Mini 1942 - Switchboard 2 [Game Over]
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Radical Rat They/ThemJack of All TradesThey/Them
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Radical Rat They/ThemJack of All TradesThey/Them
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Okay, I understand your concerns, but hear me out.
The analyst sees EVERYTHING (regarding the switches anyway).
By claiming our priorities now, scum has no opportunity to lie.
That means scummy toggle behavior (i;e switching off a claimed JK) cannot be done anonymously. Scum then has to choose between trying to give them a night advantage, or not being found out immediately.
Of course, this also means that the analyst should not claim until the last possible moment. And that special care should be taken to ensure that the rolecop remains OFF. Forever.-
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Radical Rat They/ThemJack of All TradesThey/Them
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Radical Rat They/ThemJack of All TradesThey/Them
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Priority numbers don't correlate with PRs though.In post 38, Chickadee wrote:I won't deny that. I just don't think our best move is to let them know who the top priority players are. It puts our PR's at risk. By keeping it hidden, it lets appropriate town players (read: vanilla) try and draw the night kills. Knowing the priority numbers, scum can just start picking off people higher than them until they have the upper hand.
If anything, I'd expect more PRs in the low priority for balance purposes, but that's purely speculation.
And while you're right in that scum may try to pick off the high priorities.... We've got a Tracker, Watcher, and JK here. With even a single one of them turned on scum's gonna have problems not being caught if they go that route.
I believe this is a low risk high reward scenario for Town.
Only scum should be scared-
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Radical Rat They/ThemJack of All TradesThey/Them
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That's what our PRs are for. JK protects high priority, except PR claims. Watcher observes high priority targets, especially a PR that the JK won't be protecting. Tracker just does their thing.In post 42, Chickadee wrote:
I never said they correlated. But if scum just picks off people above their highest priority, they can start turning off roles and agin the upper hand.In post 40, Radical Rat wrote:
Priority numbers don't correlate with PRs though.In post 38, Chickadee wrote:I won't deny that. I just don't think our best move is to let them know who the top priority players are. It puts our PR's at risk. By keeping it hidden, it lets appropriate town players (read: vanilla) try and draw the night kills. Knowing the priority numbers, scum can just start picking off people higher than them until they have the upper hand.
If anything, I'd expect more PRs in the low priority for balance purposes, but that's purely speculation.
And while you're right in that scum may try to pick off the high priorities.... We've got a Tracker, Watcher, and JK here. With even a single one of them turned on scum's gonna have problems not being caught if they go that route.
I believe this is a low risk high reward scenario for Town.
Only scum should be scared
Picking off high priorities is not a sustainable tactic for scum.-
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Radical Rat They/ThemJack of All TradesThey/Them
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That's actually a really good point.In post 41, Realeo wrote:@ModWhen a player flips, do we get to know their priority number?
If yes, then we can wait until the first PR claim to withhold it. Only after a PR Claim, Switch Analyst would be useful.
If no however, earlier is better, so scum never gets a chance to be filthy liars about it.-
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Radical Rat They/ThemJack of All TradesThey/Them
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Radical Rat They/ThemJack of All TradesThey/Them
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Radical Rat They/ThemJack of All TradesThey/Them
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The problem with massclaim is that scum also know WHICH PRs to hit.
That means they'll never target the BP or Hider, they can easily kill the JK knowing it couldn't possibly be protected, and they can keep our investigatives switched off.
Then just claiming PR or not PR removes all probability from scum shots and tells us diddly squat because there's no way to CC-
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Radical Rat They/ThemJack of All TradesThey/Them
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Radical Rat They/ThemJack of All TradesThey/Them
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Radical Rat They/ThemJack of All TradesThey/Them
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Radical Rat They/ThemJack of All TradesThey/Them
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Radical Rat They/ThemJack of All TradesThey/Them
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Radical Rat They/ThemJack of All TradesThey/Them
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No. Because you supported a plan that benefitted Scum, and freaked out when I said how Scum could easily screw us over if we did that.In post 162, Aubrey wrote:Because I failed to know scum have day talk? That should be considered Nai. If you townread that, then you're falling for one of the easiest tricks in the books.
The way you phrased it especially made it sound like you already knew it could happen but didn't want anyone else to know.
And then you decide it's a good idea to stop engaging in discussion and just lurk after two posts???? Sorry, but no.
You're a Scummy McScumface-
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Radical Rat They/ThemJack of All TradesThey/Them
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Why can't scum collaborate without daytalk?In post 166, Aubrey wrote:I repeat @Key, I was viewing that thinking scum did not have day talk. With that view, it's kinda stupid to bring that up. Knowing now that they have day talk and can collaborate, not so stupid. There's a big difference between the two.
They know who each other are, and can easily play along with what each other says without ever needing to explicitly talk about it.-
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Radical Rat They/ThemJack of All TradesThey/Them
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Rule 0, don't keep quiet and hope scum won't exploit glaring flaws in Town plansIn post 171, Chickadee wrote:
Thank you.In post 144, Realeo wrote:So I just ran some math and I realized that two mafia CC-ing is actually the optimal move for mafia.
If two mafia CC-ing, we are scumhutin' in 9 people pool (4 confirmed town)
It's not exactly that lucrative so I would back down a little bit from proposing this offer, but I still think it's good.
Thank you for giving scum an idea.
Rule 1, don't help scum. Let them figure out their own best strategy.-
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Radical Rat They/ThemJack of All TradesThey/Them
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Radical Rat They/ThemJack of All TradesThey/Them
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I apologize, I thought you meant one or two posts per game day, not per 24 hours.In post 182, Aubrey wrote:
You've clearly played long enough to know someone posting once or twice a day is considered an active player vs a typical player who will let 24 to 48 hrs pass by easy and often. Don't give me that crap. I'm not going to hard restrict my posting either, but I will try and keep hyper activity in check. I've been glued to this game far to long today.In post 179, Radical Rat wrote:As long as your posts have content, it's not spamming. At least that's how I look at it.
And even then, one or two posts a day? There's not spamming and then there's not playing. That sounds like not playing to me.
I still think artificially limiting yourself does more harm than good and anyone in Mafia Discussion who disagrees is someone that I disagree with, but it's whatever.
I am in favor of natural posting over forcing yourself to post either more or less than you normally feel like, but you do you I guess.-
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Radical Rat They/ThemJack of All TradesThey/Them
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Town can have a bad plan. It happens.In post 185, Mjollnir wrote:Spoiler: @Rat and Keychain Posts 167 & 169
I'm going to preface by admitting that I was also unaware that scum had daytalk until it was brought up here, and when I was reading through the thread I had the exact same initial reaction as Aubrey to Realeo's post explaining the flaws of PR claiming, I'm reading that reaction of his as genuine looking at his posts, which if I am right would also mean he was genuinely unaware scum had daytalk, possible to fake admittedly but I townread Aubrey right now.
@Rat: If you're going to go after Aubrey for supporting a plan that benefitted scum, then why not go after the architect of the plan, Fitz?
@Key: I may be missing something, but I really don't see how that reaction makes sense if scum didn't have daytalk, it's highly unlikely each member of the team would have independently came up with the same mathematical conclusion that Realeo did.
Aubrey's plans however, both his "high, mid, low" and "PR/Not PR" thing, strip away the Town benefit of the claims, while still allowing scum to profit.
Also, Realeo, Raya, and myself all came to that conclusion independently at roughly the same time. Not too much of a stretch to say at least one scum did as well.
Each member of the team doesn't need to. One person makes the fakeclaim, the other two ask themselves "Why would they have done that?" and figure it out from there.-
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Radical Rat They/ThemJack of All TradesThey/Them
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I meant both claims.In post 188, Mjollnir wrote:Oh you meant the "High/Mid/Low" plan; I thought you meant the mass-PRclaim. I agree that wasn't a great idea for those exact reasons, it was somewhat scummier than Fitz's idea.
That second question you answered was for Keychain, why are you answering that for him?
And I didn't mean to answer FOR Keychain, but just. In addition to, I guess. I had an answer so I chimed in, I apologize if that messed up some specific plan of yours.-
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Radical Rat They/ThemJack of All TradesThey/Them
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Fitz wanted a mass roleclaim.
While still a bad plan, it's a bad plan that could reasonably come from Town.
Aubrey wanted to just claim PR/Not PR.
This gives Town very little useful information, but scum a whole lot.
And the reaction after being told how scum uses that plan to kill us all was just bad.
Daytalk or not, it doesn't take mind reading superscum to realize that all three of them claiming VT is suicide in that situation.-
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You're right, you're right. I'll be more careful about that moving forwardIn post 191, Mjollnir wrote: You've played with me before, you should know that-
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I said the same thing when it was first suggested.In post 195, Aubrey wrote:furthermore hard claiming does come with it's draw backs in that instant. The hider might not be targeted at all for one which eliminates a possibility of a nightless kill.
Like I said, it's a bad plan, but it's Town's bad plan.-
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Radical Rat They/ThemJack of All TradesThey/Them
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His post was the first to actually be posted, but we were all writing it at the same time.In post 197, Aubrey wrote:
I also don't recall either of you mentioning the counter claiming before Realeo did....In post 187, Radical Rat wrote:Also, Realeo, Raya, and myself all came to that conclusion independently at roughly the same time. Not too much of a stretch to say at least one scum did as well.-
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Radical Rat They/ThemJack of All TradesThey/Them
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Mjollnir is most likely not.In post 241, mozamis wrote:people's thoughts on fornerfih, molloigner and IAI? they're my scumteam atm
I haven't actually seen his scumgame, but I have seen his towngame and this feels the same.
I'll get back to you on Innocent and Formerfish-
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Radical Rat They/ThemJack of All TradesThey/Them
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Yeah, all three of those are Town.
Though @Formerfish
What do you mean by "figure out what priorities actually mean?"
That's public information, higher priorities get to override lower priorities toggling the same switch.
And I'm not denying that it does benefit scum somewhat. However, as long as we maintain PR anonymity, it benefits us far more.-
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Radical Rat They/ThemJack of All TradesThey/Them
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I advise you to read anyway.In post 249, Nosferatu wrote:it just makes me not want to read since its stuff i dont care about zz
I believe this round of setup spec has proven fruitful beyond merely, well, speccing the setup
Which is a weird thing to talk about in an open game anyway.-
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Radical Rat They/ThemJack of All TradesThey/Them
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It all comes down to motivation.In post 270, Mjollnir wrote:
Why town's bad plan necessarily? I didn't see you giving any specific reason to townread Fitz prior to this post.In post 196, Radical Rat wrote:Like I said, it's a bad plan, but it's Town's bad plan.
Role Massclaim gives scum a Lot of information to screw us with during the night. However, it does put a lot of pressure on scum during the day, and also allows Town to effectively use their toggles. I believe that's what fitz was going for.
Now PR/Not-PR massclaim has much of the same benefit to scum, and very little to Town. It's much easier for scum to lie about their role freely in this situation, and much harder for Town PRs to know who they should target, and for Town as a whole to know who needs toggled the most. It's a weaker plan with more wiggle room and exploitation potential that I don't believe Town would have proposed as an alternative to a hard massclaim.
Ya dig?-
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Radical Rat They/ThemJack of All TradesThey/Them
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I actually didn't catch that bit.In post 276, Aubrey wrote:In post 79, havingfitz wrote: And the claims could just be generic such as "I'm a town PR" to make it a little more difficult for scum to nk specific PRs.
I will now rethink my stance-
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Radical Rat They/ThemJack of All TradesThey/Them
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So why'd ya do it then?In post 311, mozamis wrote:1) why would i do any of that as scum? cant see why i would change my mind like that.Not much had changed in the game to make a 180 on you worthwhile.
2) why is it scummy anyway?
3) and why not just call me scum instead of "interesting progression". THAT's shade.-
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Radical Rat They/ThemJack of All TradesThey/Them
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Yes, I saw that.
My point is, you say it's not worth 180ing, and yet... you 180'd.-
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Radical Rat They/ThemJack of All TradesThey/Them
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I've actually been suspicious of mozami for a long time now.
He feels like a politician is the best way I can think to describe it.
The reads feel unnatural, and I believe that the hard townread on me as of my Very First Post is an attempt to pocket me.
I'd been keeping an eye on him quietly, wanting to watch a bit more and see if I was just being paranoid, but I've gotta say that I don't think I was now.
I feel comfortable doing this now
VOTE: mozamis-
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Radical Rat They/ThemJack of All TradesThey/Them
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Well it's right there! Post 180!In post 318, Chickadee wrote:
This is the last time I mentioned Moza. So please tell me where my 180 wasIn post 180, Chickadee wrote:Moza seems sketch, but can't quite put my finger on anything specific. Null scum there.
Joking aside, I think there's a misunderstanding.
I'm referring to Moza's 180 on you, not the other way around.-
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And what makes it worth 180ing as Town then?In post 322, mozamis wrote:
I said it's not worth 180ing as scum.In post 317, Radical Rat wrote:My point is, you say it's not worth 180ing, and yet... you 180'd.
What about being busy is scummy?-
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Uh huhIn post 337, mozamis wrote: lol ihavent said you are scum.paranoid much?
Main reasoni think you probably are scum-
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I read through their posts, liked their tone, and liked their thought processes.In post 343, Keychain wrote:In post 244, Radical Rat wrote: I'll get back to you on Innocent and Formerfish
Okay where on earth did these townreads come from?In post 245, Radical Rat wrote:Yeah, all three of those are Town.-
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Staaaaaagnation.
Glorified prod dodge I guess, but.
I feel the same right now as I did last post I made.-
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I've been in similar situations, don't worry about us and take care of yourself.In post 454, Formerfish wrote:Hey guys, I've requested replacement. I'm sorry to everyone for this, but I feel like I am having a mental breakdown due to real life issues and trying to keep up and think critically is becoming increasingly difficult.
I don't know if I'll be on site for awhile and this town deserves better than what I can provide right now.
Again, I'm sorry.
Hopefully you can come back when things are better!-
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Follow your heart, Realeo-
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Intent to hammer Allomancer, upon request from at least two (2) folks on the wagon, or at the 24 hour mark.
I don't have much else to say that hasn't been discussed already.
Though I am townreading Flubber-
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@MjollnirIn post 374, Radical Rat wrote:
I read through their posts, liked their tone, and liked their thought processes.In post 343, Keychain wrote:In post 244, Radical Rat wrote: I'll get back to you on Innocent and Formerfish
Okay where on earth did these townreads come from?In post 245, Radical Rat wrote:Yeah, all three of those are Town.-
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Why are you more sympathetic, or conflicted, towards Allo, who's been sitting at L-1, and has posted since then, without bothering to claim or even really acknowledge that he's about to be lynched?
Nos not reading the first several pages because of setup spec wasn't great, but at least they're playing and engaging now, whereas Allo seems to be just going through the motions. And not even half of the motions at that.-
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No, that's not what I said at allIn post 588, Aubrey wrote:Did you just say I haven't regarded Allo? If so, what game are you reading?
Will unvote in a bit. Waiting for a cc possibility.-
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Why not?In post 629, Chickadee wrote:
It's not that I'm not willing. I just kind of accepted that it wasn't going to happen today.In post 620, I Am Innocent wrote:I'm not BP either.
Not thrilled how moz ignored all my posts/questions. The fact that it has been near impossible to get his wagon above 3 votes tells me I'm on the right track. Still happy with my vote. Anyone not willing to vote moz I'd like to hear why.
Who do you think has a greater chance?-
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Because I find you super sketchy and suspicious-like.In post 640, mozamis wrote:its been a main wagon for a while...
i get why IAI and Flubber are still on my wagon ,they could be cum.
But radical, why are you still voting me?
I don't get any sense of sincerity from your posts, and don't like how you seem to just be ignoring several of the posts directed at you.
Spoiler: Also I am very mature-
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Okay then. Question time.In post 643, mozamis wrote:i didnt answer IAI's questions because they seemed "lawyer like" i.e bullshit lol i guess when you think someones scum, you don't want to bother.
I'd rather answer questions from town i.e chick, radical. even Nos, if he can be mature enough to be civil.I Am Innocent wrote:
.In post 543, I Am Innocent wrote:In post 419, mozamis wrote:
i think i'm gonna vote for Formerfish.In post 409, Mjollnir wrote:Mozamis:If you had to vote for someone right now, who would it be, and very importantly why?
1) He's been in my p.o.e pile since early on
2) He's catch up posts had no reads at all as far as i could see. Lot of info, questions, but tno real analysis/reads.
Allomancer is another possibility but he is posting very little, i'm worried that he is lynch bait.
What changed between these posts, from him being lynch bait to having an air of noob scum?In post 473, mozamis wrote:Guy has the air of noob scum to me.
Worse case he isn't going to contribute much as town.
Happy with lynching him today.
VOTE ALLOMANCER-
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Hello, forgive the absence, was visiting home.
In any case, TO BUSINESS
@LUV
You say you think scum could have tried to frame you........ but you weren't announced as the replacement until AFTER the kill.
Why do you think scum knew you'd be the one replacing Raya?-
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Radical Rat They/ThemJack of All TradesThey/Them
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Ah, sorry, I accidentally skipped over the post where you addressed that already.
Still, you checked the thread right? You should have seen that there was no announcement-
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Radical Rat They/ThemJack of All TradesThey/Them
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Realeo, I find it strange that you're ASKING for people to be suspicious of you. It's one thing to feel ignored and want to be engaged, but choosing to go about it by saying "Hey, look at all these scummy things I did!" is......... odd, to say the least.
What's the dealeo there, realeo?-
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Radical Rat They/ThemJack of All TradesThey/Them
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Well I was.In post 842, Realeo wrote:
Do you townread me?In post 827, Radical Rat wrote: What's the dealeo there, realeo?
But surely there's a better way to get attention than asking why no one's scumreading you.
Idk, Nos seems to think that's not weird, but to me it seems like not being scumread when you're Town would just be normal.-
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Radical Rat They/ThemJack of All TradesThey/Them
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That's not why he was lynched.In post 853, Aubrey wrote:In post 850, Flubbernugget wrote:
Are you seriously criticizing someone for being transparent with their thoughtsIn post 824, Aubrey wrote:Just to set the record straight, I raised my eyebrow at Realeo vocally saying "I'ma lurk cause I want to watch this Uzi vs. Aub play out"
It's one of those, "why say this?" moments. You can push your own agendas, and silently watch the debate play out while taking mental notes.Weren't you on the Moz wagon? A person who was voted up for being transparent with their thoughts and reads.
Or at least not why I lynched him.
Transparency is good, but his comments felt artificial and manipulated.
Clearly I was wrong about that, but it wasn't because he was being transparent-
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Radical Rat They/ThemJack of All TradesThey/Them
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I'm sorry, why does my attitude toward Realeo mean I should also be suspicious of Flub?In post 872, Aubrey wrote:
This is just you stating not likingIn post 871, Radical Rat wrote:Clearly I was wrong about that, but it wasn't because he was being transparenthowhe was being transparent. Had he been less transparent, he may have lived past D1. Regardless that is here nor there. Care to explain to me why you are helping to defend Flub against my counter argument when you yourself were questioning Realeo just as I was?-
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Radical Rat They/ThemJack of All TradesThey/Them
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Are you trying to say that because we agreed on one thing, we should agree on everything?
I legitimately don't understand what the issue here is.-
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Radical Rat They/ThemJack of All TradesThey/Them
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Except that my issue with Realeo isn't why you're being pushed.
My issue is the "I've been pretty scummy, why hasn't anyone called me scum?" thing he's doing, but you're getting pushed because you think his post about watching/waiting was unnecessary, which isn't an opinion I share.
P-edit:
Uh... can I pick 3.5?-
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Radical Rat They/ThemJack of All TradesThey/Them
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Essentially, I think Flub's push is legitimate, but I don't necessarily think it makes you scum.
My read on you has been fluctuating quite a bit.-
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Radical Rat They/ThemJack of All TradesThey/Them
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VOTE: Lil Uzi Vert
Where'd you run off to?
I still wanna hear about this scum framing you before they knew you were here thing.-
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Radical Rat They/ThemJack of All TradesThey/Them
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Yes, but you also didn't.In post 900, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:
What's suspicious about IaI?In post 887, Realeo wrote:
IaI? How?In post 797, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:I feel pretty good about IaI, Nos, and Realeo
Work. Another game I'm in has also been a lot more interesting.In post 894, Radical Rat wrote:VOTE: Lil Uzi Vert
Where'd you run off to?
I still wanna hear about this scum framing you before they knew you were here thing.
And I already answered that.
You said you joined in the night, so assumed everyone got notified.
However, checking the thread, as you should have done upon replacing in, would show that your replacement had not been announced.-
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Radical Rat They/ThemJack of All TradesThey/Them
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I first started to be suspicious of Moz pretty much right after the "No, we shouldn't claim priorities." "Maybe we should." "Yep, here's mine!" "Radical Rat confirmed Town!" bit that happened within the span of like five minutes if I recall correctly.In post 907, Mjollnir wrote:Reasons for voting Moz:
He said his reads felt unnatural and politician like. This was quite early on and his vote never wavered since. Also claimed that he was suspicious of Moz for a while before voting for him. Rat, can you say when you first started suspecting him?. Saying that, he did have some justified points about him that came after the initial vote that did back it up. I will also say that I have seen scum!Rat before, and this doesn't feel like it...
However I did notice something curious about his posts, he claimed intent to hammer Allo without having said anything him beforehand, why did you want to hammer him, and why did you mention nothing about him before? I also did not notice you clarify what exactly about Mozamis' reads you found shifty, can you?
It felt to me like an attempt to buddy me early, as I wouldn't expect a turnaround like that so quickly unless he know what he was doing ahead of time, but I didn't want to push it straight away because maybe I was just being paranoid (turns out I was), and if I did determine he was Town later, that mutual townread would have been valuable.
However, as the day went on, and his posts continually felt more manufactured and hollow, I wasn't feeling any better about things. When others started expressing their scumreads, I figured I should probably start listening to my gut if others were seeing it too, so I vocalized my suspicions and joined the wagon.
The Allomancer hammer intent.... I honestly don't have a good answer for. It was a lurking slot, I didn't hate the wagon, and lurker lynches are much better to take care of in the early game than the late game.-
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Radical Rat They/ThemJack of All TradesThey/Them
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I'm not sheeping Aubrey.In post 937, Realeo wrote:The thing is that RadicalRat jump to vote uzi was to sheep you--so I take that as a social cue that you are scumreading him, but if you're not actually scumreading him, then I have to question RR's motive to vote uzi.
I thought "Hey, I never saw LUV's response to my question," went back to check and he hadn't posted at all, so I dropped a motivational vote, and sure enough, he hopped right on.