was on neither)

[Datisi]

math isn't town, i know it's going to be a hard sell because everyone's gonna be like "but the clear!!" but the thing is, math has absolutely nothing going for him other than the clear

so how did A50 know there was a vig

a) lucky guess
b) informed
c) scum has a role that goes with vigilante

[Datisi]

like, how hilarious would it be if iv was the jailkeeper, and math was scum n1 informed of vigilante existing

[Datisi]

it wouldn't need to be luck. it's not unheard of that mods put backups for roles that don't exist. a n1 backup vig with no actual vig would have a point of being a false guilty for a neap, vanilla cop, or gunsmith. i'm not saying he was aiming at there being a vig, just that it was a coincidence there was one.

[Datisi]

i mean... as a person who often claims nonsense as scum, my experience tells me that people VERY MUCH believe it.

[Datisi]

i can hear rtp from the dead thread

they're screaming about us getting lost in pointless wifom mech discussion instead of killing scum

[Datisi]

I can hear him screaming how they were wrong about you sir and bemoaning it
How VP is screaming you’re scum

them*

also rtp has never misread me and they sure didn't start now

vp probably is scumreaing i'm scum, i'll give you that lol

[Datisi]

s_s, my issue with that is that very recently i've had a game where scum did actually claim backup vigilante, and they had some roles that pretty much gave it away there is a vig in play

like, i don't think it's so out of this world that scum sees a jailkeeper or gunsmith or whatever and thinks there's a vig

besides, this is a50.

[Datisi]

something about making sure everyone has said their peace, iv has a chance to claim, y'know boring shit like that

[Datisi]

"Town N1 Backup Vig"

mm, s_s, you say scum doesn't claim this because it likely doesn't get believed. does this role make sense as town? like, the only way this role isn't a vc/neap/gunsmith miller is if a vigilante gets yeeted day 1. that is very unlikely to happen. and this role can exist as a vc/neap/gunsmith miller regardless. so.

[Datisi]

the only way this role isn't a vc/neap/gunsmith miller is if a vigilante gets yeeted day 1

killed night 1, you mean?

no. he claimed "town n1 backup vig". that is, a vigilante that can only shoot on n1, if a vigilante has previously died, no?

[Datisi]

or is that a backup that only inherits the vigilante role if a vigilante dies on n1?

that's horrible design though, punishing scum for sniping a power role on n1.

[Datisi]

backup N1 vig

this would be a backup to a n1 vig, not any vig.

in either case, if that role is real, i wonder what isis was on when designing this and would like to have some of it.

[Datisi]

Does this increase the chances of 4 scum??

no.

anyway. gunsmith miller. doesn't require a vig. i don't think this claim is townie. carry on.

[Datisi]

it was known in signups that that was gonna be a 4-scum game

there is no way there is a 4-scum game without it being announced somewhere

[Datisi]

Because then he doesn’t have to give reads on the actual game or be productive.

...

so, my townreads on frogs and andres are... not reads on the actual game? getting them to stop tunneling each other is not productive? it doesn't count because i'm trying to grab vp's townpoints? okay.

[Datisi]

...this is a joke, right? there's no way you're actually saying that with a straight face, right?

[Datisi]

My thoughts are you tried to LAMIST your buddy town

have you considered actually voting one of us then?

and like. i have looked at ari. i have looked at frogs. i've looked at them on day 2, and i relooked at frogs on day 3. the fact that you're ignoring that so you can say that i DoN't hAvE rEaDs is not my problem, i'll just call out the nonsense when you say it.

[Datisi]

You didn’t look.

with all due respect, i call bullshit.

[Datisi]

or is that a backup that only inherits the vigilante role if a vigilante dies on n1?

that's horrible design though, punishing scum for sniping a power role on n1.

Scum can't be vig in normals anyway, so

nothing stopping them from fakeclaiming one, though.

s_s, is that the only response you have to math's last page?

[Datisi]

so... you don't have any thoughts on math's response to you asking why i'm still efforting?

[Datisi]

oooh, spicy.

well, my second choice of push is iv, and i don't want a y-1, so.

[Datisi]

math's death wish almost makes me wanna reconsider

but i am still townreading everyone except him and iv so i guess

[Datisi]

Because I don’t believe you’re a multi shot vig.
That’s never been done in a normal.

there are plenty of games with multi-shot vigis?

[Datisi]

Well my wim for this game is completely and utterly gone

[Datisi]

Hi sorry guys - this game has been moving rly fast and I haven’t put much time here

I have information that Something Smart is probably scum, I would maybe be like 95% on it

VOTE: Something Smart

oh beautiful

i vote to claim it, yeah, this game is a shitfest

[Datisi]

well shit.

[Datisi]

i think this wrecks my iv/math idea unless someone actually claims a block on baltar i think

if the gunsmith is town, then possible scum have a blocker but iv is town then
if the gunsmith is scum, then don't think there is one

[Datisi]

When S_S said "you of all people shouldn't be pushing me"?

i was wondering what that was...

[Datisi]

mmm
assuming that's a true claim
i *guess* the team that would make this game the least embarrassing for me is math + andres but like. uh my confidence is not high rn.

i'll think about this at some point this game day i guess, somewhat limited activity the next two days
goodnight

[Datisi]

Datisi is contradicting himself a lot
And I really don’t like Ari’s push against what is now proven true

math, you said you want my responses to this, but like what am i supposed to respond to? you dropped this line about me "contradicting myself a lot" without actually giving any examples where i did so

(note i didn't read past that post yet)

[Datisi]

hi

i'm currently running on 5 hours of sleep and trying to get ready for an exam that's in 2 hours, so unless you wanna wait for the next 6 hours for me to get to you, point me to what you want me to respond to

[Datisi]

we have vt claims? did massclaim happen?

[Datisi]

i don't think me not reading the past 7 pages before stupidposting is town!indicative but i won't stop you if you think so

[Datisi]

Everyone else is VT

did you retract the claim a50 made?

[Datisi]

anyway, vt

UNVOTE:

has s_s claimed whether he was able to shoot n1? do we know why there was only one kill?

[Datisi]

Dats is closed

i do not understand what this means

[Datisi]

Here you say I am lock town
Then later you try to argue I am scum based on the same thing

what?

dude, i called you town because i trusted that vpb has hard evidence that you're town. he presented it in such a way, and i obviously wasn't gonna make him fullclaim it.

now that he's flipped, i see that it's not hard evidence. besides, i wasn't arguing you're scum based on the clear, i was arguing you're scum despite it

[Datisi]

Dats I'm going to need you to tell me you're town again ._.

ari, i'm town

i do not screw a teammate over on page 8 ._.
i do not try to make up andres and frogs the way i did
like

[Datisi]

Hey Dats if u want me to hold the tr on u then u will need to exhibit a wider range of behavior here

hey frogster have you considered looking at my entire fucking iso instead of giving me shit for not posting insanely townie complex posts at the current time

[Datisi]

IV gunsmith practically proves me

also i strongly disagree with this

[Datisi]

the only clear i acknowledge at the moment that i wasn't townreading beforehand is iv

and why the hell should i be optimistic about the fact that my gameview just got shattered and it's revealed i was townreading scum somewhere and i have to re-evaluate

[Datisi]

when i look at ur scum range will i find examples of u faking optimism?

i can't remember a time i showed optimism as either alignment

most of the time, i think the game shouldn't be given up on, but outright optimism no

[Datisi]

She was quick hammered but not by me.

this is icky because i don't think it's rocket surgery on how putting someone at y-1 so quickly and with loose cannons present in the game basically is quickhammering, and the fact that math is trying to nitpick details here is >_>

[Datisi]

there was a broken setup by like d3 that one game

cool, give me a broken setup and i'll be optimistic

[Datisi]

Apparently we’re doing this silly mass claim crap

I imagine you’re going to claim VT and this is even more silly.

We are massclaiming? Isn’t it a bit early?

Start backwards

And btw I am 90% sure there’s a roleblocker because reasonsz

So hence why I am insistent

My straight as an arrow was a crumb to Datisi

Because barring a mod error I didn’t get the fruit

So SS + Datisi is actually more than a paranoid theory I have

why are you sure that there's a roleblocker and how does xou not receiving the fruit mean ANYTHING

[Datisi]

thanks for the exam wishes, peeps

math is icky for pretending to be cleared town based on that claim, the "this flipped town had shit reads and deserved to die" is something i often use as scum to justify a yeet after the fact

the posts towards ari are also icky

assuming no other claims, i'm thinking both s_s and iv are town

gotta run, cheers

[Datisi]

okay, so. assuming s_s and iv are telling the truth, and i don't think this town has enough power without them, we have

weak disloyal fruit vendor
even-night gunsmith
??? vigilante (couldn't shoot n1)

i *could* see this being it for town. now, obviously i know this cannot be it for town, but.

viewtopic.php?p=12681742#p12681742 - this is the one setup i know of that isis designed. i don't know how much it helps me.

anyway, assuming nobody here is a protective or a blocking role or whatever fakeclaiming (for the love of fuck, do not do this), i think math should(??) be legit here. i don't think this level of town power lets scum have a blocking role. i have Thoughts about giving town a backup vig in the one and only case where a vig gets yeeted on day 1, because i think that should bring a punishment for town, because if you wanted to have a fking gunsmith miller in the game, why not make it a backup rolecop or something stupid like that, but whatever.

the bad news is that this means that pretty much all of my reads have to go straight into the trash.

s_s, you said how house once pocketed you with something like this, mind telling me what happened and how that compares to now?

[Datisi]

Town!Dats: "i have no idea. my best guess is that t3 went the designated deepwolf route,

plopped a bus vote down then did nothing to push it,

but also did nothing to go against it should rce get yeeted."

Looking forward to hearing more from Town!Dats.

oh, only now rereading i get what this was trying to say

yeah, that was yelo, where scum needs only one (1) incorrect vote to win the game. so they can afford one of theirs slacking off, doing nothing while lazily bussing, while the two others hope to sway one townie wrong. it's not comparable to day 1, where scum has no ability to instantly win the game if one town votes wrong. nice try, though.

[Datisi]

i actually hate math's posts so much that i am trying to think of any possible combination of someone fakeclaiming vt or wondering if math can be ascetic or some nonsense like that

but i also know baltar will rip my head clean off in post-game if i yeet a person he had a clear on and they flip green

decisions, decisions

i'm not a fan of frogs doing the low jabs he's doing but i don't think it makes him scum

andres is probably the first place i would look at because he's the least townie of the vt claims, but i would be very much lying if i said i actually think he's red

i'm also wondering if there's a positive in s_s claiming what vig exactly he is so that we know whether to plan around his vig shot tonight

[Datisi]

weak disloyal fruit vendor
??? vigilante (couldn't shoot n1)
n1 backup vig

vs

something that managed to figure out s_s is the vig

this looks like a travesty, like surely not

in a perfect world, what
vp gets a clear, then dies on a guilty
n2 s_s shoots someone, so that's town kind of but not really getting an extra yeet?
uhh

god i fucking hate this game

[Datisi]

if it actually turns out to be andres+frogster, i am going to feel HELLA stupid for that towncase i made on both of them

you think that team makes sense?

[Datisi]

i can't quantify it

my experience is that with scum!math, i get ~evil vibes~ as he's trying to twist the gamestate into a scum!favorable one, while i don't get those vibes when he's town

[Datisi]

I also don’t think the solution is to be found entirely within the VT claims.

VOTE: Andresvmb

i have also expressed the same idea, where is my vote

[Datisi]

andres, mind tl;dring me your reads? you townread me and ari, scumread frogs, i'm assuming you think house is town, what's the status on the rest? i'm not assuming that against mathblade is an explicit scumread.

[Datisi]

andres, mind tl;dring me your reads? you townread me and ari, scumread frogs, i'm assuming you think house is town, what's the status on the rest? i'm not assuming that against mathblade is an explicit scumread.

It’s not. The mechanical argument for Mathblade is too strong for me to ignore. So I haven’t spent a lot of time trying to read the slot because I think the odds are dramatically in their favor of having been cleared. I’m finding Math to be irritating as all shit this game (way too stubborn in my view), but that doesn’t make them Scum.

well, okay, in that case, why/how do you think scum isn't within vt claims?

[Datisi]

I mean @Datisi how convinced are you that Aristeia is Town? Because if your level of conviction is very high, do you think there’s any potential that you’re being pocketed?

it's definitely not Very High. she's in the same boat as you, as in had a vote on lapla that wasn't flashy or attention grabbing and didn't try to divert. she's somewhat more individually townie than you are, but not extremely so.

[Datisi]

ugh. i've been wrong before on "scum doesn't unvote their partner and vote someone else at last minute", am i wrong on it again...

[Datisi]

it's difficult to answer the question on whether ari is pocketing me when ari definitely is pocketing me, the thing is she'd do it regardless of her alignment.

i spent an hour writing a towncase on frogs yesterday, and now i'm thinking about voting him, someone help me...

[Datisi]

i wanted to ask andres a self-meta question but it would be a bit ironic if i asked it right now lol

[Datisi]

i don't necessarily think house is scum, but that kinda argument is worthless - in order to verify it, andres would have to go through all of house's post-hiatus games to determine there isn't a game that deviates from the chaotic good - lawful evil mindset. and even then it wouldn't actually prove anything because town!meta can sometimes be mimicked. so yeah.

[Datisi]

how many games have you been in since getting back, house? it would take me 5 minutes to read one (1) page of an iso of a game i'm not familiar with, assuming i skim over large posts. i don't know how much of a fast reader andres is, but the claim that something like that can be verified in "5 minutes" is laughable.

[Datisi]

VOTE: frogster???

[Datisi]

Show me one chaotic play I've made as scum since 2016. One.

i really don't care about this argument because just because it hasn't happened yet (and apparently you didn't even have many opportunities for it to happen) doesn't mean it cannot happen

there is absolutely no logic that holds up this argument

[Datisi]

yeah, this argument has basically been

andres: i think it's unlikely house is scum
house: HOW DARE YOU NOT LOCKTOWN ME

[Datisi]

despite arguing the correct PoE all game

skitter30 (6): ... MathBlade ...

[Datisi]

Doesn’t change the fact the PoE I had is accurate.

"the poe i had was accurate! i only deviated from it to help quickhammer a town player and secure that misflip, but you see, the only thing that proves is that the poe i had at first was accurate and that i'm town!!"

[Datisi]

how hysteric will vp baltar get in the dead thread if i now voted mathblade again, i wonder

[Datisi]

But I am town by mechanics and day play.

your mechanical claim is completely unconformable and your dayplay got a strong town player quickhammered, despite them allegedly not even being in your poe.

stop pretending you're confirmed town. the vp visit is the only thing you have going for you, and at some point it's not gonna be enough.

[Datisi]

it's kind of annoying that the person who cannot read me for shit is the vig but it is what it is, not sure yet if i wanna spend time arguing there as i'm not sure i can solve this game if math isn't scum

frogster, who do you wanna kill today as opposed to writing out essays of mafia theory?

[Datisi]

i am puzzled on why frogster is assuming that both (1) scum have a roleblocker and (2) there's no way that mathblade is mafia, when all it would require is roleblocking the person that basically claimed power role shortly before d1 ended

[Datisi]

also they're not multitasking so if we do get a scum today, they can't do shit

[Datisi]

Datisi can you tell me you are town again?

i am town :< i am getting kind of sad that you're doubting me here

[Datisi]

i don't see why you'd need me to keep telling you i'm town if you weren't doubting me...

[Datisi]

You and andres

have you done any of that stuff you've said about investigating my meta or whatever or are you just bsing about scumreading me?

[Datisi]

I think it indicates following a path of least resistance over a sincere read progression.

And a desire to take a stance due to diminishing scum capital or whatever you called it over game solving.

oh there we go

path of least resistance by pushing the most loud and present vt that i'd recently made a huge towncase on, and by calling the "confirmed townie" scum

least resistance, yes

i don't even know what the second line means

[Datisi]

i like to think i'd be able to push both house and ari here if needed, but yeah

Of the VT's, frog and Andres ARE the easiest lims.

Only think one of them are scum, though.

it's kind of annoying that i agree with this but in the opposite direction >_>

[Datisi]

i mean, i was like "no way frogs starts bussing lapla and then last minute changes to iv"

but last game i was like "no way salsa starts bussing iv and then last minute changes to this random townie" and that made me hammer wrong in 3p lylo so like maybe i shouldn't

[Datisi]

I don't know what direction you're even talking about.

you think andres is scum and frogs is town
i think andres is town and frogs is scum

[Datisi]

Math would prefer to lim frog over Andres, I believe.

where was this said? i thought he wanted me dead lols

[Datisi]

i don't exactly believe empty words like that but i'll think about it

[Datisi]

Math not pushing a lim here just reeks of scum sitting back and relaxing while town twists and turns.

wouldn't this imply his partner is OUTSIDE andres and frogs?

[Datisi]

Datisi if you are just TownOMGussing me you need to stop

i voted you first
i am still waiting on the scumcase on me

[Datisi]

Datisi if you are just TownOMGussing me you need to stop

i voted you first
i am still waiting on the scumcase on me

You don't want to see it

i love tearing up scumcases of me

anyway, another exam in 15, catcha later

[Datisi]

@House I thought Ari was town until she has no qualms about joining from her point of view what is highly likely to be an impure wagon.

can you walk me through how/why you came to this conclusion?

[Datisi]

I just remembered too when I put IV at e-1 in this game I was expecting SS to unvote and I thought SS was town but I wasn't sure yet and I wanted to see what they would do. I also scumread IV at the time.

were you also taking into account how i had said that i will be hammering iv and how i was online at the time and posting?

[Datisi]

i am puzzled on why frogster is assuming that both (1) scum have a roleblocker and (2) there's no way that mathblade is mafia, when all it would require is roleblocking the person that basically claimed power role shortly before d1 ended

okay, do you mind answering this?

[Datisi]

the person that basically claimed power role shortly before d1 ended

When did that happen?

the "if i die, yeet a50". it made no sense at the time because there were so many people townier than he was, plus the masons claim. i don't think it's very out there to say that scum could've seen that as a soft.

[Datisi]

it's kind of annoying that the person who cannot read me for shit is the vig but it is what it is, not sure yet if i wanna spend time arguing there as i'm not sure i can solve this game if math isn't scum

frogster, who do you wanna kill today as opposed to writing out essays of mafia theory?

Wtf dude? It’s shit like this that makes me scumread you.

There’s no way from a town you angle that SS is scum.

Scum cannot have the vig modifier in normals.
Two deaths means a vig exists or you’re scum.

SS is an uncountered vig.

???????????

which part of "it sucks that a person who cannot read me is the vigilante" reads as "i think the vigilante is fakeclaiming"

[Datisi]

Not sure I want to spend time arguing there => arguing SS scum

"not sure i wanna spend time arguing with the vigilante who scumreads me about him not shooting me" -_-

[Datisi]

There’s a bit of a wagon dilemma here for scum that they are forced into with this PoE of 5.

6*

[Datisi]

you already argued so simply from the reactions to A50’s claim

what does this even mean

and sure, what about this setup proves that there is no way scum has a role that could have interfered with baltar's

[Datisi]

i have accepted that you're probably not dying today, but s_s is dying tonight so i hold hope about tomorrow

[Datisi]

Good scum do not roleblock those who they are going to elim. It’s a waste of scum power
So it’s unlikely scum if they have a Roleblocker (which I doubt) blocked VFP

This setup is balanced with just three goons or maybe one BP or a doc for a fake inno

first of all, who tf is VFP

second, sure they do? if they thought VPB was an investigative, there's a risk the town believes him when he claims and bye bye misyeet. but if he claims he's an investigative who just so happens to have no result? much easier misyeet. and even if he DID got yeeted through an invest claim, that would still be confirmed information once he flipped, so the idea that scum "never block who they want to yeet" is frankly nonsense

and, arguing it would be balanced if there was a scum doc as a false inno for the gunsmith is hilarious because why can't there be an ascetic as a false inno for the weak disloyal fruit vendor?

[Datisi]

An ascetic would have claimed early

ah yeah. scum ascetic definitely would have claimed early.

[Datisi]

An ascetic would have claimed early

ah yeah. scum ascetic definitely would have claimed early.

I think you’re being sarcastic but yes they would have because this is a normal.

scum should definitely not claim ascetic because an investigative getting a no result on them is not a guilty, and it increases the odds of town wasting their investigative power on them

trueclaiming ascetic as scum is bad scumplay

[Datisi]

i have literally never seen anyone get eliminated because an investigative did not get a result on them but go off i guess

[Datisi]

terrible way to go about recruiting me

what about any of my recent play gave you the idea that i am attempting to recruit you?

House wanting Andres first is not scummy as he’s not thinking with forethought of future elims

which part of house saying he's voteparking you tomorrow is not a forethought of future yeets?

[Datisi]

Umm it seems like maybe anyone but you?

i'm sorry what

[Datisi]

Umm it seems like maybe anyone but you?

i'm sorry what

You've said pretty much everyone is scummy but I haven't seen you mention Ari

...
when have i called house scummy
when have i called andres scummy

[Datisi]

i just got a flash of ari flipping red and i didn't like it

ari, can you tell me you're town

[Datisi]

frogs, do you have a reason for me being scum that isn't "datisi townread me then datisi vote me" and why did you ignore 3074

[Datisi]

of course i was?

[Datisi]

why is that paired with a sad face? :c

[Datisi]

Spoiler: for aristeia

that picture is so pretty!! i have genuinely not seen snow in over 10 years since i live in a pretty warm area. :< i'm genuinely blushing right now, of course i would love to take a walk with you there! >w<

[Datisi]

read to the bottom of pg 129, finding it weird how frogs suddenly seems much more angry that things aren't going his way than explaining why they should be. like, i still don't see why he townreads everyone except me/andres so hard or whatever. granted maybe he doesn't care about explaining things *to me* but there's a weird lack of cases/data in his convincing of others, that was present in early game

anyway, gotta run, if frogs dropped some cool cases in the last 2 pages, ignore this post

[Datisi]

i think what house is yelling about his own meta is townie

if what he's saying is true (i'm assuming it is for now but i have not checked), then him being scum this game would mean that there was some rapid scum improvement. which isn't, like, *impossible*, but it's probably unlikely enough that everything else should be considered first

and that's not even talking about shutting down a counterwagon of lapla and etc

[Datisi]

I would want Datisi to be the decision maker

i don't even know what the context is but this is generally a horrible idea

[Datisi]

Why would a town gunsmith claim an even night modifier?

and you are pointing this out because?

[Datisi]

also i gotta say i don't think i'm seeing scum!math as much as i was in early day 3 so idk

the jury is still out, i just felt like pointing this out

[Datisi]

also i gotta say i don't think i'm seeing scum!math as much as i was in early day 3 so idk

the jury is still out, i just felt like pointing this out

LOL

VOTE: Datisi

i would really like to hear why you think that post is so bas it warrants you voting me immediately, but judging by your previous records, you're unlikely to actually explain shit

[Datisi]

@Ari

you are going to be left alive with scum!tisi and town!math because you're less useful for determining Datisi's alignment than a doorknob.

this is implying i am scum making myself go to lylo with two people i am either townreading or posturing a townread on, and like.

[Datisi]

they'll be bitter

you do know that not everyone is as omgusy as you are?

i once brought a claimed power role to 3-way who i had been pushing for the *entire game* and i convinced her i was town so lole

[Datisi]

"here is why you're wrong and your assessment is nonsense"

"lol ok scum"

[Datisi]

still don't think it's house, but my pool of scumreads is very small rn so i should probably work on that at some point

[Datisi]

He produced a lot of content about why I'm town pretty consistently throughout the game, and came up with lots of reasons why Math could be scum on D3, and then as soon as I start pressuring his slot he votes me. He also made it directly clear earlier he's not trying to convince me to change my mind about my FoS. If I had that strong of a townread on a slot and that slot started pressuring me, I might vote them initially, but eventually I would want to come kind of agreement, not BW them since I read the slot as town.

- i started suspecting you before you started suspecting me
- even if i had wanted to, i had no way to try to convince you against your scumread of me because you had given two crappy reasons why i'm scum (omgus/poe) and refused to elaborate on either
- tying up to that, what part of me repeatedly asking "why am i scum?" made you think i am not trying to come to an agreement

[Datisi]

i don't have a response to "datisi was tmi-ing me as town" because like there is never a response to that other than "i'm not". it's also annoying that frogs didn't try to pry into my thought process on why i swapped my read on him instead of just going blindly into attack mode but o kay

[Datisi]

still don't think it's house, but my pool of scumreads is very small rn so i should probably work on that at some point

You posturing for a read flip?

Just curious.

i'm posturing for a read flip on SOMEONE since i currently have more townreads than there is town left in this game

i have not yet decided who the flip is going to be on

[Datisi]

i'm currently phone posting and going to another exam because my uni hates us, but i will run a check on who started suspecting whom later on because i remember frogs suspecting me in response to me not being sure he's town anymore, but who knows maybe i'm making it up

[Datisi]

yeah, because purposefully lying about easily verifiable information on events in game is definitely the pro scum strat i would employ, as opposed to either-alignment forgetting

you sure fucking got me, can't believe i didn't get away with it

[Datisi]

"datisi doesn't know all events of the game by heart therefore he's scum!!"

good luck with that

[Datisi]

i'm not admitting they're incorrect, i'm admitting they might be incorrect and that i am currently unable to verify that, but sure

[Datisi]

on the subject of "who started suspecting whom first":

i made my frogs vote in 2793. i'll be using that as a reference point.

2640 & 2647 is frogs saying that he'll have to reread both me and ari because he thinks there's scum between us. 2670 is that nonsense jab at comparing how i see bussing at d1 and in 7p lylo. 2712 accuses me of not towntelling and not scumtelling, 2716 makes more assumptions about my thought process.

2752 felt like a positive interaction with me, and 2880 finally accuses me of being scum due to my vote.

i did not see any posts before 2880 as showing actual suspicion of me, they were just empty words of "i'll have to reread dats" and pointing out things that straight up aren't even alignment-indicative for me. however, i'm willing to admit that i can see frogs *think* that these posts are actually showing suspicion of me and that that's why he sees my vote as omgus. so sure.

[Datisi]

I'm also going to link to the posts where I did try to pry into your thought process, and this one here where you said I didn't.

however, please do link this. i crtl+f'ed "dat" in the second page of your iso, and i was not able to find a single post where you actually asked me about my thought process or my voting patterns.

[Datisi]

Datisi says he's posturing for a read flip on *someone*, claims he has lots of townreads though he has only explained two of them (one of which he's currently voting), says his information *might* be incorrect.

For those of you who haven't figured out what scum looks like, this is it.

yeah, i'm about to have to flip my read on someone because i'm currently townreading everyone but you, and there are 2 scum left in this game. your "datisi has only two townreads and he's voting one of them" is utter nonsense because if you were actually reading my posts, you'd know i went from townreading everyone except math and iv > realizing one of them has to be scum > townreading iv, scumreading you > now cooling off on the math scumread. and if you didn't understand, you could've asked. but nope, you didn't.

and you are free to explain how me saying something factually-incorrect that's easily verifiable by literally anyone in the game is supposed to be scummy. do you think scumtisi is such an idiot he thinks he's actually gonna get away with telling blatant falsehoods? how is *that* more likely or even more logical than me simply forgetting the exact order of events? (which, btw, i hadn't even forgotten, you were just having a too liberal definition of what a scumread is, but whatever, besides the point.)

[Datisi]

realizing one of them has to be

town*

something something scumslip something something datisi scum

[Datisi]

s_s, have you considered doing something now that you're conftown

[Datisi]

considering you earlier say that i'm poe scum to you, this post implies that i do not give you a headache, and frankly i'm insulted

[Datisi]

nah. you're stating how you have to completely reread. and none of the posts i linked in 3355 are attempting to sort shit. falslely comparing my day 1 play here to my lylo play in a different towngame, telling me i'm neither scum nor towntelling, and accusing me of being scum because i'm not being optimistic are not "sorting my slot". you're free to explain how those posts actually helped you sort me.

3340 is laughable because it presents i'm scum because i'm omgusing you (false, but i'll give you this one that you believe it), because i'm not trying to convince you differently of my slot (false, i've been asking you why i'm scum and you kept repeating "poe" until recently), and tmi (which is indefensible further than "i'm not" and doesn't actually mean anything).

3357 is not supposed to be some huge case on who scum is, it's supposed to be pointing out my thought process which you're pretending doesn't exist.

i can very much point out why your case against me is garbage, thank you very much.

[Datisi]

this is just adding to thread bloat. if any townies actually want my response to anything, they can ask.

[Datisi]

i already said why i don't believe that you have successfully sorted me through those posts i linked, because you never followed up on actually sorting me with those questions. i said why i did not take those posts as serious sorting at the time they were made. i pointed out why comparing me to the potions game in lylo is a false comparison. i pointed out why calling me "not optimistic" is not ai for me. if you wanna keep ignoring that those posts where you allegedly sort me and express a scumread on me aren't very good, idk what to tell you.

[Datisi]

You responded in a way which wasn't scummy, but it wasn't townie either, for example your response here in 2744, where you're addressing my point while not providing any insight or rationale for your thought process in this game.

you see, this is my issue with you. you're making it out how it's a problem that i didn't provide "insight" or "rationale" for my thought process this game in 2744. which i'm really struggling to believe is coming from a place of good faith when literally the only point of 2744 was to tell you why you're comparing apples and oranges. like, at that point, i had already plenty talked about why i thought scum would act so and so on d1 with a partner like lapla. you're making out that it's a strike against my slot that i didn't... repeat that analysis? *why* would i?

It's 3340 and the subsequent issues I've raised with your behavior and excuses since then which you're currently failing to backup as "utter nonsense".

you actually do want me to repeat same shit over and over, huh. okay.

re 3340:
- i explained why your "as soon as i start pressuring him" line doesn't add up to me, asking weak questions doesn't really count as "pressuring" in my book.
- the next line is making assumptions about my play, that i should definitely be trying my hardest to convince you to change your mind. sorry to break it to you, i don't play that way.
- and it's also not even that accurate because i had been asking you why i'm scum, to which only replies were "poe lol".
- the point about me tmi-ing is wrong, but i cannot prove it's wrong because the only thing i can say is "no, it isn't".
- the rest of this post doesn't even talk about me.

re 3352 (and the ones before it):
- your "prying into my thought process" consisted of "how come town!you was acting differently in this completely different situation" and "why aren't you optimistic", my deepest apologies for not counting that as actually trying to sort my alignment considering nothing ever came from it.
- besides the misrep about what i said, my point stands that "this person said this thing that is factually wrong and easily verifiable, therefore he is scum!" is a level-zero take because WHY would any scum at least one brain cell do that? do you think i'm so stupid i think i'm gonna get away with it? it's much more likely and logical that i, as either alignment, forgot the exact order of events (or god forbid we were looking at the same events differently), but you didn't stop to consider any of that, you just went into blind attack mode as if you just got a red check on me.

re 3354:
- misrepping my reads, ignoring my thought process, and trying to make out how me saying "i'm townreading too many people" is supposed to somehow be caught scum. 3373 further accuses me of... i don't even know what exactly. of the same shit as before, that in a post where i am strictly responding to one part of your attack, i'm not trying to find out who scum is. no comment about the fact that *you* misrepped *me*, no, it's that "my reads are guarded and i haven't put thought into them". what, because i don't write a novel out every time i say something?

The fact that these questions didn't help me sort your slot isn't a sign that you're townie either or my efforts are just for show; it's a sign that I have made a sincere effort to sort your slot and that your slot on D3 has been evasive and resistant when not being downright scummy.

or it's a sign that you were asking nothingburger questions to look busy. but sure, blame me for the fact that your bland questions didn't get you anything.

[Datisi]

i'm getting tired of this argument and i would love to talk about literally anything else. or just let the perpetually-behind players catch up.

[self-meta] scum!me doesn't really have problems with responding in wallposts like this, especially against arguments like frogs's. it's just recycling the same things over and over again. which is why i'd want to move on to something more productive, because i believe you're not going to sort me off of those replies. [/self-meta]

[Datisi]

yeah, no, sorry, i'm done with this argument. 3384 is a bad post and i've run out of patience for refuting your nonsense.

[Datisi]

yeah, i lied. responding to your scum"case" of me is sapping any desire i had of playing mafia. add it to your list of obvscum evil things i've done this game.

[Datisi]

also i gotta say i don't think i'm seeing scum!math as much as i was in early day 3 so idk

the jury is still out, i just felt like pointing this out

LOL

VOTE: Datisi

@andres

[Datisi]

not sure i would agree with me being an easier sell than you.

[Datisi]

damn, i was hoping to get some more thoughts out of andres in real-time. anyway, off to sleep. ari, i would like to see your thoughts on what frog's posted in the past few pages. doesn't need to be a novel.

pedit: oh hi. yeah, i know. i was hoping you'd like, continue your thought process there.

[Datisi]

heyy i just noticed something funny

Ari, should you choose to sit here and scum freeze

while you wait for Datisi to wake up in about 30 minutes

, I'm going to begin elaborating my case on YOU

frogs is very much aware of my sleep schedule, it seems. (he was off by some half an hour, but hey, pretty close.)

who ARI AND DATISI bandwagoned, enabling her quicklim to be possible,

and were mysteriously absent when skitter was begging for Ari to meta clear her

hmm...

Asks ss ari or dats, they have experience with scum-me, outworlder does not

this post happened at 5:04am CET.

VOTE: skitter

I did it, rip the tiger

frogs hammered at 5:25am CET.

while frogs already admitted he knows my sleep schedule, here he is giving me shit for not being awake for these 20 minutes at 5am, a time i am never awake.

interesting.

[Datisi]

math, how did you go from thinking i am 100% a scumfuck to not even including me in solves?

[Datisi]

also, not to mention that faulting someone for not being online for 20 minutes when they were the one that originally cut that time short is. lol.

Dats,

I'm watching the last episode of OreGairu and it's sooo good.

Hope you have a great Saturday <3

it is supposed to be a working one, but we'll see. thank you <3

[Datisi]

My biggest concern Frogger town will mean a reread over night.

I don’t think Frogger is as no one has given a reason Frogger is town which means the elim has been decided long before I did a lot of things. Kinda maybe points to Ari?

Not sure.

I want to see what he flips.

my issue is that i can't tell between "nobody is defending him, so scum don't want to stop the town wagon" and "nobody is defending him, the last scum doesn't want to look like shit on his flip".

and also that otherwise i have no clue who else is supposed to be scum in this game. but yeah. we'll burn that bridge when we get to it, i guess.