NY214: Project Pinecone (Game over! Town wins!)

[dramonic]

You want me to play risk

sober

???
That's harsh pine :<

vote:pine

[dramonic]

...

vote:skygazer

My joke overtook my brain

[dramonic]

It's Risk. It isn't meant to be

[dramonic]

vote: inferno

zzz

[dramonic]

I think inferno flails by now if they're scum

...so...
why aren't you voting him?

[dramonic]

For

some

definition of not flailing.
76-80-81-88 is the least organic progression I've seen in a long time.

[dramonic]

By flailing, I meant inferno is not spending much time if any defending themselves

or

scumhunting. They're prone to 1v1 iirc

ftfy

This whole thing about trying to line up a TW lynch is pretty dumb, but at least SOME of the people presenting it must be town.
What is this travesty

[dramonic]

Actually we lynch dramonic today.
And since brass seems to confirm my read there..good detective work guys, let's wrap it up!

thanks but no thanks.

[dramonic]

I’m done
VOTE: Gustavo

There’s not even any defense coming from him. He’s just calling me a liar and being evasive.

hm

[dramonic]

Dramonic posting strikes me as very cagey here

?
Not sure what that means, even after google define.

[dramonic]

Tight lipped
Aside from on inferno I don't know much of what you're thinking this game (okay it's early)
and there I kinda want to know more of what your read is now after his exchange (I have to try to guess at your meaning in 222, I mean the implication is you don't like it)

The explication is technically that is causes reflexion. I liked the vote, I was just not sure if it was my bad read, him bussing or whatever.
I found his exchange with Gus to be pretty town, though I'm more convinced Gus is town than Inferno (for reasons I can't word in this game because of the chill rules)
Still think the early posts were a series of flailin and fence-sitting to the point where I'm surprised he managed to get off that fence without medical assistance, but at this juncture I'll

unvote

Im heading out the door right now but ill get back to you

[dramonic]

Omg omg omg omg omg
AAAAAAAANDYYYYYYYYYY ♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡

I dont know how any of you can question the alignment of the Gus slot. It's a prime example of a specific kind of player that makes really clear slips as scum. Like scum has to convince themselves of their own argument before they can convince the town, and I don't think for a second that Gus thought he could be wrong. That doesn't come from a scum mind.
Which is good cuz it means we can conftown the single most wonderful person ever ♡

Currently not at home, but ill prolly vote flubs once I get back and reread. His most recent posts have been less than stellar.

[dramonic]

Re 184, I'm not going to say I have a great explanation, but dramonic's posts just feel like scum posting. It's pure gut, and no real evidence, yeah, but, like everything feels like he's too calculated, I guess would be the right phrase, to be town.

I also don't think 482 is a town post, but, again, I can't quite put my finger on why.

My dramonic read is purely instinct, and I cannot read his posts and tell my stupid instinct with my brain that it's being stupid.

Those tags lead to your own post and the OP, so I'm assumin you screwed up something in there
Also I might come off as calculated because I have to actually think about how I post. My normal posting style is not chill at all. XD

[dramonic]

I see less "caught for the reason" and more "you guys are idiots for scumreading me because I'm town and therefore cannot be scummy"

[dramonic]

*wrong reason

[dramonic]

I think you overestimate some people's abilities

[dramonic]

Welcome to Mafiascum

[dramonic]

Man you are gonna be really disappointed with people.
Not everyone is like that, but players like Gustavo are clearly [REDACTED]

[dramonic]

That is one really opaque attempt at appearing transparent

vote:davesaz

Eventually ill get a moment to sit down and review the whole game but in the meantime I dont remember where my vote was

[dramonic]

Im not saying it aint genuine, im saying it's a lot of word that means very little and have nothing to do with the game.

The whole line of "Im bad at lying and am thus town" is such an easy cop-out

[dramonic]

Good scum doesn't really need to lie. You can be scum and genuinely scumread someone who you know isn't on your team for many legitimate reasons. Hell, you can spend the entirety of a game crusading for your own buddy's lynch and get through the game without lying that way.

"I play as myself", "I don't make stuff up" and lines like that are all fine and dandy but they give nothing. Nobody plays as someone else (besides being chiller here than usual), and you're not expected to make stuff up. That's like saying "I have opinions". So does everyone else in the game.

Couple that with 603 (not a post tag but its 3 posts up, sue me) that is super vaguely shading Ausuka and non-committal. "It's an okay answer, but roll again and you might earn a townread!" (Paraphrase) just rings like bull to me. It's keeping the back door wide open to swing a read either way. Same for the whole "I have a secret opinion that ill only share after I hear yours cuz you might echo me". That applies to literally any read at any point in any game by any player.
Everyone claims to be town and therefore know their own read to be genuine, that doesn't mean you can cop out of giving your own first. Your self-read is no stronger than anyone else's.


...Hopefully that wasn't not chill.

Tbf, if you take offense to being told your post/approach doesn't sound genuine in a game built around fooling people it might be good to step back. You are not what you say on here. Im not saying you aren't genuine as a person, and I'm sure most of your 602 comes from the heart.
But I AM saying that scum-you has a heart too.

[dramonic]

Lotsa ninjas to 603 is no longer 3 posts up.
Yall are butts

[dramonic]

"You are not what you say on here" is meant as "you are not defined by what you say on here", not as "You are not who you claim to be"
Just realized that can be twisted waaaaaay hard .-.

[dramonic]

Was I not chill?

[dramonic]

@inferno: "if x flips town theres scum on the wagon" isn't much a door as much as an empty sentence. Like 90% of lynchwagons have scum on them, it's a dumb statement.

[dramonic]

I've yet to see you explain how you get anywhere. Each post you've made has sounded like "fufufu according to plan!~" to me. You say you don't case iindividuls d1 but your reads are nebulous at best. I got that I'm scum with a lot of people though.

@Brass: town not doing what you want != town not working together

[dramonic]

[dramonic]

dramonoc

, are you alive? talk to me

Hi. sup?

Dramonic seems to be throwing shade without many reads. When dave was here, he just sort of attacked dave, I feel, and it goes back. I don't think there's anything here that can be called gamesolving, and I don't see him doing really anything pro-town.

Again, I'm fine with fluff posts, but when someone is throwing shade and not much else, it does not look good.

He hasn't followed up any of the shade thrown with "This is why I think someone's scum" or "I like that response" so, I don't see any pro-town actions from him.

Tight lipped
Aside from on inferno I don't know much of what you're thinking this game (okay it's early)
and there I kinda want to know more of what your read is now after his exchange (I have to try to guess at your meaning in 222, I mean the implication is you don't like it)

The explication is technically that is causes reflexion. I liked the vote, I was just not sure if it was my bad read, him bussing or whatever.
I found his exchange with Gus to be pretty town, though I'm more convinced Gus is town than Inferno (for reasons I can't word in this game because of the chill rules)
Still think the early posts were a series of flailin and fence-sitting to the point where I'm surprised he managed to get off that fence without medical assistance, but at this juncture I'll

unvote

Im heading out the door right now but ill get back to you

Omg omg omg omg omg
AAAAAAAANDYYYYYYYYYY ♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡

I dont know how any of you can question the alignment of the Gus slot. It's a prime example of a specific kind of player that makes really clear slips as scum. Like scum has to convince themselves of their own argument before they can convince the town, and I don't think for a second that Gus thought he could be wrong. That doesn't come from a scum mind.
Which is good cuz it means we can conftown the single most wonderful person ever ♡

Currently not at home, but ill prolly vote flubs once I get back and reread. His most recent posts have been less than stellar.

Good scum doesn't really need to lie. You can be scum and genuinely scumread someone who you know isn't on your team for many legitimate reasons. Hell, you can spend the entirety of a game crusading for your own buddy's lynch and get through the game without lying that way.

"I play as myself", "I don't make stuff up" and lines like that are all fine and dandy but they give nothing. Nobody plays as someone else (besides being chiller here than usual), and you're not expected to make stuff up. That's like saying "I have opinions". So does everyone else in the game.

Couple that with 603 (not a post tag but its 3 posts up, sue me) that is super vaguely shading Ausuka and non-committal. "It's an okay answer, but roll again and you might earn a townread!" (Paraphrase) just rings like bull to me. It's keeping the back door wide open to swing a read either way. Same for the whole "I have a secret opinion that ill only share after I hear yours cuz you might echo me". That applies to literally any read at any point in any game by any player.
Everyone claims to be town and therefore know their own read to be genuine, that doesn't mean you can cop out of giving your own first. Your self-read is no stronger than anyone else's.


...Hopefully that wasn't not chill.

Tbf, if you take offense to being told your post/approach doesn't sound genuine in a game built around fooling people it might be good to step back. You are not what you say on here. Im not saying you aren't genuine as a person, and I'm sure most of your 602 comes from the heart.
But I AM saying that scum-you has a heart too.

Even ignoring the fact I don't think I'm being shady, saying I don't follow-up on my ~shade~ is just plain false

[dramonic]

vote: HitAlt

We're trolling you guys.


@Chickadee: So... that is one elaborate opinion on me.

[dramonic]

Sure, lemme just get them to replace back in so I can follow up on what I was saying about them :>

[dramonic]

I think you just have a gut scumread on me and are trying to throw everything and the kitchen sink at me hoping something will stick.
Just say it's gut.

[dramonic]

basically he started out by saying "these three people are the scum team" and as soon as people started to apply, like, any scrutiny at all to the idea of guessing the scum team that early, he was like "ACTUALLY I just think this one person is scum and the other two are scum leans. I made this assertion for Very Smart Reasons"

Last post of my spam for now - this is flawed.
Go check the situation and posting around my accused backpedaling.
My honeypot got very mild scrutiny and critique towards it in the start, and I actually got three votes on SkyG before I revealed why I had done what I did.
Now tell me this:

why would I "backpedal" on those "faked scumreads" as scum?

It would only fit if I was scum WITH Sky, and was afraid that the "bus" would go through.
Which I'm not, and I wasn't either - I still would like for us to lynch SkyG because I believe there's a high chance for scum there, and even if not red, it would help me advance my VCA for tomorrow.

So assuming scum!Hit, I would've brought myself to the front, called a list of people I'm willing to lynch (most of who propably could've been lynched as well), and then made an unnecessary soft-turn to annoy people?
Solid theory - pick another.

Don't twist so hard you're gonna hurt yourself.

[dramonic]

which wagon is "that wagon"?

@Rask: I'd rather lynch Hit or Taly.

[dramonic]

@TW: find one hard stance he's taken besides the stance that lynching him is trolling.

[dramonic]

am I missing something or is the reason for the HitAlt wagon basically tonal pants on head stuff?

It was a reply to that. You don't have to since there is none.

[dramonic]

1) Why is Hit scum to you? I don't see a lot of reasoning connected to your vote.
2) Who is 790 directed to?
3) Why do you reserve any opinion of my posts so far in this game?
4) Thoughts on Flubb and his wagon?

1) His entire ISO is posturing and arrogance. There's zero scumhunting, zero case, zero hard stance, zero nothing besides "Im the best, just give me til DX to prove it huehuehue". It's all white noise.
2) Broken post tag, please clarify
3) I haven't reserved any opinion? I still think you're scum (who seems to have forgotten he's voting his buddy)
4) Recent post makes me think Flubbs is town and probably just lynchbait. He's been the counterwagon to every major wagon today.

[dramonic]

oh nvm, you're on the counterwagon.
Yeah, not movin.

[dramonic]

TW steadily gainin scumpoints

[dramonic]

Generally scum WANTS to keep the lynchbaits around rask <_<

[dramonic]

K so TW+HA is pretty much locked and flubs is essentially conftown.
Progress

[dramonic]

One scum and maybe a 3rd party to go.

[dramonic]

Then we can lynch Taly first after HA since everyone and their grandma has a boner for keeping TW alive

[dramonic]

that wasnt chill sorry Pine.

[dramonic]

Hardly, since there's no associative leading to Taly-scum.
Keep trying tho!

@TW: It's that game with the snakes and ladders right?

[dramonic]

That's a lovely accusation, except I've been on Taly's ass since before the replacement and TW making a stupid play doesn't make it not there. I'm still saying the three are scum.

I'm not saying you're stupid, but you're confused as fuck.

[dramonic]

And I’m telling you that TW+Hit doesn’t make sense because of how hard Duck is defending Hit, and

good scum would not do that this late.

Which was what my point actually was.

I assume you mean early? (or late in the day/wagon?)
I agree good scum would not do that, but I've never played a game with TW, so at this juncture my options are bad town defending scum or bad scum.
I'll take my 50-50, thx.

[dramonic]

We have a competing wagon in flubs, HA could be a good PR, TW might just be bad at scum.
Those are three valid reasons (albeit the third might not be I dont know the guy besides site chat)

[dramonic]

We have a competing wagon in flubs,

HA could be a good PR

, TW might just be bad at scum.
Those are three valid reasons (albeit the third might not be I dont know the guy besides site chat)

If you ever thought I was a town-PR, you should never say something like this out loud..!
VOTE: dramonic - my mind is actually made at this point I think.

There's no fucking way you

really

thought I meant town-pr

@inferno: You're asking me to justify TW's bad play. I can only speculate on the reason behind it.

[dramonic]

I did, several times. The fact youve got a confbias doesn't make things not there.
There's no logical reason for the defense and when confronted about it he literally went "nah".
What game are you even reading?

[dramonic]

Im gonna take a step back for now cuz im all out of chill from you two muffins

[dramonic]

-Early game, dramonic does hardly anything to interact with the game until #604, which is the top half of page 25. So very little real hunting from him early game.

Before that point I discussed reads on you and Gus, which is basically 80% of the in-game posts by that point

-He refuses to explain why Gus is Town because of “chill rules,” but when I point out Gus’ major inconsistencies, his only response is “you’re gonna be disappointed with people.” Plus, in #472 he talks about Gustavo’s argument and how he has to convince himself as scum and such. What argument? There was no arguments being had. So weak case for town!Gus, especially when challenged

Pretty sure anyone except you and Hit would understand exactly what I'm saying here.

-He provides little in terms of actual reads

I've provided reads on like half the playerlist, dunno what you're smoking

-the davesaz wagon consists mostly of “you’re not being transparent enough” and no other real points and concerns are being stated

Transparency is 95% of what makes a player town.

-he’s actually just sheeping the Hit wagon. He’s added no relavant content to it

Again, you haven't actually read my ISO

-he’s done a total reverse on TW with no progression or reasoning except for that he’s defending Hit, who isn’t even confirmed scum yet

Reverse based on what?

-Is passive aggressively tunneling Taly despite giving no reads on him after davesaz replaces out

It's the same playerslot. I don't care what Taly has to say.

-only provided original reads on davesaz. No other original content from the slot after that exchange

See above

-Posturing pretty hard for accusing someone of posturing and not doing anything

... do you know what posturing means?

[dramonic]

Man you're easy to bribe

[dramonic]

Repost it in a readable color and Ill consider it, but from what little I read its just more twisty bull

[dramonic]

Oh, yes, your two posts saying: "Gus is town because of his 1v1" and "Gus is a specific type of player that makes what he did town, so Andrius is conftown."
And notice how I said "little hunting?" Plus I address your read on Gus below, and in context, it's more of taking a position on the current topic and trying to use it to push a replace in as conftown. (Which, by the way, your conftown claim is a bit of a stretch anyways. But that's another point.)

There's nothing stretchy about my conftown claim. Gus play was textbook basic town VI.

Wow. Talk about blowing people off. dramonic, I don't know what sort of playstyles you think exist, but in what world does someone COMPLETELY REVERSE ON THEIR REASONS FOR A READ?

Scum has to convince themselves of their own argument before they can convince the town, and I don't think for a second that Gus thought he could be wrong. That doesn't come from a scum mind.

This. His stances and opinions are irrelevant, it's his behavior that is telling.

I was not aware that I, Hit, the Andrius slot, the dave slot, Duck, and flubber composed 8 people. and there's about zero detail on any of them except for davesaz.
So yeah, you've given a handful of reads with little to no reasoning behind them.

I've elaborated on my read on Hit, duck, dave slot and gus slot. you and flubs I haven't said much on, so I'll give you that and agree that I haven't given reads on half the players.

Wrong. Good, logical, town benefiting hunting is 95% of what makes a player town. You can be as opaque as frick and no one will give a damn if you're advancing the gamestate in a way that benefits town.

That's just false so... dunno what to add there. There's a large, LARGE pool of players that don't know what the fuck they're doing most games and that are town. Their play certainly isn't logical or town benefiting.

Yes I have. And the one post you do have explaining your sheeping is more or less parroting exactly what I said at the start of the wagon.

I actually voiced herethat I thought his stuff was bull, which is before you even mentioned him as a read, so... The fact I didn't pin "therefore you are scum" at the end doesn't make my thoughts a parrot. Hell, you're the one

agreeing

with the basis for my vote and embelishing on it, later.

Well, at the start of the game, you make it pretty clear that you think Duck is town. When he stats defending Hit, however, you just reverse on him with no outward indication of why.

I said that yall discussing how he needs to die early by virtue of being TW is stupid. That's not remotely "pretty clearly a townread"

That would be called stupidity in action. You don't just ignore what a slot says because you think that the player from before was scum. At this point it's a level of confbias that isn't even dumb anymore. It's just scummy.

That's not confbias. Confbias would be building a bullshit case on Taly because Dave made it obvious he's scum. It's naive and stupid to give the replacement a clean slate because "it's a different person".
Also I'm not ignoring what Taly says, I'm just interpreting it knowing he's scum. I don't care != I'm ignoring.

Above where? You are parroting, sheeping and generally coasting through this game, and providing little to a town-beneficial gamestate.

I interpreted this question as "no original content on the Dave slot since the replacement" as opposed to "no original content". To which I reply... I've given plenty of thoughts so I don't have much to reply to that. You can go dig up the same post I flung at Brass if it distracts you.

"A particular way of behaving that is intended to convey a false impression."
Such as:
1. Acting like you're a town leading role when you've actually done little to push the gamestate forward
2. Sheeping wagons and then acting like you've got some big read on the victim
3. Parsing a post to make it look like you're giving logical responses when you're actually just blowing of the poster's points

1. I'm not acting like I'm a town leading role?
2. Addressed earlier, but my votes on Dave and HitAlt are both very clearly explained.
3. Technically I'm doing both. Giving logical responses, AND blowing off your points cuz most are bullshit.

-You've said that Andrius is conftown from the moment of his replace in an then proceeded to have 0 interaction with the slot.

...Ok? So? Just because I have a townread on someone doesn't mean I have to constantly interact with them. We clearly agree on who scum is, there's little to discuss.

-No you have not. You've posted about zip about taly except for the fact that you think he's scum. You've got no real case on him, you're just conftunneling his slot.

Taly and Dave are the same slot. I have nothing to say to Taly. The case is that he replaced Davez.

-Confbias? What confbias? I started scum reading you literally right before this post was made. What?

Confbias about TW being town, not about me being scum.

In conclusion, dramonic is either blowing off my points or trying to reverse the work of defending himself onto me (which is a super scum thing to do btw), not contributing to a good town gamestate, and providing reads without actually giving his own reasons for them.

In conclusion, this is false.


Also ffs write in a readable color that was fucking painful.

[dramonic]

@Pine

: That was more seizure-yellow than orange, but thanks nonetheless

[dramonic]

Thank you for the textbook example of "caught for the wrong reason" Taly. We'll put you in the wiki

[dramonic]

@Taly: Your predecessor condemned your slot by being completely obvscum and you're getting pissy with me because of it. You're caught, get over yourself.

[dramonic]

Calling my play antitown because you're caught scum is really classy btw.

[dramonic]

It's not flailing it's a tantrum

[dramonic]

Also, I move that if dramonic’s level of trashy nasty bait play continues, he get replaced out.
I’m sorry, but no one appreciates being treated like dirt when pressing a read. It’s only being done to piss people off so reads can be blown off, and it’s ridiculous.

@Mod

so Pine sees this.

My play isn't trashy nasty baity, you're just frustrated because I'm refuting your points.

[dramonic]

Honestly though, you keep calling stupid and an ass and I think the biggest insult I threw was callin you a muffin

[dramonic]

*calling me

[dramonic]

flashwagoning me today is an awful move ftr but any suggestions on what to do here?

Good thing nobody is voting you?

[dramonic]

Not waiting to get lolhammered while at work.
Im a prime-night Jailkeeper. So jk on 2-3-5-7

Way to derail a scumlynch to out your PRs people

[dramonic]

Just because it's a normal doesnt mean Pine can't make up modifiers

[dramonic]

That is the most defensive PR claim I’ve ever read.
It’s also very convenient that it won’t help us at all N1...

Because my odds of obstructing a N1 kill as an outed JK would be massive indeed if I was regular

[dramonic]

Pretty sure that's playstyle

[dramonic]

:<