Mini 1975: A Village in the Woods (Game Over!)

[Hopkirk]

Who violated rule 11 with me?
I scumread the mod based on tone right now.

VOTE: Pmysterious

[Hopkirk]

Who violated rule 11 with me?
I scumread the mod based on tone right now.

VOTE: Pmysterious

think that was me OH NO EXECUTE ORDER 66

This gives me a townlean.
I'm assuming Bins was joking.
It was a good joke though.

[Hopkirk]

Who violated rule 11 with me?
I scumread the mod based on tone right now.

VOTE: Pmysterious

think that was me OH NO EXECUTE ORDER 66

This gives me a townlean.
I'm assuming Bins was joking.
It was a good joke though.

hi
Can you explain the townlean pliz in a tiny bit more details

Assumption: Someone aware of rule 11 wouldn't send in a historian to try and metagame.
Reason for read: Mafia are slightly more likely to be aware of rule 11 than town since they have chat with other scum. Admitting it is kind of good too.
Consequence: Slight town lean.

[Hopkirk]

@Hopkirk i was also brain storming myself about how being aware of the rule could be alignement telling

What was your thought process then if it differed?

[Hopkirk]

That seems like a nautral thought process too.

[Hopkirk]

Mafia are slightly more likely to be aware of rule 11 than town since they have chat with other scum..

how do you know scum have been able to chat with each other yet?

FoS!

As far as I'm aware, scum always have pregame chat. That's where it would have come from.

hmmm, I think thinking looking at the rules one way or another is not AI at all and found joey's spiel about it a bit contrived (pulled out of his bummm!)

think it is silly to contemplate at all, and more than anything just indicates that people need to READ THE RULES more ( :

I don't townread Joey for misreading the rules, I townread him because I can follow the thought process. It looks legitimate.
Raya also agreed with the thought process, so unless you're calling us all scum (or at least two of us, including Raya), you have to admit it's a thought process that town could have. Therefore, I feel that lends support to it being legitimate since it's harder to make something that's coming out of the ass match someone else's thought processes.

[Hopkirk]

For me, links are almost the same blue as the rest of my screen. I don't know if it's the most common background or not.

@Moonbird: Day-chat is irrelevant since I was clearly talking about pre-game coms- since role conifmations happen before daystart. If you go through all of my scumgames you'll see there's never been a case where scum didn't get pregame chat. I'm fairly sure it's been in place for all of my towngames too. How frequent is it that scum don't have pre-game chat? It sounds like you're scumreading me because I assume there's a mechanic that's been in every game I've ever read. Extrapolating from what I've played (0/50ish lacking pregame chat), 0%-2% of games likely don't have that chat. Explain please.

VOTE: Moonbird

[Hopkirk]

'Scum!Hopkirk slips'
If it has a close to 0% chance of ever occuring then it's strange to spend a paragraph on it.

[Hopkirk]

I feel like I should actually read those rules.

[Hopkirk]

I’m fairly sure scum have day chat only if night starts on an odd numbered day unless they lynch a doctor between 4.30 and 4.53.

@Moon: can you clarify what you mean by how reactive?
@Mutant: what reads have you got so far then, over a third of the way in?

[Hopkirk]

@Mutant: I was curious about the Bins read as of 72 (excluded posts after you said that).
@Ghostly: You like ABR’s posting style, or what he’s posted? If the second, why?
@Moonbird: I’d say I treat scumreads on me as a very minor scumtell. More so if poorly justified.
@Bins: Why didn’t you vote Raya? It sounds like you wanted to, and they’re on two votes.

UNVOTE: Moonbird

[Hopkirk]

@Joey: You asked me a question in 63. I answered in 64. Is that what you're talking about?

[Hopkirk]

VOTE: PMysterious

[Hopkirk]

AI is 'alignment indicative' (whether it represents alignment or not) by the way.

I don't feel acknowledging shit posting is AI.

[Hopkirk]

PM has Three posts.
First is RVS.
Second is about Rule 11 when people are talking about it.
Third is about Rule 11 when it has been discussed, and without comments on anything else.
Don't like the lack of contribution in the third given the second.

[Hopkirk]

PM has Three posts.
First is RVS.
Second is about Rule 11 when people are talking about it.
Third is about Rule 11 when it has been discussed, and without comments on anything else.
Don't like the lack of contribution in the third given the second.

shit sorry missed this as well

What do you think of it?

[Hopkirk]

Hop, need you on Raya

I don't really get why their posts are hollow.

Raya attacking me versus the people actually on her wagon seems like a scum thing to do, as well.

VOTE: Raya

I don't know how large this wagon is but my vote is probably more useful here.

Didn't really like this. @Bins: What other reasons do you have for the scumread if any?

Gonna wait till the vote count so we don't hammer derp before I vote Raya. While I'm not upset with the prospect of that lynch, I'd like an idea for future days.

Plus:

V/LA For Ghost head from 12/24 to 12/27 (28-ish), someone's visiting me for Christmas! Will try to post.

Why are you happy with the lynch?
This sounds somwhat forced, mainly the second half.

why do you town read Raya?

Not asked to me, but anyway- I read her as neutral, but don't like the wagon construction.

[Hopkirk]

I meant the part about preparing for tomorrow looks a little forced.

Did you?

Yes. Our PM even includes joy. I could vomit.

My quick sort (subject to change):

Town: moon, ABR, Bins

Scum: raya, ibuki

Would like to sort: everyone else

-Ghost

Are you saying Raya's list is too similar to yours, or that Raya doesn't takes controversial stances while you do?

[Hopkirk]

Also 'they've posted four times without much content' sounds like someone you want to push to talk, not someone you want to hammer.

[Hopkirk]

Also sounds like ABR and Bins, both of whom you townread.

[Hopkirk]

Are you saying Raya's list is too similar to yours, or that Raya doesn't takes controversial stances while you do?

I'm saying it looks a lot like mine. I'm saying that I feel that her reads seem very mean (the academic mean, not the emotion) Town without providing a lot of content to the discussion.

Mutant's list gave me a different kind of pause because of no declared strong reads but Mutant's added stuff to the conversation.

Raya reads like "I'm coasting, better do something". It's not good.

-- Ghost

There isn't a single name Raya puts into the same section you did. Can you elaborate on how it looks a lot like yours?

[Hopkirk]

Ghostly Penguin townreading pretty much the entire Raya wagon strikes me as... uh, odd. Right?

Not sure.

In light of this, do you dislike anything about the wagon construction?

VOTE: PMysterious

I heard if you howl loud enough, it'll cause an avalanche of votes.

I forgot that ABR is what I'll call a 'terse' player; that'll make him hard to read. I do like his posting, however, so that's a thing.

PM: Since I don't see mod lightning bolts coming from the sky, I can presume that Rule 11 is something that the mod can amuse themselves with with the number of players who confirm incorrectly.

The better question is: do you find Rule 11 breakers/adherents AI in any way?

-Ghost

I don't really know what AI means. If I did, I would be able to answer the question directly, but if you were to ask me, Rule 11 is a pointless rule if there is no punishment. There's nothing to be gained from people breaking Rule 11, or even following Rule 11, other than they were either excited to play or didn't actually check the thread and just their Role PM.

PM's response here is repetitively straightforward, and sure, assume they don't know what AI means and that's not bullshitting, since a player playing that dumb or being that out of the loop is a stupid reason for a read.

PM has Three posts.
First is RVS.
Second is about Rule 11 when people are talking about it.
Third is about Rule 11 when it has been discussed, and without comments on anything else.
Don't like the lack of contribution in the third given the second.

But doesn't it show a progression on what he's thinking about in regards to rule 11? He isn't really contributing, but is it necessarily scummy?

Necessarily scummy? No.
Needs more attention? Yes.

Doesn't read as a natural progression in the context of what else is happening, but that could just be because its a slow game.

Hop, need you on Raya

I don't really get why their posts are hollow.

Townlean on Kirk and Joey. I was considering this as well but I ended up dismissing it since it wasn't a strong tell either way. I came to a similar conclusion to Joey. Vanilla townies would probably be less inclined to read the rules thoroughly than power roles and scum but it kind of just landed us in a position where we would be seperating power roles with scum from vanilla (using just that logic of course) which wouldn't do us much good. Plus like Joey said, there are other factors that can affect this too.

Pedit: good catch Dreal. Slightly lowering my townlean on kirk.

Pedit2:

You have the first content post in their ISO; enters with a townlean on Kirk and Joey. Shows independent thought in identifying with Joey's side of it rather than Kirk's, but it also strays into the sheep zone as you near the end of that first paragraph. That in of itself isn't scummy; it's moreso that they have that little p-edit there lowering their townlean on kirk for the mafia chat "slip" but not really re-weighing the post in light of that information. It influences their read, but not to the degree where they're really willing to re-evaluate, and thus the Kirk read feels artificial.

Didn't really like the comment about the slip since I assume Raya knows scum (almost?) always have pregame chat, but why would you expect it to cause re-evaluation? Are you saying the expected town response after making this post would be to reread? I'm not sure that's strong when there's lke 3 pages.

[Hopkirk]

Seems similar to my current reads with Ibuki as a notable exception. What looks town from him?

[Hopkirk]

VOTE: Bins

Not really happy with Pmys, but switching for now.

[Hopkirk]

Just to clarify my stance on this now, I wasn't thinking that scum almost always have a pregame chat when I posted this since I've been playing a bit on another site lately and it's different there, but now I'm not counting this towards my read on him.

again, this is so vague

I don't see it. Can you elaborate?

I feel like hes against the grain in his posts, is always relevant and concise. Hes been pointing fingers at incoherences and decrepancies while not shading people for it which seems likea genuine effort to scumhunt and try to find whats actually scummy and isnt. His vote on moon is also pretty bad, has been done in rvs too but he disnt remove it. I dont thinks its really that much of a scum play to not unvote on someone that seems townread by most. I can expand on the vote logic if you really want

Don't you think the second bit (bad vote that hasn't been updated based on his alleged thought changes) mitigates the first bit (legitimate scumhunting).
In the sense of a toothless push/commenting rather than scumhunting?

[Hopkirk]

'That being said "his alleged thought changes" did he ?'
Is this a question? I was trying to summarise your words.

I'd say Bins is slightly scummier than Pmys right now for me, but they're at a similar level.

[Hopkirk]

In light of this, do you dislike anything about the wagon construction?

Not really. It's just I've never thought to townread the people who are scumreading who I scumread. It just seems like making reads out of what's convenient and suits you well.

I'm not saying that, I'm saying if someone you scumread scumreads someone do you reread the second person?
So it didn't make you look back at the wagon, or if it did but it didn't change your thoughts on it?

pushing bins primarily implies to me we should be focusing on her and i dont see a reason to

VOTE: buns

Bins’ wagon so healthy is might go anorexic

Have you even stated a reason for scumreading me?

still this is ew


VOTE: Hopkirk


come on friends

Why did you quote Joey then vote me? I don't think you've referenced me before (except the previous page throwaway). Thoughts on me without chainsaw?

[Hopkirk]

I won't be around until late thursday. Not going V/LA since it should be less than 48 hours.

[Hopkirk]

that doesn't really mean anything significant unfortunately
i could say i scumread all of those people before everyone else did but that also wouldn't mean anything

Why did you quote Joey then vote me? I don't think you've referenced me before (except the previous page throwaway). Thoughts on me without chainsaw?

do you mean chainsaw or omgus
are you implying im chainsawing bins lol
she's really poe'able, you're joking if that's like your super duper serious scumread

both her and raya are easy mislynches at this point
and up until like her last two posts it's been understood that she hasn't even been playing seriously yet? or so ithought


nothings really happened in the sense that people havent really pushed for or against things in a really driven way otherwise we would have seen anything happen so im not sure how to proceed
some of the active people are really just presenting noise

Meant both really since you opposed the Bins votes in the same post and didn't explain either reads on my or her.
I'd treat you as an 'inactive' in terms of content I can form reads on (excluding what I've pointed out), so the second part here seems slightly odd.

[Hopkirk]

VOTE: kirk

hunger for flip

We're not in any rush for a flip right now. It's almost as if you're forcing a wagon on a player without any real justification. Granted, this isn't the hammer, but this is a little suspicious. (For the record, we still have about 5 days to lynch, even if this game is a little slow right now).

I get the wagon, I just don't really like that the only real motive here is for a flip.

Can you explain why you get the wagon?

VOTE: kirk

hunger for flip

We're not in any rush for a flip right now. It's almost as if you're forcing a wagon on a player without any real justification. Granted, this isn't the hammer, but this is a little suspicious. (For the record, we still have about 5 days to lynch, even if this game is a little slow right now).

I get the wagon, I just don't really like that the only real motive here is for a flip.

Thread is moving slow and I want something, and iroll onto the bins wagon was bad.

Just pursuing bad votes will one day give me a scum lynch i swear

What's 'iroll' stand for/mean?
I don't normally acknowledge naked votes, but I've got to say it's a pretty bold strategy to try push me when I'm (effectively) V/LA.

[Hopkirk]

Oh yeah.

VOTE: PMysterious

[Hopkirk]

Town: Moz. Hopkirk

Pos. Town: mutant, Moonbird

Null: Cyfly, Rampage,Bins, Drealz, Ghostly

Pos scum: PM, Ibuki, joey, Raya

What is it with people making spineless lists this game. How are we to trust you are scum hunting when you don't actually call anyone scum? - Ghost.

How is it worse than your list? (or was that your other head and you're making a joke?)

not feeling ibuki unless they’ve heavily pocketed me

What's pocketing again?

How are we to trust you are scum hunting when you don't actually call anyone scum? - Ghost.

if people like you had actually DONE ANYTHING this game,maybe it would be easier for those of us actually playing the game to sort people.

^ dingding

tired of this shit
VOTE: drealz

I was expecting a Ghost vote here. Why not?

[Hopkirk]

@Ibuki: Can you expand on ‘hopkirk posts a lot of stuff but most of it isnt really stuff tbh’,
‘i'm not sure what the latter is trying to get across honestly besides shading me
like if you're not going to explain the sort of behavior you get reads from or maybe what i have or haven't been doing toward that end..’
Activity in general and taking stances. Weren’t active while complaining about inactives.

@Ghost: can you point me to who you think looks proactive/not proactive other than Raya?

[Hopkirk]

@Ghostly on Raya

I'm leaning slight town on Raya on meta too. This is the only game I've played with them: viewtopic.php?f=84&t=73629&user_select[]=29941
Raya has a lot more day one today than she did there (town), though the game was less active in general. She's only got nine posts there, so it'd be quick to compare, but based on my experience there I don't share your meta read at all.

[Hopkirk]

Hi kirk, can you give me the backbone of your buns's read cause im going to iso dive her since its close to lynch time

@Joey: Bin’s early game stuff seemed ‘hollow’ to use what she was accusing Raya of later. Jumped on the wagon without much analysis, seemed a bit hypocritical. Don’t see reads progression when she drops the Ibuku vote for Raya since idk why the initial vote was there. It looked like maybe fake RVS vote with intent to jump on Raya in a bit- but with the desire to make the later Raya vote look like it had something behind it instead of just being wagoning. Pretty reactive in general, but that could be time pressures. Townread on Ibuku reinforces my earlier worries about her vote on Ibuku instead of Raya being fake. Kind of liked 241 and PM hadn’t done much so moved back to where I was while I wait to see if anything happens after the time constrained period.

Did not realize deadline was only about 3 more days though.

[Hopkirk]

On other people people asked general reads about:
ABR is neutral gun to the head town.
Mutant's tone still strikes me as a bit off, especially early game and some later interactions. I could vote there.

[Hopkirk]

Activity in general and taking stances. Weren’t active while complaining about inactives.

i would say ive been more genuinely active than most of the wordy filler and noise in this game;my stances can be inferred from what I comment on?

Hi kirk, can you give me the backbone of your buns's read cause im going to iso dive her since its close to lynch time

u and i both know bins iso is 3 seconds long -_____-

Show me your meaningful pushing before 243 (since that's where I raised the point)

[Hopkirk]

Don’t like Ghostlys response there. The Raya read is based on ‘lack of proactivity’ and this applies moreso to half the game. Doesn’t seem consistent.

[Hopkirk]

Right now I’m looking at something roughly like this

Town: Moon, Joey, Raya,
Light town: ABR, Mozamis, Ibuku
Neutral: Mutant, Cythe
Light scum/scum (difficult to weigh it up relatively due to activity): Dreal, Bins, Ghostly, PMys

[Hopkirk]

Dunkerdoodles replaces Moonbird, effective immediately.

Instantly scummy.

Can you expand on that?

[Hopkirk]

Dunkerdoodles replaces Moonbird, effective immediately.

Instantly scummy.

Can you expand on that?

I view replacement as scumminess.

Statistically true I suppose.

[Hopkirk]

(I wasn't around for the reads list thing, but yeah, I'll admit I don't know where Ghostlin was coming from with that)

So the reads list being the same was untrue; I had conflated my feelings that it was a quick list to appease the horde (as it were) on the tail list of me posting a list, particularly since Raya hadn't really interacted with most of the game as of the first list.

- Ghost

Did you two disagree over the reads list itself, or just over Ghostlin's comment about Raya's being similar?

Mutant feels town to me too actually.

@Cythe: Was that the post you said you were going to make (one above this one)

[Hopkirk]

Why do you want to explain Rampage but not Pmys?

[Hopkirk]

Mutant’s tone reminds me of how I used to post.
@Mutant/360: In regards to the first half, what benefit does making an obvious/mistake misrepresentation have for scum Moz? It doesn’t help him whatsoever as scum, so I don’t see scum motivation.
On the second point, don’t you think there’s a difference between sheeping a vote early game and sheeping a thought? Anyway, people who’ve played for years just don’t think a RVS wagon will reach an accidental hammer. Again, I don’t see scum motivation.
On the third point, you’re picking on inconsequential word choice. The meaning there is pretty clear, Raya’s a light scumread. Although it’s kind of odd Moz jumps off when he does.
I townread/townlean on both Mutant and Moz right now.

Dream feels kind of overly hostile to minor attacks. I don’t get why he’s complaining about people saying he’s not contributing instead of (as an excuse for?) not contributing.

[Hopkirk]

I can see people forgetting deadline. I woke up a couple of hours ago and thought I might have missed the deadline by mistake.
I don't want any of the current popular lynches- ABR, Raya, Mozamis. They all sound like mislynches, and I don't see us actually getting anything from the wagon construction.

[Hopkirk]

My current preference is still Pmysterious. I'd also vote Ghostly/Cythe or maybe Dreal since he's kind of scummy and there's a lot of interactions there. Other votes would be reluctant.
I don't think all the scum is in that pool of three, but I'm not sure who else I'd add to it- I agree on the Moz wagon but all of them are currently townreads for independent reasons.

[Hopkirk]

Pmys
Mainly, their posts don’t match the tone of the game as I read it- especially in regards to rule 11.
Also, there’s been no pressure on them compared to similarly positioned players.
The inactivity reads as a bit less legitimate/more manufactured.
233- Implies a scumread on me and states minor scumread on Moon. 312- Ignores me asking to expand on 312. Claims not to have any reads. Either lying here or before. Same applies to Moon read. Development of reads doesn’t make sense. Feels calculated to avoid contribution/pushing a now townread player.

[Hopkirk]

I'll be online again before deadline.

@Dreal: What are your reads right now then?

[Hopkirk]

I don't see why Dreal isn't expanding.
I don't really see why Ghostly is pushing it so close to deadline while claiming to not want to lynch Dreal (I think).

[Hopkirk]

@Dreal: Can you expand on 'hard guilty'.

@Mutant: Don't share shit until Dreal expands on what he means. It's obvious enough already.

[Hopkirk]

@Bins: Can you explain why you scumread me? It sounds like it’s because I townread scum. That seems weird since I townread 6 people yesterday, 1 was scum, 2 flipped town, and you share 3 of the others now. You haven’t mentioned me negatively before except ‘he probably mentioned a buddy to wifom’ so it seems like a really odd vote to make.

[Hopkirk]

VOTE: Bins
We have a guilty claim, I've had Bins in my scumpool all game, associations with moz are bad, and a few of his latest posts are bad.

How are her associations with Moz bad? He doesn't reference her in any way worth mentioning.

Moz was obvious scum when he tried to fakeclaim with a name. I kind of like Bins since it reads like she picked up on that, rather than bussed. Sure, scum might have known that already, but that seems less likely.

[Hopkirk]

well my role name is my “title” i guess but i have no description

What do you mean no description?

Detective, do you live with anyone?

it doesn't say one way or the other but given my disposition (hating fucking everyone) - I doubt it!

Maybe if you 'hate everyone' you're an insane/paranoid/modified sanity cop. Anything in your role suggest this?

not explicitly

it just says I'm a detective, goes in to my history with that a little

tells me I can help the town by investigating people and finding out if they are guilty or not

you don't have a name yourself?

Personally I don't have a name, the mod wouldn't tell me a role name when I asked if my role had a name, and I'm only like 80% confident I know how my role works. It sounds odd that everyone else's role pms sounds a lot clearly than mine.

[Hopkirk]

Currently townreading (to varying degrees) everyone except PMysterious, Ghostly Penguin, and Cytheflyguy (who is more neutral than a scumread). Haven’t looked too much at interactions with Moz though so that might change a bit.

[Hopkirk]

I missed 568 earlier.
If that's legit you're probably getting modkilled. I asked if I could quote one or two specific sentences from my role pm and was told that would result in a modkill.

[Hopkirk]

That's not flavour?

[Hopkirk]

'Just to clarify, do both of your roles specifically state and use the word town to describe your alignments?'

My role specifically states it in the form of a standard win condition.

[Hopkirk]

'Just to clarify, do both of your roles specifically state and use the word town to describe your alignments?'

My role specifically states it in the form of a standard win condition.

A little strange that you've answered a question that wasn't addressed to you. Your answer is interesting though. Is that standard win condition in the flavour of eliminating threats, scum, mafia, etc.?

The question was asking, unless I massively misinterpreted it, whether we know 'town' is the name of our alignment.
It uses the word town, so answers the question.

[Hopkirk]

It uses the word town, so answers the question.

What do you mean by 'It'. Do you mean your own role card?

Specifically, the win condition line.

Wondering if we all got similar formats or not since a.) you seem so interested by this b.) Bins says she got no flavour but a full description while mine is described in a way that makes me unsure how it works, but with lots of flavour.

[Hopkirk]

Similar format of role pms that is.

[Hopkirk]

I think it could be useful for everyone to say what format their role pm was in (eg normal, no flavour etc).

Looking through associations, and Pmys comes off badly. Fits with what I was thinking before.

Given ABR probably died to a SK, the SK was almost definitely on Moz's wagon. No incentive to shrink the lynch pool if they're in it.

VOTE: Pmysterious

[Hopkirk]

My Dunker townread is also largely as above^, but I kind of liked Moon too.
@Mutant: had some thoughts yeah.

Pmys sounds like he's trying to buy time.

[Hopkirk]

I’m assuming Blade is group scum since a SK that’s just a roleblocker seems too weak.

@Mutant: Assuming mafia killed Joey/SK killed ABR because Joey was townread by everyone while ABR was townread by pretty much just me. Doesn’t make much sense a SK would risk shooting one of the most obvious kill targets while mafia also decides to shoot ABR. Could be a vigilante but doesn’t seem as likely.
Could also be two separate mafia teams, but not much point speculating yet.

I was thinking that ‘someone on Moz’s wagon caused him to die that way’. However, this was probably the serial killer since a.) They aren’t aligned with Moz, and b.) They most likely killed Rampage.
On Joey’s death, I could see ‘the blade’ as some sort of sacrificial cult. Fits fine.

I already specified I don’t have a ‘role name’. I don’t have a first name and don’t see why it’s on your table. I would like to hear about the other two columns (flavour/do you have a role name) from everyone though. That includes you on whether you have a role name btw.

[Hopkirk]

For my theories, I would like to know if role name and if flavour.

Still waiting on Pmys content right now.
Very confident in that read right now.
Why aren't more people voting.

[Hopkirk]

Ibuki has no first name! --★

Also, you are using my reads system wrong. You kinda have to have stated a read on me beforehand for you state whether that read has gone up or down.

mutantdevle

v1

mutantdevle

v2

Ibuku

[

*

3

4

[Hopkirk]

Hmmm.

I'd honestly just vote PM as well.

Why aren't you? There's only two votes on him.

Ibuku

[

*

3

4

@Be safe friend! @Raya

(Is raya scum)

It was a joke referencing your comment (which i thought was itself a joke on Mutant's style).


Low activity seems to be because people are waiting for Pmys. What I don't get is why he only has two votes on him, given that.

[Hopkirk]

HI ARI!! OwO


is there a reason why Dunkerdoodles is town guys

Is there a reason he's scum?

[Hopkirk]

I don't think there's a redirector, I just think I'm going to always get a guilty

my flavor indicates that I will always see something bad in people once I look deeply enough

I was hoping this would have played out differently, bins I believe you are town but I think you handled it not so great and we all did some damage, but hopefully can be okay still

You as town (which I do think you are), should have denied that you are scum, but not claimed so fast at all, and denied to claim anything when I pushed (which you did partially but not after already claiming too much already) - never claim until at L-1, imo, wait and see who believes what, and who pushes what, who asks what. It's a great way to draw out scum, and that is the goal, sure we don't want to blindly lynch a towny, but only scum wants to do that, so...yeh...anyway

oh well

NO ONE ELSE CLAIM SHIT PLEASE

Given this view of the game, why aren't you voting Pmys, or anyone?

[Hopkirk]

Regarding your table I think the following should also be there:
Dunker has a role name.
Ibuku has no role name.

Therefore, I only want:
@Cytheguy to say whether they have a role name before I can put my thoughts out.
@Mutant: Can you specify what you mean by ‘yes but not given’.

[Hopkirk]

I thought when she mentioned flavour name they were under the impression that was the same as role name.
But might as well just ask for clarification there as well then.

[Hopkirk]

Moz only fakeclaimed a first name though, he didn't have one. There's not a similarity there unless Raya is fakeclaiming it too.
@Raya: can you tell us your first name, or does it related to role.

[Hopkirk]

Doesn't seem alignment indicative to me.
Only person the table concerns me about is Dreal.
Plus Cythe for not fully responding to it.

[Hopkirk]

He has both. Everyone else is either flavour or role name.
Also it might explain the difference in Joey/Albert flips.

[Hopkirk]

Although right now I think 'detective' isn't actually his actual 'role name', but rather mentioned in flavour/part of the name but not the full one.

[Hopkirk]

Pmys is due a prod despite saying he was just about to post content last time.

Raya is just still not adding up to me. She isn't exactly the most townie player and, unless someone has lied about having a first name, lynching her would at least prove if the table means anything AI.

But the table doesn't paint anyone else badly (I agree that since you and Dreal have the same then Dreal doesn't look bad like I thought).

So you want to lynch Raya to show that we shouldn't have lynched Raya.

[Hopkirk]

@Dunkerdoodles: Who are you scumreading?

@Ari/Soc/mod: Can you prod Pmysterious.

[Hopkirk]

Are we planning a deadline scramble again?
Lack of traction on anything makes me even more conflident on Pmys.

[Hopkirk]

I'm not liking this talk of lynching PM. I think waiting for a replacement would be far more practical.

Also, am I the only one that thinks that the current flow of the game is moving really slowly?

he isn’t being lynched just because he’s lurking

He's lurking just because he isn't being lynched.

[Hopkirk]

@Soc: Votecount for end of D1 still needs to be fixed.
I don't want to lynch anyone who was on it today, but I don't remember exactly who was on it.
Raya could be 3p, but she doesn't seem like mafia, so I wouldn't want to lynch her today.

Ghostly/Pmys are my current suspicions.
Wary about the Dreal/Bins situation, though I wouldn't lynch either of them today since it's more due to confusion than explicit dislike. Want to see what happens with Dreal's inspect tonight, and townread Bins.

[Hopkirk]

Because scum only hard buddy on partners.

Still voting where I am.

[Hopkirk]

What do you mean by 'parsing content correctly'? I know what it means, but I don't see why it leads your to not care.

Don't like Ibuku's comments on Mutant above. He's not a townread for me because of 'spreadsheets' but because he was bleeding town D1.
The 'maybe I'll vote you comment' on Raya also sounds a bit odd.

Going to take a look through Ibuku's iso.

[Hopkirk]

73 : Feels natural, or as natural as an image can. Ibuku was suspicious of both of mutant’s townreads in prior posts, so I like the thought process behind questioning mutant.
197 : Odd he mentions ‘Hopkirk/Moz mafia’ without referencing either of us to that point. Still voting on Moonbird.
204 : Follows up with vote on me. Good for showing consistent thought process, technically bad for being on me rather than Moz.
224 : Calls Raya/Bins easy mislynches. Not really sure I follow the thought process given he’d expressed in 197 that he wouldn’t be opposed to Bins, but wouldn’t want to push her now since she shouldn’t be the main wagon. It seems a bit inconsistent, and is being used to justify voting me when I’m voting Bins, so I don’t like it, but it’s subtle enough that it could still easily be town.
239 : First significant mention of Moz. Could be seen as prodding a partner to do more, but not particularly significant.
400 and 403 : ABR was a weak wagon here since there was no real reason to be on him. Consequently, 403 is slightly less likely to be a bus on a partner put there while letting town mislynch. Got a sense of a Moz scumread there throughout too, so it doesn’t come from nowhere. I like the way the vote is made. Only thing I’m not clear on is why he picked Moz>Dreal. Still, could have jumped to Dreal and pushed that, but didn’t when Dreal could have been lynched, so I like it on the whole.
578 : (and the next few) Kind of like the thoughts behind asking about names. Logically it’s NAI since scum would have discussed stuff overnight after the reaction to Moz’s claim yesterday, but I kind of like it anyway for tone.
663 : Kind of unsure why he hasn’t pushed Ghostly by this point- a day into the phase- despite alluding towards it at the end of yesterday. Took 4 more days for him to vote Ghostly. More odd given his comments about scum being able to lurk to mislynches (in 760).

On the whole, still looks town to me. Seems consistent. I can follow the thought process well. The Moz vote is a good one.
Main issue I have is with the lack of push at Ghostly during the start of the day phase: @Ibuku.

[Hopkirk]

I'd like to hear more from Dreal.
Current scumreads are Ghostly/Pmys/maybe Dreal.

VOTE: Ghostly Since it's lonely here

[Hopkirk]

How long were you working on that post if you got ninjad?
Just want to test something.
831
831

[Hopkirk]

First was copy/paste from how I typed them all in word when I was writing earlier.
Second is using the post option in preview, which told me there shouldn't have been spaces.

I'm fairly sure I've been using the first type of link in isos for ages.
I think I recall someone saying something about them not leading to the right place once or twice, but I don't recall anyone directly mentioning they all led to the front page.
I'm kind of surprised about this.

[Hopkirk]

Yeah, I've done that in multiple games, just never as many times in a row.
I was getting it right before I took a break and came back though.

[Hopkirk]

I'd like to hear more from Dreal.
Current scumreads are Ghostly/Pmys/maybe Dreal.

VOTE: Ghostly Since it's lonely here

what was your read on my slot before i replaced in?

how does voting someone in the form of a naked vote help progress the game?

Slight town lean from the vote.
I've already expressed opinions on Ghost, so it's not really 'naked'. How does not voting progress the game?

[Hopkirk]

Which one being scum? The one you're on, or the third one?

[Hopkirk]

the one im on duh

Ibuku looks ok to me right now. If you want Ibuku lynched, can you outline why you think he's scum. The day's close to finished so I don't see the point of keeping quiet about why you don't like him.

I'm going to be limited/no activity from mid tomorrow until thursday- limited on wed, none the rest of the time.
At the moment, the game is going to be another scramble and barely anyone seems to actually care whatsoever.

[Hopkirk]

Pmys/Fern is actually probably town.
Dreal's investigator claim still has me confused. Why did we drop discussion of that?
Rereading. I feel like scum is within Dunker/Ghostly/Dreal.
Dunker especially has me worried at the moment.

VOTE: Dunker

[Hopkirk]

Pmys/Fern is actually probably town.
Dreal's investigator claim still has me confused. Why did we drop discussion of that?
Rereading. I feel like scum is within Dunker/Ghostly/Dreal.
Dunker especially has me worried at the moment.

VOTE: Dunker

i'm sorry
my gut tells me ibuki is scum so thats why im on the wagon

It's got to be based on something though. What specifically caused it to develop?

err not result, claim, damn I think I need to go back to bed

Just that there's no resolution. It seemed to go from the main discussion to nobody referencing it really quickly.

[Hopkirk]

VOTE: Ghostly
L1
This is my preference anyway. No point trying to push DD this close to deadline when I'm limited activity anyway.

[Hopkirk]

Can you quote the specific thing you're talking about here mutant- that makes Dunker town?

[Hopkirk]

I am really not liking ghostly. They are at l-1 and continue to show they don't care. Barely posting and just not acknowledging that they are at l-1

Ghostly last posted 15 hours ago. This was a prod dodge. They were on L-3, not L-1.
I don't follow.

[Hopkirk]

I am really not liking ghostly. They are at l-1 and continue to show they don't care. Barely posting and just not acknowledging that they are at l-1

Ghostly last posted 15 hours ago. This was a prod dodge. They were on L-3, not L-1.
I don't follow.

okay. most townies when at l-1 take advantage of the position they are in.
they also try to get themselves out of l-1. ghostly has not done anything to help us find scum if they are town. no reads, no claims, no nothing. they are still not posting.

do you get where i am coming from

Ghostly hasn't posted since he was L-3.
Ghostly may be intentionally not posting.
He may not be intentionally not posting.
How did you determine it was intentional?

[Hopkirk]

@Ghostly: I treat gimmicks at NAI. It does not make me like Fern.

You quoted my post in 896. I asked UC why he thought your lack of posting was intentional as I believed it was due to being busy. Can you clarify whether you misinterpreted it?
In 895 you say UC is an easy lynch. You make this a point against Ibuku. In 899 you scumread UC yourself. Do you feel this is a contradiction?

Cookies killing Joey was a thought I had. Dreal’s role might have weird stuff like that included. The workings of mine (as I mentioned before) are not fully explained.

I thought Dunker thought mutant could confirm bins because of what he thought Bins gave mutant, not because of Dunker’s role?

Ibuku please claim.

[Hopkirk]

According to Dreal/Fen/Ghostlin, Mutant is a loser, loser, idiot. I am only a loser idiot

Ghostly feels semi-confirmable which makes me kind of iffy about lynching them today.
UC I could see being scum, but wouldn't be comfortable lynching there with the time we have left.

[Hopkirk]

UNVOTE: Ghostly
Reread the iso. Better than I thought. I don't want to lynch Ghostly, especially with the CV claim.

[Hopkirk]

Out of the three main wagons, right now I'd probably lean towards Raya.

[Hopkirk]

VOTE: Raya

[Hopkirk]

I'll only be online for at the very most most two more hours, then I'll be offline until deadline- and obviously unable to change my vote or anything.

[Hopkirk]

I'll only be online for at the very most most two more hours, then I'll be offline until deadline- and obviously unable to change my vote or anything.

Would you consider hammering Ibuki before you leave?

Aren't you willing to vote Raya? She was one of your two top scumreads 4 days ago, and you haven't mentioned any reason for that to change since then and I don't remember you posting really important about Ibuku that made him lower in your reads.

You and Ghostly both seem willing to lynch Raya, which would make 5 votes for her. I think Fern scumread her, but I don't remember. It's an acheivable lynch, so I wouldn't switch from a lower preference.

[Hopkirk]

Why do you prefer Ibuku to Raya right now? Do you know roughly when you changed your mind?

There's a fairly decent chance I'd be able to hammer 20 minutes before the deadline if absolutely needed, but that would be for the sake of avoiding a no lynch.

[Hopkirk]

Currently suspicious of UC/Fern/Dunker.
This seems like massclaim sort of time?

Want to hear Dreal's result before any claiming though.
UC was definitely online but made no attempt to vote anyone. I'd like to hear his explination for that.

[Hopkirk]

Actually yeah, tomorrow would probably be better for a mass claim. It’s probably not guaranteed mylo.

[Hopkirk]

Living people on the Moz wagon: Dunkerdoodles, mutantdevle, drealmerz7, cytheflyguy
Living people on the Raya wagon: drealmerz7, Hopkirk, Ghostly Penguin, mutantdevle

@Mutant: If you still think the weird death flavour for Moz was due to someone on the wagon, then it’s CY(now UC). Not sure myself, but I have UC as scum by POE anyway.

[Hopkirk]

Like, I don't get how yesterday went how it did if mafia were actually active.

[Hopkirk]

Like, I don't get how yesterday went how it did if mafia were actually active.

Could you elaborate on why you think this? I think I understand but I want your explicit theory / opinion on it.

Too little momentum. Nothing really happening. Another deadline scramble.
Indicates to me mafia aren't posting much.
POE makes it that group too. Townreads are/were in higher posters I've interacted with.

[Hopkirk]

Dreal: did you get a result, what was it?

Like, I don't get how yesterday went how it did if mafia were actually active.

Hey loser, it was deadline, thats how it went down.

yesterday

. If you're going to be a loser, be a loser with some reading comprehension. Not the end of yesterday. Yesterday. The whole of yesterday.

I might give a partial or even full claim after we've had the cookie result and Dreal's inspect. I think my role is effectively useless now, and it's a role that's much more likely town than scum.

[Hopkirk]

So did you get town or scum on Ibuku?

[Hopkirk]

I'm fairly sure I'm a bodyguard (with certain modifications and unclear sections).

[Hopkirk]

Bins N1. Not revealing more.

[Hopkirk]

Non-consecutive.
What makes you doubt me?

[Hopkirk]

I feel like a mass claim is probably a good idea.

[Hopkirk]

@Mutant: I doubt there'd be two scum roleblockers.

[Hopkirk]

They should be town either way. But I'd prefer claims from scummy people first anyway.

[Hopkirk]

Why did you pick mutant n1? Expected him to die?
Bins n2 is obvious.

[Hopkirk]

There's probably 3 scum left though- 2 group, 1 SK.

[Hopkirk]

Obviously though, I still want to lynch UC/Fern today and tomorrow right now.

[Hopkirk]

What about Dreal?

[Hopkirk]

You didn't try and decipher it before now?

[Hopkirk]

You're scum and probably the SK if there is one?

1v1 me then.

Its still UC/Fern.

[Hopkirk]

SK is higher priority though?

[Hopkirk]

You claim to want me run over.

[Hopkirk]

Scum.

[Hopkirk]

You just asked me a question

'Please tell me what kind of loser would do that.'

I answered

'Scum'

And you're either trying to twist it (oh, Hopkirk's just calling me scum) or you can't follow a simple question-answer.

[Hopkirk]

Then if you're town, you're reading from a closed perspective.

[Hopkirk]

Mutant is new town who really really thinks he's right and is proud of how smart being right must make him.

[Hopkirk]

I could see Mutant/Dreal being the scumteam here actually.

[Hopkirk]

I could see Mutant/Dreal being the scumteam here actually.

Why does Mozaloser bus scum!drealoser the way he does? What makes you think Mozaloser was bussing drealoser7 over just pushing a mislynch?
I don't remember Mozaloser being the bussing type but yet again I haven't really played with him in a long time.

Moz doesn't bus Dreal? Do you mean the other way around?

[Hopkirk]

Like he votes him, but I wouldn't call it a bus.
If Mutant is scum then they'd be going with bussing by that point.

[Hopkirk]

I mean given he was hard buddying me, I can see him attacking a scum partner- especially after they'd committed to a hard bus if Mutant is scum.

[Hopkirk]

A lot of Mutant's stuff today is kind of dodgy in tone, and I really don't like his opening looking back.

[Hopkirk]

Fullclaim:

I’m sad/depressed/useless etc that people are dying when I can’t do anything. I realize I can use my body to protect people.
I can target a player to try and protect. But this is hard/draining.

Tried to protect Bins n1. Got a response: I watched vigil all night and saw nothing. Got depressed or something on seeing nothing and couldn’t use it again the next night.

Either I’m a non-consecutive BG, non-consecutive Doc, or consecutive Doc if I save someone, or a NC bodyguard that has something happen if they save someone. I think the line about watching is just flavour.

[Hopkirk]

Would a Judas role have been at all possible for ABR?

[Hopkirk]

I'll withhold comments on anything Mutant's said until we get the last three full claims. I have thoughts though.

Dreal's reluctance to claim who he targetted is somewhat worrying given there's a watcher. If he's with Mutant he would definitely know there's a watcher/tracker since Mutant was sure of it.
The IC could trigger based on a SK dying or something.

[Hopkirk]

That's what I meant yeah.

[Hopkirk]

We won't be lynching anyone before we've fullclaimed.
Why do you need to know if there's a RB first?

[Hopkirk]

UC seems like a likely SK.

[Hopkirk]

Claim please.

[Hopkirk]

Feel like a full claim?

[Hopkirk]

16 minutes passed so far. Stop looking through the thread to make it look better and fullclaim.

[Hopkirk]

A real claim doesn't take this long.

[Hopkirk]

Also Mutant, you can claim since there's no claimed RBs.

[Hopkirk]

When did you track me and where.

[Hopkirk]

Eh, it's a scumclaim and not even a consistent one.

VOTE: UC

[Hopkirk]

UC is groupscum then since SK doesn't gamethrow here by trying to exchange themself for one townie, whereas groupscum does.

His claim doesn’t match how he started the day, his claim is awful- especially how it was done, and that he didn’t ask for his n1 result, and his play until now has been awful. You lynch on play not claims. If anyone doesn’t want to lynch UC right now then they should thinking about that postgame since they’ll believe literally any claim a non-stupid mafia makes.

Although that doesn’t matter since if UC is telling the truth, he should be modkilled, and if he doesn’t get modkilled, he’s not telling the truth.

my flavor goes

your skill is to see. people are not as skittish as the deer, mobile as bird, or elusive as rabbit. What you see. the movements of others. you may select one and learn where they go that night.

@Socrates

: you told me that quoting a smaller portion of my role pm that this would be breaking rule 8 and is prohibited. Rule 8 states that 'Violation of this rule will result in immediate modkill.'

Therefore, is UC going to be modkilled?

[Hopkirk]

Either he's breaking a rule that results in an immediate modkill, or he's scum.
Either way, he should be flipping here.

[Hopkirk]

Why aren't you voting UC yet.

[Hopkirk]

my flavor goes

your skill is to see. people are not as skittish as the deer, mobile as bird, or elusive as rabbit. What you see. the movements of others. you may select one and learn where they go that night.

This sounds like you are trying to quote exactly what your flavour says which A. would get you mod killed, B. is completely unbelievable since everyone's flavour is so much more detailed than that (at least, I assume it is for everyone else too as obviously all claims have been explaining the general idea of our flavour rather than what it is explicitly) and C. crappy grammar which I would not expect from Socrates.

The grammer being bad is because it looks like he's 'cut bits out' but it looks like he's (trying to) directly quote.

[Hopkirk]

Fern/UC confirmed.

[Hopkirk]

I'll hammer UCV if it comes to it
but I'm sorry, attempting to get another player modkilled is not cool regardless of your alignment.
And I'm dropping the gimmick for a bit just to call you out on this.
You should be ashamed of yourself honestly.

I pmed the mod at the start of the game. He clarified it's a modkillable offense. UC is either doing something that should get modkilled, or playing with the rules/modkillable offenses. Not brining attention to it would be stupid.

[Hopkirk]

It's ridiculous if one player can quote from a role pm when I was told I couldn't since it affects how we claim.

[Hopkirk]

Ok so you're scumclaiming or game throwing.

[Hopkirk]

There's a 0% chance he's actually getting modkilled here anyway.

[Hopkirk]

It's not. It's the rules of the game.

[Hopkirk]

8) Do not, at any time, directly quote any sort of private messages between yourself and the Mod. Violation of this rule will result in immediate modkill.

Are you saying you would not bring it up if someone quoted their role pm?

[Hopkirk]

I probably should have pmd the mod, but it's pretty annoying seeing someone break game rules to try and get you lynched.

[Hopkirk]

Though surely I'd just post in the thread that UC hadn't broken game rules (8), hence was fakeclaiming? Anyone would then also have to pm Soc to check.

[Hopkirk]

Can you explain why you think it's shitty in this scenario?

[Hopkirk]

As in a godfather who comes up as innocent to investigations.

[Hopkirk]

I don't really see why Dreal would be a godfather SK though. The only other cop seems to be Bins' one-shot device, so it'd be pretty useless unless it was say GF/Ninja together. Even then, the GF part seems weird.

[Hopkirk]

Did you think you were a serial killer Mutant?

[Hopkirk]

When UC flipped scum (and from the start of the day really) I was still sure Fern was his partner- though Fern had convinced me you could have been the SK.
Intended to protect our watcher.

[Hopkirk]

Given you were on L1 anyway it wasn't the most gamechanging modkill.

[Hopkirk]

Are we getting scum/dead topics?