Mini 2247: Mountain Dew Mafia (Game Over)

[Critter]

This will also help me see if I am wrong on my Kyo read too So good stuff there.

[Critter]

My list is this:

Towelie (hydra of borkjerfkin and notscience)
E. M. M. I.
Milk & Mocha (hydra of PookyTheMagicalBear and Noraa)
Something_Smart
StrangeMatter
ssbm_Kyouko

And it is because LLD can then pick a name from the majority and then if someone objects when on their would elim pile it’s a red flag.

[Critter]

It gets away from the “I townread them” crap too. Either you’re willing to elim someone or you’re not and it forces stances.

[Critter]

Take you VFT you’re the main wagon

lld
critter, gamma
wisdom
dunn, mush
strangematter, ssbm
emmi, something smart
towelie
mm

That’s you’re reads list. Where is your cutoff for would elim?

[Critter]

It also doesn't allow people to qualify their choices or express preferences. I'm really not sure it would be as useful as asking for reads.

That’s exactly the point.

Other posts can express nuance and be read for such and see where shit lines up. But end of the day this is a snapshot and “this is where I am” and you can’t do like “maybes”

[Critter]

It gets away from the “I townread them” crap too. Either you’re willing to elim someone or you’re not and it forces stances.

Yeah I’m firstly a PoE player, and this can be backed up by most of the game

I’m good, thanks though.

So am I and that’s my PoE of would elim.

What’s you’re PoE of would elim?

[Critter]

So you're going to get people making arbitrary decisions that they don't believe in and that's not going to tell you much.

Oh no they do believe in them. They’ll be forced into making those tough choices they don’t want to quantify.

Am I okay if X is elimmed? Really?

Then if they compare it to their read wall and go “yeah I am good” or “wtf I am off somewhere”.

Players do read walls all the time. It’s just a matter of a simple line of “okay here or under I am willing to elim” I don’t see what the issue is.

[Critter]

have i played with u before btw?

I have played with a majority of the list here before. I don’t want to say who I have and haven’t played with SS I would like my alt to last a few games.

[Critter]

have i played with u before btw?

I have played with a majority of the list here before. I don’t want to say who I have and haven’t played with as I would like my alt to last a few games.

Wth autocorrect

[Critter]

Take you VFT you’re the main wagon

lld
critter, gamma
wisdom
dunn, mush
strangematter, ssbm
emmi, something smart
towelie
mm

That’s you’re reads list. Where is your cutoff for would elim?

emmi's row and below, with ss being the border between the 2 groups
but i'm again just gonna point out that the broader exercise is probably not going to go anywhere just now

See not that hard.

I don’t get why people are resistant to who they would be okay elimming.

[Critter]

(Because it’s abundantly clear you’re using this to try and derail VFT without really fully going into your townread on them)

I already went into why earlier. You disagreed.
My reason is stilly my reason.

If a majority of people want VFT as an elim then they do.
I can’t exactly derail what people want.

Are you scared your miselim won’t happen?

[Critter]

Are you scared your miselim won’t happen?

Big talk from chief of the “KYO IS FLAVOR HUNTING” committee

I have accepted that I don’t have the words to convince on Kyo. She’s not a miselim though. It’s a matter of finding scum with her.

[Critter]

Also reverse mindset is a thing. Like the more you say one thing, the more people dont wanna do it.

I am aware of that. Ugh this is when I wonder if I should dip into my scum meta and manipulate people intentionally.

What’s your would elim list?

[Critter]

he was p clearly trying to indicate that should back off

I know that. notty knows that. notty doesn't really care, we talked about it, decided that we weren't going to vote him at this time (i did not want to) but I was ok continuing the line of conversation

i don't feel like me repeating this again is going to convince you so

-b

This is literally good cop bad cop scum.

[Critter]

I gotta go but will be back when I can but I am pretty confident in my PoE.

[Critter]

I might trade EMMI for Smart in my solve but I am pretty much there I think.

[Critter]

It’s why I haven’t really been pushing you guys, skitter.

The amount of people doing “covert” reads this game is dumb. Town should be more focused on killing scum than hiding shit. If he TRULY thought she was scum for whatever the duck it is, he would have outed it.

Not when doing so announces 1-2 other PRs so no thanks. I would rather be treated as an idiot and wrong.

[Critter]

This is really hard to follow for me even with brain functioning. Let me be clear about the little bit I picked up on.

Even given the POV that VFT is offering for Critter, I note Critter isn't giving any other people who may be unclaimed PRs the time to put together their own plans. This isn't me softing -- it's saying that the viewpoint you're putting out there for Critter is at odds with Critter's own play, especially when Critter is this aware /of/ other PRs being in the game, and Critter already saw someone accusing me of doing the logical outcome of following your assertion to its conclusion would be (i.e. Something_Smart saying "my goal is the only one that matters" sarcastically).

Also, Critter is demanding town cohesion without allowing town to cohere naturally. They're trying to force the cohesion. I don't see a PR who has utility in doing that deciding to willingly draw that much attention to themselves, as VFT is suggesting is the case. It is, however, probably the only case where ssbm's talking about outing Critter's supposed softclaims in a strategic manner actually makes more sense than leaving well enough alone -- but that's not a good thing by any means for Critter no matter who or what they are in terms of role.

However, I am at this time satisfied that LLD made a good pick for elimination target.

Because they aren’t.

No one is actually talking to each other they’re talking through each other.

Yeah I am not best at rallying the troops but no one else is trying either.

It’s all my way or the highway but at least I am blunt enough to fucking say it.

You’re just sitting there talking about how I am doing things badly.

How about you get off your butt and lead town to who you want elimmed?

Just going “LLD picked fine” is not cohesion it’s settling and going “I don’t get what I want guess this is fine”.

[Critter]

If there was actual evidence of me squashing something then me wanting to end the day would be bad.

Instead it’s a bunch of active lurking with a few exceptions.

[Critter]

Critter, my brain is in no state to lead town. This isn't a defense, I'm so far out of my meta that anyone who trusts in meta should be calling for me to die today no questions asked, and I both recognize that and literally cannot do anything about it since it is due to forces beyond my control or anyone else's right now. I'm barely functional enough to read the game and make decisions for myself about what I'm reading. I'm visibly fucking up basic stuff when I write up my posts on a regular basis. I'm not leading town, that's a terrible idea right now and you of all people should see that for what it is, presuming you aren't red (which, for me, is presuming an awful lot right now).

Also! It isn't settling. I actually think it's a good decision. I had my doubts to start (mostly to do with VFT needing to get their bearings...), but seeing how VFT conducted themselves since the pick has proven the point for me.

Finally! Yeah, I'm active-lurking. What would you do if your brain suddenly refused to function and you could no longer trust yourself to make fully-informed decisions in the game? If nothing else I'm not willing to rally town behind a blatantly obviously doomed march like the world's most disastrous conga-line.

1-2 I am not going to touch that with a ten foot pole except to say I hope you feel better. I won’t judge someone’s brain space.

I don’t know what you’re meaning by this post though. You say you’re not qualified to make decisions/reads?
Yet you’ve decided that there’s a “doomed” March like a conga line?

It feels like you’re trying to say “I am not capable”. If I was in your shoes I would stop attacking someone trying and build up what you want to see instead. Positivity is good.

[Critter]

And since I just realized it might bear some explanation: I'm still bringing up what I see despite my current impairment because I often see things other people don't. If everyone is like "well, whatever", I don't trust myself enough to press the issue with them. But I won't just remain totally silent on it because what if I do see something important? What if that wouldn't have been brought up? Would I be doing town any sort of service by keeping my mouth shut?

I'm asking you honestly. If you think I should shut the hell up and not chip in again for the game, you fuckin' got it. This is your one chance to buy my silence, Critter, and there will not be another.

If you don't think that, then you need to do more than act like I'm obviously out of my mind. You need to address my points.

I am not asking you to shut up. I am asking you to be positive. I don’t even follow what you need addressing other than you disagree with me on my Kyo read and think I am playing self centered. I am playing town centered with things I can’t explain. So I like don’t follow what you need from me.

[Critter]

No one is actually talking to each other they’re talking through each other.

Feels inaccurate to me. If anyone's talking through people it's you.

Really? Name a read of yours you’ve collaborated with someone on. I can’t even remember what your reads are except you haven’t shared them. I have asked you for them in many different ways and gotten stonewalled. You wanna say you’re collaborating show me.

[Critter]

Theatre is the only possibility imo, so unless it's exactly Critter, Gamma, M&M, Gamma probably not scum.

So your answer is I am scum with no one?

Wisdom asked who I am scum with.

Me Wisdom and VFT all have very similar scumreads. Either one or more of them are scum or there is town cohesion and scum you doesn’t like it.

[Critter]

Critter is MathBlade

you dont say

You're in scum's pocket, cut the sarcastic shit and rethink

Ffs I was trying to just lurk this out and not have my alt outed. Even if you thought it was me the least you could do is shut up about it.

So yeah hi :/ I have been trying to work on a new meta but it’s entirely fuckin infuriating when I can’t.

[Critter]

Speaking of the troll claim, would be interesting to see Critter's reaction there. When LLD and Dunn fought, he was involved in discussion without taking a stance on it (121).

I didn’t as I didn’t know what I thought yet. LLD is a notoriously hard player for me to read and so I was shutting up and listening even though I usually disagree with her.

[Critter]

Now I guess to answer the other questions:

Yes Skitter we have played together before obviously.
Yes I find Dunn and Gamma easy enough reads with time
Yes I am decent scum. I am working on getting there for town.

Yes I use boil reads and reads with time as both alignments.
I hate meta tells of any way shape and form and want to be judged by what I say in a certain game.

[Critter]

Gamma, if scum, is definitely a rolecop

You will see I have a very particular reason M&M is on my town list and no I won’t share it no matter how much that ticks you and your scumbuddies off.

It’s one of the TRs I am less certain on (hence willing to elim pile) but yes I have my reasoning for TRing an obviously fake jester play despite the fact that annoys me a lot.

[Critter]

This is literally Kyo knowing she’s outed so she’s attacking townfirms. It’s pretty bad. Going to try sleep again but please don’t let Kyo near elo.

[Critter]

You did this stupid shit in the normal too. It was wrong then. It’s wrong now. I have roughly 10 years + mafia forum experience on this site and probably if you take the other sites and throw them together even more. I assure you I have a unique way of phrasing things due to my brain chemistry so I pick my words very carefully even when I fast type. That’s how I know I do not have that tell you have made up.

That boil/wait is standard I don’t know. Now I could sit here and glorify you with a response but I have no desire to ever read through all of my games when it’s fundamentally irrelevant.

The big questions are am I scum? And who with?

I am quite literally with > 90% confidence one of the few players you will not be able to language tell on.

What am I doing in the game that’s scummy?

[Critter]

viewtopic.php?p=13039116#p13039116

Alt account 10 minutes given time I can read Cakez.

Just stop this.

If I am scum why?

[Critter]

I think you can do a reads wall/list and keep the nuance. Please.

Okay, I guess...
ssbm_Kyouko
Critter, MUSHSHAGANA
Everyone else
Wisdom

If that isn't satisfying, well, I told you so.

This doesn’t say anything though.

This doesn’t say who is in your elim pile and who isn’t and it doesn’t give me an idea at all about who you scumread.
This isn’t satisfying because I have no idea where you stand on half the game.
Then you didn’t want to say who was in your elim pile.

[Critter]

I personally think it was fine. Critter was attempting to have his cake and eat it too. You can't simultaneously preserve a secret alt and expect people to treat you the way they would treat someone with 30,000 posts.

This wasn’t a “I want respect from 30k posts” this was a “I don’t want people to tarnish my reads because MathBlade”. I wanted to distance myself from prior meta while trying to show that I am improving. This was just me trying to not be me. It’s why I referred to myself in the third person and tried to joke post.

[Critter]

And I can give you my elim pile, but you aren't going to like it.

I would love it. Even if it’s just me. Because more sorts.

[Critter]

And in WH13 I was fucking right on Cakez too the shade is noted Towelie.

Because they aren’t questionable ideas.
I am one of the best PR players on site. Now that I am outed I can say that.
When I say we should end the day we should ya know end the day.

[Critter]

When I say we should end the day we should ya know end the day.

If only you had been playing this game on your main, this might have had some weight to it...

And now it should.

And I am not getting into a meta thing with Kyo. I am not ignoring her posts I am deliberately not responding as anyone who has long term experience with me knows I am town knows how I soft and can go back find them rest of what I softed. Maybe why I suspect Kyo but that may be too far a stretch I dunno. I can’t decide things sometimes.

[Critter]

I disagree with the assessment of Math but why is he in your elimination pile if it appears you are recognizing this as his townplay?

Oh I misinterpreted. I never said that was his townplay? And besides I have you in my elimination pile and I townread you. It's because I recognize that my reads are often bad, and mafia is about teamwork which requires compromise.

Dude just went to my if not Kyo this.
And what do you think I am doing? I have been fucking trying to get reads from people so I can heat map and LLD can do her thing. As much as I want Kyo I am not spamming the thread with Kyo!Kyo!Kyo! No matter the BS she keeps saying. And yeah you have several times said this is my town play in so many words.

[Critter]

And in WH13 I was fucking right on Cakez too the shade is noted Towelie.

Good. You could use a little shade w/ the attitude you've got.

You spent the other half of the game pushing Titus who wasn't scum. My point wasn't that your reads are generally bad, just that you're hard headed about them.

-b

Titus was someone I waffled on because she went against two scum wagons and was having an off day for her. I said Cakez or you and she backed off. So yeah she was in my PoE along with y’all.

Please stop this meta shit already. It’s stupid. Work with what’s in this game.

[Critter]

When I say we should end the day we should ya know end the day.

If only you had been playing this game on your main, this might have had some weight to it...

Describes Math's towngame

Well if he were playing on his main then it would be reasonable to be confused.

But I think this does check out from my experience.

These literally call me town.
Then you say “this (my posting) checks out from your experience”
Yet bottom of reads list c’mon man.

[Critter]

Er, third sentence of the second paragraph. "As much as I want Kyo..."

As much as I want Kyo I am not tunneling her.

[Critter]

Yet bottom of reads list c’mon man.

You did not just deadass ask me for an unordered execution list and then misinterpret it as a read list.

My dude.

They’re the same thing my dude. Town doesn’t put town at the bottom of the execution list.

[Critter]

As much as I want Kyo I am not tunneling her.

No I get it, that's the one sentence I do understand and appreciate. The REST of that post confuses me. But it looks like you misunderstood.

Yeah reread it again because that post is very clear. I am noting my compromising. Not playing word semantics with you and Kyo.

[Critter]

Lmao Kyo you can stop now
You’re not getting me elimmed if you’re scum
And if you’re town you should be listening to the TRs

Since people TR Kyo here
VOTE: Something Smart

[Critter]

Yeah reread it again because that post is very clear. I am noting my compromising. Not playing word semantics with you and Kyo.

I just went to your if not Kyo this. Extremely ungrammatical, but I gather that I'm now your second scumread behind Kyo. This seems to have been based on a misunderstanding. Do you retract it?
What do I think you are doing? I obviously don't know, you are either trying to advance town wincon or trying to advance scum wincon. Can you be more specific?
You have been trying to get reads to heatmap. Fair enough, that worked for you before, though I'm skeptical whether it will work here. I'm not sure how that's supposed to help LLD.
You are not tunneling Kyo, thank you, I appreciate it.
I have said several times that it's your town play. Also sounds like a misunderstanding. I had you as leantown a while ago but that's it.

LLD can use the lists to pick a read in her townread’s would elim pile.

So she can go say “Players A B C D are my townreads who do they agree can go”
Hmmm they all say “E can be elimmed, can they?”

It creates cohesion as well as acts as a barometer for reads

[Critter]

But she's probably not going to. She's obviously already doing her own thing.

And she is doing her own thing with posts here. It’s a tool. Not the be all end all. Why are you so against people stating plainly where they are? I like don’t get this.

[Critter]

It seems to me that your scumread on me appeared due to a misunderstanding. But the misunderstanding has been cleared up, and you still seem to scumread me. Why?

Because I scumread your lack of willingness to be protown and other posts. I don’t know what you mean by misunderstanding cleared up. You played word games to try to discredit my point and literally is used in hyperbolic sense a lot. I just don’t care to play the game scum wants since I doubt I make it past D4.

[Critter]

Why are you so against people stating plainly where they are? I like don’t get this.

I mean people are free to do it, but I just don't think it will be very helpful.

Take my execution list for example. I took the playerlist and deleted myself, the IC, and my top scumread. (And you didn't even remark on that.) How much is that going to really help you?

Because I notice small things heat of the moment and take a while to have the calculator machine that is my head go brrrrrr I would have noticed.

[Critter]

I think if M&M was town we would have seen some more traction

i'll concede that this is possible, esp w/ m&m basically just not playing

-b

Hence why they are in my would elim pile but I think they flip town.

[Critter]

Because I scumread your lack of willingness to be protown and other posts.

I mean, what's protown is subjective, but I did the thing you wanted even though I felt it wasn't protown. That kinda feels like the opposite of this.

You did so and did so badly because you know I am right and refusing further would have looked even worse. You have spent a shit ton of posts complaining about my ask versus just doing it and then going on your merry way. It’s like if I asked everyone to post the word algebra. You might not get it and it might not help you but it won’t harm town. You can try to paint getting reads as antitown but I doubt you succeed.

[Critter]

You did so and did so badly because you know I am right and refusing further would have looked even worse. You have spent a shit ton of posts complaining about my ask versus just doing it and then going on your merry way.

I mean, that's fair, but it doesn't take a genius to realize that you're going to keep pressing me if I resist it. I knew you were going to, I'd know that as scum, it's not like I could seriously expect to get out of it if for some reason I wanted to.

Quite honestly, that's an egocentric thing to believe-- that I would be so afraid of YOU personally that I would go out of my way to disrupt your scumhunting methods.

It’s not about me personally. I really wish people would stop bringing ego and self centered in here. Resisting giving reads is scummy. It has nothing to do with me at all.

Ugh I have to go to work but this is ugly.

[Critter]

Yeah reread it again because that post is very clear. I am noting my compromising. Not playing word semantics with you and Kyo.

I just went to your if not Kyo this. Extremely ungrammatical, but I gather that I'm now your second scumread behind Kyo. This seems to have been based on a misunderstanding. Do you retract it?
What do I think you are doing? I obviously don't know, you are either trying to advance town wincon or trying to advance scum wincon. Can you be more specific?
You have been trying to get reads to heatmap. Fair enough, that worked for you before, though I'm skeptical whether it will work here. I'm not sure how that's supposed to help LLD.
You are not tunneling Kyo, thank you, I appreciate it.
I have said several times that it's your town play. Also sounds like a misunderstanding. I had you as leantown a while ago but that's it.

LLD can use the lists to pick a read in her townread’s would elim pile.

So she can go say “Players A B C D are my townreads who do they agree can go”
Hmmm they all say “E can be elimmed, can they?”

It creates cohesion as well as acts as a barometer for reads

See this is the kind of mumbo jumbo you try to pull on town when you're scum. You try to direct in a mechanically pleasing way that makes sense on the surface but if you stop to think about it, it's more often than not going to be pro-scum to let an uninformed townie pick an execution from amongst 12 players when the ratio of town to scum is 3:1. The odds of hitting town only go up if your buddies have claimed or softed PRs (M&M, possibly Gamma), because it's unlikely that someone who has claimed or softed is going to be prevalent in the elimination piles that LLD would be parsing here. This is like when you directed ELO with "fake voting" in my Mini 2242 that just ended. On the surface it sounds nice, but really this just gives scum an IC to hide behind. There needs to be discussion.

If it comes down to it, sure, I'll probably sheep LLD if it's on one of my compromise slots if I can't get your or M&M, but we still have 3-4 days I believe. I caught DGB with less than that.

The fake voting was and still is correct in multiplayer ELO.
I just played Townie.
If the same thing happened here which I hope not then I would do the same.

I don’t lie about mechanics as either alignment almost if ever.

Please stop with the meta you’re bad at it.

Stick to this game. What is scummy?

[Critter]

What is VFT at?

Please let it be noted I strongly disagree with this elim.

[Critter]

Just curious; how popular is/was Mountain Dew DEW*S*A?

It was one of the last ones I tried before I started calorie counting and i really liked it. It was like sparkling berry, reminded me a little of whiteout which I guess makes sense because it was a mixture of whiteout code red and voltage

Remember this if day ends when I am afk

[Critter]

What is VFT at?

Please let it be noted I strongly disagree with this elim.

Need to stop dropping off with this game, doing the exact same garbage in another game.

Again, can you explain why you don't want VFT?

Because he Wisdom and I are all syngergized on reads, I don’t think Skitter does what she did earlier as scum and Imho it’s a huge hit to the town block.

[Critter]

She* sorry whoops

[Critter]

blegh I have bad feelings about critter WKing us now

- lilith

I admit I will be incredibly surprised if both you and critter are town here.

And I would be surprised if Skitter isn’t town. I don’t know enough about lillith to judge her but I think Skitter is town. I don’t get your VFT argument at all.

I just want to know where the vote count is so I don’t accidentally hammer.

[Critter]

blegh I have bad feelings about critter WKing us now

- lilith

I admit I will be incredibly surprised if both you and critter are town here.

And I would be surprised if Skitter isn’t town. I don’t know enough about lillith to judge her but I think Skitter is town. I don’t get your VFT argument at all.

I just want to know where the vote count is so I don’t accidentally hammer.

Why are you considering voting her now when deadline isn't really close, there is clearly support for it already, and you're against this elimination? It's not like we're at the point we have to compromise or risk missing deadline.

Because this day has to end.
I have like no hope of giving LLD what is needed.
This game is pretty much lost from my POV and I am trying to be positive and trying to not do what I am used to but I don’t see how unless I just cave and LLD sees she was wrong.

[Critter]

Critter is MathBlade

just want to say that this is utterly awful form and i hope you never do it again

notty suspected it was mathblade ever since he brought up mathblade unprompted, but at the surface this feels very much like w13 math where he tunneled on a few slots most of the game and kinda refused to accept anyone else's worldview, so knowing it's math makes me townread the play more.

-b

Yeah outting the alt leaves a bad taste in my mouth, especially when everyone then uses meta. But what can you do once the cat is out of the bag.

I will say I’ve done the “out the alt to level the playing field” thing a bit as scum but that was in the face of a rather obnoxious meta tell
This I don’t think falls into the same bin, kyouko basically honey trapped Critter by letting him think he was going unnoticed until he’s gone too far to pull back
Kyouko did similar stuff to me in Radio Buzz, so this is very likely town!Kyouko

It is and always obnoxious and I am not scum here so there’s nothing to honey trap.

Like let’s just miselim who LLD wants I end up dead and y’all elim in (Kyo/SS/EMMI/Towelie} tomorrow

[Critter]

I would love it. Even if it’s just me. Because more sorts.

All right, here goes:

Gamma Emerald
Towelie
MUSHSHAGANA
E. M. M. I.
Milk & Mocha
Venus Fly Trap
Dunnstral
Critter
StrangeMatter
ssbm_Kyouko

I disagree with the assessment of Math but why is he in your elimination pile if it appears you are recognizing this as his townplay?

Oh I misinterpreted. I never said that was his townplay? And besides I have you in my elimination pile and I townread you. It's because I recognize that my reads are often bad, and mafia is about teamwork which requires compromise.

You have the moral backbone of a chocolate eclair. Are you so spineless literally any elim is acceptable as long as it’s not you? Accepting you’re often wrong is one thing but this just reads super fucking slimy.

I think he is scum but please don’t attack people’s moral character

I agree with your point that is very slimy though.

[Critter]

I'm glad to wake up and see LLD hinting at my exact thoughts about Critter/VFT.

I don't have much else to say about things right now other than:
I like Critter less and less over time (incredible feat at this stage),
I don't like VFT much and they aren't doing any heroics I trust to pull them out of the fire,
I /really/ like ssbm (except that outing alts is poor form IMO),
and I think StrangeMatter, EMMI, bears, Dunn is where scum 3 is at right now.

Having second thoughts on bears. Both EMMI and StrangeMatter are blatantly ignoring that people want to make them the elimination soon. Dunn's dropped off a cliff in activity, I feel like.

If I am wrong in my pile you’re added but I don’t think you’re scum because reasons but this is ewwww

[Critter]

Lmao Kyo you can stop now
You’re not getting me elimmed if you’re scum
And if you’re town you should be listening to the TRs

Since people TR Kyo here
VOTE: Something Smart

Get on emmi please
S_s posting ia getting better

We're not killing EMMI today, sorry.

Last chance LLD.

Intent to E-1 but I think this goes horribly.

[Critter]

Lmao Kyo you can stop now
You’re not getting me elimmed if you’re scum
And if you’re town you should be listening to the TRs

Since people TR Kyo here
VOTE: Something Smart

Get on emmi please
S_s posting ia getting better

LLD’s reads are none of ours.

Either we are both wrong or she is.

[Critter]

Once again, this feels like a list that was procedurally generated with end goals in mind as opposed to being put together from reads.

i know that you're mostly objecting to the reads not matching your own but i think if you iso kyo it's pretty in line with the trajectory she's had

-b

Cognitive consistency doesn't mean the reads were developed naturally.

I personally find it hard to believe that S_S is bellow EMMI and Stranger... and Critter.

There's a lot there I find hard to swallow.

It’s because they’re scum LLD *sigh*

Like even if I pretend Kyo isn’t trying to fish 3 PRs and somehow town I don’t think Towelie is town then I swap in Mush for Kyo

[Critter]

I have given it some sleep thought and some more reading and I'm still convinced VFT is the way to go today.

nope

Dude, you want to kill EMMI, which is so much worse.

Why? They aren’t even here? Unless you have some meta you’re not sharing an inactive poster that watches us eat each other and does nothing is a great compromise elim.

[Critter]

Spoiler: Quack shit, buyers beware

HEY EV3RY !! IT'S ME!! EVERYBODY'S FAVORITE [[Mafiascummer2016]]
GAMME
GAMMA EMERALD!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

VOTE: Dunnstral
HE'S SCUM THIS GAME, []

!!

ANYWAY, IT'S TIME FOR A [[Questionnaire]], COURTESY OF YOUR FAVRITE [[Gameshow Host]], GAMMA EMERALD. DON'T WORRY, THESE QUESTIONS ARE DEFINITELY NOT BEING USED FOR TARGETED ADVERTISING LATER!

1. WHAT IS YOUR FAVORITE [[Movie/Color/Ice Cream]]?? YOU'RE WELCOME TO ANSWER [[all/any/none]] OF THIS PART!!
   
2. WHAT'S A ROLE YOU HAVEN'T BEEN IN A MAFIA GAME YET THAT YOU WOULD LIKE TO HAVE? OR , WHAT'S A ROLE YOU'VE PLAYED BEFORE BUT WANT TO TRY TO PLAY BETTER SOMETIME>
   
3. WHAT DO YOU FEEL LIKE IS YOUR GREATEST STRENTH/WEAKNESS AS [[Town/Scum]]??
   
4. OUT OF THIS PLAYERLIST, WHO WOULD YOU LIKE TO BE IN 3P LIMLO WITH AS EITHER ALIGNMENT?

AS A TOKEN OF GOOD FIATH, I AM GIVING MY OWN ANSWERS AS WELL!!

• MOVIE: [Zombieland]
  COLOR: BLUE
  ICE CREAM: MINT CHOCOLATE
  
• I WOULD HONESTLY LIKE TO BE A CULT LEADER ONCE,
  
• I THINK AS TOWN I'M PRETTY SOLID WITH NARROWING SCUM DOWN, WHILST AS SCUM I HAVE A BIT OF A KNACK FOR CAUSING CHAOS THAT HELPS MY TEAM REGARDLESS OF WHETHER I SURVIVE
  
• AS A NAME BRAND [Town] I’D PROBABLY TAKE [Dunnstral] AND [Wisdom], AS THEY SEEM THE MOST RELIABLE AND READABLE. AS AN OFF BRAND I’D LIKELY TAKE STRANGEMATTER AND TOOGELOO, AS THEY SEEM LIKE THE LEAST PROBABLE ONES TO BECOME TOWN BY PLAY OVER TIME.

Movie I dunno I don’t watch movies. Critical Role is my favorite long running stream though.
Color: If I have to pick Purple but rainbow is more my bag.
Ice Cream: Vanilla I know how bland.

Role I’d like to play/play better: Traitor

Strength as town: Unpredictability
Weakness as town: Unpredictability/stubbornness
Strength as scum: Manipulation
Weakness as scum: cockiness/boredom

Players I would like in elo:
Town me: Dunn and you. I lot of people are hard to read for me but I think an elo with you and Dunn would be pretty quick.
Scum me: Hard to decide. Generally I don’t play scum for a final three in elo and I feel if you’re picking players over the road map/narrative it’s not good scumming.

It is possible this is either a traitor soft or fishing for the traitor.

<-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Code Red

That is interesting, but I don't think limming dunn is worth it atm
would scum have fakeclaims, possibly, but I'm mostly just confused why Dunn's immediate thought was to claim flavor out of the gate

I had to rub my flavor in Towelie's face.

It is also possible that code red is actually a mountain dew flavor that the traitor received as their actual role pm. It kinda makes sense if you think about it. code red, like being a codename for a secret mafia infiltrating as the traitor. This could actually explain why Dunn claimed the way he did, but would point to a mainscum team of MathBlade and Towelie and I don't think that is likely.

Maybe if Dunn felt like he had done enough to crumb traitor by claiming Code Red in red text, he felt he could start laying false associatives, and rubbing his claim in towelie's face is just bait. This seems more likely, assuming Dunn is traitor, which again, is quack shit, buyers beware.

Pointing this out because I expect to die early, possibly tonight.

Just stop. I have a recent traitor game here since you bother with this.

The reason I want a traitor game is because to me that one doesn’t count because it was horrendously imbalanced to the point the mod apologized after.

[Critter]

ssbm_Kyouko replaces Toogeloo effective immediately.

Ah so ssbm_Kyouko replaced Toogeloo. I will keep this in mind and change my Toogeloo townread to ssbm_Kyouko townread.

So far I got Dunnstral, Lady Lambdadelta, and ssbm_Kyouko as town. That means I only have to sort 9 more players. While reading up 40 pages. Hahaha.

Welp, adding Gamma Emerald to the townlist circa page 26.

7 left. I'm almost there. Maybe.

Because this progression isn't scum, sorry. They're lurky as shit and doing nothing but this isn't scum.

Could be scum or town.

That progression is just scum admitting Gamma is never a miselim if they’re scum.
It’s NAI at best.

[Critter]

This game is pretty much lost from my POV

Dude. Dont be so dramatic. Winning a game isnt just about prs and night play.

You’re right. It’s not.

But reads are pretty much driven by someone who disagrees with me who I can’t explain the sky is blue to no matter how much I try
And night play is pretty much fucked atm

So what the fuck do you expect? Me to be happy that imho NOTHING is good here.

[Critter]

Could be scum or town.

That progression is just scum admitting Gamma is never a miselim if they’re scum.
It’s NAI at best.

see critter gets it
though thinking about it, tonally the way EMMI said it actually does not resemble what I did in isekai upick/what critter is saying it could be
so yeah I'll give this one to LLD, EMMI is probtown

?? I am confused?

You said I get it but you’re giving this to LLD?

I apparently don’t get it.

[Critter]

also whoever said that shit about traction on me is like probly a baddie

was it towelie

i cant remember

I’d like your opinion on VFT and me and slots in popular conversation please whichever head you are.

[Critter]

But I'm defintiely never killing any of EMMI/Stranger/Gamma today

Gamma yes
The other two wtf? Theyre so scummy

My thoughts too.

Like LLD’s would elim pool is like probably all my TRs minus gamma which is sad.

It’s like bad :/

[Critter]

I thought LLD had initially quoted the post where EMMI was talking about the cop claim stuff and being confused about it

Okay, opening up time

I've been shelving Wisdom for others to deal with because if town Wisdom is useful but

Wisdom's top 2 reads are "the two lurkiest players are scummy, everyone else town" which makes me not happy.

Then trust him now. Pretty sure that’s not his top two reads.
Put him under BoP.

If he his town we can push him hard tomorrow and assume I was in his warm pocket.

[Critter]

I won't lie and say having a townblock is inherently a bad thing, there are flaws to (way too many times scum has been a part of them in the past) that too, but is a little hmm moment that all three of Critter, VFT, and Wisdom have town reads on each other like that. I've seen scum do some...wild plays where they townread each other (It's happened off site) but I really doubt that all three are actually scum.

I feel like your only motivation here is to shade us and break town cohesion
If you have specific reasons for any of us not being town, then say so
What youre doing is just scummy

Oh yes, let me make up something that’s happened before and call it scum motivation of eliminating the town block. Like this just feels like the response of “You aren’t allowed to question if scum is in the block or not”, which when I have done that as town, scum has been in or tried to get into it. I think right now you could be scum that’s just pointing out something I know people have said that is scummy to reaffirm to the others that you are town, in the town block.

Mixter who is not in the TB of me Wisdom, VFT, says what?

[Critter]

I’d add Gamma to it but I don’t think he townreads the three of us and LLD pretty sure doesnt.

[Critter]

VFT I think is town
Wisdom I'm waffling on
you I'm suspicious of

I don't feel like I have any solid SRs atm so I am actually inclined to shift back into my "Sandra mode" I talked about earlier

I guarantee by D2 or d3 at the latest you won’t be. I am that sure.

[Critter]

Like Kyo is pretty much atrociously bad this game.

If you want to townread her for being that bad go ahead but then substitute Mush.

[Critter]

Like Kyo is pretty much atrociously bad this game.

If you want to townread her for being that bad go ahead but then substitute Mush.

nah Mush is town for me, and at a higher level than kyouko actually

One of those players has to be. I refuse to believe all the flavor hunting and BS this game is town on town crime.

[Critter]

I will be town by D3. Latest. If I am not then we will have scum dead to rights so who cares.

[Critter]

Like Kyo is pretty much atrociously bad this game.

If you want to townread her for being that bad go ahead but then substitute Mush.

nah Mush is town for me, and at a higher level than kyouko actually

One of those players has to be. I refuse to believe all the flavor hunting and BS this game is town on town crime.

Believe it
It wont be the first time nor the last

Lol not how belief works.
Like I don’t get LLDs reads at all or any common scumreads at all :/

Is there really no one in my PoE you’d elim LLD?

[Critter]

My list is this:

Towelie (hydra of borkjerfkin and notscience)
E. M. M. I.
Milk & Mocha (hydra of PookyTheMagicalBear and Noraa)
Something_Smart
StrangeMatter
ssbm_Kyouko

And it is because LLD can then pick a name from the majority and then if someone objects when on their would elim pile it’s a red flag.

Here it is and I only want Mush conditional Kyo town.

[Critter]

Accusing me of flavorhunting, Critter? Find one fucking instance. One. Go for it, I'm waiting for you. You find one I'll self vote and push my own wagon to the finish line and that's a promise.

You won't, because it didn't happen. VFT is it for today, but leaving you alive is criminal. Get in the scumpit, and don't try climbing out, lying about my goddamn play like that.

And BS. << I thought you had but this more than encompasses your push on me SoD.

[Critter]

Vote Count 1-16

Page tops are like C affine, you get addicted.

Venus Fly Trap (5): Lady Lamdadelta,Gamma Emerald, Towelie, Dunnstral, MUSHSHAGANA
E. M. M. I. (1): Wisdom
Critter (1): ssbm_Kyouko
Towelie (1): Venus Fly Trap
Something_Smart (1): Critter
Dunnstral (1): Milk & Mocha
Gamma Emerald (1): StrangeMatter


Not Voting (2): Something_Smart, E. M. M. I.

With 13 players alive, it takes 7 votes to eliminate a flavor.

Current Deadline: (expired on 2021-11-02 20:02:57)

Look at who is on the wagon LLD
Gamma townreads VFT

If I make it L-1 then 2 town readers are voting here.

VFT doesn’t flip scum.

It would be an elim of desperation.

[Critter]

VOTE: EMMI

Fine PoE whatever

I am so beyond sick of this day that this day needs a surgical intervention.

[Critter]

My push on you is because you beg for one thing, town cohesion, get in the way of the town cohering without you, then play it off like it's all about your play being self centered.

You want town to cohere, then get out of the damn way and let it happen. You want to be the center of attention, then I'll give you that by pushing your wagon. You don't get to have it both damn ways, and I can't stand playing around you because you keep trying to regardless and then have the audacity to call me fucking scum for trying to wake you up to the reality that your demands are at the bare minimum counterproductive and hypocritical and at worst actively allowing scum to position themselves in the game while everyone's too busy trying to work around your nettlesome, incessant demands.

Pick. One.

I am cohering with town. Scum get in the way and push me instead so I fuckin can’t.

They can’t do wisdom they’ll get eaten alive

You’re more than content to sit on VFT

[Critter]

And if asking for fucking reads is “incessant demands” that a tiny subset has done.

[Critter]

We're doing VFT today. I'm happy to flip it at this point. I was willing to take my time and listen but this Mathblade woe is me the town is so lost the game is so helpless boo hoo nonsense is just unbearable.

All my desire to try and listen and consider other options has flown out the window. I'm not 100% certain on VFT, but I'm 100% certain it's the kill I want today.

Then I will use the “time”

You quit responding to my posts
You just decided I suck and did the inversion trick
Rather than give me a fucking shot

[Critter]

We're doing VFT today. I'm happy to flip it at this point. I was willing to take my time and listen but this Mathblade woe is me the town is so lost the game is so helpless boo hoo nonsense is just unbearable.

All my desire to try and listen and consider other options has flown out the window. I'm not 100% certain on VFT, but I'm 100% certain it's the kill I want today.

Then I will use the “time”

You quit responding to my posts
You just decided I suck and did the inversion trick
Rather than give me a fucking shot

Kindly shut the fuck up.

I've done no inversion trick, I didn't even know you were you until someone pointed it out. My reads this game came before I knew it was you being insufferable.

I'm so done with dealig with your self absorbed bullshit. Not everything is about you, and not everything is lost if people don't fucking listen to you. It's not a fuckign personal insult.

GET OVER YOURSELF.

If VFT flips town, I'll probably be dead and guess what you'll get to have your fucking day in court trying to convince people what to do.

So kindly stop being so fucking self important and understand that I have been AS FUCKING PATIENT AS I CAN BE THIS GAME.

VOTE: VFT

I will be dead.

Goodbye.

Last post til flip

I am done giving a fuck.

[Critter]

E-1 on VFT

[Critter]

VOTE: Unvote

Since VFT won’t end the day no point in being there.

And you gave bring me to L-1 but whoever hammers is a scum claim

Then we elim in my PoE and call it a day.

Dare you MUSH. I dare you.

[Critter]

For all this talk about how scum I clearly am no one wants to take credit for it because it’s scum driven bullshit

Put up or shut up

[Critter]

VOTE: Something Smart

Since I am the obstinate asshole might as well be on my top not Kyo scumread. Kyo’s elim requires my town flip before that will get taken seriously

[Critter]

Wisdom, you've given NO ONE any reason to believe your reads are anything but pulled clean out of your ass. You could be rolling dice on the other side of the keyboard for all we know. How about, you know, showing the tiniest bit of reasoning for what you're trying to push instead of assuming that just repeating yourself and shading people who disagree will get results? How about instead of openly fucking mocking players who are trying to make arguments, come to conclusions and understand each other, you actually work with the other people in the goddamn game?

PEDIT: Critter...you make this game fucking miserable. I was starting to actually be able to focus my energy on the game instead of all the nonsense you create in your wake, but here you goddamn go again.

If LLD says we eliminate you, I will not shed a single tear, no matter what the flip is. You contribute nothing but noise and you contribute it by the boatload. You don't work with anyone and you don't let anyone work with anyone who isn't you, it's the same bullshit Wisdom gives except you're way louder about it. I /inned on this game to play a goddamn Mafia game, not have to suffer through this anti-town maximum-noise-ratio nonsense.

You’re just saying that because you don’t like the PoE dude

Before I was outed I was working with people

But now that I am outed I am not working with people

You’re just spinning the narrative Kyo fucking gave you by outing.

I have a PoE to LLD and asked her to meet me half way in like half the game.

But quite frankly it’s just the Math doesn’t work with people despite trying to find where the commonalities and being told I am not working with people

I explain why VFT is town and then just get “I don’t get it” an easy cop out

Fuck that back to work

[Critter]

I am sorry that should be chica. And I don’t believe you.

[Critter]

noraa is adoorbs

who could be scared of them?

Excuse me I must correct this.

Pooky and Noora are both adorbs.

That is all. Critical Role night

[Critter]

Prod dodge

Reads still the same

[Critter]

paraphrase from what i typed to noddy earlier:

pooky's right in that we're generally not elimmable so any pressure on us from her is more likely to be legitimate due to that goal being harder to reach
(although i think pressure for pressure's sake is useful IF your aim is to shake up the gamestate - pooky would have to also be scum for this to be a goal that was desirable for them at the time)
i think this talked me into them probably just being the same alignment, no matter what that alignment is

-b

Except this like isn’t true though?
Assume you’re town for this argument.
Scum would only go for someone easy if they were unhappy with the gamestate.
If they’re happy with it then they can push whoever and set up miselims down the line.

[Critter]

I don’t think scum are unhappy with the gamestate so the rest of that doesn’t follow.

[Critter]

I don’t think scum are unhappy with the gamestate so the rest of that doesn’t follow.

last time i checked i don't make arguments based on your reads

I really, really wish you could lay off trying to filter everyone else's opinions through your perception of the gamestate.

It makes it fucking impossible to talk to you.

-b

That’s not based on my reads.
There’s a lack of communication.
The gamestate is not healthy.
If you don’t base your reads based on how the game is there isn’t really another way to see it.

If I am looking at a dice and I see a 6 I can’t see not a 6 so you have to explain it.

I can’t magically hop into your shoes and see a 1 or 5.

So I say hey this 6 is reality. And explain it as such. I know that’s a thing.
If you think that 6 is not a reality Eg scum love this gamestate explain why
Then my reads change accordingly

Asking me just to “not think something” is not reasonable

[Critter]

Scum don’t love this gamestate*

[Critter]

Asking me not to filter reads based on attempting to make reads is really really bad

What am I supposed to do? Pull from rng?

[Critter]

I don’t think scum are unhappy with the gamestate so the rest of that doesn’t follow.

last time i checked i don't make arguments based on your reads

I really, really wish you could lay off trying to filter everyone else's opinions through your perception of the gamestate.

It makes it fucking impossible to talk to you.

-b

That’s not based on my reads.
There’s a lack of communication.
The gamestate is not healthy.
If you don’t base your reads based on how the game is there isn’t really another way to see it.

If I am looking at a dice and I see a 6 I can’t see not a 6 so you have to explain it.

I can’t magically hop into your shoes and see a 1 or 5.

So I say hey this 6 is reality. And explain it as such. I know that’s a thing.
If you think that 6 is not a reality Eg scum love this gamestate explain why
Then my reads change accordingly

Asking me just to “not think something” is not reasonable

this fuckig dude asks everyo e else to do th shit he should be doing like read your on fuckin posts take our own advice

I have been this entire game?

The post Towelie said “Hey I don’t think scum do X”

So I met Towelie where they are
Assumed the facts best suited to their position
And ended up with a contradiction and asked them to explain?

[Critter]

1965 feels like a lot of words to communicate something that really shouldn't take that many.

Sorry maybe I will just be an NT. That’s a switch I can turn off and on.

[Critter]

1965 feels like a lot of words to communicate something that really shouldn't take that many.

Sorry maybe I will just be an NT. That’s a switch I can turn off and on.

This is sarcasm btw

[Critter]

I think the gamestate is fine? People are talking and sharing opinions. I've seen worse, overall.

I think whether or not scum "love" the gamestate probably depends on whether or not VFT is scum or how many of the lurkfuck likely easy later elim slots (emmi, sm) are actually scum, so I'm not really making any assertion on the point with whatever i've posted.

But saying "I don't think VFT is scum therefore scum love the gamestate therefore VFT is town" is not a conversation i'm even going to entertain

-b

I don’t think it’s fine at all.
I don’t see this “sharing of opinions” you’re talking about
LLD 2-3 days ago had to do “Hey I am picking an elim” just to get something going at all.

[Critter]

The game state sucks and is toxic as hell when you have people telling others to not fucking post when all I do is share opinions

[Critter]

I think the gamestate is fine? People are talking and sharing opinions. I've seen worse, overall.

I think whether or not scum "love" the gamestate probably depends on whether or not VFT is scum or how many of the lurkfuck likely easy later elim slots (emmi, sm) are actually scum, so I'm not really making any assertion on the point with whatever i've posted.

But saying "I don't think VFT is scum therefore scum love the gamestate therefore VFT is town" is not a conversation i'm even going to entertain

-b

Gamestate isn’t a reads dependent thing. The gamestate can be toxic while the elim is on town or scum.

A gamestate is healthy when there is communication and a town block

[Critter]

I don’t think scum are unhappy with the gamestate so the rest of that doesn’t follow.

Like if you don't see how this utterly just marginalizes any possible legitimacy of my point of view, even if you think it's wrong

then we probably aren't going to be able to talk to each other

-b

I don’t see how this marginalizes your point of view.

You said scum don’t push you as you’re not elimmable.

I think that scum don’t push players that are not elimmable without some kind of benefit and they’d need a gamestate in which they can afford to do so?

I don’t see how interacting with your point with an alternate idea marginalizes you?

[Critter]

The game state sucks and is toxic as hell when you have people telling others to not fucking post when all I do is share opinions

The problem is not that you're sharing your opinions, it's that you're representing your opinions as though they're immutable facts. Please try not to do that, and I imagine things will improve.

But that’s where I am starting from.

I start from I am town.
The gamestate is a piece of shit.

This is true from my POV.
I can’t like just go “whelp my scumread says this is fine” and just change it?

[Critter]

To me it seems fairly evident that some people would be comfortable with the gamestate as scum and others would be uncomfortable, and therefore we can't really know whether they are happy with it without having a single flip.

Ugh I need a new word

Instead of gamestate how about healthy conversations.

Does that explain better?

[Critter]

Because I don’t see how anyone can view the past few days as healthy conversations.

[Critter]

I'll turn the snark down since I think you're at least attempting to engage me in good faith now:

I think that scum don’t push players that are not elimmable without some kind of benefit and they’d need a gamestate in which they can afford to do so?

I don't really understand your assertion here but will try to clarify mine: it was early-ish D1 and I don't think there was an obvious "scum are ahead/behind" but I do think that M&M was looking like a default safe spot for people to land, so a hypothesis of mine was that getting into a fight with me would be a good way to move the gamestate away from that from the time being, but only if m&m is scum with them. That was half of my argument why I think the two might be the same alignment (the other half that pooky pulling me back from the brink is not something scum M&M does to scum VFT)

-b

In early D1 I agree M&M is a safe place to land.
A fight with you if it drew attention away would drive attention away.
However I don’t think the rest of the point that “only if M&M is scum with them” is correct.

Assuming that the pull is from scum and you town and M&M unknown alignment
Scum could be setting you up for a miselim future days.
Scum could be setting up credit for if M&M is town
Or Scum accept the fact that M&M is going down and want to make noise simply to “look Townie”

Assuming that the pull is from town and you town and M&M unknown alignment
Then the pull believes your are scum more than M&M. That doesn’t imply M&M a certain alignment

[Critter]

This list isn’t all inclusive at all either but I don’t see the connection you’re making

[Critter]

I definitely see what you mean with that, but I'm not sure why the lack of healthy conversation would make scum more prone to pushing someone they can't execute. If anything, I feel like it might go the other way since people are probably going to be more accusatory and less charitable if the conversation isn't healthy.

When I am scum, if town is at each other’s throats I don’t go out of my way to fix it or if I do I fix it in a proscum way. It’s a lot easier to add to the chaos with another push or mimic town than it is to heal things.

[Critter]

I can’t like just go “whelp my scumread says this is fine” and just change it?

I think you let confbias dictate a lot of the opinions you emit rather than consider that they're maybe wrong, sometimes to an extreme (and obnoxious, FMPOV) degree.

-b

I think sometimes, yes I do.
I just think a lot more times it’s people not listening or writing me off rather than this.
It creates a vicious cycle of
“I don’t get it it’s math just say they’re weird”
And then instead of what you don’t understand or not weird
I have to try to explain everything all over again
Then “nope don’t get it”
Then I try again and look like a stubborn asshole when there’s nothing else I can do

[Critter]

Assuming that the pull is from scum and you town and M&M unknown alignment
Scum could be setting you up for a miselim future days.
Scum could be setting up credit for if M&M is town
Or Scum accept the fact that M&M is going down and want to make noise simply to “look Townie”

These are all possibilities, yes. That assertion is "something I think is more likely than not" based on the reasons I gave, not something I'm treating as airtight. This is probably true for most things I say in any game.

Assuming that the pull is from town and you town and M&M unknown alignment
Then the pull believes your are scum more than M&M. That doesn’t imply M&M a certain alignment

Not the point I was making -- M&M going out of way to save skitter just doesn't jibe w/ me at that second as something that scum-M&M would do to town-VFT right then.

-b

I don’t view it as more likely.
I find that if something is easy and scum don’t take it there’s a reason why.
Especially when it’s Pooky/Noora.

I find that scum probably weren’t pushing out of a fear Pooky would smell BS.

[Critter]

I just think a lot more times it’s people not listening or writing me off rather than this.

I would perhaps reflect on how you've treated my slot this game before you throw that one at me, but I absolutely believe that we're not seeing eye to eye right now rather than you doing anything nefarious

-b

That’s also why my vote isn’t on you.
It’s not on Kyo much as I wish people would elim her
It’s on Something Smart.

I do think Notty is bad cop but my PoE has too many people

[Critter]

I don’t view it as more likely.

I find that if something is easy and scum don’t take it there’s a reason why.

Especially when it’s Pooky/Noora.

I'm kind of losing the thread w/ the bolded - not sure what you're saying.

I'll try to be around later but probably should get going

-b

M&M is claimed jester cop. Almost everything possible trying to get eliminated. The arguments for Pooky scum are incredibly easy and Gamma summed them up well.

Scum if M&M town could go “yep uh huh sure” and hop on
Similarly if M&M scum things looked pretty bad so bussing would have happened

My big point is why isn’t Pooky dead unless scum weren’t on Pooky

[Critter]

We're doing VFT today. At this point the positioning and posturing around the wagon will tell us more than anything else, and it has a decent shot of hitting scum.

I'm sorry if I'm wrong, and I have an okay chance of being wrong, but I'm better than random to be right here, IMO, and it tells us a lot either way.

No more hesitation. VFT today please folks.

Except imho it has been? The only people on it I haven’t seen argue for VFT and are only on it because you are. I think it is pretty much dead.

[Critter]

its okay lld, one day you'll learn to catch scum d1 and you wont need useless info lims

Why are you such a prick, anyway? You know I've caught scum day 1 before, just like I know you've lost games of mafia before (including to me, as scum!)

You're not perfect, I'm not perfect. I'm doing my diligence to increase town's win % here.

While he’s being a jackass (please stop Wisdom) I kind of get his point here. Why is VFT scum? I get you believe VFT is scum but I like am not there at all.

[Critter]

I agree with like, 3 out of 4 on that list of obvious town. Everyone but Venus.

But sure, let's say I write Venus off at this point.

I think EMMI and Strange are townier than say, Dunn or Mocha. By MILES.

And I don't agree that Venus is that townie.

Like I don't think our reads lists are that far off, it's mostly just that your top suspects EMMI and Strange are in my town pool and my top scum suspect Venus is in your top town pool.

So I can either take my one day alive and in control to take a shot at the person in that pool (Venus) or I can compromise kill someone like Dunnstral with you.

I don't know that compromising gets me anywhere. You will have time to kill EMMI. I have no doubt that if Venus flips town, Strange will die (I think Strange over EMMI first, but you do you).

But I only get one shot.

I disagree with Towelie obvTown here.
I think Mocha is townier than EMMI and Strange. I don’t see scum bears intentionally doing a jester bit and intentionally poking a fight with Gamma. In contrast, EMMI is a null read at best. These past few pages have had almost nothing posted and I get she’s VLA for 2 days now but if I am being generous the last time she posted anything close to content was Wednesday, and even then it wasn’t some shiny beacon of content. It’s something very clear.
Dunn on the other hand I do waffle on. There’s reasons I TR him and reasons I SR him.
Strange is a null entity. I do not remember anything about them.

So my list of those players is
Bears
Dunn/Strange
EMMI

I don’t see how you’re getting Strange or EMMI die at all?

Can you please talk about why you think they’d be a nightkill?

[Critter]

But I only get one shot.

Its like youve locked yourself in this mindset where youre treating this like a vig shot

Its not

Its a lim

And we should keep town cohesion and lim scum

When you roll vig you can break cohesion and shoot whatever moonlogic reada you have (hopefully without me in the game)

Now's not the time

This. I feel this so hard. Like IC is a discussion leader. Not a takeover the day, dayvig. Like you want me to talk about VFT sure let’s do that.

[Critter]

viewtopic.php?f=84&t=73980&user_select%5B%5D=29653

I think this meta here is almost a dead ringer for what she is posting here. I don’t see VFT scum at all.

Quite honestly if VFT is somehow scum despite all the imho towntelling she’s been doing it almost certainly would need to be with Wisdom or another top townread of mine. I think with how much resistance there is between the two of you there’s no way we have “half” the reads right.

[Critter]

And by ok i mean not scummy @venus
Its not ok that you havent voted emmi yet if you want a lim to happen

I will vote whoever is in my PoE when a wagon happens.
Far as I am concerned I am Not Mafia’ing this shit to get an elim done.

[Critter]

I think it's pretty clear what happened; he misinterpreted this section:

I have no doubt that if Venus flips town, Strange will die (I think Strange over EMMI first, but you do you).

Without context that's a very easy misreading to make.

The context is... in the post that you took that from though. Like, the context is clearly (once I am dead, people will kill EMMI/Strange, Strange first if VFT is town please).

So I don't get how... well, okay, maybe I do get how he got there. He also thought he was dying tonight for some reason.

I do. I was trying to parse your posts for what you’re saying.

[Critter]

I think it's pretty clear what happened; he misinterpreted this section:

I have no doubt that if Venus flips town, Strange will die (I think Strange over EMMI first, but you do you).

Without context that's a very easy misreading to make.

?? This is indeed what I thought.

[Critter]

I am doing my homework and didn’t see how the prior sections reached that conclusion

[Critter]

We are ND in different ways LLD.
Mine I am extremely literal.

[Critter]

If I have to have Kyo Town
Mush + SS makes sense.

[Critter]

True
LLD posted a very definite “these are my stances for if I die” post, I don’t think the mindset S_S is displaying makes full sense in light of that

Join me on SS? Wisdom and Gamma?

[Critter]

Mush is town.

Gamma we are doing VFT, please don't sway on me.

There is literally no motion at all anywhere
Vanity voters need to FUCKING CHECK THEMSELVES!

I have checked myself.
I townread VFT and will hammer so we have an elim
EMMI and SS are both wagons I would do that are compromise.

So just waiting on people to respond.

Mush I waffle on town but the more he resists and then literally posts he’s sheeping LLD and then tries to say now it’s a genuine read is disgusting.

Skitter is one of the best scum on site. So yeah I don’t think this is their scum game at all.

[Critter]

She * damn it sorry

[Critter]

Not lying. That’s how I see your posts. Will just not talk to you anymore since calling you scum ruins your fun.

[Critter]

Another FUCKING lie.

Scumreading me is fine, you aren't even the only one to do so, stop talking shit.

When you claim I am making shit up about my read on VFT when I could literally go into my ISO and pull the post I made when I went from "I don't like this but LLD said so" to "oh never mind this is scum"? That's a lie.

Critter, you know the difference between saying things as you see them and telling a lie? When you say things as you see them, you include room to be fucking wrong -- because you aren't omniscient and omnipresent. You don't know what I think in my fucking head. I certainly never thought "oh a scumread is unfun" -- saying I did is a lie, and your wording would make it a lie even if I did think that.

You wanna talk about me, you wanna scumread me even, what the fuck ever. But as soon as you start confidently saying I did things that I did not do or stating ANYTHING about my internal thoughts like you know a single goddamn thing that goes on in my head, you are crossing a line and you don't get to expect anything but anger.

I think it’s best we don’t speak right now.

I get reads by trying to figure out why someone posts something and that involves trying to figure out what they are thinking.

I do not know how to acknowledge your request in a way that will not make you angry.

I do not think I lied and I am sorry that my posting is hurting you if you’re town.

I like to get into scum’s head and play around with it as part of hunting them.

I don’t see original thought from your slot is my opinion. You screaming at me that it is doesn’t change anything for me except it makes you a scary person I don’t want to interact with.

If you’re town this conversation is entirely unproductive. Give me time to get there.

[Critter]

I highly doubt Skitter thinks she can remove me on D1 unless it's some random lol-wagon that runs off the rails.

tbf this is not something scum-me tries to do, no

~ skitteR

(above was skitter too, sorry, forgot to sign)

Maybe four years old but it’s the most representative game I have of you. So I am rolling with it.

[Critter]

Why is SS better to you?

[Critter]

Still possible guys
Just need Gamma MM Critter and a hammer

I'll hammer either to ensure an elim. Got halloween stuff haven't read.
Will catch up if I can.

[Critter]

Vote Count 1-20

We get to find out what flavor VooDew is today... yay?

Venus Fly Trap (5): Lady Lamdadelta, Gamma Emerald, Dunnstral, MUSHSHAGANA, Something_Smart

E. M. M. I. (3): Wisdom, ssbm_Kyouko, Venus Fly Trap
Dunnstral (1): Milk & Mocha
Wisdom (1): StrangeMatter
Something_Smart (1): Critter


Not Voting (2): E. M. M. I., Towelie

With 13 players alive, it takes 7 votes to eliminate a flavor.

Current Deadline: (expired on 2021-11-02 20:02:57)

E. M. M. I. is currently V/LA

M&M, StrangeMatter, EMMI and Towelie need to vote for VFT or EMMI.

Willing to hammer either.

If anyone votes for VFT it’s l-1.

[Critter]

Intent

[Critter]

And happy birthday Mush

[Critter]

Vote Count 1-20

We get to find out what flavor VooDew is today... yay?

Venus Fly Trap (5): Lady Lamdadelta, Gamma Emerald, Dunnstral, MUSHSHAGANA, Something_Smart

E. M. M. I. (3): Wisdom, ssbm_Kyouko, Venus Fly Trap
Dunnstral (1): Milk & Mocha
Wisdom (1): StrangeMatter
Something_Smart (1): Critter


Not Voting (2): E. M. M. I., Towelie

With 13 players alive, it takes 7 votes to eliminate a flavor.

Current Deadline: (expired on 2021-11-02 20:02:57)

E. M. M. I. is currently V/LA

M&M, StrangeMatter, EMMI and Towelie need to vote for VFT or EMMI.

Willing to hammer either.

If anyone votes for VFT it’s l-1.

You already were wagoning someone else Kyo and Wisdom? What makes S_S better than Emmi?

You’re destroying the counter wagon to VFT while saying VFT is town?

I kinda feel my Wisdom TR is bad and Kyo Wisdom VFT and maybe I am the dummy here

[Critter]

kyouko left so I followed

Instead of calling her out?

That vote swap from her is pretty bad.

It’s a matter of if it is I want to stop VFT elim bad or performative I am trying bad.

[Critter]

Intent

If there is no claim by the time I get off work I am hammering.

[Critter]

we're vt

just gonna point out that basically nobody is presently scumreading us other than lld + possibly mush, and that *this* is the wagon that took off out of all the ones that lld has wanted, and that the game has basically stagnated since that happened

she claimed already.

maybe give her sometime after work for final reads/thoughts and hammer after that?

Then will hammer after work. Should be later than 5 PM CST.

[Critter]

PST*

I can’t type

[Critter]

kyouko left so I followed

Instead of calling her out?

That vote swap from her is pretty bad.

It’s a matter of if it is I want to stop VFT elim bad or performative I am trying bad.

What? She was voting emmi, not vft
Its not bad

It’s bad because she was on EMMI.

She doesn’t want VFT supposedly yet destroyed any semblance of a counter wagon to VFT.

[Critter]

Someone hammer VFT please.

VFT, sorry if I'm not engaging with you.

I will.
I just want to give time for last reads since I think they are town.

After work if they haven’t posted I will hammer.

[Critter]

Vote Count 1-20

We get to find out what flavor VooDew is today... yay?

Fruit Candy Chews

Please don’t do this on mafia black

[Critter]

Just curious; how popular is/was Mountain Dew DEW*S*A?

It was one of the last ones I tried before I started calorie counting and i really liked it. It was like sparkling berry, reminded me a little of whiteout which I guess makes sense because it was a mixture of whiteout code red and voltage

If someone quick hammers while I am working remember this post

[Critter]

Because scum either know who the doc is or maybe there is a jailkeeper or roleblocker.
The only thing scum claiming PR would do if VFT is scum is give the game away that VFT is scum and give a conf town and who should be listened to.

I think whoever is the protective role will be outed in due time and a lot of d1 will start to make sense but I think the VT claim is NAI.

[Critter]

The setup obv has a doc

Where did this come from? Did every game in 2013 have a doc?

LLD is macho. This means a protective role of some kind likely exists.

[Critter]

That makes no sense. Scum can't know who the doc is. If vft is getting lim'd anyway, they might out the doc at least.

Vft is just town and its painfully obvious

I believe I know who a protective is but it’s odd you went directly to doc.

Scum who knows too much?

[Critter]

Not necessarily; it could just be so that scum know they can safely kill her. Unless that kind of thing didn't exist back then.

Macho has existed since 2013.

It means she can’t be saved from a kill. (Loosely)
Since we’re in a low complex game that works.

[Critter]

I know what it means. I'm asking if red herring-ish roles (really closer to a "nudge" that conveys information, i.e. the macho doesn't literally matter but it means scum don't have to WIFOM themselves out of shooting the IC) were a thing.

I was on hiatus during that year/part of it as I had just made an account that year. I would go with most likely not as at that time Titus was pushing me to join the site. So recruitment drive would lean more straightforward roles.

[Critter]

Scum-Venus doesnt claim a pr to draw ccs because..?

I mean obviously i would claim pr here as scum to draw the cc ...

I'm not getting flipped because i'm scum, or even because a majority of people in this pl think i'm scum

I'm getting flipped because lld got it in her brain that i'm scum and its a ridiculously easy position for scum to sheep (and just noting, again, that *this* is the wagon that's getting sheeped, and not dunn or bears)

Most of the people voting me dont even think i'm scum

Gamma Emerald
Towelie (hydra of borkjerfkin and notscience)
MUSHSHAGANA
E. M. M. I.
Milk & Mocha (hydra of PookyTheMagicalBear and Noraa)
Venus Fly Trap (hydra of skitter30 and lilith2013)
Dunnstral
Wisdom
Lady Lambdadelta
Something_Smart
Critter
StrangeMatter
ssbm_Kyouko Toogeloo

Town: lld, Wisdom, critter
Townlean: towelie, ssbm
Idk/in the middle: gamma, dunn
Scumlean: mm, ss, strangematter, mush
Ss: emmi

Largely the same as before, except towelie has gone up, and mush and dunn have gone down

After i flip i'd start by looking at the votes on wagon, in particular mush and dunn's

These are my reads, and where i think u ought to look tom

I'll be around more after work, if i'm not flipped yet

Any other last thoughts?

[Critter]

Not necessarily; it could just be so that scum know they can safely kill her. Unless that kind of thing didn't exist back then.

Even if thats the case it doesnt harm vft to claim doc

It does if the protective is a highly scumread player and they confirm a town player and VFT dies anyway.

[Critter]

I think VFT is town don’t misunderstand but this argument is bad.

[Critter]

dude theyd know who the protective is and theyd just kill them
Think before you post

Already said that and in that case scum don’t try to PR fish.

[Critter]

Even if thats the case it doesnt harm vft to claim doc

I mean, except that they don't get the benefit of this argument you're currently making.

Yep that.

Giving VFT 1 hour more or less or anyone before hammer

[Critter]

Even if thats the case it doesnt harm vft to claim doc

I mean, except that they don't get the benefit of this argument you're currently making.

Yep that.

Giving VFT 1 hour more or less or anyone before hammer

[Critter]

This is the first argument for VFT scum that I actually agree with.

Just giving people a chance to get last thoughts in

[Critter]

Even if thats the case it doesnt harm vft to claim doc

I mean, except that they don't get the benefit of this argument you're currently making.

Yep that.

Giving VFT 1 hour more or less or anyone before hammer

Just curious; how popular is/was Mountain Dew DEW*S*A?

It was one of the last ones I tried before I started calorie counting and i really liked it. It was like sparkling berry, reminded me a little of whiteout which I guess makes sense because it was a mixture of whiteout code red and voltage

Remember this if day ends when I am afk

VOTE: VFT

[Critter]

I can vibe a Wisdom vote.

VOTE: Wisdom

Shocked not dead tbh

[Critter]

Time to figure out who Smart hid behind because it’s doubtful he picked LLD

[Critter]

So what do you think this indicates for Critter then? I did assume you were TRing him because of this post, because if that's what I thought was happening, I would TR him for it:

Huh, that's interesting. To me it seems clearly like something that can happen to town or scum. My main point with the post was just that hiding behind the alt was ineffective and it was responsible for some of his problems this game.

Ah so you are arguing me. Alas I can assure you that’s not possible as I am provable town so…

[Critter]

He clearly Targeted Wisdom stop being dumb.

I am voting Wisdom.
I was countering Dunn’s suggestion.

[Critter]

we came into today wanting to vote m&m for basically not only leading me on a wild goose chase w/ VFT but also i'm pretty convinced pooky knew what answer he wanted to give me about VFT's alignment before looking at any of what we talked about

this takes precedence though

-b

What if I said I thought Dunn/Wisdom/Kyo/M&M contained the remaining scum.

Also don’t hammer we need Gamma online

[Critter]

VOTE: Unvote

Preventing hammer

[Critter]

Don't think we were ever at E-1 here due to evens but i like the sentiment regardless

-b

I just really want to make sure we hear from Gamma since any difference check can likely lead to locktown since I doubt scum have two goons.

[Critter]

I got no result

Who did you attempt to check?

[Critter]

Oh wow I'm real glad everyone agrees Wisdom is the play here. Was already inclined from the VFT flip but the N1 hider death cemented it.

I won't vote for the same reason Critter unvoted, but I'll call intent (if need be).

Not much to say today, I think.

I think there is. I think we can hunt for potential partners.

[Critter]

I got no result

Who did you attempt to check?

M&M and Dunnstral
ALSO, M&M’s claim looks even worse post-S_S flip

How sure are you Wisdom is scum? Scale of 1 to 100?

[Critter]

Oh wow I'm real glad everyone agrees Wisdom is the play here. Was already inclined from the VFT flip but the N1 hider death cemented it.

I won't vote for the same reason Critter unvoted, but I'll call intent (if need be).

Not much to say today, I think.

I think there is. I think we can hunt for potential partners.

Oh, I was talking about for ME to say. I have a suspicion on the final piece of the puzzle, personally and I want to watch how things play out a bit, but I don't think I have anything to add to the current proceedings. So today (as in realtime) nothing much for me to say.

Hmmm would love to know what your eyes would divine from this day.

I think this wagon happened too fast to be all town.

[Critter]

I got no result

Who did you attempt to check?

M&M and Dunnstral
ALSO, M&M’s claim looks even worse post-S_S flip

How sure are you Wisdom is scum? Scale of 1 to 100?

wut
Talk about a non-sequitur!

I know please answer the question.

[Critter]

But barring any other leads from S_S’s posting I’d say pretty sure
But any number would be arbitrary rn

Well if Wisdom >75% scum then i think something should happen.

So I need someone who I townread to answer the question.

[Critter]

That works too.

I am the doctor. It’s why I wanted to end day early so Gamma could get his check off.

If I am right scum are looking for certain flavors and Dunn is also a PR so I didn’t want to elim him either.

So now scum can shoot me and Gamma is either RB’d again or gets another check off thus freeing up other PRs like Dunn and X to act.

[Critter]

Just curious; how popular is/was Mountain Dew DEW*S*A?

It was one of the last ones I tried before I started calorie counting and i really liked it. It was like sparkling berry, reminded me a little of whiteout which I guess makes sense because it was a mixture of whiteout code red and voltage

This post had my flavor (whiteout) and Dunn’s flavor Code Red.

So I am guessing scum wanted us to talk flavor to find the PRs.

[Critter]

But I couldn’t exactly say “Hey list of PRs in that post”

But if I flipped I figured y’all might make the connection.

[Critter]

Just curious; how popular is/was Mountain Dew DEW*S*A?

It was one of the last ones I tried before I started calorie counting and i really liked it. It was like sparkling berry, reminded me a little of whiteout which I guess makes sense because it was a mixture of whiteout code red and voltage

This post had my flavor (whiteout) and Dunn’s flavor Code Red.

So I am guessing scum wanted us to talk flavor to find the PRs.

Are you still thinking kyouko can be scum here?

Possibly yes. It could be one hell of a coincidence.

The main issue is I don’t know if scum figured out my gate.

If Wisdom is scum no multitasking in the rules so we should be good.

If he’s town things get interesting.

[Critter]

interesting theory and i see why it led to a scumread on ssbm for mentioning those in particular but i think if scum knew that certain flavors would be PRs it probably would have been part of the public setup

dunn might be able to yay/nay this (later)

we're game fuel (Specifically the OG citrus cherry)

For the Horde.

and master chief.

-b

Informed is a normal modifier for scum. This is not always the case. Wisdom hung onto a goon rather tight assuming he is scum and him jumping immediately to doc kinda seals it for me.

And Dunn might be but I didn’t want to risk this until likely certain so as to put scum into a dilemma.

[Critter]

So I am guessing scum are informed of something it’s a matter of which somethings.

[Critter]

It could be just heightened paranoia and Kyo is town
However something I shouldn’t say makes me think scum are informed of the setup and the actions taken tonight should seal it.

[Critter]

there's not a universe where scum-me thinks it's a good idea to do anything but slap a townread on u and call it a day

then why in the living hell did you object when i put an early townread on you for precisely NOT doing that??????

????????

????

-b

i mean i'd draw it out a bit and make it look good, like i'd be indecisive for a bit but ultimatley settle on a townread and then just stick with it for the rest of teh game
idk why u think i'd be drawing this out or bickering with u about this this whole time tho

Specifically this post here pretty much here. No I can’t explain why use your thinking caps.

[Critter]

If Wisdom is scum no multitasking in the rules so we should be good.

I don't understand what you are referring to. Do we know that Wisdom used another night action?

If wisdom is scum, if the last scum is a roleblocker then they can’t roleblock and kill unless multitasking is assigned to their role explicitly

[Critter]

So they could roleblock me and shoot gamma only if they have two scum.

Since I am the protective I know scum roleblocked/jailkept Gamma or one of you/M&M is Ascetic.

[Critter]

Well that’s normal rules but since it’s not mentioned in the OP scum can multitask it’s a safe assumption

[Critter]

OK I see what you are saying

So, PR or no?

[Critter]

OK I see what you are saying

So, PR or no?

I don't think it is beneficial to claim that today, do you disagree?

I don’t want your PR if you are one. Just a yes or no and just you.
(This is all assuming Wisdom is scum)
Because if you are a PR I want Gamma to check in M&M/Kyo for parity.
Because one of them has to be town or both are.

Scum have to claim PR here so it’s about optimizing the check.

Because I likely die tonight so this tonight is the only check Gamma has

[Critter]

I think mass claim of PR or not might be the way to go the more o think about it

Because if scum keep shooting PRs they narrow the PoE and if they fake claim VT they risk a 1v1 with Gamma

[Critter]

I don't understand why I have to claim to check in M&M/Kyo?

You don’t.

Gamma checks M&M and Kyo with the parity cop if you’re a PR

[Critter]

It’s about getting Gamma the best check possible.

[Critter]

If you’re a VT then my theory about Kyo is likely wrong and check should be in you and M&M

[Critter]

yeah i see where your head is at, i'm honestly not inclined to fret upon it at this point in time and instead have scum spin the wheel-of-suboptimal-kills

also assuming i am right about SS crumb that was fucking *chef kiss* in that it seemed like ???? at the time but is hiding in plain sight with context

-b

Yeah I was trying to have my cake and eat it too and form a PoE to fix my reads for the last scum (assuming Wisdom scum) and get Gamma his checks off and clear most of the VT claims and if there happens to be an invest like tracker or watcher they can put their eyeballs on a sus VT and see if they move or whatever or on a PR and check them.

[Critter]

So the theory was that Kyo was informed scum because they mentioned my flavor and you thought my flavor was a pr, right? Does this debunk it?

Yeah. It does. I will have to reread Kyo but she really has to stop the word hunting nonsense. Especially with people on the spectrum. It’s just bad.

[Critter]

Dunn can now be the lynch pin for the check if Gamma wants it.

I gotta go but if your town Kyo c’mon.

[Critter]

You leave kyo alone, you spent all of day one trying to kill her when she was transparently town

Except she wasn’t lol.

And 314 more times because it usually does.

[Critter]

Tell you what- I’ll dunk on you postgame for it, I have scum to kill

Last two are wisdom and pooky.

Fair and prolly.

[Critter]

Plus I'd never kill LLD when there are PRs around but that's more arguable

OK.

We can do different things tomorrow

I can get behind this.

It's quite unfortunate that two people I respect are disagreeing so heavily, but I'm going to have to favor the one who's probably going to be dead tomorrow.

Also, I think I agree with the reads here-- I can follow the town reasoning for SM, but Emmi not so much. But of course it's entirely possible LLD sees something I don't.

This is the crumb in my opinion. It's closer to the end of the day and the context refers to the next day.

The one about hiding behind the alt does not look as likely because for one it's way earlier in the day and then he's quoting Kyouko and talking about Critter so it's not that clear.

VOTE: Dunn

I could go for Dunn Kyo if wrong on Wisdom
But Kyo is only scum if Dunn is.

Dunn scum opens with what is clearly a fake crumb and tries to get me quick elimmed
Kyo scum then keeps pushing me

I also don’t like how she just stopped posting.
I think they could have realized plan kaput

[Critter]

I ctrl + f'd "hid" and that was the only post that showed up

Search function says no match found for his
And doing ctrl +f on this many pages takes time

[Critter]

Hid *

[Critter]

ctrl + f on the iso

This does check out. You still ping me though

[Critter]

Yeah it’s 100% not critter

I do think it’s in (Dunn, Wisdom) 100% of the time here.

I still think last scum is that bad bad bear.

I've been pushing bears all game pretty much. You should vote for Wisdom if you believe this. Or we can ignore the hider stuff and just get bears today, I'd do that.

Absolutely not we are sorting this first

-b

How about a claim from M&M considering they were weird about their claim earlier and there is no need to try to bait a kill anymore?

I think mass PR vs not PR claim would be good.

[Critter]

I still kinda think Dunn -> Kyo the more Kyo defends Dunn like that. It’s terrible