Mini Normal 2268 Game Over

[Roden]

i tend to value in thread interactions > pressuring whats not there when im town

when im scum its like easier for me to get caught up with players not here so i can appear busy and not advance anything

why not just wait? you have a wagon on him.

though you switching to me is actually +town

lolwut
I actually think you're town here koba???

yeah actually me too now

UNVOTE:

can you tell us about dwlee in your hood?

Low key wondering why no one has brought my name up yet or accused me of lurking. But Chaos hasn't posted yet either I guess.

[Roden]

i tend to value in thread interactions > pressuring whats not there when im town

when im scum its like easier for me to get caught up with players not here so i can appear busy and not advance anything

why not just wait? you have a wagon on him.

though you switching to me is actually +town

lolwut
I actually think you're town here koba???

yeah actually me too now

UNVOTE:

can you tell us about dwlee in your hood?

Low key wondering why no one has brought my name up yet or accused me of lurking. But Chaos hasn't posted yet either I guess.

I can't believe that quoted early lmao, I hit cut but I guess it didn't matter.

Anyway that was gonna be my reason for voting HEM because I caught up already and that looked like scum trying to appease someone who was scum reading them.

VOTE: HEM

[Roden]

Originally I kinda thought Koba was scum trying to hard push Dwlee for freezing up, but I like their interactions with GL. Dwlee idk on but they're a little too blatantly self-conscious right now for me to think their reaction to pressure was scummy. So they're a town read and lean respectively for now.

[Roden]

yayayaya ur here

i still remember what u said to me last time

Not sure what I said tbh, I thought last game we were in together I town locked you?

[Roden]

btw have I lost the plot and we're letting dwlee go rn or what

What's your read on Dwlee?

[Roden]

outside the traitor claim thing, the biggest thing that sticks out to me is dwlee justifying their rvs vote, it feels overwrought, so even outside the hood deal I have dwlee as leanscum

Do you think scum!Dwlee panics around town!Koba like that though? It would be a stark contrast to how SCP went.

[Roden]

Originally I kinda thought Koba was scum trying to hard push Dwlee for freezing up, but I like their interactions with GL. Dwlee idk on but they're a little too blatantly self-conscious right now for me to think their reaction to pressure was scummy. So they're a town read and lean respectively for now.

I townread Koba, but can you tell me more about what about their interaction with GL that makes you think town?
Do you think Dwlee was being blatantly self-conscious is town-indicative? Why couldn't they be blatantly self-conscious and null?

I think scum!Koba would keep prodding there, while town!Koba would see that continuing to prod could potentially be anti town and back off.

Somebody mentioned earlier that Dwlee is good about self-image stuff as town and I agree there. Dwlee's town and scum play isn't quite night and day, but I feel that they could've easily handled it better if they were scum.

[Roden]

I think you guyses fight just looks like a fight made just to fight tho

kiss and make up rn

sync

Why?

monkey read on lion seems like magnetic to calling him scum.
initially it's a reason 4 a townread but it's a scumread instead, the he is influenced by folks talkin fith him, then it's fite me cause u don't wanna fite me.

@monkee: dunno why u think scumlion wants to avoid a fight w u. u both easier yeet and more valuable miseet from his pow then dwee. lion refusing to 1v1 u is town indic.
@lion: red flips are inherintly more suprising tham green ones.

++Town for these posts.

[Roden]

Wtf is this garbage wagon? Is there any particular reason you guys want to vote out the only person keeping the game alive? Like do none of you see that the further this wagon builds the more quiet this game gets? Game state alone shows that this is a wagon on town and that scum are just waiting for town to hammer for an easy Day 1.

[Roden]

VOTE: guiltylion E-1
This game is dead af, let’s at least make something happen soon

Game is dead so you want to vote out one of the top posters??

[Roden]

@HEM:

Why did you get so aggressive and angry with GL when they essentially made the same read on you as I did? You ignored my read and vote and instead mauled GL for it even though they explained the read in much more detail than I had.

[Roden]

You don't keep someone at E-1 unless you're hoping someone is impulsive enough to hammer

[Roden]

I will likely end up unvoting if anyone declares intent bc on principle i tend to keep high activity slots around+ i have a hood to send in a legacy provided dwlee keeps towntelling in our hood

Intent to hammer

[Roden]

roden you just want me to unvote

No shit, it's a garbage wagon and I have no idea why you're on it since I think you're town

[Roden]

UNVOTE:
which you shall have but i am putting my vote right back as sokn as i know you actually dont intend to.

Why did you declare intent?

To see if you'd actually unvote

PE: yikes

[Roden]

why are you suddenly hard defending them?

Because GL is obvtown and the game state wouldn't be this dead if town caught scum

Because I made the exact same read as GL and wasn't even questioned about it

Because I've been lurky this game and no one, not even the people getting run up, are pointing it out

[Roden]

In what universe do I defend my scum buddy Day 1 instead of just bus them?? I've literally hard bussed my scum buddy in my first post Day 1 before lol, I don't hard defend buddies.

Tbh Koba you've seen my scum game twice now, it works just fine and it definitely isn't this. Maybe your read is just wrong and mine is right.

[Roden]

In what universe do I defend my scum buddy Day 1 instead of just bus them?? I've literally hard bussed my scum buddy in my first post Day 1 before lol, I don't hard defend buddies.

Tbh Koba you've seen my scum game twice now, it works just fine and it definitely isn't this. Maybe your read is just wrong and mine is right.

In the world where the scum in question has to endgame and ur facing someone who can read scum you with scary accuracy and the last scum is either traitor or a weak scum player

When have you read me accurately? You town read me both times I was scum and bought my fake attempt to appeal to Dwlee back in SCP.

I would and have easily bussed the PRs in my team. Obviously you're not reading me correctly here, but I don't think you can read me in general. If I'm scum with GL I would've bussed him ages ago and buddied you until you town read me so I could NK you in peace. Scum me has no reason to draw out your ire, because I know you can out argue me and that you generally have more influence over the game than I do.

[Roden]

but what implies it is from a townie?

and for roden it is >scum to make pop ins like that

Examples please.

[Roden]

Koba name one time where you read me accurately or even pointed out a true part of my meta

Because you claim you can but when I pressed you on all the times you absolutely failed to read me you just voted me without responding

[Roden]

Koba name one time where you read me accurately or even pointed out a true part of my meta

Because you claim you can but when I pressed you on all the times you absolutely failed to read me you just voted me without responding

we literally just finished a game where i hammered u bc i scumread you legitimately lol

i was playing pro-town as SK

i also sniped pooky

also SCP upick i was parked on u once i had a solid scumread <3

You town read me in GIM lol, you only voted me because Meg faked a guilty.

You also vote parked me in SCP because I was on vacation + I intentionally got myself voted to to push Dwlee further into game. You lost that game because you couldn't read me and assumed I was level level zero scum spewing who the townies were.

[Roden]

also i think roden/gl are a potential s/s pair

Maybe
Something about the way Roden came in against the GL wagon feels rather sus
Actually, I think I have a good idea of what alarm bells are being rung here

oh and gamma remembers exactly the way I scumread roden in SCP upick

Maybe? I’m kinda working with my own set of sparknotes for reading Roden
Speaking of which
VOTE: roden
Just on tone he feels kinda scummy, I don’t think this is 100% success rate but it has been decent iirc

So are just repeating Open 835 again or are you just scum

[Roden]

Koba name one time where you read me accurately or even pointed out a true part of my meta

Because you claim you can but when I pressed you on all the times you absolutely failed to read me you just voted me without responding

we literally just finished a game where i hammered u bc i scumread you legitimately lol

i was playing pro-town as SK

i also sniped pooky

also SCP upick i was parked on u once i had a solid scumread <3

You town read me in GIM lol, you only voted me because Meg faked a guilty.

You also vote parked me in SCP because I was on vacation + I intentionally got myself voted to to push Dwlee further into game. You lost that game because you couldn't read me and assumed I was level level zero scum spewing who the townies were.

i literally meta'd you roden LMFAO

you are trying to pretend like its not real awe

Your meta was wrong, and Dwlee was about to get voted out before I made my play. Why are

you

pretending? The thread wasn't deleted, the proof is still there. Are you just unable to admit that you're wrong?

[Roden]

also i think roden/gl are a potential s/s pair

Maybe
Something about the way Roden came in against the GL wagon feels rather sus
Actually, I think I have a good idea of what alarm bells are being rung here

oh and gamma remembers exactly the way I scumread roden in SCP upick

Maybe? I’m kinda working with my own set of sparknotes for reading Roden
Speaking of which
VOTE: roden
Just on tone he feels kinda scummy, I don’t think this is 100% success rate but it has been decent iirc

So are just repeating Open 835 again or are you just scum

el em ay oh
This is not a town response.

Last time you said that, I was town and successfully pushed out scum while you were tunneling a townie

[Roden]

Koba name one time where you read me accurately or even pointed out a true part of my meta

Because you claim you can but when I pressed you on all the times you absolutely failed to read me you just voted me without responding

we literally just finished a game where i hammered u bc i scumread you legitimately lol

i was playing pro-town as SK

i also sniped pooky

also SCP upick i was parked on u once i had a solid scumread <3

You town read me in GIM lol, you only voted me because Meg faked a guilty.

You also vote parked me in SCP because I was on vacation + I intentionally got myself voted to to push Dwlee further into game. You lost that game because you couldn't read me and assumed I was level level zero scum spewing who the townies were.

i literally meta'd you roden LMFAO

you are trying to pretend like its not real awe

Your meta was wrong, and Dwlee was about to get voted out before I made my play. Why are

you

pretending? The thread wasn't deleted, the proof is still there. Are you just unable to admit that you're wrong?

u are mad u are caught again

No your ego is just insufferable and undeserved

also i think roden/gl are a potential s/s pair

Maybe
Something about the way Roden came in against the GL wagon feels rather sus
Actually, I think I have a good idea of what alarm bells are being rung here

oh and gamma remembers exactly the way I scumread roden in SCP upick

Maybe? I’m kinda working with my own set of sparknotes for reading Roden
Speaking of which
VOTE: roden
Just on tone he feels kinda scummy, I don’t think this is 100% success rate but it has been decent iirc

So are just repeating Open 835 again or are you just scum

el em ay oh
This is not a town response.

Last time you said that, I was town and successfully pushed out scum while you were tunneling a townie

Rather than debate the finer points of past games, how about you try and explain how you aren’t scum in THIS game? Your entire defense towards Koba has been “you’ve never been right about me”.

I'm sorry, what's Koba's case? That telling people not to put obvtown slots at E-1 is scummy?

Koba literally only thinks I'm scum because I said voting GL is bad and thinks I'm not good enough to be able to accurately read someone as town. It's somehow more likely that I'm scum trying to hard defend my scum buddy...instead of town defending another townie.

tfw "you've never been right about me"

but

I voted them out as scum twice and didnt push them as town when we were T/T

Did you or did you not lose SCP because you misread me?

Did you or did you not only vote me because Meg claimed a guilty on me?

[Roden]

also re:scp upick, I lost bc i couldnt find LLD or T3 as town, not bc i couldnt find dwlee.

LLD had 0% readrate in that game pre replace out and i had no way to question the progression there to figure out why that was and had to take that at face value

LLD claimed Vig, shot mis-elim bait, and wasn't contested. What else was there to read?

[Roden]

also re:scp upick, I lost bc i couldnt find LLD or T3 as town, not bc i couldnt find dwlee.

LLD had 0% readrate in that game pre replace out and i had no way to question the progression there to figure out why that was and had to take that at face value

LLD claimed Vig, shot mis-elim bait, and wasn't contested. What else was there to read?

i value dayplay>mechaplay being a vig in a protective heavy setup was not clearing

And as it turned out, you were wrong even with just the day play. Which is my point.

[Roden]

Koba stop falling for Roden’s tricks
This is the same lame defensive maneuver we had to keep Nancy Drew from overdoing in Townstumps

Literally what tricks?? Koba is going after

me

. I town read them, they're just way off course with everything they're saying.

[Roden]

also re:scp upick, I lost bc i couldnt find LLD or T3 as town, not bc i couldnt find dwlee.

LLD had 0% readrate in that game pre replace out and i had no way to question the progression there to figure out why that was and had to take that at face value

LLD claimed Vig, shot mis-elim bait, and wasn't contested. What else was there to read?

i value dayplay>mechaplay being a vig in a protective heavy setup was not clearing

And as it turned out, you were wrong even with just the day play. Which is my point.

that was because of the replace out <3

but yeah im not gonna be discredited here lol

towntell or die

I did towntell, you just scum read me for it.

[Roden]

Koba stop falling for Roden’s tricks
This is the same lame defensive maneuver we had to keep Nancy Drew from overdoing in Townstumps

Literally what tricks?? Koba is going after

me

. I town read them, they're just way off course with everything they're saying.

You’re making things about past games rather than the present game
Your read on Koba has literally zero to do with it but nice attempt at a misdirect

Factually untrue, Koba was the one who made it about past games.

but what implies it is from a townie?

and for roden it is >scum to make pop ins like that

Also how does my read on Koba have zero to do with it when you accused me of trying to play tricks on Koba?

[Roden]

Why is Roden more concerned with defending GL than finding scum

No that's just the only thing people want to respond to. I've made a case on you twice now, and it was ignored by you and everyone else both times.

[Roden]

VOTE: Gamma

The L-1 vote with no conviction even though he's mentioned GL as a suspect reads bad, like he knows GL will flip town and is already trying to pivot. It coming right after GL's post that my vote is +town for bravery is a funny juxtaposition. Have to go, will be back on later tonight.

I only really voted there in order to progress the game, with the expectation being that I would cause some reactions from folks were weren't okay with a hammer happening. I do feel like GL's reaction is at least okay rn. Meuh I'm a little interested in her reaction but Roden's was definitely the one that pinged me immediately.

Also, I'll back the statement that Koba has a good read rate on chaos

I town read you initially but the read is disintegrating before my eyes at this point.

You keep saying that I'm pinging you but you won't explain why. You keep accusing me of things, but when I press you to explain it turns out you don't have an actual answer or explanation. You're just saying things and hoping that you're blindly believed/that I won't push back in a logical way.

This is exactly why I brought up Open 835 earlier. Because at least when you were making a meta read there, even though you were completely wrong you still tried to explain how you came to your conclusion. We had a sizable back and forth but in the end, you eventually admitted you were wrong and backed off, and I was able to town read you for genuinely believing in your case against me.

None of that is happening here though. You're making meta accusations but you aren't trying to back up any of them. Tictac even just said your meta read of "Roden does argument tricks as scum" was incorrect and that it was more

your

meta, but you ignored that to repeat how much I'm pinging you.

You're not doing any real solving, and honestly your town meta of asking questions and diving into player motivations has been entirely absent.

VOTE: Gamma

[Roden]

I'm 100% confident Roden doesn't "swoop in" to defend me like that as scum, there wouldn't be a need to

actually why tho

because I'm town and at E-1, what on earth does scum Roden gain from pushing so hard against the wagon that he attracts attention/votes instead? I'm useful to keep around scum should want me gone

I get that it will look different to someone who doesn't know my alignment but I give exactly 0% chance Roden had any scum agenda to what he posted. The better question is why do you think it's a scum-indicative action?

I think it's scum indicative

how

he went about defending you. It felt like he had too much skin in the game there. The only feasible explanation I could see for town!Roden to have felt that way would be if he had a tangible townread on you before the E-1.

This is more of what I'm talking about. You've either learned nothing from Open 835, or you're just scum. And I really hope it isn't the former, because at this point you scum read me for catching scum and if I'm ever correct then I'm bussing, you scum read me for having accurate town reads and if I'mever correct then I'm informed, you don't think it's possible for me to accurately town read amd defend a townie at E-1...

Like, just fucking say you think my town game is garbage already. If you think I can only ever have correct reads as scum then there's no point in ever trying to engage with you.

[Roden]

Also I'm not really feeling the votes on Meuh right now. Is it possible they're scum defending townies for town cred? Sure. But I don't think that should be the first assumption, and even more I really don't think they should be today's priority.

Also also, NK15 is giving me "yelling into the void" vibes, I feel like no one's paying much attention to them despite their bold claims. Game state makes me think they're town for it though.

[Roden]

Also I'm not really feeling the votes on Meuh right now. Is it possible they're scum defending townies for town cred? Sure. But I don't think that should be the first assumption, and even more I really don't think they should be today's priority.

Also also, NK15 is giving me "yelling into the void" vibes, I feel like no one's paying much attention to them despite their bold claims. Game state makes me think they're town for it though.

So why do you townread GL?

Wtf is this garbage wagon? Is there any particular reason you guys want to vote out the only person keeping the game alive? Like do none of you see that the further this wagon builds the more quiet this game gets? Game state alone shows that this is a wagon on town and that scum are just waiting for town to hammer for an easy Day 1.

@HEM:

Why did you get so aggressive and angry with GL when they essentially made the same read on you as I did? You ignored my read and vote and instead mauled GL for it even though they explained the read in much more detail than I had.

why are you suddenly hard defending them?

Because GL is obvtown and the game state wouldn't be this dead if town caught scum

Because I made the exact same read as GL and wasn't even questioned about it

Because I've been lurky this game and no one, not even the people getting run up, are pointing it out

[Roden]

specifically i feel roden may have TMI'd GL as town and didnt actually reach their GL read genuinely, as in it was worked backwards and they are trying to pocket the loudest voice in the room. I also potentially think Roden might PR read GL and that they are thinking a step ahead in terms of pocketing there too - as I had built a similar world myself.

...What? Didn't you say I was scum hard defending my scum buddy? Now I'm scum hard pocketing a town PR? So no matter what, I'm just scum and can't just have accurate town reads.

This new theory doesn't even make sense. If I'm scum, why do I save someone I suspect to be a PR instead of just...killing them? Hello??

[Roden]

I'm 100% confident Roden doesn't "swoop in" to defend me like that as scum, there wouldn't be a need to

actually why tho

because I'm town and at E-1, what on earth does scum Roden gain from pushing so hard against the wagon that he attracts attention/votes instead? I'm useful to keep around scum should want me gone

I get that it will look different to someone who doesn't know my alignment but I give exactly 0% chance Roden had any scum agenda to what he posted. The better question is why do you think it's a scum-indicative action?

I think it's scum indicative

how

he went about defending you. It felt like he had too much skin in the game there. The only feasible explanation I could see for town!Roden to have felt that way would be if he had a tangible townread on you before the E-1.

This is more of what I'm talking about. You've either learned nothing from Open 835, or you're just scum. And I really hope it isn't the former, because at this point you scum read me for catching scum and if I'm ever correct then I'm bussing, you scum read me for having accurate town reads and if I'mever correct then I'm informed, you don't think it's possible for me to accurately town read amd defend a townie at E-1...

Like, just fucking say you think my town game is garbage already. If you think I can only ever have correct reads as scum then there's no point in ever trying to engage with you.

I don’t feel like this is like open 835, is the thing! That game it felt like I could actually talk to you. This game, and in past games where you’ve been scum, you’ve had a hostile aura.

This is blatantly untrue, what the fuck.

I rlly feel like this is not an argument where both parties are acting in good faith
I am not pre-judging that i's roden acting in bad faith tho

Can you explain?

Also do you plan to respond to my earlier posts? Are you just going to park your vote on me or are you going to play?

idk if I can put a pin on it rn but something definitely doesn't feel right about y'alls interactions
and idc to respond unless I get something to change the feeling that you're just gonna take what I say and spin it to make me look bad, because I sensed that as your motive in ln 235 and I feel like that's your motive here

yeah nah I'm fine to sit where I'm at and refuse to elaborate further

I'll give content if someone I care to engage with asks for it

Like you're actively refusing to talk to me here.

Also your "hostile aura/anger" meta was even disproven in this game??

How did you even come to this conclusion that "anger = scum" when it's always been the complete opposite?

Because I feel like there’s a pattern in games where you’re scum of “I push Roden on something > he freaks out about it > he flips scum” so it might just be your base reaction and I’m having a positive feedback loop

So are you town that learned nothing and actively choosing to make the same mistakes, or are you scum trying to massage Koba's ego so you can get what you want?

[Roden]

Roden

Spoiler:

Anyway that was gonna be my reason for voting HEM because I caught up already and that looked like scum trying to appease someone who was scum reading them.

VOTE: HEM

What do you think about HEM's reaction to DkKoba vs GL scumreading them (appeasement vs argument)?

I think HEM is playing around Koba the same way I would if I were scum. Facing them head on doesn't work, but they're really easy to manipulate and play around. It's why I think Gamma is also scum because they're doing to the exact same thing.

HEM's reaction to GL felt heavily manufactured. I've already made this point two other times, but GL and I made similar arguments against HEM, yet GL was the one who took all the heat. Even now, I'm getting accused of not scum hunting, but no matter how many times I bring it up my scum hunting just seems to get ignored.

[Roden]

Also HEM became lurky as fuck once I started protesting the game state, and he keeps dodging having to directly engage with me. They've popped in a couple times to say "GL scum" and that's about it, their earlier fire is entirely gone. That's another major reason why I believe his aggression towards GL was manufactured and not a real scum read.

PE: VOTE: HEM

[Roden]

HEM's reaction to GL felt heavily manufactured. I've already made this point two other times, but GL and I made similar arguments against HEM, yet GL was the one who took all the heat. Even now, I'm getting accused of not scum hunting, but no matter how many times I bring it up my scum hunting just seems to get ignored.

tell me how my feelings are invalid

This AtE deserves a day vig shot.

[Roden]

That's pretty clearly not a joke

I sent you my case twice

[Roden]

i tend to value in thread interactions > pressuring whats not there when im town

when im scum its like easier for me to get caught up with players not here so i can appear busy and not advance anything

why not just wait? you have a wagon on him.

though you switching to me is actually +town

lolwut
I actually think you're town here koba???

yeah actually me too now

UNVOTE:

can you tell us about dwlee in your hood?

Low key wondering why no one has brought my name up yet or accused me of lurking. But Chaos hasn't posted yet either I guess.

I can't believe that quoted early lmao, I hit cut but I guess it didn't matter.

Anyway that was gonna be my reason for voting HEM because I caught up already and that looked like scum trying to appease someone who was scum reading them.

VOTE: HEM

@HEM:

Why did you get so aggressive and angry with GL when they essentially made the same read on you as I did? You ignored my read and vote and instead mauled GL for it even though they explained the read in much more detail than I had.

Why is Roden more concerned with defending GL than finding scum

No that's just the only thing people want to respond to. I've made a case on you twice now, and it was ignored by you and everyone else both times.

[Roden]

these are your cases??

#240 i'm not trying to appease koba, i was sorting him.
#483 i scumread GL because how he behaved around his vote, his reads, and what town motivation should be is incongruent. you voted me. it's not the same.

jeez i thought you had more

Downplaying it like this does not make me feel better about you at all.

I did more than vote you, I gave a reason for it. GL did the exact same thing. The problem is not that you scum read him for it, but that you were very aggressive towards him for it, but not me. We made similar reads but you only engaged with him about the read. Anything you engaged with me about was very specifically about other players.

Furthermore, you actually town read GL for his behavior/reads/town motivation at first, and only swapped over to scum reading him when GL wouldn't budge and others began to openly call GL scummy. You didn't revert back to calling him town again until after his wagon died down.

[Roden]

remember: GL scumread me but didn't vote for me because he thought Dwlee was worth pressuring. The problem is: He already progressed that read to null, but backtracked to justify the vote parking. I see him dictate that "I just made one comment how could that be changing my read!" but one comment is enough to signal that your read has changed. So he was parking his vote on dwlee even though his scumread was yelling at his face for a full page. it didn't matter if he changed his behavior around my slot. the initial reaction was all i cared about.

though i'm gonna review what else happened with the rest of the day to get a better picture of the game.

How exactly does that make GL scummy? If he didn't want to switch his vote over to his scum read because that player was actually his scum buddy, then I could see that argument. But the scum read was...you. So why does scum keep their vote on null read Dwlee and decide they don't want to vote you yet?

[Roden]

I did more than vote you, I gave a reason for it. GL did the exact same thing. The problem is not that you scum read him for it, but that you were very aggressive towards him for it, but not me. We made similar reads but you only engaged with him about the read. Anything you engaged with me about was very specifically about other players.

what? were you expecting me to scumread you just for voting me? is that what you think is my reason for scumreading GL?

The problem is

not

that you scum read him for it, but that you were very aggressive towards him for it, but not me. We made similar reads but you only engaged with him about the read. Anything you engaged with me about was very specifically about other players.

[Roden]

i didn't scumread him for his scumread on me. i scumread him for his activity despite his scumread on me. see the difference?

Are you just purposely misconstruing what I'm saying now?

I did more than vote you, I gave a reason for it. GL did the exact same thing. The problem is not that you scum read him for it, but that you were very aggressive towards him for it, but not me. We made similar reads but you only engaged with him about the read. Anything you engaged with me about was very specifically about other players.

what? were you expecting me to scumread you just for voting me? is that what you think is my reason for scumreading GL?

The problem is

not

that you scum read him for it, but that you were very aggressive towards him for it, but not me. We made similar reads but you only engaged with him about the read. Anything you engaged with me about was very specifically about other players.

scum would keep their vote on dwlee for multiple reasons. 1) it was safe 2) it doesn't have to build consensus from group up (by voting me) 3) it can still develop into a limmable wagon

1) What makes it safe?

2) Untrue, Koba and I were already voting you.

3) Why is elimming Dwlee worse than elimming you?

[Roden]

Furthermore, you actually town read GL for his behavior/reads/town motivation at first, and only swapped over to scum reading him when GL wouldn't budge and others began to openly call GL scummy. You didn't revert back to calling him town again until after his wagon died down.

wouldn't budge where? what did you think was i trying to do there?

you cant seriously think dwlee wakes up and become instantly pressured by the votes in his wagon. do you?

why dont you vote me instead and push me if you really think im scum. let's see how you can sustain that.

3 votes are more pressure than 2. and there's no telling what will happen if they come back, make a scummy post and people point out that it's scummy, then Dwlee might pick up even more votes

I'm not vibing with the attempt to control my vote here, all this is doing is making me feel like you want me to move my vote off of Dwlee. I'll push you if and when I see fit

even if you're not convinced and you nullread him at best, your vote could be productive as it would lead to a gamestate where we have actual wagons.

[pushes GL to vote him instead of Leading Wagon Dwlee]

[then posts this]

are you even hearing yourself???

[Roden]

lion thinks dwlee is scum for being "frozen" (not being able to reply as soon as, a thing made up by koba through their reaction test) and being overly defensive (which he also later realized that it could just be personality). sound like he null reads dwlee, right? (he later reinforces that he finds Dwlee still scummy for these reasons, backtracking on his progress on the slot).

meanwhile, he scumreads me but refuses to do more with my slot than slinging questions on my alignment. why? because he still wants to pressure his nullread Dwlee (whose wagon has fizzled out). why won't he pressure the scum that — in his town!POV — dragging his town name to the ground and engaging him right to his face? the answer is he's not town, and he's trying hard not to escalate.

even if you're not convinced and you nullread him at best, your vote could be productive as it would lead to a gamestate where we have actual wagons.

This post also heavily contradicts the notion that you think voting Dwlee was "safe" and "easier" to do than voting you. Voting a fizzled out wagon is neither of those things.

[Roden]

what would your reaction be if i just straight up tell you now that i'm town. would this save you energy? or do you know this after all?

you're barking up the wrong tree

That would literally tell me nothing.

[Roden]

consider that i flip town. what does that mean for your game here?

A reduced PoE, because I'm town and I town read the people who have voted you so far.

[Roden]

tell me about your other reads

Tictac
Shadow
GL
Koba
Dwlee
NK15

Marci
Chaos
Meuh

Gamma
HEM

Town/null/scum

The only ones not really mentioned in my ISO are Shadow, Marci, and Chaos. I liked Shadow's catch up post, effort =/= town but there was still way more effort than expected, and the contents itself was townie. Marci and Chaos haven't pinged me much one way or another, but I feel like I can read Marci over time, and since I town read Koba I can just defer to them for now on Chaos until I get something more alignment indicative out of them.

[Roden]

My brain has been churning and I think I am at the point where I agree with Roden’s idea that the game being stagnant when it was indicates GL is town. That doesn’t really alleviate my feelings on Roden tho, it just affects how I see GL

I can't agree with that. The game was stagnant because there was hidden resistance to the GL wagon, which immediately surfaced when GL was put to E-1.

What does this even mean...?

[Roden]

tell me about your other reads

Tictac
Shadow
GL
Koba
Dwlee
NK15

Marci
Chaos
Meuh

Gamma
HEM

Town/null/scum

The only ones not really mentioned in my ISO are Shadow, Marci, and Chaos. I liked Shadow's catch up post, effort =/= town but there was still way more effort than expected, and the contents itself was townie. Marci and Chaos haven't pinged me much one way or another, but I feel like I can read Marci over time, and since I town read Koba I can just defer to them for now on Chaos until I get something more alignment indicative out of them.

tell me about gamma

VOTE: Gamma

The L-1 vote with no conviction even though he's mentioned GL as a suspect reads bad, like he knows GL will flip town and is already trying to pivot. It coming right after GL's post that my vote is +town for bravery is a funny juxtaposition. Have to go, will be back on later tonight.

I only really voted there in order to progress the game, with the expectation being that I would cause some reactions from folks were weren't okay with a hammer happening. I do feel like GL's reaction is at least okay rn. Meuh I'm a little interested in her reaction but Roden's was definitely the one that pinged me immediately.

Also, I'll back the statement that Koba has a good read rate on chaos

I town read you initially but the read is disintegrating before my eyes at this point.

You keep saying that I'm pinging you but you won't explain why. You keep accusing me of things, but when I press you to explain it turns out you don't have an actual answer or explanation. You're just saying things and hoping that you're blindly believed/that I won't push back in a logical way.

This is exactly why I brought up Open 835 earlier. Because at least when you were making a meta read there, even though you were completely wrong you still tried to explain how you came to your conclusion. We had a sizable back and forth but in the end, you eventually admitted you were wrong and backed off, and I was able to town read you for genuinely believing in your case against me.

None of that is happening here though. You're making meta accusations but you aren't trying to back up any of them. Tictac even just said your meta read of "Roden does argument tricks as scum" was incorrect and that it was more

your

meta, but you ignored that to repeat how much I'm pinging you.

You're not doing any real solving, and honestly your town meta of asking questions and diving into player motivations has been entirely absent.

VOTE: Gamma

I'm 100% confident Roden doesn't "swoop in" to defend me like that as scum, there wouldn't be a need to

actually why tho

because I'm town and at E-1, what on earth does scum Roden gain from pushing so hard against the wagon that he attracts attention/votes instead? I'm useful to keep around scum should want me gone

I get that it will look different to someone who doesn't know my alignment but I give exactly 0% chance Roden had any scum agenda to what he posted. The better question is why do you think it's a scum-indicative action?

I think it's scum indicative

how

he went about defending you. It felt like he had too much skin in the game there. The only feasible explanation I could see for town!Roden to have felt that way would be if he had a tangible townread on you before the E-1.

This is more of what I'm talking about. You've either learned nothing from Open 835, or you're just scum. And I really hope it isn't the former, because at this point you scum read me for catching scum and if I'm ever correct then I'm bussing, you scum read me for having accurate town reads and if I'mever correct then I'm informed, you don't think it's possible for me to accurately town read amd defend a townie at E-1...

Like, just fucking say you think my town game is garbage already. If you think I can only ever have correct reads as scum then there's no point in ever trying to engage with you.

I don’t feel like this is like open 835, is the thing! That game it felt like I could actually talk to you. This game, and in past games where you’ve been scum, you’ve had a hostile aura.

This is blatantly untrue, what the fuck.

I rlly feel like this is not an argument where both parties are acting in good faith
I am not pre-judging that i's roden acting in bad faith tho

Can you explain?

Also do you plan to respond to my earlier posts? Are you just going to park your vote on me or are you going to play?

idk if I can put a pin on it rn but something definitely doesn't feel right about y'alls interactions
and idc to respond unless I get something to change the feeling that you're just gonna take what I say and spin it to make me look bad, because I sensed that as your motive in ln 235 and I feel like that's your motive here

yeah nah I'm fine to sit where I'm at and refuse to elaborate further

I'll give content if someone I care to engage with asks for it

Like you're actively refusing to talk to me here.

Also your "hostile aura/anger" meta was even disproven in this game??

How did you even come to this conclusion that "anger = scum" when it's always been the complete opposite?

Because I feel like there’s a pattern in games where you’re scum of “I push Roden on something > he freaks out about it > he flips scum” so it might just be your base reaction and I’m having a positive feedback loop

So are you town that learned nothing and actively choosing to make the same mistakes, or are you scum trying to massage Koba's ego so you can get what you want?

[Roden]

the contents itself was townie

can you tell me what contents are townie

The individual questions/comments/analysis for every player in the game. Scum can do that, but I don't think they go that extra by making them so specific and tailor made. They aren't generic things like "how do you feel about X" or "I think this is townie". Also I just like knowing that they have a serious investment in the game. At the very least, I don't think they should ever be a Day 1 elim.

[Roden]

Roden, townreading me wont placate me. Explain your progression on GL and why you reached such a confident townread

Only when you stop hiding your Dwlee progression in your hood

[Roden]

I'm 100% confident Roden doesn't "swoop in" to defend me like that as scum, there wouldn't be a need to

actually why tho

because I'm town and at E-1, what on earth does scum Roden gain from pushing so hard against the wagon that he attracts attention/votes instead? I'm useful to keep around scum should want me gone

I get that it will look different to someone who doesn't know my alignment but I give exactly 0% chance Roden had any scum agenda to what he posted. The better question is why do you think it's a scum-indicative action?

I think it's scum indicative

how

he went about defending you. It felt like he had too much skin in the game there. The only feasible explanation I could see for town!Roden to have felt that way would be if he had a tangible townread on you before the E-1.

Is there motivation for scum!Roden to make that defense for town!GL?

Yea
Pocketing GL, as well as turning things onto me

???

What? How could I have possibly planned for you doing anything that you did?

[Roden]

Who in this playerlist would be able to quickhammer and explain it away as towny?

Townies do it all the time, I don't know why you think this isn't possible. I just came from a game where town!Math quick hammered a scum read Day 1 before we got a claim. They flipped town JOAT. It's really that uncommon, especially when confbias is involved.

[Roden]

I'm 100% confident Roden doesn't "swoop in" to defend me like that as scum, there wouldn't be a need to

actually why tho

because I'm town and at E-1, what on earth does scum Roden gain from pushing so hard against the wagon that he attracts attention/votes instead? I'm useful to keep around scum should want me gone

I get that it will look different to someone who doesn't know my alignment but I give exactly 0% chance Roden had any scum agenda to what he posted. The better question is why do you think it's a scum-indicative action?

I think it's scum indicative

how

he went about defending you. It felt like he had too much skin in the game there. The only feasible explanation I could see for town!Roden to have felt that way would be if he had a tangible townread on you before the E-1.

Is there motivation for scum!Roden to make that defense for town!GL?

Yea
Pocketing GL, as well as turning things onto me

???

What? How could I have possibly planned for you doing anything that you did?

didn't you only really start defending GL when I put him at E-1?

I'm not arguing that. You're claiming I did it to turn things around on you. I'm asking how it's possible that I could've planned for you to take the actions you took in order for me to do so. I never scum read you for putting GL at E-1 so you can't even accuse me of trying to pivot his wagon momentum onto you, since my scum read on you happened around the time the wagon began to ease up.

[Roden]

Who in this playerlist would be able to quickhammer and explain it away as towny?

Townies do it all the time, I don't know why you think this isn't possible. I just came from a game where town!Math quick hammered a scum read Day 1 before we got a claim. They flipped town JOAT. It's really that uncommon, especially when confbias is involved.

ok you say "townies do it"

but identify a single player here who would.

i see 0.

Literally anyone could. If you didn't think it was possible, you wouldn't have said you'd unvote if someone made an intent to hammer.

[Roden]

Roden, townreading me wont placate me. Explain your progression on GL and why you reached such a confident townread

Only when you stop hiding your Dwlee progression in your hood

u see i dont care to bc no one is voting me rn so pee pee poo poo.

Anti-town but ok.

for the 37th time why is GL town to you, please cite your progression on the slot.

The funny thing is that I actually answered this twice now but you keep ignoring it. But I'm not expecting anything less from someone purposely choosing to play against the town wincon.

[Roden]

ngl i wish people spent more time actually reading what i say rather than assuming things, as it would make it easier for me

Please take your own advice

[Roden]

Roden, townreading me wont placate me. Explain your progression on GL and why you reached such a confident townread

Only when you stop hiding your Dwlee progression in your hood

u see i dont care to bc no one is voting me rn so pee pee poo poo.

Anti-town but ok.

for the 37th time why is GL town to you, please cite your progression on the slot.

The funny thing is that I actually answered this twice now but you keep ignoring it. But I'm not expecting anything less from someone purposely choosing to play against the town wincon.

i think voting scum is pro-town wincon tho ?



also i missed it then, can you requote it to put focus on it for me?

Refusing to elaborate on your reads is anti town.

I'll requote when you start giving the reads people have been asking for.

[Roden]

ok well so u cant use it against me i will say that dwlee has started to be solvy in hood and talking to me in a way that isnt pockety as well as expressing reasonable paranoia and thats why i shifted my read on them silently.

Also I'm not really feeling the votes on Meuh right now. Is it possible they're scum defending townies for town cred? Sure. But I don't think that should be the first assumption, and even more I really don't think they should be today's priority.

Also also, NK15 is giving me "yelling into the void" vibes, I feel like no one's paying much attention to them despite their bold claims. Game state makes me think they're town for it though.

So why do you townread GL?

Wtf is this garbage wagon? Is there any particular reason you guys want to vote out the only person keeping the game alive? Like do none of you see that the further this wagon builds the more quiet this game gets? Game state alone shows that this is a wagon on town and that scum are just waiting for town to hammer for an easy Day 1.

@HEM:

Why did you get so aggressive and angry with GL when they essentially made the same read on you as I did? You ignored my read and vote and instead mauled GL for it even though they explained the read in much more detail than I had.

why are you suddenly hard defending them?

Because GL is obvtown and the game state wouldn't be this dead if town caught scum

Because I made the exact same read as GL and wasn't even questioned about it

Because I've been lurky this game and no one, not even the people getting run up, are pointing it out

[Roden]

oh that

that doesnt exactly explain your progression to townreading GL unless I assume you just binned GL for being loud.

why did you find GL obvtown? Have you played against GL scum before, actually?

Nah I don't bin anyone for being loud, or at least not in a vacuum. You can be loud and still be scum; it's a collection of factors that matters to me.

I find GL obvtown because of the game state and the speed/randomness of his wagon. I've only played with him once though, and we were TvT there, so I'm not using meta here to read him. He does feel pretty much the same as that town game though.

[Roden]

But I don't think that should be the first assumption, and even more I really don't think they should be today's priority.

why not? someone who's detached from a lot of the real meat/content in the game is usually where I want attention focused rather than the people duking it out

Attention is fine, but barring some kind of scum slip or random burst of posts dripping with scumminess, I don't really see any reason to elim Meuh over my main scum reads.

[Roden]

@Dwlee:

You are the only other player here who was also in Superfight. What do you think of NK15's play this game compared to there?

[Roden]

@Dwlee:

You are the only other player here who was also in Superfight. What do you think of NK15's play this game compared to there?

NK kinda just flopped immediately there so I'm not sure what to expect of his scum game if he doesn't do that.

True, but I'm wondering more if you think he sounds tonally similar or different.

[Roden]

@Gamma:

Can we get an updated town/null/scum reads list?

[Roden]

Did you really build up all this anticipation just to OMGUS

[Roden]

How many fucking times do I need to quote that post

[Roden]

You reread the game and somehow missed that even though I posted it four different times??

[Roden]

why do you scumread dwlee gamma

I haven't seen anything to go against the point that they reacted poorly to Koba's traitor claim

Is this the only reason you scum read Dwlee? Nothing else?

[Roden]

bad faith question

How?? You were asked why you scum read Dwlee, and you only gave one reason. If you have more than one reason I don't see how that could possibly be bad faith to ask for it.

[Roden]

bad faith question

But it would be greatly beneficial for day 2, because we could stop wasting our time with mechanically confirmed town.

How would anyone be mechanically confirmed as town?

[Roden]

Based on my interactions with HEM, the answer should be obvious. So it comes across as you doing evil lawyer things, asking questions with intent to push me once I respond for a line of logic you've already cooked up.

Instead of doing whatever the fuck it is you're doing here, could you just answer the question

[Roden]

Like I literally asked you for a reads list and you think it's bad faith for me to explain your reads after??

[Roden]

Making me look up the wiki to make sure Jester isn't a normal role at this point

[Roden]

Like I literally asked you for a reads list and you think it's bad faith for me to ask you to explain your reads after??

[Roden]

Like I literally asked you for a reads list and you think it's bad faith for me to explain your reads after??

you asked for a basic read list, there was no indication you wanted explanation for any of them

[Roden]

Gamma I am struggling to believe I didn't accidentally sign up for a bastard game at this point

[Roden]

Wow

[Roden]

Ok next time just say your scum read is based off of one thing from the start of the game instead of saying that asking for read explanations is bad faith

[Roden]

What do you think of Dwlee's posts after their bad reaction and how they've formed their reads since then?

[Roden]

i do not think you understand tone or are partners with meuh so im just not going to bother here.

Ok let me try. Why is Meuh a better choice than Chaos? What pings you about Meuh that makes you think they're "scared"? What is Chaos doing differently that doesn't make you think they're "scared"?

[Roden]

Why would I vote a town or null read instead of you, who I scum read? Granted, I keep almost thinking you could be town until you say really scummy shit out of nowhere again, but yeah I'm pretty sure you flip red.

Besides, the only player worth flipping of your selected three is Meuh. NK15 and Chaos have almost no associatives or readable post-flip content. But also I already said I didn't want to flip Meuh Day 1 so uh, bad PoE. Also lazy PoE tbh.

[Roden]

Roden, NK15 — My elim is not gonna happen. Choose between Meuh, Omega. Roden, you can also choose NK15.

Do you all still think that HEM is town?
That monkey is even giving me "advice" despite scumreading me!
Stop mislimming lhf devoid of associatives and lim scum.
VOTE: HEM

Oof, nevermind this is a really scummy post

VOTE: NK15

[Roden]

you say really scummy shit out of nowhere again

whats this again?

Your ISO

[Roden]

wasnt a good comeback the first time nk15 said it
not a good comeback now

but as long as i have your vote

Wow, this was somehow worse

VOTE: HEM

[Roden]

Why do we no elim Day 1? Just flip your scum reads.

[Roden]

it's obvious that this metaread isn't super-organic and coming from town because it's basically wrong. the only explanation is you guys discussed this amongst yourselves in the scum thread when talking about who to wagon so that you guys won't lose a member in D1.

I'll answer the other posts in a bit because I'm at work and don't have a whole lot of time, but this post sticks out to me really badly. I made this exact argument against Gamma because he made the same meta read on me last time I was town and was proven wrong, yet he's doing it again and has apparently learned nothing. Why is Gamma's bad meta a non-factor for you, but Meuh's supposed bad meta means she has to be scum here?

[Roden]

Told you they were both town.

[Roden]

I want to flash wagon Koba or Enchant if this isn't a real guilty

[Roden]

VOTE: Koba

Maybe Koba will claim their results instead of fucking around if we put them at E-1?

[Roden]

Do any of you think town!koba doesn't talk for a week in a hood with me especially when I was busy IRL and they normally constantly bug me if I don't post for like 16 hours

Nope, Koba is definitely scum, what I thought was a town ping early in the game was just scum seeing a PR soft and backing off for town cred.

[Roden]

I refuse to believe that the easily bored town!Enchant I played with won't put Meuh on E-1 here immediately upon entrance.

Gamma/Enchant can be scum.

GE wagon can happen if we recruit 2 more people.

This is likely right btw.

[Roden]

will the other mason please standup

nvm please no one answer this

roden is pretty obv mason rofl

Yeah I'm Mason, now please self vote or vote Enchant

[Roden]

Do any of you think town!koba doesn't talk for a week in a hood with me especially when I was busy IRL and they normally constantly bug me if I don't post for like 16 hours

Nope, Koba is definitely scum, what I thought was a town ping early in the game was just scum seeing a PR soft and backing off for town cred.

consider: im good at this game and knew you were informed and now ur showing the classic symptoms of mason ego.

Luckily this time i can provide a scum who blundered their hoodplay

"Ego" LMAO

Do you have any self awareness Koba

You literally attacked me all game and kept trying to flip me so uh, yeah good job catching that I'm a Mason lol

[Roden]

roden i play a deeper game than u do, i wanted dwlee to kill your masonry bc i wanted to live(selfish) so i told them my read there so that it would confirm you town.

I think masonries are -ev when they think theyre hero players, on par with vigs, so yeah

Are you ok

[Roden]

I literally swindled dwlee and u decide to ego play, literally f off bc i can read every aspect of the game.
U TMId GL and i was right. My reading is genuine.

You can read all aspects of the game but pushed both Masons D1 and mis-elim'd another townie who I also said was town

Ok

[Roden]

roden i play a deeper game than u do, i wanted dwlee to kill your masonry bc i wanted to live(selfish) so i told them my read there so that it would confirm you town.

I think masonries are -ev when they think theyre hero players, on par with vigs, so yeah

Are you ok

no im tilted that im getting a repeat of a game where i got mislimmed by masons being ego players bc i dared to suspect them for having TMI

Nice AtE

If you suspected Masons why did you push both of them and repeatedly try to get me to explain my read on GL? If you thought I was a Mason you would've just dropped it. It's also just anti-town to out Masons so I'm not sure why you think this means you're town.

[Roden]

Roden what do you think about my words

Which ones?

[Roden]

Roden what do you think about my words

Which ones?

so it's easy right

elim koba's hard guilty
if it flips town, then elim koba

if koba is town, at least we can count on his result and scum wanting to kill him to stop the result.

unless koba has a wiggle room to say that "oh my bad didn't know dwlee could be scum it wasn't a hard guilty after all"

Even if Koba is a town Rolecop, they don't die tonight. They ensured that by claiming that I'm a Mason. If scum, that was done to have an excuse to live longer. If town, it's a selfish and honestly game-throwing play to make sure scum kills conftown over a scummy slot.

They also told Dwlee GL was a PR to have a scapegoat once scum killed GL. Pretty sure town!Koba doesn't do any of this. They have a massive ego, but they don't go out of their way as town to purposely kill conftowns just to save themself. They're a solver, not a one-person army, and currently they're acting like an exaggerated cartoon version of themself.

the not right thing to do is let the hard guilty live and flipping the investigative, and then the next day we still dont know anything about the hard guilty or having any additional information from the investigative

Koba took back the hard guilty.

ok i rolecopped dwlee and they were just neighbor, they hardclaimed an extra PR d1.

[Roden]

Mechs>reads when im holding the guilty

Spoiler: oops

nah HEM you are implying I am scum and are afraid of town!me gaining any power <3 i know scum fear when i see it

ggwp see u next game HEM/NK15/Dwlee

nono, surely each neighbourhood having a scum is too easy? i think maybe only one neighbourhood would have a scum in it

a) its an RC setup, he would never let it be setup gamed like that. b) fuck mechs anyways just use the hood as day play.

atm i'm leaning dwlee/NK15 both being scum.

you have never played with me in a closed game, so you should know that I am a vehemently against lumping mechplay with dayplay and strictly forcing people to make reads off dayplay.

the only exception being if there is a flipped cop with reports on alive players.

i have my reasons for it, and they all amount to bullshit losses or near losses due to focus on mechplay.

so excuse me for like being allergic to people claiming shit based on mechs and not wanting a repeat.

despite myself PoEing the entire scumteam on D1 and told people to shove mechs, was killed n1

also re:scp upick, I lost bc i couldnt find LLD or T3 as town, not bc i couldnt find dwlee.

LLD had 0% readrate in that game pre replace out and i had no way to question the progression there to figure out why that was and had to take that at face value

LLD claimed Vig, shot mis-elim bait, and wasn't contested. What else was there to read?

i value dayplay>mechaplay being a vig in a protective heavy setup was not clearing

Anyway I'm keeping my vote here.

[Roden]

yes i do kill conftowns to protect myself.
Im selfish
I do whatever it takes to live n1 if im onto scum.

I don't believe this for a second lol. Post some town examples.

Everytime i die n1 in a game it goes to shit.
I didnt need that here esp since i randed a pr

I got what i assume will maybe be the most value i can get other than catching a traitor maybe

If you were dead N1 we'd have two conftown going into a 10p D2 and we would know you were telling the truth.

I have zero reason to believe you, your reads have been shit all game. You only had three major pushes D1 and they were all town. You've been lying about almost everything and hard stopped us from scum hunting within the hoods just to say "btw my hood has scum " by using mech play over day play.

Convince me that you're town.

[Roden]

this is why i outted you roden rofl
I have 0 patience for clears who play like you do when im busy fucking up scum
My legacy is tictac + chaos, if either are a miss, shadowgirl should be a hit.

This isn't single player story mode mafia lol

If you scum read the entire player list then yes you'll eventually be right lol

[Roden]

breaking news: masons dont understand jokes and go straight to ego

No I'm just ND but thanks for setting off my social anxiety with all of these fucking pointless personal attacks

I'm also sick of these "ego" accusations. I'm not the one forcing my will onto the entire player list and bullying people into doing what I want. I'm not the one saying I deserve credit for solving the game. I'm not the one postimg hero solves every other game. I'm not the one playing fucking story mode. I'm literally just trying to play the game I signed up for, and you're getting pissy that I won't blindly trust you and let you solo solve the game.

For whatever fucking reason you just think I'm a level zero player with predictable straight forward play. You don't even understand why I voted you today even though I made it clear all of D1 that you were essentially town locked. You turned this day into a stupid shitfest and fucked the game state up so badly that I can't do anything today without it looking like I'm voting you for personal/emotional reasons. I do play emotionally but that was never the point of my interactions with you. Your head's so far up your own ass that you never stopped to think about why I was doing the things I was doing and that maybe, just maybe, I had a sense of nuance.

But no go ahead Koba, fucking solo solve the game and ignore everyone else's reads. I don't give a shit anymore.

UNVOTE:

[Roden]

Yes Dwlee is scum. Enchant is also scum, GL agreed as much in the Mason PT. HEM pointed out Enchant's hesitance to put Meuh at E-1, and GL said that town!Enchant wouldn't give a shit.

The reason GL died and not me is because I was tunneled on HEM while GL set him aside as town. Scum wanted me to go after HEM today. That's also why Gamma switched to rallying for a HEM elim near EoD. Gamna also has a history of replacing out as scum under pressure. There's just too many points against the slot.

I wanted to bait out the final scum by seeing who would rally with me to kill Koba but that got fucking ruined.

[Roden]

Roden, this is pretty dumb, but did GL crumb you and did you crumb GL? asking because i had marci as the other mason.

Look at my opening posts. Then look at GL's posts at around the same time I started posting.

I was going to pretend to fake Mason claim and say we never crumbed but I don't care anymore. I want to die and get the fuck out of this game.

[Roden]

VOTE: Dwlee

[Roden]

VOTE: Enchant

Just realized the issue with our current assumptions. If Koba actually is a Traitor, they actually gain a lot by faking a guilty on Dwlee. They essentially get to kill the Doc and send the main scum team to MELO for free. Koba getting caught lying doesn't matter if the scum team end up in MELO regardless, especially since all of the attention at that point has just been on Koba/Dwlee for two days straight, and scum doesn't have to build associatives or pretend to solve during that time.

[Roden]

Also, both of their roles are weird. Why does town have a Rolecop instead of a PT Cop or Traffic Analyst in this set up? And what exactly is a Simple Doctor supposed to do when we have four people in hoods and two Masons? Even if everyone else is a VT, that only leaves six viable protection targets.

[Roden]

Oh and the content

They said if GL and Roden aren't masons to eliminate them

What date in the hood did Koba compare me and GL to IV and House?

[Roden]

Down to the hour and minute as well if possible.

[Roden]

Dwlee just got gotcha'd, there's nothing left to debate there. If it never came up in the hood, more than enough time had passed that Dwlee should've said so by now. The post that Shadowgirl quoted was the exact one I had in mind because it was posted March 25th, the date Dwlee claims Koba stopped posting in the hood.

The real issue we need to solve is if Dwlee slipped or if they "slipped". Because if they figured they were going down anyway, they could be pulling a stunt similar to what I did in SCP.

[Roden]

Dwlee just got gotcha'd, there's nothing left to debate there. If it never came up in the hood, more than enough time had passed that Dwlee should've said so by now. The post that Shadowgirl quoted was the exact one I had in mind because it was posted March 25th, the date Dwlee claims Koba stopped posting in the hood.

The real issue we need to solve is if Dwlee slipped or if they "slipped". Because if they figured they were going down anyway, they could be pulling a stunt similar to what I did in SCP.

this is in no way similar to SCP, first off being a) im town b) fuck u c) did i mention im town

That wasn't in reference to your alignment.

[Roden]

No, it was to fake spew Dwlee as town. I faked a slip to draw attention away from my scum buddies and create fake associatives with town. I mainly did so because my slot was doomed even if I bussed Dwlee, but it wasn't true the other way around.

This isn't happening with you vs Dwlee because you both opened today attacking each other. If Dwlee is scum I think it's reasonable to think they would try to fake spew.

[Roden]

No, it was to fake spew Dwlee as town. I faked a slip to draw attention away from my scum buddies and create fake associatives with town. I mainly did so because my slot was doomed even if I bussed Dwlee, but it wasn't true the other way around.

This isn't happening with you vs Dwlee because you both opened today attacking each other. If Dwlee is scum I think it's reasonable to think they would try to fake spew.

Meant to add: who would benefit from pushing Dwlee now?

[Roden]

Dwlee just got gotcha'd, there's nothing left to debate there. If it never came up in the hood, more than enough time had passed that Dwlee should've said so by now. The post that Shadowgirl quoted was the exact one I had in mind because it was posted March 25th, the date Dwlee claims Koba stopped posting in the hood.

The real issue we need to solve is if Dwlee slipped or if they "slipped". Because if they figured they were going down anyway, they could be pulling a stunt similar to what I did in SCP.

Are you capable of reading?

Roden I actually don't understand how you think I'm scum because Koba didn't tell me about this game in the hood but instead over discord in February. Please explain how that makes sense at all

Didn't you just say that Koba told you in your hood that me and GL were either Masons or scum buddies?

[Roden]

No, it was to fake spew Dwlee as town. I faked a slip to draw attention away from my scum buddies and create fake associatives with town. I mainly did so because my slot was doomed even if I bussed Dwlee, but it wasn't true the other way around.

This isn't happening with you vs Dwlee because you both opened today attacking each other. If Dwlee is scum I think it's reasonable to think they would try to fake spew.

Meant to add: who would benefit from pushing Dwlee now?

Town?

Cool meme, but I said who, not what.

[Roden]

Okay, I focused on Day 2 for now solely.

Since we have a Town Mason dead, we need the other one to claim. I saw a claim from

Roden

and no counterclaim, am I correct? If there's no counterclaim then

Roden

is basically confirmed town and should be treated as such.

Roden

, was there anyone else in your Mason neighbourhood?

I understand that there is a guilty claim on

Dwlee99

. What's the guilty claim? I don't get this part.

What? Why would I say if there were other Masons?

[Roden]

Okay, I focused on Day 2 for now solely.

Since we have a Town Mason dead, we need the other one to claim. I saw a claim from

Roden

and no counterclaim, am I correct? If there's no counterclaim then

Roden

is basically confirmed town and should be treated as such.

Roden

, was there anyone else in your Mason neighbourhood?

I understand that there is a guilty claim on

Dwlee99

. What's the guilty claim? I don't get this part.

Dwlee just got gotcha'd, there's nothing left to debate there. If it never came up in the hood, more than enough time had passed that Dwlee should've said so by now. The post that Shadowgirl quoted was the exact one I had in mind because it was posted March 25th, the date Dwlee claims Koba stopped posting in the hood.

The real issue we need to solve is if Dwlee slipped or if they "slipped". Because if they figured they were going down anyway, they could be pulling a stunt similar to what I did in SCP.

Are you capable of reading?

Roden I actually don't understand how you think I'm scum because Koba didn't tell me about this game in the hood but instead over discord in February. Please explain how that makes sense at all

Didn't you just say that Koba told you in your hood that me and GL were either Masons or scum buddies?

Yes, and they did do that. But they never mentioned IV or house in the hood which is what I was responding to...

So they mention it everywhere except in your actual hood? That's...weird.

Actually, what's going on in your hood right now?

[Roden]

So they mention it everywhere except in your actual hood? That's...weird.

Actually, what's going on in your hood right now?

Nothing is

Not even Koba gloating that they're gonna mis-elim you for free again?

Like, they've been gloating and bragging about how smart they are and that they have a PhD in Mafia all throughout this thread. But they aren't even sending you a "lol" or one of these in your hood?

[Roden]

What suspects if we choosing between Dwlee/Koba

You.

[Roden]

Please flip Enchant tomorrow, thanks.

[Roden]

I...what? I'm sorry, why am I alive?

[Roden]

I'm pretty sure we just win now, don't we? We have three conftowns: me, Koba, and whoever the Vig is. Idk why they didn't kill any claimed roles but uh, I'm gonna still try to win if you just keep me around.

[Roden]

VOTE: Shadowgirl

[Roden]

Remember what I said yesterday?

[Roden]

No, it was to fake spew Dwlee as town. I faked a slip to draw attention away from my scum buddies and create fake associatives with town. I mainly did so because my slot was doomed even if I bussed Dwlee, but it wasn't true the other way around.

This isn't happening with you vs Dwlee because you both opened today attacking each other. If Dwlee is scum I think it's reasonable to think they would try to fake spew.

Meant to add: who would benefit from pushing Dwlee now?

[Roden]

NM bus Shadow please.

[Roden]

I don't think it really makes sense to put two mafia together in a hood. If Koba is a Traitor then that was a throw tbh, but I still don't see a reason to put a Traitor in a hood with the scum team. Scum/Traitor hood is slightly more likely than a scum/scum hood, but overall still not particularly likely at all.

If for some reason Koba is a Traitor and actively chose to hard throw the game by bussing the only person who could communicate plans to the other scum buddy, they still lose if we just kill Dwlee's partner.

[Roden]

How you explain Dwlee foresight then?

I for example can't predict like "HMMM I FEEL KOBA HAVE GUILTY ON ME, SO I LIE AND FORCE 1VS1."

Dwlee and HEM more or less already pointed out why Dwlee knew Koba was going to push them.

Btw koba predicted guiltylion mason in the hood which is probably why scum killed them

frame you for the murder since he spewed

or

you killed GL based on Koba's hint?

[Roden]

I don't think it really makes sense to put two mafia together in a hood. If Koba is a Traitor then that was a throw tbh, but I still don't see a reason to put a Traitor in a hood with the scum team. Scum/Traitor hood is slightly more likely than a scum/scum hood, but overall still not particularly likely at all.

If for some reason Koba is a Traitor and actively chose to hard throw the game by bussing the only person who could communicate plans to the other scum buddy, they still lose if we just kill Dwlee's partner.

I think it was a poorly executed bus not a throw

However one of NM/Shadowgirl have to be scum due to lack of hammer

So imho the elim pool should be those three

And still awaiting a vig claim

I think it could be both of them, but I feel a little more strongly on Shadow.

[Roden]

Mathblade, why are you hard softing vig?

Koba's been ignoring me in neighborhood
VOTE: Koba

This came first

You have your OOO wrong Roden

Dwlee claimed Koba ignoring then Koba claimed mason open in the thread

This gives scum kill cover and allows reaction testing for the second masons as evidenced by lack of mason death scum didnt know

Koba crumbed Day 1 that they had already discussed the possibility of me and GL being Masons.

[Roden]

Idk i am not on like people with long reads and reasonings why they vote, just for sake of kill of blatant maf.

This is actually why I'm currently pushing Shadow.

[Roden]

I meant your posts regarding Dwlee.

They knew Koba was going to push them on Day 2 if one of the suspected Masons died. They also knew they'd likely lose a 1v1 with Koba, since Koba's good at throwing their weight around and pushing elims through + they were generally more town read. So if they know they're going down, I feel confident they're gonna tell their scum buddies to bus and get as much town cred as they can possibly get from their elim. Which is why I think it's telling that you tried to solve and incriminate Dwlee more than anyone else.

Your push on the Greeting slot is scummy because it's the perfect position for a deep wolf to take. You're on the wagon but shading Greeting for being "too confident" that Dwlee flips red. It sets you up to have a reason to push the slot and look solvey going into the next day.

[Roden]

Mathblade, why are you hard softing vig?

Koba's been ignoring me in neighborhood
VOTE: Koba

This came first

You have your OOO wrong Roden

Dwlee claimed Koba ignoring then Koba claimed mason open in the thread

This gives scum kill cover and allows reaction testing for the second masons as evidenced by lack of mason death scum didnt know

Koba crumbed Day 1 that they had already discussed the possibility of me and GL being Masons.

Ahh then it’s me who has things OOO.

I still find Koba sus but it’s not as airtight as I thought.

I think if Koba is scum and Shadow flips town, then they still lose in ELO. We have too many clears for them to survive a vote at that point. Plus I don't see why Koba doesn't NK me if they're scum.

[Roden]

Sorry I was gone for a bit, personal stuff came up and took all my attention.

Ok so, the reason I say that we have enough clears to just win this is because we have a Mason, a Rolecop, and a Vig. Further, and Shadow has actually already explained this, Enchant is spewed town by scum choosing to keep me alive. I was heavily tunneled on the slot since the second half of Day 1, and I'm conftown, so Enchant had multiple reasons to kill me if he was scum. And tbh, it wouldn't have looked bad for him at all to kill me since conftowns are expected to die. So I don't think it even makes sense as a gambit to try to fake spew himself as town by keeping me around.

Koba being alive as well only makes sense in two worlds. Either they're scum, or they were Roleblocked. And I really don't think they're scum, the Day 2 play is just flashy and unnecessary if it was a bus the whole time. Plus it was way too early, I think Koba knows that they need a reason to still be alive if they're scum, also I'm pretty sure they kill me instead of PR hunting. So I think they're just Roleblocked and that's why they don't have any results. If town, scum kind of does want to keep them around since it makes them look suspicious.

So, from my perspective, we have three cleared players: Koba, Enchant, and myself. If Enchant is not the Vig, then we have four cleared players and it's impossible for scum to win. I think it's better for the Vig to claim before ELO but that's just me.

I still want to vote Shadow, since she has essentially claimed VT by offering to get voted out to clear the 1v1 dispute between her and NM. I also think her flip would give us the most info, since there are associatives with other players there while NM has...literally nothing. Honestly I'm not really sure why they're competing wagons in the first place.

[Roden]

Also, Math vs Tictac is interesting and I don't think it's SvS. I've town read both slots for most of the game, so it could just be TvT, but I think I'm wrong about one of them unless the exact team is Shadow/NM.

[Roden]

I know I just said I want to elim Shadow, but I've been very tempted to just vote out NM. Two replacements for that slot, only for the third player to take over and just refuse to play. It's annoying and makes the slot nearly impossible to read. Thinking it over some more, I don't think NM should ever go to ELO.

[Roden]

Can we get some actual game-advancing content please

[Roden]

Idk if that counts as a prod dodge then

[Roden]

UNVOTE:

I changed my mind. I think I want to do NM or Math now.

I took a step back because I was starting to think the team could be Shadow/Math. Both of them are staking their lives on a 100% scum read and even offering to flip first, which is...kinda crazy. But Shadow has made some posts that don't feel aligned, and Math feels a bit pockety.

[Roden]

Shadow why are you so convinced NM is scum?

Math why are you so convinced Koba is scum?

[Roden]

Shadow why are you so convinced NM is scum?

Math why are you so convinced Koba is scum?

These are the main reasons. Let me know if you want any more in depth as I have explained most if not all of these in depth.

1) Initial skims Koba pinged me for tone and meta usage while claiming a guilty on Dwlee.
2) It is my belief that whoever “won” D2 was staged in such a way that the “winner” would be locktown
3) Setup spec. 3 masons (read 3 conf town) and no scum power is known balance for 13P as mentioned by more than just myself. Therefore 3 conf town (2 masons + vig + invest) versus no group scum is unbalanced. If you add any PRs to scum then you end up with Koba turning into a cop if town which is even worse.
4) Vote mechanisms/challenges. It’s no coincidence that when I told Koba to put up or shut up Tic Tac voted Shadow. They don’t want Koba flipped so instead of going for a no elim to take you out then Enchant they have to push for an elim.

I specifically challenged Koba and noted the dilemma to force scum to act.

1) I do agree here.

2) I think Dwlee was fucked no matter what. Their claims and arguments were too contradictory and they'd get caught if they weren't immediately NK'd. If they were SvS then the third scum had to push Dwlee, which still points to Shadow. Koba also directly antagonized me after claiming a guilty on Dwlee, which just seems counterintuitive if Dwlee needs to lose that 1v1.

3) Mech spec loses games, but even then I think what you are speculating on is wrong. Since it's a 12P game, town is already on the back foot by being down a townie, so giving them a bit more power in this set up seems fine. Rolecop isn't a conftown role anyway, and with the Vig being Novice it's possible they never get a chance to act.

4) So you think that the team is Koba/Tictac?

[Roden]

God damn it Roden, can someone concisely summarise this koba mech-clear/guilty please because I've seen both whilst skimming

It would help if you didn't disappear for five days after it looked like we were voting out Shadow.

[Roden]

Math, who's scum if Koba flips town?

[Roden]

If you think Tictac could be scum, then why haven't you voted them? Koba also thinks Tictac is scum.

[Roden]

I'll be here to hammer.

[Roden]

Yeah that's hammer. I was gonna vote NM anyway tbh.

[Roden]

Oh god, I'm so glad I stopped tunneling Shadow enough to unvote

Good Vig shot by Enchant, sorry for doubting the scum read on Koba so much

Thanks for modding Norwee and GG