Mini Normal 2309 | Finished!

[bob3141]

VOTE: Hu Tao

They are right behind me

- fixed broken tag

[bob3141]

Boo! Scared?

Should i be, are you armed and dangerous

[bob3141]

Oh my! E-2 already?

Lack of resistance? Interesting!

VOTE: Unvote

The wagon just looks liek teh usual flash town wagon.

If a wagon gets like that in rvs it has great odds than random to be on town. Not somethign that overrules later play but were as the avaerage player starts with 3/13 odds. it skews there odds to between 1/13 and 2/13 of beign scum.

[bob3141]

Starfire, did you research the Jester role before or after post 85?

Didn't research jester at all, I just checked condemner after to check if it could be normal

Okay, it seemed like you might have contradicted yourself but it seems you are saying that you already knew before post 85 that the Jester role was not normal.

I’m not willing to give Naerys a pass at this time, I still think his wording is a bit scummy.

Bazuf is my next top suspect which I will go into shortly.

@Bob: Do you like lurking?

Have you heard of thing called work

[bob3141]

And yet you found the time within minutes of being poked…

Have you heard of thing of end of a work day serously. Are you suprised on friday i end up posting 6:15pm and not earlier?

[bob3141]

seems uptight

don't agree with their logic

Whether you agree with their logic or not. They are on first players to really start moving the game forward

[bob3141]

Feel like unvoting this early reduces any sort of reactions we can get from the early wagon.
Like at least make it hurt for Civil.

Whats the rush? We have 2 players that might get replaced anyway, so thats 2 players we havent been able to get to know yet.

Can you elaborate on what you mean in this comment? I'm not advocating to eliminate Civil this early, and it's unclear to me how you got that impression from me.

To me it seemed clear, there is still much of time to pressure anybody into reactions. I honestly have no idea what else to say

Did you think I was advocating for an elimination on Civil?

At that point yes, i did.

Just going to close the loop on this and chalk it up to my pretty abstract use of "hurt" here? My point was that I wanted a better reaction test on Civil by keeping the votes on him longer, something I mentioned in 107.

To keep the quote wall going

RVS flashwagons are not a good sourse of reaction reads. Most scum players would know they are something to strug off.

[bob3141]

You didnt continue the wall

[bob3141]

VOTE: Bellaphant

Somethimes you just have to throw a pebble

[bob3141]

What’s LAMIST?

I like playing the game but dislike lurkers and feel they are anti-town. I don’t think that’s inconsistent.

Thanks STD, that was very helpful.

Lukers are anti-town but it is to early to call players lukers. In 2 -4 days time maybe but at the moment were just startings the game and level content at this stage is easily more dictated by the time zone of player and the time the game started. For instance this is the 2nd day whilst for others it might be the 3rd

[bob3141]

Hello, haven't read anything. Just popping in to say I'm actually here.

This is incredibly awkward.

I think you saying it's awkward is awkward.

VOTE: Clout

This isn't even trying to solve the game. Sad

Feels like shade.

[bob3141]

Hello, haven't read anything. Just popping in to say I'm actually here.

This is incredibly awkward.

I think you saying it's awkward is awkward.

VOTE: Clout

This isn't even trying to solve the game. Sad

Feels like shade.

realy bad post there
it does nothing to help the game, whatever it does is to ping PC to their annoyance (probably) while having absolitely no substance
also
This isn't even trying to solve the game. Sad
so
I'm going to ask you
how is your stance on PC right now?

Scum side of nill. Ive see players try throwing they arnt solving at Hu allot and it is a weak attack to behonest and just shades what solve they do come out with.

Also different players solve games in different ways and my way has always had a very high solve rate (ofcourse that doesnt mean town wins just that by day 4 ive normaly got a correct solve 90% of teh time)

The key is to work if a solving mind is working behind it.

You post of in comparision isnt shade but constructive. Even if for some of your post you have parrotted clout so at the moment i would edge you towards town side of null

[bob3141]

I prob do exaggerate a bit but a good many times i solve when im in dead thread and town goes on to lose. Where as my solve before i died might of been wrong only spotting 1-2 of the scum.

[bob3141]

ehh that's fine
II'd probably.like you to answer my question for now

That the player either hasnt really started playing or isnt really posting there solving. Always the wrong approach to take to assume a player isnt solving. If you cant see there solving town players usualy do what your doing and ask questions.

Were as PC just cast Shade. Doesnt preclude them from being town but is on balance something scum are more likely to do as it shines a bad light while also not creating an opportunity to sort them.

[bob3141]

Not forgetting this resposne by PC was in reaction to a vote on them. Where at this stage votes need to eb cast after rvs with little info in order to actualy start tryignto solve

[bob3141]

rereading the thread some of Civil Scum's posts strike me as openwolfy - it's improved over the course of this game
keeping the attention on Civil Scum - I'd like to point out their wagon. Formed as fast as it collapsed, currently only one vote on them. Feels like a scum-motivated wagon. As such, I'm going to chuck Civil Scum in the town bin for a bit and probably for the entirety of d1, looking at Civil's posts they look reasonable from a town pov
the thing I'm slightly concerned with is their thing with the Mafia Scum title. Why do they think it brings unnecessary attention hmmm
but the thing is it was d1, leaving that in the back of my thoughts
Could someone please provide me with a votecount when they were on E-2? That would be very useful. I blame kindle.
(I mean still better than phone lol)

slight change to my organisation of post

wagonomics sort of not conclusively but inidicated that Civil is town. When two parties naturaly act differently (informed and uninformed) It chnages the likely hood of where a flash wagon would land on in RVS. Town dont know who is scum were as scum do. And they these likely to join in on rvs flash wagon if its on a buddy. If raw odds are 3/13 then it prob drops them down a bit. This though generaly gets overruled by later developments though (or cancelled out)

But mostly importantly that civil/Greeting is unlikely to s/s association as most players would be wanting to generate associations that early if they were both scum.

[bob3141]

Seriously though Greetings, why would you do that when we still have players that haven’t even confirmed yet?

It was an RVS vote. I like your username.

UNVOTE: Civil Scum

Feel like unvoting this early reduces any sort of reactions we can get from the early wagon.
Like at least make it hurt for Civil.

No, we do not want an RVS vote to reach E-1, unless there is a legitimate reason to suspect that player.

Well.. is there a reason why we should make it hurt for

Civil Scum

?

So your out of RVS now. As the game stands where do you feel your actual vote would be most placed. Even if you strongest reads is null scum.

[bob3141]

Naerys at the moment you have not even cast a RVS vote. Who you think is mostly likly scum and who would you vote if you were to cast a vote?

Also are there any playesr you town read so far?

[bob3141]

Oddly enough I am leaning town for STD since I read atleast one of his games as scum wherein he actually seemed to be trying.

Oddly this is very different than town!StD meta, at least from the one game I have played with him. Can you link the scum!StD game please?

The conway game was one of dragons

[bob3141]

scum games

[bob3141]

ehh that's fine
II'd probably.like you to answer my question for now

That the player either hasnt really started playing or isnt really posting there solving.

Always the wrong approach to take to assume a player isnt solving.

If you cant see their solving town players usualy do what you’re doing and ask questions.

Were as PC just cast Shade. Doesnt preclude them from being town but is on balance something scum are more likely to do as it shines a bad light while also not creating an opportunity to sort them.

The bolded sentence I flatly disagree with. You should assume people are scum and are not trying to solve imo.

As for the rest of this, I still can’t figure out why anybody thought PC was casting shade.

I strongly disagree with you as thats a way to make awful reads. If you go down rout of confirmation bias you simply end up death tunneling players even though your reads are flawed. To often ive seen players chasing other because of teh silly your not solving arguement and they have infact already solved the game. They get killed in elo and obvous scum win the game

[bob3141]

See if you dont look at game trying to see if they are solving you miss if they town trying to solve but not strongly showing or scum actual just trying to look like they are solving. Thats why quick meta dives are important.

An example of teh latter is what naerys post appears like. I response to pord on there reads rather than comign out with one or two like greating. They come out with read list that made to look like reads but is actualy mostly game recap. e.g. nurses claim but no actual read on what this means. This response is also deviation from there 3 completed town games.

bazuf read is also very bad as it has them saying they are suspicous but also could be wrong. First says to few posts to get read, then say last post was bad but not why and then bit of i could be wrong. But they never say what they could be wrong on as well. Which deviates from there newbie game town meta which at least shows some vote reason and these over explanation.


And for the amount wrtiten most of it boils down to null and town read but with no explanation.

odds very good that nearys is new scum

[bob3141]

oh I refer to flash wagon as a wagon motivated by town players that happens quickly. It can land on scum or town but who it lands has an effect how scum join in so it tends to skew results.

[bob3141]

Well you didn’t answer my questions and the I find comprehending some of your writing to be quite difficult.

That said, you may be making a few good points about Naerys which I need to consider.

I ask question as i follow lines of enquiry but mostly at this i ask question towards teh players im having a first pass at sorting. Some players i sort in different manner too

[bob3141]

I have no idea whether to resurrect my conversation with hu tao or not difficult to say all things considered like I get he is getting ahem "VIBES" or whatever but you have to talk us through those vibes what about it where have you seen it before what about it being awkward is likely to come from scum I see no thought process or thought progression where I can say hmm this is clearly town posting and is hu tao town thinking townie thoughts Hu Tao admita later own they're not even paying attention to the game of who replaced whom very concerning, I am concern. I have some thoughts on bobby who is trying to crawl inside of hu tao which is super weird like the space y'know is their room for activities y'know? If anything it just makes me paranoid that Bobbo is trying to get me and hu tao to fight but nay I shan't hu taos avatar is too adorable. Also bobster said a lot of things I disagree with but I balance the weight of starting an irrelevant conversation and trying to talk to Bob who just sounds like they are talking at people. Bob might be deserving of a vote...

Civil ape is town. I think happy can be town too. I digress. My point is that Hu Tao is on balance null and boberino is a scum lean. I've completely forgotten to respond to Starfire lol.

To be honest if i was scum and you two were town i would be doing that but you wouldnt notice. So that is healthy level of paranoia


What i do is throw pebbles and see what ripples form. That how i read games. I call out your shade of hu tao and see what happens (pebble) to see if its town casting shade or scum throwing shade. Both do it for different reasons and that can show in how they respond. Now for small post like that scum is more likely to ignor it then try and defend themeselves. So leaning a bit towards town for you for now

[bob3141]

An example of teh latter is what naerys post appears like. I response to pord on there reads rather than comign out with one or two like greating. They come out with read list that made to look like reads but is actualy mostly game recap. e.g. nurses claim but no actual read on what this means. This response is also deviation from there 3 completed town games.

You might be right about that. My previous games were like 2-3 years ago and honestly, i believe i kinda made stuff worse for the town in atleast one of them. I dont want to mess up things, at this point its hard to come up with more than i already have.

If you are town then the best thing is to work out who your unsure on like null slots and either ask them questions or push them. As it often much easier to get a read on a player when they are reacting to you then others

[bob3141]

i also am trying to solve so calling me out for just trolling is being disingenuous

just cuz i play different doesn't mean i'm not trying. i already made a small case for civil scum being scum

How is your solving going so far, do you have any town or scum reads so far?

[bob3141]

Bella my vote on you was just bait but no one has taken it

[bob3141]

To see if anyone would jump onto you after me.

[bob3141]

UNVOTE:

[bob3141]

who know but it would have been something analysis. I use vote count as the frame for my solves so if votes dont move it hard to do game theory.

Would it have triggered a town flash wagon. Would some jumped on think it was lhf ect

[bob3141]

@ Hu Tao, okay but why is it *scummy* to post about it? This currently reads like "PoliticalClout is cringe, so I'll vote for him."

As of right now, i believe atleast 1 scum is lurking. Bazuf/ Greeting are rather unreadable thanks to low posts and i am starting to believe atleast one of them is a scum.

I really don't like this, this seems way too confident and somewhat informed. Why are scum lurking, why are Bazuf/Greeting more likely than anyone else with 'low posts'? I like KityKimFanClub's 226

Putting Naerys, Hu Tao, and Bellaphant toward the scum side of things right now.

Apologies for the low content posting, will be back within a few days, currently spending time with my partner while she is up. Hopefully not going to miss a day again, but just in case.

Mod, requesting VLA until Wednesday 2200 UTC +1

what you think points to Naerys being informed rather than just overconfient on read. As its a common read to claim that they think one of 2 players is scum. Even if often its wrong

[bob3141]

Ah yes. I forgot. Saying hi to people is scummy. I forget that I need to give into the social norm on this site to post forced jokes in the beginning of the game. My apologies.

What an interesting reaction. Can you expand on it?

Why do you find it an interestign reaction?

Also thats reaction is town AI for Hu Tao

[bob3141]

actually i think naerys could be scum too

Why do u think so?

i don't really like your 214

Save The Dragons - Feels very suspicious. And those trolling posts arent really helping.

i don't really like your 214

I would be surprised if you did, tbh.

ok? i don't like the entire post, not just your terrible analysis of me

Can you specify that a bit? Like what exactly didnt you like?

like the "not enough data" "i guess they can be town" "these ... are annoying" is kind of performative and doesn't actually provide much analysis as to what you're thinking

why are you voting Bazuf

like you find me sus but would rather vote for someone who used too many ... because they're not here?

I voted Bazuf beceause i wanted to get some reaction from this player. Cannot be votes used in this way at this stage?

they can it's just weird they didn't seem like your top suspect

Hu Tao and Bob, what do you think of these exchanges?

I'm noticing something that one of them noticed.

Looks overly defensive from Naerys. First impression is s/t

[bob3141]

VOTE: Naerys


What are your current reads? As since your last read list you ahve largly been coasting with the only posts being dfeensive or setting up executions. As you said in post 214 greeting was null yet in your next post you say there must be one scum in Bazuf/ Greeting yet never say way you believe that. And in addition your make this claim when one of them is infact null to you at that point due to low posts

[bob3141]

actually i think naerys could be scum too

Why do u think so?

i don't really like your 214

Save The Dragons - Feels very suspicious. And those trolling posts arent really helping.

i don't really like your 214

I would be surprised if you did, tbh.

ok? i don't like the entire post, not just your terrible analysis of me

Can you specify that a bit? Like what exactly didnt you like?

like the "not enough data" "i guess they can be town" "these ... are annoying" is kind of performative and doesn't actually provide much analysis as to what you're thinking

why are you voting Bazuf

like you find me sus but would rather vote for someone who used too many ... because they're not here?

I voted Bazuf beceause i wanted to get some reaction from this player. Cannot be votes used in this way at this stage?

they can it's just weird they didn't seem like your top suspect

Hu Tao and Bob, what do you think of these exchanges?

I'm noticing something that one of them noticed.

Looks overly defensive from Naerys. First impression is s/t

I was jus trying to find out what i am doing wrong, if somebody is getting scum vibes from me.

If you are town generaly the best thing to do is ask post game. As its really scummy as town should be focused on solving and not on one players view on them as just looks liek survivalism. That comes from scum more than town

[bob3141]

Naerys since there is more than one scum in 13p, even if they are still null which of your null reads do you think your leaning more towards scum than town

[bob3141]

If you are town generally the best thing to do is ask post game. As its really scummy as town should be focused on solving and not on one players view on them as just looks like survivalism. That comes from scum more than town

One could say that whenever a Town player pushes back on an accusation that could also be an instance of survivalism.

Scum want to survive, but can and do frequently bus, and oftentimes Town players will also try to fight to survive to get into endgame.

Certain an element of it when town but you often see it paired with them actively pushing there scum reads. in this case they were trying to find out why a player scum read them that they now scum read.

Aswell as town reading all the players pushing them. Which kind if reminds me of my first scum game. In that game i made slip pretty early that end up nearly getting me killed but i resorted to town reading my main pushers in order to just look like scummy town.

in this case 90% of tehre posting is either defending or try to placate players pushing them

[bob3141]

Bob, what's your Scum game like again?

*speaks in Peter Stormare's Lucifer (Constantine) voice*

"Bob? Boooooob? It's RUDE to ignore my question."

Well at the moment i really dont know as my last completed scum game was 2-4 years ago. In general i think im pretty easy to spot as scum, not so much due to my scum play but its prob hard for me to look overly different from my town game.


To sum up my scum play "Close, but No Cigar"

[bob3141]

missed teh not in that sentance "to not look overly"

[bob3141]

Naerys since there is more than one scum in 13p, even if they are still null which of your null reads do you think your leaning more towards scum than town

Hu Tao. Others in the null reads have atleast few townie points in my mind. Its more of Hu being unreadable to me, but if i had to really pick another scum, it would be Hu.

So what about Hu Tao leads you to this

[bob3141]

What do you think about my exchange with Hu Tao?

Hu seems rather defensive to me. I have to admit i barely read that exchange but now looking back at it Hu looks suspicious to me.

What about thier post makes you feel is defensive and since you think they could be scum. What do you think of thier pushes

[bob3141]

As it is now it just looks like Naerys.

Your being pushed by nurse so you town read nurse as scum. as your finding it hard to respond so you fidn it easier to look like scummy town. And then you then pick there scum reads as your scum reads. Which is actualy something that can work quite well when you backed into a corner

[bob3141]

I cant paint

[bob3141]

If i were scum, i would try to either avoid or lash against Random´s probing.
And here i am, trying to answear them all as well as i can.
Might be utterly unbelieveable at this point but not giving up yet.
Just trying to say that no matter what you say, the truth is only one.

Keep

at it.

which is all wifom

Mind elaborating on your Hu read as it just looks convient that you pick the other push of the main player pushing you.

You have claimed they look defensive but why?

[bob3141]

If i were scum, i would try to either avoid or lash against Random´s probing.
And here i am, trying to answear them all as well as i can.
Might be utterly unbelieveable at this point but not giving up yet.
Just trying to say that no matter what you say, the truth is only one.

Keep

at it.

which is all wifom

Mind elaborating on your Hu read as it just looks convient that you pick the other push of the main player pushing you.

You have claimed they look defensive but why?

Why do you think he could be scum. You were both recently scum together, see any similarities?

Feels a bit like an attempt to defend a scum buddy.

I don't get it? Why just ask, what's the point?

I believe Hu is trying here to avert Random´s attempt to get some reaction From Save the Dragons.

What about it made you think Hu was defending a scum buddy? Instead of just town defending a town read?

[bob3141]

Hell I’m BP too, what can it hurt to claim LOL

Your meant to claim your super powerful town pr that inst in the slightest way bullet proof and is macho too

[bob3141]

Oh, you already responded. Sorry.

Thanks, I missed the earlier answer at first. Can you say why it seemed legit to you?

Also Yimmy, thanks for replacing, but is that even before the deadline?

Greeting, I guess my style is to bring as much evidence as I can muster against my suspects and see if I like their defense. Also I said you advocate for a lurkish strat as being smart, not that you necessarily lurk, although this game I feel it’s a valid accusation.

I dont think as scum he would claim to be bulletproof. Just the claim that he is miller made him safe from a night kill, well atleast the first one. Unless he is dangerous to the scum.

Why would it make him safe from a night kill in your opinion?

Since miller gives non town result when investigated (unless there is a role cop), its advantageous for scum to keep them alive untill late game and then to try paint that miller as a scum. It can raise amount of distrust among the town players.

Its really a mixed bag but is generally not a great idea to fake claim miller as scum early on. As it ties your hands with fake claiming, which is very useful tool to try and surive e-1. Where as miller would be treated less favourably than vt claim at that point.

[bob3141]

I disagree Bob, I’ve already laid out how claiming BP Miller is a perfect set up to fake claiming a PR.

I mean you missed that he is claiming BP in your analysis.

Fos: Bob

for skimming.

Then its a difference of opinion. When some claims miller i disregard it and deal with the slot based on play rather than the claim.

[bob3141]

@ Hu Tao, okay but why is it *scummy* to post about it? This currently reads like "PoliticalClout is cringe, so I'll vote for him."

As of right now, i believe atleast 1 scum is lurking. Bazuf/ Greeting are rather unreadable thanks to low posts and i am starting to believe atleast one of them is a scum.

I really don't like this, this seems way too confident and somewhat informed. Why are scum lurking, why are Bazuf/Greeting more likely than anyone else with 'low posts'? I like KityKimFanClub's 226

Putting Naerys, Hu Tao, and Bellaphant toward the scum side of things right now.

Apologies for the low content posting, will be back within a few days, currently spending time with my partner while she is up. Hopefully not going to miss a day again, but just in case.

Mod, requesting VLA until Wednesday 2200 UTC +1

Before you VLA you were scum reading Naeyrs, Hu Tao and Bella. What is your read on them developed over the last few days ?

[bob3141]

Hey PC, you mind explaining why you’re voting for Bob before you run off?

Lotta people with unexplained votes, like sure I could trust your read blindly but surely there’s a better way…

I'm worried I have a bias against bob. Just his play in general pings me. It doesn't feel like bob is trying to solve the game his spat with naerys does not feel natural it just feels like they were piling on. I can go into more detail but it might be a playstyle difference.

Look like back peddling. Do you think im scum or not.

Town doesnt think that they might be bias they either dont notice or they change there read. They dont make excusses

[bob3141]

Who here is interested in voting Hu Tao currently?

me
I would switch to Naerys if you wanted me to

And why would your vote switching to Naerys be dependent on what *I* want?

While we’re here playing word games, maybe you’d care to address this gem. I presume the word “you” is similar in our languages.

do you mean that you think happy or nurse made the slip

[bob3141]

I’m interested in Bellaphants answers here.

Also would like to hear from PC some of his reasoning for voting Bob.

If Naerys flips town I will be suspicious of Bob and Happy as I feel they dropped in finally to get town points for interrogating her.

Also just to be clear, I am claiming 2-shot Vig.

So is this a real vig claim. Also do you think the game even with the claimed bp and who knows unclaimed bp, would still only have one vig

[bob3141]

IAVH, KKFC, Hu Tao, which three players do you currently suspect the most and why?

Naerys - currently bottom of my readslist. Save The Dragons v Naerys made it worse imo. would it be s/s? probably not but this slot probably gives us the most info today other than resolving to flipping each of our sussy PR claims which I don't want to.
I'll give an updated version of readslist tmr
Starfire - second lowest, feels like a slot I have to resolve before d3, I'll work on pushing em d2. wish I coulda say more. I can't
Save The Dragons - takes great amount of work to get them to do stuff when they don't want to. Apparently needs to go to post 800 to do something. Did something around post 500 after a trollish start and then coasted with the excuse of post 800.
shoutout to Hu Tao for actually doing something after I told them to woo, looks townier immediately
VOTE: Naerys

Pretty sure dragon is town here. Played the last 2 games vs scum drgaon and he feels different in this game

[bob3141]

Not too sure on Naerys as they have been scummy but with pressure i havnt really noticed the developments i would expect. If they are scum then their scummyness would be due to being new. In that situation i would expect either their partners to bus them or give them hints the pt. Ive not noticed any sign of this so on balance for im leaning null

UNVOTE:

[bob3141]

Hey PC, you mind explaining why you’re voting for Bob before you run off?

Lotta people with unexplained votes, like sure I could trust your read blindly but surely there’s a better way…

I'm worried I have a bias against bob. Just his play in general pings me. It doesn't feel like bob is trying to solve the game his spat with naerys does not feel natural it just feels like they were piling on. I can go into more detail but it might be a playstyle difference.

Look like back peddling. Do you think im scum or not.

Town doesnt think that they might be bias they either dont notice or they change there read. They dont make excusses

I could only find one scum game of PC so this is hardly conclusive, but he is so far off his town meta this game it’s simply insane.

Coupled with one scum-claim too many is why I’m voting for him currently.

Ive not liked how he is scum reading Naerys yet has only one direct interaction with them and even that was in response to naerys question. So there scum read there doesnt look genuine as i cant see any attempt from them to sort that slot.

[bob3141]

yimmy you've missed me in your read list

[bob3141]

However, I will reiterate that you are left to explain why a scum who was a town read on everyone’s list took the risk of painting a target on themself in a game where BP modifiers are being claimed.

maybe you like to live life dangerously

[bob3141]

Hell I’m BP too, what can it hurt to claim LOL

Your meant to claim your super powerful town pr that inst in the slightest way bullet proof and is macho too

This post was another reason I claimed.

Bob seemed to be implying I was intending to claim, which shocked me a bit tbh. It made me wonder if I had given off vibes or had been obvious in some other way.

Na was just joking around.

[bob3141]

I

f i were scum, i would try to either avoid or lash against Random´s probing.

A

nd here i am, trying to answear them all as well as i can.

M

ight be utterly unbelieveable at this point but not giving up yet.

J

ust trying to say that no matter what you say, the truth is only one.

K

eep

at it.

I am a jailkeeper. 2-Shot Complex Jailkeeper.

You shouldnt of claimed as you were no where near execution. Only really claim if your at e-1 or your the only wagon going and your under 12 hours to deadline

[bob3141]

And i was becoming rather frustrated.I tried to show that i am town, while managing to sink in some reads.

You were, why do you think i unvoted. Scummy but thats often expected from someone thats only played a few mafia games

How games work is players have read and find ways to sort. Sometimes it comes from pressure from a wagon. Other times it comes from looking at who then jumps on the wagons or trys to align with them.

[bob3141]

In the case a bit of pressure on you to see how you react and the after that reaction see who aligns but never realy has a justification behidn there read. In this case PC who went after LnHF but never actualy tried to sort you


so odds are very high that PC is scum

[bob3141]

crumbing JK doesn't mean town

But is a self resolving slot now as scum cant afford to leave a JK alive. Although 2 shot JK is a role scum can get i dont think scum claims like this. As a scum player would be flailing in their PT first and would be reassured by their partners. Even new players would prob ask their partners first

[bob3141]

And yet i normaly always solve the game

Saying im not solving is just weak sause.

VOTE: Political Clout

[bob3141]

Although I do think Naerys could be an interesting lim.

When I read her posts I kind of get the sense that she's not truly "attuned," as if she's posting in order to look like she's Town. I boil it down to gut pings.

VOTE: Naerys

I think your over reading the situation as i dont think naerys would be fully attuned to how town shoudl look like as town. They have 3 rook games but those were all a while ago

[bob3141]

And yet i normaly always solve the game

Saying im not solving is just weak sause.

VOTE: Political Clout

Notice now that I push boberino does he actually vote. This is the same.logic he is using that he defended hi tao with. If it was deserving of a vote now why wasn't it deserving of a vote them? Bob-o is clearly lashing out here since I dared attack his slot.

Lol

So what your saying is that you saw me calling you scum with it being supper obvous i was about to Vote my scum read. And you tried to get in weak sause argument before it was to late.

You havnt tried to sort any one so far this game. Not even naerys who is suppost to be you second scum read and was one of the two leading wagons at the point of your first so called "readlist".

[bob3141]

@yimmy I don't know what the complex is. What does it mean?

link with all normal roles and modifiers

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Normal_Game

[bob3141]

well atleast what was normal september 2022

[bob3141]

I meant given that there may be a cop about, is it unbelievable that scum Naerys would bread crumb so early in her wagon?

What I’m trying to say is, could there be a way for them to rule out there being a cop and a JK, cause if not then it is a risky claim and unlikely to be scum indicative.

since town is unlikely to have 2 direct protectives it could be fishing for a counter claim if it came from pov rather than town. Although its still a bit early for such gambits so i would still doubt even if they were scum that it would have been planned.

[bob3141]

Well I’m out of time today.
So far I’m thinking PC-Naerys-Bellaphant.

Bob what’s “pov”?

point of view

[bob3141]

i think they are on VLA. there last post said somethign about till wednesday and i assume they meant the 16th as they woldnt have need a vla for last wednesday

[bob3141]

If you were one of the top elimination targets in D-1 as a scum, would you ever consider claiming JK and claim a strong read on a townie based on a lack of vigilantes, such that you would be in essence fishing for two counter claims at once?

Only if I were one.
jk is not an easy role to fakeclaim, bear that in mind

Why is it hard to fake claim?

Why is it hard to fake claim?

You’re being a roleblocker AND a doc

Yep easier for scum just to claim something like doc/bg, so if naerys was scum it would far more likely that it would be a true claim. And if the player was fishing for roles before their flip then there are better claims too. So either naerys is scum 2 shot jk or rookie town 2 shot jk

[bob3141]

Hello, I'm here - is there anything I should know? Or are you willing to wait until I read all 46 pages? UNVOTE:

Spoiler:

whats is the airspeed velocity of unladen swallow?

[bob3141]

being a jailkeeper fakeclaim is 100% harder than being a cop/doc/bg fakeclaim
now
jk does both doc and rb
so basically you are fucked when a investigative pr claims and tells you to rb them to test if you are real, you get turboed if
1. they die
2. they don't get a NO RESULT (action failed)
while cop is easier because you can pull NOT MAFIA/MAFIA inspects out of your ass
doc=I don't care I'm literally going to put I docced this n1 docced that n2 and because doc doesn't know if action failed it's p easy to fakeclaim
tbh I have never seen a mafia jk in my mafia career, not even in closed setups

Ive seen 2 to 3 and in one of those games i was the 2 shot jail keeper. They tend to be just flavoured scum roleblockers unless town has somethign like role cop or vigs

[bob3141]

Only time ive seen town JK they have normaly been ungated though. But with so many bp claims its hard to tell if a town jk would be gated or not.

[bob3141]

Cant see why not. in the game i was scum 2s jk the town had rolecop tracker and the second i think it was just flavour. Ive also seen scum doc in vig games so i suppose it could be a weakened scum doc.

[bob3141]

I don’t think I should name my shot today or D-2.

don't like this post
I'd think town would benefit from you telling us your shotlist, PLUS it's p scummy to me that you don't want to share a shot as t!vig
or are you planning on not shooting at all?

If i was an outed vig i prob wouldnt overly share. Although in the game i was vig i was nk before i could claim but at most i would of only said who i definitely wouldnt shot.

[bob3141]

Its interesting that the lead wagons have been pretty static for the last 3-4 days and neither of them have hit the 4 vote mark. Its very much a strong signs that we have entirely missed the mark and that starfire, pc and bella are all town.

as if scum was one of those players they would have doen something to break the deadlock

[bob3141]

still doesnt change the dynamic as it resolves around the other 11 players. if one was scum then there is still 2 scum available to cause a skew in the wagons. Doesnt prevent one being scum but does make it more likely as more often than not scum would try and skew the lead wagin to be away from thier partner

[bob3141]

still doesnt change the dynamic as it resolves around the other 11 players. if one was scum then there is still 2 scum available to cause a skew in the wagons. Doesnt prevent one being scum but does make it more likely as more often than not scum would try and skew the lead wagin to be away from thier partner

or all three are scum

or bella and starfire and looker are scum

or one of them are scum anyway

or

All 3 of those examples would create movement of some sort. When there is no movement and one is scum then the most likely explanation is that the lead ones are town and the trailing one is the scum player.

[bob3141]

So in the cases of little movement it can be due to vanity voting as scum are playing for flash execution at deadline. Town players have tendancy to creat deadlocks while scum have the tendancy to break deadlocks. (not about order of votes) all due to difference in informed and uninformed

[bob3141]

Yimmy you havent cast a single vote so far. So who do you have as town, nulll and scum?

[bob3141]

in my first two examples scum literally can't create movement because they aren't even here

town is never that lucky

[bob3141]

There is different between scum moving and scum skewing teh deck. Scum could be first, second and third vote and still have that effect

think 3 balls and 13 cups. The scum know where 3 and 10 are so naturaly skew the deck

[bob3141]

if scum are not threatened they also dont make waves

[bob3141]

Bob I don’t follow this at all. And I’m very confident it will be disproved this time.

its not an exact science and can be quite difficult to see which of the options it is. for example it can be caused by hard scum counter wagon, absent players all being down, all wagons on town or scum playing for deadline.

Most cases imply a town starfire though.

[bob3141]

Its one of those things that hard to read day one but with more flips it get easier to read what the dynamic was.

[bob3141]

Bob's assumptions about the current wagon.

Mainly the one that scum would have broken a deadlock if one of the players on the wagon is scum.

Nope thats not what i was on about, its more complicated than that.

Scum in this situation would only break the deadlock if starfire was scum. If Pc was scum they would have to either wait for star fire replacement or start to try and make a 3rd option.

In general it very much relies on the action of both scum and town. The interplay on wagons chnages based on different factors, for instance deadlock could be caused by starfire and bella both beign town. The town lacks 2 votes that can move leaving a gap that is filled by scum. resulting in stalemate as the scum votes no long skew the deck as much

[bob3141]

How do you think town!KKFC would play this then? You asked me a question relating to PC's posting style and I showed you my thoughts. Is it that you think my evidence is too good or something?

Are you saying your not town KKFC?

[bob3141]

UNVOTE:

Any specific questions for me

I think we should execute Miller claim day 2 unless we’re like convinced beyond a shadow of any doubt

I think that would be a bit hasty. Far better to read nurse on play rather than the miller claim.

[bob3141]

UNVOTE:

Any specific questions for me

I think we should execute Miller claim day 2 unless we’re like convinced beyond a shadow of any doubt

You don’t think feigned ignorance, strawmanning, and never pressuring your scum reads are scummy?

In general sure but that’s PC’s town meta

he if he was scum based on meta how would you expect him to act?

[bob3141]

At the moment i think Kim has good odds of being scum. I get the feeling that he has been fence sitiing on starfire, PC and looker wagons.

If my scum read on PC is wrong and it is a case of town wagons being head to head. Then thats the sort of position i would expect scum to take

[bob3141]

Did you not find Greeting's posting in this game scummy?

Using a loaded question, yet does give any specific posts that they think are scummy. Very easy for scum to do as they dont have to back up there own read. Kim sicne you have asked this loaded question which of greetings posts do you scummy? As far as i can tell your scum read on greeting and bella stem from them beign low posters

Also if you scum read greetings slot then why are you not voting looker. Feels to me you just waiting to see whihc way the wind blows


Also whats the reason for your scum read on bella and naerys

[bob3141]

fixed the gramaa a bit

Using a loaded question, yet you dont give any specific posts that you think are scummy. Very easy for scum to do as they dont have to back up there own read. Kim sicne you have asked this loaded question which of greetings posts do you find scummy? As far as i can tell your scum read on greeting and bella stem from them beign low posters

Also if you scum read greetings slot then why are you not voting looker. Feels to me you just waiting to see which way the wind blows


Also whats the reason for your scum read on bella and naerys

[bob3141]

yep i want too see where kim is coming from.

There actions feel to much like a scum player trying to fan the flames of town players scum read on a fellow townie. Rather than a town player proactively trying to get their scum reads executed. As even if they turn out be wrong town always think at the time on balance that they are right

[bob3141]

VOTE: KatyKimFanClub

I think this our best bet day one.

[bob3141]

Do you still or no longer scum read greeting/looker?

[bob3141]

above at kim

[bob3141]

VOTE: KatyKimFanClub

I think this our best bet day one.

We have just over a day. Do you really think it's wise to try and push something like this through instead of looker/PC?

out of looker and pc i would go PC.. but players making choice is always good for town and Kim is very much fence sitting at the moment

[bob3141]

Also if you scum read greetings slot then why are you not voting looker. Feels to me you just waiting to see which way the wind blows


Also whats the reason for your scum read on bella and naerys

Are you going to read my posts or just say random shit?

Is it really hard to sum up the reasons for your 3 main scum reads (from your last read lis) as well as how they have changed with teh replacemnts

your last read list from post 801 below

Town
KKFC
Yimmy
Civil, IAVH
Bob (?), PC (?), Hu Tao, Starfire (no data really)
RN
StD
Greeting, Naerys
Bellaphant
Scum

[bob3141]

Considering that the person I am currently voting for hasn't posted since 801 I'm a little confused what new information you want? I think you're grasping at straws here.

So you cant then. As this player has been replaced so you should have atleast something to say about what was your top scum read. What do you think on their read on pc, aboiut their view on what to do about RN miller claim. And if this changes your read on them or the gamestate in any way


And are you admitting to vanity votign for last 5 days or so. As your overly defensive in reaction to player wanting to know why you scum read players. You have 3 scum reads and 2 have been on low posters and the 3rd on rookie player

[bob3141]

out of looker and pc i would go PC.. but players making choice is always good for town and Kim is very much fence sitting at the moment

You're the one being actively anti-productive to any majority vote going through today? You're going to vote me over the guy whose had your vote for the entirety of today based on a post you misread?

Answer my questions. what is the bases for your 3 top scum reads and while your at it since teh other lead wagon is on pc whats your read on them.

As from your last read list i would of expected you to move to looker ages ago as the other two goign wagons were place higher. Instead you made an exusse that you were presuring an empty slot. reeks of vanity voting

[bob3141]

VOTE: Kim

kims scum read on greeting never sat well with me. They never did anything with it and waited until e-1 until they jumped on looker. Looks like a clear bus

[bob3141]

that spews civil as town. civil was the one that greeting talked the most too

[bob3141]

Feel like unvoting this early reduces any sort of reactions we can get from the early wagon.
Like at least make it hurt for Civil.

No, we do not want an RVS vote to reach E-1, unless there is a legitimate reason to suspect that player.

Well.. is there a reason why we should make it hurt for

Civil Scum

?

So your out of RVS now. As the game stands where do you feel your actual vote would be most placed. Even if you strongest reads is null scum.

I’m in no rush to decide my vote yet. What I can say as of now is that I have weak townreads on

KatyKimFanClub

and

iamveryhappy

.

Top one is the only interacting greeting had with kim and that was relating to rvs aswell as being more about pushign civil. Yet with no real attempt at sorting he later comes to town read kim even if it is claimed to be weak

[bob3141]

instead of arguing with me about content/post count, maybe you should produce more

What do you think of

Civil Scum

’s case on

KKFC

(381 and subsequent)?

my initial impression is it's tvt

From what I’ve read it seems to be based on the premise that

KKFC

is not reading the thread carefully because he changed his read of

Naerys

over 267, which, I have to admit, does not look very convincing content-wise. The tone seems okay-ish though?

These are the others that come latter

first is at most indirect and classic case of distancing

the second is defense of kim yet has wish washy element to it

[bob3141]

The fact kim didnt vote greeting until after pressure from me for him vanity voting. when he should of jumped on greeting as soon as it hit 3-4 votes rather than 5 9 e-2 pushing it to e-1. Which is a again a clasic bussing position esp when there is only a day to deadline and greetign was teh only viable wagon

[bob3141]

Kim never pushed greetign even though he sat for ages in his bottom 3. which again is something scum do when they dont want to be seen to town reading scum but dont want teh execution to go through. In response to my questioning on the fondation of his read there. they first dried denial and then revisionism

[bob3141]

VC 1.09

Votecount 1.09

Greeting (3):

Political Clout, Save The Dragons, Naerys

Starfire (3):

Bellaphant, Hu Tao, iamveryhappy

Hu Tao (2):

Starfire, Greeting

Political Clout (2):

bob3141, Civil Scum

Naerys (1):

Random Nurse

Bellaphant (1):

KatyKimFanClub

Not Voting (1):

Yimmy

With 13 players alive, it takes 7 votes to secure an elimination.

The day deadline is currently frozen at 48 hours, pending replacement for Greeting.

here we have kim on greeting counter wagon earlier in the day

[bob3141]

it might be only 3 votes on greetign but fact kim was trying to push a counter wagon on bella

[bob3141]

when if they were town they would eb thinking ok i tghink both are scum. so ill go greeting today and push bella wehn teh slot is filled

[bob3141]

when if they were town they would eb thinking ok i tghink both are scum.

so ill go greeting today and push bella wehn teh slot is filled

What do you mean you'll go Greeting today and push Bella when the slot is filled?

they scum read bella and greeting at that point. Mini have 3 scum


so if they were town they would follow the logic that they cant get bella and the slot is empty. However, greeting there other scum read is getting run up instead they ignor it until it reachs e-2. That was also 5 days latter so they choose to vanity vote on a slot that wasnt posting instead of one of their otehr scum reeds

When a town player in that spot would just jump to greeting.


clear sign of distancing

[bob3141]

its teh same dynamic greeting had to furt in there last scum game. furt scum reads greeting yet keeps holding off voting for them. WIth greetings partner only voting once it hits deadline

[bob3141]

VOTE: Random Nurse

the one shot cop flip and the miller claim makes nurse highly likely town.

[bob3141]

its teh same dynamic greeting had to furt in there last scum game. furt scum reads greeting yet keeps holding off voting for them. WIth greetings partner only voting once it hits deadline

Furt?

its greetings partner from that game. what i pointing out is the vote dynamic is near the same.

player scum reads greeting but doesnt act on it. ignoring wagons that form there and then only voting when the days exeuction has already decided. a day to go and e-2. at that point town who were not scum reading or not noticing greeting would vote just to avoid no exeuction. The fact it took that for kim to vote is clear sign they are partnered with greeting

[bob3141]

VC 1.09

Votecount 1.09

Greeting (3):

Political Clout, Save The Dragons, Naerys

Starfire (3):

Bellaphant, Hu Tao, iamveryhappy

Hu Tao (2):

Starfire, Greeting

Political Clout (2):

bob3141, Civil Scum

Naerys (1):

Random Nurse

Bellaphant (1):

KatyKimFanClub

Not Voting (1):

Yimmy

With 13 players alive, it takes 7 votes to secure an elimination.

The day deadline is currently frozen at 48 hours, pending replacement for Greeting.

here we have kim on greeting counter wagon earlier in the day

here we have bob on greeting counter wagon earlier in the day

So we're Bellaphant, Hu, and IAVH, so...?

Bob's point is dumb and so is his whole case on KKFC

But I was commenting on your point about Bob being on a counter wagon.

My point is that a LOT of people were not voting Greeting at that time, so your point is moot.

which is my point against Bob

the point is kim claimed a scum read on greeting. so there is no logical reason a town kim wouldnt vote greeting instead they continue to push bella.

[bob3141]

Greeting ISO:

Just going to do the notable posts from my reread since I'm really tired.

56: puts Civil at E-2, which seems kind of illogical when you read 78?

239: It's pretty fair to say Civil gave off Newbie vibes at this point, and personally I think the earnestness was +town, but Greeting saying it's NAI seems ok. There's actually a presumption here that Greeting mentions again in 247 which is that a confused newbie would get townread. I think holding that idea is pretty +town since it indicates to me that at least some scumhunting process in place?

493/516: Feel like Greeting's re-use of some of my arguments against Civil Scum is actually kind of weird? I like how it's phrased as confirmation bias, but that's just a very small thing.

Just generally, I think the responses to all the cross-flak haven't been great, especially since the claim of being productive this game is just untrue.

Also 368 seems truthful, since IAVH definitely got more town from 240 to 368 in my opinion. But that just sort of begs the question of why Greeting has been lurking and then claiming that they're not?

this is on the 9th yet no vote or action against greeting/looker until the 17th. And that was just vote once the greeting execution was clear cut. why the delay, why the push back against me after post 1430

if kim was town he would have voted greeting much sooner and it wouldnt of taken the end of teh day and me pushign him to do so

[bob3141]

VC 1.09

Votecount 1.09

Greeting (3):

Political Clout, Save The Dragons, Naerys

Starfire (3):

Bellaphant, Hu Tao, iamveryhappy

Hu Tao (2):

Starfire, Greeting

Political Clout (2):

bob3141, Civil Scum

Naerys (1):

Random Nurse

Bellaphant (1):

KatyKimFanClub

Not Voting (1):

Yimmy

With 13 players alive, it takes 7 votes to secure an elimination.

The day deadline is currently frozen at 48 hours, pending replacement for Greeting.

here we have kim on greeting counter wagon earlier in the day

here we have bob on greeting counter wagon earlier in the day

So we're Bellaphant, Hu, and IAVH, so...?

Bob's point is dumb and so is his whole case on KKFC

But I was commenting on your point about Bob being on a counter wagon.

My point is that a LOT of people were not voting Greeting at that time, so your point is moot.

which is my point against Bob

the point is kim claimed a scum read on greeting. so there is no logical reason a town kim wouldnt vote greeting instead they continue to push bella.

he said he was voting Bella and then would consolidate on Greeting if needed

is that an amazing play maybe not but I don't see it as unreasonable and he literally did that

which is classic distancing scum move.

[bob3141]

greeting had 3 votes. adding a fourth would have put the heat on greetign instead they didnt vote and greetings wagon died. being replaced by starfire, pc, Hu and your slot.

not voting then is exactly what scum partner faking a scum read would do. Kim didnt even push the slot during that time. And disloyal doctor is not going to be role scum are going to want to lose unless they have no choice. so kim voting at e-2 when it was a foregone conclusion also fits.

[bob3141]

So Dannflor was suspicious of Hu Tao and iavh and gets nked. Was scum afraid or trying to to lead us on a false trail? I need to think

its not how it works. Scum rarely lead flase trails as they normaly just go for widly townread players and possible power roles. There was no way dann would be scum with the greeting flip

[bob3141]

Btw i tried to jail civil Scum, i really thought he might be night target, and since we didnt get vig kill its strange he didnt bring it up yet

If civil is a vig and your town. its actualy a bad move as vig kills are good for town as they are 100% motivated by town. sometimes they miss sometimes they hit scum

[bob3141]

a good example is my first town game back. although town went on to lose if you had been in that game and jk me night 1 then you would of stopped me killing scum n1

[bob3141]

I think its a strange target, here i was as a jk waiting to be nked lol

scums unlikely to nk you unless we get the second scum. as a town you would be low hanging fruit and only have 2 shots.

[bob3141]

Since kim is clear and obvous scum. when they flip red today you become a oneshot cop if you jk someone who wouldnt be nk by scum or vig.

[bob3141]

What did you DO to the REAL Bob?!?

Nurse stop being paranoid


Am i any different to how i was the day after i nabed a vig kill during night 1


ill post a link to one of my better scum games. But generally sort me on results if kim not scum ill eat my hat

[bob3141]

Also, if Naerys somehow survives until end-game as a 2-Shot Complex Jailkeeper and somehow hasn't been targeted at all for a NK, be smart and ask why.

doesnt really matter as we execute kim, they flip scum.

Nearys says who they will target goign into n2. e.g. happy. no death that inst climed by vig. Then happy is scum. if 2 nk then happy is confirmed town on nearys flip

[bob3141]

just because i shot you in my first game back

but so far only played one complted town game and the other was a rep in. And unless i think aplyer is town i dont rep in

[bob3141]

Also, if Naerys somehow survives until end-game as a 2-Shot Complex Jailkeeper and somehow hasn't been targeted at all for a NK, be smart and ask why.

doesnt really matter as we execute kim, they flip scum.

Nearys says who they will target goign into n2. e.g. happy. no death that inst climed by vig. Then happy is scum. if 2 nk then happy is confirmed town on nearys flip

For ONE a claimed JK shouldn't be announcing their targets. Mafia has more than one member, so they'll just shift the knife to their other hand.

not if they only have one hand. i was in this situation before were i became a oneshot cop when scum were 2 down and i was roleblock role. i was nk but it forced them to narrow down poe

[bob3141]

nurse for you reference thats a scum game from a whiel back

viewtopic.php?t=83299

[bob3141]

looker has flipped red. and there is no way kim is flipping anythign other than red. They did very clear bus. nurse just look at their actions day one

[bob3141]

Also, if Naerys somehow survives until end-game as a 2-Shot Complex Jailkeeper and somehow hasn't been targeted at all for a NK, be smart and ask why.

doesnt really matter as we execute kim, they flip scum.

Nearys says who they will target goign into n2. e.g. happy. no death that inst climed by vig. Then happy is scum. if 2 nk then happy is confirmed town on nearys flip

For ONE a claimed JK shouldn't be announcing their targets. Mafia has more than one member, so they'll just shift the knife to their other hand.

not if they only have one hand.

i was in this situation before were i became a oneshot cop when scum were 2 down and i was roleblock role. i was nk but it forced them to narrow down poe

...

What do you mean?

It's already been confirmed the Scum team has 3 members.

For clarification I was speaking about each hand being a member of the remaining Scum team. If the right hand can't perform the NK, the left hand will attempt it instead.

MEANING, if the JK says they're gonna JK the left hand, then the right hand will use the knife instead.

scum team has 3 hands. kill 2 and then its a one handed scum team. Thus turning all roleblock roles used smartly into cops

[bob3141]

The problem is my main suspects rn are 3 - bob, hu tao and iavh

greeting/Hu is never s/s if hu was scum with hu then that would mean pc is defintly town. Thus, looker would have joined hu on pc.

[bob3141]

Also, if Naerys somehow survives until end-game as a 2-Shot Complex Jailkeeper and somehow hasn't been targeted at all for a NK, be smart and ask why.

doesnt really matter as we execute kim, they flip scum.

Nearys says who they will target goign into n2. e.g. happy. no death that inst climed by vig. Then happy is scum. if 2 nk then happy is confirmed town on nearys flip

For ONE a claimed JK shouldn't be announcing their targets. Mafia has more than one member, so they'll just shift the knife to their other hand.

not if they only have one hand.

i was in this situation before were i became a oneshot cop when scum were 2 down and i was roleblock role. i was nk but it forced them to narrow down poe

...

What do you mean?

It's already been confirmed the Scum team has 3 members.

For clarification I was speaking about each hand being a member of the remaining Scum team. If the right hand can't perform the NK, the left hand will attempt it instead.

MEANING, if the JK says they're gonna JK the left hand, then the right hand will use the knife instead.

scum team has 3 hands. kill 2 and then its a one handed scum team. Thus turning all roleblock roles used smartly into cops

What does that have to do with anything we're talking about NOW, Bobbo?

I said a JK shouldn't be announcing their targets, because the other member will just perform the kill then. As is RIGHT NOW there's two of them left. If the JK announces they're going to jail X player, then Y will just do it instead.

NOW, the claimed JK is 2-Shot, and says they've used ONE shot already. We'd have to FOR SURE lim the second Scum TODAY and then have the JK also announce their target and HOPE it's on the last remaining Scum?

If the JK announces wrong then the last Scum could simply NOT perform a NK and make the innocent target of the JK look guilty.

in that case jk doesnt say what they would do on green check obvously.

[bob3141]

hi happy care to join the kim wagon.

bbmola trying to drive a counter wagon. and nurse think they can read me even though they have only played on town game with me and that was bob does inview with a vig

[bob3141]

any town player on me needs to unvote now. Im supper obvously a town pr with result on kim. i vote kim out the gate and hard push there, should of been clear that i was trying to get kim to e-1 to get claim without needing to out myself

like why does scum me nk kill dann when they were town read me, serously.

[bob3141]

any town player on me needs to unvote now. Im supper obvously a town pr with result on kim. i vote kim out the gate and hard push there, should of been clear that i was trying to get kim to e-1 to get claim without needing to out myself

like why does scum me nk kill dann when they were town read me, serously.

...

...

VOTE: KKFC

If he flips green, you're dead.

If this is a Scum gambit, you're also dead.

yep ive got a result on kim

i dont do such gambit as scum as my town game is my main focus

[bob3141]

any town player on me needs to unvote now. Im supper obvously a town pr with result on kim. i vote kim out the gate and hard push there, should of been clear that i was trying to get kim to e-1 to get claim without needing to out myself

So you were so confident I was scum Day 1 that you decided to investigate me? That's totally something someone who was a town PR would do! Pretty blatantly scum now.

VOTE: Bob

ssh caught scum there is no point struggling also you migth as well claim now

[bob3141]

This is so hilariously theatrical. Are you going to retract or not?

of course not, ive got a result on you

[bob3141]

This is so hilariously theatrical. Are you going to retract or not?

of course not, ive got a result on you

role.claim.

not how it works, first kim needs to claim

fact they havnt already is pretty scummy

[bob3141]

This is so hilariously theatrical. Are you going to retract or not?

of course not, ive got a result on you

role.claim.

not how it works, first kim needs to claim

fact they havnt already is pretty scummy

nono you go first, you're here
don't try this bs with me

its not bc as my role isnt cop. But i will claim this part. invest role + neighbour

ive already told my neighbour the result

[bob3141]

and my role

[bob3141]

Who's your Neighbor?

Hu tao

[bob3141]

they already claimed they targetd civil

[bob3141]

I'm an Odd-Night Rolestopper.

rolestoper dont have guns you lose scum

[bob3141]

im a gunsmith

[bob3141]

it quite funny as scum thought great we got the 1 shot cop but didnt know that meant i knew my positive result wasnt the cop. so they still lost a member

[bob3141]

VOTE: Hu Tao

They are right behind me

- fixed broken tag

Boo! Scared?

Should i be, are you armed and dangerous

my crumb

[bob3141]

i am gated

[bob3141]

also its not 7 pr, its 5 town pr and 2 scum pr

bulletrproof cancels out the miller
cop is one shoot instead of evens/odds
rolestopper is gated and so is gunsmith

neighbours arnt strong power roles asthey depend on who land them and how they are used


funny story last time i roled gunsmith i caught scum night 1 as well although the vig also visited them.

[bob3141]

how many shots

its anti town to ask what my exact gating is. My neighbour knows and im prob be the nk now. As gunsmith in this setup is defacto cop with dann and lookers flip.

looker means i get inno with my results and dann means i get guitys

rather than inno or scum doc
and guilty or cop

[bob3141]

even naerys role is now a cop as if the kill happens it means who ever they blocked cant be the last scum

[bob3141]

naerys claims jk which is role that roleblocks.

thus if they target e.g. happy and the kill goes through. you know that happy didnt shoot anyone

any any vigs will claim who they shoot. so 2 kills happen, then happy is 100% cleared. one then it needs to be checked if its scum or vig kill

[bob3141]

ah i forget they were complex

[bob3141]

I am glad i am not the only one who thinks that rolestopper claim is very suspicious.

in these setups scum usualy have doc + rolestopper/roleblocker+goon

[bob3141]

in this game the doc acts as a foil to the gunsmith and the rolestopper acts as a doc plus making the targeted player asthetic

[bob3141]

Time to compile a list of PRs
Flipped:
KKFC-Mafia Odd Rolestopper
Dannflor-Town Novice OS Cop
Looker-Mafia Disloyal Doctor
---------------------------------------
line go brrr
Alive:
Naerys: Town Complex 2-shot Jailkeeper
Civil Scum: Town 2-shot vig
RN: OS BP Miller -> Town Lazy Novice Tracker
Bob: Gunsmith Neighbour (gated, being paranoid about it)
Hu Tao: Neighbour (unknown if any more abilities)
8 PRs. Huh. Mechanically breaks the game.

dont forget town normaly has 4 pr and scum 1 pr. And neigbhours are usualy just named townies.

And so far their are no ungated roles fliped or claimed. So this is likely a game with 5 town pr vs 1 scum pr and 1 scum foil role

[bob3141]

Bob, how confident are you that Hu Tao is Town?

They knew about my role day one so i think if they were scum there would have been a high chance i would have been night ones nk.

[bob3141]

Well, i targeted Bob, thought he might be scum target. Apparently not.
In my mind its Civil Scum vs Random Nurse now. A pretending vig vs apparent miller.
Time to think.

Was the right move even if civil the claimed vig wasnt the one that nk bbmola. As although i got no result on my last gunsmith shot I was the most likely scum kill at that point.

[bob3141]

The question everyoen needs to ask is why didnt pc become lookers counter wagon, even looker didnt jump on that slot.

[bob3141]

before i moved to kim day one. There were 3 votes on pc vs lookers 4. and those 3 look all town so why not single scum sheep vote.

would of switched things to 4v3 to 4 v 5 with 4 players left one of them scum.

[bob3141]

Bob, how confident are you that Hu Tao is Town?

They knew about my role day one so i think if they were scum there would have been a high chance i would have been night ones nk.

Hm.

I guess there's a high likelihood Hu's Town. Without mod-confirmation there will always be some paranoia there.

Were you able to use your Gunsmith ability again?

Also, why are you still alive, lol?

either scum shot me and naerys saved me with civil shoting bbmmola. or scum just balked at shooting me knowing naeys had a high likelyhood of protecting me and shot bbmolea instead.


If it was the former then me being rb on my last shot doesnt really matter as i would have had a result but been in the dead thread othewise

[bob3141]

Well, i targeted Bob, thought he might be scum target. Apparently not.
In my mind its Civil Scum vs Random Nurse now. A pretending vig vs apparent miller.
Time to think.

Was the right move even if civil the claimed vig wasnt the one that nk bbmola. As although i got no result on my last gunsmith shot I was the most likely scum kill at that point.

No result?

Do you have a modifier that would cause that, or do you think you were roleblocked? I'm betting you were "Novice," too?

in this game i only have 2 shots

[bob3141]

i think its self explanatory.

either scum shot me and a vig civil shot bbmola or scum shot bbmola or scum and a vig civil both shot bbmola.

[bob3141]

Oh scratch that, i dont think i will really believe RN´s claim. But i dont feel like voting him, if he doesnt get Nked, then he´ll be suspect. Right now i want to hear more from CS (who actually told us to eli him, if he survives, nice reversed psychology right there)

there's like no reason for mafia to toss RN into a sack of rocks and into the river. s!me would just keep RN alive for a possible misvote.
plus imo we still have to solve withing the PRs

Thats something that too often doesnt happen. Ive also seen the other extreme where al town role have to be town and in elo a player thinks two of them are partners.

a good rule of guestimation is that town has equivalent of 3.5 medium pr vs scum 0.5 medium.

Also although different gatings this setup so far is similar to prior one ive played on this site


tracker, vig, cop, gunsmith vs rolestopper/roleblocker +doc <minus gattings


So the shape of the claims in this game is right

[bob3141]

I've seen nothing that indicates the two Neighbors are confirmed to know each other is Town.

A wise Town Neighbor wouldn't

assume

the other is Town.

looked at wiki, neighbours can be of any alignment

The thing to take into account is that Hu Tao knew my role and my gating day one. And they would of known at the very least my night action would have either created a confirmed town or caught scum. Its not like i was likely to be protected either so i would have been an easy NK. Although dann flipped one shot cop they could have easily flipped something else from everyone but danns pov.

[bob3141]

ill be voting pc today although i do want to hear what civil did with hsi role today. And a claim from that we can concider a true claim as we have so many town pr outed it doesnt hurt

[bob3141]

I've seen nothing that indicates the two Neighbors are confirmed to know each other is Town.

A wise Town Neighbor wouldn't

assume

the other is Town.

looked at wiki, neighbours can be of any alignment

The thing to take into account is that Hu Tao knew my role and my gating day one. And they would of known at the very least my night action would have either created a confirmed town or caught scum. Its not like i was likely to be protected either so i would have been an easy NK. Although dann flipped one shot cop they could have easily flipped something else from everyone but danns pov.

Still, don't let that blind you. Scum can be extremely crafty, and they had 3 members. Did you ever tell Hu Tao who you were planning to target before doing so?

all i really said was that i would play it safe and that i would visit someone that civil wouldnt shoot if they really were a vig. If they are scum all they would know is that i was at the very least get one clear and block a misexecution.

Hu tao isnt excluded from being scum but it does make it less likely than other players.

[bob3141]

oh and civil no gambits as if your town any gambit will just hurt towns chances. Knowing your True claim will allow us to resolve if all town power from neigbours to trackers is town or if one could be scum

[bob3141]

VOTE: random nurse

Nvm VOTE: iamverryhappy this feels right

last scum might also just be save the dragons...

Anything more than this. Scum go down oen after the other and we have several new pr claims and the above is all you have had to say

[bob3141]

Also if civil does stick to his claim and isnt vt fake claiming then the last scum is most liekly in pr claims

Hutao - neighbour?
civil - 2shot vig
nearys-2 shot sk
nurse- novicelazy tracker

___
flipped dann- one shot cop
Odd night gun smith neighbour -

[bob3141]

abit disappointed no one adressed my question about the pc wagon day one

looker was executed with one know scum bussing them. Yet the counter wagon at its peak on pc was 3 vs greetings 4.

if hu tao and civil are bother town then why didnt scum jump on pc before i derailed that counter wagon.

If hu tao is town why dint they shift their vote to looker. both were their scum reads

once the deal is done and counter wagon can happens, looker goes after hu tao

[bob3141]

wagonomics shows either pc scum or one scum in hu tao/Civil

[bob3141]

VOTE: KatyKimFanClub

I think this our best bet day one.

We have just over a day. Do you really think it's wise to try and push something like this through instead of looker/PC?

Don't see the reason for kkfc scumread

why no looker vote at this point?

ok you claimed a town read on kim and scum read on pc. But were you not claiming a scum read on greeting/looker as well. At these point looker had not yet been hammered

[bob3141]

fact nurse claimed both lazy and novice gating with tracker makes it very likely they are town.

fact scum have disloyal doc implys there is tracking/follwoing type town power.

the doc part is foil to teh gunsmith and disloyal stops it from being able to protect scum. which is taken by rolestopper. If it was simply to remove the protection element from teh doc other gattings could be used

[bob3141]

After CV and CP claims i think we might as well do a mass claim. 2 scum are down and pretty much all town power is spent with only possible vig shots left

[bob3141]

For starters civil said he was on vla

[bob3141]

in spirt my vote is on pc. but i dont want to end the day before i get civils true claim. that way i can resolve if all the town pr could fit together

[bob3141]

does pc chnage of charatcer not strike anyone. they ahve gone as silent as mouse which just looks like scum thats given up

[bob3141]

fact nurse claimed both lazy and novice gating with tracker makes it very likely they are town.

fact scum have disloyal doc implys there is tracking/follwoing type town power.

the doc part is foil to teh gunsmith and disloyal stops it from being able to protect scum. which is taken by rolestopper. If it was simply to remove the protection element from teh doc other gattings could be used

Bob, what's your meta info on me tell you what I am this game?

that if your scum lighting does strike thrice

but im leaning town as it seems you generaly felt paranoid that this time i could be scum

[bob3141]

OK, so I'm here and available all night until 0730.

I feel like the game *SHOULD* be easier because there's only one Scum left, but it's probably going to be harder because it's primarily going to be Town fighting each other, and no real associatives like you'd see between two living Scum over the Days.

Quicks notes are these: Don't automatically assume Bob OR Hu are Town. Both are still alive. I'm inclined to think CS is Scum that's basically given up, so if CS's future replacement sees this, apologies, I'll be pushing you.

Is it too early to massclaim? I figure if we do the walls will end up getting narrower for Scum. I want CS to re-claim, and everyone else to lock in their claims.

sensible approach but i would like to add this, i hate being lone scum so i would never bus my last partner unless forced. Although it winof i would never fake a guility on my last partner before elo-1


On mass claim we certainly need civil true claim. But i think scum already know were most of the pieces are. This game def has vig shaped hole in it so if civil sticks to his vig claim weere goign to have to mass claim. if his true claim is a weaker role, then we shouldnt mass claim. As that would out the unclaimed vig or last town pr

[bob3141]

never mind it might not be civil that i saw was vla. just that someone was vla until 24th, all i can remember

[bob3141]

yep this game def needs mass claim

while we wait on civil replacemnt and pc. yimmy, dragon and happy you all might as well claim to get things moved along. Pretty sure your all vt and town anyway

Hu Tao can claim last as i already know their role

[bob3141]

also has anyone even looked at greetings and kim iso. Do you really think the player they talk the most to is scum

[bob3141]

Iambrad what is your role. it is essential you claim

[bob3141]

Iambrad what is your role. it is essential you claim

Bob, I can feel myself getting pissed and I know you've currently got a cooler head.

If the new guy refuses to claim, what do you think?

for few hourse ill give him benifit of the doubt as I dont know how much of the thread he has read since his first post. but his next post needs have his claim in it as if it were e-1

[bob3141]

So you refuse to claim?

if so ill assume your slot was scum fake claiming vig

[bob3141]

you solve can come after your claim. Thats all town needs

[bob3141]

ill vote him to e-1 if hi dont get a claim in next 30 mins.

In this gamestate there is always eithr sucm on the pc day one wagon or pc was scum himself

[bob3141]

im not interested in your solve, im interested in your true claim.


only 3 players out of 9 have not claimed and one of those has claimed to me in the hood. So you refusing to claim is anti town

[bob3141]

concider yourself already at e-1. And players claim at e-1

[bob3141]

after your claim you can try and solve the game but until then you need to claim now. or we will fidn your role from your flip

[bob3141]

VOTE: iambrad

[bob3141]

if iambrad isnta town pr that confirms hu tao, nurse, naeyrs and my slot.

happy, yimmy and dragon are never scum in this gamestate

[bob3141]

that just leaves the last scum in pc and iambrad

[bob3141]

Ive know for ages they were fake claiming vig but wanted to know if they were fake claiming bp. They prob just fake claimed bp because of the rolestopper and they weere not the doc.

[bob3141]

scum has doc so they know town has gunsmith. rolestopper can either protect goon or doc but not both. Vig claim stops a gunsmith visit.

[bob3141]

if iambrad isnta town pr that confirms hu tao, nurse, naeyrs and my slot.

happy, yimmy and dragon are never scum in this gamestate

Wait, what?

Run that by me one more time.

dragon flip the execution to looker from pc.
happy is spewed town by greeting.
yimmy stand offishness show that if they were sucm they certainly were not helping. So if they were scum they were activly being anti-scum

[bob3141]

the performance in the last hour has been so pathetic that i'm not only immeasurably disappointed in the level of mafia play but near irreparably depressed at the fall of people as a whole. you are lost and lack humanity, and it was a mistake to ever touch people like this with anything less than a 50 foot pole. it's a mistake i won't be repeating anytime soon.

peace, best of luck. i expect to be dead by the time i wake up. i'm hoping that's at least one thing you people are good for, but even that, i doubt.

says teh gfuy who will not claim when town has all ready taken 2 scum down without a single misexecution

[bob3141]

find it odd that iambrad came in playign dumb. When a first glance would show 2 out 3 scum are dead and that kim went down day 2 after guility

[bob3141]

also imbrads second post makes it quite clear that a vig shot bbmola and the scum nk failed. As they are fishing for the vig by getting players to speculate on the bbmola kill