Mini Normal 2309 | Finished!

[Civil Scum]

@ Mod

Couple clarifications if you would:

Asking people to stop voting you or to stop scumhunting you entirely doesn't count for this rule and you may find yourself eliminated if you try it.

Can you explain what you mean by this?
Also:

36 hours before prod, 24 hours before replacement, 24 hour weekends… The activity timers run at half-speed on weekends.

Can you clarify this?

[Civil Scum]

VOTE: ItalianoVD
I’m just going to be honest, unless something jumps out at me Day 1, I think 10 days is a short daytime and I’m basically going to be policy eliminating replacees and lurkers.

[Civil Scum]

Also Hi everyone! and @Starfire

[Civil Scum]

@Mod
Makes sense, thank you.

@Save the Dragons
Indeed it is normal, but I come from a bygone era ha.

@Starfire
Civil is fine.

@RandomNurse
I could just see us having very little to work with on some players in such a short time frame. Also players who replace our are less likely to have PRs so I think it’s a reasonable bet.

[Civil Scum]

Can anyone tell me how to change the text underneath my profile name ie- “Mafia Scum”, I feel like it may subconsciously bias others against me.

[Civil Scum]

I fear a cumulative effect As a townie I also have historically attracted a lot of attention Day 1 especially and am wondering if this was part of the reason why.

[Civil Scum]

And by attention I should say suspicion.

[Civil Scum]

I see, thanks for the info.

@RandomNurse Perhaps it wouldn’t apply to preconfirmation replacements but I would be shocked if PRs replaced out as much as Scum or Vanilla Townies.

[Civil Scum]

I have 4 votes yay! I will only be convinced by statistical evidence that PRs replace out at the same rate. I would also like to point out that the only reason I have 4 votes on me is that I’ve posted in the game.

[Civil Scum]

I agree it’s a little early even for gut reads…

[Civil Scum]

I’m really at E-2 for no expressed reasons?

[Civil Scum]

Seriously though Greetings, why would you do that when we still have players that haven’t even confirmed yet?

[Civil Scum]

Thanks for the unvote. It’s nice to see that some of us have working smart phones.

Feel like unvoting this early reduces any sort of reactions we can get from the early wagon.
Like at least make it hurt for Civil.

I can see your point, but I would argue other people’s actions around this issue are more telling than any response I can offer.

I mean, the votes for me are all RVS or “Boo eliminating lurkers”. There’s not a lot I can say to defend myself from such accusations, if you can even call them that.

[Civil Scum]

How many scum do y’all think we are dealing with btw?

[Civil Scum]

Starfire, did you research the Jester role before or after post 85?

To me Random Nurse’s claim is null information and I’m just going to basically ignore it.

It could also be strategy of diverting attention from you, so you could be smart little scum in the backround. But honestly, at this moment it’s most beneficial to simply keep carefully watching you.

The last sentence of this quote is simply tortured in a way that to me screams “I’m looking really hard guys, trust me.”

Well shit, shouldn't you be carefully watching in general?

Who says i dont? Just saying that while i might believe your claim for now, i will not follow you like a lost puppy
[\quote]
I really see no logical reason to accept a Miller claim one iota. As for who says ya don’t?

VOTE: Vote:Naerys[/]

[Civil Scum]

Well those tags were whack.

VOTE: Naerys

[Civil Scum]

Starfire, did you research the Jester role before or after post 85?

Didn't research jester at all, I just checked condemner after to check if it could be normal

Okay, it seemed like you might have contradicted yourself but it seems you are saying that you already knew before post 85 that the Jester role was not normal.

I’m not willing to give Naerys a pass at this time, I still think his wording is a bit scummy.

Bazuf is my next top suspect which I will go into shortly.

@Bob: Do you like lurking?

[Civil Scum]

And yet you found the time within minutes of being poked…

[Civil Scum]

Also your comments about the wagon don’t sit well with me. Presumably I’m less likely to be scum since scum either contributed to the speed of the wagon or because scum wouldn’t risk bussing their partner in the RVS. How does this equate to a “flash town wagon”?

[Civil Scum]

And yet you found the time within minutes of being poked…

Have you heard of thing of end of a work day serously. Are you suprised on friday i end up posting 6:15pm and not earlier?

It’s just interesting is all.

[Civil Scum]

Care to be any more specific than that?

[Civil Scum]

Previous post is referring to Save the Dragons.

[Civil Scum]

What’s LAMIST?

I like playing the game but dislike lurkers and feel they are anti-town. I don’t think that’s inconsistent.

Thanks STD, that was very helpful.

[Civil Scum]

Naerys, I’ve read your ISOs from your other games and your English seems fine. I’m not willing to give you a pass on that yet, but in viewing your meta, you may have gotten some town points from me so I’m dropping you to my number 2 spot.

[Civil Scum]

I’m pretty sure Starfire said she voted for you since you claimed scum.

[Civil Scum]

Hi guys.

VOTE: Civil Scum

This is clearly scum

People may poo-poo this one and I realize that it’s not much (but let’s be honest, he’s got 3 posts) since people use emoticons differently and some like to call out jokes when they’ve been made, but this emoticon was really unnecessary imo. It looks a little like justifying a random vote to me, or just trying too hard to be clear that the vote was accompanied with a joke when anyone could see that already.

Oh my! E-2 already?

Lack of resistance? Interesting!

VOTE: Unvote

It’s not like anyone will hammer this early, so… why so serious?!

Mainly vibes? Starfire is relaxed, enjoyed.the humour, random's response to civil is more thought out than I think scum would bother.

Hmm… I don’t buy this…
If you had played before with Starfire and Random, I’d believe your vibes… This because, from your own experience, you’d might recognise some pattern in the way Starfire and Random are posting this early on D-1.

But right after this post you say you haven’t played with them, so these vibes… are really just vibes… or are TMI.
I think you might KNOW that they are indeed town.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Bellaphant

Let’s get this game out of RVS.

Here is where things get interesting. One, he seems unconcerned about a E-2 RVS with two unconfirmed players. This just rubs me the wrong way.

Two, I’m reading Bellaphant as town and I think this attack was really flimsy to be presented as strongly as Bazuf did.

Third, I looked up LMIST and here I think Bazuf is most guilty of this. “Let’s get this game out of RVS” This just smacks of trying to look proactive and patting himself on the back in public.

VOTE: Bazuf[/]

[Civil Scum]

Hmm… I don’t buy this…
If you had played before with Starfire and Random, I’d believe your vibes…

This quote in particular seems super scummy to me. It’s kind of suggesting that he could have gone either way on Bellaphants read, but I don’t think this is a reasonable assessment. The reasonable assessment is that Bellaphant didn’t have enough information to go on, and that his vibes should be ignored for now.

[Civil Scum]

I mean, why would you believe someone’s “vibes” because they’ve played with the people before when we’re talking about like the 34th post? Strange no?

[Civil Scum]

Mostly gut at this point. I didn’t think as scum he would be throwing out town reads so quickly. I felt that his town reads were genuine and basically agree that Starfire seems relaxed and carefree.

[Civil Scum]

But that doesn’t mean I think he’s right, nor would I suggest that a person’s vibes could be believed on post 34.

[Civil Scum]

@PC I just think you are beating a dead horse is all.

@Seanzie. You’ve been replaced.

[Civil Scum]

I’m pretty sure Starfire said she voted for you since you claimed scum.

How about we let Starfire answer questions directed at Starfire. What you are claiming here is your interpretation of what starfire said.

I disagree, I count no less than two places where she has said this.

[Civil Scum]

The silence is deafening…

[Civil Scum]

I feel voting for you might be productive or for Hu Tao who is casting random votes on page 8.

Bazuf is scum btw.

[Civil Scum]

Indeed, the notion that you are allowed to have gut vibes on players you know but are not allowed to have gut vibes on players you don’t know is indeed very strange logic.

[Civil Scum]

Explain what

[Civil Scum]

It’s one interpretation of Bazuf’s logic behind finding you scummy.

[Civil Scum]

I think it was a stretch and trying to cast shade for no reason thus why I voted them

You think it was a stretch to call it awkward that a replaced player was posting? I just don’t understand this at all.

Quite a few quiet players… makes me nervous but I’m still convinced it’s Bazuf. Bazuf and Bob probably.

bazuf sr
my can't read syndrome

I’m glad to hear you are going to be trying this game. You can start by reading the game.

[Civil Scum]

It’s lazy and anti-town.

[Civil Scum]

Oddly enough I am leaning town for STD since I read atleast one of his games as scum wherein he actually seemed to be trying.

[Civil Scum]

Oddly enough I am leaning town for STD since I read atleast one of his games as scum wherein he actually seemed to be trying.

Oddly this is very different than town!StD meta, at least from the one game I have played with him. Can you link the scum!StD game please?

viewtopic.php?t=91038

viewtopic.php?t=91149&start=1300

[Civil Scum]

viewtopic.php?t=90766

I can’t place too much stock in this because we’re still pretty early in our game and there hasn’t been a ton of material to work with, but here is a town game (the first one I found) of STD where his posting style is to me very similar to this game and markedly different from his scum games that I linked.

i also am trying to solve so calling me out for just trolling is being disingenuous

just cuz i play different doesn't mean i'm not trying. i already made a small case for civil scum being scum

I think it’s odd you feel that we should all just take your word for it. However this feeling of entitlement I would more associate with or expect from a town-aligned player rather than a scum.

seems uptight

don't agree with their logic

By far the strangest (and therefore scummiest) logic that has been put forth in this game was Bazuf saying that Bellaphant can’t have gut feelings as a townie if he hasn’t played with the people before.

[Civil Scum]

rereading the thread some of Civil Scum's posts strike me as openwolfy - it's improved over the course of this game
keeping the attention on Civil Scum - I'd like to point out their wagon. Formed as fast as it collapsed, currently only one vote on them
I'm going to chuck Civil Scum in the town bin for a bit and probably for the entirety of d1, looking at Civil's posts they look reasonable from a town pov
the thing I'm slightly concerned with is their thing with the Mafia Scum title. Why do they think it brings unnecessary attention hmmm
but the thing is it was d1, leaving that in the back of my thoughts
Could someone please provide me with a votecount when they were on E-2? That would be very useful. I blame kindle.
(I mean still better than phone lol)

Yeah, I’m not so sure about that. He does give strong Newbie vibes, but this could easily be faked by a capable player, and is a good strategy to get towncred.

I am okay with leaving

Civil Scum

be for now though.

Ah yes, I should learn how to lurk like a real pro…
I can also see this as softly casting aspersions on any of the accusations I’ve made this game instead of dealing with them head on. Kinda seems like you’re defending Bazuf.

Feel like unvoting this early reduces any sort of reactions we can get from the early wagon.
Like at least make it hurt for Civil.

No, we do not want an RVS vote to reach E-1, unless there is a legitimate reason to suspect that player.

Well.. is there a reason why we should make it hurt for

Civil Scum

?

This seems a little strange coming from someone who had no reservation about putting me at E-2 during RVS. A move which I thought was pretty scummy at the time, yet decided might be a town move since it was a little too blatant. Now I’m not so sure.

Oh my! E-2 already?

Lack of resistance? Interesting!

VOTE: Unvote

The wagon just looks liek teh usual flash town wagon.

If a wagon gets like that in rvs it has great odds than random to be on town. Not somethign that overrules later play but were as the avaerage player starts with 3/13 odds. it skews there odds to between 1/13 and 2/13 of beign scum.

I am still curious as to what your definition of a “flash town wagon” is?

[Civil Scum]

Actually I'm going to write a little more than that because there's something really bothering me about 214/215.

214 lacks conviction. At first, I read Naerys as someone who is just kind of paranoid and making a readslist a little too early into the game, but actually the post seems weirdly calculated to suspect, or at least have harbor fears about, a lot more than three people in a game where we've already talked about how there's probably three scum.

Naerys mentions:

Bazuf for low post count
Greeting for low post count
StD for low effort posting
Hu Tao for low effort posting

as well as tangential comments like "confused gut feelings" for iavh or "feels weird" about me for a post that she admittedly misinterpreted.

When we break down her main suspicions, it looks to me like Naerys is basically scumreading any sort of low effort or low activity posting, which is why I'm confused as to why Naerys left Hu Tao and RN out of her scumpool in 215. They are more or less guilty of doing the same thing as Bazuf and Greeting. Is there enough of a distinction between low post count and low effort in posts for Naerys to say "there's at least one scum in Bazuf/Greeting" this early into the game? I'm not sure personally because both could be interpreted as lurking.

Also, I think it bothers me that Naerys thought that Civil's low-activity-policy plan was suspicious in 48 and that's basically exactly what she's doing with her vote right now? I don't think it's a slip, but it doesn't add up to me.

VOTE: Naerys

I gotta be honest, unlike Greeting, I don’t love this post. I don’t think it’s scummy at all to lack conviction about your reads. I also don’t find it scummy to be suspicious of more people than there are scum. That seems natural to me.

I also don’t find the argument convincing that Naerys general approach has been scummy in its apparent contradiction. People hold contradictory beliefs and behaviors all the time.

I do agree though it was notable that Naerys gave a pass to Random Nurse and Hu Tong.

[Civil Scum]

And Bob, I think your recent defending of anti-town behaviors was very strange.

[Civil Scum]

Yeah, I’m not so sure about that. He does give strong Newbie vibes, but this could easily be faked by a capable player, and is a good strategy to get towncred.

Why should a Newbie-seeming player get town—cred? That logic simply doesn’t track for me.

[Civil Scum]

Sorry I ain’t buyin it. Those things can be newbie-scum just as easily. I don’t believe that you think that could be a real strategy.

I got you at number two behind Bazuf.

[Civil Scum]

In your vast experience surely you could present one in-game example of a person faking newbie tendencies and getting town cred for it.

[Civil Scum]

ehh that's fine
II'd probably.like you to answer my question for now

That the player either hasnt really started playing or isnt really posting there solving.

Always the wrong approach to take to assume a player isnt solving.

If you cant see their solving town players usualy do what you’re doing and ask questions.

Were as PC just cast Shade. Doesnt preclude them from being town but is on balance something scum are more likely to do as it shines a bad light while also not creating an opportunity to sort them.

The bolded sentence I flatly disagree with. You should assume people are scum and are not trying to solve imo.

As for the rest of this, I still can’t figure out why anybody thought PC was casting shade.

[Civil Scum]

Yeah I just have to say that what Greeting said about me possibly acting confused newbie town really is bizarre to me. The things he pointed to that I said were not alignment indicative in the slightest, so why not just say I could be newbie scum, why apply this extra layer onto my behavior of ‘he could be a competent scum pretending to be newbie’.

Also I’m just going to post my read list and then take a break, I’m being a bit OCD I realize.

I’m order of increasing scumminess with an asterisk indicating a possible failed read on my part, or to say that I think the player seems town but might just be scum playing a very good game (lord knows I’ve been wrong before):

Civil Scum- of course

STD- on meta

Starfire*- just a read

Bellaphant- for reasons previously stated

Naerys- on meta

Random Nurse*- obviously hasn’t given much to work with but was the first person to come back and take me off E-2. Gets plenty of points from me for that.

Iamveryhappy- tough to read but I liked that he made note that my asking about the mafia scum tag under my name seemed a little paranoid. I would argue WIFOM since as scum I wouldn’t draw attention to myself in this way, but I’m glad he mentioned it cause it seemed like an obvious question to be asking.

Hu Tao- really unsure about them so far but haven’t done anything particularly scummy.

Political Clout- I initially thought that his banter with Starfire seemed like genuine scum hunting, but personally I am able to go after others pretty hard and pretty convincingly when I’m scum, and I’m sure many people here can so I’m taking those towny points away.

KKFC- He seems pro town at times but I’m struggling to put much faith in some of his arguments thus far.

Bob- for reasons stated (see my ISO)

Greetings- for reasons stated

Bazuf- Bazuf top scum and due for a prod shortly if I’m not mistaken.

[Civil Scum]

Hi Bob, stick around would ya.

rereading the thread some of Civil Scum's posts strike me as openwolfy - it's improved over the course of this game
keeping the attention on Civil Scum - I'd like to point out their wagon. Formed as fast as it collapsed, currently only one vote on them
I'm going to chuck Civil Scum in the town bin for a bit and probably for the entirety of d1, looking at Civil's posts they look reasonable from a town pov
the thing I'm slightly concerned with is their thing with the Mafia Scum title. Why do they think it brings unnecessary attention hmmm
but the thing is it was d1, leaving that in the back of my thoughts
Could someone please provide me with a votecount when they were on E-2? That would be very useful. I blame kindle.
(I mean still better than phone lol)

Yeah, I’m not so sure about that. He does give strong Newbie vibes, but this could easily be faked by a capable player, and is a good strategy to get towncred.

I am okay with leaving

Civil Scum

be for now though.

Ah yes, I should learn how to lurk like a real pro…
I can also see this as softly casting aspersions on any of the accusations I’ve made this game instead of dealing with them head on. Kinda seems like you’re defending Bazuf.

Feel like unvoting this early reduces any sort of reactions we can get from the early wagon.
Like at least make it hurt for Civil.

No, we do not want an RVS vote to reach E-1, unless there is a legitimate reason to suspect that player.

Well.. is there a reason why we should make it hurt for

Civil Scum

?

This seems a little strange coming from someone who had no reservation about putting me at E-2 during RVS. A move which I thought was pretty scummy at the time, yet decided might be a town move since it was a little too blatant. Now I’m not so sure.

Oh my! E-2 already?

Lack of resistance? Interesting!

VOTE: Unvote

The wagon just looks liek teh usual flash town wagon.

If a wagon gets like that in rvs it has great odds than random to be on town. Not somethign that overrules later play but were as the avaerage player starts with 3/13 odds. it skews there odds to between 1/13 and 2/13 of beign scum.

I am still curious as to what your definition of a “flash town wagon” is?

Last question please?

Also you popped back in recently and asked questions of Greetings and Naerys. Do you not have questions for any of the ten other players?

[Civil Scum]

Well you didn’t answer my questions and the I find comprehending some of your writing to be quite difficult.

That said, you may be making a few good points about Naerys which I need to consider.

[Civil Scum]

Ninja’d

Ok I kind of understand I guess.

And of the ten other players?

[Civil Scum]

After rereading Naerys big read post, I have to say I completely disagree with Bobs read about it earlier and still lean town on Naerys.

Yeah I just have to say that what Greeting said about me possibly acting confused newbie town really is bizarre to me. The things he pointed to that I said were not alignment indicative in the slightest, so why not just say I could be newbie scum, why apply this extra layer onto my behavior of ‘he could be a competent scum pretending to be newbie’.

Also I’m just going to post my read list and then take a break, I’m being a bit OCD I realize.

I’m order of increasing scumminess with an asterisk indicating a possible failed read on my part, or to say that I think the player seems town but might just be scum playing a very good game (lord knows I’ve been wrong before):

Civil Scum- of course

STD- on meta

Starfire*- just a read

Bellaphant- for reasons previously stated

Naerys- on meta

Random Nurse*- obviously hasn’t given much to work with but was the first person to come back and take me off E-2. Gets plenty of points from me for that.

Iamveryhappy- tough to read but I liked that he made note that my asking about the mafia scum tag under my name seemed a little paranoid. I would argue WIFOM since as scum I wouldn’t draw attention to myself in this way, but I’m glad he mentioned it cause it seemed like an obvious question to be asking.

Hu Tao- really unsure about them so far but haven’t done anything particularly scummy.

Political Clout- I initially thought that his banter with Starfire seemed like genuine scum hunting, but personally I am able to go after others pretty hard and pretty convincingly when I’m scum, and I’m sure many people here can so I’m taking those towny points away.

KKFC- He seems pro town at times but I’m struggling to put much faith in some of his arguments thus far.

Bob- for reasons stated (see my ISO)

Greetings- for reasons stated

Bazuf- Bazuf top scum and due for a prod shortly if I’m not mistaken.

So, let me get this straight.

You are very sure that

Bazuf

is mafia because he is a low poster and that I am scum for defending him, even though I never even mentioned him in my posts?

I also don't see an asterisk near those reads, does that mean that you are absolutely certain of them?

Of course that doesn’t mean absolute certainty, only more confidence I would say.

I am not voting Bazuf because of lurking, that is just icing on the cake.

As for the game you linked i will take a look, although preliminarily I will say that I’ve seen newbie scum feign confusion plenty of times about reads and the way the game itself is playing out as a cover for their lack of conviction and being wish-washy etc, but when it came to me you cited things like asking about acronyms and I don’t see a connection between those behaviors.

I am voting Bazuf for the following, which you must have missed somehow (possibly by skimming rather than reading)

Oh my! E-2 already?

Lack of resistance? Interesting!

VOTE: Unvote

It’s not like anyone will hammer this early, so… why so serious?!

Mainly vibes? Starfire is relaxed, enjoyed.the humour, random's response to civil is more thought out than I think scum would bother.

Hmm… I don’t buy this…
If you had played before with Starfire and Random, I’d believe your vibes… This because, from your own experience, you’d might recognise some pattern in the way Starfire and Random are posting this early on D-1.

But right after this post you say you haven’t played with them, so these vibes… are really just vibes… or are TMI.
I think you might KNOW that they are indeed town.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Bellaphant

Let’s get this game out of RVS.

I don’t know how Bazuf knows no one will hammer but whatever.

This case against Bellaphant is flimsy, and I feel Bazuf overstates it.

Bazuf says he would believe Bellaphants vibes (which Bellaphant had on post 34) if Bellaphant had played with either Random Nurse or Starfire before. Since Bellaphant hasn’t, Bazuf votes for him.

The most favorable reading of “believe your vibes” means ‘I would trust you are having genuine vibes’ and the me, finding it scummy that Bellaphant has gut feelings about players he hasn’t played with and finding it townie if he has gut feelings about players he has played with (on post 34 mind you) is the type of absolute nonsense logic that scums sometimes resort to in their effort to make shit up.

[Civil Scum]

EBWOP: ‘I would trust you are having genuine vibes’ and *to me…

[Civil Scum]

Oh and I almost forgot.

I really didn’t like “Let’s get this game out of RVS”

It smacked of trying to appear pro town and publicly patting himself on the back.

[Civil Scum]

Yeah I just have to say that what Greeting said about me possibly acting confused newbie town really is bizarre to me. The things he pointed to that I said were not alignment indicative in the slightest, so why not just say I could be newbie scum, why apply this extra layer onto my behavior of ‘he could be a competent scum pretending to be newbie’.

Also I’m just going to post my read list and then take a break, I’m being a bit OCD I realize.

I’m order of increasing scumminess with an asterisk indicating a possible failed read on my part, or to say that I think the player seems town but might just be scum playing a very good game (lord knows I’ve been wrong before):

Civil Scum- of course

STD- on meta

Starfire*- just a read

Bellaphant- for reasons previously stated

Naerys- on meta

Random Nurse*- obviously hasn’t given much to work with but was the first person to come back and take me off E-2. Gets plenty of points from me for that.

Iamveryhappy- tough to read but I liked that he made note that my asking about the mafia scum tag under my name seemed a little paranoid. I would argue WIFOM since as scum I wouldn’t draw attention to myself in this way, but I’m glad he mentioned it cause it seemed like an obvious question to be asking.

Hu Tao- really unsure about them so far but haven’t done anything particularly scummy.

Political Clout- I initially thought that his banter with Starfire seemed like genuine scum hunting, but personally I am able to go after others pretty hard and pretty convincingly when I’m scum, and I’m sure many people here can so I’m taking those towny points away.

KKFC- He seems pro town at times but I’m struggling to put much faith in some of his arguments thus far.

Bob- for reasons stated (see my ISO)

Greetings- for reasons stated

Bazuf- Bazuf top scum and due for a prod shortly if I’m not mistaken.

That does not cover anything about stuff other than me/you interactions.

I have very little read on you atm, so I’m clinging on to one thing :shrug:

[Civil Scum]

In your vast experience surely you could present one in-game example of a person faking newbie tendencies and getting town cred for it.

Sure. In this game I was instructing an actual newbie player to use that fact to his advantage by faking doubt and seeming confused. We ended up winning. Hence why I am not townreading you for newbieness.

Well I’m not sure that people should be giving out townie points for the behaviors you recommended, but this does explain why you were apt to map this extra deceptive layer onto my behavior, namely because it’s the way you think and you’ve literally used the strategy before.

[Civil Scum]

I don’t think I’ve obsessed about it but whatever.

It’s the only thing RN has given us to work with, but I agree it may have gotten him an overly favorable ranking on my list.

It’s be a good play for him as scum, I don’t think that can be denied.

Do you have anything to say about the other 10 players or is that about it?

[Civil Scum]

UNVOTE: Naerys

Feeling a little under the weather so I won't elaborate on too much stuff, but I think the response in 267 is pretty good. Do you have games on this site where you feel like you got pocketed by scum?

---

A little wary of Civil Scum's townread on RN, and I'm also confused (genuinely, not trying to throw shade under the guise of being confused) about the discoure around the early wagon on Civil Scum.

To me, he was never under any pressure of being eliminated. I think in my last 2 completed Newbie games we had players put to E-1 by page 2 with no actual threat of hammering. So, any retroactive analysis that suggests such seems weird to me (not sure if there was any).

The players on the wagon were Bazuf, Starfire, Random Nurse, Bellaphant. Bazuf was the first vote, but the only one of the four who Civil Scum scumreads? In fact he townreads the others. So why was he so upset over his wagon if everyone who contributed to it after the first vote was town?

I could be misreading this.

The only vote I really took issue with was Greetings E-2, especially since I’m a subsequent post he said the town shouldn’t put anyone at E-1 so early.

I voted Bazuf beceause i wanted to get some reaction from this player. Cannot be votes used in this way at this stage?

Seems fine to me. I agree there was some overreacting

It looks to me like Bazuf and his lack of posts are being used as easy pushes given the early slant of the game against inactivity.

I’m not sure how many times I have to explain that I’m pushing Bazuf for LAMIST and for having the strangest voting logic yet, not for lurking.

[Civil Scum]

I voted Bazuf beceause i wanted to get some reaction from this player. Cannot be votes used in this way at this stage?

Seems fine to me. I agree there was some overreacting

Can you explain what you mean by this?

[Civil Scum]

I don’t disagree about the hammering potential angle. But I still think you avoided the core of the case which was his LAMIST ( taking credit openly for ending RVS on an overblown case on Bellaphant) and some accompanying voting logic which is to me inexplicable, so I think you may have missed the mark a bit here in your defense of him.

And not knowing how many players there are…

Revising my top 6 suspects:
Bob
Naerys
Hu Tao
KKFC
Greetings
Bazuf

[Civil Scum]

I voted Bazuf beceause i wanted to get some reaction from this player. Cannot be votes used in this way at this stage?

Seems fine to me. I agree there was some overreacting

Can you explain what you mean by this?

Just did

I still don’t understand. Who was overreacting and to what?

[Civil Scum]

My previous messages in 305/306 probably come across as a little fragmented, sorry I am running a fever.

The reason I think Bazuf LAMIST style / weird voting pattern isn't that bad is because I think he does this pretty often as town. The below quote is from Newbie 2125. He has a strong pattern of scumreading someone early and helping move the game out of RVS. It is kind of interesting he said something about RVS this time, but this post reminds me a lot of 76.

Eh, I do this all the time in my games.

Dunno why but this post feels townie, cause I think scum!Delta wouldn't defend another player this early, especially not with this kind of defense. In fact, right now Delta has become my top (and quite possibly my only) townread.

I don't understand how you can townread someone so early on and for such a shallow reason.
I can see his comment coming for scum as well.

I think you might know for a fact that Delta is in fact town and you're just trying to get on his good side...
UNVOTE: Deltabreedy
VOTE: DragonEater

I don't think Civil / Bella reads on Bazuf are "bad", but maybe a little miscalibrated based on his playstyle?
Like the things about LAMIST or the "..." are pretty easily explained as NAI for Bazuf (at least based on me understanding of his meta).
Similarly, the idea that he hasn't really interacted with his vote is probably just because he hasn't been active on the site. Once again looping back to my idea that there is either a town-subconscious or scum-conscious decision to push on him because of his inactivity.

I agree that the similarities are interesting and I agree that his inactivity is more likely to be irl issues rather than fears of inadequacy.

However I will note that he was wrong about Dragoneater in that game and yet recycled the logic this time anyways. I’ll also point out the difference this time that he basically said he would allow Bellaphant this behavior if Bellaphant had played with RN or Starfire before which again just doesn’t track for me.

I agree you seem to be trying rather hard to defend someone who only has one vote. I think Greeting was defending him indirectly as well. But that could mean he’s town. Doesn’t necessarily indicate a full-scale mafia implosion.

As to why I’m beginning to suspect you I’ll go into once I have a little more time.

[Civil Scum]

Ok I missed that iamveryhappy replaced DE that game and retract what I said about recycling, however I still find his voting logic incredibly flawed.

I missed the replacement at a glance, I hardly think that’s comparable to not knowing how many players are in your own game.

[Civil Scum]

Throwing in the caveat that it’s okay to have gut feelings if you have meta just doesn’t jive with me. If it’s too early for reads, just go with that like with DE. The caveat to me is reasonable in the sense of whether your vibes are accurate, but as to whether it’s okay to have them or not, I just don’t buy it.

He had every reason to make it the same accusation as on DE in that it was simply too early. Adding the caveat and then saying that it is completely determinative as to whether it’s scummy this time or not just seems like someone trying to come up with extra reasons to vote for a townie.

[Civil Scum]

I think allowing the caveat on Bellaphant is still scummy and only serves to blame Bellaphant for what Bazuf knows is a flawed vote.

[Civil Scum]

You see a scumhunting heuristic, I see evidence of a guilty conscience. We’ll agree to disagree for now.

If scum are Bazuf, RN and Hu Tong I will forever double down on policying lurkers lol.

So what’s up with your vote?

[Civil Scum]

Sorry, my mistake. Looking forward to hearing from Bazuf and RN.

[Civil Scum]

I've been thinking a lot on the fundamentals of mafia and this site and a bit partly of civil scums opening approach to the game of policy lim lurkers since people have been calling them town and for sum reasons that rubbed me the wrong way. Essentially Mr. Scum is boxing with shadows. And has announced that he would be boxing with these shadows openly. I've skimmed a few games of Mr. civil I don't recall them doing this in the first four games on this site. I also realized I was incredibly bored reading old games so I stopped. What I actually need to do is look at what civil has been doing and who they have been voting for. Are they actually playing the game or are they only appearing to be playing the game by voting and pushing someone who isn't here to defend themselves.

I’ve been away for over a decade and so did a lot of thinking about the game before I came back. I’ve often thought that lurking was the main problem with mafia in this format. After returning and seeing that daytime lengths had been halved, I finally decided it was time to push the lim lurker policy for once. Lim lurker policy has been around forever btw, I’m hardly the first to bring this up.

As for this last point, I was after Bazuf for his third post pretty soon after it was made, how was I to know he’d never come back?

I don't want to take over the entire game with my looks and charisma and such good amazing thoughtful posts that I do but I am a narcissist and want everything to be about me y'know? Maybe we should talk about civil ape too...

Presumably we all have smartphones here? Not a single thing I have done has prevented anyone from being more active than they have been.

As for why would RN reveal his BP modifier. I am interested to know RNs reasoning for that.

I have to look at the specific posts later of KKFCs that Bellaphants referencing. I think KKFC has been oddly hung up on issues of consistency around the policy lim discussion which I haven’t liked since I believe him to be capable of deeper analysis.

Hu Tao being a bit feisty here eh?

Naerys is creeping up my list as scum due to things people are saying about their play style this game.

I have a terrible feeling about Greeting who is gradually taking my top spot from Bazuf. Greeting recomends a lurkish strat as scum in the game he linked btw…

[Civil Scum]

I don’t feel like building a case on anyone today. It will have to wait until tomorrow. I did read the thread today though, and I’m starting to feel more confident in my townleans.

Should you be building a case on just anyone?

Perhaps you’d like to share some thoughts on the lim lurker policy debate?

I certainly find your silence on the matter interesting, being as I’ve now seen you advocate for lurking as an intelligent scum strategy.

[Civil Scum]

@ Hu Tao, okay but why is it *scummy* to post about it? This currently reads like "PoliticalClout is cringe, so I'll vote for him."

As of right now, i believe atleast 1 scum is lurking. Bazuf/ Greeting are rather unreadable thanks to low posts and i am starting to believe atleast one of them is a scum.

I really don't like this, this seems way too confident and somewhat informed. Why are scum lurking, why are Bazuf/Greeting more likely than anyone else with 'low posts'? I like KityKimFanClub's 226

Putting Naerys, Hu Tao, and Bellaphant toward the scum side of things right now.

Apologies for the low content posting, will be back within a few days, currently spending time with my partner while she is up. Hopefully not going to miss a day again, but just in case.

Mod, requesting VLA until Wednesday 2200 UTC +1

what you think points to Naerys being informed rather than just overconfient on read. As its a common read to claim that they think one of 2 players is scum. Even if often its wrong

I agree somewhat in that I have seen similar behavior from townies. But I find it odd that Naerys didn’t point to anything in particular about these two that caused her suspicion.

[Civil Scum]

@PC: While I am enjoying your Jack Kerouac impression, your self professions of paranoia seem more than a little self-serving…

[Civil Scum]

I also notice you have not said Greeting’s name yet this game.

[Civil Scum]

Rereading today, I have to say it’s Greeting and KKFC. Will go more in depth when I have time.

[Civil Scum]

Alright so Greeting. I have the worst feeling about him on gut but I'll be voting for KKFC since I think the case is a little stronger, and becuase I think
the case on KKFC clearly implicates Naerys and not Greeting.

He has been a touch lurky I think we can all agree, and as I said before I find it very odd that he never weighed in on the policy discussions
since in the mafia PT he linked he advocated for lurking: "I think it would be best if you attracted the least attention possible on Day 1."
His scum partner goes on to lurk to the point that Greeting writes "Yo, Tidus, you need to post once every 36 hours...
I don't think we should be touching Alianna yet. She'll be easier to miseliminate for being overly active...
You should make up some reads. Town may be onto you for not contributing too much."
In other words 'Thanks for taking my advice to heart but you are over doing it!'.

First off there is Post 266. I still maintain that his assertion that my vote was on Bazuf for lurking was
a sign of skimming the game rather than reading. A charge he never denied mind you.

Yeah I just have to say that what Greeting said about me possibly acting confused newbie town really is bizarre to me. The things he pointed to that I said were not alignment indicative in the slightest, so why not just say I could be newbie scum, why apply this extra layer onto my behavior of ‘he could be a competent scum pretending to be newbie’.

Also I’m just going to post my read list and then take a break, I’m being a bit OCD I realize.

I’m order of increasing scumminess with an asterisk indicating a possible failed read on my part, or to say that I think the player seems town but might just be scum playing a very good game (lord knows I’ve been wrong before):

Civil Scum- of course

STD- on meta

Starfire*- just a read

Bellaphant- for reasons previously stated

Naerys- on meta

Random Nurse*- obviously hasn’t given much to work with but was the first person to come back and take me off E-2. Gets plenty of points from me for that.

Iamveryhappy- tough to read but I liked that he made note that my asking about the mafia scum tag under my name seemed a little paranoid. I would argue WIFOM since as scum I wouldn’t draw attention to myself in this way, but I’m glad he mentioned it cause it seemed like an obvious question to be asking.

Hu Tao- really unsure about them so far but haven’t done anything particularly scummy.

Political Clout- I initially thought that his banter with Starfire seemed like genuine scum hunting, but personally I am able to go after others pretty hard and pretty convincingly when I’m scum, and I’m sure many people here can so I’m taking those towny points away.

KKFC- He seems pro town at times but I’m struggling to put much faith in some of his arguments thus far.

Bob- for reasons stated (see my ISO)

Greetings- for reasons stated

Bazuf- Bazuf top scum and due for a prod shortly if I’m not mistaken.

So, let me get this straight.

You are very sure that

Bazuf

is mafia because he is a low poster and that I am scum for defending him, even though I never even mentioned him in my posts?

I also don't see an asterisk near those reads, does that mean that you are absolutely certain of them?

Now the exchange that really stood out to me when I reread was Post 240.

So your out of RVS now. As the game stands where do you feel your actual vote would be most placed. Even if you strongest reads is null scum.

I’m in no rush to decide my vote yet. What I can say as of now is that I have weak townreads on

KatyKimFanClub

and

iamveryhappy

.

This first sentence to me is absolutely dripping with a level of caution that townies just don't need to have. Like Bob is even saying even if it's a very
weak read. I also find his notions about his vote strange... I mean do you only have one vote per D-1? Does it go there and stay?

Greeting is a very calculating and opportunistic scum player and this caution could also be interepretated as not wanting to shoe-horn himself into anything
before he decides which way the wind is blowing.

So your out of RVS now. As the game stands where do you feel your actual vote would be most placed. Even if you strongest reads is null scum.

I’m in no rush to decide my vote yet. What I can say as of now is that I have weak townreads on

KatyKimFanClub

and

iamveryhappy

.

How come?

I feel like their efforts to solve the game are genuine.

I also didn't like this Post 246. Very generic, and I mean, iamveryhappy's efforts have seemed genuine? The guy setup solving and
trying to post at the top of each page? Pass me the crack pipe bro.

Onto KKFC.

[Civil Scum]

Alright here was some of KKFC's reasoning for voting for Naerys given in Post 224.

Why does Naerys still think something that she admits in 214 she misinterpreted is weird?

Please explain to me why you still think my post about Civil is weird please.

and then in Post 226 where KKFC votes for Naerys.

Actually I'm going to write a little more than that because there's something really bothering me about 214/215.

214 lacks conviction. At first, I read Naerys as someone who is just kind of paranoid and making a readslist a little too early into the game, but actually the post seems weirdly calculated to suspect, or at least have harbor fears about, a lot more than three people in a game where we've already talked about how there's probably three scum.

Naerys mentions:

Bazuf for low post count
Greeting for low post count
StD for low effort posting
Hu Tao for low effort posting

as well as tangential comments like "confused gut feelings" for iavh or "feels weird" about me for a post that she admittedly misinterpreted.

When we break down her main suspicions, it looks to me like Naerys is basically scumreading any sort of low effort or low activity posting, which is why I'm confused as to why Naerys left Hu Tao and RN out of her scumpool in 215. They are more or less guilty of doing the same thing as Bazuf and Greeting. Is there enough of a distinction between low post count and low effort in posts for Naerys to say "there's at least one scum in Bazuf/Greeting" this early into the game? I'm not sure personally because both could be interpreted as lurking.

Also, I think it bothers me that Naerys thought that Civil's low-activity-policy plan was suspicious in 48 and that's basically exactly what she's doing with her vote right now? I don't think it's a slip, but it doesn't add up to me.

VOTE: Naerys

Now, I didn't particularly care for the read at the time, but since then there has been some agreement that Naerys play seems off, lacking conviction, confused, 'just vibing', etc.

STD votes for Naerys in Post 288.

In Post 298 KKFC unvotes Naerys.

Let's take a look why and see if we believe him.

UNVOTE: Naerys

Feeling a little under the weather so I won't elaborate on too much stuff, but I think the response in 267 is pretty good. Do you have games on this site where you feel like you got pocketed by scum?

---

A little wary of Civil Scum's townread on RN, and I'm also confused (genuinely, not trying to throw shade under the guise of being confused) about the discoure around the early wagon on Civil Scum.

To me, he was never under any pressure of being eliminated. I think in my last 2 completed Newbie games we had players put to E-1 by page 2 with no actual threat of hammering. So, any retroactive analysis that suggests such seems weird to me (not sure if there was any).

The players on the wagon were Bazuf, Starfire, Random Nurse, Bellaphant. Bazuf was the first vote, but the only one of the four who Civil Scum scumreads? In fact he townreads the others. So why was he so upset over his wagon if everyone who contributed to it after the first vote was town?

I could be misreading this.

So KKFC cites 267 as the reason for his unvote, let's take a look at 267 and ask ourselves if it really could have allayed KKFC's suspicions.

Why does Naerys still think something that she admits in 214 she misinterpreted is weird?

Please explain to me why you still think my post about Civil is weird please.

As i said before i posted my read list, i was about to reread. And in ISO your post simply looks weird to me, Katy.

214 lacks conviction. At first, I read Naerys as someone who is just kind of paranoid and making a readslist a little too early into the game, but actually the post seems weirdly calculated to suspect, or at least have harbor fears about, a lot more than three people in a game where we've already talked about how there's probably three scum.

I dont think i am being as paranoid as in my previous games. And i came to conclusion its better to express my own opinions, even if they are wrong. What i actually have fear from, is being lead by a scum like a useful fool. I dont want that, thank you very much.

I simply don't believe that this was enough to change KKFC's mind. I haven't played with KKFC, but I've read a little bit of his games, and he's not exactly one to let a point go.
Yet here, when he is asking about why Naerys thought his post about me was weird, he apparently accepted whole-heartedly the very convincing explanation 'I don't know, your post simply looks weird to me.'

And the rest of 267? What is even there? A weak meta defense claim? Saying she is afraid of being used by scum?

I am baffled as to how this post convinced KKFC to unvote, since I don't think it addressed any of his stated concerns about Naerys.

I propose that he unvoted because STD just voted for Naerys and he wanted to take some of the wind out of the sails.

[Civil Scum]

Almost forgot.

Post 304

Oh honestly I thought for a second this was 11p and 4 votes were E-2, hence my not including Greetings in your vote count. That's my bad and explains a lot more honestly.

Before I go to bed, I do just want to say that your read on Bazuf just seems to be miscalibrated for a couple of reasons.

Bazuf knows you aren't getting hammered because he's just played in two Newbie games where people got put at E-1 basically by page 2 and neither got hammered, and there was a lot of discourse how no one is hammering from those spots.

This, and my misunderstanding of the vote count on you is why I was skeptical of your "lamist, weird voting logic" reasoning for being suspicious of Bazuf.

If not knowing how many players are in a game by Post 304 isn't a sing of skimming, I don't know what is.

VOTE: KKFC [/]

[Civil Scum]

I'm not really sure how you got the impression that the post totally allayed my suspicions, but whatever.
[\quote]

I believe it was when you said as much and then unvoted.

I’ll look into your meta some more as I believe strongly in it but I’m still baffled by your dropping Naerys.

[Civil Scum]

Just to be clear, I was shading Hu Tao a bit for active lurking.

If you count Naerys, Bazuf, and Greeting, you’re the fourth player I’ve gone after. I don’t think that qualifies as tunneling at least in the way I understand the term.

Suggesting I’m more anti town than RN or Bazuf at this point? Don’t be ridiculous. I’ll still vote to eliminate any of the less active players if no one else thinks my scum reads have any merit.

Also, as PC said, being too flimsy on your reads can be used to push you since it is a bit scummy. You can hardly blame me for that.

[Civil Scum]

Flimsy and lacking conviction are not the same thing and it’s about degrees and the players and their reasoning and the stage of the game.

Bob and Hu Tao were never that high for me you have the list upside down.

Also I didn’t say you don’t change your mind, I said you sometimes don’t let a point go. And you dropped a point with Naerys suddenly it seemed to me. I’ve been skimming meta since I’m looking at everyone I’ll admit, my time is not unlimited.

[Civil Scum]

Then why is your vote on me? Push for a wagon on an inactive and hope it gets them to stop lurking.

Well, one could argue I did do this and you inexplicably turned into their lawyer.

[Civil Scum]

How is my example with Naerys different than the one with Jason? That's why I provided the quote. I made a read, was given more evidence, then changed my mind.

The overall example is very similar I will admit and I’ll take it into consideration.

More specific to letting a point go with Naerys was you asking what she thought was weird about a post of yours and then accepting her just repeating that it was weird. I wasn’t speaking on that issue in the wider sense of letting your whole read go.

[Civil Scum]

Well, one could argue I did do this and you inexplicably turned into their lawyer.

You didn't push on him for being inactive you made a bad meta argument based on things like emojis. Wagon the other one see if you stop you.

Question since I sense things calming down. Do you think it's inexplicable to try to push someone away from a bad read? Surely you see the merit in my original points about Bazuf (that he has a strong town meta indicative post, that he uses emojis, that he pushes on people early in games). Sure, we disagreed about whether it was appropriate for him to give the caveat, but if you're me and you read someone whose push has a lot of points that don't deserve merit, you would speak up right?

Calling it inexplicable was a reach. I would have preferred Bazuf answered for himself. And I would say that in my 8 or 9 games here it was probably the strongest defense I’ve seen given for an inactive player.

If it were me I probably would have voiced my issues with the case and then left it alone until Bazuf came back.

[Civil Scum]

I counted out of curiosity, this is my 13th game here. Was exclusively an IRL player before that.

Well hopefully Bazuf is alright. However I see my worst fears coming true.

As for arguments, it’s just a part of the game as far as I’m concerned. I won’t take anything the wrong way, I actually like players who seem like they give a shit.

[Civil Scum]

It can be scummy if the defense isn’t warranted imo, but you were making good points so you got a pass.

I won’t lie, I have a bit of meta read on you but it sadly doesn’t apply to this situation and there’s no way I’m going to tell you what it is.

[Civil Scum]

I would be digressing here if I went into what an adbomination mafia day-talk is.

But I find it humorous that you admit Naerys post 267 was weak, so weak in fact it couldn’t have been work-shopped by 3 people.

My meta reads have historically been pretty solid, don’t you worry about that.

[Civil Scum]

We’ll see. I’m usually more selective so I’ve had to skim. I did say historically…

I still think you let Naerys off too easily, to a degree it looks scummy but I’m curious what others think.

I’ll also just add for the record I knew 10 days is too short and we’d end up with practically nothing to go on for half the players in the game.

[Civil Scum]

That last post is a little funny coming from you this game Greeting…

[Civil Scum]

My case on KKFC was perfectly legitimate. Incidentally I find Naerys pretty scummy at this point and I would be okay with that lim.

In the unfortunate event she flipped town, that would atleast exonerate KKFC in my eyes since my case mainly revolves around him protecting a scum partner.

[Civil Scum]

RN, why would you reveal the BP modifier, why not let mafia waste a kill? Is nk miller even a thing? I’ve never seen the role tbh, seems like a dumb one.

Bob, where are your pebbles ? Are they expensive or something?

[Civil Scum]

I feel Bellaphant is skating by a little.

RN, you noticed something in the Naerys/STD exchange, enough with the suspense.

[Civil Scum]

Greeting, I’ve made a couple points about you that you’ve simply ignored. Why are you so afraid of generating content?

[Civil Scum]

Just to be clear, I was shading Hu Tao a bit for active lurking.

If you count Naerys, Bazuf, and Greeting, you’re the fourth player I’ve gone after. I don’t think that qualifies as tunneling at least in the way I understand the term.

Suggesting I’m more anti town than RN or Bazuf at this point? Don’t be ridiculous. I’ll still vote to eliminate any of the less active players if no one else thinks my scum reads have any merit.

Also, as PC said, being too flimsy on your reads can be used to push you since it is a bit scummy. You can hardly blame me for that.

What exactly is active lurking? I just post when I have time. But if I'm being honest I see you and kkfc as TvT at the moment. Not 100% sure on it but I don't think I want either of you today. Is there someone else you'd want?

It’s a term that’s been around a long time.

I’m having some doubts about my town reads on Starfire and Bellaphant, some of the grilling of Naerys looks a little too coordinated for my tastes, but I would be happy with eliminating Naerys D-1.

1-shot

Bulletproof Miller, to be exact.

Sounds legit.

Was this a sarcastic comment,

Naerys

?

I am interested in the answer to this question.

[Civil Scum]

Thanks, I missed the earlier answer at first. Can you say why it seemed legit to you?

Also Yimmy, thanks for replacing, but is that even before the deadline?

Greeting, I guess my style is to bring as much evidence as I can muster against my suspects and see if I like their defense. Also I said you advocate for a lurkish strat as being smart, not that you necessarily lurk, although this game I feel it’s a valid accusation.

[Civil Scum]

Another contradiction in your point is you disliking both me throwing my vote carelessly in RVS

(which I usually do without reading the thread at all) and criticising my general caution about voting thereafter.

The bolded part I simply have no recollection of at all. Are you misrepresenting me continually on purpose or on accident?

[Civil Scum]

Oh never mind… but I mean, was I supposed to

like

your RVS E-2 of me?

And if that was just carelessness during RVS, what could that possibly have to do with a reluctance to vote or name suspects after the game was under way?

[Civil Scum]

To my point about Greeting and RVS, it seems duplicitous to say that RVS counters the later accusation, being as it is in fact mere RVS.

PC- So Bob mostly for their town read on Hu Tao?

What about voting Naerys to get info on KKFC?

[Civil Scum]

What about the threat of a vigilante kill?

[Civil Scum]

See I don’t think there’s any good reason for RN to claim BP if he really is a townie either. Why not let the mafia waste a kill as well?

He has dodged the question before though… and suggested that he is perhaps inviting us to speculate.

I need to reread through some of this Hu Tao, Naerys, Bob stuff.

As to my thoughts on Greeting, I think he is very scummy so far. And I am getting a bit of townie vibes from Naerys defense as well.

[Civil Scum]

I don’t know, some of the modifiers and roles are new to me.

I’m just going to come out and say it since I don’t care for these PR games.

The only reason I can see for scum is to explain their survival or to later claim a PR.

This is because the only legit reasons (ie not heavier weighting a gamble on vigs over a mafia nk) are vanilla townie self preservation, or because he has a power role and wants to discourage a nk.

Hopefully this conclusion was his intent, which means at the end of the day he may have been telling the truth all along, guiding a Mafia NK to a BP target.

[Civil Scum]

Hell I’m BP too, what can it hurt to claim LOL

[Civil Scum]

Hell I’m BP too, what can it hurt to claim LOL

Your meant to claim your super powerful town pr that inst in the slightest way bullet proof and is macho too

You mean how I am a 2-shot Vig?

[Civil Scum]

I’m interested in Bellaphants answers here.

Also would like to hear from PC some of his reasoning for voting Bob.

If Naerys flips town I will be suspicious of Bob and Happy as I feel they dropped in finally to get town points for interrogating her.

Also just to be clear, I am claiming 2-shot Vig.

[Civil Scum]

Since you're here IAVH what do you think of the exchanges in 443?

Valid point from Save The Dragons, Naerys looks to get a lurker slot out which is ehh, I don't like it, it's nullscum for me, but the thing that was highlighted was

not your top suspect

or smth like that
that's the point that just makes it much worse to me
Save The Dragons gets townpoints, still has a bit to go
Naerys - townpoints
UNVOTE:

I actually think Naerys comes out of this exchange for the worse.

I also am not feeling good about her strong belief in RNs claim.

At any rate Happy, am I misreading this post? you seem to dislike Naerys for pushing the lurker spot instead of voting her top read, and then you give her townie points for it?

[Civil Scum]

In hindsight, the post below does not seem to line up very cleanly with Naerys’s later read of Random Nurse.

1-shot

Bulletproof Miller, to be exact.

Sounds legit.

Random Nurse

- Hard to read for me and claims to be a 1-shot Bulletproof Miller, his posts seem to lack a substance, honestly dont know what to think of him right now

Bazuf

- I need more posts from this player. Usage of those "..." in his last post is rubbing me a wrong way, might be a silly thing though.

Bellaphent

- I am inclined to believe Bella is town. Or, at the very least, is trying to be seen to be helpful.

bob3141

- The stuff you wrote about wagons makes sense, i have a town gut feeling there

Civil Scum

- As bob wrote, early wagon might indicate that Scum is a town. Interesting is, that he believe that Bob might be scum.

Greeting

- Too low number of posts to think anything, really.

Hu Tao

- Too little data from posts. Honestly feels like " i am talking, but i dont really put an effort"

iamveryhappy

- He feels as if he is trying to solve. Somehow it doesnt feel entirely good tho, but i cannot really say why. But in later posts feels more towny. Lets just say i have confused gut feelings about him for now.

KatyKimFanClub

- Yes, i admit i thought you wanted to push for Civil. Still feels weird to me.

Political Clout

- Clout vs Starfire interaction feels more like a misunderstanding to me, not as something scum indicative to either player. As of right now, Clout is a null read for me.

Save The Dragons

- Feels very suspicious. And those trolling posts arent really helping.

StarFire

- Same as Clout. Null to me right now.

[Civil Scum]

VOTE: Naerys


What are your current reads? As since your last read list you ahve largly been coasting with the only posts being dfeensive or setting up executions. As you said in post 214 greeting was null yet in your next post you say there must be one scum in Bazuf/ Greeting yet never say way you believe that. And in addition your make this claim when one of them is infact null to you at that point due to low posts

I know Naerys addressed this post but I wanted to voice agreement with Bobs characterization of her previous behavior here.

I also didn’t see much evolution in her reads over time and I’m not really sure why she is voting STD tbh.

[Civil Scum]

What are your current reads? As since your last read list you ahve largly been coasting with the only posts being dfeensive or setting up executions. As you said in post 214 greeting was null yet in your next post you say there must be one scum in Bazuf/ Greeting yet never say way you believe that. And in addition your make this claim when one of them is infact null to you at that point due to low posts

Honestly at this moment i mislike Save the dragons. It might be just me, but his posts seem so lacking. He claims he is trying to solve, but it doesnt really sit well with me.

I guess this is where she explains.

Oddly enough my read is the exact opposite, STDs self-proclaimed entitlement to the benefit of the doubt, especially early on, strikes me as very townie rather than scummy on a very basic psychological level.

[Civil Scum]

Noted.

If you are town generally the best thing to do is ask post game. As its really scummy as town should be focused on solving and not on one players view on them as just looks like survivalism. That comes from scum more than town

One could say that whenever a Town player pushes back on an accusation that could also be an instance of survivalism.

Scum want to survive, but can and do frequently bus, and oftentimes Town players will also try to fight to survive to get into endgame.

Certain an element of it when town but you often see it paired with them actively pushing there scum reads.

in this case they were trying to find out why a player scum read them that they now scum read.

Aswell as town reading all the players pushing them. Which kind if reminds me of my first scum game. In that game i made slip pretty early that end up nearly getting me killed but i resorted to town reading my main pushers in order to just look like scummy town.

in this case 90% of tehre posting is either defending or try to placate players pushing them

Again I agree with Bob, especially on the bolded part. I mean, you don’t need to refuse to answer any questions from someone because you have a scum read on them, but I would feel a little better about Naerys if there had been atleast a tinge of that sense in her STD interactions that she was dealing with a possible scum.

[Civil Scum]

Sorry to keep posting like this but ya know, smartphone.

I also don’t like this post.

If i were scum, i would try to either avoid or lash against Random´s probing.
And here i am, trying to answear them all as well as i can.
Might be utterly unbelieveable at this point but not giving up yet.
Just trying to say that no matter what you say, the truth is only one.

Keep

at it.

I agree Naerys has seemed very levelheaded and calm in the given circumstances, but I don’t like that she pointed this out as a defense.

[Civil Scum]

Also, I absolutely dislike almost all of

Civil Scum

’s reads in this game, but sadly I do not know if he’s scum or just confused town.

I mean the tone sounds alright, but the content just does not click with me.

Really Greeting, no read on me at all eh?

[Civil Scum]

That last post is a little funny coming from you this game Greeting…

I don’t have to write paragraphs with every post. I can just get straight to the point.
If you need to use your post count as an argument to prove that you are contributing to the game (346) then something’s off.

I’m also failing to come up with many points you’ve gotten straight too…

[Civil Scum]

Sorry to keep posting like this but ya know, smartphone.

I also don’t like this post.

If i were scum, i would try to either avoid or lash against Random´s probing.
And here i am, trying to answear them all as well as i can.
Might be utterly unbelieveable at this point but not giving up yet.
Just trying to say that no matter what you say, the truth is only one.

Keep

at it.

I agree Naerys has seemed very levelheaded and calm in the given circumstances, but I don’t like that she pointed this out as a defense.

In my opinion that is there best post. Seems genuine

Could be coached though?

[Civil Scum]

Naerys since there is more than one scum in 13p, even if they are still null which of your null reads do you think your leaning more towards scum than town

Another hard agree here, being unreadable isn’t scummy.
Hu Tao. Others in the null reads have atleast few townie points in my mind. It’s more of Hu being unreadable to me, but if i had to really pick another scum, it would be Hu.

So being unreadable is scummy?

[Civil Scum]

Hmm my text didn’t follow the quote.

I agree with Hu Tao here, being unreadable is not scummy.

[Civil Scum]

ugh i left my laptop charger so now i have to phone post. you guys better cherish every post i make before Thursday night

Don’t worry about it if it’s too much trouble, everyone here apparently loves lurkers LOL

[Civil Scum]

That last post is a little funny coming from you this game Greeting…

Glad someone else sees it. I think greetings could be scum tbh. He sees people say my name as a potential vote and he votes me

More agreement. Would like to hear clear case on Hu Tao.

[Civil Scum]

Why can't they be new scum

Because they seem to be giving their best and I can see the reasons behind the reads, even if I disagree with them. New scum usually goes for stuff that doesn't make sense in my experience

I think with Day Talk, a lot of concepts about what newbie scum can and can’t accomplish is outdated.

[Civil Scum]

Sorry to keep posting like this but ya know, smartphone.

I also don’t like this post.

If i were scum, i would try to either avoid or lash against Random´s probing.
And here i am, trying to answear them all as well as i can.
Might be utterly unbelieveable at this point but not giving up yet.
Just trying to say that no matter what you say, the truth is only one.

Keep

at it.

I agree Naerys has seemed very levelheaded and calm in the given circumstances, but I don’t like that she pointed this out as a defense.

In my opinion that is there best post. Seems genuine

Could be coached though?

That doesn't come off as a calculated post. Seems like emotion of someone trying their best when it's not enough.

I can kind of agree on some level, but there’s too much else with her that ain’t jiving with me.

[Civil Scum]

Just wanted to clear this up. In post 595, my text ended up inside Naerys quote, misquoting her.

Naerys since there is more than one scum in 13p, even if they are still null which of your null reads do you think your leaning more towards scum than town

Another hard agree here, being unreadable isn’t scummy.

Hu Tao. Others in the null reads have atleast few townie points in my mind. It’s more of Hu being unreadable to me, but if i had to really pick another scum, it would be Hu.

So being unreadable is scummy?

[Civil Scum]

Happy, why are you voting Hu Tao, I don’t think it’s clear from your ISO?

[Civil Scum]

Random Nurse, It’s also not clear to me why you are voting for Hu Tao.

[Civil Scum]

Random Nurse, It’s also not clear to me why you are voting for Hu Tao.

I don't think he's voting me, but was inquiring on it before

You’re right, my mistake. But he has you high on his list and I didn’t see much explanation why.

[Civil Scum]

Happy, why are you voting Hu Tao, I don’t think it’s clear from your ISO?

iamveryhappy/iavh/worstmafiaplayerinthisgame please
I've done a readslist if you want to read. I put Hu Tao as someone to resolve. Read up.

I don’t think you said why though.

[Civil Scum]

Honestly on pure gut, I have a bad feeling about a Naerys elimination.

And Greeting… like damn, I just think he should be better than this as scum.

And Yimmy, my claim is true. If there’s anything anyone would like to know, I’m here for questioning.

I also expect RN to finally explain why they claimed BP. This question was brought up some time ago and hasn’t been answered.

[Civil Scum]

I want to hear it from the horses mouth.

UNVOTE: KKFC

You’re off the hook… for now

[Civil Scum]

Hey PC, you mind explaining why you’re voting for Bob before you run off?

Lotta people with unexplained votes, like sure I could trust your read blindly but surely there’s a better way…

[Civil Scum]

I shouldn’t have to remind everyone that it also helps town scum hunt if everyone provides more reasoning.

[Civil Scum]

Thanks for trying to catch up on the short time frame Yiimy, you’re the best.

[Civil Scum]

I’m pretty sure Starfire said she voted for you since you claimed scum.

How about we let Starfire answer questions directed at Starfire. What you are claiming here is your interpretation of what starfire said.

In thinking about the game a bit, I find it odd that PC was rather aggressive upfront with Starfire and snapping here about letting her defend herself, yet he never takes this tone with anyone else D-1.

It’s kind of an odd shift of gears, looks a little performative to me now.

[Civil Scum]

Also since you all are clamoring to know why I’d be claiming vig, I’ll tell ya.

Short answer is that I believe it increases my chance of surviving night 1.

Long answer is this is my first time being a vigilante and tbh, I’ve never really cared for the role. While the power trip is sort of nice, it’s too much power for any one person. I’m not as confident in my reads as I let on and I’d prefer my suspects reach a level of consensus among the other players.

That said, I had thought about laying low and bagging one of the more lurkish players, but everyone is contributing enough to my liking now.

If I had this gut feeling on Greeting and he were largely escaping suspicion, I would target him, but he is on people’s radars so.

I also had half a mind to test RNs BP claim, after all I wouldn’t want to get played like a fiddle…

If Naerys flipped scum, maybe I’d sort KKFC out.

Even Hu Tao might be buddying up to me a little…

And Starfire, PC, we’ll maybe sometimes you just have to take a shot in the dark…

And if people don’t feel the need to explain their vote, well that just irks me a bit.

In the end frankly I don’t think it matters. I’m on literally everyone’s town list and I feel like a prime NK target. So I’ve decided to ask point blank for a possible doc protect.

I see claiming as increasing my chances of survival basically. It opens the door to two additional avenues for survival, getting roleblocked while the scum PR hunt, or being left alone because all my reads are wrong.

Unfortunately I think I have to target someone N-1 in order to potentially draw a roleblock.

In the mean time I’m checking on Greetings meta and I’m going to be compiling a list of questions I’ve asked of people that haven’t been answered.

[Civil Scum]

Also it’s fine if no one believes my claim. There’s no reason for me to be doing this as scum.

[Civil Scum]

I disagree Bob, I’ve already laid out how claiming BP Miller is a perfect set up to fake claiming a PR.

[Civil Scum]

I mean you missed that he is claiming BP in your analysis.

Fos: Bob

for skimming.

[Civil Scum]

You’ve seen someone claim BP Miller?

[Civil Scum]

Nevermimd that. It’s not opinions at issue, it’s facts. The only reason to mention you’re BP rather than let Mafia waste a NK is self preservation.

Which makes it a good play for a PR. Which means it’s a good play for scum claiming PR.

[Civil Scum]

Hmmm, you seem to be much more detailed when on the defense compared to the attack…

[Civil Scum]

@Mod - Can we get a update on the deadline?

[Civil Scum]

KKFC - Incidentally, I do like a Greeting - Bellaphant scum pairing.

Hey PC, I’m currently reading a townie game of yours where you posted more in about the first 100 posts than you have in our whole game. What’s up with that?

[Civil Scum]

Don’t worry, if I get a good meta on you I’ll just dispense with the questions and vote. And ya know, other options…

[Civil Scum]

In doing some rereading, my general thinking is there are a lot of players in this game that simply have too little content to get any sort of read on.

[Civil Scum]

Happy you still haven’t explained why you are voting for Hu Tao. This marks the third time I’ve asked you this question.

You provided literally no reasoning for your vote.

[Civil Scum]

Can you please be more specific, this post doesn’t mean anything to me.

[Civil Scum]

I give up.

[Civil Scum]

So Greeting - I’m seeing you vote plenty as town in other games and name entire teams of possible scums on D1. So when I ask you why so reluctant this time to name names, why not just respond, well I got burned last time I jumped the gun?

When I see you lurk a bit and advocate for it, and ask why you didn’t engage in the policy lim discussion, why not answer something like ‘I didn’t feel like it’s productive to talk about policy or theory’.

When I ask why you are claiming your carelessness during RVS excuses your later reluctance and you claim I’m being contradictory to even point it out and you make no response, why not answer the question?

Incredibly antitown behavior if you ask me.

[Civil Scum]

Greeting, if you were eliminated this game D1, would you say that it was a bad elimination since you were obviously town?

If yes, I will vote for you

[Civil Scum]

@Mod I’m noticing your deadline counter is frozen.

[Civil Scum]

KKFC - it was meant to be a simple observation or humorous depending on one’s mood. Maybe catch up before you post.

That answer was coherent to you? You speak monosyllabic cryptic nonsense? Then by all means translate.

[Civil Scum]

Btw the mods deadline timer is wrong so I was wrong pushing you about deadlines earlier based on a vote count I’d seen.

[Civil Scum]

VOTE: Political Clout

[Civil Scum]

Can you please be more specific, this post doesn’t mean anything to me.

those were the reasons I'm voting.
still are.
it does if you read it not look at it.

Oh ok I see that’s why you are voting…. But it does nothing to explain your thought process behind the vote. I was hoping we could leave the word games in the earliest pages. Guess not.

[Civil Scum]

You described your motivations, but none of your reasoning. Unfortunately I can’t tell if you are trolling or if we are miscommunicating. Oh well.

[Civil Scum]

Who here is interested in voting Hu Tao currently?

me
I would switch to Naerys if you wanted me to

And why would your vote switching to Naerys be dependent on what *I* want?

While we’re here playing word games, maybe you’d care to address this gem. I presume the word “you” is similar in our languages.

[Civil Scum]

To me it looks like a slip, like oops we’re not in our PT slip. So which are you masons or scum?

Come to think of it BP Miller claim means 4 things for a scum:
1) Sets up a later fake PR claim
2) Explains why cop is getting a guilty result
3) Discourages a vigilante
4) Explains why you’re not getting NKd

Not a bad deal for a scum. Unfortunately there’s no way to test whether you two are scum or masons without offing one of you.

[Civil Scum]

I need to get some sleep and then reread a bit, but i dont really like Civil’s recent posts. Will elaborate later.

I welcome your input. But you’d have to be crazy to think I could be scum at this point.

I’m sure some of this appears anti-town but I assure you there is some method to my madness, although self preservation is a factor.

The simple fact is, if RN is telling the truth then there’s nothing to worry about.

[Civil Scum]

Well Happy it’s just that you went on to say that you doesn’t mean you…which is either a translation issue or a line from Ponty Pool.

[Civil Scum]

RN due for second pros oh no!

[Civil Scum]

*prod

[Civil Scum]

RN- Did you consider that it might be best to not mention your BP modifier?

[Civil Scum]

RN- Also you said you noticed something about a Naerys/STD back and forth but never said what.

actually i think naerys could be scum too

Why do u think so?

i don't really like your 214

Save The Dragons - Feels very suspicious. And those trolling posts arent really helping.

i don't really like your 214

I would be surprised if you did, tbh.

ok? i don't like the entire post, not just your terrible analysis of me

Can you specify that a bit? Like what exactly didnt you like?

like the "not enough data" "i guess they can be town" "these ... are annoying" is kind of performative and doesn't actually provide much analysis as to what you're thinking

why are you voting Bazuf

like you find me sus but would rather vote for someone who used too many ... because they're not here?

I voted Bazuf beceause i wanted to get some reaction from this player. Cannot be votes used in this way at this stage?

they can it's just weird they didn't seem like your top suspect

Hu Tao and Bob, what do you think of these exchanges?

I'm noticing something that one of them noticed.

[Civil Scum]

ohhhh you are the one playing word games. literally what is the difference between motivations and reasoning??

Perhaps you need to read the words instead of just looking at them?

[Civil Scum]

Like, I get that you also have strong reads on people and how the game should be played, and you're willing to stand by them, but I struggle to agree with so many of them. This is a large part of why I am townreading you in the first place but it's a really weird position.

I guess I should ask other people if they share this sentiment? Some things that come to mind are:

1) policying low activity players
2) scumreading Naerys for her poor English
3) conversation with Bob around lurking

You strike me as an extremely paranoid town player, and that's why I was rather motivated to defend Bazuf in this circumstance.

Point two is a misrepresentation of my early issue with Naerys for two reasons. First, I did not know at the time that she was ESL. Second, I scumread because it seemed like she squeezed superfluous words into a sentence in a possible effort to fake sincerity.

[Civil Scum]

I’m not scumreading you for it, actually I think being consistently paranoid is a town trait, especially since we’re going nowhere with a wagon as of yet. I was just using that example to point out that you seek mis-calibrated so far this game

Fair enough.

[Civil Scum]

Who here is interested in voting Hu Tao currently?

me
I would switch to Naerys if you wanted me to

And why would your vote switching to Naerys be dependent on what *I* want?

While we’re here playing word games, maybe you’d care to address this gem. I presume the word “you” is similar in our languages.

do you mean that you think happy or nurse made the slip

It looked like a slip from Happy and then a little cover up between the two after that.

[Civil Scum]

I questioned whether to point it out but I’m struggling to read either of them and it was super obvious anyways to anyone paying attention.

[Civil Scum]

I’m interested in Bellaphants answers here.

Also would like to hear from PC some of his reasoning for voting Bob.

If Naerys flips town I will be suspicious of Bob and Happy as I feel they dropped in finally to get town points for interrogating her.

Also just to be clear, I am claiming 2-shot Vig.

So is this a real vig claim. Also do you think the game even with the claimed bp and who knows unclaimed bp, would still only have one vig

You’ll have to rephrase this, I dont understand.

[Civil Scum]

Hey PC, you mind explaining why you’re voting for Bob before you run off?

Lotta people with unexplained votes, like sure I could trust your read blindly but surely there’s a better way…

I'm worried I have a bias against bob. Just his play in general pings me. It doesn't feel like bob is trying to solve the game his spat with naerys does not feel natural it just feels like they were piling on. I can go into more detail but it might be a playstyle difference.

Look like back peddling. Do you think im scum or not.

Town doesnt think that they might be bias they either dont notice or they change there read. They dont make excusses

I could only find one scum game of PC so this is hardly conclusive, but he is so far off his town meta this game it’s simply insane.

Coupled with one scum-claim too many is why I’m voting for him currently.

[Civil Scum]

I think we still have plenty of time, and I really feel like RN is dodging the BP question. Even the wiki states that it is considered ideal for town roles not to reveal BP modifiers.

As for Greeting, there’s a lot of things I find scummy about him , but it just doesn’t add up because he is a much more capable scum player than this imo.

The still think Naerys is very scummy but my read on PC is too solid.

[Civil Scum]

*I still think Naerys is very scummy…

[Civil Scum]

Yimmy - I honestly think you just don’t like my style. There’s no way I could possibly defend myself against someone who thinks every post of mine is “bad”.

[Civil Scum]

However, I will reiterate that you are left to explain why a scum who was a town read on everyone’s list took the risk of painting a target on themself in a game where BP modifiers are being claimed.

[Civil Scum]

[Civil Scum]

I didn’t spell it out the same way but yes I’ve said this before.

I guess it’s WIFOM on some level, but lots of things are.

Me claiming Vig doesn’t decrease my odds of protection imo and made available other avenues of survival. I also have other motives which I don’t think you’ll guess.

I’m really only engaging with you on this point because I like a couple other names on your scum list so I wanted to try to discourage your scum read of me.

[Civil Scum]

I suppose I’ve been trying to bus PC and Greeting as well?

[Civil Scum]

Hell I’m BP too, what can it hurt to claim LOL

Your meant to claim your super powerful town pr that inst in the slightest way bullet proof and is macho too

This post was another reason I claimed.

Bob seemed to be implying I was intending to claim, which shocked me a bit tbh. It made me wonder if I had given off vibes or had been obvious in some other way.

[Civil Scum]

Hu Tao- I was leaning town early on Starfire, but with little to go off since I really have no clue about her.

[Civil Scum]

Bob sounds a bit role-fishy doesn’t he?

[Civil Scum]

It appears I have rolled mafia this game! I bring to you my two collaborators naerys and hu tao I hope and ask politely you can bring yourself to vote them first before finally voting me.

VOTE: Hu Tao

Because in the scum pt they said they were going to bus me and I did not like that at all!

This post is aging like a fine wine. I mean, would a post like this break site rules if it was true and Naerys and Hu Tao didn’t approve it?

[Civil Scum]

Note only the bolded. Repeated instances of suggesting high levels of rereading, yet at the same time not feeling like saying much given the content of his posts and the low number thereof. Does not sit well at all with my read of his personality or typical playstyle.

The more I look at the interaction between me and Starfire

the more I think Starfire is scum might be confirmation bias on my part though. If Starfire was never serious about calling me jester then that means they wanted to vote me but didn't use the reason I provided that I'm scum which I think is a very good reason all things considered and came up with their own. If they are saying they never meant to call me jester then is their post a joke? Very weird joke to make then vote for someone. Or did Starfire just want to look town with their post? I still haven't heard anything explanation about their post yet either. What were they trying to say? Because I still don't fully understand their post tbh.

UNVOTE:

Liking Naerys for town, 214 and Political Clout for town 158 169. Seems to be a real attempt to sort me from PolClout, and rereading it looks like we had a bit of a misunderstanding. Nae bother if you don't believe just yet.

@PoliticalClout going to try this one last time. I thought you were trolling at first (shitposting, joking) because there's no other reason to be scum-claiming. Calling you Jester was an effort at sharing that joke while voting for you was trying to shift you out of trolling. This can be rightly criticized as inconsistent, I should have decided to banter or push you. Saw you as scum and kept the vote, re-evaluating it and don't think so anymore.

Bellaphant's gut reads still feel bad, but I'm not confident saying it's scummy. @Naerys, why is trying to be seen as useful a town read? Pretty sure everyone wants to be seen as useful either so they don't get mislimmed or as scum so they don't get found.

Random Nurse's claim is untestable, this is a spare lim if we have basically nothing. I don't like the bulletproof modifier

@Hu Tao, yes it's awkward to draw attention to the awkwardness of a player posting after they have been replaced, why does this make a Clout vote?

VOTE: HuTao

Not a huge fan of SaveTheDragons trolling, but I don't think its necessarily AI. Goes with Random Nurse as a spare lim if we don't get anything better.

Partner is up for the next 5 days, so I'll be trying to do one post per day (will definitely pick the pace up after she leaves Wednesday evening). See y'all tomorrow.

UNVOTE: Starfire

Okay I forgive

Also I have been rereading the game a lot but haven't been posting my thoughts.

and it's only like the first five pages I have no idea why. I am in this very weird place of thinking wether or not I should bring up stuff from page 1, but ultimately I go to like...why bother? It makes me feel like I am playing the game behind everyone else.

I've been thinking a lot on the fundamentals of mafia and this site and a bit partly of civil scums opening approach to the game of policy lim lurkers since people have been calling them town and for sum reasons that rubbed me the wrong way. Essentially Mr. Scum is boxing with shadows. And has announced that he would be boxing with these shadows openly. I've skimmed a few games of Mr. civil I don't recall them doing this in the first four games on this site. I also realized I was incredibly bored reading old games so I stopped. What I actually need to do is look at what civil has been doing and who they have been voting for. Are they actually playing the game or are they only appearing to be playing the game by voting and pushing someone who isn't here to defend themselves.

Also am I crazy or does Hu Taos opening stink of scum...or am I crazy??? Lol who even says only hi as their first post lmao.i really think I've maybe done that before. But I liked their post where they said boo! How funny would that be if Hu Tao flipped red this game. Maybe I'm just really paranoid like really really paranoid about everyone...forever.

Also I don't see nearys(????) Doing anything except like vibing(?) and I have no idea where they go.

@bellaphant hello again. I believe I won that game posthumously. I should have spoken more d2 it's a shame Chicago was tunneled on me. I should have figured it was you since you quietly moved your vote. How are you? Are you town this time? What do you think about bob13? I have a lot of thoughts about Bob. Finally do you think mods who employ wotm or wotc are seeking moral desert? To me once a game ends I let go of everything but if people are plotting like 14 year old villains writing people's names in there deathnote that's so weird and runs at cross purposes to the fundamentals of this site which by all accounts is the playing of games and by looking at the rules appears to be inclusivity if you ask I have a lot more to say. I digress. I should really look at activity counter statistics and see if the top poster is always town. Oops I digressed again. Let's talk about kkfc too you go first since I'm still rereading a lot. I don't want to take over the entire game with my looks and charisma and such good amazing thoughtful posts that I do but I am a narcissist and want everything to be about me y'know? Maybe we should talk about civil ape too...also are you using me to hide behind or to something entirely different?

I also keep going back to millers...they should claim in their first post in the game but I don't see rn doing that and if they are an x bulletproof why reveal their BP modifier. Smells like a fake claim. Smells very very dank. I think I will say I now tentatively maybe believe Mr nurse.

Hi

Boo! Scared?

feels like the typical shitpost I might do in a chat mafia game.
@PC I don't get your point.

After reading it for like idk 20 times

it just felt odd to me the first post. But I really liked the second post since I laughed. On balance I would put more equity in the first post though. Again as I said before I could be really crazy and really paranoid.

[Civil Scum]

ccan't out partners but can out self.

Great so if he flips scum that rules out two other people definitively. Sounds good to me.

[Civil Scum]

Does nobody really think that this is that strange.

Naerys upfront belief of RNs claim boils down to not thinking there is a Vig. However, I cannot really come up with reasons why someone would rule that out.

At the end of the day, it looks a little like “I believed him for no reason”.

1-shot

Bulletproof Miller, to be exact.

Sounds legit.

Thanks, I missed the earlier answer at first. Can you say why it seemed legit to you?

Also Yimmy, thanks for replacing, but is that even before the deadline?

Greeting, I guess my style is to bring as much evidence as I can muster against my suspects and see if I like their defense. Also I said you advocate for a lurkish strat as being smart, not that you necessarily lurk, although this game I feel it’s a valid accusation.

I dont think as scum he would claim to be bulletproof. Just the claim that he is miller made him safe from a night kill, well atleast the first one. Unless he is dangerous to the scum.

What about the threat of a vigilante kill?

I dont believe there is vigilante.

[Civil Scum]

When it comes to Bob, I had been obsessing about RN and his BP modifier a bit so maybe that tipped him off. But then a little bit later he acts like the BP modifier hasn’t factored into his thinking at all which seems unbelievable to me. I should have accused him of role fishing up front.

I’ve been suspicious of Naerys for a long time. Are you sure you’ve read the game?

[Civil Scum]

It’s super valid to say off the cuff you believe someone, even though at the bottom of your reasoning there’s nothing but a baseless assumption?

I can safely say I agree less with your reads so far among everyone, but whatever, PC is a good lim atleast we agree on that.

[Civil Scum]

Ok well I thought you meant Naerys, and we’re implying that going after several people is inconsistent for me or something.

Sorry if I’m coming off as rude. I can be a tad over defensive. I actually really appreciate you catching up, I’m just finding myself disagreeing a lot with you.

[Civil Scum]

It appears I have rolled mafia this game! I bring to you my two collaborators naerys and hu tao I hope and ask politely you can bring yourself to vote them first before finally voting me.

VOTE: Hu Tao

Because in the scum pt they said they were going to bus me and I did not like that at all!

This post is aging like a fine wine. I mean, would a post like this break site rules if it was true and Naerys and Hu Tao didn’t approve it?

How exactly is it aging like fine wine?

I wasn’t sure if this would be against the rules.

Even now, I’m not entirely sure that a Mod wouldn’t just allow game breaking behavior instead of just calling the game.

I’m pretty sure Hapy said this already but If you and Naerys agreed to allow this, is it still against site rules?

[Civil Scum]

I mean if PC had really outed his teammates.

[Civil Scum]

political clout is the new guy you are casing. sorry for the confusion. i have been reading the game. are you rude on purpose?

agreed on the rudeness part. civil scum thinks like half the player list is mafia. I wouldn't put much stake into what he says guy is off his rocker.

So you believe no one I’ve pressured is a scum?

[Civil Scum]

But It’ll be a very constructive discussion if PC flips scum.

[Civil Scum]

political clout is the new guy you are casing. sorry for the confusion. i have been reading the game. are you rude on purpose?

agreed on the rudeness part. civil scum thinks like half the player list is mafia. I wouldn't put much stake into what he says guy is off his rocker.

So you believe no one I’ve pressured is a scum?

You know… despite the fact you’re currently voting for someone who’s been in my top 3 for days?

[Civil Scum]

Dodged the question about voting for Greeting. Noted.

[Civil Scum]

RN omg, please answer.

RN- Did you consider that it might be best to not mention your BP modifier?

RN- Also you said you noticed something about a Naerys/STD back and forth but never said what.

actually i think naerys could be scum too

Why do u think so?

i don't really like your 214

Save The Dragons - Feels very suspicious. And those trolling posts arent really helping.

i don't really like your 214

I would be surprised if you did, tbh.

ok? i don't like the entire post, not just your terrible analysis of me

Can you specify that a bit? Like what exactly didnt you like?

like the "not enough data" "i guess they can be town" "these ... are annoying" is kind of performative and doesn't actually provide much analysis as to what you're thinking

why are you voting Bazuf

like you find me sus but would rather vote for someone who used too many ... because they're not here?

I voted Bazuf beceause i wanted to get some reaction from this player. Cannot be votes used in this way at this stage?

they can it's just weird they didn't seem like your top suspect

Hu Tao and Bob, what do you think of these exchanges?

I'm noticing something that one of them noticed.

[Civil Scum]

Dodged the question about voting for Greeting. Noted.

okay so vote greeting too? i don't get your point like at all because you're currently voting me. we can't all be your top scum reads y'know.

My point was fairly straightforward imo.

[Civil Scum]

Now that I’m voting for you, I’m off my rocker.

I wasn’t off my rocker with Greeting though.

I suppose I was off my rocker pushing KKFC for scummish behavior that you’ve literally warned him about.

Are there other times you’ve felt this or is it just all of a sudden?

[Civil Scum]

I’m sorry I set my phone down to take a leak… like are you serious right now?

[Civil Scum]

Atleast I’m getting you to post so that’s fun right.

[Civil Scum]

You really expect me to believe you are arguing in good faith right now? Interesting.

[Civil Scum]

Confirm Vote: Political Clout

As you were.

[Civil Scum]

But you’re so close to obsfucating how ridiculous your post was, perhaps if you just posted a few more times…

[Civil Scum]

RN- Did you consider that it might be best to not mention your BP modifier?

Doesn't matter. You are WAY too hung up on how you think Town must play. I would urge you to respect that Town players play the game differently: if they all played the same way it'd be A) boring and B) super-easy for Scum to mimic.

I hear what you saying, but I happen to think this particular question matters a lot.

[Civil Scum]

Care to be any more specific than that?

no

You mean it would suck if everyone played like this too right?