Mini Normal 2305 | GAME OVER

[Klick]

VOTE: curiouskarmadog

There's a name I've not seen in a long while

[Klick]

I mean you are calling out specifically me

I feel less bad about voting your claim and more bad about voting you despite reading you as town outside of the claim

[Klick]

I usually like D1s but I'm not getting into this D1 in particular

I have Elements as obvtown, ckd as towny, and then everyone else as a blob of nothing in particular

[Klick]

Actually

VOTE: OopsieDaisy

[Klick]

I usually like D1s but I'm not getting into this D1 in particular

I have Elements as obvtown, ckd as towny, and then everyone else as a blob of nothing in particular

What can I do to help you get into this day 1?

I don't really mind a slow start. I think we're starting to get somewhere more interesting since I posted that anyway
I feel like a lot of the early early stuff was more obviously NAI than I'm used to

[Klick]

I have Elements as obvtown

Hi Klick! Nice to meet you. Do you mind explaining this thought process a bit?

Hello!

I find it interesting that Elements describes her D1 as fairly NAI because I've found her very readable from early on in the last few games I've read with her in them. From what I can remember there's a noticeable self-consciousness and dip in enthusiasm/energy when she's scum. Here she just wants to play and get things going and it feels very motivated by wanting to make solvable content

[Klick]

Well, from initial impression I believe OopsieDaisy is the closest thing to what I would consider a positive read.

The organic posting and the way she presents her opinions strike me as someone coming from a townie mindset, or at least striving to convey that.

What made me think such thing were posts like

"I read you as town rn for the record, I prefer your approach to the game this time around. Feels like there's much less of an agenda behind what you're saying and you're just enjoying yourself''

(101), where she expresses an internal read and does so without worrying about how that would be conveyed (without seeming forced), and the short reaction on

''That's always a possibility''

(108), which reflected to me as a spontaneous response to the doubt surrounding her. A negative point, however, was 101, as the theoretical scenarios ran a bit away from the organic sequence and reflected to me as a potential attempt at emulation, although it is an isolated observation of minor weight (compared to the overall view I have of the slot).

I have had the exact opposite reaction to reading OopsieDaisy posts
To use her most recent content on this page as an example, I feel like she is overexplaining her position on things in a way that could indicate scum wanting people to be able to clearly see her thought process

[Klick]

Have you played with gera before clidd? Do you know much about him as a player?

[Klick]

I have had the exact opposite reaction to reading OopsieDaisy posts
To use her most recent content on this page as an example, I feel like she is overexplaining her position on things in a way that could indicate scum wanting people to be able to clearly see her thought process

What's scummy about wanting people to see your thought process? It's something I care about a lot as both alignments because without that clarity I don't understand how people could properly judge my reads.

I think the intent of your posts has been to performatively show people your thought process and I think you care about that more than the thoughts themselves

[Klick]

From what I can remember there's a noticeable self-consciousness and dip in enthusiasm/energy when she's scum. Here she just wants to play and get things going and it feels very motivated by wanting to make solvable content

Because she was scum in 2302, do you think it's possible that her energy could be overcompensatory as to avoid detection?

I've not read 2302, if you'd like I could skim it and see what I think?

[Klick]

viewtopic.php?sid=&f=2&t=91038&user_select%5B%5D=32224

I think start of day in this game is pretty blatantly different from start of day here and demonstrates my point clearly
The vibe I get from that game is trying to be lax and keep it cool
And what I get here is trying to make stuff happen

[Klick]

Have you played with gera before clidd? Do you know much about him as a player?

Yes, I did. My previous game was with him on Mini 2273 (viewtopic.php?t=89555).

He was scum there and did basically nothing significant on D1.

I mainly ask because that's like his entire shtick on D1 as either alignment

[Klick]

what

EBWOP

I think the intent of your posts has been to performatively show people your thought process and I think you care about that more than the thoughts themselves

You'll have my vote if you can demonstrate this to me. I'll vote you if you can't.

I'm not particularly interested in making a case on it, I'd rather people read a general description of the behaviour and come to their own conclusions because that means a lot more than following the words of someone else.

I initially voted because I felt like Oopsie's reasoning in 101 was weak; it feels really general to the point where I doubt it was the literal thought process that went through her head and feels more like an overly detailed description of what she believes she thinks like when she's town

Then her progression onto gera in 151/152 felt like unnecessary positioning. I don't think she actually thinks there's much to get out of wagoning gera. The intent behind the post feels like it's to provide a reason for her shift in vote rather than actual interest in shifting her vote.

[Klick]

Hi Tweet
I've been looking forward to playing with you in particular, I feel like we'll both actually get a proper word in with a smaller game and this player list

[Klick]

viewtopic.php?sid=&f=2&t=91038&user_select%5B%5D=32224

I think start of day in this game is pretty blatantly different from start of day here and demonstrates my point clearly
The vibe I get from that game is trying to be lax and keep it cool
And what I get here is trying to make stuff happen

Ele admitted within the first 5 or 10 pages that they were making up their reads as they go along and also said they were tryna make things happen (in that other game).

Idk if it really felt like we were trying to keep it cool

I admittedly didn't read that far!

I wouldn't be particularly surprised if the reads just being flat-out made up wasn't exactly true though and there wasn't something more optical about it

I dont think it changes my analysis of her play up to that point much at all

[Klick]

When I say 'keep it cool' I mean more in the context of how Elements usually plays
I didn't sense any real drive behind her posting in that game even though as a shell the idea was 'play to make stuff happen'
In contrast I feel like she's actually motivated to do that here

[Klick]

Klick - I actually asked because I wanted to see if you're trying to make a sincere attempt at sorting Elements or no. Sorting him as obvtown feels off to me because it's not really the intuition I had in the first pages. When you gave me your read on Elements, I nodded and moved along because I could somehow see how you might have thought about it that way. But with Tweet's challenge on your read and your admittance that you didn't read that far... now I'm thinking your intention was justifying the read first (that you called him obvtown, so you must demonstrate that it must be obvious) and it wasn't actually your priority to double-check if you had the right read on Elements. Now I'm not sure if you're town who wants to be correct or scum who's making up your reads.

Have you read through the early posts by Elements in that other game yourself? What are your thoughts on them in isolation and in relation to this game?

I read the first 30ish posts and got a general vibe of her initial approach, and felt like there were clear differences to this game. I didn't really look at it rigorously because it was more of a feeling/general impression to begin with.

[Klick]

Fair

I think it's probably fair to say there was focus on my part of justification over sorting. Part of that is because I entered reading that other game thinking what I was going to read was likely to match with what I already thought about Elements here, because I've read previous games of hers and already have this impression of Elements' play outside of this game.

[Klick]

Yesterday was actually the worst day of the year so far
I'll try to get around to this tonight

[Klick]

Can someone give me the tldr on ckd suspicion?
I thought they were towny earlier

[Klick]

Hello friends I am ready to dive back in for a bit.

Tweet are you townier on other pages than you have been on this last one?

[Klick]

I wasn't saying 'I found you towny earlier and your recent content is scummy'. It was more 'I'm not caught up but this last page looks scummy for Tweet, will I change my mind when I'm caught up?'

[Klick]

Daisy doesn't feel any urgency in responding to Morning Tweet, a slot she thinks she can sort and whose reaction she's waiting for, is exactly what I feel. It tells me that she isn't consistent with what she says her thoughts and motivations are.

I have trouble putting myself into this thought process and like... believing it?

How confident were you in this as an argument at the time?

[Klick]

I actually quite like OopsieDaisy's posting on 9/10

I think what we actually did earlier was fairly effectively establish a town schema and a scum schema for OopsieDaisy and I think the town one is more believable

[Klick]

@HEM

I think there are plausible reasons, as Klick commented, to suspect her, but I particularly don't sympathize with it.

The reason is that I had a good impression of her tone when posting, as well as the feeling of genuineness on some reactions.

I understand that inconsistency and cognitive dissonance are scummy aspects and therefore should be questioned, but when I put it on my personal balance of positives vs negatives, the positive impression ends up weighing more heavily.

Lmao so basically what clidd said.

[Klick]

I wish I could read Geraintm, but figuring out his alignment is like playing a slot machine and the house always wins

Lmfao relatable

[Klick]

HEM also feels very town. He's pretty straightforward and direct as either alignment, but I notice he likes to scheme a lot more as scum, and I haven't seen any of that so far. More so just poking and prodding to get people to post complete thoughts and follow ups.

This conversation actually started all the way back here lol

I feel like Elements is town for similar reasons. They look like they're just having fun, and I think it's unlikely that they would be hyper posting like this if they rolled scum twice in a row.

I'm surprised you think this is AI? I think Elements is town but hyperposting isn't really why

[Klick]

I'm through Page 12, will be back in a few hours
This is about where I'm at

TOWN
Elements

LEANING TOWN
OopsieDaisy
clidd
curiouskarmadog

NULL
geraintm
Greeting
Emperor flippyNips
Takutai
furtiveglance
humaneatingmonkey

LEANING SCUM
Roden
Morning Tweet

[Klick]

Same

[Klick]

Also Mod,

going to be out of pocket between 07/01 until 07/05

reminder mod.


at any rate, I wont have time to read today (packing now), and probably wont be able to get to this until 07/05 evening. After deadline.

I understand how Day 1s go though, someone has to go. might as well be me.

My claim is Vanilla Town.....have at it.

remember look as who jumped on who AND when....and their reasons..

This comes from town a really large proportion of the time.

[Klick]

Also Mod,

going to be out of pocket between 07/01 until 07/05

reminder mod.


at any rate, I wont have time to read today (packing now), and probably wont be able to get to this until 07/05 evening. After deadline.

I understand how Day 1s go though, someone has to go. might as well be me.

My claim is Vanilla Town.....have at it.

remember look as who jumped on who AND when....and their reasons..

This death note is the towniest thing you've posted

The mindmeld!!!!

[Klick]

The assumption if CKD is scum is that they're in a very different mindset than they are expressing in their claim and subsequent posts
I don't read CKD as that cheeky for minimal expected benefit

[Klick]

Either getting through this right now or finishing in like 5 hours
Aiming for the former!

[Klick]

Hum, I don't think anything has changed about my vote.

Unlike Geraint, Karma's uncooperative stance doesn't sound to me like ''town not caring about being eliminated'' but rather ''scum trying to create the false sense of towny bravado''.

The lack of reads in this context seems like a maneuver to avoid associations, not boldness. At least the way I see it.

I'm surprised you have this take? Do you still have this take?

[Klick]

Do you not think it's easy to do as absent scum?

It might be easy to do in literal action

It is not easy to make the *choice* to throw in the cards and make a nonchalant VT claim as scum

[Klick]

no wait.

this doesnt make sense.

he would have had a heads-up from his mates that he's not in THAT much danger.

this is clearly a vibe check. i know it was for me. and as scum, maybe he would have played it cool if there was a chance not to nuke his slot right there and then. also considering he had a reputation for not posting much and being solid in later days. he could have pulled of a gerain.

this slot is town.

I rather like this progression

[Klick]

no wait.

this doesnt make sense.

he would have had a heads-up from his mates that he's not in THAT much danger.

this is clearly a vibe check. i know it was for me. and as scum, maybe he would have played it cool if there was a chance not to nuke his slot right there and then. also considering he had a reputation for not posting much and being solid in later days. he could have pulled of a gerain.

this slot is town.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Roden

[Klick]

Ok, I guess you don't want to say the part that makes your accusation nonsense

In every single game, we've always come into conflict with each other. And in every single Day 1, I've scum read you. I've been town every time I've done so.

So explain this to me. What does scum me gain from making myself stand out and town read you when that goes against your experience with me?

You develop your position and make your takes more complex
It's not that complicated

[Klick]

I think furtive's been really towny in the last few pages

[Klick]

do you agree that one of you has to go today?

No. I think most if not all of the people who have been active and keeping up with the thread are townie. I think scum are within the people who are staying out of drama and laying low.

I'm interested in hearing about this in more detail Roden

How did you come to this conclusion? Who does this include as people you're considering town by that basis?

[Klick]

Atm my reads are here

{curiouskarmadog, Elements}
{furtiveglance, clidd, OopsieDaisy}
{humaneatingmonkey, Takutai}

{Geraintm, Greeting, Emperor flippyNips}
{Roden, Morning Tweet}

[Klick]

What an interesting couple of pages

[Klick]

That's HEM's worst page by far

HEM getting cold feet feels fake what? Not how I was imagining your read of Roden to be so weak it's shaken by thread consensus, now you want to take a shot in the dark over Roden who you were "99%" sure on

Roden self voting and saying its HEM and nothing else is suspicious

I had the opposite instinct yet again
I think HEM's hesitation feels genuine especially since it was backed up by an actual change in vote
But more strongly than that, I disliked Roden's self-vote thing and had the same reaction as HEM to that

[Klick]

Then why aren't you voting?

[Klick]

clidd is definitely one of them. i'd have to wade through oopsie, elements, greeting. and maybe gerain.

this is still true regardless of town or scum flip. with this amount of unanimity, this is probably a bus.

greeting is there, not as scum in Roden's wagon, but as someone to watch out for. same with gerain (but gerain expressed willingness to be in any wagon except Daisy's)

this is real guys i am getting cold feet

This is just not a real thought process. HEM was complaining and rallying for my head for several days straight and nobody jumped on it. But in less than 15 minutes, he goes from "oh hey I finally got what I wanted, must be a bus" to "omg I'm totally being set up". The moment the wagon has actual momentum, suddenly he has cold feet. Why? Several people were contesting his read, and in Oopsie's case, she even voted him. He got challenged repeatedly and that just doesn't happen if outside forces were trying to lead him on into pursuing a mis-elim, especially since absolutely no one was goading his 1v1 with me on.

It's a lot more believable than your snap change of opinion on HEM

[Klick]

Also Mod,

going to be out of pocket between 07/01 until 07/05

reminder mod.


at any rate, I wont have time to read today (packing now), and probably wont be able to get to this until 07/05 evening. After deadline.

I understand how Day 1s go though, someone has to go. might as well be me.

My claim is Vanilla Town.....have at it.

remember look as who jumped on who AND when....and their reasons..

This comes from town a really large proportion of the time.

The assumption if CKD is scum is that they're in a very different mindset than they are expressing in their claim and subsequent posts
I don't read CKD as that cheeky for minimal expected benefit

@ curiouskarmadog doubters: I want engagement on this point

[Klick]

I don't think you should be satisfied with killing likely vanilla town.

[Klick]

I want to hear about your confidence in Tweet!town Roden

[Klick]

No Takutai's saying they think Roden is scum and Karma is town but they want to vote Karma and not Roden

[Klick]

I felt quite bad for leaving this, especially after seeing Greeting replaced out at the same time. I thought it'd be alright but things shook up at my job substantially and I got very busy. Thanks for taking it as far as you did scumteam subs.

[Klick]

when you laid down a novella with chapters on why I'm scum, that's when i knew i just had to hunker down and surrender because there was no getting through to you after that (even now you're tunneled on me)

if you were scum, town wouldn't have kept momentum!

bro but i wasn't scum. i think this is a game where there's a strong case for town!me but because i have a reputation of being "good" (i'm really not that good, i just like playing it up), i'm doomed to be always a miselim because i'm not good enough to have a reputation of being good.

I feel this in my bones.

The number of times that I've heard "Shea hasn't done a single thing that makes me think he's scum but I can't town bin him because he has a strong scum game" this year has been infuriating lol.

Responding to both of you, coming from someone who doesn't have that strong of a scum game, so take it with a pinch of salt

I feel like defining what exactly it is that makes you town and making it clear to the others in the game is an important skill as town

When you're town you're in a unique position to know your range and limits, what you're capable of in the game and what you have done that you wouldn't have done as the baddies. Capitalise on it and make it clear enough what the differences are that it can be followed by the thread at large

That being said I think HEM was very good in this game even despite the miselim

PEdit: hello!! Got work right now so gtg but I'm well <3