Mini 1939 - Organization XIII (Game Over)
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X Luxord Goon
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X Luxord Goon
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X Luxord Goon
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You're fine.In post 19, II Xigbar wrote:What's scummy about me wanting to clear up exactly how the claimed investigative immune worked?-
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X Luxord Goon
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X Luxord Goon
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X Luxord Goon
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There's really very little to say about it. At the end of the day it doesn't really make 12 townier or scummier. Although past experience makes a claim like that tend slightly more towards town, to just assume so would be potentially devastating.
I immediately wrote it off as a non-issue. I had assumed 5 Lex to be pushing it just for reactions, and was quite surprised to see that apparently was not the case.-
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X Luxord Goon
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X Luxord Goon
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There's not too much to explain. I'm not coming in with any real scumreads so I'm just poking and prodding at people I consider voteable. Crux of it is really that I just don't agree with your reads. If ever I earnestly push you, I'd explain it.
As for 13 Roxas, the less conviction you actually have in your scumread, the more favorably I see you. I don't actually think there's any real urgency in sorting him nor is there any real reason to scumread him. With the claim, I'm unwilling to consider 13 as a D1 lynch. (Of course, if he doesn't produce results that are unambiguously favorable we look more critically.)-
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X Luxord Goon
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X Luxord Goon
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X Luxord Goon
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X Luxord Goon
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You're right, my ISO has been basically all ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.
I can copy all of my thoughts on everyone here, but my heart really isn't into anything regarding scumhunting yet. Like, I won't be proactive now but I think it can be assumed that I will be eventually? I really don't think there are any motivations to be found by my lack of productivity.
Here's a direct (reformatted from Excel) copy of my notes, with one omission. (Only noting this so if I want to bring it up later, people know.)
2 Xigbar:Reaction to a relatively calm voteswitch by me in RVS. Weird "if you were scum" Q to 12 in P26. Other than this, gut strongly says town mindset-- but based on not much concrete.
4 Vexen:Flavor entrance, very standard, empty ISO, voteable.
5 Lexaeus:Pushes 12 for inv-immune. Probably just in a frivolous/reac-test way. I tend towards townreading. (Okay, nvm. It seemed genuine.) P53 seems pretty town at first glance, feeling strongly as towniest post in the game.
6 Zexion:Lots of content. Pushes 5 for noisemaking which at face value makes no real sense but is a believable push for town to make. Votes 13 for bad reasons. Overall P47 makes me feel just a little bit weird, entertaining possible narrative of scum with strong presence? Unsure how much conviction he actually has (the less the better, honestly). P56 is towny.
12 Larxene:Claiming inv-immune. Not impressive but claim tends towards town.
13 Roxas:Asks to be checked, says will claim if needed. Opens with scumread me and townread 12.-
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X Luxord Goon
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X Luxord Goon
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I don't know what this is in regards to.In post 67, XI Marluxia wrote:Luxord, if you didn't have anything that you wanted to say yet, why didn't you just say you didn't have anything to say?
As for Roxas, here's a full description my thought process.
My P12 RVS is empty and unfounded, that is true. I saw the claim and saw no reason to respond to it.
I don't actually recall what exactly made me switch to Xigbar in 18, but it was likely because I thought it was okay to let Lexaeus stay busy with prodding at Larxene's claim, and vote someone who didn't seem as engaged. Yes, I didn't have any particular reason for voting Xigbar.
I am generally more of a passive player. I don't think this is a bad thing when the game is moving fine on its own. I think it's fine for me to move and act at my own pace in this environment. I suppose you disagree, and that's why you think I'm "just scum."
There was something that made me mild-to-moderate townread Xigbar, so I decided to switch off to someone I didn't townread. So in that sense, yes-- Zexion is my strongest scumread. But you can't reasonably expect me to defend it with the same conviction as a read that has been built over the span of many days in a longer game. Most of my reasonings and thoughts have already been articulated.-
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X Luxord Goon
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X Luxord Goon
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X Luxord Goon
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Hey, so I did a quick catchup. After is sleep, then I read the big posts in full tomorrow and note them, and I'll make real posts as soon as I wake up. A few small thoughts before I'm gone for the night, just to ground me tomorrow.
First, I think I'm very hesitant to write off Roxas vs. Xigbar as town vs. town. Haven't really thought about most of the posts in full. One thing to say, although I don't really have full context for Roxas's post: I strongly believe taking the crowd consensus as a starting point is not as scummy as people think it is. The short version of my reasons is that towns very often implode D1 among themselves, with scum being content to take more a backseat.
Second, I haven't read Saix's more recent posts in full. That being said, based on the context surrounding the game, I think Axel's OMGUS is definitely not scummy, and maybe even a tiny bit towny.
Anyway. Bye.-
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X Luxord Goon
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So, here's some stuff.
Game overview: I'm finding people to be overwhelmingly in favor of town this game, and just wondering if I just start pushing lurkers or nullreads at this point to get something more from the push. I don't know. It's a long post so I've bolded the main subject of each thought, hopefully that makes it more digestible.
Condensed reads (> means townier)
Town - Lexaeus/Xigbar > Saix/Zexion/Larxene > Roxas
A few instances of things I think could be town, but overall willing to vote - Axel > Vexen
I have very little thoughts on the rest of the players, although I would be least willing to vote Marluxia, who I do agree seems town on a tone read, and obviously Xemnas.
Lexaeus sharing a townread on Vexenis obviously an insignificant thing to be reading, but it seems to me like such an inherently difficult stance to defend because of the inconsistency he admits to that I find it hard not to see as town. Basically in addition to earlier posts I'm working with a pretty comfortable sense he's town more than anyone else in the game.
105, in context, seems like a bit of a set-up for Xigbar, as scum to be making onto a Roxas push. Other posts from him I had a town impression, but I think the Larxene push doesn't make much sense either. Actually looking at Xigbar's series of posts at the top of page 6 makes mejust think Xigbar is town.
Saix's readslist: justifications for his reads are categorically bad. "Town is logical"/"scum is illogical" dichotomy just doesn't work. I'm hesitant to vote him, because the readlist just seems town. And I guess the conclusions of the list aren't necessarily that bad. (And I see now that both of these things have been echoed by Larxene.)
Saix: The reason the magnitude ofmy Axel readis small is because there isn't too much to say about it. There's no real justification. My thoughts on the matter are simply from experience and from what scum often tends to do when pushed early on in the game. And I just think an OMGUS comes from town in the early game more often. That's the only reason I have, and there's nothing else about Axel that tells me town.
I'm feeling super unsure aboutRoxasin general, I've had him sort of statically as feeling town throughout the game but unsure if I have to reevaluate that. I'm sort of not really holding that read anymore in my gut but I don't think that is actually coming from anything specific, and it might be an unintentional side-effect of leaning towards Xigbar being townier. Maybe I'm a fool but I really can't shake the claim as being town, or at least something we need to delay a lynch on. Although Xigbar apparently thinks it's scummy, considering a meta-tell?
ReadingZexion's listI find myself disagreeing with very little. Going back on everyone's reasons to scumread Roxas once more and evaluating them again is something on my to-do list.One question I have for Zexion: do you think Roxas's claim is not a talking point for reads/lynchability? I don't recall you mentioning it at all.
Earlier, I did think thatAxel's TvT dismissalwas weird but nothing to write home about. I'm really thinking that it can go both ways, after reading Zexion's thoughts about Axel. So don't necessarily disagree there. Based on Axel's previous posts, it does sort of seem like Axel could just be expressing genuine townreads on Xigbar and Roxas though.
I'm gonna go ahead and
UNVOTE:-
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X Luxord Goon
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Sure, I'll just make a read up and start tunneling it so that people will stop telling me to do stuff, I guess.In post 168, XII Larxene wrote:Find a scumread so I can reliably townread you!-
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X Luxord
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X Luxord Goon
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X Luxord Goon
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Strongly disliking this reaction feels like upset scum caught for the wrong reasons.In post 346, III Xaldin wrote:Gotta love people just following xigbars no case on me and voting there, only for him to come and say that he is bsing reads, you know like I suspected he was doing when I called him out on his reads being fake.
Vote:Xigibar
Can we lynch traitors now.
This whole thing reeks of people now finally questioning him about his nothing stuff and he is trying to twist it into some I faked reads for weird reactions test for pocketing based on meta I thought I had.
Yea ok-
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X Luxord Goon
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In post 130, V Lexaeus wrote:VOTE: Xigbar
Simply put, I don't think enough people have posted enough significant content for you to know half the game's identities. I know I'm probably pretty obvious, and I think I'd know Roxas if I'd played with them a few times.
However, the scumteam
The first few pages are quite... puzzling and now we seem to get into this little bit about knowing alts and that only scum can guess this it feels like a huge reach to me. Xig to me screams ego town that is going to get mislynched at this point I'm still catching up but I'm shaking my head at half this threadIn post 134, V Lexaeus wrote:Pretty much, yeah.
Without actually revealing the mains, who do you think you know?-
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X Luxord Goon
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X Luxord
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Whoops kid took up more of my time then I thoughtIn post 374, VII Saix wrote:Luxord, you are voting me coz I "..come off with this air of confidence but there's always this self doubt"... but how can I ever be sure? It's D1 and anyway I am not an investigative role. So, my confidence levels will never be 100% in this game regarding a slot.
To everyone, if you are town, I expect you to provide reasons along with the read so that I can better defend myself. If you are not gonna do that, that's deliberately vague coz it gives me no space to defend myself.
Do alts and or finding out who we are really matter THAT much or change your read? I wouldn't be shocked if some people change there play because of this alt.In post 380, XIII Roxas wrote:
I'm not asking you to be 100% sure in your reads but that's what it comes off as like there's barely anything to budge so it feels like a false air. I...am going to level with you.In post 359, VI Zexion wrote:If you can possibly go over your Demyx read for me that would be pretty helpful; not really sure whether their entrance pinged you because it was an imitation or for some other reason or why your suspicion there started to ease.
You have altslipped so I now know who you are.
However this is quite perplexing because I thoughtDemyxwas you. (Demyx's flavor knowledge and entrance felt like something which fit for you, so them being you was my best guess.) They aren't who I thought they are and yet I'm still positive I know them all the same. And I can't figure it out on any level. I'm left with less answers than I had before and more questions I can't quite articulate. Ishouldknow them. (That much I am certain of.) Not only who they are but what their alignment is. But frustratingly, I can tell you neither.-
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X Luxord Goon
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EBWOP:
I'm not asking you to be 100% sure in your reads but that's what it comes off as like there's barely anything to budge so it feels like a false air. I...am going to level with you.In post 374, VII Saix wrote:Luxord, you are voting me coz I "..come off with this air of confidence but there's always this self doubt"... but how can I ever be sure? It's D1 and anyway I am not an investigative role. So, my confidence levels will never be 100% in this game regarding a slot.
To everyone, if you are town, I expect you to provide reasons along with the read so that I can better defend myself. If you are not gonna do that, that's deliberately vague coz it gives me no space to defend myself.-
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X Luxord Goon
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I really think you're wrong here Xigbar's play isn't something mafia does because it just rubs everyone the wrong way and they're super cocky I feel like you're town but just step away from your tunnel.In post 526, VI Zexion wrote:Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
This changes things.
Okay so like, vote Xaldin already, Xigbar is also 100% scum and I'm tunneling that slot until the end of time, nothing but mod confirmation will change my mind, everything about his play here is scum, I'm lockvoting him tomorrow 100% of the time and nothing is going to change that so can we get a move on please and lynch his bud already, nothing else is happening this dayphase.
Disliking the wagon that came out of thin air also feels like we were on scum that got derailed-
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X Luxord Goon
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This post is awful why is this remotely vote worthyIn post 610, IV Vexen wrote:
VOTE: RoxasIn post 583, XIII Roxas wrote:
I don't understand why Xaldin isn't dead?In post 573, XI Marluxia wrote:Roxas's gambit amused me, but a real hammer would be much much better.
I'm not gambiting, I'm not joking.
I have a double-vote so Xaldin SHOULD be dead right now?
Explain or die.-
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X Luxord Goon
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X Luxord
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X Luxord Goon
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X Luxord Goon
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X Luxord Goon
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X Luxord
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Oh no I just mean that I'm typically someone who's very easy to read in general, especially as town. Once I'm invested I'll be oozing so much protown goodness. Aren't you excited?
Okay well, from that sequence of events I don't really understand why you would think there's more likely scum in a pile of the three of us than not? Unless you feel our behavior has also been skeevy, in which case you could probably back that up with examples instead of generic "oh well this pile is sketcharoo" points.-
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X Luxord Goon
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X Luxord Goon
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X Luxord Goon
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Because spamming a game pointlessly is dumb? If you're having a 1-to-1 conversation with someone that's one thing, but you could probably really easily have just taken 10 minutes to put all of your thoughts together into one easy to digest post instead of filling up half an entire page?
P-Edit:
I mean, it'll be useful when I can read up on players?Heartless wrote:Xaldin [1] - Luxord
Axel [3] - Saïx, Larxene, Zexion
Xigbar [1] - Xaldin
Luxord [2] - Roxas
Larxene [7] - Xigbar, Lexaeus, Axel, Xemnas, Vexen, Marluxia, Demyx
Are you expecting something more than that?
Oh yeah that Lux post is pretty scu- wait a second! Oh god! No! I've been tricked!(I don't really know what you would expect me to say about a post of my predecessor explaining a read lol)
Xigbar post looks like it could be parseable with more time to sit with his slot and getting a feel for the game, but as of right now it doesn't really make me feel anything.
P-Edit: Holy shit please stop spamming?-
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X Luxord Goon
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Very subtle.In post 1190, IV Vexen wrote:In the interest of not accidentally breaking rules, I'm going to be vague in a way that virtually guarantees anyone familiar with person understands me. There used to be 2 of him, and now she's embraced her true gender. If that doesn't work, she tends to mod hilariously unbalanced games.
Give me like three days. I'll probably have a scumread by then. Usually once I start pushing one that people start fighting over who townreads me moreIV Vexen wrote:Prove it. Be town.-
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X Luxord Goon
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X Luxord
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X Luxord Goon
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Zex/Lex for scum?
These are some awkward interactions:In post 46, V Lexaeus wrote:Really now?
Tell me what scum motivation there is for letting the investigatives do their job. Tell me how being skeptical of an objectively anti-Town role is scum motivated.
Go on, Zexion. Tell me.
Do I get a medal if I found two scum in two pages?In post 47, VI Zexion wrote:It's not the stance without context that I find scummy, it's how you went about reaching those stances and how you're arguing them. Trying to justify your positions from an abstract standpoint is irrelevant to your content in this game.
You immediately jumped on the invest-immune claim as if it were a scumclaim when there is nothing at this point to indicate that being the case, yes? No attempts to sort the claim, no attempts sort Larxene by play, no reasonable direction to your push. (Then drop it immediately when Larxene reminds you that nu is a thing that exists.) I think that's scummy.
Immediately following this you accept Roxas's claim at face value, no sign of paranoia, and declare that he shouldn't be lynched today. Again, no attempt to sort Roxas by play. You've essentially surrendered all right to sort him until day two. There is no reasonable way you can take this stance as town. Any of us (except Larxene) could presumably be investigated. Should we lynch no one because there's an investigative that could prove their innocence?
Your treatment of the two claims is meaningfully different. What I see from you right now is kicking up dust, making wild assumptions and taking stances that have no clear benefit to town. If you are town you need to start thinking through what you're doing quite a bit more than what you are. You aren't helping people sort you this way and you don't seem to be sorting other slots either.-
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X Luxord Goon
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Yeah if Roxas is "the person" Vex was referring to, then yeah, I'm picking up what you're putting down.
In post 130, V Lexaeus wrote:VOTE: Xigbar
Simply put, I don't think enough people have posted enough significant content for you to know half the game's identities. I know I'm probably pretty obvious, and I think I'd know Roxas if I'd played with them a few times.
However, the scumteamOkay Zex I have context for this now, and it's pretty fucking awful.
Xig seems kind of town from page 6.Xaldin wrote:Prefer Xigbar though, what your thought on him right now?
Would need a case or would need to see something during my catchup to change my mind.
P-Edit: It's moreso that the first is really awkward and the second is ridiculously wordy.
They both seem super uncomfortable.
It's pretty much as bad on page 3.-
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It's the goatee, isn't it?In post 1225, IX Demyx wrote:attractive
Seriously though, I'm just at my best when either arguing to get my head into the game or when I'm being reinforced by people getting behind what I'm doing.
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