Mini Normal 1969 - Blessed Mafia (Werewolf Win)
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Quick Jack of All Trades
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viewtopic.php?p=9778910#p9778910
Due to this I am going to try and play a little differently this game. Going for quality over quantity, in other words.-
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Quick Jack of All Trades
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Is that like a IC delayed until D2 or something?In post 17, WhyMafia wrote:Hard claiming that I will be confirmed town tomorrow-
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OK, so some thoughts that have happened.
Thoughts on Espe:
Their claim could be a WIFOM move as Scum to keep people from talking about things that actually matter in the game. I've done similar things as Scum. That said, I know Espe is just coming back to Mafia after a long hiatus so it could just be that they are excited to get back into the game so it could just be that they want to stir things up.
Jay's unvote of Archwing is ??? same goes for Archwing's vote and unvote.-
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Quick Jack of All Trades
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What is your point. I barely remember that game. Vedith won.In post 89, Espeonage wrote:To quick. Go check out newbie together and tell me that being a dick is alignment indicative for me.
And then yell at wingbro to engage with me
Being a dick is NAI.-
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Quick Jack of All Trades
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What about it?In post 98, Espeonage wrote:
Not that one. The one where I was Doc and broke the game and made Nacho vote himself.In post 96, Quick wrote:
What is your point. I barely remember that game. Vedith won.In post 89, Espeonage wrote:To quick. Go check out newbie together and tell me that being a dick is alignment indicative for me.
And then yell at wingbro to engage with me
Being a dick is NAI.-
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Quick Jack of All Trades
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I agree with the Archwing read.
VOTE: Archwing
Should have done this straight away, but I was kinda thinking I wanted to play a wait and see approach.-
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Quick Jack of All Trades
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You really think I should be taking a stance on you at this point?In post 112, Espeonage wrote:
This is characteristically me.In post 88, Quick wrote:OK, so some thoughts that have happened.
Thoughts on Espe:
Their claim could be a WIFOM move as Scum to keep people from talking about things that actually matter in the game. I've done similar things as Scum. That said, I know Espe is just coming back to Mafia after a long hiatus so it could just be that they are excited to get back into the gameso it could just be that they want to stir things up.
Jay's unvote of Archwing is ??? same goes for Archwing's vote and unvote.
I only really care because I wanted to bounce off you, but I have Smart for that, so all g dw.
However, looking back on this. You don't take a stance and soft a scum read on both myself AND Archwing. What's up with that?
Both Arch and Jay are my Scum reads at this point. I felt Jay took the RP a little too far, but that's pretty weak.-
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Yeah, I should have voted Arch or Jay in my opening post. Just seemed kinda weird to lead off with a serious vote when it hadn't even been 24 hours yet. Like I said, I was just giving my thoughts on the game so far. I was going into this game with a wait and see approach which I talked about kinda pre-game.In post 117, Espeonage wrote:
No, but the post reads like you did.In post 115, Quick wrote:
You really think I should be taking a stance on you at this point?In post 112, Espeonage wrote:
This is characteristically me.In post 88, Quick wrote:OK, so some thoughts that have happened.
Thoughts on Espe:
Their claim could be a WIFOM move as Scum to keep people from talking about things that actually matter in the game. I've done similar things as Scum. That said, I know Espe is just coming back to Mafia after a long hiatus so it could just be that they are excited to get back into the gameso it could just be that they want to stir things up.
Jay's unvote of Archwing is ??? same goes for Archwing's vote and unvote.
I only really care because I wanted to bounce off you, but I have Smart for that, so all g dw.
However, looking back on this. You don't take a stance and soft a scum read on both myself AND Archwing. What's up with that?
Both Arch and Jay are my Scum reads at this point. I felt Jay took the RP a little too far, but that's pretty weak.
You accuse three people without really going for any of them.-
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Uzi does naked votes as both Town and Scum. If he ends up giving a reason, that's a better sign.In post 118, JaydragonKing wrote:...
*Sigh*
Fiiiiiine. I'd still like to be called Elsa though. That part is completely serious.
Not unvoting though. He literally just voted for me without even giving a reason of his own.
So how about it, Uzi? You have the floor and my personal attention.
--- Post Edit ---
Oh what the hell. I don't get to RP but he gets to post GIFS? Screw it, I'm going to flip flop in doing serious and roleplay.-
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Quick Jack of All Trades
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Just quoting this to see if WhyMafia is full of shit or not.In post 20, Quick wrote:
Is that like a IC delayed until D2 or something?In post 17, WhyMafia wrote:Hard claiming that I will be confirmed town tomorrow-
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Wait, Tulpa or Hydra? Unless I am misunderstanding something???In post 74, JaydragonKing wrote:Don't mind Una. This is our second game together, and I was only with him for a day before he was lynched, but He's always suspicious of others with Pokemon icons.
And since I joined this game without even knowing what format this is, can someone tell me that? There could be one mafia or twelve for all I know. I don't even know all the possible roles.
Help your Queen, please.-
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Quick Jack of All Trades
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Uh... Why do you think???In post 126, WhyMafia wrote:
Why does it matter to you?In post 124, Quick wrote:
Just quoting this to see if WhyMafia is full of shit or not.In post 20, Quick wrote:
Is that like a IC delayed until D2 or something?In post 17, WhyMafia wrote:Hard claiming that I will be confirmed town tomorrow
VOTE: Quick-
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Quick Jack of All Trades
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Since when is WIFOM good for Town?In post 131, WhyMafia wrote:
If I'm gambiting town, I get to eat the NK from potentially a PRIn post 128, Quick wrote:
Uh... Why do you think???In post 126, WhyMafia wrote:
Why does it matter to you?In post 124, Quick wrote:
Just quoting this to see if WhyMafia is full of shit or not.In post 20, Quick wrote:
Is that like a IC delayed until D2 or something?In post 17, WhyMafia wrote:Hard claiming that I will be confirmed town tomorrow
VOTE: Quick
If I'm telling the truth, you'll find out tomorrow
If I'm scum and have not been confirmed town, you lynch me based on the play
Why in any of these scenarios would you want a definitive answer-
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His response to me was kinda Townie. I didn't like his vote on me, but aggression more often comes from Town, player depending ofc.
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So would I.In post 151, Archwing wrote:I would like Flavor Leaf to respond-
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VOTE: Jay
I feel better here for the time being. Arch has shown some Townie thought process' so feeling better about that slot.
Flavor, explain to the class why WIFOM is a good thing for Town.
Didn't think I would be doing this so soon, but WTH, why not?
{Archwing, Flavor}
{Uzi, WhyMafia}
{Espe, Somthing Smart}
{Lurkers, Dunk}
{Chill}
{Una, Jay}-
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Naked vote, bud, you know that can't fly with me considering you have been wrong on me a lot.
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OK. What do you make of my TR on WM?In post 187, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:
Don’t like your interactions with WhyMafia.In post 181, Quick wrote:Naked vote, bud, you know that can't fly with me considering you have been wrong on me a lot.
I think you’re experienced enough to know that most players aren’t going to soft IC so blatantly like he did. I don’t think 144 is genuinely trying to figure out why he feels gambiting can help achieve town’s win-con or is pro-town. Reads more like an inquiry that has no correct answer or only designed to elicit a certain response. A trick question if you will.-
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I'd say reads based on expectation of a certain play are pretty weak as well. *shrug*In post 189, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:
Weak reasoning.In post 188, Quick wrote:
OK. What do you make of my TR on WM?In post 187, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:
Don’t like your interactions with WhyMafia.In post 181, Quick wrote:Naked vote, bud, you know that can't fly with me considering you have been wrong on me a lot.
I think you’re experienced enough to know that most players aren’t going to soft IC so blatantly like he did. I don’t think 144 is genuinely trying to figure out why he feels gambiting can help achieve town’s win-con or is pro-town. Reads more like an inquiry that has no correct answer or only designed to elicit a certain response. A trick question if you will.-
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How about you explain why you are voting me to begin with?In post 198, Espeonage wrote:Ok so my neighbor agrees that Quick is scum.
They want to keep their vote where it is.
So consider the wagon as having another person on it.-
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How am I Scummy?In post 200, Espeonage wrote:
Ok so this was slightly wrong.In post 198, Espeonage wrote:Ok so my neighbor agrees that Quick is scum.
They want to keep their vote where it is.
So consider the wagon as having another person on it.
But I'll try and get them to vote.
Pedit: You're scummy man.Go after someone for good reasons and properly and we can review.
If there were other things to go after, wouldn't you be looking at that stuff as well? I mean I can reread the thread for the third time, but there is not a whole lot to go after at this stage.-
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Why would you claim mason at this stage of the game?In post 48, Espeonage wrote:What if I claimed mason. Would you care then?-
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Why would that ping you? Why wouldn't it just be like "OK this person makes no sense, will have to tread lightly with this one"?In post 71, UnaBombaH wrote:
This post pinged me.In post 54, Espeonage wrote:I'm not a vanilla townie.
I have so far softclaimed three times and two alignments.
Why do you feel the need to make it so stupidly obvious that you have claimed?
You also followed up on your first softing with a "Discuss.", meaning that you want to see peoples reaction to it, but by begging for it (and by being so very noisy about it) you won't get many genuine reactions.
I'd say you are not an investigative role, but more along the lines of IC/mason or BP/commuter.
Comment?-
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Quick Jack of All Trades
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How much experience do you have playing Forum Mafia?In post 76, JaydragonKing wrote:Not even a general overview of the possible roles here?
How am I supposed to know how many motherfuckers we got to throw into our volcano before town wins then?
Not even like 2-2-9 or 2-2-1-8 or 3-10?
That sucks.-
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Why are you talking about a SK in the game so early?In post 84, JaydragonKing wrote:Is it bad to root for a Serial Killer appearing instead of a second mafia group? That seems more manageable to me. Plus, with the SK around, for balance purposes, the mafia have to be weaker by default.-
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Is it typical to have multiball games in ToS?In post 208, JaydragonKing wrote:
So I don't have to type it again. Here ya go QuickIn post 163, JaydragonKing wrote:Only played ToS (town of Salem) before this, so I'm used to the concept of Mafia, but only the quick 20 web browser version.
This is my second game on this site, the other being Newbie 1835, which is actually still going so I can't talk about it much with you, not even mentioning that Una is/was also in that game.
That sounds like an excuse for being impatient, but I have to adjust to this slower pace.
Ranked Games in ToS are required to have four Mafia and either a Werewolf, a Serial Killer, or an Arsonist.Last edited by Assemblerotws on Mon Dec 04, 2017 4:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.-
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What I don't get at all is why you would ever think the setup was 9-2-2.In post 213, JaydragonKing wrote:@Quick
A game of Town of Salem has 15 players. There's not really a day one, only about a 20 second pregame chat. we go into night one first, everyone does a night action because nearly everybody has one.
In ranked, it goes 9 town, 4 mafia with varying abilities, a Neutral Killing (Serial Killer, Werewolf, Arsonist), and a Neutral Evil (Jester, Witch, Executioner (Lyncher))
Town starts with a Jailor, two town investigatives, a Town killing (Vigilante and Veteran (shoots anybody who visits if he alerts. Roleblocker immune and has three alerts)), Town Protective (doc and bodyguard), Town support (medium who can chat with the dead at night, ret who can rezz one player a game, escort who roleblocker, Mayor who gets three votes, Transporter who moves players at night), and three random town that can be any of those.
It's VERY different.-
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VOTE: Espe
Uzi, Flavor, Chill, you know why.-
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Sorry, but for me, there is zero reason to kill you later rather than sooner. You have to die today.In post 262, Espeonage wrote:
Then kill me later. Let me have two day phases.In post 259, Flavor Leaf wrote:Yeaaah...
Something_Smart and I pulled off a Mafia victory earlier in the year with a page 1 Miller claim/fake cop claim gambit earlier in the year too, so like, I really don’t like this Miller claim.
I am off the table for day 1.
P-Edit: You don't say. Where have I heard this before?-
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Now that I have my vote settled for the day, here's my joke for the day:
The Boon Babes be like:
Been waiting to make this one.-
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Town.In post 376, Archwing wrote:OKAY. quick update all.
so, boon has townlean on me, although his back and forth with esp was ridiculous and I never want to read it again. although I will probably have to.
quick notes:
240 from Elsa was some blatant, explicit sheeping. much dislike, regardless if the vote is on me or anyone else. Form your own reads.
252 also from Elsa was terrible. Again, this has nothing to do with me being the target, and more about the logic behind it is atrocious.
204 from Smart kinda pinged me as odd, but I'll leave it for the time being.
so, theory question: I've never played with a miller.... and obviously, miller can never be confirmed town. So because of that, we must then kill the miller? I forget who said it, but someone referenced a thing where they said "Normals can have miller without cop" but then wtf is the point of a miller? makes no sense. Where I'm going with this, is: regardless of what esp has claimed/said.... what is the best course of action to handle a claimed miller?
What are the town miller advantages of claiming miller d1?
obviously some of you boon babes here have successfully gambitted a miller d1 claim as scum, but what about town..?
Need some responses to this before I say anything else.
Also, the spat between Flavor and Espe isn't necessarily NOT SvS. I know Espe likes to do this kind of shit as Scum and Flavor I can totes see doing it as well. Just read it as Null people.-
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Well, Espe is the "correct" wagon so I can't really fault him for it.In post 401, Dunkerdoodles wrote:
causeIn post 400, Tchill13 wrote:dunk how exactly would he vote someone else and it not seem that way?
1. esp already has some votes and is probably the "counterwagon" right now
2. he never mentioned him in his posts before the vote, just came with the vote for no reason. he said he was scumleaning elsa, if anything.-
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Flavor, I expect you to vote the miller claim within your next 20 posts, thanks.-
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Now that you've spoiled the surprise, go ahead and vote themIn post 409, Flavor Leaf wrote:
I want to come out of nowhere and hammer the miller if it gets to L-1.In post 408, Quick wrote:Flavor, I expect you to vote the miller claim within your next 20 posts, thanks.-
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I believe itIn post 417, Espeonage wrote:I will vote myself tomorrow.But you're dead today!!!-
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Chill might just be Town this game.In post 423, Tchill13 wrote:
saved for later use.In post 419, JaydragonKing wrote:I still think we should just hang Archie to get him out of the way now, honestly. If Espeonage is literally volunteering for death tommorow, I'm inclined to agree and say they have town's interest at heart. Noob or not, I'm following my gut.
Besides, he went out of his way to threaten my in-game life. I will not move my vote from him.
Sorry Tchill.-
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There will ALWAYS be WIFOM around the Espe slot. And not the good kind where it confuses Scum. It's the bad kind that confuses Town. There is no reason to let Espe live because they might be Town because they also might be Scum.In post 450, Something_Smart wrote:
Do you not agree though that at this point the negative utility for town is extremely slight? All it means is that a cop can't check him. But by lynching him we're not removing any negative utility, as a cop certainly can't check him if he's dead.In post 446, Tchill13 wrote:He's a claimed Miller. A NEGATIVE town utility. Do I think he's scum? He could be. I've explained the motivation if he was. Either way we're lynching a suspect in my book. I'd like for everyone to take a hard stance on this circumstance. I obviously have.
That is a self-defeating argument. If we have a choice between options X and Y, then it works equally in favor of doing X sooner rather than later as of doing Y sooner rather than later.In post 447, Tchill13 wrote:
If I have a "must kill before lylo" list then at some point I'll have to deal with it. Sooner is always better than later in mafia.In post 445, Something_Smart wrote:Why is town in a worse position to lynch scum while Espe is alive?-
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Chill has been a lot more assertive this game than last game I played with them. Willing to give him a TR at this point, especially if Espe flips red.-
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Actually, I know UCV is a young kid (no offense UCV) and I also know he's not an idiot (tho some might disagree). I feel this play from UCV comes from Town most likely because as a young kid who is not an idiot I think UCV would play quite a bit more cautiously as Scum.In post 464, Dunkerdoodles wrote:
bit of a stretch don't you think?In post 463, UC Voyager wrote:
I was just questioning you. I wasn't scum reading you or anything.In post 462, Archwing wrote:@ucv
-I find it funny cause last game I finished with you, as scum, I tried pushing that activity was AI. obviously failed, and with reason. Now you're questioning me on it, and I'm really wondering why. People in this thread have already stated they come on ~once a day at most.
@uzi
tbh I kinda gut scumread him at the start and he nothing he's done has gotten rid of it. I should honestly go re-read his stuff, but I probably won't until d2 so I can see a flip and see what connections I can make with that. there's no reality in which whymaf is getting d1 lynched anyways. I guess his stuff, to me, has had an edge that I don't particularly find super helpful to town, but then again, you guys have like 3098320 times the meta info on him that I don't. meh. like I said... i'll wait for d2.
Can other people input on esp? What do people think about Elsa? If both of those are not your lynch targets, who is?
why did you just get super defensive and hostile when i ask you one question?
TL;DR UCV is too Scummy to be Scum.-
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OMG, your tone in this game is completely different. I would work on that in your Scum game if I were you.In post 474, Tchill13 wrote:so far whymaf, jaydragon and something smart have clearly shown theyre against the miller lynch D1. Anyone else want to take a strong stance on it?
Oddly, they can't all be Scum (at least I don't think). 4/9 is pretty Scum sided.-
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We can lynch you D2, how does that sound?In post 478, JaydragonKing wrote:Last I checked from mafia theory, emotion is still an important factor. Logic is needed, but ignoring gut feeling is also a sure way to lose.
My heart, mind, AND gut say it's Archie. He's also deadset on it being me.
Lynch me or him today. Mafia (whichever one of us is mafia is your call) won't kill us. We're rowdy and we're distracting. We'll throw day 2 into unnecessary chaos when we should be looking at everyone equally. Lynching me or him will shut the other up and town can function much easier.-
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The same as everyone to the same degree? Hell no.In post 487, WhyMafia wrote:
Isn't this true with everyone though? Like the only difference between a miller and no miller is that the non-miller may get a credible invest result.In post 468, Quick wrote:
There will ALWAYS be WIFOM around the Espe slot. And not the good kind where it confuses Scum. It's the bad kind that confuses Town. There is no reason to let Espe live because they might be Town because they also might be Scum.In post 450, Something_Smart wrote:
Do you not agree though that at this point the negative utility for town is extremely slight? All it means is that a cop can't check him. But by lynching him we're not removing any negative utility, as a cop certainly can't check him if he's dead.In post 446, Tchill13 wrote:He's a claimed Miller. A NEGATIVE town utility. Do I think he's scum? He could be. I've explained the motivation if he was. Either way we're lynching a suspect in my book. I'd like for everyone to take a hard stance on this circumstance. I obviously have.
That is a self-defeating argument. If we have a choice between options X and Y, then it works equally in favor of doing X sooner rather than later as of doing Y sooner rather than later.In post 447, Tchill13 wrote:
If I have a "must kill before lylo" list then at some point I'll have to deal with it. Sooner is always better than later in mafia.In post 445, Something_Smart wrote:Why is town in a worse position to lynch scum while Espe is alive?-
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OK, that is kinda cool.In post 513, Something_Smart wrote:
Actually, it's a reference to that. Those titles change with post count, and with that post I reached the post count to get the title "Jack of All Trades".In post 511, JaydragonKing wrote:Though considering "Jack of all trades" is the tag under your name, either that is a huge coincidence, Assemble did it purposely, or your joking.
5000 posts is a lot, so I wanted to commemorate the occasion. It wasn't a real claim.
It seems to have gone over Tchill's head too.-
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Oh? What gave you the idea I thought you should be quick lynched?In post 519, Espeonage wrote:The Quick and Chill push for it to not just happen, but to happen quickly, has me worried.
Because it takes time away from town for what is known to be a misslynch. Which REALLY hurts town and makes day 2 effectively a day 1 with better odds.
Thanks for spewing Chill and I Town if you flip red tho-
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What makes you so confident it has to be multiball if Jay flips Scum? My dirty little secret is that I am reading both you and Jay as Scum. Take that fwiw.In post 520, Espeonage wrote:I kind of what to flip Jay.
If they flip scum, it's multiball. Which is good to know.
Bc relationally my scumreads don't make sense together and I have four of them. And it'd be nice to have a chance for them all to be scum at the same time.-
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Why is Jay Town?In post 573, Flavor Leaf wrote:
Arch and Jay both are seeming townie to me after analyzing.In post 563, Tchill13 wrote:Well una that kinda flies over my head but I'd rather not discuss it further.... I still don't want to move my vote. If I had to it'd be arch or Jay. Idk why you scum read quick.
Hmm. Scum is definitely within the players I know well this game. I’m struggling to really solidify my reads. This generally means that multiple players I know often are scum, and are able to play in a way where I won’t, or anyone else who is familiar with them, can pick anything up on them.
What tells you that Scum is in the players you know?-
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Quick Jack of All Trades
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Jay is easier to type for me.In post 578, JaydragonKing wrote:Half of you calling me Jay and the other half calling me Elsa. Fun times.-
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Gamblers Fallacy. Sorry, you're wrong.In post 597, UC Voyager wrote:Waiting to do what?
It is a great argument also. It is called fate. Like if assemble was a player and not a mod, either me or him would be scum-
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Ari looks like Scum. All I see is an agenda in his posts so far. He's not really sorting anyone just labeling people Scum/Town.-
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BOOOOOOOO!!!!!
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That doesn't make him Scum, unless you are talking slips in which case, I'm most probably not going to buy it. I generally have a policy against slips, I made a big mistake last game and I don't want to repeat the same mistake again.In post 615, Tchill13 wrote:UC stuck his foot in his mouth.-
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Because you only ask a question when someone accuses you of being Scum for starters.In post 611, Aristophanes wrote:
I'm working through things and giving the feelings I get from them. How is that scummy?In post 607, Quick wrote:Ari looks like Scum. All I see is an agenda in his posts so far. He's not really sorting anyone just labeling people Scum/Town.-
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Opposition to a wagon is more often than not an indication the slot is Scum.In post 631, Tchill13 wrote:jay and archie are getting thrown around a lot. The miller lynch was met with VERY much opposition. Ari's catch up is meh. Whymafia, Dunk and lil uzi leave much to be desired in effort. Apparently flavor doesn't game solve till day 3 (which seems like he's adjusting his town play to benefit his scum play if he's not gonna get involved early because ik how good a player he is.)... So yeah... Let's lynch someone.-
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In the context of what is going on in this game? Yeah, I would say so. Chill has points that still have yet to actually be refuted but instead people don't heed his wisdom because... why? I am not really sure. Someone explain it to me.In post 638, Something_Smart wrote:
LolIn post 636, Quick wrote:Opposition to a wagon is more often than not an indication the slot is Scum.-
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In post 268, Something_Smart wrote:
You feel tonally similar to that game.In post 259, Flavor Leaf wrote:Yeaaah...
Something_Smart and I pulled off a Mafia victory earlier in the year with a page 1 Miller claim/fake cop claim gambit earlier in the year too, so like, I really don’t like this Miller claim.
(Of course I'm taking that with a huge grain of salt as that's the only game I've played with you. But it still is a fact.)
And Espe, trust me, I'm aware of that but your claim would still be MORE trustworthy if there is a cop.In post 290, Something_Smart wrote:
Since it's now outright stated, yes, I fully believe you to be a town miller.In post 287, Espeonage wrote:- As in, do you still claim to know my alignment and role.In post 380, Something_Smart wrote:
Oh my god I'm getting so many flashbacks to the game where I claimed miller as scum LOL.WhyMafia wrote:Guys I played as miller fairly recently
Just treat the miller as you would with any other player. Judge them on their play. If they act scummy, we pressure them, if they don't, we let em live
Every time anyone said something like this, I cheered silentlyIn post 426, Something_Smart wrote:
you make it sound like he didn't expect people to want to policy him when he claimed miller.In post 425, Tchill13 wrote:From espeonage's pov anything that can keep him from getting lynched is what he's hoping for.
if we wanted to keep from getting lynched, he could have NOT CLAIMED MILLER.In post 429, Something_Smart wrote:Kind of a shot in the dark here but I feel like scum are a BIT more of a hindrance to town than a miller is.In post 433, Something_Smart wrote:And you know what, I can qualify that even more.
Scummy townies are hindrances to town too. So every lynch will remove a hindrance to town. With a miller, there are other things that can make his claim more or less likely, like the flipping of certain roles (And there are some roles that can still outright clear him, notably rolecop).
Miller is a very tiny hindrance to town once claimed. The only negative result is that if a cop happened to want to investigate him, they wouldn't be able to. That's very minor.
I agree with you that it is, in general, a bad idea to let miller claims live until LYLO. If he begins to show survivalistic tendencies in the next few days, then I may be willing to vote there.
But there's no reason it has to be today.In post 442, Something_Smart wrote:Coming from one person who's made endgame after fakeclaiming miller to another, I think it's well understood.
But your argument doesn't make sense. You're saying town should lynch him now because they might suddenly become dumb and decide not to lynch him later. If this were a town that would refuse to lynch the miller claim D2 or D3, could you really expect them to lynch it D1?
I don't know if I'm explaining this in the best way, but there's definitely some logical fallacy going on. If you could pick the lynch, you'd probably lynch Espe D2 or D3. But you're assuming that you won't be able to pick the lynch on those days because "anything can happen", so you believe that you can pick the lynch on D1.
Does that make sense?In post 450, Something_Smart wrote:
Do you not agree though that at this point the negative utility for town is extremely slight? All it means is that a cop can't check him. But by lynching him we're not removing any negative utility, as a cop certainly can't check him if he's dead.In post 446, Tchill13 wrote:He's a claimed Miller. A NEGATIVE town utility. Do I think he's scum? He could be. I've explained the motivation if he was. Either way we're lynching a suspect in my book. I'd like for everyone to take a hard stance on this circumstance. I obviously have.
That is a self-defeating argument. If we have a choice between options X and Y, then it works equally in favor of doing X sooner rather than later as of doing Y sooner rather than later.In post 447, Tchill13 wrote:
If I have a "must kill before lylo" list then at some point I'll have to deal with it. Sooner is always better than later in mafia.In post 445, Something_Smart wrote:Why is town in a worse position to lynch scum while Espe is alive?In post 529, Something_Smart wrote:
Actually, I disagree. I think that a better conclusion is that someone defending him is likely scum. I think scum would try to avoid being at the forefront of a miller push; they'd try to hide in the background and look like they were just following and it wasn't their fault.In post 518, UnaBombaH wrote:*If my read on town!Esp. is accurate, thenSomeone heavily advocating to lynch Esp. today is likely scum
Better idea:In post 520, Espeonage wrote:I kind of what to flip Jay.
If they flip scum, it's multiball. Which is good to know.
Bc relationally my scumreads don't make sense together and I have four of them. And it'd be nice to have a chance for them all to be scum at the same time.
If you think Jay scum implies multiball, then singleball would imply Jay town. So leave them alive for now and see if it's multiball first.
(And by the way, UCV, Paint Mafia Mania was an unusually terrible multiball game. Usually, they aren't quite so one-sided, and of course this is a normal so all of the complex mechanics there won't be present here.)In post 542, Something_Smart wrote:Key word "threat".
What exactly does the existence of a miller claim threaten?In post 559, Something_Smart wrote:And the existence of a cop would give a lot of credence to the miller claim.
This is every time you talk about miller by doing a mill search in your ISO.In post 585, Something_Smart wrote:
I don't have any other scumreads.In post 582, Tchill13 wrote:Smart who's a scum read besides a low poster you'd rather Lynch Over the Miller?
Now I really don't want to have to do this because I have better shit to do with my time. But I can poke holes in ALL of these arguments and they still don't address the +EV of lynching a miller claim D1. Lynching miller D1 is the STANDARD way you SHOULD deal with that claim UNLESS there is something beyond magical that happens during the day that would override a miller death D1.
Your play surrounding the miller claim is exceptionally weak and I am vote parking on miller until miller claim is dead.-
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And lets get this strait, you don't NOT lynch a miller claim "because I believe the claim" you don't lynch a miller claim because "there is no doubt in my mind that the miller slot is Town" and if you have that kind of read on Espe at this point you should just quit Mafia right now.
And if you keep attacking the intelligence of your fellow players, you should just replace out before I do it for you. This is your only warning.Last edited by Assemblerotws on Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.-
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I hold my reasoning ability above the norm, I guess. If you're looking for evidence why I should put such confidence in myself I would tell you I scored better than 93% of people in the Science portion of the ACT which involves interpretation, analysis, evaluation, reasoning, and problem solving. Just so it doesn't look like I am bragging tho, I scored better than only 45% of people in either Reading or English, I can't remember which.In post 646, Something_Smart wrote:
Evidence?In post 644, Quick wrote:Lynching miller D1 is the STANDARD way you SHOULD deal with that claim UNLESS there is something beyond magical that happens during the day that would override a miller death D1.
I've seen at least 4 games with miller claims and this view was never held by more than a few players, if it was even brought up at all. Even here it's a minority view.
Because the most reasonable play to make if you are not positive of Espe's alignment as Town is to lynch the miller claim for reasons stated by Chill which you haven't actually refuted, but just moved the goal posts. If you want to argue that not lynching Espe is a more correct process, you are going to have to argue why keeping Espe alive for a later time in the game is beneficial to Town given you can't be sure of Espe's alignment. I believe the only possible reasons you can say that Espe shouldn't be lynched at this point is because either there is a legit Scum slip (which you will be hard pressed to convince me of because as I said earlier, I don't believe in slips unless it is blatantly obvious to everyone in the game) or you think you are better at making associations through Espe's play with other players to the degree that you know for certain that the next lynch will not be on Town. That would also require you to lynch Scum D1 as well. Good luck arguing that one.In post 647, Something_Smart wrote:
Once again, you can't make claims like this with no evidence.In post 645, Quick wrote:And lets get this strait, you don't NOT lynch a miller claim "because I believe the claim" you don't lynch a miller claim because "there is no doubt in my mind that the miller slot is Town" and if you have that kind of read on Espe at this point you should just quit Mafia right now.
There are 11 people that I will not end up lynching today. Clearly I can't be positive that they're ALL town. So why should I have to positive that ESPE is town in order to not lynch him?-
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Why are you even arguing that we should keep Espe around because it only makes it a little harder to solve the game? Why take a harder option at all? Again, you have to be certain that Espe is Town for even your own arguments to even have a barring on whether we keep Espe alive or not.In post 655, Something_Smart wrote:I don't believe that he makes the game mechanically hard to win. Slightly harder, yes, but the only drawback is that a cop has one person who they definitely can't investigate. There is usually more than one good cop target in any given night so that is a very small loss in my opinion. Do you disagree?
The part about not risking another claim day 1 is also valid, though in general that risk is always present. I also see the merit in the argument that he will not be killed by scum, though I think that anyone else who we MIGHT mislynch today is probably not gonna be killed either. Furthermore, lynching a scummy VT is not worse than lynching a towny miller, since the miller if town will continue to contribute to lynching scum and he seems to be a pretty strong player.
Finally, at the very least I think the opportunity cost of leaving him until tomorrow is worth it, since he's a perfect target for a rolecop (and also probably vanilla cop), gunsmith, vig, or any loyal investigative.
I'm starting to see where you're coming from, finally. Do you see where I'm coming from?-
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Oh, this HAS to be based on gut because I know you can't make this case.In post 662, WhyMafia wrote:
I don't think this is lynch bait. I have more the feeling that scum are bussing Quick rn because while there's been substantial pressure on the other names, there's been little to nothing on QuickIn post 564, Something_Smart wrote:Quick lynch