Mini Normal 2305 | GAME OVER

[Greeting]

Greetings! Nice to play a mini normal again after a while.

VOTE: Elements

[Greeting]

Spoiler: Nice argument, however:

I always laugh at that ad. Didn't she walk in there in the first place?

[Greeting]

Why do you want a tweet wagon?

I want one because it's an opportunity to form a big wagon early on that players are then forced to react to. Looking at who stays on the wagon/leaves the wagon, who ignores it completely, who opposes it. That's all info that can help the game out of RVS and into some actual analysis.

In terms of why Tweet specifically? Basically I wanted to push someone from 2302 cause I've got an idea of how they would react to things (which thus would mean a push on em yields more info) and I PoE'd it:

.Pressuring Gera won't do much cause he's not really playing the game for Day 1 anyways, so felt it was a less useful push.

.Pressuring Emperor wouldn't be too useful either because whilst they popped off on the vig shots last game, they were ultimately quite an inactive player so poking em with a wagon prolly wouldn't come to much.

.Pressuring Karma I could see just putting him straight on the defensive, and would I imagine lock him on to someone very early on in the game. Would be interesting cause then flips mean something but I'd rather Karma find someone more naturally since he usually has a different take on things than me.

.Pressuring you, well, I voted you at the start but then post 11 was what initially townpinged you to me, so I wanted to switch my vote and get a wagon going,

Thus, that left Tweet as my choice for the wagon.

I don't necessarily agree with this logic. In almost all games I've played RVS ended sort of naturally, and there was no need for artificial building up wagons for pressure only?

But let's follow this train of thought. The justification for pressuring

Morning Tweet

in particular seems out of the place. If we are to pressure someone with a wagon, wouldn't it make more sense to look at the content in this particular game rather than referring to meta from a past game? And how can you get an accurate bit of someone's meta from just one game?

[Greeting]

I have Elements as obvtown

Hi Klick! Nice to meet you. Do you mind explaining this thought process a bit?

Yeah, this raised my eyebrow as well.

[Greeting]

clidd

gives out town vibes.

humaneatingmonkey

gives out town vibes as well. I agree with almost all of his thoughts in this game so far.

I kinda wanted to townread

OopsieDaisy

for her effort and engagement in the game, but on the other hand, the content she made does not really make sense game-wise and logic-wise. And a lot of the things she said could have been shortened to a few sentences instead of whole paragraphs. Reading 186 was a headache. The switch on

geraintm

looks bad after claiming that pushing him makes no sense earlier is nonsensical as well. Oopsie, no townread.


I found 205 kinda suspicious as

Roden

didn't seem to be that focused on the game prior to making that post, and felt the need to specifically defend

OopsieDaisy

's behavior. Too early to say if I'm onto anything with it though.

That's what my takeaway from the first 10 pages.

[Greeting]

I kinda wanted to townread

OopsieDaisy

for her effort and engagement in the game, but on the other hand, the content she made does not really make sense game-wise and logic-wise. And a lot of the things she said could have been shortened to a few sentences instead of whole paragraphs. Reading 186 was a headache.

Do you think long posts that don't justify their length mean the player making them is scummy? That just seems like an issue you have with my playstyle as a whole rather than anything alignment indicative.

It could potentially be AI, because it generates the impression of providing high-volume content.

[Greeting]

I have zero interest in eliminating Oopsie today

Why?

[Greeting]

Daisy bled town last time, I'm still waiting

I think its really interesting she abandoned my wagon then rejoined for no reasoning and just vibes (NOT IN A SHADE TYPE OF WAY)

More like

Something that's probably AI for her one way or other, but I wouldn't know

I have a question.

Why are you focusing on the fact that

OopsieDaisy

rejoined your wagon and not on the reasons she provided for it?

[Greeting]

Also, what makes Clidd's defence of me produce a townread, but Roden's produce a suspicion?

It's not because of

clidd

's defence of you specifically, but because he's presenting his reads in a coherent and transparent way.

I don't have to fully agree with someone's reads to think that they come from a town viewpoint. Let's take this post for instance:

As a second impression, I had a back and forth on Elements.

I mean, their participation was overly energetic which at first reflected negatively, since the overall picture I got was of someone trying to convey the image of ''look, I'm here present, notice my presence''. But after trying to process whether this had any malicious intent, it got a bit confusing what exactly the purpose would be since all this attention didn't seem directed towards an agenda or an *evil 4d plan*. Maybe being having fun is suggestive? or appearing to be at least? I believe it's possible to have fun in both alignments, but I'm not sure how to interpret the act when I don't have a history with them. Probably need assistance with this one.

I kind of had the negative impression of

Elements

the first time as well, hence why I have not moved my RVS vote from that slot yet. I share the view that the amount of posts from that slot is not something to be concerned about (likely NAI). However, the amount and quality of content most definitely is, and it is underwhelming.

[Greeting]

Anyways, off to sleep now, have been very busy with work recently. I'm keeping my vote where it is for the time being.

[Greeting]

UNVOTE: Elements

[Greeting]

UNVOTE: Elements

what's changed?

Just withdrawing from my vote at the moment, as the game went on forward quite a bit since I cast it. I'm currently organising the thoughts I got from reading the thread.

[Greeting]

@

Elements

:

What did you find so suspcious about

clidd

at that moment?

I'm finding clidd pretty suspicious right now

@

HEM

:

Why did you decide to vote

clidd

in 406? You withdrew from that pretty quickly too.

[Greeting]

Yea I mean the funny thing is I think there's evidence in this game already that HEM *is* scheming. Look at how the interaction with HEM & I went where he asked me a question to divert my attention away from Tweet's posts, and then called me out for focusing on that question and not the Tweet posts. That felt SO much like scheming to me.

What I don't understand is how Roden seems to have completely missed that, unless Roden is looking for longer term scheming in which case how are you even meant to find that at this point in the game?

To be fair, you're right. It kinda started at post 139 when he made you talk about a past game and then the topic of

Morning Tweet

never resurfaced.

I would still leave

HEM

be for the time being though. I'm not at all sure if this was scheming or just part of his aggressive play of pushing different buttons to see which one clicks.

[Greeting]

@

Elements

:

What did you find so suspcious about

clidd

at that moment?

Or are you aware that I have a habit of finding towny when someone vocalizes suspicion about me.

I'm finding clidd pretty suspicious right now

[Greeting]

I'm kind of surprised that no one is concerned about this read though:

Kinda want to town lock Tweet even though it feels a bit silly to do this early. I get the feeling she wanted to roll town and was relieved when she opened her role PM. Based off of what I'm hearing of the last mini, it might be because of that?

[Greeting]

Morning Tweet

has done nothing even remotely towny in this game and you want to townlock her,

Roden

?

[Greeting]

Right now I have:

Town:
HEM
You (Elements)

Some towny stuff:
Daisy
Klick
Roden

Neutral:
Greeting
MT
Emperor
CKD

Vote targets:
Clidd
Geraint
Takutai

Can you expand on your reads on: me,

Elements

,

Klick

and

Roden

?

[Greeting]

On the first point, HEM was prompting Elements for a summary of 2302, not me. I just jumped on it because I was also v active at the time so it made sense.

On the second, to clarify you're on the same page as Roden with regards to a scheming HEM = a scummy HEM?

My bad. I ISO'd you and assumed the question was to you.

I cannot be on the same page as

Roden

or anyone else for that matter, as my knowledge of

HEM

's meta is not that great. A townie surely doesn't have any interest in scheming though?

[Greeting]

Why did you decide to vote clidd in 406? You withdrew from that pretty quickly too.

Clidd is an arrogant bastard who doesn't want to be wrong and this tracks.

And how exactly did you form this opinion of him?

[Greeting]

You're so suave. Greeting is my locktown but I'm sheeping you

Do you have any other reads?

[Greeting]

There isn't much more to say, just early reads

Why those players?

VOTE: furtiveglance

I have my reasons, I will disclose them after you answer.

[Greeting]

I think my only experience with scum Elements was modding HMS Mutiny, and their content was a lot more superficial/jokey than it has been this game.

Klick's posting has been broadly in line with my experience of his towngame, although I will say when I've played with scum Klick it took me a while to clock it.

I already explained my townread on Roden a bit in 579.

I have you as neutral just because I don't think you've done anything especially towny. Do you think you have?

The reason I asked was because I did not see that much towniness in

Elements

or

Klick

's behavior. I was confused as to why you are townreading both of them.

Do you have any examples from this game or other games?

[Greeting]

Maybe that's not such a bad thing since we have a lot of loud voices, but unlike other townleans I have with similar levels of activity, I've found myself having a harder time grasping Greeting's overall thoughts on the game so null still feels like an appropriate slot for Greeting to be in my head.

At the moment I'm just sorting things in my head. I shared a few of my reads before.

I think I can give you a townlean for the time being.

I uphold my

clidd

townread.

[Greeting]

I apologise for my infrequent activity, it is due to work reasons. I will come in to evaluate everything before the end of the deadline.

[Greeting]

How come I'm a townlean now?

You are making a genuine effort to solve the game, and your inconsistencies in logic might have a disorganised town explanation. Especially since you have openly admitted to it. I have no willingness to vote you or flip you at this stage, hence why you're a townlean.

[Greeting]

okay thanks Watson

what do you make of Greeting asking a question that you had already answered?

i have an excuse. im playing on mobile right now.
but if he's voting you, he probably should have a good idea of where your head is right?

I think Greeting is scummy for treading water yeah.

How would you define "treading water"?

[Greeting]

But my issue is that it doesn't seem like this is out of character for Greeting as a player?

Nevermind, I decided to pick a town Greeting game off of his wiki page to ISO so I could check on this, went with Mini Norm 2262 and wow he was making some louder plays there. Now, it DID result in him getting voted out Day 1, so maybe there's an argument that over the past year Greeting has changed up his playstyle cause it wasn't reaping him rewards, but it's worth noting.

My most recent town game, which I am quite proud of: Mini Theme 2301

My first scum game on this site, which I am still very proud of: Newbie 2095

I am not good at judging my own meta. It's also not a good thing to do for a player in general, as it borders on a trust tell which is against the rules. So you'll have to judge for yourself. You can check my wiki page for more examples of my games, I update it fairly regularly.

[Greeting]

I don't really feel like voting

Roden

to be fair. He doesn't sound any different than usual and I have played several times with him in various configurations (we were on a scumteam together once). I will hammer only if it gets to deadline and there is no alternative.

[Greeting]

Wait, is he at E-1 or has he been hammered?

[Greeting]

UNVOTE: furtiveglance

We still have time, that’s good.

[Greeting]

Reading this game feels exhausting. I feel like it's high time for me to stop testing the waters and settle on an actual scumread.

[Greeting]

I am down for an elimination from this pool: {

Emperor flippyNips

,

curiouskarmadog

,

Klick

,

geraintm

}. This group has got to have some scum in it.

I was concerned about

furtive

's lack of enthusiasm earlier and wanted to push him for it. But his responses had an annoyed ring to it and felt bitchy, which is usually a sign of a townie who is annoyed of being pushed. I want to keep him around, at least for the time being.

[Greeting]

I don't like

Elements

' play in this game at all, while the activity patterns seem to be NAI, the play is non-committal and has a lot of filler content to make it seem like doing something. I guess I could vote that too.

[Greeting]

VOTE: curiouskarmadog

I'm not buying the walls of text at all, it is an easy way to get towncred for effort. A lot of players don't read them anyway. He said that they're mostly for him, but that's what a PT is for, not the main thread. A lot of his reads (1189) feel completely contentless, and even the ones which actually have content feel watered-down.

okay no one asked yet...but here we go, general thoughts on everyone.

Gera, its null, they havent done anything, the only thing that is different this game (I meta-ed them the last game) is that they havent complained as much about Day 1 sucking this game. the only thing to note is that for someone who doesnt like Day 1, they had a chance to end it by hammer Roden. IF Roden flips scum, Gera is suspect. if Roden flips town, Gera looks townish.

OD, it hurts me to say you are in my top 3 scum suspects. maybe it is play style, but I find myself making excuses FOR you. I dont like your interaction with Tweet. Leaning tweet/OD scum team. The only thing that is stopping my vote, is I DID suspect you last game and you were town. you are killing me with the "to be honest" posts. if you flip scum, I will never let a "to be honest" post slide again. you seem opportunistic. I want you to scum hunt, you seem like you are coasting on others.

Elements, it could be residue effects from the last game, but have been back and forth on you in the read. most of your jumps on wagons look bad, but you have had a couple where I thought "hmm, would scum do that?". going to put a pin in this for now. need to see some flips.

Greeting, ugh...null too. hops in, does a little dance party full of questions and light-thoughts...jumps out again. didnt hammer Roden (follow back up if there is a Roden flip). I need to see more from this slot.

Roden, ugh..I think a lot of info COULD come from this slip. But I think he is town...if he flips scum, I look bad, but....it is what it is. I wont be voting him today, will see if that end up killing me today. I hate the self vote. if I found a game where are scum he self voted, I would jump on this wagon, HEM homework?

Klick, null pile with EFN (Nips), more like Greeting, comes in...does the hokey pokey, jumps out. who knows.

That's like half of players in the game, and generally can be boiled down to one word - "null".

I suppose the rest of the reads do give some information about

curiouskarmadog

's stances in this game, but I simply disagree with most of them and have a feeling like they're not genuine.

So yeah, I can get behind this wagon.

[Greeting]

Greeting, Roden, Takutai
Day 1 solve

Any new guesses?

[Greeting]

im wondering why karmadog's other and stronger reads are conveniently left out of this "half sample", and I wonder if that could have been malicious.

i may have been pocketed but I don't know if I agree that ckd's posts are that much devoid of content. it saved me a lot of time having to ask him about his reads because I could already see the timeline of his progression.


Like this isn't even a real critique of his content. This is just personal style stuff.

I would also like you to elaborate why you don't buy karmadog's posts at all. Is it a specific read and progression? I'm truly curious because I want you to be town.

They were left out on purpose, obviously. I did, however, refer to them in that very same post.

My point was akin to what I said about

OopsieDaisy

in 307 early in the game, large volume gives the impression of a lot of content, which, I don't believe was the case with

curiouskarmadog

.

As for my read of him itself, if 90% of someone's content is notes and summary of the game state, then it should be grounds to raise anyone's eyebrow. I had ISO'd that player before casting a vote, and decided that it's worth a shot. Because I didn't really believe that

Roden

was scum.

His reaction to my vote was akin to hysteria, even though he himself had not voiced any great suspicion of me beforehand. Here's the read:

Greeting, ugh...null too. hops in, does a little dance party full of questions and light-thoughts...jumps out again. didnt hammer Roden (follow back up if there is a Roden flip). I need to see more from this slot.

[Greeting]

For the record, me jumping in and out is just the way I play due to personal reasons (work and timezone differences). It is very unlikely to change. It is only today that I have a day off.

[Greeting]

did you have the problem with the walls of text in this game we were in together?

viewtopic.php?t=90681

where I was town....and posted said walls when I had to catch up.

Yes, I did! Not just yours though, there was a lot of high-volume content in that game in general. That's why I replaced out of that game, I simply could not catch up.

Did you forget to mention my replacing out on purpose?

VOTE: curiouskarmadog

[Greeting]

greeting is another good option, similar levels of inaction to furtive, with the actions themselves not reflecting great on either.

Yeah, I have a question. Which actions of mine don't reflect great on me?

I have not been as active as many players in this game, agreed. Nonetheless, I did form several reads from my questioning of several players (yourself,

furtiveglance

) and observing others (

hem

,

Roden

)?

If you are referring to my last-minute

curiouskarmadog

vote then what's so bad about it? I chose the option that, in my opinion, had a higher chance of flipping red than

Roden

, and his extremely nervous reaction to the vote seems to be proving that I might be onto something?

[Greeting]

Greeting does something about the way curiousdog responds to your vote ping you, or is it just the large volume of content but without towniness?

You're mentioning the way curious reads you seems fake, is that a significant part of your read?

Perhaps I did not phrase that very well.
The core of my read was: large amount of useless, from the perspective of game-solving, content (aka walls of text) and contentless reads. Like I said before, in 1189 he had numerous reads which essentially amounted to null. Some people seem to have a problem with me leaving out the rest of the reads (even though I had mentioned them in 1216), so let's get to that now by picking some of the ones that have content:

Fur, also top scum pick. HEM nailed it, no soul in this game. Votes a lame, stances are phoned in. I want to see him push a case. coasting. says he doesnt like a thing, then does that thing. hiding in plan sight scum.

I have been pushing

furtiveglance

for like half of Day 1 and he seemed both apathetic and slightly annoyed. Now he's pushing me. It's NAI at worst and towny at best. At least that's my opinion.

clidd, also part of the "to be honest" club (man I will be horrible to live with if both you AND OD are scum together). I am leaning scum/null here. Hasnt done much. Hasnt made waves. also coasting. Also have trouble understanding they "why" behind his reads.

I have been very consistently townreading

clidd

, and I feel like his reads are well-explained and generally coming from a town point of view.

I do agree with the

humaneatingmonkey

read, but that's about all that me and

curiouskarmadog

have in common. Other than that it's just pure opposites and the reason for this, I think, is because the reads are fake.

Now, let's take his reaction to my vote. He countered it with wagoning me almost instantly. The core of his argument being that I did not have a problem with his walls of text in a past game. Thing is, I did, and the high volume of content in that game was exactly the reason why I had replaced out of that game. I don't really feel like this game has the same amount of high-volume content as the other and anyone can do a recap on their own.

Finally, I have a problem with the hypocritical argument that the reasons for me pushing

ckd

are related to his playstyle (doing recaps in the main thread), whereas part of the reason why I am being pushed are my irregular patterns of activity, which are well, related to my playstyle. That's bullshit in plain sight and I'm honestly surprised that no one had caught that before.

All of this summed up does not look well for

curiouskarmadog

and I am willing to keep voting that slot.

[Greeting]

Ok I think ckd's recent posting has been towny. Especially interactions with Greeting.

What's so towny about it?

[Greeting]

VOTE: Greeting I'm still interested in this slot.

Why?

[Greeting]

Also what was the purpose of this post.

Wait, is he at E-1 or has he been hammered?

also what was the purpose of the this post. Other than letting everyone know you were posting when he was at -1. Did you really think there was a possibility he was already hammered by this post?

I wanted to know if it was twilight or not. Because if it is then all that's left to do is wait for the flip.

[Greeting]

Anyway, @

furtive

, you had said that I am being stiff in this game. Do you believe that my meta in here differs to when I am town? You have played with both town me and scum me, so you should know that if you're bringing that up?

Also, if you could respond to 1393?

[Greeting]

VOTE: Greeting I'm still interested in this slot.

Why?

???

[Greeting]

greeting is another good option, similar levels of inaction to furtive, with the actions themselves not reflecting great on either.

Yeah, I have a question. Which actions of mine don't reflect great on me?

I have not been as active as many players in this game, agreed. Nonetheless, I did form several reads from my questioning of several players (yourself,

furtiveglance

) and observing others (

hem

,

Roden

)?

If you are referring to my last-minute

curiouskarmadog

vote then what's so bad about it? I chose the option that, in my opinion, had a higher chance of flipping red than

Roden

, and his extremely nervous reaction to the vote seems to be proving that I might be onto something?

Yea at the time I was unsure what the Roden flip would be but held the CKD townread I still have. You not being on the Roden wagon and instead at the last minute looking to get CKD out pinged me super hard since I felt the CKD wagon was bogus. Obvs now that flips have happened I can see that means a lot less as Roden was townie.

VOTE: Greeting

What was the reasoning for this vote then?

[Greeting]

did you have the problem with the walls of text in this game we were in together?

viewtopic.php?t=90681

where I was town....and posted said walls when I had to catch up.

Yes, I did! Not just yours though, there was a lot of high-volume content in that game in general. That's why I replaced out of that game, I simply could not catch up.

Did you forget to mention my replacing out on purpose?

VOTE: curiouskarmadog

so having a problem with posting and thinking a TYPE of posting is scummy is completely different. WHO CARES if you replaced out? YOU SAW I had did it in that game and was I town. But you think it is scummy here. calling bullshit. YOU KNOW it isnt scummy. YOU KNOW they were catch up posts, because that it how I post. Explain HOW this is scummy.

I ALREADY did, READ up!!

[Greeting]

Meh, not going to waste my time with him either. He claims that because I did not focus on his posting style in a past game specifically, me claiming that it's scummy in this game is a bullshit reason.

annnnnd, here we go.

did you have the problem with the walls of text in this game we were in together?

viewtopic.php?t=90681

where I was town....and posted said walls when I had to catch up.

This logic is just terrible. In that game

everyone

made heaps of content, it's about the only thing I remember about it. So if we make the assumption that a lot of content = always scum, it's blatantly obvious that everyone cannot be scum. The logic doesn't take into account that a lot of content generates a lot of response, and that this game does not require walls of text, and is much easier to catch up with. That is what PTs are for, period.

And I honestly do not remember

any

of his content from that game, I only remember that it was hard for me to catch up in that game because of the volume and for that reason I replaced out. So saying that because I did not find that scummy before in a past game me providing this as a reason in this game is just dishonest. Because it generated a shitload of useless content that no one cares to read and gives the impression of activity.

It's obvious in broad daylight that he started pushing me only the second that I started voting him. At the time I thought this guy had a higher chance of flipping scum than

Roden

, and I do not take back that vote.

My read has been explained in detail, sadly no one really cares about it.

If you guys decide to vote me out, just please go after him on Day 3.

[Greeting]

greeting is another good option, similar levels of inaction to furtive, with the actions themselves not reflecting great on either.

Yeah, I have a question. Which actions of mine don't reflect great on me?

I have not been as active as many players in this game, agreed. Nonetheless, I did form several reads from my questioning of several players (yourself,

furtiveglance

) and observing others (

hem

,

Roden

)?

If you are referring to my last-minute

curiouskarmadog

vote then what's so bad about it? I chose the option that, in my opinion, had a higher chance of flipping red than

Roden

, and his extremely nervous reaction to the vote seems to be proving that I might be onto something?

Yea at the time I was unsure what the Roden flip would be but held the CKD townread I still have. You not being on the Roden wagon and instead at the last minute looking to get CKD out pinged me super hard since I felt the CKD wagon was bogus. Obvs now that flips have happened I can see that means a lot less as Roden was townie.

VOTE: Greeting

What was the reasoning for this vote then?

OopsieDaisy

is having an unnatural progression of her read of me as well. It's concerning.

[Greeting]

As for the other wagon,

furtive

, I have been pushing him for a while and I think he's just stubborn and grumpy town in this game. And I don't vote someone whom I think is town just for self-preservation. I vote for scum.

[Greeting]

Prod dodge, will address the new posts tomorrow.

@

hem

answer my question first, then I’ll answer yours.

[Greeting]

Congratulations to town! Sadly, I had to replace out due to work-related issues.