Mini 2020: Destiny III: Cosmic Mafia [終わり]

[AnonymousGhost]

Why would you trust me?!

[AnonymousGhost]

That's fine. Thanks for being honest with me, Kuribo.

[AnonymousGhost]

Actually combining that with the fact that you admitted that you can control votes makes me doubt my town read on you. Kuribo's my strongest TR and if he can exert that much control over the lynch as he claims he could do, why would the town need someone who can control someone else's vote if Kuribo's role exists? Feels redundant.

This was directed at Pixie.

@Feysal - Were you informed that Pixie moved your vote?

[AnonymousGhost]

I hate the fact that they can do basically do this in secret.

[AnonymousGhost]

Apples to orange Nacho. Comparing your scum meta to their scum meta is irrelevant.

[AnonymousGhost]

I see it, but it still doesn't make me hate their ability any less, considering we

get no fucking warning

when they do it.

[AnonymousGhost]

one of {muffin, cupcake, nosferatu}

Can to explain why you think these people should be targeted with the Day Vig?

[AnonymousGhost]

mollie claiming her ability if scum doesn't make sense

And me claiming that you and Staeg are fake claiming - and thereby wanting to lynch either of you yesterday - Masons makes no sense from a scum standpoint, but people still think I'm scum. So, what's your point?

The standard scum tells and scum behavior are just that. Standards. Outliers exist for a reason.

[AnonymousGhost]

Nacho

I see your point, but I ultimately disagree.

The counterpoint is basically acting as an example of how standard scum behavior/tells shouldn't be wholly applied to every person. There's a reason why arguments like "too scummy to be scum" exist. Like I told Feysal, experienced scum know these tells; they can, and possibly will fly in the face of them in order to avoid looking like scum, thus rendering these standard scum tells/behavior models useless.

[AnonymousGhost]

I'm saying the first point, not the second.

Join dates are a bad way to determine how experienced someone is.

[AnonymousGhost]

Feysal - Can you explain why Camntsuki, Muffin, DGB, Nos, and LLD aren't in your town pile from 1990?

[AnonymousGhost]

But he's posted in those 24 hours and his only "redemption" was "Hay Guys I'm gonna die but I'm okay with that and also I'm a reverse miller"

I know you've seen townies crumple like a shitty card table before. My only point is that it'd be really super wonderful if we could give him more than one chance to redeem himself, especially since the horrible awful thing he did yesterday was not post a lot after taking a super long break from mafia.

So who are you proposing gets day vigged instead, Nacho?

one of {muffin, cupcake, nosferatu}

Pretty sure you'll explain this later, but I want details as to why Muffin's on the list, especially since Muffin basically had the same reaction I did towards your Mason claims.

[AnonymousGhost]

?

[AnonymousGhost]

Yoiure going to have to explain further than that cause I'm biased since we pushed for the same thing.

[AnonymousGhost]

Okay. That's all I can ask for.

[AnonymousGhost]

You should target me AG and you keep a secret until day 3

:thinks:

Did I get the secret you promised me, Dunn? I targeted you N1.

[AnonymousGhost]

I can't tell if that flavor is hinting at multiball or if feysal was messing with us

The better question would: do we believe Feysal's claim about multiball now that he flipped scum? Muffin and Kuribo pushed the fact that there's no town motive for holding onto that like he did, and there wasn't - since he was scum.

Thoughts?

He could've just sent that information to throw us into a wild goose chase/sow - pun intended! - chaos.

Pedit:

Oh yeah. You exist in this game Nos. I tracked you last night. No result.

AND BEFORE ANYONE OUTS THEMSELF AS A PR!!! I became an Empowered Tracker as of D2 start after receiving my track result PM from Fate.

SO KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT IF YOU TARGTED ME LAST NIGHT AND ARE A TOWN PR.

[AnonymousGhost]

Yeah. Something did. Mentioned it last page.

[AnonymousGhost]

VOTE: Staeg

Mermaid Warrior Vite: Kuribo

[AnonymousGhost]

My impression is that rainbow votes = mermaid votes.

i feel like lynching a ""mason""

but do the mermaid queen votes first

T

U

R

N

I

N

T

O

A

B

E

A

U

T

I

F

U

L

M

E

R

M

A

I

D

:

K

U

R

I

B

O

nothing is impossible with the power of imagination

[AnonymousGhost]

Spoiler: Ghost does math

Countdown to LyLo with Multiball (7v2v1):

D3 Lynch = 9 P
N3 = 7 P
D4 = 4v2v1 (LyLo)

Countdown to LyLo in Singleball (8v2) [assumes scum team started with a 3 man team]

D3 Lynch = 9 P
N3 = 8 P
D4 = 7 P
N4 = 6 P
D5 = 5 P [3 v 2] (LyLo)

[AnonymousGhost]

@Mod - When is D3's deadline?

[AnonymousGhost]

actually talking about lynching =/= actually lynching

[AnonymousGhost]

what's the supposed takeaway from two worst-case countdowns? what use is this to anyone? is this just posturing? might be, might be
the deadlines are consistent in their duration - if you cared to know the answer instead of wanting to signal usefulness, this takes about 1 minute to check

The deadline and the worst case scenario are for my personal use because I'm shit at math and I need to visually work it out.

[AnonymousGhost]

do you feel like there's some world where one of us is town and the other is scum, or is this a "well staeg surely has a nifty power role if nacho had to claim along with him~~~~~" case?

You haven't been paying attention have you?

I think your Mason claims are BS scum trying to buy time and haven't backed down from that otherwise.

If you're thinking, "oh why didn't you push yesterday?", let me remind you that yesterday's VC went towards electing the Leo King. I sure as fuck wasn't going to give that to either of you.

[AnonymousGhost]

You exist in this game Nos. I tracked you last night.

No result

.

@Kuribo - The bolded part is what my result PM had in it.

[AnonymousGhost]

You exist in this game Nos. I tracked you last night.

No result

.

@Kuribo - The bolded part is what my result PM had in it.

OH FUCK!!!!! I JUST REALIZED SOMETHING!!!

[AnonymousGhost]

MY DUNN N1 RESULT IS DIFFERENT THAN MY N2 RESULT

[AnonymousGhost]

My Dunn result explicitly says that he did not action N1.
My Nos result says no result.

[AnonymousGhost]

According to the mafiascum wiki, "If a Tracker is somehow blocked from their action (by Roleblocker, Jailkeeper, Rolestopper, Ascetic, or Commuter), they should receive a "No Result" pm, rather than a "did not see anything" pm."

[AnonymousGhost]

VOTE: Nosferatu

[AnonymousGhost]

Theory talk: remember how I'm a Weak Tracker, in that I Follow people who target me instead of tracking my original target?

Say I'm targeted by some kind of role/ability that can prevent a role from working and now consider the NAR. Since role blocking/stopping occurs before investigations, it's probably safe to assume that I

was

targeted with a role stopping ability last night. However, instead of something like "You were Protected last night," - this is the first time I've received a follow result - my result is literally "no result" because I was stopped somehow.

Pedit:

NVM.

My N2 result is due to Mod Error, not game mechanics.

[AnonymousGhost]

UNVOTE: Nosferatu

VOTE: Staeg

[AnonymousGhost]

My N2 result is due to Mod Error, not game mechanics.

For emphasis.

[AnonymousGhost]

My Dunn result explicitly says that he did not action N1.
My Nos result says

no result

.

My Nos result now - correctly & paraphrasedly - says, "Nos did not take action N2".

[AnonymousGhost]

If that did happen, he'd be basically confirming himself as scum by laying down a hammer without waiting for a claim in a role madness game.

[AnonymousGhost]

watch as nacho comes in and hammers and laughs in everyone's face at how he can get away with it

wait for it...

I feel personally attacked

I like how you've basically joined this wagon to save your own skin with no mention of that slot before this point - not even if you think it's town or scum.

[AnonymousGhost]

@Pixie - Gimme the reasons for scum!Camn plz. Thx~

Why not vote for Mermaid Kuribo? He's claimed intent to shoot LLD if he gets to be a Mermaid.

@Dunn - Has your case from D1 scum case changed since then?

[AnonymousGhost]

?

[AnonymousGhost]

Maria expressed a not-town read on LLD, and DGB made me promise LLD's blood

Today isn't gonna be pretty, and

if I become a mermaid I'm shooting LLD

.

[AnonymousGhost]

What lines? It's literally an "if this, then that" statement.

[AnonymousGhost]

Can you not understand why I don't want scum to know where my barrel would be pointed

Sort of.

Can you also not understand that if I'm shooting LLD then there's literally nothing good that could come about me and her arguing over that for the rest of this day?

No.

[AnonymousGhost]

LLD vs Kuribo = Boom Boom

That's pretty much all I got.

[AnonymousGhost]

Pretty sure you'll explain this later, but I want details as to why Muffin's on the list, especially since Muffin basically had the same reaction I did towards your Mason claims.

your pushes were very different.

Talk to me about this thing.

^ @Nacho - Plz.

#Fate

[AnonymousGhost]

I LOVE GIVING FATE HIS PAGE TOPS

:DDDD

[AnonymousGhost]

:p

[AnonymousGhost]

i hate page tops

[AnonymousGhost]

muffin mason push + ghost mason push = pocket ghost?

I've been turning a blind eye to muffin cause i was more relieved that he believed me/saw the same thing i did. like ive never even considered tracking muffin before this. looking at what you brought up does frame his push as lynch chaining.

as a rule, i don't put faith into claims of self-meta cuz its easily manipulative, but pointing out the chain lynch effect and the differences between our pushes is enough for me to revaluate my town lean on him - especially cuz half of it was subliminal AtE and the other half was based on this:

my role has nothing to do with greek gods but it's either their fake-claim or they're town, so i don't think it matters

in hindsight, this is less conf!town than I believed at the time and it clearly fed into my bias of Not Western Astrology flavor = fake claiming.

reflecting back on my interactions with Staeg, my bad impression of his play created the reinforcement of the thought 'this

can't

be town posting, ergo must be scum posting'. but... i believe that I've been wrongly scum reading play style. not town posting =/= scum if it was always not town posting = scum then this game would be so much simpler. :p

in short, the fake claim theory is the main reason that I've been scum reading either of you. Staeg had the misfortunate of me falling into my scum reading play style bad habit, BUT if i ignore your claims, then i can't think of a reason why you two would be scumz. in Staeg's case bad posting =/= scum or not town and in your case, your muffin's push points out something important and ive never found your posts to have scum motive

UNVOTE: Steag

[AnonymousGhost]

VOTE: thepixiecollective

you two were so adamant the last two days about the masons being legit and harping on the fact that they were "self-resolving".

the masons are a self resolving issue and it shld be treated as town until proven otherwise.

they are self resolving. you freaking know this.

mason claims are self resolving. end of story

come today, you've changed your tune from 'nacho's not posting like town, but he's a mason' to 'nacho's not posting like town, therefore scum', echoing Muffin's "no town posting Staeg/Nacho" sentiment towards the masons.

what gives?

[AnonymousGhost]

ive also come to conclusion that i shouldn't assume this is multi-ball until proven otherwise. i actually think Feysal was an SK - which are normally color coded in purple - than part of a two man scum team.

Pedit: That's the point Kuribo.

[AnonymousGhost]

The only evidence we have for multiball is threefold--- Fey's word, and his purple flip rather than red, as well as Maria saying she was shot twice. We have one kill each night, (two shots on Maria possibly N1, missing shot N2 if multiball) and so the evidence for multiball is
circumstantial, but can't be ignored.

Deconstructing this:

- Fey's word.

Uh..

why are we trusting someone who flipped something

other than town

???? his intention - especially post flip - was to deceive the town. if that message came from a confirmed townie, then i'd say that the multi-ball claim would have more weight.

- Purple versus red.

SK's are normally color coded as purple when the flip. We shouldn't automatically assume that purple = a second scum team.

- Maria's flip.

Debatable and circumstantial like you said with the missing N2 NK if it is multi-ball. What's the point of a scum team holstering their shot though? it just prolongs the game and leaves people alive to reevaluate their reads, giving them a chance to lynch scum.

[AnonymousGhost]

masons are self resolving--- in a way that's more obvious on day 3 than on day 1.

@Nacho - You're good at explaining stuff. Please explain this statement to my brain.

[AnonymousGhost]

That is one less lynch for scum.. and one or two more nightkills a non-mason.

I think I get it.

depending on the majority's opinion the mason claim, scum will act accordingly in order to promote their win con by allowing town paranoia to go on.

[AnonymousGhost]

Spoiler: Ghost does math

Countdown to LyLo with Multiball (7v2v1):

D3 Lynch = 9 P
N3 = 7 P
D4 = 4v2v1 (LyLo)

Countdown to LyLo in Singleball (8v2) [assumes scum team started with a 3 man team]

D3 Lynch = 9 P
N3 = 8 P
D4 = 7 P
N4 = 6 P
D5 = 5 P [3 v 2] (LyLo)

Ghost does more math

Singleball + SK Theory + Mermaid Vig Shot Theory

D3 Start = 10 P
D3 End = 9 P (assumes someone is lynched)
N3 = -2 P (assumes Mermaid Kuribo is a Vig shot + mafi's NK + both shots are successful)
D4 Start = 7 P = LYLO (4 town v 3 mafi)

Singleball + SK Theory

D3 Start = 10 P
D3 End = 9 P (assumes someone is lynched)
N3 = -1 P (Mermaid is not vig shot like we assume, but mafi's NK is successful)
D4 Start = 8 P (5 town v 3 mafi) (MyLo)

[AnonymousGhost]

How confident is everyone about the Mermaid Warrior = Vig?

Here's the flavor for the Leo King:

Whomever is elected will have the power to eliminate a single player.

Pretty clear what it does, right?

Now take a look at the flavor for Mermaid Warrior:

nominate a player to be a nighttime warrior for Harmony. They will recieve a bonus ability to use tonight.

I no longer think Mermaid = Vig.

[AnonymousGhost]

SK seems OP in a mini

I've seen it before but it's a pain in the ass

And multiball in a mini - this technically

isn't even a mini

w/ 14 players - isn't OP?

[AnonymousGhost]

ou can see the progression of my reads if you cld be bothered to read my posts you wld see it.

What progression? You've repeatedly said Nacho isn't town posting, "isn't reaching out", and then complained about it.

[AnonymousGhost]

Spoiler: troll post

Dear,

freaking awful ghost "case" I would like to introduce you to your friend, the kettle.

casper - despite them saying that they are new they don't strike me as new. gut feel is that they are scum and their actions and line of questioning kinda points to it. plus they are way too chipper.

Sincerely,

Ghost

[AnonymousGhost]

I prefer to lynch Camntsuki

Who else is in your lynch pool Dunn?

[AnonymousGhost]

@Muffin - You were one of the people who caught onto Feysal's lack of town motive for not revealing possible information to the set up (multiball). We have his flip, it wasn't town, and we can confirm that that information wasn't spread with pro-town intentions in mind.

Why can't Feysal be a flipped SK? This would offer an explanation as to why there we two kills in N1, but come N2 there's only one.

[AnonymousGhost]

Mermaid Warrior Vote: Thepixiecollective

@Mod - You missed this Warrior Vote by Dunn.

[AnonymousGhost]

I still think the answer is simpler, like kills being based on the phase of the Star signs or alternating nights

And like that you've lost me.

[AnonymousGhost]

Kuribo - plz explain multiball scum motive for BASICALLY CONFIRMING ITS MULTIBALL with a cheeky message to someone who's probably town. Like the whole advantage of unannounced multiball is tgat it's MOT ANNOUNCED.

[AnonymousGhost]

You've already got my point by acknowledging that it is an option.

[AnonymousGhost]

You have a point about the redirect, but here's a counterpoint:

What if it DID work? What if DGB's redirect affected both of his abilities, but they didn't direct to the same person?

[AnonymousGhost]

Why would he lie about his target? His main intention was to sow paranoia and possible misinformation into the town. How much would it matter as to who it was sent to, as long as it was sent and then shared?

Pedit: On the one hand, I'd say that's a fair assumption, but DGB wasn't as in control of her ability as she probably would've liked. If she couldn't control whether it blocks or redirects, why would she be able to control the redirected player's possible target?

[AnonymousGhost]

WHY ARE YOU TEXTING AND DRIVING?!? PLZ MAKE IT TO TOUR DESTINATIONSAFELY!!!!

[AnonymousGhost]

Nos - my point exactly. Even he was part of a scum team in MB where's scum motive for revealing unknown MB scum's greatest weapon?

[AnonymousGhost]

Plz explain how his fake claim fits into all of this. Thank you.

[AnonymousGhost]

FEYSAL'S? DIDNT HE CLAIM THE REASON HE SENT THE MESSAGE BECAUSE HIS ROLE SAID IT WAS MULTIBALL OR SOMETHING?

Why are we believing anything Feysal has said again? He didn't flip town.

[AnonymousGhost]

Feysal isn't an sk because part of his role was that his role didn't flip

That's a group scum ability, it has no purpose on an sk

I've never heard of an ability like that, even from my offsite experience.

Wait. Did he actually claim that he wouldn't flip as whatever his alignment was? I thought his claim was that his so-called ability made him look like whomever targeted him.

Yeah. Going into his ISO this is what he said:

I also have a passive ability. I know this claim will probably seal my fate, but what the hell.

Cops

see me as their own alignment. Town cop sees me as town. Scum cop sees me as scum.

I still think it's BS though.

AFAIK no other investigative role but myself has claimed, either with guiltless or innocents. Let's say that there are no other investigative abilities in this game, what's the point of this so-called passive ability for a Tracker? It's already proven that passive abilities have no affect on my role - complusive self watcher if targeted - so, my theoretical Track on him would be accurate/not deceived by this so-called ability he had.

In a nutshell, I don't believe anything about Feysal's claim regarding the cheeky multi ball message or his passive ability claim. He didn't flip town, so why are we taking what he said with some merit of truth?

[AnonymousGhost]

Hey Casper have you added 2+2=4 yet?

I think you are town and it wld be cool too work with you

No, not until now. What would you like to talk about?

[AnonymousGhost]

why?

You're at

L-1

Nos.

Retrograde is God's way of telling everyone to slow the fuck down.

Vote Count:

camntsuki-Sagitarrius: To Unify (2): Dunnstral, thepixiecollective
zMuffinMan- Virgo: To Serve (1): Nachomamma8
AnonymousGhost- Scorpio: To Transform (0):
thepixiecollective- Cancer: To Nourish (1): AnonymousGhost

Nosferatu-Gemini: To Listen (5) Kuribo, camntsuki, Staeg, LadyLambdaDelta, thepixiecollective

Kuribo- Gemini: To Listen (0)
Nachomamma8- Pisces: To Let Go (0)
Staeg- Aquarius: To Liberate (2) Nosferatu, zMuffinzMan
LadyLambdadelta- Taurus: To Produce (0)
Dunnstral- Cancer: To Nourish (0)

Not Voting:

With 10 alive it takes 6 to obliterate someone

[AnonymousGhost]

he just didn't flip

How does this lack of a role PM flip connect it to being a possible group scum ability though? To me it sounds more like an ability that would have to be used during the Day Phase, since it's affecting the lynch/flip mechanics, similar to roles like the Judge. We have no idea if scum have day talk or if they can

even

activate abilities like that during the Day Phase. Unless I'm misunderstanding the term 'group scum ability', wouldn't that also imply that some sort of consensus would be needed among the members of the scum team (this also assumes he was a part of a scum team to begin with)?

Can you explain how an ability like this would even work? I think that's why I'm not understanding why a lack of a role PM is group scum indicative/not indicative of an SK.

[AnonymousGhost]

Why wouldn't it help an SK? He flipped as something

other

than town; that's basically all we need to create associations e.g. the Esp & Fey connection.

[AnonymousGhost]

In a role madness game w/ maybe multiple killing abilities floating around, an SK would be equipped a 1-Shot BP for example.

[AnonymousGhost]

Point is - passives do help SKs.

[AnonymousGhost]

You're at L-1 Nos.

you must have missed when I asked for the hammer

No, I didn't.

[AnonymousGhost]

Cause I thought that you'd get over your negative emotions after a cool down period of a few days and play the game.

[AnonymousGhost]

Oh. Wow. My post sounded a lot my empathetic in my head, than what it sounds like when I read it out loud. Sorry. My bad.

Please do not feel too broken up about this; you're only human and having emotions is part of the gig.

[AnonymousGhost]

Cause I thought that you'd get over your negative emotions after a cool down period of a few days and play the game.

unfortunately im an emotional teenager

Being emotional isn't bad. Being emotional is less stressful on the body, in fact!

[AnonymousGhost]

what? you said something like "why would feysal out multiball" and i suggested it might have something to do with the claim he used. you asked how the claim fits into things

Since there's no role flip, we have no way to tell if he was lying about this passive ability claim or not. We can confirm his message and the fact it was redirected to Dunn from Maria. But because he flipped as something other than town, we know that that multi-ball message wasn't delivered with pro-town intentions in mind and that this so called passive ability could've been a smoke screen to increase paranoia/divide the town.

In a nutshell, he flipped something other than town, so I think that both the passive ability claim and the multi-ball message claim are disingenuous.

There are also these two points to consider below

if

, and this is a pretty big if, both of these claims (passive ability and multi ball) weren't a lie to mislead the town.

I still think it's BS though.

AFAIK no other investigative role but myself has claimed, either with guiltless or innocents. Let's say that there are no other investigative abilities in this game, what's the point of this so-called passive ability for a Tracker? It's already proven that passive abilities have no affect on my role - complusive self watcher if targeted - so, my theoretical Track on him would be accurate/not deceived by this so-called ability he had.

plz explain multiball scum motive for BASICALLY CONFIRMING ITS MULTIBALL with a cheeky message to someone who's probably town. Like the whole advantage of unannounced multiball is tgat it's MOT ANNOUNCED.

[AnonymousGhost]

holy shit we won

[AnonymousGhost]

@Fate - Can we have a list of Night Actions? Thank you!

[AnonymousGhost]

But you didn't! That's the important part!

[AnonymousGhost]

YES!!!!! SCUM PTS THAT ARE PAGES AND PAGES LONG!!!! I AM GOING TO READ THE SHIT OUT OF THESE!!!!

[AnonymousGhost]

please dont modkill me

XD

[AnonymousGhost]

yeah Kokichi was kinda the main PR for town

<__<b

HAVE I ACTUALLY SUCCESSFULLY ROLEBLOCKED ANYONE IN THIS GAME?

XD

[AnonymousGhost]

??

Dumb quotes.

[AnonymousGhost]

but that would be really weird if fate threw in a town tracker and a scum super tracker

Weirdness. Confirmed.

[AnonymousGhost]

Spoiler: best quotes

it's important for a scientist to keep an open mind, so im experimenting on a ghost

WHAT DID I LEARN FROM THE GHOST?

well, fuck

the question is... what the fuck does a mermaid warrior do?

i think ill just hope it doesnt do something bad to me yeah

BLOCK DA CUPCAKE AGAIN
SOMEHOW KILL CASPER (AGAIN?)

IM WIMPING OUT AND CHANGING IT TO

SUBMIT DGB TO CHAOS

OTHER ACTION SAME

[AnonymousGhost]

/hugs/

Mafia is stressful.

/more hugs/

[AnonymousGhost]

@Staeg - IM SORRY FOR SUSSING YOU HARD! DX<

I REALLY DONT KNOW WHAT THE HELL I WAS THINKING, BUT I'M LAUGHING AT MY OWN ABSURDNESS RIGHT NOW! XD