Mini 1972 - Friendship is Magic - Game over

[davesaz]

VOTE: Screenplay

[davesaz]

It probably means I've been sleeping.

[davesaz]

VOTE: screen play L-1

Not sure what to think about this. It seems so scummy that I can't see scum doing it.

I agree with this. I feel like it would be too obvious an action for scum and especially for experienced scum.

Scum might do it for exactly that reason. There is usually far more pressure on the hammer vote, especially if quick. And if it's a bus they get to use it as an argument against being a partner for the rest of the game.

[davesaz]

well im telling you rn theres 1 scum between beef, oddmusic and screenplay... at LEAST one scum that is.

There is certainly a potential scum motivation for a post like this. I lean toward not saying what it makes me think of, to see if anyone else comes up with it.
It's weak anyway, and there are valid town reasons too.

[davesaz]

^ I don’t like this reaction to being wagonned early. If screenplay were town I would expect more confusion than...annoyance I guess.

And no screen we don’t have enough to lynch you. But for an early wagon out of the random stages making 2 entirely contentless posts is a good start

Not really a fan of this post. His reaction didn't seem out of the ordinary at all.

Not out of the ordinary for anyone, or specifically for Screenplay?

[davesaz]

Jordaxq and Beef look very town early.

I'm curious to hear what wave and Dunn think of all this (two others who were on the screen wagon).

how is beef town?

Not just town, but “Very” town.

I second the question -- what made beef "very" town at that point in time?

[davesaz]

Good Grief. Can we just Lynch scum Screen already?

Have you said why you think Screen is scum?

[davesaz]

davesaz, Dunnstral, and Innocent have been awfully quiet... Just sayin'.

I noticed you left off wavemode. Probably just an oversight?

[davesaz]

Have you been reading the game wavemode?

[davesaz]

My comment was in reply to 134. An answer to the question in that post can be found within the thread.

[davesaz]

Well, it's kinda indirect, but if you iso Maki there is a mention of a similar concept.
I'm being a bit obtuse on purpose to see if you're actually reading.

[davesaz]

Screenplay, how do you feel about tchill?

[davesaz]

That answer is correct by theory but it’s not ai.

[davesaz]

Is it better to ask people questions aimed at finding out the reason behind their posting, or assume what their reason was?

[davesaz]

Wavemode asked Maki how long she's been playing forum mafia, apparently having failed to notice a post saying she's an alt of a pretty experienced player, and tried to brush off questions about that.
I don't see casting shade on someone based on lack of experience to be a very townie thing to do.

[davesaz]

I'm a little concerned about how reluctant Davesaz seems to be about contributing. Most of his posts are just asking everyone else what they think. Maki Harukawa also seems to be a little guarded.

Thanks for the reply in 122. Was the point you made about oddmusic sufficient for a read? What do you think about his other posts? (I haven't looked but probably will so I can compare what I get from it to your answer). And see my post a couple back.

[davesaz]

^ I don’t like this reaction to being wagonned early. If screenplay were town I would expect more confusion than...annoyance I guess.

And no screen we don’t have enough to lynch you. But for an early wagon out of the random stages making 2 entirely contentless posts is a good start

Not really a fan of this post. His reaction didn't seem out of the ordinary at all.

VOTE: Havo
Ducked both my questions, as far as I can tell.

[davesaz]

The one time I think I don't need to preview.
Checked it for multiquote anticipating there being another to quote it with, and then changed my mind.

[davesaz]

Please pick a good one and explain why it's good.

[davesaz]

Getting a pass from scrutiny, or lynch?

[davesaz]

4 scum reads, no accurate / concrete reasons stated for any of them. Nice job there. (inaccurate reasons don't count)
I'd vote this but I feel that rapid vote changes just deny town reactions from the earlier ones.

[davesaz]

As for throwing shade on someone Becton lack of experience.... That comes off as NAI to me. More egotistical than to do with the game itself Imo.

If this is referring to the line I was pursuing, my issue is not with asking about experience, it is with evading the question when called on it. And to an extent that exchange revealed a lack of attention to the game a little like a hit and run, which is also scum indicative.

[davesaz]

Getting a pass from scrutiny, or lynch?

Maki / Screenplay -- ^?

[davesaz]

Obviously I'm going to see your "reasons" on me as inaccurate, since they are. I'm a "two ears one mouth" kinda guy. But I don't see a tunnel as useful. If you're scum then town will see it.
A bigger issue is the missing reasons on the others you cited. Care to explain? I'm not gonna attempt to read your mind.

[davesaz]

Keep the fishing gear in the tackle box plz.

[davesaz]

My mind says nulltown but my heart says null somehow because some stuff seems weird and I don't know with which of those two to go for now.

This hits me as a place where you wanted to say something else but then couldn't figure out how to say it. What you ended up with was mind and heart thinking roughly the same thing which seems odd to state them both. Trying to hide something?

[davesaz]

Prod dodge from work.

Well I can see this is going to be another 2 week day 1. SMH.

We were so close. It’s a shame.

Doubling down on ending day 1 early, very interesting. Can we wagon this?

[davesaz]

The real optimum is between. Wagon motion is important. Response to wagons are important. But there is nothing inherently wrong with forging ahead after some data is generated. And it’s not true that scum are never caught day 1.

[davesaz]

>When your top tr is the biggest wagon jesus

I find it amusing when people scumread someone for the exact same things that I'm townreading them for.

[davesaz]

Town

[davesaz]

^ I don’t like this reaction to being wagonned early. If screenplay were town I would expect more confusion than...annoyance I guess.

And no screen we don’t have enough to lynch you. But for an early wagon out of the random stages making 2 entirely contentless posts is a good start

Wat.

Lynching scum is mandatory if you want to win.

VOTE: Tchill

and i just "feel" like screen is pretending not to care. so yeah thats my lynch pool.

well you make reading my mind seem as hard as reading my iso of 30 posts. the first 2 quotes come off as easy "im town guys look at me" plays with fake motivation and screen didn't react well to being run up on pg 2. came off to me as he pretended not to care. As for Dave he was recently scum in game that he lurked and only asked questions. "2 ears one mouth" will not work as an excuse for me at least.

Had you previously stated any of this in the thread? After the fact can just as easily be finding a reason to support the baseless "reads" you gave earlier.

[davesaz]

Town

Oddmusic, Maki Harukawa, Beefster

Leaning town

Srceenplay, Jodaxq

Null

Davesaz, Havo, WaveMode

Scummy

HeWhoSwims, Tchill13, UC Voyager

This is where I'm at right now, and I feel good about all my town reads, I'd like to lynch one of HeWhoSwims, Tchill13, and UC Voyager.

HeWhoSwims reads as pretty scummy tonally to me, I look at them and keep thinking they;re scum, Also the only places they've pushed/brought attention to so far is people I think have a better chance at being town than scum

Wavemode's reads list looks nothing like mine but I'm ignoring that for now, they're null for me, I don't have much of an opinion

The majority of Tchill's iso is complaining about day 1, complaining about using other isos, and other fluff etc. Srceenplay brought up a good point where Tchill acting pretty different in another game.

UC Voyager hasn't done anything yet, though them saying "are we really out of rvs" seemed pretty scummy

How do you get a town read on oddmusic?
Why would asking if we're out of RVS be scummy?

[davesaz]

>When your top tr is the biggest wagon jesus

>When your top tr is the biggest wagon jesus

I find it amusing when people scumread someone for the exact same things that I'm townreading them for.

This is the first time I'm hearing of this

First time you're hearing of what?

[davesaz]

Here's why I like beef. I guess it would help to actually say it.

davesaz, Dunnstral, and Innocent have been awfully quiet... Just sayin'.

I noticed you left off wavemode. Probably just an oversight?

No. He posted a couple times recently from that point. I mean more than just the chainsaw he posted on the first page.

Direct replies to questions are good.

Good Grief. Can we just Lynch scum Screen already?

Someone is a little eager. You really want a night phase don't you?

This is a good thing to question. Scum would silently hope for that hammer, unless it's on a bud. So keeping this in mind if screen flips scum, but otherwise town.

TChill: Policy lynch? Really? I still don't see what's so scummy about srceen. Could you explain yourself?

Havo def looks scummy, or at least eager/erratic. I'm going to stick with my vote for now though.

Maki also seems a little off. Her reasoning is a bit sparse. I don't follow her logic.

*gasp* a pressure vote. I'm

sooo

scared. Good luck with that.

Response to being voted, didn't check timestamps to see if that last line is a pedit or part of the overall post.

I'm fine with follow up questions so long as you answer the original question... or at the very least not deflect/reverse questions.

Doesn't ask questions and let them drop, which shows he needs the answers to read people (vs already knowing and just looking for either confirmation or a slip to hang someone with).

Sorry. My bad. Missed that.

I guess we have two separate camps of thinking. Just remember that days are not discrete events. Sure, if you compare the beginning of day 1 to the beginning of day 2, day 2 has more information. Thing is, night doesn't bring much new information to the table. Sure, there are results from cops and whatnot, but they're guessing blindly if you end day 1 too soon. But I guess confirming town is still useful, so there's that. Aside from information gained from power roles, all that night gains the town is a smaller pool to choose from for finding scum. Isn't it better to have both that

and

data from the day before?

I don't think we necessarily need a full two weeks, but I don't think we should be rushing ourselves either.

Admissions of mistakes tend to be town, and a mindset on lynch speed that I see as town (though playstyle factors and therefore it's a weak indicator).

lol. I'm dumb. Looking over your posts in isolation, I realized I'm wildly wrong. I definitely remembered things wrong.

UNVOTE:

Again a straightforward and sincere looking admission of a mistake.

[davesaz]

Screenplay's post near death play has not been good at all. I'd think town in that position would want to dig at the wagon.
I was a fan of getting more interaction before a lynch, but would not object to going back here eventually.

[davesaz]

So who's it gonna be.... Screen or beef?

I prefer Screen. But apparently I’ve scared everyone off him. (You’ welcome Screen)

Beef works for me also tho. So ......

VOTE: Beef

I don't see a foundation for this vote, please explain.

Also scum feels on Tchill trying to paint it as an either/or so early in the day.

[davesaz]

While I still disagree somewhat on how to handle day 1's, the reason I was scumreading Havo is largely gone.
UNVOTE:

Kinda want to vote oddmusic but doing it now would be rude to the incoming replacement. No hurry there.
Wavemode too but respecting the vla as reason for his posting gap.
I Am Innocent seems very narrow minded. If it weren't for the join date I would have had a gut noob read there. Some reads on other people would be nice, I can't get an alignment off what has been posted so far.

[davesaz]

I like Toranaga's read in.
If it's an act, it's a good one. Can't rule that out.
I think it's real enough to call it town.

[davesaz]

@mod: have fun! My wife and I am taking her sister to see it for her birthday next week. Please don't spill any spoilers.

[davesaz]

dave voted screenplay and didn't unvote him while he kept pushing tchill

doesn't read like he is genuinely scumhunting

I think swims made towny posting here and there, dave didn't

Factually incorrect, try reading again.

[davesaz]

I can do that, Toranaga totally misrepresented what I did and it isn't all that hard to read. I kinda expected some kind of retraction by now.
VOTE: Toranaga

[davesaz]

The count was l-2, not l-1 when I returned to the thread. The VC is only a couple posts before, and clearly shows that.
At that point I don't know if screenplay is town or scum who dodged a bullet. And my comment does not say that tchill is scum, it merely says that it should not be discounted.

Spoiler: details

Official Vote Count

Srceenplay

(5): davesaz, wavemode, Dunnstral, Havo, Tchill13

Tchill13

(3): UC Voyager, Srceenplay, Beefster

wavemode

(1): Maki Harukawa

Maki Harukawa

(1): HeWhoSwims

Havo

(1): oddmusic

Not Voting

(2): I Am Innocent, Jodaxq

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2017-12-25 15:43:11)

VOTE: screen play L-1

Not sure what to think about this. It seems so scummy that I can't see scum doing it.

I agree with this. I feel like it would be too obvious an action for scum and especially for experienced scum.

Scum might do it for exactly that reason. There is usually far more pressure on the hammer vote, especially if quick. And if it's a bus they get to use it as an argument against being a partner for the rest of the game.

[davesaz]

I think dave can help town a lot when he is town just based off his posting style

Ah, here's the reason. I'm a threat.

[davesaz]

ok but you are talking about it as if you think this is a L-1 vote anyway

I missed this wasn't actually L-1 so :shrug: but it's still odd you didn't unvote there

what's your read on screenplay

Oh, I'm pretty sure tchill's vote was a L-1 -- but someone else had unvoted already. Unless I bought into it having been L-1 incorrectly.
The entire point of that post was to dispel the notion that scum won't put someone at L-1 in early game. Unlikely that I would have a true read on anyone that early in the game.

I'll get back to you on my current screenplay read. My focus went elsewhere and I tuned it out.

Pedit: You're the one who townread me and then flipped it for a totally bogus reason.
I've seen you before, in a game where one or both of us replaced in. TBH I don't remember much.

[davesaz]

I can see how you might have that opinion, if you thought that I thought that it was an L-1 still; and that I was actually after tchill.
In that light it is not a misrep, merely a misunderstanding.
UNVOTE:

I'd like to know what's up with all the vote hopping. It gives me the heebiejeebies. Could just be a style thing...

[davesaz]

Screenplay is giving some opinions, but doing it in a way that seems passive to me.
Not sure how to deal with that.

[davesaz]

I don't place much faith in team hunting before flips. In the absence of a neon sign I think team hunting prunes the lynch pool too drastically.
I didn't like wavemode's posting and he would be in my lynch pool, but I was planning to wait for his return. Waiting for the oddmusic replacement turned out to be the right move.

In the meantime there is other sorting to be done.
VOTE: Dunnstral

[davesaz]

well im telling you rn theres 1 scum between beef, oddmusic and screenplay... at LEAST one scum that is.

There is certainly a potential scum motivation for a post like this. I lean toward not saying what it makes me think of, to see if anyone else comes up with it.
It's weak anyway, and there are valid town reasons too.

dave in this post, if I recall correctly neither beef nor oddmusic were wagoning screenplay, and you're reading into it that maybe scum!tchill is trying to make villagers go against each other cause they're scared of the conditional read being created here, yes?

what are the valid town reasons you're seeing for this, though?

You can read the targets alignment by observing how they react to being listed in a "one of these is scum" list with no foundation.

[davesaz]

I don't place much faith in team hunting before flips. In the absence of a neon sign I think team hunting prunes the lynch pool too drastically.
I didn't like wavemode's posting and he would be in my lynch pool, but I was planning to wait for his return. Waiting for the oddmusic replacement turned out to be the right move.

In the meantime there is other sorting to be done.
VOTE: Dunnstral

This vote seems extremely out of place for what's going on in the game.

What do you think the purpose of the vote is?

[davesaz]

So tempting to be mysterious and ask what you think "other sorting to be done" means.

I don't feel like I have a solid handle on Dunnstral. I thought poking him might help. Kinda figured this would be obvious. A bonus would be to find out if anyone acts concerned about it.

[davesaz]

20 posts over several days
gets scumread by someone
22 posts in 7 hours

pedit: 23

[davesaz]

Like for real, I have a demanding job, family with 4 kids, coach two right now for basketball.

You attack my lack of participation again and we’re going to have issues.

If this was to me, ok that's fine and I have reacted the same way in the past. Two kids, my clients are large banks who demand answers to problems

right now

, only 2 kids but I'm an assistant scoutmaster and have recently started driving the other to her new job. I often deal with the expected flak by putting a RL explanation in my first return post. YMMV, just sharing what works (sometimes).

Your posting shows a progression that looks like game solving. I can't give you (or anyone) a pass for that because it can be faked, but you're not first on my priority list.

[davesaz]

Beefster, there was a lot of movement in those posts, hard to tell what things you think were reaching.
I thought specifically that jumping on Tor early in the catchup felt organic, it means that Innocent was posting as he went, and not going back to make up points.

[davesaz]

Ok. Pushed me for L-1. Threw or agreed with shade against me for my screen compliment in another game, pushed me for high horse attitude. If anyone falls underneath these categories you're a scum lean. If you fall under all 3 you're scum. You know what scum love more than anything? Any cases against people that are actually town that make sense, are easy to push with fake ambition and make the one pushing the case look towny. All 3 of those reasons apply to that philosophy. That being said I'll leave it up to all the other players to distinguish who falls into those categories and if that philosophy is worth working with. The players that it doesn't apply to of course.

For the love someone comment on why I'm not correct about this. Stop ignoring it.

I'll give you a comment. You can't make a broad strokes kinda post like this without saying who it is you think fit under these categories. You could be talking about a bunch of people, or nobody.

[davesaz]

I didn't like wavemode's posting and he would be in my lynch pool, but I was planning to wait for his return.

Bzzt, time has expired.
VOTE: wavemode

[davesaz]

Lurking isn't the reason for me. What townie can justify a naked reads list on post 125?

[davesaz]

Having that many reads that early is what's scummy. It would be a lot of work to verify, but it's entirely possible at least one person hadn't posted anything of substance that early.

[davesaz]

tbh, my reads are

townie
UCV of coarse (unless i miss read my role PM. lol. that would suck.)

Town lean
Toranga
Dunn

Null
no one actually

Scum lean
screenplay
jodax

I went looking for reads from UCV and found only this. Maybe a "tchill town" in a post after that point.

VOTE: UC Voyager

L-1 I think

[davesaz]

Those are both good questions, seconded.

[davesaz]

Begging for there to be a vig? That's crazy talk man, why bring up a vig at all in this situation?

[davesaz]

Keep the fishing gear in the tackle box plz.

[davesaz]

I'm getting to the point where I think tchill could indeed be scum trying to act too scummy.

[davesaz]

I think Beef and Dunn look town here, tchill is still scum trying to get the claimed masons lynched.
Not NKing masons fits rather well with trying to get them lynched. Too well, but I don't think we can discount that possibility.
Furthermore there is the thing about asking why a vig would kill Jodaxq, when there isn't any evidence there even is one.

I was busy today and only skimmed. Lemme know if you'd like me to take a closer look at anything specific.

[davesaz]

I was tired when I posted last night and wanted to reread first.
Rereading didn't change what I saw.

VOTE: Tchill13

[davesaz]

I would happily sit down and have a chat with you but right now you're acting like a 14 year old brat

I think it's an act to "get out of scumreads free".

[davesaz]

Maki, thoughts on the theory that tchill is acting that way on purpose as scum?

[davesaz]

Also I thought you didn't think Screen is scum? Or was it Havo's read on Screen that you were questioning?
And typo in the vote, so the automatic votecounter may not pick it up.

[davesaz]

Following up...

Also I thought you didn't think Screen is scum?

Did I? I think he's a good info lynch plus I have him in a 1/2 with IAI

Yes, I did see this.

VOTE: Innocent
screen is the best info lynch but I think 1 of these 2 is scum but not both given interactions

But then I saw this.

Why is screen scum. Make a case in your next post Havo.

So it made me think that Screen is "just" an info lynch to you.
It's more a question of why Havo thinks screen is scum then?

[davesaz]

Can we wait for claims before lynching today?

And this srceenplay wagon is bad.

Why are you voting it, davesaz

?

The underlined was patently false -- I was voting tchill and never expressed a scumread on screenplay d2. Maybe people discounted this post because of that?

[davesaz]

If Dunn is a GS, I agree with the N1 shot but the N2 shot is bad on so many levels it's hard to express.
I don't see why it's not a safe fakeclaim, unless you're implying fakeclaiming the shots on living players is unsafe. But fakeclaims on dead people are always safe.

I don't know where the idea of MB came from. With only one kill per night it doesn't make sense. Trying to make up a reason for town to have power is nuts.
Tchill made a post about 3 PRs and masons. But IIRC only 2 PRs (plus masons) are known -- where did the idea of a 3rd come from?

[davesaz]

VT.

[davesaz]

VOTE: tchill13
If anything, a mason flip makes it more likely he's scum.

[davesaz]

Dude, it's not omgus when I've thought you were scum all along.

[davesaz]

It used to bug me that people would try to use activity/effort to make cases on me, but I've largely gotten over it.
Yes, I choose not to scream my position every 10 posts like some people.
I comment when there is something worth commenting on.

[davesaz]

I don't have this game committed fully to memory -- it should be obvious given the holidays but just saying. I'll dump out what I think I do remember, now that I'm not suffering from daily dozens of holiday-induced interruptions (being the only driver in a family of 4 is very taxing, lemme tell you ).

davesaz - Town by role PM

HeWhoSwims - Nagging feeling that not many opinions have been fresh, and I do remember at least once where a post looked like he was trying to make a point but the opposite point of view slipping through in an awkward phrasing. Could be scum, needs a reread to improve read accuracy

Toranaga - Mason

wavemode - non entity who flaked. Looked scummy while he was here.

Beefster - I think that I thought town but don't really remember why. I have to reread some stuff.

Tchill13 - I think he's scum, from the screen and mason pushes.

I Am Innocent - Town read from perceived sincerity in 1:1 interactions. Uncertainty from a feeling there have been some strong positions which look good because they're strong, but aren't game influencing.

Havo - D1 I saw a lot of pushing for a lynch, but at the same time the way that was pushed seemed to be trying to avoid responsibility for the results. (That is, wanted a fast lynch, didn't seem to care if it hit town or scum, but disclaiming responsibility for that aspect of the result). I don't remember much of what he's done since then, not because he wasn't doing but because I wasn't really tracking.

Dunnstral - If I ignore the claim, it looks like scum to me. Taking the claim into effect, less likely to be scum but I don't think I'd want to bet a lylo on it when we come to that point.

Pending some reading:
davesaz, toranaga
beef, Innocent
Dunn, Havo, HWS
tchill, wave

[davesaz]

That memory dump was an incomplete what I remembered of my reads, but not the why of that remembrance.
But thanks for questioning it, you win the prize for who I'll re-read first.

[davesaz]

Here's what triggered me.

Maki is right with her Beefster read

Maki wasn't the only one who had read Beefster as town here, but you single her out for praise. Neither of you give any reason that I noticed. (TBH I also townread beef and might not have given a reason either.

that maki vote from beef then quick unvote is suspicious.

Why is it suspicious

Don't remember this question generating anything, and don't remember it being followed up on. I might have missed it though.

Maki why is tchill just 'terrible' but not mafia?

Why do you think votes on wavemode are better?

I don't think wagons stalling is a valid answer, because I don't think that's actually happened yet.

More focus on Maki even though other stuff is happening.

But Maki, the wagon on Tchill is only Uc Voyager, me, and Beefster, I don't know who you're describing here besides UC Voyager, but I don't think that's enough to not lynch them. In fact, there's a lot of people against the tchill lynch

Either this is a strong townread you're talking to, or you're trying to buddy. At this point we don't have flips yet and given your other activity to this point I'm leaning toward buddying -> scum.

I voted you sometime after this point to see if that would either shake out a chainsaw from a partner or help resolve the weak scumread, and from what I remember not much happened as a result. I came away from day 1 with a weak scumread on you.

[davesaz]

Dunn also posted several times d1 after the mason claim, but didn't react either to the claim nor to the way that tchill treated it.

[davesaz]

Dunn also posted several times d1 after the mason claim, but didn't react either to the claim nor to the way that tchill treated it.

Here's my reaction to the mason claim:

I don't think it's a good idea for other roles to out with a doctor dead

That's a

day 2

reaction.
I'm talking about how we spent half of

day 1

discussing a mason claim and you didn't react to it at all that day.

[davesaz]

Dunn also posted several times d1 after the mason claim, but didn't react either to the claim nor to the way that tchill treated it.

Here's my reaction to the mason claim:

I don't think it's a good idea for other roles to out with a doctor dead

That's a

day 2

reaction.
I'm talking about how we spent half of

day 1

discussing a mason claim and you didn't react to it at all that day.

But why would I react to it day 1? There was no doctor dead, and no other pr softs. Note again that I wouldn't actually have a reason to fake claim as scum

It was the

main topic of conversation

and you ignored it.

[davesaz]

^ I don’t like this reaction to being wagonned early. If screenplay were town I would expect more confusion than...annoyance I guess.

And no screen we don’t have enough to lynch you. But for an early wagon out of the random stages making 2 entirely contentless posts is a good start

Not really a fan of this post. His reaction didn't seem out of the ordinary at all.

VOTE: Havo
Ducked both my questions, as far as I can tell.

ah cool, dave. I can see you voted havo but later on the gameday you had him as a null. wonder how that progression goes...

TBH the progression goes "I don't really pay attention to him well enough." I even said as much in my reads dump.

That probably means that I liked what he posted enough to not be very suspicious of it, but thought enough was wrong to not overtly townread. And another topic (tchill) caught my eye to the point that there wasn't extra attention to spare.

[davesaz]

I’m usually against lurker lynches but serial lurking slots are scum more often than not.

I’m not quite sure what the actual case on me is. Civ, behind the mask, elemental trinity are good examples of my town meta if anyone cares to look. I’m intermittent and mostly scumhunt off inconsistency. Occasional meta hits if someone in the game has a tell I can recognize. Wrong maybe, but town.

[davesaz]

Wave and then Psyche feel like the lyrics to "Dirty Laundry".

We can do "The Innuendo"
We can dance and sing
When it's said and done we haven't told you a thing
We all know that Crap is King
Give us dirty laundry!

And not finding what they're looking for.

[davesaz]

Tchill is still scum. Psyche/wave probably, dunn possibly.

[davesaz]

That doesn't keep Scum!Dunn from claiming GS in a game which doesn't even have one.

[davesaz]

VOTE: Psyche

[davesaz]

I think it's more likely Psyche is just scum, and don't really see much reason to even suspect a SK(*). I think your analysis that it's good to lynch a SK if there is one is correct.

(*) No extra kill results in SK doubt, but it can't be ruled out because one way to play SK is to not kill so nobody suspects there is one -- especially in a closed setup. And matching kill targets / orders not submitted are also possible.

[davesaz]

Sorry about the delay. I've been having to drive around a bunch taking my kids various places, and work has been busy.

I withheld some information when we were claiming yesterday. There wouldn't have been any town benefit and plenty of chance for scum to work around it.
I'm a

night 3 watcher

, and caught

Dunnstral

making the kill on Toranaga.
This means we get a chance at a 3:2 tomorrow instead of possibly losing today with a mislynch.

VOTE: Dunnstral

I think you're on the right track with Beef.

[davesaz]

Look asshole, when I say I've been busy it means I've been busy!
It's my first post of this day phase for exactly the reason I gave. I didn't even check PMs until that point.
If you want to throw the game by entertaining lynching me, that's on you.
HWS

might

be scum but I'd prefer the one actually identified by an action, TYVM.
Those who survive the night can fight over the next lynch.

[davesaz]

Why would someone with an unused investigative action claim it, outside of L-1?
Especially in this situation, with a really obvious kill target to watch...

I thought hard about it being a quasi-CC to a gunsmith, but thought it was possible both roles are present and maybe mafia has a GF and a ninja. I decided to err on the side of safety.

Pedit: Really man, I'm wounded. I play scummy enough to not be sniffed out by maf, barely town enough to not be lynched, and this is how you react. Really?

[davesaz]

If you're town unvote. If you're scum nice claim.

[davesaz]

When did you check your PM?

5ish minutes before I posted maybe?
I checked the flip and the rest of the thread, and typed up the post.

[davesaz]

I don't have this game committed fully to memory -- it should be obvious given the holidays but just saying. I'll dump out what I think I do remember, now that I'm not suffering from daily dozens of holiday-induced interruptions (being the only driver in a family of 4 is very taxing, lemme tell you ).

davesaz - Town by role PM

HeWhoSwims - Nagging feeling that not many opinions have been fresh, and I do remember at least once where a post looked like he was trying to make a point but the opposite point of view slipping through in an awkward phrasing. Could be scum, needs a reread to improve read accuracy

Toranaga - Mason

wavemode - non entity who flaked. Looked scummy while he was here.

Beefster - I think that I thought town but don't really remember why. I have to reread some stuff.

Tchill13 - I think he's scum, from the screen and mason pushes.

I Am Innocent - Town read from perceived sincerity in 1:1 interactions. Uncertainty from a feeling there have been some strong positions which look good because they're strong, but aren't game influencing.

Havo - D1 I saw a lot of pushing for a lynch, but at the same time the way that was pushed seemed to be trying to avoid responsibility for the results. (That is, wanted a fast lynch, didn't seem to care if it hit town or scum, but disclaiming responsibility for that aspect of the result). I don't remember much of what he's done since then, not because he wasn't doing but because I wasn't really tracking.

Dunnstral - If I ignore the claim, it looks like scum to me. Taking the claim into effect, less likely to be scum but I don't think I'd want to bet a lylo on it when we come to that point.

Pending some reading:
davesaz, toranaga
beef, Innocent
Dunn, Havo, HWS
tchill, wave

I think town watcher Dave does not give town points for Dunn’s GS claim here either...

I don't know if I'm arguing with Dunn's scumbuddy or misguided town, but here goes. (If town, you should unvote btw, this could be lylo)

Given lack of information to the contrary, I tend to believe claims, or at least give them weight. I haven't liked any of the discussion on setup and balance, because in a closed setup it's all gambler's fallacy. Just because games tend to have X and not Y never means that they must have X and can't have Y. Jumping to conclusions narrows the scumpool too quickly. I'd be all over it in an open or semi-open setup where the available combinations of roles are known. But here, trends are not enough to make a firm decision on.

Like I said, being a specific-night tracker doesn't preclude a limited-shot gunsmith. In some possible setups (like GF+ninja) the roles are complementary. In others having both gives town too much power. No way to know back then. Now we have a hard guilty.

[davesaz]

I claimed

at the first moment I had results

!!!!
Being under suspicion is meaningless you dolts!!
Drop the confbias for once, jeez...

[davesaz]

I can totally see how taking it easy and biding my time until the role is useful looked. (protestations to the contrary notwithstanding)
It's always hard to ride the line between useless enough to never become scum's priority to eliminate, while still being useful enough to never be town's priority to lynch.