Mini Normal 1809: Game Over
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Hoopla
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Hoopla
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Hoopla
- Posts: 10788
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Hoopla
- Posts: 10788
- Joined: October 12, 2008
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Hoopla
- Posts: 10788
- Joined: October 12, 2008
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Hoopla
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Hoopla
- Posts: 10788
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Hoopla
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that is some seductively abstract logicking...In post 35, Robbnva wrote:She votes me for not RVSing which implies she has an issue with people not RVSing(which would be stupid to begin with), but by doing that she herself didn't Rvs which makes her a hypocrite and as a result less trustworthy
Since Rvs voting isn't actually necessary anyway it's a bit of a way to force herself to look good by being proactive.
but it doesn't seem indicative of alignment. it seems indicative of not seeing potential hypocrisy. of the two accusations (hers and yours now), yours seems more like "forced proactivity" whatever that is-
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Hoopla
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fair enough.In post 41, Robbnva wrote:It's may not be completely alignment indicative but it's a good starting off point for me. She's a player I can't trust atm.
however, by your tones, i haven't established you as chill yet, but you're in the maybe section forhoopla's town voting bloc. only chill townies allowed (no mafia).-
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Hoopla
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in some ways it looks like he's doing good things early, but i consider his brisk start more a personality thing than alignment, based on vague long-ago memories of playing/reading games with him in it. so, if anything, i'd have him as null, but cool with the energy he is bringing.In post 47, Vedith wrote:Sounds like a great town bloc.
I'd sign up, but I just don't care enough to join a town bloc.
I do have concern that you are hiding a pointless comment, with a buddying comment.
Going by this, you have Robbnva as a LeanTown already, correct?
as for the town bloc, don't be put off by me putting rob in the maybe pile. like a top-end bar or nightclub, you need to have a line waiting outside to lure in the quality people. hope you apply again when you're ready.-
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Hoopla
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agree, and it seems incredibly town to me.In post 59, Robbnva wrote:such a weird question to ask.
cmitc1, consider yourself invited tothe town bloc. stick with me and we will get things done and make this thread great again.-
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Hoopla
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Hoopla
- Posts: 10788
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Hoopla
- Posts: 10788
- Joined: October 12, 2008
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Hoopla
- Posts: 10788
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Hoopla
- Posts: 10788
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oooh, that's a spicy self-meta meatball!In post 169, BBmolla wrote:Protip: I'm not. I can cover when I'm wrong as scum by lying.-
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Hoopla
- Posts: 10788
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personally i think this wagon is yielding great dividends and you'd be CRAZY not to get involved.
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Hoopla
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WELL, something has come up and i have to go and take care of it. i'll be back at full capacity in 24-36 hours, and hopefully i can squeeze a post or two in during that time.
ideally i wanted to push bbmolla's wagon a bit more, because he seems to crumble into a beautiful puddle of emotional appeals (which i love btw), and wanted to see who else jumped on board. but i won't be here for a while and don't want things to get too out of control,given i now believe he is town.
his stream of posts from 166-171 was an extremely lucid town meltdown. i genuinely believe him when he says he'll just lie as scum... and i don't think he just goes straight for a self-meta defense as scum, mostly because it's usually my last resort as town too when i feel like people are ganging up on me unfairly - i pretty much don't do it as scum, and i rarely see scum use this defense, just because it does look so fishy to most people.
UNVOTE:-
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Hoopla
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Hoopla
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ok, i have RETURNED
i've done a quick read over the pages i've missed and the main concern i have is about the lack of serious wagons that have been generated. a lot of people are posting noise and are not attempting to further the game through their votes, which is bad given we've already used 30% of day 1's allotted time. the most important things that happen on day 1 post-claim, and we NEED time to analyse that/potentially switch and create a counterwagon or whatever else. so start voting people who are realistic wagons.
on this topic, i'm not sure what to think of elyse. initially i had her as quite town before bbmolla decided to conftown himself, and though i still find her zeal for that vote OK and not suspicious, it is concerning that she talks about willing to compromise and search for new targets yet has done nothing in the last 8 pages and STILL hasn't unvoted bbmolla despite acknowledging he isn't going to happen today.
i'm liking the composition of the vedith wagon: bbmolla, cmitc1 and house make for a fairly town trio, so i am going to jump on board given i don't have a town read on vedith.
VOTE: vedith
more to come...-
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Hoopla
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Hoopla
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Hoopla
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Hoopla
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i was on his wagon to begin with and promoting it along with elyse. i think he is town now based on the belief i think he is simply unable to (or wouldn't feel compelled to) melt down and resort to such defensive emotional appeals as scum. that is where i gained my read of him as town. the accusation that i'm treating him differently because he's a long-term user is laughable and shows you only see what you what you want to see.In post 345, Robbnva wrote:I really hate when long time users of this site refuse to vote other long term users of the site for what is obviously outside influences which is technically against the rules.
Just cause house and molla have been here a long time and you are probably chummy with them or have been at some point doesn't change the fact that what molla did can in no way be looked at as a town act. It can't even be looked at as a null act.
It was a delibarate and calculated deception.
we have different opinions about what is scummy and what looks town, that is natural and part of the game. but compromise is also part of the game when your target isn't a realistic chance and we have limited time. it's clear to me the window of time has closed for bbmolla's lynch d1, so you can chill on his wagon by yourself and essentially be a voteless player today or you can influence the game elsewhere. up to you.-
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Hoopla
- Posts: 10788
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i agree with this, except i will go one further and say this is actually suspicious. it looks like scum using the distraction that rob is creating to look good and be the voice of reason. and to be clear, it is rob who is fueling pretty much all of this - everyone else doesn't agree with him and is trying to reason/compromise with him.In post 358, House wrote:Put something up for discussion if you want to sideline the slapfest, don't just gripe about it.
It doesn't make me want to townread you by throwing out empty non-game related content complaining about non-game related content.-
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Hoopla
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Hoopla
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there are far too many underperforming players so far who i don't have much of a read on. thankfully, most of the people posting a lot i have town reads on, so i have something to work with here, but we need more from chaosomega, blankface, vedith, masquerade and wake88. add grendel to that list too considering most of his content centers around that list of questions.
i'm less sold on cmitc1 being very town for his innocent questioning after letting that digest for a while, but still won't consider lynching him today. bbmolla is town and rob probably is too. house i'm leaning town on, and for the most part i am liking what he's posting - he's logical and overall seems like a positive influence on the game. i always tend to get paranoia about players like this though, as they're usually quite deceptive as scum and are hard to lynch. but given there are so many lurkers and so much white noise and weird play going on, i'm not interesting in losing his stabilizing influence on the game any time soon.
everyone else i'm happy to see a wagon on and work it out as its going. i think this is what the game needs to propel it forward and get the lurkers posting.-
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Hoopla
- Posts: 10788
- Joined: October 12, 2008
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Hoopla
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rob has more than a quarter of the posts in a 13 player game. as far as i'm concerned, he's said his piece for today. we all pretty much know where he stands, so we don't need it repeated.
the only thing i'm really interested in hearing from him is an answer to this question from house:
because i'm sure this must happen on a regular basis for rob and i am genuinely curious how he rationalizes an absoutely certain scumread flipping town.In post 354, House wrote:Hey Robb, how do you react when the person you're 110% sure is scum flips town? Do you even try to apologize for being a gigantic waste of time, or do you play "blame the victim"?-
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Hoopla
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Hoopla
- Posts: 10788
- Joined: October 12, 2008
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Hoopla
- Posts: 10788
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Hoopla
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the problem is, what you consider scummy i don't consider scummy, and seemingly many others here don't.In post 440, Robbnva wrote:I see scummy behavior and I lynch scummy behavior. That's how i play mafia.
it is ok to disagree on things. it isn't ok to spaz out and be stubborn out of spite because you can't convince others of your perspective. learning to compromise is an important part of the game, because if everyone plays with your attitude we get nowhere when townies' opinions aren't overlapping completely.
you are the only one who thinks molla is scum. it's time to move on.-
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Hoopla
- Posts: 10788
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you're claiming stupidity?In post 463, House wrote:I immediately counter claim anything Robb claims.-
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Hoopla
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Hoopla
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Hoopla
- Posts: 10788
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Hoopla
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i haven't really been reading your posts recently, to be honest.In post 588, Robbnva wrote:Cmon hoopla if you are town you have to see house is clearly scum
but i'm sure whatever you're claiming happened, it's incorrect.-
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Hoopla
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he's still in my small pool of lynch targets, but his wagon has stalled recently, so i'm seeing if a blankface wagon will create some new buzz.In post 595, BBmolla wrote:Do you think Vedith is town now?
ideally i'd like a blankface/vedith wagon battle today.-
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Hoopla
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Hoopla
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gut feeling.In post 608, House wrote:@hoopla:
Why is Grendel in your maybe pile?
He's voting me because I prefer being scum over town, as if we can ask the mod for a preferred alignment before the game starts.
He's totally married to this silly assumption, and completely misreps my play to fit that theory.
i think his attempts to gain reads from his random questions is flawed but a genuinely attempt at scumhunting - it's abstract sure, but i tend to think scum don't do things like that as often. they tend to hunt in more conventional ways.-
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Hoopla
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*THIS IS THE FINAL POST I'M SAYING TO ROB*
Please stop drawing me and others into inane conversations that span multiple pages. It's antitown in so many ways because you can't let a conversation go by without you being at the center of it. BE QUIET and let others say their piece for once. Half the players are in perpetual catchup mode or disengaged with the game, and it's all your doing. You're making it not fun because you refuse to accept that any other player has differing opinions to you, and when they do, you make hyperbolic accusations that they're playing outside their wincon, are conspiring because of join-date or are being antitown.
This isn't cool and you do it in almost every game you play in. You have a long history of modkills, replacing out due to thinking the town is stupid and not being able to control your temper, self-hammering as town, and generally whining and complaining when things don't go your way.
You may think you're god's gift to mafia and your reads are better than everyone else's, but you still need to work with the town and persuade them, but whenever I or anyone else reads your posts, it does the exact opposite and makes me automatically believe the other side is probably correct because you simply have zero credibility.
A small collection of Rob's "100% scumread I CAUGHT YOU SCUM LIAR HAHAHAA oh wait you're town nevermind" moments:
Spoiler: Open 414 (flipped town)
Spoiler: Mini 1333 (a snapshot of a game-derailing argument with another townie)
Spoiler: Mini 1471 Another resort to accepting his lynch in order to get his target killed (townie btw, in case you didn't guess)
I'm not going to bother linking the modkills, ragequits, self-hammer as town and everything else. The point of this point is to show rob that you are indeed fallible and wrong sometimes. Admittedly you are also right occasionally, but so is a broken clock. The problem is when you are wrong, you single-handedly drag the game into the mire for town and allow the scum to hide in the distraction you're creating. Stop being so egotistical and putting your own reads above everyone else's and ACTUALLY LET THEM TALK without you saying your piece every page.
There are plenty of games where you catch people in so-called lies, or hypocrisies, but they turn out to be town. You have to look at the motivation behind why these things are happening. Should town lie? No. Should town hold contradictory opinions? No. But town also shouldn't do all of the stuff you do that I've listed above, yet lo and behold, you do it every game. I suspect if you were in a game with a clone of yourself, you'd be scumreading each other the entire game for the antitown bullshit you submit towns to.
I didn't want to post something like this until after the game, because I know it'll be a distraction now, but today is already a shambles so this is my last attempt to get through to rob and get him to chill out and stop derailing the game.
Anyways peace.-
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Hoopla
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Hoopla
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rob, i agree with this version of events.In post 664, House wrote:It's clear to anyone with a functioning brain stem (sorry to exclude you, but you did that here, not me) that I wanted you replaced and only accepted that you'd be modkilled AFTER YOU SAID IT WAS GOING TO HAPPEN.-
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Hoopla
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I agree, it's time to make this town great again.In post 669, BlankFace wrote:Can we please fucking move on now?
Blankface, who are your reads? I think I've lost them in the rubble.-
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Hoopla
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Hoopla
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Hoopla
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Hoopla
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I don't often get good scumreads on D1 and find an easier time spotting townies, so I have a tendency to push D1 wagons on anyone not-town - today is no exception given most of the player list simply hasn't posted enough.
You act as if Vedith or Blankface have been around to be interacted with at all. Blankface in particular has been asked for his reads instead of his refereeing several times, including by me, to no avail. I genuinely have no idea who he finds suspicious. Vedith doesn't really directly interact with me despite him voting for me - do you find that suspicious too? If so, why single me and Wake out?-
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Hoopla
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I'd probably slightly prefer Blankface as Vedith occasionally pops in to respond to the pressure, whereas Blankface isn't really doing anything at all.In post 744, Wake1 wrote:If you had to choose between Vedith or Blankface who would it be and why?
Where are you on Egg and Elyse Hoopla?
Egg has been flying under the radar and fits the stereotypical model of what I see a lot of scum doing on D1, though I have no specific instances of scumminess in any one post. I'd be more willing to check him out and interrogate him if he weren't going on V/LA now. A project for D2.
I thought Elyse was more town when I thought Molla was scum and she was interacting with him, now I think that isn't so true. My slight suspicion on Egg and Elyse are products of process of elimination in some ways, as I have a lot more town reads than usual so far. Annoyingly, Rob's flip doesn't really give us much more info at the moment, since I think we all knew he was town, so nothing has changed (except losing a good PR D1).
My personal preference early in the game is to lynch lurking or underperforming non-town looking players rather than someone like Elyse who is here regularly, as her alignment will be easier to discover in future days than someone like Blankface.-
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Hoopla
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this is essentially a matter of wifom at the moment, but i believe vedith would have fake-claimed a PR as scum here. he seems very much like a VT giving up to me - scum usually aren't so chill with their own demise.
i know towns don't have a tendency to let VT claims live, but it's exceedingly rare for scum to claim VT upon being the first wagon forced to claim. does anyone else share these sentiments?-
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Hoopla
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Hoopla
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Hoopla
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Hoopla
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Hoopla
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why...?
it's less than two days until deadline. make a choice.-
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Hoopla
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It's hard to tell how meaningful Vedith eclipsing Blankface's wagon is. My gut instinct is Blank is town too. There was a lot of movement and stalling between the two wagons, to the point where it seemed like scum didn't care which one died, which implies Blank is town. I think if he were scum, we'd have seen less of a challenge on Blank's wagon and Vedith's wagon would have been piled on more earlier when Blank was faint lynch risk. I find on D1 scum tend to be preventative like that, rather than letting it get to a stage where they need to choose between bussing or deliberately voting a town over an under pressure scum.-
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Hoopla
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Hoopla
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Personally, it just seemed like a classic VT-give up. There was no scum survival tendencies, which usually manifests itself with a PR roleclaim or a greater sense of desperation to escape the noose.In post 885, Elyse wrote:I found this a very strange reason to townread Vedith. It's weak, and she barely pushes it. For someone who championed either Vedith or BlankFace all day, her townread on Vedith should have made her go full steam ahead on BlankFace. It seemed to me like she wanted the Vedith lynch to still go through but didn't want to be associated with it.
The remainder of her posts on D1 are not urgent at all...the only thing she really does is tell cmit to make a choice, which is obvious for anyone to do at this point.
To be honest, I don't trust my (or other people's) scum reads on D1 before any claims or flips, so I tend to spend my time finding town and fostering compromise because I find this more meaningful on D1 -- we already had the game blow out because of one townies' unrelenting obsession with following their pet scumread, so I was in damage control mode. My influence of funneling the votes onto Vedith and Blankface was an attempt to further the game by adding more pressure to slots that actually had a chance of being lynched, and then to reevaluate upon their wagons building and/or roleclaim -- these two to me seemed to have the greatest air of suspicion over them, so I went with that.In post 885, Elyse wrote:She was the engineer behind the Vedith vs BlankFace deathmatch and didn't seem to care which one died. This would be fine if she scumread both of them, but she thought Vedith's claim made him town. So why was she content in saying "I think Vedith is probably town for his claim" and then remain silent and let him be lynched anyway?
tl;dr
Hoopla steered the lynches toward two townies, didn't care which one was lynched, made a half-assed defense of Vedith to make herself look better, and did nothing to stop her townread from being lynched. I expected more "GET YOUR VOTES ON BLANKFACE!" from her.
In hindsight, I regret not including Masquerade on this list too, but to achieve any meaningful information-yielding wagons, choosing more than two usually doesn't work as well. I maintain he seemed less suspected overall at that point in time, though, and the fact that nobody really hustled at all to include Masquerade in the wagon battle despite me ignoring him actually seems like a legitimately good reason for Masquerade being scum, even if it implicates me in the process.
As for my lack of urgency and yelling, again, I don't really have a defense for that other than to say it's not really my playstyle. In certain towns, channeling some manic energy to switch to an entirely new direction is sometimes possible, but there was no way this was happening in this town with so many people lurking. I will add, this whole deadline lynch scene is EXACTLY why I push for compromises on scumreads far earlier in the day than most, so we actually have time to switch once real information (wagons/claims) comes into the game. In the end we had to settle for a mediocre choose between two prob-townies, and it is true I didn't really care that much at that point.-
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Hoopla
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To summarise that brief paragraph on Masquerade in my last post. I think the fact nobody chimed in to bring Masquerade into the mix of competing wagons when I was trying to narrow the pool is very meaningful. If Blank was scum and Masq were town, I'd expect more resistance on a) the Blank/Vedith duel and b) not including Masq.
Masq scum/Blank town seems more likely based on how D1 panned out.
VOTE: Masquerade-
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Hoopla
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Hoopla
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