Mini Normal 2277 - Frog Images (Game Over)
-
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12913
- Joined: September 1, 2012
-
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12913
- Joined: September 1, 2012
-
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12913
- Joined: September 1, 2012
I don't get the sense that you are trying to achieve anything that scum wants to achieve in your early posting. Specifically I get no indication that you earnestly want to convince me you're town, and I believe your actions are attempts at finding scum.In post 1024, Seanzie wrote:
Why? This is very rarely a reaction someone who doesn't know me has.In post 1023, Klick wrote:First four pages and my main takeaway is that Seanzie is obvtown-
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12913
- Joined: September 1, 2012
-
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12913
- Joined: September 1, 2012
-
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12913
- Joined: September 1, 2012
Cool your jetsIn post 1172, Eiralox wrote:And I mean Klick not unvoting or even speaking to me, while their vote was on me and i was at -2? I get that Klick hasnt been active and might be tied down irl but c'mon. how isn't that scummy?
I'll be back.
I play on my phone and I accidentally left it at the office yesterday
First thing I'm doing when the kids are in bed is having a good long read of this game-
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12913
- Joined: September 1, 2012
-
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12913
- Joined: September 1, 2012
-
-
Klick Flash Forward
-
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12913
- Joined: September 1, 2012
-
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12913
- Joined: September 1, 2012
I agree with this with hindsight of Galron being scumIn post 404, Gamma Emerald wrote:In post 352, redcardinal wrote:crescent looking real bad if galron flips scumIn post 353, redcardinal wrote:
not without your helpIn post 338, UltimateDetectiveKiriGiri wrote:Catching up now. I doubt Galron gets eliminated here D1 if they're scum.In post 354, redcardinal wrote:In post 144, redcardinal wrote:what are your thoughts on crescent haschel?
Scummy string of postsIn post 355, redcardinal wrote:kittytacky can I get some insight into your reads beyond galron?
Despite having a vote on the Galron wagon a lot of redcardinal's posting here reads as an attempt to quietly start something else up-
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12913
- Joined: September 1, 2012
-
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12913
- Joined: September 1, 2012
What a legendIn post 438, KittyTacky wrote:
Galron and you. Your role PM is as red as the bird you are named after.redcardinal wrote:whooooooo do you scumread I wanna know-
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12913
- Joined: September 1, 2012
I feel like this should be telling but I don't know what to make of this.In post 442, redcardinal wrote:no fucking way you actually believe I'm bussing galron-
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12913
- Joined: September 1, 2012
-
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12913
- Joined: September 1, 2012
-
-
Klick
-
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12913
- Joined: September 1, 2012
If T3 were scum I don't see why he'd purposefully disrupt Galron's claim/chances of escapeIn post 607, T3 wrote:I would be very, very hesitant to stop pressuring Galron here. Backup Neighbor at this point isn’t an AI claim, nor is it a role that could have a lot of effect on the game.-
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12913
- Joined: September 1, 2012
-
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12913
- Joined: September 1, 2012
-
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12913
- Joined: September 1, 2012
In post 705, Seanzie wrote:
Please don't swear at me, this is a game, and that sort of language is unsportsmanlike.In post 703, Gamma Emerald wrote:
Go ahead and try scumfuck, but Mini Normals lack multiball or Serial Killers, so any belief I’m scum has to reconcile the fact that I put Galron in the fucking ground.In post 700, Seanzie wrote:
Nah, I'll just bury you on your own play.In post 696, Gamma Emerald wrote:And I fucking DARE you, try and construct a reason I’m scum with Galron that doesn’t get ripped to shreds in less than 5 minutes.
I'm just going to keep burying you based on your play. If you want to try to make a case that you couldn't be teamed with Galron, you can try to do that, and I'll read it. However, that onus is on you.
This player is not trying to convince people he is town and I'm disappointed that Seanzie townreads are not ubiquitousIn post 704, Seanzie wrote:
OoOoOrrr.... you made up a read and got caught doing it and now are scrambing;)In post 701, Gamma Emerald wrote:
Maybe if you had the ability to parse nuance you’d realize the point about Mala does relate to UD’s Galron read. By saying Mala is scum for her Galron push, that necessitates Galron!town! If Mala wanted, she could very much say “through Galron’s scumflip I have proven that I am GOOD town, so UD calling me bad town is a bad look”.In post 698, Seanzie wrote:In post 686, Haschel Cedricson wrote:Crescent was wishywashy about the Galron wagon, but KiriGiri used her limited posts to try and stop the momentum on it.
In post 687, Gamma Emerald wrote:I feel like UD genuinely believed her read there
Meanwhile I think someone like Seanzie is more sus for voting Galron and then immediately unvoting following the claim
Gamma believed "UD genuinely believed her read there", while talking specifically about her read on Galron. What post does Gamma give that felt genuine? A post from UD about Mala. Nah. Their read on UD was faked, and they can't back it up.In post 695, Gamma Emerald wrote:
This is probably the post that sticks out the most for me. Calling Mala out like this is bound to backfire upon Galron’s scum flip. I think UD probably processes that and doesn’t make a post this brazen as scum.In post 362, UltimateDetectiveKiriGiri wrote:
She's worth flipping D1 for stuff like that. She's not a bad Town player.In post 360, Crescent wrote:Mala pretty blatantly sheeped Gamma and that's... Yeah I don't know Mala enough.
VOTE: Gamma Emerald
VOTE: Seanzie-
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12913
- Joined: September 1, 2012
I mean if this is what he's doing it's working really well on meIn post 711, Gamma Emerald wrote:
If you demonstrate legitimate solving I’ll legitimately engage this but as of now, all it seems like you’re doing is trying your hardest to smear obvtown.In post 691, Seanzie wrote:Kinda feels like GE's UDKG read was made up.
I don't think this is intentional-
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12913
- Joined: September 1, 2012
The problem is that an early-game distancing vote of that nature isn't actually effective on anyone and everyone is aware of thisIn post 712, Gamma Emerald wrote:
As I called out before: this was never explained and comes across as an early-game distancing voted given the short-lived nature of it and aforementioned lack of reasoning.In post 46, Seanzie wrote:Kinda surprised no one called out my "hmmm..." post as suspicious.
Anyways, VOTE: Galron. This is a non-RVS vote.
If Seanzie!scum wanted to bus there are other ways he'd be a lot more likely to go about it-
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12913
- Joined: September 1, 2012
This feels like a genuine thought process to meIn post 715, T3 wrote:
I doubt that scum UDKG would believe that they could derail the Galron wagon at that point with that little posts.In post 686, Haschel Cedricson wrote:Crescent was wishywashy about the Galron wagon, but KiriGiri used her limited posts to try and stop the momentum on it.
-
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12913
- Joined: September 1, 2012
I've not read the conclusion of this yetIn post 721, Gamma Emerald wrote:If you seriously consider my moderate swearing a personal attack then I’m scared for how you’ll handle other players. How old even are you?
Treat people with decent human respect please.-
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12913
- Joined: September 1, 2012
-
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12913
- Joined: September 1, 2012
There we go Haschel, we agree on something.In post 838, Haschel Cedricson wrote:The Gamma/Seanzie interactions are a slog and while I think both of them are town I also think that they should both feel bad for making us all read that.-
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12913
- Joined: September 1, 2012
-
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12913
- Joined: September 1, 2012
Alright I'm all caught up
Here's where I'm currently at on people individually:
TOWN
Klick
Seanzie
Malakittens
T3
???
Enchant
KittyTacky
schadd_
Haschel
Likely Scum
redcardinal
I feel slightly worse about Haschel than I do about the other null players. However, the theory currently running around in my head is redcardinal/schadd_:
redcardinal's push on my slot came as the Eiralox wagon picked up steam, and the way rc pushed the vote on me felt motivated. I feel like pushing me at the time rc did is pretty poor optically, unless she's trying to achieve something. And the something I think she was trying to achieve was pulling potential pressure away from a schadd_ wagon.In post 1201, Ausuka wrote:
With 11 players alive, it takes 6 to decide an elimination. Deadline is in (expired on 2022-08-08 12:11:33).
I can expand more on this later but work now.
VOTE: redcardinal-
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12913
- Joined: September 1, 2012
The problem here is that with the way I solve, I have a lot of trouble giving thoughts on people that aren't genuinely what I believe. I find many of the things commonly used to townread and scumread people just... wrong, or not an accurate way of solving. I could try to intentionally towncase redcardinal, but it wouldn't be genuine.In post 1405, Seanzie wrote:So from what I can tell, you have me pretty much as a town!lock. Being in this coveted position, I'd like to ask you to do me a favor. Would you be willing to attempt to towncase RedCardinal? You've been scumreading them pretty much without wavering since you got into the thread, and I think they're town. In order to help me read you, I'd like to see if you can consider the flipside of Red's posts.
I'm not asking you to necessarily change your read on Red, but just like... go through their ISO and try to see if you can give any evidence for town!Red here (even if you think the evidence for scum!Red outweighs the evidence for town!Red).
What will probably be more useful is if I read redcardinal's ISO and see if that changes anything?-
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12913
- Joined: September 1, 2012
The problem is that I see basically no issue with the content redcardinal has posted coming from a scum PoV
like you could argue that the sheer amount of content she has posted is more likely to come from town than scum, but that's not solid and I don't see redcardinal as the type to post less as scum anyway
I have no reason to townread the slot at all which is usually where scum winds up being in my experience.-
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12913
- Joined: September 1, 2012
These are the only two scum games that I have that are remotely recent:In post 1443, Seanzie wrote:
Hmm... okay. Could you possibly quote a recent scum game or two of yours? Feel free to throw a town game in as well if you want.In post 1441, Klick wrote:
The problem here is that with the way I solve, I have a lot of trouble giving thoughts on people that aren't genuinely what I believe. I find many of the things commonly used to townread and scumread people just... wrong, or not an accurate way of solving. I could try to intentionally towncase redcardinal, but it wouldn't be genuine.In post 1405, Seanzie wrote:So from what I can tell, you have me pretty much as a town!lock. Being in this coveted position, I'd like to ask you to do me a favor. Would you be willing to attempt to towncase RedCardinal? You've been scumreading them pretty much without wavering since you got into the thread, and I think they're town. In order to help me read you, I'd like to see if you can consider the flipside of Red's posts.
I'm not asking you to necessarily change your read on Red, but just like... go through their ISO and try to see if you can give any evidence for town!Red here (even if you think the evidence for scum!Red outweighs the evidence for town!Red).
What will probably be more useful is if I read redcardinal's ISO and see if that changes anything?
viewtopic.php?f=52&t=88034
viewtopic.php?f=52&t=87412
I'm struggling to find a decent town game to link to from around that time because I, uh, replaced out of a number of them. I have a few good town games much more recently but it won't make for as good a comparison-
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12913
- Joined: September 1, 2012
What about it specifically made sense to you?In post 1450, KittyTacky wrote:Re: schadd_
Yeah I thought RC was pretty scummy during the night but now I don't think so. The Klick case made sense to me.
I understand people feeling vaguely poor about this slot due to relative inactivity/optics, but redcardinal didn't really provide any evidence for my slot being scum outside of a personal theory of the scumteam-
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12913
- Joined: September 1, 2012
This feels like a really odd justification for not including Enchant in your set of people who actively or passively wanted the Eiralox elimination. Enchant did hammer EiraloxIn post 1466, Haschel Cedricson wrote:EIRALOX: Sees as town, tries to shift wagon to me albeit half-heartedly. Finally hammers after peer pressure from other players.-
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12913
- Joined: September 1, 2012
-
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12913
- Joined: September 1, 2012
-
-
Klick
-
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12913
- Joined: September 1, 2012
This is one VC but it's the fifth one in a row with 5+ votes on Galron and no other wagon with 3+ votes.In post 500, Ausuka wrote:
With 13 players alive, it takes 7 to decide an elimination. Deadline is in (expired on 2022-08-06 01:33:48).
redcardinal unvotes and lightly pressures MalaIn post 509, redcardinal wrote:I want mala's fresh scumreads before you die
redcardinal sees a chance to kill the Galron wagon momentum, votes Mala (a reasonable choice to go for a miselim probably? No one but Gamma seems to townread Mala at this point)
This then goes nowhere
and redcardinal makes sure to get her vote back on Galron before the wagon gets hammered.In post 650, Ausuka wrote:
With 13 players alive, it takes 7 to decide an elimination. Deadline is in (expired on 2022-08-06 01:33:48).
-
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12913
- Joined: September 1, 2012
-
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12913
- Joined: September 1, 2012
-
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12913
- Joined: September 1, 2012
-
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12913
- Joined: September 1, 2012
I didn't really have anything to say about itIn post 1483, Haschel Cedricson wrote:Speaking of which, you completely ignored the last thing I said about KT.
I don't agree that schadd_ is a particularly weird choice of roleblock target-
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12913
- Joined: September 1, 2012
-
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12913
- Joined: September 1, 2012
First of all, I think redcardinal is a particularly unlikely player for KT!town to decide to roleblock specifically because KT had expressed suspicion of redcardinal; if KT's goal was to actually block a kill with a roleblock, he'd need to target someone who did not particularly expect to be roleblocked. Schadd is a fine guess for 'scum who would submit a kill' and probably one of my top choices if I were in KT's shoes.
And thinking about it I think redcardinal/schadd is also unlikely because schadd probably kills on that team as well-
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12913
- Joined: September 1, 2012
I suppose it's a 'minimise risk of getting targeted' vs 'minimise damage if you are targeted' thing. I feel like scum are more likely to try to do the former in this situation, especially with one scum already downIn post 1489, Seanzie wrote:
I don't really agree with this read. Schadd was 1. more active/more on people's minds, and 2. better placed, than any of those other slots, so I think all else held equal Schadd would be less likely to carry the kill in fear of things like watcher (don't want your deepwolf going down because they submitted a kill) and because PRs tend to target their strongest scumread, which often is someone who is active enough to actually be scrutinized.In post 1488, Klick wrote:Like if schadd is on a scumteam he's not really unlikely to be the one submitting a kill
Actually I suppose schadd isn't that likely to be scum with someone like Enchant/Mala/myself due to that block? Because he'd likely submit a kill in those combinations
PEdit: can in a bit, putting kids to bed
However, I do give the conclusion weight for a different reason; Schadd being vanilla AND not submitting the kill makes them on the lower-probability side of possible scum, unless of course both remaining scum are vanilla, but I kind of doubt that's the case.-
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12913
- Joined: September 1, 2012
I have my own thoughts on this, but I'd like to hear KT give a response to this post firstIn post 1492, Haschel Cedricson wrote:Preview Edit: If you are a town roleblocker, then it's reasonable to assume that the scum have power roles of their own. In that case you block your top scumread because either 1) You stop the kill, which hurts scum, or 2) Somebody else submitted the kill but it's likely you stopped the mafia from using one of their other powers, which hurts scum.-
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12913
- Joined: September 1, 2012
I prefer the term 'passive'In post 1497, schadd_ wrote:klick hasn't ever made me feel particularly like they're town. they don't have much of a sense that they're reacting to/processing how the game is going, and especially for d2 that seems a little bit more true than the replacement gives it reason to be. like when you hop in when there's stuff going on, you have the choice of keeping up with the present and getting the ball rolling quickly or just rereading the old stuff. maybe thats a personal choice, i don't know. it seemed like they were playing very uninteractively.
This is something I'm very conscious of and it's something that has gotten more and more true about my play over time; I've found that most active probing and questioning doesn't really wind up influencing my reads, and I get the most accurate reads when I look at everything and filter it all into stuff that I believe is actually alignment-indicative vs not. It started as a way of coping with games that moved way too fast for me but I've now just found that it works better for me as a style.-
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12913
- Joined: September 1, 2012
Up to the point where I'd caught up before they were hammered, I thought they were fairly likely to be scum. They projected confidence in a way that read to me as fake - and I still think that's true. I just thought 'because they're scum' was a likely explanation for that, when it turns out that's not what it was.-
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12913
- Joined: September 1, 2012
-
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12913
- Joined: September 1, 2012
-
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12913
- Joined: September 1, 2012
Right, but what about it made sense?In post 1512, KittyTacky wrote:
The way it was made pinged town to me.In post 1471, Klick wrote:
What about it specifically made sense to you?In post 1450, KittyTacky wrote:Re: schadd_
Yeah I thought RC was pretty scummy during the night but now I don't think so. The Klick case made sense to me.
I understand people feeling vaguely poor about this slot due to relative inactivity/optics, but redcardinal didn't really provide any evidence for my slot being scum outside of a personal theory of the scumteam
Why are you on my wagon?-
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12913
- Joined: September 1, 2012
Go onIn post 1520, T3 wrote:I do get what you’re saying about redcardinal’s interactions with Galron, but redcardinal has many other reasons to be townread.-
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12913
- Joined: September 1, 2012
-
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12913
- Joined: September 1, 2012
-
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12913
- Joined: September 1, 2012
-
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12913
- Joined: September 1, 2012
-
-
Klick Flash Forward
-
-
Klick
-
-
Klick
-
-
Klick Flash Forward
-
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12913
- Joined: September 1, 2012
-
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12913
- Joined: September 1, 2012
-
-
-
-