large normal 239. game over

[ItalianoVD]

Eh, let me know when things get serious. I’ll be back later.

[ItalianoVD]

Eh, let me know when things get serious. I’ll be back later.

Why not make them serious yourself?

Eh, but I’m lazy.

[ItalianoVD]

eyes opened wider
no bitterness remaining
vibes are well aligned

VOTE: ItalianoVD
What’s up, doc?

Yooo what up again?!

[ItalianoVD]

anyone give me two good reasons why I should make you a double voter and I will

1) I’m the best at a.c.e.


2) I’m a fun guy

[ItalianoVD]

Are those good enough reasons?!

[ItalianoVD]

VOTE: Nero

This is not town!Nero.

Nero is SCUM!!!

[ItalianoVD]

his reasons were pretty solid tho ngl

I knew it.

[ItalianoVD]

y is this not town Nero?

I know town!Nero And all this right here...

Spoiler:

Is that something you actually believe b/c that seems like a silly thought.

scum!nero patronizes scumreads.

im town
i responded faster than anyone else

town!nero doesn't say he's town.

How many scums are here in large?

check ur pt

scum!nero shades

DeasVail - or maybe this one is mafia

Why

prob b/c its pretty basic to be wary of a neg utility claim b/c every once in a while scum do claim one and skate by.

day is young but I already want to kill half this thread. I really am a roman emporer!

Why are you answering questions not addressed to you? I'm sure I remember you calling this out in games I've played with you. town!nero doesn't

"want to kill half the thread"

!

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz


more votes on ItalianoVD

town!nero is NOT lazy!

JV, you are asking the silliest questions right now....

More patronizing?

Why

y not? its p4 and you are concerned about a wagon on ???? players lol

And yet more...

Nero what do you think about gamma?

in a not so surprising note, I don't really like him that much.

Didn't really like his soft defense of me in VOTE: 48 and I think his thought that there could be 3 scum is laughable. Would be funny if he was scum that slipped that his team was 3 wich means there'd be a traitor and guy true claimed his traitor role.

scum!nero thinks everything is amusing. And yet more shade.

...ain't it.

So yeah you are SCUM!! You die today!

[ItalianoVD]

VOTE: KittyTacky

You're making a terrible mistake, I'm Jester.

All the more reason for you to get voted fypov.

[ItalianoVD]

you ARE a rauthe alt right?

I am. What's that mean to you?

[ItalianoVD]

Spoiler:

Nero & O90 team? :O

y is this not town Nero?

I know town!Nero And all this right here...

Spoiler:

Is that something you actually believe b/c that seems like a silly thought.

scum!nero patronizes scumreads.

im town
i responded faster than anyone else

town!nero doesn't say he's town.

How many scums are here in large?

check ur pt

scum!nero shades

DeasVail - or maybe this one is mafia

Why

prob b/c its pretty basic to be wary of a neg utility claim b/c every once in a while scum do claim one and skate by.

day is young but I already want to kill half this thread. I really am a roman emporer!

Why are you answering questions not addressed to you? I'm sure I remember you calling this out in games I've played with you. town!nero doesn't

"want to kill half the thread"

!

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz


more votes on ItalianoVD

town!nero is NOT lazy!

JV, you are asking the silliest questions right now....

More patronizing?

Why

y not? its p4 and you are concerned about a wagon on ???? players lol

And yet more...

Nero what do you think about gamma?

in a not so surprising note, I don't really like him that much.

Didn't really like his soft defense of me in VOTE: 48 and I think his thought that there could be 3 scum is laughable. Would be funny if he was scum that slipped that his team was 3 wich means there'd be a traitor and guy true claimed his traitor role.

scum!nero thinks everything is amusing. And yet more shade.

...ain't it.

So yeah you are SCUM!! You die today!

I'm not following a meta-read of someone I am unaware the meta of and I am by no means going to put trust into someone that could very well be scum and just throw off a miselim as "oh guess I was wrong this time".

If this is serious, make a case on them based on the current game as people who do not know nero that much can actually add onto the case, refute some points etc. Actual team style deduction, ya know?

I'm not following a meta-read of someone I am unaware the meta of

you've played with me like 3 or 4 times or was this about VD? Also you seem like you are scum reading me in 108, no?

Maybe months, if not nearly a year ago. I had a decent time off of the site, nor do I remember how many people play except those that I talk with on a regular basis and even then I try not to meta-read as it's almost useless to say, nobody is going to follow a read that they also cannot follow and meta is an easy way to just cherry pick information.

It's a terrible route to go down.

Maybe as a supplementary case but definitely not anywhere near primary.

I'm not following a meta-read of someone I am unaware the meta of

you've played with me like 3 or 4 times or was this about VD? Also you seem like you are scum reading me in 108, no?

As a joke. I believe O90's tone is off so I do think they are scum at this moment

A joke? Yeah, no, I'm not buying that. You originally threw him out with over90. What was the reason you did that?

[ItalianoVD]

Geez I completely messed that up...

Spoiler:

Nero & O90 team? :O

y is this not town Nero?

I know town!Nero And all this right here...ain't it.

So yeah you are SCUM!! You die today!

I'm not following a meta-read of someone I am unaware the meta of and I am by no means going to put trust into someone that could very well be scum and just throw off a miselim as "oh guess I was wrong this time".

If this is serious, make a case on them based on the current game as people who do not know nero that much can actually add onto the case, refute some points etc. Actual team style deduction, ya know?

I'm not following a meta-read of someone I am unaware the meta of

you've played with me like 3 or 4 times or was this about VD? Also you seem like you are scum reading me in 108, no?

Maybe months, if not nearly a year ago. I had a decent time off of the site, nor do I remember how many people play except those that I talk with on a regular basis and even then I try not to meta-read as it's almost useless to say, nobody is going to follow a read that they also cannot follow and meta is an easy way to just cherry pick information.

It's a terrible route to go down.

Maybe as a supplementary case but definitely not anywhere near primary.

I'm not following a meta-read of someone I am unaware the meta of

you've played with me like 3 or 4 times or was this about VD? Also you seem like you are scum reading me in 108, no?

As a joke. I believe O90's tone is off so I do think they are scum at this moment

A joke? Yeah, no, I'm not buying that. You originally threw him out with over90. What was the reason you did that?

[ItalianoVD]

just making sure. Your play just seems so different. Not sure if that's an alt thing or an alignment thing.

Well Rathe is a complete antithesis to how I truly play, but the foundation has always remained the same.

[ItalianoVD]

Spoiler:

I know town!Nero And all this right here...

and yet you didn't vote me until I voted you. If you found my posting scummy prior to 58 why not call me out?

scum!nero patronizes scumreads.

Do I? But even if do I don't think I was patronizing cakez.

town!nero doesn't say he's town.

pretty sure this is untrue. I mean true, I don't yell I'm town ad nausem but the idea that I don't call myself town as town is ludicrous and I don't think you actually believe this.

scum!nero shades

PROVIDING SHADE IS A SERVICE!

but real talk

I feel like accusing someone of "shade" has prob lost its meaning these days. I and others are accused of "shade" all the time when it's just scumhunting. In this particular case, it was more of a cheeky comment b/c the how many scum are in a particular setup is or should be pretty easy to discern. Now over90 might actually be new and not an alt so I don't hold it against him but hamma's 3 in a 16 is

town!nero doesn't "want to kill half the thread"!

I'm always bloodlusty as town.

town!nero is NOT lazy!

no, I am not. What makes you think the leading poster is being lazy? "zzzzzzzz" is something I post when I think things are boring. For someone that claims to know me, it sure is odd that you didn't know that.

More patronizing?

I don't think you know what this word means.

And yet more...

it was a semi-serious RVS page 4 wagon with 2 votes on you and STD was making a big deal over it.

Honestly, this feels like a lazy OMGUS case where you just when through my ISO and put down "scumNero does this, scumNero does that."

I don't care about OMGUS, I think you're scum. Even though there hasn't been much of anything in this game so far, I feel town!you would've done more by now.

[ItalianoVD]

town!nero doesn't "want to kill half the thread"!

Just on the basis that I know for a fact this isn't true I'm inclined to say this case has no legs.

Idk how to quote from locked games but Find post 190 for reference

That game had more content, this game, not so much. You've played with Nero, do you townlean him right now?

[ItalianoVD]

that's trash reasoning

No it's not.

[ItalianoVD]

and sort of a backtrack? Your case on me was meta and it's been proven wrong and no one besides Kitty is following it and now your case is that I haven't done enough. Where was that reasoning earlier?

Probably by your partner RC.

They quoted one thing "town!nero doesn't want to kill half the thread" and threw out the rest of what I posted. Uh uh

[ItalianoVD]

and now your case is that I haven't done enough.

Wrong.

[ItalianoVD]

need to wait 2 weeks to elim std....

Is it still "like the force" with STD for you?

[ItalianoVD]

@Kitty: Are you a tonal reader when it comes to sorting people? Or something else?

[ItalianoVD]

I've already said I don't. But his alignment has little to do with the validity of your case.

If you don’t townread him then let it ride.

[ItalianoVD]

What are your thoughts on RC and Nash?

[ItalianoVD]

i like rcenigma, nero, and italiano for town

not sure what over90's deal is with me i've barely posted

What do you like about me, I mean aside from the obvious.

And you think it's t/t/t right now. That's really interesting.

You have anything on Nash or Carcalilly?

[ItalianoVD]

nashedpotato too can be town for now

Just saw it, my bad.

[ItalianoVD]

Uhhh what? We are playing Mafia.

If you don't townread Nero, then what are you doing trying to discredit and disprove suspicions going his way and pulling people away from pushing there. Even if null, the effort you went through to prove he is town just raises my antennas, regardless of his alignment.

[ItalianoVD]

something about the way italiano cased nero feels off to me

Nero feels off to me.

[ItalianoVD]

ItalianoVD is just a hard player to read in general. I have read two past games of his and he was a hard slot to sort for them. I just haven't seen him case someone so early though.

I'm curious what those two games were and if you planned on reading more.

[ItalianoVD]

just feels a bit weird you thought to check his old games but only checked 2 of them

Over90 obsession with mq.bosco feels off.

Wait, are you gonna answer Gamma here? You literally changed the subject.

[ItalianoVD]

i think you're trying to for it in a way that mafia wouldn't like why pick a fight with nero he's just going to shit on you

I'm interested in why we are just both town and that we weren't partners distancing.

i think nero's energy is townie but i dunno if i really know how to read him so take that with a grain of salt, but i'm not convinced by your case

I wasn't really expecting to "convince" anyone on meta, but this day is long and if I'm right, I'm sure it'll show for others to see as well. On the flip, if he is town, that'll show too.

carcalilly called me scum for no reason which is weird i don't really get the TMI post either i wouldn't say no to a carcalilly wagon

Okay. I'm still waiting for Carca to come back and give more insight into the game. She feels kinda trolly so far though so not sure how much we'll get from her.

[ItalianoVD]

Uhhh what? We are playing Mafia.

If you don't townread Nero, then what are you doing trying to discredit and disprove suspicions going his way and pulling people away from pushing there. Even if null, the effort you went through to prove he is town just raises my antennas, regardless of his alignment.

You're assuming that you're just Town here (which I like ngl) but also that I know that and your bad faith argument still lands on Nero!scum. It ignores that fmpov you can just be scum pushing Nero and how you go about pushing a slot is also a way to sort you.

If you had lied about any other slot and I knew about it the outcome would be the same, I'd call it out as bs.

Very fair, but here's the thing. You took one point, that I will admit to being incorrect on in the "town!nero never wants to kill half the list" and totally disregarded the rest of what I said. "Oh because this is wrong, everything is wrong as well" Like if I'm wrong, like you pointed out with the one post, why didn't you do it with the others. It makes me think you are selectively dissecting an argument with points you only want to talk about which scum like to do.

[ItalianoVD]

A joke? Yeah, no, I'm not buying that. You originally threw him out with over90. What was the reason you did that?

Are you dumb? You said in the previous whatever posts that they were scum, I added an emoji to show that it wasn't serious. Use some comprehension skills

Still don't buy it, but you do you.

[ItalianoVD]

is this not a change in reasoning? I mean maybe you could argue that it's something you are adding onto your meta case but I think that's BS. I think that no one was bitting on your meta case so you threw out some charged wording that I wasn't doing enough. I think I'm doing plenty.

Like I said to STD, I wasn't planning on convincing anyone because it's meta, but the day will tell everyone what alignment you are. For me you have not felt the same.

[ItalianoVD]

Most likely not. I'm not a fan of meta, but I was interested in some flavor of certain games. I just found it a bit off that you never cased anyone that early in either of the two games and both of them you were town in.

Meta can be manipulated. Think of meta like playdoh you can mold it into whatever you feel like. So it's not super predictable unless they are a player that has a transparent day/night meta.

Oh, so you were just doing busy work then? Like if you're gonna metadive, which I don't mind, do it right or don't do it all. You need a full picture of my meta because I am very different from game to game regardless of my alignment, but you

will

be able to see my alignment shine through in some way. There are people onsite who can be read me, Gamma being one of them.

I just found it odd that Gammemerald was fixated on Nerocain & then got fixated on again on me for reading some games.

Uhh, he wasn't actually fixated on that, he was asking you questions, which you haven't answered. Mine either actually.

[ItalianoVD]

Like if you're gonna metadive, which I don't mind, do it right or don't do it all.

Well according to RC, maybe I should take my own advice huh?

[ItalianoVD]

I'm interested in why we are just both town and that we weren't partners distancing.

this is a very weird comment but maybe you've started to realize that you bit off more than you can chew and are just trying to salvage things by accusing me of being your buddy?

No, you're missing it. STD thinks we're both town and his reason was because he doesn't think scum!me would go after you, but that would assume you are town because scum!me going after scum!you is null or town!me going after scum!you you lose. So him saying he doesn't think that scum!me would go after you makes me wonder if he knows we are both town. And he didn't give any reads on us before that post.

[ItalianoVD]

I never said I read the game for meta. I also never said I metadived you. So let’s not get too carried away with putting words in my mouth or twisting my thoughts.

I just said it felt off in terms of you casing NC very early.

[ItalianoVD]

You sound like

[ItalianoVD]

VOTE: Tako

[ItalianoVD]

It calls into question everything else you built in in your case.

Also not all of it is provable/disprovable from my personal games or interactions with Nero.

Does scum!Nero patronize scumreads? Idk maybe. Does town!Nero patronize scumreads? Yes, I briefly blacklisted him for this specifically.

I don't know if he says he's town as either alignment or if that even means anything at all. Calling out answering for others is like ...maybe you have something there but Its not part of your case and more like a one off statement.

The rest is really nothing. In the sense that it's nothing alignment indicative but it's also not worth speculating on your alignment making those claims.

I've played against scum!Nero 1 or 2 times I believe, well actually he was traitor one game so 2 full scumgames iirc and I've played against town!Nero maybe around the same number of times I wanna say. I don't have meta some others do, but I've seen enough that I'm comfortable with nero!scum.

[ItalianoVD]

Can we just not delve into setup spec when we have literally zero information as a whole.

Pretty sure Nero is town

Can you elaborate why?

[ItalianoVD]

but I've seen enough that I'm comfortable with nero!scum.

Why did you not answer my question?

My bad, what question was that? Thought I answered everything.

[ItalianoVD]

and yet you didn't vote me until I voted you. If you found my posting scummy prior to 58 why not call me out?

it was inside the spoiler of 124 but I know you didn't click on it b/c you didn't care about my responses b/c this is just an agenda driven push back.

Already answered in 154.

[ItalianoVD]

I never said I read the game for meta. I also never said I metadived you. So let’s not get too carried away with putting words in my mouth or twisting my thoughts.

I just said it felt off in terms of you casing NC very early.

Yeah that post is just gross. VOTE: takotsubo syndrome

Ignore that Nashed quote my phone has a bug

why was your only comment to bring up something someone else mentioned?

I mean I really didn't have much to comment on while catching up. Majority of what has been posted looks like it's been in jest aka the traitor/jester/mason claim.
This just very serious in like a very jokey time & felt very off.

This is such a scum thing to post

VOTE: takotsubo

VOTE: takotsubo syndrome

Uhh why are you voting here? Seems like you’re just jumping on because of others.

[ItalianoVD]

I know VD replaced into the game so it might explain things, IDK but I think the tone here is more forceful and it's like he's overcompensating.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=89392

You already mentioned me replacing in so don’t get why this was posted. Doing the same thing as Tako. I’ve been forceful as town and I’ve taken a back seat and I’ve done the same thing as scum, so don’t look at that. I need people to look at

why

I’m being forceful here,

why

I think your playing different and why I think you’re scum. I’ll go more in-depth when need be, but not now.

…also, his case was just trash and it annoys me a bit that you guys are just letting him skate by with such nonsense

Or maybe they are thinking about it and seeing that you

are

playing a bit different than normal town Nero.

[ItalianoVD]

Last game I pushed several people early and they were all town. I don't want to repeat my mistakes.

honestly, this doesn't make me feel any better lol. I mean maybe I could see you go "oh my reads were really bad last game so I'm going try to let others lead." but then I think there's a good chunk of possible scum motivation in that.

This is a good point I use this excuse as scum all the time

Eh okay, but I really think it’s null. I’ve used it and seen it used as both scum and town.

[ItalianoVD]

@mq.bosco: Are you new to the site? What’s your experience at Mafia?

[ItalianoVD]

Do you have anything of your own to add to this vote?

No.

Typical NK15.

So this is normal for NK15. Can anyone else confirm?

[ItalianoVD]

@mq.bosco: Are you new to the site? What’s your experience at Mafia?

Oh…just saw your join date.

I’ll be back later.

[ItalianoVD]

if I'm right

you say. Seems like you are trying to deescalate. Not sure why you'd make a case that you didn't think would "convince" anyone.

Well yeah,

if I’m right

. It’s not 100%, I don’t have a guilty on you, so I could be wrong, but I’m not going in banking on that 15-20% chance of being wrong.

[ItalianoVD]

You were just in a game with him. Like why you pretending you weren't.

I'm just saying I have seen NK15 vote like this so it's not a scum tell because it's not something out of the normal for him.

I'm just annoyed at VD acting like he's new to playing with NK15 when he clearly isn't.

Again not using meta just stating that it's an NAI for me because it's just something I have seen NK15 do.

Yeah I’ve played with NK15; doesn’t mean I know how to read him.

My very first game on the site, I played with NK and thought he was scum. The second game I’ve played with him was the last game you are referencing, where I thought he was scum. And then there’s this game.

I don’t know the intricacies of NK. I just know he plays in games and I usually scumread him, hence why I’m asking others if the way he is voting or how he voted was ai because it looks scummy to me.

[ItalianoVD]

Why's that supposed to be a problem?

Umm, it’s scummy.

[ItalianoVD]

Lol, who alt slipped in 305? Who here is Vasex?

[ItalianoVD]

I see someone talked about why Tako? I’ll talk about why I voted for Tako later when I get home.

[ItalianoVD]

Oh…just saw your join date.

Yup, and small experience.

I would like to hear more from you. How small is your experience? Where did you play before and/or how did you find the site?

[ItalianoVD]

Or...are you an alt?



If you are no need to reveal.

[ItalianoVD]

Btw, std says that italiano is town. So between 2 of them std is more mafia, than italiano

This actually makes sense, well fmpov.

[ItalianoVD]

Yeah sorry peeps, I won't be as active as I want to be I'm dealing with some personal issues right now, but I do wanna get this out.

So I've been trying to consolidate so I have a direction and idea of where I'm going. I've just gone through the ISOs of everyone; also taking into account my interactions and their interactions with others.

Carcalilly, Kitty, SirCakez

Nash, Gamma, Enchant, mq.bosco, DeasVail

over90, RCEnigma, StD, NK15

Tako

Nero

*

blue

- strong townlean, *

green

- medium townlean, *

yellow

- weak townlean, *

brown

- weak scumlean, *

orange

- medium scumlean, *

red

- strong scumlean

Unfortunately, no one has taken the strong townread spot which is kinda interesting to me because I can usually semi townbin one or two players, but I guess there is still alot of time in this day for me to do so. I'll try to be back later if I can.

[ItalianoVD]

VOTE: NK15

[ItalianoVD]

This NK15 wagon feels like it exists solely because people don't like the Tako wagon

Solely? Do you think we just rolled a dice and chose someone at random? Tako is eh, but a case based off being awful at metagaming < putting someone who doesn't even seem to be trying to play the game in the spot. I doubt the entire tako wagon will did out just for this and multiwagons help the gamestate I reckon.

This.

[ItalianoVD]

And nothing has changed for me re: Nero

Notice Nero is planted nicely, still on his RVS vote from pg2, and yet seems to be coaching from the sidelines instead of in the trenches trying to actually figure out the game.

Throwing out shade here, little fun comments there. I’m telling you people, this is NOT town!Nero

He doesn’t believe I’m scum either, it’s just easy to park here, he literally hasn’t changed his vote since pg2.

And ask him who scum is and it’s gonna be the people suspicious of him and Gamma, which I don’t get.

There has been multiple players and wagons to dig into and yet he wants to stay on me, Kitty, and Gamma. He also wants to shade people for fence sitting and yet that is all he has done for anyone not named Italiano, Kitty, Gamma.

[ItalianoVD]

I’ll try to respond to everything pointed my way today, no promises though.

[ItalianoVD]

Thoughts on dann?

I hope that’s not it. I didn’t really have a problem with the vote. He must think you’re scum because he didn’t even let DV comment before voting. What I did have a problem with was out of everything to comment on he chose to hard defend Kitty. Like I said maybe he is catching up, but it’s not impressive. I need to see more before I place him anywhere in my reads.

[ItalianoVD]

go place std on e-1, please
is it so hard?

Italiano, why dont you vote STD?

I am open to vote there since it’s possible he is scum, but where is everyone on that? You gotta ask everyone else as well.

[ItalianoVD]

Is a total nonanswer.

Okay let’s talk about it.

As I said, I couldn’t careless about OMGUS. You can throw it out there all you want it won’t make it true. Lol, people onsite throw out this claim ad nausem. Your vote on me literally had nothing to do with me scumreading you at all. And why in the world would I feel some type of way about an RVS vote especially the second one; you must really think I’m that weakminded.

[ItalianoVD]

I’m actually liking the votecount here. Competing wagons can give us info. Look at those vanities.

[ItalianoVD]

it may have been a semi-serious RVS vote at the time but it's a full blown scum read now.

I wonder why.

And ask him who scum is and it’s gonna be the people suspicious of him and Gamma, which I don’t get.

Who is suspicious of me besides RCE? Didn't know I was scum reading him. Why would I be suspicious of Gamma's attackers?

My bad, that was worded very wrong. It’s supposed to say:

“And ask him who scum is and it’s gonna be the people suspicious of him(myself and Kitty) and Gamma, who he is suspicious of, which I don’t get.”

Is a total nonanswer.

Okay let’s talk about it.

As I said, I couldn’t careless about OMGUS. You can throw it out there all you want it won’t make it true. Lol, people onsite throw out this claim ad nausem. Your vote on me literally had nothing to do with me scumreading you at all. And why in the world would I feel some type of way about an RVS vote especially the second one; you must really think I’m that weakminded.

ok, I am going to spell this out very slowly. OMGUS is null b/c both alignments do it. I mean, I certainly am biased and think that OMGUS is on the scummy side of things but I am aware that town does it as well. You called my 47 and 51 scummy but you never called me out in your 55 or 56. That's what I'm asking about.

Huh, I think you quoted the wrong posts. And your question is weird. You want to know why I didn’t call you out sooner? Because I wasn’t here. Unless I’m missing what you’re actually asking, your question makes no sense.

[ItalianoVD]

also if tako is your #2 "scumread" why leave a bigger wagon for a smaller one with less suspicion?

Lol, that’s like asking if I’d rather eat a burrito or taco (pun intended) If I’m hungry it doesn’t matter.

I mirror Carca’s sentiment on the competing wagons and it’s gonna make people who are vanity voting right now have to make a decision.

[ItalianoVD]

also if tako is your #2 "scumread" why leave a bigger wagon for a smaller one with less suspicion?

Lol, that’s like asking if I’d rather eat a burrito or taco (pun intended) If I’m hungry it doesn’t matter.

I mirror Carca’s sentiment on the competing wagons and it’s gonna make people who are vanity voting right now have to make a decision.

I'll answer it better though. If Tako is Vasex then I don't actually wanna vote them off, at least not yet, and NK15 is a better vote as their ISO and actions are scummier, not to mention there is traction there. I want to contribute to a wagon that has a chance to be pushed through and one that has a good chance of being scum. Oh and one I feel comfortable voting.

[ItalianoVD]

This is in response to 491, so please follow along.

I made my first post in 27 which was a tongue in cheek comment about RVS.

Both Carca and SirCakez respond to it. Haven’t read the thread.

2 hours later I respond to SirCakez and holla at Gamma. Still haven’t read the thread.

There’s a pagetop from Carca, a joke. I respond with 55 and 56, still haven’t read the thread.

7 hours pass from the time I post 55 / 56 and when I post 92. I, within that time, had decided to get serious and read the game from page 1 and that’s when you start pinging my antennas with the comments and how you were interacting with the different players, etc.

Another 4 hours later I respond to you with why I think you’re scum in 106.

These are the events and how they transpired sequentially, so again what point are you trying to make about 55/56. I don’t think you are quoting the right posts.

[ItalianoVD]

These are the events and how they transpired sequentially, so again what point are you trying to make about 55/56. I don’t think you are quoting the right posts.

[ItalianoVD]

Okay, I have some time to be around and get fully caught up and try to cover the things I missed. Anyone else on?

[ItalianoVD]

I need to update my reads a bit and give more of what's going on in my head.

Carcalilly, Kitty, SirCakez, NK15, Gamma

Nash, Enchant, DeasVail, Tako, mq.bosco

over90, RCEnigma, StD, Dannflor

Nero

*

blue

- strong townlean, *

green

- medium townlean, *

yellow

- weak townlean, *

brown

- weak scumlean, *

orange

- medium scumlean, *

red

- strong scumlean

I was weakly townreading Gamma just because. I had to ask myself if there is anything that is making it weak and there really wasn't so I moved him up to medium townlean. I'm always hesitant to fully townread Gamma but most of the time I just choose to do so and hope I'm right. It feels like that here.

NK15 could possibly be town as well as I really don't think scum would be that obvious as to jump onto a wagon so blatantly. I know it's wifom, I tend to do that a lot when it comes to scum, but I don't think a player like NK15 who is experienced would be that glaring. I mean Tako

was

scummy and it makes sense for a town!NK to jump onto a scummy wagon.

I moved Tako up. There was something both he and SirCakez said that I don't really think scum would say:

ItalianoVD is just a hard player to read in general

. I have read two past games of his and he was a hard slot to sort for them. I just haven't seen him case someone so early though.

I don't have a read on Italiano yet his posting style makes him hard for me to read

As you can see in my signature, town find me hard to read regardless of my alignment. Scum obviously don't. Like they

could

say that as scum, but they don't need to, they would just jump on me. So those posts are gonna keep them in my townbin for now.

I've kinda already said my piece on Dannflor. His entrance was pretty questionable just picking out Kitty, but was okay with the vote on RC. RC really went to bat for Nero and even admitted it and Nero was okay with it, but when Gamma slightly defends Nero, he (Nero) scumreads him (Gamma). They could possibly be partners. Would scum!RC admit to defending his partner but then say he doesn't townread him.

I will note I'm doing a lot of Nero defending and I don't even townread them. The slots coming at him are just being slimy.

I think the answer is yes.

I'm gonna wait until SirCakez returns to respond to StD's case, but my eyes are there.

over90 is weird, but honestly he could be town, now that I know I was mistaken with the Vasex identity. Could he be StD's scumpartner? It's possible, they haven't really interacted.

[ItalianoVD]

@ItalianoVD, few years ago I played mafia in client – like browser games with ~20 mins for one game, ranking, etc. And that was the time I played mafia in forum - maybe 2-3 games easy difficulty, but then abandoned both. Fortnight ago returned to the old forum, tried to play again – it was bad idea: for some, I really dunno them, reasons I have not calm talks, I have only conflicts with players (don't worry, I'm not a monster, I think that so happens, cause in forum formed community, which no need new players). One of forum's players suggested this site. So nope, I'm not a twink, this is my first game here.

Were you generally active because this game is kinda a rough one for you. Perhaps a culture shock?

[ItalianoVD]

Also, note that his vote is currently resting on his town read b/c he's waiting around for town to start a new wagon instead of being proactive.

Oh snap you’re right, I completely forgot.

VOTE: Nero

Join me in voting out scum my peeps.

[ItalianoVD]

My vote doesn’t change. Let’s not make the mistake of letting scum!Nero slip through our fingers!

[ItalianoVD]

btw, italiano and nero - is it possible that you are both towns? just think some time about it, just in case. bc if you are townies, it is difficult to understand the game through your fighting, when you are considering each other the most scum. if you are so sure, then we have at least 1 scum between two of you and it will be useful to check any of you using a cop, for example italiano, to understand both your sides with 1 shot. Right? And to eliminate someone else, smb who is more lurking

I've actually truly given this some thought, asking myself multiple times if I'm just wrong and tunneling. I've played games before where I was so sure someone was scum and they ended up being town. Porkens in particuar in one of my early Newbie games. However, the big difference between those players and Nero is I didn't know those players and was just going off my mafia experience. Players have different ticks and idiosyncrasies that if you don't know them can pass for scummy behavior or what looks like outright scum.

I've played multiple games with both alignments of Nero and I have a fairly good idea of the meta there. I know it's not foolproof and I know others may have a better feel for Nero, as you saw with RC when I was proven wrong on one of the pieces in my case, but even with that I strongly believe that Nero is playing like he was in Sibyl's Elegy and Mini Normal 2267

In contrast look at Large Normal 233

[ItalianoVD]

Notice Nero is planted nicely, still on his RVS vote from pg2, and yet seems to be coaching from the sidelines instead of in the trenches trying to actually figure out the game.

Throwing out shade here, little fun comments there. I’m telling you people, this is NOT town!Nero

But what

is

town!Nero then? I'm not confident that Nero is town here, but I'm used to him throwing shade. What would be different about him as town?

It's not always

that

a player is throwing shade, but

how

and

why

they are. Like the shade that he threw, has he even tried to pursue?

[ItalianoVD]

meta, meta... u know, any good player knows his own meta too. he knows how to fake it,if it is necessary for him

Of course this, I've kept that in mind, but why would a townie need to fake his meta?

[ItalianoVD]

What on Earth is this?

[ItalianoVD]

And just when I said I thought you were town, you do this.

[ItalianoVD]

whst do you think about nk15 now? is it still green for you?

Uhh, I really don't even know what to say. It doesn't make me feel good about it.

[ItalianoVD]

There's a lot to unpack here. Geez, lol. First, Gamma's vote was a real vote? That's news to me, I had no idea. I thought it was RVS and he was saying what's up. Gamma can confirm, but if so it doesn't change my read on him. Town!Gamma should be scumreading me, if he doesn't that actually makes me more suspicious.

The one major thing about your post that doesn't make sense to me is how you arrive at lhf Nero, given the several scumlean posts you had.

How many scums are here in large?

check ur pt

Why did you shade here, Nero?

DeasVail - or maybe this one is mafia

Why

prob b/c its pretty basic to be wary of a neg utility claim b/c every once in a while scum do claim one and skate by.

day is young but I already want to kill half this thread. I really am a roman emporer!

This is quite scummy. Shade towards neg utility (Possible vs probable)

DeasVail - or maybe this one is mafia

Why

prob b/c its pretty basic to be wary of a neg utility claim b/c every once in a while scum do claim one and skate by.

day is young but I already want to kill half this thread. I really am a roman emporer!

I don't recall asking you. You may have given them a free way out of answering it properly.

Correct. Another reason to scumread Nero.

Why

y not? its p4 and you are concerned about a wagon on ???? players lol

Good point.

VOTE: Nero

This is not town!Nero.

Nero is SCUM!!!

A bit exaggeration here...

y is this not town Nero?

Strange question.

cakes with the scummy move of voting my dv enabler

why's that scummy?

Nero what do you think about gamma?

in a not so surprising note, I don't really like him that much.

Didn't really like his soft defense of me in VOTE: 48 and I think his thought that there could be 3 scum is laughable. Would be funny if he was scum that slipped that his team was 3 wich means there'd be a traitor and guy true claimed his traitor role.

Why go for funny? Is this something you believe or not?

Yeah I don't feel this Nero is particularly similar to his town play.

I won't vote him so early, but I'll scrutinize his posts more.

Partners?

?????

joking about being a jester is dumb

Partners??

y is this not town Nero?

I know town!Nero And all this right here...

Spoiler:

Is that something you actually believe b/c that seems like a silly thought.

scum!nero patronizes scumreads.

im town
i responded faster than anyone else

town!nero doesn't say he's town.

How many scums are here in large?

check ur pt

scum!nero shades

DeasVail - or maybe this one is mafia

Why

prob b/c its pretty basic to be wary of a neg utility claim b/c every once in a while scum do claim one and skate by.

day is young but I already want to kill half this thread. I really am a roman emporer!

Why are you answering questions not addressed to you? I'm sure I remember you calling this out in games I've played with you. town!nero doesn't

"want to kill half the thread"

!

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz


more votes on ItalianoVD

town!nero is NOT lazy!

JV, you are asking the silliest questions right now....

More patronizing?

Why

y not? its p4 and you are concerned about a wagon on ???? players lol

And yet more...

Nero what do you think about gamma?

in a not so surprising note, I don't really like him that much.

Didn't really like his soft defense of me in VOTE: 48 and I think his thought that there could be 3 scum is laughable. Would be funny if he was scum that slipped that his team was 3 wich means there'd be a traitor and guy true claimed his traitor role.

scum!nero thinks everything is amusing. And yet more shade.

...ain't it.

So yeah you are SCUM!! You die today!

Interesting post, but all based on meta without backing it up.

Spoiler:

I know town!Nero And all this right here...

and yet you didn't vote me until I voted you. If you found my posting scummy prior to 58 why not call me out?

scum!nero patronizes scumreads.

Do I? But even if do I don't think I was patronizing cakez.

town!nero doesn't say he's town.

pretty sure this is untrue. I mean true, I don't yell I'm town ad nausem but the idea that I don't call myself town as town is ludicrous and I don't think you actually believe this.

scum!nero shades

PROVIDING SHADE IS A SERVICE!

but real talk

I feel like accusing someone of "shade" has prob lost its meaning these days. I and others are accused of "shade" all the time when it's just scumhunting. In this particular case, it was more of a cheeky comment b/c the how many scum are in a particular setup is or should be pretty easy to discern. Now over90 might actually be new and not an alt so I don't hold it against him but hamma's 3 in a 16 is

town!nero doesn't "want to kill half the thread"!

I'm always bloodlusty as town.

town!nero is NOT lazy!

no, I am not. What makes you think the leading poster is being lazy? "zzzzzzzz" is something I post when I think things are boring. For someone that claims to know me, it sure is odd that you didn't know that.

More patronizing?

I don't think you know what this word means.

And yet more...

it was a semi-serious RVS page 4 wagon with 2 votes on you and STD was making a big deal over it.

Honestly, this feels like a lazy OMGUS case where you just when through my ISO and put down "scumNero does this, scumNero does that."

Good point.

so kitty r u gonna engage me or are you just trying to keep me at arms length?

Don't like this, why should kitty do that? Scummy.

and now your case is that I haven't done enough.

Wrong.

I think Italiano looks like scum looking for an easy mislim(Nero). Their case is built on sand, and not in a way I'd expect from a wrong town. It is just too wrong.

How you end up where you end up for Nero is very strange.

[ItalianoVD]

Also when has Nero ever been lhf?

[ItalianoVD]

Why do you keep asking questions I already answer expecting a different one?

[ItalianoVD]

Why should town Gamma scum read you?

It's not that he should it's that if I feel there isn't an attempt to sort me truthfully or just lazily throws out a townread it pings my radar. If I'm scumread me for fair reasons then what can I do, but try to be better.

[ItalianoVD]

If you felt like he wasn't trying to sort you why do you have him so up high in your town list?

Never said this.

[ItalianoVD]

Here i'll try.

[ItalianoVD]

you ARE a rauthe alt right?

I am. What's that mean to you?

Explain this.

Simple. I wanted to know what it meant, why he brought it up, and if it changed anything.

just making sure. Your play just seems so different. Not sure if that's an alt thing or an alignment thing.

Well Rathe is a complete antithesis to how I truly play, but the foundation has always remained the same.

What does that mean?

Anyone who has played against Rathe knows what that means. What I mean by antithesis is self explanatory. If you've played with both accounts you know there are major differences. Anyone who wants to talk more in depth about it just pm me.

[ItalianoVD]

Gamma said that you felt "off" but then landed on a town read for ???? reasons.

Gotta ask Gamma.

[ItalianoVD]

These are the events and how they transpired sequentially,

so again what point are you trying to make about 55/56. I don’t think you are quoting the right posts.

[ItalianoVD]

@Kitty: Are you a tonal reader when it comes to sorting people? Or something else?

[ItalianoVD]

If you felt like he wasn't trying to sort you why do you have him so up high in your town list?

Never said this.

mostly yeah...

but you did say...

Town!Gamma should be scumreading me, if he doesn't that actually makes me more suspicious.

It's not that he should it's that if I feel there isn't an attempt to sort me truthfully or just lazily throws out a townread it pings my radar.

Gamma said you were off and then plopped down a town read on you. Do you feel like he's trying to sort you? If not then why have you not expressed suspicion of him?

192 - This is the first mentioned suspicion of my case as far as I can tell. If 30 is a real vote then I guess that would be the first suspicion and if so it wouldn't have been because of my casing you, but some of my earlier posts.

278 - Here he says it's overzealous, but not scum-indicative yet. Then he answers your goofy comment in 288.

357 - He answers you here again and explains more of why my push felt off, which is fair.

By 547, enough had happened in the game and from me where it is not out of the realm of possibility that he could townread me.

It really feels like you are just trying to force us to see each other as scum and that you have nowhere else to go so you are not trying to lose your scumreads. You did the same thing with Carca and even mentioned a team of me, Gamma, and Carca. If you're town, why are you not trying to work with us? You're wrong about me and I believe you're wrong about Gamma and Carca.

[ItalianoVD]

You had said that 47 and 51 were scummy. I questioned why you didn't call me out in your 55, 56. Your explanation is that you weren't reading the game, despite posting, which I find suspicious but eh... I mean, I guess you gotta push back some kinda way, right?

(sigh) You're not avoiding, just not actually answering. Okay let's try this one last time.

In 106 is when I mentioned 47 and 51, along with 58, 70, 79, 85, 86, and 98. You're trying to frame it like I only had 47 and 51 in my case in which it would make sense for you to question this.

55 and 56 is me responding to Carca's dv joke due to a

pagetop

. It's literally the laziest thing to respond to. You not believing that I didn't read the game is a personal problem, I don't have a reason to lie and have been totally honest and transparent. I hadn't fully invested in the game at that point and that's it. You focusing on 47 and 51 is weird given the rest of the posts in my case and my explanation of why it was the way it was. If you were town you'd be satisfied in closing that hole.

[ItalianoVD]

Your explanation is that you weren't reading the game, despite posting, which I find suspicious but eh

Also I doubt these are mutually exclusive and I think you know this given your experience here. Lots of players post without reading, just like players read without posting.

[ItalianoVD]

Back from V/LA but still have to work my 8 hour shift before I catch up. I have been reading here and there but I haven't been able to follow up without the context.

This page has me think italiano is scum, they've been adamant about my post from earlier being scummy or whatever they said and here they have me as a town-lean? I didn't post after that, seems fake as shite.

Will catch up after my shift.

I figured you were town given your abrasive nature and don't get excited it's a weak townlean.

[ItalianoVD]

Back from V/LA but still have to work my 8 hour shift before I catch up. I have been reading here and there but I haven't been able to follow up without the context.

This page has me think italiano is scum, they've been adamant about my post from earlier being scummy or whatever they said and here they have me as a town-lean? I didn't post after that, seems fake as shite.

Will catch up after my shift.

I figured you were town given your abrasive nature and don't get excited it's a weak townlean.

Hey don't copy I did that first...

Spoiler:

You sound like

[ItalianoVD]

And no definitely not scum.

[ItalianoVD]

I'm not particularly convinced that Enchant is scum here. Possible sure but I don't agree that their posts are necessarily scum-indicative

Because he probably isn't.

Nero has successfully convinced me that I may have been giving Italiano too much of a free pass for high content and attitude, but I'm still not convinced that he's the right way to go atm.

Seriously? How? Smh.

NK15's mega-post in isolation does not do much for me, while Dannflor and NashedPotato remain as tasty backup options.

Tasty??

[ItalianoVD]

Simple. I wanted to know what it meant, why he brought it up, and if it changed anything.

I knew you were a Rathe alt. Your entrance just seemed very unRathe like a pinged me a little so I deff thought it was worth an early vote.

Did you read the part where I said Rathe is the antithesis to my main?

[ItalianoVD]

Once you finally answered me and told me that you weren't reading then that was the end of it FMPOV.

You are the one not dropping it and making things an issue. I think your "question" is just weak little pushback.

Really. That was the end of it?

Spoiler:

lol

I wasn't reading the thread

is just such a convenient response. It's a hard swallow given that you were actively responding to a joke. I can't "prove" anything and coincidences do happen but I just don't really believe you when you say that you weren't reading the game and that your vote wasn't retaliation.

These are the events and how they transpired sequentially, so again what point are you trying to make about 55/56. I don’t think you are quoting the right posts.

this is such gaslighting. I think my point is plenty clear and you are just going "but I wasn't reading the game, I just happened to start reading the game shortly after you called for more votes on me." as if that trumps everything.

[ItalianoVD]

yes but that doesn't really change anything for me b/c I feel your actions since getting voted were scummy. There's also that weirdness of voting nk15 when the tako wagon was bigger wich was a little strange and you haven't commented on it.

I answered it in 478, you just didn't like the answer. Shows you're only reading what you want.

[ItalianoVD]

When it comes to Nero there are only two theories at this point.

Theory #1

- He actually is town and my meta tell was mad wrong and we are miles apart in connection and understanding.

Theory #2

- I am right and he is in fact scum and the resistance I seem to feel around him when it comes to logic missing from his side of the conversation and getting any traction on him is because that resistance is coming from scum.

There is no theory where we are partners or I'm scum tunneling on town!nero, because I'm not scum, period. If people were paying attention they would have known that by now.

[ItalianoVD]

I'm not particularly convinced that Enchant is scum here. Possible sure but I don't agree that their posts are necessarily scum-indicative

Because he probably isn't.

Nero has successfully convinced me that I may have been giving Italiano too much of a free pass for high content and attitude, but I'm still not convinced that he's the right way to go atm.

Seriously? How? Smh.

NK15's mega-post in isolation does not do much for me, while Dannflor and NashedPotato remain as tasty backup options.

Tasty??

Is there any particular response you were hoping from me here?

Just respond honestly bruh, like what are we doing here? You don't have to actually answer the last one and we pretty much agree on the first one, but I definitely wanna get an answer to the second one.

[ItalianoVD]

sorry I've been kinda head out of it

can someone give me a small pointer on whats happened and I'll get off my ass and check it ty ty

Not sure what you missed, but not much has happened.

-The same old Italiano v Nero clash.
-NK15 posted possibly the largest wallpost I've ever seen, by quoting almost everything in game from page 1.
-Still haven't gotten anything more from Dann, Nash, and bosco.

I think that's all in general terms.

[ItalianoVD]

You're wrong about me and I believe you're wrong about Gamma and Carca.

If I'm scum then I'd know the alignments of you three and I wouldn't be "wrong." Seems like a strange way to talk to a scum read, no?

Not really. I mentioned that the strength of my scumread can never be 100%, unless it's a guilty, so of course I'm gonna have that in my mind.

It really feels like you are just trying to force us to see each other as scum

am I?

You were the one that wrote 554 and 566. My line of questioning was valid and 557 was a deflect.

So, if you're town, you didn't find it weird that NK pretty much was scumleaning you to arrive at lhf Nero. Scum!you probably doesn't care because it's of no substance to you. You seem overly okay with everyone else's scumminess and either convincing yourself or just scumming it up that I'm the target.

never played /w nero before but I'm struggling to see scum!italiano being the one to push it, feels too ballsy to me

I really feel like this is horrible reasoning.

Ngl, I saw it more as an attempt to get the game rolling from its semi-beginning state than anything else, which is why I feel alright about it. I'll admit I kinda disregarded the content of it since it seemed to me like pure metagaming which idk anything about.

and I didn't really like this super generous spin she gave you.

Why not? Is townreading me such a bad thing?

What's the difference between you calling RCE my buddy earlier and me saying that Cara would make sense on a scumteam w/ u?

Evidence vs conjecture.

not about you but 414 is also superbad. It most defiantly was a possible fencesit on Gamma and I could totally see a scum Cara just denfending for the town cred.

414 is Carca talking about RC. In any event, why couldn't it be town!Carca townreading a town!Gamma?

[ItalianoVD]

And we're not eliminating Gamma today.

[ItalianoVD]

Oh I just saw that he is getting replaced. Seriously?

[ItalianoVD]

Just vote Dragons, everyone had/has suspicions there. We consolidate there and that has more of a chance of going through than the others.

[ItalianoVD]

Spoiler:

vote count 1.4 !

takotsubo syndrome (3):

SirCakez, Gamma Emerald, KittyTacky,

Not Known 15 (3):

Carcalilly, DeasVail, over90

ItalianoVD (2):

Nero Cain, Not Known 15

Gamma Emerald (2):

takotsubo syndrome, RCEnigma

KittyTacky (1):

mq.bosco

mq.bosco (1):

NashedPotato

RCEnigma (1):

Dannflor

SirCakez (1):

Save The Dragons

Nero Cain (1):

ItalianoVD

not voting (1):

Enchant

with 16 alive, it takes 9 to cause someone to be ever so slowly slowly locked up in their own house. day 1 ends in (expired on 2022-06-05 13:31:22)

modorator notes

• cakez is VLA until monday

[/quote]
Wow, all talk and not even a wagon there.
VOTE: Save the Dragons

[ItalianoVD]

Nah, we won't vote STD, because it is so interesting to see how you are playing your astonishment about things, that should make your green townies not so green anymore.... but u still want to elim std...

Yeah, so just as I expected your StD read was nothing.

[ItalianoVD]

I’m assuming it’s because VD is using meta for some reads but ignoring meta for others

(@nero)

Where is this happening?

[ItalianoVD]

Your play feels very showy and I don’t know if you believe what you’re saying. You might and maybe that’ll become clearer idk but I’m not sure why you’re so BOTHERED by me thinking I was maybe being too generous in townreading you.

I mean okay, can't really say anything there because that's your perception and I've heard that before. You said he convinced you. How? Where at?

[ItalianoVD]

But like, an STD wagon is such a cop out and Italiano can't justify the vote from a game state perspective because scum can't be controlling the wagons via resistance AND simultaneously just not playing (std).

How when multiple people have scumread or still do scumread him? Make it make sense.

[ItalianoVD]

I was weakly townreading Gamma just because.

Is there anything in this game that made you feel like Gamma was town?

Gamma has gotten harder to read since I believe he changed the way he plays the game, but in any event he was playing similar to last game where he was town. Ironically I was scumreading him there after having a strong townread for his predecessor. Come to find out, I was heavily pocketed so...

[ItalianoVD]

@Nero: Let's say by chance the strong scumreads we have on each other are actually just bad tunnels from us both, due to us not truly knowing how we play; and we are actually both town. Where could/could we go from there?

[ItalianoVD]

what dd you think of Gammas content this game?

I didn't have a problem with it. When he slightly defended you, while it's scummy in a vacuum and I don't like when people do it, I've seen town!Gamma do it. So people have to forgive me if I don't automatically think scum when he does it.

[ItalianoVD]

So I expect you to actually be reading Nero’s posts if you think he’s scum. There was a post where Nero was clearly engaging me on my read of you that would be, in my mind, the most obvious source of Nero convincing me. Why do you appear so clueless on that front?

I have read his posts so I'm assuming you're talking about 515, you never answered him. He convinced you by only asking questions?

[ItalianoVD]

Post 515, for reference

Oh yeah, well there you go.

[ItalianoVD]

Why start an STD wagon, aren't there like 2 votes on Dann? Like you keep saying that you want to be on a wagon that goes through. Well so does scum. Like I guess you could argue that if you were scum you wouldn't say that out loud scum has the same motivation to want a wagon to go through.

I wanted to know if over90 was serious mainly since he had been protesting a good portion of the game.

[ItalianoVD]

So I expect you to actually be reading Nero’s posts if you think he’s scum. There was a post where Nero was clearly engaging me on my read of you that would be, in my mind, the most obvious source of Nero convincing me. Why do you appear so clueless on that front?

I have read his posts so I'm assuming you're talking about 515, you never answered him. He convinced you by only asking questions?

I feel that there was slightly more than questions to Nero’s post, but yes. I don’t think it’s so unusual that being asked imploring questions makes someone realise gaps in their logic or false assumptions.

Do you think that’s unusual?

Alright, that's fair. And no not unusual, but I'm beginning to see that our playstyles are just different.

[ItalianoVD]

Hey welcome to the game Elsa. I think we’ve only played one game but good to have you here. I townread Gamma so hopefully I’m not wrong.

[ItalianoVD]

I’ve skimmed the last few pages. I have no problem being checked. On my old/current site I was usually one of the ones who got checked night 1, so no problem there. I also come from a place where we vote out the quiet ones and check the loud ones. That would cover the lurking wolf/scum as well as the open wolfer.

[ItalianoVD]

@SirCakez @Kitty @NK15

What do you guys think of Nero claiming pr only

after

there wasn’t traction on me and claimed he will check me?

What do you think of over90’s presence in the game?

What do you think of DeasVail? Now or still?

When you guys get the chance of course.

[ItalianoVD]

Good to have you Titus. Hope you’re town and hope you can clean up your slot because it was very meh.

[ItalianoVD]

ok i need other opinions. we can elim bosco for her position (nk15 and gamma are towns), and then we can elim elsa jay, if she survives the night as claimed pr.
what do you think?

What about Nero’s claim? Shouldn’t he get the same as Elsa?

[ItalianoVD]

When did he even claim again? And you sure it wasn't one of those joke claims that happens once in awhile?

Maybe, but he mentioned it more than once, so I’m not sure. It’s why I’m asking.

[ItalianoVD]

i feel stupid, could you please tell me where nero claims? i cannot find it. it seems i missed that moment

Spoiler:

ok, I get it. No voting VD till I get a gulity. ok


VOTE: gamma

y am I voting Gamma or why does this town require a guilty b4 we flip obv scum?

although I was already planning on VD

[ItalianoVD]

ITT: VD is afraid of pr Nero

Definitely not, especially if you are scum pr.

[ItalianoVD]

What do you guys think of Nero claiming pr only afterthere wasn’t traction on me and claimed he will check me?

What are you thinking here, that I claimed pr so I wouldn't get voted out when there was very very little pressure on me? Like is this an actual thought process?

Yeah that’s the

only

reason to claim pr.

I asked simply because I want others people’s view on it. And even though I @ those few I figured others would weigh in on it. Trust me I am so far from “freaking out”.

[ItalianoVD]

It’s like “come on guys let’s kill Italiano, isn’t he scummy?”

“Yeah, yeah he is, let’s kill him.” Actually wait no let’s kill X, Y, Z instead.”

“What, you don’t want to kill Italiano, but what if use my pr powers. Then you’ll believe me because I’ll have a guilty. Now you’ll follow me, I’m a pr.”

[ItalianoVD]

y not give your own view instead of soliciting others views that you could just latch onto?

I have my view on it.

[ItalianoVD]

sounds like a joke
well, i missed that
in that case bad claiming of elsa becomes a bit better (more understandable)
but ugh, i dont know
it is better to ignore all of that
they have no reasons to claim

They as in Nero or they as in Elsa?

[ItalianoVD]

I think that's a horrible transcript of the thread.

I mean it's not like there was a big wagon on you and I jumped off, it was that there was NO traction on you and then I said that it's going to take a guilty to get you out and then I consolidated on Gamma.

Lol and then when there’s no guilty, what you gonna claim, that you were roleblocked or that some other shenanigans happened.

[ItalianoVD]

Also VD, can you break down for me why Nero is scum? Give me your absolute most convincing sell.

Well okay then, I was waiting for someone to ask me.

[ItalianoVD]

In 226 I said:

"I wasn't really expecting to "convince" anyone on meta, but this day is long and if I'm right, I'm sure it'll show for others to see as well."

I believe that's what's happened. I strongly feel Nero is playing differently, both tone-wise and how he has been positioning himself around many of the slots in the game. I pointed this out here.

I'm gonna try to keep our interactions to a minimum despite it being a good chunk of the game.

His posts have felt off from the start. On the surface it looks the same forI'm a tonal reader so the littlest What I mean is his tone doesn't sound townie.

Here's what I mean. None of his posts sound like this this game. Almost has a melodic gentle sound to the tone. His tone this game has felt like nails on a chalkboard.

As town he also tends to give the benefit of the doubt to players when he is sorting, when it's deserved.

Take this for example:
Nero
Andres
Nero

This... As well as this.

In contrast:

Spoiler:

Last game I pushed several people early and they were all town. I don't want to repeat my mistakes.

honestly, this doesn't make me feel any better lol. I mean maybe I could see you go "oh my reads were really bad last game so I'm going try to let others lead." but then I think there's a good chunk of possible scum motivation in that.

lol

I wasn't reading the thread

is just such a convenient response. It's a hard swallow given that you were actively responding to a joke. I can't "prove" anything and coincidences do happen but I just don't really believe you when you say that you weren't reading the game and that your vote wasn't retaliation.

Also, if you've been paying attention, he has no town reads this game. Everyone is scummy, a classic scum tactic that makes it's possible for him to eliminate anyone including potential partners and not get heat.

Carca asked him here where his town reads were and he responds with:

Spoiler:

Everyone that's not VD, Gamma, STD, and Kitty. Though Dann also seems kinda scummy and you would make sense in a VD/Gamma team. That's my d1 solve so far.

Contrast it with this and this. He hasn't given anyone a townread this game or even hinted at doing so it's either scumread or fencesit (we'll get to the latter in a bit). The point is scum!nero very rarely if ever gives townreads.

These are also some of the contradictions I've found from Nero. Having a problem with Gamma answering a question for him, but answering a question for over90 in 70. Again had a problem with it in 904. Protesting against players fencesitting while doing the exact same.

Protesting:
144 - Talks about Kitty fencesitting
446 - Talks about fencesittiness in general

Partaking:
264 - Fencesitting on Kitty.
340 - Fencesitting on STD.

There is no good will in his pushes and many times he doesn't even care that it's a contradiction. Here's a contradiction of him forgetting his previous stance in the game.

y can't he just have a gut read? Why does his read have to be explained?

Really? You'll get this one if you've been paying attention. In 755 when interacting with over90 he posted:

If VD town flips or gets inno'd and you want to suspect me, fine but I guess that makes you a noob, right?

There is no conviction here that he is town. He downplays over90's associative measured plan (me v him) to pretty much say there is nothing to see here folks.

Tries his best to discredit another point, but just fails. Read 822 carefully and see if there is a difference from what I said in 820.

And then there's the claim or whatever it is he wants us to believe it is. I already pointed it out but this soft "claim" was in direct response to people not wanting to eliminate me, despite him saying it was not.

ok, I get it. No voting VD till I get a gulity. ok


VOTE: gamma

It does not feel like a town claim ever. What was the purpose of claiming here? I can't find town motivation here because even if it's ego, that claim would have come way earlier. Another thing that can't really be quantified is the resistance I feel when dealing with this game. Like everywhere I go within my scumleans there is resistance but no resistance within my townleans so to me that tells me that I'm not too far off in my thinking and/or I have to do a better job of getting town to work together. I'm pretty good at townreading players so I trust when I have placed players in my townbin for the most part. Of course there is always room for error.

The strongest reason why I was scumreading Nero from the get go was based on his tone and interaction with the playerlist. Now that the game has progressed and we are able to see more, it has pretty much solidified my stance. I just don't see town!Nero playing the game the game the way he is.

I'd like to end the day here if at all possible. I'm willing to compromise within my pool of scumleans, otherwise.

[ItalianoVD]

His posts have felt off from the start. On the surface it looks the same forI'm a tonal reader so the littlest What I mean is his tone doesn't sound townie.

Sorry, let's try that again.

His posts have felt off from the start. On the surface it looks the same for a town Nero, but if you look closer you see it's anything but. I'm a tonal reader so the littlest change in wording or how a player responds, interacts, sets of antennas. What I mean is his tone doesn't sound townie.

That's better.

[ItalianoVD]

I don’t really think NK15 is scum anymore

When did you ever think he was scum?

[ItalianoVD]

I'll catchup shortly.