Mini 2230: Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night: Game Over

[Dunnstral]

LLD being untargetable is something I overlooked

[Dunnstral]

Isn't it possible for us to lose if we first eliminate two town, and then eliminate mafia the next day? Wouldn't we need to commit and eliminate another town?

[Dunnstral]

Not to be that guy, but…

viewtopic.php?p=12766674#p12766674

[Dunnstral]

But town has a mechanic to hand out shards

[Dunnstral]

Do you know how broken it would be if scum

with multi-tasking

could effectively make two demons in one night?

The problem is your role is unconfirmed and if mafia you'd have a way to fake it

[Dunnstral]

We are no longer rolling the dice on her ability. The only thing that makes it fail is a roleblock-esque ability that we have not seen.

So what are you saying we do? You want dragons to die on snarky fishes?

[Dunnstral]

Nobody's fucking role is confirmed.

Not true from my pov

[Dunnstral]

@rhea is there a specific theme for your character

[✓]

Human in flavor?

[Dunnstral]

Annie's role makes sense as town, though. Do you disagree?

Otherwise the ways for town to get information is only my role and lld's role

[Dunnstral]

Just post a picture of the character you are Rhea.
Google it.

-Bell

Yeah I'm trying but not finding characters that aren't on Luke's list

[Dunnstral]

I dunno I find it weird that LLD accuses both of us of trust telling last game and now she suddenly votes both of us when we're playing pretty much identically.

-Bell

[Dunnstral]

But FF said I shouldn't think about the flavor and just instant gib Dragons for flavor claiming scum.

How so?

[Dunnstral]

OK I just read her wiki page. I can see the angle.

[Dunnstral]

I also find that the flavor fits the roles rather well from the claim's we've had so far.
With the exception of Medea who isn't an NPC but just a millerish-monster.
Even Alfred makes sense. But FF said I shouldn't think about the flavor and just instant gib Dragons for flavor claiming scum.

-Bell

Wait until you get to the wiki page for my character

[Dunnstral]

What was your claim again Dunn?

I am Gebel

[Dunnstral]

I think the plan of Dragons voting Snarky Fishes and both dying is a good one

If Dragons is scum then that's that

If not, it removes corrupted Snarky Fishes and potentially turns manatee into a desharder, which they can use that night

If none of that stuff happens, then it's probably bad (at the very least Snarky fishes won't be corrupted living town)

[Dunnstral]

Unwnd, AA9, Here there be dragons.

Scum, Scum, Scum

Lukewarm, ManateeGal, Rhea

Town, Town, Town

[Dunnstral]

Medea the Alien, Dunnstral, Annie Edison

Snarky fishes, Spiffeh, Borkjerfkin.

All town even Bork

[Dunnstral]

Could the third mafia just be a goon?

[Dunnstral]

Scum having no power aside from corruptor and BP feels weak.

Well the win condition got changed from 7 to 9 mid-game and it still feels like we're about to lose, so it can't be that weak...

[Dunnstral]

I think the plan of Dragons voting Snarky Fishes and both dying is a good one

If Dragons is scum then that's that

If not, it removes corrupted Snarky Fishes and potentially turns manatee into a desharder, which they can use that night

If none of that stuff happens, then it's probably bad (at the very least Snarky fishes won't be corrupted living town)

what changed your mind?

Dragons is in my potential scum grouping still. I wouldn't agree to annie hammering you for example.

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: ArcAngel9

[Dunnstral]

My vote can be considered pressure for you to hammer Snarky fishes if you are town (before we eliminate you normally), which would be optimal.

And it is evident that scum fabricated some bull shit tale about me being corrupted and luring town to vote and it is working.

I'm not going to believe that this is a real misunderstanding

[Dunnstral]

Please feel free to eliminate me. I am demonic anyway, one less demonic player in the game which means that scum has to demonize someone else. This way it will be one less demon to their second win condition.

And those who think I am lying about my understanding of the game flavor or setup. I read it twice but still didn't make sense to me. So I won't bother trying to make any sense of it anymore.

Did you read the game though?

[Dunnstral]

Ffery, I legit think it's Annie here.

Town's information gathering roles are myself, LLD, Annie

Of which Annie is the most straightforward for town power, though my role ended up being surprisingly strong, especially with dual protectives (though both gated) in the setup

[Dunnstral]

Please feel free to eliminate me. I am demonic anyway, one less demonic player in the game which means that scum has to demonize someone else. This way it will be one less demon to their second win condition.

And those who think I am lying about my understanding of the game flavor or setup. I read it twice but still didn't make sense to me. So I won't bother trying to make any sense of it anymore.

Did you read the game though?

I did, Why do you think i am scum? And why did you vote me?

I have no problem taking a hammer vote. I am not afraid. I was simply not here!. I am on V/LA during weekends!!

You are not demonstrating that you have read the arguments very well

Maybe I am underestimating language issues but it feels like you are either playing up your misunderstanding or haven't looked into what people are saying very closely

[Dunnstral]

Your posting was about them getting sharded, not their claimed role, right?

[Dunnstral]

Is there any reason scum annie doesn't fake a guilty on spiffeh/dragons/aa9 and go for the win?

[Dunnstral]

UNVOTE: Arcangel9

[Dunnstral]

DEMON

1. Pooky (Start) (Dead)
2. Medea (Start)
3. ArcAngel9 (N1)
4. ManateeLass (N2)
5. Annie Edison (N2)
6. Spiffeh (N3)

HUMAN

1. Titus (Dead)
2. LLD
3. unwnd
4. Snarky
5. Lukewarm
6. Dragons
7. Dunnstral

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Snarky Fishes

[Dunnstral]

My vote can be considered pressure for you to hammer Snarky fishes if you are town (before we eliminate you normally), which would be optimal.

[Dunnstral]

Give whoever we are eliminating today a chance at least to hammer Snarky Fishes

[Dunnstral]

There is no downside to placing snarky at e-1 and asking aa9 to hammer if that is who we've decided on. This is insurance in case we're wrong.

Pivoting to vote them out directly probably won't take a long time

[Dunnstral]

We're not eliminating annie

[Dunnstral]

Unwnd has spent all game pushing bad elims that I haven't wanted to go through, it's getting kind of obvious

[Dunnstral]

And even if AA9 is scum I'm still chilling because both of them are demons

Not if they're corrupter

[Dunnstral]

You're the one who came in here caps lock on trying to change the elimination at the last moment

[Dunnstral]

All game is not just D1 you goof

Yeah, was including days 2 and 4 too

[Dunnstral]

You even get a free mislim if AA9 is scum.

Scum aren't going for the kill win condition, which you should be able to grasp.

[Dunnstral]

If she's scum, she explicitly has to be scum WITH Dunn, or you have to think that "hider who also gets their next action blocked if they hide behind a demon" is somehow a scumrole in this game.

If that's what demonphobic means. It makes sense, but it could mean something different.

Maybe something like "not able to participate in the scum PT while there are demon scum".

I'm spitballing, I know. and we're probably wrong about Rhea, but if we're right I hope that becomes a hell of a lot more obvious before town loses.

One of my hopes is that scum have a finite number of shards and corruption shots, and that the corruption on us being wasted before we're demonized MAKES A DIFFERENCE in scum's ability to get there.

Remember how I claimed reflexive rolecop on day 2?

If Rhea's role had language alluding to not being able to do stuff in the scum pt, she wouldn't have targeted me

[Dunnstral]

No way in hell scum have limited shards. That limitation would be in the role PM or it'd be unfair.

MAYBE corrupter is limited, gods I hope it is.

Dunn probably asked bork for clarity on his result, so.

Clarity on what?

[Dunnstral]

What the word "Demonphobic" or whatnot means.

I'm pretty sure he can't/won't tell me that, the only info I get is role names

[Dunnstral]

If she's scum, she explicitly has to be scum WITH Dunn, or you have to think that "hider who also gets their next action blocked if they hide behind a demon" is somehow a scumrole in this game.

If that's what demonphobic means. It makes sense, but it could mean something different.

Maybe something like "not able to participate in the scum PT while there are demon scum".

I'm spitballing, I know. and we're probably wrong about Rhea, but if we're right I hope that becomes a hell of a lot more obvious before town loses.

One of my hopes is that scum have a finite number of shards and corruption shots, and that the corruption on us being wasted before we're demonized MAKES A DIFFERENCE in scum's ability to get there.

Remember how I claimed reflexive rolecop on day 2?

If Rhea's role had language alluding to not being able to do stuff in the scum pt, she wouldn't have targeted me

I thought you got the ability name? not the descriptive words?

Yes, but that's not what I was claiming on day 2

[Dunnstral]

What the word "Demonphobic" or whatnot means.

I'm pretty sure he can't/won't tell me that, the only info I get is role names

Then I don't understand how you preclude the possibility of demonphobic meaning "can't post in the PT with demons"?

Remember how I claimed reflexive rolecop on day 2?

If Rhea's role had language alluding to not being able to do stuff in the scum pt, she wouldn't have targeted me

[Dunnstral]

Rhea thought my role worked like 'reflexive rolecop', not 'reflexive namecop' when she targeted me

I think it's silly to assume that scum would gamble on it being the latter and target me anyway.

Not to mention the fact that she's a hider and the only purpose of that role for scum would be to look good for my ability

[Dunnstral]

What would have matched the flavor better in your opinion?

Probably something related to the fact that she's a shardbinder

The two shardbinders are Miriam and Gebel, and I don't have anything special like that

[Dunnstral]

(So Annie's role claim is fine)

[Dunnstral]

[Dunnstral]

Without the error it looked like Snarky Fishes voted where they were already voting. Is this really out of AA9's scum range?

[Dunnstral]

OK.

That makes me think it is Unwnd.

[Dunnstral]

Can someone tell me what stops Dunnstral from being scum independently?

Agh.

My quick wits and towny disposition

[Dunnstral]

Can someone tell me what stops Dunnstral from being scum independently?

Agh.

-I'm not the corrupter due to my role
-Town power is weak without my role
-I wasn't a part of either wagon which has lead to bad things
-It doesn't make sense for me to stop the Medea elimination on day 2 as scum, even if I had wanted pooky to be eliminated (It ends up being neutral at best if poky isn't eliminated (except that town has less info), but if pooky gets eliminated on day 3 after, especially considering the theory that it was one of pooky/medea floating around, scum may be either to win the game or be 1 away

[Dunnstral]

Medea, does it make sense for town to have no direct investigative role?

Leaving us with just lld and myself

[Dunnstral]

At this point, I don't really care, and am ready to hammer you if unwnd refuses.

I don't want you to hammer

[Dunnstral]

I can confirm Spiffeh's role.

I was visited by the corruptor and given a shard. They are additionally a tracker with the Semi-permanent modifier.

[Dunnstral]

I wasn't corrupted, I was just visited by the corruptor, likely to be given the shard*

[Dunnstral]

Well this sure is a mafia game

Hi

Can I get your opinion on why I wasgiven a shard by the corruptor, giving me info, instead of a different member of the town

[Dunnstral]

So semi-permanent sounds like a tracker who targets the same person every night after their first check until they die

[Dunnstral]

Oh P.S. I confirmed that I can say I am a Macho Deathseeking Bodyguard

This is what I'm confirming

[Dunnstral]

Yeah well now it’s necessary lol

But I’m also down to say fuck it and just lim whoever we think is the corrupter too.

I told myself I’d sheep today so I’m down for whatever

So our options today are what

1. Elim mbe because I'm sharded
2. Elim Dragons because they're human and Manatee is potentially a backup desharder
3. Eliminate the corruptor.

Except how are we going to know who the corruptor is vs the other mafia?

Well, it's not me, medea, LLD, spiffeh for sure, but does anyone think anybody in this pool can be the other non-corruptor mafia?

[Dunnstral]

Actually we lose if we do #1

[Dunnstral]

I'm also inclined to believe that Luke is not the corruptor. Otherwise scum wouldn't be 1 day away from winning which would be a weird tactical choice.

I've just comprehended that the corruptor can act every night. Wacky. Also they're not novice or shot limited.

[Dunnstral]

I don't think mafia not corrupting night 1 was a gambit.

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Annie Edison

[Dunnstral]

It's Manatee and Luke.

They'd just push Annie...

[Dunnstral]

Please enlighten me

A hider is not immune from the factional sharding ability, or any other ability except ones that would kill.

I'm not a commuter folks. I'm a hider. Asking the mod this question tells you point blank that truth.

What are the chances the scum didn't ask?

I realized this partway into yesterday and was trying to bait relevant information out of annie at the start of this day. I didn't want to be the one to reveal this

[Dunnstral]

LLD being untargetable is something I overlooked

Yeah. It was dunn

I was responding to somebody else

[Dunnstral]

Luke is either not the corruptor, or he gambited and corrupted nobody (which means we don't lose if we vote the non-corruptor scum). I think him being corruptor is very unlikely.

If we eliminate the scum who is not the corruptor today, I believe that we lose unless that elimination was on dragons and manatee becomes a desharder

[Dunnstral]

LLD I think your role was perceived as a bit stronger than it is in balance phase, and town has a lot of towny seeming roles for my ability, which would make Annie's claim less likely

[Dunnstral]

I can confirm Spiffeh's role.

I was visited by the corruptor and given a shard. They are additionally a tracker with the Semi-permanent modifier.

Well this sure is a mafia game

Hi

Can I get your opinion on why I wasgiven a shard by the corruptor, giving me info, instead of a different member of the town

OK let's go over this:

The humans were Luke, Myself, LLD, Dragons. Let's assume all town for a moment.

Of those, Luke is the obvious choice to turn into a demon.
If Manatee and Dragons are town then Dragons is a bad choice, because giving them a shard makes it too efficient to just kill them and have Manatee use their role

That leaves me who gets role information and LLD. We have information that scum would not have known 100% whether LLD's role would block being sharded or not. They likely did not want to risk it.

If you look at the wiki page for hider, it says:

Some moderators cause hiding to apply to things other than kills. This commonly happens defensively; instead of being Bulletproof against direct actions while hiding, the Hider would be treated as a Commuter for direct actions.

[Dunnstral]

luke what do you think of the novice corrupter theory?

[Dunnstral]

I can confirm Spiffeh's role.

I was visited by the corruptor and given a shard. They are additionally a tracker with the Semi-permanent modifier.

They're not novice

[Dunnstral]

We have to eliminate the corrupter today

[Dunnstral]

Why are you not voting luke dunnstral?

He is not the corrupter or if he is, we won't lose because he wouldn't have been corrupted

[Dunnstral]

We should progress this game instead of letting it die

It sounds like we are eliminating Annie or AA9 today. I lean towards annie, personally, but it looks like most people are going back to aa9 with some talk of manatee as well

[Dunnstral]

The above post gives me weird feelings

[Dunnstral]

12. Spiffeh - Not the corrupter, and if scum has to explciitly be the not-cporrupter-anbd-human scum with Annie only.

He is never scum with his role

"deathseeking" can't be a modifier that mafia has because town has no ability to kill at night

[Dunnstral]

AA9, why are you voting for yourself and not Annie?

[Dunnstral]

At a certain point if she keeps her self vote on there's nothing I can do but wash my hands of it. Sigh.

It's possible for her to be mafia but not corrupter though.

What if annie and aa9 are both scum and they swapped what night they became demons?

[Dunnstral]

ok, but why were we self voting as town in limlo?

[Dunnstral]

also i thought you'd catch Dominique on flavor, who is the main antagonist of the game. HBTD had a fakeclaim (Johannes) and elected to go for a higher risk play, which ended up working well.

I was gebel

[Dunnstral]

I liked the mechanic

But the way the beloved princess + corrupter accelerated the win condition was too much