Mini Normal 2280 | Music Hits of 2015-2019 | GAME OVER

[Crescent]

Oh it's finally up.

I'm a kitty. Meow.

[Crescent]

Oh it's finally up.

I'm a kitty. Meow.

And where is your vote?

I don't do RVS votes. On a day that's 7 days long, I likely won't place a vote at all for at least the first 4 of them.

About the only exception I tend to make is for pressure votes on people who have like 2 useless posts in 2-3 days because making them talk is important.

[Crescent]

Oh and since nothing's happening I have a question for you.

Do you like cats?

[Crescent]

Oh it's finally up.

I'm a kitty. Meow.

And where is your vote?

I don't do RVS votes. On a day that's 7 days long, I likely

won't place a vote at all for at least the first 4 of them.

About the only exception I tend to make is for pressure votes on people who have like 2 useless posts in 2-3 days because making them talk is important.

Mind if I hold yeah to that?

Sure. This is meta that won't change regardless of my alignment.

My first vote on a not-inactive in 2272 was with roughly 2 days left in the day. In 2273, roughly 3 days left in the day. In 2276, I obliterated a scum who replaced in for two solid days before I actually voted him with a couple of days left. In 2278, I didn't even place a vote on the first day, and promptly got shot that night anyway.

In 240, I voted quite "early" by my standards, but it's because Meg was -2 for like 40 hours and wouldn't do anything, so I put my vote down as a "start talking or just die" vote. I woulda removed it had he actually bothered to do anything, but Malcolm over there accidentally hammered him anyway.

[Crescent]

'Ello 'ello 'ello.....

God this game took ages to start, i was observing the Queue for ages waiting.

i think i recognise most of the people's names. i would suggest (from past experience) that if there is a cop type role in the game that Crescent gets checked night 1, they cannot be allowed as scum to get too far into the game.

Why? Are they deepwolf type player?

I'll check in during the day, as I can. Just expect more from me at night!

Vampire confirmed, gotcha
Anyways, here we have gone from the 2nd to a 3rd

If I remember right, vampire isn’t a normal role?

that pink is an awful colour to read.

i've only played with them as town, and so far they have been a competent player (i was scared of them when mafia) but their posting style tends to dominate the game if left unchecked, they post long posts that are usually well formed and if they are scum and they are not checked by night action they will be very hard to vote off late in the game. i cannot think of a time they were ever noticeably under pressure of being voted out, so if there is someone around who can check their alignment it would be one of the first places to go - certainly what i would be doing

Depends on the game and my mood entering the game. I was very much in the background for much of 2278. I didn't have it for that game and I knew I didn't have it.

It does nag at me a little that this is his first contribution. I've been shot by night 2 in my last three minis, and scum you would definitely prioritize shooting me. Scanning me in general can be a good thing since I don't particularly have "tells", but making a point of it this early doesn't really vibe right with me.

[Crescent]

'Ello 'ello 'ello.....

God this game took ages to start, i was observing the Queue for ages waiting.

i think i recognise most of the people's names. i would suggest (from past experience) that if there is a cop type role in the game that Crescent gets checked night 1, they cannot be allowed as scum to get too far into the game.

Why? Are they deepwolf type player?

I'll check in during the day, as I can. Just expect more from me at night!

Vampire confirmed, gotcha
Anyways, here we have gone from the 2nd to a 3rd

If I remember right, vampire isn’t a normal role?

that pink is an awful colour to read.

i've only played with them as town, and so far they have been a competent player (i was scared of them when mafia) but their posting style tends to dominate the game if left unchecked, they post long posts that are usually well formed and if they are scum and they are not checked by night action they will be very hard to vote off late in the game. i cannot think of a time they were ever noticeably under pressure of being voted out, so if there is someone around who can check their alignment it would be one of the first places to go - certainly what i would be doing

Depends on the game and my mood entering the game. I was very much in the background for much of 2278. I didn't have it for that game and I knew I didn't have it.

It does nag at me a little that this is his first contribution. I've been shot by night 2 in my last three minis, and scum you would definitely prioritize shooting me. Scanning me in general can be a good thing since I don't particularly have "tells", but making a point of it this early doesn't really vibe right with me.

I actually think Ger's post is kinda townie, especially given your response which could have potentially been anticipated in advance. I think Ger's just pointing out you're a capable and skilled player who'd be good at blending in as scum. From the one game we've played together I'd argue that's an accurate assessment. But if Ger is scum then I don't think there's any reason for them to want to attract your ire or any suspicion at all.

Ger got a TR from me in 240 that lasted for 6 days because he did two things on day 1 that drew attention to himself that I didn't think he'd do as scum. If this were pre-240, I probably would still TR him for it. Instead, it just mildly nags at me.

[Crescent]

I used to do gutty townreads and scumreads page 1 and they were almost always wrong

Alright then I’ll townread you and we will see if I’m wrong.

Thunderdome stuff ere.

But

But we have to go

beyond

Thunderdome

PLUS ULTRA!

[Crescent]

Nightmare scenario would be geraintm/crscent/malcom

Oh if only.

I'd be super pleased with how this game's first two pages look in that scenario. For some reason, regardless of my alignment, I almost never get scanned. The same holds true on my homesite. I was like, super godfather in my last scum game there, and almost everyone in the final 5 except for me had some sort of scan on them.

[Crescent]

What do you mean “scan”?

We had 6 people left going into night 4. One was pretty much hard confirmed town (we shot this guy), one was a vanilla with a fake power role who had a flavor scan on them. Another was a vanilla who was seen being targeted by "someone" night 1, when no town targeted him night 1. However, when the independent flipped an investigative power on day 4, it took away this player's town confirmation, as the indy could've targeted him without killing him.

[Crescent]

Wait no that last guy wasn't vanilla, he was the guy I read as cop on day 1 and had my RB (who lived to end game with me) roleblock every night of the game, who then claimed it on day 5 and immediately got voted off for claiming another scanner.

[Crescent]

Still not sure what the word scan means in this context

Uh
'
One was essentially a confirmed town flavor cop that we shot night 4

One was "scanned" on night 3 by said town flavor cop that we shot that night 4

One was "scanned" by a motion detector who had already died all the way back on night 1.

It's.. Kinda straightforward.

[Crescent]

I do have a question of my own though.

Why was that important enough to you to ask it twice?

[Crescent]

I have three (3) townreads. There is a pencil in my hand. I'm going to write their names on a little yellow post-it and stick it on my wall right there. Tomorrow morning I will post them, and we can all compare! Join me if you'd like

Waiting for the town reads reveal.

I dropped my early Crescent townread now that I'm getting more of a feel for their play so we'll just have to scritch that part out I'm excited to see yours too.

Crescent I don't see a town-minded reason to nip at someone like you did in post 62.

There kinda wasn't on the surface. I'm a pot stirrer. It wasn't directed at alignment - it was directed at the player. I specifically wanted to see how the player would respond so I could get a better feel of them. The thing about such questions if they often don't just get a response from the player - they also draw out other reactions.

I'd like to ask where this apparent townread on me came from in the first place, as I wouldn't say I did anything to earn one so early.

[Crescent]

Early TRs for no real reason are something scum love to give out, but there are people who as town are more inclined to "townhunt" early rather than scumhunt because it helps them build a picture. "What if you town read a scum" is a copout argument and can be figured out later. I had 8 townreads in 240 at the end of day 1 (which is a lot for me in a 17 player game), and 7 of then were correct.

I find the reason that was given on me to be acceptable. Post 8 isn't the kind of post you'd expect a newbie scum to make. He had no reason to assume at the time that I have an extensive history with the game.

[Crescent]

NJAC has asked a lot of questions that feel like they're not going anywhere. I don't like #97 with him making an emphasis on having already voted when the vote was irrelevant, but I do like #111 questioning Drapion, as Drapion's behavior towards him has been.. Odd. It's kind of like he jumped on him without actually thinking it through, and turned waffley shortly after.

If I had to make a gut read here, Drapion is town who realizes most of his argument to vote njac with to begin with was flawed, but also doesn't want to let him go because njac hasn't done anything that feels town to him. In a Drapion scum/Njac town situation, a typical scum player is more likely to just unvote or at least drop the pressure when it's this early. Instead, he's essentially flailed the last 20 or so posts, adding essentially nothing to his argument in the process.

[Crescent]

Why is my vote irrelevant? Just because you said you don't vote early, it doesn't mean other players cannot make something useful with our votes.

If the vote actually mattered you'd be explaining why it mattered in this post.

[Crescent]

Why is my vote irrelevant? Just because you said you don't vote early, it doesn't mean other players cannot make something useful with our votes.

If the vote actually mattered you'd be explaining why it mattered in this post.

It matters. I'm waiting for Kitty to show up.

I mean it was the 6th post in the game but as of right now it's a fair reason.... Because frankly I'm doing the same. One of his three posts pinged me a bit and I want to see what he does next.

..Oh and by the way I mentioned 2278 a couple of times but it was actually 2277 in those references. I wasn't even in 2278!

[Crescent]

The thing with post 8 made sense to me because newer players are rarely that confrontational early and he assumed I was one. I see it as NAI. Anyways, KT felt kinda similar to 2277 in many regards, except for the fact that they put an RVS vote down this time, and I kinda wanted to see if that difference would amount to anything. Gave me a vibe of just wanting to be on the board. It's null overall.

Anyways, while I was asleep, Drapion started doing virtually the same thing I caught scum Galron on in a previous game. I kinda of want to see if it continues before I point out exactly what it is, though if Galron himself will probably pick up on what this argument is.

[Crescent]

I find it a bit curious that Drapion totally ignored my last post. Was practically a golden ticket to nudge at me and he didn't take it. Going to parse what I make of it.

Anyways I'm at work now.

[Crescent]

Alright, who has yet to wolf read the almighty Townie Drapion?

Let me sit nice in the PoE as I bring down wolves into it and get them out.

Don't like these posts. Feels like it's just an attempt to shade the scumreads being made without actually really refuting them at all, instead the goal appears to be an attempt to link together players who suspect Drapion as possible scum.

I think mainly everyone wolf reads me?
Just trying to say I don’t really care about it tbh.

I must admit, I was thinking you might be a wolf.

@ Crescent In Normal 240, post 150, you said Geraintm couldn't last the whole game as scum. He made it though. Any advice gleaned from that game on how to read him would be great.

I had him almost dead to rights on day 7 because he has very similar behavior when playing scum from behind across his games and I was bombarding him.

The problem was that FK was so insanely anti-town in everything he did that he replaced a virtual townlock of mine and still managed to effectively claim.scum to me. No excuse for any town to play as horrendously as FK did. It culminated in FK immediately attacking me (his townlock) after Enchant said it might be FK.

Gera didn't do a damn thing the last 4 days of that game. Pretty similar to the end of 2273. He doesn't last until the end.

Back to work

[Crescent]

Oh. Drapion did it again. I also noticed when writing it out to myself he had already done it once, and I overlooked it at the time because it looked more like a town flail based on NJAC's response to him. It wasn't a "pattern" yet.

...Also he got my gender wrong and apparently ignored my last two posts.

Posts 99, 100, 101, 103, 107, 109, 110, 112, 113 (his pursuit of NJAC)

Posts 168, 170, 171, 172 (later responses to pressure down the line)

Posts 184, 186, 187, 188, 190, 191, 192, 193, 196, 198, 199, 202, 203, 205, 208

Posts 243, 244, 245, 246, 247, 248, and 249

What most of these posts have in common is they are very short, often successive posts by Drapion that provide little to no meaningful content to the game. His recent string of posts had exactly one useful thing in them - A stated TR of me, but the reasoning for it doesn't make sense given my last two posts. I had said he pinged something from me that I had used to catch scum recently, but I wouldn't say what, because I wanted to see if it would continue. I also said I was curious that he did not say anything about this. Now he's saying I'm town because I "agreed" with him on a single point that would have been easy as hell for scum to fake in my position? All I've said is I agreed that NJAC was asking too many "going nowhere' questions early for my liking, but I also said I liked how he shot back at Drapion.

I call this kind of posting to be "burst spew", and Galron was guilty of repeatedly doing this as scum in 2277 after being put under early pressure. Since getting pressure, Drapion has, with very few exceptions, only been posting in bursts like this that ultimately say very little.

This is something that is more likely to come from scum in order to appear more active and contributory rather than something that naturally happens from town. He is, by far, the most active poster in the game by volume. By content, however, he's barely provided anything outside of his tunnel on NJAC, which he's already admitted is flawed, and is now being done in a roundabout way by trying to already pair NJAC as scum with other players.

I normally wait a bit longer for more information before I bring up a case on someone, but I kinda feel like it's been actively drowning out discussion. Both MT and Shidaji nudged at Drapion just now, and he made 7 consecutive posts that effectively said nothing in response. Like, Shidaji asked him an actual question.. And he totally blew it off with a deluge of crap.

Alright, who has yet to wolf read the almighty Townie Drapion?

Let me sit nice in the PoE as I bring down wolves into it and get them out.

Don't like these posts. Feels like it's just an attempt to shade the scumreads being made without actually really refuting them at all, instead the goal appears to be an attempt to link together players who suspect Drapion as possible scum.

I think mainly everyone wolf reads me?
Just trying to say I don’t really care about it tbh.

Also this post is

bad

. It's completely out of touch with the game (Where most people have still been more on the "neutral" spectrum with him), and completely contradicts the way he's been acting. He looks like he very much cares that he's under pressure, but he was just trying to "play it cool" in 230.

[Crescent]

VOTE: Kitty

How

is

a vote in 6 a relevant vote? I'll wait for Kitty's response to ask my next question.

I want him to feel some pressure. It's like an implicit message to him that I'm going to watch his play closely.

What's your next question?

From their current posts what is your thoughts?

I'm still waiting to see more from him to form a proper read.

I feel like Kitty in 2277... At least was a little more proactive than this. There hasn't been a single post worth anything from them all game.

A big block of null that needs to do something.

[Crescent]

Lol
Don’t read anyone who votes against me for anything, I'm an obvious town ML here my flip doesn’t mean Jack shit.

But here’s what you do need to look at, see if anyone 180’s on me during my last moments or says “actually he could be town”
Wolves tend to do that more often then town cause wolves don’t want to look bad after a town flip.

You have

two

votes on you, and the majority of the game has not actually called you scum at any point.

Again, this is a completely out of touch stance to take. It feels like grandstanding. There's no attempt to solve here.

[Crescent]

Lol
Don’t read anyone who votes against me for anything, I'm an obvious town ML here my flip doesn’t mean Jack shit.

But here’s what you do need to look at, see if anyone 180’s on me during my last moments or says “actually he could be town”
Wolves tend to do that more often then town cause wolves don’t want to look bad after a town flip.

You have

two

votes on you, and the majority of the game has not actually called you scum at any point.

Again, this is a completely out of touch stance to take. It feels like grandstanding. There's no attempt to solve here.

That’s false, everyone has wolf read me.

We don't seem to be reading the same game.

[Crescent]

Your the only person I can confidently say is town.

Yeah and why exactly?

Because the reason you just gave in 248 was awful.

[Crescent]

Oh and side note with the point about Gera, I don't think he

can

really change his very lategame meta in that regard. He's not lurking by design, he's lurking because the game has tired him out and he's lost the capacity to really fake any arguments.

[Crescent]

Drapion is giving a lot of one liners that seem easy to manufacture and I don't see them going anywhere so slight scum lean right now.

I don’t know if it’s all that great. What if you are town reading scum, don’t you risk spreading that misconception to others? What if scum uses it as a way to plant town seeds on their members?

You are not a newbie, as far as I can tell, why do you keep asking questions about typical mechanics of the game?

You choose to enter the thread saying this?
Have anything else to add?
Rather then trying to pick on Porkens like that and not even in a good way.

Slight scumlean on Drapion for this and the posts which followed afterwards. This is a bit of a reach. I think it's perfectly valid when trying to suss out other players to ask/question why someone who's been on the site for a long time didn't appear to be clear about game mechanics as such. Porkens' reply was fine but it's useful info for us to have.

Vote: Drapion

For those who struggle to read like I do ^^

That's "everyone?"

[Crescent]

@Professor: do you plan to answer the questions addressed to you?

121, 256 and 257 were addressed to you.

237 as well.

[Crescent]

The only person I trust this game is Cres cause he had the same view I did.

Technically you could argue it isn’t super strong since a wolf pocketed me from it before but I do think the mindset is Rand!Town and enough for me to trust you.

There was indeed one post that felt like an attempt to pocket.

...248.

[Crescent]

claiming that TR for such a loose reasoning is pretty much the definition of pocketing.

[Crescent]

claiming that TR for such a loose reasoning is pretty much the definition of pocketing.

[Crescent]

Do you think Galron clears Wayward upon wolf flip?
That would be handy.
Thoughts?

Galron's vote on him was an RVS vote, and he has never at any point mentioned him since. The vote there doesn't really say anything.

But... Actually reading Galron's ISO, there.. Isn't much there at all. I'm not sure how much if anything in this ISO actually qualifies as game-progressing content.

[Crescent]

Lol

Don’t read anyone who votes against me for anything

, I'm an obvious town ML here my flip doesn’t mean Jack shit.

But here’s what you do need to look at, see if anyone 180’s on me during my last moments or says “actually he could be town”
Wolves tend to do that more often then town cause wolves don’t want to look bad after a town flip.

It's all you've been doing. Of course you've said Crescent is your only Town read, but you seem to only suss those who've sussed you. I don't like the way you keep saying your (misslim) makes sense, but then only (hunting) from within it.

Ok buddy first off all my town read does wolf read me.
Second thing is yes multiple people offsite say I have the tendency to happen to wolf read players that push me but I have my reasons.

Actually all I've said is your behavior is more likely to come from scum and I pressed you on it to see what you'd do.

I've never once actually called you scum.

[Crescent]

Their play indicates scum to me but it's not a subtle playstyle which gives me pause. I'd currently pick PD for elimination if it was final day but don't believe we should rush this through either.

Yep. This is traditionally scummy behavior but I'm not convinced the player doing it is scum... There seems to be something of a pattern to the madness that I feel like I haven't properly deciphered yet. Personally I know I'm prone to doing things that are traditionally scummy (like blatantly omgusing) just because I don't care.

I'm hoping the thing drawing so much of my focus from this game is dealt with soon, at least.

[Crescent]

Oh and I gave him a pass for all the early nonsense, but Porkens has two posts since then. One says nothing and one is a blank vote.

Hi Porkens I want you to give something that actually resembles a genuine read.

[Crescent]

Ok 2 1/2 days left and that war is finally over so my brain can start working ago. Votals don't feel like they've changed much. I noticed Shidaji moved onto Galron.

I then noticed Galron has... Exactly one post in the last 2 1/2 days, and it's questionable.

Oh yeah I'm here just haven't felt like playing.

UNVOTE: wayward was rvs. Probably voting Drap or maybe

Malcom

today.

Yeah but.. Why? Malcolm almost never appears in your ISO before this post, except for in #47 and #64, which aren't in any way calling him scum. It kind feels like you've played this game in "neutral".

There actually is one thing that kinda does stick out to me a bit concerning Malcolm in comparison to the other game I played with him, but I'm not going to feed you an answer soo~

Anyways I'll glance over the rest of the posts now.

[Crescent]

On a side note I already scumlean Gera. Based on my experiences with him, a specific thread of his behavior in this game is more likely to come from his scumgame. I'll go into details if people want me to.

[Crescent]

I'm also interested in who is Crescent going to vote, btw.

I've basically not existed in this game for most of it... Yep I'm not ready yet.

There are two people I don't trust who are both shading Malcolm though, and I do find that interesting. My next task is to nudge them both for responses.

Crescent, Geraintm, Malcolm, and Salsabil are my Town leans atm.

Lottsa Pedits Well, I'm here to find scum, so I hope to be "in the thick of it" (scum hunting) soon!

Another Pedit, nothing to say.

Question though: Why did you townlean me in the first place? I've been pretty close to inactive.

[Crescent]

The tinfoil hat theory for me at the moment is he actually is town backup doctor but the doctor he's backing up is scum. Pretty sure MNs allow for backups to be different alignments than the role they're backing up?

Last time I metaed something like that it was horribly wrong though, so...

[Crescent]

Also I just remembered the last time I saw someone voice suspicion of scum Gera day 1 they immediately got shot sooo....

Based on my experience with Gera, the way he has been loosely pushing on Malcolm for most of the day as the only vote on him feels like something that is more likely to come from his scum game. He's also voted the guy twice without even unvoting between those votes, which puts on full display just how long he's truly been at it. Heals hasn't contributed much outside of it.

This goes double if Galron or Wayward is scum, and it goes triple if Malcolm is town on top of that.

Scum Gera's favorite place is be is on a splinter vote that shows no signs of going anywhere, where he can nestle himself away and avoid the trains that actually matter. I called him out on this in 240 when I was zoning in on him, too.

[Crescent]

Ok 2 1/2 days left and that war is finally over so my brain can start working ago. Votals don't feel like they've changed much. I noticed Shidaji moved onto Galron.

I then noticed Galron has... Exactly one post in the last 2 1/2 days, and it's questionable.

Oh yeah I'm here just haven't felt like playing.

UNVOTE: wayward was rvs. Probably voting Drap or maybe

Malcom

today.

Yeah but.. Why? Malcolm almost never appears in your ISO before this post, except for in #47 and #64, which aren't in any way calling him scum. It kind feels like you've played this game in "neutral".

There actually is

one thing that kinda does stick out to me a bit concerning Malcolm in comparison to the other game I played with him

, but I'm not going to feed you an answer soo~

Anyways I'll glance over the rest of the posts now.

Is this anything I can help with? I believe this is only our second game together but I'd argue my last game might be about the weakest I played on the site in terms of effort - I just couldn't find my way into the game at all and it showed based on my play. Not that I'm usually some 4D chessmaster who puts in brilliant contributions but I'd say I'm more focused and engaged this game and have more focused reads.

Interesting.

'Cause it's exactly that: Your level of investment this game is markedly higher than that game. It's been sticking out to me for a little while now.

[Crescent]

Also I just remembered the last time I saw someone voice suspicion of scum Gera day 1 they immediately got shot sooo....

Based on my experience with Gera, the way he has been loosely pushing on Malcolm for most of the day as the only vote on him feels like something that is more likely to come from his scum game. He's also voted the guy twice without even unvoting between those votes, which puts on full display just how long he's truly been at it. Heals hasn't contributed much outside of it.

This goes double if Galron or Wayward is scum, and it goes triple if Malcolm is town on top of that.

Scum Gera's favorite place is be is on a splinter vote that shows no signs of going anywhere, where he can nestle himself away and avoid the trains that actually matter. I called him out on this in 240 when I was zoning in on him, too.

have you played a game with me when i am not scum? what are my early game voting patterns like in those? i'd hazard they are awfully similar.
it is mid game where my scum votes come to the fore, not now

2272 was my first game with you, and you were town. You did not do this in 2272.

In 2273 and 240 you had very long stretches of time with your vote on a meaningless splinter. You did this twice on day one in 2273 - Once with Clidd, and once with me. In 2272, outside of the RVS vote on Scorpious that clearly meant nothing, you voted for Meuh much later in theday - For a significantly better reason than the reasons I've been seeing your day one votes as scum.

I hate Meuh's vote kn Dwlee. I don't see any build up to it, and then they use other people wanting to pressure them to justify their vote. It won't go anywhere, that isn't a wagon that is likely to happen anytime soon. It feels like a "I wanna be seen doing something"

It comes right after a wagon is forming is another player....so large naughty point for you

VOTE: meuh

This is exactly what

you

tend to do as scum in Meuh's position, and you caught it rather quickly on her.


In further contrast, your scumgame does tend to change based on your position in the game. You're more likely to play it safe on splinters when you feel behind because you don't want the exposure (I'd wager it's 2/9 or 2+1/8 if Gera is scum - Not a solid 3), which is why your game in 2190 is such an outlier - Scum dominated that game from start to finish.

[Crescent]

Question though: Why did you townlean me in the first place? I've been pretty close to inactive.

Your posts were well written and easy to understand. You didn't sound devious, and compared to others' posts, you seemed an angel. Not everyone can be scum.

I'm guessing your other scum read is Geraint?

Experience has taught me that when Gera tunnels all day on a splinter for a weak reason it's more likely to come from his scumgame so yes.


Oh and side note:

VOTE: wayward son

Gut

I really think wayward is scum. Plz ISO and confirm.

I really think wayward is scum. Plz ISO and confirm.

Shouldn’t

you

do that? It's your read on them after-all.

Their ISO is my case. Don’t be lazy.

I have another scumread I’ll keep in my pocket for now.

I don't town read WS, but what changed between "gut" and "I think he's scum"? You have no meaningful posts in this span, and you have nothing resembling game-solving content for most of the day. This is the equivalent to saying "This guy is obv scum can you guys make a scumcase on him for me", while calling someone else lazy for asking him to make his own argument. It's a staggeringly anti-town mentality.

[Crescent]

It was their posts in that span that clinched the read.

Ok. Which ones?

[Crescent]

See, that wasn't so hard... But it's also not where I find the most questionable content. The entire goal was to actually get you to say something~

I have a tinfoil theory. It's Professor and Porkens. (Assuming scum) Professor took a lot of time to defend Porkens. Porkens' "gut" vote on me is an attempt to start a different wagon.

It may be thin, but I see it.
VOTE: ProfessorDrapion

Porkens is probably town based on their posting so far. I can see scum occasionally opting for an "I'm clueless" type approach but they'd be overdoing it if scum here.

If

Professor

flips scum then it'll clear

Porkens

imo, but if

Professor

is town and

Porkens

will continue to play like this then I think it’s not impossible to play dumb townie as scum for them.

Sounds like someone’s setting up back to back Ml’s.

@ Salsabil I was reading Professor's ISO when I came across this post. Why do you think a red flip on the Professor would clear Porkens?

@ Malcolm I made that post after doing a dual ISO of Professor and Porkens. What makes you think Porkens can be Town? I'm not seeing anything.

Question to everyone, I see Porkens talking about how bad he is and throwing
shade at the idea of Town blocs. His only game relevant post is his "gut" vote. Is it only Professor's defense of him that makes him Town?

This is what sticks out to me.. He's calls them scum together, and tacks on a vote onto Drapion's wagon. He then directly shades Porkens in an awkward manner, while never actually giving an argument to call him scum, just unhelpful (which is something I also just called him, but unhelpful doesn't always mean scum), and rather blatantly OMGUSing. The way he phrases the question in #329 implies a [i[strong[/i] scum read because it seems to dissociate Porkens being town as even being possible.

Then 334 comes, and... This question doesn't seem to flow properly at all. He's calling Drapion and Porkens scum together, and he's already more or less doubled down on Porkens. The question is phrased as to have no good answer. Why would Drapion defending him make him town in the first place? This is made even more awkward by the fact that he's also openly claiming to scumread Drapion.

There are no posts from any other player between #329 and #334. It's an awkward jump from one bad post to another bad post.

[Crescent]

Kitty's effort level kinda pales in comparison to 2277, both in post count and the average length of the posts, though 2277 was a bit odd in that someone had a train like almost all day and it just never died.

Imma check out 2100 though.

[Crescent]

And much like 2277 (which had a set train almost from the start of the start), 2100 is hard to get a proper read on because he got voted off which would naturally elevate his posting.

...Kind of just a wash for me.

[Crescent]

Also I just remembered the last time I saw someone voice suspicion of scum Gera day 1 they immediately got shot sooo....

Based on my experience with Gera, the way he has been loosely pushing on Malcolm for most of the day as the only vote on him feels like something that is more likely to come from his scum game. He's also voted the guy twice without even unvoting between those votes, which puts on full display just how long he's truly been at it. Heals hasn't contributed much outside of it.

This goes double if Galron or Wayward is scum, and it goes triple if Malcolm is town on top of that.

Scum Gera's favorite place is be is on a splinter vote that shows no signs of going anywhere, where he can nestle himself away and avoid the trains that actually matter. I called him out on this in 240 when I was zoning in on him, too.

In that case will you consider

geraintm

signaling the scumteam to nk you in 25 as a traitor (if we consider we have a traitor in this 11 players game) or just signaling the scumteam as per wiki, scumteam don't know who is the traitor?

From wiki⇨

A Traitor is considered Normal on mafiascum.net, as long as it:

•is Mafia-aligned
•knows the identities of all of the Mafia team
•identity is not known by the Mafia team, although they should know a Traitor exists
•cannot be recruited to join the rest of the Mafia team, and (unless Bulletproof) is killed if shot
•is endgamed if all other Mafia are dead
•gives a "guilty" result to Cops, an "innocent" result to Gunsmiths, and a "Traitor" result to Role Cops

Oh and I forgot about this. I mean, it's... Possible? Calling for a scan on a player two seconds into the game could be a pretty strong way to try to influence your team on who to kill.

This really doesn't amount to anything more than a tinfoil though.

[Crescent]

Then 334 comes, and... This question doesn't seem to flow properly at all. He's calling Drapion and Porkens scum together, and he's already more or less doubled down on Porkens. The question is phrased as to have no good answer. Why would Drapion defending him make him town in the first place? This is made even more awkward by the fact that he's also openly claiming to scumread Drapion.

I think it's a good question. Am I to understand you Town lean Porkens? Why?

Porkens is directly reminding me of Goldfish, who was so flagrantly useless as town in 2273 that I actually pegged her as town because I didn't think scum would allow her to continue to be so useless. The feeling I have here isn't as strong as the feeling I had on her, but I also can't remember the last time I saw scum frontload their game with the ridiculous barrage of excuses that Porkens already has. I feel he needs time for further observation. I fully intend to keep needling at him.

And it's not a good question. Drapion defending Porkens early on shouldn't have any influence of whether someone town reads or scum reads Porkens now. The fact that you're calling them scum together already means you can attack almost any potential answer to the question, hence it having no "good" answer.

[Crescent]

Possible yes, but it still shouldn't have any effect on how someone reads Porkens now. It turns Drapion's early defense of him into a qualifier that shouldn't be there.

[Crescent]

OK, but what in his ISO makes you feel Town him is a possibility? Serious question.

The way he entered the game and the way he's gone about "arguing" you suggests awful town to me more than it suggests scum, but I don't strongly read him in any particular direction (I also think he missed the mark with pointing out what in your ISO looked bad), and I would not seriously oppose voting him as he hasn't actually sold me he's an asset even if he is town.

Like, for example, NM was referenced earlier in this game. I would vote NM in a second if I got stuck in a game with him in a game, because I think he's anti-town no matter what the alignment of his role says.

I gotta get to Synagogue though.

[Crescent]

Oh and to put my mentality into further perspective in that regard, I hammered a town read of mine day 2 in 2276 with zero remorse or regret just to keep the game moving.

And I'd do it again if that situation repeated itself~

[Crescent]

OK, but what in his ISO makes you feel Town him is a possibility? Serious question.

The way he entered the game and the way he's gone about "arguing" you suggests awful town to me more than it suggests scum, but I don't strongly read him in any particular direction (I also think he missed the mark with pointing out what in your ISO looked bad), and I would not seriously oppose voting him as he hasn't actually sold me he's an asset even if he is town.

Like, for example, NM was referenced earlier in this game. I would vote NM in a second if I got stuck in a game with him in a game, because I think he's anti-town no matter what the alignment of his role says.

I gotta get to Synagogue though.

I’m not anti town although I’m aware I’m not being super aggressive like I can be.
I gave my solve though so take it as you will.

Uh.

This post was about Porkens, as were the three posts before it.

[Crescent]

I'm willing to vote Galron, Porkens and Geraint atm.

quote="In post 509, Wayward Son"]I'm willing to vote Galron, Porkens and Geraint atm.[/quote]
Is there more to your argument than #484? I'm the only one to really make an argument about him that I can remember.

[Crescent]

The previous post sums up exactly why I'm not against voting Porkens. Barring a full-on town confirmation. players like him almost always get voted off eventually. It's a matter of when, not if.

But here's a fun fact: Galron really has arguably done even

less

than Porkens has, he just hasn't been as obvious about it. He has given exactly one reason to suspect Drapion (#179), said he's voting him or Malcolm is #384, and given exactly one reason to suspect Malcolm (#472). That's... Really it.

Porkers may be doing next to nothing, but his approach to Wayward, as much as I had to pull teeth to get him to actually elaborate on anything, is more than we've gotten out of Galron. Porkens is failing, but Galron feels like he's totally lurking from commitment.

I feel like we have circled around this train while discussing trains to oppose it, while most people seem to agree everyone voting him is town, while the player the train is on hasn't given us any reason to look away him. I have yet to see anything that resembles true, game-solving thought process, and he's the lowest poster in the entire game, who has done effectively nothing since September 13th.

[Crescent]

Oh wow I totally overlooked how close the day is to over.

Imma comb his ISO again after I have lunch.

[Crescent]

And for the record it has all the makings of scum getting pressure and then lurking to try to wait it out. Galron has had 3 votes for about 50 hours. In this span, he has just 8 posts. There's been some very light shade at Malcolm, and... Really nothing else. He has made zero attempt to do anything towards the train on him, just some "pst pst hey look at Malcolm" followed by nothing.

[Crescent]

Oh and that's 4.

...Yeah pediting isn't a thing where I come from and I just don't bother with it. It feels unnatural to me.

[Crescent]

I've seen Gera do this no elimination on D1 thing before but my issue at the moment is they weren't particularly bothered about it early on and appeared to be genuinely scumhunting, whereas now they seriously want to avoid us voting while we look to consolidate on Galron's wagon.

Given the short period of time we have left I think I'm content vote here. But town should obviously be careful as we'll be approaching hammer soon, think my vote is the 4th.

VOTE: Galron

It could also be that they just really want you execution.

It could be and I believe Gera has approached the game this way as town before (certainly the no lim D1 thing has come from them as town), but their logic and read on me feels inconsistent and forced, and it came directly in response to me disliking Galron's post early on.

I mean it could just be pocket paranoia as they aren’t wrong that a wolf will purposely follow a vote from someone.
Usually if it is TvT vote.
That’s why I see what they were getting at and wolf read you myself but after reading some of your posts I no longer believe you to be a wolf but you are my weakest town read in par with Kitty.

If scum can't get a miselimination in the day phase, they can certainly push for no-elimination.... it benefits scum in both ways.

Like I'd rather self-hammer than allow a no-vote. In a game with long day phases (Most of my games have had 48 hour days), not having any information going into night 1/day 2 is nightmarish. It's bad enough in 48.

I am fairly sure I saw Gera bring up a day 1 no vote in a different game, but I don't remember what it was... Though I am curious now that I'm thinking about it.

[Crescent]

He showed favoritism towards day one no-votes in 2273, but as a single data point I wouldn't say it amounts to much. Consider curiosity sated, I guess.

[Crescent]

Oh and the other reason I don't vote a lot is other people tend to be vote happy and I don't feel mine is necessary to bring pressure. Admittedly I find it kind of fun to lead a train on scum and get them voted off without even voting for them myself.

Side note: MT being cautious about vote count jives with me. He accidentally hammered day 1 in 240 after I didn't announce my vote on Meg was -1 - I felt it should've been obvious given the guy was -2 for over 30 hours.

[Crescent]

Ok yeah that's -1

[Crescent]

I have a comment on that game, I'll share it after Galron.

What was this supposed to mean?

This was ~12 hours before you voted just now.

[Crescent]

Like I'd rather self-hammer than allow a no-vote. .

i cannot see any circumstance as town why they would self vote. it goes 100% against your desire to win

A no-vote is still worse.

Unless there is a kill interaction overnight, then with 11 players, a no-vote is the equivalent of voting off town and it gives you no information. It is the single most anti-town result possible in a game with an odd number of players.

[Crescent]

And for the record it has all the makings of scum getting pressure and then lurking to try to wait it out. Galron has had 3 votes for about 50 hours. In this span, he has just 8 posts. There's been some very light shade at Malcolm, and... Really nothing else. He has made zero attempt to do anything towards the train on him, just some "pst pst hey look at Malcolm" followed by nothing.

i would have expected more of an effort from their partners if they were scum to get another wagon going. i dont think they are going to flip red

Gun to your head who do you think is scum in Galron's wagon?

Also why do you talk in plural, do you think there are more than two scum?

This argument by Ger contains a contradiction to the state of the game.

Galron was at 2 votes, and Porkens suddenly votes for Wayward. Galron gets to 3, and Drapion suddenly votes for Wayward. This vote remained 3/2 for a very long time.

Gera's stated opinion on Drapion is quite literally "I've never had a read on them"

Gera has

completely ignored Porkens' existence all game

There is

clear evidence

of a potential counterwagon to Galron, from two players he has effectively ignored, and his argument is that scum isn't trying to mount a counterwagon? How would Gera

possibly

come to this conclusion organically if he is town?

Gera is scum, Drapion/Porkers are town. Book it.

[Crescent]

And I do still think there's a sizeable chance Galron is just scum and has been trying to lurk out the day, so I no significant interest in letting him off the hook. He has effectively vanished from the game since being the lead vote.

Gera isn't a savvy enough player to fake that massive of a slip. He knows Drapion and Porkens are town and that's why he did nothing to challenge the vote. The only worry I have here is I'm not sure Gera would go to bat this hard for a scumbuddy who's -1 and not defending themselves. Gera did not do this in a nearly identical situation with Meg in 240 when he was inactive and running away with the votes.

[Crescent]

Anyway, I wish to see any conceivable explanation for how Gera could come to his perspective as town. The only possible way I see to assume there was no counterwagon would be to town read both Drapion and Porkens - Both players he has effectively ignored this entire time. Where does a town member with his non-reads get to this conclusion from? It does not flow with anything else he has said in the game. He's speaking in an absolute that displays an opinion that clearly contradicts his own play, and suggests he has knowledge he should not. I have been unable to think of a single viable argument that makes him town.

And I want to see Galron talk, because Gera's behavior does make it more likely for him to be town, but I want to see him do something based on

his own

merit. I am glad to see he is no longer -1, though.

[Crescent]

I have to be back in Synagogue tonight for Selichot and have to be up super early tomorrow so if we're not getting answers someone has to push for them in my stead. I should, however, be completely available for the last 10+ hours of the day.

Also, I researched 240, then this game, and have confirmed multiple things: Gera did effectively nothing to defend Meg at all in and even put a vote on him for a while before immediately unvoting when he hit -1 (I town read this oops). Meg's train was objectively bad, but he was afraid to actively defend Meg once Meg had already taken off. Galron's train in this game is better than Meg's train that game.

The other is... Galron is..

Probably town

based on Gera's play. What truly of reeks of scum Gera assuming town Galron is a virtually set in stone execution once he goes -1, and wanting to get credit out of 'I told you so" are two things: There are no adequate reasons in Gera's entire ISO to suggest a town read of Galron, and this sudden stance of "He's going to flip green" only appears

immediately after

Galron hits 5 votes. The argument is convenient, it's contradictory, and it's scum. I've already had a laundry list of reasons to suspect him today, but this feels like the proof.

VOTE: Gera

Yeah ok you can die now.

When this flips scum, 90% chance Drapion/Galron/Porkens are all town... Which actually worries me because I have faith in exactly 0 of these people to get anything done.

[Crescent]

And now, I exhale. I actually can't think of anything else to say at the moment. It's like this rare moment of mental peace~

[Crescent]

(Also Shidaji and Galron there's ~one day left and both of you haven't posted in over 26 hours can you fix that kbye)

[Crescent]

So I got to thinking about the other side of it again after stumbling back onto post 524 on my phone (which is the page it was left on), and went back down the rabbit hole a bit.

I've had some waffling about how it reflects on Wayward, and I'm less sure about him being cleared, but the point in his post is directly relative: I have noticed Gera is more likely to cling to weakly tunneling (as he's doing with Malcolm) if the lead options are town, and the one he tunnels is generally also town.

I would give both Wayward and Malcolm a boost to their town equity, but not as much as the other three. Those three are directly slipped scum knowledge. These two are more meta based, and thus less reliable.

Though i would say Wayward's own actions towards Gera dont feel like S/S, though.

[Crescent]

Galron is a fine vote we don’t need to vote Gera.

Quick chime in but this is nonsense coming from someone who's been on the counterwagon to Galron for ages, especially given you immediately followed it up by continuing to attack said countertrain.

[Crescent]

So you're just going to completely ignore that I bombarded Gera with the argument that he's scum and practically town confirmed you?

Interesting.

[Crescent]

All I can really do at the moment is occasional checkins until 10 when the meat of this gets started up but I will be clear on this:

My vote is never leaving Gera unless I get a convincing argument that his stance could have been an organically formed town process as opposed to scum slipping he knows too much, or unless I absolutely have to in order to make sure this day doesn't end in an NL.

As I see it, Gera flipping scum nearly town clears Galron, and Gera is by a wide margin my top pick for scum and was already one of my scumreads before this. I have no interest in passive arguments that dont address the point.

[Crescent]

I haven't gotten there yet. Why do you think I'm caught up when I'm obviously not?

I saw you quote 678 and didn't notice you were quoting yourself.

[Crescent]

I'm thinking Wayward and not porkens was driving at something with that post and I think it was to set me up for something.

VOTE: Wayward

They are the counter wagon which makes sense if we're not tvt wagons.

I don't think porkens is a red flip on a green wayward flip though.

It's... Really straightforward.

I saw he quoted post 678 in my quick glance over, which indicated to me he was current before he made his "stepping away" or whatever it was. What I didn't notice is post 678 was his own post. It's not exactly common that someone quotes themselves.

[Crescent]

I strongly believe ger is town.

And I strongly believe the opposite.

If you think he's town, make an actual counterargument.

This is quickly reminding me of 2273 where I am one of the only people actually making an argument.

[Crescent]

'Cause I'm skimming. Like, I only actually read a fraction of your last post and my time for now is about to run out.

Gera flipping scum townclears 3 people and makes 2 others look good. Also practically townconfirms me to Boot. I'd call that a lot of info.

But here's a question: If Galron and Gera are town, why does scum Wayward jump so quickly in the first place? What's his motive for drawing potential scrutiny?

[Crescent]

Um, so I might have a bit of a problem brewing. It was roughly 11:30 when I got to bed I didn't feel quite right. At 12:30 I woke up tremoring with a pretty high fever. I've managed to slowly get my temperature to settle back down a bit (the tremoring has turned more into twitching now) but I don't know if this is just my body totally spazzing out for a night when I'm exhausted or if this is only a portent for things to come. Light isn't bothering my eyes as much as it was so I felt the game deserved an update in case I fall off a proverbial cliff, but I'm not stopping to read anything right now.

[Crescent]

Oh this is over.

I was smacked by Covid and completely shut down to end day 1, but didn't replace out overnight because I expected to get shot.

I've been shot night 1 in 3 of my last 4 minis now weee

[Crescent]

Also yesterday was my first day back to work, and I barely survived the one shift. I'm still in no shape to play another game anytime soon.

So see you when I see you I guess.

[Crescent]

I still have no idea what I did to town tell for you.