Mini 1894: DBZ Abridged Mafia - Arrival To Namek (Game Over)

[Desperado]

weeeeeeeeeeeeee

vote: imperium

[Desperado]

Hi tammy!

[Desperado]

i'd love to vote almost but this post

@Tywin: I'm trying to give you all the slack you need to rectify your play in hopes you're not yet tuned in, but then I'll have to come down on you real hard if that doesn't change soon.

Hint: reread the thread. Now tell me what you missed.

Why are you making me read RVS? I usually don't start paying attention until after.

The thing is you addressed both mine and Alisae's vote on you. but totally ignored Vifam's. Since we just finished a game where you were scum, and I partially caught you by noticing you neither voted nor got voted by your scum partners, I was wondering if Vifam (who was also in that game) tried to change that and you missed his gesture. It's a 50-50, but you'd have to admit it's strange you didn't even say hello to the guy who put the 3rd vote on you.

isn't made by scum

unvote
vote: ABR

[Desperado]

the scumhunting looks too genuine to come from scum

[Desperado]

It's a pretty garbage argument, especially considering it implies that the person he voted in RVS is now a scumread with Vifam and he later unvoted.

i'm not concerned with the validity of the argument

@ alisae literally just answered that question

[Desperado]

Re: post in question: Not necessarily. It would be easy rhetorical food for him to force a scumread on Tywin, but he chose to back off and look elsewhere. That's what makes it seem genuine.

Incidentally,

vote count

?

I don't agree that it easy at all. there was a level of sophistication to the read that is difficult to fake for anyone and it's not like almost could have planned to scumread tywin for that exact thing pregame; if they had I would have expected something less fully formed.

[Desperado]

are you suggesting that any discussion of the dragonballs is strictly nai maria?

cuz I dont agree

[Desperado]

are you suggesting that any discussion of the dragonballs is strictly nai maria?

cuz I dont agree

What makes it not NAI to you? o-o

???

not sure yet

but suggesting that it isnt!/never will be is pretty weird

[Desperado]

if scum have more information about the balls than town does then....no

[Desperado]

did one of your buddies already slip and you're trying to gloss over it or what?

[Desperado]

if scum have more information about the balls than town does then....no

And why would scum have this???????????????

??

why wouldn't they? we already know they have more freedom to pass them so it's not a stretch to assume they know more about them.

[Desperado]

or it's...How mafia works???

[Desperado]

even if it's as simple as one of their PRs having additional info when a town PR has the same info (not op)

[Desperado]

lol

[Desperado]

you're just... Wrong

[Desperado]

c-c-c-c-c-c-c-c-c-COMBO BREAKER

[Desperado]

wut

[Desperado]

alignment indicative works in both directions bud

[Desperado]

you aren't getting me bro

discussing the mechanic may or may not provide alignment tells

maria suggested that all mech talk is NAI and i do not agree

[Desperado]

....

maria

[Desperado]

@ ali there's not a whole lot of substance behind it. i didn't like the almost wagon and abr's vote least of all. his CP vote isn't really scumhunting like he said he wanted to do, it's a pressure vote that quickly turns in to narrative building which is scum 101

almost, not chara, majiffy, tywin, and imperium all feel town in roughly that order

[Desperado]

@ cp why are you soliciting other peoples opinions about me first? you both have first hand, recent, experience with my game.

@ ali i'd vote him but that would require me to start a new wagon and i'm already soloing the abr wagon so i don't really feel like doing that

[Desperado]

few reasons

i don't like his nc case nearly as much as you do

his opinion on almost was ass backwards

210 and 213 and 356 are all things i would expect scum to say aloud but town to just note to themselves

[Desperado]

Lol this is scum too. We have two already will the third show up?

[Desperado]

What post about desperado? I also haven't paid attention to him. Didn't even know he was in the game.

u wot m8

[Desperado]

@Desperado: so you SR ABR for his push on clumsy, but there are three of us on the wagon, and you've put me in the townie category. What gives? I'm pushing the same wagon, although I think I've made my reasons for it pretty clear.

actually i said i didnt like the almost wagon

i specifically said i didnt like abr's CP vote and progression

[Desperado]

This looks town!

i couldn't disagree more

[Desperado]

like if i could only have one reason to vote abr it would be how quickly he went from pressure vote to narrative building, which is the only purpose that post served

[Desperado]

yup you already said that once

[Desperado]

His scumread on me is still nonsense, though.

wrong answer

[Desperado]

unvote
vote: socrates

[Desperado]

there's no huff and puff

what reaction did you expect a handwave and discredit to engender?

[Desperado]

I also dislike motives and things being discussed, because all motives boil down to two things: town lynching scum and scum not getting lynched/mislynching town. It's pretty damn simple.

hahahah what

[Desperado]

Now, if people disagree with clumsy, feel free to discuss with me why. Shading ABP won't do it, because he's one of my strongest TRs. Unless someone can't point out his playstyle as specifically fitting a past scum game, I'm taking it as a definitive TR on D1. Alisae I know the best out of everyone, and I don't see him as scum here. Later posts pretty much solidified my change from slight SR to strong TR, so he's not getting lynched.

maybe i'm misremembering but you think abr is town because he's pushing wagons?

or is there more to it

[Desperado]

If anyone has a case on anyone else, give it. Make it count. I haven't seen a legit NC case yet, but I have seen a lot of useless/naked/sheep votes on the slot. I'll lynch one of those if they don't give a reason. This player list means that everyone knows better than to screw around sheeping and naked voting, so don't do it.

ali is your top townread and she is sheeping socrates' NC case that you don't see as legit

[Desperado]

I'd also like to hear you rephrase our suspicions on Not Chara, as well as Socrates; you note that our cases aren't legitimate, but there's no impetus for me to refine an approach until you show me it's broken.

exactly how i feel about socrates' response to my scumread on him

[Desperado]

hey shaz

still waiting for your slot's opinions on me

or for you to follow up on the people you asked

[Desperado]

unvote
Vote: maria

Edit: Fixed!

[Desperado]

Doesn't have as much oomph when it isn't embedded, pity

[Desperado]

this is the part where you explain why maria

uhhh we've played like twice?

and even if I did know that your town meta is to not care...I don't care

[Desperado]

and I just don't even think that's true

you seemed to care quite a bit in laundry and I didn't notice anything either way in fakegods game

but appealing to authority here like we've been playing for years is bizarre

[Desperado]

You didn't seem like the person to ignore logic my mistake.

thats not how meta works

[Desperado]

im assuming you don't have any actual reasons for thinking I'm scum beyond erroneously thinking i a) know you well enough to successfully meta read you or b) would ever using something as dumb as "maria cares less as town!" to meta read you in the first place

[Desperado]

People are most likely to hate on what they don't understand don't worry it's okay to fall into that category
Pedit: Who said anything about it being meta

Pretty sure I townread you I'm fakegods game btw

[Desperado]

Now now move along you were wrong last game we played and you're prob scum or wrong I have more important people to talk too

lmao you can't even go four posts without hedging on me

[Desperado]

I'm pretty sure you had me as nullish but correct me if I'm wrong. Why don't you say why you sr me cause in my eyes that was a very random out of no where vote
Pedit: What's hedging? O_o

did you think i was joking when we had our conversation re: dragonballs or what?

hedging is you saying i'm either scum or wrong (town)

[Desperado]

Desperado is still pinging me but I saw this type of play in TBD Mafia and it took a while for me to nail him as Town, so we shall see.

you were a lot more open with your suspicion in tbd

why are "pings" all we're getting here?

[Desperado]

@ tywin might have missed it but have you addressed alisae being your best townread but also prepping to scumread people sheeping socrates' nonexistent NC case

[Desperado]

i was hoping for something a lot more substantial than that

especially considering clumsy also just played with me as town

[Desperado]

do you have anything to say about your vote sheeping Socrates?

beyond being uneasy with maria's dragonball stance early on and not liking her reaction to my vote?

not really

[Desperado]

It does not refer to a player simply scumreading someone who scumreads them, it refers to instances of players using the FACT that someone is scumreading them and making a (to their perspective) bad argument for that read as further justification TO scumread someone.

see: maria

[Desperado]

-Desperado, the full-fledged suspicion of you isn't present in this game because everything's totally different. You aren't the early center of suspicion like you were in TBD mafia, you've only been micro-pinging me instead of flatout making logical missteps, and there are currently much bigger fish to fry. If you want a few things to talk about with me, here they are:
1) your back n forth with Maria (and a couple others) about the ball-talk being strictly NAI peeved me because all you had to do was provide ONE counterexample from this game to prove your point, but all you said was literally "not sure yet."
2) you used ABR's vote on Clumsy and the subsequent "narrative-building" as a retro-active reason for voting ABR
3) you were willing to vote Socrates but not as a vanity wagon -- at least one other person was mildly scumreading Socrates; the game is also relatively early to not classify loner votes as "vanity wagons" if they have a good case behind them

1) probably because that wasn't the point of the discussion. maria came in and the first thing she did was complain about how the only thing anyone had been talking about was the balls and that all mechanical talk is by definition NAI. i disagreed with that sentiment and i don't have to provide an example because it's self evident.
2) sure did. i voted him for what he did w/r/t almost and then he did more scummy stuff inbetween me voting and someone asking me why i'm voting him
3) what i actually said was that i would vote socrates if i werent already soloing the abr vote. it didn't make much sense to hop from one solo wagon to another, plus i didn't have as big a scumread on him.

[Desperado]

not sure yet tbh

[Desperado]

i've read it all twice and it's just...there

[Desperado]

that's a pretty big overstatement of what's happened

[Desperado]

and ~selfmeta~ but that's not my mo as scum anyway

[Desperado]

i mean it's Trump's America so feelings are facts but that's just...wrong

[Desperado]

that sure is a vote count

[Desperado]

i'm on maria btw

[Desperado]

This head thinks Tywin is looking worse and worse as this goes on. It might be pot calling kettle black and all, but desp does seem to be sidelining and doesn't look good to me as a result. Clumshead isn't at work but idk where he's at.

-Shaziro

in what way am i sidelining

[Desperado]

like, accusing me of sidelining and then fueling tywin vs majiffy without a vote attached is pretty batshit bro

[Desperado]

of the lynch target or the wagon composition

[Desperado]

Concern wasn't with a quick hammer, but fair enough.

VOTE: Tywin

what was the concern then?

your timidity in this hydra is very offputting to me; i had a much different understanding of your personality after witch trials

[Desperado]

clum head I don't sr
other head I DO

use quotes and explain this

[Desperado]

if you're going to say something like you have differing reads on individual heads i want you to use quotes from each head and explain why

[Desperado]

like you literally just rewrote what you'd already said

[Desperado]

It's hard to tellb who's posting what

exactly

best i can tell the two posts you mention but dont quote are clumsy's only posts thus far

what do you make of the fact that you're scumreading the hydra leader but townreading the secondary head for two posts you thought were genuine?

[Desperado]

Desperado seemed moreso interested in hanging in the sidelines tbh.
Like you know how site meta is to let the town rip it's heads apart with countless TvTs.
Yeah, I think he's doing that.

didnt i ask you to show your work on this one?

[Desperado]

i'd also like you to explain how me thinking tywin and majiffy were both town before their 1v1 and that content not really changing my reads there is "sitting on the sidelines letting town rip itself apart" while you scumreading tywin and defending majiffy for specious reasons is a-ok

[Desperado]

I have so many dif playstyles that you trying to sum it up isn't really going to work like the only thing I think people can meta me on is if my ate is real or fake but "how I play" I don't think that's someone really anyone besides maybe 2 people can judge but if that's gonna be your base I can't really stop you.
Pedit: I was mostly questioning your vote because I didn't know why you'd lynch someone with such little reasoning that I've seen (mind you I've glazed over this thread more times then I wanna count but I'm not getting into this cause of more free time) I sr that slot as well I just wanted to hear yours and was a bit taken back by the lack of

lmao what

[Desperado]

oh boy...votes

Desp is scum.

Yeah maybe I did jump on an easy wagon but I wanted to see where it went this hasn't really caught my interest normally I get a spark but it isn't there I will vote scum though.
VOTE: Desp

(Input self meta on how I love being scum and hate being town wifom here)

Desp's played with me to know me not caring much is more towny then it scummy and the fact he's voting me is awful Socrates you're fine you do what you do.

People are most likely to hate on what they don't understand don't worry it's okay to fall into that category
Pedit: Who said anything about it being meta

Now now move along you were wrong last game we played and you're prob scum or wrong I have more important people to talk too

I have so many dif playstyles that you trying to sum it up isn't really going to work like the only thing I think people can meta me on is if my ate is real or fake but "how I play" I don't think that's someone really anyone besides maybe 2 people can judge but if that's gonna be your base I can't really stop you.
Pedit: I was mostly questioning your vote because I didn't know why you'd lynch someone with such little reasoning that I've seen (mind you I've glazed over this thread more times then I wanna count but I'm not getting into this cause of more free time) I sr that slot as well I just wanted to hear yours and was a bit taken back by the lack of

[Desperado]

in case you aren't groking that Maria says I'm scum because I've played with her enough to know what her tendencies are as town and scum but almost is wrong because her meta is too varied to be able to identify tendencies

[Desperado]

I don't. sr you. on meta. I said that was icing are we going to have a repeat of last time Desp?

you haven't given any reason besides my vote on you for why I'm scum so...yes you are

[Desperado]

VOTE: Clumsy
Tywin vs. Majiffy made me like Majiffy more Tywin less, but i really can't make up my mind. trying to go through the back and forth is exhausting. i'll be doing that now but, Clumsy is a better wagon. besides disliking 758, neither of those two have addressed their vote on me or where it came from.

i'm townreading Desperado. why's he scum?

and Almost, i really can't agree with you there. i don't think it's actually possible to 'slip a vote in when nobody's looking'. players are always looking. votecounts are posted regularly.

I forgot why I had a sr on desp but-Oh it was his weird vote on me but the isn't as strong as before my reads are lackluster so to say

literally three hours ago

[Desperado]

[Desperado]

shaz what is it about being a hydra that makes you look so scummy?

this attitude was nonexistent in witch trials

[Desperado]

Desperado also looks too 'in the background' for my taste, because I don't remember them doing anything, and Socrates changed my opinion so I no longer have a gut SR there. Vifam looks like his usual 'idgaf' town self.

Obviously scum aren't perfectly aligned with these camps, but that's the player base as I see it. My worry is that the scum could be in the 'sit on sidelines' camp of players who haven't gotten any shit from anyone. Maria used to be part of that camp until Almost changed that, but this is my point. Nobody has really pushed the sideline camp players, and none of them have stuck their necks out to push the other camps. If Clumsy/Maria aren't scum, then we're barking up the wrong tree/camp.

maria is just as much my wagon as it is almost's so if someone, ANYONE, who keeps harping on me "sidelining" this game could fucking explain that it'd be great

otherwise...stop saying it

[Desperado]

like there isn't a single thing any of you, ali, or clumsyhydra can point to that i haven't addressed

we literally had a several post back and forth and then a day later you couldn't remember who i am or anything i'd said

that isn't my problem

[Desperado]

i also think a Maria scumflip looks good for clumsy

[Desperado]

i could lynch any of Clumsy, Maria, zefiend, and Alisae.
who is townreading these players and why?

zefs response to me calling out his "pings" seemed town even if I had to prod him to get those thoughts

[Desperado]

what about it was town? like, why did it appear genuine instead of something fakeable?

i've seen zef scum and town recently and it felt town

there isn't any more depth to it than that

[Desperado]

or she's just bullshitting

[Desperado]

UNVOTE:

Not entirely comfortable with a Maria lynch right now, especially from what I've skimmed of her reaction to nacho's vote and lately. I need to talk to nacho, and I doubt very seriously he's read through what's transpired since last night. I'm sorry I've been gone all week, but I've had a hell of a week and am 20 pages behind. I'm getting ready to walk out the door, so I won't be around tonight, but I will tomorrow morning when I get home.

Hopefully I'll be all caught up and nacho will too.

[Desperado]

Desperado was the first to vote Maria, but afaik, it was an RVS vote that is STILL there. He hasn't given new reasons to SR or vote the slot, and not moving from RVS looks scummy. Correct me if I'm wrong about this desperado, since it's been so long since you've been voting the slot that I don't remember why. Who else do you SR and why? Any other reads to add?

just about everything you said in this post is wrong

[Desperado]

it wasn't RVS and i've given several reasons for voting maria

[Desperado]

tbh my concerns with Desperado is that I feel that he hasn't really done much. Just sorta coasting if anything (Well tbf I'm doing this right now but ehhhhhhhhh)

i really wish just one of the people that keeps repeating this same line would fucking justify it

[Desperado]

Hey Desperado.
Who do you TR?
Who do you SR?
Why do you SR them?
Can you talk to me about Maria because you've mostly been involved with talking to them for a while now so I feel like you know the most about why she's scum.

majiffy, tywin, socrates, not chara, almost

maria is the only scumread i feel confident in right now

tammy's maria unvote dropped imp from my town list

vifam is the only person i would truly describe as coasting in this game and is the main reason i don't understand why i keep getting lumped in to that category. still waiting for you or tywin or clumsy to point to something that i haven't addressed/participated

zef is a weak townread

i wouldn't be surprised either way by a clumsyhydra flip but i'd really like to see maria flip scum because it would put them in my town list

same thing applies to abr but for different reasons

and i don't feel great about you either but it's more akin to a null read.

[Desperado]

not chara
almost
socrates

majiffy
tywin

imperium
zef

----------- <---- line of lynchability

abr
clumsyhydra
alisae

vifam

maria

[Desperado]

Oh, and I agree about desperado. He is coasting.

fucking prove it or stop saying it

[Desperado]

I'm starting to wonder if Clum hydra is town I don't like how the 2 wagon choices have suddenly merged to me/clum hydra I feel like that means scum are content with the wagon choices because no other wagons are starting and no one of 2 wagons are getting majorly pushed it makes me think scum like the game state as is and we should be looking elsewhere I'm starting to get a few more townreads I'm gonna look at my list and cast a vote tell me your thoughts on this

this would be an amazing scumpost if maria and clumsy are both scum

[Desperado]

Why ABR? Vote hopping? Or what? The rest I don't really disagree with. Nothing unusual anyways.

nah the vote hopping is nai for him

same with his aggression early on

it's the narrative building and the lack of follow through on those narratives that i don't like. he's projected a lot of misplaced confidence and that's an abr tell as well but it feels scummy

[Desperado]

tammy's maria unvote dropped imp from my town list

Can you explain where you think that is unvoting when we've been constantly saying that we weren't ready for a lynch yet is unreasonable?

maria wasn't in danger of being lynched and with you putting the vote right back there I'm just kinda sitting here scratching my head

[Desperado]

maria in the same post you just said you've self voted many times as town and it's even gotten you the win

and then you admonish almost for asking for just one example

???

[Desperado]

I don't think for one second that the person who pointed out to Arthur in Laundry mafia that I practically make waffling an art form would be scratching his head over me unvoting when I'm behind and haven't had a chance to process the reaction to our slot's vote. I don't think that you go oh herr derr their no longer a town read after the amount of thought we have put into the game because I, of all people, don't want a lynch to go through over night and need to catch up.

I'd like for you to explain that like I'm five because from where I'm sitting it's disingenuous bullshit.

Maria said she was self-voting last night, if she did that she would be at L-1, no way I want a wagon sitting at L-1 over night before I have a chance of catching up and talking to nacho. Nacho and I talked this morning when he got off work, Maria didn't self vote like she said she was going to, hence no danger of the lynch scenario before I could start catching up and being around, and we're fine with Maria flipping.

it was more that you unvoted without talking to nacho or having read.

you said you skimmed and you weren't comfortable with the vote anymore because of maria's reaction, but now after discussing with nacho maria's reaction is the reason you're voting there again?

there was no indication it was strictly because you weren't ready for a lynch

[Desperado]

UNVOTE:

Not entirely comfortable with a Maria lynch right now, especially from what I've skimmed of her reaction to nacho's vote and lately. I need to talk to nacho, and I doubt very seriously he's read through what's transpired since last night. I'm sorry I've been gone all week, but I've had a hell of a week and am 20 pages behind. I'm getting ready to walk out the door, so I won't be around tonight, but I will tomorrow morning when I get home.

Hopefully I'll be all caught up and nacho will too.

I don't like the asking for a vote count and threatening to self-vote; oftentimes the reason self votes happen are because someone is in a bit of a compromised emotional state and they do something silly but instead you made sure to ask for a vote count first, then didn't follow through...? All in all, it's a strange sequence of events that I don't buy as genuine.

are these not referring to the same things???

[Desperado]

so the reason i'm confused is that maria threatened to self vote and then didn't do it before you unvoted

Spoiler: all this happened before you unvoted

Give me a vote count and I'm self voting I have nothing else to say I'm town my flavor is ASAI I'm one of freeze's men who warn him a unit is going I'm clearly forever going to be lynchbait as town and I'd rather die now while we have mling I do think clum is town

Are you challenging me to spam Gin you little fuck I will do it

I was blessed with mod powers, WHATS UP.

but plz no spam
~Gin~

Do not challenge me in the art of trolling

Btw if it isn't obv enough I'm a VT

Me saying things like oh another game where I get lynched d1 as town is just fact because it happens a shit ton I've never been lynched d1 as scum and it isn't gonna happen this game either cause I flipped town N don't know how to stop it I'm easy to lynch as town and not as scum *shrug* I don't mind lynching myself so town can wake up and see that scum are driving the wagons that were both on town I think Clum slot is town and shouldn't be lynched tomorrow it's very clear
Pedit: Already claimed

TYWIN I RECHECKED MY ROLE PM MANY TIMES I KNOW LMFAO
Yes I'm one of freeza's men who tries to warn him

But Socrates is town though and your vote on him sucks

Coming from someone I think is scum with him you must understand I hold your opinion at little value

Wonder why he's doing that hm....Because scum want proof with anything they're doing DUH CAN WE LYNCH THE OBV SCUM? No no I'm getting lynched? k

I'm so glad were playing "compare game A to game B" cause that's gonna get us the right result boy gee what a good game of mafia were having

I'm so glad were playing "compare game A to game B" cause that's gonna get us the right result boy gee what a good game of mafia were having

I don't want to be smug, but isn't this better than "Hi, Maria", "Hi, Fire", "What's up?", "Nothing.", "I'm not feeling good", "Need a hug?" kind of posting?

I mean not really both are very useless 1 just leads to wrong results more.

[Desperado]

[quote=Maria's 3rd post after replacing in to that game]Because scum would sub out at a time like that?

This is going to be fun I've never been lynched as town before and I don't plan to start now the fact that I see people sring this slot makes it even more of a fun challenge
[/quote]

??????????????????????????????????

[Desperado]

you also read the last scum as town while self-hammering and your only post game comments were "welp! i sucked"

idfgi

[Desperado]

i implore everyone to read maria's iso from the game she just provided and not just gloss over it

[Desperado]

my point being your argument in this game was that you've self hammered as town before and it's actually been a good thing because it resulted in town wins

but the game you provided your self-hammer had nothing to do with it and you acknowledged that it wasn't a good play

[Desperado]

I could tell you what I had for breakfast but damn man what kind of grand plan are you trying to suggest was at play here?

you're making a lot more out of this than is necessary

i didn't like the unvote and you dropped from town town to lean town

if that's a problem for you...??

it had nothing to do with your waffling nature and everything to do with the unvote not making sense in context. if you'd just said "we're not ready for a lynch right this second" and left it at that it wouldn't have mattered, but you didn't say that.

[Desperado]

lol

ok

[Desperado]

because you hadn't actually read anything, there was no immediate danger of a lynch, maria had already not done what she had threatened to do and your unvote easily could have caused the wagon to stall out (see: abr's unvote)

and if you'd like to explain why me being wary of your unvote and downgrading the strength of my townread on you is scum motivated now would be a great time

[Desperado]

i had you as strong town, you were aligning with my preferred lynch...as scum there is no reason for me to antagonize the two of you whatsoever

but hey, its ~unnatural~

[Desperado]

as if me seeing you unvote my lynch for specious reasons just as the wagon was beginning to coalesce couldn't possibly look like a scumbuddy getting cold feet

nope, not possible. your towniness is unimpeachable.

[Desperado]

Are you literally getting after me for not having esp that maria was not going to self-vote, when I knew the five minutes that I had to skim the game when I skimmed and unvoted was the only damn time I'd have until this morning right now when I'm here to join in on this lovely dumb ass conversation I think you're too smart to be having with me? That somehow some way I knew that she wouldn't do what she said she'd do? I would rather be safe, get the fuck caught up, make sure my vote is where I actually want it to be, then leave it there over night and risk a lynch when I wake up.

i've shown that she had already not done it. she threatened to self vote and then 10 posts later there was no self vote. the time for an emotional town response of frustration had passed and THEN you unvoted and

cited maria's reaction to nacho's vote as a reason why

.

I don't think it's natural for you to quote her iso from the point and continue on this dumb ass line of questioning. I don't think it's natural for you, of all people, to do a down grade over something small. In Laundry mafia you were so certain that nacho!scum was town that even though I was telling you that the way nacho interacted with me never happens when he's town, that he was behaving just like he did in the previous game where he was scum, even though I read nacho way better and more consistently than pretty much everyone else, you told me that my read blew chunks. So, you'll have to forgive me that when nacho is posting in his very regular town matter, looking at the game in the way he does as town and you should very well know that, that you decide derp tammy wants to catch up and is doubting someone's reaction gee wilikers that might mean something.

i really don't understand what any of this has to do with what's going on. you two occupy the same slot in this game so your ability to read nacho in another game is irrelevant. and shouldn't my nacho misread in laundry indicate to you that maybe i don't "very well know" what ways nacho looks at the game as town? i've never claimed to be a master nacho reader. so with that in mind why are you only questioning my ability to read your hydra when i downgrade you from town town to lean town and not when i read you as town town to begin with?

[Desperado]

Oh the lame ass cold feet accusation. Well by all means carry on with that dumb assness.

By the way anybody with any experience and talent as scum doesn't get cold feet. I suck as scum but if I'm going to bus a buddy, I don't get cold feet.

(My postulation was that you were going to say just this. And my postulation to nacho this morning was that you were her scum buddy who were trying to tie us to Maria. Fancy that.)

experienced and talented scum could have seen an easy way out of their bus and tried to take it

i'm sure i've seen nacho do that before

and if you really, honestly believe that maria and i could ever be scum together in this game...

[Desperado]

Are you literally getting after me for not having esp that maria was not going to self-vote

and just for the record, no, i am not literally going after you

i literally dropped you from the top half of my town list to the bottom half

[Desperado]

i think ive demonstrated a pretty clear understanding, i just don't think it tracks with what actually happened.

[Desperado]

we're just going in circles now.

[Desperado]

in my interpretation of events, the threat of maria selfvoting had already dissipated when you unvoted

that is the crux of the issue

pedit: i wish. i take a piss test monday morning that essentially decides the future of my career and last i checked i still wasnt pissing clean so i'm anxious as fuck about it

[Desperado]

Desperado cool off and talk to me. Especially since you never answered my question about ABR.

its still developing especially with him unvoting her and moving to me after imperium unvoted

[Desperado]

in case you aren't groking that Maria says I'm scum because I've played with her enough to know what her tendencies are as town and scum but almost is wrong because her meta is too varied to be able to identify tendencies

This doesn't make her scum.

its pretty solid evidence to me

[Desperado]

discrediting multiple reads with disparate reasoning is pretty scummy

[Desperado]

especially when she used my inability to differentiate between her town and scum games as the only reason for me being scum

[Desperado]

I disagree with your logic on almost but let's put it into logic for a second:

Someone who has played what is it 4 or 3 games with me I expect to know more about me vs someone who died and didn't get to interact and play with me who do you think I'm gonna be more strict on

no that isn't what happened

you said I'm scum because I should know you don't care when you're town. disregarding the fact that this sort of meta is irrelevant to me, you then told almost that his meta based read in you was bunk because you have too many different playstyles to build a proper meta read.

these are diametrically opposed thought processes and I don't believe you made both of these arguments as town.

[Desperado]

I have so many dif playstyles that you trying to sum it up isn't really going to work like the only thing I think people can meta me on is if my ate is real or fake but "how I play" I don't think that's someone really anyone besides maybe 2 people can judge but if that's gonna be your base I can't really stop you.
Pedit: I was mostly questioning your vote because I didn't know why you'd lynch someone with such little reasoning that I've seen (mind you I've glazed over this thread more times then I wanna count but I'm not getting into this cause of more free time) I sr that slot as well I just wanted to hear yours and was a bit taken back by the lack of

this is not you saying almost doesn't have enough experience with you

[Desperado]

VOTE: Clumsy
Tywin vs. Majiffy made me like Majiffy more Tywin less, but i really can't make up my mind. trying to go through the back and forth is exhausting. i'll be doing that now but, Clumsy is a better wagon. besides disliking 758, neither of those two have addressed their vote on me or where it came from.

i'm townreading Desperado. why's he scum?

and Almost, i really can't agree with you there. i don't think it's actually possible to 'slip a vote in when nobody's looking'. players are always looking. votecounts are posted regularly.

I forgot why I had a sr on desp but-Oh it was his weird vote on me but the isn't as strong as before my reads are lackluster so to say

literally three hours ago

Yes I never said anything about meta in this post lol

Just because I don't state something in the thread doesn't mean it's my only reason.

unvote
Vote: maria

This is the vote I disliked because it came right after another guy with no reasoning what so ever (as already stated I hate barely any reasoning)

The reason why I didn't share when you asked is because the reasons aren't as solid as I'd like them to be as in not good enough so I didn't share them because this convo would happen
Person A) And why do you feel that way? Me: I just do Person A) You do because? Me: I just do

[Desperado]

as far as I can tell you still havent said what those reasons you didn't feel like staying in thread

[Desperado]

you said I was scum because I voted you and I should know that you don't care when you're town. that is still the only reason you have ever stated in this thread for scumreading me.

[Desperado]

even tho I could go pull a quote from laundry where you suggested you didn't care and I told you that from my perspective you cared very much

[Desperado]

Desp's played with me to know me not caring much is more towny then it scummy and the fact he's voting me is awful Socrates you're fine you do what you do.

[Desperado]

but you still haven't elaborated at all about it!

[Desperado]

hahaha you can't be serious bro

[Desperado]

both still town

[Desperado]

read the game

[Desperado]

there's really no reason to replace out socrates

[Desperado]

socrates that wasnt really how i interpreted it at all

which posts was he openly berating you in?

[Desperado]

zef i answered your question

what else do you want to talk about

[Desperado]

vote: abr

[Desperado]

Jesus Christ, that's Jason Bourne! Nice majiffy kill!

Ok here's the deal. Desperado is caught scum. Tried to posture Tywin and Majiffy as town vs town after I called him out on it, basically parroting my earlier read. Desp is scummy as fuck, everyone follow me!

VOTE: Desp

i never read majiffy and tywin as anything other than town

[Desperado]

vote: abr

Wtf is this for? This a serious vote?

why wouldn't it be

[Desperado]

don't care either way about mass claiming

[Desperado]

Why rge 4-star in particular?

I gave my 4-star ball to Imperium.

why would you give imperium a ball when they were either scum or a high probability NK target

[Desperado]

Tywin why aren't you voting right now?

[Desperado]

Tywin why aren't you voting right now?

I'm waiting for NC to respond, among others. I don't like throwing my vote around without weight behind it.

what? you spent the majority of d1 pushing majiffy and then linking him to Ali and Socrates. why do you need anyone's response to vote?

[Desperado]

Plus with Socrates wanting a mass claim, he could be a legit PR. I guess it wouldn't matter to put him at L1 thoufh after he claimed he's one already. He also could want it to get the vigi to claim. Not sure, but I'm second guessing my original SR on him.

thats fair but what about ali

[Desperado]

Tywin why aren't you voting right now?

I'm waiting for NC to respond, among others. I don't like throwing my vote around without weight behind it.

what? you spent the majority of d1 pushing majiffy and then linking him to Ali and Socrates. why do you need anyone's response to vote?

Reconsidering your reads is exactly what you do when there's a scumflip? That you naked-voted Albert without verbally showing any curiosity about what Majiffy's flip meant is the weird thing here.

I'm going to go eat, and then I'll give my big long massclaim argument that Clumsy asked for.

For the record, I didn't particularly scumread Desp yesterday, but he's already pinged me multiple times today.

why would tywin reconsider his reads when they were all predicated on majiffy being scum???

[Desperado]

and I'm pretty sure I said a maria scumflip would look good for abr

she didn't flip scum

there isn't even really a logical leap here to make

[Desperado]

Tywin why aren't you voting right now?

I'm waiting for NC to respond, among others. I don't like throwing my vote around without weight behind it.

what? you spent the majority of d1 pushing majiffy and then linking him to Ali and Socrates. why do you need anyone's response to vote?

My win con is to find and lynch scum, not go on a witch hunt of whoever was wrong on D1 after I was proven right. I seriously doubt that both Alisae and Socrates are scum, and I have doubts about either leitimately being scum here. It's too easy, just like how easy it was to lynch Maria.

I made plenty of pre-flip associations if/when Majiffy flipped scum, but that doesn't mean they're right. Why would scum buddy each other in the thread? It makes no sense. What does make sense is scum buddied townies that were already conf biased into thinking I was scum. Being wrong about me/Majiffy doesn't make them scum, and the most likely play scum made was to do what Not Chara (and you desperado) did and stay on the sideline of the 1v1 of me/Majiffy.

Smart scum don't buddy in the thread like Socrates/Ali did when they took majiffy's side, and nobody in this game is bad or new. All the players are high quality, which means thinking they'd make the obvious bad scum plays is a fallacy. Majiffy's play was even pretty damn good. I just recognized the tactics used, but they are great tactics regardless.


Also, why are you pushing me to vote? There's 13 days left til deadline, and I want to vote scum over town. Why are you voting ABR? He's pretty damn townie to me.

wtf???

you made plenty of accusations against Ali and Socrates yesterday for openly buddying majiffy. now you're saying scum wouldn't buddy that openly in thread?

[Desperado]

and me pressuring you to vote someone has nothing to do with the deadline and everything to do with your entire d1 play revolving around majiffy flipping scum, then majiffy flipping scum and you not following through on any of that

[Desperado]

He did flip scum, and my entire D1 play was to get him to flip. The things after that aren't so solid. I was almost certain of Majiffy being scum, but I don't have the same certainty with anyone else. Not yet anyways. I was tunneled on Majiffy, and even though others accused me of tunneling D1, I was confident I was tunneling scum. Idk about anyone else. We may need to flip Socrates no matter what, but I need to reread and see what exactly happened.

You still haven't answered my question about why you're voting ABR or if you have anything else to add? Your posts look like you're either trying to shade me specifically, or you're hoping to push me in a direction that you aren't taking yourself. What's the deal with that? Why are you worried about if I follow through with my pre-flip associations or not after my original SR proved to be correct? Am I not allowed to reevaluate after every flip? I'm curious why you haven't. What exactly make you think ABR is scum?

i've stated several reasons for thinking abr is scum and they haven't changed since yesterday so i don't feel the need to restate those reasons

i'm pushing you because i don't think you're reacting how i would expect town who tunneled a widely town/nullread scum and built a couple serious associative tells off of that scumread.

[Desperado]

Oh yes, yes, yes, I am aggressively throwing myself on the chopping block here.

But I am a very self-sacrifice oriented player, and if I can guarentee the Vig's safety tonight, and then he gets to shoot again tomorrow, we ensure 4 pro-town kills in two days and will be down to endgame anyway. A worthwhile use of my role in my view. (I also suck at playing doc.)

i've gone from not caring either way to being in favor of mass claim

i think it's not a very power heavy game anyway. doc + vig + something not super important is probably all we have

[Desperado]

do you disagree re: town's power?

[Desperado]

ps good luck justifying why i as "the scummiest player" would feel comfortable expressing support for mass claim "after all the ways it hurts town has been explained"

[Desperado]

i don't agree with this case, and it's not because of the Tywin townread.

waiting for the player you're pushing to be around to push is pretty basic. so is reconsidering after a period of time.
just looking at Tywin, the focus is obviously on their 1v1 with scum on day 1. they were frustrated at not being listened to so the focus was on players who had seemingly skirted the argument.

i feel like you're looking at an inconsistency and so feel confident in your case, because you have evidence that you can quote and prove. Tywin is obvious town. i concluded as much on my reread of the 1v1. it's simply not a scum fight.

i'm not scumreading tywin...

[Desperado]

i'm probing his thought process

you applied the word "case" so yes i'm going to split hairs

[Desperado]

Vote Desperado and make him claim

lol

I just expressed interest in a mass claim and im specing a very weak town where doc+vig might be all we have. what on Earth makes you think I'm afraid of claiming?

abr is scum. ali could easily be the third, giving a ball to imperium was bad and his explanation left a lot to be desired.

[Desperado]

ironically charisma is generally considered my best asset but for some reason everyone in this game thinks I'm a coasting all of nothing so who knows

no one can actually explain this of course but that hasn't stopped them from beating that drum and I don't have the energy to keep fighting a baseless accusation

[Desperado]

they approached majiffy in markedly different ways tho

[Desperado]

and tywin was the only person scumreading majiffy iirc so both scum townreading majiffy isn't outrageous

[Desperado]

Nice OMGUS guys. The moment I attack them, they both decide they will take me down. Take note.

[Desperado]

He was obvtown because of his dumb plan even before be revealed what it was lol. Scum don't execute convoluted plots like suggesting a massclaim d2.

yes they do

[Desperado]

hey guyz
my name is alisae
I am ATTACKING Tywin because he is ATTACKING MAJIFFY
Guyz. I am totally 100% considering Tywin because he is getting into conflict with someone who I am TRing.
I am 100% CHAINSAWING Majiffy. By ATTACKING Tywin.

"I know buzzwords but not what they are used for."

Tywin, really? This is shit scum would say? This? Or are you blinded by your need to go after your enemies after you caught a break?

cheeky scum, yes

[Desperado]

Tywin I am very disapointed in you leaving the despy wagon before he is forced to claim.

are you even reading my posts

[Desperado]

lmao are you fucking kidding me bro

[Desperado]

are you sure you don't have me confused with someone else like earlier when we had a conversation and then a day later you couldn't remember who I was or anything I had said?

[Desperado]

Why would I be kidding? Explain what I said that's wrong. You called me as Majiffy TvT. You voted Maria without reason and never moved. You immediately voted ABR without reason and haven't moved. When I ask for reasons why, you ignore me and get uppity about why I wasn't voting Socrates or Alisae, as if I'm required to do so for some reason. You're entire game has been anti-town at best. Who have you sorted and when did you ask questions to figure out if your reads are correct? What cases have you ever brought up against either Maria or ABR? Truth is, you haven't done anything at all. The only difference between you and Vifam are you post more, but everything you post is trash. Kind of like the last two. 'Lol got to be kidding me bro lol' and 'you sure you remember who I am?' about sums up you're entire game. You've done nothing to help find scum and your votes are always naked without reason or thought. You helped lynch an obvious townie yesterday while doing nothing to provide a reason why you SR her. You now vote ABR while doing nothing to provide reasons why you SR him.

I'm not swayed by NC and the crazy defense of Desp just makes me think their aligned. If Desp flips scum, NC is next. If not, then maybe we go for ABR, but I'm not swayed by any of the current arguments. They're all hypocritical, full of WIFOM, and don't actually give reasons why Desp is town over ABR. Not calling out Desp while calling out ABR looks hypocritical to me.

i gave several reasons for voting Maria. if you really believe all this the problem is you bro

[Desperado]

stop saying i think Alisae is town, i've denied that a few times.

Desp has skated by doing scummy things and not doing townie things, and all I have to go on for the contrary is your claimed ISO that says you completely understand where Desp comes from. Interesting to note, you never provided any reasons why you believe that, which isn't like you. You're usually very good at giving reasons for things..

another thing, scum questioning you here isn't an ideal move for them to make. the player you're pushing all day flips scum, and Desperado sees something he thinks is odd. so he presses it. i understand that, it's a town thought-process. is it a scum thought-process to press you here, Tywin? not even as a scumread, but because he doesn't understand where you're coming from. i don't agree with Desperado's opinion here, i didn't find your behaviour odd, but i found the way he thought about the situation to be towny.

yes, yes i have provided reasons. if they're not satisfactory then tell me what specific things you have a problem with and we can discuss it. specific things. if you say 'he does scummy things' i really cannot say anything in response.

but i'm so utterly tired of arguing this, and a Desperado townflip wouldn't be terrible in the long run. if Desperado is going to keep responding to you with crap instead of explanations because he's annoyed, i'll let him get lynched for it and i'll stop dealing with it.

What else am I supposed to do? He literally believes i never gave a reason for voting Maria.

[Desperado]

he also believes I haven't done anything all game to build reads

how am I supposed to react to that other than exasperated annoyance?

[Desperado]

Do whatever you want Desperado. I'm just one vote. Why worry about what I think? Try to get your scum read lynched by building a case. Maria is gone, so try another. It's not D1 anymore and you already lynched one townie.

is this really how your brain works???

[Desperado]

1) in what way do i appear worried about your vote or what you think
2) everything else you said in this post is straight posturing

[Desperado]

im in of namekians elite warriors, vt

didnt start with a ball and never got one

abr is scum. ali and clumsy might be scum. chara, zef, almost, and Socrates are town. tywin is town or sk. who knows with vifam.

ive also upgraded from wanting a mass claim to thinking it's necessary. the main reason I've seen arguing against it is outing other prs and revealing the vig but I don't think there are any other prs and if there are they are extremely weak like majiffys role, and even if it's a vig, crowdsourcing the shot is a lot more likely to hit scum than letting them heroshoot. if it's an sk then forcing them to claim today and leashing the shot is even more important still.

[Desperado]

you mean other than the in you gave them?

[Desperado]

and I'm struggling to understand that comment in the context of your vote still being on me

[Desperado]

"one of"

[Desperado]

im in of namekians elite warriors, vt

So was Imperium.
So thanks for maybe telling us Imperium didn't have a ball?

the only way this response makes sense is you if you think i'm town

so why are you still voting me?

[Desperado]

then how could i tell you anything about whether imperium had a ball?

[Desperado]

what else beyond "one of namekian's elite warriors" are you looking for?

[Desperado]

nope

did you read imperium's flip?

[Desperado]

you really don't read my fucking posts do you tywin

[Desperado]

im in of namekians elite warriors, vt

didnt start with a ball and never got one

abr is scum. ali and clumsy might be scum. chara, zef, almost, and Socrates are town. tywin is town or sk. who knows with vifam.

ive also upgraded from wanting a mass claim to thinking it's necessary. the main reason I've seen arguing against it is outing other prs and revealing the vig but I don't think there are any other prs and if there are they are extremely weak like majiffys role, and even if it's a vig, crowdsourcing the shot is a lot more likely to hit scum than letting them heroshoot. if it's an sk then forcing them to claim today and leashing the shot is even more important still.

[Desperado]

no, you said everyone is TRing alisae and that neither not chara or i is giving alternatives even if abr flips scum

which are demonstrably false statements

or you aren't reading my posts, either one

[Desperado]

@Desp: I don't read your insignificant posts when you give absolutely nothing to back it up. Saying scum are X town are y without any reason whatsoever shows you just throw names instead of real substance. There's nothing to take from it, so I don't care who you mention. Build a case or don't speak. You're anti-town af.

lol

you think all the words you just typed up re: alisae is a

case

?

[Desperado]

Desp mine as well not exist. He's a vote and that's it. All I see him do is whine and ignore anything that doesn't mention his name. Really tired of it. Makes me want to policy lynch him and see what flips regardless, but I'd rather win and then never join another game with the guy. Super annoying, especially since he probably isn't scum doing real scum manipulation that's game related, which is what Majiffy did. Majiffy had a win con reason to post what he did. Desp does not. That's the last I'll say of him.

you really can't go one post without some bullshit exaggeration can you

[Desperado]

no worries mate i apologize as well

[Desperado]

mass claim continues to be the best option

[Desperado]

there are plenty of reasons

[Desperado]

crowdsourcing the vig/leashing the sk and our doc already being out chief among them

[Desperado]

if you're against mass claim and you want me dead you should just be lynching me then

it doesn't make any sense to force another claim

[Desperado]

It conflicts with Nacho's role.
And even if it was real, there's 3 of them going by the picture.
Chances are it's most likely a fakeclaim to get cheep towncred.

You do realize Kuroi actually provides his scumsters with fake claims. Right?

Yeah I know this.
Claiming to be

in

the elite warriors gets towncred because scum wouldn't do that.
Except he's doing it. And he's scum.

I'm saying he came up with that and chose to use that over his fake claim.

that was a typo bro

[Desperado]

that was a typo bro

Alisae wasn't making a point about the difference between 'in' and 'one of'.
are you scumreading Clumsy's play today?

looked like he was to me given the emphasis but ok

yes. there were also a few things d1 I didn't like

[Desperado]

Agreed with NC, mass claim on Day 2 when we're winning is idiotic and scum-driven.

this is just correct, yes.

what don't you like about today from Clumsy?

the way they are presuming my lynch has been a foregone conclusion. if Ali is town they are probably scum. if somehow ali and Abe are both town clumsy is definitely scum

[Desperado]

it doesn't

but it also isn't a town mindset

[Desperado]

im also biased by the way they've approached me all game tho

[Desperado]

I also revealed receiving the ball because I wanted people to know that ClumsyPheonix did that. What do YOU make of him doing that?

Town who trusted you or scum p with you (in which case this may or may not be true to begin with). There's no 3rd way about it. Scum will not pass a ball to Town and Town would not lie about receiving a ball. Since we all chose to trust you then you should be both Town.

scum passed orbs in a setup very similar to this in mystic mafia

[Desperado]

viewtopic.php?p=8819055#p8819055

kagami and infinity both passed orbs. infinity likely because he knew he would be lynched soon but kagami was pure towncred

[Desperado]

pretty much the same as the balls as far as I can tell. they started shit between town and scum, could be passed freely at night, and whoever assembled all of them would wield ~great power~

[Desperado]

they started split between town and scum*

[Desperado]

i think it's not a very power heavy game anyway. doc + vig + something not super important is probably all we have

Desperado, i don't understand how you could really think the town setup is doc + vig and that the mafia wouldn't have any counters to that. roleblocker, an x-shot strongman? i think i meant to comment on this earlier but i realized i never did.

doc + vig isn't that powerful of a town to begin with, why would scum need a direct counter?

majiffy already flipping a relatively useless role + all the VT claims suggests to me that there's not much in the way of scum power, which suggests that there isn't much town power beyond what's claimed either

[Desperado]

allowing the town a vig-kill every single night isn't strong?

not when you factor in a vig's likelihood to shoot town, no

[Desperado]

one day you or ali or clumsy will show what exactly i've been overlooking

[Desperado]

Hiya!

Can everyone link me to where they say why they're voting for who they are? I'm doing some digging on my own but that will help me get up to speed.

I'm phone posting, but I don't think there have been many formal, unified case posts from many people anyway.

I'm voting Desperado because of how he reacted to my mass claim suggestion.

and why is that reaction indicative of scum and not consistent with me being a vt who has deduced that this is a power light game where you claiming unprompted made massclaim optimal fmpov?

[Desperado]

mm, not really. at least i hope not. when you put it like that, it doesn't sound like a very good reason. i thought his earlier play was town-motivated. his play today has thoroughly disappointed me.

ive tried over and over to engage people on their poor "coasting/sidelining" read on me all game and no one ever can or is willing to. i don't think my play has changed much at all from d1 to d2.

there's only so many times I can accept listening to the same flawed argument, and when someone like tywin spends all his energy failing to remember who I am or anything I've said but then ~magically~ shares several of my opinions later, I begin to lose interest in giving a fuck.

[Desperado]

you think it's a bus with a scum shot N1

and both of handling majiffy v tywin in the same manner???

da fuq

[Desperado]

@ music box, clumsy, imperium, Maria, and alisae were all claimed or flipped, I knew my own role, doc+vig/so we're out and I knew majiffys shitty scum pr

[Desperado]

I just don't see a bus on D2 with one scum flip already. It's possible, but not probable. Desp, since you're at L1 now, anything to add? I'm pretty sure you're going to be the lynch.

nah it is what it is. as far as I can tell im getting lynched for something I haven't actually done and for deducing that mass claim would be beneficial.

shoot lycan tonight, his vote one me was absolutely horrible. lynch abr tomorrow. then look at ali and clumsy.

Godspeed

[Desperado]

I'm not gonna defend him like NC did, but of all the possible candidates, his claim looks the most legit to me. Would ABR bus his scum buddy on D2 with one scum flip already?

Furthermore, would abr and I as scum buddies cross bus in D2 with majiffy dead?

its an inexplicable opinion and looks like Lycan was just trying to keep my wagon momentum up while trying to look different

[Desperado]

Tsuno, VT.
Was the holder of the 4 star ball.
I was a leader of a village that was slaughtered by Vegeta

[Desperado]

crowdsourcing the vig/leashing the sk and our doc already being out chief among them

and this is the main reason ive been so vocal about mass claiming. weak town, weak scum team, serial killer is what I'm thinking right now, so I think it's imperative that we force claims now we leash that shot.