Large Normal 241: Random Pictures and Other Stuff | Endgame

[fireisredsir]

traitor ausuka telling the vig to shoot her scumpartner without even being able to talk to them would be p funny

[fireisredsir]

would 20p (even number of players) be more likely to have a vig

idk if that's actually true but it seems like something that could be true

[fireisredsir]

kinda feeling exactly one town in mena/deas/GL tbh

[fireisredsir]

frog might be scum as well actually

im on like page 64 right after he replaced in tho so idk maybe these opinions change later

[fireisredsir]

i think irrel is actually p towny this time around

[fireisredsir]

and i have no idea why i townread skitter, she wasn't really towny at all

[fireisredsir]

dann probtown

[fireisredsir]

god obscure is too cute im not reading his posts i can't properly assess alignment here

[fireisredsir]

hi frog

[fireisredsir]

leaning towards frog/mena/GL rn btw but deas is still a possibility

[fireisredsir]

why's it funny

[fireisredsir]

why's it funny

Because you've given up pretending to fake a read trajectory and are just hoping no one reads your iso. Also GL and I are obvtown. Also, you avoid voting Mena anytime the wagon gets close to going through.

what about my iso prevents me from having my current reads

the second point is more or less true, i preferred the other options every time mena has been a wagon so far, but i think i might have been wrong about that. does that mean im not allowed to suspect him now or something? i don't get your point here (ik your point is that im partnered with mena, but how does that matter here since im now saying i think he's probably scum?)

[fireisredsir]

ok wait i just got to the gamma thing where he says obscure and frog are buddies, that does seem really weird if they are S/S/S, i had forgotten about that

[fireisredsir]

answer my question

[fireisredsir]

what does that mean

that doesn't answer my question at all

[fireisredsir]

lol

[fireisredsir]

its a 240 page game im just livetweeting my thoughts. i will probably try to summarize them more cohesively once i finish

idk it sounds super unhelpful to me to respond to decade old posts and give quotes for exactly what im thinking prior to me finishing but i can if you want

p sure i did exactly this in frenemies

i also don't really expect to convince anyone i shouldn't die at some point in the next few days here, but i would like the chance to figure out who i think is scum and illustrate why

[fireisredsir]

like i could just say nothing and wait until im done but idk the game was quiet and i felt like talking

and i think i got a useful interaction w frog out of it

[fireisredsir]

obviously i am not expecting anyone to be convinced by these thoughts until i actually back them up, i was just having fun sharing them

mb ig

[fireisredsir]

ig more accurate would be to say that i was sharing my conclusions as they updated, but fair enough, i thought i said more but ig i didn't decide to start posting until 40 pages in or whatever

[fireisredsir]

ig more accurate would be to say that i was sharing my conclusions as they updated, but fair enough, i thought i said more but ig i didn't decide to start posting until 40 pages in or whatever

[fireisredsir]

like idk what your point even is, i dunno why i would put more effort into reading than into writing as scum, obviously that's not going to get me anywhere lol

but whatever ik i probably have to die here at some point so its fine, i just want to try to figure out who i think scum is before that happens

[fireisredsir]

frog might be scum as well actually

im on like page 64 right after he replaced in tho so idk maybe these opinions change later

can you elaborate more on where/how you're seeing this?

i will but i want to at least see how d2 played out bc it's possible that my current thoughts are dumb

short version is i thought his entrance was a lot worse than i remembered, and the way vp and others treated it felt like he could fit into a scumteam. specifically the callout of skitter as towny seemed really fake and meant to try to imitate the town frog wild theories that people expect (but those are usually actually based in something, believe it or not)

[fireisredsir]

Do you think frog/Mena are partnered, and he is hard bussing Mena?

i want to read more before i know what i think on this. but currently, yea i kinda do

[fireisredsir]

he was clearly not joking those people were being dumb

[fireisredsir]

actually zero idea how anyone could interpret those posts as a joke

[fireisredsir]

like idk what your point even is, i dunno why i would put more effort into reading than into writing as scum, obviously that's not going to get me anywhere lol

but whatever ik i probably have to die here at some point so its fine, i just want to try to figure out who i think scum is before that happens

I don't think you actually did a reread.

lol

ok well uh that probably won't last long?

[fireisredsir]

no, i fully read, maybe skimmed a bit of the posts made by dead people when they weren't important. im on page 87 now!

im sorry that me posting my conclusions before i post my reasoning is not what you expected but i getting townread isn't my goal here so, deal with it ig

[fireisredsir]

yes i am planning to explain further, fear not

[fireisredsir]

definitely on the side of this is explicitly S-S tho!!

[fireisredsir]

does anyone want to chat to me about anything or should i just start isoing

Do you understand why I didn't want to wait so many IRL days for Menalque? It's not Pro Town to waste time and give preferential treatment to slots because they're our friends. Players get distracted and paranoid and lurk scum slip through the cracks.

mena is like 90% either getting limmed today or getting shot tonight

[fireisredsir]

does anyone want to chat to me about anything or should i just start isoing

Do you understand why I didn't want to wait so many IRL days for Menalque? It's not Pro Town to waste time and give preferential treatment to slots because they're our friends. Players get distracted and paranoid and lurk scum slip through the cracks.

mena is like 90% either getting limmed today or getting shot tonight

Fireistroll confirmed sir. Suggesting Menalque has a 10% to live.

the 10% is if he doesn't get limmed today and then scum have some block or protect for csf which is why they let her live

but in that case he still gets limmed soon after anyway so

[fireisredsir]

the 10% is if he doesn't get limmed today and then scum have some block or protect for csf which is why they let her live

but in that case he still gets limmed soon after anyway so

Where's your case on GL and I, fire? It might help if you put your phone down and went to a library so you can use a keyboard to type it out.

that would help actually maybe i should try libraryposting, ive never done that but its a good idea, im there a lot anyway

and as i said i want to continue reading before i start writing. chill, there's no rush

on page 100 now

[fireisredsir]

Do you think frog/Mena are partnered, and he is hard bussing Mena?

i want to read more before i know what i think on this. but currently, yea i kinda do

Oh wait I can't tell if I'm waiting on a frog/GL case or a frog/Mena case

all 3 maybe

are there only 2 scum left? i thought we were assuming 5 total

if there's 2 that changes things maybe

[fireisredsir]

groupscum:

datisi

,

vpb

,

fireisredsir

,

conmanmick

mafia traitor:

firebringer

our goddess says that we are supposed to flip fire today!

the idea isn't that she always has perfect reads, the idea is that it makes more sense for scum to n1 her if her reads were mostly good

[fireisredsir]

the idea isn't that she always has perfect reads, the idea is that it makes more sense for scum to n1 her if her reads were mostly good

i'll find the relative post if I need to but someone had brought up that Ari was killed for having good reads and you used that to justify voting SS (this was on d2) If we were to assume that dats is a legit inno and she's 1-3. How do you feel about following Ari's reads?

ye scamper said it, and i did vote ss originally bc of it

i think its a p reasonable guess to make and i wouldn't be mad at anyone for following that path, even tho i now know it to be wrong

[fireisredsir]

wow i kinda forgot the whole hem vs scamper thing even happened

[fireisredsir]

im slightly worried im getting confbiased atp bc as i get further, everything i see is just making things click even more and it feels like the game finally makes sense

will post in depth tomorrow, i promise

[fireisredsir]

this is the first time ive felt confident about something in this game that wasn't a townread so it's exciting

[fireisredsir]

thanks!! im pretending ur lil avatar man is cheering me on as i read

[fireisredsir]

oh holy shit, this isn't confbias, im actually correct

gl/mena for sure, probably frog, lock it in

sry im awful i know this isn't helpful yet but i can't help it

[fireisredsir]

i hate that my idiot little brain reads 223 pages of a game

getting steadily more and more convinced that GL is scum and why his actions make more sense from a scum mindset than a town one

only to read 5578 and go

"hmm. townslip? real? hmm, yes. GL must be town, actually"

[fireisredsir]

at least datisi had the same thought

[fireisredsir]

reading through it actually feels like almost everyone that i think is town at some point or another has been like on the edge of solving things but never quite nails it down (if im correct)

like scamper is actually there from what i can tell, he just doesn't have his heart in things rn. datisi almost there. dann almost there. ydra was almost there

i think thats a good sign

[fireisredsir]

nero too ofc

[fireisredsir]

yay we're alive

i lost my momentum and also probably some of my confidence tbh but i still have things ill want to talk about later

[fireisredsir]

oh yea i def still think GL is scum that post just made me doubt myself but idk

short answer on dann is that the way dann played especially around flipped scum just reads like he doesn't have any scum motivation, and on reread i p much just believe the things he's saying come from town

[fireisredsir]

oh yea i def still think GL is scum that post just made me doubt myself but idk

so if you think I'm scum what was the point of 7517

like if you don't earnestly think that's a townslip, then you're just posturing

bc it was like 1am and i was annoyed that i had that reaction to it

like gut wise i read that and do kinda think it is a townslip

but logically ik that people do fake those sometimes and i really shouldn't let that one thing outweigh the other things that i think are actually good reasons

[fireisredsir]

short answer on dann is that the way dann played especially around flipped scum just reads like he doesn't have any scum motivation, and on reread i p much just believe the things he's saying come from town

this also a weak reason to TR someone buuuut my reasons for TRing Dann were also pretty weak in hindsight so I'm gonna evaluate this for myself

I recall Dann's interactions with Gamma not at all being clearing though? like he loosely holds Gamma as a scumread but never pushes momentum there IIRC

not so much gamma, but the way that he pushed for tweet right after ausuka had dropped her case on me when he had been paranoiaing on me is like... huge momentum shifter

there's more idr if i have it in my notes or not but that's probably the biggest thing for me

[fireisredsir]

y'all are gonna hate my cases btw bc a lot of them revolve around mena being scum and i don't even really have reasons to scumread the slot individually

if he somehow is town then uh oops idk lol

[fireisredsir]

that seems kinda strange, mgl

yes ik

not all of the points are about that but the most significant one (to me at least) is

[fireisredsir]

y'all are gonna hate my cases btw bc a lot of them revolve around mena being scum and i don't even really have reasons to scumread the slot individually

if he somehow is town then uh oops idk lol

Some would say that sounds like an incredibly convenient excuse to push me no matter what today and then to be able to back-pedal literally everything else you said tomorrow when you need a new target

Some would say, including me

why would i need an excuse to push you

[fireisredsir]

i would have posted it by now if datisi hadn't hacked the site and taken it town!!

coming soon

[fireisredsir]

taken it down, obviously

datisi town confirmed

[fireisredsir]

y'all are all town can you chill

[fireisredsir]

I mean I don't think it's shea

[menalque, frogster, guiltylion, dv] is the set I need to reread in

yes

[fireisredsir]

also yea when rereading it became p clear that scamper and ydra were mason pairs, tbh i thought datisi was like a 1shot FN or something but 3rd mason also makes sense

[fireisredsir]

I mean I don't think it's shea

(i don't think he's scum either i just wanted to get fire to give an actual answer)

i think ive been p clear lately that i think its frog/mena/GL but maybe not idk

[fireisredsir]

you can shoot me or lim me or hard bop me or whatever you wanna do idc just lemme finish typing things up first

[fireisredsir]

also that sounds like a fun masonry im jealous

[fireisredsir]

I mean I don't think it's shea

(i don't think he's scum either i just wanted to get fire to give an actual answer)

i think ive been p clear lately that i think its frog/mena/GL but maybe not idk

why do you suspect GL

i assume you're asking for the sake of live interacting which is fine but ill be posting stuff at some point soon

you also probably won't like some of it lol, bc the biggest thing that doesn't make sense from town to me, makes a lot more sense if obscure is scum

but i do think that even just looking at how he handled flipped scum vs flipped town you can see how the ways in which he used his vote was p opportunistic

[fireisredsir]

i started out the reread here:

[scamper, datisi, CSF] treat as town
[nero, ausuka] lean town
[dann, frog, shea, mena, deas, GL] unsorted

and ended here:

[scamper, datisi, CSF, nero, ausuka] treat as town
[dann, shea, deas] lean town
[frog, mena, GL] scum

ausuka seems town in a bunch of different ways, idk if i really need to go into that but it was reaffirmed on reread. the early push on baltar felt very just... correct, calling to have him vigged, etc. the only thing i slightly worried about briefly was if she maybe has TMI issues as scum then i might consider the possibility (a couple posts felt weirdly confident and gave me pause) but then as i got later i think her play the last few days reads as p uninformed, so i don't think that makes sense

nero also reaffirmed my townread, idr the specific points anymore, just kinda felt like he was consistently pushing in good directions, and seems unaligned with everyone, esp d1 and d2 seemed like he was always putting in work towards finding scum. also i kinda doubt he kills ari and then is salty about her reads all game lol



so where that left me was a poe of the 6 unsorted. im kinda expecting 3 of those to be scum, which is pretty narrow, and means that associations are actually kinda valuable to think about within this group



irrel/shea and dann both i started to feel more town based on that. irrel d1 was p good knowing where the poe is now and who has flipped what. also looks unaligned with GL cause i think he kinda nailed it in his early callout of what was off about GL's vibes. dann's entrance was actually quite good in terms of pushing in places that probably have scum, same goes to shea, and both i think just lately haven't felt like they're positioning to protect scum or angling to gain cred in any way, they're just doing their thing and i think they're town. i can pull posts to go more in depth if people really are interested in my thoughts there but idk if it's super necessary rn

deas i felt was actually quite scummy d1 this time around, and there was this set of interactions between him/GL/VP that i think was super interesting (more on that later). but knowing who the possible scum are if deas is scum, i think he would have kinda needed to be bussing like the whole game? like i think he was just right on a lot of things. i thought the frog vote out of his poe of 4 was weird, but if frog is scum? he was just right! his consistent gamma and tweet push was good. the obscure interactions are prob unaligned. i think he's just town

skitter/obscure/mena... tbh the main thing i see here is the interactions and the way other people have treated this slot. people have made their cases already, and those are all fine and reasonable, the main thing individually that i saw was skitter not looking as towny as i thought

specific frog and GL points are gonna go in separate posts

[fireisredsir]

frog
- enters immediately with confident opinions and a townread on skitter. it's strange, but frog can pull things out of nowhere sometimes, so whatever
- jumps on gamma very quickly (1732 and is suddenly very confident, with 1754, 1767, 1781) but as soon as scamper expresses a townlean he backs off completely in 1794
- 1877 I feel like this kinda tmis vp as scum but he votes dann instead (2476)


- just in general seems like he wants to work within town consensus but p consistently pushes away from the scum in those poes and towards the town (clears gamma very quickly, 1986, 2593, 4115, 4126)
- also tends to have very odd trajectories on flipped scum, treats gamma and vp as confscum basically from entrance but pushes elsewhere, and is willing to drop the gamma read without much pushback. then does the same thing once MT and mena replace in, suddenly they're immediately lockscum


- datisi mentioned this in 3648 but it was a good point that's worth bringing up again. which is that vp's frog read and frog iso in 2150 was super awkward
- 3698 is an awful look, pushing against dann for some posting that in hindsight looks like it was p insightful, and that led to a push on obscure
- only uses of TvT are when referring to scum (1661 with vp, 2461 with gamma, 4278 with gamma)
- i think a lot gets excused by frog being frog. im guilty of the same. his posts about eira were really bad as rightfully called out by scamper on page 185/186, i feel bad for giving him a pass on it


- is gone for a long time but shows up as the deas counterwagon to obscure is building (oops, i kinda started that, my bad) and joins deas 5030. he did have deas as a prior scumread, but it is convenient if paired with obscure. 5104 is p weird as well
- frog jumps on tweet pretty quickly in 5264 which is good ig, but it's also weird bc he was previously arguing against gamma being scum? his most recent expressed read is 4278 and he's mostly been calling gamma town. the read flip is just so sudden and seems unsupported
- i also kinda think 5479 feels like he cares more about showing how his trajectory on gamma is explainable and not as sketchy as it looks, under the guise of supposedly helping CSF reach a read on gamma


- having just read the full context, 5982 is just complete bs, GL did not have an open trajectory to vote DV, and would have looked horrible doing so
- he again, just like on tweet, does a very sudden complete flip of read on mena, despite previously townreading obscure and pushing against attempts to wagon him (most recent reads in 5180 and 5314), starting around 5752, with zero trajectory to support this, and yet soon after this he is pounding the table and insisting that mena is lockscum. speaking of, funny thing i noticed here was that frog demanded mena claim way before scamper pulled his gambit. mena ignored him, but i think that could be why mena was aware of his slot's claim already, and why he was very nonplussed by the scamper gambit
- I think lately he's settled in to his usual scum play of just confidently stating opinions and dodging questions




i think a lot of frog's play is difficult to understand coming from town, which isn't necessarily scummy for him. what stands out most to me is the way that his reads flip completely in ways that feel informed and don't have any real support behind them, especially on gamma, MT, and mena.

[fireisredsir]

GL
- i think in general early on he just kinda had some tone and direction issues, like most of the places he pushed didn't really vibe for me, but whatever i don't think thats going to do much for anyone else
- beyond just a few initial vibereads, one of the big things i noticed from d1 in the reread was the knot of interactions between VP/GL/DV. hard to link posts but its on page like 48 to 54ish. it feels like GL vs VP is kind of a contest of escalation, and GL vs DV is a contest of de-escalation. DV seems relatively equal in his approach to both of them, but GL treats DV very differently from how he treats VP. i don't really know how else to explain this, but it at least drew my attention to this group of players and you should read it imo


- kinda related but i think there's also a trend of him treating slots differently in a way that feels off. like sometimes he just misses slightly in terms of how much edge he should add to his tone. 224 with gamma has too much, 888 doesn't really say anything but feels like a response for the sake of responding, the whole of his interaction with vp.
-2164 is another example, just feels off. i also remember in turing test as town when he had an early reason to be suspicious of me and dropped a huge wall, but then didn't really engage much further with my responses. it just feels so different to his arguments with vp where it feels like they're just arguing for the sake of arguing.
-1070... like, really? thats what you're calling out? 1195? it just all feels like stuff that is designed to not be convincing to anyone whatsoever, which is super out of line with what i usually see from town GL, and even what he's used when pushing town slots in this game


- makes it clear that he is willing to vote vp but doesn't want to make the leap to start any momentum there despite a lot of other people having suspicion, 1356. he does vote vp in 1449, and picks up one from ausuka, but hops off again very quickly in 1514 onto CMM over a very nitpicky "a couple pages" vs "15 pages" pressure point, and then when he gets his answer he drops off and says "back to here" onto... dann, 1622, who he was voting prior to switching to vp. he did leave eira originally bc he didn't want to wagon an empty slot, but still



- 3502 soft pushback on the gamma scumread
- this point may be dumb but 3503 in combination with 7463 kiiinda makes me think that he made the kill on ari in the hope that people will paranoia onto me, but he wanted others to be the ones that come to that conclusion. not mentioning the post as far as i can find when it was posted and then just mostly treating me as town until it becomes convenient to bring it up again as "still good" just doesn't feel like a real trajectory to me
- repeatedly coming back to that one FB post is kinda meh to me, and reminds me of something i like to do as scum where i find something that i think feels off and just keep coming back to it over and over. 1694, 2822, 3395


- continually is willing to sheep onto town in pretty convenient ways, letting himself be convinced of things that are p convenient, usually dropping a townread pretty quickly, and gently nudging other people in directions that in hindsight usually help scum. some examples are 1232, 1288, 1296, 1682 (if frog is scum), 2392, 3441, 3524, 3940, 4446. i don't think these are super cherry picked either, but you can check for yourself, maybe im confbiased idk. there's def a few places where he sheeps a townread on town, or nudges people towards obscure, but the overall pattern seems like he's always a bit more reluctant to follow onto scum


- trajectory on obscure is p questionable. kinda feels like after vp flips he realized he was townreading all of his partners (see 2034) and that wasn't sustainable so he needed to find one to suspect. it starts in 3412, then 3491, then he's all the way in the bottom group of 4 in 3535. but then he keeps finding other places to push, throws in a soft town reason in 4019
- repeatedly questioned dann for moving off obscure while not even voting there himself which just feels... weird (3832, 3976)


- 3574 is kinda interesting, GL uses VP's calling his readslist trash to say that FB is scum. VP ive noticed likes calling correct readlists from townies trash, maybe he likes calling incorrect readlists from buddies trash? i think it is just weird for VP to be honest about the readlist being trash when talking to a townie, and it's very weird that he specifically called out GL for it when those were pretty consensus reads at the time. seems like he easily could have been especially aware of his partner having bad reads.
- 3573, similarly, is correctly pointing out that VP had a really weird interaction with GL that doesn't really make sense in a world where GL and FB are town. he uses it to conclude that FB is scum. FB wasn't scum. i think it does make sense if GL is scum though


- 3826 expresses happiness with the obscure wagon but doesn't want to move there unless there's momentum (said the same thing about VP d1). and yet he is more than willing to create that momentum on people even if they aren't his strongest scumread when they're town (see 4005 onto hem, which i think was the second vote there)
- obligatory comment on gamma as energy starts to shift there (4300, 4305) but notable silence once the wagon actually builds. major points to dann, nero, and deas for being the ones to start momentum there. reading it in full context, that was a pretty big shift in the course of the day. meanwhile, frog is on SS, deas, and dann in 4353.
- really wants the hem wagon not to die 4446


- ok this is i think the most significant point to me. 4778. hem claims vig. the hem wagon is now prob dead. people suggest he shoots obscure. GL's first response is that we should lim obscure instead? why? don't really understand why he now all of a sudden wants to wagon obscure when previously he only wanted to go there if there was momentum, and his most recent read was that he was starting to townread (4408).
- obscure hasn't posted since then and he hasn't indicated anything that would change his read. what is the town motivation behind suddenly wanting to wagon? if he's town and has conviction in his new townlean he should argue for a different shot. if he's town who thinks obscure can die then why not just let hem shoot? but as scum with obscure... oh man there is so much motivation behind this. if obscure becomes a legit wagon? he looks like a driving force behind it. if he flips? fine, he was going to get shot anyway, but this way GL gets cred for it.
- but that's not all. what if obscure becomes enough of a wagon that now hem asks for a different target? and then, best case scenario, what if obscure wagon dies out later and he never even gets shot? all while making GL look good for being the one to start the wagon? well guess what, that's exactly what happened. 4803, 4807. but then... people start suggesting lim obscure, shoot gamma. 4812 and 4819 (super clearing for shea and nero if obscure is scum btw). oops! luckily a few people suggested marci as well -- dann, ydra, me. GL chimes in with 4825 where he also prefers a marci shot, and even offers SS instead as well. he even props up SS' theory of an inno on gamma in 4847 and uses it to call gamma town and SS scum. it goes on. 4892. then marci claims, so he goes to saying we should lim obscure and shoot SS in 4920.


- hops off obscure in 5183, after questioning him a bit once he appeared, saying he had a gut town reaction, and that he wants to re-ISO. this is the point where the deas wagon is gaining momentum. his very next posts, now that a MT wagon has gained momentum and taken the lead, are hopping back on obscure and casing there a bit while defending gamma.
- 5902 hey, it's the same pattern he pulled on obscure earlier! pushes hard while they're gone, they show up, calls them towny, and starts looking elsewhere



the main points for me here are that i think GL has just mostly been gently helping scum, in the directions he chooses and the places he chooses to push back on someone's read vs choose to accept it. i think his trajectory on obscure doesn't really make sense from town, especially where he decided he wanted to wagon there instead of letting HEM vig it, and would make a lot of sense as partners.

[fireisredsir]

sorry ik this is probably awful to read but its hard to format better

[fireisredsir]

more general and less important reread thoughts

- i don't remember why i townread skitter, i don't think she did anything particularly towny. her early push on GL reminds me a lot actually of her early push on datisi in large normal 238, where it feels like she's noticing things from a strong scumpartner who she often interacts with that most people probably wouldn't see as off
- if the team was actually VP+GL+skitter, there's not a lot of downside to focusing heavily on each other d1 and i would probably even expect it, since in a large like this it's really unlikely that any of them are going to be the d1 lim
- it's tough for me to see who irrel could be scum with atp? i think especially he looks really unaligned with GL
- there was some interesting discussion on page 149 about the game state and why things felt weird, like why do things feel resistant to change while also not a ton of momentum gathering on the main wagons? if im right, town was just gone and scum were already 3/4 on the leading wagons of SS/shea, which would explain both of those
- idk why i ever scumread dann he feels super pure on this reread
- i was probably actually correct in 4484 that there would be scum white knighting for hem. i just didn't realize it could be frog. haters just can't accept the truth smh
- 5211 dear past fire, the correct conclusion here was actually that the reason you keep townreading people in your 4 person poe is because they're all town
- 5252 tweet shows up and immediately endorses frog's point (after calling him scum and then awkwardly walking it back) that we should be wagoning deas and not obscure
- 6051 @datisi, i think it makes a lot of sense if he's scum with both of them. he would rather get the flip that he has already built up the bus for, and he won't ever look bad for it bc he's pushing scum
- 6104 sheep ydra. deas is town, s_s is gone, yeet the rest
- i think most of d3 is p boring bc by like page 260ish it seems pretty clear that mena and SS are both flipping eventually so scum doesn't have a lot of motivation to do anything out of the ordinary and would prob just want to blend in. i actually kinda townread frog's posting in it but eh i don't think it's enough for me to be convinced

[fireisredsir]

irrel/shea and dann both i started to feel more town based on that. irrel d1 was p good knowing where the poe is now and who has flipped what. also looks unaligned with GL cause i think he kinda nailed it in his early callout of what was off about GL's vibes. dann's entrance was actually quite good in terms of pushing in places that probably have scum, same goes to shea, and both i think just lately haven't felt like they're positioning to protect scum or angling to gain cred in any way, they're just doing their thing and i think they're town. i can pull posts to go more in depth if people really are interested in my thoughts there but idk if it's super necessary rn

wait hold up it's super necessary lol

this is just a giant ball of circular reasoning, is it not? You say you think Relly/Dann are probably good because they're pushing on probable scum (Frog/Mena/GL), how is that anything but just assuming your conclusion?

particularly this:

both i think just lately haven't felt like they're positioning to protect scum or angling to gain cred in any way, they're just doing their thing and i think they're town

is like... astonishingly weak analysis coming from you here? based on how I know you to play as town

and to be clear I'm not saying I've put forth a lot of

better

analysis yet, but like, man this is underwhelming reasoning for Dann/Shea town. I happen to agree on Shea town but like I'd like to think I could write up a bunch of better reasons this "just doing their thing"

yea ok i can go look for the posts that made me think this later if people care, i just felt like if i did a wall for why everyone is scum and also why everyone else is town then nobody is gonna read any of them

the reasoning isn't circular bc my scumreads on you/mena/frog are not dependent on my townreads on dann/shea

but you're totally right that im making a lot of assumptions here and it's probably not a great idea to go all in into this line of thinking but i can't help it, it's what i saw

[fireisredsir]

I dunno like maybe we're in the world where it's Frog/Mena in which case I don't wanna get in a big fight with you over simply me being offended at being scumread, and I wanna read your case

if you wanted a good faith reply from me, what are things you'd like me to address specifically. cause just skimming it now I'm already disagreeing with things but I don't wanna like, deconstruct everything if it's a waste of time

prob the biggest thing that you could actually answer that would help would be if you could convince me why you wanted to wagon obscure suddenly after HEM claimed

or if you could find me another scum lol

[fireisredsir]

also to be clear i would always prefer to lim mena today (or maybe frog, ig) even though i have the least points made about him

[fireisredsir]

i would also be kinda surprised if you stuck 3 scum partners in your townreads in an early readlist but that's another thing that i feel like is too dumb/easily fakeable for wifom purposes that i shouldn't give it much weight

[fireisredsir]

well you wouldn't have expected vp to flip is the point, but yea

[fireisredsir]

also like i do recognize that when i was rereading i noticed that my own interactions and how i treated flipped scum and how i pushed for town are not really much better than GL's so like... idk. i kinda went into this reread accepting that i was gonna die soon anyway and just wanting to solve first, and i maybe still should

but yea it is always possible that GL is just wrong place wrong time... a lot

most of it is pretty believable from town

[fireisredsir]

I am hoping people have had better reasons to town read Nero than just Gamma getting mad at Nero

I've seen Gamma get very emotional towards scum mates more than once

im p sure i did, but ill give nero/you/shea a re-look over to remind myself what i saw that made me think town

[fireisredsir]

oh yea one of the nero points was that he was one of the key players in shifting momentum towards tweet

[fireisredsir]

or starting momentum towards gamma earlier in the day, idk, maybe it was both

[fireisredsir]

gn

[fireisredsir]

idk i remember him being p annoying in that lol especially towards mid game, i can pull stuff up later but i did re-look at it when someone mentioned it and realized that i had forgotten how much he leaned into the "town frog has wild conspiracy theories" angle

[fireisredsir]

like i remember he accused me of cheating by using info from ongoing games bc i wouldn't have any other way of knowing his townrange (bc apparently its unbelievable that i read bunnies lol)

and he went on this all caps rant about how his scum partner titus was a serial killer

and his push on vp was super over the top aggressive at times

[fireisredsir]

i have no idea what titus is talking about tbh someone let me know when something concrete is said

yeeting mena good, im down to do that whenever we're ready to move on

[fireisredsir]

if csf is scum then uhh i don't get the enchant shot, but that would at least allow GL to be town which i kind of want him to be

[fireisredsir]

i haven't gone back to read fire's case yet but my big hangup there is that gamma was doing a thing where he was voting frog while fosing obscure and it seemed unlikely he'd just be bussing both partners in that fashion

yea i remember thinking that felt not S/S/S but like... idk it's probably not out of range for gamma to pull that as scum in an attempted wifom. i dunno if i want to rule them out as a team just off that when a lot of other things make it seem likely

p sure i do remember a certain someone saying that gamma had a bad habit of bussing her whole team as scum

that could be false but i don't want to try to fact check rn

[fireisredsir]

I think I can go for a Menalque + CSF team if we can townread DV based on the end of day where Morning got flipped.

i think i do

[fireisredsir]

yea nero had csf as top scum recently

[fireisredsir]

Ausuka
Dannflor
Menalque
fireisredsir
------------------------
Datisi
Thestatusquo
Frogsterking
scamper
GuiltyLion
DeasVail
Cat Scratch Fever

if you are referring to this fire

Nero clarified that his reads list was reversed lol

oh lmao i missed that

[fireisredsir]

i haven't gone back to read fire's case yet but my big hangup there is that gamma was doing a thing where he was voting frog while fosing obscure and it seemed unlikely he'd just be bussing both partners in that fashion

yea i remember thinking that felt not S/S/S but like... idk it's probably not out of range for gamma to pull that as scum in an attempted wifom. i dunno if i want to rule them out as a team just off that when a lot of other things make it seem likely

p sure i do remember a certain someone saying that gamma had a bad habit of bussing her whole team as scum

that could be false but i don't want to try to fact check rn

i took a look at lost and it was p conclusively not true there and he tried defending teammates a fair deal there unless they were getting significant pressure in which case he'd bus (which would make that hem vote everyone rightly called gamma out on Notable). that is probably somewhat complicated by it being a hydra but idk not worth spending too much time trying to sort that out

ofc this gets a wrench thrown in the works if csf is scum

ok went and found it my memory was of this, its prob outdated info atp tho anyway

Spoiler:

I flagged for him that he had a bad habit of putting his entire mafiateam in the scumpile across a good 4/5 games and he proceeded to do it again for another two.

[fireisredsir]

also lmao dann/GL if that was really scum!shea forgetting that scum!csf had a fake vig claim that would be hilarious

[fireisredsir]

lowkey CSF has been scummy since replace in but

[fireisredsir]

if this is real i am so confused by nero

[fireisredsir]

didn't the even night shoot enchant tho am i making that up

[fireisredsir]

if its csf/shea btw i think the 3rd is prob frog not mena

shea/obscure seemed really unpaired to me

but we can flip mena anyway since this is like 5 steps ahead of ourselves

[fireisredsir]

lmaoooo

[fireisredsir]

ig i don't feel as good about clearing DV either in this world, would have to take another look

[fireisredsir]

yea agreed

[fireisredsir]

who said that hem vs shea on shea entrance was absurdly theatrical, was that you scamper lol

[fireisredsir]

i think tsq and hem are scum together

wjy?

theyre defending each other for poor reasons

hem is trying to attack/discredit sheas detractors

irrelephant gave that awful post count read on hem and townread him for no good reason

hem also townreadirrelephant for awful reasons initially

hem swearing at shea on entry was absurdly theatrical and they backed down quickly and since then hes basically made no effort to interact with tsq

[fireisredsir]

ooo me too i want to join

[fireisredsir]

ok

VOTE: csf

[fireisredsir]

we're trying our best

[fireisredsir]

wild how new info makes games more fun and maybe we should flip people instead of slogging through 100 pages on d1 and 120 pages on d2

[fireisredsir]

i read someone say once that the later in the game the first scumflip happens, the more it favors the town

idk if thats true or not but its an interesting idea

[fireisredsir]

maybe it wasn't strictly that but like, its a bigger momentum shift

[fireisredsir]

hope u feel better ausuka

[fireisredsir]

sounds fun

[fireisredsir]

flip

where

:<

[fireisredsir]

i don't think the shea/gamma interactions are clearing but i kinda thought the shea/obscure ones are? especially both of them together?? so like with mena flipping scum i don't think that would be where i'd want to go first

i think its frog, would like to look at dv again now that im not thinking it's GL

which btw i don't think it is anymore bc i don't really think the issues i had with his pushing for wagoning obscure to get the HEM shot away from his partner really make sense at all with HEM being scum

[fireisredsir]

i guess it's not impossible reading it again but idk seems p unlikely to me

[fireisredsir]

i assume she meant 2 bc otherwise the math doesn't check out but still, that would be a lot

[fireisredsir]

I'm tracker, Shea or fire killed whoever died last night.

the rare multitasking 2-shot night 4 tracker

[fireisredsir]

i do remember when i was doing my reread thinking that one of the few places frog kinda looked townie was where he was defending hem, who at the time i was considering conftown

hmmmm oops

[fireisredsir]

yea that was very kind of you i appreciate it

[fireisredsir]

yea mb on that lol

[fireisredsir]

i don't think it was meant to be taken as real

[fireisredsir]

i kinda thought the shea/obscure ones are? especially both of them together?? so like with mena flipping scum i don't think that would be where i'd want to go first

can you link/explain this one pls

entering with accusing your partner of faking being new for townreads seems like a kinda grimy approach

he then did p consistently push for him to be under suspicion, and had gamma/obscure as two of his top scumreads along with ss

the way he handled gamma felt like it could easily be performance to me, like he really wanted people to know that he suspected gamma, but the obscure push i don't really get that feeling at all

and yea he did back off obscure p quickly after entering, but then he got right back on after not very long. it just feels like a lot more of a pure push to me than the gamma one

4812 maybe the biggest thing tho, like that just seems like straight up throwing as scum and i don't think he should be considered off that unless we really are running out of options

[fireisredsir]

oh wait i forgot hem wasn't a real vig lmao hmm

[fireisredsir]

i guess that makes it not hard clearing but eh still

[fireisredsir]

i guess that makes it not hard clearing but eh still

Can you explain the reasoning of how it's anti associated?

idk partly depends if scum thought there was a real vig or not. ig they might assume the vig would shoot hem

but either way he is still pushing 2 scum partners as his strongest choices for elimination there

[fireisredsir]

im vt

[fireisredsir]

if y'all don't ever flip frog this game i will be big mad

we should never have lost the go game

[fireisredsir]

i just feel like everyone is bringing up points that we've already talked about and idk im tired

[fireisredsir]

no i have no objections to being yeeted

[fireisredsir]

if y'all don't ever flip frog this game i will be big mad

this doesn't really feel genuine given your trajectory on frog

why not?

[fireisredsir]

i think he's playing better but i think he's capable of improvement

[fireisredsir]

idk i just don't really think it's anyone else atp

and like 90% of my points about frog were unrelated to GL and mostly about his interactions with flipped scum + mena

and i think he looks even worse with the hem flip

[fireisredsir]

i think the only real point in frog's favor is gamma's placement of him on a couple lists and like

yes i agree that would be surprising, we've talked about that post already, but im not really okay with clearing someone on that when i think everything else makes them the most likely candidate for scum

[fireisredsir]

if y'all don't ever flip frog this game i will be big mad

this doesn't really feel genuine given your trajectory on frog

why not?

im not digging up receipts right now but i feel like before you cased frog you at one point felt pretty strongly that this was frog's town game

i guess maybe you getting big mad about someone you've only more recently gotten confident about doesn't match up with my image of you as a player

thats tru i don't ever really get big mad

i would be a little annoyed tho because in 238 im p sure i remember laying out a poe of like 4 people and it had 3 scum in it

and then we ended up yeeting the 1 town and then i got nk'd and then town kept making excuses for frog and then we lost

in that game i was also townreading frog like the entire game until i realized that was dumb lol

[fireisredsir]

the only smart person saying frog is scum rn is me i think

and a dead scamper

[fireisredsir]

that isn't a dig at other people not being smart btw i just don't think anyone else really thinks he's scum which is what makes me concerned that if i die then he will win

[fireisredsir]

anyway would love to have it explained why town frog suddenly flips on MT and mena when they replace in after previously townreading both slots and pushing back against suspicion there

like literally get scamper back in here

it's not about what his scum plan is. sometimes scum do things just for the sake of being unpredictable. sometimes it's hard to understand their motivations

what matters is whether the actions make sense from a town mindset

they don't

[fireisredsir]

why would it not be partnered frog has tmi that mena is scum and thinks its dumb that town won't let him bus him

in 238 late game the whole scum team including frog was trying their hardest to bus eyes and then town wouldn't let them

[fireisredsir]

idc just please do not let him live to the end of the game

[fireisredsir]

i mean my reads aren't great either but i do not think thats at all a valid reason to clear someone especially when that someone is frog

[fireisredsir]

no i was talking to ausuka not you

[fireisredsir]

clearly this is your bias for frogs as an animal showing smh

[fireisredsir]

i think mena prob just knew that obscure had already claimed VT, idk if its meaningful

frog asked him to claim on entrance and mena ignored him

[fireisredsir]

how much of that case became void once csf and obscure flipped? i have a half baked thought about it, this is a reminder to myself to look at it again

it made me smile :>

[fireisredsir]

oop not that, the dann thing

[fireisredsir]

the case was like all about GL/mena but i don't think the biggest point at least makes sense with csf/hem scum

[fireisredsir]

thank you GL i can rest peacefully now

slay the frog

[fireisredsir]

DeasVail (6): fireisredsir, Ausuka, marcistar, Frogsterking, Enchant, obscure
obscure (5): GuiltyLion, Datisi, Nero Cain, scamper, Dannflor
humaneatingmonkey (2): Ydrasse, Gamma Emerald
Thestatusquo (1): humaneatingmonkey
fireisredsir (1): Thestatusquo
Morning Tweet (1): DeasVail
Not voting (1): Something_Smart
Day 1 will end in (expired on 2022-09-18 20:44:00). With 17 alive it takes 9 to eliminate.

i was looking at datisis reasons for dv town and this one like

yes its towny for deas but that kinda suggests that scum besides obscure is probably on deas

and it isn't me

[fireisredsir]

if scum aren't pushing the counterwagon to 2 scum wagons then there's no real reason to think that counterwagon is town

[fireisredsir]

um

my point is that deas is town and frog is scum

[fireisredsir]

or me whatever

[fireisredsir]

they can be

im saying if someone wanted to use it as a point for deas town

then that someone should consider the implications of that point

[fireisredsir]

this is the stupidest thing to argue about but sure why not

why else would that vc make deas town?

[fireisredsir]

actually nvm this is the reason the game is 330 pages, there's no point, let's not

[fireisredsir]

dv with the first like actually decent reasons for frog town so now idk

[fireisredsir]

wow I think that's the towniest post frogster has made all game

why

[fireisredsir]

gamma can you elaborate on your HEM read? that feels unpopular

dannflor felt townier in the moment when i first started reading the thread, but i thought the person they subbed in for was really scummy.

obscure, what about my 8 post predecessor was really scummy?

@thestatusquo I am a new player. I'm not asking to be seen as townie for it as I do have experience with social deduction games but I would prefer if you respect the fact that I am new regardless because... what you're saying is coming across as quite offensive when I'm only trying to figure things out. Maybe I seem dumb but subbing into a game for the first time in so many pages as my first game ever isn't exactly easy.

More thoughts tomorrow.

mmmmm over under on the sincerity here?

VOTE: gamma

Gamma why is HEM scum

this series of 5 posts in a row all about flipped scum isn't like clearing but i think he would be self-conscious about focusing so much on his partners

[fireisredsir]

lmao right after that i talked him into a hem townread oops yea flip me

[fireisredsir]

he also just really consistently was not only voting but actively pushing for wagons on obscure and gamma (and joined the hem wagon when that was a thing)

and if he is scum he would have been spending a lot of that time looking for a paranoia out onto me, even voting me at one point, and just generally being wary

but after ausuka drops her case on me,

VOTE: morning tweet

he goes to tweet instead, and in context i think this is the vote that kills tweet. he didn't have to place it at all

like its possible he's just bussing his whole team (obviously any possible scum remaining did some amount of bussing) but like compared to frog none of it feels like it's tmi'd or unnatural or opportunistic

[fireisredsir]

yea it is thats why it's like the 5th time im making it

[fireisredsir]

lmao right after that i talked him into a hem townread oops yea flip me

I will be honest and I feel a little sick saying this because I would hate if I just had a bad game and this was applied to me, but some of my suspicion towards you is simply burden of proficiency

you were also pretty consistently against the obscure wagon

no im well aware

like there's a reason why i haven't cared to ask anyone for any real cases or reasons why im scum

ik how things look and it's fair enough

[fireisredsir]

i do think you are being extremely generous to frog here tho

[fireisredsir]

Subject: Open 831: Hanahaki Disease [game over!]

redtea/T3/Pooky
that's the team right there.

3 scum game, teammates were t3 and pooky

Subject: Mini Normal 2193 | A Member Of The SKs | Town Wins!

I could see something like italiano/Itb/cookie

3 scum game, teammates were italiano and itb



prism said he put all his scum partners in his scum pile over like a period of 6 or 7 maf games, i didn't see anything to that level, or it happening in a large, but i might have missed some stuff

i don't think it's at all impossible that he would suspect 3 partners tho

[fireisredsir]

Trust: scamper, Ausuka,

Aristeia, xofelf

, ydrasse, fireisredsir,

marcistar

Middle ground: DeasVail, Firebringer,

Nero Cain

,

VP Baltar

, Dannflor, GuiltyLion, Irrelephant11
Distrust:

ConManMick

, Datisi,

humaneatingmonkey

, Frogsterking, obscure

is this 4 or 5 scum?
does Gamma put at least 1 buddy on each line? If yes who is the scum from the top line?

I'm tentatively onboard with a mena flip if his content is lacking. I still think GL/Relly slot is scummy lol

I'd say probably 1-1-1 or 0-2-1 or 0-1-2

probably not all 3 on one line lol

I think this is probably true, and we know its not 0-2-1.

So with the assumption that its probably not 0-0-3 that makes frogsterking unlikely.

also its not 0-0-3

it's 5 scum, so it's 1-1-2, 0-2-2, or 0-1-3

[fireisredsir]

no, dann wasn't, so i thought it was worth clarifying

his post was with the assumption of 4 scum

[fireisredsir]

frog is still voting himself

you gotta admit it would be p funny to lim him before he notices and can take that off

[fireisredsir]

Recency bias. I'm burned out because this Town is fucking annoying not because I'm lying lmao

earlier it was a strategic decision?

If Titus thinks Shea is a misvig then it's probably fire. I'm probably going to continue lurking, it seems like chiming in periodically is an effective playstyle for me once the early game is complete.

[fireisredsir]

VOTE: frogsterking

[fireisredsir]

lmao

[fireisredsir]

we all have skill issue tbh

[fireisredsir]

frog why is it that all game you have incredibly strong opinions on who is scum at any given moment and now it doesn't seem like you're even trying to figure out who is scum

[fireisredsir]

if it's not frogster my other idea is just that Titus is a serial killer lmao

actually possible lol

[fireisredsir]

Where's fire's boring case from like a million pages ago? Fire did you post a crazier one or did you just keep desperately trying to pocket people today?

i didn't even have to try to pocket people they just hopped in all by themselves :>

[fireisredsir]

Did frog get hammered?

no there were only ever 3 votes i think

[fireisredsir]

also idk maybe im gullible (i am) but i don't think obscure was faking to that extent. he def did play up his newness a bit to hide behind tho

i was more surprised by him saying he was an english teacher tbh i didn't get those vibes at all

as for his read on me i don't think there was a lot of intent on walking it back? he townread me p hard like right after that and continued to so do i think

[fireisredsir]

You said that you're worried about being limmed because of being fourth on datisi's list?

Ok, perhaps i just misunderstood your intent. I was kind of baffled by the idea that you would think you were in any danger of being limmed here.

yea this wasn't really my interpretation

it felt kinda out of nowhere but i didn't get "worried", it was more like "ok whatever do what you want"

[fireisredsir]

i mean my mindset rn is that i think the poe is correct and also i kinda expected to not be alive at this point

everyone else feels p genuine and have things from earlier in the game to make me think they're not scum

and even shea i think is a lot less likely to be scum than frog

like yea i could be wrong on frog. i am never fully confident in anything. i was rereading ktane this morning and seeing just how unbelievable a lot of frog's progressions were in there so yea, i get it, it's possible that he does this as town. but he also reverts to lurking and lack of any more real solving in lategame when he's scum, just like he's doing here. and none of his latest posting feels like anything that would take any real town thought to make

im very aware that people would townread me for paranoiaing on someone towny here. that would prob be my gameplan if i were scum. it's something that is easy and fun for me to do. but i don't think it's something that is actually towny. and i don't think it would be useful to town for me to let my doubts lead me in random other directions

[fireisredsir]

and im also aware that yesterday with me casing GL is like p close to how i would play things as scum (maybe? probably? idk the csf thing makes it weird, i dunno how i would have dealt with that) and so like yes i get it

[fireisredsir]

I don't know how fireisred plays normally, but one of the things that's skeeved me out the literal whole game is he seems very interested in pointing out minor inconsistencies in things people say but doesn't seem interested in talking about people Sussing him at all. I remember a very consistent pattern of him not responding to points against him from me for like most of the game, and I wasn't really sure if I found that to be townie or scummy. I think that at the very least the thing you're calling out here has been pretty consistent the whole game. Whether thats a component of town!fire's game normally I have no idea.

i don't really remember any actual points you've made against me tbh

ik a lot of people like to read and sort others based on suspicion of themselves but thats not really something i tend to do, im usually more interested in looking at how people interact with each other

[fireisredsir]

i think that generally i have a p good idea of what people's expectations for me are

it means that as scum i enjoy playing around those expectations and i think it's one of my strengths

but as town it usually means that i am like, more understanding than i maybe should be about people's scumreads on me? cause its like, okay, i see you had these expectations of how i should play, and i didn't meet those, so it's fair that you suspect me

the one place where i find it useful for sorting is if someone that I know is pushing using reasoning that they should really know better about, but thats actually pretty rare

it does make me easier to lim tho so idk maybe i should have more scrutiny on the scumreads on me

but like rn i don't feel like any of them are at all unreasonable, besides frog, but his suspicion on me isn't even part of why i suspect him bc being unreasonable is not out of character for him as town

[fireisredsir]

actually thinking about it, as someone who doesn't really like arguing or being around emotional arguments at all, idk why i play this game lmao

[fireisredsir]

the biggest thing is that for like the majority of this game frog hasn't actually had any reads of his own

he doesn't now

he started the game just building a towncore and then deciding who to push based on their suspicions (which, as i said at the time, is probably the most pro-town ive ever seen frog play. it was p useful and i think helped us have good directions to push as a town. i think multiple people at the time myself included said that if frog was scum he was probably bussing his whole team, and we might as well let him)

the only time he's really displayed that extreme overconfidence has been with tweet and mena, and both of those had basically no basis behind them, they just flipped from townreads to scumreads as soon as they replaced in

in midgame he did have a strong suspicion on SS, and even apparently went through meta to try to back it up. i think that read is one of the towniest things he's done individually. but i still think the overall pattern is tone-matching the confidence of his towngame but without any actual support behind it

[fireisredsir]

and i don't think that matches up with his town play

frog town absolutely has reads. they're usually pretty out there, but he definitely has them, and he will let you know about them, and there is actual thought going on behind them

which is why i don't think his response about how everyone's case on him is trash but still hesitant to really call anyone scum off it is not towny at all

[fireisredsir]

meh idk

i guess i just think it is in [fire, frogster]

hey me too

[fireisredsir]

idk the enchant shot makes sense to me, he suspected them, enchant is usually a slot that gets elimmed at some point

[fireisredsir]

he argued with you a lot but i don't think you were his strongest scumread?

[fireisredsir]

Something_Smart
Enchant
obscure

I'd add TSQ and Dann but thats more of a hero vig FMPOV

[fireisredsir]

my face isn't straight but he would shoot enchant over you

[fireisredsir]

I was wondering if he was fixed in his scum read of you because he literally has to

like you're the only other viable elimination right now

and I don't really buy he actually scum reads Deas

i mean yea, I'm also the person pushing for him strongest so him suspecting me isn't going to change gamestate at all in the way that a suspicion on someone else might, so it's both the most convenient and the safest option

[fireisredsir]

i don't think his play makes a ton of sense but i do think that he would shoot enchant over you

i agree that it's weird he didn't shoot hem but i don't think it's weird that he didn't shoot you

[fireisredsir]

true yea if he was SK he would be more likely to shoot you if anything

[fireisredsir]

I don't know how much more productive I can be today, I feel like I'm just talking myself in circles over and over again

This game is so large and I think if I stare at it long enough I can find a reason to town or scum read everyone

this is exactly what i was saying lol

like i don't think it's productive for me to stare at it longer bc i will just find a way to talk my way out of things or into things and where im at rn, i think that's more likely to hurt town than help

[fireisredsir]

true yea if he was SK he would be more likely to shoot you if anything

What, no way? I was huge lim bait that whole day and enchant replaced in and most people had declared them as "doing something" which was "townie." I remember this because I was suspicious of them because the "something" they were doing didnt seem like much to me.

What is this revisionist history?

ig he might not if he actually thought you were scum lol but still i don't think he would shoot enchant of all people

[fireisredsir]

which is why i don't think his response about how everyone's case on him is trash but still hesitant to really call anyone scum off it is not towny at all

i had an extra negative in here but you get the idea

i don't think its towny

[fireisredsir]

he also wasn't in hammer range he was on like 2 or 3 votes

[fireisredsir]

which is why i don't think his response about how everyone's case on him is trash but still hesitant to really call anyone scum off it is not towny at all

i had an extra negative in here but you get the idea

i don't think its towny

This is probably scum for trying to discredit obvtown!frog for bad reasons guess? This is such an incredibly dense point to come from Fire. I don't think that when I screamed in bold underlined large text to close your eyes and hammer Dease or Fire I earned the label of "hesitant to call anyone scum."

VOTE: fireisred

Get BoPed

do you actually think deas is scum

that wasn't really the impression i got, it seemed like you were just making a case for the sake of making a case

[fireisredsir]

i could be wrong tbh

[fireisredsir]

sorry i don't really have much to add at this point

i did start to have some doubts but idk if it's useful to entertain them

i think my reasons to townread everyone else are stronger anyway

[fireisredsir]

sorry i don't really have much to add at this point

i did start to have some doubts but idk if it's useful to entertain them

i think my reasons to townread everyone else are stronger anyway

are they specific doubts

what frog said in 8552 kinda makes sense at least

i also was just thinking about things probably too much and started to think i could see frog being town but that was less specific, more just a vague feeling from thinking about how he's played as scum before

[fireisredsir]

that said, nothing he's done on the last few pages feels remotely believable to me, so

[fireisredsir]

that said, nothing he's done on the last few pages feels remotely believable to me, so

This is a scum line FYI

everything you post is just extremely hollow

there's nothing behind it, you're just posting conclusions and then refusing to show any of the thought process that led you to those conclusions

[fireisredsir]

i showed my thought process for why i don't find your posting believable, how exactly is it projection?

it's your turn

[fireisredsir]

lylo

I forgot, it's not even lylo yet, is it fire?

there's 9 alive lol

[fireisredsir]

he's been suspecting me all game and still wants me limmed that makes no sense

[fireisredsir]

tbh i think it is actually inexcusable to let this live

before i was fine with being flipped first but he's just trolling atp

[fireisredsir]

I feel like what fire is doing makes more sense as a scum strategy than what frog is doing fwiw and I think my vote there is better right now. Pushing frog is like, idk I think pretty easy to do here because he's being so aggro and it's difficult to understand. Sorry frog.

seems like a pretty effective strategy if people are gonna townread him for it and let him get away with it all game!

just bc pushing frog is easy doesn't mean it isn't correct

sometimes scummy people are scum

[fireisredsir]

bc it isn't relevant to the game and also tomorrow isn't elo

[fireisredsir]

I feel like what fire is doing makes more sense as a scum strategy than what frog is doing fwiw and I think my vote there is better right now. Pushing frog is like, idk I think pretty easy to do here because he's being so aggro and it's difficult to understand. Sorry frog.

seems like a pretty effective strategy if people are gonna townread him for it and let him get away with it all game!

just bc pushing frog is easy doesn't mean it isn't correct

sometimes scummy people are scum

i mean this hardly seems like he's getting away with it or whatever

that sure would be nice

[fireisredsir]

ty