NY 183 - Apocalypse Mafia

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Hello!

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Don't vote me, I'm VT

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Ah, okay, I didn't remember who you voted.

I should hope Rubicon's 'claim' is just an early game joke by a player who came in a bit too late to have it be taken in jest. Depends on his response.

Yes exactly.

VOTE: Boonskiies

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I should assume that one of the mafia is a role and something like 3 town are too right?

Only one mafia PR? I see.

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elusive has started well for her town meta, but two posts isn't much to go on.

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VOTE: Klingoncelt

It's on!

Yeah... not gonna say why just yet, but this is a scum post. More votes here please.

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It's just an RVS wagon...you really don't have a need to question it.

Look at you, not doing town things.

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Rubicon, what can't you disclose about 102? You're going to have to come out with it if you want my support. For the record, I didn't like it either, but I'm not going to wagon Boon until his case is proven to be more than throwing shit at the wall until it sticks.

Really? How come?

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I may not have liked 74, but before that I did actually have a townlean on BagelS.

What for? I think your point about him is pretty good, FWIW.

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Dunno, I actually liked 83 and 86.

How's your scum game these days, Nero?

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Grib, elusive and I have played together a lot offsite. We have a lot of meta knowledge about each other, and we tend to form a town bloc pretty fast when we're all town.

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Peacebringer, you're the same person as SKOT right?

Boonskiies, you're correct that this was a random wagon on you to see how you react, but so far your reaction has been pretty underwhelming and a little ick. You're not just saying "lol rvs wagon," you're actually trying to doubtcast Nero over it which is strange.

Ricastle, leaning town on Grib.

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:l

What's your lean based on?

Witty deflection of pressure isn't scummy by itself, imo. Grib's responses sound like he's simply not taking the pressure very seriously because he knows he's town and expects other people to pick up on that.

p-edit: Well that's a lot of words.

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So what happened (in that other game) is that Boons had claimed bulletproof. There was a conversation that "OMG he had to be scum b/c scum would claim bulletproofs" So yes, I agreed that its plausible that he was scum fakeclaiming bulletproof and/or legit bulletproof but didn't see the need to vote him that day and I had felt that there were scummier slots so we only needed to lynch Boon if we are having trouble finding scum. Wich, hey, is pretty fucking reasonable (and also the correct play b/c he wasn't scum) So anyways, Boon, in all his viness, took offense to this 'cause I guess he felt that I was scum and was trying to bus all my buddies ('cause I wanted to hunt outside of Boon) and leave him as a mislynch (after I leave a trail of dead buddies) or something equally retarded. So anyways, we get to lylo and HE votes me right of the fucking bat, so yeah, I voted Boon so TSO had a choice of who he wanted to mislynch. 'cause I mean, it didn't really matter. So I feel like he is slightly twisting the narrative there. Which is actually kinda a red flag, like saying that I misread him and 'caused town to not win seems a bit discredity.

I wouldn't say that I'm really salty about it. I think his play was p poor and I'm not just saying that 'cause he tunneled on me but like his whole "I'm a vi, I do stupid things, hehe I'm trying to be cute and fluffy." I just feel like its a very annoying playstyle and I want nothing to do with him. I had actually replaced out of a game (or not joined it) b/c Boons was on the playlist. So yeah, I fully expect scum to go "oh look, Nero is voting Boons b/c he doesn't like him!" And, I won't lie, that is partly true.

So I figured why not start a wagon on Boons and see how he (and others) react and get the ball rolling and in the worse case scenario we lynch a p awesomely bad player...which actually seems like a good thing. Seems high reward; low risk to me.

What I'm getting out of this is that Boons is sort of right about your motives. Hm.

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For my part, I'm mostly over the fact that Boonskiies quicklynched me for terrible reasons in Micro 366. Mostly.

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I've also seen him play a much better town game since then, so I'm open to the possibility he's getting better.

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Ricastle: 154 sounds about right to me. His post about townhunting bothers me a little, since he recently used that line as a third party to explain a complete lack of scum reads. But we're only on page nine... I'm willing to give him time to get into the game.

:l

What's your lean based on?

Witty deflection of pressure isn't scummy by itself, imo. Grib's responses sound like he's simply not taking the pressure very seriously because he knows he's town and expects other people to pick up on that.

p-edit: Well that's a lot of words.

That can be faked as well and it doesn't mesh with his defensive panicked initial responses.

Which posts were panicky?

This looks like reaching for a reason to call him scum.

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nice to meet you... just because you do not understand does not make it difficult... but throw your tantrum, get it out of your system...

Perhaps if you weren't being so deliberately obtuse and cryptic we'd be getting somewhere. Why won't you answer my question? I don't care if the answer is obvious to you; if you're town, you have nothing bad to hide.

I am not hiding anything. Am I being obtuse and cryptic, at the moment. Guess what, I really do not care if I frustrate you. Things are going somewhere... I do not play like you do. This will be the case if I am transparent or not. My engagement is rather simple, yet it would take quite a bit to explain things to you and really would not be of benefit to the game as a whole. I do have you in town column though, so there is that. I really do not care what column you put me in.

What column do you have me in?

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Yes please

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Are you new to forum mafia Creative? You said you play by video a lot.

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VOTE: Kitz

Let's do it.

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any town block with grib in it is a bad townblock that needs dismantling.

Too late.

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Flipping between town/scum on ricastle.

I liked that Ricastle looked up one of Grib's older games and ask about his meta.

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Pointy

,

Errant

townies

What makes you think they're town? I don't have a good grasp on those two yet.

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Wanting to dismantle town blocs is a bit scummy.

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I still lean town on Grib.

What's your read on davesaz?

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I probably wouldn't lynch Garmr for suspecting Grib, but I might lynch him for the stretchy reasoning he used in 193.

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I get the impression Garmr is reaction-testing.

Grib, sometimes your posts sound so much like The Witch that it's scary.

Pointy

,

Errant

townies

What makes you think they're town? I don't have a good grasp on those two yet.

Errant

is the most inquisitive player so far, posts 244 and 250 shows that he is re-avaliating his own reads.

What i most liked about

Pointy

was post 156 it seemed he is not only paying attention to what's happening but also the timeline of the events. And i ended up agreeing on what was said about

Davesaz

, mostly because of post120 wich to be fair strike me more as odd than scummy but odd is not a good sign.

These are good points.

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Also, just so everyone knows I do have a tiny teensy defending people problem, or rare or somewhat a bit higher then rare it can become a white knighting problem. So make me question the people I like just because they're fun to play with.

I suspect I also have this problem.

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The Grib conversation is boring.

Dislike Skold's defense of Kitz when she's at L-8.
VOTE: Skold

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that would cause more trouble for me

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A town block is a group of players with strong townreads on each other who are able to work together more effectively because of that.

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Hey Kitz, why are so many people rising up to defend you? Have you played with them before? Is it your feline (vixen?) charm?

This many defending me, I think it's justified by that Grib basically picked someone on a random-lottery, said their scummy, and then stuff burns. If he picked another out of the blue, they'd probably defend that victim too.

And the only players I know that are in this game are you Elusive, Klingon, Grib, Boonskiies, Shinobi. Oh wait, one of them is the host.

What do you think of Skold's post in particular?

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The fact she ask for rubicon permission to vote me is weird

pretty sure that didn't happen, at least

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Wrong
this did happen

She's echoing my phrasing from this previous post in a kind of sardonic way:

I probably wouldn't lynch Garmr for suspecting Grib, but I might lynch him for the stretchy reasoning he used in 193.

I wasn't asking her for permission, so I don't think she was asking me for permission either.

That said, I don't think you're intentionally lying here, just misunderstanding.

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With all these townreads I'm getting I'm seriously worried for my safety tonight.

Creative, Rubicon, Nero, Grib, are any of you up for a jbomber wagon?

All right.
VOTE: jbomber

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I'll try not to read into that too much.

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unvote

obviously

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Let's not end the day yet.

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Well I don't know why you're replacing out, but sorry to see you go.

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I think Garmr's probably town for that last post.

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If Garmr were scum, the VT claim puts his replacement in an awkward position by making it harder to fake claim later, especially if watched or tracked targeting someone.

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VOTE: megalo

come out and play

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I didn't really have a reason for voting jbomber. I just wanted to wagon someone.

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Yes, that's the plan, unless you're implying you have a better one.

One better plan would be to pressure someone else you scumread, until a replacement arrives.

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I have townreads. You, elusive, Grib, Nero, Creative, PeaceBringer, Garmr and (less confidently) Skold.

boons is a little scummy.

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REPLACEMENTS

YESS

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ba dum tish

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elusive has a fun way with words

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peace strikes me as town

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also I don't really want to lynch vampirate now that he's doing stuff

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what's your mafia experience

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UNVOTE: Pin -- er, I mean UNVOTE: House

Gonna catch up on this soon.

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VOTE: Bellaphant

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I'll leave it here that I despise meta. As in, to the point of refusing to read people's other games. I think that mafia should be entirely internal though I think I am the 1% on this site for that.

Do you think that it doesn't work, or that it's against the spirit of the game?

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Hi Boon

Any reads?

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@Nero, irl stuff.

I have townreads on both of these wagons. I'll skim ISOs and see which one I'm less confident about.

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Hm, I have a lot of townreads off that wagon.

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The Doc must have protected someone fairly townread/obvious. I'd say the most likely of which would have to be me, BagelS, or Nero. I'll see if I can find anything based off of that now.

Not crazy about the way you're positioning yourself as obvious town or likely to have been shot at.

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I was the unchallenged most townread player D1 and it's funny how you think you can question that. Creative, Peace, Errant, Grib, Rubicon, House, and I think BagelS (?) all townread me. That's 6-7 players off the top of my head. I realise this comes off as extremely arrogant but I'm only bringing it up to destabilise your unfounded discredit.

This implicitly assumes those 6-7 players are all town and that none of us are scum trying to buddy up to you. Why?

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Kitz post is meh enough that I can get on that wagon

Gee, I just got here. The game didn't start on the specified time, so I lagged out until I refreshed.

That doesn't explain the meh post.

The only reason I can see house doing that would've been if the existing wagon was on another scum, and would he have been so blatant? Actaully...

Actually what?

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Rubicon: That's not relevant in this angle of discussion.

Consider it a new angle, then. My question stands.

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What makes me more Meh than anyone else here for an opening? What makes me so much more troubling?
I even freaking contributed by sharing my thoughts about the possibilities.

These could be Meh.

What? You mean I

didn't

Serial Kill anyone to the face?

Sorry, Ricastle. I'm disappointed too.

Hm, I have a lot of townreads off that wagon.

say something not-meh

No it doesn't. I already explained the only reason I had for making that statement. The point was specifically about material townreads, their legitimacy be damned. I'm not assuming anything as it is not a decisive take on the game, merely a counterpoint to elusive's.

The point I'm making has nothing to do with your reply to elusive. It's actually something House pointed out as early as yesterday, in this post. You can't say "their legitimacy be damned" because you wouldn't be killed if they were illegitimate.

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bellaphant, can you explain the reasoning for your Skold vote please?

Ricastle, 1231 seems anti-town. Why did you ask that?

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Creative and ricastle are virtually unreadable. they don't bleed town and don't bleed scum. both interact with others minimalistically and leave reading them near-impossible.

Hm. I wouldn't say this is my impression of either of them.

He also votes very opportunistically and barely at all.

What seemed opportunistic about his votes?

They seem genuine at a face level but what he's actually saying never adds up to what I presume si truth.

I dunno man, this sentence is like a textbook example of words that sound meaningful but actually mean nothing.

Skold and Klingon seem equally scummy to me. Neither seems to be paying much attention and both seem to not relate well with anyone else (yet, despite being abrasive, neither is being lynched indicating partners looking out for them).

I'm guessing you've only read part of the game by this point. But then, the last part is kind of a weird conclusion to reach based on only reading part of the game.

So yeah, there are some things about this post that strike me as off. I do like that you're diving right in and sharing your thoughts though.

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prod dodge
kind of v/la right now, but should have more free time after tomorrow

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My schedule opened up so I'll be catching up.

I agree with Errant's assessment of the wagons, though I'm wary of Ricastle. KC is one of those players who can come across quite scummy when she's town, but she feels different from the last time I played with town-her so she could be scum.

I was pretty sure Xay was town last time I paid attention, so I probably won't vote that unless he did something super scummy that I missed.

bellaphant has been rubbing me wrong all game, so that's another scum read.

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Reads from my notes - these are from before Madman replaced in so they're definitely going to change as I catch up:

Town

elusive
Grib
Davesaz
Creative

Don't want to lynch

Xayzeck
Ricastle
PeaceBringer
Nero Cain
davesaz

Possible scum

Kitz
PointYBagelS
House (r. Megalo)
Errantparabola
Vampirate (r. jbomber732)
Klingoncelt
Boonskiies
Bellaphant (r. bewilderbeast)

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I'll elaborate on those reads once I read more.

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VOTE: Klingoncelt for now.

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People at the top are townier.

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Grib, on a scale from 1-10 confidence how confirmed town is davesaz? I had him as townish early on, but he's been coasting a lot day 2.

Players posting a lot day one and then starting to lurk is a firm scum tell.

Forget I said that part.

please explain you sitting back, making comments, pushing things forward but not really engaging- too much 1v1 is an excuse...

Agreed.

bellaphant is cautious scum, asking a few probing questions here and there to look like she's scumhunting, but not doing anything to stick her neck out or drive the game forward.

Also the way she buddied up to Ricastle for asking people to consolidate on a wagon looked very suspicious to me.

Rubicon is like that person or star or thing that makes you think everything is going to be okay. <3

hey!
Sorry for lurking so much in the game you invited me to play.

I feel like my townread on you is probably correct. Which players should I be looking more closely at? Ricastle?

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I'm going to read the fuck out of your case right now, ricastle.

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Hm. I kind of like it.

KC, please reply to Ricastle's case on you. And explain why you haven't already.

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Why don't you explain the case rationally without sounding like a bit crazed?

Klingon FoSed Nero on the basis that he has a chance of being scum, and seemingly nothing more. (1245) She then went on to make out Nero was obsessing over it, which was suddenly the reason she was FoSing him? (1358) And then after some pressing from me & Nero she says that the reason she was suspecting Nero was because she didn't like how he dragged on the argument with House and was obsessing over him. (1377) After Nero then asked why she wasn't also FoSing House for it, she said she actually was FoSing House. However, it seems like the only reason for that is that her and House scumread eachother every game; even when she thinks House is town. (1384) (1387) (1475) This proves that it's not to be taken seriously, and was nothing more than an excuse used to avoid explaining why she isn't FoSing House over his obsession of Nero and dragging out the argument, of which they both did equally. After I called her out on all this she made some absurd threats which certainly does not look like town behaviour. (1391)

Long story short, Klingon panned suspicion onto Nero for no reason, used the subsequent events to try and justify it, and continuously avoided giving any further reasoning. When she did give reasoning, it was undermined instantly, and when she couldn't defend it, she devolved into OMGUSing and strawmanning until elusive showed up with an ACTUAL chainsaw.

Oh, and for non-recent events, we have 755, 881, 889, and 923 all in conjunction. She starts by attacking me on the basis that the townbloc is obvtown, then opportunistically jumping on "obvtown" Grib when he makes an obvious joke post, and for a time is apparently fine with lynching both me and Grib, despite the reason for her suspecting me being that Grib is obvtown. She immediately retracts her hasty read when I press her on it.

I guess this has been talked about to death by now, but that original reason for FoS-ing Nero still doesn't make much sense to me. And the sequence of posts listed in the last paragraph above... I really don't understand the progression there.

And

I'm wary of someone automatically accepting the "town block" as obvious town - the reasoning for it being town could apply to me (would I risk it as scum?) but from KC's perspective that shouldn't make the other two obvious town.

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1245 and 755 seem incongruous. One is excessively paranoid, the other is excessively trusting.

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@nero, 321 is a LOT of scum-reads. Apart from the mostly in actives, can you talk to me about klingoncelt?

@house, talk to me about your read on ricastle and klingoncelt?

re:kc, her posts over the last page or so have also seemed really off.She's pinging hard for me. Thanks.

I'm up for it.

VOTE: Klingoncelt

Anyways, how do people feel about my exchange between PointYBagelS and myself in post 1259 and 1265?

Eh, I dunno how I feel about this vote. Your quote post doesn't really show progression in your thoughts: maybe you should summarise your case?

KC: Reading through, some of her posts didn't read right: I was unsure if this was just tone, but her posting around the second half of the 30s was really pinging for me. After the lynch, when pressure started, she seems to be flailing. I've read her scum-link (providing the link seems towny, but could be a double bluff) and she seems to be having a bit more fun as scum? But that could be game specific, and her lack of strong reads here is pretty terrible

My pet theory is that these posts are an attempt at distancing and light bussing.

It started early, like distancing would.

Despite this suspicion, all her questions are directed toward others

about

KC, instead of toward KC herself.

Additionally she has never voted KC even now as a wagon is building.

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He's WKing Nero.

Not really. I think the problem is that your posts about Nero don't make sense. Someone calling you out for not making sense isn't white-knighting, even if they are attacking your read on another player.

The "case" is that I scumread Nero but not House, when in fact I always scumread House.

That isn't a good summary of his case on you. Would you respond to 1561 point by point?

In this game I'm not scumreading House as much as I am Nero. I have Nero ever so slightly

leaning

scum. But they're both grey.

My experience with Nero says he very often gets into 1v1s with other players when he's town. Confident reads are his playstyle.

Because he wants to avoid suspicion when I flip Town.

...This doesn't make a lot of sense either.

But does this mean you think Bellaphant is mafia?

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So, her frustration in this game feels more real than her faked frustration in those scum games. In her ISO here, compare the sequence of posts starting at 1317 with this post from the hilariously unbalanced mafia game:

People found my attitude off-putting.

But you know what - this is bullshit. NOBODY has found ANYONE that even slightly resembles Scum. I pointed out TWO FUCKING TEAMS.

AND YOU FUCKERS HAVE THE BALLS TO SUGGEST I'M SCUM?

FUCK ALL OF YOU. IN THE EYE. WITH A MANGY, SORE-COVERED, FLEA-INFESTED, GIANT SIZED SEWER RAT THAT'S INFECTED WITH FIRE AIDS.

FUCKING SHEEP ME, YOU FOOKIN' DERPMEISTERS. LYNCH EDDIE.


NOW.

...which is obviously fake.

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Oh nvm, that post was intentionally fake.
Still, her frustration in this game feels realer than anything else in those games too. Ricastle, agree/disagree?

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Rubicon, you have Xayzeck as a townread but your only mention of him was in 1601. Share your wisdom with me, otherwise I'm going to take matters into my own hands.

I hold the unpopular view that Garmr's replace-out was town.

And that doing fuck-all isn't necessarily scummy.

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VOTE: bellaphant

The rumbling in my tummy says bellaphant is scummy

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Do you think he's town?

most likely town, as I don't see garmr dumping a replacement with his behavior if scum...
he is either as he claimed or VT... since he was neither day 1 lynched or vigged, now just a distraction and Xay is a waste of space. However, the chances are higher that he is town than scum... if we have a vig he would be perfect vig fodder... tunneling on the slot which is not going anywhere, is that tunneling and avoiding other engagement...

You seem to be hard-defending a lot of the players that people suspect.

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@Grib, I think I figured out what you mean about davesaz.

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lynch me

Sounds like a plan though I have to convince the rest of the town you are scum.

What's your read on bellaphant?

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why do people keep replacing out :\

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like I know you are scum and jazz so its not like you really need to pay attention but he's been calling Xay scummy all day.

i know he's been doing that too

i have no fucking idea what he's been saying it tho

You wrote 1513, so you should have a good idea why people scumread you.

lynch me

Sounds like a plan though I have to convince the rest of the town you are scum.

What's your read on bellaphant?

Still want an answer here, Nero.

there is not enough attention being paid to skold lynch other than the loudest pusher. Who was quietly on that or egging it on?

Bella said she was "pretty sure" Skold was scum yet never pushed him. Looking back, that does seem pretty weird. (902)

This is the Bella 'case' in its entirety. I don't believe it goes deeper than that bar "LOL LURKER". (Although who did she replace again?)

I wouldn't describe bellaphant as a lurker exactly, so that can't be the case on her. Her slot has more posts than RationalMadman and more content than Xay or Boon.

Do you think there's nothing in those 19 posts to judge her alignment by?

(Although who did she replace again?)

She replaced bewilderbeast.

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I want to hear from others on what they think of the argument me and Pointy are having so far and weigh in with their opinions.

Does his reply make you think he's townier?

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I've concluded that the Bella slot is town. I loved her intuition and thought progression - she seemed like she was genuinely sorting the game with every post. She also defended one of the only points against her uncountered (1360), and, more importantly, was scumreading KC, and now has a KC counterwagon building on her.

Isn't it funny how every counterwagonee to KC has been scumreading her? And isn't it funnier how Peace and KC have been on both those wagons?

Your reads are based on who scumreads KC or who KC scumreads. That's pretty bad, even if she's scum.

I don't find it funny that Peace is on both those wagons since Peace is town and it would be kind of weird for him to vote as a bloc with his scum partner anyway.

Xayzeck is town, if only for multiple of my scumreads scumreading him. I guess he could be a sacrificial lamb but I'd sooner assume he's just low-hanging fruit.

Case in point.

Rubicon, how have you felt about elusive throughout the game?

elusive's one of a handful of people here who seem to really care about talking to everyone and figuring out the game so even if I didn't know her well enough to guess her alignment by meta (by tone and reactions), she would be low on my list of suspects.

You make some good points about Xayzeck and he should respond to you.

I saw enough from bella to lower the suspicion level

vote Elusive...

Only new development re: bellaphant is ricastle's post - did you find it super convincing or something?

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Half of my scumreads are scumreading Xayzeck, and they're some of the only people pushing him. Come on. It's only logical for me to townread him.

Not really. It assumes your reads are correct (one of the biggest voices against Xayzeck right now is Grib, who's town and even you just said you were doubting your read on him) and is, bottom line, a really superficial and easy-to-fake way to form reads.

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VOTE: Xayzeck

Wagering that Nero Cain, Grib, davesaz, Creative and PointYBagelS have a better grasp of this game than I do.

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I've concluded that the Bella slot is town. I loved her intuition and thought progression - she seemed like she was genuinely sorting the game with every post. She also defended one of the only points against her uncountered (1360), and, more importantly, was scumreading KC, and now has a KC counterwagon building on her.

Isn't it funny how every counterwagonee to KC has been scumreading her? And isn't it funnier how Peace and KC have been on both those wagons?

Your reads are based on who scumreads KC or who KC scumreads. That's pretty bad, even if she's scum.

I skimmed your ISO for posts on Bellascum and the most substantial thing that stood out was how you interpreted some of her posts as lightbussing KC, and so if KC is scum then she would be scum too.

If I missed the mainbulk of Bellascum case please link it to me, I kinda think Bella is town just by skimming her ISO, the scummiest thing I could pick out would be her lack of following up(I'm not even sure if this is 100% true, I just skimmed), but it's not like her questions are entirely superficial and are thrown there to look like she's just scumhunting.

Cases are for people who aren't as lazy as me. Like Grib. And Ricastle.

If you're scum, she has a good chance of being town.

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Xay, are you still a vt?

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Peacebringer, you ignored several questions about your bella unvote.

Grib, I see through you.

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Grib:

These are the people I am not townreading:

PeaceBringer
??? r Bellaphant r bewilderbeast
Vampirate r jbomber732
Boonskiies
RationalMadman r Kitz
Xayzeck r Garmr

for reference.

I am really, really bad at reading lurky people, as you can see. ,_,

Working with this list to save time.

I've played with PeaceBringer once before (under an alt), when he was town. If anything, he is substantially townier this time around, but not in a "trying to look town" way. I take things like his willingness to disagree with the majority and defend strong positions as town. I also like his quick reactions to pressure and (at times) his frustration. He plays and thinks differently from most people, but that doesn't make him scum.

The Garmr slot has positive and negative points. It's not my favorite lynch, and if I were more engaged with this game I might fight to lynch someone else instead, but unfortunately I'm not. If you open my ISO and ctrl-f his name, you can find most of my thoughts about him. At this point, I might as well point out that his VT claim makes a certain amount of sense if he's a PR, but Xay seems to be running with the VT claim, so...

I agreed with you that Kitz was being meh. Then I liked Rational Madman's entrance. I don't remember anything he's done since.

And this post is not at all finished, but since pb just hammered I'm posting it as is.

[Rubicon]

Boonskiies would have been a better lynch choice today imo. Getting harder to believe he's actually town.

I still think bellaphant seems like overly cautious scum, and I didn't like her post buddying ricastle.

The errant vs vampirate thing really deserves more attention than it's getting (which is basically no attention).

[Rubicon]

I'm assuming Grib serial-killed Boonskiies.

[Rubicon]

You led a scum wagon and then abandoned it.

Hi Taly, I thought your predecessor was scummy but I'm willing to give you a chance today.

VOTE: klingoncelt

[Rubicon]

Just dropping by to claim the Boonskiies kill

Huh, I thought you were something else. Interesting.

[Rubicon]

That's true.

[Rubicon]

Klingon, same reasons as before.

You led a scum wagon and then abandoned it.

Boons wagon collapsed without my help. Boons really did nothing and the only thing there was was him just shrugging at the wagon. Sorry I couldn't really push all these new join dates. I don't know you are being so dismissive of me but the whatever, i don't really care.

I'm not exactly dismissive. You're definitely a big part of why Boons is dead. However, I'm concerned because I don't know your scum game and there are players who would have done what you did to a partner. I'm not sure yet whether you're one of them.

[Rubicon]

Personally, I'm not fond of my predecessors either.

It's a good thing the amish tell is so unreliable, then.

[Rubicon]

Um, I haven't read up to D2 in comprehension yet...

So, some insight for why you guys are scumreading my slot would be nice.

And another thing - what are you guys' other scum reads other than my slot?

bella seemed kind of overly cautious and a bit insincere to me. There's not much more to it than that.

I posted a summary of my important reads a couple pages ago.

[Rubicon]

I question how genuine he is, in seeing how he expresses himself in posts. I think it's personality, trying to be polite. But it still would have pinged me if I wasn't his slot.

So her posts feel insincere to you and you think she was trying to make people feel good about her by being polite?

[Rubicon]

I think moderators get some leeway in how they define a traitor.

Actually didn't connect the dots last night that Boon was a traitor. That makes Nero more likely to be town, probably.

Yeah, that is a good summary. But I don't think it is necessarily scummy, as I've said - I believe it to be their persona. Even if they were faking AtE, I would be a sucker for thinking it is more likely town - unless substance proved otherwise.

Mostly because politeness and agreeability gets town to band together and steamroll the scum and shit. It also makes the thread actually pleasurable to read.

This is true. Still, when I replace into a slot under a lot of suspicion, I tend to read my predecessor's posts in a more positive light - like, since I know they're town it's obvious to me that people are just misinterpreting what they said. For you to personally think her posts seem insincere and trying-to-look-good, and to feel you need to defend her as "not necessarily scummy" is quite odd.

so KC is scum because Boon is unconventional.

Boon knows KC scum and tries do gain attention, how would a tunnel do so and why would he? Makes no sense
Boon knows scum, tries to bus, possible...
Boon doesn't know scum and picks scum to tunnel, could happen but unlikely
Boon doesn't know scum and picks town to tunnel, most likely
KC play has been pretty normal for what town do around here, nothing disingenuine about her play.

and we have Ricastle arguing Boon is crazy so KC is scum..

This is a pretty bad post.

[Rubicon]

That makes Nero more likely to be town, probably.

scratch this. Depends on the type of traitor.

[Rubicon]

do not think that this is a good point

Me neither.

Since Nero wants people to stop holding him at arms length... with Boonskiies as a mafia traitor, the wagon on him is null from an interactions POV but the rest of Nero's play is still +town. So I'm gonna put him as solid town.

Corrected current (and needing updated) reads list:

Would you explain these reads please?

It's like I miss Rubicon's walls and Grib's fluff and even my own dark energy....

You've been quiet lately. What's up?

[Rubicon]

TOWN:

Rubicon
elusive
Grib
davesaz
PeaceBringer
Nero Cain

MAYBE TOWN?

House - I'm going to review Nero's case.
Ricastle - ?

MAYBE SCUM? (not in any particular order)

Klingoncelt
RationalMadman
PointYBagelS
Vampirate
Taly
Errantparabola

[Rubicon]

Why are you so town on Elusive?

Up until recently, elusive's one of a handful of people here who seem to really care about talking to everyone and figuring out the game so even if I didn't know her well enough to guess her alignment by meta (by tone and reactions), she would be low on my list of suspects. But then, I do know her meta... so really, it's a feeling that her posts are more inquisitive and bold than they would be if she were mafia.

Why do you suspect her? Gut or something concrete?

why is davesaz town

His d1 posts felt okay, but the real reason is Grib's town-slip stuff from 1111 and 1649. Which I won't explain but Grib is welcome to if he thinks it would be pro-town.

[Rubicon]

Unvote

[Rubicon]

Why do you want him to full claim?

[Rubicon]

It's a big game. Why not an Investigative + Protective combo? Plus whatever I am.

Mafia had a Traitor. I am not vanilla. Doesn't sound balanced unless there's 5 scum.

5 scum sounds reasonable.

[Rubicon]

VOTE: RationalMadman

[Rubicon]

RationalMadman replaced Kitz on April 25th and made 12 decent posts in a short period of time, ostensibly catching up. People had been saying kitz was "meh" and not contributing much, so seeing some new content from the slot was a good sign. However once people stopped talking about him RM's contributions dropped off.

The following quotes are everything he's posted since, over a period of 2 weeks.

The issue for me with the Klingon BW is that the people hopping on it are all my scumreads or null reads.

It's not that I particularly townread klingon, it's that the people attacking him are all outside of my town circle.

what's the vote count?

VOTE: bellaphant

I like this bandwagons for 2 reasons.

1) peace and rubicon are voting them and both seem towny enough to me.

2) If klingoncelt was looking for an easy bw to get attention off him, i bet he'd bus so when he dies they look towny.

Not sure but IF they are i'm certian they'd bus their death smei-clears bella.

Because my townreads arevoting them and a null read is too who is being bw on.

yay for bandwagons VOTE: klingoncelt

I really don't like how his posts are just bandwagoning, sheeping, and a little bit of half-hearted white-knighting to KC while still doubtcasting her.

[Rubicon]

back tomorrow

[Rubicon]

Catching up on the last 10 pages.

Rubicon - who do you think is more worrisome right now - Ricastle, RM, or Klingon?

RM.

Ricastle is probably town. Klingon is hard to read.

I think RM is away from MS right now, but he was active in other games during the 2 week time period that he was lurking, bandwagoning and generally coasting here.

[Rubicon]

but I do kinda like the narrative of Boon traitor tunneling Celt

to get the teams attention and let them know he's scum

.

without commenting on whether Boonskiies was bussing or not, that doesn't really sound like it would work.

[Rubicon]

I read your analysis of me. The part that jumps out at me is your horrible defense of RM/pisskop as "the Xay wagon all over again." Not very subtle.

My current scum pool:

KlingonCelt
Errantparabola
RIP
Taly
Vampirate
RationalMadman

Has KC claimed? Intent to hammer.

[Rubicon]

I wasn't being subtle, I was stating my opinion on the wagon, right there.

I was reading Xay as anti-town and I was right, I only voted him to avoid a no lynch.

I do think the RationalMadman is the Xay wagon all over again because I actually liked his reads when he came in but then he suddenly dissapeared off the map.

His vote for KC makes sense considering he was scum reading her.

Which reads did you like when he came in and why did you think they made him more likely to be town?

In my perspective, although scum do lurk, I doubt that they would lurk right out of the game. Scum tend to do what is called active lurking, which is lurk until either someone calls them out, or lurk just enough to post before they might get into prod range to look like they are doing something.

That's what Xay did, so I don't see your point. Flaking out of games is not a town-tell, unfortunately.

At the time I was thinking if Rationalmadman was actually scum, there's a good chance he is mafia, and if so, he would basically have a group of people to chat with and remind him to actually post before he gets replaced out of the game.

Imo, there's more of an incentive to stay in the game if you are scum considering you are probably going to have a support group to chat with and lol at the town.

Do scum have daychat?

Oh Rubicon, RationalMadman was replaced by pisskop and then appeared to make a post but he's been replaced with pisskop.

Which is good, I can read pisskop. He's not scummy so far but we'll see.

[Rubicon]

Yes. Are you scum?

[Rubicon]

You must be thinking of a different role. This is my role:

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?tit ... y_Neighbor

So it really does nothing to clear either of them directly.

Mm, so that's why bagel called your wagon scummy as hell.

[Rubicon]

you and your quickhammers

[Rubicon]

elusive, why are you scumreading Bagel?

[Rubicon]

way to ruin the gambit

[Rubicon]

elusive is still town guys, I know it's hard to believe sometimes, but facts are facts

if I die tonight instead of all the confirmed townies and claimed PRs, let those be my dying words

[Rubicon]

Nvm, it was a fake hammer.

Still, Nero's a dick for doing it.

You'll see why when he flips.

When

he

flips?

Anyway, please claim immediately.

[Rubicon]

Every time Nero and Ricastle say "if Klingoncelt flips town [insert townie here] is next" a part of me dies.

though I guess that Rubi is a possibility, you guys can have him claim before you lynch her and if his stuff is nothing more than "thats my read" then you can lynch him after she flips scum.

I tried pretending to be masons with obvtown-elusive one time, but it kind of backfired.

[Rubicon]

VOTE: Klingoncelt

I'm not willing to vote the Pointy counterwagon today.

If she flips town I'd look at RIP, Taly, Vampirate, and Errant. Maybe pisskop.

[Rubicon]

Nero, we can talk more about elusive and PB if klingon flips town... which I doubt will happen.

Klingon, I'm looking right back.

[Rubicon]

Nero, we can talk more about elusive and PB if klingon flips town... which I doubt will happen.

Klingon, I'm looking right back.

and then statements like this cause me to question the town slotting here

Which part?

[Rubicon]

Probably just a miscommunication.

[Rubicon]

Ooookay.

The last 2 pages feel like a lot of scum theater.

Ricastle dying wasn't predictable since his PR was useless at this point. From a role perspective, there are bigger threats. That suggests the scum team saw his leadership of the town as a threat even with KC dead.

It's quite likely that Klingon was being heavily bussed, especially toward the end of yesterday.

Her final "reads" are pure WIFOM and mean nothing. Major FoS on Taly for trying to use that, by the way.

I'm surprised PointY didn't visit anyone. I thought he was a PR. May have to downgrade my townread on this slot if he's not.

I'm surprised that PeaceBringer targeted PointY, too.

elusive, do you have any finished scum games on MS that are actually over? Not just flipped, but ended.

I want Errantparabola to do something town.

VOTE: Errantparabola

[Rubicon]

PeaceBringer, do you know if you were roleblocked?

[Rubicon]

I mean, if one of the three of us were going to die, it wouldn't be me or elusive, it would be the guy who shot scum. The fact that he's still alive says something, but probably not that he's mafia.

Vampirate, those are some weak-ass positions you're posting.

[Rubicon]

I am leaning toward it saying the scum team is just bad at picking night kills, but your explanation could work too, I guess.

[Rubicon]

let's hold off on pursuing our deaths for at least another day-night cycle

[Rubicon]

(Also, reasons why grib would have been so dead by now if I were scum.)

[Rubicon]

Why did you suspect PointY, Peace?

[Rubicon]

yesterday, when Bagels was a CW to Celt (which makes Bagels very likely town) all of Peace, RIP and Elusive jumped on. RIP did jump off but still. My point is, I find it very hard to see all 3 of those as town. AND they share another trait, all 3 were OK with a Celt lynch but all 3 removed to budge. I think we should lynch one of those three today.

I'm not opposed to lynching in those three. RIP > PeaceBringer > elusive.

[Rubicon]

Nothing, elusive is still town, and my last choice from that list. I think PB is probably town too, but more weakly.

What makes you think Klingon was heavily bussed?

It's possible they didn't, but it was obvious for quite a while that Klingon was going to be lynched.

I'm saying, based on Klingon being scum - the people she put suspicion on yesterday are likely town.

Do you mean the people on her final list of five names?

You do know Klingon voted against Bellaphant in D2, right? Creating a counterwagon on them...

Did she? I thought I accused her of being partners with Bellaphant and then she voted Bellaphant in reply.

[Rubicon]

It does seem more like something a mafia tracker would do.

[Rubicon]

Interesting NK choice, especially with some of the other claims.
Tracker results are in no way conclusive, especially tracker clears. It's quite possible for the tracker to be town and both of the results to be accurate but not clearing.
This might be enough data for a partial solution, but I'll need hours if not days to go through the data.

What are your reads? You're definitely coasting on being called town.

tell you what, you want information and think eliminating me from game would give and answer, that certainly would be a tact. I am not found of being a tracker... I hate the roll and this game shows why.

AtE noted. Please explain why you thought Pointy was scummy.

also thinking and still think that odds high that castle neighbored scum. If pointy did not act then good chance it is vamp. Part of the bit that hung KC was the sense she knew too much that should by Ric.
One way for scum to know to much was for scum to be neighbored.

Yeah this is a good point. Ricastle thought KC knew his role somehow.

tell you what, you want information and think eliminating me from game would give and answer, that certainly would be a tact. I am not found of being a tracker... I hate the roll and this game shows why.

This really defeats the purpose of trying to find information.

I don't necessarily 'want' you lynched, i'm just trying to find the best candidate for who's the most suspicious along with who would move the game state forward if he/she died.

pedit: Why the vote for me Peace?

This is a very safe and passive response.

[Rubicon]

VOTE: vampirate

Vampirate, are you unable to commit to a firm scumread on anyone? Reading your ISO:

- errant has done some scummy things, but some towny things, so ???
- PeaceBringer has done some scummy things, but he might not be scum, so ???
- elusive has done some scummy things, but she could just play like that as town, so ???
- davesaz has lurked a lot, but there's not much to go on, so ???
- Rubicon has done some scummy things, but you "could be overthinking" it, so ???
- RIP has done some scummy things, but you're "flipflopping" on him, so ???

At this point it sounds like you've just given up on committing to an actual, firm scumread on anyone. Instead you want to lynch "for information."

But even then you don't want to

personally

take a stand on who is the most informative lynch. You're asking others to do it for you.

also thinking and still think that odds high that castle neighbored scum. If pointy did not act then good chance it is vamp. Part of the bit that hung KC was the sense she knew too much that should by Ric.
One way for scum to know to much was for scum to be neighbored.

Alright here's some counter points.

1. Did KC ever claim the actual role before Ric announced it to everyone?

2. If you are scum and you had actual scum in the neighborhood would you announce that you know the role to everyone, or would you try to manipulate Ricastle as much as possible? Also keep in mind, scum had day chat as well.

And I don't think this is a town response. A town response would be:

"I'm town, but that does make me wonder about PointY again, since I did think he was scum earlier on"

or:

"Well, I'm town. It doesn't look like PointY is scum either, anymore. So I guess your theory is wrong."

or:

...to simply ignore the stupid theory and continue scumhunting because you know you're town and the theory is wrong.

Instead you're looking for a loophole (aha, she didn't claim the ACTUAL role) and a wifomy reply that basically boils down to "it's not optimal to scumslip when you're scum so it must not have happened"

[Rubicon]

Ricastle could have been killed based on the fact that he already mentioned who he was likely to vote/suspect next dayphase (RIP)

I think Ricastle's last posts indicate that he thought RIP and Klingoncelt were not partners. So he probably

wouldn't

have pushed RIP today following KC's flip.

[Rubicon]

Vampire doesn't look especially scummy to me, but I don't think they've been especially town either so what's the case? Because I think you're not a terrible choice for scum either Rubicon.

I don't know what your point is here.

Also, to be clear, Ric wasnt a neighbor, and whomever he targets isn't conftown? Like Ric wasn't weak, was he?

To quote Ricastle,

And to answer your point about the role, I believe it can be considered weak in a sense and I can see it being considered weak by some people. But the main point is that Klingon clearly displayed knowledge beyond me simply being a PR. Knowledge she is not willing to divulge, and for good reason as it would completely expose her and shatter the case on me.

There is no other reason as to why she would refuse to explain herself that involves her being town.

[Rubicon]

I'm also starting to think it's looking in the wrong direction, but for a different reason. I'm wondering if the fact she didn't really try to explain herself was because she thought it would work to her advantage (i.e., make us suspect vampirate).

Vampirate, obviously elusive is town. I can't stop you guys from mislynching her, but count me out. :)

PeaceBringer is ignoring me.

VOTE: PeaceBringer

[Rubicon]

since Vampirate wants a concrete reason:

elusive is the kind of mafia player who's best read by her reaction to pressure. She gets pissed off when people try to mislynch her as town and she acts kind of antagonistic and aggressive toward the people voting her. She has trouble mustering the same level of righteous anger in her own defense when she's scum.

I also don't think she would have made this post if she knew KC was mafia.

[Rubicon]

Okay, let's say scum didn't want to bus KC. If both elusive and myself are town, who would be scum in your view? Who's left?

[Rubicon]

^ Not reading the game.

Nero, namecalling or not, the same basic attitude was present in that game when she was wagoned by kiwi and ABR.

I don't think she would be "unable" to make that post about a scum partner. I think that it's not her style, in general.

And I think that if (1) she knew KC was scum, (2) she knew Ricastle's case on KC was good, and (3) I had just called Ricastle's case on KC good, and (4) I had just made a series of posts pointing out more problems with KC, then she would have been less... enthusiastic(?) and more wary about telling me all the ways his case was bad and KC was town.

I have not found anything you have commented on worth responding to that has not already been said. I have already stated why I found pointy suspect.

Would you please quote the post where you did that?

[Rubicon]

You're saying it's just gut? Do you think he's town now?

[Rubicon]

Do you think he's town or scum right now?

[Rubicon]

Creative was died.
You'd probably remember that if you were involved in his dying.

Rubicon, would you hydra with me at some point? Like I need some of your calmness to infect me.

sure! I've been wanting to hydra with someone at some point, actually

Rubicon, are you scum with elusive? I need to know.

no

Rubicon I don't like u case on vamp.

i don't like ur everything

If anyone is wondering still. Read pag 22 and make sure to LOCK clear vamp. We need vamp

If you have something that clears vampirate, just post it already.

[Rubicon]

Everyone in that slot has been meh.

[Rubicon]

Piss doesn't look good. We should have killed that spot when the other dude went missing

Why is Vampirate town?

[Rubicon]

Oh that.

What do you think of him calling you confirmed town, then?

[Rubicon]

What do u think about
Dave
Piss

dave is cleared

piss is scum

[Rubicon]

yeh, it would be nice if I was dead certain on who and is not scum...
clearly I had KC wrong
there is enough pointing at elusive that she could be scum...
Pointy- who knows
being a tracker sucks unless you actually catch someone in act...
my problem here is one of elusive/vamp is likely scum. I would much rather go vamp but if the direction is solving the elusive question, then so be it...

Who did u track last night? Has this been revealed? Do t think I saw

I'm so conflicted with Elusive, there's alot of evidence against her now and she's looking pretty bad at this point.

The one thing that's stopping me is Peace's tracking her and KC. It seems like there's too many eggs in 1 basket for mafia to clear both players like that.


RIP, why on earth did you switch your vote and try to start a wagon on Rationalmadman after scumreading KC so hard?

Going back to read what I missed.

I never scum read KC.
I thought it was the right play based on info from the dead mafia traitor.
Turned out I'm very goo that this game, one of the best to ever do it btw.
Klimg posted nothing like scum to me, we played in a few games so far.
Rational was the least poster with under 20 posts in 3 WEEKS! I had 100+ in two days.
I looked at his posts and they sucked. Then he dissapear so why not kill him?

Fair enough, you were pushing hard for a KC flip at the time due to the Boons/KC interactions. At the time, I obviously was scum reading her and took you figuring out the game through that flip as you scum reading KC, you even voted KC as well.

As you can pretty much tell, people who were voting KC and were in tune with my line of thinking at the time felt town to me. Also, the wagon just felt like another xay wagon and basically felt like it was stalling the whole KC fiasco.

I still hold to the belief that scum are less likely to lurk out of the game because they still have night chat to chill with one another. This sin't to say it isn't possible, just less likely.

What are u trying to tell me? I'm confused. Is like u took my post and explained to me why I called I town..
Or u just saying we got there the same way?

If anyone is wondering still. Read pag 22 and make sure to LOCK clear vamp. We need vamp

To be clear that's page 122 not page 22. There's nothing on page 22 that would put me as town.

Heck, I wasn't even in the game then.

Lol obv is 122. I forgot one or didn't type it
I started reading from the page with the night I think 119 and I'm in last page now.

I think peace and so many ppl like rubi defending elusive is interesting.
I don't like peace this game so don't care but others are also clearing her very strongly.
Piss, rubi, etc
Don't know if scum in any of them but I think rubi is town.
Btw how about dave? When can we just blast him?


Grib wasn't u a killer? Wtf.
Kill lurkers fFS. What's deal with that? U even have shots or were u lying? Why are u alive?

These posts look fake.

[Rubicon]

I like how rubicon is focusing on town reads instead of scum reads...
Who cares! Let's find the scum first.
Is ur job as town to be able to clear a pool of players to help u narrow the scum team.
Why are u not questioning me clearing errant most the game?

Do you want me to question you on that? Okay, why clear errant? I'd call him potentially scum by his recent play (since d2 on).

[Rubicon]

If there's a scum in that list im betting everything on nero or pointy.

Here's what we can get from that list.

There is 98 % chance there's none or just one scum there.
I say if we find one then we can lock clear the rest

nero's town, pointy was the counterwagon to KC at the end so less likely

if there's scum on her list at all then there's a good chance it's you? as you point out, it'd odd she threw you in there at the last moment.

[Rubicon]

frankly I have trouble believing that we have another investigative pr, so if you guys think rip is softing one then I'd rather he full claim

[Rubicon]

VOTE: pisskop

RIP trying to argue that "lock clear" is a PR signal is bizarre.

"I now have madman as a lock clear, cuz scum wouldn't lurk."

Nope, not buying that. It looks rotten.

:goodposting:

[Rubicon]

If RIP

does

have clears on vamp & errant then the game is solved fmpov. But I kind of doubt I'm that lucky

[Rubicon]

I think we have more prs but it seems weird to have that many roles capable of clearing people.

[Rubicon]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

Two most recent PeaceBringer scum games I could find. First impression, he feels much townier this time around.

I'll probably move him back to my town list.

[Rubicon]

I still want RIP to explain his Errantparabola read.

[Rubicon]

Your play has been shit, Elusive. If I really felt like it I could do a PBP and show it but frankly? You aren't worth it. (and I'm lazy) You are now calling RIP scum, yet also claiming my play is bad. Who have I been tunneling since the end of d1?

HOUSE

who replaced House?

RIP

You either think RIP is scum or you think my play is bad. You

cannot

think both. There's also no way for me to KNOW who is scum, sure I think that you and RIP are the scummiest two players in the game but there's all this other crap that calls themselves town and IF you were town you should understand that.

vote:Elusive

I think you and Rubi need to full claim. (please fakeclaim masons so I can lynch you both) Though I wouldn't be that suprised if you and RIP were bussin' each other into oblivion and Rubi is just wrong as shit as normal.

So what's your plan for when elusive flips town? (When, not if.)

We'll have three lynches left to catch the remaining scum. Who do you choose?

[Rubicon]

davesaz

What are your reads?

[Rubicon]

davesaz, you're town, that's great, but that just makes me more interested in your reads since it means they're genuine

In other news, this morning was a Paranoia Morning for me and I spent an hour ISOing Nero and considering whether the game makes more sense with him as secret mafia leading us all to our deaths.

I decided he was still town though.

Rubicon, what are you basing this off of? You are saying elusive is definitely town here, i'd like to hear your thoughts.

See 82, 3052, 3061.

--

I'm looking at these names:

RIP
Errantparabola
pisskop
Taly

I'm open to lynching any of those four right now.

[Rubicon]

I also feel like there's fairly broad agreement that one or more of those names is scum. Am I wrong about that?

though I have a KINDA light town read since it think it makes sense to sheep not scum for KC's last ditch CW.

What is this referring to?

[Rubicon]

pisskop, my main reaction to your posts is okay but why do you think those things? What are your reasons?

RIP, I am actually uneasy with your wagon (especially dat pisskop vote) but you're still in my PoE pool.

I think you should claim your night actions as clearly as possible. You're being pretty ambiguous other than the errant clear.

Grib, do you think RIP is telling the truth?

[Rubicon]

So what's your plan for when elusive flips town? (When, not if.)

We'll have three lynches left to catch the remaining scum. Who do you choose?

Her play is really bad. Even if you have some sort of inno on her I feel like you are auto tuning yourself instead of using your brain. I am KINDA willing to listen if she's town and is playing scummy to not get shot, its a horrible but valid strategy, but her play doesn't match her town meta and her play is full of cog dis.

"Bad play" is honestly a cop out. Bad play isn't scummy. Townies play "badly" all the time.

If elusive is town, which I believe, then you are playing badly by tunneling her. It doesn't make you scum.

Also for the love of god can you stop saying this stuff about me having an inno or being masons. It's downright silly and you must not actually buy it since you're still calling her scum.

[Rubicon]

Why is Dave cleared? It must be easy to call the lurker scum.

dave's a bigger lurker than you fyi

Why? And why did you plop completely unrelated quote into it instead of a reason?

I've thought your slot was pretty scummy all game. If you want to convince me you're town, do town stuff.

[Rubicon]

Nero, okay. I think we should compromise on one of our shared scumreads today though.

pisskop, post your reads please, or a list of who you would/wouldn't lynch today.

[Rubicon]

I think you're wrong about at least one scum voting KC.

pisskop needs to die based on his recent play. This is how scum play when they replace into a weak slot in a Large that they didn't really want to join in the first place and realize half of their team is already dead. They coast and put in some token effort when a wagon starts but can't be fucked to really care.

He's been active in other games while ignoring this one, and guess what? So was his predecessor, RationalMadman, who ignored this game for literally two weeks straight while posting up a storm in other ones.

Would RationalMadman have bussed KC? Could such a wild thing ever happen? Yes. It might make him more madman than rational (lol) but you know what? People bus when they shouldn't. It's not anything new, it's been going on since the dawn of internet mafia. These days I'm honestly more surprised when I come across a scum team that doesn't bus each other in stupid, counterproductive ways.

Kitz was scummy. RationalMadman was scummy. pisskop is scummy in exactly the same way.

At a certain point you have to realize the slot is scum.

[Rubicon]

I'd also point out that while RM voted KC on day two, on day one his posts were a pretty classic case of distancing while voting other people.

Klingon yes, he's very scummy to me but I don't know if he plays 'middle' even as town or if this is specifically his scumplay. I'd be willing to lynch him though, but would much prefer a Xen/Graf lynch as despite Xen being an okayish player post-replacement, Graf did not towntell at all. He made consistently no sense and contradicted himself over and over.

Klingoncelt is scummy, but maybe it's just her playstyle. He'd much prefer to lynch one of those two townies instead.

The issue for me with the Klingon BW is that the people hopping on it are all my scumreads or null reads.

It's not that I particularly townread klingon, it's that the people attacking him are all outside of my town circle.

Here he's coming up with reasons why KC might not be scum after all.

VOTE: bellaphant

I like this bandwagons for 2 reasons.

1) peace and rubicon are voting them and both seem towny enough to me.

2) If klingoncelt was looking for an easy bw to get attention off him, i bet he'd bus so when he dies they look towny.

I really hate the way he justifies his bellaphant vote by trying to tie her to KC at a point when he hasn't even voting KC. First it's inconsistent because his previous few mentions of KC have been about all the reasons why she might not be scum after all, but now he's treating her like definite scum out of the blew (to the point that he's looking for her partners.) And yet, still finding a reason to vote someone else. Ewww.

[Rubicon]

Pretty sure pisskop is a better lynch than elusive even if you think elusive is scum.

[Rubicon]

pedit: I'd rather elusive or Peace (either is fine) over pisskop because it would give information if the scum were trying to keep her alive at all costs or not.

In fairness, a scum flip from someone who voted her (the pisskop slot) answers the same question.

IF I voted with you today would you be willing to vote Elusive with me tomorrow?

She should be lynched before LyLo if people still suspect her. I may or may not vote her myself, haven't decided yet, but letting her get dragged along to endgame as a free mislynch is obviously a bad plan.

[Rubicon]

I'd like to think that posts from Elusive like 1133 are town. That direct talk about scum theory and how she handles the idea of scum seems to fit my idea of her peronality. I've never seen her a scum, but I'm rather townreading her now.

I think Elusive is town.
I'd be happier on Peacebringer

vote: Peacebringer

or you are scum and know she is town...or you guys are scum together. Yea, still want to lynch her.

I'd beokay doing this thing.

so vote her

vote: Elusive

Sure.

As a lazy person I love it when scum write my case for me.

[Rubicon]

Grib do you think you should full claim? I'm kind of worried about you dying and leaving your n1 action ambiguous. But you'd know better than me whether that's a problem.

[Rubicon]

A startling number of people seem to have no idea that you're even crumbing stuff.

p-edit: Excellent. And yes, you were obviously crumbing a cop result on d2 so if I were scum I would have shot the fuck out of you even before you crumbed JOAT with four powers to me.

That's part of why I was skeptical of RIP being a cop, though.

[Rubicon]

But it's not impossible since you're both x-shot.

[Rubicon]

Dude I've already asked you like four different questions since the start of day.

[Rubicon]

That leaves 4 slots left. elusive, peace, Pisskop and Taly.

fwiw I agree that lynching this list probably wins the game. But I feel most confident about pisskop right now.

[Rubicon]

and I had thought that Rubi was softclaiming an inno on Elusive. I thought his post that said it was a fact that Elusive was town was a soft claim.

No I claimed in my second post.

I'm pretty sure there's one more unclaimed PR though.

[Rubicon]

Actually there has to be another PR to explain the no kill.

[Rubicon]

Your play is really weird if you thought I was claiming that but whatever.

[Rubicon]

I now have some time to form my list.

Do NOT want to lynch today(Not in specific order)

Nero Cain

- He's one of the few people who have posted that I got a clear thought process from, and one of the even fewer people I agree with on some things he says concerning scum reads. Moderate Town

Vampirate

- Any suspicion on him has been either minimal or not a major priority right now. I like how they made assessments on which lynch would be more beneficial today, they also have given town and scum reads that don't feel fabricated at all. Likely town.

RIP

- A little weird read, but I already said that they are pretty genuine in their claim, so I wouldn't want them lynched. Possibly Conf-Town

Grib

- Surprised he hasn't been killed yet, I wonder if he's either benefitting the scum in dayphase, or not doing anything to harm them. I do like some of their posts, I can't name them all in particular. Slight/Gut Town

davesaz

- I can't find anything solid that's really scummy from Dave. He hasn't done much to progress the game, and I would have thought town him would have said something by now. However, I'm going to go with my gut. Gut Town.

PointYBagelS

- He's done some asking around and contributed to some ideas. I find some of his posts pretty towny, and others to be pretty skeptical. I wouldn't want him lynched right now if I ever changed my mind on him. Slight Town

Wouldn't Argue if we Lynched(Not in Specific Order)

Peacebringer

- He hasn't said much in the last few pages, I did find him to be suspect last dayphase, there are some things that ping me. But he's not in a specific category since I don't have a definite read on him. I feel like his claim may clear him but I'm not really confident in it right now.

Rubicon

- This is an interesting one for me. I think the tone of Rubicon has a figuring-out vibe, and I find it towny as well as others. However, I really do not understand nor agree with 80% of the things that come from his posts. I know disagreeing is never usually alignment indicative, but seeing a few flips from other people would be very helpful in realizing his alignment.

pisskop

- He's just now made himself visible in the past pages. I want more time to look at his ISO and posts, but I would say that his slot is in a very bad position right now. Seeing his flip would be helpful but I don't think he's necessarily scum.

Would Like to Lynch

Errantparabola

- Has done virtually nothing to progress the game as of the past dayphase. All of which the posts I've seen of them have been either questionable or skeptical. I am not fond of their interactions with some people and seeing their flip would not only be a relief but it would clear some uncertainty floating around in the town. However, I do no believe that this will be the lynch today as of how it is looking.

The Best Option in my Opinion

elusive

1)

If people looked at my recent posts and ISO me, then they would see my frustration with her. She has stated I've been suspect because of Bella's interaction with KC. Which appears to have little if any signs of partnership. I also asked her what she thought of MY PLAY in relation but has NEVER replied to me on this.

2)

I don't understand the self-vote she did, you can look at her ISO if you don't know what I'm referencing to.

3)

She has constantly made a somewhat apathetic atmosphere, partially in her responses to Nero and she doesn't usually post until someone posts something directly about her.

4)

The people who have townread her have not given much explanation on why they think so.

Out of the other possibilities to lynch, I'm a lot more comfortable and willing to vote Elusive to see her flip, I keep visioning that it will be red instead of green. I find little town motivation in her posts.

VOTE: elusive

(That's all I have to say about this post right now.)

[Rubicon]

and I had thought that Rubi was softclaiming an inno on Elusive. I thought his post that said it was a fact that Elusive was town was a soft claim.

No I claimed in my second post.

I'm pretty sure there's one more unclaimed PR though.

I know this NOW but that's what I thought your "its a fact that Elusive is town" was.

We have 3 claimed prs and 1 dead pr. I think that we'll have

AT MOST

6 town prs. I think 4 prs are too few so 5 is the sweet spot so I think Peace is scummy (just like I think RIP is scummy) but I'd rather not lynch him today.

I agree with this.

[Rubicon]

I'd prefer to lynch you and save shinobi the trouble.

davesaz, it's not impossible. NY 167 had a full gunsmith, a JOAT with cop/doc/RB powers, and an innocent child. That's different but similar to us having a 2-shot cop, a JOAT, and a 2-shot friendly neighbor.

I agree that RIP's not cleared by his claim, but I'm okay with leaving him alive a little longer.

[Rubicon]

Hey ika. Thanks for replacing in. I'm pretty sure your slot is scum though.

[Rubicon]

How closely have you been following along?

[Rubicon]

@PointY:

rationalmadman was a "counterwagon" because I wagoned him for being scummy. At that point in the game I think the scum-driven counterwagon was more likely Ricastle (who KC was voting).

And I feel the opposite about lurking: if the slot were town you'd think one of those four players would have managed to do something, anything at all, to hunt scum or contribute to the game or at least towntell somehow.

@elusive:

Do you think Taly could be scum?

[Rubicon]

Welcome BBT. You seem very town so far. Keep up the good work.

In other news, VOTE: Taly

[Rubicon]

I'm not opposed to a massclaim today.

I also think we should lynch someone who wasn't on the ika wagon. We have quite a few days left to lynch all the scummy people, but it just seems like we should start with the people who weren't voting him.

[Rubicon]

Taly site-flakes on May 30th, doesn't submit a kill, is tracked going nowhere, no one dies. Boom.

Let's massclaim though.

[Rubicon]

The rest of the team is dead. 4 scum is standard for a large normal of this size.

[Rubicon]

That's surprising.

PEdit: I think 3+traitor is too weak, even with both the team scum being PRs so far.

Hm, really? I think 5 scum would be a bit too powerful for 18p, especially if Boonskiies was recruited N1.

[Rubicon]

That's just my theory for last night if there are 4 scum, though. If there are 5 scum the tracker result is meaningless and Taly is probably still scum.

[Rubicon]

Why did you protect me?

[Rubicon]

Okay, those targets are pretty consistent with his posts.

Vampirate and PointY should claim next.