Mini 1316 - Last Will Mafia IV (Over)

[Voidedmafia]

Yo. Just here until Vincent's back, so just put up with me 'till then. I have been watching this game up till now, so I've got a fairly good picture in my head of who I think is town/null/scum at least superficially, though I'll have to reread if you want me to completely explain them.

First thing's first, though, I would not be averse to a funky lynch. I know he's mentioned being sick, but unless it's something that renders you bedridden or some shit like that you can still do more than prod-dodge. HOWEVER, I also think that his lynch currently isn't very informative exactly because of his lack of content, which is why I'll only pursue his lynch at this point to avoid no-lynching.

If there's anything specific you want me to address, feel free to ask me.

[Voidedmafia]

Well, I wasn't really enamored by Malee's play, nor theomancer's, so that would be my other target as of this point.

Speaking of...*goes to ISO for a second*

[Voidedmafia]

Well, my general indifference to the amished tell aside, his opinion on Malle just comes off as being too placating, or something like that. Not that hints of that can't be apparant when you replace (after all, you have to do SOMETHING to try and bring back a ruined reputation if that's what you'v replaced into), but as I said with Funky: Unless you're so bad that you're bedridden or otherwise cannot focus on on your games at all (which Malee obviously wasn't), being sick shouldn't prevent you from being helpful. Granted, I am being a bit more lenient on her than on funky as I do recall that Malee has had issues with this in the past, but I cannot accept it as the only reason.

Someone else already commented on the shrinking of his original suspect list, though I don't necessarily see it as anything overtly scummy.

Lastly, in his last post he largely complains more about his defending priorities than anything else. Of course, the interesting part of the post is why he's voting alice. Nevermind that asking the same question as someone else isn't that bad given the context, but how is something you find "a little strange" and that enough to completely reverse your original townread on the slot to vote her? Put her to null, I could accept that, but to a scumread?

vote: theo

[Voidedmafia]

Because Alice is null leaning town now, and I'm focusing on the people currently being in line to be lynched in my eyes. And obviously Alice isn't one of those people while Funky and theo are.

Also, I believe I was clear that while funky is scummy and certainly is a good lynch (aka "I'm not averse to his lynch"), the lack of information that we'd get from his lynch (besides MAYBE something regarding Nacho, according to last) does not fill me with a drive to go "DIE BIKE DIE" and such. Also, I never said I was unhappy with a bike lynch, so nice misrep.

[Voidedmafia]

Void, you seemed very interested in looking elsewhere for someone who thinks bike is scummy.

Oh noes, he's onto me!

In seriousness, though, what makes you think that? If I wanted to put things another way, I want theo lynched, with Funky as a backup in case we get to that point.

DDD: I know the tell, and quite frankly I think the accuracy from at I've seen is too shitty for it to be used (IIRC I've even had it used against me as town, though don't quote me on that).

[Voidedmafia]

SA: I think there's only a connection with nacho, honestly, though I'm not yet sure how strong that is. Maybe it's enough to make his lynch somewhat worthwhile as non-deadline, but I don't know yet.

Rhinox: Thank you for pointing out something about theo that 3 others already have -_-.

As for Funky, that doesn't really change my opinion of his play here. It just hasn't been very good at all.

Hip: You have 2 days left, at least, you can do better than that.

[Voidedmafia]

*ignores Macrophage's vote*

Funky just moved closer to being a viable lynch now (as in, more than a deadline lynch). Malee's slot is still much better.

[Voidedmafia]

It'd be better if you started with why you voted me off the bat before launching into a re-read. Just about everyone who saw it is going, "What the fuck?" and I'm still trying to figure out how much of that is OMGUS.

(and before you point to my previous vote, I mean ignore as in I'm considering myself to be voteless atm, not that I'm completely ignoring the vote itself nor the post it's in)

[Voidedmafia]

Uh-huh.

This wagon just looks better and better.

[Voidedmafia]

1st was an observation about the reactions, and a potentially-subtle-but-maybe-not-so-subtle hint for you to explain yourself.

2nd was me being undecided on how I should write off that vote: Scummy or OMGUS-y. 408 helped with that, though.

[Voidedmafia]

Hmmm. Not particularly liking Vincent's reaction here. What's the problem with the vote or with 408? And note the options he gives us - the vote was scum or OMGUS. No possibility of it being serious for any reason other than OMGUS.

Well, at the time he was like, "Hai, I'm here, btw, vote voided" and there was no indication as to why he voted me, hence my reaction. So while it could've been just a joke, I had no way of knowing that. Then in 408 he's like, "chillax, it's just a joke!" and quite frankly, I don't know why you'd throw at a joke vote at this point because they make no sense. I don't care if you're going to call me some sort of hard-hat or whatever, but we're at the point where we really can't just say "lolol vote: x lolol" and expect it to be pushed under the rug or somesuch.

re *ignores* and the clarification: Maybe I'm biased because I wrote it, but that really doesn't look like "concerned scum", though if you can explain why that's so I'm all ears. As for the clarification, meh. Felt like it could be interpreted in some ways that I didn't want it to.

re funky: His wagon looked better because he came in, said "Hey, I'm hammering soon!" and nothing else about anything. 'course, that was before I noticed he had replaced out in the replacements thread, but I still don't like it.

a4: I can assume you're voting because of Macro's suspicions?

re indifference: Funky appeared to be the main lynch candidate at the time I replaced in (though theo was an alternate or near there, I think), and I wanted to address that current issue before going through ISO's to look for my primary suspect.

[Voidedmafia]

So thinking that votes should be serious at this point in the game is a scumtell nowadays? That's news to me. Who didn't send me the memo?!

Also, I did ask you to explain why you voted me, or did you forget that?

[Voidedmafia]

...not sure if sarcastic.

[Voidedmafia]

Macro: Highest on the last will gets your vote if you get lynched or otherwise killed. So, theoretically, come LyLo a person could have all votes except the last two people alive if everybody who died gave that person their vote. I don't think the wills themselves are actually revealed, though you obviously get to know who their top pick was.

[Voidedmafia]

Yes, only the highest on the list really matters, though it's a good idea to have the top 3 or top 5 be all townreads and have the rest be your other reads.

Fishy Well, if it was a reaction-test vote (as ISO 2/408 seems to partially indicate), I sure hope it worked for him. I'm not entirely sure what he was trying to get out of it, but to me, laying down a vote at this point with no reasoning whatsoever just reads as scummy to me. If there's reasons posted beforehand, then so long as those are the reasons you're voting for and those reasons aren't already refuted it's fine. But when you just come in as a replacement and do that, I'm going to be suspicious.

re OMGUS or scummy: One option was an obvious choice, considering I restarted the Maltheophage wagon (going by the fact I'm the first vote on the slot), and the other is because, like I said, I consider votes without current or prior reasoning suspect. And since his reasoning did not look town at all, I didn't include that as a choice. Certainly doesn't look null, of course.

re my opinion: Well, I did dismiss the vote as I explained, and I pretty much just explained why I'm attacking him for it. There certainly doesn't seem to be much of a town-like reasoning to do that, as well, unless you can enlighten me.

[Voidedmafia]

Give one good reason why you shouldn't claim.

Also, explain why theo's 180 from Alice-town to Alice-scum isn't from scum. There was very little to substantiate going from a fairly solid townread right down to a solid scumread with the reasoning he went for. Like I said, it's enough to go to a null-read, but NOT enough to go to a scumread by itself, and he didn't show up again to give more.

Thirdly, DDD did use the amished tell correctly, regardless of how I feel about using it.

[Voidedmafia]

That's not a good reason why you shouldn't claim.

Also, just because it may not make sense coming from scum doesn't mean the action itself isn't scummy, Macro.

[Voidedmafia]

Just because rapid read turnarounds or joke votes don't necessarily have to come from scum, doesn't mean that doing so is often anti-town at best and fairly scummy regardless. Maybe scummy was the wrong word to use there, but I still don't like theo's relatively unexplained turnaround on his Alice read.

[Voidedmafia]

The main things making me think Voided is scum are recent.

First, the "*ignores Macrophage's vote*" appears like scum concerned with having the negative attitude required (apparently) for a scumread, but it seems really unnecessary for town. Plus, the amendment in 207 is too self-conscious. The comment that my wagon gets better and better strikes me as scummy too, but I don't really know how to explain it.

Voided: I actually have a townread on LS.
And, That's the reaction I would expect from scum, it shows that you have something to hide, that you're worried that a vote on you is serious. I would expect town's reaction to the vote to be one of indifference, or at least asking the reason for it since it would likely not be serious from their PoV.

Can people vote Voided please?

Voided-> Pretty much what I've already said. I would most like to lynch him today.

Voided and hiplop are the probable town on my wagon.

Fuck the what?

Lynch this scummy ass pronto.

[Voidedmafia]

Macro: You've gone on and on about wanting me dead, and then suddenly completely reverse your read on me, pretty much the same as theo did except scum to town instead of town to scum. And as far as I can tell, there's no reasoning why you did that switch.

2ndly, witholding a claim like that isn't pro-town at all, and the AtE doesn't help you.

DCL: Explain to me how you know he wasn't scum. That line screams that you have some sort of inside info about him, to be honest.

[Voidedmafia]

Nacho: Derp.

Macro: While I suppose I should be thankful for that, it sounds an awful lot like you're trying to appease me at the last second and hope that I unvote. I won't deny you your opinion, but you're a bit too late. I'm not changing my vote from you today.

[Voidedmafia]

Now you're just being stupid. I'm not going going to call you town just because you call me town.

[Voidedmafia]

Now you're just being stupid. I'm not going going to call you town just because you call me town.

aaaand you've proven his point.

What point, exactly? My read on him hasn't changed, so I'm not sure what you're referring to.

[Voidedmafia]

DCL: You're ignoring the two other wagons on Macro spot, yknow.

LS: It's a little disconcerting that you're brushing what appears to be some pretty strong connections between you two. Do you at least agree that, the strength of the connections aside, they're actually valid?

[Voidedmafia]

DCL: You're ignoring the two other wagons on Macro spot, yknow.

Why did you only talk about the wagon on Malee and not the ones on Theo and Macro?

[Voidedmafia]

Why did you only talk about the wagon on Malee and not the ones on Theo and Macro?

The impression I got is that the wagons on Theo and Macro were based mostly off of the wagon on Malee. This is why I addressed only the malee wagon in the post I think you are refering to.

Not entirely true.

While Theo's wagon was admittedly more tied in with malee, there was a valid point against him (the oft-rehashed 180 on Alice).

Macro's wagon is the most displaced from Malee. There's (arguably) the poorly explained joke-vote on me, the whole softclaim-to-VT-claim deal, and his recent 180 on his read on me.

[Voidedmafia]

I can agree on that, at least.

[Voidedmafia]

I've been with DDD-scum, though he was an IC that game, so that's probably a little different. Still, a DDD lynch doesn't appeal to me except to avoid the deadline.

[Voidedmafia]

It's still a possibility. Most likely it'll be you or DDD, it seems, though I'm still angling for you.

[Voidedmafia]

Perhaps it's more the way we view the claim? I found the whole "I have the special PR that i'm not telling" thing to be scummy in light of the fact that he was just about to be lynched, and I think we can at least agree on that (though how scummy is more arguably). Continuing to refuse to claim wasn't changing my mind at all about him, and the just going, "Okay, okay, I'm actually a VT" just feels like another attempt to throw us off the trail. Couple with his shoddy entry and the rapid, unexplained switch from me-scum to me-town, and I really don't feel like budging. And of course his predecessors did him no favors.

DDD, on the other hand, is shaping up to be somewhat like another funkybike. Though, there's a stronger connection between Nacho and him due to how he was hounding the former, as well as with Theo for the amished application, so his lynch would be more informative and why I'm more amicable to lynching him at deadline if necessary.

[Voidedmafia]

Macro: I've made my case, but I'm not going to go out of my way to paint every post of yours as scummy. I do need to refresh myself on your stuff post-claim, though.

Also, I've seen it a couple times, but I don't recall which games, exactly.

[Voidedmafia]

Doesn't that answer your question in part?

[Voidedmafia]

DDD: Well, that may be you, but if someone has better connection tells than someone else, everything else being the same one way or another, then I'd lynch the person with the better connections. While I don't really like DCL's push on LS (a few too many points are either rehashed or refuted for me to accept the entire thing, most notably the part that Nacho already tried to us; this is partly why I'm not gung-ho for an LS lynch), his play is vastly better than funky's and has more or less saved the slot from the lynch.

You ARE better than funkybike in this regard (you at least attempt to provide good content when you're available), but it's the way that you were pushing Nacho in the early game that just doesn't sit well with me, and since everyone else except Macro is sitting on enough of a town/null-read that I'm not interested in lynching them, that's why I'd lynch you over LS (I'm not including the Amished tell because that's too much of a playstyle difference to be used as part of a case unless it's used incorrectly, and you applied it correctly).

[Voidedmafia]

Makes me trust a little more in a Rhinox townread, that does.

I really don't know what to think of Kortul and DCL. Their cases on LS were crappy as hell (and DCL's felt like he was just rehashing old points), but I've felt that Kortul has been town for most of the game and DCL somewhat saved funky's slot. If you really pressed me, i'd say they're null-town and null, respectively, but beyond that I can't really tell you anything.

Still feel confident in my Macro-scum read.

Vote: Macrophage

[Voidedmafia]

First I'm scum, then I'm town, then I'm scum again. I'm all for changing reads, but really, man? Your read on me has been changing faster than a smoker goes through cigarettes, almost (probably not the best analogy/simile, but w/e), and it's getting rediculous.

Practically the only thing I agree with you on is that 4n is town.

[Voidedmafia]

</3

If that's directed at me: Tough.

If not: who're you heartbroken over?

[Voidedmafia]

EBWOP:... Derp.

[Voidedmafia]

Really don't like macro's switch on his voided read, is it just me or does it seem like macro swapped from calling voided scum to town late in day 1 simply to try and get voided off of his wagon?

Reread and tell me how likely you think this is.

I'll wait for Rhinox to post before saying why I think Debonair is scum, but regarding Voided...

Mostly it's his continued scumread on me. He says stuff like he's going to refresh himself on my posts, but he's not considering my alignment and is using almost everything I do or say against me.

I don't know you're alignment exactly. Yes, you claimed VT, but that doesn't mean anything until you flipped.

Also, you were still acting scummy as hell yesterday, so why shouldn't I press that? Besides, it's pretty likely:

You had me as scum when you came in but weren't exactly under pressure yourself (your slot's past actions aside). When you got ran up to L-1 and asked to claim, I'm MAGICALLY a townread. And now that you're safe (with one of our DVs actively refusing to endorse your lynch at this time), you're back to a scumread on me.

Read that and tell me that's not oppurtunistic as hell.

[Voidedmafia]

SA" The point of the tell isn't that you're defending yourself, the point is that you're going out of your way to say that your predecessors were bad, not just trying to defend yourself.

Macro: How is it a misrep? That's pretty much EXACTLY what happened (except the beginning part, but I was ignoring that you were near L-1 because of your predecessors).

[Voidedmafia]

Void, what else can you say to defend yourself in your first post of the game?

Uh, not go out of your way to say, "Yeah, the guy before me was scum?" I'm not saying don't do it period, but don't be so...blatant about it, for lack of a better way to say it.

Macro: I was a townread when you were at L-1 and were on the verge of being the lynch. When you were either not threatened with a hammer (or for today, weren't under suspicion), I was a scumread. What's not hard to understand here?

[Voidedmafia]

Did you not see the post I made right after you went to claiming VT? THREE SEPARATE POSTS had you declaring an intent to want me dead, and then VWIP! townread!

Perhaps magically is a bit too strong of a word, but the reasoning used was fairly poor as an excuse.

[Voidedmafia]

Did you not see the post I made right after you went to claiming VT? THREE SEPARATE POSTS had you declaring an intent to want me dead, and then VWIP! townread!

My point is that I was under pressure long before that despite what you say. This read change point feels so much like scum trying to keep me as a likely lynch, as after thinking about it, I'm not sure how it could be considered scummy. Hmm, can people please answer these questions:

What do you think of my read change on Voided? Do you think you could see it as scummy?

There's pressure, and then there's

pressure

. When I was a scumread, you were under pressure (or under very little as of today). When I was a townread, you were under

pressure

. And I hope I don't need to tell you what differentiates the emphasis.

Also, if that second sentence is supposed to be about me, then All I have is this: O____O.

[Voidedmafia]

And it’s the way I play; in fact the last time I think I was accused of being “evasive” was by Percy-scum in Mini 845. Besides the fact that my play would’ve been stupidly obvious for a lyncher, the problematic part is that it allows you to look for something anti-town while not looking for scum.

Remind me, how is that not actually looking for scum? If anything, it looks like a stepping stone to begin some scumhunting on ya.

Everything else is just a rehash. For example, the whining about not having town reads if I do something scummy like using my absence of them to swing my vote willy-nilly call me on it then but the argument that I did something that could be used for nefarious purpose but is instead legitimately simply how I read the game is cart before the horse thinking. I really shouldn’t have to hold your hand why explaining why using the reads of dead town players is a bad idea; Nacho thought LS was scum, I guess we should resurrect LS and lynch him again and maybe he’ll flip town this time. Intention does not increase accuracy.

Rhonix brings up a good point about this, and how you treat the opinions of those confirmed but gone worries me. By your logic, to take a hypothetical, even if you manage to pinpoint exactly who the scumteam is, as soon as you're dead and flipped town (obviously this wouldn't really be an effective example if you were scum) we should just forget about you even though you have tons of evidence that nails the scumteam.

Bringing it back to here (and sorry if I'm rehashing anything, Rhinox), so what if Nacho was wrong about LS? Intention may not equal accuracy, but that doesn't mean that what supported the evidence should be buried and never used. It's a waste of information that could actually be helpful.

[Voidedmafia]

@DCL: Do you have your own thoughts on why it's suspicious or are you just copying everyone else? (The latter is ok btw)

Well, there is only one reason for your read switch to be suspicious.

And that is...?

[Voidedmafia]

Macro: I don't know. Are you going to stop looking like the scum you seem to be, or will you start acting towny? I'm not just going to stop because you try to ask nicely if there's no reason for me to believe that you'll be better.

[Voidedmafia]

Well, if you take "better" to mean "be a better mafia player", then obviously those words aren't interchangable, but that's not how I'm using it.

Also, you may know you're town,

I

don't. Not till you're dead and flipped, anyways. And I already said the way you claimed did you no favors, so.

[Voidedmafia]

SA: No, I'm not stringing up 4n.

Also, a possible reason he went for me was that I was arguably pushing it the most (Started the wagon, etc.) and perhaps he thought that if he could get me off it first, everyone else following would get off as well. I don't know. Sure looked like some form of sucking up to me, though. And I don't think I've seen any reasonable explanation for why the read changes AREN'T scummy yet.

re the claim: DDP makes a good point. Also, claiming VT isn't always resigning to a lynch. It can just as much mean that you're not going to try and find an easy out of the lynch, though I doubt that that's what's going on here.

[Voidedmafia]

@Debonair & Voided: Claiming VT is what VT's generally do too, in case you forgot that... And voided, the read changes aren't scummy because I'm town- more reasonable than any explanations for me being scummy.

Fail defense is fail. Is all you're going to say to any accusations is, "Cuz I'm town!"? I can think of a couple different reasons why that argument doesn't work here.

[Voidedmafia]

Well, you COULD stop acting like a kiss-ass and follow Nacho's advice. Just a suggestion.

But really, you've honestly done nothing to help yourself as of late. Yes, you may have done SOME townie things; yes, you may have claimed VT; yes this, yes that. BUT, those townie things don't make you any townier via outweighing the scummy things you've done; your VT claim just has too much contrived-ness around it to make be any sort of plausible defence (nevermind trying to shut down anything with the, "but I'm town" argument).

Your exaggeration for how I'm taking your posts is pretty far off the map even for an exaggeration, but the fact of the matter is that the only reason you're still alive, it seems, is because of two dead townies stopping one of the DVs. I could be wrong on this, but that seems to be what it's down to.

P-edit: And lo! Speak of it, and it shall come!

The timing of it is somewhat questionable, but I still feel that this was probably one of the best times to put down a post like that, and not just for posterity's sake. It's a pretty townie post, and right now is pretty much what's making me rethink a little.

[Voidedmafia]

You're being a kiss-ass by still trying to placate people, and that means you aren't scumhunting enough.

Yes there is much actually scummy about you, your predecessor, and your predecessor's predecessor. If you REALLY care for me to, I can try to document each thing that's scummy for malee, theo, and you, but I feel that we've documented it enough. And I'm tunneling because I believe you're scum. Problem?

Your claim made us waste a lynch on a stupid target, that's what it did. I'm not trying to white-knight myself about LS's death, but I do think that it wasn't a good lynch at all for D1. You would've been a great lynch, alicewondering wouldn't have been bad (though I wouldn't have liked that one either), even Rhinox would've been okay. So GJ, you got yourself a mislynch. Unless someone pulls a scummy rabbit out of their ass anytime soon, I still think you're gonna be dead today, that aforementioned town post aside.

Also, why are you so sure that that's what's going on? Not to mention how laughable it is you're trying to say the claim business is in any way "obvtown".

The timing is questionable because it's not only one of the best times to post at least a pro-town post, but it's also a vergy good time to post something to save your ass.

Well, if you mean change my opinion from scum to town, then no. But, you've gone from "scummy" to "kinda scummy". Not QUITE at the point where I'd unvote you, but you've solidified the ice underneath you somewhat, so to speak.

[Voidedmafia]

DDD, but if that's the case, why did he claim to be a power role in the first place? If vanilla is such a safe claim for scum to make, why did he feel the need to claim to be a power role first? The fact that he didnt do so defeats your point because macro didn't see vanilla as such a safe claim to make, yet when pressured more, he resigned and claimed vanilla. As scum, I'm sure he'd continue to make something up. His vanilla claim had more of an "ok, you got me. Here's the truth" tone to it.

And scum can't do this, too?

Void, I'll admit it's not really fresh in my mind and id have to go back and read it again, but I don't remember having the impression that you were leading the wagon.

I know I was a major pusher on the wagons for both THeo and Macroa, and I think I started the Macro wagon.

Everyone voting macro, read his case on DCL. Don't look at the quality of the case or even whether you agree with it or not. Look at the intent and pick apart macro's brain. It is very obvious that he is convinced part way through the post that he has found scum and presented a great case on why. Scum wouldn't have to convince themselves because they'd know whether they are right ot wrong.

No, they don't have to convince themselves, but they do have to convince everyone else. If macro can do that, then that's still some kudos to him.

However, I do agree that that is incredibly unlikely. That feeling was something I also got from the post (not right at the beginning, but as I reread it), and like I said, it's made me less keen for his lynch.

[Voidedmafia]

DDD, but if that's the case, why did he claim to be a power role in the first place? If vanilla is such a safe claim for scum to make, why did he feel the need to claim to be a power role first? The fact that he didnt do so defeats your point because macro didn't see vanilla as such a safe claim to make, yet when pressured more, he resigned and claimed vanilla. As scum, I'm sure he'd continue to make something up. His vanilla claim had more of an "ok, you got me. Here's the truth" tone to it.

I’m not saying he’s scum because of his claim; I’m just refuting the idea that he has to be town because of his claim. Try this on for size: he’s scum and he makes the non-VT claim to see if he can shake his wagon without opening himself up for a counterclaim; when that doesn’t work instead of making a claim that doesn’t work or gets counterclaimed he revises it to a VT claim knowing that people like you will probably defend his unorthodox play and he still might not get lynched because a VT claim is not the instant death sentence some suggest it is.

Better worded way of what I wanted to say.

[Voidedmafia]

inevitable*, SA.

Though, I would have to agree with SA on this. Most of the things you mentioned are actually things that scum might do for distancing, etc, as SA already mentioned.

[Voidedmafia]

This just in, April was suddenly granted 13 extra days!

[Voidedmafia]

hes never coming back, is he?

nnnnnnnnnnnnnnope.

He will be missed...

[Voidedmafia]

Fishy: Eh, I meant to do a second post to articulate what I felt about it, but I forgot. Though, he posted that as I was making that decrying of DCL's vote, hence the P-edit to include it.

Long and short of it is that it didn't change my read of DCL very much (in the sense of going from town to scum; to be specific at the time , it went from fairly solidly town to about null), but it just felt like that was a good place to make a post, even if people (or just DCL, if he's the only one who's actually replied to it at this point) think it's kinda crappy.

Even now, I still feel like that post was fairly townie, which, again, is why I'm somewhat staying my hand from pushing him. However, even though I was denying it, I'm a bit too tunneled on him. I was (and still am) hoping to get somewhere after he flips (and I think I still can even if he flips town). And I have nearly everyone else at some level of towniness, which is obviously bad. DCL is currently the worst of those townreads, followed rather loosely by SA and DDP somewhat, and of the two DVs Rhonix is townier than Fishy.

LS's lynch just put me off on a bad start, and my ability to really get this game is dwindling by the second, and you can be sure that this is annoying the shit outta me.

[Voidedmafia]

Well, I've already said that the "I'm VT" argument is really falling flat already. Other than that, I am slightly confused.

As for your hypothetical: DCL still stays town. Despite your post on him that pushed him lower, he's still pretty much revived funky's slot to me, and nothing makes me overly keen to change my mind on him.

DDP drops down to the slightly scummy range. It's nice that he's using more than the amished tell against you, but the fact that that was pretty much his only point of attack against you for quite a while doesn't sit right.

SA would look more town due to his dismissal of the case against you (though it just seems to be him arguing for the town/non-scum motivations while I argue the scum motivations). It's not abrupt or anything, but the tone just really sounds like, "Guys, you're wrong, get off his back, stop tunneling, and get some goddamn work done." Of course, if you flip scum it looks like scum trying to get pressure off a buddy, but that's not the point of this hypo, is it?

Anyways, the only other read that would feasibly change would be alicewondering, but my memory's starting to get fuzzy around the end of D1 in regards to who else was pressuring you along with me, and it's nearing bedtime, so this'll be all from me for now.

[Voidedmafia]

DDP drops down to the slightly scummy range. It's nice that he's using more than the amished tell against you, but the fact that that was pretty much his only point of attack against you for quite a while doesn't sit right.

I've lynched people before on just that tell and it's worked out well for me before. But I really like my latest argument as well; by his own words he says a vanilla townie should do X; he did Y which screams to me that he's not a vanilla townie.

I guess that makes sense, and that is why I like you more now.

[Voidedmafia]

Good luck, Llama!

Fishy: Maybe, but it doesn't seem to be a lot of stuff. Then again, I'm not doing shit either, so I'm not one to talk <_<.

[Voidedmafia]

...*sigh*

Also, DCL only gets my vote tomorrow, and that's if you flip town.

[Voidedmafia]

Fishy: But the point kinda gets turned around, as that then implies that he's not a VT because he didn't claim VT right off the bat. And since I find him being a power role to personally be highly unlikely, what does that make him then?

SA: I found DCL town because he was being active and actually scumhunting unlike his predecessor, the two points that were the main prongs of attack against bike. And of course, since those two points were no longer viable, he becomes a townread. I've already said why he's now null, though.

[Voidedmafia]

Activity isn't an alignment tell. It's a free time tell. Unless you can show me games where Bike or DCL lurked as scum at the same time as they were active in a town game, there is no argument for or against their activity in this game. Even then, it may or may not be valid.

THE POINT BEING that there was no reason to think the slot was scum anymore, and since DCL was doing things that were town, he thus became a townread.

[Voidedmafia]

Oh, FFS.

Site goes down, I lose my post, and I"m not retyping it. Suffice to say, there's a couple things that I like about DCL (articulates reads, the VCA, and how he presented his case on LS).

Speaking of the VCA, DCL, are you going to go back to it?

[Voidedmafia]

And I answered it, just not as articulate as it would've been had the site not gone down last night.

[Voidedmafia]

And I need to mention the case to answer the question, now? Unless there's some serious case of miscommunication, I fail to see how the post was NOT trying to outweigh the case on Bike.

[Voidedmafia]

Yeah, he was at L-1.

There's also some rather suspicious read-changes on me (Macro had me as scum when he came in, switched me to town when he was at L-1 and claimed, then put me back at scummy once D2 started, all of this effectively following a bell curve of when he was under suspicion), along with DDD pushing the amished tell.

[Voidedmafia]

Again, the read-changes are scummy because of how convenient the shifts are. I don't know what exactly he was trying to get out of that (still really don't), but just doing that anyways, regardless of who it was with, imo was going to be pretty suspect.

Also, he likes it because he made a case against DCL and has him as the primary lynch. I personally don't see a DCL lynch happening today, but eh...

[Voidedmafia]

A.) Relevant*

B.) How are you not getting that I was outweighing (or at least attempting to) the scum case? I mean, yeah, sure, I never mentioned the scum case (though the original draft did), but do you really think that wasn't an/the intention of that post?

[Voidedmafia]

And so, hah, I just see that my replaced slot had the hammer vote on either Macrophage or DDD earlier. Yet no one seems to have been pushing for action, or for Alice to remove her lone single vote off of Sleepless Assassin. That's....well, that's just downright bizarre.

not sure of what your getting at here. Do you think we should've goaded alice into hammering? Or do you want us to realize that your vote is still on SA?

Alice unvoted...

[Voidedmafia]

OH, derp, she didn't. Never mind.

[Voidedmafia]

DDD's death isn't something I'm against, i was pretty vocal early on , I think. I'm open to hammer, just I believe we should wait a bit.

Macro already asked, but what exactly are you waiting for?

[Voidedmafia]

Reading Fishy's possible description of DDD's claim helps me believe it more, as that makes perfect sense given the theme of the game. DDD is thus off my lynch list.

I'm still rather against a DCL lynch, so I'll only vote him if no one will lynch Macro.

SA: What do you mean, "What I didn't like"? If you don't remember, I heavily agreed that Funky was one of the scummier/scummiest people in the game, second only to Macro and his slot. But DCL has outweighed the parts of the funky case that made me think he's scum. Is that better?

[Voidedmafia]

Re-explain Rhonix, please.

[Voidedmafia]

*happy over lynching Macro-scum, sad about losing 4nx*

With Macro flipping scum, I believe there are a few associations from all three people on that slot that I need to look over. Don't have time to now, but it's something I need to do later.

DDD: Didn't Rhinox explain why he was absent most of D2? I will agree that the last second vote is slightly suspicious, but not enough to overly change my mind.

Also, while the vote going to Mag is suspicious, I'm not entirely sure whether it's to a scumpartner or just a red herring. I don't think it's bad for scum to give their vote to a partner (one vote, at least), though I'm not going to push Mag with just this reasoning.

Mag: Why am I obvtown (seemingly through my pushing of Macro), while DDD is town through being the counterwagon and hiplop isn't town at all?

[Voidedmafia]

(just a warning, I may restate things that have been said already, even from myself. Please don't complain when that happens.)

Going through Malee's ISO, there isn't anything I can say works as an associative tell. Largely because the two biggest choices for this (Nacho and 4nx) are already dead and flipped town.

Theo is a bit better prospect. His first post of substance has the whole "some whole cases, some short sentences" thing, but the interesting thing here is that Fishy and SA are the only ones that have any sort of overtly articulated case (that is, the case is actually explained). This sort of mish-mash has already been addressed, but why did he pick those two? While it may seem counter-intuitive to do this, it's just as likely that he decided to bus both his partners, though him only bussing one is more likely (if anyone has gone down this reasoning before, by all means link me to where). He doesn't throw a vote down on either, though, so it's possible that it's just light bussing/pressure.

Also notable is that all the short reads are null (Nacho, 4nx, Kortul, vincent/me, funky/DCL) to townreads (Rhinox, LS, Alice) with the sole exceptiona of DDD, which I can let slide until there's proof one way or another of DDD's role, and hiplop. I'd say the other scum is within the null reads, barring Rhonix being kick-ass scum this game. And of those, I'd honestly lean DCL over Kortul being the other scum.

Next post doesn't have much else that's useful (except the Alice comment, but that's forthcoming). Most of it deals with LS and 4nx, who're dead, thus making this post worthless for associative tells.

His last post is arguably the most interesting one as it has the "Alice flip", but for the purposes that I'm looking for, I don't think it's what I'm looking for. The most I can possibly see out of this is that it makes Alice look townier. It's still possible that theo was trying for some sort of tactic to get towncred for either of them (most likely Alice than him), but in that sense it's just too unlikely. Alice does gain more townpoints from this, however.

Macro next.

[Voidedmafia]

I had hoped I could've made more headway into this with a Macro-scumflip. Either the lack of proper sleep is fucking with my head and preventing me from getting what I wanted, or I massively overstated how much I could gain.

Regarding current goings-on, I feel that Kortul is slightly better than Fishy based on the post above this, which would make Fishy bad in my eyes, but at the same time I find him to be in a better standing with his arguments with Mag (my personal opinions on meta-tells aside). I don't think I'll be voting Fishy anytime soon, though.

Mod: Remind me, if I vote someone, do both of my votes count toward him? Can I only vote one person, or do both votes have to be in play/unvoted (like with ThAd's Doublevote Mafia)?

[Voidedmafia]

Oh, so basically like DV Mafia, then.

PoE to me dictates that Kortul or SA, or Mag would be where I'd place my votes today, though they're not all bad choices.

Rhinox: Just because you hammered scum doesn't mean that can't be suspect.

[Voidedmafia]

vote:kortul

L-2 now, should claim

I'm curious why he should claim now with no one threatening a hammer.

Agreed. Mag and I are the only people who can hammer when he's at L-2 (Rhinox and Fishy are alread on him), and while I can't speak for him, I'm not entirely sold on Kortul-scum. It sounds very much like he's anticipating one of us coming in to finish off Kortul or something, and I don't really like that sentiment.

[Voidedmafia]

DCL, please explain where at all I've indicated I would definitively lynch Kortul. I've stated that, if it comes down to it at the deadline, I'd lynch him over Fishy, but that does not and should not mean that I want him dead now.

At this point I'm more keen on a Mag lynch. His push on Fishy has lost any sense of reason or sensibility, especially after that last post.

Vote: Magua

[Voidedmafia]

Feeling much better with my Magvote, now. Fishy has shown some definitive reads, and it really sounds like Mag is trying to exaggerate the wishy-washy point on Fishy just to try and get him lynched. Feels way too desperate to be any sort of definitive attack, and that exaggerating is just making him look scummier by the mention.

[Voidedmafia]

Snarkiness isn't an alignment tell (or shouldn't be)...

[Voidedmafia]

Your 1062 is so informative, too.

Not gonna answer mag's question?

[Voidedmafia]

Kortul: Because town shouldn't worry about bad connections that would just result in more townies being lynched amirite?

Also, I'm going V/LA tomorrow and won't be back till Saturday/Sunday, and I can't garauntee I'll have consistent access to post (and if I do, it'd just be to update the two newbies I'm modding). If you want to Temp-replace, Llama, that's fine, but unlike Vincent I will be back to play when I get home.

[Voidedmafia]

@Voided - i think that town should worry about making a bad judgement call. I don't see why would anyone panic because someone who they think is town may flip scum one day, unless they definitely know the result of future flip. Still, that's my experience from several years of RL games, so it may be wrong in a long forum game, in that case i am interested in a better description behind such panic. Maybe i will understand Rhinox logic and vote better then, or understand why he/Fishy/DCL all of sudden suspect me because i didn't land my vote on everyone whom i suspected.

Well, you have a point if he was, like, super-spazzy or something like that (exaggerated, but still). Maybe the amount of panic was more than necessary, but I'm sure you wouldn't want to be taken down because you happened to have these connections to a flipped scum that people notice after he/she's dead and then they bear down on you without you able to change their minds, or something.

[Voidedmafia]

Though, if Macro had lived to near-LyLo and hadn't used that shot, that would be a very useful ability. Sounds a lot like an ability that's better used for the late-game.

Still getting a feeling like Kortul's posts are good enough not to ping suspicions. I can't tell if it's careful scum or just his style of posting, unfortunately.

(last post from me, methinks. If so, peace out, cya Sunday/Monday)

[Voidedmafia]

SA: What, exactly did you not like from me, again?

DDD: I still feel confident in my Mag-vote, though I can follow you to SA at the deadline. In short: Switch your #1 and #2 and that's me.

As I'm staring at the screen of this tiny little laptop of my gramp's, I'm trying to think about the Fishy/Mag argument flipping my perspectives of the two (fishy-scum and Mag-town, respectively). At first glance it seems like it doesn't really add up with that in mind--Mag's meta argument is too refuted and overdrawn to be much use, and DDD raised a good point about the PoE. Fishy's defense, while seeminly more focused on that, still holds a sincerity that scum are rather hard-pressed to copy.

Making it be scum vs. scum maks SLIGHTLY more sense, though there's still the wrench of Fishy's sincerity. However, from this view Mag's disjointed argument does make a little more sense, as it is there enough that you can call it an argument, but there doesn't seem to be enough to really push anything. However, unless they decided during the night to let Mag take the fall or something, this is very much making Mag look worse, and I don't think Fishy-scum is really able to carry a game with this many town in it by himself (no offense meant). With that in mind, scum vs. scum isn't likely.

Going to town vs. town doesn't really make sense, largely because I agree with what DDD said. I really would've expected Mag-town to have at least tried a gander at a bit more meta to see if he can shore up his point better, not just stick to just one or two pieces of meta he may or may not have read and try to push those to kingdom come. So this STILL hurts Mag even as town.

So, yeah, I still feel like Mag's the scum in that argument (and I hope you people could follow that).

(also, yay for having a block of time to post something. Don't know if I'll have another one, though.)

P-EDIT: But the hammer doesn't scream scum, either...well, not to me at least.

[Voidedmafia]

SA, what exactly did you not like about my thought process or reasons?

DDD: How are we "enabling" him when that implies that you're in that group and that it's not necessarily on our end? Maybe you're right, but SA isn't helping himself, at least.

DCL: Well, if you don't like it, vote him. I can't believe I didn't notice how fence-sitting 1110 is.

[Voidedmafia]

And if he's just being useless town?

P-EDIT: Then again, that's fine with me.

Vote: Sleepless

L-1

[Voidedmafia]

...You're already voting him...

[Voidedmafia]

Okay, Mag, really. What's the big idea trying to fakehammer?

[Voidedmafia]

Somehow I doubt he didn't know about the VC.

[Voidedmafia]

Probably just wanted to post the picture. By the way, I'm working that day off but I might still get some time tomorrow.

That makes more sense.

Also, I asked because most of what you've been saying is touchy-feely noncommital stuff. at least Mag has been rather direct with his thoughts, no matter how wrong i think they are.

[Voidedmafia]

me?

[Voidedmafia]

Not like I was wrong <_<

[Voidedmafia]

To his credit, kortul is in his lynch pool, and if we put it in order, he's first on the list.

P-EDIT: The point is that you've been sitting on Kortul for so long he can't imagine why you'd suddenly be all willing to get someone OTHER than Kortul lynched.

Or wha he said <_<

[Voidedmafia]

I woul say what the point was, but now I think I'm confused.

[Voidedmafia]

Voided knows exactly what I'm doing.

You shouldn't hide behind him as an excuse.

...Or do I?

Gimme some time after I'm off V/LA, will you?

[Voidedmafia]

(That, and I was wrong the last time I tried explaining the point, so...)

[Voidedmafia]

Fine. I'll shut up till one of you is lynched, then.

[Voidedmafia]

Just so long as none of us go complacent while we wait. Annoying as hell (for myself as well).

[Voidedmafia]

-Void=maybe actually scum now

Are you reading the same game as the rest of us?

Hey, now, don't discourage him...

[Voidedmafia]

I happened to be there when he did it, and just reacted accordingly. I honestly doubt that SA would've been in any way concerned if he saw Mag's previous vote before that, though.

As for complacency, I admit that Macro's flip didn't give me the traction I wanted, though this was in part helped by non-Mafia circumstances (like a sudden wave of apathy and burnout that seems to be hitting me more frequently than I'd really like at the beginning of the day).

Kortul: How can you not? Just argue or something.

[Voidedmafia]

I doubt you want to die anytime soon, so she can understand.

[Voidedmafia]

Rhinox is not dying today. No way. Perhaps I could hop on that wagon another day, but not today. Fishy has a better chance of dying today than him.

To me, there's three choices in this order (somewhat): Magua, you, or Fishy, with DCL weaving in and out of there as my mind wanders (yes, I know he makes four, but he's not consistently in the lineup). What you've done so far is good for an unvote, at least. I think I said this before (though I may not have), but my vote was either gonna go to "horribly bad case with no chance" Mag or "little nothings that add up to being useless now" you.

Vote: Magua

[Voidedmafia]

What you've done so far is good for an unvote, at least.

Really? You put someone at L-1 and tell them they're going to die if they don't produce content; they produce content and somehow that changes your opinion of them? What else was he going to do with all that time?

Answered your own question, broski.

[Voidedmafia]

Kortul, unless you can scrounge up support from two or three of us five DVs, I don't think you're gonna get anywhere with a DCL wagon.

Fishy's rather stuck on Mag (and I agree with him on why); if Mag drops his suspicion of you for DCL, then he might join you; Rhinox seems to be indecisive and seemingly unlikely to change his stance anytime soon if he last post is anything to go by; as for me, I'm rather confident in my magvote that I'm not as willing to change it. I do forget if DDD had DCL as a possible lynch candidate, though, so you might get him as well. (and a quick look back to about 1035 reveals that he wouldn't mind that lynch, at least).

If you only get Mag and DDD, then you'd have to get SA and hip's replacement to follow you before you get a lynch, so g'luck wit dat.

[Voidedmafia]

DDD, I mean that you basically stated why I voted him: He wasn't producing content, we demanded content, I voted him to L-1 ramp to the pressure for content (I am aware that I didn't exactly state that when I voted him but the course of action for him was rather clear by that point, no?), he eventually produced satisfactory content, I unvoted once said content was delivered. You'll notice I did keep my vote on him until he caught up with his intended Macro ISO (there was the stuff with Theo and Malee, yes, but I had already covered most of that back at the beginning of the day, so I wanted something better than that)

[Voidedmafia]

Fishy, Magua, DDD and hiplop replacement - what are your thoughts on DCL and my case on him?

@Voided, as far as i understand you are not going to vote DCL today, so can you at least give a feedback to my case?

It's

fine

, inasmuchas I'd reference it should I be brought to believe DCL is scum. If it's consolation, he's move into my lynchpool (and kicked Fishy out).

[Voidedmafia]

All right, let's just get something done. I agree with Danny, at this rate we're just going to slide into the deadline with shit done.

vote; SA

[Voidedmafia]

Okay, not gonna lie, I seriously thought either I or DDD would be dead.

Rhinox and DDD are town, no doubt.

Vote: Magua

[Voidedmafia]

...I never said such a thing, RHinox. Actually, I didn't even comment on the claim.

[Voidedmafia]

Well, that does explain why rhinox would hammer without a claim.

This is the guy you want, not me.

Speaking of DCL, though, I really doubt it's Fish/anyone. It's still possible, but I'm not holding my breath.

[Voidedmafia]

How the fuck was hiplop a mason?

Somehow, I figured you'd have a bit more coming into today. Still holding out for it, but now I don't think it's likely. I still feel you're the better lynch.

DCL, Fishy is, like, the last possible suspect for scum this game. Most of the fights he's been in I can't see coming from him being scum, and he's only scum if you, Mag, and/or Kortul aren't and because PoE dictates Rhinox nor DDD are scum. Unless we get to 3-man LyLo where we've only gotten one scum from the pool of (DCL, Magua, Kortul), I'm not going to support a Fishy lynch nor will I advocate one. Or something.

P-EDIT:...not very likely.

[Voidedmafia]

To be frank, on that point, I don't blame him. As I said in my first post today, I fully expected to die, or if not me, DDD.

I don't think there's much point in not answering the question now, anyways, as I'm probably going to die tonight for sure (uness they pick DDD, of course), so yes, I am a Mason.

Kortul: Mag's pretty clear-cut scum, I think. Post 1259 is farily null alignment-wise, as I think any sane player would question last night's kill choice, and is a reasonable explanation form Post 1257, but the case outlined D3 still stands.

[Voidedmafia]

And if I am alive tomorro, Fishy? I'm not overly doubting it, but provided they don't do another bizarro shot, I think DDD is the other likely person in the crosshairs. though, I'm having some doubts about how likely, but he still seems to be the choice over anyone else except me.

Kortul: Why are you asking me? I don't know.

[Voidedmafia]

Kortul:...Bah, forget it. We're just going to confuse each other at this rate.

Fishy: Op, maybe (I wouldn't be able to judge that), but it's true.

[Voidedmafia]

Besides getting some more talking points, what exactly would we get from that? How many other roles could there possibly be for town other than DDD's?

[Voidedmafia]

DDD's role seems like it's a role either side could have, based on how I remember it being presented.

I can agree with the other paragraph, though. Mind starting things off?

[Voidedmafia]

Isn't it 3 masons vs. will flipper+1-shot VCop or 3 masons+will flipper vs. 1-shot VCop?

I still just feel that Magua is scum, but I'm still very afraid of getting into the same rut as I did with Macro. I mean, sure, I was eventually right about him, but it's not a rut I want to stay in. But then there's the chance I may be right again...blaaargh...

[Voidedmafia]

Wait, what makes you think Mag even has an investigation?

[Voidedmafia]

Going by the timestamps from 860 to 865, he had about 5 hours to hammer between DCL voting DDD and you unvoting him. It's not a big window, and it's not small either, but I don't remember if he was even there at the time.

Also, Mag, please clean up that last paragraph before your vote. I think I understand what you're saying, but the lack of a closing parenthesis makes it difficult.

[Voidedmafia]

btw, I will have some LA over the weekend. The MLG Spring Championships kick off at 5:30 PM EST and will last most of the night, so I will be devoting most of my time there. Check here for the times that I'll be LA, which is basically from when it starts each day to when it ends. There will be some breaks that I can use to check on stuff, but I don't think they'll be overly large.

[Voidedmafia]

I think the third option is a far more likely. Sure, Rhinox's flip-flopping and the way things were going at first may have allowed the 2nd option to follow (and I may be delving into hindsight bias), but I think that his lynch was inevitable.

Though, if Macro did go down for towncred, then that opens the question of who was going for it? I'll try to find something for this once the MLG Spring champs end (just have the LoL part left), unelss Mag or someone beats me to it.

unvote

[Voidedmafia]

Vote Count

Macrophage (7) - Voidedmafia, hiplop, Debonair Danny DiPietro, kortul, 4nxi3ty, rhinox

Since 3/7 are confirmed (Hip and 4nx) or near-confirmed (me) townies, and option three means DDD isn't scum, only need to focus on Kortul and RHinox. That'll be easier.

Kortul:
Post 865 distances from the wagon (also said unvote). Macro's post immediately following this smells of buddying, though.
Post 881 slight reversal of 865 to light bussing.
Most posts past this are heavily (or at least firmly) endorsing DCL's lynch, indicating further distancing.
Post 912 Hesitant bussing, or something like that?

Rhinox - Post 874 Prefers Macro over DCL
Post 906 Again indicates DDD or Macro. Given where his vote finally ended up, should indicate bussing. (Funny note: That pool of four has 3 conf/near-conf, the odd one being Kortul)
Post 920 Abrupt switch to 4nx/me instead of DDD/Macro. Distancing.
Post 928 Back to DDD/Marco just as abruptly. Bussing.
Post 946 Hesitatnce in getting on Macro now indicates distancing.
Post 954 If read as bussing, "Oh please please read this as conflicted town rather than unwilling scum", or something like that.

From 865 to Macro's lynch at 958, with what I think each post means according to whether they push the lynch or avoid it.

Going by Mag's option three (which is that Macro was bussed and went down for towncred), Rhinox actually seems to be better tailored for this, which sucks because of how sure of a town read I have on him.

(Of course, I haven't really done something like this, so I'm probably wrong, but if you all can get something out of it, that'll work for me.)

[Voidedmafia]

Without zero support

Not true. THere was a vote on Kort before DCL.

(Yes, I've reduced myself to one-liners. THat's what happens when you're effectively conftown and everyone else looks town to you.)

Dammit, this is Marketplace Mafia ALL OVER AGAIN! ('cept it's not an SK we're looking for, but still) (Please tell me you feel my pain on this, Mag. Please.)

[Voidedmafia]

People I'm pretty much never going to vote:
Rhinox
DDD

People who are fairly town and I'm not keen on voting:
Fishy
Kortul

Not quite town but not quite scum:
Magua

PoE scum:
DCL

Kortul is somewhat borderline (or at least as borderline as you can get with my less-than-sure reads) case, but I'm at least sure enough of it that I wouldn't vote him for now.

The thing that's starting to bother me is the possible WIFOM that I'm being left alive because the scum(s) know that I'm rather complacent as conftown (either from the aforementioned Marketplace Mafia or from another game), though if I'm not dead tonight that's just going to be a big bunch of "WTF" getting thrown into the mix.

I still stand by my read on Magua from D3, though I do feel his D4 play has made him look better. He's still the lowest read I've got, so I guess that's where I'll have to hedge my bets.

Vote: Magua

[Voidedmafia]

Yknow, Mag, I'd love to have that kind of connection to give for when I'm dead. Really would. Sadly, that's not how things work in Voidedtown, not at this point. This is turning more and more into Marketplace Mafia for me, though unlike there isn't anyone making some sort of tell that I can latch onto (or a post that helps me rethink a read) (on the plus side, Grey isn't in this game.).

...A crazy thought was that the team was DCL-Kortul, though I don't think that's overly likely. Possible, but unlikely. I GUESS I can try to scrounge up some sort of connections post, but don't expect it to be any good.

Btw, Rhinox, if Fishy and Mag crossbussed to get towncred, it must've been for Fishy's benefit, otherwise I think that backfired.

[Voidedmafia]

Btw, DDD, have you used your shot at all this game? And did you fullclaim at all yet?

As for the Will, I do agree with that and just sent Llama an updated will.

[Voidedmafia]

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF--stupid-ass back button ate up some of what I was writing on DCL, and now I'm not in the mood to re-type it. -_-

Okay, maybe I can't do that. Maybe I can do stuff if it's Magtown:

Fishy, I think, would stay town, as I still feel he came off better in your D2/D3 argument, and I think he's town regardless of your alignment.

DCL moves to be scum, and I was working on possible connections but my keybard said "lolnope" so that's not happening. What I did get was possible Fishy bussing. I was also mainly trying to look for DCL+Mag links, though I don't think I actually got to anywhere worth considering, sadly. 748 is possible bussing to Macro, and actually there's plenty of that up to 776 against macro. 948 just rubs me the wrong way with the sarcastic part to Rhinox. 979 starts some potentially heavy bussing of Fishy--which gets immediately turned around 20 posts later, which just looks weird...bah, I think I just convinced myself of this.

Vote: DCL

(Should be L-1)

I have noticed that DCL has been somewhat consistently attacking Fishy for most of the game (somewhat because it's not like he's done it all game, but it doesn't exactly feel off-and-on, if you get what I'm saying). If DCL flips scum that's probably an unfortunate blow for my Fishy-town read but that's how it goes sometimes.

I believe that Rhinox is definitely town regardless of Mag's or DCL's flips, I think DDD is as well. Kort's is still possibly one of the last scum, but I don't really feel like going through for the connections and stuff now, so this is what you'll get.

I would like DDD to answer my questions before anyone hammers, though.

[Voidedmafia]

Magua should have first-hand knowledge of that from Marketplace Mafia since he modded that one (though it isn't a complete parallel as I didn't have everyone solidly town in that game, I don't think). That's the only game I know of that anyone in the playerlist has seen me been conftown.

DDD and I were in a Newbie (don't remember which one), and Rhinox modded my first non-Newbie game (1137, IIRC), but I don't know if either of them have actually watched any of my games before or after them (or just after in Rhinox's case).

Or is that now what you're asking?

Spoiler: random thought

I wonder if anyone has ever bothered to give some sort of meta summary of my town and scumgames. I'd like to see that.

[Voidedmafia]

Post 1368 That doesn't answer if it's X-shot, though, but okay.

Post 1371 I just dislike this post. I didn't exactly like it the first time he made a similar post, and I don't like it now. Especially because it ignores that I just went about convincing myself that he's scum w/o using PoE.

Post 1373 But what if I'm not fake? As much as I'd understand the willingness to vote me if I'm dead tonight, I'm still telling the truth that I'm the 3rd mason. Would you still auto-lynch me even then?

What if they shoot Danny tonight instead of me? He's arguably as much of a threat to scum as I am, so I wouldn't be surprised if he dies instead.

Post 1374 I just did.

There's at least time in the deadline to post after work ends, so I'll hammer Mag if DCL isn't lynched by then.

[Voidedmafia]

Jeez, I was hoping you people would talk more during work.

Final reads still stand based on a Mag-town flip (if it's Mag-scum I think I'd still go for DCL and Korts). If the scum kill anyone other than me or DDD I'm just going to be absolutely stupefied.

Vote: Magua

(should be the hammer)

[Voidedmafia]

It WAS a pretty convincing fakeclaim, I think, even if it was a role that Llama eventually didn't use.

I suppose I was partly right about Korts (Partly because I was going off of Mag-scum connection rather than figuring it out myself), but I probably wouldn't have lynched DDD.

P-EDIT: Half points count, though!

[Voidedmafia]

And this is AFTER you ridicule me for having Kortul as a scumspect? I sense irony here.

That aside, I still think that DDD would've been nearly impossible to lynch if he chose his NK's correctly.

4nx, I have no problem with it. Mason QT

Though, Kortul and DDD, I REALLY have to ask why you shot Hiplop instead of me.

[Voidedmafia]

"Sad if you go after Korts if I flip scum, not if I flip town"

Not DIRECT redicule, but it did seem to imply to me that you kinda thought he was toen.