DoY I: British Monarchy Mafia (Mini 1896) - Game Over :O

[Infinity 324]

4 pages while I was asleep 0_0

I'm a miller

[Infinity 324]

voting in RVS for other players is scummy

If you think RVS is bad, ok

But scummy? Town does RVS too lol

[Infinity 324]

I'm not gonna lie dreal I'm legit scumreading you already here

-- Postie

Why?

[Infinity 324]

ah, dreal. never change.
VOTE: The Wood Cutters
~Chara

Spoiler: My Reaction when you could obviously give a reason for switching votes in RVS but don't.

I don't like this

[Infinity 324]

interesting, what is it based on then? (you're wrong, btw, but hey the way you came to the read so far gets you townpings)

This pings as well

[Infinity 324]

I don't think we have bicycles yet, so

*hands postie a paddle* - you can go ahead and backpaddle

Do you think postie is scum? If so, vote?

[Infinity 324]

if anyone TRs anyone before page 10, I'm going to vote them!

Obvious town

[Infinity 324]

I wasn't trying to dismiss it, that was a guess, I asked you a question with it, you could have simply said "no that'd be stupid" and then given your thoughts, instead we're here, and you're still not explaining the read (believe me, I understand not being able to describe why I have a SR, it's nothing damning), that's all I'm trying to do, is understand

it was perhaps my mistake suggesting an explanation for you instead of just letting you explain, but, that was where my mind went, and so I shared it

This post feels appeasey as fuck.

-- Postie

I disagree, I think you're confbiasing

[Infinity 324]

@MOD: V/LA until further notice. I am having issues with the hydra.

Is it ok if I post from this account until I get the issues fixed?

Absolutely!
I normally will not count any votes made out-of-hydra, but I can make an exception since it appears there is an ongoing issue with hydrae at the moment.

Please ensure that you quote all posts made by either head from the proper account at your earliest convenience.

What, you're not going to threaten him with force replace?

[Infinity 324]

VOTE: ThinkMomo

Sowing seeds of confusion already.

I don't like this ignore of everything that's happened so far

Wrt dreal: I've seen his SK game and town game and I can't really tell the difference, maybe his scumgame would be different though. Right now it seems like normal dreal.

[Infinity 324]

I'm on board with a VOTE: Drealmerz

What really pinged me was his last post where he goes 'if x is scum... but if x is town...'
I feel like that wishy-washyness is a very easy way for scum to still be free to create an opinion on T&B in order to appease everyone. Like, if people end up scumreading him then drealmerz can sway that way and hop on, but if he's going to be universally townread then he can appease town by agreeing with that read instead. I feel like the phrasing of his statement is rather iffy in itself too.

Why does he have to have a solid read this early?

[Infinity 324]

4 pages while I was asleep 0_0

I'm a miller

For reals?

Unvote
Vote: Dreal

- I have not been liking his posts.

Yes

This wagon hop is bad

[Infinity 324]

I don't think we have bicycles yet, so

*hands postie a paddle* - you can go ahead and backpaddle

Do you think postie is scum? If so, vote?

I know Postie isn't scum.

=)

I was talking to dreal, silly

[Infinity 324]

@108: Why not question chara about this more? I think you're reading into it too much.

[Infinity 324]

VOTE: empking

"Helpful" question and naked wagon hop are probably the scummiest things of anything so far

[Infinity 324]

Maybe it's a playstyle thing, but it looks to me like it's written more like a case than an attempt to sort.

[Infinity 324]

That makes me feel like you are town for some reason. Maybe cause seeing 108 in that context, it's a good preliminary scumread.

[Infinity 324]

How much you wanna bet the last page is gin?

It'd be nice if you explained your reads though, gin

[Infinity 324]

Ok so you're saying nancy is town cause she doesn't have doubt? Doubt on what?

[Infinity 324]

Ok so you're saying nancy is scum cause she doesn't have doubt? Doubt on what?

EBWOP

I'm not going to blindly sheep you, no matter what your player names are.

[Infinity 324]

135 is vague and I'm trying to clarify it. You don't have to be so cranky.

I don't see why OMGUSing you and saying your reads suck is scummy.

[Infinity 324]

What wording would not leave him open to flip-flopping unless he stated a solid read?

[Infinity 324]

What wording would not leave him open to flip-flopping unless he stated a solid read?

I really can't be arsed to rephrase what I said again. Can you just roll with it please

No?

I want you to give me a phrasing of dreal's post that he could've made that wouldn't leave him open to flip-flopping and that doesn't give a solid read. Because I don't think there is one.

[Infinity 324]

Oh, you're right.

[Infinity 324]

Gin, how do you differentiate between "genuine" OMGUS and other OMGUS? Is it just that OMGUS was the sole reason for the vote?

[Infinity 324]

she voted because mastina didn't but a fucking question mark

As far as I can tell this is false

You're trying to associate the statements in nancy's post where to me they are separate. The reason for the vote was the last question I think (nancy thought mastin was judging too quickly and not doubting herself enough).

[Infinity 324]

By the way gin, how's RL stuff going?

[Infinity 324]

Yeah I like prism so far

[Infinity 324]

Empking, because maybe he thought dreal was prominent enough for everyone to have a read on (even though that's not true)

[Infinity 324]

Empking, because maybe he thought dreal was prominent enough for everyone to have a read on (even though that's not true)

How is that relevant to his position in the list?

If mastin had a read on him, he probably wouldn't be in the middle

[Infinity 324]

I should probably stop answering for people, I'm too impatient lol

[Infinity 324]

What does prism's post have to do with anything?

Superjack, if you think something should've been addressed to you, answer it!

[Infinity 324]

Superjack, why did you ask why dreal was in the middle of the list?

[Infinity 324]

What wording would not leave him open to flip-flopping unless he stated a solid read?

I really can't be arsed to rephrase what I said again. Can you just roll with it please

No?

I want you to give me a phrasing of dreal's post that he could've made that wouldn't leave him open to flip-flopping and that doesn't give a solid read. Because I don't think there is one.

You've answered your own question there.

Go question someone else now; I'm done here.

If you agree with my answer to the question, why didn't you retract your scumread on dreal?

I'm not going to stop questioning you until you give me answers.

[Infinity 324]

P.S. I feel it;s going to be impossible to fake anything and get it past The Wood Cutters. Between them 3 they have seen almost everything I'm capable of, so I'm going to come clean: We're just a mere VT

You wanna take a guess why I seriously hate this post, this part in particular?

Cause he's scared of you. And I agree.

[Infinity 324]

VOTE: almost

[Infinity 324]

Almost, I want reads and why you're scared of woodcutters.

[Infinity 324]

I want thoughts from tea and biscuits that isn't fluff or a dreal scumread

[Infinity 324]

Yeah or at least initial thoughts.

I also want to know why you're scared of woodcutters.

[Infinity 324]

Prism what do you think of my townread on you?

[Infinity 324]

How am I getting in the way 0_0

[Infinity 324]

I'm not helping anyone, I'm questioning you because you look scummy to me

I still don't understand why town would care about woodcutters being able to see through fake shit and why you would claim VT so early

[Infinity 324]

Ok, why

[Infinity 324]

Why what?

Why do you feel my questioning of you is scummy

[Infinity 324]

I'm not going to blindly sheep you, no matter what your player names are.

We didn't ask you to!

...Yet.

138 seems like asking me to

[Infinity 324]

@238: I'm king Edward, I'm a Miller cause I was technically never crowned

But doesn't town RVS just as much as scum? So doesn't that make it not scummy by definition?

Don't want to go after dreal for now because I agree with him on things including the almost vote.

@240 Meh. As long as I don't out specific reasons I don't see the problem.

[Infinity 324]

King Edward V*

[Infinity 324]

I obviously don't believe that he's doing it because we're "oh so scary"

Why not? It definitely read that way to me.

I don't think you guys are arrogant, I just didn't like that gin wanted me to vote nancy and wasn't really explaining why.

[Infinity 324]

I agree that I don't think town!almost was scared of you

But sure, I'll wait for him to clarify more.

[Infinity 324]

I don't see why a real claim wild make more flavor sense than a fakeclaim. But I don't really know the flavor

[Infinity 324]

I don't see why a real claim wild make more flavor sense than a fakeclaim. But I don't really know the flavor

Also, Edward V is supposed to be a miller cause he was never crowned officially.

[Infinity 324]

Not sure about what to think about so many people sharing my view on things.

[Infinity 324]

Wraith, why vote nancy instead of AC?

[Infinity 324]

UNVOTE:

That explanation is good enough for me

Still want to know why you got scum pings from my initial push, almost.

[Infinity 324]

I don't think scum!nacho would single out me to shadow so I'm tentatively going to call him town. There's also some meta contributing to that read.

[Infinity 324]

Why did you think that suspicion of me would get me off your back?

[Infinity 324]

From an objective standpoint I shouldn't have made those-as I'm confident you'll scumread them-but you'll have to excuse a bit of selfindulgence.

This continued "nacho will scumread this" posting kind of bothers me

What did you think of my early townread of you prism?

[Infinity 324]

Also I'm not scumreading dreal anymore. I started doubting the scumread pretty quickly but wanted to keep pushing him to see if anything useful would come out of it. He's producing some content now that looks like I could potentially get a read from when I have a clearer head so I'm not really interested in tunneling there anymore.

This is very likely town

[Infinity 324]

UNVOTE: for now.

Like, my feelings on TWC are vague and I've got to run at a pretty inopportune time, but how I'm feeling reading that page 11+random select posts, I would,

at this immediate moment

, be

really

surprised if that slot flips town, even if I don't know why.

Sorry I thought you missed my question

Is nacho's scumgame this good? When I played with him as scum before he was more nitpicky and less...genuine-looking

[Infinity 324]

Prism, another reason why I townread twc is that so many of nacho's thoughts matched up with mine (although more in depth), and I don't know why he would pick out me to shadow. I think he would come up with more different reads as scum.

345 bothers me. The part about nancy feels fake.

Note: knowing that someone has a good scumgame will definitely affect my read on them.

[Infinity 324]

I'll let postie respond to that, but I think the narrative of "I doubted my scumread much earlier but pushed it anyway for reactions" makes sense with what I know of postie and fits with her posts imo

We'll talk more once postie explains herself

[Infinity 324]

I voted almost, then unvote after the explanation

I don't have anything worth voting. Maybe empking but I want to wait for something more from him.

[Infinity 324]

Slight lean scum but too early to tell

[Infinity 324]

I didn't like that he didn't engage much earlier on, but his wall shared a lot of my thoughts and looked relatively genuine. So lean town.

Although he's different from when I played with him as town before, so many have to look into it more.

I don't see why I would talk about an association I know is false.

[Infinity 324]

Because I don't know or think wraith will flip scum, so I don't care. Even if I had an argument against it, which I probably don't.

[Infinity 324]

Nacho, what do you think about wraith being different from OotS?

[Infinity 324]

I'll go over his wall again tomorrow, but iirc he picked up on things that I also thought but didn't state in thread and it's more likely for town to have the same thought process as town than scum.

[Infinity 324]

Order of the stick mafia

[Infinity 324]

What do you think about almost's explanation

[Infinity 324]

What do you think about almost's explanation

I don't really buy it. Its not impossble, but its stll aswful and the whole situation gives me a scum read on her.

Almost didn't 'Town Claim' -> 'lol I gambitted', she 'town claim' -> 'awful excuse involving role cops' -> 'lol, i gambited'. The town-gambit explanation looks more like an excuse - and if people didn't buy and still pushed it then she'd come up with another - for a scum gambit.

That paragraph probable come across as more certain than I really feel.

I think he was waiting for wood cutters to respond and that's why he came up with the bs reason

I don't see why you didn't say this before though. It seems important.

[Infinity 324]

it's more likely for town to have the same thought process as town than scum

False. At least, not in what they say in the thread.

-- Postie

In my experience, it's generally true.

[Infinity 324]

I'll let postie respond to that, but I think the narrative of "I doubted my scumread much earlier but pushed it anyway for reactions" makes sense with what I know of postie and fits with her posts imo

We'll talk more once postie explains herself

Slight lean scum but too early to tell

Stop with what you're assuming she said and take some time to

actually

read over what she said.

Explaining the new scumread on me would be helpful because as far as I know you've only mentioned the interactions with nancy. I don't think telling her to stop picking lose/lose is alignment indicative either way since if she's town I need her as much as she needs me, regardless of what I am.

I see what you're saying and I want you two to continue the interaction. It looks bad on the surface but I don't think scum!postie has to admit she's lying to back out of a read.

Wrt nancy, it was just that it felt fake. A wording thing, that's it.

Also I didn't like how you kept saying that nacho would be bothered by your posting. It felt unnatural and perhaps trying to pre-empt his possible suspicion of you.

[Infinity 324]

Prism, what's the difference between postie lying about her scumread to pressure dreal and almost lying about his motivations to continue that gambit?

[Infinity 324]

The Town lean on Infinity is mine. I don't think Chara commented on that slot yet.

I thought you said chara town leaned me for my push.

[Infinity 324]

Oh I'm sorry you forgot you mentioned how we were scum but you couldn't say why.

You're keeping it vague because you know, if you're scum, that we will literally tear your shit apart and expose you.

It's not hard to see that you're dodging it because you fucked up saying we looked scummy.

Somehow I really doubt this

[Infinity 324]

VOTE: empking

This game needs a better direction. Scum are probably either prism or mostly lurking.

[Infinity 324]

Furthermore, why were posts such as

4 pages while I was asleep 0_0

I'm a miller

Miller? In a Mini?

...Really?

King Edward V*

rofl are you serious?

One of the Princes in the Tower? A Miller?

I just don't buy it.

not accompanied by a vote on Infinity?

VOTE: Wraith

It feels like you're trying to find something to nitpick for the sake of it, allowing you to criticise Infinity without having to commit to a real push on him. It's scummy and also reads like potential distancing. 130 in particular is terrible; I don't know how to explain it but just read it dear god.

If Wraith flips scum lynch Infinity.

-- Postie

Ok I'll go through this now cause it's easier to address an argument than elaborate on my townread. I get what you're saying here, and it does look somewhat suspicious. But keep in mind that wraith was not really very motivated to engage with the actual content, and I find it reasonably likely that wraith was suspicious of my claim but hadn't looked into my content until he did, and he liked my content.

I'll go over his catchup later which I liked.

...but maybe I shouldn't townread him off a catchup since those are so easy to fake. Anyway.

By the way I also don't like how prism is mainly going for "objective tells" instead of trying to get into people's heads, it could be playstyle but I'm expecting a little bit more than "postie lied she's scum!!!"

[Infinity 324]

Pocketed by wood cutters?

Possible. They're only a lean town so far. But I really like what nacho has put out so far.

[Infinity 324]

Why?

[Infinity 324]

What specifically changed between now and your last post that made you want to vote him here?

By the way, wraith should be a lean scum cause I've seen scum make good catchups where I've agreed with a lot of the points in them before.

[Infinity 324]

I think I've given my reasons for townreading the hydrae already.

I think with how many arguments and how much chaos there is I'd expect scum to be on the sidelines letting it happen.

[Infinity 324]

if anyone TRs anyone before page 10, I'm going to vote them!

Obvious town

Infinity324, why is delaying a read until page 10 "Obvious town"?
If anything that's trying to get people to discourage their gut. Gut, logic, emotion, all of it has a role.

I do not like you calling drealmerz obvious town for things that are horrible to do. Sometimes a ping at the start of the game is accurate.

It's a joke because dreal said it was scummy to give early townreads

[Infinity 324]

@238: I'm king Edward, I'm a Miller cause I was technically never crowned

But doesn't town RVS just as much as scum? So doesn't that make it not scummy by definition?

Don't want to go after dreal for now because I agree with him on things including the almost vote.

@240 Meh. As long as I don't out specific reasons I don't see the problem.

That flavor makes sense for a miller, but also for scum. I just wish people would quit claiming. Is this a standard thing to do in a closed setup?
I find giving information to Reaper scum a bad idea. Let's not do that k? K. Great. Great.

Leaving drealmerz alone is a bad idea even if you think drealmerz is voting scum. Scum bus. Wouldn't you want to figure out if drealmerz is bussing or not?

drealmerz are you scum?

Miller claim d1 is standard so that cop doesn't target me.

I don't do pre-flip associations, but I'm generally not sure how to read dreal so I'm comfortable putting him at weak town for now for agreeing with him and seeing where things go later.

[Infinity 324]

Data on my omnitool says Infinity has fake claimed cop before. I do not find the miller claim believable. Furthermore miller does match the history in the sense of neveer being crowned but a 12 year old boy who gets assassinated by Richard is unlikely a miller. Not crowed yes, which I found a first glance. Looking deeper I find miller unlikely. The question is if Infinity324 is lying as I suspect he is if he is scum for it.

Assuming scum get fakeclaims, again, I don't know why my real claim would make more flavor sense than a fakeclaim.

[Infinity 324]

Shepard, 99% of the time a word mixup is a word mixup is not a slip. I've done that dozens of time as both alignments.

Though I townread you so far for gut.

[Infinity 324]

Shepard, you admitted yourself that scumslip a tend to come from town more often than scum

wtf is this. No one is making the counter argument cause it's obvious: postie just mixed up a word regardless of her alignment so it's NAI. That's it

[Infinity 324]

I mean we already have one conf!scum in ThinkMomo slot.

ThinkBig is literally a lurk sack and never posts when he's scum. Funny how he's doing the same in this game. I'm just finding the other two.

gin head correct?

Yeah, I'm refering to the open i modded and Pine's game he hosted to the thing on ThinkBig doing jack.

But he also lurked the fuck out of rogue one

[Infinity 324]

Welcome, RC and Shephard.

Apologies for my absence but I've been traveling all day and will be tomorrow as well. I'll try to remember to save the game as a PDF to read on the plane.

That's a really good idea, why did I never think of that

[Infinity 324]

Postie/nancy readslists?

also can I get a readslist from Infinity?

{T&B}
{TWC, Shepard, AC, dreal, TM}
Null: {RC, nancy, pine}
{wraith, empking, prism}

[Infinity 324]

https://youtu.be/jtXX3aAPPwg?t=10

Haha this is great

[Infinity 324]

RC why is nancy town? Nancy why is RC town?

[Infinity 324]

VOTE: wraith cause someone else is voting wraith...

[Infinity 324]

Nacho, what do you think about wraith being different from OotS?

Not sure if nacho has posted since I asked this but just so he doesn't miss it.

[Infinity 324]

What specifically changed between now and your last post that made you want to vote [postie] here?

I find it interesting you have no comment on my read switch on you.

[Infinity 324]

@700
It's not 60/40, it's 10/3.1. Scum barely "scumslip" more often than town. Also you agreed with gin's statement that scum are usually the ones who push scumslips so how do you think that pushing scumslips is valid??

Of course you can't go by probability and have to look at context. But there no special context here. It's just that postie claims to have said the wrong word which made her post look scummy. Is it possible that it was a scumslip? Sure. But is there any reason to believe that it was? Does that explanation fit Occam's razor? No it does not.

[Infinity 324]

Shepard, all that shows to me is that it makes way more sense for postie to be trying to say "if wraith is town" than to be trying to say "if wraith is scum".

If I assume wraith is town it changes absolutely nothing. I don't do preflip associatives.

[Infinity 324]

Shepard: "if wraith is town what are your reads?"

Which response makes more sense:

Postie: "if wraith is scum, idk"
Postie: "if wraith is town, idk"

[Infinity 324]

The word choice thing only happened once, in 496. That's what your entire case is based on.

Its much simpler to believe it was a word choice error than a scumslip. Believing it was a scumslip requires assuming that postie wouldn't be very careful as scum, and that postie would answer a "if wraith is town" question with "if wraith is scum".

[Infinity 324]

Assume Wraith is town. What changes for you?

I don't have any other scumreads; haven't thought that far ahead. I'd probably start pressuring the lurkers and trying to sort dreal again.

-- Postie

Why would you have to think about future scumreads?

VOTE: Tea and Biscuits

Based on this too.

I just quoted it Infinity.
Seriously.

Two scumslips in that short of time I don't buy coming from town.

How is this a scumslip or even scummy? Not thinking ahead isn't NAI

[Infinity 324]

isn't AI*

[Infinity 324]

Shepard: "if wraith is town what are your reads?"

Which response makes more sense:

Postie: "if wraith is scum, idk"
Postie: "if wraith is town, idk"

This is an important point.

[Infinity 324]

@Infinity It is scummy because it shows Postie is thinking about reads rather than having them. She hasn't made them up yet.
Second point asked and answered. And it is not the exact question asked.

Why can't town just...not have other scumreads?

isn't AI*

And now I have to decide if that is a phone autocorrect you trolling me or a scumslip

*sigh*

It's none of the three, I just mistyped

[Infinity 324]

Are you usually good at reading RC?

[Infinity 324]

Ok I'll hold you to that then

nancy and RC are the same alignment. That concludes my efforts to sort you two.

[Infinity 324]

What specifically changed between now and your last post that made you want to vote [postie] here?

I find it interesting you have no comment on my read switch on you.

Wraith...

[Infinity 324]

ThinkMomo gets a light townread for the one in three rule. Wraith is already not getting my vote til T&B flips.

ThinkMomo + Wraith town block?

Honey i'm gonna have to stop you right there before I policy lynch you of your reads.

First off.

ThinkMomo.

ThinkBig.

Lurks as scum.

ThinkBig is lurking.

ThinkMomo is lurking.

ThinkMomo is scum.


That should be simple enough for you to follow.

Again gin, thinkbig lurked the fuck out of rogue one.

[Infinity 324]

Gin, ok wrt thinkbig but it's most likely RL stuff anyway

[Infinity 324]

Can we

PLEASE

not

[Infinity 324]

If we don't lynch him we get one more chance not to get to lylo.

We're not policy lynching d1.

[Infinity 324]

WTF I REMEMBER YOU POSTING THAT LIKE A WHILE AGO BUT YOU JUST POSTED IT NOW HELP

Same, actually...

[Infinity 324]

251 is the count i'm referring to, Shepard. my memory was off, i was actually townreading dreal at the time. and looking at the quotes, dreal actually voted us somewhat quickly after ThinkMomo did. so the situation isn't precisely what i thought it was.
still, two scum voting together when town players were scumreading us isn't exactly odd.
~Chara

This one

[Infinity 324]

According to some probably sketchy math I just did, if you discount the possibility of nancy and RC being different alignments, there is a 91.7% chance they are both town.

[Infinity 324]

If they're both scum we probably weren't going to win anyway, but I'll take the blame then.

[Infinity 324]

Was about to say, that's a good thing

[Infinity 324]

T&B is lock town I think.

[Infinity 324]

RC hasn't even started playing yet so there's literally no way you can say you know which alignment he is with a straight face

So were you joking about the souled read thing? 0_0

[Infinity 324]

T&B is lock town I think.

but why.

~Chara

I've spectated a bunch of postie's games and gotten to know her thought process decently well. (Not creepy at all) It's similar to mine in some ways. Things like the worry about confbiasing and pushing a scumread even though you realize it's probably wrong fit very well with a town mindset and specifically a town!postie mindset and are hard and pointless to fake as scum.

RC hasn't even started playing yet so there's literally no way you can say you know which alignment he is with a straight face

So were you joking about the souled read thing? 0_0

Huh? No.

Just to clarify, you're saying you can read RC but you don't think postie can yet?

T&B is lock town I think.

Um, the phrase "I think" is usually used to express a degree of doubt.. How can you have a degree of doubt about not having any doubt about someone's alignment?

They're close to lock town but not exactly there yet.

[Infinity 324]

Here's something to cheer you up: a townbloc. Me, T&B, you, RC. If you and RC agree to it.

[Infinity 324]

RC why is nancy town? Nancy why is RC town?

Soulread.

RC hasn't even started playing yet so there's literally no way you can say you know which alignment he is with a straight face

So were you joking about the souled read thing? 0_0

Huh? No.

I haven't decided what alignment RC is yet so no, but thanks.

[Infinity 324]

You don't have to be able to bet the game on everyone in the townbloc yet...

Anyway w/e

[Infinity 324]

It looked to me you had at least a very solid townread

I can't understand you

[Infinity 324]

Let's wagon wraith

[Infinity 324]

What specifically changed between now and your last post that made you want to vote [postie] here?

I find it interesting you have no comment on my read switch on you.

Wraith...

It's funny how questions don't disappear

[Infinity 324]

The replace out at this precise time right after the Newbie game finished (where he was scum and I called him out but nobody listened) doesn't bode well with me.

RC is way more confident as scum than to do something like that

[Infinity 324]

1- Read the post-game section. I totally forgot he was already in another game with me (this one) and bragged about having been able to guess his alignment correct in 2 back-to-back games and made a wish for a third, and he immediately replaced out from this one.

Again, scum!RC is way way more confident than to replace out for that reason.

[Infinity 324]

No, the argument is that postie was directly answering your question, there's no way it was a slip.

[Infinity 324]

I'm talking to shepard.....

But since you brought it up, did RC admit postgame that it was an actual slip? Otherwise it's irrelevant

[Infinity 324]

No, the argument is that postie was directly answering your question, there's no way it was a slip.

This is supposed to say "the argument is that if postie..."

[Infinity 324]

Postie scumslipped.
I caught it.
Everyone says it is not a slip and/or Postie is too good to do it.

No, the argument is that if postie was directly answering your question, there's no way it was a slip.

[Infinity 324]

Ok don't really feel like reading that right now but judging RC's personality is gonna be a lot more effective in evaluating a calculated decision like a replace out than a potential scumslip.

[Infinity 324]

Just so you know shepard, I think I know who you are but I'm not letting that affect how I view you in this game.

[Infinity 324]

Nothing else to say except that prism's case on AC is continuing to feel like a stretch, and possibly a scummy one. He seems to be picking on weird stuff that is just not AI.

[Infinity 324]

Don't know what those roles do but it just confuses normal cop (or sheriff). Flips as town miller.

[Infinity 324]

Yeah that makes sense.

post 439

Look at the amount of depth here, and wraith also said he had burnout in that game not too long before that post.

[Infinity 324]

Sorry TWC, but it's very confusing trying to read your posts when the situation for each head is different and I don't know which head is talking. If you're going to act as individual heads, please sign your posts.

[Infinity 324]

Ok that clears that part up. The problem is just that in general if you guys disagree on something or someone is catching up and the others aren't it can get confusing if you don't sign and it's annoying to have to figure out which head is which.

[Infinity 324]

Nacho, what do you think of my townread on you?

[Infinity 324]

What's up farside

[Infinity 324]

Hey, it's a mini order of the stick reunion now.

[Infinity 324]

never did Almost claim Think flaked because momo flaked. i don't appreciate your attempt to obfuscate what Almost was saying.
his idea was that Thinkbig was lurking because he's scum, and momo wasn't happy with the situation and so lurked it out as well due to being left alone.

i don't find any of that particularly ugly. sure, flaking is annoying, but it's not reprehensible to lurk.

my reasons for scumreading ThinkMomo aren't activity related, but momo posting in other games and not here is telling as well.
~Chara

Maybe momo forgot about this game

Maybe thinkbig was lurking not because he's scum (wasn't he busy?) and momo gave up cause thinkbig wasn't posting

[Infinity 324]

Ok but I think it's likely momo was demotivated from thinkbig not posting

[Infinity 324]

Shaddow's posts look pretty shallow to me so far and I may want to vote him instead of wraith. He can be lynchbait as town but I don't think he's this shallow.

[Infinity 324]

i've never played with shaddowez, but why is he lynchbait and not shallow in the games you've played with him?

Honestly it's just something I remember thinking and I don't remember exactly why. But last game I played with scum!him he was also quite shallow.

This is the last (maybe only?) towngame I played with him.

viewtopic.php?t=68158&f=23&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

[Infinity 324]

Shadow replaced RC...hmm. I don't really think RC would play like this as scum and I want to give weight to nancy's soulread.

[Infinity 324]

Why is shaddowez without a single vote? the same logic i can see behind havingfitz seems relevant to that guy too yet

Shadow's slot hasn't really done enough to get a solid scumread.

PEdit: nancy claimed to have a strong townread on RC cause she knows him that well or something.

[Infinity 324]

Shadow replaced RC...hmm. I don't really think RC would play like this as scum and I want to give weight to nancy's soulread.

RC didn't get to playing before replacing out for personal reasons. an NAI replace-out. and nancy said that she wouldn't have a confident townread in RC until he started playing the game.
i would just read shaddowez from here and form conclusions that way.
~Chara

True

But scum!RC fucking around then replacing out doesn't seem that likely to me

Wrt the soulread: nancy said it was a strong townread but to be 100% confident she needed RC to post game-relevant stuff. Not sure how much to weight that last post but maybe it's best to throw it out.

[Infinity 324]

6@Infinity whats your case on wraith ? whats your read on having

Having is null for me.

The case on wraith is that he went in way more depth with stuff when I played with him as town.

What would be your thoughts on the VC without pre-flip associatives. IE how many of the wagons do you think are scum and how would you expect scum to be distributed. Not taking into account your reads.

[Infinity 324]

I also agree with people that wraith's treatment of me was odd.

[Infinity 324]

not having read wraith at all your reasons seems pretty superficials

Yeah they are. There were a couple other small things (like him not commenting on my read switch on him) but it's not really a strong read and I don't usually have strong reads d1.

[Infinity 324]

What would be your thoughts on the VC without pre-flip associatives. IE how many of the wagons do you think are scum and how would you expect scum to be distributed. Not taking into account your reads.

whats yours?

Idk. I don't do VCA that often, that's why I asked you

Why is fitz scum?

[Infinity 324]

So you think nancy was town?

[Infinity 324]

Last game I played with town!TB in a hydra he literally didn't post.

I want to know your thoughts on prism. And everyone else's as well. There are quite a few things bothering me from that slot and since nacho said he's good at scum I doubt depth and effort are towntells for him.

Going to ISO AC at some point to see if I see what farside sees.

[Infinity 324]

I feel like an awful hydra head right now. Sorry everyone that I have not been active as much as I'd like. Weekends are super busy for me and right before Passover is even worse. I'll try to post some tonight!

-TB

I have been working like 10+ hours each day the past few weeks.

I don't think activty should a reason to scumread this slot. At least, not a strong one.

[Infinity 324]

CK, I really doubt scum say they're busy more than town do

Chara, I'm not even talking to you.

[Infinity 324]

Chara, why is prism town?

PEdit: oh. I thought it was just farside but ok

[Infinity 324]

If I was busy I would say so as town so that people would understand and not scumread me because of it.

[Infinity 324]

If I was busy I would say so as town so that people would understand and not scumread me because of it.

which is survivalism, a trait that comes more often from scum than town, i personnaly dont really care to be fosed because of activity as town because

->if im being lynched for it, its town's fault
->I know i can bleedtown if i need to

Most town, in my experience, do care.

[Infinity 324]

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=69912

Rogue one, I mentioned it before. Thinkbig posted twice.

[Infinity 324]

What do you mean by that last line

[Infinity 324]

Cloud probably didn't read pine's posts. Being a replacement is a lot different from saying you are busy/making excuses

[Infinity 324]

Cloud probably didn't read pine's posts. Being a replacement is a lot different from saying you are busy/making excuses

I don't know.
Maybe I've seen replacements mainly say I'm busy and need to replace out more often then not.
But what cloud is referring to is not a scum tell.

Ok but does that make cloud scum?

[Infinity 324]

Why almostchara is scum.
First you have the catch up from almost which is pretty useless nothing of value to offer
A50 head from the start just makes lots of noise, claims he's trying to figure players out but does more naratives then scum hunting.
See is for the above.
not engaging post to give empty reass
By the by chara would have stopped the argument or tried to understand both parties pic as town.
[viewtopic.php?p=9041789#p9041789]weak reason for voting [/url] it just reads as a I'm grasping at straws post.
[viewtopic.php?p=9047852#p9047852]the bigger case [/url] this sealed my scum read on chara.
Some of the points they made are not anything out of the normal to criticize. Especially the first 3.
Basically the case looks padded when in essence the only real issue is dreal coming in and butting in between 2 players, which isn't scimmy.
again weak reasons for a scum read
None of what mini posted is really AI. The meta issue and post flip stuff is pretty meaniless grasp.

And that's the gist of my issues with A.C.
Maybe I'm bias and expect better from chara but I doubt it.

Most of these are issues with almost, why is bad reasoning a scumtell for him?

[Infinity 324]

I disagree with farside's reasons for scumreading chara, but I don't like chara's response. I do remember scum!chara being a bit more obvious than this (in watchdogs) but maybe I'm wrong. I don't remember why I townread the slot so I still have to ISO them and stuff.

[Infinity 324]

It feels off. Like you're trying to appeal to farside instead of throwing up your hands and calling her a VI or OMGUSing her.

[Infinity 324]

I explained it badly, I don't know how to explain it

[Infinity 324]

I really like 1206 and 1235

Really? Why?

[Infinity 324]

you really can't explain why my trying to correct a townread on a bad read, instead of acting in an unhelpful way, looks scummy to you? i understand the notion of unreasonable = town but the absence of someone being unreasonable should

not

lead you to thinking someone is scum.
~Chara

No it's something about the way you're doing it and I can't explain how I think town would be different.

[Infinity 324]

No. It's not a super strong read anyway.

[Infinity 324]

1206 actually indicates a desire to want to continue discussions. It's in response to farside, but isn't overly defensive or snide. That one post isn't likely to make any change in farside's read on them, so there was no need to post it at all.

1235 was a follow up of thoughts from prior posts regarding CS calling the AC/farside posts TvS. Rather than trying to convince Shepard that farside is the scum in that equation, or even just defending themselves, they explain a thought process and try to derive the thought process of Shepard. Again, while not necessarily a town move, I'm not sure I see scum having responded in that way.

This is more depth than shadow was giving before

[Infinity 324]

I skimmed shaddow's ISO and there was more depth than I thought. That plus the tone makes me put him at lean town.

[Infinity 324]

Ok I went over chara's ISO in watchdogs and its (chara is an it) posts here and chara has a more direction with its questions here and a lot more solid reads. Not 100% confident in this but I think AC is town.

[Infinity 324]

Thanks!

[Infinity 324]

If anyone wants to flashwagon prism, I'd definitely be down. My wraith scumread is stale and really not that strong. If not, I'd be willing to vote TM since I have a lot of lean town reads and they are null.

Agreeing with nacho on enough that I'm putting the slot at relatively solid town.

[Infinity 324]

Empking: I definitely think I could come up with the reasoning in 277 if I was scum. Why do you think momo couldn't?

[Infinity 324]

Wraith, what's your read on prism?

[Infinity 324]

I think prism is saying that he can be willing to stick his neck out as scum.

[Infinity 324]

Why is scum!prism more likely to lurk?

[Infinity 324]

Ok, I can see how the last 2 could be scumtells.

[Infinity 324]

Can we quickwagon prism?

[Infinity 324]

From an objective standpoint I shouldn't have made those-as I'm confident you'll scumread them-but you'll have to excuse a bit of selfindulgence.

This continued "nacho will scumread this" posting kind of bothers me

By the way I also don't like how prism is mainly going for "objective tells" instead of trying to get into people's heads, it could be playstyle but I'm expecting a little bit more than "postie lied she's scum!!!"

Nothing else to say except that prism's case on AC is continuing to feel like a stretch, and possibly a scummy one. He seems to be picking on weird stuff that is just not AI.

This stuff also bothered me. Plus gut.

[Infinity 324]

Prism, can you talk more about the T&B read? I've continued to push scumreads that I no longer believed as town in the past to get reactions. Why wouldn't town do this in this scenario?

[Infinity 324]

VOTE: fitz

We have 3 days left and need to consolidate. Fitz is in the small pool of people I don't lean town on.

[Infinity 324]

It's possible that I'm expecting you to try to get into people's heads more given the effort you're putting in when you're here. That's more the problem, not as much objective tells. Your new AC read and your TWC read are definitely not objective, but they're vague and I don't see evidence of you considering the world where they're town vs one where they're scum.

Also:
Early nancy read-- "question that leads nowhere" seems pretty objective to me
Original AC read-- 108 pointed out posts that lead nowhere and an unexplained read change. Again, seems pretty objective.
Original read on me-- You said you liked the miller claim and liked that I was "prodding outside the observation realm". Again, seems pretty objective.

Etcetera. Most of your early game reads seemed to be based on objective tells. I'm not 100% sure this is AI, but I'm 100% sure it's there.

Gonna go into 965 more in my next post but the read progression doesn't affect my view on it at all.

[Infinity 324]

Prism, can you talk more about the T&B read? I've continued to push scumreads that I no longer believed as town in the past to get reactions. Why wouldn't town do this in this scenario?

You've got to be joking if

this

is the read you want more on. I've typed it to death plenty already, and reframing the case yet again in an attempt to get you to understand is both way too much to do on my phone (as was my last post) and just keeps me from reading the rest of the game, 0 new knowledge contributed or acquired. Go ISO if you want it.

Can you please quote where you explained exactly

why

you didn't think town would do that? I looked through your ISO and couldn't find it.

[Infinity 324]

get that a lot of the overly assertive diction choice is purposeful but some pushes too far for my taste.

Why does that make it scummy?

This #6 in particular hits upon what I mean with regards to the tone, reading more accusatory than investigative. Probably a playstyle difference but still a negative factor.

ok...

Imagine typing this sentence as town. I don't see why you ever would, except to artificially bolster your own rhetoric.

Why wouldn't town artificially bolster their own rhetoric?

The dismissive attitude here, along with the condescending advice, again really rubs me the wrong way.

Why wouldn't town be dismissive/condescending?

Part of this was that you said you often made stretchy cases early d1, so I was expecting more than this a little later on.

After all that, I don't think most of what I have on you is super incriminating. Most of it could be playstyle and it's possible I have too high expectations for never having played with you before. However, I have a couple other things that are bothering me a little more. First of all, why do I see the most emotion from you when you're defending yourself? Second of all, why do you spend so much effort proving all my points wrong when even I admitted they may not be AI?

[Infinity 324]

Where are you trying to get into chara's head with the townread on them?

I think I got most of what I needed to out of this, I still need to decide your alignment but at least I have enough to sort through now. So thanks.

[Infinity 324]

@Ari I keep messing up the quotes so my apologies, the quote tag should end not where it currently is but at the second one that's just hanging.

ISOing HF there's incredibly little there and I want more, the townreads are fine for the most part even though I don't get the T&B one.

Working on reading the Think slot+Wraith now.

Quick update about TWC, Gin's condescending tone+interactions with Shephard have been awful for the most part, and Nacho's original posts were the ones I originally scumread.
In particular I actually think he best summed up how I felt when talking about Wraith:

Wraith seems to be looking for something to nitpick for nitpicking's sake

This was mostly how I felt about his page 11 especially in regards to me.

Nacho's stepped his game up x10 since even if I think I've kind of laid the path for him. Gin's townread on Shephard I don't townread Gin for but I agree on and think it works against him if he's scum. I'm fine leaving them to focus on other slots for now.

Can you please quote where you explained exactly why you didn't think town would do that? I looked through your ISO and couldn't find it.

Again an annoyance more than anything else. It is

ridiculous

to be inquisitioned on how, of all things, extensive fabrication of reads/reactions with

no legitimate investigative intention

is not town behavior. Doubly so when you're harping on about me trying so hard to find objectivity.

Prism, the legitimate investigative intention behind continuing to push a scumread that you've dropped is to give reactions. I find pushing people helps me read them a lot easier. Otherwise I wouldn't have gone through this whole thing with you.

[Infinity 324]

I would like you to go more into your read on me but I think it'll end up being an endless wall war. So I'll just ask: what do you think scum!me is trying to accomplish with this push?

[Infinity 324]

Farside, AC have 2 other votes on them. TWC has none.

[Infinity 324]

Farside, AC have 2 other votes on them. TWC has none.

I'm not as confident in my ac scum read.
A few things chara said that had me rethinking them.
I'll do my best to catch up tomorrow.
Today is a bit busy at work.

This is more likely to come from town I think.

The only thing that I like about fitz's catchup is that he agrees with a bunch of my reads, but I'm not really confident in my reads anyway. He was obvtown to me in the last game I saw him in (friends and enemies).

[Infinity 324]

Nice Almost Chara hystrionics. Town should have some level of doubt in anyone they are scumreading. Your blind push on me being scum for little more than my predecessor being an easy target is pathetic. And who is "scum" trying to "save" me?

...

By TWC seems awfully wishy washy on the ThinkMomo suspicions/vote.

Ok...

[Infinity 324]

Infinity, who are your top three scumreads again?

Wraith, prism, and fitz. Though I'm starting to doubt prism.

I should really catch up in order

[Infinity 324]

The scum reads are in a minor part due to POE after removing people I got town vibes from and for the most part are based on their play. Which perusing through my catch up posts will show in many cases where I took issues with comments they were making.

This feels LAMIST

[Infinity 324]

Sometimes I think infinity is bias of players and has certain expectation from them.
While others get away with bloody murder.

This is possible. I've been burned by good scum too much.

[Infinity 324]

Farside's opening I liked more - her tone is what stands out the most as being town from me, she doesn't match the conviction she feels as town as scum (or come anywhere near it), and I really liked her interactions with AC - the initial pushes of "you're a better player than this, town you is X and X and X" is something that felt very generally and is coincidentally something I've seen her push elsewhere as town, and the unexplained backoff of the read strikes me as a move she's very unlikely to make as scum regardless of AC's alignment (simply because it stands out so much) but seems like a perfectly understandable move as town.

So in my head

[Infinity 324]

Except for the convinction part. I've seen her be very aggressive and tunnel-y as scum at least, but not in this way.

[Infinity 324]

Nacho, I think shaddow is showing a lot more depth than he did in OotS. Maybe I'm valuing the meta for one game too much, but what do you think

[Infinity 324]

Fitz had a few points here and there plus gut and PoE for a scumread.

[Infinity 324]

Fitz had a few points here and there plus gut and PoE for a scumread.

Lol I was gonna say:

That's fine. A lot of my scumreads are like that in this game and others. However, how is he able to go from there and pull a full case out of his ass? It makes me think it's faked.

[Infinity 324]

Fitz had a few points here and there plus gut and PoE for a scumread.

Why are you voting me?

PoE, you were obvtown in friends and enemies, plus the above point.