911: What's Your Emergency? (Postgame)
-
-
ofrhz Jack of All Trades
-
-
ofrhz Jack of All Trades
-
-
ofrhz Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 5944
- Joined: March 16, 2018
-
-
ofrhz Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 5944
- Joined: March 16, 2018
Why?
-
-
ofrhz Jack of All Trades
-
-
ofrhz Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 5944
- Joined: March 16, 2018
it's not, so explain?
-
-
ofrhz Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 5944
- Joined: March 16, 2018
-
-
ofrhz Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 5944
- Joined: March 16, 2018
-
-
ofrhz Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 5944
- Joined: March 16, 2018
-
-
ofrhz Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 5944
- Joined: March 16, 2018
Why?
-
-
ofrhz Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 5944
- Joined: March 16, 2018
A few of GL’s pushes come off as a bit reachy so far. This quote is good exampleIn post 137, GuiltyLion wrote: also unpack this for me: what do you think the interactions are between rooster and I, S-T or S-S?
like
- do you think we're scum together and we decided to open with him sheeping me, then us mutually agreeing it was a good vote? why is that likely, especially considering how unlikely it is a priori that we're both scum?
- do you think he's scum sheeping misguided town!me?
- do you think I'm scum and he's the misguided town? in which case your reasons for scumreading him were wrong to begin with?
I'm not really seeing which of any of these makes sense from a town!you.
At this point in the game, it’s fairly common for people to focus on coming up with independent scumreads (and for these scumreads to change later) and not really think about partners or the scumteam together. With this in mind, I don't see why the two bolded lines can't make sense?
This push seems reasonable on a superficial level but doesn't come off as arguing in good faith
VOTE: GuiltyLion-
-
ofrhz Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 5944
- Joined: March 16, 2018
Is this a relatively recent change to your playstyle? I've played with you once (Trapped modded by mutantdevle), and I remember you being more open about explaining your townreads there.In post 118, GuiltyLion wrote:I'm not interested in giving reasons for my townread-
-
ofrhz Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 5944
- Joined: March 16, 2018
-
-
ofrhz Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 5944
- Joined: March 16, 2018
Re: the push on Baezu - I think someone else mentioned earlier that they though Baezu's entrance was more null (i.e. "lacked town") and not really scummy, which is kind of what I thought as well. GL later said this wasn't a strong scumread though, so I don't really want to overanalyze thisIn post 157, skitter30 wrote:he's thinking a lot of the things i'm thinking as i was reading through the thread (specifically posts like 40, 44, the bit about tris in 142
i like that he's reaching out to other people and how he was trying to push the game out of rvs (as evidenced by his push on beazu for a lack of early-game contributions)
I did like 142 tho, I'll give you that
I'm not really seeing the bolded? I think he stated a tr on roster and tris, but I'm not sure about forming towncores or even starting toa lot of the things he's saying has the underlying current of trying to progress the game and to get people to articulate reads andto start forming towncoresand it just feels to me like he's trying to get the game into a ~cohesive / game-solving-conducive~ gamestate
ftr not scumreading GL for this, since it's still early, but i'm not seeing how this is a valid reason to townread him.
I see scum motivation in this though. What did you think of my 154?i don't agree with all of his pushes (like, say, the bit where he was pushing mariar for not townreading tris even though her townreads were townreading her; that's a silly reason to expect someone to townread someone at this stage)but i think he's def approachign this with a townie/solve-y mindset
I think the rest is pretty valid-
-
ofrhz Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 5944
- Joined: March 16, 2018
This is fair. I think the bolded is the difference from the situations that arose in Trapped that I was originally thinking ofIn post 158, GuiltyLion wrote:there's a time and a place for explaining townreads, but whenan early scumread is trying to poke holes in your townread on another player- another player who is not really under major scrutiny or lynch pressure - that is not the time.-
-
ofrhz Jack of All Trades
-
-
ofrhz Jack of All Trades
-
-
ofrhz Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 5944
- Joined: March 16, 2018
How do you feel about the current wagons?
-
-
ofrhz Jack of All Trades
-
-
ofrhz Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 5944
- Joined: March 16, 2018
(Current wagons = Elbirn, gl, yes mafia)
-
-
ofrhz Jack of All Trades
-
-
ofrhz Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 5944
- Joined: March 16, 2018
The disingenuous part is the "I'm not really seeing which of any of these makes sense from a town!you."In post 217, volxen wrote:The bolded questions in the post you quoted are fine, there is nothing disingenuous about them.
I don't see why the two bolded scenarios don't make sense for someone with independent scumreads on GL and roster
I think I said why it doesn't come off as in bad faith?-
-
ofrhz Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 5944
- Joined: March 16, 2018
-
-
ofrhz Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 5944
- Joined: March 16, 2018
-
-
ofrhz Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 5944
- Joined: March 16, 2018
I think he has ignored a lot of the main conversation going on and instead chose to vote for lurkers, who are always easy pushes to make. Also kind of gutreading him as awkwardIn post 226, tris wrote:@ofrhz, why do you scumread Invisible?
Another reason why I originally voted him was also bc he said he thought could've been 1 scum in {Elbirn, GL} and then later chose to vote Enigma while not giving a read on either Elbirn or GL, though he later said he was tr'ing both so I'm not sure on this point anymore.-
-
ofrhz Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 5944
- Joined: March 16, 2018
1) I think we have different interpretations of GL's original postIn post 227, volxen wrote:I don't think GL was trying to say anything regarding independent scumreads vs scumteams, just that he didn't understand why Elbirn was individually scumreading either of them. The two bolded scenarios do make sense if Elbirn is scumreading one or both of them, but GL was just asking why that was the case in the first place.
The "I'm not really seeing which of any of these makes sense from a town!you" is a bit over zealous, because it's written in such a way so as to suggest that both GL and Roster are obvtown and that this shouldn't be questioned. Obviously, that is a debatable point. I don't think I would go so far as to say it's disingenuous, if GL believes that he and Roster have both been "obvtown" then I can see town!him saying something like that. I can see all of this coming from a confident town!GL that just thinks it's "obvious" that he and Roster are both town and can't understand why Elbirn also doesn't see that.
2) Re: "I'm not really seeing which of any of these makes sense from a town!you"
I read this as "you're scum because you have two scumreads but none of these partner associations with the two of us make sense." I think that's unfair because early reads are volatile and subject to change, so having scumreads on two people who don't make sense as scum together is fine-
-
ofrhz Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 5944
- Joined: March 16, 2018
-
-
ofrhz Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 5944
- Joined: March 16, 2018
-
-
ofrhz Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 5944
- Joined: March 16, 2018
-
-
ofrhz Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 5944
- Joined: March 16, 2018
-
-
ofrhz Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 5944
- Joined: March 16, 2018
Why?
Do you have any other scumreads?
VOTE: enigma-
-
ofrhz Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 5944
- Joined: March 16, 2018
Is anyone entertained by yes mafia’s play this game?In post 301, Enigma wrote:so yes mafia seems to be a hydra of NotMafia and someone else ...
noting that the one other game they have on that hydra was trollytrolly with self-vote with a D1 lynch and then them flipping mafia, im not sure im keen for a vote on yesmafia rn:
1. they provide entertainment
2. shit associatives post flip
3. someone should cop/vig that shit
Serious question
Reason #1 is an interesting justification for keeping yes mafia around-
-
ofrhz Jack of All Trades
-
-
ofrhz Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 5944
- Joined: March 16, 2018
Yeah I don’t think NM is actually part of the hydra eitherIn post 349, skitter30 wrote:why do you think yes mafia is not mafia-
-
ofrhz Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 5944
- Joined: March 16, 2018
-
-
ofrhz Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 5944
- Joined: March 16, 2018
I guess one of the heads being performer doesn’t mean the other isn’t not mafiaIn post 359, ofrhz wrote:Idk might as well just ask this outright
@yes mafia: is one of your heads performer?
It’s kind of a hilarious duo though for some reason lol-
-
ofrhz Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 5944
- Joined: March 16, 2018
I didn’t really see her vote that wayIn post 336, skitter30 wrote:why are you townreading tris?
i think that her vote on the wagon was quite awful and indicative of trying to ensure that the wagon stayed within lynch-range
I think she voted to keep up the pressure on someone who was periodically popping in but not being very towny. I can see why she unvoted at L-1 to avoid a lolhammer or something, but I generally agree with not backing down from pressuring a wagon when the person being wagoned hasn’t towned it up (so her unvoting at L-1 but revoting to put yes at L-2 makes sense to me). I think her vote on yes also tracks with her statements that she had a bunch of null reads but no strong scumreads at the time.
I think she’s town because a lot of her thoughts mirror mine to the point where I think they’re unlikely to be faked-
-
ofrhz Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 5944
- Joined: March 16, 2018
Didn’t you get really pissed off at not mafia for mislynching you in The Lab?In post 360, Enigma wrote:
no, but i like not seeing the trolly trolly wars NM gets into if it is himIn post 350, ofrhz wrote:
Is anyone entertained by yes mafia’s play this game?In post 301, Enigma wrote:so yes mafia seems to be a hydra of NotMafia and someone else ...
noting that the one other game they have on that hydra was trollytrolly with self-vote with a D1 lynch and then them flipping mafia, im not sure im keen for a vote on yesmafia rn:
1. they provide entertainment
2. shit associatives post flip
3. someone should cop/vig that shit
Serious question
Reason #1 is an interesting justification for keeping yes mafia around-
-
ofrhz Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 5944
- Joined: March 16, 2018
-
-
ofrhz Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 5944
- Joined: March 16, 2018
Is this a tr or an srIn post 381, Baezu wrote:Insomnia- he’s a great player and I totally thought he was town...am I misreading or misinterpreting that post? I know you were trying to explain it to me but I didn’t understand the explanation...-
-
ofrhz Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 5944
- Joined: March 16, 2018
-
-
ofrhz Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 5944
- Joined: March 16, 2018
-
-
ofrhz Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 5944
- Joined: March 16, 2018
-
-
ofrhz Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 5944
- Joined: March 16, 2018
I think town Enigma tends to harp on things that he thinks are scummy and will harp and nitpick on them even if everyone else disagrees
I think that’s basically what he has done here wrt insomnia-
-
ofrhz Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 5944
- Joined: March 16, 2018
Can you elaborate on this meta read?In post 403, Baezu wrote:
Based on meta...I think his play here is town...I know that meta reads don’t really count for much so I’m definitely keeping my eye on that slot for more info as wellIn post 386, ofrhz wrote:Baezu why do you tr volxen?
I do think metareads are worthwhile-
-
ofrhz Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 5944
- Joined: March 16, 2018
-
-
ofrhz Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 5944
- Joined: March 16, 2018
-
-
ofrhz Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 5944
- Joined: March 16, 2018
-
-
ofrhz Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 5944
- Joined: March 16, 2018
Tris has expressed thoughts on the game that I have never even voiced in the threadIn post 424, skitter30 wrote:ngl i don't see anything as being particularly unlikely to be faked.
I would say yes, that kind of mind meld is hard to fake-
-
ofrhz Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 5944
- Joined: March 16, 2018
Why is this push a thingIn post 425, skitter30 wrote:
were you ok with lynching him at that time?In post 370, tris wrote:My unvote was more of a reaction to seeing that I had accidentally put Yes at L-1 without realizing it and without announcing it. I wasn't opposed to it being brought to L-1 as long as people are aware of the fact.
In the past, you have been completely fine with pressuring a lurker by wagoning them while at the same time, expressed discomfort with putting the same lurker wagon a L-1. That’s the same exact thought process tris had here-
-
ofrhz Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 5944
- Joined: March 16, 2018
-
-
ofrhz Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 5944
- Joined: March 16, 2018
-
-
ofrhz Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 5944
- Joined: March 16, 2018
From town to scum:In post 453, Baezu wrote:Ofrhz- do you have a reads list?
Tris, Elbirn, insomnia
Enigma, GL, roster
volxen, Maria
Vizzy, skitter, yes, baezu-
-
ofrhz Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 5944
- Joined: March 16, 2018
-
-
ofrhz Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 5944
- Joined: March 16, 2018
Are we really going to get bogged down in semantics
Yes mafia was popping in to give little content and making questionable votes - ie yes you could call that active lurking
It wasn’t evident at the time that yes mafia would not yield to pressure. in fact, I think yes mafia has become ever so slightly more open about his reads-
-
ofrhz Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 5944
- Joined: March 16, 2018
I think this is a reach and doesn’t take into the obvious explanation that has already been explained like 3 timesIn post 548, skitter30 wrote:it felt like she was trying to keep the momentum on the wagon, but made sure to remove herself from it when it got too close to a lynch so she wouldn't like *actually* be on it when/if a lynch happened-
-
ofrhz Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 5944
- Joined: March 16, 2018
You’re not me so how can you see the mind meld, especially when I said that I haven’t expressed these mind meld thoughts in the game?In post 547, skitter30 wrote:
i don't see it.In post 526, ofrhz wrote:
Tris has expressed thoughts on the game that I have never even voiced in the threadIn post 424, skitter30 wrote:ngl i don't see anything as being particularly unlikely to be faked.
I would say yes, that kind of mind meld is hard to fake
her posts are kinda just ~there~, almost like she's using them to demonstrate that she's like *present* and *posting* than to like sort people. her questions and observations are shallow and i don't think she posted anything particularly more likely to come from town than scum.
also this feels like a not svs associatives between you and tris
I skimmed anuket topaz and didn’t get the impression that tris was really all that different there. I would say you’re not really engaging as much as compared to that game though
And in terms of impact on the game, I don’t think you’ve had as much as you would’ve had if you were town. Like you written a lot of text so far, but it hasn’t spurred forth the game and just comes off as trying to “look town.”-
-
ofrhz Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 5944
- Joined: March 16, 2018
Are you townreading skitter?In post 553, Invisibility wrote:hey does anyone know how to stop being bad im having a ton of trouble forming reads and stuff this game-
-
ofrhz Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 5944
- Joined: March 16, 2018
-
-
ofrhz Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 5944
- Joined: March 16, 2018