Mini 2206 - Deja Vu: Perpetual MELO IV - END!
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Disaster Cartel Goon
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literally 4 pages agoIn post 3401, Venus Fly Trap wrote:I strongly believe infinity is scum, and am planning on voting her today. I will consider voting notsci as well-
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Disaster Cartel Goon
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like she literally said that she was entertaining both you and notsci (who you're meant to think is scum) at the start of today
and instead of trying to get her to do that which then gives like, ~reasonable~ chances of winning from your PoV
you're acting like this is a foregone conclusion and there's no point and oh woe is me I've made so many mistakes and saying that you'll vote yourself (?!?) which is literally just gamethrowing if you're town-
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I just don't see how this makes any sense from your PoV in a world where you're town but I think scum!you feeling that your goose is cooked and deciding to just go the path of least resistance (what ur doing rn) while probably letting your buddy bus u makes a lot of sense as the only way for you to have a shot of winning tomo-
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Disaster Cartel
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Disaster Cartel Goon
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I for one would love to hear more about how despite it being "one of mom/DC" scum yesterday while u wanted me it's now "DC is scum anyway"In post 3296, Infinity 324 wrote:I feel like the way this is playing out makes it clear one of DC/mom is town and the other is scum, if you think I'm scum with mom no hard feelings but this is an important decision.-
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okay but when u come back next time can u explain what u mean hereIn post 3525, Iverson wrote:I am not terribly worried about getting in DC's way even if he is town here.-
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okay but you also have posts like this which make it sound a lot like that that's not you just referring to how you think cakez should be seeing the game, but that it's also your perspective that only one of me/mom is scumIn post 3328, Infinity 324 wrote:I can't see a viable third partner for DC/mom
and then there's also your complete flipflop on skitt from skitt!town to skitt!scum for pushing mom and defending me from being limmed yesterday only to... completely jettison your (VFT, DC) theory from yesterday and to go so far as to say you'd vote yourself if that's what skitt wants
like that doesn't make any sense to me as a progression-
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(1) okay, why? this solve just seems so collectively off and doesn't really fit with the gamestate yesterday at all. not to mention, from what I can see you spent far more time trying to undercut skitter than trying to focus on bork, and I think the simplest explanation for that is that bork was amenable to voting me and skitt very clearly wasn't going to. I think you wanted to win yesterday, and the simplest way to do that was to try to undermine my key supporter and disregard... basically anything elseIn post 3532, Infinity 324 wrote:
The way I make sense of the game in the late game is a very team-focused perspective. The way I saw it, yesterday the most likely possibilities were:In post 3528, Disaster Cartel wrote:
okay but you also have posts like this which make it sound a lot like that that's not you just referring to how you think cakez should be seeing the game, but that it's also your perspective that only one of me/mom is scumIn post 3328, Infinity 324 wrote:I can't see a viable third partner for DC/mom
and then there's also your complete flipflop on skitt from skitt!town to skitt!scum for pushing mom and defending me from being limmed yesterday only to... completely jettison your (VFT, DC) theory from yesterday and to go so far as to say you'd vote yourself if that's what skitt wants
like that doesn't make any sense to me as a progression
1. 1 3 scum in {notsci, bork, you, VFT}, most likely you, bork, VFT
2. 2 You/mom/x
3. 3 Many other possibilities could go here and I wasn't sure which was most likely. I was hoping someone else would propose a different solve, but I couldn't see one. However, all these possibilities combined were probably more likely than #2.
For obvious reasons mom flipping scum made #1 impossible and #2 more likely. I still can't think of a third option that makes a lot of sense (still open to possibilities here). To me, skitt is basically confirmed town because strongarming a bus when mom was not getting limmed otherwise seems insane to me. It's more likely if you're also scum, yes, but it's still unlikely. 4 I also thought your interactions with lilith early on were unlikely to be scum theater, which I considered yesterday but it wasn't enough to outweigh my other evidence. Now it is.
That's part of it, yes, but a bigger part is that you're the biggest other option and I don't actually believe you're scum atm. A convincing case on you could help, sure, but I don't believe you've played like scum this game even if you are. 5 My heart just isn't in pushing you, and 6 going against consensus to push someone else when I feel like I'm so likely to be wrong again is not really something I'm interested in doing right now. Another part of it is that I can't argue against people scumreading me for consistently pushing town over scum, and 7 being pushed for that when I'm already so upset with myself over it is pretty unpleasant. Obviously that's kinda just part of the game but it's certainly not my favorite part.In post 3530, notscience wrote:For the record my posting was not to push Infinity
Part of why I feel like she feels so overwhelmed regardless of alignment is noones done shit to try and kill anyone but her today and yeah we just opened but all anyone’s done re me is mild sus
A case would help
(2) which leads me into this -- I've cited two posts of yours above from yesterday where you said that you didn't think mom/me were teamed together because of the way the day unfolded. if this was a genuine thought process, I don't think you come in today and after briefly AtEing and voting notsci, switching back to me bc you think I'm the easiest miselim. basically the only person who really TRs me is skitt and bork kinda did. so from scum!you perspective pushing me makes a lot of sense, but from town!you perspective you'd have to be totally disregarding your process from yesterday which doesn't follow because
(3) there's no real reason you provide why if yesterday "all these possibilities were more likely than #2" things are now different. again, I think if you're town you try to reevaluate given that you'd have been consistently wrong throughout the game. instead, you're trying to have your cake and eat it too by going "oh man my reads have been really bad whoopsie... but btw it *is* still mena, and oh, don't worry about the fact that I was trying to push him yesterday vs the confscum flip we have on mom". it's like you're not actually trying to generate any possibilities for your supposed scenario #3, you're just trying to bend things back around to me being scum
(4) this also just... doesn't really follow? how has the likelihood of my doing scum theatre different today vs yesterday?
(5) this feels like you're trying to walk back on notsci bc you don't think he's the most likely slot you can wagon today, and because you think he's less of a threat at this point than I am. when notsci entered he was saying "it's me or infinity" and you were perfectly happy to go after him. now he's shown like any doubt you're trying to bring him on board with you and switching your target back to me, despite this not being consistent with your supposed earlier thought processes
(6) but you just said earlier that you think one of your biggest mistakes this game was NOT going against consensus earlier in the game. why is this different now? you were making an issue of how going with consensus has led to us to here and that you wish you hadn't, only now you're switching back to "well, guess I'd better go with consensus bc I don't wanna be wrong again"
(7) this is just more AtE in the exact same vein of "oh no we're so lost I'll vote myself if skitt wants me to :sad face:" which, exactly as I said, you had no intention of ever doing-
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this feels a lot like you realised that your approach of trying to lump us together yesterday didn't work and so you're switching tack to trying to just undermine skitt (the only person other than me to have hard pushed scum, I might add) instead of trying to actually sell us as a teamIn post 3536, Infinity 324 wrote:
To be very clear, I don't believe this is what happened. I'm pretty sure skitter is town here. The question is mostly how skitter sorted mena wrong, and I don't have a good answer besides "skitter is human".In post 3533, notscience wrote:It would also beg the question why would skitter stick her neck out to save one scum partner by bussing the other
only there's a very large difference here which is that skitt is in a hydra, something you've been totally neglecting as part of this. I don't *need* to sort skitter head if she's paired with someone else who I have a very good read rate on, and lili is someone who after reading her wrong in our first couple of games, I'm p sure I've read correctly in every game we've had since. so no, I haven't had as much direct engagement or paranoia about skitt as normal bc since lili got pissed off me on D1 I've been pretty certain that she's town because I don't think she chooses to actively guilt me like that over getting pissed off with her as scum. if she did then she's more ruthless than I had her pegged for, but I really doubt thatIn post 3537, Infinity 324 wrote:I can quote some of skitt/mena's interactions, but it comes down to very little direct engagement compared to what I expect from them. This was definitely not the main reason I suspected they were partners (low activity from mena helps explain it) but it was a small contributing factor.-
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she said, trying to convince everyone DC was scumIn post 3541, Infinity 324 wrote:This is not meant to convince anyone that DC is scum here, it's mostly just to show my thought process.-
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Disaster Cartel
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and this is exactly the crux of my issue with you -- it's that we *have* to be scum for you, and I think that's something you need a lot more than scum than as town. I don't think that it's true that any of the other slots left bar I guess skitt have been that much more towny than us, but you keep repeating it like it's fact. again, we were right on nacho and opposed that. I was right on NM and pushed that. my misses were on peta and I guess kind of on mom in that even tho I called it I wasn't able to really push it yesterday due to extenuating circumstances.
so I think you're kind of backed into scum reading us because it was more convenient earlier and bc there's at least one town slot who's unsure on our alignment and so you think we're more viable than the others are.
I don't think I'm ignoring anything on the mom/us scumflip thing? my point is that your argument yesterday was "it seems unlikely there's more than 1 scum in mom/DC". if that's not what you were saying, explain how posts like 3328 make sense? and your framing is very disingenuous -- you say scum could have gotten us flipped yesterday -- I think scum tried really hard to get us flipped yesterday and p much only didn't manage to bc of skitter! but you're not considering things like cakez/iverson bc, again, it's a lot easier for you to push a narrative that we're scum and to try and get our flip given how we're perceived by others in the game than by seriously reconsidering us and looking at the others
why does our game make sense from scum in a way that prism's doesn't? cakez has had broadly similar positions to us throughout the game so why is it that we're apparently scum and he's not there? it just comes down to the "feeling very town emotionally" thing or what
and besides which, what exactly has notsci done in the last like, 6-7 pages that moved him from the person you wanted to vote to being "much townier" than us-
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fine, whyIn post 3552, Infinity 324 wrote:I said that it wasn't enough to outweigh my other evidence yesterday and it is today
if you think it's not theatre today, why didn't you think that yesterday
idgi-
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what were the particularly towny posts that notsci made that made you reconsider then?In post 3553, Infinity 324 wrote:
Mena I started showing doubt on notsci when he started making towny posts, I'm pretty sure he didn't show doubt at all up until that point. I also think notsci is the most likely player to get limmed besides me todayIn post 3546, Disaster Cartel wrote:(5) this feels like you're trying to walk back on notsci bc you don't think he's the most likely slot you can wagon today, and because you think he's less of a threat at this point than I am. when notsci entered he was saying "it's me or infinity" and you were perfectly happy to go after him. now he's shown like any doubt you're trying to bring him on board with you and switching your target back to me, despite this not being consistent with your supposed earlier thought processes
(6) but you just said earlier that you think one of your biggest mistakes this game was NOT going against consensus earlier in the game. why is this different now? you were making an issue of how going with consensus has led to us to here and that you wish you hadn't, only now you're switching back to "well, guess I'd better go with consensus bc I don't wanna be wrong again"
I'm not quite sure why I said 6, because I don't really scumread anyone outside the consensus anyway, but if I did it's true I would certainly have difficulty pushing them. Yes it would absolutely be correct, but there's only so many times you can push against consensus and be wrong before it wears you down.
and you haven't pushed outside of consensus all game! yet the game has gone completely off the rails and you said you considered that following of consensus a mistake only to hit today and to... go after the probably most consensus-y scumread that's not you (and maybe not notsci but I think notsci has more people who are ambivalent on him than are on our slot)?-
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right but I also don't think this makes sense given the situation we're in. like scum need only one more lim to win. instead of like really going back through and wanting to make sure all your TRs are justified it seems like you're doubling down on them for flimsy reasons (especially on prism who I think has a lot of partner equity with you) and pushing us instead. it feels a lot more like you want to go for the win today now that you've climbed down from the woe is me stuff yesterday and that the easiest way for you to do that is to come after us, much in the same vein you did yesterdayIn post 3557, Infinity 324 wrote:
This is only partly true, I said in UGC that it's a bit +scum for me to have too many TRs but it also happens to me most games as town.In post 3554, Disaster Cartel wrote:and this is exactly the crux of my issue with you -- it's that we *have* to be scum for you, and I think that's something you need a lot more than scum than as town.
the big difference is that now my move is complete and I can actually take time to respond to this and to solve the game and I don't need to rely on skitt to stop us losing-
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I guess that's true but your "solve" yesterday also involved pushing two slots I know to be town as being scum, one who I'm p sure is town to be scum, and all of that away from confscum so you can see why I'm a liiiil bit sceptical here. also you say you wanna trust others reads: but one of the main things you're trying to argue is that skitt is just wrong on us despite skitt being p much without a doubt the best person on mafiascum(dot)net at reading me. like literally there is nobody else who reads me as consistently well as skitter does as both alignments, and while I have fooled her when I've been scum in the past it's been a loooong ass time.In post 3563, Infinity 324 wrote:
Well yesterday my solve was very outside consensus. I guess what I'm trying to say is that me being wrong emotionally makes me really want to just trust others' reads. Mom flipping scum does make going inside consensus a bit more reasonable too, because it means scum aren't in control of the game most likely.In post 3558, Disaster Cartel wrote:and you haven't pushed outside of consensus all game! yet the game has gone completely off the rails and you said you considered that following of consensus a mistake only to hit today and to... go after the probably most consensus-y scumread that's not you (and maybe not notsci but I think notsci has more people who are ambivalent on him than are on our slot)?
and I also don't get the "scum not in control of the game" thing. like there's something to be said for that with mom flipping but I don't think we see the first two days be town flips without scum having pretty decent control of the game? or like what's your alternative explanation for how we're still a day away from even having a shot at winning if scum haven't had decent control over the game so far-
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please, bc I'd like to see thisIn post 3565, Infinity 324 wrote:Yeah cakez had a meta of bussing a lot and pooky said somewhere that he's now allergic to bussing, I made a mental note of it. Will try to find it.-
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feel like ur kind of sidestepping notsci here but w/e. okay, I'll go back through your posts yesterday again on prism!slot but like... idk, I don't think salsa was towny at all, and even if u think she was I'm confused by how you think it was to such an extent that prism just gets a passIn post 3565, Infinity 324 wrote:Obviously I don't think my townreads are for flimsy reasons, yesterday I went through my reasons for TRing prism. I'm weighting my salsa read a decent amount here, which makes me more comfortable having a strong TR on a strong scum player.-
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like again to stress this, but from what I've read of prism's D3 it just doesn't make a lot of sense overall not specifically doesn't make sense from scumIn post 3551, Infinity 324 wrote:I don't think prism's day 3 play makes any sense from scum
and someone (I wanna say maybe unwnd or Shirou) made a point to me a lil while back that I've kinda taken to heart that if someone's play just makes no sense as either alignment and you really don't get it, that makes them scummier not townier-
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I mean I think I understand at this point maybe the problem is more that I'm struggling to believeIn post 3568, Infinity 324 wrote:
I'm not sure how many ways I can say the same thing until you understand. D3 I thought you and skitt were scum together for other reasons (skitt pushing mom was a big one) which to me outweighed the unlikeliness of you/lilith being scum theater. Now that those reasons are gone, you/lilith interactions get weighted more heavily and for that reason and others I don't think you're scum with VFT.In post 3556, Disaster Cartel wrote:
fine, whyIn post 3552, Infinity 324 wrote:I said that it wasn't enough to outweigh my other evidence yesterday and it is today
if you think it's not theatre today, why didn't you think that yesterday
idgi
I think it's very hard to read the interactions between lili/me as scum theatre, there's just like.. a lot of emotion there that I don't know if I could fake as scum and which even if I could I really don't think she could. I think you looking at that would put a lot of weight on that and so your thing of skitt being scum for pushing mom>us and that being sufficient evidence to overlook the reasons to think that we're not aligned seems false. like your position on it today makes sense. but your position on it yesterday makes a lot more sense to me if it's not something you really believed but something that, if you wanted to try to win yesterday, you had to push as an angle-
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I don't think you were particularly loud since like... D1? so I kinda think you're assigning yourself an outsize weighting hereIn post 3571, Infinity 324 wrote:me both being very loud and very wrong-
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I mean, I'm pretty sure you're just scum and that again, we're the easiest push here for you so I get it in that senseIn post 3571, Infinity 324 wrote:honestly trying to find a solve without you in it would drive me insane atp.
but idk, I feel like from past experiences with town!you you don't just lock down into a tunnel like this for two days (or more?) straight especially as the other bits of information I think would be making you reevaluate and reconsider-
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idk infinity like
you just feel very agenda-y this game and especially today and yesterday
and it's like there's a lot of little tings that just feel super off
like yesterday you lolcatting at us when we weren't around and being like "lol I don't need to convince you of anything ur scum let's lim DC" and then today the way you're engaging with me feels a lot more like it's to try and make yourself look towny than it is because you really have that much interest in engaging with me at all, but more like you can't just push the lim on us by lolcatting again so you have to make it look like it's kind of considered and thought out-
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ehh, I guess this kind of makes sense or is at least NAIIn post 3578, Infinity 324 wrote:I'm sidestepping notsci because even if notsci is scum, unless one of my other 3 TRs is scum you still have to be scum here.-
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I mean, I'm not saying that weird=scum that's much too simplistic. I'm saying if you really cannot fathom why someone is playing a certain way or how it benefits them as either alignment, that person ends up flipping scum more often than not. I can find examples from some of my recent games if you like, bc I've only started adhering to this position because I think it is actually significantly better than rand. if you think prism's play makes sense as frustrated town that's not what I'm talking about -- my point is that /to me/ I don't get prism's play *at all* on D3. again, this might be because he was posting stupidly wordy catchup posts that were melting my poor exhausted skull when I was trying to read them on the bus moving shit from my old flat to my new one but honestly the once through pass I've given them today hasn't helped matters a lot, and I do think that's +scum for him. but like skitter and cakez both seem to disagree, so I would like someone to talk me through what's towny about them. if you wanna talk through how they make sense as frustrated town butIn post 3578, Infinity 324 wrote:Yeah I disagree from a theory perspective, people are weird and just do weird things sometimes, whereas even if scum aren't specifically trying to avoid weirdness they often will because their play is crafted. I think prism's play d3 makes some amount of sense from town who is frustrated with how the game played out, and of course that doesn't explain everything but the scum perspective seems so unlikely that it's good enough for me.don'tas frustrated scum, go for it (or if I missed that in your posts from yesterday, point me the right way) but I think the frustration aspect is NAI and that means looking at them from the angle of what they're wanting to accomplish within the game and that doesn't really make sense to me or isn't something I can grasp-
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I am town and if this were early game I'd say that you have a pointIn post 3582, Infinity 324 wrote:If you're town mena I don't really blame you for being wrong on me here. I do sort of wish you'd take into account our previous experiences a bit more (specifically, my play tends to be a lot more all over the place as town and you often have issues with that), but /shrug
but I feel like the way you've engaged with our slot but more specifically me just feels so deeply wrong that I'm not sure how I'm meant to walk back from it. there are just too many inconsistencies with your thought processes, the way you've been playing all game has been very +scum, and I feel like the way you've been playing from yesterday into today is just very in line with what scum would want to do
I could also flip this back on you, which is that I think you've more often been wrong on me when you've thought I was scum and I've been town and I think when I've been scum against you (not sure if it was just that one game or if there are more) you've normally thought I was scum, but the fact you also don't seem to have considered that feels ehhh to me-
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imagine being me this gameIn post 3580, Infinity 324 wrote:but maybe people weren't really listening to me at that point.-
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name 1In post 3594, SirCakez wrote:DC keeps making terrible posts-
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but I'm not? I've pretty clearly stated that I think it's infinity/iverson the vast majority of the timeIn post 3597, SirCakez wrote:i hate how DC keeps trying to widen the elim pool
my point is that I don't get why infinity, if town, isn't considering anything beyond her DC!scum solve being the lynchpin that everything else revolves around-
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(1) no, see (3)In post 3614, SirCakez wrote:
1 the one I quoted with you trying to get Iverson and me into the elim poolIn post 3605, Disaster Cartel wrote:
name 1In post 3594, SirCakez wrote:DC keeps making terrible posts
(2) I don't see a chance in hell Iverson made some of those posts yesterday as scumIn post 3608, Disaster Cartel wrote:
but I'm not? I've pretty clearly stated that I think it's infinity/iverson the vast majority of the timeIn post 3597, SirCakez wrote:i hate how DC keeps trying to widen the elim pool
my point is that I don't get why infinity, if town, isn't considering anything beyond her DC!scum solve being the lynchpin that everything else revolves around
(3) Why should Infinity have to change her reads? (4) there's little evidence suggesting you are town
you have to read everyone's commentsIn post 3611, Disaster Cartel wrote:also @cakez I just ISO'd you in the postgame of among us and it didn't really clear things up on why you wouldn't bus nowadays
I was criticized a lot for bussing too heavily that game
(2) like the two you quoted above ? because what exactly do you think is in there that is beyond reproach or that isn't within any even reasonably competent scumplayer's repertoire?
(3) I'm not saying infinity has to change her reads you absolute melt, I'm saying that it /does not make sense/ that infinity is this tunnelled and not reconsidering at all GIVEN that what she apparently believed previously. if I have the thought of "oh huh, X/Y don't make sense as a team" and then one of them flips scum and then I go "wait actually I know X was scum but I think Y is still probably scum" that DOES NOT MAKE SENSE. especially when the game is up in the air. you know what doubly doesn't make sense? is when you enter the day going "mmm yeah it's probably me or notsci" and then pivoting back to the exact same shit you were on the day before especially when it's confirmed that she was pushing it against a scum wagon. like do you need me to spell things out for you. is that it
(4) WE HAVE PRACTICALLY THE SAME VOTING PROGRESSION THROUGHOUT THIS GAME. like what. why do you think I even reconsidered you in the first place? do you have actual reasons for why we're scum? like any? other than blah blah oh trying to widen the limpool when again, that's very clearly not what I was trying to do and that should be blatantly obvious if you have even a vague sense of reading comprehension given that at no point was I trying to get votes anywhere other than onto infinity and at no point am I actually trying to get infinity to vote elsewhere other than me. like I could give a fuck where infinity votes, the important thing is that what she's trying to say does not make sense-
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because you're playing like trash, you should feel bad, and I want you to understand very clearly that if we lose this game the loss is exclusively on you at this point for being so fucking stubborn and arrogant not to listen to anyone who's better than you and especially for not listening to, again, the person on the site with the best read rate on me bar none who has been telling you FOR DAYS that I'm town and just continuing your shitread on us despite not having spoken to me since like day fucking 2-
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Disaster Cartel Goon
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In post 600, fferyllt wrote:In post 950, fferyllt wrote:In post 1825, fferyllt wrote:In post 2150, fferyllt wrote:In post 2200, fferyllt wrote:In post 2575, fferyllt wrote:-
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Disaster Cartel Goon
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Disaster Cartel Goon
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Disaster Cartel Goon
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Disaster Cartel Goon
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Disaster Cartel Goon
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Disaster Cartel Goon
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but you know what even if it is harsh where's the lieIn post 3627, Infinity 324 wrote:
This is over the lineIn post 3625, Disaster Cartel wrote:and you're just so fucking good you've got that strong insight that you just know we're scum right
that's why you're such a strong player who never gets misyeeted and is always getting N1'd and why I constantly get misyeeted and scum never fearkill me or marginalise me
now I'm going-
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Disaster Cartel Goon
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I'd like to apologise to everyone for making the game unpleasant but especially to cakez, that was over the line and I shouldn't have said it. You're a very good player and I didn't mean it, and it was unfair to you. Sorry also to ffery for making you have to get a replacement. I'm probably going to take a day or two before I come back.-
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Disaster Cartel Goon
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I can get into this more later but for now I'd like to draw attention to the way that morning has approached this rep in and the fact that it fits *incredibly* well with her being infinity!partner:
In post 3703, Morning Tweet wrote:Is Venus/Infinity a viable scumteam or am I way off the mark?
(on page 6 lol)In post 3708, Morning Tweet wrote:me too sort of
you were second or third to defend NM and i am biased against everyone who said "No let's not policy NM"
additionally you seemed more passive like theres not a lot of SRing and more i guess normal questioning and less interesting stuff
Like from my two game baseline i think you had a push on me fairrrrlly early in royalty and i forget what happened in one night stand
as it is presently I was thinking less likely cakez/notsci scum and if i had to pick between you and disaster for one, well
starts off by slapping down a scumlean on infinity from like suuuuper early on when infinity was actually looking fine (I don't really think infinity starts to get scummy until considerably later in the game so MT being like "oh yeah infinity = bad at the opening" should stand out because I'd like to remind everyone that basically nobody had significant doubts about infinity in the early game. why? because infinity's posting in the early game *was good* and was strongly replicative of her towngame)In post 3716, Morning Tweet wrote:I've got two schools of thought where i think A.) scum has to do mental gymnastics to justify not voting outA NM or B.) they make somewhat of a show out of siding against NM to look betterSpoiler: Infinity and Mena discuss NM
As it was, Momrangal/Lion was not in the game. Not_Mafia was himself. Leafy shaded NM but didnt really weigh in on it directly.
Venus/Infinity openly defended whilst Mena was pretty heavily against NM.
i dont really recall notsci or cakes focusing on it too much
I find it reaaally hard to buy that no scum assisted NM at all and it was just one bus on him by Mena!scum (two busses after voting leafy). In a game where scum are gonna be dying each phase that's certainly valuable to scum though so im not really counting disaster out
Also I was kinda getting the sense Mena might just be frustrated with NM so it'd be NAI but dont know yet
lolIn post 453, Kismet wrote:like is that really your argument? "shit i got that 10 out of 11 townreads (or somewhere in that vein), but fuck, DANGER ZONE, better play defense"
I skimmed mod iso to the final VC and apparently NM wasn't even in contention by the end of the day like I thought he was so okay then moving on. The Nachomamma interactions are so long i dont really read into them super deeply but SIGH they're probably just as or more important
so what's the benefit here? scum is doubling down on trying to get my lim through for the second day in a row. infinity doesn't really have the traction to push it through alone, but MT!slot is like ~fairly TR and MT is also someone who enjoys playing scum and who's good at it, and I think the person much more likely to stand a chance of gaining traction. but! there's a problem, if MT joins and immediately goes for my throat without acknowledging that my play has been towny at all, that seems far less convincing and it's also far more transparent tomo that she's partnered with infinity, assuming we get that through. so instead there's these nods to how I'm town and an effort to create some form of distancing with infinity, at least to create reasonable doubt vs someone like notsci for tomo if they can't win today
I'll prob let ydra deal with this when she does get here, but we were talking yesterday bc I wasn't in a great way tbh, and she mentioned that she thinks it's sus that the meta angle is being pushed against her specifically when she just finished a scumgame with infinity where she was like the polar opposite to this and also that she's had like a general low mood thing that she's starting to come out of re: games in general. also this game has just been a fucking slog overall, so I think trying to make that into this strongly AI thing for ydra is offIn post 3722, Morning Tweet wrote:In post 892, Nachomamma8 wrote:
i don't like this from disaster cartel. i find it a frustrating experience as scum when i defend lynchbait (or don't push a townie who everyone is railing against) and they don't townread me back. this looks like this - i don't buy thst mena thinks we're gonna townread each other because we have similar readsIn post 528, Disaster Cartel wrote:My not thinking it makes sense that I should be townread in general =/= I don’t think nacho shouldn’t be townreading me more and find it kinda weird he isn’t given that I’ve been on a similar trajectory to him but also, importantly, have gotten there on some things before him (like voting leafy). Given that I can’t just be sheeping him bc of that, I find it weird that someone who’s coming to the game from a v similar viewpoint in many ways, he doesn’t see as town
(cause like, yes)In post 894, Nachomamma8 wrote:i also have used my amazing detective skills to gleam that ydrasse is someone who is super town when they're town
and they are not that here
and also regarding the second, maybe Ydrasse isn't always super town as town but im on a big streak of Ydrasse!scum games where she plays identical to what i have read thus far
this is where the walkback begins and it's pretty much entirely based on WIFOM or on the assumption that infinity has a weak scumgame... which is EXACTLY the same argument that infinity has been trying to sell today and yesterday and throughout the game of just "oh I'm not good enough to have done this as scum I've just misplayed things". I don't think morning comes across as particularly interested in thinking about whether infinity is really out of range or not, and doesn't really have any actual reasons why infinity couldn't/wouldn't be able to do that as scum, it's just like a pure discourse thing "would infinity reaaaaaally do this" like yes? why wouldn't she? MT's not engaging with reasons of why she would or wouldn't and is just using this to try and justify coming round to an infinity townread which continuesIn post 3726, Morning Tweet wrote:Would infinity reeeeallllyy defend misty/beeboy reeeeeeeeeeallllllllllllyyyyyy thoughhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh (944)
Plus that other stuff that was confbiasing me aka leafy hard tring infinity in 604
Shiiit im impressed if Infinity hard defends misty and pushes Nacho as scumIn post 963, Infinity 324 wrote:Nacho I'm not sure what to tell you, I'm not even just continuing to SR you for the same reasons from early on because you continue to post things that look scummy to me. It's just not worth it to go into that because you're not going to change my mind. I'm not exactly sure what scum!you is supposed to do if me/bork/notsci/VFT are all town, you tried to push VFT and it didn't take. And for everyone else, I don't know who you're bussing and not (though I have some ideas) and I'll figure it out when you flip scum. If you're town, I'm sorry and I'll re-evaluate my view of the game and heavily weight your reads because I know you're a good player and you'll be confirmed town to me then. I just don't see that happening atm.In post 969, Nachomamma8 wrote:
You're not the first person to say this but it's not correct.In post 963, Infinity 324 wrote:you tried to push VFT and it didn't take.
If I was scum here I would be pushing townies to die. People can disagree with me and I'd still push for townies to die because playing scum is all about cracking trust and breaking down townblocks. Like in Order of the Stick when I got edged out pretty harshly by a solid townblock I kept pushing at people like Wisdom even though it wasn't popular because you need to push mislynches to win as scum. Here ESPECIALLY I would only need to kill one townie in order to safehouse myself so I can guarantee that I would get that one townie lynched.fucking hell i just dunno if i see it
Okay i was gonna ask if Venus could be scum with Disaster then since strongarming mom wouldn't matter in that caseIn post 3718, Infinity 324 wrote:I'm pretty sure VFT is town because skitt singlehandedly strongarmed the elim on mom yesterday. Since DC was likely the other option, there is some world where she's still scum with DC, but that seems very very unlikely to me still.
Why do you find this world unlikely? Or what *is* more likely, i suppose
here. we've now had a complete reversal and MT has managed to line up with the exact same position as her pred in the important elements, which is that infinity!town and us!scum. this is scum's easiest path to a win, and I think that all of MT's posting reads as motivated by getting to that end state. what she's saying about notsci and VFT is fairly immaterial I think, but the cakez pocket attempt (the easiest next person to get onto me) is I think p blatantIn post 3732, Morning Tweet wrote:bottom line right now is cakes is town
infinity seems like town
Notsci and venus i dont know. both seem to have positive things going for them but from what i can tell Leafeon/Momrangal/NM were all pretty easily scum so i expect at least one scumteam member to have done well for themself
and Disaster seems like scum
eeh?
I don't want to make this too long and I gotta head out bc I'm going to get a covid test done but I think her trajectory and posting around notsci is also v much aimed at trying to defuse there and to get notsci on board which is probably a slightly harder task than cakez-
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like remember, if it's notsci/infinity then there's not a great deal of reason for them not to bus here at the beginning. like maybe they back it off and they're hoping that they can quick hammer if I get to two
but if it's infinity/Mt then there's a lot more motivation to just go for the win today because even if we get infinity, MT is probably still not on the bottom of the block and there's a good chance of winning for them tomo, which means I think the fact that this is blatant isn't clearing in the way that it might be if MT like, desperately needed to increase her endgame equity-
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oh, there's also one more thing I want to mention bc its being brought up and weaponised again which is ydra's switch off NM onto bulge and the main thing is like
why would she do that as scum? like there's pretty much zero need to do that as scum and it actively makes the game harder not easier for exactly the reason that it can be used as a way to discredit my consistent push on NM (which also lol @MT trying to make that sus in and of itself because "mena seems too comfortable with it" like, morning, we've played together, you know that when I'm happy with a push confidence in pushing it is not something I lack and if anything presenting a lot of doubts about the person I want to flip while pushing them is scum!indicative for me)
why is there zero need to do it? because nobody was really saying that bulge/NM needed to be TvS and the general feeling was that they were probably s/s. if we're scum all we need to do is keep our vote on NM and then we never get pushed via this angle lategame. kismet still gets limmed and the bulge is like a super viable mislim the following day. which means that we end up in the same situation as we're in today, with the same players p much exactly, only in a much improved gamestate for any world where we're scum-
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lol if this was like anyone else morning I'd be shocked by the audacityIn post 3775, Morning Tweet wrote:Best of luck Disaster-
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