Mini 1729 - History Mafia II END

[BeardedCat]

VOTE: Metal Sonic

Scum claimed.

[BeardedCat]

Hey Bella guess which head?

[BeardedCat]

OK, so Rory is an alt...does anyone know who that is?

Bella, I only like wagons I can join! Help me make one?

[BeardedCat]

I've told my other head who you are! It's all good. I didn't recognise the name Rory on the playerlist but once you posted I recognised you right away. <3

Post 12 was me, post 13 was BBT; we were both logged in at the same time.

--P

[BeardedCat]

gnope, we're gnot. are you? if you are, we'll catch you!

--P

[BeardedCat]

Hi MS! You town? I voted you because I think you were first to scum claim.

Dwlee, you'll get used to it. I disliked hydra's myself when I started playing.

~BBT

[BeardedCat]

I believe you.

Who shall we wagon? Aristo or Bella are fine choices IMO.

[BeardedCat]

Why are we having sex in history class,

Titus

?

dwlee

,

kt

, how's the world look outside your mutual tunnel?

Rory

's togne sougnds siggnificagntly better thagn ign gn1628 where he was my buddy. Much less ignhibited. As scum he sougnded much more cognstraigned and reticegnt. He's ignteractigng with people like a persogn who hasgn't got agnythigng to hide. I've got agn early towgnleagn ogn him as a result.

Hey

scorpious

remember me? What are you getting out of questions like 38 and 79? Are you going to ask everyone else too?

Hey

Aero

I know you don't like themes but please try because I am looking forward to playing with you. <3

Ciao

Bella

ciao Bella ciao ciao ciao how are you doing come talk to us.

Metal

, are you sonic or sanic this game? Do you have any reads yet?




List of people who are attempting to scumhunt after a fashion:

Aristo

,

Wolfitus

,

Dwlee

,

KT

, and

Rory

.
List of people who are almost attempting to scumhunt well sort of anyway:

Scorp

and

Bastion

.
List of people on neither of the above lists:

Sonic

,

Bella

,

Parabola

,

gummy

, and

Aero

.


@

Nexus

: ♫ Hello teacher tell me what's my lesson ♫ are we gonna learn about the battle of Volochayevka?

--P

[BeardedCat]

@Bastion: no, probably not. BBT doesn't like meta. Once there's enough stuff in this game to go on we'll be more focused on that. It's just it's page 4 and I feel like the game is already drowning in fluff and I'm struggling to get reads as a result so I'm focusing on the people that I know.

As for me, I use meta a little here and there but only for players that I've played with before that I think I can read easily. There are a couple players that I know are utterly transparent as scum and as a result the bar that they have to step over is very low. There are some others that I've played with before but I don't feel like they'll be obvscum or obvtown just because I've played with them before so that won't factor into it as much.

So that's Rory and maybe Scorp, but Scorp is complicated and he's new enough that he may have grown as a player since I saw him last.

I've also hydraed with bellaphant in a couple games recently and I feel like we know how the other thinks but she's a good enough player that it's not going to be obvious to either of us until we've had some time to settle into the game I think.

I feel like a lot of the players on this playlist are newish either to the site or to mafia in general so I'm hoping some of the tells I use in the newbie queue will work here once they start posting.

--P

[BeardedCat]

Call of the Wild said that Bella's entrance looked awkward.
Bearded, as someone who's hydraed with bella what do you think

@Errant: I didn't think all that much either way. I just said it'll take me longer to sort Bella. We hydraed twice where we were town. Our hydra hasn't been scum yet, but hopefully someday. We worked well together. She was also town in the game I just finished modding a few days ago. I haven't seen her scumgame since June and that one was an off towngame for me the memory of which I've been trying to repress, but she was scum with BBT in that one.

I know that she tends to hang back a bit and doesn't post all that much; in the game I modded she had the second lowest post count despite living to the end. She's also the sort of player that I think will be easier for me to read based on how everyone else is reacting to her, but she's got a good head on her shoulders.

There's a reason our hydra has "baby we're a little different; there's no need to be ashamed" in our signature. We're both a bit awkward and it can take a while to get our heads into a game sometimes, so I'm not worried about her entrance.

I think we will be able to sort each other after a while; I think we both have a few tells on each other that we can use, but it's going to be more a body of work thing than an early on thing.

--P

[BeardedCat]

oh hey i'm 12 too. I have some boobs but my other head doesn't. hey did you know if you put the pen in the cap and take it out and put it back in and take it out again it's like the pen is having sex. I discovered this in science class and nobody understood why I was snickering at my pen.

who do you think is scum? i think the boy who sits behind me is scum because he called me a cunt and i didn't know what that meant so i repeated it to my mother to find out and i got in a lot of trouble. and it's all that boy's fault. i still don't know what it means

--P

[BeardedCat]

KISS method.. If this game continues on it's current track, that might be the only logical thing I can think of asking..

Okay. What are you getting out of people's answers to your questions, so far? Have you learnt anything useful about anybody's alignments?

How do you feel about people that just talk utter nonsense at the onset of a game? Do you feel it's just that? Or do you feel there is something more there?

This is the napkin stage of the game where we put napkins on our heads and pretend they're cloaks of invisibility. The scumteam can't read our comments if we write them with a napkin on our head. It's antitown to elaborate without napkins.

I have only recently figured out why we were talking about boobs myself, though, so don't feel too bad.

--P

[BeardedCat]

Okay, glad you're getting something out of it.


--P

[BeardedCat]

VOTE: call of the wild

For not sonic booming!!

I don't like this vote. I think Bella is a fine choice.

WolfTit, what about Bella looks the most awkward of the intro posts to you?
I don't disagree, but I also am unfamiliar with their earlygame. Are they usually smoother to join in?

What do you think is awkward about Bella's entrance?

Call of the Wild said that Bella's entrance looked awkward.
Bearded, as someone who's hydraed with bella what do you think

What do you think about Bella's entrance?

OK, that was the worst 5 pages I have ever read. I mean, that was awful. Is this what happens when I don't push an RVS wagon?

[BeardedCat]

^^^

~BBT

[BeardedCat]

Spiffeh replaces Aeronaut, effective now.

Welcome Spiff! I've seen you around but I don't know know you yet.

Okay, so Beardedcat is most likely town. I think I can see through Plot's scumgame if I see it.

Plot, have you sorted Scorpious yet?

Was I

that

bad as scum in n1628? T.T I mean, you're right, but my ego would have been happier if it had taken you longer to reach this conclusion.

Scorp looks about as scummy as he did in our game except this time I don't know for sure that he's town. But I think if he's scum it'll become apparent. Why, have you sorted him yet?

I had thought that nonesense talk usually ends around the first VC, but beardedcat's response makes me feel like there has been a big shift in the meta since I was last playing Mafia, and I'm sitting here looking at napkins with a quizzical look on my face.

The napkin thing was partially tongue in cheek. I'm looking forward to the end of the nonesense phase, myself.

--P

[BeardedCat]

VOTE: KT

[BeardedCat]

Sorry Mr teacher I was absent yesterday; I had a migraine. I’m here now and catching up.

Page 7!

I have a feeling some of this gibberish means something but until the meaning becomes apparent I'm not going to have anything to say about it. I'm mostly talking about dwlee/kt. Their argument seems to require some backstory to be decipherable.

BeardedCat, I like how you asked the questions that I wanted to ask Scorpius. What do you think of his noiseposting and behaviour right now? He's not done much since then besides asking dwlee if they're town since then. And is Scorpius reply on an emoticon giving information sufficiently logical/acceptable to you? I notice your reply to him is rather neutral, neither betraying acceptance nor vehement rejection - although do I detect disapproval in that?

Yes, you detect disapproval. Scorpious is one of my newbies from the game I ICed and even though that was a couple months ago I still feel like a mother hen towards all of them. I'm probably not going to react with vehement rejection even if I thought he was scum, though if I did have a strong scumread on him I'd be wagon driving, don't worry.

He's giving off vibes that he's in over his head, but this isn't his first game out of Rome. However, I think he's still new enough that it's understandable if it takes him a few extra pages to get his head into the game but he hasn't done anything particularly townie yet either. I'd like to see more vigorous scumhunting from him.


I know Bella played with him in one of his scumgames so I'm watching her interactions with him with interest.

I don't think he'll get anything useful out of the emoticon thing but what matters is whether he thinks he will get something useful out of it or not and how he applies what he gets out of it. What is more interesting is how dwlee responds to it.

Okay. What are you getting out of people's answers to your questions, so far? Have you learnt anything useful about anybody's alignments?

the emoticon usage in DWlee's "no" was something.. it's a reach at this stage,but it's been noted

But the gotta go fast person is town reading me but you didn't comment on that?

This response is kind of weird, because the defence is basically "but somebody's townreading me" which I don't understand what the point of saying that is or how it helps dwlee, but he isn't jumping up and down to discredit scorpious or putting him down. instead, he asks this strange non sequitur question. hmmmm.

I'm leaning town on BeardedCat and Metal Sonic,but that's really all I got right now.

why is sonic town?

--P

[BeardedCat]

Page 8!

Ah, I see bella got there first to ask scorpious why sonic was town and scorpious has already answered. you don't need to answer again, scorpious it's okay.

I actually didn't really feel the scumread on him in the game we played. I've played a second game with him though, in he was scumread very fast. He got lynched on day 1 and flipped scum.

I haven't sorted him yet, but I think he is not that hard to read.

I think he was largely scumread in our game for having too many scumreads and antagonising people, so he was more of a low charisma lynch than anything. He had too many people in his lynch pool and was so reluctant to townread people that I would have pushed him along those lines if I'd been town.

ok guys just remember everyone is guilty intill proven innocent so rn everyone is guilty regardless of role

yeah, no.

--P

[BeardedCat]

am i 11 yes *but my Bday is in 17 days so i might as well be 12*

OMG you guys are like a third my age do you know what a VCR is have you ever seen a landline telephone did you never have to put a pillow over the modem so that it wouldn't go SKREWWRRRRRR BREEEEEEE GRRRRRR DBBBZZZZZ KACHUNKKACHUNK and wake up your mom?

anyway i have will and anyways will bealeve that age doesn't matter in these type of games so you guys should think of me the same way you would think of someone whos 50

While that's true, it means that we shouldn't scumread you for your lack of gravitas.

I'm going to have to ask my hydra partner to lay off the sex talk with all the children in the room.

yeah, no kidding. let's all make an effort and not be the strangers on the internet this kid's parents warned him about.



okay, i'm caught up.

--P

[BeardedCat]

please expain all your votes

Sure. I saw a really great wagon so I hopped aboard!

VOTE: Metal sonic

really hasn't contributed to the game other than banter banter and more banter seems to me like a scum trying to stall the town

I think more than just MS can be accused of doing this...so why MS over anyone else?

I feel like one of Dwlee/KT should be scum. Leaning on KT.
Thoughts?

Why can't it be town v town? Why are you leaning scum on KT?

This is a horrible post. You need to explain how you ruled out it could be town vs town and then you need to tell me why you're asking for everyone's opinion on it.

Not as odd as you may think. Your interactions read as a TvS to me so one of you

Should

be scum.

Whether either are scum will be reveales as we go, and it is possible neither of you are, but the interactions feel unnatural and thus my stance stands.

What about the interactions feels unnatural?

I'm leaning town on BeardedCat and Metal Sonic,but that's really all I got right now. I think the DW/KT thing should be explored in more depth. I feel right now its the least graspy at straws line at this moment. Do you agree?

Scorpious, let's talk about your MS town read.

~BBT

[BeardedCat]

The dewlee / KT thing looks super awkward - as ari said, it looks like someone is faking it but im not sure who!

What makes it look awkward to you?

Gummy, that looks like an awful lot of words to say not a huge amount - top two town/scun reads right now?

Disagree, I thought gummy's posts regarding some of his thoughts/reads was decent.

There are a lot of people jumping on one of Dwlee/KT must be scum. I don't like this.

~BBT

[BeardedCat]

hullo. i'm caught up but I don't feel like commenting on every little thing, but basically:

not worried about

rory

at all. I like his tone.

townreading

gummybear

for depth of thought and probably because his playstyle is similar to mine.

sir bastion seems

townish

.

kinda townleaning this scumhunting fit of

kt

's.

spiffeh

seems okay. I liked his entrance well enough.

call of the wild

seem okay so far. they seem to be genuinely scumhunting, but the bar is higher for them.

dwlee

is scumhunting.

bella

's reads seem kinda shallow but I want to give her some space to get her head into the game, especially since her phone was broken.

errant

needs to be doing more.

ari

isn't making much of an impression on me either way.

a little worried about

sonic

. I find him hard to read because there are a lot of aspects of his usual playstyle that ping my scumdar and I have to keep supressing the pings with "but sonic's always like that" (for example all of the fluff and townreading himself, both of which i think are objectively scummy but not alignment indicative for him). I'll need to see more to decipher him I think.

scorpious

isn't scumhunting as vigorously as he did in his first game.

--P

[BeardedCat]

why am i being lynched? you say i'm all fluff LOOK AT THE PEOPLE WHO ALL THEY DID WAS LITTERLY TALK ABOUT SEX NOT TRYING TO PARTICAPAE IN THIS GAME AT ALLLL I MEAN WTF I TRY TO ALEAST MAKE AN EFFORT TO FIND SCUM AND ALL METAL SONIC AND CALL HAVE DONE IS TALK ABOUT SEX YET YOU THINK THEY ARE THE MOST TOWNIEST PEOPLE IN THE WORLD

anyway this post really let off some steam

This is so bad. The uncapped sentence at the end makes me think this is not genuine. It's also a 'How am I scum when X & Y are doing the exact same only so much worse' scum tell.

Anyway KT looks like exactly the type of player scum would push to mislynch imo

Really? Why is that? Do you think there are scum on the KT wagon? If so, who?

VOTE: gummybear

I can do this instead.

~SW

I had agreed with pretty much everything you guys had posted up until this. I don't get the vote at all.

~BBT

[BeardedCat]

216 just reminded me of when I IC in the newbie queue sometimes. Helpful, cause people to trust you, looks like you are contributing, but it doesn't do much in the whole scumhunting/investigative side of things.

~SW

I'm not seeing this at all - 216 felt solidly town to me. Especially the first couple of lines about the game getting on his nerves - that feels genuine.

i have a strong scum read on call for having 3 quarters of his game being sex based banter

You must be scum reading everyone else for shit-posting as well then...right?

~BBT

[BeardedCat]

also can someone explain to me in general why it's TvS cause i don't get that either

What

do

you get?

Do you have any reads you would like to share?

snip reads list

The timing of this reads-list is...icky. I don't really get the whole 'produce a random reads list from nowhere' and I feel scum are much more likely to do this to appear like their contributing and trying to gain reads.

wanna know somthing i really haven't tryed very much i have been focusing on school and other things i havn't really been able to re read the thread to get reads and such so fine scum read me but my meta is acting scum = town acting town = scum

Self-meta...can we lynch KT now?

~BBT

[BeardedCat]

VOTE: Metal Sonic

Let's see here.

CotW's voting is just getting crazy.

Why have you moved off of gummy and onto MS?

KT's posting was a little better on p10. It was also pretty ballsy of him if he's scum to go after MS or Rory - I'd expect newbscum to go after an easier looking target.

[BeardedCat]

The game related posts (especially 329) seem more like information instead of analysis to me. Might move my vote to Sonic.

Didn't you just defend Sonic like the page before?

Maybe bbt is easier to read

I know his scum game is really good but I feel more comfortable with him

MS, we appear to have similar thoughts this game.

Talk to me about CotW and Spiffeh.

~BBT

PEdit - OK, are you still scum reading Gummy?

[BeardedCat]

that post is exatly what i feel for this game right now i'm tired of being the one geting lynched when i have been atleast trying and other people havn't done anything helpful but everyone thinks they are the best bacuse you like them better? if i survive till D2 i will be so tryhard it won't even be funny but i probully won't since you think all the banter/trolls are the best people ever and me whos giving in an effort is scum for wait puting in a effort that you don't like? Wait wait wait so by all you peoples logic you father i only post banter then post reads you think is bad? Wow this just put all my faith in mafia scum players down the toilet i mean lynching someone for trying but not hard enogth? instead of going after the people who haven'y done anything to help people have already put them as town reads for doing abualty nothing I mean bella i can understand her phone broke shes having trouble geting on and off puting in good post but the people that havn't made 1 good read you completely ignore? i'm not even gonna go in to how scorpious has been playing.

I can sympathize with how you're feeling. It's one of the reasons I dislike meta but sometimes it's inevitable. What you're seeing is people trying to town bloc - they're trying to gain reads on players they have played with before/have experience with. Unfortunately for you (and the other newbies) you become isolated and are stuck on the periphery of the discussion until someone wants to engage you.

Bbt, thoughts on spiff's reads list?

I generally dislike unprompted reads lists and I can't say I have read it with any detail. I also disliked his very early WK of KT.

[BeardedCat]

What are your thoughts on Spiffeh, Titus?

~BBT

[BeardedCat]

No, we're not. I'm leaning town on MS and Plot is undecided.

Why is Spiffeh a lean scum?

~BBT

[BeardedCat]

how is MS town ...

MS, we appear to have similar thoughts this game.

~BBT

I hope this answers your question.

Can you answer mine now?

i have a strong scum read on call for having 3 quarters of his game being sex based banter

You must be scum reading everyone else for shit-posting as well then...right?

~BBT

PEdit - Not at all. In fact, if I were a meta user, I may even be so bold as to suggest that MS is try hard as scum and trolly as town. I don't think I have ever seen town!MS act aggressively. But, that's neither here nor there as meta is useless.

MS is a town read for approaching/seeing the game the same way I do.

[BeardedCat]

Why do you think MS sees the game the way you do as opposed to buddying?

a) Because I doubt he can read my mind

b) He can't be buddying me because I have barely posted.

I mean, I could see scum!MS buddying me for sure. But he hasn't even had the opportunity to buddy me yet so I'm confused as to why you're thinking that?

[BeardedCat]

I guess not anyone currently on the wagon but I am uncomfortable with Aristophanes and Scorpious waffling in the middle and could easily see them jumping on him as they are seemingly keeping their options open. Just the general attitude towards him is that no one is really on his side which is easy for scum to take advantage of.

I provided a reads list because I just finished reading the thread and actually had concrete opinions on a lot of people which is new for me and I wasn't around early on to actively form reads that way. If you don't like early reads lists why didn't you mention Scorpious'?

I am also uncomfortable with Aristophanes. You wanna lynch him?

Also, I did make a comment about Scorpious' reads-list. You must have missed it.

[BeardedCat]

I do it a lot..

If I wait too long..people say it was only done because it was prompted.If I do it before it's asked for; you say it looks like I'm just trying to appear like I'm contributing..

I invite you to ask for any clarification of that list. I will provide the asnwers..

It's the timing. Tell me, what is the purpose of posting a reads-list? Why do you do it?

You became a joint-top leading wagon because someone voted for you. After this, you produced a reads-list. Now my interpretation of your thought process there is 'Uh-oh, I'm gaining heat, what can I do to stop this wagon before it becomes something more serious.' Reads-list, for some reason people tend to inherently town read someone when they produce a reads-list.

~BBT

[BeardedCat]

OK, well being defensive isn't scummy. It never has been and never will be. Some defensiveness is scummy, but you need to know what you're looking for. Too many people blanket defensiveness as exclusively a scum trait. And it isn't.

You also shouldn't be trying to prove you're not scum - that's scummy. You need to show that you're looking for scum and you're not doing that for me. You were not scum hunting, you presented a reads-list out of thin air for no apparent reason.

Can you tell me why you feel the need to produce reads-lists?

~BBT

PEdit - Can we stop all this wall quoting please. Trim the quotes down. It makes the game more readable.

Picking this up.

Producing a reads-list is not scum hunting. What made you think it was?

[BeardedCat]

Creeper I said this with the most honourable of intentions for town

SHUT UP!

give other players a bit of goddamn room.

Hey there, anything else to offer?

[BeardedCat]

Figured it contributes to the overall state of the game. let's everyone know what I'm thinking without having to answer inane questions..

It does. Which is why reads-list look pro-town on the surface. Do you not think people can infer your reads from the way you speak about/to people?

~BBT

[BeardedCat]

I need to feel good about plot

If plot and CotW are both town then we might be able to become super powered town

I need to feel good about you too. But I don't yet. And I'm not sure how to fix it. Do you come with a checklist? Titus and Mastin have checklists. I started making a checklist for myself but I only have one thing on it so far and it was mostly tongue in cheek.

Also, to everyone towning sir bastion, can you break that dowb for me?

From me it's just some early towncred given for being one of the first to start moving away from the rvs circus and into scumhunting but I haven't been paying much attention to him yet.

Looking at him in ISO, I don't mind his scorpious push. Most of his posts seem to be complaining about the noise which is something I sympathise with strongly because this game would be only 2 pages long if we took out all the fluff. That may be affecting my read on him though it's a poor reason to townread someone.

I take it you're scumreading him?

So you're not concerned about MS's lack of aggression?

I am.

--P

[BeardedCat]

I'm actually finding myself agreeing with the kidlet. Scorp, it feels like you're not really scumreading KT and dwlee, you're annoyingreading them. You think they're annoying and you're equating that with them being scum. It feels like it's more of a policy lynch on your part than anything. Being annoying doesn't preclude someone from being scum; I tried to get my buddy policy lynched in mini 1675 because I found her annoying and I've seen other annoying people flip scum before, but annoying people tend to be annoying in every game they play in, even when they're town.

I don't think posting a reads list is that big of a sin; I did it myself on the very page my hydra partner complained about readslists, after all. I think that town or scum, it gives us information that we can use, either right now to sort you or after you're dead when we're looking for your partners if you flip scum, or if you're town if you're lynched or nightkilled then we can consider your reads anyway.

I just went and looked at my readslist and I'm trying to figure out why nobody's complained about mine when everyone's jumped on yours and it's hard for me to critique my own readslist because I wrote it, but I guess people have left me alone for it because I have more townreads than you do and I've taken a stance on most of them, even the people that are null for me.

What stands out the most is that you're null on 9 slots and you're not taking active steps to reduce that number. All that yellow is concerning. If you're truly null on all 9 of these, that means you don't have something to say about them, so you wrote a big post to say that you didn't have anything to say. That's scummy.

Anyway, I saw you get backed into a corner in a bad way in our last game when I was your IC and I'm seeing some parallels to that where you got into this rut of negativity and didn't know how to get out of it even though you were town there, so I'm going to try to engage you about this readslist and see if we can get something alignment indicative out of this.

Aristophones

-nulish here. Not much here. quiet. Most posts about the sex nonsense. few about the game.Still waiting on "sorting".

Can you think of any questions to ask Aristophanes that would help you sort him?

Beardedcat

- I hate reading hydras but this slot has been the most aggressive scum-hunting slot so far. Town lean

I am honoured to be your sole townread. Reading hydrae is a learned skill but in our case you have a little advantage because you've played with me (Plotinus) before, so one of us isn't a stranger to you and you can think about how I'm the same as last time and how I'm different and work out how much of that is playstyle and how much of that is alignment.

A hydra lets you have two chances at reading us and even if we disagree on stuff we're still both responsible for our slot's behaviour. I have some scumtells that I use for sorting hydra but since they're a list of things that I think are objectively scummy for hydra to do, I'm unlikely to do them as any alignment, which won't help you, so I guess you'll hear about it if COTW does something suspicious, otherwise hit me up post game. (Listing them now will just give COTW a roadmap of things to avoid doing in front of me.)

Bella

-Played with before.seems like their style.quick blasts.. I also agree with the assessment of KT/DW just looking off.null

Again, what can you do to change Bella from a null read into a scum-or-town read that you're confident in? You agree with her about something. Do you think the stance she's taken on KT/DW is a stance she's more likely to take as town or scum?

COTW

- Again,Hydra. I have trouble reading one person in a slot.let alone two. Two highly skilled players that could be super useful as town,or uber-dangerous as scum..null

What do you think of the way COTW is interacting with the other experienced player slots? What do you think of their approach to the newer players?

DW

-Trollish from the beginning.not scum hunting at all. Why the vote on me? no explanation? is it because I find you suspicious?Scum lean..Still have no idea what" rebuttal" I didn't answer..

KT

-I have to waste my time deciphering if this is just some kid being immature,or if he is awkward because he was handed a scum role and has no idea how to handle it. I despise his interactions with DW. I feel one if not both of them are scum..

I reordered these to put them together since you're viewing them as a unit and interacting with them as a unit. Your description here is part of why I think you're just annoyed with the two youngsters. Immaturity is probably going to come with the territory. If they're scum, we should lynch them. I feel like you're focusing too much on their ages though. They had a big fight in thread and now I think they've come through to the other side and are townreading each other. How has this development affected your reads on their slots?

EP

- 4 posts..three of which are "I don't get it.." could be lurking..nullish scum read that could easily be erased with some worthy content.

She's recently started posting more. How do you feel about her efforts?

Gummy

- wordy yes,but some good points. The only thing that piques me here is the defense of KT.Not sure which way that will go.null here..

This null feels different than the others. Am I correct in that you don't have a "he hasn't done enough" read on him, but rather you're sort of townreading parts of him and scumreading other parts of him? Is it mostly preflip associatives with KT that are holding you back from townreading him? Which points of his were good? Are there any points that were mostly good but you disagreed with a part of them?

Metal Sonic

- Useless? Yes.. Scum? Not convinced. I might just be hesitant to call him scum because I have looked at this posting style in the past as scum and have been wrong. nullish town,but admittedly might be gunshy here..

He's starting to settle in a bit now. What do you think of his efforts in that direction?

Rory

- played with before as scum.. One of the few I can base a porper meta on. Null until I see more..

Compare and contrast Rory's behaviour in this game so far with our previous one.

Sir Bastion

-not feeling the immediate jump to me as soon as I started to be questioned by others. Could be an experienced scum looking to park.. null scum lean

This is a good point. What do you think of the rest of his posts?

Spiffeh

- hasn't done much..nothing to really pull on at all here. null

He's done more since then. What do you think of him now?



I've had some success with trying to coach newer players into playing better in the past (particularly in n1603), and some failures (on my part, in open 607, I confbiased and missed some towntells in the newbie's response to my coaching), but I'm hopeful that if we goad the newer players into displaying some depth of thought they'll either be unable to because it's hard being scum when you're new, or they'll towntell, or they'll give their buddies away, or something.

pedit: wow this is a really long post and i am sorry about that but I don't know how to make it shorter.

--P

[BeardedCat]

Has your own reads list changed at all, plot?

Off the top of my head, not as much as I'd like it to have changed but I'm going to make some rice and reread the last 6 pages since I wrote my readslist and I'll get back to you.

--P

[BeardedCat]

@Scorpious: I'm glad.



@Errant regarding my readslist:

Spoiler: i had to do all this thinking out loud to figure out how my readslist changed.

sonic

I can't elaborate on this but I feel like sonic is hitting the right notes with how he's approaching trying to read my slot. I don't always guess right what a person's read on my slot should be; that's a bit too much theory of mind for me, but it's a good sign that he's behaving the way i expect him to in that regard. or maybe my ego is just happy with his approach but I've noticed the things that Titus has noticed about him too, that he doesn't seem to be aggressively sorting people so I'm still fretting about him.

spiffeh

I like spiffeh's reads list. I agree with most of it and the parts where we disagree (someone is going to ask me to elaborate here and i'm going to say "the parts that don't match mine") I can understand where he's coming from? I don't think "he's produced a readslist therefore he must be town", but I like the way he's showing his work, the stances he's taking make sense. His readslist contains attacks on his scumreads that I think are more than surface level attacks and he follows up on them later I seem to remember. I think it's fine that some of his reads are gut at this stage.

I know BBT dislikes spiffeh's KT stance (he thinks it's whiteknighting) and I think he's townreading Titus for the wrong reasons but this is the sort of thing I can't untangle without flips.

Spiffeh's readslist is working for me for now because several of the points that he brings up are new points. It's not just a regurgitation of everybody else's reads on everybody else.

Posts like 479 from spiffeh are cheeky if he's scum.

kit and dwlee

I feel like following Dwlee's lead on KT because Dwlee has the most experience with him, and I think aggressively sorting somebody the way they tried to sort each other only to come out of it with a townread instead of a lynch is townish. I like dwlee's sarcasm in 389. I think town is far more likely to say shit like wait i thought you were crumbing masons because that's the sort of thing scum note in their private notes to bring up in their PT later (or right away if daytalk). It's antitown to point out other people's crumbs and he should try to stop doing that but I don't think he's scum for it.

Bella

Bella hasn't talked to me to yet. but she says she'll be home tomorrow night so maybe we can sync then?

scorpious

My read on scorpious is a work in progress.

errant

Errant has started posting. Errant if you want the numbers to link to the post you're talking about do this:

Code: Select all

[post]78[/post]

It will look like 78 and will following your train of thought easier.

I'm okay with her push on Rory because it seems nuanced enough. I'm townreading him for personal reasons but watching multiple people approach a slot in different ways and come to various conclusions helps my own reads. If someone gets to the same place I'm at through different means, that can be a confirmation. So I'm curious to see what'll come out of this and I don't mind that she's voting my top townread. I think also that it shows initiative since if i recall correctly nobody was voting Rory at the time.

gummy

I'm still okay with gummy and the questions they're asking.

sir bastion

I like the depth of Sir Bastion's push on scorpious, if not the timing of it in 493.

dwlee

,

spiffeh

a little

COTW

,

errant

,

sonic

,

scorpious

unchanged:

rory

,

gummy

,

kt

,

bella

a little

sir bastion

,

ari

something like that. Ari's down a little because he prodged so much in open 607.

nobody's changed categories, though. it's just fluctuations in read strength.

fuck i just wrote another wall.

pedit:

Remember that Plotinus is

in

capable of

walls

brevity

regardless of alignment

FTFY

And stop calling me new. In my most recent completed game I got all of my town reads right, had a scum read on one scum and a null on the other on a 48 hour d1.

Go you! Better than me. In my last completed town game I was left alive as uncounterclaimed mason from day 2 until day 6, 3p LYLO because my reads were so bad but then I got my shit together and voted correctly.

Kinda townreading this refusal to play the newbie card.


okay it's almost 10pm and I'm running out of the steam for the night and the ability to make thoughts happen is leaving me but I like what i'm seeing so far on this page.

--P

[BeardedCat]

@Sir Bastion: I'm still awake. Basically, he was at L-4 when you posted the case and quickly after he was put at L-2 and I had noticed you didn't vote him in that post. But I just went and looked at the votecount and the reason you didn't vote him was you were already voting him! That changes things. The timing is fine if you were first and you were just resuming your case or continuing to drive a wagon you were already on. I lost that thread in all the noise.

Even if you weren't first it wouldn't be terrible terrible because in order to lynch someone we need 6 people who aren't first to agree with 1 person who is first. But it felt like the push happened right around the time when thread temperature wise a scorpious lynch seemed pretty viable and it lookedl ike you were capitalising on that instead of just resuming your earlier post after a distraction.

Retracted.

--P

[BeardedCat]

*resuming your earlier

push

EBWOP. can't words anymore tonight.

--P

[BeardedCat]

I'll circle back to scorpious later.

Despite all the posting, I'm still not townreading BeardedCat. It's kind of a gut bad feeling. I'll have to look into them more.

~SW

Please do. My wiki is up to date. Since this is your first time playing with me, some of it may be playstyle stuff.

plotinus i say for the sake of your slot get bbt on the line

i am going to destroy you if i cannot get a townread on him within 72 hours


this is a warning

Looking forward to it. Quoted this for him in our hydra PT.

Plot, if I plus minused you, what would I find?

Titus, if I VCAed you on day 1 without flips what would I find?

I never +- my own slot and you always pretend you're town in your VCA. But if you did numbers me then off the top of my head, if you separated BBT and me into the two very different people that we are, you'd find two separate reads progressions on every slot in the game yet they still make sense from our own perspectives. If you smooshed us together into one reads progression it'd look more jumpy because we're only in strong agreement on 7 slots, but I expect we'll come to stronger agreement as the game moves on.

However, my reads progression is always going to make sense to myself because I know where I'm going with something and why I'm doing it. If you're confused, you could ask me a more specific question?


It's too early in the game for me to be numbersing other slots because all I have to go on so far is whether there is a reads progression or not and that's just a low bar of "does everyone meet this one fairly easy criteria or not". And half the players doesn't even have enough posts so I'd be getting lots of false positives.

Btw Plotinus' posts give me twinge my scumdar but I BBT sounded town so I'm conflicted. I really don't like Plot's justification for catapulting me up to a town read.

I was already townreading you if you look at my prior readslist. It's just the townread strengthened over the last few pages.



I don't know how to interact with sonic without it being about out of game stuff right now. I have a feeling he has the same trouble with me. I expect that to change at some point. I've been trying for an entire week to think of how to talk to him and sort him and help him sort me and I keep coming up blank.

I'm trying to treat him more the way I treated goodmorning in battlestar galactica (I gave her some space to figure out that I was town in her own time and accepted her wariness and didn't try to challenge it and allowed myself to read her based on other things but it was page 200 and she had an ISO I could read so it was easier) than the way I treated not_mafia in micro508 (I got paranoid that he was afraid of my towngame, not my scumgame, even though that made no sense given his experience with me and tunnelled him into the ground.)

--P

[BeardedCat]

Also, @Silverwolf, if you do metadive me, you should take into account whether i started a game or replaced into it because my day 1 play differs from my day 7 play for obvious reasons and I tend to only replace into games that I think my presence would improve them and I don't have that luxury in games that I start in. You can read replacement games too but I think you'll get more out of games I started in.

The Rainbow Unicat games (open 607 and micro 508) are 2 for the price of one because I was hydraing with bella there and my BBT hydra played in micro 507 back in early August if you're interested in that. n1628 was a scum game I ICed in which Rory (as gnomeo) and scorpious played. mini 1704 was my most recent scumgame but n1615 is still the one i'm most proud of. I don't have a single towngame that I started in that I'm proud of, but I replaced in fairly early in n1603 and I feel i did well enough there.

--P

[BeardedCat]

@Sir Bastion: I don't mind the wagon on us and I understand it; it's paranoia backlash from a recently completed game in which I played well as third party and nevermind that being a third party is almost like being town except you can't win with the town because you have to scumhunt just as hard to eliminate the opposing scumteam before they crosskill you. It was my reads that they sheeped to victory after they lynched me, so I was like an auxilliary backup townie if anything.

Even if I'm difficult to read I'll be easy enough to sort in the late game so people shouldn't worry so much on day 1. It's premature. But I understand it because Sonic townread me all game, so he's paranoid of me now. Titus modded it.

BBT is busy with offline stuff. We don't have any way of contacting each other outside of mafia scum, so if he's not online then I can't make him magically appear online. He'll appear when he does. I'm the more active head in all of my hydrae; 75% of the posts in my hydra with bella were me in both games we played and we were town there. BBT will show up when he does and you can sort us based on his posts or mine or a combination or however you like. It is what it is.

(psst: BBT is ignoring this game too. vote him back!)

Lying about my other head's activity levels is scummy, sonic. BBT is alive in two games. He's also moderating a game. The last time he posted anywhere on the site that I can see is a post in our hydra PT on Thursday, just a few minutes after he posted in this game. If you sitesearch him, his last public post on the site is that hydraslip in this game: http://forum.mafiascum.net/search.php?a ... 9&sr=posts.

When I was active lurking for a couple days after mastin made me cry (and because you guys were massclaiming while my hydra partner was on v/la. it was half the one thing half the other), I didn't post anywhere on site except to provide vote counts for my players in the game I was modding. BBT hasn't even posted a vote count elsewhere in that timeframe. He's really offline for reals.

VOTE: Metal Sonic L-6

The reason I've been so weird about sonic this game so far is that I didn't know how to talk to or about him without talking about WiFoM City. And I was still salty from what happened and I didn't know how to sort him without it being a rematch and I don't want it to be a rematch where I lynch him just because I'm mad about being lynched in some other game. I want to lynch him because he's scum if he is. But the way he's misrepresenting BBT's activity levels is bad.

I'm going to make coffee and then I'll circle back to other points that have been made recently.
--P

[BeardedCat]

You said "he's ignoring this game" as if it were only this game that he's ignoring. he's ignoring the entire website. perhaps he's ignoring the rest of the internet too. And tyou did it in response to someone saying that Ari was posting elsewhere so it sounded like you were saying that BBT was posting elsewhere but he's not.

will reply to longer post but still haven't coffeed yet or breakfasted.

--P

[BeardedCat]

He's busy with work. This isn't the BBT we remember from the summer who was alive in 10 games and keeping up with all of them. This is a BBT who is only alive in 2 games at a time and is still not very active in any of them. He prodged a lot as town in his recently completed newbie game, sometimes for an entire week in a row there's only "prodge prodge prodge".

But you're correct that this isn't a point that I find interesting debating. He's ignoring all his games. He likes being scum more than he likes being town. Maybe that means we're town? Maybe it means he's busy in real life?

Spoiler: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Both! It means both of those things!

Neither of us are the kind of player for whom activity is indicative of alignment so this is pointless. Your other post is more interesting. I'm happy to talk about why I was blatantly coaching scorpious and I will in my next post.

--P

[BeardedCat]

Nah I want ErrantParabola to stop being ignored. What do you think about him?

I don't have much of an opinion on him. I did feel like he was skirting around the edges of the game and not getting too involved but his posting in the last couple of pages has been much better.

Null on spiffeh, can't remember anything he posted

In that case, you should ISO him and tell me what you think.

I share your concerns with the CotW slot. Their voting so far has been awful.[/quote]

I find it interesting that KT puts up this image of him and Dwlee attacking Scorpius together when earlier they seemed to be at each others throats.

Why is it 'interesting'? What do you think it means?

What's also interesting to me is how everyone who has raised points against him or is voting him is considered scummy on his list (Sir Bastion, myself, dwlee and KT) although dwlee and KT at that point are honestly easy scumtargets. Bearded, any thoughts on this?

Not really, no. Being defensive is a null tell.

~BBT

[BeardedCat]

I mean come on page 18 is a thing of beauty. Just look at it, Scorpious is clearly goading creeper to continue picking at him and when

I tell creeper to shut up and go away Scorpious straight away shuts up too

, but he's not gone cause he pops up again when Dwlee posts, but if neither of them are around, goodbye Scorpious.

I mean for god sake I ask what is the point if you are scumhunting in telling a player (who you think is scum) that you are just going to treat them like they dont exist? Thats intentional antagonizing of a player who has been shown to be immature not for information but for noise, a skirt to hide behind.

I think you're misrepping Scorpious pretty hard here.

Scorpious was clearly trying to disengage from KT - I feel he made this abundantly clear. Yes, he was rude and he could have phrased it in a better way, but he quite clearly did not want to engage with KT. I really don't understand the bold either, if Scorpious was so obviously goading KT why would he not just continue even though you asked KT to shut up? Like, you would want Scorpious to stop as well...right?

[BeardedCat]

So the background for my relationship with scorpious is that I was scum IC in his first newbie game: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?t=62660

I actually felt pretty sorry for the newbies in that game because I could see the mark I'd left on them in their subsequent games and most of them came out of it scumreading people with playstyles like mine even though usually when I see someone playing like my scum meta, they flip town. But I was actually struggling a lot that game myself, couldn't get into the town bloc and I was having offline problems that were distracting me and everyone was scumreading me for the wrong reasons and as a result, I couldn't reach out to scorpious and help him the way I would have helped if I were town.

Scorpious was behaving in that game a lot like he was behaving in this one. He was struggling and I couldn't afford to do anything about it because I was up against a bunch of obvtown newbies that I couldn't pretend to scumread with a straight face and I had very slim pickings for mislynch candidates. There were two viable mislynches, scorpious and bananacucho and I couldn't afford to lose scorpious as a mislynch so I let him drown and didn't even toss him a lifejacket to see whether he could swim to shore or not. and then I nightkilled banana because I'm stupid.

Enough backstory.

I'm not liking BeardedCat's 519 - it pings me. Their hydra is incredibly good at scum, so it sounds like coaching to gain towncred.

Coaching to gain towncred? At a time when there are 0 votes on me and I'm widely townread (except for an undercurrent of worry from you and Titus because you know i'm not incompetent)? I was expecting to take flak for that post. It was blatant coaching and I was expecting people to either start worrying that we were scum together or that I was whiteknighting him. I've never seen anyone get towncred for coaching outside of a newbie game and even within it, people mistrust it. Also, given my history with scorpious where I was a

scum

IC and coached the newbies fairly evenly early on (too well, most of them obvtowned in response ), I wouldn't expect scorpious to instatrust me for it either. And if it didn't make him worried about me in spite of our history together, I expected somebody to tell him I was buddying him in case he didn't know and you did.

Anyway, from the perspective of a townie who doesn't know either of our alignments the situation could be one of these:

• I'm scum and scorpious is scum too. If this were the case I would totally have just bussed him and be done with it. Even if he was the only power role/best power role on the scumteam, perhaps especially then because I'd be hoping someone would write me off as town for driving a lynch on my roleblocker/rolecop/strongman/godfather/whatever. As scum, I try to do several "why the fuck would scumPlot do that" things per game. Your response to one of those things is now in my signature on my main!
  
• I'm scum and scorpious is town. If this were the case I don't know why I would derail the day 1 newbie lynch when the lynch of the day is probably going to be one of the other chaotic/newbie/low charisma players anyway and with those 3 categories I've just described almost everybody here and mathematically speaking I'd be putting one or more of my buddies in danger, unless I was scum together with exclusively experienced players which would be super awesome but only about a 1 in 100 chance because there aren't many experienced players in this group. And if that were the case, I still don't know why I'd care about one newbie lynch over another.
  
• I'm town and scorpious is scum. I expect to be able to realise this as a result of my coaching because I have successfully caught scum with the unorthodox "teach them how to obvtown and then watch all the newbie town succeed while the newbie scum don't manage it" method.
  
• I'm town and scorpious is town and I have meta reasons for believing this but I want him to be able to show the rest of the town that he's town too.

You're basically arguing that I've done this as a towncred grab when I haven't been given any towncred for it at all and I knew going into it that I was going out on a limb at serious risk to myself. You can tell that I knew that when I was writing it because of my last paragraph where I telegraphed what I was doing.

I've had some success with trying to coach newer players into playing better in the past (particularly in n1603), and some failures (on my part, in open 607, I confbiased and missed some towntells in the newbie's response to my coaching), but I'm hopeful that if we goad the newer players into displaying some depth of thought they'll either be unable to because it's hard being scum when you're new, or they'll towntell, or they'll give their buddies away, or something.

1) Trying to defuse the situation and subtly create a feel of double standards with the why are people picking on Scorp's readslist but not mine line of thought.

I don't feel that it's a double standard. My readslist was unremarkable and that's why it wasn't remarked on. His readslist had problems with it. I thought it was really funny that my hydra partner made a readslists are scummy case on the same page that I had posted a readslist, but I didn't think it was a double standard. I did think that scorpious didn't know what was wrong with his readslist and why he was getting flak for it. I think that people for the most part avoid doing things they think are objectively scummy regardless of their alignments.

I used my own readslist as a comparison point. I think nobody gave me flak for my readslist because it wasn't a scummy readslist. The timing of it was fine, it let people know where I was at, I had the right number of town reads and the right number of scumreads, it wasn't a sheep of popular opinion, it was ordered town to scum to make it easy to follow, it had concise explanations for why people were where they were that I could have expounded upon if asked. There was absolutely nothing wrong or alarming about my readslist and nobody was alarmed when I posted it. It's not a double standard; my readslist was objectively not scummy. But I didn't expect someone who had written a scummy readslist to know why his readslist was scummy and why mine wasn't.

The tone of this post is very conciliatory, admittedly because of his previous IC experience with Scorp and everything. But it seems to me a little too much to offer in terms of depth and at just the right time too where Scorp has given up, especially when Bearded is not an IC in this game.

He's still my newb. It is true that I'm not the IC in this game. I wish I were IC in this game. My goal is to roll innocent child in like a large or something so I can pretend to be a scum IC. If people are obvcrumbing I'll post stuff like

IC POST

Please breadcrumb your roles legibly in your opening posts to help the scumteam know who to nightkill

but if I see a newer player drowning I'll give actually good advice, too.

It seems almost designed to earn the trust of the player.

This won't work against a player whose only prior experience with me is with my scumgame.

Most suspiciously, in 532, he shows that his read on Scorp is still as scummy, claiming it's a work in progress and that he's a little less scummy (but doesn't state why).

It was almost bedtime and I hadn't read his posts in depth yet and wasn't done engaging with him. I'd moved him up to a greener shade of brown because I was liking what I was seeing so far but I wanted to actually read the posts, not just skim them before I committed to an opinion on him. I also was not sure whether he was done posting or not. I still intend to circle back to him and engage him some more but yesterday was busy for me. It was a work in progress because I hadn't gotten to it yet. I still haven't, but I will.

I'm finding it hard to believe that the coaching post would come from a town mentality towards a slot they are scumreading. The only thing I can think of is that it's a reaction test to fish for reactions from Scorp and the rest. With the way the post has been engineered and timed, I don't think it's a good reaction test on Scorp's alignment - as both scum and Town, his reaction would be the same - be grateful, and then follow the coached points.

You can call it a reaction test if you like. I think it's something like a reaction test, yes. It's a thing that I do sometimes that has worked for me in the past. I'll go find examples.

n1603 - I enter with a series of coaching type questions for every single slot in the game. It's blatant coaching. The town newbies do really well with it. The results were:

pistachi0n

started looking around outside of her

BBT

tunnel,

lostaway

obvtowned herself, I don't remember the other town newbies because this was back in May but they also did fine,

Annadog

completely and utterly failed to even pretend to scumhunt even in response to coaching. I drove a wagon on her buddy (an SE) that day and we lynched her the next day.

n1615 - I enter with coaching question I used on

Annadog

but this time aimed at all of the people who were having trouble scumhunting. The response was that the town newbies learned how to scumhunt and my scumbuddy completely failed in a really obvious way and I was kicking myself for the coach all the newbies idea. It was a mistake. But the newbies became better players and I won anyway (this is the only scumgame I've ever one btw) so it was worth it.

(not linking, but in twilight 6 of We Didn't Playtest This,

Titus

reached out to me when I was a flailing newbie who had no idea what to do in a large and it was her advice that helped me dig myself out of the easy newbie mislynch category.)

In n1628 I was IC so lots of coaching all around there.

open 607 - I was an uncounterclaimed mason and I did some blatant coaching of

Lalendra

. but it was a bad time for me and even though in retrospect she did obvtown in response to the coaching, I missed it and I helped mislynch her later. It's not foolproof but I think I've learned from that experience too.

I might have reached out to Bulba in WiFoM city but I don't remember. I don't think I did the coaching thing but my ISO has over 500 posts and I'm lazy.

Anyway, the point is that my coaching is a thing that I do sometimes as different alignments but I've had somewhat more luck with doing it as town given that it's backfired on me a couple times as scum because it works. The trick is in guessing what skill level a player has and then asking them to do something that will be too hard for them if they are scum, but that they will be able to do okay at if they're town.

Of course the player will respond regardless of their alignment and try to do what the experienced player asked them to, but I think town will do a better job at it than scum will. I need to think about scorpious' response some more (and actually read it instead of skim it) and it's also a reaction test in progress because I need to see how he goes on to interact with other players.

What I'm sure of is that as a result of what I've done, if he's town, everyone will know and we'll have a better reason than "he played poorly in some other game too". And if he's scum, I'm the queen of associatives so the more I can get him talking the better.

I have one completed game with him where I identified him as scum very easily. Don't think this is the case.

That's good to hear.

okay fuck this was really long again I'm sorry, but sonic and I need to hash this out.

--P

[BeardedCat]

I dont necessarily think the reads list is scummy, i think it doesnt go eitherway.

You say things like this a lot.

Can you give me 3 thoughts on the game that contain a decent amount of certainty in them?

BBT is doing what he did to me in another game and I'm 90% sure he flipped scum

Let's talk about this. What am I doing? If you're going to try and meta read me, you better do it correctly.

plotinus i say for the sake of your slot get bbt on the line

I'm here. What do you wanna talk about?

VOTE: beardedcat

No. Stop it.

I really don't like Plot's justification for catapulting me up to a town read.

What don't you like about it?

can me+CotW+spiffeh put votes on plotinus? lets see wwhat happens.

No. Stop it.

VOTE: BeardedCat

~SW

Umm, what are you doing?

~BBT

[BeardedCat]

Assume 644 by bbt but please confirm

Confirmed.

[BeardedCat]

Gdi fine my EP vote isn't doing anything anyway BECAUSE EVERYONE IS IGNORING HIM

VOTE: BeardedCat

Well that's not scummy at all.

Why are you worried about me so much? I am not worried about you as I am pretty certain Sonic is scum.

You are? I felt fairly good that he was town before he started voting for us. Is it still the whole 'lack of aggression thing' because that's pretty weak.

@bbt - why aren't ms and rory easy targets?

Because Rory was picking up a fair few town reads and MS was looking town and had no wagon or momentum.

(psst: BBT is ignoring this game too. vote him back!)

You should know better than this.

PEdit - LOL, no. I have already reached out to you and you didn't wanna talk. Your recent posting is scummy. Wanna talk about that?

~BBT

[BeardedCat]

@Sonic: 644 was BBT, 645 was me (Plot)

@SW: I really wish I could help the long posts; I know they're a problem for people. Sometimes I can use area tags to break it up? I could spoiler parts of it, or I could put a tl;dr at the bottom or longer posts?

The tl;dr of 645 was that coaching is one of my scumhunting tools that I use sometimes for sorting newbies. I've done it as both alignments but it usually backfires on me when I'm scum because too many people stop looking mislynchable in response. The links go to posts where I coached people in other games.

I have two modes, verbose and cryptic and cryptic mode is really, really incoherent. I'm working on getting better at communicating but it's a work in progress.

--P

[BeardedCat]

Never misrepresented him. he was never here.

You made it sound like my inactivity was scummy and I should be getting votes because of it. That's scummy because you know activity is not alignment indicative for me.

he has been ignoring this game since the start of this game.

No, I haven't. I have been posting when I can and I can't do much more than that.

Btw, there is exactly one scum in CotW/Spiffeh.

PEdit - MS, your reasons for scum reading Plot are bad because, well, we're town.

I tried to reach out to you about Spiffeh and you shut me down.

[BeardedCat]

Well I forgot about spiffeh and I forgot your reach out


Not obvious enough I guess

How much more obvious do you need it?

[BeardedCat]

I'm not going to speak for Plot - she can (and has) spoke for herself.

PEdit - Voting SW. Voting.

PEdit x2 - I'm not re-quoting. You can find it yourself or we can leave it here.

[BeardedCat]

I have reasons to scumread plot

because of WiFoM city but I might as well have been town there; I drove lynches on all of groupscum except the one I crosskilled and you guys sheeped my case on the last scum to victory after you lynched me.

I played that game pretty much exactly the way I would have played it as town except for not derailing mastin's and quoth's scumread on me earlier than I did because I needed it as a spare bulletproof vest.

If you're seeing similarities between my play there it's either playstyle or it's towntells. or if you're speculating that i'm third party again i'm going to wonder if your scumteam is smaller than expected.

Beardedscum/3P

beardedTown but not town beard!

--P

[BeardedCat]

The two quick votes that followed MS' vote.

I just realised that I was thinking town!MS when I swrote that but now I'm not so sure.

I don't think two scum would jump on our wagon so early so I think we're looking for exactly one scum in MS/CotW/Spiffeh.

[BeardedCat]

Lol ok that was mildly effective

I'm not using wifom city to read you. You might as well be town there. I poe you that was all. Salamence wax the one who caught you.

ok, then i don't know why you're scumreading me.

The only thing that I got from wifom city was that you are good as scum. That is it.

I know BBT

So your slot has higher standards

Thank you

I'll let you two talk things through because I'm online more often than BBT is, so you can talk to me at another time.

pedit: @SW I am really good at signing and I even sign on my main by mistake sometimes so if a post isn't sign it is 99.9% BBT but I know it's confusing with both of us being on at the same time so I'm going to go do something else for a while.

--P

[BeardedCat]

I was town reading MS but his push on us is so bad.

CotW have had awful voting all game but I have to be careful here because I think I have scum read Titus every single time we have played together.

Spiffeh had that weird WK of KT early game and the unprompted reads list.

PEdit - Wait, you're town reading CotW now? What happened?

PEdit x2 - Always have and always will. I know for a fact that if either of MS/CotW are scum then we will be priority for them to eliminate. The fact both of you are pushing us (MS/CotW) whilst scum reading each other is really weird and it's pinging me hard.

I think Ari has a good chance of being scum - I couldn't care less about the speed of his wagon.

~BBT

[BeardedCat]

I just wrote a post that explained my scumread on you -___-

and I rebutted it so in my head you should now be townreading me already but I get that's not how it works. catch you later.

--P

[BeardedCat]

So why are you calling it town posting if you think it's coming from a scum slot?

[BeardedCat]

~BBT ^^^

[BeardedCat]

Right, but the way you phrase it makes it sound like you're town reading the slot.

You should make your mind up because you're hedging pretty badly right now and that's scummy.

[BeardedCat]

People should start voting MS by the way.

I'm pretty sure he is scum.

~BBT

[BeardedCat]

No, hedging is scummy.

What you're doing is splitting your read on a slot. You're playing dumb despite being a smart player. You're trying to show that you're town reading the CotW slot in order to try and gain momentum on our wagon. It's a win-win for you.

If it goes through, which it won't, you revert back to your Titus is scum read. If it doesn't go through, you fall back on your Titus is scum read. You say that the Titus reads takes precedence - well Titus and SW got the same role PM which means you

should

be scum reading that slot. If you're scum reading that slot, you should not be pushing the same wagon they're pushing.

Your thought process is seriously lacking the town logic I would expect to see.

PEdit - MS, don't play dumb with me. I'll lynch you so fucking fast.

Why are you acting like I have given no reasoning for my shift in read of you?

~BBT

[BeardedCat]

^this is a good line of questioning

Please talk to me about how this phrasing means I am townreading the slot

OK, let's talk.

Tell me, why would you highlight 'good questioning' that you think is coming from scum?

[BeardedCat]

HAHAHAHAHA you piece of shit

I'm townreading them precisely for the sole reason that SW is sheeping ME on my scumread on you

You think you can get me lynched? No Bueno. I'll get YOU lynched

MS, you 1v1 with me and you end up getting lynched. It's as simple as that. I'm growing ever more confident in you being scum.

You were town reading the SW head way before she sheeped you onto me - don't give me that bullshit.

Because it helps me get a read on both of your slots. Simple as that.

The fact that I haven't amassed 5 votes on them yet proves otherwise.

How does that comment help you get reads? Walk me through it like I'm 5.

Bottom line means what?

[BeardedCat]

You're not explaining how you're comment helps you gain reads on our slots.

Try again?

[BeardedCat]

funny titus cause im townreading SW moer than you

Not long after you voted us.

As I said, looking for support from the wagon by trying to show a town read on the slot.

[BeardedCat]

The comment says asks you why you aren't looking at the wago speed of other wagons. And ask why you assume the wagon on you can't be all town. It looks at your thought process I don't remember your response.

Well, I responded so you should go look that up.

You're STILL dodging the questions though.

1. How does that comment help you get reads? (Don't tell me what the comment was, don't tell me how you read it, tell me how it helps you get reads)

2. Why would you highlight good questioning from a scum slot?

[BeardedCat]

Wrong. Looking for town sharing same thought process as I do.

Still waiting for you to provide quotes to prove your argument

I don't know what you're talking about here.

[BeardedCat]

But your scum read took precedence! You're acting like your town read was taking precedence and that's why you're OK with them.

Your thought process is all over the place here. I'm done.

MS is scum and votes should be piling on accordingly.

~BBT

[BeardedCat]

You have still yet to prove your wrong point about me townreading SW prematurely

funny titus cause im townreading SW moer than you

Not long after you voted us.

As I said, looking for support from the wagon by trying to show a town read on the slot.

You must have missed this.

~BBT

[BeardedCat]

Reading ish

Even if I'm difficult to read I'll be easy enough to sort in the late game so people shouldn't worry so much on day 1. It's premature. But I understand it because Sonic townread me all game, so he's paranoid of me now. Titus modded it.

This implies that you think MS is town, as you're saying he is paranoid of you being scum. But you vote for him later in the same post.

Paranoia can be faked. Him displaying it is a good sign and I'd be worried if he didn't display any, but I'm not treating it as a 100% towntell either. scum sonic would know that i would expect him to act a certain way and try to act that way. There's also the flip side that I was a third party in that game and sonic and I worked together to own the groupscum, so if he's scum he could be paranoid that I'll catch him.

Also, if my friends are town then I want to be able to work together with them after we sort each other. I'm remembering a quote from MathDino (I think, I just spent a while trying to find it again and couldn't) in Refraction where he said something like always talk to people as if they were townreads and about them as if they were scumreads and I really liked that and it's something I've been trying to emulate since then.

It doesn't give you pause that the people who know sonic best are all scumreading him?

This looks like OMGUS disguised as a reason to me. I think you're panicking

nah. there's nothing to panic about. The three of us need to sort each other and we're doing that.

Or he hasn't been tracking BBT's every move on the site and has only noticed his absence this game? Which is an extremely plausible possibility. This line of suspicion is ridiculous.

or it's not arduous to check whether what you're saying is correct by click on a person's name and site search them quickly before making an accusation against them.

It basically boiled down to "I like his readslist" but he repeated that like seven times in seven different ways and made it as long as possible when one sentence would have sufficed. That might be his posting style but the amount of walls I'm seeing that have paragraphs of filler don't sit well with me.

when it looks like i'm repeating something across multiple sentences, i usually think i'm saying something different in each sentence.

It would be nice if people would try to meet me halfway on communication stuff. I am doing the best I can to communicate as concisely and coherently as I can and am avoiding posting when I can tell I'm not languaging well. That is all I can do.

I'm going to bed.

--P

[BeardedCat]

it's not inaccurate, but it's misleading, especially because of the timing of the post, coming in response to somebody else posting elsewhere but ignoring the thread. it carries the implication that BBT is doing the same thing. Someone else is posting elsewhere but ignoring the thread. BBT was ignoring elsewhere and ignoring the thread.

that's not the whole reason we're voting him though. there's more to it. general behaviour stuff and interaction stuff and tonal things. but going to bed because if i try to explain it'll be 3am before i'm done and i'm tired.

--P

[BeardedCat]

I know if I was scum in this game (spoiler alert: I'm town), with the amount of noise and easy targets, I would also be happily doing everything BC/myself is doing right now.

Why?

Trusting MS' assertion and BC's own admissions as well I believe that BC especially Plot is an incredible scum player, I find myself getting more uneasy with the slot.

I have actually only won one scumgame.

This is burden of proficiency and it's unpleasant to be on the receiving end of. You know who else are good at being scum? Metal Sonic, Call of the Wild, and Bellaphant. Possibly some other people too but I don't have experience with them to say either way. If you lynch the four of us just for being good at mafia, town will be in bad shape, because we are all also decent at being town and those of us who are town will be an asset.

Plot head was undecided but willing to give MS space.

This was 100% about not knowing how to talk to Sonic without bringing in stuff from an ongoing game that has since completed.

(I take the listing L-6 after him when you haven't done so previously for any votes as an indicator of seriousness.)

This is something I saw Vi do in a game I spectated and a habit I'm trying to get into with the goal of doing it everytime I vote but I still forget half the time. But it was also a serious vote.

Am I to believe that you seriously believe that a player that you think is as good as MS would do a weakscum play like trying to accuse someone of posting elsewhere while not posting here?

Yes.

And a hydra, no less.

I don't see how this makes a difference either way.

Self meta and what you would have done in the situation is pretty much null to me - nobody knows you well enough to dispute that.

Bella has hydraed with me in the past, she might know me well enough. A few other people know that I've never yet needed to lie as scum (Titus, Rory maybe, Bella, BBT but he doesn't count, Metal Sonic if he was paying attention). But it's good to treat it as null.

After all, scumPlot tries to do unexpected and inexplicable things - so if he does the obvscum thing like coaching, that would point to not scumPlot right? Except. scumPlot tries to do unexpected and inexplicable things - maybe this time doing the obvscum is unexpected. It's circular reasoning and doesn't really explain anything except that we need to take your word that you would bus him as scum. Not buying it.

Okay, I see where you're having trouble. By doing the unexpected I don't mean "too scummy to be scum" stuff. That's not my style. I play to my town meta as best as I'm able. This is the kind of thing that I mean (Banana Frog is me): revealing to the town what groupscum's best strategy is and then working with the town to counteract it. Which is exactly what my townself would have been doing, too.

Yet I didn't win that game. I was lynched on day 9 and the last groupscum was lynched on day 10 and then it was over. I was caught fairly by other people who played well.

So anyway, I'm mostly fine with the rest of the post. It piques my curiosity though - so what are you seeing so far from Scorp's reactions, BCPlot?

I will do this today. I would have gotten there sooner but people keep engaging me about stuff.

Also, if MS' post feels good to me because it echoes my thoughts and a bit of playing style, shouldn't you feel that resonance too? Is it because it's directed at you that you're not reaching out to him anymore but instead scumreading him?

I don't know.

I'm also quite interested in how most of the thread has not commented much on this except dwlee - to which I will ask why do you feel it's TvT?

Maybe they're trying not to fan the flames or step on our toes while we sort each other and ourselves out.

--P

[BeardedCat]

I thought she played well as scum in Refraction, which is the only time I've seen her scumgame. I townread her there. She tends to come off as scummy as town but her scumplay is pretty good.

--P

[BeardedCat]

I'm here and catching up.

~BBT

[BeardedCat]

If bc or ms are scum it is ms. I'd be much more comfortable lynching the person who has been posting elsewhere and has an outdated vote parked on me.

I'd appreciate your support on the MS wagon.

Or he hasn't been tracking BBT's every move on the site and has only noticed his absence this game? Which is an extremely plausible possibility. This line of suspicion is ridiculous.

You're missing the point.

MS didn't just say 'Where is BBT?' he tried to spin it to make me look scummy. Like I was only avoiding this game - which is bullshit for two reasons.

1) MS knows activity is not alignment indicative for me, for him to try and use this to make me look scummy means that MS is scum. Town!MS does not do this.

2) I LOVE being scum. MS knows this which means he would also know that I pay much more attention to the games I'm scum in. For MS to suddenly act like this isn't a thing, again, points to MS being scum.

Basically, MS is using things that he knows are not alignment indicative for me to try and paint me in a scummy light. And that's scummy.

It basically boiled down to "I like his readslist" but he repeated that like seven times in seven different ways and made it as long as possible when one sentence would have sufficed. That might be his posting style but the amount of walls I'm seeing that have paragraphs of filler don't sit well with me.

Yeah, that's play-style. Plot can be verbose at times - not alignment indicative.

CotW have had awful voting all game but I have to be careful here because I think I have scum read Titus every single time we have played together.

I'm pretty sure SW has cast like all but one vote so far so I don't see how these thoughts relate.

They don't relate specifically to one another - I was talking about the slot (Titus) in general.

Spiffeh's jump on there for no reason after needing almost no convincing to jump onto BC seems a little too eager to go where the wind blows voting wise

I did give a reason. Plot's post pinged me and my EP vote was just going to waste.

I don't know why you're acting like we're at the time in the game where we need to decide on a compromise lynch - that sounds like pretty shitty reasoning to start moving your vote around.

KT why did you jump off Scorpious? You seemed extremely convinced that he was scum last time you posted.

Aristo and Scorpious are MIA rn so in an effort to put my vote somewhere that it doesn't go to waste I'll VOTE: BeardedCat

Yeah, this is bad. Shows a lack of conviction in your reads. I don't see how Aristo being inactive should change your read on him being scum.

[BeardedCat]

I'm not sure I follow fully, but let me ask you if you think I intentionally misrepped?


To answer as best as I can, I dont think Scorpious was trying to disengage from KT at all, you dont disengage with back and forth biting posts, you shut it down with an answer and if they are not satisfied you let them tire themselves out, it's not really your issue anymore it's up to the rest of town to judge their case and your response and its only if the town start backing his case despite your response do you need to come back to it, otherwise why bother? They didnt like your answer and are just repeating themselves. Such things have happened with other players in this game and you can argue scorpious attitude to answering other players fits that playstyle but not his creeper interactions.

As for the bolded part, I clearly stated before hand in a number of posts, including one just before telling creeper to shut up that I was waiting for Scorpious to be pro active, when creeper went away that was an opportunity for Scorpious to clear some air on the wider game from his perspective, perhaps present his case why creeper was still scum despite the whole age revelation etc, instead once he no longer needed to argue with creeper he stopped posting, despite clearly still being active as he does post less then a hour later to repeat his *i'm ignoring Creeper routine to Dwlee.

OK, so to sum up what you're saying here;

'Scorpious is scum because he did not react how I wanted him to react.'

Would that be a fair assumption?

I've been reading BC as town for playstyle and similarities in thought, but because of that, I have had paranoid suspicions about them.

Can you explain the correlation here? How does 'they have similar thoughts to me' lead to paranoia?

The back and forth after that about BBT's inactivity (the reason for BC's serious vote onto MS) seems a bit of an overreaction from BC

See my thoughts on this above - you seem to be missing the point of what I was saying.

BBT's pushing of MS' comment that CoTW's posting was good questioning (that's quite a clunky string of possessives but I'm lazy to make it sleeker.) I'm honestly puzzled as to why this would be a thing to point out at all. To me, it seems obvious that MS is saying that CoTW's question is pro-town/useful to town (and that reactions to it will probably help to glean alignments etc.), but not that it's townie or a towntell or whatever.

Because it showed a flaw in his thought process. You don't go around pointing out the pro-town things that your scum reads do, do you? It was done in an effort to coerce CotW onto our wagon - it would be much more difficult if he had continued pushing them as a scum read (which if you remember his scum read took precedence).

~Both BBT

[BeardedCat]

Talking of refraction, I can't help but recall the other pointless back and foerh bbt got into - he and Thor were on opposing scum teams. Bbt's largest contribution so far and he did that with it? However, I find Ms incredibly difficult to sort (@ms, link to your last scun game?)

Tut tut Bella, what are you doing here?

Do you mean the game where it was multi-ball, and we knew it was multi-ball, and we were looking for the other scum team? Because I think you do and I found scum in that 'pointless back and forth' so I'm not really sure what you're getting at?

Ew when did Scorpious get down to only one vote on him.

Why are you lamenting a wagon that you're not even a part of?

Yes and I think he tried to lurk the suspicion off of him and he was successful.

Wow. I mean, you

JUST

unvoted Aristo because he wasn't here and you're talking about people successfully lurking votes off of them? Are you serious right now?

MS/Spiffeh are scum.

Just need to find the last one. Could be Bella.

~BBT

[BeardedCat]

OK, I want everyone to take a look at the first few pages here and see BBT going after Grib for a supposed scum slip about his flavor. Hint-BBT was scum, Grib was town.

I'm going to stop you right here. If you're going to try and meta me, you had better do it correctly.

Recent game

Take a look at that game. I pinned someone's (PatientZer0) early reads-list as scummy and questioned Mollie because she was town reading it. Mollie and myself got into a 'pointless back and forth' for quite some time. I

pressed

(read: nit picked) Mollie about the reads-list and ultimately got distracted from it. I was town and Patient Zero was scum.

Another game; BBT caught scum from another reads-list and engaged in yet another 'pointless back and forth'

That is a very, very poor attempt to meta me SW. In summary, I nit pick ALL THE TIME. It's how I play, it's how I find scum. I find a small detail that nobody else noticed and I hone in on it until my read is finalised. I catch scum out for making shit reads-lists all the time - those two examples were just from the top of my head.

This makes me suspicious of Bella because she is trying to use this as reasoning to position herself to join my wagon when she knows full well exactly how I play. Hell, I'm pretty sure in our first game together I tunneled the shit out of her for something pretty small until I realised she was town.

You wanna try again SW?

~BBT

[BeardedCat]

h
So as scum, BBT nitpicked at Grib about role PM flavor and made it out to be a scum slip. Now, he's picking at Scorpius and I believe he said something about Spiffeh having reads lists and made it sound scummy.

This was what I was replying to from SW. I messed the quote up.

~BBT

[BeardedCat]

I'm interested to see who replaces sonic and what their take on the thread is.

Circling back to scorpious's 528 and subsequent.

He asks some questions of ari, but ari hasn't reached this page in his catchup yet, so I'll skip commenting on them for now.

Bella does a catchup post in 605 but misses the questions you asked her.

COTW- I guess I would expect more from town Titus honestly. BBT is doing what he did to me in another game and I'm 90% sure he flipped scum,again not positive,but I have too many windows open already.. lol

COTW is Titus and SilverWolf. BeardedCat is Plotinus and BlueBoodedToffee. Do you mean that a member of COTW is doing to you what BBT did to you in another game or do you mean that BBT the member of BeardedCat is doing what he did to you in another game? (And what was the thing that he did?)

Rory will take a little bit of comparing ,but his might have to wait,not sure if I can do it critically right now..

I'd like you to come back to this when you have a chance, but I know it's a more in depth question than the others.


I need to see more really. This is an okay start.

pedit: gummy wants to know if you think i'd be engaging with you about your readslist like this regardless of my alignment or not, whether you're townreading me for reaching out to you or whether you're scumreading me for it, or treating it as null.

--P

[BeardedCat]

I feel like Bella's avoiding me. Looking through her ISO she's mentioned BBT a couple times but me only once.

--P

[BeardedCat]

ok. That's perceptive on the KT/DW thing. I am reading their interactions as a TvT, so my own opinion may have nudged you a bit. I think right now it is hard to know who is right but after we have some flips to work with the picture will be clearer. If I'm wrong about them then I'll answer for it later.

It's okay that you disagree with me about KT/DW. You should push the wagon you believe in.

--P

[BeardedCat]

oh and I'm basically procrastinating waiting on MS's replacement to confirm or dispel the high likelihood they're scum

me too! feel like there's no point continuing to tunnel an empty slot so I'm waiting on the replacement to confirm whether we're right about him or not.

Hi! I'm working lates this week, but let's try to synch up?

and i've been going to bed earlier because the change of clocks back to winter timezone is messing with me. been waking up at like 5am. but yeah i'll try or we can do it in slow motion leaving messages back and forth? Deadline's Saturday morning though ((expired on 2015-10-31 09:00:00)) so if we want to do it this day phase it's going to have to be slow motion version i think.

What do you think about their weird double voting?

I think they're townblocking. They're two players who are trusting each other to be town and are now working together to eliminate mutual scumreads. I haven't seen scum vote together like that in such a flashy way before.

Titus I know it's early for VCA but what do you think of the alignments of two players who vote together like that? Do you think it's more likely both town or both scum or a mixture?


I'm not really awake yet so if I missed something I'll try to circle back to it after coffee at some point.

--P

[BeardedCat]

I agree with you about Rory, though my reasons are different (for me it's mainly his tone of voice, he seems more relaxed than before. Last time I often got the impression that he didn't know what to say and sometimes overthought it too much.)

Do you think his townreads are better substantiated this game or it's just that there's fewer of them?

His activity levels are starting to worry me a little because he had a similar pattern of inactivity in our game together but that's not alignment indicative for everyone and I don't know if it is for him or not, I'd have to play with him a few more times to know.

--P

[BeardedCat]

I think for most people it is not indicative; there are a few players for whom it can be and I think there are also some select situations in which inactivity looks worse than usual but it's still not a strong tell because anyone can have something come up offline.

--P

[BeardedCat]

Yeah, sounds good.

--P

[BeardedCat]

I never said that we had to compromise a lynch. I explained in my previous post that if I think my vote will serve a better purpose elsewhere I will vote there even if I would prefer someone else was lynched. No one was really considering my arguments against EP, your slot pinged me, Metal Sonic asked me to wagon you, so I voted for you. I am pretty surprised so many people have an issue with this.

I know you didn't say we had to compromise lynch, but that's how you're playing. I mean, it's a great way for scum to hop around and join any wagon they want because 'my vote was doing nothing on it's own.' That's bullshit. You have 14 days for a reason, if you think someone is scum, you should be pushing them and you should be showing conviction in your reads. As town. But you're not doing this. Because you're scum.

The only time you don't want to lynch your top scum read is when a compromise needs to be reached before deadline - hence why I called you out for your awful vote hopping.

Gummy, my gut is telling me scorp is town (and I explained about my not voting because of caution around sharing a wagon. MY head is telling me, though, that maybe he's struggling with dwlee/kt and that's affecting his play. He still seems awkward, though, and I'm lacking a clear progression of thought from him.

I'm prolly over cautious. Actually,
VOTE: scorp.

This whole read just confused me...are you scum reading Scorpious or not?

Be nice. I do mean that, but you also full well know it's a tactic outside multiball games, and you've proved to be good at it. The rest of your questions look townish, but why am I scummy?

I'm always nice but I can't help it if you rolled scum Bella. I still have to lynch you.

What I'm saying is, you're acting like you have never seen me do that as town. Have you ever seen me nitpick as town?

Spoiler: CotW

Is there questions for me somewhere or comments on what I'm said.

I'm tired and too lazy to check.

~SW

What was I talking about again anyway?

I forgot. Prolly time to prod dodge again.

~SW

Hell fucking no. You don't present a bullshit case on me and then walk away acting like it never existed when I counter it.

VOTE: CotW

I hate myself.

Apologies Mod.

[BeardedCat]

I am defending MS because Plot's vote on him was scummy and they are either completely misunderstanding what I thought was pretty clear or they are trying to misrepresent Sonic's ONE THROW-AWAY comment to justify voting for him which is what I'm leaning towards.

I'm not sure why you're trying to represent his comment as 'throw-away'. It wasn't a throw away comment, he was trying to gather support to push our wagon. That's not throw-away, it's pretty serious.

Hey fucktard,my mother had complications from a stroke and has been in ICU since Saturday..

Sorry but I need to comment on this. Can we keep things like this out of the thread? This is a game and there is no need for such personal information.

On the game side of things, comments like this will earn you town reads and I don't think that's fair to us as players to be influenced by such a post. I once had a player say his wife had left him, he had just lost his job and he was fighting for his kids and that's why he was lurking. He was scum and it was all untrue.

Please don't make posts like that.

~BBT

[BeardedCat]

OK, I want everyone to take a look at the first few pages here and see BBT going after Grib for a supposed scum slip about his flavor. Hint-BBT was scum, Grib was town.

I'm going to stop you right here. If you're going to try and meta me, you had better do it correctly.

Recent game

Take a look at that game. I pinned someone's (PatientZer0) early reads-list as scummy and questioned Mollie because she was town reading it. Mollie and myself got into a 'pointless back and forth' for quite some time. I

pressed

(read: nit picked) Mollie about the reads-list and ultimately got distracted from it. I was town and Patient Zero was scum.

Another game; BBT caught scum from another reads-list and engaged in yet another 'pointless back and forth'

That is a very, very poor attempt to meta me SW. In summary, I nit pick ALL THE TIME. It's how I play, it's how I find scum. I find a small detail that nobody else noticed and I hone in on it until my read is finalised. I catch scum out for making shit reads-lists all the time - those two examples were just from the top of my head.

This makes me suspicious of Bella because she is trying to use this as reasoning to position herself to join my wagon when she knows full well exactly how I play. Hell, I'm pretty sure in our first game together I tunneled the shit out of her for something pretty small until I realised she was town.

You wanna try again SW?

~BBT

This was my response to your 'meta case'. You have been here and have been posting and have chosen not to respond to this.

This tells me your scum who got caught pushing a bad case.

[BeardedCat]

What you say you're not scum? Well shit, you must be town then right?

SW, I'll gladly 1v1 you and watch you eat rope.

Come at me.

I have not selectively quoted you. Show me where I have done this. I mean, you say you 'get the reasons' people are scum reading us but you're justifying this by using something that has only just happened right this second? Please, your upcoming OMGUS couldn't be more clear.

I have engaged with you plenty in an attempt to figure you out and I think I have done so. I feel I have been more than clear with the problems I have with your slot and why I'm scum reading you.

You presented a bad case on me. I responded to it. You returned to the thread acting 'lazy and tired' in an attempt to avoid responding to me because you had been caught pushing a bad case. You could quite easily have gone back and read what you missed, actually considering you were supposedly scum reading me, you should have been ACTIVELY looking for my response to your case so I call bullshit on your lazy and tired posts.

~BBT

[BeardedCat]

Major misrep BBT. I did not justify the reasons others are scumreading you with that observation about you nitpicking things as scum.

I didn't say that. You said this;

I am starting to get the reasons people have been suspicious of you. You come in and selectively quote us and throw down a vote while doing nothing to question us or try to figure us out. That's bad after saying you don't like the voting and after spending time calling others scum.

~SW

This means you can see how people are scum reading us (me) because of my 'selective quoting' and vote on you when it had ONLY JUST HAPPENED. So, yeah, that's exactly what you said.

I brought up an observation that concerned me. You addressed it. I didn't have any further questions for you on that issue.

You didn't even acknowledge my response. You tried to push a case for me being scum based on meta - a very poor case. In fact, you later stated that 'nothing has changed' in regards to your read;

I believe I already explained all my issues with BC in an early post. They haven't gone away.

This implies that you have seen my response and are not willing to reevaluate your read. That's scummy on two counts;

a) the meta case you originally pushed was awful and you quite clearly did not do your homework as my response shows

b) you didn't acknowledge my response. Nothing. To the rest of the thread, this implies you're still scum reading our slot and allows you to jump on our wagon if need be. If I hadn't called you out on it, no-one would be any the wiser. The fact you completely ignored my response to your case is scummy in it's own right.

You quoted me saying I was tired and said we walked away from you. That's an outright lie. You will not get us lynched so that's just bluster.

Stand back and watch me lynch you.

You did walk away. You had no response for my counter to your case - you got caught pushing a bad case and swiftly turned your attention to Spiffeh.

You also contradicted yourself by talking about others bad votes and make a really shitty one.

This is completely subjective - of course it's bad vote to you, you're caught scum. To me, it's a fucking fantastic vote and in no way contradicts my views of your awful voting this game. What a strange comment that is to make, you're trying to discredit me in any way possible.

You also have been pushing Spiffeh as scum but are ignoring that to come after us. No you really haven't laid out the reasons you have a problem with us.

You're right, I did think Spiffeh was scum but your hop on the wagon after trying to attack me is super, super scummy and I'm now much more comfortable voting for you.

I feel I have been more than clear with why you're scum. If anybody else thinks I haven't, I will address it.

PEdit - Yeah Bastion, it's the meta case.

~BBT

[BeardedCat]

I didn't lie, I said it exactly how I see it. You were responding to other people and posting and chose not to engage with me. I read that as scummy.

I haven't lied, I haven't selectively quoted, I haven't misrepped and I haven't spun any false evidence. Keep trying to throw out buzzwords to try and discredit me though, I'm enjoying it.

You finding it hard to leave the thread? Scum just can't help but defend themselves...

Bastion and Dwlee, can I get your thoughts on CotW and my case please?

~BBT

[BeardedCat]

Case is weak, you answered him solidly but I didnt see the need to follow up and you showed little to no interest in following up in the post, you firmly put the issue on SW's side and it was his call to pick it up or drop the issue. It does look like he dropped it as it was 1 of multiple points he raised in that post against other players and your other head and COTW interacted plenty post the issue for it to look settled. If SW was using it to drive a wagon or to keep suspicion on you I'd agree but as far as I can see he's not.

His reaction to you bringing it back up though is a bit of an over reaction though. It's not the first time this game that your BBT head has pulled discussions and issues from the ether of the past back to the forefront after your other head has led the conversation elsewhere, you pretty much did it with me, so I dont see why he needs to call scum and instead settle the issue and decide if it's worth kicking back to you or not.

Frankly I do find you to be one of the odder hydras I've encountered as it is really obvious when head 1 is talking and when head 2 is talking cause head 1 is tea drinking, biscuit eating friendly, a head 2 is a kick to the nuts every few days.

OK, I'm disappointed I won't be getting your support in the lynch of CotW. Can you clarify why you think my case is weak?

Do you think SW's case on me held merit? What do you suppose their motivation was for presenting a half-assed case and then backing off so quickly? It was scum trying to push a case to get us lynched, when they realised it wasn't going to work, they wanted to avoid us and hope the issue went away entirely. Unfortunately for them, they picked the wrong person to try and lynch.

SW left their read in limbo, town don't do that. As far as anyone in the thread knew, they were still scum reading our slot but avoided engaging with me - where is the town motivation for that?

Here are the actions; they presented a weak case on me, I responded to show their case was weak, they avoided engaging with me about it but still claimed that they're read on our slot had not changed. They shut down discussion and refused to reevaluate - that's scummy. Where is the town motivation in any of it?

Dwlee - do you find my case lacking as well? Can you explain why you're town reading the CotW slot?

~BBT

[BeardedCat]

You both bring up good points BBT so I'm just not gonna bother with it. I'd rather lynch scorp or spiffeh.

Can you just expand on this? What points do you find you're agreeing with?

~BBT

[BeardedCat]

And your thoughts on CotW Scorpious?

[BeardedCat]

Frankly it was a meta case so I didnt really have the willpower to open 5+ of your pass games and compare them, so I judged on your confidence in response which tells me their case was likely going nowhere. But I put little faith in meta tactics...

My case on CotW has nothing to do with meta and everything to do with how they tried to approach me/lynch me. I also have very little faith in meta and I try to avoid using it at all costs but when I'm attacked with meta I have to defend with meta.

Again you are isolating 1 part of a larger post directed at multiple players. If he did not follow up on Spiffah or MS as well he's clearly fishing for support, but he has clearly kept on Spiffah and the MS read was ruined because the perverted idiot went and got banned.

How does SW referring to 3 players effect their read on me? I'm not getting the correlation you're making there? I'm talking about SW's read on me and me only.

Do you think scum make things as obvious as possible? Do you think they shout their plans from the rooftops? The point is to do things subtly, slyly, quietly so as not to draw attention to themselves which is exactly how SW went about their meta case on me. Now they have to engage with me because I called them out on their bullshit. They might have pursued other directions, but they very clearly left the door ajar to return to their scum read on us if the game state warranted it.

Speaking of this, I'm super interested in hearing how Titus is reading me right now.

PEdit - what makes you think our heads are out of sync Bastion?

~BBT

[BeardedCat]

Is that it? Are you finished? Can I rip you apart now?

[BeardedCat]

I'm waiting.

I absolutely cannot wait for this.

[BeardedCat]

I'm sorry, I can't help myself.

As it is, the voting thing has become null. I throw my vote around sometimes, depending on the situation to scumhunt. I poke and prod and make waves. It is of my opinion that you can't flush out scum if you don't do this so if I get on you for moving your vote around, it doesn't make sense if I'm doing the same thing.

So you are back to null. Now let me go catch scum.

UNVOTE: Spiffeh

Before I even get to your response I want to flag this up; clear buddying from SW to Spiffeh. Spiffeh was contemplating leaving our wagon (or at least re reading our slot) and SW figures that the best way to keep him on it is to stop scum reading him and retract the vote. Note, it's now a null read, not a town read. A town read would be too far. It's subtle things like this that people are not picking up on. It's really good scum play but not good enough to get past me.

She also has to pull back on her hypocritical voting so she can call me out for hypocrisy. I'll get to this in a later post though. All of their moves are calculated, I fear that once we get killed CotW will run this game.

~BBT

[BeardedCat]

You are spinning things like I just put that meta comment out about you, then spun it as a scum case against you, and then when I said I was tired it meant I was scum who saw your response to it and was walking away. You assume that's what the case was and that's how you are spinning it. That meta comment was never a case on you. That was a comment in a post where I commented on a bunch of other things. I didn't vote you on that. I didn't try to push a wagon on you on that. I pointed something out, you responded, I was done with it. You are completely ignoring the other problems I have pointed out with your slot and only picking this ONE thing out to spin it as a case on us and it reeks to high heaven.

If it wasn't meant as a case against me, or as a point for people to consider scum!BBT, then what was it? What was the purpose of that comment?

It's not just your tired comment, I quoted two posts. One of them said 'Did I have something to respond to? Oh well, I'll just prod dodge' or something along those lines. This is you clearly trying to shut down our discussion and that is scummy. You really think I was gonna let you pull some bullshit on me and just walk away from it?

If I'm not mistaken, the rest of your problems with our slot are with Plot's posting no? I'm not going to speak for Plot, she is a big girl, she can post for herself. You expecting me to post for Plot and then trying to spin that as reasoning for me being scum is so wrong, like that's just wrong on so many levels. You're reaching hard.

Oh hey, should we look at what you said here when I went after you for questioning me and then ignoring it when I answered you, OK let's do that:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=60427 This game you said this:

Subject: Open 586: Playing With Elements~ (D7)

1021 - SW, if I'm satisfied with an answer, why would I pursue it further? If it makes you feel better, from now on I will quote a person's response and say 'Thanks for responding, I am satisfied with your answer and will no longer be pursuing this issue. Have a great day.'

More coming, this just points out the hypocrisy with his so called case on me. Stay tuned.

First question; since when is hypocrisy a scum tell? Secondly, clearly you had a problem with me not acknowledging whatever you said to me in that game so why would you not extend that courtesy to other people?

[BeardedCat]

So you left out the problem I had with Plot's posts to spin this to look like I suddenly understand the scumreads on you based on this alone. Also you seemed to have forgotten this. 781 where I laid out all the problems I had with your slot. I'm sure this was just an oversight though right? I mean, why would you say I'm only scumreading you based on one post while leaving out others and then say you aren't being selective? Because clearly you are, and that's scummy.

Why are you expecting me to answer for Plot and why are you trying to make that look scummy because I cut out part of a post that was not directed at me? Are you reading this crazy shit you're typing right now?

In 781 you state two things; scum!BBT nit picks and you disliked that I was attacking reads lists. I responded to both of these points in detail, where is your problem with this exactly?

Nope, my problems with your slot were laid out in my 781. Did you ever address that cuz if you didn't you are a total fucking hypocrite and need rope badly. Those issues haven't gone away like I said. Stop spinning it as scum walking away from a response to one simple comment I made. How about you ask me about it? How about you get clarification for it? That would show me you are scumhunting me in an effort to figure out my alignment, not fabricating a shitty scumread on me. Mega scummy behavior.

Yes, I did. It's right here; 791. I'm sure that was just an oversight though, right?

I fucking did respond don't even try to misrep me like that. It's clear as day I responded and I only mentioned it like 9,56478,4794929 times so it's understandable that you might have missed it.

You laid a shit case on me, I tore it apart with my response, you proceeded to ignore both me and my response and shift your attention elsewhere. The cheek of you asking me to ask for clarification or make an effort to develop my read. My fucking word. You're pretty clearly grasping at straws and flat out lying now. This is the beginning of the end for you.

No, you called me out on our voting this game while you are throwing your vote around as well and your reasons are weak as hell. What's good enough for you, makes us scum and that's just plain bad.

Sigh, wrong. I didn't call you out for 'throwing your vote around' I called you out for making bad votes on town players. What an awful assumption you just made there. To be fair, I don't think I was clear about why I disliked your voting but that assumption is still terrible and shows all you're interested in is trying to discredit me.

~BBT

[BeardedCat]

You finding it hard to leave the thread? Scum just can't help but defend themselves...

BBT has said many times that being defensive is not scummy but look at this. Oh, suddenly defending yourself is scum. Just another example of total fucking hypocrisy. Here let me get you a couple quotes of him saying that.

From the earlier game I quoted:

Subject: Open 586: Playing With Elements~ (D7)

Defensiveness does not equal scum though.

And this game:

Not really, no. Being defensive is a null tell.
~BBT

Another example of your hypocrisy. Not done yet though. Hang on.

This is pretty bad and once again shows your selective meta hunting.

I have said on numerous occasions that defensiveness is not scummy and I'll say that until the end of time. However, this is normally in direct response to somebody saying something along the lines of 'Defensiveness always equals scum' which is flat out untrue.

I have also said on multiple occasions that there are certain types of defensiveness and certain situations where it's likely that scum can get defensive and then it does become a scum-tell. I don't know how to speed search threads like you were doing but I'm sure anyone who has played with me before will have seen me say it. I'm sure though, that this was just another oversight, right?

~BBT

[BeardedCat]

Again, I wasn't trying to lynch you with that but you keep saying over and over I am. You are selective casing instead of reading me as a whole and that's scummy because it spins evidence to fit a read you already decided on instead of looking at the evidence and seeing if it fits.

Then tell me, what was the point of the comment? Why did you feel the need to include it?

Wait, I'm scum for presenting the things that I think make you look scummy? I don't believe you even believe what you're typing right now.

See this is you putting the idea out there that what we did was scum and scum motivated without listening to what Sir Bastion is doing which is explaining why it could come from town and isn't a scumtell of any kind. This is just saying we are doing something and because scum COULD do it, the only answer is that it MUST be scum instead of realizing it CAN be and IS town.

~SW

Right, because I'm scum reading you and I want you lynched. What a strange way to approach the game, huh? Trying to lynch your scum reads, well I never.

~BBT

[BeardedCat]

I know you must think the world revolves around you but my being tired had zero to do with your response to my meta comment. None, whatsoever. The purpose of that comment was to make an observation and see what others thought of it. I wanted opinions. I wanted to know what others thought and I also had a bunch of other things in that post where I was sharing my though processes. Why didn't you ask me about it instead of lying about what my tired comments were about and saying I was scum running away. I can't see a world in which town behaves this way.

The hypocrisy is you deciding we were scummy for things you've done yourself as town. It shows you fabricated a scumread on us with bad evidence. That's exactly what scum does. They have to. All their scumcases are fabricated. That's what yours is. My showing your hypocrisy is me showing you fabricated evidence against us and that's scummy.

~SW

You keep talking about the tired comment and I keep pointing you towards the second post you made. Why are you not acknowledging this?

So you didn't believe the comment you made? I'm failing to understand the thought process behind making that comment if it were not to garner support for scum reads on our slot. Like, you're acting as if that comment had nothing to do with me and instead was solely aimed at the rest of the thread and that's bullshit.

You don't see a world where someone is town, gets a shit case thrown at them, responds and kills said case, and then the case maker just walks away as if nothing happened? Please. Come on. Don't play dumb SW because I know you're not.

I have made it very clear why I think your lack of response is scummy. You're trying to compare apples and oranges.

Also, where the fuck is Titus? I'm beginning to think she was trying to avoid me the whole time...

[BeardedCat]

See as a hydra you are both part of this game. You don't have to tell me what Plot is thinking but I do have a right to use it as part of my reasons for finding your slot scummy. There's more to it now than 781 and your response. And your selective editing of that quote changed the context of it completely. That is not something I see town doing no matter what your excuses are.

You're right, you do. But you should not be expecting me to answer for Plot and you certainly shouldn't have a problem with me cutting posts down to keep it relevant to what I'm responding to.

There is now, yeah. But when you wrote 781 I responded pretty quickly and you just tried to use that as a big part of your case on me tonight when it's all completely irrelevant because I had already responded to it. I find it extremely hard to believe that you missed my response. Whatever fluffs out your case I guess.

Right, talk to me about shit cases when yours on us was so bad, it made me want to lynch you immediately. Puh-leeeze, don't even give me that. Try harder the next time you want to mislynch me. Your attempt sucked.

Nice hand-wave.

That's not all I'm interested in. You mentioned our voting being bad. I'm telling you I do that sometimes. I poke the sleeping bear. I rattle the hornest's nest. Scum are not going to come bounding into the thread and offer themselves up to be lynched. Inactive town is a town that loses. So I'm trying to shake things up and see what happens. I gave reasons for all my votes and changes in votes and Titus voted for Sonic a few times because she feels he was scum.

~SW

Right, but your votes were not on inactive people or non-contributers. They were on towny-looking players and that's what I took issue with.

~BBT

[BeardedCat]

No, you said that we were scum because scum just have to defend themselves and I couldn't leave the thread because of it. I am not going to let you get away with having one standard for us and another for yourself.

I will fight that shit every single time because it's a lie. I was at work. I had a few minutes to post before a meeting. I always, always, always aggressively defend myself.

It's not one standard - I have just explained myself. Do you have a problem with the explanation or not?

[BeardedCat]

Read my earlier comments. I explained it.

Read my later comments. I'm not satisfied.

Wait, I'm scum for presenting the things that I think make you look scummy? I don't believe you even believe what you're typing right now.

You are scum for a bad read and a bad case and a bad vote. In the future, do not try to mislynch me as scum unless you have something a hell of a lot better than that or I will make you look like a fool.

It's funny that you think you're straw grasping looks anything other than exactly what it is.

I think my case is fairly solid and I'm more than happy to watch you hang.

~BBT

[BeardedCat]

I made that comment because I was tired. I've been exhausted all week. It was just an off the cuff comment. It meant nothing. I already explained why I didn't respond to you more than once. You should of clarified with us instead of calling us scum for it but you don't seem interested in finding the truth out. Just lying to try to get us lynched.

This is all me baby.

~SW

Can you clarify which comment you're talking about in the first line?

I don't clarify with scum, when something pings me, I lynch that shit as quickly as possible.

~BBT

[BeardedCat]

OK, I feel like SW knows her place now and she will know better than to ever try and lynch me again.

SW, can you confirm if Titus agrees with your read or not please?

Can we get some votes on the CotW slot now? I feel like it should be pretty obvious that they're scum and I would like this DP to be over with a scum lynch.

~BBT

[BeardedCat]

Hey guys, I'm back.

dealing with mom in hospital

I'm really sorry to hear this. I wish that things go as well as they can for your family.

i think scorpious has somthing against me for some reson. I mean i only said the thing about lurking beacuse it has been the general idea. I understand something poped up thats fine but whats not fine if you just snaping at me for somthing half the game has openly said.you know Scourpious i'm starting to take these things personally and if this keeps up i will make sure your lynched. Right now i'm still sorting things out making sure your actully scum but if these kin da things continue where i yell at the

YOUNGEST PLAYER IN THE GAME

you won't like the consaqentes.

I think this is town frustration.

Spiffeh-do you get why I have major problems with this?

I do for some of it, which is awkward because I know BBT and SW are in the middle of something and I don't want to be

that hydra

but your last point about his number of scumreads is the most salient to me.

This is a game and there is no need for such personal information.

Okay but at the same time we're 16 aquaintances stuck in a room together for 1-2 months and sometimes a little more of real life than we can help is going to spill into the game. Sometimes we're going to be tired or cranky or whatever and I think it's best to just treat that kind of thing as null. If it happens to me at some point people should try using sentences like this "I'm sorry you're upset, Plot, but you're still scum though." (if you're scumreading me) or "I'm sorry you're upset, Plot; put the keyboard down and go do something else." (if you're townreading me).

I'm sure all of us have stuff going on offline. Best to treat it as null.

For what it's worth, I also found this post confusing:

What was I talking about again anyway?

I forgot. Prolly time to prod dodge again.

~SW

because you weren't in prod range at the time; you weren't anywhere near prod range at the time. I didn't think it was scummy I just didn't understand it.



I liked both scorpious' questions in 930 and Bastion's response in 939.

We need to consolidate before deadline, @plot, thoughts on a spiffeh lynch?

am okay with it. Still want to sync up with you. Saturday afternoon is out because letterday puts me in a mood in which I shouldn't really be posting in games, but I'll be around in the morning and then all of Sunday. I'll probably be awake on Monday before the deadline but that's cutting it too close I think.

I'll be up for a few more hours tonight as well.


I like Wolfie's meta research of spiffeh in 963. Wish she'd do it for me too. (I don't expect you to be able to get anything alignment indicative out of meta diving me; I do expect you to skim my ISO in a town game or two to form baseline expectations of my playstyle and learn that the things you're scumreading me for are "Plot's just like that" things.)

Starting in 539 I had a really bad feeling about this slot. Plot's posts helping Scorpius rang as someone trying to get towncred and as you can see by reading that whole interaction, Scorpius townread them after that. It is pointed out in future posts I'll be sharing.

If you look at his readslist, he was townreading me before then. I was his only townread. Also, when I make a towncred grab, I actually get towncred for it. I did not expect anybody to give me towncred for coaching because coaching is a kinda scummy thing to do and I was really blatant about it. Scorpious continued to townread me after that but nobody else gave me towncred for it which was in line with my expectations.

Also, scorpious himself does not have enough towncred for his read on me to be an influential force in the thread. Please explain the scum motivation for doing what I did. I had literally nothing to gain from it because he was already townreading me and it wasn't the kind of move that would endear me to anybody else in the thread.

See as a hydra you are both part of this game. You don't have to tell me what Plot is thinking but I do have a right to use it as part of my reasons for finding your slot scummy.

This is true. You do have the right to use it as part of your reasons for finding our slot scummy. And here I am. We can talk. I can tell you about BBT that he is just like that and I can tell you about myself what I think and what I am like and why I do things that I do. If you have questions for me then you can ask them.

I poke the sleeping bear. I rattle the hornest's nest. Scum are not going to come bounding into the thread and offer themselves up to be lynched. Inactive town is a town that loses. So I'm trying to shake things up and see what happens.

How does this differ from BBT's behaviour in this thread? I know you were talking about your voting habits, but if you expand this metaphor a bit I think you will find it fits BBT to a T.

So where is plot and where is titus???

Had a headache. Am back now.


I like scorpious' question for dwlee in 1008.

I think BC vs. COTW is TvT..

I think it might be too >.>

VOTE: Tony Montanta

Vent in hydrachat about BC please to me SW. Tony needs to die.

I'm okay with this vote.


I am caught up and the people I want to lynch are: Tony, spiffeh, aristo, scorp. Rory is no longer my top townread and may be sliding into the nulls. Bella is still null.

CotW is someone I didn't want to lynch on day 1, and part of that is that I was looking forward to playing with both of them. I wanted to give them until day 2 to towntell and lynch different scum on day 1 if they're scum because I think they are one of the slots that will be easier to sort accurately later rather than sooner and more importantly that they (like Bella) would be easier to sort inaccurately on day 1 if that makes sense.

I liked their earlier posting and I think some of BBT's points are okay on them but my main issue with them is the playstyle based attacks after admitting that playstyle based attacks were a pet peeve of theirs. I'll get into that some in my next post (written simultaneously to this one; I moved all the playstyle things into one post so that my posts would be shorter and maybe higher chance of them being read.)

But hypocrisy isn't a scumtell so I need some time to figure out if they're scum or if I'm just mad at Wolfie.

--P

[BeardedCat]

Putting all of the stuff about my playstyle in their own special post:

Plot's posts are still pinging the fuck out of me

ok.

You could try ask me questions or something.

I'm honestly getting rather tired and burnt out reading BeardedCat

Plot sits back and posts all these wordy posts that no on really reads or likes and does pretty much nothing that resembles scumhunting at all.

This is the kind of thing that totally kills my motivation to play, fwiw. It's a playstyle clash that comes up in many of my games.

And it makes me wonder what happened to this:

Spoiler: you defending bbt from spiffeh's playstyle based attack

I really don't think it's worth a full out scumread when BBT objected to being called to be voted for, for not being here. When someone takes an issue that is not alignment indicative for you, and scumreads you for it, it is reasonable to expect that person will think it's scummy because it's a misrep. It's dishonest. I have had that used against me in games before. I've been scumread and voted for as town, for my emotions, when they are not alignment indicative. People are too quick in this game to jump on any little thing and it's supremely frustrating to have to deal with being scumread for things that are not alignment indicative, but personality indicative. It's especially annoying because it involves RL issues and Plot was still here even if BBT wasn't. While there may be a few things I don't like about this slot, that isn't one of them. If anything, I'd be more likely to scumread MS for that than BC.

because my posting style, my wordy posts, my difficulties communicating, that's all personality indicative, playstyle indicative, not alignment indicative, and it involves RL issues with me that your hydra partner happens to know about, so.

And saying that what I'm doing doesn't resemble scumhunting is confusing to me because I feel like I've been doing nothing but scumhunting all this time. I think that I play mafia very differently than you do, that I form reads differently and that I view and understand the game differently and it might take us some time to get used to each other, but people's issues with me in this game seem to be a combination of playstyle and burden of proficiency and it's irritating.

If we have conflicting access needs here then that's a discussion we probably need to have to see if we can work something out. Maybe someone could do English to English translation?

Frankly I do find you to be one of the odder hydras I've encountered as it is really obvious when head 1 is talking and when head 2 is talking cause head 1 is tea drinking, biscuit eating friendly, a head 2 is a kick to the nuts every few days.

haha. This is the kind of post that rekindles my motivation to play. Thank you for that. We do seem to have fallen into this good cop bad cop routine which wasn't planned or intentional but it's kind of working for us because I am getting reads from seeing how people react to BBT, who I've played with six and a half times (the half was the game he got lynched in before he could post a single time even though I spent 3 days working on my RVS joke for him ) and I think he's also getting something out of how people react to me.

We do approach things very differently and we disagree about some stuff but someone remind me to put this in our signature postgame because yeah I'm very much the "excuse me kind sir, pardon the interruption, but your scum is showing in this thread. You've got a bit of scumslip between your teeth, if you don't mind my saying, jolly good carry on now my dear" type whereas BBT is more in your face about his stances.

So you left out the problem I had with Plot's posts to spin this to look like I suddenly understand the scumreads on you based on this alone.

It's true that he could have responded to this to say "Plot's just like that" but we've mostly been not stepping on each other's toes here. He knew I'd respond to it when I got around to it and replied to the stuff that was directed at him. If you want both heads to respond to something, you need to aim it at both heads, otherwise you're getting a response from you're talking about.

Not every little thing needs to be replied to in a game; I thought part of your problem with me was that I write too many words, that is I respond to too many things. I can't respond to all the things without using as many words as I'm using. So either you want us both to respond to everything even the stuff that is aimed at the other head instead of trusting the other head to pick it up when they get to it, or you want us to use fewer words. We can't do both at once. Especially I can't.

--P

[BeardedCat]

i liked it too, I forgot to say. Or I felt like I was liking too many things in a row and someone was going to tell me to go to facebook.

Quoting for reference:

I'm facepalming so hard right now.

that's ok, but it warrented a vote on Errant,does it warrant a vote on Bastion?

I like the question because it was a good question. You voted Errant over something but didn't vote Bastion for the same thing. It makes sense to want to know why that is.

I don't think it does on bastion because, even though it's so wrong, he didn't go from a town read on KT and I to a scum read on us.

I like the response because it takes into account the game state. You're basically saying that if it was errant who did it, her reads progression wouldn't make sense but since Bastion was already scumreading you, it wasn't a flip flop, and it was the perceived flip flop that bothered you, not something else.

Your response was about 7 minutes after the question. Taking longer would be null because sometimes people post and then wander off to make lunch and that doesn't mean anything, but answering quickly is a sign that your reasoning is genuine.

--P

[BeardedCat]

I'll try! His playstyle is pretty nitpicky.

Do you want to lynch Tony or Spiffeh?

--P

[BeardedCat]

VOTE: TonyMontana

I was scumreading sonic and Tony's replacing into a game and then being mostly inactive up until the deadline doesn't improve my view of the slot.



I accept your apology, Wolfie, you didn't know. It's just that it happens in almost all of my games that I'm doing the best that I can to communicate and it's not good enough. It comes up in about 2/3rds of my games and I think the other third was people giving me a little space when I was newbie because those were earlier games. Since early August it's come up every single game. I know that people who haven't played with me before aren't going to necessarily know what to do with me but it's something I'm hard on myself about.

It's okay if people can't always understand my communication, I'm sympathetic and I know I'm hard to read and wordy, and that when I'm not wordy I'm needlessly cryptic and that I can't switch between the two modes on purpose. But it's better to try to ask me questions than to assume I'm being difficult on purpose or that I'm purposefully not communicating. I play mafia to practice communication skills, so working on repairing communication with me is helpful.

--P

[BeardedCat]

I think that when we were masons everyone was scumreading us whenever she wrote a catchup post, and I didn't really know why because knowing her alignment, her posts looked fine to me. She was lurky as town in the game that I modded (busy with offline stuff) but people didn't start suspecting her until day 3, and then her day 4 play was really good and she towned things up then.

I think she might be more engaged if she were scum. She likes being scum more than town.

I think it was you who mentioned her saying her gut was saying scorp was town in the very post she voted him (830). That pinged me too and I'd like to see her explain it later.

She's scumreading spiffeh (957), scorp I think (830), probably dwlee (830), aristophanes (611)
She's conflicted about Tony and us but I think she's townleaning my slot or maybe giving us the benefit of the doubt for now, same for kt, rory and errant (605)
She's townreading gummy (830), you (830), maybe sir b still 605

I think she has approximately the right number of scumreads but I disagree about dwlee. I'm otherwise mostly okay with the readslist though it's not particularly controversial. Her townreads are fairly widely townread, her scumreads are understandable, the middle seems to be a mixture of people that are hard to sort either because of skill level or because of lurking. She's null on KT which is interesting since he's been fairly polarising this game. I'd like to hear more about that null read.

I'm not sure her scumreads make sense together but it's also day 1.

--P

[BeardedCat]

sorry, weekend was too...something. I'm okay but can't language well today but wanted to say that am ok with lynch. liked some scorpious's posts (930, 1008) but not enough for comfortable townread just enough for feeling uneasy about lynching him but it's just not enough and also the vt claim.

Sorry if wrong about him. If he is scum, we should look into Bella more closely tomorrow and I suppose I'll be under more scrutiny then too but that's okay. If he's town then I'm not sure what his flip would mean, maybe that he was onto something about the kt-dwlee-bastion triangle.

We need to consolidate onto something.

Would rather tony or ari but v/la and lynching v/la unfortuante. Could spiffeh but i'm not deadline lynching spiffeh on "i promise i'll make a case later." Just no. I will re-evaluate spiffeh toMorrow. will make a case on spiffeh then. will either be scumcase or towncase, depends on how ISOing goes.

I think spiffeh less likely scum than scorpious.

Will reply to all the things, I promise. I know gummy and spiffeh and bella and cotw wanted stuff from me and probably other people too. I am working on longer post. I hate having to post in public when my language is like this but I'm stressing about deadline.

Will be awake 5 more hours and then again right before deadline. will probably vote before bed if bbt doesn't, but I'm hoping if I don't vote right now that he'll have more of a chance to come online and post something before the day ends.

This took me almost two hours to write. trying to write words is like trying to squeeze blood from a stone today.

pedit: oh ok,

intent to hammer in 5 hours from now

--P

[BeardedCat]

My tired and lazy comments. The two posts you have issues with. Yeah, you try to mislynch town because you don't bother to try to read someone. You just assume you are correct.

Why are you talking to me as if you know I'm town here? You say I'm trying to 'mislynch' then you say I don't bother trying to 'read' people and just assume I'm right.

Did you forget you were supposed to be scum reading me because scum don't need to read people and 'assuming I'm correct' implies that you think I'm town.

I have read MS iso, and up to page 20, and trying to keep up with the present.

For now, i will place this vote

VOTE: Scorpious

Was initially suspicious of KT, but the way their interaction went on, that shifted over on scorp.

Why did you decide to read your own ISO? You know your own alignment, no?

~BBT

[BeardedCat]

BC if you still wish for me to address your questions re you and cotw I will if you ask but I'd like to pick this up first

Yes, I would like you to.

I'm seriously annoyed with how little attention people have paid to my case on CotW, please remember this on D2 when we're no longer around.

You really want me to feel you up don't you?

~Titus

I really want you to engage with me and I feel like you have been actively avoiding me. SW said you were scum reading our slot, when and why did that change?

~BBT

[BeardedCat]

Can you tell bbt to stop scumming up your slot?

Can you clarify your scum read please?

I'd also like to know if BBT is still scumreading CotW.

Yes, I am. I'd lynch them in a heartbeat.

Not liking this Tony/MS wagon right now.

CoTW/BC, what do you all think of Bella following you onto the wagon like that? Esp CoTW - on reading Bella's ISO I notice multiple references to following your opinion/sheeping your opinion on certain people. What do you think of that?

What don't you like about the Tony wagon?

I think Bella has a good chance of being scum, but not for the following onto wagons. It's more based on her reasons for scum reading me, it felt like she was positioning herself to vote us if our wagon managed to take off using reasoning that she knows full well are not alignment indicative (as she admitted).

Plot was really, really townie in her posts today, and her frustration with me for how I was reading her on playstyle rang genuine.

~SW

Sorry, what? Your reasons for backtracking on this read are awful. You tried to lynch us, and failed. Titus told you to back off because you can kill us N1 instead and then Titus can get involved with the game because we won't be here to catch her scummy ass.

~BBT

[BeardedCat]

BBT, read hydra PT we made up with CotW a few days ago and deadline is in (expired on 2015-11-02 08:00:00) we're probably hammering scorpious later because ari and tony and bella are v/la and can't claim.

--P

[BeardedCat]

BBT, read hydra PT we made up with CotW a few days ago and deadline is in (expired on 2015-11-02 08:00:00) we're probably hammering scorpious later because ari and tony and bella are v/la and can't claim.

--P

What a scummy list of V/LA's, except Tony. Tony is probably town.

I feel like this is gonna be a mislynch

You do? Why?

~BBT

[BeardedCat]

I think the v/la's are just unfortunately timed. real life dicks people over sometimes, town or scum. would rather take someone at their word. in the masons game shaddowez really did have a migraine on day 6 even though he was scum. we lynched him anyway. if they're v/la for all of day 2 or don't improve then we can lynch them day 2.

3 people v/la. There is at least 34/55= 62% chance one is scum in the v/la list, more than that because behaviour (that percentage works for any 3 names chosen from playerlist. it's not special to the v/la list.)

Can i just hammer cause i'm going to bed soon. i don't want to wake up at 7am to find 3 people at L-4 because we couldn't decide who to flashwagon instead. Countdown to hammer time: (expired on 2015-11-01 23:30:00)

--P

[BeardedCat]

yeah. i think attacking on real life stuff is skeevy. the game lasts a couple months. that's enough time to come back from v/la and participate. also today was all saint's day in europe and yesterday was a holiday in america so there's that too.

VOTE: scorpious L-0

--P

[BeardedCat]

@Nexus: Plot head is v/la until Monday because of health stuff will still be around and trying to post somewhat.

seriously guys i can't brain at all right now. Perhaps I'll be able to brain tomorrow when it's not almost bedtime or the day after but it's not happening today.

Mod note: BeardedCat is unable to vote today.

wtf who did this to us

What would be the point of a gender cop?? o.O

a bit of history to help with history, Nexus used a gender cop in the previous history mafia game:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p4298672

though I believe it is not the same in this game so dont use it as a bible for the roles I have a feeling there is a trick.

I think I have a grasp of whats going on so I have 1 question

@Beardedcat

do you have boobs?

Titus asked us on day 1 but i thought she meant IRL and i was confused, that's why i said that i did but my other head didn't. and then i did figure out she was referring to last game later on but we have boobs and we're town so I thought she was just trying to assume the setup was the same as last time, which I think is an insult to Nexus as a mod. I think running the exact same setup twice would be taking history repeats itself too far.

Titus' boobs obsession makes more sense because she flipped gender cop but it feels like a red herring because nothing in my role pm suggests that I could be a miller. Also she talked a lot about being a gay man and looking for other gay men. I took a brief look at Eliot Ness on wikipedia and didn't see any mentions of him being gay. Maybe the scumteam are gay. I hope Nexus put Alan Turing on because his work on the Enigma was ace.

I'm not opposed to people claiming what gender and sexual orientation they are if they want to but I don't really see the point either. When I modded my mini they massclaimed and then ruled out my actual setup as unlikely and that sums up my opinion of massclaims.

I don't know how coherent this was but I don't remember the last 7 hours of my life and I'm going to bed.
--P

[BeardedCat]

next question I have is with a no limit gender cop already confirmed does this power feel like a town power or a scum power to you BC?

i think the gender cop is town because they flipped town.

if you mean the vote thief it seems like a scum role because it seems like a transparent way to attack the noisiest slots who were throwing their weight around the most yesterday: CotW and us.

Setup spec isn't either of our specialities, so I don't know if gender cop makes vote thief more or less likely to be a town role.

--P

[BeardedCat]

hey Bella, I see you're online. how's it going? i'll be awake for a bit longer, an hour maybe.

--P

[BeardedCat]

I wish I knew why "the v/la head is the only one posting" was a staple for my hydrae. I'll be back in full force on Monday for sure.

I'm eating dinner, but I'm hereish and might be able to answer simple questions. I know I owe some people some answers to questions that occured over the last 10 pages but some of that requires ISO diving which I'm not up for at the moment.

--P

[BeardedCat]

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Deadline is at 10pm GMT on Friday 13th November 2015.

This is in (expired on 2015-11-13 22:00:00). It feels like the day just started but we don't actually have a lot of time.

--P

[BeardedCat]

Starbuck, Tony, how are your catchups going?

I was far less surprised to see CotW die. They are scary (to scum) when town.

This likely points to someone more experienced making the kill.
That's not to say Dwlee or KT aren't a part of the scumteam, but I think it points to someone who knows WolfTit's heads is definitely there.

I was also unsurprised. I think anyone who read day 1 would have been able to figure out who the more experienced players were, who was sticking their necks out and actively scumhunting, and anyone who ISOed the mod would be able to figure out who wasn't being voted all that much, and they were also pretty obviously crumbing something about their flavour (and, in hindsight, their role with all the gender questions).

I think all we can get out of night kill analysis is that the scum team is not solely composed of people who haven't been paying any attention at all. So probably not all three of Tony/Starbuck/Aristophanes.

Might be worth looking into COTW's reads some, just in case. They were scumreading spiffeh (who I promise I'll ISO tomorrow) and Ari and Tony's predecessor, and Bella, and BBT (but not me; Bella may find this familiar both from her hydra with me and from her hydra with BBT).

--P

[BeardedCat]

hey bella

I listed the 3 names that I felt had been paying the very least attention. It was hard to think of the third name because there were tony and starbuck who replaced in and didn't catchup but really any of [ari/you/errant/gummy] could have been the third but i think Ari was paying the least attention of the four of you; I remember at least some content from you three anyway.

--P

[BeardedCat]

Honestly, this line of thought is rather WIFOMMY and I'm not sure what to get out of it. If it's simply that NKA may be rather unreliable to go on re a CoTW flip, then yes I agree. I'm a bit iffy on this line of thought and much prefer Bella's thought process of looking at those who have been engaged the least instead, which is a more objective and easier to gauge method.

You're right that it's not saying much. It's saying that at least one member of the scumteam has been paying enough attention to glance through the mod's ISO. I ruled out a team of three people but I didn't rule out any of those individuals. With 11 alive and knowing that i'm town* that means there are 10 choose 3 possible scumteams, or (10*9*8)/(1*2*3) = 120, and all I've done is rule out one of them so there are still 119 different possible scumteams to choose from.

*if you're town, you can replace my slot for yours and still get the same number of possible teams because you know your own alignment but don't know mine.

It was a roundabout way of saying that NKA is rather unreliable to go on re a CoTW, yes.

VCA may be something good to look at.

VCA is a lategame tool that is more useful after we have scumflips. Titus can do magic with it, but for most people it's hit and miss. I don't think day 2 VCA is going to get us farther than "probably at least one scum voted for scorpious and at least one scum didn't" which, again, isn't going to help us narrow things down very much.

Hey y'all, apologies for the delay. I'm the Vice President of the Extra Life Jacksonville Guild and we had our big 24 Hour gaming marathon event yesterday from 8 am to this morning at 8 am. Plus, I did 12 hours at my fellowship on Friday. Apologies for that lack, but it was the weekend after all. I've got a few free days from now till Weds, and I expect to be fully caught up by then.

Okay, but your slot has done literally nothing all game so we really need to hear from you before the end of this day phase. Good luck with your offline stuff.


I'm going to make breakfast and do some ISOing now.

--P

[BeardedCat]

Knives are sharp. Be careful when washing them. This is not a crumb but a minor complaint about breakfast.

Ari's ISO.

I keep seeing fluff posts I want to vote him for and then reading the page number and realising it's only page 1-2.

In hindsight it's pretty suss that he voted dwlee for NOT tunnelling KT yet. Could Aristo be playing the role of Gabrilo Princip, sparking a TvT that would soon engulf all of europe?

Says he's unfamiliar with Bella's early game but he just got out of a game with Bella and me so he would have seen her early game there; he replaced in to that game on page 7. Compare/contrast her entry there with here. Her posts are signed -b.

It bothers me that he continues to fan the flames between KT and dwlee.

And then the prodging starts which worries me because he did that like 6 times in our last game together where he was scum.

778 is the first post of real substance from him. The tl;dr is -bastion +-scorp -kt -spiffeh +==dwlee -gummy -errant. He pushes Bastion some about his vote on scorpious but later shares reasons why he himself doesn't like scorpious.

He continues his catchup in his next post +beardedcat -tony -?cotw +spiff +kt -scorp.

And then he unvotes his rvs vote on dwlee.

He pushes on dwlee for attacking scorpious's ellipses usage which is a good point that dwlee was reaching, there. but I don't understand what he's saying about AtE:

I can't stand the dots you put after every post it makes me feel sad which is AtE. ;-;

...

You hate ellipses? What does that have to do with Scorp's alignment?

Also, not quite AtE, but I'll go along with that if you like.

I disagree with his nightkill analysis but otherwise his posts this day phase are less bad. Still, I see no reason not to lynch him.

Gonna read Bella next!

--P

[BeardedCat]

Hey Bella guess which head

Bella's entrance doesn't look all that out of the ordinary to me.

She tries to reach out to people a few times but sometimes they don't respond or sometimes they keep missing each other.

I don't like 177 because it seems more a playstyle based attack on gummy than anything. maybe because i talk like that too.

Her catchup looks lie any othrer catchup that she wrote while we were hydraing together as town. yeah, it's hard to read and a bit scattered but i think that's more to do with the way she formats it. I think if it were differently formatted and easier to follow along with, and less written in "note to self"format, nobody would take issue.

Spoiler: off topic

I want a hydra topic to sprawl in

bella you should /in to mod a mini normal it's really fun you just put 3-4 roles you personally would enjoy playing and call it a setup and then the reviewers will help balance it. then once you get pt access you can make yourself a pt for sprawling in. just with post tags, write the post out here and then hit preview and then copy so the post tags will go to the game thread not the pt. i have one that i keep my thoughts and rough drafts and opinions and stuff in for the games i'm soloing or looking to replace into.

i'm ok with the questions bella asks people. it looks like scumhunting.

this

still

bothers me:

Gummy, my gut is telling me scorp is town (and I explained about my not voting because of caution around sharing a wagon. MY head is telling me, though, that maybe he's struggling with dwlee/kt and that's affecting his play. He still seems awkward, though, and I'm lacking a clear progression of thought from him.

I'm prolly over cautious. Actually,
VOTE: scorp.

Wow we seem to have died a death. That kinda suggests scum are happy - a quiet town is a scum town.

i like this observation. what aspect do you think scum was happy with?

i don't feel like lynching Bella toDay. she's not strongly in my townpile but there's enough there to make me not want to lynch her and I know she's been busy offline this game. I'm not sure this conclusion really fits what I wrote above but that's because I didn't feel like padding out this wall with a string of "this post is okay" type thoughts, so I mostly mentioned stuff I had something to say about.

--P

[BeardedCat]

Skipping dwlee because i'm townreading him and i'm not going through 171 posts to say "yep still townreading him".

Errant

Unremarkable entrance.

In 171 she quotes Aristo saying that 1 of dwlee/KT could be scum and that it was probably KT. She asks why KT but then points out something by KT that she finds suspicious.

I agree with 251 that wordy posts are null, not scummy. I think she raises a good point about Rory in this post, attacking Aristo for something that Bella was doing too.

She tries to follow up with Rory in 287. I checked and he does follow up finally in 1125 but I don't like his follow up, especially where he complains that she's still voting him a week later when he hadn't been doing anything when in fact he had been prodging for 10 days and not answering her questions which is something, but I'll get to that when we get to his ISO.

In 454, she again tries to follow up with Rory and make him pay attention to her and answer her questions. I think this post would be improved by line breaks in between the paragraphs, or perhaps by bulletpoints or by not hitting enter at the end of each sentence, but these are all non alignment indicative stylistic complaints.

She says that she can't scumread Rory in this post "seeing as Rory hasn't actually responded to any of my points" which is odd (isn't a lack of response yet another reason to scumread him?) but it seems odd in a newbieish way. She seems to have about 5 completed games, 3 that she replaced out of, 1 that she was lynched day 1, and a newbie where she was endgamed. As such, lack of polish here and there doesn't worry me so much.

She then devotes a post to the scorp-kt-dwlee triangle. She also thinks that it was a TvT but thinks KT was the scummier half of the TvT, and she compares Rory's behaviour to kt's but doesn't think they're scum together. Do you still think this, errant, in light of the flips? if so, can you unpack it a bit for me?

she continues trying to engage Rory and get him to answer her questions.

I liked her question to me in 520.

Her frustration at being underinteracted witth seems genuine.

I like how she rises to the challenge bbt gave her in 725 and starts taking stances. i remember when i was new, i also telegraphed my uncertainty a bit too much because i was scared people might mistake me for someone who knew what they were talking about and sheep me to their doom.

i like her casual response to CotW's push.

She tries to engage Tony and continues trying to get something out of Rory and starts looking into Spiffeh, who'd been off her radar previously, who she townreads and starts to defend against Dwlee.

BBT and I had both been a bit AFK around then and she tries to follow up with us about her 725 which was a response to BBT's 649. I don't know if either of us did manage to follow through on that when we were both a bit v/la but my response is above and hopefully BBT will respond when he reappears!

Errant, what do you think of bastion today? Do you still feel that ari is a mislynch?

I don't really feel like lynching errant today either, though I'd like her to be doing more than she is and I'd like to know where her head is at today and what her reads look like.

I'm going to make lunch.

--P

[BeardedCat]

Hi Bella! BBT poked his head into sitechat for a little while earlier, he's been busy with good offline stuff, but we talked a little bit about the game. He's most suspicious of spiffeh today I think but he does promise to catch up properly soonish. We didn't talk about you but maybe he'll follow my lead on you?

Yeah it's hard differentiating between rl and scummy.

I ran out of steam earlier + playing catchup everywhere after being on v/la for 5 days but I'm hoping tomorrow to finish staring at ISOs. This game is my priority right now.

Errant is also in quite a few ongoing games that I didn't mention because ongoing games don't exist until they're completed (didn't check if alive or not even), but they still don't have much in the way of completed games yet. Still says goon over their name == still newish.

--P

[BeardedCat]

I was gonna do gummy next but their iso is fairly short so it won't take too long. tomorrow, though. it's almost bedtime now.

spiffeh and bastion are on the list too. and some other people. i'm skipping the ones that i'm pretty sure my read won't change.

--P

[BeardedCat]

I'm also here and still confused at why Aristophanes isn't being wagoned to oblivion!!

Mod note: BeardedCat is unable to vote today.

@Spiffeh I posted some thoughts on Ari's ISO.

I'm going to be ISOing some more people tomorrow (it's after midnight), including you (i know you asked us a bunch of stuff that we still haven't got to but we will) and stuff but we'll help push wagons we believe in even though we can't vote.

--P

[BeardedCat]

magic and mystery are part of their history along with the secret of gummmybeary juice

Casual entrance.

I like the way they probed into my early interactions with scorpious and that they detected my disapproval towards him in spite of my neutral responses. Sometimes I like to take stances in an understated way to see who is paying attention or to try to get more out of somebody before they put their guard up. I wasn't liking what I was seeing from scorpious but I didn't want to back him into a corner either.

He questions Bastion's vote on Sonic, claiming that Sonic is null because he hasn't done anything at all that can be read. I think this is a bit overly cautious because not doing anything to further the game state is a choice in and of itself and it's not a neutral action.

I like the start of his attempts to repair communication with dwlee and talking about his townread on dwlee, although I think it's premature to talk about what he'll scumread dwlee for doing, because it just warns dwlee what not to do or what to be wary of. He coaches dwlee some in this post in a similar way to how I coached scorpious, and I don't have a problem with olive branches of this nature.

Frustration with not being townread by bella feels genuine. Asking why he isn't being townread by someone familiar with his playstyle when he feels he's playing the same as last time is not something I can visualise new (perhaps first time?) scum doing, partially because newscum tends to be a bit self conscious and aware of the ways in which their play is differing from their townplay in ways they can't help. It's also ballsy to be asking KT "why is ms scum? why aren't you scumreading me for the same thing?" I disagree that gummmy was doing the same thing that MS was doing, their ISOs look completely different to my eyes, but I don't see newscum approaching someone like this. This is town.

I like the questions and follow up questions in 462.

re: 495, there's an easier way of doing that thing!

Code: Select all

[post]495[/post]

links to post number 495 in this thread. You don't have to copy the URL of the link to the post and do

Code: Select all

[post=#7324511]7324511[/post]

if you don't want to.

It seems like his primary objection to the day 1 Aristophanes wagon was that Ari was v/la and unable to defend himself.

How do you feel about the Aristophanes wagon today?

nevermind, answered in 1199.

I liked his attempts to make sense of our argument with MS and later with CotW, which can't have been easy, and I like the depth of his push on us in this and subsequent posts. I feel like newbie scum in this situation would want to stay under the radar here, afraid of being scumhunted successfully. Another temperment of newbie scum might try to fan the flames a little (and would do it awkwardly and transparently) but gummmy isn't doing that either. He's trying to make sense of what's going on and taking a stance firmly in a way that read to me more like lending support the side he believes is just, not adding more fuel.

I don't know if i'm making sense; i have a migraine today.

Oh wait cancel that on the MS v BC, missed your earlier post. So you think bad logic = likely to be scum? And good logic = likely to be town?

I checked and we didn't reply to this yet. I think that scum can sometimes be more likely to use flawed logic because they do have to paint a townsperson as being scum when they're not, so they have to argue that however somebody is behaving is a scumtell when in fact it's something that town does too. I think it's possible to play scum being the voice of reason and logic and sanity but for some reason or another plenty of people don't play it that way. Both alignments play sloppily at times, but I think when scum is being sloppy in their logic it shows a little because they don't really believe what they're saying.

1104 annoys me a bit because bbt and I both had offline stuff that was getting in the way of our activity towards the end of last day phase and the beginning of this one and gummy was against an Ari lynch earlier citing his inactivity and then went after us for inactivity. But I don't think he's scum for it.

The deadline scramble happened on a weekend when I was having trouble using language and it was really frustrating and BBT and I talked about how we didn't want another deadline scramble, we wanted a nice clean push earlier in the day phase and then I had to be v/la for half the day phase due to health stuff and here we are coming up on the deadline in 2 days again. Mafia is stressful.

I'm okay with gummmy's behaviour in and around the deadline scramble.

I like him asking Bastion not to flavourfish us.

1199, his lynchlist today, is the first i see him mentioning Errant in his ISO. Also, last I heard, in 911 he was townreading spiffeh, or at least liking the posts he was making, so I'm curious how spiffeh ended up on the lynch list today.

I'll be reading spiffeh and bastion next in some order (but not tonight).

Not interested in lynching gummmy today.

--P

[BeardedCat]

why, when the goal is to sort the slots that i'm not sure about? the deadline is in a couple days, i have a limited amount of time, i'm skipping my townreads, but slots that i'm not sure about or slots that i'm having doubts about, second thoughts about, those are the slots i need to focus on. i went into gummy's ISO not knowing if i wanted them lynched today or not, now i know that i don't. been working through spiffeh's today.

I've just got too many questionmarks is all after the last week, and I can't vote anyway. I'm not opposed to any of the current wagons at the moment and we really need to consolidate soon.

There was a vote count on the last page, posted on Monday. The current wagons look like this:

Aristophanes (L-4)

- Spiffeh, Dwlee99

Sir Bastion (L-4)

- pignash, Bellaphant

Spiffeh (L-5)

- gummmybear


--P

[BeardedCat]

dwlee, if you want to lynch Ari, you're going to need to convince four more people to vote for him.

starbuck, a naked vote is when you vote somebody but you don't say why you're voting them, it's just a post with a vote in it. some naked votes aren't really naked because the person had posted a case previously.

liking the catchup so far and your reads are fairly similar to what I remember mine being at the time. think i'm gonna go back to my early townread on your slot; i was scum together with Rory in a previous game and I had an early townlean on him because in this game he was sounding really relaxed and casual in a way that he was not capable of doing as scum back in July/August and his comments made some amount of sense. I started worrying about his activity levels in this game because in that one he prodged a lot too, but he replaced out of all of his games at once due to real life stuff so that's not alignment indicative.

--P

[BeardedCat]

Spiffeh

hi

Spiffeh's entrance bothers me because I think first time scum are more likely to do a "not stepping on anybody's toes" entrance like this one. This was noteworthy enough that I actually just went through his completed games to verify something, and he has both never been scum before and his town entrances are better.

Spoiler: spiffeh's entrance posts in all his completed games

Subject: Newbie 1635: Brisket (Game Over)

Hi I'm here!

VOTE: LicketyQuickety

OMG your name is fantastic.

Mini 1726

VOTE: Davs(cum)o

I kinda meant Dav(scum)to that looks bad otherwise.

Subject: NY 188: Delicious Mafia II (Post-game chatter)

Hi I'm here!

VOTE: ika have you seen Big Brother Canada?

I hated Ika.

Subject: NY 189 - Flower Viewing Festival [~fin~]

VOTE: AxleGreaser

Subject: Mini Normal 1711: Flavor not required. D2 deadline: 9/29/15

VOTE: JeanDarc fourth on the /confirm wagon.

Micro 537

VOTE: borkjerfkin host of my first game here <3

Antihero vs FakeGod

Fink is town.
CB is tryhard scum.
VOTE: CB

mini 1714

VOTE: I Am Not Varsoon

blitz 2

Firebringer's confirm was a scum post.

Discuss.

Three-Pronged Trouser God Mafia (replacement)

Catching up rn thanks for making it doable!

Massclaim is bad.
Don't like NakedJogger's post 91 where he RVS's when things are actually happening.
At least Anenineneneminen gave a reason for it.
Actually lots of people do it maybe it's not alignment indicative? I still don't like it personally.
Don't like Titus' self meta in post 145.
Gork is obvtown for all of his posts ever.
JK Titus is town for post 204.
Hate Jaqen's post 226. "Someone give me something to talk about" usually comes from newbs or scum in my experience, and Jaqen's posting does not indicate the former. I feel it was a bit of an over the top "I need to catch up" post.
Townread on White Narcissus for taking the words out of my mouth multiple times.

The rest I'll read more in depth later. RN I think scum are among the less active, but I can tell a lot of you will be difficult for me to read.
VOTE: Jaqen

so, clearly, some of these entrances are better than others but all of them are better, more information gatherative, more townier, than "hi"

His explanation for his errant vote is okay and plausible. I disagree with him here because I think hydraing with someone can give you some unique insight into the way they approach the game, though it depends on the hydra and how often you synched and how often you explained your thoughts to each other and what alignment the hydra was and how many times you've hydraed together. I think Bella is more likely to catch me as scum than a random person. But I don't think this disagreement is alignment indicative for him.

Buddies CotW some in 154.

He whiteknights KT some, which CotW notes in 218. I'm townreading that slot now too but at the time things were more murky I think.

I like the transparency of thought process in 371, but I'm the head that likes reads lists . I didn't agree with all of his thoughts as he was making them but I could see how he arrived at the conclusions he was arriving at. He has quite a few early townreads and seems to process of elimination himself towards a scumteam of ari/errant/scorpious.

Spiffeh, how has scorpious' townflip affected your process of elimination?

Spoiler: here are some things i townread and why

I provided a reads list because I just finished reading the thread and

had concrete opinions on a lot of people which is new for me

and I wasn't around early on to actively form reads that way.

I can really relate to this feeling because I'm also a newer player, having joined just 4 months before spiffeh did, and I remember very keenly the feeling of "holy shit i actually have opinions! what is happening to me? am i growing up as a player???" I had that feeling the first few times I started having opinions as town, and then I have that feeling again whenever it happens earlier than I'm accustomed to, which lately is happening on page 1-2.

I feel like this delight at improving a town aspect of his gameplay (the ability to form reads) is townish because if he's scum, he's basically taking delight at his new found ability to

fake

having reads on page 16 which is cheeky/ballsy/funny/etc if true.

I like him trying to get his scumreads to comment on each other in 502 and 525.

Did you get anything out of their replies to that, spiff?

Spoiler: here are some things i scumread but a lot of this was ground that was covered at the time i thought

Him scumreading me but townreading BBT is weird because I'm always the townhead in my hydra and my other head is always the scumhead but I think I already complained about this (and already refuted the notion that he was catapulted into a townread. I'd already been townreading him and then the townread had grown stronger around then.)

He naked votes Ari but 7 posts later says that he thinks Scorpious should the ultimate lynch. This worries me because I remember his twilight "scorpious is probably town" posting.

Okay, I'm remembering why we were scumreading him. He was really good up until this point and showed lots of thought processes that looked townier than not but then there's posts like 727 which are bad and I know I already complained about this at the time but it still bothers me. You have to take things in the context in which they happen.

Spoiler: this is rehashing why metal sonic was scummy for comparing bbt's inactivity to ari's inactivity and spiffeh completely ignored that context in his push on us

The context was that somebody was lurking and ignoring the thread while they were posting actively in other games. I think it was Ari. and people were calling that scummy. They were saying that Ari is scum because Ari is ignoring this thread and posting elsewhere.

And then Metal Sonic comes out of nowhere and says that BBT is also not posting in this thread. And yes that was literally true that my other head wasn't posting in this thread, but unlike Ari, BBT wasn't posting anywhere on the site and that wasn't mentioned. The context of that statement was comparing his alignment to ari's alignment. It wasn't a statement just dropped into the void. It was intended to paint BBT as being just as scummy as Ari because neither were posting here because of the context in which it was said and the timing of the statement.

To put it another way, suppose some person walked in and said "I think scum are more likely to choose blue avatars than other colours, so scorpious is probably scum". And in response, I said "you know, spiffeh has a blue avatar." Now it's literally true that you have a blue avatar, just like scorpious does. And it's true that I didn't call you for scum for it, I just casually mentioned that you also happen to have a blue avatar. And it's preposterous that someone actually thinks having a blue avatar is a scumtell. but if you read between the lines it's very clear that a response of "spiffeh has a blue avatar" is agreeing that blue avatars are scummy. because otherwise why even make that statement?

And that's what metal sonic did. Except that unlike Ari, BBT wasn't posting anywhere on the site, he was (And still is) busy with offline stuff.

Fittingly, I don't really think that "posting elsewhere, not posting here" is all that great of a scumtell. I prioritise my games primarily based on deadline so this game is getting most of my attention and that doesn't mean anything about my alignment elsewhere. sometimes a game rises or falls in my priority list based on other factors, but it's stuff like "ugh my friend got lynched in a stupid rvs wagon before he could even respond to the rvs joke i spent 3 days crafting. fuck this game." never "ugh not another town role pm whyyyyy".

But some people do think it's a scumtell and metal sonic used it to tie bbt's sitewide inactivity to aristophanes' game-specific inactivity and that was scummy of metal sonic and your ignoring the context in which metal sonic's statement occurred was suspicious to me.

I don't want to rehash the playstyle based attacks argument.

Spiffeh was one of the main people pushing the scorpious lynch.



See, I like 801 again. It's better. His response to BBT is okay. His response to why he was moving his vote around and it landed on us was okay. a few concerns though.

I guess it's a little unfair if you actually read this as a serious post, but I am confused why you took a post starting with "EW" so seriously in the first place.

What did you meant to convey by "EW" if not "I have a serious scumread on the author of this scumpost"?

Just because you took the stance in a lighthearted manner does not negate that it was a stance.

The obvious difference here is that Aristophanes was NEVER around and Scorpious disappeared after he was taking heat and people had piled votes on him. If you don't see the difference there than I don't know what to tell you.

You're clearly capable of recognising context when it suits you to. Ari was differently inactive than scorpious was and you use this to make some sort of point about which of them is more likely to be scum. But when I said that BBT was differently inactive to Ari I was reaching, even though I knew BBT's alignment. ok.

I like a lot of his shorter posts where he's just asking people questions. The questions are good enough as far as questions go and sometimes he's trying to get follow up from people so that's nice. I haven't been mentioning or linking these because this post is too long already and I've been writing it for over two days at this point.

I am defending MS because Plot's vote on him was scummy and they are either completely misunderstanding what I thought was pretty clear or they are trying to misrepresent Sonic's ONE THROW-AWAY comment to justify voting for him which is what I'm leaning towards.

idk maybe this whole thing is just one big misunderstanding because from our perspective it was you misunderstanding what we thought was pretty clear.

I really wish we could have done some communication repair work earlier but these past two weeks I have been having even more trouble communicating than usual (fluctuating between "can't get any words out at all" and "here's a sea of words maybe some of them mean what i'm trying to say") and it is what it is. my communication stuff is entirely offline stuff and it's something you have to work around when reading me, not something to read stuff into and it's really hard for me to avoid scumread people who try to read stuff into it anyway.

ugh i'm rehashing the playstyle attacks thing. stoppp.

Spoiler: here are some thoughts about his response to CotW's case on him

909 is a response to CotW's case on spiffeh. I disagreed with some of their points against him because for example I didn't have any trouble with his saying "ew" and voting people because I could see where he was coming from at the time and yeah it was pretty early on.

I think they had a good point about the early whiteknighting of KT's slot. I am townreading him now but this was back when KT was tunnelling dwlee, before he started scumhunting vigorously. I think his age did matter, though. Not to his alignment of course, but to the maturity level we could expect from him, to what our expectations level should be.

An eleven year old is going to write a less coherent case than a thirty year old. Their play may be more emotional and less mature. Logical fallacies and not thinking things through aren't neccessarily going to be scummy. I was babysitting a nondisabled thirteen year old a few years ago and he started to walk out into traffic without looking both ways and I had to pull him back by his shirt while a driver slammed on the brakes. He wasn't hit, luckily.

Thinking things through, looking before you leap, arguing with logic that makes sense to adults, these things might be too much to expect from that slot. Luckily, there's dwlee who has meta reasons to read KT and the current occupant of the slot is...calmer.

Too often in games we just lynch people because they're new and don't know what they're doing and we mistake that for scum and the people trying to guard against that are written off as whiteknighters.


I'm getting sidetracked aren't I.

The next bit is okay but then CotW attacks him for having too many scumreads and then he doesn't understand why that's a scumtell. It's a scumtell because it's keeping the mislynch pool open too wide if you think everyone is scum. But in your early readslist you had most people as town and were just scumreading a few people, so maybe what happened is that you developped new scumreads on some people you'd previously been townreading without re-evaluating previous scumreads.

I think I'm mostly okay with the post, though.

I like him trying to get something out of dwlee after that post.

I like his question to bastion in 1055 but I think he was still supporting the scorpious lynch (with his voice, not his vote) at the time.

I like the frustration with buzzwords in 1058 because people throw buzzwords at my playstyle too.

Him starting to cautiously townread me in 1066 feels like natural townish reads progression too.

I want to know what BBT head thinks of CotW now.

I don't know what he thought at the time because he wasn't here at all. I've had one conversation with him this day phase, too. I think this is mostly going to be me with him chiming in here and there.

1071 worries me again because it feels like he's positioning himself to go after Aristophanes if Scorpious flips town. I means stuff like:

Like it uses words like "odd" and "weird" to describe Scorpious and it makes me think he is throwing that stuff in there so he doesn't have to commit but also has an excuse to hop on the wagon later.

But he outright says this later in the post:

This all makes me less comfortable with voting Scorpious and I think Aristophanes should really be an option we consider.

ugh I don't even know i've been staring at this ISO too long and my read on him is all over the place, fits of towniness and posts that

really

don't seem like they'd come from scum and then stuff that worries me all over again and then stuff that I remember being upset about at the time makes me upset again but then it was patched over and repaired and it was okay.

I guess 1071 makes me feel a little better about:

Condensing. Not my preferred lynch but it's better than none at all.

VOTE: Scorpious L-1

I feel like this is gonna be a mislynch

which was still pretty EW but at least it didn't come completely out of left field but he'd been telegraphing it for a while? but he was preparing for it really early

deadline scrambles are hard because it's so easy to hide in them.


He's spent this day phase tunnelling ari which I'm okay with because that's one of the lynches i'm okay with but oh hey i'm done with this ISO sweet. I don't know how to make this post shorter. I don't know what parts i can delete without changing the meaning. i tried putting bold on the questions and spoilering stuff that seemed to be grouped together.

tl;dr:

my read on spiffeh is that i neither feel like driving a wagon against him not do I feel like resisting his wagon if one forms against him. There's town stuff in here and scum stuff in here and some of his posts feel really townie but i can see scum motivation in others and I just don't know. gun to the head, very weak townlean of the "not scum just sloppy" variety but I don't even know.

I disliked his entrance, then roughtly posts 200-700ish were towny and then didn't like the way he interacted with the BC-CotW-MS triangle but I did like the communication repair efforts in the aftermath of that, and then I worried about the behaviour around the scorpious lynch but I'm okay with the Aristophanes tunnel toDay.

--P

[BeardedCat]

unofficial vote count

Sir Bastion (L-2) - pignash, Errantparabola, TonyMontana, Spiffeh,
Spiffeh (L-5) - gummmybear,
Aristophanes (L-4) - Sir Bastion, dwlee99

Not voting (4) - Aristophanes, Starbuck, BeardedCat, Bellaphant,

6 to lynch, deadline (expired on 2015-11-13 22:00:00)

I'm happyish with the bastion and ari wagons. not happy with running other people up this close to the deadline.

--P

[BeardedCat]

Um. I must have miscounted. I'll try again. This time with post links.

--P

[BeardedCat]

unofficial vote count

Aristophanes (L-1)

- Sir Bastion, TonyMontana, Spiffeh, Dwlee99, gummmybear

Sir Bastion (L-4)

- pignash, Errantparabola

Not voting (4)

- Aristophanes, Starbuck, BeardedCat, Bellaphant

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. (expired on 2015-11-13 22:00:00)

Okay, I think this one's right. I have no idea what happened earlier; i think i copy pasted onto the wrong line before. the ones without post links are unchanged since the last official votecount.

--P

[BeardedCat]

BBT got caught up during the night phase. He did his catchup in our hydra pt. He's said he'll be more active this day phase and feels bad about missing an entire day phase. I'm just going to share his thoughts as I understand them because while I think he wants to be active, I'm not sure how active he'll actually be because of real life stuff.

He didn't like dwlee's 1159. He didn't say why, but my guess would be that since scum know the gender composition of the scumteam, and probably have fakeclaims anyway, it would be easier for scum to manipulate the lynchpool to their liking than for town to get something meaningful out it.

He liked Tony's 1167. I like it too because spiffeh basically does the same thing again about Ari's lynch that he did about Scorpious'.

BBT thought that Dwlee's 1190 looked like he was softing a guilty on ari to help the lynch go through. It makes sense for scum to want to do that by softing instead of outright claiming because of plausible deniability after the person flips town.

He liked 1195 from Bella and wrote that it seemed Bella and gummmy also thought dwlee was softing a guilty. On page 48, he was townreading Bella, Tony, and gummmy and scumreading dwlee and that wihle he knew ari had flipped town, he wouldn't have been townreading him at that time.

BBT didn't like Spiffeh's Ari push in 1218, calling it baseless.

Spiff, did you also think dwlee had a guilty?

He said that he agrees with Spiffeh in 1221 that setupspec/rolespec is scummy but doesn't think it's good enough reason to have someone as your top scumread.

BBT didn't like pignash's 1223 because of the "oh no i lost my post" thing. I think it's encouraging that pignash did produce a substantial post soon after that; I think it's a bigger scumtell if someone does "oh no i lost my post" and leaves it at that. He liked pignash's bastion case in 1236, and I liked it too.

He says that in 1228, Dwlee is working backwards: he's already scumreading someone so he makes a case to fit that, looking at things to support his already existing scumread. He was scumreading Aristo before Aristo did those things and then he went and found reasons.

BBT didn't like Dwlee's 1238 because he remembered him scumreading spiffeh but I just went back through dwlee's ISO and it seemed this wasn't a sudden 180, he unvoted spiffeh for something or other about 300 posts before that (probably sometime in day 1).

dwlee, can you talk some about your read on spiffeh and how it has evolved over the course of the game, please?

BBT liked star's 1254, 1255, and 1262. I also have been enjoying the depth of star's catchups and for me it's refreshing my memory of what happened in the thread and is reminding me of things that I thought at the time.

I wish he had responded to her points in detail, though

(bolded so he'll see when he next catches up).

I'll just reply myself to 1270 and he can add his opinions when he gets here. I do now think that it was a TvT with sonic, I've done some rereading this morning and I saw some things that I missed at the time which I don't want to elaborate on because it would be antitown but I think we just misread stuff. I agree that it would have been better to reply to sonic's points in more depth; BBT's just kind of like that. I think I may have replied myself later after BBT did? I hope I did anyway.

You also asked if we still think there's 1 scum in [cotw, spiffeh] now that cotw has flipped town and BBT certainly does still seem to think that, in spite of something that we did both notice that I think would be antitown to elaborate on if we're wrong. BBT seems pretty confident in this read whereas for me it gives me pause and I feel like I'm saying too much but I don't know how to reply to this elsewise so I'm just burying these thoughts in a wall that nobody's going to read anyway; I think that in this game the town are reading more closely than the scum are anyway. My own opinions are more complicated but I think basically that either spiff is scum or the scumteam are newbs. Also, gummmy was pretty vocal against spiffeh all throughout day 2 and that may have scared him.

BBT wanted to know who Tony didn't like on Bastion's wagon in 1266 because he was scumreading Bastion at the time.

He thought that Spiffeh again claiming it's going to be a mislynch right before ari was lynched in 1282 was bad, and that trying to flashwagon Bella when we'd already had 2 VTs claims was rolefishing.

He didn't get why dwlee unvoted in 1283.

dwlee, why did you unvote?

I think he was conflicted about 1288 and 1296 from Bastion. He liked some things about them, saying they seemed genuine, but he also said he'd normally attribute posts like that to scum.

He liked 1293 from Bella and says he's still liking her this game, but then he didn't like 1306 because it was creating more paranoia right around the deadline when we really did just need a lynch.

He didn't like 1313 form Spiffeh, because it looked like asking permission to start a tony wagon, testing the waters.

BBt wants pignash to elaborate on 1318 and what he found scummy about spiffeh's last few posts there.


BBT townreading bella is kind of making me paranoid of bella >.>

Ugh, so, voteless doesn't necessarily mean town, because scum would be conf!towning a lot of people by day 4. If it is a different role, are there any advantages of claiming? I'm assuming BC's vote is back now?

Yeah, well, I'm town and starbuck is townposting, and I don't want to go back on this townread just because of WIFOM about votelessness.

I guess one thing that occurred to me is that maybe if it is a townrole then they might be scared to admit it because in Titus' large there was a governor who used their role really badly, letting townlynches go through and governing scum lynches, and taking the full 48 hours to make their decision each time for maximum apathy, and the loudest voices in the town spent like 5 day phases screaming about the scum governor and how we had to hunt them down and lynch them. And finally on day 6 we ran up this one guy and he said he was scared to claim his role. He was the town governor. lol. He wasn't scum, he was just bad at mafia.

But it still feels like scum role because it's the louder, more confident people that are having their votes removed. It'd be interesting to see where and how this continues.

Anyway, yeah I can vote today:

VOTE: spiffeh


--P

[BeardedCat]

oh wow, I didn't remember he only had one vote on him at that time.

--P

[BeardedCat]

sure dwlee, that's reasonable.

Spoiler: bbt's points that were about/aimed at dwlee

BBT didn't like dwlee's 1159. He didn't say why, but my guess would be that since scum know the gender composition of the scumteam, and probably have fakeclaims anyway, it would be easier for scum to manipulate the lynchpool to their liking than for town to get something meaningful out it.


BBT thought that Dwlee's 1190 looked like he was softing a guilty on ari to help the lynch go through. It makes sense for scum to want to do that by softing instead of outright claiming because of plausible deniability after the person flips town.



BBT says that in 1228, Dwlee is working backwards: he's already scumreading someone so he makes a case to fit that, looking at things to support his already existing scumread. He was scumreading Aristo before Aristo did those things and then he went and found reasons.


BBT didn't like Dwlee's 1238 because he remembered him scumreading spiffeh but I just went back through dwlee's ISO and it seemed this wasn't a sudden 180, he unvoted spiffeh for something or other about 300 posts before that (probably sometime in day 1).

dwlee, can you talk some about your read on spiffeh and how it has evolved over the course of the game, please?

BBT didn't get why dwlee unvoted in 1283.

dwlee, why did you unvote?

--P

[BeardedCat]

@Bella: yeah, no kidding. but he liked most of your day 2 posts.

yes, all dudes so far.

dwlee and bastion and I have claimed female.

--P

[BeardedCat]

Well it was more BBT's read than mine (my read on you yesterDay was a very long winded "i don't even know but i don't want to lynch this today in case i figure it out later") but whatever.

I'm done with subtlety especially since you're going back to VT slipping. Why would scum shoot us when you crumbed that you were protecting us? Why did you crumb that you were protecting us after you VT slipped? Why didn't scum shoot you when you crumbed doc-or-jailkeeper? Is it because you're scum? You practically said that you were protecting us and now you're attacking us for not dying.

It looked like you were setting up a doc-or-jailkeeper claim which is the easiest fake claim for scum, but now you've gone back to not caring whether you're lynched (which is a VT only mindset) and I think the two in combination means that you're scum abandoning a fakeclaim, not town who can't remember whether they're a PR or VT from one post to the next.

That said, I'm not in a hurry, we have another 9 days to discuss this.

--P

[BeardedCat]

Also I don't think I even VT slipped but isn't you acknowledging that I VT slipped mean you think I'm town?

But you're voting for me?

So you're scum, yes?

I think "you can lynch me if you wanna i don't care" is something that can either come from a true VT or is something that scum will do to look like they're not being survivalistic. True PRs are more likely to say "you can try to wagon me but I'm not getting lynched" and scum preparing for a PR claim may do that too sometimes. Scum who hasn't made up their minds which way they want to go, or scum who have changed their minds about which way they're going to go, may wind up doing both.

I'm voting you, so I am scumreading you.

It's possible BBT forgot about your day 1 posts, or it's possible the hindsight of knowing how Ari flipped made BBT think you looked bad.

Do you think dwlee was softing a guilty on Ari or were you continuing with your day 1 Ari read?

--P

[BeardedCat]

I've townslipped as scum before. It doesn't mean anything. I was implying that you were intentionally VT slipping as scum.

I'm not discarding all of it today, though I'm taking into account subsequent events of course.

I know my ISO post on you in particular was long because I was trying to figure you out and I didn't quite succeed.

Does this look like I have a confident townread (or even a confident townlean) on you?

tl;dr:

my read on spiffeh is that i

neither feel like driving a wagon against him nor do I feel like resisting his wagon if one forms against him

. There's town stuff in here and scum stuff in here and

some of his posts feel really townie

but

i can see scum motivation in others

and I just don't know.

gun to the head, very weak townlean of the "not scum just sloppy" variety but I don't even know.

I

disliked his entrance

, then roughtly posts 200-700ish were towny and then

didn't like the way he interacted with the BC-CotW-MS triangle

but I did like the communication repair efforts in the aftermath of that, and then I

worried about the behaviour around the scorpious lynch

but I'm okay with the Aristophanes tunnel toDay.

I was more okay with the Aristophanes tunnel before he flipped town and I was also more okay with you before gummmy was nightkilled.

--P

[BeardedCat]

Ugh, so, voteless doesn't necessarily mean town, because scum would be conf!towning a lot of people by day 4. If it is a different role, are there any advantages of claiming? I'm assuming BC's vote is back now?

I would have thought the exact same thing - if I didn't know we were town and think that Star is very likely town. I think the only way it makes sense is if it's a limited shot or there is some sort of condition on it because I agree that scum would be conf-towning a lot of people by repeatedly doing this.

He didn't like dwlee's 1159. He didn't say why, but my guess would be that since scum know the gender composition of the scumteam, and probably have fakeclaims anyway, it would be easier for scum to manipulate the lynchpool to their liking than for town to get something meaningful out it.

Confirming that this is the reason I dislike Dwlee's post.

BBT didn't like Spiffeh's Ari push in 1218, calling it baseless.

This is something I felt I needed to look into. I felt like Spiffeh was just posting 'Ari is scum' over and over and I couldn't remember any reasoning he gave.

BBT didn't like pignash's 1223 because of the "oh no i lost my post" thing.

Yeah, this was pretty bad. I realise Plot is cutting slack for some post afterwards but I'm not. I think that's the laziest (read: scummiest) way to catch up in a game. A townie would simply rewrite what they wrote (albeit a much shorter version) but would still share their thoughts.

BBT liked star's 1254, 1255, and 1262.

I wish he had responded to her points in detail, though

(bolded so he'll see when he next catches up).

It's quite simple really. I read his posts and I find that I'm nodding my head at near enough everything I read, and when that happens it's usually because they're town.

You also asked if we still think there's 1 scum in [cotw, spiffeh] now that cotw has flipped town and BBT certainly does still seem to think that

Yeah, Spiffeh is almost certainly scum. 1275 in particular pings now that gummy is dead, it's quite clear where gummy would have been heading coming into D3.

I think he was conflicted about 1288 and 1296 from Bastion. He liked some things about them, saying they seemed genuine, but he also said he'd normally attribute posts like that to scum.

Yeah, I really don't know how to explain this. It should probably be null overall but I still kinda town read him for them. Something about them feels genuine, that's all I can say. Usually, I would go after someone pretty hard for posts like these but, meh, dunno.

@plot, bbt town reading me makes me paranoid as well! I'll reply to your points later and I need to go back and read the vt debate thing.

I know, it's making me paranoid! Have I finally learnt to read you? Nah, can't be that. I'm probably scum.

In hindsight, I feel no better about Bella, and Starbuck summaries of the game give me nothing either way.

I find this difficult to digest - walk me through it.

Yeah BC not being dead probs means they're scum js

I fully expect to be lynched today so just remember that when I flip.

Not to mention Plot town reading me yesterday and completely tossing that read to the wayside.

Here we go again. Guys, just lynch me. I'm so town that I don't give a fuck.

Please do as the guy asks and lynch him.

~BBT

[BeardedCat]

I was wrong about pignash's slot. I did overlook a bunch with him because KT had these bursts of vigorous scumhunting that I consider to be towntells in newer players.

I should be happy that we've got 1 scum down, and I am, but Bella was the last player alive that I knew before the game started and I'll miss her.

It's late and I'm tired and I'm a bit overextended, but some things should be wrapping up soon. I'm sorry I've been sparse.

I need to reread KT/pignash/spiffeh and see if they make sense together or not.

What I don't want is another deadline scramble. We have a week left but let's try not to take the entire week this time.

--P

[BeardedCat]

Why do you think KT flipping scum makes dwlee more likely to be town?

--P

[BeardedCat]

I didn't actually remember what your stance on KT was without looking, and it's after midnight, so I hadn't looked yet. (I remember now that you've said.)

KT scum flip doesn't look great for me either, but that youthful exuberance was really convincing. I'm not going to push you for being convinced by the same thing I was convinced by, that'd be dumb. If I push you it'll be for other things. When I'm awake, though.

--P

[BeardedCat]

i'm not feeling tony wagon either.


--P

[BeardedCat]

VOTE: bastion

Code: Select all

   /|
  / |
 /  |
/ role

vvv(\/)vvvv

--P

[BeardedCat]

oh! That makes a lot of sense.

It's just with the gender claims that are already out there, I'm worried that too much more gender claiming could PoE the remaining mason(s).

--P

[BeardedCat]

V/LA until Monday.

I'm sorry; something's come up offline. I'm not going to be completely afk, but I can't predict right now whether I'll be able to give this game the attention it deserves this weekend.

x-posted to all my games.

(technically just this head is v/la but i have no idea where my other head is or if he'll be posting so I'm putting the entire hydra on v/la. maybe he'll pleasantly surprise us, though.)

--P

[BeardedCat]

Alright, I'm here and catching up.

1. I don't see that as scummy at all. I'm curious because people have claimed guy/girl and it could of been useful.
2. Nothing I can really say here, imo. It looks like that but it wasn't that. If I was attempting to soft a guilty explain the unvote in 1283
3. It was a progression from my read earlier of Ari on day 1.
4. I don't recall D1 but I liked his D2 as I agreed with him about Ari's slot and he just seemed townie overall.
5. Ari showed a sudden surge of towniness with his post in 1278.

1. Well, it is? That's really the only response I can come up with for you.
2. I don't know...maybe you forgot you had softed a guilty?
3. When you explained your Aristo read, you explained it using things that had happened AFTER you stated your scum read. You haven't addressed this.
5. What was townie about 1278?

Yeah the fact that Plot and BBT have to harp on how the night kill points to me makes me confident in my vote.

BC just spoon feed your scumbuddies reasons to vote for me already

We're trying but they're not following us! Do you have any other suggestions for us to try?

The NK really does point to you though. Like, really badly.

~BBT

[BeardedCat]

TonyMontana is a bad vote.

Why the sudden change in read?

looking through kt"s iso and seeing this lol

Why did you post this Dwlee?

~BBT

[BeardedCat]

I think it's BC and Starbuck I see literally no other options.

You should explain both scum reads.

I will compromise lynch starbuck.

Why?

VOTE: Starbuck

You seemed pretty convinced that we're scum...is Starbuck more scummy? Are we less scummy? What's changed?

~BBT

[BeardedCat]

I already posted why in response to starbuck, bc.
UNVOTE: Tony
Was there a mason flip? I cannot remember.

This is not town.

I agree with this.

unvote

No one is counterclaiming and MS did breadcrumb it (or outright claim it) on day 1 329

I assume then you are Remus?

Okay, so you were paying enough attention to notice there was a mason who flipped Romulus, and Remus is the other obvious choice for the remaining mason, and Remus is a male name, and because of all the gender claims the mason pool was [starbuck, tony, spiffeh] at that point, but because they crumbed it, it was clear enough that it was Tony. Still, there was some hope that the scumteam hadn't figured all that out. And yet you asked Starbuck to confirm her gender, removing her from the mason pool.

Then you are wrong, tony. lol
VOTE: Nolynch

I know you've unvoted by now, but no lynch with a confirmed town is not a good play because it doesn't give us any information; the confirmed town will just be nightkilled. No lynch is the right play when there are town looking players but nobody is confirmed because we can do nightkill analysis.


I'm caught up and I'm happy lynching Spiffeh, Bastion, and dwlee. In that order pretty much.

Deadline is in (expired on 2015-11-25 22:00:00). Please don't let's deadline scramble for the third day in a row.

--P

[BeardedCat]

I agree.

VOTE: Spiffeh

--P

[BeardedCat]

No lynch is always the right option even with a confirmed town because power roles can do stuff during the night. My most recent completed game didn't have a cop but there's almost always one.

Call of the Wild - Eliot Ness - Town Gender Cop - Killed Night 1

--P

[BeardedCat]

(expired on 2015-11-25 22:00:00)

Come on, guys, get it together.



spiffeh: the nka wasn't the foundation, it was just an extra point. We didn't misrep MS, we just took something too personally and overreacted. It happens.

I don't understand the case against Starbuck, it feels like it's mostly just preflip associatives with us. Being without a vote is pretty demotivating, too. It was hard for us on day 2. If we don't see more from her tomorrow then we can poke her but I've explained my townread on that slot already.

Bella has a lot of history with both BBT and me and has hydraed with both of us. Sometimes when players know each other really well, games get a little weird. Look at how Titus and Sonic interacted.

pedit: just hammer him, dwlee. no lynch isn't the right choice.

--P

[BeardedCat]

I used the automatic countdown thing; it changes when you reload the page. Currently it says that there are 57 minutes left, so yeah about an hour.

--P

[BeardedCat]

Saturday is a busy day for me and I've run out of mafia time for the day but I will be here tomorrow and ISOing people.

--P

[BeardedCat]

bastion claimed earlier when he was wagonned. he claimed VT. I'm a VT as well.

my offline life is kicking me in the shins right now, and today and tomorrow especially I'm not sure how much use I'm going to be but I'll try. Reading me on tone right now will be a mistake.


About the VCA, we would have been on Ari too if we'd had a vote; it was a deadline lynch on someone we weren't townreading. Some of this is playstyle.

A lot of dwlee's vca is just information instead of analysis. he describes how the votes move around but doesn't say what it means.

this stood out:

Spoiler: 1.15

"Well, the Northerners rebelled, so he undertook the Harrying of the North, yes. It was pretty brutal."

"Yeah, but he also introduced the Domesday Book, sir, which is the basis of the Government Census that they undertake every so often," Liah piped up again.

"Correct. Well done. So again - some good, some bad. Life isn't that easy!"

Votecount 1.15:

Scorpious

(3) - Sir Bastion,

KTTheCreeper

,

TonyMontana

Aristophanes

(3 - Rory,

Spiffeh

, Dwlee99

TonyMontana

(3) -

Call of the Wild

, BeardedCat,

Bellphant

BeardedCat (1) -

Gummmybear

Sir Bastion (1) -

Scorpious

Rory (1) - Errantparabola

Not voting (1) -

Aristophanes

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch. The deadline is at 8am GMT on Monday 2nd November 2015.

Both hydrae need to stop posting on their own accounts. Please.

Bellphant

is v/la until Monday

Bastion on scorpious with tony and KT. Rory with Spiffeh and I on ari. Bearded cat is on tony with two town. What happened to the KT scum read, BC?

The same thing that happened to your KT scumread; we thought he had towned up his slot. You, the person who knew him best, vouched for him as playing his town meta, and we were interested in sorting Metal Sonic. The other two townies also thought that Sonic was scummy; it makes sense now that he wasn't obvtowning because mason.


Also sometimes he thinks there should be one scum on a wagon and sometimes he thinks there should be two scum on a wagon but he never really explains why.

Looking back, that post from BC is like one huge discredit of everything that Scorpious contributed game wise, rather than a helpful one (as I took it to be during my catch up).

Everyone was scumreading him for playstyle reasons and he didn't understand why. I wanted to show him why people were reacting to him the way that they were and give him a shovel to dig himself out of the hole he was in if he was town. We were on his wagon because it was deadline and he hadn't managed it; real life stuff was getting in his way.

We will let bastion and bearded go last.

If you're scumreading both of us, why did you want us to go last in the massclaim?



--P

[BeardedCat]

@dwlee that's really not good enough.

@starbuck:
um, no? The other main options were

Aristo

, and

Tony

, both of whom have since flipped town. We were on

Tony

and were pushing him at the time, but in order to avoid a no lynch, we compromised onto

Scorpious

at the last minute; it was almost midnight and I wasn't sure I'd be awake before the deadline; Rory was being prodded,

Bella

was V/la,

tony

was v/la,

scorpious

wasn't going to hammer himself and dunno about dwlee. I am

also

v/la on weekends, for the record. If I hadn't hammered

scorpious

there would not have been a lynch.

Every lynch in this game has been a deadline lynch. :/ We had ten days to lynch scum and it wasn't going to happen in the last 8 hours of the day, not when the 3 wagons that had more than 1 vote on them were all on town.

Spoiler: last 2 vote counts of day 1

"So far, you've learned about two different figures from History - both of them are from different eras, as well. The first, Rasputin, was very much a 19th and 20th Century man. The other, William of Normandy, was from the 10th Century. Both of them shaped History in their own ways - Rasputin, it can be argued, was a contributing factor to the Russian Revolutions, whereas William of Normandy forever changed the landscape, and the outlook, of England for the rest of time."

Votecount 1.16:

Scorpious

(5)

- Sir Bastion,

KTthecreeper

,

gummmybear, Call of the Wild, Spiffeh

Aristophanes

(2)

- Rory, Dwlee99

TonyMontana

(2)

- BeardedCat,

Bellaphant

Sir Bastion (1)

-

Scorpious

Rory (1)

- Errantparabola

Bellaphant

(1)

-

TonyMontana

Not voting (1)

-

Aristophanes

]

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch. The deadline is at 8am GMT on Monday 2nd November 2015. That is in 16 hours.

Both hydrae need to stop posting on their own accounts. Please.

Bellaphant is v/la until Monday
Rory has been prodded.

"You'll also notice that the History we cover is very Euro-Centric. We try to include some American stuff, but the government only really cares about Britain and some of Europe. I can only apologise."

Votecount 1.17:

Scorpious

(7-LYNCH)

- Sir Bastion,

KTthecreeper

,

gummmybear, Call of the Wild, Spiffeh

, Errantparabola, Beardedcat

Aristophanes

(2)

- Rory, Dwlee99

TonyMontana

(1)

-

Bellaphant

Sir Bastion (1)

-

Scorpious

Bellaphant

(1)

-

TonyMontana

Not voting (1)

-

Aristophanes

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch. The deadline is at 8am GMT on Monday 2nd November 2015. That is in 16 hours.

Both hydrae need to stop posting on their own accounts. Please.

Scorpious has been lynched. Flip incoming.

--P

first hydra slip of the game. sorry nexus <3

--P

[BeardedCat]

Queen Matilda.

--P

[BeardedCat]

What about Rory's ISO makes you think that he is town specifically? Which posts did you like best? My townread on Rory is based on having been his scumbuddy in a previous game, so you probably have a different reason.

--P

[BeardedCat]

no idea; he's been busy with work i think. I've posted in the hydra PT that it's LYLO and when the deadline is and he's read it but he hasn't said anything.

But both of my other LYLO games are over now (I was scum in both of them and they were exhausting and this last one came down to the last 90 minutes). I really can't handle more than one LYLO at a time and I was prioritising them by when the deadline was, but this is now my only LYLO so I'm here. Finally.

--P

[BeardedCat]

@dwlee: No, actually I'm just explaining my own activity because I feel bad about what a non presence I've been this LYLO. This game is a commitment that I take seriously and I feel like I haven't been pulling my weight. I have the same 2 in 5 = 40% chance of being scum as anyone else does at this point. I've had some offline stuff going on and I was also in 3 LYLOs at once which was two too many. What I'm saying is that I can be around more often now than I was before.

BBT is barely active sitewide. Not completely siteflaked but perpetually behind everywhere. And he likes being scum so inactivity isn't alignment indicative for him. His last post in the hydra PT was on the 16th of November. If you think

you're

annoyed about BBT's activity levels...

--P

[BeardedCat]

Now that my scumgame is complete I can say that I think I townread Rory a little prematurely; he didn't play all that well as scum in July/August when we were scum together, and as a result I was townreading his slot in n1653 for similar reasons to my townread on his slot in this game (tone mainly).

And then he replaced out of all of his games and I replaced into his slot in that game and got a scum role PM. It seems his scumplay has improved quite a bit in the intervening couple months. I had to pretend that I didn't know that until yesterday, but cat's out of the bag now. Rory's scumgame isn't as obvious as I had to pretend it was in order to win that other game.

I'll keep that in mind when I get to ISOing Rory/Starbuck; it will probably be easiest to form an opinion primarily based on Starbuck's play instead.

I'm going to ISO people now, in order of who has the least posts first because maybe I'll be able to get through several ISOs that way today.

Spoiler: apparently i have a lot of thoughts about this iso.

Errantparabola

Errant RVS votes Bastion. BBT thinks that newbie scum are more likely to vote their partners but I don't/think that tell really only works in someone's first game if it works at all. Errant has "goon" over their name so they're still new but this isn't their first game.

Errant asks me what I think of

Bella

because she's a former hydra partner of mine, and because

Call of the Wild

thought

Bella's

entrance was awkward. ScumErrant would know that I'm town here and that

Bella

is town and could reasonably expect that a former hydra partner would be more likely to say something like "yeah

Bella

's like that sometimes, it's a bad reason to scum read her". I don't see scum motivation in trying to get me to weigh in on

Bella

like this, because ultimately i'd be the one taking responsibility for reading

Bella

correctly as town and Errant wouldn't get anything out of it.

Errant asks

Ari

about

KT

/dwlee.

Ari

thought it was TvS and Errant wanted to know why

KT

, but indicates that they were also leaning scum on

KT

because of something they said. :/

Errant, I know later you say that you thought it was a TvT, after dwlee had backed down and called

KT

town, but back at this point in the game when the fight was still raging, did you think it was more TvT or SvS and why?

Errant doesn't understand why Rory thinks

Ari

is scum for calling

KT

/dwlee TvS and raises the good point that

Bella

is doing the same thing. It's sketchy to call an action scum when one player does it and ignore it when other people do it. I'll think about that later when I get to Rory/Starbuck. Errant wants to know why it needs to be TvS, which I think is a good question; it could easily be SvS, the whole thing has a scum theatre feeling in hindsight, especially the way it died away so quickly. Something to look at when I stop procrastinating reading dwlee's ISO.

Errant spends a while trying to get Rory to answer their questions for him and finally makes a case against Rory. Errant's case on Rory is that Rory is pushing a bad case on

Aristo

, claiming that Rory was asking

Ari

busywork questions that he had already answered, claiming that

Ari

hadn't been answering his questions when he had been, that he was pushing

Ari

for stuff while ignoring that

Bella

was doing the same thing. These are decent points against Rory.

I also don't see what scumErrant gets out of tying people to town aligned players. Errant is accusing Rory of treating

Ari

and

Bella

differently. If one of these players had been scum, scumErrant could then later push a case on townRory for treating town differently from how he treated scum. But they're both town so nothing to gain here.

Next, Errant looks at

scorpious

,

KT

, and dwlee. Errant feels that

KT

is expressing fake rage, and that his scumreads are based on activity but he's pushing some people on logic that could apply to others while ignoring the others. Says that if

KT

is scum,

sonic

and Rory are a little more towny. Errant think the early stuff was TvT but thinks that if it is TvS then

KT

is more likely to be scum. (this is after dwlee has backed down from his

KT

scumread) I think this post feels town motivated too; I think scum would have reached a different conclusion here, saying that x or y were more likely to be scum if

KT

is scum rather than less likely to be. Unless Errant/Rory are scum together, but I'm not sure why scumErrant would be bussing scumRory when KT/dwlee were taking up all the attention.

Errant feels underinteracted with and tries to engage

Spiffeh

. Wants to know what

Spiffeh

thinks of

Scorpious

and Rory.

Errant trusts dwlee's meta read on

KT

. So did the rest of us. This is in reply to Bastion who had asked if dwlee was defending

KT

too much. (this might be a point against townBastion but it's not a point against townErrant).

BBT prods Errant to take some stances and Errant does. Says

Ari

is an easy mislynch and that there's scum in the pool of people who are supporting voting him while keeping their votes on other people. Errant disliked

Spiffeh

's push on them, and didn't like

Spiffeh

jumping on the

Aristo

wagon while saying he'd rather vote someone else, which

gummmy

also mentioned. Says Dwlee/

KT

are town for now but still feels uneasy about

KT

. Didn't like

Scorpious

attacking Bastion's line of questioning instead of just answering the questions and hopes Rory would come back. I think this is a townpost.

Puts bastion at L-1 in a deadline scramble situation. Probably scum with Bastion.

After the double modkill, Errant goes through

pignash's

iso and tries to make sense of it. Errant thinks that

pignash

pushing bastion right off the bat makes them less likely to be aligned. I'm not sure I agree because that was basically my situation when I first replaced into Rory's slot in that other game and I strongarmed a lynch on my buddy with cute puppy pictures

because

I was replacing into a difficult position and I needed a strong entrance.

Errant notes that

pignash

interacted with only [sir bastion,

spiffeh

, and me]. I guess it would be pretty sloppy of him to ignore both of his scumbuddies so that might not be an all town list but who knows. I'll have more of an opinion on this after rereading bastion, I'm sure.

I like 1571 but it really is missing a conclusion.

Errant, if you've received answers to your questions, please fill in the blank: in conclusion, the point of this wall post is _______

Okay, so reading through this I feel like Errant is a fairly cautious newer player but I like the depth of their approach and a lot of their posts seem more likely to come from newerTown than from scum because they don't seem to be accomplishing scum agenda type stuff; I think scum would have figured that the

KT

slot would not live to LYLO (definitely before dwlee started standing up for

KT

but even after that, the slot was never going to make it into the townbloc) and good day 1 scumplay would be to try to tie the

KT

slot to various townslots, which didn't happen.

I also don't think Errant makes much sense as a scumbuddy for any living player except maybeBastion I guess but I really just think Errant is town.

--P

[BeardedCat]

Sir Bastion

Spoiler: probably will be verbose about this too

Bastion calls out

Call of the Wild

for posting to say that they didn't have an opinion on

KT

/dwlee. This could be a scumpost.

votes

sonic

for noise. There was indeed a lot of noise going on at the time and some of it was from scum.

Bastion dislikes two

scorpious

posts, in which Scorpious was taking interest in the

KT

/dwlee debacle, and votes him over it.

Bastion, what specifically did you dislike about these posts at the time?

nevermind, he answers in 260.

So he disliked the

scorpious

posts because

Scorpious

was strongly advocating two wagons (

kt

and dwlee) without doing anything about them, wasn't voting for either of them. That's fair.

Bastion pushes

scorpious

for a while for not pushing

KT

/dwlee.

Bastion pushes dwlee some about having a screenshot of

KT

's hypixel account to share that

KT

was indeed 11 years old. I can't tell if this is a good point to push on or not but I think it makes Bastion less likely to be scum together with dwlee.

Bastion yells at

KT

for being so noisy.

Bastion is still on

scorpious

for hiding behind a skirt of

KT

and dwlee. This looks like already knew that

KT

would flip scum. Better scumplay would be to bus

KT

first and then go after

scorpious

but actually doing it this way works too because if you push

scorpious

/

kt

as being scum together, and

scorpious

flips first then you're free to re-evaluate the

kt

read if you want to because clearly they're not scum together after all.

Bastion says that Scorpious finally voting is neither scummy nor towny which feels a bit like 'regardless of'. He was pushing him earlier for not voting and now that

scorpious

does vote he says he's going to keep voting him to see whether

scorpious

follows up or is hoping the wagon loses interest. Of course, now that Bastion has said this, he's free to continue voting whether

scorpious

follows up or not, because if

scorpious

follows up, it's only because Bastion told him to, and if

scorpious

doesn't, well he's probably scum then.

It also feels like he's posturing to jump on one of

kt

/dwlee for sheeping him onto that wagon.

He picks at me a bit because I'm carrying the hydra and my other head is barely here but that happened when I hydraed with

Bella

, too.

Bastion postultates a

KT

/dwlee/

scorpious

scumteam. He thinks the entire thing between the three of them is scum theatre. I do also feel like

KT

/dwlee was scum theatre. It's interesting that he pushes scorpious first, but he's pushing dwlee too, some.

He votes starbuck for her catchup posts which is weird but probably just a mafia theory disagreement. I think that even if a series of catchup posts is done by scum putting on a show, it is worthwhile to analyse it later, and it also helps us read the slot because we get to see the game through fresh eyes and stuff. Bastion likes

pignash

's replace in better where he doesn't catchup just makes a case against somebody.

townpoints for unvoting a little later once he realises that she always catches up on replacing in.

He asks

Ari

some flavour questions and then votes him because the flavour doesn't seem to match. I'm of two minds about this; on the one hand, fakeclaims are a thing and mods try to ensure the game can't be broken by flavour. On the other hand, I did recently spectate a game where a player didn't know anything about the flavour, deleted their role pm because they didn't think it was important to hang onto it, and was just going by memory, didn't realise that wizards were the bad guys in the book in question, and claimed wizard instead of whatever their mod provided fake claim was and then were lynched and flipped bad guy.

Bastion continues trying to break the game by flavour.

Bastion brings up dwlee in response to the modkill.

Bastion asks starbuck if her character is female after Tony's mason flip. This bothered me at the time and I said as much because with all of the gender claims already out there, the last mason could only have been in [starbuck, tony, spiffeh] and by getting starbuck to claim female it narrowed the pool down to [tony, spiffeh]. This is suspicious.

What was so important about your gender theory that it was worth potentially outing the mason over it?

Probably scum. I'm getting a migraine but tomorrow I'll look at starbuck/rory and maybe i'll get to dwlee but i may not finish dwlee tomorrow because 253 posts is a lot of posts. i'll be ready to vote before the deadline though.

--P

[BeardedCat]

VOTE: Bastion