Mini 1894: DBZ Abridged Mafia - Arrival To Namek (Game Over)
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Clumsy Phoenix Goon
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Oooh, ooh, me! Hypocrisy, at least, is defo a scumtell!In post 154, ɀefiend wrote:Show of hands, who thinks inconsistency is a
A) scumtell
B) towntell
C) NAI
I wanna make sure where I wanna vote is (in)consistent with everyone's mentality here.
How so? From my experience we just get scumread real hard. Largely when I post, for some reason.In post 203, Alisae wrote:btw anyone seen the Clumsy hydra?
They're like, nowhere in sight.
Tho that's okay because they'll be an easy read when they do post.
Shhhhhhh, it's only been a day, and this time we've agreed not to try and wait on one another before posting things. Granted, I was mostly waiting on Clumsyhead more than anything, because I tend to get scumread when I post without using him as a filter.In post 290, Alisae wrote:And on this episode of mini theme mafia games, the Clumsy hydra lurks again!
Right, so I'm pretty sure Zefiend is town. Not sure on Alisae, gonna defer to Cloobzor on that because he has a better sense for the meta there than I do. That said, Alisae is definitely scum for changing their avatar to a moderately less adorable one. Also, I'm just gonna
VOTE: MariaR-
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Clumsy Phoenix Goon
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This rings hard to me as defensive scum postingIn post 226, MariaR wrote:You have no reason to worry about that wagon so I'm wondering why you're worried or think they're scum on it compared to others you can give reason or give none at all that doesn't make it any more or less likely scum is on it.
I didn't comment on much else because the majority I saw was dragon ball talk, and I figure we've all decided it is in town's best interest to play defensive with them.
-Shaz-
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Remember this if we flip.In post 323, Albert B. Rampage wrote:Anybody who gets off this wagon, now that it has consolidated, will be viewed with extreme suspicion after Clumsy flips.-
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Clumsy Phoenix Goon
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Never played with Socrates before, but that join date has me wanting to look at their experience. Vifam I played with in Darkest Dungeon, will compare that to here as well. Not Chara seems towny to me. Good questions and posts around 250.
P-edit: I feel like he's pushing too hard on the whole not knowing anything about flavor. It's one thing to point that out once, but when he harps on about not knowing anything, it sends up flags to me.-
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In post 40, Tywin Lannister wrote:Btw: I have never watched DBZ beyond like one episode as a kid, and none of it made sense. DBalls are like rings of power and we want to rule them all, right? So like the one ring? Or like infinity stones and the person with the gauntlet kicks the Avengers' asses? I will collect them all like Pokemon. Then I will wish for Almost's death. If he's already dead, I will wish for him to come back alive so I can lynch him again. I got these game mechanics on lockdown.In post 93, Tywin Lannister wrote: Side note: I don't know any of the characters in DBZ, whose good/bad, and things like that (I know Goku is good, right?), so it's good I'm not scum this game. I'd have no idea who to fake claim, but I'm guessing this won't be like Hogwarts Mafia where the good guys are scum, at least from what I can tell by my PM.
Since I can't say the actual name, I can say that I'm 'against' freeza and his generals, whoever the fuck that is.
These get me a lot, and I was actually going to make a post about the second one, but realized a flaw in my logic.-
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Clumsy Phoenix Goon
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Can you uh...In post 335, Clumsy Phoenix wrote:You've hydra'd with Tywin, right? What do you think of him?-
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In post 321, Alisae wrote:Yeaaaaaaaaah...
She's gonna post that way as either alignment.
VOTE: Clums
This seems like a very weak point to jump onto the wagon. Like the straw that broke the camels back instead of the relative boulders that came before. Especially since the Shaz head has no experience with MariaR whatsoever. Why was this the tipping point?-
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@Majiffy: Who are your other scumreads besides Almost50? I wouldn't mind that slot, but who else are you thinking? I have had only one game with Almost50, and I subbed in at the very end. I guess I could look that up too, but not gonna, lie, motivation dwindling.
@All: Thoughts on Imperium? Who all town/scum reads them?
P-edit: Hold the phone-
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Oh, didn't realize this was about Tywin, my mistakeIn post 337, Alisae wrote:He's town imo those posts are not scummy at all.-
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Clumsy Phoenix Goon
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In post 78, Socrates wrote:
Why?In post 18, Not Chara wrote:oh and Kuroi: very interesting mechanic with the Dragonballs. i look forward to sabotaging all attempts to gather seven of them.In post 80, Socrates wrote:Scum like to tell townies not to use unique game mechanics, thinking that they will look protown by advocating caution, but really all they do is betray their own greed.
You didn't actively call it scummy to collect dragon balls, so it's not the full tell, but this is a good starting place.
VOTE: not charaIn post 121, Socrates wrote:
Well no, nc said they were going to actively sabotage collecting dragons balls on the first page.In post 82, Almost50 wrote:
I said it first, so why NC and not me?In post 80, Socrates wrote:Scum like to tell townies not to use unique game mechanics, thinking that they will look protown by advocating caution, but really all they do is betray their own greed.
You didn't actively call it scummy to collect dragon balls, so it's not the full tell, but this is a good starting place.
VOTE: not chara
Two, your suggestion did earn a squint from me. Maybe you failed to notice. But my feelings on you re:Tywin mirror Nacho's, whereas NC only has this.
I find annoying that people think about the mechanics only in terms of how they can be used directly, not in terms of how they can be a vector for scumhunting. Scum can do a lot, but they can do very little without leaving a paper trail if we approach it correctly. I will have more to say on this day 2.
Bolded stands out to me, because I took it as an opening game joke as well, but then NC defended it. That's interesting. Also noticed this:In post 127, Socrates wrote:
You'll note that I didn't immediately jump on her, but asked her to elaborate.In post 124, Alisae wrote:I need to learn how to read. Give me a second.
/me takes a second.
Kay heres the thing. I don't think scum!NC gets anything out of writing that post. Granted town!NC gets nothing out of it either. Like that post seems really NAI to me. Especially considering it's page 1, we're still in RVS, so I don't really see how they're trying to prevent scumhunting from happening on page 1?
I feel like if anything scum are most likely to jump on that post rather then town.If she said it was just a first page joke, I would have shrugged and let it go, but she didn'tand went with the classic "scum can manipulate this mechanic so we shouldn't use it" argument that scum themselves love to make. They love to make the same argument about masslcaims and such, too.
As I said, it wasnt the full tell, because they didn't check the final checkbox of calling it outright scummy, but I feel better about this vote than anywhere else at this moment.
I've caught scum this way before.
Why was this never followed up on? This question was asked and (unless I'm missing a post), never answered nor re-asked.In post 143, Socrates wrote:
Cool. I still want a vote count.In post 142, Albert B. Rampage wrote:
Yes, I'm moderately confident that he is scum.In post 128, Socrates wrote:
Should I be voting him instead of NC?In post 125, Albert B. Rampage wrote:Any simplistic wand-waving ball policy proposal the kind of which Almost50 made is almost assuredly made by scum.
I see where you're coming from, do you see where I'm coming from? or am I barking up the wrong tree?
It's a nice case, I'll have to re-evaluate NC. I'm townreading Socrates more. However it's nearly 1 and I have work in the morning. Anything else for me before I head off for the night?-
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Even the short ones?In post 356, Socrates wrote:My eyes instinctively glaze over at Tywin's posts. I need to correct that.-
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I believe I explained in my first post that I hadn't gotten a hold of Clumsy in a bit and didn't want to lurk this game, we've had a problem with that in past when hydraing because we like to wait to speak with one another before posting. I can link our past games if anyone cares to see them and confirm that I am telling the truth wrt my posting and us lurking due to wanting to converse before posting.
Personally I think ABR hardpushing what he thinks is just kinda an ABR thing, fits him as a person from what I've seen. That said, anyone who has played with him has better meta knowledge than I do, so I figure I'll defer there first. Not sure if Clumsy has or hasn't.
Tywin, Alisae, and Socrates, have any of you given your thoughts on Desperado yet?-
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Clumsy Phoenix
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You either missed my question about Desperado or dodged it, please answer that. As for excusing scummy behavior, my problem is that I really don't see what I did that could be really read as scummy aside from going ahead and saying I might be scumread just for posting without Clumsy, and the fact that we got prodded.-
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I meant Tywin, as he gave a more detailed response to me so I figured he would've seen it where you might not have. Let me know when you've got ideas on Desp, I'm talking to Clumsy about him.In post 373, Alisae wrote:Nah I saw it, I was just on my Ipad because I'm currently sick, and I was in bed when I posted.
tbh I haven't really payed much attention to him.
Gonna ISO him.-
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I asked your read on himIn post 385, Tywin Lannister wrote:What post about desperado? I also haven't paid attention to him. Didn't even know he was in the game.-
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Before this gets answered, what are your current thoughts on us?In post 411, Vifam wrote:What exactly is the case on the Clumsy hydra-
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Right here how ya doing?In post 700, Socrates wrote:Hey Clumsy, where you at?
-Shaziro
P-Edit- because we are both awesome?-
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Clumsy Phoenix Goon
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In post 722, Majiffy wrote:I don't think there's any threat of a quickhammer.
You should put it there now and then if your other head has serious concerns they can move it.
I'm okay with the vote going here I think.
Question for you Alisae: Do you feel like this is SvT only on Tywin's side? As in, if Tywin flips today, and if he flips town, do you still townread Majiffy?In post 630, Alisae wrote:Actually no, this isn't a TvT.
I don't believe that Tywin forgot that the clums hydra is scum.
With Majiffy they were like "Welp, 1 scum caught D1" and that's great an all but did Tywin suddenly forget about the Clums hydra? Because it doesn't read genuine to me?-
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In post 733, Alisae wrote:guyz is anyone TRing Desperado?
Why did you hop over to Desperado? Not saying I agree or disagree with this, just wanting to know the reasoning of jumping off Tywin and onto Desp.
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Hi, shazhead here phoneposting before falling asleep. Today was D&D night, clumsy is a player in that game and I dm it. He'll be doing game day tomorrow evening with another group, but I'll be around because I'm not in that group! I'll be around for like 10 minutes if you have any fast questions for me.
Sample answers:
"Is the wagon on you good?" Not in my mind, duh
"How did you know you would be scumread and clumsy would be townread?" Meta, it literally always happens
"Why were you reluctant to vote on tywin?" Because I was making that call without talking to clumsy, and didn't want to get scumread for it. And apparently, we have been.-
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viewtopic.php?f=23&t=66931In post 904, Socrates wrote:Shaz, have you guys rolled scum as your hydra before?-
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Tywin, you realize I never insisted we were town because we always get scumread, I literally just said that when I post without running it by Clumsy, we get scumread, and then when Clumsy posts we get townread right? It was a statement of fact (which has been proven in games before this but also here) and you've latched onto it and are claiming it is some kind of preemptive excuse, but i don't believe either head has actually tried to use it as one.
If you don't care about being mislynched as town, then you are not helping town as much as you can be. Towns job is to catch scum and not get mislynched in order to make sure scum get lynched instead.
Honestly, I think you realize that Almost is right, we will prove we are town as time goes on, and you don't want to miss out on a quick and easy mislynch.-
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Desperado: I know you addressed that to Shaz, but he's out for food right now. I have a little time before a get together tonight. I have no idea why this hydra gets scum read much easier than playing solo. I wish I knew. But if you like to compare it to past games, like you are with Witch Trials, you should compare it to games where we've hydra'd and this EXACT thing happens. I don't know why it happens, but it does.
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=66850
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=68883
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=70078
In post 121, Socrates wrote:
Well no, nc said they were going to actively sabotage collecting dragons balls on the first page.In post 82, Almost50 wrote:
I said it first, so why NC and not me?In post 80, Socrates wrote:Scum like to tell townies not to use unique game mechanics, thinking that they will look protown by advocating caution, but really all they do is betray their own greed.
You didn't actively call it scummy to collect dragon balls, so it's not the full tell, but this is a good starting place.
VOTE: not chara
Two, your suggestion did earn a squint from me. Maybe you failed to notice. But my feelings on you re:Tywin mirror Nacho's, whereas NC only has this.
I find annoying that people think about the mechanics only in terms of how they can be used directly, not in terms of how they can be a vector for scumhunting. Scum can do a lot, but they can do very little without leaving a paper trail if we approach it correctly. I will have more to say on this day 2.
When I was reading through this, I was having a lot of the same thoughts, especially the "If she said it was just a first page joke, I would have shrugged and let it go". I don't know a whole lot about tells in this game, but Socrates has been playing for much longer than I have, and I town read him, so I'm taking his word on that tell. It makes sense to me, and this actually reminded me of a scum game I played in. RC had a role which let other people give him their votes, and I joked that we should all just give him our votes and let him try to win the game. I was immediately jumped on because it came out insinuating that I knew he was town. Now, I would have made the same joke either way as town or scum, but since I WAS scum, I had to keep up appearances. So I buckled down on it and argued for Town!RC. This felt similar to that, buckling down when under pressure early.In post 127, Socrates wrote:
You'll note that I didn't immediately jump on her, but asked her to elaborate. If she said it was just a first page joke, I would have shrugged and let it go, but she didn't and went with the classic "scum can manipulate this mechanic so we shouldn't use it" argument that scum themselves love to make. They love to make the same argument about masslcaims and such, too.In post 124, Alisae wrote:I need to learn how to read. Give me a second.
/me takes a second.
Kay heres the thing. I don't think scum!NC gets anything out of writing that post. Granted town!NC gets nothing out of it either. Like that post seems really NAI to me. Especially considering it's page 1, we're still in RVS, so I don't really see how they're trying to prevent scumhunting from happening on page 1?
I feel like if anything scum are most likely to jump on that post rather then town.
As I said, it wasnt the full tell, because they didn't check the final checkbox of calling it outright scummy, but I feel better about this vote than anywhere else at this moment.
I've caught scum this way before.
Basically, if Socrates is town (Which I believe he is), he wouldn't lie about the tell. The push felt very town to me, particularly outright saying that it didn't fit the full tell all the way. I didn't have super strong reads at that point, so I was fine with going along with a town read. Does that all make sense?-
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Clumsy Phoenix Goon
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Shazhead is back, the party can begin again folks!
How in the metric fuck do you get "Maria is necessarily your scumbuddy" from "I think you're scum pushing us for the easy mislynch"? I don't think Maria is easier to push, and I don't see why you do. This is a great job of assuming my position and then demanding I defend it despite it not being my position, though, which is an excellent way for Scum to try and trap town into looking like scum so they can excuse their pushing the mislynch later with "oh but they talked all scummy when I questioned them they're just bad".In post 936, Tywin Lannister wrote:Clumsy: you think I realize Almost is right, so I am pushing you for an easy mislynch? So what you're saying is that Maria is my scum buddy, right? You'd have to think that for scum me to push you over Maria, because Maria being pushed by Almost would be far easier to sheep. Therefore, you must SR both me and Maria to take the stance you just did. Am I right here?
Okay, then assuming that, what exactly is Almost right about that you agree with? What exactly about Maria do you SR, and why aren't you voting that slot?
I read through that whole wall and my eyes only glazed over once or twice! You've made a few shit assumptions here, and I'm assuming that's because you're scum trying to push a narrative. The risk of being NKed does not equate to not being worried about being a mislynch. Town has control over the lynches. If we mislynch, we've wasted a lynch, we've wasted a chance to kill scum. The NK will never kill scum. Therefore, all town should be concerned about being a mislynch. The only time town should be okay with being lynched is if they know that them getting lynched will give town the information needed to then proceed to lynch scum, because a 1 to 1 trade of town to scum is necessarily good for town. Us dying won't accomplish that, we'll just flip town and people will scratch their heads and move on. So, considering this, and my -knowing for a fact- that when I post without my Clumsy filter in this hydra, for some reason people always scumread it, yeah I'm pretty damn cautious when I post alone. Even if you throw out, however, the fact that I know if I post alone I will likely get us scumread, I am -still- cautious about what I post because I know that if we do get scumread for what I say and we do get mislynched, it's bad for town.In post 937, Tywin Lannister wrote:The general careful/cautious play is what I SR more than anything Clumsy, and it doesn't matter if you've used meta as an excuse for when you're SR. The excuse part is a side note, so I can drop that and I still see your play as too careful for town. The opener read as if you were more worried about appearances than anything else, and later posts pretty much confirmed that. You even admitted it when questioned. That's what bothers me. Not wanting to be lynched is one thing, but playing the game with the only real goal being to not be lynched doesn't look right. You haven't played (in my opinion) like you've been looking for scum, but rather just being worried about getting SR yourself. It goes against town's win con to play that way, and regardless, if town, you could be NK'd at any time. So knowing that, why worry about being SR over finding scum? It looks to me like you're not worried about finding them, not to mention you seem to not think you'd be NK'd at all. It just doesn't look like a townie mindset. It's too careful and self conscious IMO. It pings me pretty hard, especially when you guys are new. If you were, I'd write it off as inexperience, but I can't do that with you both. Yes, clumsy looks more town and you look more scummy, but I can't seperate the two of you since you're a hydra, so I am going with the overall content put together. It just looks off.
Do I agree that you could be an easy mislynch if town? Yes, I do. It seems too easy. That being said, Maria is being pushed hard over a meta gut read, so there is a counter wagon in play, and you've been given the 'lynchbait' hand wave to take focus away. So it's not white and black here. There are reasons to believe you could be scum that ohviously scum don't want lynched, at least not D1. What gives me pause with that thinking is that Almost is a good scum player, so if you flipped scum and Maria flipped town, he has to know that he'd get all the flak and attention for it.-
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That's a funny way of saying "said your assumptions are shit so questions based on those assumptions are equally shit"In post 953, Tywin Lannister wrote:So Clumsy's response to my questions have been: 'You're stupid and make shitty assumptions cuz scum and my eyes glaze over when I see your posts nah nah nah scum scum'
I guess shaz wants to get lynched. Can't even answer my questions, and didn't bother giving thoughts on Maria. Go figure.-
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Okay but we literally aren't using that approach. See, you keep insisting that we aren't finding scum. We -have- found scum, it's -you-. We've given our reasons for scumreading you, you just don't like them. Doesn't mean that they aren't there. I've said "the meta is not an excuse for looking scummy", but you keep insisting we're using it as an excuse for looking scumy. You are trying -real- hard to convince people that we're a good wagon.In post 958, Tywin Lannister wrote:If you ARE town then my suggestion is to stop worrying about what others think and worry about finding scum. This 'I'm always SR, poor me' approach sucks, and Socrates says you've used it as scum before. Since there's a precedent, idk why you think I (or anyone else) should just take your word for it here. It's contradictory to your own meta. So how can you use meta as an excuse for looking scummy when you've literally used that excuse as scum before? It invalidates the entire meta argument from the start, and so your posts (shaz side) look way worse in that light.-
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In post 954, Tywin Lannister wrote:You're still more worried about being SR than finding scum, and the only real SR you have apparently is me, because I'm questioning you. Or am I wrong?
We've given reasons for scum reading you, and it's not because you're questioning us. This is a great way of setting up being able to wash your hands of this lynch after it flips town.
P-edit: Shaz, I linked him our only scum game together, that's what he's referring to.-
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Eeexcept we have commented on Maria. I said I thought a thing they did was scummy, Clumsy pointed out that actually they do that as town. Aside from that, we've been busy dealing with the fact that we're pretty sure you're scum, and talking to Soc who is our biggest townread. You accused us of scumreading you because you're "questioning us". Socrates has also been questioning us, and is voting on us, yet we're pretty sure he's town. Add to that the fact that we've pointed out why we think you're scum and it isn't "because you're questioning us", your accusation is pretty shit, just like your assumptions. You're grubbing at things because you want to mislynch us real bad.In post 960, Tywin Lannister wrote:Like Maria voting majiff looks like a way to move attention to any wagon other than them/Clumsy. Clumsy refuses to comment on Maria, and Maria refuses to comment on clumsy. What if they were both scum? Lol-
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Ok but Tywin is scum though, Alisae.
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Clumsy Phoenix Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 778
- Joined: May 2, 2016
What has you feeling ABR scum?In post 971, MariaR wrote:Okay maybe ABR flipped scum lol no it is so RARE you ever wagon 2 scum in a row let alone 1 on day 1 the fact everyone is okay with both these wagons should be red flag city showing scum are okay with this like this is mafia 101-
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Clumsy Phoenix Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 778
- Joined: May 2, 2016
Tywin, you keep pushing angles on this that are not true. We have posted our reasons for scumreading you, and you saying that our only real SR is you because you're questioning us is frankly crap. You're angling for this slot to be the D1 mislynch, while also setting up the opportunity to say "Well he was really scummy!" and move on from it.
You side step anything we do say
And instead keep pushing this angle of us not helping ourselves. You keep bringing up what we've said about being scumread, and then point to it when we comment on it. If you keep pushing that, of course it's going to look like we're leaning on that. Also that last line is scumtastic. Your responses to us talking about anything is casting it aside and then repeating what you've been saying.In post 953, Tywin Lannister wrote:So Clumsy's response to my questions have been: 'You're stupid and make shitty assumptions cuz scum and my eyes glaze over when I see your posts nah nah nah scum scum'
I guess shaz wants to get lynched. Can't even answer my questions, and didn't bother giving thoughts on Maria. Go figure.
When you actually want to have a dialog instead of just repeating yourself and deflecting anything we say that you can't point at as scummy, let me know. For now, I gotta run and manage my tabletop game.
-Clumsy
P-edit: To those that are actually town, don't let those pushing this wagon through slide off with "they looked really scummy!" if we get lynched today.
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