large normal 239. game over

[DeasVail]

That’s pretty compelling honestly

[DeasVail]

Oh I’m ascetic

[DeasVail]

We could talk about that if people want

[DeasVail]

I should have claimed something more exciting like PGO instead. Damn

[DeasVail]

I should have claimed something more exciting like PGO instead. Damn

Flashbacks to claiming PGO as a SK in my first normal in lategame and getting yeeted bc it isn't normal valid

Oh no! That’s awful. I can’t keep up with what’s normal and what’s not nowadays. There used to be freedom for mods to put an additional 1-2 roles in. In fact, I think I may have even modded a large normal with a PGO back in the day.

—

Anyway I have a few light townreads so far but no one is really jumping out at me in a negative way. Not getting the same bloodlust as a few others seem to be.

[DeasVail]

I mean, STD is really not inspiring me much either way rn. Limming him would feel pretty premature.

[DeasVail]

Thanks Gamma. That makes sense!

[DeasVail]

VOTE: KittyTacky

[DeasVail]

A big part of why I think Kitty could be scum is the way that they have responded to suspicion in this game. When one is scum, the question of how to respond to a vote/suspicion is, I think, a pretty tricky one, and something that a lot of players as scum will have to intentionally think about, and I think Kitty's responses align with scum feeling the need to respond in a certain way, rather than a natural town response.

The first example of this is here:

VOTE: KittyTacky

You're making a terrible mistake, I'm Jester.

Which would be a pretty harmless joke on its own, and at first I didn't think anything of it, but then it is a lot more pronounced in 139

Statements like "Do you really expect me to try to case you on page 6? I don't case people this early." don't actually match what Nero was asking, and make out Nero to be unreasonable.

And "The cardinal sin of waiting for more posts from a player before seeing whether to commit to a read or not." - is an insistence that what Kitty is doing is totally reasonable and shouldn't be suspected, again that any suspicion of Kitty is unsubstantiated (though note that in this case RCE didn't even provide a reason for thinking that Kitty was scum).

So instead of being confident in their role PM being town, Kitty feels the need to essentially belittle any suspicion against them, even when the suspicion itself is quite trivial and low-impact.

--

I also don't like the Nero thing, as I don't really believe that they truly have that read.

--

over90, I would like to know why you townread Kitty.

PEdit: Tbf carcalilly, no one was actually shading kitty for not casing early. That was a narrative that Kitty themselves created.

[DeasVail]

over90, I would like to know why you townread Kitty.

some meta and his bravery,
relaxation, but i can be wrong

I don’t think I’ve played with them before. Is there meta that points to them being more likely town here?

[DeasVail]

Kitty, nowhere has anyone said that they are voting you because you didn’t case Nero.

Why do you still claim this?

[DeasVail]

Kitty, nowhere has anyone said that they are voting you because you didn’t case Nero.

Why do you still claim this?

Well it came across this way. Elaborate why you think my response to pressure is scummy.

I think that you have prioritised stamping out suspicion cast against you (scum-motivated) over trying to determine whether people are town or scum (town-motivated)

[DeasVail]

Not a big fan of NK15 votes because he seems like super LHF

If there's scum on the Tako wagon it's probably Save the Dragons

Is Save the Dragons not LHF?

[DeasVail]

I think my top townreads are Gamma, RCE, over90 and Carcalilly

[DeasVail]

I think my top townreads are Gamma, RCE, over90 and Carcalilly

other than the fact that I think I'm obvtown, I think your Gamma town read is whack.

I don’t really think you’re scum, if that helps.

Do you think gamma is scum?

[DeasVail]

UNVOTE: KittyTacky

Not feeling it rn

[DeasVail]

DV talk to me about carca.

83 was the sort of thing that was out-of-line with what other people were doing at the time. You could argue that scum would do an unprompted reads list to look town, but more likely they'll try to match the vibe of what the town is putting out there and not stand out.

309 reads as genuinely confused by the flurry of votes on tako (I was confused too) and again, is a way of standing out. Admitting to not seeing what others are seeing is a bit scary for scum.

325 seems to really be trying to understand over90's thought process. I'm not sure what purpose it really serves for scum.

[DeasVail]

Dann, from RCE I’ve liked the opposition to popular wagons without feeling the need to proclaim a townread on the wagoned slots. I think it’s quite common for town to feel uncomfortable with a wagon without really being able to explain why, while scum will more likely feel the need to have a ~reason~ for what they say.
The townread on me feels a little easy, and is probably stronger than it should be, but for all the right reasons? The whole kitty sequence is very town-me but I guess I would replicate that as scum. Probably I would have picked another direction to go in by now if I were scum though.

Why do you scumread RCE?

[DeasVail]

VOTE: Not Known 15
Rah!

[DeasVail]

V/LA for 2 days. Apologies

[DeasVail]

Notice Nero is planted nicely, still on his RVS vote from pg2, and yet seems to be coaching from the sidelines instead of in the trenches trying to actually figure out the game.

Throwing out shade here, little fun comments there. I’m telling you people, this is NOT town!Nero

But what

is

town!Nero then? I'm not confident that Nero is town here, but I'm used to him throwing shade. What would be different about him as town?

[DeasVail]

btw, italiano and nero - is it possible that you are both towns? just think some time about it, just in case. bc if you are townies, it is difficult to understand the game through your fighting, when you are considering each other the most scum. if you are so sure, then we have at least 1 scum between two of you and it will be useful to check any of you using a cop, for example italiano, to understand both your sides with 1 shot. Right? And to eliminate someone else, smb who is more lurking

them both being town is my best guess tbh

[DeasVail]

I like your post on Cakez, STD. I had him as a lazy weak townread, but I realise that really wasn't based on much.

My current "would be willing to vote" pool is:

Dannflor
Cakez
Bosco
Nashed
Not Known

[DeasVail]

My vote doesn’t change. Let’s not make the mistake of letting scum!Nero slip through our fingers!

This feels incredibly exaggerated

[DeasVail]

I'm not particularly convinced that Enchant is scum here. Possible sure but I don't agree that their posts are necessarily scum-indicative

Nero has successfully convinced me that I may have been giving Italiano too much of a free pass for high content and attitude, but I'm still not convinced that he's the right way to go atm.

NK15's mega-post in isolation does not do much for me, while Dannflor and NashedPotato remain as tasty backup options.

[DeasVail]

You need to prove i am not efforting.

This is actually kind of a good point. I think Enchant has snookered you here Nero

[DeasVail]

NK, besides voting for me, what are you doing to pressure me?

I don’t feel pressured yet, so what are you going to do about it?

[DeasVail]

I'm not particularly convinced that Enchant is scum here. Possible sure but I don't agree that their posts are necessarily scum-indicative

Because he probably isn't.

Nero has successfully convinced me that I may have been giving Italiano too much of a free pass for high content and attitude, but I'm still not convinced that he's the right way to go atm.

Seriously? How? Smh.

NK15's mega-post in isolation does not do much for me, while Dannflor and NashedPotato remain as tasty backup options.

Tasty??

Is there any particular response you were hoping from me here?

[DeasVail]

I’m assuming it’s because VD is using meta for some reads but ignoring meta for others

(@nero)

[DeasVail]

I'm not particularly convinced that Enchant is scum here. Possible sure but I don't agree that their posts are necessarily scum-indicative

Because he probably isn't.

Nero has successfully convinced me that I may have been giving Italiano too much of a free pass for high content and attitude, but I'm still not convinced that he's the right way to go atm.

Seriously? How? Smh.

NK15's mega-post in isolation does not do much for me, while Dannflor and NashedPotato remain as tasty backup options.

Tasty??

Is there any particular response you were hoping from me here?

Just respond honestly bruh, like what are we doing here? You don't have to actually answer the last one and we pretty much agree on the first one, but I definitely wanna get an answer to the second one.

I don’t know what we’re doing here.

Your play feels very showy and I don’t know if you believe what you’re saying. You might and maybe that’ll become clearer idk but I’m not sure why you’re so BOTHERED by me thinking I was maybe being too generous in townreading you.

[DeasVail]

Hello!

[DeasVail]

Can someone sus me and fight me so I have the motivation to do something.

I think you might be scum and even though I’m slightly less passionate about that now I still think it a little bit?

[DeasVail]

Your play feels very showy and I don’t know if you believe what you’re saying. You might and maybe that’ll become clearer idk but I’m not sure why you’re so BOTHERED by me thinking I was maybe being too generous in townreading you.

I mean okay, can't really say anything there because that's your perception and I've heard that before. You said he convinced you. How? Where at?

So I expect you to actually be reading Nero’s posts if you think he’s scum. There was a post where Nero was clearly engaging me on my read of you that would be, in my mind, the most obvious source of Nero convincing me. Why do you appear so clueless on that front?

[DeasVail]

Post 515, for reference

[DeasVail]

So I expect you to actually be reading Nero’s posts if you think he’s scum. There was a post where Nero was clearly engaging me on my read of you that would be, in my mind, the most obvious source of Nero convincing me. Why do you appear so clueless on that front?

I have read his posts so I'm assuming you're talking about 515, you never answered him. He convinced you by only asking questions?

I feel that there was slightly more than questions to Nero’s post, but yes. I don’t think it’s so unusual that being asked imploring questions makes someone realise gaps in their logic or false assumptions.

Do you think that’s unusual?

[DeasVail]

Fenrir, where you at?

[DeasVail]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: SirCakez

[DeasVail]

I also claimed that I'm not a VT, why aren't people talking about me huh?

Also VD, can you break down for me why Nero is scum? Give me your absolute most convincing sell.

Because I am very much not convinced. If there were a 1v1 between you and Nero, I'd kill you every time.

[DeasVail]

Eh I think Kitty is town.

Sorry for suspecting you earlier Kitty

[DeasVail]

There is a surprisingly high number of people that I’m completely okay with eliminating and I don’t really care that strongly between them

[DeasVail]

Except it makes me think that I’d probably rather keep Italiano, and even Elsa, around because bosco, nashed, cakez, Titus are all just very good options.

[DeasVail]

ewwww bosco, nash and cakez are just lurkers.

They’re actually scummy though

[DeasVail]

y?

bosco - mostly the Elsa Jay vote and reaction around that, believing that it was okay that she voted Elsa Jay because over90 voted Elsa Jay too. Why isn't bosco-town worried that the people voting Elsa Jay could be scum? Or is this scum who truly believes they are fitting in with the townies by voting for Elsa Jay?

Nashed - I didn't like their early posts which seemed like posting for the sake of posting rather than actually doing anything. Plus I was originally suspicious of 669 BUT I have changed my mind and don't actually think Nashed is that scummy on a re-read.

Cakez - I liked STD's thoughts on him, and I am additionally suspicious because of the over90 vote, the justification for it in 779 ("clearly you have not played with me before" feels overly defensive) and still not removing the vote despite not actually being active? It feels like scum pretending to "fall" for what town might think is a townslip.

[DeasVail]

VD, thanks for the post on Nero. I appreciate it.

I see that you have compared Nero here to Nero town-games. Do you have reason to believe that the points you make are consistent with how Nero plays as scum, or is it just inconsistent with your Nero-town experience?

[DeasVail]

I don’t really think NK15 is scum anymore

[DeasVail]

UNVOTE:

I’ll reassess tonight

[DeasVail]

I don’t really think NK15 is scum anymore

When did you ever think he was scum?

Sometime before now

[DeasVail]

Spoiler:

vote count 1.8 !

Elsa Jay (3):

Malakittens, mq.bosco, SirCakez

mq.bosco (3):

NashedPotato, over90, KittyTacky

over90 (2):

Not Known 15, Elsa Jay

Titus (2):

RCEnigma, Save The Dragons

SirCakez (1):

DeasVail

Save The Dragons (1):

ItalianoVD

Nero Cain (1):

Nero Cain

DeasVail (1):

Titus

not voting (2):

Enchant, Carcalilly

with 16 alive, it takes 9 to cause someone to be ever so slowly slowly locked up in their own house. day 1 ends in (expired on 2022-06-05 13:31:22)

modorator notes

• e

VOTE: bosco

Also is Nero really voting himself?

Why bosco?

Why not me?

[DeasVail]

nero, lets find another target

what do you think of Titus?

There is, at most, 1 scum between Elsa, Enchant, Mala and Cara.

I agree. It's Mala.

How are you so sure?

(I have reservations about the Titus vote just because Titus doesn’t /feel/ quite like scum-Titus to me but I also don’t townread the slot and am keen to get soMe more clarity on my read there)

[DeasVail]

I think Titus’ leap to calling RCE’s post a “scum discredit” was pretty scummy. Even if Titus is town and knows that RCE is wrong, it should be much more likely to Titus that RCE is confirmation biased rather than RCE being scum.

And in general, I don’t think Titus’ play is aimed at actually trying to progress their reads. Consider my vote spiritually on Titus, but I’ll wait until a replacement before voting.

[DeasVail]

I think Titus’ leap to calling RCE’s post a “scum discredit” was pretty scummy. Even if Titus is town and knows that RCE is wrong, it should be much more likely to Titus that RCE is confirmation biased rather than RCE being scum.

And in general, I don’t think Titus’ play is aimed at actually trying to progress their reads. Consider my vote spiritually on Titus, but I’ll wait until a replacement before voting.

Yes you want "progression" because that would change my answer.

Here you are implying that me expecting an amount of re-evaluating/working on your reads is unreasonable.

[DeasVail]

I think Titus’ leap to calling RCE’s post a “scum discredit” was pretty scummy. Even if Titus is town and knows that RCE is wrong, it should be much more likely to Titus that RCE is confirmation biased rather than RCE being scum.

And in general, I don’t think Titus’ play is aimed at actually trying to progress their reads. Consider my vote spiritually on Titus, but I’ll wait until a replacement before voting.

Yes you want "progression" because that would change my answer.

Here you are implying that me expecting an amount of re-evaluating/working on your reads is unreasonable.

You're not asking in good faith at all. You've given nothing for me to reevaluate on. You've just whined my catch of you is bad.

I have not done that. Why are you saying that I have done things that I have not? This is not about your read on me and I don’t really care about that. It is about your reads in general, and yet you make it out that I am only whining about your read on me, as if to discredit the argument I’m making

[DeasVail]

VOTE: Titus

[DeasVail]

i don't think i've seen titus go "I've solved the game you're welcome" with such a terrible solve and then just try to walk away from it like she's done

i don't know what to think about it but nothing has made me think she's town

i actually think i'm pretty accurate at reading her even though i can't characterize why because she's pretty different from game to game so i am unsure.

I was thinking the same re: the first sentence. I’ve seen her be scum a fair bit recently though and so I’m thinking it’s an attempt to appear different from recent scum games of hers (e.g the neighbour game, the Go large normal). Regardless, it feels incredibly forced, as if she’s constructed this approach rather than it happening naturally as town

[DeasVail]

I don’t have any excuses though

[DeasVail]

Wait we're alive?!? Holy shit!

Why the surprise?

[DeasVail]

you all need better guns

[DeasVail]

Math, what do you think of Mala?

[DeasVail]

I was looking at the bosco slot overnight and believe them to be town. Not_mafia, indeed

[DeasVail]

Am I smooth braining?

Scum pushing Titus scum poe makes sense for scum to do right or wrong?

nah I get you, dw

Also Titus was wrong on at least two so lots to push

[DeasVail]

i will elim/hammer everybody who doesnt provide any reasons talking about his townreads/scumreads. learn how to play this

soz

[DeasVail]

In all seriousness, threatening me with elimination is not going to be a constructive method of communication, and is not something that I'm going to respond to.

(@over90)

[DeasVail]

VOTE: Elsa Jay

I don't think Elsa Jay making the kill as scum is as unlikely as Math claims it to be.

I think Mala is town and even off play at this point, I think Elsa is the most likely in the hood to be scum.

So I guess my vote is a combination of night actions indicating a possible failed kill by Elsa, but also I think Elsa's play is scummy. The reaction to there being no kills felt off, and would make a lot more sense in hindsight if Elsa is scum who failed a kill and didn't know how to react to that. The play around Mala's claim etc. also does not make sense. There needs to be an explanation for the failed kill and so if Elsa thinks there can absolutely not be a town JK then, well, there has to be yet another role in the game that can stop a kill and I don't think Elsa is really thinking about that possibility.

[DeasVail]

Understood, that makes sense

[DeasVail]

It sucks how many scummy people are in the hood like I want to kill them all but prob only one at most is scum :/

Who in the hood is scummy to you?

Is enchant’s play here more likely from enchant-scum even?

[DeasVail]

It sucks how many scummy people are in the hood like I want to kill them all but prob only one at most is scum :/

Who in the hood is scummy to you?

Is enchant’s play here more likely from enchant-scum even?

I could kill any of Elsa, Math, or Mala
Enchant is like fine I guess

Why do you want to kill Math?
Do you think Mala is lying about being a JK?

[DeasVail]

Do you think I'd make sense as a possible n1 shot?

ah

[DeasVail]

I think it could be worth limming Elsa anyway, but hmm

[DeasVail]

I am sure that NM is town. I am not sure that KittyTacky is town

[DeasVail]

I am sure that NM is town. I am not sure that KittyTacky is town

Why

Why not?

[DeasVail]

dealing with family issues at the moment.

i'm a 1 shot doc, i protected over90 night 1

Sorry to hear about your family :/

Gamewise this sounds like a total fakeclaim. Why weren't you suspicious of RCE at all?

I am sure that NM is town. I am not sure that KittyTacky is town

Why

Why not?

Why is Not Mafia town? I have a very good reason to sr that slot. It was mentioned by scum amongst two other town.

By scum do you mean KittyTacky?

[DeasVail]

dealing with family issues at the moment.

i'm a 1 shot doc, i protected over90 night 1

Sorry to hear about your family :/

Gamewise this sounds like a total fakeclaim. Why weren't you suspicious of RCE at all?

Oh I meant to reply to this too.

I think the 1-shot is the most town thing about the claim.

Using the 1-shot doc on N1 though is… hmm

[DeasVail]

VOTE: not known 15

Do you think scum interact with me like NK15 has? I guess NK is sort of piggybacking off over90 but I kind of doubt scum bother pushing me tbh

[DeasVail]

Nero, what do you think of STD claiming to have used it on N1 though?

[DeasVail]

Stagnate? The thread has been open like 12 hrs, and not mafia and mashed have yet to check in. And kitty has only made 1 post that didn’t say anything

Agreed. That was a bit strange

[DeasVail]

Do you think scum interact with me like NK15 has? I guess NK is sort of piggybacking off over90 but I kind of doubt scum bother pushing me tbh

Why would scum not bother pushing you?

I generally think that scum tend to be more thoughtful about their pushes and with NK pushing me for exactly the same thing over90 did D2, which got no traction, it feels... like scum wouldn't do that.

[DeasVail]

but Cat raises a good point that scum might not be as thoughtful as I assume them to be

[DeasVail]

but Math is town so when you call it strange you mean exactly what?

it means exactly what I said it means

[DeasVail]

I mean clearly town do agree with each other from time to time but scum parroting or sheeping is a thing so it just seems ??? when someone says scum wouldn't do that b/c scum absolutely would do that.

also the main reason I didn't think it would happen is because no one bit when over90 when pushing it, but it's not that important

[DeasVail]

Stagnate? The thread has been open like 12 hrs, and not mafia and mashed have yet to check in. And kitty has only made 1 post that didn’t say anything

Agreed. That was a bit strange

Yep it’s strange. I think there’s a good reason to end the day I put in the hood Mala can vouch for me.

I just put a BS reason here I thought would be convincing.

it's okay. I'm cool going with the BS reason for now