Mini 1782 Game Over

[Maxous]

Itslike its a new (awesomer) game now!

good job I subbed in then, we needed to balance it out.

i see there's a lot of time until deadline so I'll read up over the weekend

[Maxous]

unvote

[Maxous]

vote: Clumsy

I would focus on either Clumsy or A Plain Farmer.

The way I interpreted the early game, there was a lot of aggressive town-arguing going on between {Radiant Cowbells-Frozen Angel-Roshar} and then later with {Jake-Frozen Angel.}
I would focus on the people skirting around the arguments, trying not to get involved as I would think the scum players would really want to avoid getting dragged in to arguments.

i feel Clumsy's been overly quiet in general anyway.

[Maxous]

I still think Jake/Max is a scum slot.

he was being obnoxious to the point where he nearly got policy-lynch'ed for his behaviour and would have if he wasn't replaced.

He wasn't being survivalistic at all.

[Maxous]

I am in a cage and the key is thrown away
Gently do the winds in the trees sway.

VOTE: Jake

Because he just is. I will always chase tunnelers as tunnelers will always be scum to me.

one last thing, this vote was crap and kinda scummy.
if there is a scum on jake's wagon here is where I would say it is.

[Maxous]

Ugh, yeah, I like it too unfortunately.

Unfortunately?

Re: Max's post 937 - It's true that scum can hide away during a tunnelly TvT argument but I also think scum could dominate the thread like this.

i'm not saying the arguments *have* to be all town v town.
In my opinion, these ones were though.

[Maxous]

vote: Clumsy

I would focus on either Clumsy or A Plain Farmer.
...snip...
i feel Clumsy's been overly quiet in general anyway.

Why APF?

The same as Clumsy, just to a lesser extent.

[Maxous]

What is town arguing anyway?

it's a bunch of town-aligned players arguing amongst themsleves

[Maxous]

unvote

go on then

[Maxous]

What would you like to know Max?

you said you wanted time to talk.

I kinda agree regarding Shadowez, I wasn't stoked with him popping in with a wall full of questions earlier.

Oh, and Maxous was the first to unvote Clumsy. Hmmmm....

yeah, to prevent a quickhammer.
I would think you agree since you want the other replacements to catch up

besides from what i've seen you're case on me is you don't like me giving town reads on {FA,RC and yourself}
apart from the jake stuff

[Maxous]

not bothering to quote but Radiant Cowbells and Frozn Angel both having a go at each other and trying to figure each other out would point towards them being town considering they're friends.
If either was scum I would suspect the scum would try and appease and buddy the other to get an ally in the thread.
Neither did that and I would town-read the slots for it.

Frozen Angel was really really obvious town anyway and pisskop has been town too so I would be near 100% on that slot.
Maybe I could look to quote something from Roshar but she was pro-active and the arguments were solid so she came across as a town read.

-

Evaluating the likelihood of Clumsy being VI vs scum.

what's your definition of VI.

I kinda agree regarding Shadowez, I wasn't stoked with him popping in with a wall full of questions earlier.

And what would you have rather seen? I mean, if you're scum I can understand why you wouldn't want me to try and figure out people's motivations or get explanations.

asking a bunch of questions can be an easy way for scum busy-work without doing much.
to answer your question: a bit more of an analysis of the information

[Maxous]

jake was L-2. That's what I would consider close.
plus the last 2 votes from lowell and pisskop were policy lynching votes, if he was scum he would of toned it down because his behaviour was certainly gonna get him hanged to keep the game civil if nothing else.

The jake-FA fight was a lot more personal than anything game related.

[Maxous]

skimming here, sorry.

clumsy seems like town just for writing a million posts when called out on content. Seems pretty absurd to do as scum.

I would be looking at Shadow or Huntress I think for the vote.

[Maxous]

Why Huntress? This is the second time you seem to have scumread someone without giving a reason.

I'm leaning town on Shaddowez. I like his post 950 - I think it's asking for and responding to clarification. I do think it was a bit early for his vote on Clumsy though.

what was the first time?
anyway, I didn't like what Jeanne posted and Huntress has read the thread but is struggling to put out thoughts to give us all.

[Maxous]

About Jake/Max, most of this is repetition but it's what I'm thinking:

1) I think he's presented conflicting information in the thread and then been misleading about it. I linked to the posts I'm talking about in post 663
2) The way Jake was posting at the beginning of the game and the way he reacted to questioning about his pre-game opinion makes me think that he wouldn't back down from being questioned. The argument that he would do this as town isn't applicable, for me.
3) I get a bullying impression from his interaction with FA. I think he was panicking and responded like this to FA's questioning.
4) His discussion of reads lists (post 356, post 446, post 472) is theory-based posting rather than analysis of the game.

can't really defend point #1. He was being obnoxious for the sake of being obnoxious
point #2 is a playstyle indicator, not an alignment one
point #3 - they don't like each other on a personal level, that is why they had that level of argument
point #4, he was grumpy/moany but that's not really alignment-indictive

-

vote: Huntress

[Maxous]

Huntress took a week to briefly explain one read and pop up with zero town-reads.

That's why i'm voting her

[Maxous]

yeah, I think Clumsy just over-committed to games and got lazy/unmotivated

[Maxous]

He was talking about it earlier in the thread and I felt it was genuine.

[Maxous]

Gotcha. So if Huntress comes in and says the same?

well that would depend on wheter or not Huntress DOES say the same, for her defence.

[Maxous]

Huntress took a week to briefly explain one read and pop up with zero town-reads.

So taking the time to read the thread and giving my scums reads (plural, not just one) is scummy is it? Please explain that one for me. And why are you so concerned about my town reads?

because i suspect you are struggling to come up with reads and reasons for them.

skimming here, sorry.

clumsy seems like town just for writing a million posts when called out on content. Seems pretty absurd to do as scum.

I would be looking at Shadow or Huntress I think for the vote.

Why would this be absurd to do as wolf? Popping in to give enough content to diminish the momentum against you, then popping back out and returning to regularly scheduled non production, seems pretty wolf to me.

I admit Clumsy disappearing again weakens my feeling on that.

[Maxous]

unvote, vote: Clumsy

[Maxous]

it's likely this is a choice between two town anyway.

So, choose whichever

[Maxous]

I would say the nosferatu kill would implicate Lowell the most to be honest.
He was the only person nos was really against.

I'm with this thinking, and I take the blame.

VOTE: max

^
This was a pretty poor vote anyway.
sheeping titus and "taking blame" for a mislynch he didn't actually hard-push sounds off.

I would still say huntress is scummy, she seemed pretty content to let the mislynch go through without getting her hands dirty so to speak.

For me it's the willingness to believe what's his name was just busy instead of lurker scum but not that other person. Makes her reads seem arbitrary.

I've mentioned 3-4 times that the scum-read on huntress is not a lurker lynch
it's because of her struggle and unwillingness to give and explain reads.

Max didn't respond to my questions until I pushed him on it. Could be that he felt like he didn't need to because he was feeling particularly secure.

because you're asking me to defend a lot of BS that Jake wrote.
I can't, I would simply suggest, just look at previous games from himself - you will see largely the same behaviour.

[Maxous]

I saw you respond once to the idea when I posited it here, but that was hardly a defense from the accusation.

Don't worry about it.
I was tired and being a bit snippy.
Maybe I wasn't clear before but I think it's scummy because she has struggled to come up with content to give. I don't think it's case where she's just lurking, I think suspect she

can't

come up with much which would indicate a scum struggling with the game.

i'll vote lowell though because i'm really not inclined to just ignore the nos night-kill.
People will argue WIFOM but nos was not an obvious kill nor a universal strong town-read so i'm inclined to think there was a particular reason for it.
Not like Lowell has been a shining beacon of town play regardless

vote: lowell

[Maxous]

Why did you ignore my question?

it's answered in #1293

I've replied to this already, but you apparently just ignored it.

i don't mean to be a broken record but people keep asking me to clarify

Can you quote what makes you think this?

she was pretty slow to give a stance on the competing wagons.
but yeah, fine it's not the strongest point in the world.

[Maxous]

Why are you voting Lowell out if wifom and not Huntress who you have a scumread on based on play?

idk. I was seeing if anyone would say anything because there is little to work with here.
i thought re-voting huntress would just be pointlessly beating the same drum

Because you still haven't backed up your claim that I'm "struggling" yet you keep repeating it as if it's a fact, which it isn't.

you have literally only elaborated on one read.

[Maxous]

As for your explanation I just can't bring myself to assume scum is lost, well, ever, really.

what? this point?

Well I don't agree. Faking reads is a lot harder than getting reads.

Advocating Max's NKA. "There was no reason for Nos to be NK'd tbh " is just wrong. Maybe Nod crumbed or slipped.

(1)

Maybe they had some power that revealed Nos's role.

(2)

Maybe Nos seemed just a little too smart to let live (Nos has beat me before, I can attest)

(3)

. Maybe scum was comfortable so they just rolled some dice. You don't

know

(unless you're scum) so trying to make it seem like that kill tells you anything and then trying to push a lynch because of it is just stupid.

(4)

1) then where is it.
2) not for a night 1 kill
3) If his reads were accurate yes. If I have considered this and the reason I looked into it is exactly because he wasn't a target I would of expected.
4) I get this practically every time I do Night-kill Analysis. Anyway, it wasn't as if it was the sole reason i'm looking at lowell. If his play was particularly town I would more inclined to ignore it. but it isn't.

edit: the neighbour thing is talked about later. yeah, it's possible scum didn't want to be stuck with a town-neighbour throughout the night. More chances to slip up.

[Maxous]

you have literally only elaborated on one read.

I'm only pushing one read at the moment. The others are sitting on the back burner because I want to reread some stuff in context first and then update my reads. I should be able to do some of that tomorrow.

Your vote preceded the back and fourth between lowell and rosh. What are your thoughts on lowell's charge?

huh.

so I read this, looked back and you're right.

Huntress votes Roshar for a quite a while.
Lowell and Roshar have a big back and forth and then Huntress...writes #1371 and pops out again.
like, didn't even address or comment on it at all.

yeah..yeah.
she likely is scum afterall

unvote, vote: Huntress

additional point: I thought jeanne was scummy and I think Huntress is. 2 people independently scummy in the same slot? (not to mention how KT was a pile of null)
This is prolly where I want to go.

[Maxous]

why not.
We're speculating why the scum-team decided to kill nos.
dunno why so many people are having a fit over it.

-

His big deal is Huntress didn't comment

my big deal is read her ISO Titus.
what do you see?

[Maxous]

@Titus - I agree that Max is still scummy. He's voted for Huntress before so this is going back to a previous thought. He seems kind of apathetic and isn't responding much to the suspicion on him. This is subjective, so I don't think it's AI, but it's not doing anything to change my opinion.

well, what do you want.
I'm trying to explain to people to lynch the lurk-scum but everyone is being a backseat driver nitpicking

how

i'm trying to push the read.
Somebody explain why they think she's town then.

Max, what is your opinion on the allegations made by Lowell against roshar?

roshar is still town, response still makes me believe that.
not sure about lowell, i'll come back to him.

sidenote: If Lowell is town I think APF is scum based on APF's vote earlier. Just my feeling.

[Maxous]

lemme put this way.

I didn't get a town-read on Kain Tepes' posting.
I thought Jeanne11's posting was poor.
I don't like Huntress' posting.

[Maxous]

i have glazed over this game a lot but let's see.

RadiantCowbells

Titus

- I thought RC was towny on my first read. Titus is tunneling me and wanting to talk even though she won't talk about huntress with me so i'm finding it hard to have an opinion on her here.

mhsmith0

- He seems okay. Could be scum though.

KainTepes Jeanne11

Huntress

- as i said, i didn't like any of the 3 players in this slot.

Froot Loop

- Yeah, seems townish. Pretty assertive and prodding without jumping down people's throats

Frozen Angel Pisskop

JohnnyFarrar

- Frozen Angel and Pisskop were both really town so I would be very inclined to think town here.

Maverick1102

FA_Q2

- I've glazed over FA quite a bit but I did like Maverick as town

shaddowez

Garmr - Maybe scum? Shaddowez was very null to me

a plain farmer

- Could be scum I guess. Coasting a bit and arguments seem to be critiqued quite a bit? I fully admit I haven't paid close attention to him recently though

Lowell

- Seems a bit hard to read but eh, if I had to choose gonna go with town atm.

Roshar

- Still think she's town. The late-day freakout at Clumsy etc. seems a lot more town than scum, IMO

[Maxous]

Would have preferred to wait until max replied to me, but he essentially ignored my post a second time.

which one.
people have asked me a million things this game.

i gave my reads list on the previous page. Only change since is that I would put mhsmith0 a bit likelier to be town after #1462.
putting solid effort in constructing reads there.

[Maxous]

so I was thinking APF is scum but now APF is hard-defending me and i've gotten confused again.

meh, sorry i wasn't involved enough to point out the scum-team here but i would deffo say huntress anyway.
enough of this "I can't read her because she isn't giving me much to go on".
like, yah think there might be a reason for that? it's called lurking and it's a pretty effective scum-tactic.

[Maxous]

if i had something super-awesome i would of already said it.

but i don't

vt

[Maxous]

Also before clumsy he doesn't really push that hard and his reaction to jake vs frozen was weird to me it's like he was trying to keep in it and be active while making sure not to get to drawn into if you know what I mean(don't know if I conveyed that right).

yeah, i remember thinking APF was skating on the sidelines a little too much during that *and* the FA-RC-Roshar arguments