Mini Normal 1988 (Endgame)

[Sephiroth]

New game new me. Who wants my RVS vote?

[Sephiroth]

vote: TIAM

This is not a random vote.

[Sephiroth]

<3

[Sephiroth]

Okay, tbh I'm not sure of my stance on lurker lynches. They're not giving you info but the question is whether this is more harmful on D1 or at a later time if you see what I'm saying

The problem with lynch all lurkers is that you just don't know the role, and you don't know whether you wouldve gotten a good replacement. Lynching a VT because theyre inactive is a +, but lynching a pr because they're inactive is a -. You can also argue that there should just be stronger anti-lurking policies and quicker replacements but the reality is you don't know if the replacement will be any more active, and they're fairly hard to find on a consistent basis. So lynching an inactive is a lot better to keep the game moving at a brisk pace.

I will definitely wagon all lurkers, especially in a game with quick deadlines.

[Sephiroth]

Foiled again!
VOTE: bujaber
Serious vote. Sheep me on this.

I'm intrigued buy skeptical.

[Sephiroth]

ebwop: 'but* skeptical'

[Sephiroth]

no no. thats not how sheeping works

I guess I'm just not that into your vote. We can still be friends though.

[Sephiroth]

unvote, vote: leeoon

[Sephiroth]

I'm happy to sheep Nero for the timebeing. I also don't really like the 'i have a plan, but I can't tell you yet' shenanigans from roy. I usually find this type of behavior to be an attempt at virtue signaling (yes I just appropriated that term for mafia use, come at me). Like if he actually wanted genuine reactions or actually had something that needed to be kept in the dark to be effective, he would't be like "HEY GUYS I HAVE A SECRET THING BUT WE NEED TO WAIT".

So those are my top SRs at the moment.

I have a good idea of TIAMs meta and Lalendras meta so I think my read on them will become clear before end of day.

Nero, what do you think of me sheeping you since you think sheeping is dumb?

[Sephiroth]

pressure lurker vote
VOTE: thegoldenparadox

unvote, vote: thegoldenparadox

[Sephiroth]

Impressions so far:

-I think Archwing's eagerness/reactivity to RVS was weird. The jokes/lack of serious votes kept flowing with the intent to keep the good times rolling rather than progress the game.
-Don't like Sephiroth's #32. It reads as establishing credibility via discussion of mechanics. Arguably that's game-progressing and just an attempt to get his opinion out there, and this is more of a tone issue. I'm inclined to think it's scummy because I get the same vibe but worse in the following post:

I also don't really like the 'i have a plan, but I can't tell you yet' shenanigans from roy. I usually find this type of behavior to be an attempt at virtue signaling (yes I just appropriated that term for mafia use, come at me). Like if he actually wanted genuine reactions or actually had something that needed to be kept in the dark to be effective, he would't be like "HEY GUYS I HAVE A SECRET THING BUT WE NEED TO WAIT".

I'm hardcalling bullshit here. Nearly every time I have seen this, it's been town. There are more experienced players who do stuff like this as scum. Coming from a newer player it is virtually always town. Newer scum are focused on seeming like they don't have anything to hide, newer town don't yet see the value of having everything out in the open (or at least, not tipping the scum off they have something until they do).

Nero, what do you think of me sheeping you since you think sheeping is dumb?

I don't like this. You explicitly highlight what it is that Nero should be taking an issue with your play and asks what he thinks of it. At a minimum, the correct play seems to be to wait and see what he said first, then highlight it and ask why it didn't faze him if it didn't. This is a straightforward question to answer and seems to be more worried about Nero's read on you rather than what Nero's thinking in general.

While I think the process described above is troubling, it's a common mistake as town too: What I think is wrong with it is the general preemptive attention to your own appearance it represents.

VOTE: Sephiroth

Well, agree to disagree I guess.

[Sephiroth]

With what I have, I would bet on Sephiroth. I don't like his tone or the interaction with Roy, but more importantly, I hate that question to Nero.

You're barking up the wrong tree. Probing peoples stated views is something I do pretty frequently. Asking someone to resolve a discrepancy and a stated view is generally a pretty good way to get a sense of how genuine their beliefs are. He was townreading and I was sheeping him, which he said was dumb. I guess I just disagree the question was focused on me. Maybe from your perspective. From mine it was focused on a perceived discrepancy with what he was saying and what he was doing (which i thought he resolved well enough, in case you were wondering).

[Sephiroth]

discrepancy between a stated view and an action or read*

[Sephiroth]

I mean, she has a good reason to say that, to be fair. Every game I've been in with Lalendra she's been mislynched D1 or D2.

[Sephiroth]

Seph had town vibes. After re-reading iso though, I put seph to null. no more town.

What changed?

[Sephiroth]

Even town says stupid crap sometimes.

even though this is a pretty reasonable thing to say the context gives me weird vibes. Like kind of an underlying sense of confbias even though its not explicit.

[Sephiroth]

Wasn't trying to sweep it under the rug as much, but sliphunting is crappy. I don't feel it is a valid argument for a lynch alone. What separates a scumslip from a townie failing to grasp the right words to say something?

Do you think the fact that it doesn't warrant a lynch on its own means its worth skipping past? Like I get what you're saying but I also don't understand why, given that stance, you would actively attempt to suppress/move away from that line of argument. it seems like it would be something you would monitor and see if it develops, rather than confidently dismissing its relevance to the current discussion.

[Sephiroth]

unvote

[Sephiroth]

I guess I still don't understand why you would make the effort to note and dismiss it when it probably would've faded relatively quickly if left to its own devices. If there is more important stuff to do, what is it?

Don't worry, I expose my alts all the time too

[Sephiroth]

OMGUS Come on Moz I want to see real nonjokey content from you.

Can you tell me what you consider to be real content? Was 134 from you real content? It seems to be mostly fluff plus complaining about other people not having real content, which is why I think its relevant for you to explain to me what 'real content' is and how you determine an acceptable amount of it at this point in the game.

[Sephiroth]

I think your names are random personally since half of the people you call town haven’t really done anything imo to warrant a town read. But it’s day 1 so whatever

I get where you're coming from but it seems like you don't have any strong reason to scumread the slots you scumread. So it seems a little hypocritical to criticize someone else's tentative town list on the basis of it conflicting with your scum list, as your scum list is, by your own admission, not something you feel strongly about.

[Sephiroth]

I don't think you can criticize someones tentative list based on your own reads while simultaneously saying your own reads are not strong. Like if you think hes wrong for town reading those people you must have a reason for scum reading them, yet you just say you suspect them and dont have strong reads. Saying 'those are bad because theyre the opposite of mine' when your reads are weak and you haven't backed them up with anything is just speaking for the sake of speaking and disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing.

[Sephiroth]

Thanks for scumclaiming.
VOTE: BuJaber[/b]

Lazy. Try harder next time.

[Sephiroth]

Can we get a vote count? I feel like voting TIAM but at the moment I don't want to detract from this Buj wagon. Interested to see where that one is going.

[Sephiroth]

It is partly him saying "I'VE GOT A SECRET PLAN HEY PUT THE SPOTLIGHT ON ME!" I know people disagree but I took that as town.
Plus he doesn't seem reticent in anyway, he's been happy to argue the toss with everyone.

Just out of curiosity do you think that 'putting the spot light on him' would put him in any sort of real danger as scum? It just seems that reading between the lines you're saying this isn't scummy because it draws attention to him, but I really don't think its the kind of attention that most scum would worry about.

[Sephiroth]

@Luca Blight

: Request denied.

This may be unpopular with some people but honestly this type of deadline policy could really help the meta on site quite a bit.

I'll have a catch up later today and post what reads I have. Busy at work but I should find some time in a few hours.

[Sephiroth]

I haven't been that active when there is not that much to talk about

I really don't see any reasonable explanation for saying this other than just not reading the thread at all. I get it if you're busy, but there is no way you can't find a single thing to comment on...

This doesn't feel to me like your scum game but you've played enough to know theres plenty to talk about and that its scummy to make this excuse. So, what's up dude?

[Sephiroth]

To be fair complaining about your read Buj, your explanation is pretty lacking. She already explained the comment she made, and the explanation seemed reasonable. Are you still hanging on to her general suspicion of early scum leans as the primary reason to suspect her or did I miss something.

[Sephiroth]

EBWOP: To be fair to people complaining about* your read

[Sephiroth]

unvote, vote: TIAM

Its absolutely absurd to claim that nothing interesting or worth commenting on has happened...

thats -3 I think, in case anyone was wondering.

[Sephiroth]

I dunno. I have a gut feeling hes scum this game.

[Sephiroth]

I think the following are town: Archwing, Luca, Nero Cain, Chumba, Buj (tentative), lalendra (tentative)

I think the scum will be found in: TIAM, Prism, Roy, paradox, moz, leeon

So I'm happy with my TIAM vote. Especially since TIAM shows no interest in engaging with the game and preclaimed VT.

[Sephiroth]

Deadline is looming. Please do it ASAP

[Sephiroth]

Everyone should read Arch's case on Seph, p461. Entirely agree. Seph is very likely scum.

This pings me in all sorts of ways. Also I'm not scum and I'm pretty sure you should be tr-ing me here based on reading my behavior in my last game. I'm not sure how scum reading me here makes sense given what you know about my meta. Maybe it would be easier to discuss if you elaborated on what you agree with rather than naked sheeping someone else's case.

[Sephiroth]

Chumba: I stated pretty clearly that I was scumreading TIAM on gut even though his play didn't seem to line up with what I expect from his meta.

[Sephiroth]

I still find it really funny that you scum read me here.

[Sephiroth]

I also feel like you've been generally misinterpreting/misrepping my position on TIAM. What i said and stood by was that his game didnt seem like the scum game I'd played with him but I was scum reading him on gut. I was never saying that I was scumreading him because he was being absurd, thats like literally his MO.

[Sephiroth]

I think the following are town: Archwing, Luca, Nero Cain, Chumba, Buj (tentative), lalendra (tentative)

I think the scum will be found in: TIAM, Prism, Roy, paradox, moz, leeon

So I'm happy with my TIAM vote. Especially since TIAM shows no interest in engaging with the game and preclaimed VT.

I haven't reread yet so for the most part the above is still accurate.

[Sephiroth]

I also feel like moz's scumhunting this game feels a little forced.

[Sephiroth]

Anyway, before Nero derails the thread with his hissy fit, we nee dot focus on those who mught be scum.
Leon, Lal, Hewho, maybe Seph etc, golden.
KEEP FOCUS PEOPLE.

Hmm.

unvote, vote: mozamis

[Sephiroth]

He keeps posting nothing but disguises it as actual content.

I don't think this is backed up by reality. I just did a quick ISO and there seems to be plenty of legitimate content. Why are you throwing mud at archwing rn?

[Sephiroth]

Ugh I really need to reread =/ I'll try again this afternoon.

[Sephiroth]

hmm im probably not scum

[Sephiroth]

mulch, do you really think im scum here?

[Sephiroth]

Can we wagon moz plz

[Sephiroth]

I never trust mulch claims on principle at this point.

[Sephiroth]

Honestly I don't think Roy has played poorly at all...you're supposed to keep some shade as a PR to avoid the NK, as he mentioned.

Intent to lynch the scum unless there are any objections.

[Sephiroth]

As town I always have trouble reading multi-player slots and I end up mainly going with gut.

I'm with you on this, but unfortunately its the nature of forum mafia.

[Sephiroth]

Yeah, I'm conftown. Protip, I'm pretty hard to read a lot of the time.

[Sephiroth]

So we have two scum left, in a pool of 5 based on #1108.

Stefan, Christopher, Fitz, Nero and Lalendra.

Hmm. Rereading those 5 tonight.

[Sephiroth]

Is Mulch actual confirmed or is that just the claim?

[Sephiroth]

I don't want to flake but I'm also doubting I'll be able to give this game the attention it deserves =/

[Sephiroth]

I'm sorry I flaked. My life got a bit crazy. Good job to all town except for me.