Mini 1918: Paint Mafia Threequel! Game Over!

[Fro99er]

No Bah posts.

Bah

[Fro99er]

Varsoon isn't hard to read
He's one of the few slots I actually have an opinion about flipping today, and its a no from over here, try to flip scum Infinity not someone who'll just get NKed if town

How do you read Varsoon?

[Fro99er]

VOTE: varsoon

I'll take wallposting so soon as a request to be the town leader. But first, he needs to go through the security check.

Actually I dont just disagree imo this is just scummy

Explain how it's scummy. I'm not following.

[Fro99er]

@Varsoon

do you have any color flips in mind yet for today?

pedit: hi

[Fro99er]

Hmm, no. If there's a really scummy looking slot, then we can just lynch it.

The null active people can turn out to be red too. But I'm not going to waste a colourflip on someone we should just lynch anyway.

We should have color flipped davsto in Paint 1. But nobody followed me then I siteflaked. He was scum.

I still think we should try to color flip scum.

that's the extent of the theory talk I'll get into.

[Fro99er]

Of the two I'd color flip twoface at this point. Probably not Ari just based off shitty meta.

[Fro99er]

I'm also not going to vote JJ until I get a read on him. That's going to be an evolving read for a bit. He would know why.

pedit: hi

[Fro99er]

Are you not willing to throw your vote around yet, Frog?

I've been seeing this as a kind of lower-pressure RVS. Am I wrong?

nah not yet

I've only played with five of you, and Varsoon was nearly 2 years ago for one game and Max was my newbie game and a game we were scum together, both before I site flaked. Also, I have no idea how to read Gamma early game I think, and you know I wasn't sure about you D1 in RC's game, so I want to wait on you because you're obviously a big asset to town if town. Only other one is Ari, and I like I said I have a shitty early meta read of him as town.

[Fro99er]

I 100% disagree with ari FWIW

flipping someone because they are "a strong town player" is pointless. It all but eliminates them from the game early.

[Fro99er]

Varsoon isn't hard to read
He's one of the few slots I actually have an opinion about flipping today, and its a no from over here, try to flip scum Infinity not someone who'll just get NKed if town

How do you read Varsoon?

Especially if Varsoon isn't hard to read, as Max claims

(still waiting on Max to answer how to read Varsoon)

[Fro99er]

My primary goal with the color flip D1 is to find scum. I seriously think that's the best way to go. IF we happen to hit blue, we hit blue, but we should be trying to find scum.

[Fro99er]

Who is your main scumread then? And would you rather flip a secondary read and lynch the scumread flat out?

If I had a main scumread, I'd be voting them. I'm still waiting on an answer from Max and trying to sort through a bunch of theory bullshit.

[Fro99er]

clearly everyone has different theories on this. I think if Varsoon is as good as people say he is, it's best to leave him unflipped. Confirming a strong town player does nothing but put a target on that person's back. I can get behind flipping somebody who is acting scummy but my preferred is to use the first day as an investigative aspect since it's the only flip we can fully trust.

so, based off your proposed way to use this, who do you want to flip?

[Fro99er]

VOTE: Twoface

Ari you should sheep this

[Fro99er]

Twoface will you please answer my question?

[Fro99er]

Probably ray or maxwell

What about those two makes you want to flip them?

[Fro99er]

Then why not place your vote on one of them?

[Fro99er]

Why is there no point? You could be the second vote on flipping Raya (with Max, ironically, which should provide you with tons of information to fit your proposed manner of using the color flip).

[Fro99er]

ARRRRIIIIII vote twoface plz

[Fro99er]

Doesn't matter if it's popular or not. Why wouldn't you stick to your conviction of how you think it should be used?

You could start to build a wagon on Raya and see if we get competing flip wagons, etc. You seriously say you want to use it for informational purposes, like an investigation, but then you don't go ahead and do it.

You could wagon Raya with Max, try to convince Ari, or others that it's the best lynch, but your just using a defeatist attitude that "it isn't popular". Since when do you care about what's popular?

[Fro99er]

Because I don't have a strong conviction about color flipping. I only care about finding and lynching scum and we aren't in that phase yet

so you'd have no problem hammering your own color flip, correct?

[Fro99er]

Because I don't have a strong conviction about color flipping. I only care about finding and lynching scum and we aren't in that phase yet

so you'd have no problem hammering your own color flip, correct?

given that you don't have a strong conviction about it and all...

[Fro99er]

Why wouldn't town like that you're confirmed town?

[Fro99er]

Well I have no problem with you being lazy

[Fro99er]

So this is why we just try to find scum with the colour flip. Scummy players arent the same things as players who wont be useful imo

max answer my question

[Fro99er]

Honeslty we should just flip twoface at this point and move on to the next phase. People holding this up are going to get more than the stinkeye from me.

God dammit

[Fro99er]

jj come vote TwoFace

[Fro99er]

Can I hammer?

Splatting people with my vote will be nostalgic

no we're saving the hammer for TwoFace

[Fro99er]

^I agree with that reasoning for sure.

[Fro99er]

@Varsoon: do you love me?

[Fro99er]

I'm a frog, of course I can dance

[Fro99er]

VOTE: Bomberman

what the fuck

[Fro99er]

JJ put your fucking vote back now.

[Fro99er]

I think we should be using today's colour flip on a very null, very active slot, and just outright lynch the scummiest person rather than using the colour flip on them.

yet now you're voting based off scumminess instead of null-ness.

bullshit

you're protecting TwoFace

[Fro99er]

But Frog, this is scummy as all hell?

YOU WANTED TO FUCKING COLOR FLIP NULLNESS YOU SAID SO YOURSELF

[Fro99er]

Although you could be right. I just reread it.

pedit: I follow. Why don't we just color flip TwoFace and if he flips blue then lynch Bomber?

[Fro99er]

Phew.

VOTE: Twoface

There were a few minutes there where I thought I might want to vote you, Frog.

For what?

[Fro99er]

Also I'm totally fine with being color flipped, so that threat rings hollow to me JJ

[Fro99er]

PEdit: Not a threat. I would have wanted you colourflipped because you seemed to me like you were reacting more to me voting Bomberman than to anything else.

Bullshit. I was reacting to you unvoting twoface which seemed like protecting him and voting bomber when you said you didn't care to color flip scum.

[Fro99er]

You just had an interaction with Frog about how he wasn't seeing mu scuminess, who the hell waffles like you just did

BS

where did I ever say I wasn't seeing your scumminess, or where did JJ say I ever said I wasn't seeing your scumminess.

[Fro99er]

But Frog, this is scummy as all hell?

this is not him saying I didn't see it. This is him asking for clarification on if I see it or not.

[Fro99er]

Not how I took it, seemed like a loaded question

hahaha that's because you're forcedly trying to shade him

such bullshit

[Fro99er]

Yeah, was a conceivable possibility though.

I guess. but it was pretty obvious I was more upset about you derailing the TwoFace wagon and your lack of conviction about your voting preference (null vs scum) for this phase.

Eihter way, I townread you. I am worried TwoFace flips town now, given that Bomber is on the TwoFace wagon.

[Fro99er]

What even point was there to vote me if he's just going to fallback and say 'lol i have nothin it's d1 bro'

He never said that

[Fro99er]

@Varsoon, could you do a bomber wagon with me and JJ?

[Fro99er]

And Ari

[Fro99er]

I actually weirdly think we have a townbloc going. I know it's early, but IDGAF. It's what I'm feeling right now.

pedit: what happened was me and JJ sorting each other.

[Fro99er]

Nope, I voted you because your conviction was shitty, your reaction was shittier, and your explanation of the reaction was extremely shitty.

And then your reaction to my vote was exactly what I was looking for to keep my vote on you.

@bomber

this is not him saying "it's d1 bro"

why do you keep pushing that

[Fro99er]

pedit: how is your interpretation of 251 "it's d1 bro"

[Fro99er]

If you're going to give shit to Bomber for playing the "Vote me, I don't mind flipping IC" card without self voting, you can apply the same metric to Twoface when they played similarly.

but twoface said they'd happily self vote

[Fro99er]

Not the post I'm talking about? #266 where he says "we don't have a lot of substantial stuff to go off of"

right, but now he's given other reasons, so why do you keep harping on "it's D1 bro"

[Fro99er]

Bomberman, this is the first phase of the whole game. We don't have a lot of substantial stuff to go off and you acted like me voting you was me accusing you of being the antichrist.

plus this was

AFTER

251, where he gave his reasons

this is about your reaction where you reacted like him voting you was accusing you of being the anarchist.

[Fro99er]

god damn JJ and I are suddenly in lockstep

[Fro99er]

@Mod why didn't you make me green? I'm a frog

[Fro99er]

@Bomberman

I really think you're barking up the wrong tree, at best.

[Fro99er]

And did they?
Are they voting themselves now?

they said they'd happily self-hammer

they went to bed before it got to L-1

[Fro99er]

I feel like TwoFace's "I would happily vote myself" was just rhetoric to appear town.

I did too, hence why I voted him and left my vote there. We shall see when he wakes up I guess.

[Fro99er]

Okay so you don't like my reaction, I understood it the 3rd time you said it

Now give me something in return and actually answer the things I am asking of you instead of creating this false dichotomy where I failed your test therefore you don't owe me shit because that's gonna make me pretty heated

Have you played with JJ before?

[Fro99er]

Well, let's see if they nut up or shut up.
If Twoface doesn't self-hammer, then we can just lynch them D1 anyway.

yea I mean if TwoFace doesn't self-hammer, it's a scumclaim and someone else should hammer the color flip anyway.

[Fro99er]

god damn Cheet is good with paint

[Fro99er]

also definitely changing my sig after the game to what cheet changed it to

[Fro99er]

You talk to me like you scumread me yet you have your vote on TwoFace

Because that's exactly what he's doing.

Why is that bad?

[Fro99er]

Nah, I actually still think I should be voting someone null for the colour flip.

do you think twoface is null?

[Fro99er]

I mean, you'll get to see exactly how much conviction I have if Twoface flips blue.

PEdit: Eh. I've got a lot of better reads rn. He's fairly null. Might be a bit of a scumlean. If I'm gonna place someone I need to talk to them.

JJ this post makes me paranoid about you.

What if TwoFace flips red. Does that mean you have more conviction? I don't think TwoFace's flip should have any bearing on your conviction level. That's being results oriented, not process oriented.

Also, try talking to twoface. It seems like you gave a reason to scumread him when you voted (about why he didn't suspect you for low activity), which again contradicts your whole "vote the null thing"

[Fro99er]

I don't think TwoFace's flip should have any bearing on your conviction level.

What I mean by this is, you either currently have conviction on TwoFac or you don't

his color flip won't change your conviction level, but you are acting as if it should change your conviction level to other people.

[Fro99er]

yes I do

[Fro99er]

but he won't see the evidence of that conviction that he seems to desire so much.

that lack of conviction, you mean?

[Fro99er]

That's my point. He's pointing to your lack of conviction.

[Fro99er]

yah I follow. We good

[Fro99er]

Fro99er you posed a question to me about playing with JJ

How is he playing right now in terms of his meta, you two seem acquainted

He seems to be pretty town here. Forming reads through interactions, trying to solve things, seeing things as I do and his paranoia around me for those brief moments was super genuine, and his reason for it made sense. In fact, his whole interaction with me I've asked some questions intentionally sounding like I distrust him, because I want reassurance he's town, and he's given me everything I want. I also see some genuine frustration when he realized he couldn't hammer TwoFace himself because he realized it's better to have TwoFace self-hammer to see if TwoFace really will.

His push on you doesn't seem faked, I can see the points he made. He's not lock town or anything, but for now he seems town enough and he's easily a huge asset to town if he is town. He and I were the MVPs of RC's game. Me in the first couple days with the way I played my hider role, and him after I died.

I trusted him in that game and was rewarded. It was his first game on site and I had no clear of him, so my trust was purely a townread on him, but he was pretty obviously town to me when everyone else scumread him. Thankfully my trust was rewarded because as I said, he won the game for town after I died.

[Fro99er]

he's given me everything I want

*without knowing those were things I was looking for as well. I asked them in a way that he couldn't know, yet knowing there was an answer or two I'd expect from town logic, and he gave it. So it really reads like he's town to me.

[Fro99er]

I am reading him as someone who makes kneejerk reactions and changes his ideals to see fit whatever push he is making, sometimes in the form of blind aggression

I don't really like this but perhaps you know him better than me

I get that viewpoint too, but I think by and large he's town. I won't put him in any locktown category, but I really do feel good about him for an early game read. He seems to be thinking and his shifting doesn't read like manipulation, but just changing his mind as he thinks about the game more.

I kneejerk react as town all the time, sometimes in the form of blind aggression, so I can sympathize with his changing stances here.

[Fro99er]

Do you want to tell me where you got any of those things?

First up, gimme some kneejerk reactions.
Then show me changing my ideals to fit a narrative.
Then point me to some blind aggression.

I mean, you have done all those things

especially the second, when you voted bomberman for being scum after saying you didn't want to vote scum reads.

[Fro99er]

Nope, I voted you because your conviction was shitty, your reaction was shittier, and your explanation of the reaction was extremely shitty.

And then your reaction to my vote was exactly what I was looking for to keep my vote on you.

disagree

you intended to keep your vote on him until I told you that you were being an idiot for moving off twoface.

You also voted him because his conviction was shitty, not because you were fishing for a reaction.



God dammit. If TwoFace flips blue now I'm not convinced it's bomber. It basically becomes a 1v1 between bomber and JJ in my mind.

[Fro99er]

your reaction to my vote was exactly what I was looking for to keep my vote on you.

how is this NOT intent to keep a vote on him

JJ this is where you're fitting narratives and I don't like it.

[Fro99er]

But in that same post you already stated you got the reaction to analyze, and thus intended to keep the vote there.

[Fro99er]

If you were looking for reactions, and found your reaction, then why did you intend to keep your vote there if you already found the reaction you were looking for?

[Fro99er]

your reaction to my vote was exactly what I was looking for

I mean

it sounds like you got exactly what you were looking for, so if you never intended on keeping your vote there, that's when you should have moved off since you got what you wanted.

Instead you kept your vote there.

[Fro99er]

Instead you kept your vote there.

Until I got pissed off at you. Which could be appeasement of me.

[Fro99er]

That was one post. Also, I didn't have anyone besides Bomberman's.

I can agree with the second part. But you probably should have said that at first.

[Fro99er]

Your reaction was pretty neat too because we placed each other from the ensuing conversation.

actually you did

this again quells my concerns a bit

pedit: yeah i just found it

[Fro99er]

sorry JJ, you understand my paranoia right? I'm just trying to sort through this, because I'm pretty convinced there's scum in {you, bomber, twoface}

I still think TwoFace is the best color flip if only for a reaction to him claiming he'd happily self-hammer. So I expect that when he wakes up. If he flips blue, honestly it probably comes down to sorting you and bomber for me. But my gut tells me it's TwoFace who is scum, and you and bomber are TvT and I'm just sorting through that, but I'm not positive.

[Fro99er]

Also, I still really want Maxwell to answer me about Varsoon

[Fro99er]

If anyone color hammers TwoFace before he has a chance to post, I will take that as a scum claim if TwoFace flips blue

[Fro99er]

I don't want people not giving TwoFace a chance to react to his L-1

[Fro99er]

Where's the association with Twoface exactly?

there isn't. I never said there was. I think TwoFace is scum.

But if he flips blue then obviously it's likely one of you or Bomber given how both of you have had some questionable play here. And you're both on the TwoFace wagon which would be just another minor piece of evidence.

None of that has to do with an association of TwoFace. If he flips blue there is no association between him and either you or bomber. If he flips red, he's scum.

[Fro99er]

No, I mean you being sure there's scum in me, Bomberman and Twoface

lmao give me a fucking chance to answer

[Fro99er]

Where's the association with Twoface exactly?

I don't want people not giving TwoFace a chance to react to his L-1

No, I mean you being sure there's scum in me, Bomberman and Twoface

365 wasn't my answer to your 364. I was following up on my own 363 in 365.

Where's the association with Twoface exactly?

there isn't. I never said there was. I think TwoFace is scum.

But if he flips blue then obviously it's likely one of you or Bomber given how both of you have had some questionable play here. And you're both on the TwoFace wagon which would be just another minor piece of evidence.

None of that has to do with an association of TwoFace. If he flips blue there is no association between him and either you or bomber. If he flips red, he's scum.

This was my answer to your 364

[Fro99er]

But wait, you think we're probably TvT but that changes somehow if Twoface isn't scum? You're losing me.

My gut says you two are TvT and TwoFace is scum.

But if TwoFace flips blue, I'll reconsider you two as TvT because both of you individually have done scummy shit at times. But right now TwoFace is my priority.

[Fro99er]

If you two really are TvT, a lot of your scumminess can be explained away by the fact that it's a TvT. People get tunnel vision and get worked up that they think they've found scum in the other person, so they twist words, or forget their prior statements, or prior reasons for doing things because they get tunnel vision. That's what I'm using to explain away both yours and bomber's scummy things you've each done.

Right now I think TwoFace is most likely scum. But if he flips town, BOTH you and Bomber are voting to color flip him. If he flips blue, that's just an added piece of evidence to each of the things you'd individually done that's scummy. It has nothing to do with twoface himself. But I find it quite unlikely if twoface flips red that you two are bussing him (although it's more likely from you JJ than Bomber, given how you tried to move your vote off him).

[Fro99er]

Hang on just a second. Why would voting blueface be scummy? This isn't a lynch wagon and I refuse to treat it as such.

Are you kidding me? I never said voting TwoFace right now is scummy.

But if he flips Blue, then it's an *added* point against. That's all I ever said. I never said it was the basis for a scumread of you.

Obviously scum want a blue flip, not a red flip with the color flip today.

[Fro99er]

Hang on just a second. Why would voting blueface be scummy? This isn't a lynch wagon and I refuse to treat it as such.

So you think scum are ok with flipping a red?

[Fro99er]

If it's a point against then you would consider it scummy, no?

I just said that. Fucking read.

I said it alone wouldn't be strong enough. But combined with other scummy things it paints a bigger picture.

[Fro99er]

Oh, and btw- we'd be better off with a blue flip if we still lynched scum.

Sure, but that doesn't mean I want to color flip a blue today. Finding a guaranteed scum is better than flipping a blue and hoping we lynch a scum but maybe lynching a blue.

[Fro99er]

JJ I feel like you're flailing here.

[Fro99er]

But if he flips Blue, then it's an *added* point against. That's all I ever said. I never said it was the basis for a scumread of you.

FUCKING READ JJ

[Fro99er]

voting to flip a blue isn't itself inherently scummy

but in the presence of other scummy things someone does, it's an added point against.

It's not that fucking hard to understand.

[Fro99er]

I'm not going to get any further into a bottomless argument with someone I believe is town who is getting far more aggressive than they need to.

if you believe I'm town, why are you pushing on me for these "associatives" and this "voting blue is scummy" stuff?

[Fro99er]

Frog, check your tone the last few posts and cool it.

Fuck no. You don't get to fucking tell me how to post.

[Fro99er]

I know, I was doing it to bug Fro99er

Didn't bug me. Knew you were already voting TwoFace

[Fro99er]

VOTE: TwoFace

Just to bug Ari

[Fro99er]

Ha I triggered Ari I win

[Fro99er]

Now that my primary wincon of triggering Ari has been achieved, let's get back to focusing on my secondary wincon of flipping reds. And to do so, I will sit here and wait for TwoFace (also it would be great if Max answered my question in the mean time)

[Fro99er]

Frog, what would you say if I told you both bomber and jj are town

I'd agree. My instinct tells me they are TvT, as I've said repeatedly.

[Fro99er]

iii.2) Day two and onwards, the Reveal Phase will only last for two IRL days.

I will say, it kinda sucks that a player can just not post in the whole color phase if they want without being hard prodded.

Max not responding to me is really making me angry, and he's probably gonna lurk out the rest of the color flip phase.

[Fro99er]

Hmm....

What do you mean by "and"?

Exactly what he meant. He thought both could be scum.

Read on. He changes his mind after that.

[Fro99er]

Just hammer yourself. It'll go right into day phase

[Fro99er]

VOTE: TwoFace

[Fro99er]

VOTE: Twoface

What's your opinion of Bomber now?

[Fro99er]

Switching vote to Bomber was for reactions,

Oh come on admit it you thought he was scummy.

It wasn't just for reactions.

[Fro99er]

TwoFace red flip looks really bad for JJ.

First he wanted to be the hammer, which looked like him hoping that the TwoFace wagon would stall at L-2 so he didn't have to put TwoFace at L-1.

Then he tried to get a bomber wagon going and almost convinced a few of us to move off TwoFace for it. And now he claims the bomber vote was for reactions, when clearly he was scumreading bomber and said he didn't want to vote scum reads, but then voted his scum read after TwoFace was at L-1

[Fro99er]

I said something was off about him, didn't I?

Please don't get cocky cause you got lucky. Nothing was off about me.

Yes. Plenty was off about you

Goodbye

[Fro99er]

It's also nice to have a solid townbloc of me Varsoon Infinity and bomber. Maybe Ari too!

[Fro99er]

Frog, you're going full conf bias here.

You're full of shit.

I've gone back and forth on you like 5 times. That's far from confbias, Mr buzzword

[Fro99er]

Because I'm reacting to what you're saying here.

You doubled down on the "reaction test" crap when it's clear you voted Bomber because you scumread him.

[Fro99er]

Oh, ok. Everyone is bad and you're good. Got it. Piss off

[Fro99er]

Frog- votes don't have pressure behind them unless you can bullshit meaning onto them.

So now you're backtracking and saying you didn't scumread him?

[Fro99er]

Your vote on Bomber wasn't during RVS. That's a bald faced lie.

[Fro99er]

Post 248 after there's an L-1 wagon isn't RVS

[Fro99er]

Now you're trying to take credit for pushing the game out of RVS. Bullshit

[Fro99er]

Aw I hurt his feelings

[Fro99er]

No we're not

[Fro99er]

I was clearly left alive because I was pushing them and they are both town.

VOTE: Maxwell

[Fro99er]

Either Max or Raya is scum based off TwoFace's flip

[Fro99er]

Just a reminder, TwoFace said he wanted to color flip Max or Raya as sort of a cop check, while Max was voting Raya. And TwoFace refused to actually join Max on that wagon when I pushed him to.

[Fro99er]

You didn't miss anything other than TwoFace being scum, JJ and Bomber having a probably TvT and me being obvtown with Varsoon and Ari.

[Fro99er]

Anything else you need?

[Fro99er]

are you just gonna take my word for all that?

[Fro99er]

why not look over it now while you're here

[Fro99er]

we only have 2 days for this color phase

[Fro99er]

VOTE: gamma

[Fro99er]

VOTE: Max

[Fro99er]

VOTE: aptil

[Fro99er]

sounds like whiney scum who thinks they are caught for the wrong reasons and then shades Gamma for "missing the game" when that's not actually a reason to refute his push.

[Fro99er]

I don't think the colour flip matters that much today . I will go with whatever the town wants today . If you want to put some logic i think at least one of two face's partner was on his wagon . I would be okay with someone on that to be cleared via colour or as frog suggests to have max or raya colour flipped .

VOTE: aptil please pile on

"I would be ok with someone on TwoFace's wagon or Max or Raya"

*Self votes*



if you're town you're playing horribly

[Fro99er]

sounds like whiney scum who thinks they are caught for the wrong reasons and then shades Gamma for "missing the game" when that's not actually a reason to refute his push.

what did he push me on exactly anyways ?

that post where you ask now confirmed town what they think of you. It DID sound like deflecting, and also like you knew he was town and wanted his read on you so you would know what direction to take things.

[Fro99er]

TwoFace [7] - Fro99er, Apricity, Havo, jjh927, Infinity 324, Varsoon, Aristophanes

@Bomber

so who's the scum on the wagon?

pedit: who's saying we have to focus off the wagon?

[Fro99er]

because I was pushing JJ

he'd want me dead

[Fro99er]

Or maybe you left me alive knowing I'd push JJ?????

Odd that you bring it up, like I should be trying to push JJ

[Fro99er]

@Bomber, who was suggesting we look off the wagon?

[Fro99er]

I am not sure why the focus is with people who did not vote TwoFace

Ok well it sounded like you were suggesting people were suggesting to focus off the wagon.

I don't really care where to focus. I just want to find scum.

[Fro99er]

Occam's razor insists that the kill was mostly based on conjecture that usually falls into 'we can't push this player anymore he is town/or a threat'

You could say that if you died, it would make JJ look worse no?

all I hear is blah blah blah

[Fro99er]

like i said it doesn't matter to me today what colour flips , if it helps you people to clear me great . I didn't like gamma's vote on me and then you joined in so i was like let's get this done with and move on .

and you don't care to find scum why?

[Fro99er]

...But Fro99er says they're all town?

I never said the whole wagon is town

[Fro99er]

It was rly weird to me how Fro99er wanted to instigate a townbloc immediately after TwoFace flipping Red and I don't feel too charmed by his recent postings

I'm fucking obvtown dude

[Fro99er]

TwoFace [7] - Fro99er, Apricity, Havo, jjh927, Infinity 324, Varsoon, Aristophanes

@Bomber

so who's the scum on the wagon?

pedit: who's saying we have to focus off the wagon?

...But Fro99er says they're all town?
My wagon analysis makes me not want to believe Frog boy here

this is terrible

VOTE: Gamma

[Fro99er]

I'm saying you think all the people on the tail end of the TF wagon are town (Varsoon, Aristophanes), which is where I wanted to look for mafia.

Varsoon and Ari are obvtown

Ari can't play like this as scum. Varsoon is town. He kept the wagon focused on TwoFace

[Fro99er]

kindergarten level wagon analysis by Gamma is probably scum.

[Fro99er]

You know what , now that i think about it Gamma just planned this thing out, from dead infinity to pointing that post out , the coincidence was that i was just there when he posted . [votegamma][/vote] not just for colour flip i think he's one of the scum here

I actually do buy this

I changed my mind on you now.

[Fro99er]

I liked him earlier in the exchange of JJH but things have changed and what I assumed to be just headstrong play has become trying to direct the gameflow in a obnoxious manner

That's how I fucking play town

I'm obnoxious, I get in TvTs, I push everything.

[Fro99er]

Bomberman pushing me for literally playing my towngame is LOL


pedit: boo fucking hoo. Not warrented obnoxiousness. Wah

[Fro99er]

Idk about Varsoon but I think Ari is town.

Varsoon made sure when I thought about leaving the wagon and starting a Bomber wagon with a few others that we stayed on course and color flipped TwoFace

there is literally NO scum motivation in that.

[Fro99er]

@Varsoon, could you do a bomber wagon with me and JJ?

And Ari

@Varsoon, could you do a bomber wagon with me and JJ?

No.
While Bomber is tonally awkward, that's coming of as NAI to me and I could see their play as either town or scum.
If you're going to give shit to Bomber for playing the "Vote me, I don't mind flipping IC" card without self voting, you can apply the same metric to Twoface when they played similarly.

I simply have more evidence that points towards a TwoFace scum flip AND the wagon there is at L-1 AND it's got far better associative information tied to it given the direction the game has taken so far.

Stay. The. Course.

[Fro99er]

'and im sure the top townread for several people' looks more like a shade attempt than bomb's post imo

MAX ANSWER MY QUESTION

[Fro99er]

now you're about Gamma for not reacting in a way you want to

that's not why I'm pushing gamma, but ok

[Fro99er]

I've been asking you all game. Every time you pop in.

You even said you'd catch up over the night phase.

[Fro99er]

Here you go Max

Spoiler:

Varsoon isn't hard to read
He's one of the few slots I actually have an opinion about flipping today, and its a no from over here, try to flip scum Infinity not someone who'll just get NKed if town

How do you read Varsoon?

Varsoon isn't hard to read
He's one of the few slots I actually have an opinion about flipping today, and its a no from over here, try to flip scum Infinity not someone who'll just get NKed if town

How do you read Varsoon?

Especially if Varsoon isn't hard to read, as Max claims

(still waiting on Max to answer how to read Varsoon)

Who is your main scumread then? And would you rather flip a secondary read and lynch the scumread flat out?

If I had a main scumread, I'd be voting them. I'm still waiting on an answer from Max and trying to sort through a bunch of theory bullshit.

So this is why we just try to find scum with the colour flip. Scummy players arent the same things as players who wont be useful imo

max answer my question

Also, I still really want Maxwell to answer me about Varsoon

Now that my primary wincon of triggering Ari has been achieved, let's get back to focusing on my secondary wincon of flipping reds. And to do so, I will sit here and wait for TwoFace (also it would be great if Max answered my question in the mean time)

iii.2) Day two and onwards, the Reveal Phase will only last for two IRL days.

I will say, it kinda sucks that a player can just not post in the whole color phase if they want without being hard prodded.

Max not responding to me is really making me angry, and he's probably gonna lurk out the rest of the color flip phase.

'and im sure the top townread for several people' looks more like a shade attempt than bomb's post imo

MAX ANSWER MY QUESTION

[Fro99er]

Based on what I read you didn't give much of answer of how he failed the exchange with you, and then you changed your vote to aptil not even two seconds after

But I feel talking to you rn will open up a can of worms

I'm voting gamma because his wagon analysis is shit, and doesn't show any effort to actually sort anyone. Just blindly say "scum has to be on the end of the wagon"

[Fro99er]

I think mafia would hop on late when it was a lost cause

Wrong, because it was a lost cause when TwoFace color flipped red and had already admitted he was scum in the color flip phase.

That means mafia has every incentive to get on as soon as they log on.

[Fro99er]

Yeah I know, i did what I could and it didnt pan out, oh well.

Pedit he was a townlean at the time that i consider a strong player who, if town, shouldnt be conftown that gets nightkilled immediately

Apricity if thats not what you meant, why did you bring up that frogger was a popular townread at all?

That wasn't what I asked.

I asked "HOW do you go about reading varsoon"

you said he was easy to read. Why is he easy to read? How do you read him so easily.

[Fro99er]

ignoring bobmerman now

[Fro99er]

Apricity, thoughts on Gamma?

[Fro99er]

I think mafia would hop on late when it was a lost cause

Wrong, because it was a lost cause when TwoFace color flipped red and had already admitted he was scum in the color flip phase.

That means mafia has every incentive to get on as soon as they log on.

Wait he claimed mafia
UGH I really need to read ASAP

Whether he claimed mafia or not, he flipped red. A red flip on D1 is confscum

So when the votes reset after the red flip, scum should have bussed at any point in time.


Your wagon analysis is horrible

[Fro99er]

TwoFace hammered the color flip, not the lynch

[Fro99er]

You guys are mixing up the wagons. Scum is more likely to be on TwoFace later on the color wagon, but at any point in time on the lynch wagon.

Also apricity you should answer me about gamma

[Fro99er]

Havo talk to me about apricity

[Fro99er]

I go back and forth on Aptil, but if gamma is scum aptil is town

[Fro99er]

yeah I'm with you max

[Fro99er]

I mean, they're both scum

VOTE: Apricity

[Fro99er]

{frog, max, bomber, jj, varsoon, ari, aptil}
{raya, havo}
{apricity, gamma}

is where I'm at

[Fro99er]

I go back and forth on Aptil, but if gamma is scum aptil is town

So a color flip on either would make you feel good about the other?

Win-Win?

it's possible they are both town.

But if one is scum the other is town. They aren't S+S

[Fro99er]

so, IOW, no a blue flip of either gamma or aptil doesn't help

[Fro99er]

I like your townlist except for Ari and jjh.

just gonna have to trust me on it

there's only 2 scum...who do you think the other one is besides apricity?

[Fro99er]

*2 scum left

[Fro99er]

5 is the tail end of the wagon, why wouldnt scum do that?

Pedit ok frogger but ill still be digging there
Im not reading in terms of teams yet, but im looking at Gamma, Raya, and Havo rn. jjh and Ari idk about but im just not confident they're town. Ari is kinda odd in general tho so Im less sure.
Now that im here I can actually sort through these reads.

I'm not asking you to tealk teams

I'm asking you who your 2nd top scumread is after apricity. There's likely only 2 scum left, so if apricity is one, who's the other if you had to name one (independent of your read on apricity). It gives me an idea of where we can start together.

[Fro99er]

Yeah max is definitely town. His thoughts mirror mine re: gamma.

Varsoon I'll take the lead on your wall requests. I'm pretty ingrained in this game.

[Fro99er]

And if you think Apricity is right about Gamma, then you think I'm right as well as I pointed it out already.

do you want a fucking cookie or something?

[Fro99er]

gross

[Fro99er]

666

[Fro99er]

did you guys hear something?

[Fro99er]

UNVOTE:
Again i don't understand this wanting to end this so soon . Two people have hardly even been here .Looks like jj is not an option right now so i would like to .

If the options are Noface and Bomber my vote is on VOTE: Bomberman

Quite honestly i would like someone to unvote on noface's wagon so that we can have raya and maxwell's input before the colour flip.

Although bomber might be right

aptil back in the middle pile

[Fro99er]

Something about Apricity tonally is setting me off 2, and I am wondering why she got mad at me for not townreading fro99er/my tone post-color flip but did not engage after

also nobody should ever scum read this (cough JJ)

[Fro99er]

congrats on the page top

[Fro99er]

My headspace is at jjh/Fro99er having one and this interaction between aptil and jjh telling also, so my vote is likely gonna go on one of those three

you're really bad at mafia

[Fro99er]

TwoFace had heavy interaction with Fro99er over a substantial bit. I am imagining this is where people believe he is town? The bit I glossed over stems from #185-#204 does seem pretty hard to fake, tonally speaking. I don't know Fro99er's meta but suffice to say that perhaps my grievances boil down to playstyle. I think that if Fro99er is still alive near the end of the game I might throw my skepticism again but for now I doubt he is a choice to be lynched/flipped.

oh hey maybe nevermind

you can be good at mafia again

[Fro99er]

I'm still sorting through apricity/aptil/raya/gamma/havo

I haven't caught up on posts since my last post yesterday. Probably won't for a few hours.

[Fro99er]

Everyone else I feel really good about as town, although if there's one I'm wrong on I'm most paranoid about you.

pedit: @jj

[Fro99er]

ok

[Fro99er]

@Mod: Raya hasn't posted this color flip phase. Is there anything we can do about it? No 24 hour prods instead of 48 for color phase or anything?

[Fro99er]

Gamma Emerald [3] - aptil, Havo, Apricity

those 3 voting gamma+Raya just voted gamma = Frog hates the gamma color flip wagon. It's literally 4 of my 5 non-town reads voting my other non-town read.

But I don't mind flipping gamma to see if it turns blue and lynching on the gamma wagon if he does.



Gamma will you self-hammer your color flip?

[Fro99er]

I agree with you on this. The first quote seems too much like they are trying to avoid getting colourflipped which would be strange for town. Other than the risk of getting lynched for being nearly conftown and taking awau the possibility of colourflipping someone red there is no reason for town not to want to flip. Happy with a vote here.

Worst catch up ever

[Fro99er]

I would be up for voting Gamma if nobody else shows up to vote but I'd much rather aptil or Raya rn. Where do you stand on either of these, Frog?

I already told you they are in my bottom 5 and I need to sort through them

do you listen?

[Fro99er]

I will say, if Gamma is scum it's probably with JJ

[Fro99er]

I mean as far as wagons and actually voting go not your reads.

i'd rather form reads if i'm gonna vote one of them, because right now this gamma wagon literally has 4 of my bottom 5 reads, and gamma is the 5th of those bottom 5 reads.

[Fro99er]

@Gamma will you hammer your color flip if I vote you?

[Fro99er]

VOTE: JJ

[Fro99er]

SMFH JJ

[Fro99er]

You're smarter than this

[Fro99er]

I'll explain it post game

[Fro99er]

Well, they left Frog alive.

What does this have to do with me?

I have some thoughts but I'm out drinking in Vegas