Lynch the Wolves (Game Over)

[Vecna]

Good day people. Interesting development, even before the game has officially started already.

Just as a general question; isnt a moderator lie only bastard if they cannot be reasonably anticipated? If they include a role that tells us specifically that another role doesnt work as previously prescribed, would that still make the game bastard, and the moderator lie not anticipable? (is that even a word?)

I have some feeling about the way Mathblade is handling this. I like the criticism, but the way in which it is being done feels like it is taking a few steps too quickly. Agenda driven maybe over "inquiring minds want to know"-driven if that makes sense.

Mathblade, do you really feel there could only be one type of motivation here? Because im getting some tingles that make me feel like youre trying to adhere to your previously built up reputation, and I dont really know if I believe you really feel that - even if this really was a joke - it would have as big consequences for the game as your trying to push here.

[Vecna]

Anyways im reasonably excited about this playerlist, and ill try to be playing this game in a positive and constructive way for once, without digging in too deep into anything and leaving my claws wherever they land.

[Vecna]

Mathblade, im actually hoping im wrong here and youre town. I feel like we owe it to eachother to solve a game together and make it look appealing and clean.

[Vecna]

Hey RC, im happy to note I am already townreading you. Hurray

[Vecna]

Im just gonna operate under the assumption that TGP's role does in fact state something about the hydra, until he stops claiming as such. There very well might be some avenues that were overlooking where it could be part of the game design, without it being completely bastard.

Edit: ok there we go

[Vecna]

Yeah he is indeed........

Maybe the classic scummove, where you perceive to have been pushed for valid reasons and your hand feels caught in the cooky jar? Hence assigning way too much instant-towncred because you fail to look at it from the other potential reasoning for doing what he did.

[Vecna]

I declare that I will declare in the future my intention to declare and declaration of intent to intend to vote on declaring placing my vote on the person I am going to declare later on in this thread.

This post makes no sense. If you could just vote like a sane person, that'd be great

I just kinda ignored it when it still didn’t make sense when I woke up. :/

Aronis what’s your favorite food? (Pulling a page out of the Aronis playbook)

Tortilla chips. How about you?

Don’t really have one but it would be ice cream.

What do you make of TGP?

Now this is something we can mindmeld on

I just finished two icecones.

Im also in a bit of a sad rage. Just got word that my parents in law had all their magnificent goats stolen, and their 3 dogs poisoned. People can be such bastards at times.

[Vecna]

My in-laws live in Zambia, and they have their own farm where they enjoy retirement. I just came back from visiting them this week, and those dogs and goats were awesome. Cattle-thieving is a real thing there, and they just sell off the meat to make their money. The fact that they could evade the security cameras and were prepared to poison the recently acquired pups leaves quite the uneasy feeling.

[Vecna]

....How do you steal a bunch of goats and poison dogs without being noticed?

How is this relevant?

She's crumbing NINJA. Pay attention.

Actually, Ninja Poisoner... I haven't quite figured out the stealing part, but it could be a reference to "stealth" which further confirms the Ninja modifier.

Also, im not actually joking here. Its not a claim, it has nothing to do with this game. Just something that made me sad, and I felt like sharing.

[Vecna]

VOTE: CheekyTeeky

This is also a good wagon. Beautiful, care to indulge me for a bit?

[Vecna]

Yuurei feels very lock-town'ish to me
The hydra under fire seems pretty town to me as well
Would love to see creature post more. Pretty please darling?
NSG, I would love to see longer posts from detailing how she feels about certain people

No people that give me try-hard scum vibes yet (-maaaybe Mathblade)

[Vecna]

Why is yuurei lock-town to you?

His 253254and 255 and several others of their posts show a mindset and a flow of thoughts that I find extremely town.

[Vecna]

Cheeky, this is the part where were doing some interactions. I know you can obv-town it up, especially when you come under pressure.

So if youre town, please save me the hassle of having to go through the motions to put a due ammount of pressure on you <3

[Vecna]

Completely unconvincing

[Vecna]

Can I motivate you to partake in this one creature? Cmon bro. You know you want to.

[Vecna]

Dont worry Creature, im around. Keep going champ.

I actually feel pretty alright about most people talking it up so far.

VOTE: GuyThatSwims

[Vecna]

I feel like writing a long readslist post, with christmas tree and all that....but instead im just gonna say im feeling quite good about a number of townreads.

Please dont lynch the hydra though. The wagon there is pretty bad.

[Vecna]

Theta Alpine
Definition
TheGoldenParadox
HeWhoSwims
Keychain

^ this feels like a great lynchpool. Im already dreading having to push AA9 to get to contribute anything of note

[Vecna]

Im upgrading my townreads to mostly include Mathblade, we seem to be mindmelding quite alright here on nearly everything, and I always take that as a moderately strong towntell.

RC seems to be too busy being upset he cannot properly play his towngame due to his scum prowess to not be town here. It could be some advanced gimmick, but that is never how I have seen RC play scum (although to be fair, I have not witnessed him as a D1 scum). Im still gonna just keep him in my townreads.

I am downgrading NSG into my lynchpool. There have not been enough NSG-town-posts. NSG is capable of producing townposts very easily as town.

A50 is probably town, but will stay in my suspicion list for the rest of the game. Im quite sure I cannot read A50.

HeWhoSwims is now trying to post, but theres nothing there yet that I find AI. Can stay in the lynchpool. Same applies even more to Theta.

Aronis im not so sure about. Everyone seems to TR it, which the slot seems to be a bit too glad about almost. Recommendation; dont give the slot too much of a pass.

Creature is being too widely townread. As happens in too many games, people underestimate Creature's scum potential. When he tries, he can pull of a very formidable scum game, which is nearly indistinguishable from his townplay. He also has scum lurker games, but a not-lurking creature is definately not by defnition a town creature. The very definition of a null slot for me.

Cheeky is potentially scum or potentially town. (duh). More monitoring there will continue. Not going to go into any details here.

[Vecna]

Oh hey NSG. I sort of agree with your 585. But im still waffling.

[Vecna]

Yes NSG, go ahead and explain that one. Id like to see some detailled thoughts to help sort your slot.

[Vecna]

Why would creature be any type of expert on AA9's alignment?

edit: not gonna search for creature scumgames; TLDR version: he knows how to spam the same type of creature'esque poststyle as scum when he wants to.

[Vecna]

Actually, I have a pretty good idea.

VOTE: AA9

Lets just lynch the slot.

[Vecna]

Keychain, how did you conclude that Cheeky is indeed engaged and scumhunting, and more importantly - it being genuine- as opposed to just being aware of her own meta and trying to fake it?

[Vecna]

Where do you want me to look. I think this AA9 lynch is pretty appetizing.

[Vecna]

As in, unless you have a really really good reason why I shouldnt be poking here, imma shake that tree, shake it wild, and see what falls out

[Vecna]

Thats a rather specific post to complain about. Especially after you just stated youre not gonna read the preceding pages.....Like, it doesnt even give you the slightest inclination to read if maybe there were some reasons provided on those pages? Maybe some dialogue that would lead into that statement?

The irritation really seems to come out of nowhere. Your tone also seems hostile for no particular reason whatsoever.

Im going to jump straight to the conclusion that you are scum.

VOTE: TheGoldenParadox

[Vecna]

Like, its almost feeling too easy. Narrow the game down to a PoE scumpool, poke at one of them.....

And suddenly the rest of my scumpool comes pouring in, protecting the person, attacking whoever pokes at that juicy tree for no good apparent reason.

I mean, im probably seeing stuff again, but it sure is an interesting observation to behold.

For now im just gonna run with this idea. The scumteam is AA9, TGP, NSG and Creature.

[Vecna]

The scumteam is AA9, TGP, NSG and Creature.

Go home you're drunk

How do you feel about NSG declaring you the AA9 expert?
Or TGP snapping at me for wanting to lynch AA9? While stating he hasnt read the preceding pages?

[Vecna]

Because im quite sure Hebichan is town. Thats my reason for not wanting to lynch her.

Creature, if you are town, then why are you not concerned about NSG blindly sheeping you on AA9? Why arent you concerned about TGP attacking me over having a scumread on AA9?

Why do you seem so agitated over me scumreading you? If its for rediculous reasons, just brush them off, right?

[Vecna]

Also since people really dont seem to understand my proces here - I dont have an actual read on AA9, im still just in the process of shaking the tree.

Im feeling very confident theres some scum posturing around the interactions of that slot though.

[Vecna]

After some reflection my top scumreads right now are TGP and Creature.

Creature I think is upset because him and some of his buddies have been correctly called scum, but for the completely wrong reasoning. When he's engaging with me, he just appears interested in fighting my reasoning (because it is probably wrong). I do not get a sense that he's trying to read into me, just that he's trying to discredit what im saying. This type of tell is something that I find quite often to be very scum indicative, being annoyed to be caught for the wrong reasons, and it showing in the arguments.

TGP just does scummy stuff. Claiming to not read pages 21-24, but pretending to be very upset at me for wanting to lynch someone without stating reasons on p25. The thing Math found earlier about trying to sow confusion with the hydra thing could also fit into that picture I guess. The tone also feels off to me here. This game has been a treasure trove of information and reads so far, with very little actual reason for irritation as far as im concerned. Plenty of reads to be had for the people that are inclined to look for it. Yet most of the things the slot has done so far is complain about shitposting, refusing to read. Not completely AI, but something scum tends to do plenty often as well for a lack of having more usefull things to post. 3 strikes for suspicion is plenty reason for a lynch here in my book.

[Vecna]

Keychain, if it was just a scum creature and a scum TGP, or a scum creature and a scum AA9 - wouldnt that be annoying enough already if they get called out as scum correctly, but for bullshit reasons? Heck, even if only creature is scum in that list, but everyone except me is townreading him - then why does he take on that agitated tone? Id say theres little reason to do that as town - especially since he doesnt even consider the option that the others that are using his opinion to townread AA9

Because that is what my argument is here. Creature seems to agitated over a silly claim where I pretend to have figured out the entire scumteam. There feels like there is more to it.

At any rate, im more interested in lynching TGP today I think. Ill put a fork in this one for now.

[Vecna]

Actually after that tgp vote I could see Vecna NSG.

Just hop back onto TGP and lynch it. This day has had everything it needed

[Vecna]

(Its just scum bussing a lost cause)

[Vecna]

...
ofc that was a joke lmao
and in the one game I've played wiith you i was hella lurky
please don't claim to know my meta thx

also I'm in a game with creature cheeky rc mathblade and nsg
i feel happy
also mathblade is town that was very obvtown unless i'm the most idiotic human on the planet

thegoldenparadox, do you have experience playing with mathblade?

you are calling him "obvtown" very early

Yeah, again, it's pregame obvtown rather than you know an actual read. What I mean by this is that he is a townread as much as one can exist in pregame, because the tone feels heavily genuine.

Vecna talk with me about this.

Did this/how did this contribute to your vote?

I really really want to be right here and I don’t know what is contributing to the rather sudden TGP wagon. I want to have had a gut instinct be right but I am concerned you / NSG are taking me for a ride.

those posts actually barely contributed to me forming the read, it was mostly his most recent posts.

quite the interesting change in his tone though, going from happy to play with those players to sounding very aggrevated later on.

And im town, so lay those suspicions to rest please. I would probably settle for lynching NSG though if i cannot have TGP. (yes i have suspicions there too)

[Vecna]

edit: not gonna search for creature scumgames; TLDR version: he knows how to spam the same type of creature'esque poststyle as scum when he wants to.

Back your shit up with evidence or stfu ok?

What an extremely mature way to go about making that statement. The evidence is right there for you to go look for it. Itll take you the exact same amount of time as itll take me to go dig through Creature's history. So how about you stop being lazy yourself and do it, because im not your librarian kid.

[Vecna]

Mathblade, I have a decently strong feeling that Swim is actually town here and just doing the "under pressure" thing.

[Vecna]

The reasoning and tone of his posts mostly. It all feels pretty genuine, and not like something you'd come up with to try and bullshit your way out of pressure. Im finding it hard to point to specific examples to illuminate it, but that is the gut feeling ive been getting of their posts - especially the last few days.

[Vecna]

Ive done some digging through his old games and im not completely sold on my own conclusion anymore.

Seems he can put up quite decent walls of bullshit that have a decent'ish appearance (viewtopic.php?p=9808705&user_select%5B% ... 4#p9808705 for example)

[Vecna]

Hey creature, how do you feel yourself about people thinking youre incapable of faking your own town meta?

viewtopic.php?p=9452783&user_select%5B% ... 4#p9452783

this game for example, gimme some self-analysis of how you feel your play here differs

[Vecna]

good, teach me more tricks to read you. I know ive seen you interact before as scum though. Am I just imagining that?

[Vecna]

Alright, just ignore me for a while. Ill be on the sidelines observing I guess. Im not yet convinced one way or the other but thats fine.

[Vecna]

At any rate Hebichan, im not sure. I stil have the gut-like feeling that its town but im not gonna be trusting myself to come to a decent and accurate conclusion there yet. Ill vote with my townreads I guess as a compromise but I feel more strongly about TGP.

[Vecna]

Nsg never strikes me as the most active type of poster. Judging the content of the stuff that does gets posted....hasnt given me any town impressions on the slot yet.

[Vecna]

Bedtime for me, goodnight folks

[Vecna]

If the people that are still largely unreadable due to activity levels, would do some stuff so we can get more reads and end this day early....thatd be kinda nice.

[Vecna]

Aronis is now a minor scumread. Still has failed to show me any thoughts that are town-exclusive and is just a little too content to get by on current impressions without taking any stances on anything.

Not entirely sure what to feel about NSG's recent posts. She sure is very good at staying polite though, regardless of alignment. I like it. What are your thoughts RC? You seem to be content that NSG has proven to be town to you (given your votemove).

The re-entry and vote from TGP is entirely confusing

[Vecna]

CheekyTeeky, can I interest you in becoming as engaged in this game as I know you can be? Im worried about you.

[Vecna]

Care to share some reads and actual thoughts about the game?

[Vecna]

I have a history of misinterpreting people when they change their posting habits for the better Hebichan. Thats why im asking RC for his opinion on the recent NSG posts, since he stated he wanted to lynch NSG unless she convinced him of being town. I feel her recent posts make her sound at least somewhat towny yes, allthough im still not fully convinced.

TGP still seems like a more decent lynch in my book though

[Vecna]

I have a history of misinterpreting people when they change their posting habits for the better Hebichan. Thats why im asking RC for his opinion on the recent NSG posts, since he stated he wanted to lynch NSG unless she convinced him of being town. I feel her recent posts make her sound at least somewhat towny yes, allthough im still not fully convinced.

TGP still seems like a more decent lynch in my book though

change their posting habits? who are you referring to with this?

what do you make of tgp's latest entrance to the thread outside of "confusing"?

To you obviously? You finally started posting relevant stuff.

As for TGP's vote, I interpret it as either a vote from a scum that assumes he's about to get lynched and wants to confuse us with the vote. If he's town I have no idea whatsoever why he's playing the way he is.

[Vecna]

Keychain, how did you conclude that Cheeky is indeed engaged and scumhunting, and more importantly - it being genuine- as opposed to just being aware of her own meta and trying to fake it?

Seriously how can this not be applied to anyone else? Anyone being townread ever could be faking their meta. At first I thought you pushing on me, along with your engagement this game was towny but you're not being objective at all, it feels like you're looking for a reason to scumread me instead of genuinely doing so. You drop down a tier or two.

Or maybe im just asking Keychain to explain his read? Because in my book, youre far too inactive to have a proper read on.

[Vecna]

RC, just as a personal courtesy call - if this is a gambit can you please just admit it and drop? I really dont want the thread to turn into "RC vs the world" tomorrow and the toxicity that brings.

[Vecna]

and drop it*

[Vecna]

ugh
UNVOTE:

i do think it is nai for radiant to do a fakeclaim like that
but it does make me doubt that luna is scum

as for who else might be scum i have no clue
although since definition is a hydra who somehow has not posted in a while even with

heads then i think that might actually be a good place to put my vote
VOTE: definition

Bad vote.

Because I said so. Look at my response.

stop it

[Vecna]

VOTE: luna nova hydra

Guess its impossible to not be convinced at this point that I was likely to be wrong earlier.

TGP wagon was so nice though. Guess ill have to settle for a potential other scumlynch and a townblock that feels -pretty solid-

[Vecna]

I find it sort of worrying that a lot of people are suddenly scumreading TGP, but only now that its highly likely that another person is gonna be the lynch today. Almost like theyre setting them
selves up to already look good for the (possible) mislynch today, so they can get town cred for a TGP lynch tomorrow.

[Vecna]

i dont know.....noone in particular for very strong things i csn point out. maybe swim. maybe aa9. the rest on the luna wagon i tr i think. Its just that general feeling where u try to get TGP lynched for the longest of times, then u feel the need to jump ship because another juicy wagon comes along, and suddenly everyone is there with the suspicions.

I am also a bit miffed about aa9 pointing out a ton of my posts, poking at them, and then failing to produce a read on me.

[Vecna]

maybe theres just an easy explenation for it; theyre both scum.

unlikely, but possible i guess

[Vecna]

The doubt is real

[Vecna]

VOTE: TheGoldenParadox

Looks guys, a shiny alternative at 5 votes

[Vecna]

I second that notion. I too am puzzled by Mathblade here. This making up/claiming of random roles that are full of magic and wonder and fairytales reminds me vaguely of a scum game of them I read a long time ago. Like there was a reasonable thing they could be alluding to that seemed very plausible, but now the claim is changing to something completely else?

Its almost as if Mathblade realized their fakeclaim they were working up wouldve been made very implausible by what Luna was about to flip.

[Vecna]

Hmmm I just noticed that my role pm could be alluding that theres also potentially non-humans in the town

[Vecna]

I just hope it doesnt mean the werewolves get to turn humans into wolves

[Vecna]

Im getting scum tingles from Mathblade now

[Vecna]

I mean, maybe Mastina just added it to fuck with us

[Vecna]

Creature, wanna lynch Mathblade the deepwolf?

[Vecna]

I hate that thing that happens when you go from townreading half the game to scumreading half the game

[Vecna]

A flip would be nice though. All three wagons have their merits. But at the same time, I feel all three could go either way.

Swims feels like the definition of weird-null over the place type of player right now. A true 50/50 in my mind what itll flip. Also not a lot of interesting stuff happened around the slot. The least interesting of the three lynches imo.

Luna Nova had some weird responses to the false guilty. The slot has had some weird agitation at times that seemed to come out of nowhere. However, the "IMO" reasoning also feels like the type of reasoning that scum would love to jump on to cause a mislynch. Still, that link to a previous game....

TGP......TGP.......Unexplained votes, agitation without cause, weird "jokes" at the start of the game. Come to think of it, that joke was about the hydra....and its the sort of stuff you dont really think about randomly. Or maybe it is. But its still the weird type of thing people do at times about their teammates. And now the lurking. And then the return with the weird vote on Mathblade.

I think the latter two options are better. And even have a slight possibility of being scum together.

[Vecna]

Vecna used to be better...

Does this mean you have a townread on me? Or is this you voicing suspicions? Either way, not sure why you choose my reads to attack out of everyone's.

[Vecna]

Have a cookie beautiful

What do you make of ankamius so far? Still townreading Math?

[Vecna]

I mean, why would town come back two times, clearly state that theyre refusing to read the game, but still think they have reason to be upset:

-About being voted (this page)
-About someone else (me) asking for people to vote for someone?

This seems like a very classic dear-in-the-headlights scenario to me. Theres not even any real indignation about them being town and being voted for bullshit reasons that I sense from the posts.

[Vecna]

So you didnt think he has been extremely careless when people are softing stuff in this game so far Ankamius?

Also, are you caught up to the game? If not, why are you criticizing my push on Golden? Id like some thoughts/explenations there besides just random anecdotes.

[Vecna]

So hop on over to the TGP wagon?

Its about time for a lynch, and if it doesnt fall there any time soon im lynching your ass instead.

[Vecna]

RC, lets make a deal?

[Vecna]

VOTE: LUNA NOVA

Now u owe me three boxes of cookies

[Vecna]

I wonder who would be driving conversation in this game if they were able to without getting stupid scumreads for it.

No youre not

[Vecna]

Aronis, are you seeing the things im seeing? The triangle-thing between your scumread and two other persons that hinted at stuff, only for those hints to change what someone else was claiming?

Its really annoying because I cannot openly talk about it, but im thinking youre probably seeing it. Right?

[Vecna]

Also Mathblade not being on any wagon still is really weirding me out

[Vecna]

Yeah Luna is actually a great information lynch. If it flips town were totally lobbing off Mathblade's head tomorrow

[Vecna]

Hmmm I just noticed that my role pm could be alluding that theres also potentially non-humans in the town

I just hope it doesnt mean the werewolves get to turn humans into wolves

I agree.


Based on these posts by vecna though, maybe MB's role is town?


I'm still mystified on what the hell MB was thinking.

Just for your information, I was only talking about the town victory condition and what its formulation could imply.

[Vecna]

The funny thing is, the person I think Mathblade is claiming to be in his hood was softing to be a mason earlier.

Now that the Luna claim came out, it suddenly became a special type of neighbourhood where people arent aware of eachothers alignment.

Juicy stuff. Wouldnt surprise me terribly if its one of Mathblade's "Lets fakeclaim some mechanically elaborate stuff" type of plans, where 2 or more scum are involved. Or maybe its real. Who can tell. It sure is interesting and suspicious though.

[Vecna]

Also NOS, how come youre reading your predecessor and me at the same level as TGP, who youre fine with lynching?

[Vecna]

Cheeky just rose quite a bit in my townreadroster

[Vecna]

Im quite sure the point Cheeky was trying to make is that theres not a lot of development that we can gleam from your readslist.

Stating the reads were made before you got your role pm means we cannot see any trajectory in them. In other words, they couldve just as well been made up by a scum replacement. We have no way to judge how you got to your conclusions just yet, its just a list that Aronis couldve made with his randomizer.

Anyways, I mirror his sentiment that the townreads thrown your way are a bit premature. Your tone sounds alright, but at the same time I really am puzzled by the ordering of your reads.

People sharing my feelings and writing nice posts about them always results in fuzzy townfeelings from me.

Now, could you elaborate on your Keychain and NSG read?

[Vecna]

Sorry dont care. I only care about book-volumes worth of excellently written prose on topics that interest me.

[Vecna]

Mathblade if your vote doesnt land on luna in the next 24 hours im doing everything in my power to get you lynched today you drunk scumbucket

[Vecna]

My working theory/wildly crazy moonlogic is that Mathblade / Ankamius / TGP are scum, together with someone else (potentially creature). Now let this flip town to confirm my suspicions.

[Vecna]

Hammertime? Anyone?

[Vecna]

Why that vote on me hebi? you really buy into Ankamius and creature's shenanigans there that my calling for a hammer is scummy? When it is extremely obvious the hammer was gonna fall there regardless and the day had lasted way too long already anyway? Because if anything it smells to me that either of them, or maybe both of them already knew it was gonna flip town and they wanted me to look bad for it.

[Vecna]

Ank is either scum, or would be dead if I was scum. If Ank is scum, Mathblade is highly likely scum with her.

Scum mustve noticed the crumbs if she is town. So if she's town, theyre hoping ill push for a mislynch. Or theyre really bad. But theres not enough really bad players left so we can rule that out.

RC are you scum?

[Vecna]

Also Ankamius, if your vote lands on me, the uncovering begins. The same goes for a bunch of people that should know better knowing that I know

[Vecna]

Anyways, I approve of the vigging/killing of TGP. It should make for an interesting day without too many distractions.

[Vecna]

This started before I could complete my pre-game agenda. I feel numb inside but as I read this

a wagon seems like an efficient method of transportation

I feel as though gravity has alleviated its grip a bit. I hope we're dealing with the three-pronged trouser god, btw

My name is kuribo, and I'm a certified G, and a bonafied stud. And you can't. Teach. That.
And this right here, this is T-Bone. And he's seven foot tall. And you can't. Teach. That.
And this right here, this is Untrod Tripod. And he's hot as hell. And you can't Teach. That.
Badaboom, Realest hydra in the room! HOW YOU DOIN'?
If we had two dimes for every time someone mislynched us, we'd have ZERO DIMES.
There's just one word to describe anyone that tries to wagon us, and we're gonna... Spell it out for ya:
S
A
W
F
T
SAAAAAAAAAWFT
Concept

I'll catch up soon.

Alright this is the start. This right here. This is where I explain to all you people why im very obviously town, and why im HIGHLY suspicious of a bunch of people.

Go ahead and google three-pronged trouser god + mafiascum + kuribo. Its a soft for a mason.

I can hide it some more, but scum is 100% guaranteed to have figured this on day one, or by now. Aronis figured it out im sure, and there were a bunch of others as well.

Now im not sure whether this was supposed to be a "well-hidden" soft or not, but it allready seemed extremely careless to me to soft mason in this way. Maybe it did happen. Maybe theyre town, scum didnt figure it out, and I just outted them. The chances scum doesnt know it yet (IF DEFINITION/ANK are town) seems extremely low to me, thats why I want to townclear myself and get rid of all this suspicions.

So options:

A: Ank is town mason. Scum figured it out, and want me to distract and go head-to-head to ankamius, and figured A50 was a better kill even though they didnt know if he was a PR.

B: Its a scum fakeclaim provided by Mastina. It would fit with the role that Hebichan is claiming here. Provide a reasonable fakeclaim to deal with a PT-cop in case scum get caught.

Im not sure which of the two it is. Ill provide more on some other stuff I noted along the way though in the next post.

[Vecna]

RC is town.

This started before I could complete my pre-game agenda. I feel numb inside but as I read this

a wagon seems like an efficient method of transportation

I feel as though gravity has alleviated its grip a bit. I hope we're dealing with the three-pronged trouser god, btw

My name is kuribo, and I'm a certified G, and a bonafied stud. And you can't. Teach. That.
And this right here, this is T-Bone. And he's seven foot tall. And you can't. Teach. That.
And this right here, this is Untrod Tripod. And he's hot as hell. And you can't Teach. That.
Badaboom, Realest hydra in the room! HOW YOU DOIN'?
If we had two dimes for every time someone mislynched us, we'd have ZERO DIMES.
There's just one word to describe anyone that tries to wagon us, and we're gonna... Spell it out for ya:
S
A
W
F
T
SAAAAAAAAAWFT
Concept

I'll catch up soon.

***Erase erase erase ***

Pretty sure anyone voting Definition is gonna learn the definition of smack down.

***Erase erase erase ***

I suggest we all do pressure this slot (Definition) to either post or replace out. Ankamius is at the top of the replacements queue, and I believe there are enough players who can read her in this game.

P-edit: Mathblade? Help with Definition?

No. I have reasons. Not sure how much I can say. But look at my response to their post. Not interested in their lynch today.

ugh
UNVOTE:

i do think it is nai for radiant to do a fakeclaim like that
but it does make me doubt that luna is scum

as for who else might be scum i have no clue
although since definition is a hydra who somehow has not posted in a while even with

heads then i think that might actually be a good place to put my vote
VOTE: definition

Bad vote.

Because I said so. Look at my response.

And this is why I was suspicious of Mathblade in connection. He clearly saw the soft as well. Yet the way how he keeps putting attention on it.......does not feel like a town trying to protect another town PR whatsoever.

Ive asked Ankamius repeatedly how she felt about Mathblade being to obvious repeatedly, but she didnt seem to mind/respond to it at all.

So hey, tell me if im being crazy. I do not think its a stretch at all that Mathblade and definition were cooking up a scum fakeclaim here. Maybe its mathblade as scum doing something. Maybe im seeing ghosts and theyre both town.

It all feels suspicious as hell to me though.

Especially the way Mathblade was threading around the Luna claim. Felt to me like he realized the fakeclaim they were going for had to change. Having a masonizer and a town Neighbouriser in one game could be seen as weird.

Now I -might- be wrong here. Im not 100% convinced this is what happened, and that it is scum. But it should explain to people why ive been saying the things ive been saying, and had the reads ive had.

so please, use some logic. If im scum here, I wouldve known which of these were town pr's, I wouldve shut up about it, and just eliminated all of them one by one.

[Vecna]

(yes you can put me at the top of your townreads now, its alright)

The TGP kill combined with the frenzy amongst creature/Ankamius for my hammer call feels rather designed to set me up in some way. A pretty flimsy attempt though if thats what it is.

At any rate, there probably is some scum buddying up to me and hoping im leading the inquisition here.

And RC, as for the reason im asking if you were scum. Meh, it couldve been one of your tricks. Playing into my suspicion or something. Either way, I have some shit to evaluate with all these flips.

[Vecna]

VOTE: Mathblade

[Vecna]

That vote stays there untill I get the same game-solvey vibe from you Mathblade. So far you've been leading the inquisition on both Luna and TGP, but when it came time to put them into the grave you didnt vote for a week and stayed at a safe distance.

Ive lost the town vibes on your slot, and I think this type of "going in on a fake-claim" would be exactly how you'd approach scum in a game like this.

[Vecna]

Also Mathblade, if your town here you better come in and convince me this is a repeat of Civ Mafia and were dealing with some other mastermind scum. This game has something interesting going on.

[Vecna]

Ive had no intention about being hard on your ass. Apologies if I was, and I guess I shouldve been more respectfull for your wish to have a contribution to day1.

My reasons for wanting day1 to end was mostly so not another 50 pages would be added to it, especially so the people that couldnt keep up in the first place wouldnt fall further behind. That and apathy creeping in. In my view the hammer wasnt gonna move elsewhere regardless, and I grew impatient.

At any rate, its done. I really dont think you voting me over that is justified though, unless you really think it came from scum (which I dont think you do)

[Vecna]

You have all these memories about past games with me and I think we played like, 1 game before?

Maybe im getting amnesia

[Vecna]

Now we're talking Cheeky!

VOTE: Theta

This started before I could complete my pre-game agenda. I feel numb inside but as I read this

a wagon seems like an efficient method of transportation

I feel as though gravity has alleviated its grip a bit. I hope we're dealing with the three-pronged trouser god, btw

My name is kuribo, and I'm a certified G, and a bonafied stud. And you can't. Teach. That.
And this right here, this is T-Bone. And he's seven foot tall. And you can't. Teach. That.
And this right here, this is Untrod Tripod. And he's hot as hell. And you can't Teach. That.
Badaboom, Realest hydra in the room! HOW YOU DOIN'?
If we had two dimes for every time someone mislynched us, we'd have ZERO DIMES.
There's just one word to describe anyone that tries to wagon us, and we're gonna... Spell it out for ya:
S
A
W
F
T
SAAAAAAAAAWFT
Concept

I'll catch up soon.

Alright this is the start. This right here. This is where I explain to all you people why im very obviously town, and why im HIGHLY suspicious of a bunch of people.

Go ahead and google three-pronged trouser god + mafiascum + kuribo. Its a soft for a mason.

I can hide it some more, but scum is 100% guaranteed to have figured this on day one, or by now. Aronis figured it out im sure, and there were a bunch of others as well.

Now im not sure whether this was supposed to be a "well-hidden" soft or not, but it allready seemed extremely careless to me to soft mason in this way. Maybe it did happen. Maybe theyre town, scum didnt figure it out, and I just outted them. The chances scum doesnt know it yet (IF DEFINITION/ANK are town) seems extremely low to me, thats why I want to townclear myself and get rid of all this suspicions.

So options:

A: Ank is town mason. Scum figured it out, and want me to distract and go head-to-head to ankamius, and figured A50 was a better kill even though they didnt know if he was a PR.

B: Its a scum fakeclaim provided by Mastina. It would fit with the role that Hebichan is claiming here. Provide a reasonable fakeclaim to deal with a PT-cop in case scum get caught.

Im not sure which of the two it is. Ill provide more on some other stuff I noted along the way though in the next post.

......Can you like NOT out people are softing?

Wait you’re scum.

Nevermind go scumclaim harder.

Holy shit, are you kidding me right now? I literally quoted 4 of your posts earlier that all were pointing towards the softing post, and very blatantly stating something was going on in that post. You were putting direct attention on it all throughout day1. And THAT is the reason why I think youre extremely scummy here.

You did not show any hesitation in pointing it out repeatedly, even when there was absolutely zero pressure on Definition.

Have a discussion with me then. Did you really think, that if there was even anyone slightly capable on the scumteam, they wouldnt figure it out the same way you did? Is that what you want us to believe here? Because I have to believe a town Mathblade would like to protect their masons, and not push attention to their softs repeatedly. Thats what I would believe a scum Mathblade would do, to insure they could later refer to them softing to be mason buddies with their scum buddies.

Like Mathblade, if youre town here, and you DID do this you need to owe up to it. Im pretty sure ive done my obv-town thing here and im gonna be unlynchable for a very long time. Im just straight up telling you, im invested town this game, and youre NOT gonna be able to lynch me. There is no Ginngie in this game, so im pretty sure im good. So if youre town, realize that you have set yourself up to look bad. Realize that I have a very valid argument here, something I would not expect town Math to do.

[Vecna]

My favorite part about this game so far is that Vecna is thinking scum was planning on letting him and myself 1v1 today as a reason they would kill Almost50

You know... instead of Almost50 being pretty blatantly town. In a gamestate where killing the most town-looking people is a very valid, if not optimal choice.

If you and Mathblade are town together, this is indeed EXACTLY what I would expect a scumteam with RC (or another capable person that can foresee how people will respond to eachother) on it to do. However, ill grant it to you I have a habit of going moonlogic^2 and seeing connections everwhere, even when they dont exist.

Im working with two to three different scenario's in my head right now. But I do feel that if you are indeed town, the fact that they choose to kill A50 over a softed mason or whatever it is you are, probably does have some implications on the scum mindset. Like, in this scenario, I find it very possible that Aronis could be the scum-hero, coming to my rescue, buddying up to me, seeing everything im seeing just to feed into my paranoia. I know its extremely self-centered, but if Mathblade is town for example, itll fuel certain things. Ugly, very pro-scum things. Strategically speaking it'd be quite clever (Theres your answer RC).

[Vecna]

Also, if this neighbourhood with invite/kill does work the way I think it might, and if it did start with only 2 people, I do hope the town person(s) in there realize that if they invited a second scum in there and they could be the kill tonight, that its at least prudent to somehow soft subtly somewhere whose in it. Because the way I understand it, it can serve as a second scum night kill for the remainder of the game, and would probably be very high on the scum priority list to get their buddy invited into. If it started out with 3 people that is probably a lot less realistic to have been their aim.

[Vecna]

Also, if this neighbourhood with invite/kill does work the way I think it might, and if it did start with only 2 people, I do hope the town person(s) in there realize that if they invited a second scum in there and they could be the kill tonight, that its at least prudent to somehow soft subtly somewhere whose in it. Because the way I understand it, it can serve as a second scum night kill for the remainder of the game, and would probably be very high on the scum priority list to get their buddy invited into. If it started out with 3 people that is probably a lot less realistic to have been their aim.

Now this is what I'm not getting here Vecna:

You thought that Math was cooking up a masonizer or something and he was scum because of it, but now suddenly, you realize that by the way that Math was talking (important to note that he is making it very obvious that he has powers and apparently isn't afraid of dying to scum so it's something bad) appoint to something more similar to a neighbourhood that can likely invite or kill people.

If you're scum here and thought that Ankamius was a mason, in a first thought I don't think you would push them today, but this 180º in your thought process isn't cool at all

So the thing is; I dont actually know whether ankamius is indeed continuing to claim mason or whether the story is that she is in that neighbourhood and the soft was either weird, or changed due to some reason. I dont really feel the need to continue digging.

[Vecna]

Because of my perceived alignments of the other players I did not believe Luna and still kinda don’t but do.

The other X people have crumbed in validation of this. I have to go but pushing this dichotomy is bullshit.

I am truthtelling and y’all fucking suck at reading me.

I am going to catch up at SOME point just not now.

...Really?

Really?

Yes Vecna please continue to insist on me being scum when I already suggested the crumbing and got my hood mates to fucking do it. Please continue to “force” me to crumb when I already said I was doing it in the hood before your suggestion.

And if I am lying then if I would have X+1 people vote me

instantly

.

So you’re trying to look like you’re “helping” by making this suggestion. When I already caught this fucking possibility. The entire point of the hood is to mix recruits and kills in such a way that it acts as a masonry. Hence why I didn’t believe a masonizer could exist.

And with the X+1 people in the hood of X people agree to vig someone and the last person doesn’t agree hello scum claim if they say no.

I am REALLY pissed off by your antics here Vecna. I get it: You don’t like me. But at least give two shits to read what I am posting first.

Im not insisting on anything. Im trying to sort you.

Im going to ignore the appeal to emtion, but just know this: I dont have have any dislike for you. And even if I did, I wouldnt let it get in the way of playing the game. I feel you should know this by now.

Look at it from my point of view: apparently theres a hood, that very well couldve started with half scum / half town. It turns out theyre going to start to vig people tonight. Theres plenty of people in this game that I know are capable of pocketing you, or that you are capable of pocketing.

Annoying or not, but its rather important to sort your allignment, wouldnt you say? so far you havent really given me many things to townread, sorry.

[Vecna]

Im pretty sure I always talk with the same tone Ankamius. It always seems to agitate certain people at least (which is sad, and im still trying to figure out how to change that). The way you can distinguish between my scum and town is the level of involvement and whether I can actually switch between reads and analyze the game from different angles. My scum games lately have been rather.....uninvolved and I havent been able to muster any of the will to play a serious scumgame on this website in quite some time. Im sure Cheeky can confirm how different it looks if you read the content of my posts from town vs scumgames.

[Vecna]

My initial gut when I saw all my scumreads be town was scum vecna.

VOTE: vecna

Nothing vecna has said has made that change.

4 things:

1: your gut is wrong

2: Why me out of all the people that were fine lynching the 3 people that flipped town?

3: Who else do you scumread and willing to settle for, after im done convincing you that youre wrong?

4: Ill dedicate a new post to point 4. Itll be another nice piece of an example why I should be townread.

[Vecna]

Setup speculation:

2 masons (id assume a mason needs a partner, and that they have a hood)
3+ people in a hood that can kill people and recruit people
2 kills last night.
A confirmed town jailkeeper and neighbouriser.
3-4 scum in a pt

Part 1: The kills
We had two kills last night, and Math states the hood didnt kill. Unless the 2nd kill of last night was made by a 1shot vig type of ability, were looking at 3 potential kills for all following nights. Thats a LOT of kills to be in town hands.

Part 2: The clears and potential for mass amounts of town clears.
2 Masons, and a PT cop that has a pool of 15 people to scan in if a lynch occurred day1. Assuming the neighbouriser wouldve lived thats 2 masons + the good community x2 + 3-4 scum + whatever is the special hood. Its quite likely the neighbouriser or the special community would recruit from people already in hoods though. So out of the 15 people, roughly 10-12 would be expected to be in hoods (im starting to feel quite left out here). Roughly 30-40% to create an extra 2 townclears every night, depending on whether hoods close down if only 1 person is left (hebi + whoever she would get an inno result on).

Part 3: being able to break the setup by mass claim.
If what everyone has been claiming is true, this game could be broken by massclaim on Day2 or Day3 quite easily. If Hebi wouldve gotten a clear on either N1 or N2 thats 4 townclears right there. If that vig that shot TGP wouldve hit scum (if it came from town) thats another potential townclear. The neighbourizer could claim and be seen as a clear probably. All of this leads to the question: How hard would it really be to break a setup that is designed as people are claiming? Because this looks to me that at least one of the major pieces in here is probably lying. Massclaim day 3 with anywhere between 3-6 townclears that can be followed by a lynch and 2 kills that night?

[Vecna]

did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage?

Not sure if this was adressed at me btw?

[Vecna]

Anyways Hebichan, if you somehow miraculously survive the night and would manage to get a scan off, im also without a hood.

So, im just gonna put the suggestion out there. How do people feel about a potential massclaim? Sort out the lies early, so scum do not have the freedom to adjust them later on to suit their need

[Vecna]

Anyway, I would rather not lynch Math today. He's townish-null to me and Theta in my vision is simply plainly scum here

VOTE: Theta Alpine

I think I was already voting but doing it again hoping for momentum

Lets not get anywhere near to a big wagon yet. This day has a lot of discussing left yet.

I could definitely see Theta as a scumflip, but im not sure I want to lynch here today regardless.

[Vecna]

I wouldnt call 3 potential kills during the night no reason. Besides, unless people are lying theres 4 townclears and with 3 people dying each cycle, the game will be over before all clears are killed.

Not saying its the must-go route, but it definitely warrants some discussion.

Also, am I really the only one here thats suspicious of this mass of claims?

[Vecna]

As in, the Mathblade hood might kill your mason partner. The person / whatever killed TGP could randomly hit your mason partner or a person in the Mathhood that is town, shifting a potential balance there, etc etc.

The main danger I could see that goes against a mass-claim is multiball or a SK, eliminating 2 clears a day. even then, they could target the same person.

[Vecna]

RC, before im gonna vanish for the day - Can I seduce you into giving some reads on most people & the gamestate after the flips we've had? Id be rather interested in that to see how well they match.

[Vecna]

This is civ mafia all over again

[Vecna]

"based on activity" That's pretty NAI though?

Like town cause they post a lot is shit.

I find activity can be AI for some players. And I mean it in the broader sense of how engaged he is with the game, I can't really go further into this explanation right now but I'm not voting vecna.

What is it that you're seeing?

Thanks Cheeky

Bottom-line, when Vekna feels engaged and suspicious about the whole world, he's probably town. One of these days im gonna get my scum spirit back and try to fake that shit to the max though.

[Vecna]

Also im quite happy with the Matt-guy replacement. Especially because of his first read. Im gonna do a double-dip type of read here.

IF Mathblade and Ankamius are both town, Aronis couldve very well done the classic "smart-scum" thing to do.

Make someone look very suspicious by killing off/hammering their scumreads (IF scum killed TGP, but this even works if it was town). Works especially good if that person already has very out-there reads, like scumreading Math + Ankamius + Creature or whatever it is I was throwing out there on day1. Then when they gain loads of pressure on day2, you buddy the shit out of them, call their reads great, and attack everyone attacking that person.

The outcome is usually, the person either gets lynched, and you look pretty good (or not), or the person survives and will townread you for helping them survive.

I would like to kill somebody on the vecna wagon not named hebichan today

oh, and of course I'm still voting here

VOTE: Theta Alpine

I don't think this is scum considering the luna flip

VOTE: Vecna
I don't really know the case on this one, but I wanna see where it goes since I have no better ideas.

Come on Nos, you're better than this. He isn't scum

arguably correct

what's your suggestion?

Get off the vecna wagon and pick somebody else to vote. Preferably a scum player

You had cheeky low on your list, I won't complain if you vote them

Mathblade if your vote doesnt land on luna in the next 24 hours im doing everything in my power to get you lynched today you drunk scumbucket

My working theory/wildly crazy moonlogic is that Mathblade / Ankamius / TGP are scum, together with someone else (potentially creature). Now let this flip town to confirm my suspicions.

wait a moment, I admit that I hadn't read some pages of the game at all but...

was reviewing things now and woah, these post are as bad as Theta's posts.

and look, Theta posts are pretty bad.

I'll read more but yeah, I can see the you guys point.

Although I need to say that it sounds more like crazy town that doesn't care if they will look bad or not and just are focusing in scum hunting?

scum already have all the information therefore have way better odds of looking better at the flips or actions

What are you talking about? Those posts are A+
He literally just pegged at least 2 scum right there, maybe 3

Hell he might've gotten all four

[Vecna]

Having said all that, I think the buddying works, because im not sure at all it is coming from scum and not just a town-player that feels the same way as I do. Either way, im pretty sure I just made another pretty damn town-post, so you guys can stop wagoning my ass now. TY.

[Vecna]

Thank you for killing off my suspicions of your slot 100% again RC. Its almost scary how similair my thoughts are on most of the people.

What are your thoughts, from setup spec pov, on both having 2 masons and a PT cop in an 18p game?

Flavourwise, having a scum traitor in the Mathblade hood would be A+. Having the traitor to try and guess whose it teammates are to try and get them into the hood to take it over would be amazingly fun design.

[Vecna]

(but would also kind of beat the point of the traitor <-> PT cop interaction I guess)

[Vecna]

Since im not too familiar with Hebichan - how large do you think the possibility that a scum Hebi could ever be convinced by her teammates to inno on HWS?

Like, the scenario works quite well both ways. Town Hebi makes a decent ammount of sense to be scanning HWS to gain more intel on the third option of yesterday.

Scum Hebi would also be the prime candidate to fake an inno on an important teammate (power-wise) to save it, given hear near unanimously townread status. Im guessing 15 players left alive, of which 4 most likely being scum is quite a decent cut-off point where scum -could- get away with it.

Im not saying this at all because I think Hebi is scum, but in a world with a PT cop, and a mason softing Ankamius (who is feeling somewhat town'esque to me by now) some prodding there does feel slightly warranted.

[Vecna]

have you considered the possibility that the personal pt question was made on purpose

....A mason wouldn’t give two shits about being investigated.

If it is to dodge investigation which I doubt then Ank would be scum.

However Ank isn’t a player to be investigated. Sorry but true.

Nice try. I caught you red fucking handed pushing bad mechanics.

I gotta go but RC needs rope. Badly. No way RC makes that mistake as town. He is better.

But a mason would give two shits about being an obvious target for a nightkill. A scum fakeclaiming it could also potentially forget they ought to have a mason pt and look for the private pt for an excuse.

Ive not been claiming that ankamius is a mason full stop. Ive been looking for the person lying, because there were too many softs that could townclear people. So stating that im not hunting is bullcrap.

The fact youre going in on this so hard almost makes it seem like you told Ankamius in the scum chat to ask about the PT thing so it would invalidate her VERY OBVIOUSLY softing a mason.

Like, you just hard-claimed she's not in your hood. So how the crap would you know what she is supposed to be softing then? Because everything in the soft points to her softing mason.

You cannot have it both ways. She's either in your hood, and she did something really weird by asking about the PT. she's not in your hood, and you have no way of knowing what the soft should mean, anymore than the rest of us, and she still did a very weird thing asking about the PT. Im happy you pointed towards it so obviously though because I totally missed it as well in evaluating these things.

[Vecna]

Also, Theta just suddenly stopped making very weird posts and started making posts that make sense. Huh

[Vecna]

Anyways im getting carried away in this. Im not sure whether I agree with RC's reasons completely for going in on Math 100% as the lynch for today as this is scarily similair to town Mathblade and I honestly cannot tell the difference.

@Mathblade, you seem to constantly keep bringing up you told me that the soft was not for a mason, yet I cannot deduce how you can be certain. You are very certain though, but for us not in the know-how this could either be due to a scum plan or because some other mechanical reason.

You thinking everyone can read between the "mathlines" is a very faulty assumption. Just because you say stuff, historically speaking they aren't always accurate.

[Vecna]

VOTE: Aronis

[Vecna]

Luna Nova - Dead town
Almost50 - Dead town
TheGoldenParadox - Dead town

Vecna - Town
HeWhoSwims1 - Probably town in every scenario
hebichan - Probably town in every scenario
Yuurei1 slot - Probably town in every scenario

ArcAngel91 - townlean in every scenario
CheekyTeeky - townlean in every scenario

Theta Alpine

- Complete null in every scenario, has had some really weird surface level scummy posts but could also be another town fall-guy

Keychain1

- No idea

Ankamius

- Feels town but could very well be scum in scenario 1 due to all the weirdness around the slot. Quite unlikely scum with RC due to interactions

Mathblade

- Unsure. Definite potential for scum in scenario 1. Not ever on a scumteam with Aronis or RC.

RadiantCowbells

- Unhealthy townread. Could still very well be scum in scenario 2, mainly due to gamestate and scum skill level (yep, deal with it)

Aronis

- Scumteam scenario2 potential. See earlier post, prime reason for this theory. Buddying of vecna and pushing of the Math/Ank/Creature read. Overall scummy feel as well

northsidegal1 / Matt

- Potential for scum is definitely there. NSG did nothing really town-worthy. Replaced out. Replacement entered with a read that could be nice or a bus. Would fit on either team, but more probably in a scenario 2 due to weird interactions with RC.

Nosferatu & Creature

- A special category of their own. Gonna put a fork in either, not sure, too many variables.

[Vecna]

Yeah my lynchpool for the day is exclusively Mathblade & Aronis. Both beautiful information lynches in my mind, but I think I have a -slight- preference for Aronis.

Aronis flipping scum pretty much means town outright wins. It townclears to some extent Math, Ank, Vecna. If it flips town things will get ugly, but at least its a clear signal what needs to be lynched the day after regardless.

Willing to open discussions on my scenario's. I know im gonna get a lot of shit, but at the same time.....it feels like a lot of people are floating in the same area, allthough some distorted because they still have silly suspicions around my slot.

[Vecna]

Aronis flipping scum pretty much means town outright wins.

Probably gonna come to regret that statement at some point

[Vecna]

Also im quite happy with the Matt-guy replacement. Especially because of his first read. Im gonna do a double-dip type of read here.

IF Mathblade and Ankamius are both town, Aronis couldve very well done the classic "smart-scum" thing to do.

Make someone look very suspicious by killing off/hammering their scumreads (IF scum killed TGP, but this even works if it was town). Works especially good if that person already has very out-there reads, like scumreading Math + Ankamius + Creature or whatever it is I was throwing out there on day1. Then when they gain loads of pressure on day2, you buddy the shit out of them, call their reads great, and attack everyone attacking that person.

The outcome is usually, the person either gets lynched, and you look pretty good (or not), or the person survives and will townread you for helping them survive.

I would like to kill somebody on the vecna wagon not named hebichan today

oh, and of course I'm still voting here

VOTE: Theta Alpine

I don't think this is scum considering the luna flip

VOTE: Vecna
I don't really know the case on this one, but I wanna see where it goes since I have no better ideas.

Come on Nos, you're better than this. He isn't scum

arguably correct

what's your suggestion?

Get off the vecna wagon and pick somebody else to vote. Preferably a scum player

You had cheeky low on your list, I won't complain if you vote them

Mathblade if your vote doesnt land on luna in the next 24 hours im doing everything in my power to get you lynched today you drunk scumbucket

My working theory/wildly crazy moonlogic is that Mathblade / Ankamius / TGP are scum, together with someone else (potentially creature). Now let this flip town to confirm my suspicions.

wait a moment, I admit that I hadn't read some pages of the game at all but...

was reviewing things now and woah, these post are as bad as Theta's posts.

and look, Theta posts are pretty bad.

I'll read more but yeah, I can see the you guys point.

Although I need to say that it sounds more like crazy town that doesn't care if they will look bad or not and just are focusing in scum hunting?

scum already have all the information therefore have way better odds of looking better at the flips or actions

What are you talking about? Those posts are A+
He literally just pegged at least 2 scum right there, maybe 3

Hell he might've gotten all four

Based on this logic really. Doesnt really make a lot of sense to whiteknight the person scumreading your team, as opposed to finding some excuse to lynch their ass (when theres plenty to be had).

Being the one person to join in and agree with the reads, and attack people for calling them crap sounds a lot less plausible then my other explanation quoted here.

Ofcourse, it could backfire badly reasoning like this, but I think its close enough to certainty.

That is, if Aronis flips scum ofcourse.

If you were asking me why it would townclear me......would I just abandon whats happening now, and build a solid case on why I think my teammate is scum? Possible, but again unlikely. Worries for tomorrow, if this thing ever even were to happen.

[Vecna]

Im currently at roughly 50/50 on my two scenario's.

Since youre obviously not gonna scumread yourself, do you at least recognize some of what im seeing? Like can you see a town-Math scenario where he's being setup in the way im describing? Am I crazy for thinking Aronis could very well have been trying to buddy me and to get me to push on Math/Ank?

[Vecna]

Talk about Aronis instead of Mathblade for a bit

[Vecna]

I have meditated on the issue.

I was planning on turning you down and sticking with my own course since im kinda annoyed with ignoring my Luna nova gut on d1.

But im still conflicted

[Vecna]

Also if im correct about having found the neighbourhood people, I guess it started out quite large

[Vecna]

I strongly doubt youre gonna die before a Hebichan thats gonna inno me tonight

[Vecna]

Also, im not saying I blame you for the Luna lynch, I gave in as well because of the weirdness of them digging for that old post of you instead of just going "bullshit". Im pissed at myself for ignoring my gut there.

I might still end up lynching Math but Aronis just is more juicy, more likely to get traction, and after doing a Mathblade reread, also slightly more likely to flip red. This is all my gut. And I feel it warrants some stubbornness.

[Vecna]

Probably because youre better at influencing people to do stupid shit that costs them the game, while the way Mathblade does it is by just hiding under a pretense of his usual towngame.

In the one instance people feel dickhurt, in the other they just go "oh oops"

[Vecna]

Not arguing with you there

[Vecna]

Huh, guess I was wrong on my softing impressions

[Vecna]

I do have to admit the order of things Theta is pretty weird.

Push vecna along with everyone else with shitty logic --> Vecna pushes two other people --> Drop scumread on Vecna completely

@Mastina I think Theta is missing from the last votecount

<<< This is true; Theta unvoted and I noted the unvote, but neglected to add Theta to the Not Voting pile. >>>

[Vecna]

Even though Theta is a definite possibility for a scum flip, doing an information lynch for the day in between Math/Aronis seems like a stellar idea.

Theta is a perfect target for a certain hood to vig tonight. That way we also know if scum have protection-type roles and that gives us setup speccers some more info.

Theta flips town? Tomorrow a lot more finger pointing happens. Theta flips scum? We all know that slot is about as bussable as it gets.

[Vecna]

Did you mean Aronis there? Im not advocating a lynch on RC

[Vecna]

He calls me out for supposedly outing a mason
Realizes it isn’t a mason crumb
Then somehow I am still scum for trying to work with A50
And then A50 dies.

He keeps inventing new scenarios to call me scum and the scenarios all have wrong facts.
I counter them he brings up something else.

It’s exhausting.

Ive never called you scum for trying to work with a50. I called you potential scum for the way you kept carelessly putting attention to the softs, while there never was any direct threat to definition. It could also definitely come from a happy-happy townmath wanting a cookie for being such a good softsniffer, I guess.....but im still not fully convinced either way. If that makes me bad, tough luck. You know full well how I read people, and you've admitted repeatedly you play different this game. So it really shouldnt come at all as a surprise to you that im paying attention to that.

Either way, id like you to respond to my many statements regarding Aronis. Because for some reason youre still townreading that, even though it was very happily trying to motivate me to push on you and Ankamius, and defending and buddying me very hard when I was under pressure.

Like, how come youre so suspicious of me, but not of Aronis, who has the very same reads expressed mind you (thinking theres 2+ scum in Math/Ankamius/Creature), without any new thoughts in that regard recently?

[Vecna]

If im just gonna make the assumption that Math and Ank are town for a second, it would result in this gamestate (where im still more inclined to think RC is town over scum tbf);

Flavor?

Flavor will be placed here if mastina has the capacity to give it. No promises!

Votecount 2-9 (49) Simple

Theta Alpine

- 5 (

NicoRobin, MathBlade

,

projectmatt

,

hebichan

,

Nosferatu

)

MathBlade

- 2 (

RadiantCowbells, CheekyTeeky

)

Aronis

- 2 (

Vecna

,

Keychain

)

NicoRobin

- 1 (

Aronis

)

Keychain

- 1 (

ArcAngel9

)

Not Voting - 4 (

HeWhoSwims, Creature, Ankamius

,

Theta Alpine

)

Which makes everything quite problematic. Because I feel keychain is pretty towny'ish as well. And im not gonna get anything done on Nosferatu. So there must be some errors somewhere.

<<< Fixing quote tag by way of adding /quote. (The alternative was removing the quote= part.) >>>

[Vecna]

I finished my last exam yay me! More articulate posts incoming XD hold onto your hats boys and girls.

Looking forward to these, getting a better read on your slot would be nice, and I feel you should be able to become a solid townread in this stage of the game.

[Vecna]

Flipping it around, assuming Math and Ankamius are scum;

VOTECOUNT 2-9 (49) SIMPLE

Theta Alpine

- 5 (

NicoRobin

,

MathBlade

,

projectmatt

,

hebichan

,

Nosferatu

)

MathBlade

- 2 (

RadiantCowbells, CheekyTeeky

)

Aronis

- 2 (

Vecna

,

Keychain

)

NicoRobin

- 1 (

Aronis

)

Keychain

- 1 (

ArcAngel9

)

Not Voting - 4 (

HeWhoSwims

,

Creature

,

Ankamius

,

Theta Alpine

)

Weirdly enough hardly makes a difference since it still requires reading into the very same slots to find the teammates. Does provide for a scenario where Theta might flip town, but.....eh.

[Vecna]

VOTE: Theta Alpine

Guess I can live with this.

[Vecna]

He calls me out for supposedly outing a mason
Realizes it isn’t a mason crumb
Then somehow I am still scum for trying to work with A50
And then A50 dies.

He keeps inventing new scenarios to call me scum and the scenarios all have wrong facts.
I counter them he brings up something else.

It’s exhausting.

Ive never called you scum for trying to work with a50. I called you potential scum for the way you kept carelessly putting attention to the softs, while there never was any direct threat to definition. It could also definitely come from a happy-happy townmath wanting a cookie for being such a good softsniffer, I guess.....but im still not fully convinced either way. If that makes me bad, tough luck. You know full well how I read people, and you've admitted repeatedly you play different this game. So it really shouldnt come at all as a surprise to you that im paying attention to that.

Either way, id like you to respond to my many statements regarding Aronis. Because for some reason youre still townreading that, even though it was very happily trying to motivate me to push on you and Ankamius, and defending and buddying me very hard when I was under pressure.

Like, how come youre so suspicious of me, but not of Aronis, who has the very same reads expressed mind you (thinking theres 2+ scum in Math/Ankamius/Creature), without any new thoughts in that regard recently?

My townread Almost50 was directly threatening Definition. I didn’t have any other explanation I could give but truth.

Regarding Aronis I reread your posts but it all blurs together. Aronis is town. This is pure him paranoia. I think he is still scared of Mod is Mafia. I think that will fade.

Furthermore I am more suspicious of you because you do not follow facts this game. I would understand if you suspected me with valid reasons but you keep spinning it into something new to keep your scumread.

Since this really felt like frustrated town math, I went and reread the A50 - Math - Definition shit again, this time a bit more carefull. Guess I cansee see it from your pov, and A50 really was getting ready to stake it.

Still think youre quite likely wrong about Aronis though. There wasnt much suspicion in those posts at all, much more buddying of Vecna and hoping i'd go ham on you, as ive been prone to do in the past (Think ABR in civ-mafia type levels).

[Vecna]

as long as were making pretty tales; RC came up with the plan to instigate Mathblade vs Vecna - Civmafia 3.0

Aronis ran with it but got caught. RC kept trying to go forward with the plan but got upset when Vecna stopped messing up the gamestate for him by actively fighting with Mathblade.

You just did the exact same thing you did as in civ mafia RC
youre trying to leverage the gamestate and a certain number of scumreads against me to try and get me to vote with you.

You dont actually think im scum with Mathblade, it just suits your shit better at this point in time so you just went and threw out all your previous reads to fit the narrative.

Thanks for doing it though, it sure was a wake up call.

[Vecna]

I dont bus as scum unless i plan to go through with it

[Vecna]

whats that sipposed to mean?

[Vecna]

ok.....and why did you go from boasting about your own prowess to tickling my parts?

Your readshift on me is crap. And you know it full well.

Im still suspicious about Math. But im realistic enough to know theres both a town explenation and a scum explenation for the sets of behaviour. I think I know whose in that hood, which means the towb explenation got more likely.

Your shift on me doesn't go into any thought whatsoever. My reason for scumreading Math was in the claims and the softing. If we were scum together I wouldbt go digging into the deepcover claim of my teammate only to back away later. You even remotely hinting and trying to frame it as such is laughable.

Like, if youre actually town here, and you somehow believe all that nonsense about capable town player yada yada.....you might actually wanna try not doing the silly manipulative crap and further alienate the little support you might have on that wagon.

[Vecna]

Now slightly less certain of theta town but math is still only Lynch today

You do realize when you state such things that you cannot keep claiming im scum right? Because the two statements dont go together

[Vecna]

I could make the same argument for aronis and stringing you up tomorrow.

However, I choose not to be so full of myself in that my judgement is absolute. Some people learn from their mistakes.

At any rate, time for you to learn some humility. Good luck in getting this lynch done without my assistance.

[Vecna]

so now you suddenly believe me aronis is the scum in your neighbourhood?

[Vecna]

like I know RC is 100% fakeclaiming again given how he was talking about the mathblade slot earlier in the day, but this response is pretty pretty bad.

"pissed at you actually being a tow leader"? lmao

[Vecna]

vVOTE: Radiant Cowbells

fuck this shit

[Vecna]

You sure love complaining about others as scum having such an easy time to hide behind their shitty town-play.....and then what do you proceed to do yourself?

Anti-town shit act after anti-town shit act. Whatever your alignment is here, you've fucked up with your act here regardless.

If youre scum and this is about to flip town, what's gonna happen tomorrow? Youre gonna turn another game into a toxic shitfest in a desperate attempt to scare people away from voting you? And why was it necessary again? To protect Aronis and Theta?

If youre town and you actually really think this is scum, why the fucking manipulation attempt? You've played with town me often enough to know how I operate. Weh Weh vecna wont vote Math straight away and has other reads, let me act like a toddler that got denied his candy and cause a hissyfit.

[Vecna]

if I die instead of the PT cop or vig I've done my job for town, I can solve the game here and it doesn't mean it's going to be listened to

if I'm alive to tomorrow I'll figure out the rest of the gaem.

In the category "things an actual tracker with a guilty would not say".

[Vecna]

Some things that bother me;
-The guilty is obviously fake, but for some reason noone but Math has pointed out it should have two results. Like, are the people in his hood suddenly convinced he's scum? Or why havent they pointed out a track should also lead to person X?
-If were wrong on Math and there is another scum in that hood, they can take it over tonight and have two NKs going forward. Wont work if the person recruited is town ofcourse. Is already guaranteed if a scum got recruited into it.
-Why is Mathblade not fighting for his survival if his death is likely to mean a double NK scenario? Wtf is going on

[Vecna]

Also RC, are you still of the thought that Ank is indeed in that hood? If so, why do your teams of scum have her as scum with Math?

[Vecna]

I am still so 50/50 on this its hurting my brain.

[Vecna]

nice touch on the human detective part RC. whether it was done in hindsight to strengthen your position or is an actual thing that you forgot about for a little bit......nice

So what do you think about the recruitment part of the hood? because i dont see you respond to that.

[Vecna]

anyways, hurray hurray - since RC went 100% for the detective claim....there might be a mechanical rationale to deduce the truth.

[Vecna]

information overview:
-Hood recruits, requires everyone in it to visit (gives more credibility to a tracker existing due to shenanigans).
-RC claims a singular visit on Mathblade.
-Mathblade claims their target was succesfully recruited. -The way I read it, mastina stated in their hood that -their intended target- was succesfully recruited and added to the hood (Needs confirmation).

Is any of this incorrect?

[Vecna]

we should take a bit of time here btw because im pretty sure theres very little chance of ending this day without fullclaiming this hood.

more later

[Vecna]

UNVOTE: RC

Welcone btw GE, im quite pleased it was you that took aronis spot

[Vecna]

Was it you that decided which person that got invited into the hood Mathblade? Or was there someone else in the hood with a strong opinion on whom to invite?

[Vecna]

Also I am now split 33/33/33 vs TvT/SvT/TvS

I agree with PJM that I do not get a very town vibe from Math's recent posts. However, I also feel PJM is very much in the scumrange himself and would love to get a MB flip into a RC flip tomorrow.

GE reads as scum so far.

[Vecna]

@RC: what's the scum team you're looking at?

I finished my last exam yay me! More articulate posts incoming XD hold onto your hats boys and girls.

actual read on math?

[Vecna]

imo, we should do the following today:

1. make mathblade out his hood partners

2. lynch mathblade

3. if mathblade flips town, the hood will use their ability to kill radiantcowbells. since killing requires all members of the hood to agree, refusing to kill will be tantamount to a scum-claim.

4. if mathblade flips scum, the kill is unnecessary.

Whether this is a good plan depends entirely on the extra person that got invited. If its obv-town, this plan is fine, I guess.

At any rate, with the way the hood works, for scum to take it over without consequence they need to have already 2 people in there. Otherwise if Math flips town, and they NK another person in there, the third just gets lynched tomorrow instead of RC if they block the shot there. If they have two in there, lynch Math today, NK the other tonight, even if we lynch one of the two tomorrow the other can invite his last (undercover) buddy - and scum will have perma 2 nk's. Its a far shot, but a possibility. Hence why we need to know whose in there before we can even start to decide what is a good option.

The frustrating thing is; if RC is town here, then RC is forgetting something vital. Im sure if he's town, that in his mind his plan is brilliant, claim a guilty on math, get him lynched, get NK'd over the pt cop, yada yada. Except he needs to have been pretty lucky to actually have Math do the kill for scum, else scum will already know that he's bullshitting anyways and continue to kill Hebi. The fact he keeps waffling and refusing to respond to the thing that the tracking shouldve resulted in two visits is just weirdness added on top.

[Vecna]

Outing the hood is only really anti-town if there is already scum in there......IN WHICH CASE THEY ALREADY KNOW WHO IS IN THERE.

If theres no scum in there, then who fucking cares that they know it? You think theyre going to spent NK's killing you guys just because you can vig stuff? Youre afraid theyll start killing you guys in anticipation of getting invited into the hood?

Like, what are you afraid of, a redirector on the vig? Didnt you say you all take the action simultaneously? Id be happy to have you ask moderator questions on how that would even work.

I for one will not vote either you or RC untill I know what is going on exactly.

There even still is a very slight possibility that you made all this shit up, and you have some hidden softs from teammates that you'll only want to use in emergencies. Its quite the lucrative fake-claim, even though extremely risky.

[Vecna]

Like, RC is probably hiding shit, but there are pretty much 3 scenario's here.

-Either he is fakeclaiming tracker because he really believes youre scum and he doesnt care about the backlash - in fact he thinks he's gonna be the hero VT tonight thatll eat a bullit instead of Hebi.......

-OR he is scum that has infiltrated your hood already and doesnt mind sacrificing himself to gain controll of it with some plan I cannot fully comprehend yet (potentially 2 scum in there?)

-OR he is actually a tracker, and you fakeclaimed your entire hood, he did indeed track you to the kill, and is just being extremely weird about not being puzzled about not getting other information. In which case you plan to lynch him, and then get lynched tomorrow without revealing your scum buddies that have posted softs all over, only to use if absolutely required.

-Bonus scenario: Scum RC vs Scum Mathblade, either bussing or on different teams.

Now, these last two are probably the least likely, but theyre still possible. A hood full-claim and confirmation can at least rule out, or counteract #2 and #3.

[Vecna]

I bet Mastina is quite pleased with herself for designing this setup and watching all the weird interactions fall into place just as designed - driving most of us completely mad.

[Vecna]

It very well might be legit AA9.

Do you have reason to think otherwise? Why lynch a claimed tracker over his guilty?

[Vecna]

In fact, care to grace us with some long well thought-out posts like you did in product placement? Ive been missing your snappy prose lately.

[Vecna]

Or when x can literally be zero.

We have no proof whatsoever that this hood actually exists

Like GE and Ankamius are the likely candidates to be in there, but theres so much weirdness surrounding their slots that goes counter to that logic that.....yeah.

Still surprised this hasnt come from mr Tracker RC's mouth though.

Math also keeps dancing around my argument though. If theres no scum in the hood, scum cannot take it over. If there IS scum in the hood, he's only keeping town in the dark, severely limiting our game solving options.

[Vecna]

At any rate, RC is up for a move in talking about his missing result first.

[Vecna]

Untill either player starts making the logical arguments id expect but that are sorely missing, im gonna assume this is actually a scum vs scum ploy. Just to piss people off, of course.

[Vecna]

Or when x can literally be zero.

We have no proof whatsoever that this hood actually exists

Like GE and Ankamius are the likely candidates to be in there, but theres so much weirdness surrounding their slots that goes counter to that logic that.....yeah.

Still surprised this hasnt come from mr Tracker RC's mouth though.

Math also keeps dancing around my argument though. If theres no scum in the hood, scum cannot take it over. If there IS scum in the hood, he's only keeping town in the dark, severely limiting our game solving options.

Excuse me WHAT weirdness surrounds my slot?

The fact that your previous slot occupier was wildly calling out Mathblade and Ankamius as scum for starters. Would kinda qualify as "weirdness" if he started in a 3p hood with them.

[Vecna]

Ok Gamma, I want you to go ask the moderator how your neighbourhood recruitment would work if one of the people was tracked, and post the response here please. At least that way if RC does flip tracker, we got ourselves two juicy fish.

RC, do you think this is at all possible to have been a bus driver? Swapping the scum doing the NK with Mathblade would rank very highly up there in choices for a scum bus driver id think. Assuming youre town here, and an actual tracker, why is this not crossing your mind? Since you yourself have stated you actually do believe this neighbourhood to be a thing (and im really getting the impression from GE it does indeed exist, duh).

[Vecna]

That vote signals worrying things

[Vecna]

Its almost like youre putting the bait out there for me to go scumreading them again because you insist on a townread

[Vecna]

Can someone just confirm if ankamius is also in the hood already so i can start townreading Math?

[Vecna]

Like, I think the soft was pretty obvious, and absolutely noone on any scum team wouldve missed it, so like, confirmation, please?

Because, this is just looking like all kinds of bus-drivery nonsense to me (queue RC calling me scum again for this comment but idgaf)

[Vecna]

Also, im sort of loving how semi-reasonable Mathblade is being. It might be warping my perceptions, but its sort of pleasant.

Edit: theres scum in your hood regardless mathblade. Let me at least form proper reads because this lynch is important.

[Vecna]

Like, give me a secret nod or something

[Vecna]

Because I still do not see how a townblade would dance around the Definition softs the way you did. If it was because ankamius is in your hood, fine, understandable, ive probably been a dumbass. If not, I dont have the slightest idea how you could even begin to get what that soft was and not think mason.

It also pertains to the Aronis shit, because if he was in a hood with you and Ankamius, him trying to push me hard to push on the two of you was definately extremely scummy. Especially after then replacing out when getting called out on that shit.

[Vecna]

Simply put; I dont wanna start pushing shit on possibly faulty assumptions

[Vecna]

lightbulb, but disagreeing.

Still wondering why you had to make that first comment though putting more attention to it (which was way before the A50 thing).

Can you point me to some games where you were scum and were fabricating scumclaims? Or just using mod-provided fakeclaims? I saw that mastina game from a year ago already with the redirecter and busdriver but I want some better examples.

[Vecna]

Sup RC. Still wondering how you think both the hood and your tracking result are real.

[Vecna]

sounds like perfect design for maximum mod entertainment.

but i agree, itd probably be a bus driver not a redirector if youre actually a tracker.

anyways....i feel we should probably just lynch like GE or nsgs replacement

[Vecna]

And a bus driver is even worse because then you just encourage a vig on whoever and bus it to whoever you want dead, guaranteed two scum kills every night on high value targets, one of which is immune to protectives

also, this instantly outs that theres scum in the hood

[Vecna]

i think at this time projectmatt is a pretty damn good target as well

[Vecna]

i had a very solid townread on yuri, although i know it is the type of play that is able to fool me because it all soubded so towby and in line with my own thought.

I wanna see thoughts from math on the game. Not just shopping for other people their opinions on whom is lynchable. RC is gone now so no more excuses there.

[Vecna]

ow wait, muffin wasnt yuri lol

[Vecna]

how have your reads developped nos?

Im not sure if im still scumreading GE

[Vecna]

if you are actually town i really dont get why youd think i would ever oppose your lynch.

give me a good reason why i would or im gonna put you back on the menu.

[Vecna]

gamma emerald, id like your detailed evaluation about the people in the hood. as in, was there scum in the initial 3? was the extra invite an objectively good choice?