Heroes Wanted! (Game Over)

[Frozen Angel]

so toog replaced molla?

[Frozen Angel]

Yup yup

Name the only game you were force replaced for a weird circumstance that I was also in and then your hydra buddy died. Name your role and alignment. You have 10 minutes. This should be enough time.

No hints from anyone else.

I have been force replaced? You caught me surprised here. I have totally forgot such a thing.

she is asking it from cerb not you you realized that?

[Frozen Angel]

Also cerb is dead that is too much derp for a read list tbh

[Frozen Angel]

Oh wait this was to Cerb kk. Well he says he won't answer any questions. And that your question is dumb anyway cause anyone could check his history and find the only game his name is crossed anyway.

?!!!!

Come on what is this

[Frozen Angel]

VOTE: Shiro

[Frozen Angel]

I want shiro - cerb chat to be tested more. anyone who can test it please repeat this test

[Frozen Angel]

Ok so I got a permise wrong. As long as a scum has power negation even phasing won't redirect the kill cause in NAR:

Copy
Hide
Bus Drive
Block
Redirect
Protect
Miscellaneous
Kill
Recruit
Inspect

block is above the redirect for some reason.

[Frozen Angel]

So yeah power negation is effectively making someone macho unless with tonight heal cause the heal will effect during day and can bypass that block

[Frozen Angel]

Drixx can you ask shiro a question that only cerb can answer?

[Frozen Angel]

Drixx telling he didn't get power/ank dieing probably cause of medium night 1 and not getting any abilities day 2 instead of power nagtion is a possibility. A scum titus would give shiro - a probably scum teammate and someone else power over drixx and ank

If titus is scum they wouldn't waste power negation on ank unless if they were thinking ank might have bp from n1

[Frozen Angel]

If they can be found online why he resisted to answer them?

[Frozen Angel]

Cerb says you all should stop being idiots and asking questions that could be found online because scum could find them and raise the circle of associative that arise if I flip scum.

He says you should only ask questions when he is ready to prove it.

Drixx can you ask shiro a question that only cerb can answer?

Make sure Cerb is on to answer first according to Shiro before asking if it is time sensitive.

I'm down. I can ask Cerb a very specific question that nobody else could possibly answer. I've already thought of several actually.

@Shiro tell cerb he must answer the following k?

drixx ask when shiro confirms cerb is online

[Frozen Angel]

Nah he really wants that VCA, he told me thrice now to shout it.

drixx questions answers? >.>

[Frozen Angel]

there were 5 starting mafia in this 1 is dead at least one should be in titus pool we have one or two lurker scums very likely and the other should be a distancing one.

We must gather everything we know and we have so far in one table and see who is more likely to be the scum here and we should start with the ones that probably have abilities.

[Frozen Angel]

He says he won't answer anything till he is ready, which isn't now and won't be till half a day is over. Stop being dumb and let others talk.

@Drixx6he says when the time comes he will tell me something from forever ago which will instantly confirm it to you.

Why he wants to delay this?

[Frozen Angel]

UNVOTE: for now

But hard fos on shiro

[Frozen Angel]

yeah I see litteraly 0 reason for shiro to be lieing. I just don't want to rush lynching them.

We have some stuff to talk about.

[Frozen Angel]

@Drixx Cerb wants me to remind you that he voted for Titus leader and that its never a good idea to tunnel Titus, look elsewhere and don't get caught up in the minutiae

there is nowhere else to look we must find the scum(s) in last night pool who probably picked power negation

And titus as leader is first in line for being questioned for that. You, on the other hand, claimed a confirmable ability use and are failing to confirm the details about it which makes you a top suspect. you were also in last night pool if you prove you have a chat with cerb that will remove you as a possible scum with power negot use on ank

making sense?

[Frozen Angel]

@Fa

He says it because there 15 more people that still havent talked about their confidence in me commuting his thoughts and that it would have been really fucking nice if day start wasn't all about him and he could gauge their reactions without them knowing this is tested that much.

This is literally best lead we have to find scum. dragging game for proving his identity makes no sense and I doubt a real cerb would say this.

[Frozen Angel]

eah I see litteraly 0 reason for shiro to be lieing. I just don't want to rush lynching them.

Clarify, what do you mean here evayse that doesn't add up.

I mean we need to slow this and see why would a scum you lie about getting a chat with cerb too and we should not rush in lynching you cause there are other matters we need to talk about

But I want cerb identity to be confirmed. If you fail to do so you're just a scum that for some reason decided to out themself

[Frozen Angel]

yeah the pool should be correct.

Also shiro claim is like an inno claim on me too cause I would not give cerb power and kill them in same night if I was scum. But if he is scum that is a false inno. regardless i can't be scum unless if shiro is already scum too

[Frozen Angel]

@Drixx he is saying he is disappointed you think so little me(by me I mean myself Shiro) of :/

what?

[Frozen Angel]

If you fail to do so you're just a scum that for some reason decided to out themself

WOW

Now I am disappointed you think so little of me FA.

How is that thinking little of you >.>

[Frozen Angel]

yeah the pool should be correct.

Also shiro claim is like an inno claim on me too cause I would not give cerb power and kill them in same night if I was scum. But if he is scum that is a false inno. regardless i can't be scum unless if shiro is already scum too

The same equally works for me though because whether or not I gave Ank a power is verifiable.

how?

[Frozen Angel]

yeah the pool should be correct.

Also shiro claim is like an inno claim on me too cause I would not give cerb power and kill them in same night if I was scum. But if he is scum that is a false inno. regardless i can't be scum unless if shiro is already scum too

Ok so
If shiro is to be believed, we can probably trust Cerb's reads.
Which means that Math is probably town (Look also at my previous theory of Titus/Math town for the Ank death).
There's also the fact that Cerb's asking Titus for VCA, which should probably help him read titus.
Which leaves us with nancy... what.

if shiro is telling the truth is that titus lied about giving ank power, gave a scum mate the power they got power neglation they used it on ank and killed ank last night or it's nancy yes

[Frozen Angel]

yeah the pool should be correct.

Also shiro claim is like an inno claim on me too cause I would not give cerb power and kill them in same night if I was scum. But if he is scum that is a false inno. regardless i can't be scum unless if shiro is already scum too

The same equally works for me though because whether or not I gave Ank a power is verifiable.

how?

Spirit Medium him. Ank would say so.

If shiro is telling the truth he is fresh meat for scum with power neglation. if shiro is lieing we can safely assume no other medium exists cause no one else claimed to have a chat with cerb yet. We should wait and hope so maybe nancy or ufo come up with something cause they got powers from n1

but yeah you can be truthfully giving ank power knowing another scum who is in your pool will neglate the powers they use and will be able to kill them that night just to avoid medium too

[Frozen Angel]

OH crap

If ank was using medium there was no need for power neglation as he was already a fresh meat regardless

[Frozen Angel]

OH crap

If ank was using medium there was no need for power neglation as he was already a fresh meat regardless

Isnt that what i said like several pages ago.

yeah but just when I was thinking about how similar this is to a locked room murder mystery I just realized that the room was not locked at all.

[Frozen Angel]

scum PT last night:

"hey shiro, pretend you got the medium N1 and that you used it on cerb lol"
"but i don't see a point in doing that..."
"nah dw it's a good idea, trust me, it's not going to make people think you're town but do it anyway!"
"but won't it be too obvious? what if they try to verify it?"
"lol dw just say he won't do it! everyone will let you off the hook! it's a flawless strategy"
"ok, i will do just that! i also believe this is a flawless strategy!"

Yiu killed me xD I am laughing out loud in the middle of the street xD

That is why I want the cerb who is in contact with you to prove himself and you're not lynched yet. Now please get that alibi sorted

[Frozen Angel]

yeah the pool should be correct.

Also shiro claim is like an inno claim on me too cause I would not give cerb power and kill them in same night if I was scum. But if he is scum that is a false inno. regardless i can't be scum unless if shiro is already scum too

@cerb says that is bs. And it's bs that you are ignoring the question about a potential scum slip. He says giving power to someone you thought wouldn't pick protective and then shooting them us quite a good strategy.

I don't know jackshit about ank prefrences. I wouldn't know what they would pick and scum would never risk the kill like that when I could give power to a scum mate and kill cerb anyway.

[Frozen Angel]

If anything if FA predicted what Ank took N1, why didnt she just shoot Ank N1 then instead of shooting Cerb who kept saying he'd take BP anyway.
I dont think FA is scum in any scenario.

I also gave a person who I was about to kill a power role? like what?

I could simply give it to another scum partner and claim as such saying I didn't trust cerb well enough or some jackshit. I won't give someone a potential bp and try to kill them at night as scum. Taking night actions risk is not my scum meta. I believe scum should play natural and safe - should not force anything unnecessary and should always play optimum.

[Frozen Angel]

Titus whar do you think about cerb refusal to prove himself?

[Frozen Angel]

Do you think cerb medium is real or are we at devil's proof gambit?

[Frozen Angel]

Devil's proof gambit is this:

You can't prove a devil -in this case cerb- doesn't exist by asking thousand questions. That theory that devil doesn't exist blows away when a devil apears right in the middle of the game.

What are the benefits for claiming devil exists when you can't deny that possibility? to give a false clear - confusion and discord. But in this case it's just too much stupid gambit cause the person who fails to prove the devil existance just got on the blade edge for doing such gambit. I think scum titus is calculated but I'm not sure if they fake this much for so little gain. I doubt scum shiro does this gambit willingly

I would give shiro and cerb a second chance in proving they are in chat.

[Frozen Angel]

orrrrrrrrrr crazy theory

he thinks proving right now it is meaningless and wants you all to shut the fuck up about it for a while

hmmm

actually, nah, sorry, jig's up shiro

you're caught now

Why do you say it doesn't matter? It's the best lead we have for finding scum who is responsible for ank death

[Frozen Angel]

orrrrrrrrrr crazy theory

he thinks proving right now it is meaningless and wants you all to shut the fuck up about it for a while

hmmm

actually, nah, sorry, jig's up shiro

you're caught now

Ok, why does Scum!Shiro lie here?

Pretty sure it was sarcasm

[Frozen Angel]

if the theory is true its nothing more than a lie cop check just in a way that shiro can't even answer or react to it

[Frozen Angel]

VOTE: Shiro

[Frozen Angel]

@Drixx

Cerb says that maybe he wants everyone to suspect me so he can create associatives like he would do if he was alive by acting scummy/arrogant.

Or maybe he doesn't trust me enough to confirm me so I dont start saying shit he isn't telling me after I confirm the link.

This is not coming from cerb ever

Titus calling dirxx crazy with his posts makes no sense.

Shiro is scum unless if she can prove she has a chat with cerb.

[Frozen Angel]

Cerb is certain he is town I will trust him fully there.

Why aren't you trying to make cerb talk prove your chat? why you're not fixing his read on you if he is scum reading you?

[Frozen Angel]

Shiro just asked me a question that i dont see Shiro asking in a million years, so i believe it.

Not sure I do but it fits my purposes to move on and start sorting people. Kinda glad I didn't power Drixx now though bc this is kinda crazy where he's at...

Back when I had my spat with Shiro it was specifically about that factional abilities thing that i brought up and Shiro said that "it probably only means the scum night kill", if that's what Shiro thought, Shiro's question doesn't make sense now, but someone dead (Cerb) could've probably thought something like that, and the question makes more sense coming from him.

what was your question exactly

[Frozen Angel]

Honestly fa you know I would never pull a lie like that I only bend the truth. You pursuing this really makes me suspicious.

Yeah it's pretty unsettling actually. I can't understand why did you do this if you were scum. I'm trying to figure out your motivations.

You should try and force cerb to explain why he is not telling us the truth about his intentions or to force him to prove he is in chat with you in the mean time.

[Frozen Angel]

I just don't understand the whole thing you're referring can you paraphrase the whole thing?

[Frozen Angel]

I just don't understand the whole thing you're referring can you paraphrase the whole thing?

@Sakura

[Frozen Angel]

Nah ... Cerb would just give the wrong answers if he was in convo with Shiro and wanted us to rope Shiro.

Fair.

Why can't we deal with this midday as suggested?

Sando, what do you think of the EoD wagon on you yesterday?

what do you think about it and where is your vca before asking others about it?

[Frozen Angel]

He even answered maths question and specifically told me not to relay it because he isn't about to give her easy town cred via a dumb question.

He hasn't answered your question yet no.

what the fuck? how that would give math any cred?!!!

[Frozen Angel]

what do you think about it and where is your vca before asking others about it?

My answer is primed and ready though!

yeah but I'm used to see town!titus not caring about others reads and doing her own vcas and pushes. Seeing her asking someone else to vca instead of giving out her thoughts is unsettling af

[Frozen Angel]

I just don't understand the whole thing you're referring can you paraphrase the whole thing?

Well day 2 shiro wanted to do a "test" for my mason claim
At one point i said "But it says scum may have factional abilities on top of super powers, it's not weird for town to have some too no?"
At what Shiro replied "It probably was referring to the scum nightkill"
With that in mind why does Shiro come here with this:

@Sakura he says that op specifically leaves room for other though it doesn't identify them.
Why do you object the supposition when you didn't at day 1 when it was talked about a lot and specifically the reason Titus was suspicious of Cerb

@Sakura

He is talking about scum factional a

You didnt question it

day 2

day 1 despite him bringing it up and Titus being suspicious that he didn't empasize it enough

I can't digest this. Shiro in day 2 thought we should test you mason claim and that scum has not other factional

Shiro in day 3 quoted cerb about other factionals?

[Frozen Angel]

That can be one of the 3:

- cerb said that
- scum!shiro was faking yesterday and scum does have extra power or is faking it today to make us think such thing exists (which is another devil's proof we won't know anything about till post game or if somehow such power is proven.
- its just shiro forgeting her stance and changing it over night or during last day

he said its coming from cerb sakura?

[Frozen Angel]

@Fa I think you might be scum. It kind of fits why you picked me day 1. You knew it would be easy to manipulate e me afterwards cauae of my strong townread but you saw Titus picking me giving me more power and the potential of Cerb influencing me you want me lynched.

I see no bloody way you think I lied about the chat. None. Even in cyberpunk I flat out told you by to out to everyone our chats, I only bend truths to fit a narrative. Never lie about roles. I kept that lesson from Titus funnily enough. She taught me that in netherworld role madness. I mean even in space dandy 2 I didn't lie about any of my powers Ionly tweeked some truths. I went as far as to it using my fake claim. I only use truths to deceive.

And as you said yourself, you know I am better that to flat out gane throw like this which only leaves as an option that you have dn agenda here.

you were in my picks as a placeholder. I immediately regretted choosing you when I saw 1-9 flipping scum cause I was choosing every other person who was voting me and I think it's my responsibility to sort you out before anyone else cause I gave you that freaking power role n1.

Anyway. This has nothing to do with our neighborhoods in cyberpunk

I want to understand the whole deal with cerb chat. Till then I will not back off from pressuring you because solving this might give us a lead with ank killer last night.

[Frozen Angel]

Forget my stance as scum? OK no, not ever. If you thought I was town I would accept that but if you scumread me? FUCK THAT.

I pick something and keep it forever as scum. It's my way of faking consistency. No.

FA is scum. I about 80% certain here.

I don't remember the last time you were scum against me. we were scum together as third party in one game and I don't understand anything you're saying about how that game performance makes you look towny here at all

I remember you when scum - as apealy - but a safe player. I don't think you would gambit as scum as I said like 100 times already. It just makes no sense for cerb to not prove his existance here or saying those things at all. Help me out here if you're claim is true why do you think he is doing this?

And no I'm not scum. You're 80% wrong or scum for thinking that.

[Frozen Angel]

Pressure? You have picked the most neutral stance on the subject, if anything only drixx is pressuring the subject.

?!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm saying I want cerb to prove it and if he doesn't you're scum but I don't see scum you doing this which is bizzare so I want YOU to have this extra chance for proving it. How is this stance natural?

And I was pressuring it since the moment it started.

[Frozen Angel]

@Drixx

Cerb says that maybe he wants everyone to suspect me so he can create associatives like he would do if he was alive by acting scummy/arrogant.

Or maybe he doesn't trust me enough to confirm me so I dont start saying shit he isn't telling me after I confirm the link.

This is not coming from cerb ever

Titus calling dirxx crazy with his posts makes no sense.

Shiro is scum unless if she can prove she has a chat with cerb.

Shiro siriously how is this ever coming from cerb and you're not trying to convince him instead of us that he is wrong with this stance- trying to talk about his concerns and answer them? cerb is saying he doesn't trust you to mechanically confirm you by proving he exists. That is pure horseshit and I want to beleive that cerb is not such a bad player for mechanically denying us the information we should have.

You also said he asked you to not answer math question cause it would give wrong cred to math which makes NO sense cause that is litteraly never would happen and cerb knows that too well. You can't dodge all questions about cerb with saying it will give wrong cred to people!

[Frozen Angel]

ok we have time

convince him when he wakes up to prove us he has a chat with you and ask him about his dumb reasonings for withholding the answers to the asked questions so far.

[Frozen Angel]

if shiro claim is true

Frozen Angel: Ankamius
Titus: Ankamius

Bbmolla: Titus
cerb: Titus

ank and titus both had 2 votes yesterday

Drixx: Assuming Cerberus v666?
Human Sequencer:
Katsuki:
Kokichi Oma:
Myloninja13:
randomidget:
zMuffinMan: {Ankamius/Sakura Hana/Katsuki/Cerberus v666/Nancy Drew 39}


and that

Ankamius: Missed Deadline
Brandi/NicoRobin: Missed Deadline
Gamma Emerald: Missed Deadline
hebichan: Missed Deadline
the worst: Missed Deadline
Nosferatu: Missed Deadline
Shiro: Cerberus v666
Sando: Cerberus v666

[Frozen Angel]

also nancy Sakura Hana and Katsuki had 1 votes each too

[Frozen Angel]

it makes no sense for these many people to miss the deadline and stuff and for titus to win with 2 votes when scum had 4 votes available.

[Frozen Angel]

@Titus let's trust Cerb on his drixx townread he is 150% certain.

Is he awake?

[Frozen Angel]

there aren't so much to do with d2 voites

if we assume that mafia didn't holester they either voted 4 different people and lied about it/ they tried voting the person they were killing or that they helped making some one leader but not neccessirly with all their votes though in this case they could easily lie about it

[Frozen Angel]

yeah but I'm assuming scum can't forget but might lie about that cause

They are 4 people who can't forget together

Also they can be in cerb voters cause cerb died (shiro and sando amazingly)

[Frozen Angel]

should relook at the bbmolla slot and the readlist later, I'm gonna take a little nap

[Frozen Angel]

I can't imagine a world were ank didn't choose bp two nights in row. either titus lied and did'nt give her abilities last night and they chose something else night 1 or scum has strongman kills

Ehhhhhhh........

Idk, I have a theory floating up in my head.

Power negation would work.

Most obvious option is scum in the Titus superhero team chose it and used on Ank for dat kill.

This really makes no sense. IS is an active power. Unless Ank had reason to think she was the target she probably would have utilized her other power, since she had two of them.

Nancy power negation blocks all super power using - like bp and the phasing

That means by doing that on player x, the factional kill targeting them will be strongmaned

[Frozen Angel]

Is it worth browsing through these pages?

Shiro is conf!Scum for lying about talking with Cerb more than likely.

“Cerb” refused to answer both Drixx’s and my questions.

Not sure how reliable your "conf!scum" is, but whatever.

I need the VC.

Just read the pages it's actually very important discussion

[Frozen Angel]

Can't really see a world where ankamius didnt try to link Cerb last night.

Ank was also the person to point out the spiritual guidance problem with my FA paranoia.

On the other hand I don't think Ank corrected me about how the redirect would have to occur when I was theorising.

Ank with confidence in FA town would probably still BP themselves N2 though, knowing they'd be a scum-target as future-leader.

Not if Ank thought Titus was scum? Why? Because of the power negztion thing. She would have to know IS would be useless in that case, assuming she even got a power N2.

yeah but scum team for being sure they can shoot ank should have used power negate which still points out to at least one scum in last night superpower pool

[Frozen Angel]

Can't really see a world where ankamius didnt try to link Cerb last night.

Ank was also the person to point out the spiritual guidance problem with my FA paranoia.

On the other hand I don't think Ank corrected me about how the redirect would have to occur when I was theorising.

Ank with confidence in FA town would probably still BP themselves N2 though, knowing they'd be a scum-target as future-leader.

Not if Ank thought Titus was scum? Why? Because of the power negztion thing. She would have to know IS would be useless in that case, assuming she even got a power N2.

yeah but scum team for being sure they can shoot ank should have used power negate which still points out to at least one scum in last night superpower pool

Can’t have it both ways FA

If you believe Titus scum then “scum should” is not a thing
And if I follow your case you’re making a case scum exist simply because power negation is in the list
But with Precognition as a power that means the lists have to have been made before the game started.

Please clarify?

From ank pov: if she was sure there was a scum with power negate she knew she couldn't do bp so she would go with her medium probably. otherwise she could decide between bp or other abilities she had

From mafia pov: they couldn't possibly guess if Ank is doing the bp or something else so their optimal play would be using power negation on ank then killing her.

[Frozen Angel]

She tried to neutralize a big source of us getting reads saying “it should all be random”

Town Titus does not ever advocate for anything that destructive

gonna trust you here

Titus posted like 20 pages day 1 trying to convince me who was the leader to choose random people

[Frozen Angel]

So yeah I think it's safe to assume that no scum would try killing ank UNLESS if they had power negate or a factional strongman or if they just decided to do a bold move and trust her softs that she was using medium last night.

[Frozen Angel]

Spoiler:

Can't really see a world where ankamius didnt try to link Cerb last night.

Ank was also the person to point out the spiritual guidance problem with my FA paranoia.

On the other hand I don't think Ank corrected me about how the redirect would have to occur when I was theorising.

Ank with confidence in FA town would probably still BP themselves N2 though, knowing they'd be a scum-target as future-leader.

Not if Ank thought Titus was scum? Why? Because of the power negztion thing. She would have to know IS would be useless in that case, assuming she even got a power N2.

yeah but scum team for being sure they can shoot ank should have used power negate which still points out to at least one scum in last night superpower pool

Can’t have it both ways FA

If you believe Titus scum then “scum should” is not a thing
And if I follow your case you’re making a case scum exist simply because power negation is in the list
But with Precognition as a power that means the lists have to have been made before the game started.

Please clarify?

From ank pov: if she was sure there was a scum with power negate she knew she couldn't do bp so she would go with her medium probably. otherwise she could decide between bp or other abilities she had

From mafia pov: they couldn't possibly guess if Ank is doing the bp or something else so their optimal play would be using power negation on ank then killing her.

Uhmmm

No

Still wrong

If Ank was so sure about scum having a power negate A) She attacks the list before the end of day and B) Then she would take literally whatever as power negate would make it useless. So saying she would take another power she knew would be negated is just as ridiculous as saying she would not take BP because useless?

I agree from the mafia POV that would be an optimal play.
However I can create a lot of optimal plays. That isn’t a case for that specific scenario.

yeah thing about ank is she could use medium on cerb last night instead of using bp as she softed. That part about being sure about scum being in pool was nancy premise.

My point was just that mafia pov has nothing to do with what ank chose. To kill a player who could access to bp you either disable the bp or you risk. In this case I find it very likely that the power negate was used on ank before her being killed.

[Frozen Angel]

The thing here is that if I was ank I would always choose bp last night. as second choice of leader and a universal tr that medium choosing was really suboptimal. People like ufo or you should have done that just like the way shiro claims he did.

[Frozen Angel]

Also it was a really bad play from cerb to not choose a bp/redirect n1 cause that gave them a free kill. If he really got medium as shiro claimed and it was not a factional strongman or something like that I mean. Mafia got 2 free kills on universal townreads and it's on them and no one else.

@Nancy and yes I mentioned your point before. If titus is scum its very likely that ank didn't even got any power last night though there was the danger for medium.

[Frozen Angel]

Spoiler:

Can't really see a world where ankamius didnt try to link Cerb last night.

Ank was also the person to point out the spiritual guidance problem with my FA paranoia.

On the other hand I don't think Ank corrected me about how the redirect would have to occur when I was theorising.

Ank with confidence in FA town would probably still BP themselves N2 though, knowing they'd be a scum-target as future-leader.

Not if Ank thought Titus was scum? Why? Because of the power negztion thing. She would have to know IS would be useless in that case, assuming she even got a power N2.

yeah but scum team for being sure they can shoot ank should have used power negate which still points out to at least one scum in last night superpower pool

Can’t have it both ways FA

If you believe Titus scum then “scum should” is not a thing
And if I follow your case you’re making a case scum exist simply because power negation is in the list
But with Precognition as a power that means the lists have to have been made before the game started.

Please clarify?

From ank pov: if she was sure there was a scum with power negate she knew she couldn't do bp so she would go with her medium probably. otherwise she could decide between bp or other abilities she had

From mafia pov: they couldn't possibly guess if Ank is doing the bp or something else so their optimal play would be using power negation on ank then killing her.

Uhmmm

No

Still wrong

If Ank was so sure about scum having a power negate A) She attacks the list before the end of day and B) Then she would take literally whatever as power negate would make it useless. So saying she would take another power she knew would be negated is just as ridiculous as saying she would not take BP because useless?

I agree from the mafia POV that would be an optimal play.
However I can create a lot of optimal plays. That isn’t a case for that specific scenario.

yeah thing about ank is she could use medium on cerb last night instead of using bp as she softed. That part about being sure about scum being in pool was nancy premise.

My point was just that mafia pov has nothing to do with what ank chose. To kill a player who could access to bp you either disable the bp or you risk. In this case I find it very likely that the power negate was used on ank before her being killed.

I agree, IF scum are in the people Titus chose or if Titus herself is scum.

However, you’re making an assumption here and putting the cart before the horse.

viewtopic.php?p=8328378#p8328378

It’s a similar thing you did in Shadowrun but I did not stop you as you thinking scum in the Matrix was a good thing.

If Titus is scum (as she likely is) then yes it makes sense. However you’re going backwards

You’re assuming scum used power negate because it is on the list to then assume there is scum in the list.

I'm not making assumptions I'm just considering all scenarios trying to think about what a sane scum team did last night. It's obvious that we can't assume players could have done risky play/less optimal play but to understand which scenario was more lekely you must spin the chessboard around and see the game from your opponent perspective sometimes.

I'm not saying that was all that could happen just that what was the optimal scumteam approach here.

[Frozen Angel]

Also it was a really bad play from cerb to not choose a bp/redirect n1 cause that gave them a free kill. If he really got medium as shiro claimed and it was not a factional strongman or something like that I mean. Mafia got 2 free kills on universal townreads and it's on them and no one else.

@Nancy and yes I mentioned your point before. If titus is scum its very likely that ank didn't even got any power last night though there was the danger for medium.

Except not exactly. If everyone continuously takes BP and scum have a power negation we get nowhere.

Again FA please slow your roll and think this through.

I gotta go to work.

cerb didn't know about power negation n1 and he could dodge that kill or he could redirect it to someone else. I beleive the medium was suboptimal choice for n1 for "cerb" who was a nearly top tr and who had effect in game. (this is all assuming no weird unknown strongman factional kills)

anyway I get your point. I think you don't understand mine. You think I'm tunneling and sorting people based on one assumption (that people think they are playing optimal). That is not the place I am. I'm just theorizing scenarios not basing my reads because of these.

[Frozen Angel]

On top of that, he posted it first thing the day after going a gross misrepresentation of me. Seriously meant to just say "oh what a silly joker Nos is, with his fakeclaims of guilties on townies". Seriously?

ok but sando, you have to be town for this line to work.

Is it worth browsing through these pages?

Shiro is conf!Scum for lying about talking with Cerb more than likely.

“Cerb” refused to answer both Drixx’s and my questions.

I still see no reason for the prevalent thought in this town to be that shiro is lying

The lie that shiro is presumably perpetuating so so high risk low reward, that even in concept it makes almost no sense for shiro to make it, especially considering the amount of people that know cerb pretty intimately and have a long history with him that I'm pretty sure shiro does not have.

The two options here are: cerb doesn't want to confirm or shiro is scum lying in a weird convoluted gambit that makes ostensibly no discernible sense

use that stupid occam's razor that gets spammed on this site so much

this is so dumb to watch

It makes a lot of sense

Fuck I hate I have to go to work right now Drixx or FA please explain this

Yeah, that's my stance on the matter since the start of the day. I'm saying it's dumb from ALL perspectives looking at it. Hence why I want it fixed by the very possible town shiro + town drixx hypothetical chat. unless if scum for some reason didn't think about the risk of this gambit beforehand and they just went through it.

I can't beleive cerb is refusing to answer math question cause it would give math fake credit and that he won't answer drixx questions cause he doesn't want shiro to have credits. This infoirmation denial is paralyzing for this game state and it should end now.

[Frozen Angel]

Fuck I hate I have to go to work right now Drixx or FA please explain this

ok, I've seen the whole devil whatever gambit

its stupid bottom line

there's no way shiro makes this gambit here imo

the devils proof is not a gambit its a thing about the stuff you can't prove they exist directly like cerb talking to shiro. The gambit would be shiro trying to make it look like they have contact with cerb to get an alibi for last night power use or something which is pretty dumb and doesn't make sense with shiro doing it. That doesn't change the fact that cerb existence is NOT confirmed for absolutely no valid reason.

[Frozen Angel]

this is going to lead to a lynch other than sando isn't it...

we're less than 24 hours in the day. we're

NOT

Lynching anyone till stuff are clarified and we reach a conscious about reads.

I also have not submitted a list yet

and I won't do it till I have better more solid town read and this foggy state is gone.

[Frozen Angel]

or am I missing something about Shiro and Drixx?

did you read the chat? what do you think about shiro's action? what do you think about people actions around the time it was happening?

[Frozen Angel]

@Fa in regard to you saying this was ourbest lead about ank death cerb says that

If I am lying then I will resolve myself before day end as long as nothing stupid happens like a quick lynch, that means you can safely look at other suspects. If you think scum~me never commutes with cerb and it is proved later then the pool is narrowed down. If you think that scum~me is commuting with me then you are just rearranging, nothign is lost and we gain nothing by making me prove it at this early junction of the game.

yeah sure

Ask cerb what he thinks about sando

[Frozen Angel]

Also it was a really bad play from cerb to not choose a bp/redirect n1 cause that gave them a free kill. If he really got medium as shiro claimed and it was not a factional strongman or something like that I mean. Mafia got 2 free kills on universal townreads and it's on them and no one else.

@Nancy and yes I mentioned your point before. If titus is scum its very likely that ank didn't even got any power last night though there was the danger for medium.

Except not exactly. If everyone continuously takes BP and scum have a power negation we get nowhere.

Again FA please slow your roll and think this through.

I gotta go to work.

cerb didn't know about power negation n1 and he could dodge that kill or he could redirect it to someone else. I beleive the medium was suboptimal choice for n1 for "cerb" who was a nearly top tr and who had effect in game. (this is all assuming no weird unknown strongman factional kills)

anyway I get your point. I think you don't understand mine. You think I'm tunneling and sorting people based on one assumption (that people think they are playing optimal). That is not the place I am. I'm just theorizing scenarios not basing my reads because of these.

The problem with theorizing scenarios not based on reads is two fold
1) Discussion moves to mechanics instead of hunting
2) Those mechanic suggestions creep into reads

So if your suggestion had nothing to do with reads why mention it at all?

*confused*

Discussing these stuff helps evaluting the reads that are formed because its about people motivations. Also this game mechanics create a specific setting that makes these talks more valuable (because we can track the ability use and we have a lead about it because of the specific leader chooses pr setting)

I agree that all these tools are tools at the end and ONLY thing that can be categorized as read should be "motivations" and the "pattern of behavior". these tools are just what helps to understand how the game is and what is heppening and what reads make sense and what doesn't etc.

[Frozen Angel]

I don't understand what are we even discussing here. you have an issue with me saying that scum optimal strategy for killing ank was power neglate?

[Frozen Angel]

Fuck I hate I have to go to work right now Drixx or FA please explain this

ok, I've seen the whole devil whatever gambit

its stupid bottom line

there's no way shiro makes this gambit here imo

the devils proof is not a gambit its a thing about the stuff you can't prove they exist directly like cerb talking to shiro. The gambit would be shiro trying to make it look like they have contact with cerb to get an alibi for last night power use or something which is pretty dumb and doesn't make sense with shiro doing it. That doesn't change the fact that cerb existence is NOT confirmed for absolutely no valid reason.

The or something is smart.

If people believed him and he is scum
Then “Cerb” as “conf!town” pushes a scum agenda

That is where the power lies for scum.

I could easily see a Titus Shiro team killing Ank so they can pull it off.

yeah "devil's proof" is applicable to god and is what religions do. it's applicable to aliens etc

It's smart to use it. It's not smart to use it by claiming they can have a chat with cerb cause people know cerb and can tackle it down which is either a suboptimal/mistake/bad play by scum or just a town and cerb is doing it for some reason that I can't comprehand.

[Frozen Angel]

@Titus, your plan has a flaw, if scum is in the team tonight and they pick power negation they can kill FA(assuming town) and negate me thus preventing me from talking to ank.

I can't die tonight. I'm leader today

[Frozen Angel]

I don't understand what are we even discussing here. you have an issue with me saying that scum optimal strategy for killing ank was power neglate?

Yes.
Because
1> We don’t know what happened
2> Scum may not have thought of it (especially if Titus scum she gets moonlogicky)
3> It puts a suggestion scum are optimal/suboptimal when we just don’t know.

The narrative/gamestate is a big thing that scum can use to fuck with people.

It's not even about the scum in this game. It's just a fact that the optimal play for scum in this situation was using power negate and killing ank or just not doing it.

I'm not assuming anything about the game state. if you think this "spin the chess board thinking" and "guessing opponent moves" has 0 validity then just don't use it. I'm not using it to produce new reads but as a fact check it can help when we have more info/I want to check reads validity.

[Frozen Angel]

If I was the intended target and I was not power negated I would redirect the kill to sando cause of phasing.

[Frozen Angel]

Wait which redirect would go first? the siren call or the phasing...

[Frozen Angel]

Anyway I have to make dinner so I must leave! will start isoing people next time I'm around

[Frozen Angel]

My biggest question is why FA didn't get killed.

Did scum think she had protection?

I couldn't die n1 and I couldn't die last night unless if I was power nagated

[Frozen Angel]

actually if you look at it that way you can think that scum didn't use power negation at all yeah

I just think scum thought I'm a risky target and didn't went with me/went with second best kill

pedit: we should check if siren call happens first or the phasing

[Frozen Angel]

Ask cerb what he thinks about sando

He is at the top of his top look deeper into list. He says the irrational resistance to a Sando quicklynxh is concerning, he noticed that while people were discussing swapping to him when he was at 6 votes a lot of people showed up that weren't voting him and the lynch could have happened with hours to spare.

Ask him what he thinks about the points I made about sando

[Frozen Angel]

Ask cerb what he thinks about sando

He is at the top of his top look deeper into list. He says the irrational resistance to a Sando quicklynxh is concerning, he noticed that while people were discussing swapping to him when he was at 6 votes a lot of people showed up that weren't voting him and the lynch could have happened with hours to spare.

Ask him what he thinks about the points I made about sando

FA are you scum?

no. I'm interested to know this hypothetical cerb read is on my read

why did you ask that question?

[Frozen Angel]

Ask cerb what he thinks about sando

He is at the top of his top look deeper into list. He says the irrational resistance to a Sando quicklynxh is concerning, he noticed that while people were discussing swapping to him when he was at 6 votes a lot of people showed up that weren't voting him and the lynch could have happened with hours to spare.

Ask him what he thinks about the points I made about sando

FA are you scum?

no. I'm interested to know this hypothetical cerb read is on my read

why did you ask that question?

Because we already established that we are likely not talking with Cerb. I don’t see what asking “Cerb” does except generate spam. I figure if and when “Cerb” wants to give his opinion he can confirm himself.

Otherwise it’s just Shiro’s opinions with pronouns swapped

The last few things you’ve mentioned have been just noise and I don’t see the help

1 - we established nothing. If shiro fails to prove that is cerb till mid day/eod they will get lynched. till then their opinion matters and they might have cerb opinion
2 - you ask scumreads to elaborate their reads too because when you get more information later such reads/points matter
3 - I'm intrested to know what other people think about the eod of sando and shiro already said this hypotetical cerb was intrested in the eod so my question is asking them to elaborate it
4 - my post are not noise. I've been evaluating players from different perspectives/methods all day long - and in previous days. if you disagree with the stuff I'm doping then do your stuff instead of tackling what I'm doing for consecutive pages.

[Frozen Angel]

@FA

He asks for you to repeat your points.

if he had a real opinion about the last day eod flash wagon on sando he would knew that i was the one pushing it before eod and he should have seen my points. just go at eod and read stuff backward for few pages - iso me etc.

[Frozen Angel]

I really need a town ufo in this game before going crazy with all these not concentrated things in my mind. :whenlifegetsatyou:

[Frozen Angel]

one crazy idea I just got. what if cerb decided to not confirm through shiro cause shiro lied about something cerb said before - like his leader vote or his ability pick?

[Frozen Angel]

@fa from Cerb, almost copy paste. Hopefully I won't be mod killed

He think the super mechanical discussion isn't valuable now. We lack crucial info to make conclusions and stuff. Repeat the Sando thing, he is uncertain what you mean.

He says you are displaying a contradiction by calling my decision to not choose a protective power a really bad one, while also expressing certainty that scum wouldnt go for an "uncertain" kill in someone who was likely to be given the ability to have a protective. Doesn't seem to jive with him. And the talks about power negation. He needs to think about that more.

it should satrt from this post or maybe a little earlier in my iso viewtopic.php?p=10341217#p10341217

I agree with uncertaintly about mechanical talks.

tell cerb that I understand the wifom he tried to pull there and that it didn't work obviously. The two points are actually seprtaed: for you the optimal play was saving your slot and redirceting the kill on another scum imo. scum didn't know you were chosen by me that night did they? there is nothing more to it tbh just my opinion that universal town reads should have tried saving themself the less slots with less credits should have gone with things like medium.

[Frozen Angel]

What if...

We collect all the what ifs...

???

Profit


On a more serious note, I did a tentative visual eyeball vca Cerb for d1. Thoughts on just that?

yeah talking about these what if solves the game not just random guesses. so what if you all do your own things and allow me to do mine instead of just mocking my methods all the time.

[Frozen Angel]

one crazy idea I just got. what if cerb decided to not confirm through shiro cause shiro lied about something cerb said before - like his leader vote or his ability pick?

Why would Shiro lie on leader pick unless to frame me to convince me I am townier than I was to rehash? Basically whiteknight while stirring paranoia.

Also, why lie about Cerb's pick unless Cerb was BP and there had to be scum in FA's pool?

lieing about first is to justify you being picked as leader based on votes. now we have 2-3 players with 2 votes max so you could have been chosen randomly

lieing about second could be for hiding a factional strongman or something.

[Frozen Angel]

I really need a town ufo in this game before going crazy with all these not concentrated things in my mind. :whenlifegetsatyou:

Where is he anyway?

I don't know.

[Frozen Angel]

ugh no it doesn't make any sense in seven hells combined for cerb to not prove themselves here.

[Frozen Angel]

ugh no it doesn't make any sense in seven hells combined for cerb to not prove themselves here.

But doesn’t it make sense, that he doesn’t trust Shiro?

not giving us the information for "not trusting" shiro makes no sense because we should all have this information about shiro's action usage and this information denial is pretty anti town and caused this foggy game state about last night actions/shiro action use.

But not giving us information makes sense if cerb has a "guilty" on shiro makes some sense. That can happen if shiro lied to us about stuff cerb said to him before we started asking shiro questions to prove he has contact with cerb.

or shiro is just lieing for w/e reason. or that cerb was hit by a brick or something and decided to holster this info.

its one of the last 3.

[Frozen Angel]

or shiro is just lieing for w/e reason.

This can't be the case very likely cause it means scum made a very stupid gambit yet still this whole thing makes no sense.

[Frozen Angel]

In any case this day is getting boring.
It's Shiro, Shiro, Shiro, Shiro, Shiro.
If Shiro's lying and Shiro's denying it, I don't know prodding her about it further is gonna make her fess up, you ever seen scum say "I'm scum"?
If Shiro's not lying then Cerb's telling the truth and prodding further isnt gonna get us to answer Drixx's questions.

yeah thanks for clarifying the situation That's why cerb would never reject us when we asked him to prove himself unless if he wanted to show us something is wrong about shiro (if a cerb exists in background for real)

anyway, I'm done for today. tomorrow I'm gonna iso everyone and skim review the game instead of focusing on shiro/cerb. I was really busy today and didn't have time for doing my own investigations/iso hunts.

[Frozen Angel]

UNVOTE:

thanks shiro

going to bed night

[Frozen Angel]

Just skim checked the last two pages. will come back to catch up the pages I lost in few hours

@frozenangel, why do you say here that you will not out power role handouts on day 1, but will on the next day? this assumes surviving, so what makes you think you’d survive to do so? i’d like to know the motive you had behind not revealing that day, but instead revealing the next day.

I was the leader. leaders are immune to lynch and all sort of kills till the end of the night phase so it was known to everyone that I will survive that night.

[Frozen Angel]

I just realized that I'm only missing one page xd

[Frozen Angel]

@Toogeloo read yesterday EOD now if you have time. I want your opinion on the failed CFD (Chinese fire drill - last minute wagoning) on Sando and what do you think about the people actions there.

Also check titus and Sando on Iso and tell us what you think

Same questions @stungun0404

Thanks!

[Frozen Angel]

@Shiro @cerb

I was immortal day 1/night 1 so I didn't need to use the phasing bp. a scum me would use the phasing probably to dodge inves or un-counted stuff i don't know but I chose phasing cause it would grant me night immunity and would allow me to even use the scum night kill against themself like a vig later when I was exposed as I tried to use it last night to redirect stuff to sando last night. I could choose medium or mimic too or to go for a body gaurd but I believed I can show my towniness without using abilities and that saving myself and redirecting the kill to a scum in future nights was a more decent plan.

@Mathblade

I didn't die last night even though scum could kill me with power negation if they had power negation. There is this chance that Ank used siren call on me and that worked before the phasing I tried to perform. I was on phone when I asked about the order of these abilities yesterday. I just asked mods in pm and will wait for their response about it.

On other note yes killing ank over me who softed they are using medium was probably safer specially if scum didn't had power negation or didn't want to use it to out themself.

1) yes we established cerb was being weird. I was fighting you and drixx who was all over the place saying "Shiro is confscum for this" cause that wasn't making any sense from scum shiro + I was saying shiro should die if they don't prove themself eventually and I put my vote on them to show my stance. I beleive using this ability is a towny thing from shiro and that we can trust what shiro said so far before cerb confirmed himself cause he wouldn't do that if shiro was lieing about details like him voting titus.
2) I beleive till someone is not confirmed scum we must evaluate them and listen to what they have to say. as the game goes forward it will clean itself from noises automatically. whats important is to have as much as info as you can
3) You questioned me asking shiro and cerb about sando. I'm intrested in people stances on sando and that eod and I asked several people not just shiro/cerb.
4) You criticize my chessboard (AB game) thinking and you do it yourself

what do you know about the scum night kill and why did they do it. Not killing me was very smart of them tbh cause I couldn't die. but anyway you're scenario hunting is not at all different from what I was trying to do with ank night kill before.

[Frozen Angel]

Also what about my posts doesn't make sense? you all keep saying that yet you fail to quote directly pin point what are you talking about?

you have concerns about my stance about that shiro-cerb thing yesterday? or do you have concern about my reads or how I develop them? cause I certainly did nothing about evaluating my reads so far this day phase as I was busy and all I could afford to do was keeping up with game and phone commenting for most day about the current things which were getting discussed

[Frozen Angel]

Also, one thing else I was thinking about: Reading shiro should be a proiority today

because he can target ank tonight and we will know more about the night kill and stuff that happened if we do that. for making sure it can happen - in case shiro is town we can make shiro a leader but that's risky if shiro is not town.

[Frozen Angel]

Also what about my posts doesn't make sense? you all keep saying that yet you fail to quote directly pin point what are you talking about?

you have concerns about my stance about that shiro-cerb thing yesterday? or do you have concern about my reads or how I develop them? cause I certainly did nothing about evaluating my reads so far this day phase as I was busy and all I could afford to do was keeping up with game and phone commenting for most day about the current things which were getting discussed

1) Yes I do “scenario” testing/“AB” testing as you’re calling it. However only when there are no other possibilities do I share the theory and how I got where I am. Otherwise I keep the theory to myself and ask enough questions to see if it is valid and if I have a reasonable doubt or I am trying to find out where in my logic it is.

2) The reads and how you are developing them. It feels like you’re suggesting stuff and seeing what sticks. I also didn’t see how you were trusting Shiro without the confirmation in place.

3) We’ve been having a discussion about what doesn’t make sense and yet I am not quoting it. What?

1) That's exactly what I was doing!!!! The only thing I talked about was when I was trying to correct sando and stuff said about shiro-cerb etc. I never even initiated such mechanical discussions in game. Even you did that more than me!

2) Which read do you have concerns about? I haven't out any reads in this day phase yet. I just asked a bunch of questions and threw some theories out there to see where they go. About me trusting shiro. where did that happen? I said It doesn't make sense from scum him to fake anything like that but I'll vote him till he proves cerb exist. Till it would get naturally concluded by a lynch on shiro or shiro confirming cerb, it was an unnecessary thing to focus on so I asked shiro, assuming he would confirm cerb cause it was the most reasonable outcome - as it was a bizarre gambit otherwise, to ask cerb about sando read as a person with fresh view who just showed some concern about that same eod few posts before that.

3) No I mean the specific reads/posts you have issue with. You're talking to general about it. shiro did the same thing too. It's annoying AF

[Frozen Angel]

I'm also not caught up since my posts in morning. It's too freaking warm here and I'm dieing because of it. Gona take a shower and will start working on my reads. if you have concerns or misunderstanding about the stuff I said be transparent and direct about them please or else it will just waste both of our times.

[Frozen Angel]

Yeah I was just under the effect of this warm weather. choosing you as leader won't save you tonight so it has no effect regardless

[Frozen Angel]

i got you fa! precisely what pages would you like me to read and analyze from eod?

fun fact, you of all players should actually know my alt! we together won your and my first LYLO game as town if you remember. i remember it like it was yesterday

scum better watch out if it’s fa and stungun together again in lylo. that’s all i’ll say on that note...

Ewwwwwwwww

That's kinda cute buddying. I'm actually interested to alt hunt this xd

will check my wiki later today

[Frozen Angel]

Btw from Cerb

He says he disliike that FA explained away why she wasn't killed, and then went on to say that it was a good thing scum hadn't tried because it wouldn't have worked anyways, when the entire thing she's been arguing has been that scum used power negation, which she herself told. Us would stop the phasing, o kill Ank. If that is what scum were doing then why was it OK that she had phasing?

I most certainly never said it's a good thing that scum didn't do it! I was just explaining to math how I couldn't die unless with power negation.

That was something I was not considering last night when I was thinking about how ank who could get bp or something past 2 nights died last night. It was something that was initially brought up in the thread when Nancy mentioned why I didn't die.

[Frozen Angel]

I was trying to redirect stuff into sando. So unless if another redirection happened before my phasing, then scum didn't target me for kill. That much is apparent.

The post cerb is mentioning is probably the one I made in answer to mathblade who posted 3 options about why I'm not dead, I was adding facts to it and showing her how her scenario hunting is weak as much as she was pushing mine last night when I was talking about power negation.

[Frozen Angel]

I don't like shiro as leader. The only reason I suggested that was because for a second I thought it will somehow magically ensure we will have a medium with ank tomorrow and it will save shiro tonight. I was phone posting and It was so hot in the cab I was in...

[Frozen Angel]

@Shiro so you changed your opinion on me because cerb said so. What is your opinion putting cerb aside about me and my stance on your claim last night?

[Frozen Angel]

@Shiro so you changed your opinion on me because cerb said so. What is your opinion putting cerb aside about me and my stance on your claim last night?

I still find you thinking I lied about the chat suspicious.

I didn't think that!

I didn't think this or what mathblade says about trusting you!

I was just finding both perspectives absurd which is why I voted you to pressure you to confirm yourself. I was thinking "you will get lynched if you don't confirm yourself" but I want to make sure people will slowing down in trusting you or suspecting you with explaining how absurd it was from both perspectives.

[Frozen Angel]

Did you miss the part "Shiro is scum

unless if she can prove she has a chat with cerb.

" ?

That's the whole fucking point

yes you were confscum till you were proving that you had chat with cerb and you were bing weird about it but iso me and see the posts about how that doesn't make any sense to come from scum ones so I want to give them time/please slow down ones

[Frozen Angel]

and yeah that should never come from cerb

I'm not sure why would he ever say stuff like that

It's ridiculous and let me be blunt: stupid to think math and you would get fake credit for him confirming to us as a reason for not doing it.

[Frozen Angel]

Should I also add that you tried to use this to clear yourself which honestly makes no sense.

No I didn't use this to clear myself

I said you saying cerb having power confirms me as town cause scum me would never waste a power that I could give scum to give it to cerb just to risk-kill him that night when a power like phasing was available and I know cerb is smart enough to get a power like that and redirect the scum kill.

I would never take that risk as scum ever and anyone who knows like 2% about my scum meta knows that I never bet my scum game on stuff like that.

[Frozen Angel]

It's blatantly stupid to give power to someon like cerb and risk killing them that night and scum me would never ever do that.

[Frozen Angel]

It's blatantly stupid to give power to someon like cerb and risk killing them that night and scum me would never ever do that.

I mean you do take risks as scum.

That is being stupid not taking a risk/securing stuff and you of all people should know that I don't take stupid risks like that ever for litteraly no gain.

[Frozen Angel]

Nancy can you explain your town read on ufo? elaborate how you made such read?

[Frozen Angel]

I don't like shiro as leader. The only reason I suggested that was because for a second I thought it will somehow magically ensure we will have a medium with ank tomorrow and it will save shiro tonight. I was phone posting and It was so hot in the cab I was in...

Why not? I would obviously prefer Tor but he just hasn’t been around and if Cerb is correct about any of his suspicions, while I’m fine with Sakura being picked but only if we can be 100% sure of her picks. I feel much better about who Shiro will pick for SH, aren’t you? That’s why Tor is obviously the safest choice - if he actually fucking posted!

I'm not sure if I have a good enough read on the slot yet.

[Frozen Angel]

@stungun0404 What about my posts/read on sando are thread spam? I literally had 0 not game related/spam posts this entire game.

did you even read my posts about sando from last day phase?

[Frozen Angel]

Nancy are you even reading my replies to these points shiro/cerb made or what?

[Frozen Angel]

Where did I use the shiro cerb thing to say I'm conftown? I said cerb claiming they really had an ability in a night they could learn phasing or bp and they died anyway is a soft inno on me who chose to gave them power that night cause scum!me would never risking to target a person I gave power to to use phasing and kill a hypotetical scum mate of mine with it.

Where did I say I'm conftown for shiro not confirming cerb yesterday?

[Frozen Angel]

that is so out of conetxt and I can't beleive it's getting repeated even though I answered it trice or four times rn

[Frozen Angel]

and yeah that should never come from cerb

I'm not sure why would he ever say stuff like that

It's ridiculous and let me be blunt: stupid to think math and you would get fake credit for him confirming to us as a reason for not doing it.

Wait. How does Math get credit for anything?

shiro said that cerb said he didn't answer math question (that would prove cerb existence to us) cause it would give math fake credit

[Frozen Angel]

1) yes we established cerb was being weird. I was fighting you and drixx who was all over the place saying "Shiro is confscum for this" cause that wasn't making any sense from scum shiro + I was saying shiro should die if they don't prove themself eventually and I put my vote on them to show my stance.

This is actually false and so is your recent post in the P. Edit.

You flat out said numerous times together with Drixx that stuff I was saying never come from Cerb ever.

@Drixx

Cerb says that maybe he wants everyone to suspect me so he can create associatives like he would do if he was alive by acting scummy/arrogant.

Or maybe he doesn't trust me enough to confirm me so I dont start saying shit he isn't telling me after I confirm the link.

This is not coming from cerb ever

Titus calling dirxx crazy with his posts makes no sense.

Shiro is scum

unless if she can prove she has a chat with cerb.

Like here. For example.

Damn I like this post.

Have a null read.

But that is bullshit the "unless" part that I was fighting about all yesterday was in the same post he quoted.

I like shiro saying that but you all are being filthy with whatever you're doing with my content.

[Frozen Angel]

I posted like 50 posts about shiro cerb situation. Not in one I called shiro confirmed scum already. My stance was always: if he fails to do this he is confscum and my vote will be here till he proves it cause this posts are absurd if they are coming from cerb and I can't believe that yet I can't see a scum!shiro gambling this so slow down but keep the pressure.

That's litteraly every post I made yesterday about shiro - cerb situation and I've been questioned by both sides for
1- how I trust shiro when it was "established" the cerb convo was real
2 - how I didn't consider scum!shiro would not do it
when I actually considered both since the very start and both together was my stance on this matter.

[Frozen Angel]

and yeah that should never come from cerb

I'm not sure why would he ever say stuff like that

It's ridiculous and let me be blunt: stupid to think math and you would get fake credit for him confirming to us as a reason for not doing it.

All it would demonstrate is that I know Cerb?

And like as pointed out part of the question was searchable.

The why was buried in a PT so with the size of that game I felt cool asking it.

Like there would be like no credit? I am confused about how I would get fake credit when there is none here and any credit I get would be justified.

It was what shiro posted as cerb response when we questioned why cerb would decide to not answer.

And the stuff you just posted is what I meant about it when I said it was bizzare last night.

I returned my vote on shiro for pressure after I saw that response and the one about fake credit that shiro would get. cerb proving they exist is just giving us info about shiro ability use which is not fake info and not giving us that confirmation is denying us the information that we should have had and cerb of all people should knew that.

[Frozen Angel]

@stungun0404 What about my posts/read on sando are thread spam? I literally had 0 not game related/spam posts this entire game.

did you even read my posts about sando from last day phase?

i have not read the sando's posts yet. i'll get around to them

i did a quick dive earlier into your iso and found several posts that just added to your post count number without necessarily needing to be posted. instead, you could have included them within your more meaningful posts.

examples: as single posts; 96 which is just XD, 131 which is only an emoji, 236 we are the champions vive la france, 421 maybe? and much of the posts i've seen this particular day phase from you
do you really need to ask 4032 as a post when this thread is already heavily bombarded, and you can confirm it in the op or in dreamweaver's post. another thing --> replying to each post in separate posts, so as to encourage the thread to expand further. only valid excuse to this i can think of is if you are always on mobile, because then it is harder to reply to multiple posts at once. ok, i felt like it was worse before i reinvestigated it, but please cut me some slack as i'm already having trouble keeping up with this game, or i'd honestly be a more readable player right now than i presently am.

i feel you could definitely towntell better than you have if you are town.

i'm going to iso eod from last day even though you real quick even though you never specified what page area you wanted me to investigate, and give further opinions from the iso of titus and sando even though i've already taken stances on both of them.

well, 96 was kinda unnecessary tbh I agree. the emot has content. the 236 was about we winning the world cup which is the only not game related post that I will be always proud of that I posted it (or was it us winning against Belgium?)

I usually posting using a phone which makes it harder to go back and check stuff and when I want real-time things I ask one or two questions like that but sure I agree those can be reduced. but you have to admit that these posts that have no content/less content are literally nothing if you count the ones that have content. I'm like 99% posting game related stuff.

[Frozen Angel]

Nancy are you even reading my replies to these points shiro/cerb made or what?

Yes I am, why? What do you think I missed?

You kept quoting shiro questions/out of context/confusion takes and questions about/from me without acknowledging my responses which were weird

[Frozen Angel]

Math asked a question from shiro too by my request so cerb would answer to confirm they are in chat with shiro

shiro didn't answer it then even though they said cerb is online

few hours later shiro claimed cerb said that they didn't want to give Math who asked question fake cred or something like that. and he didn't want to give cred to shiro for proving his role

which both were bizarre and were the reason I posted that "These are never coming from cerb" and I voted back shiro asking them to convince the hypothetical cerb to confirm himself faster.

[Frozen Angel]

replace are math with mathblade not mathematics. this had nothing to do with drixx questions

[Frozen Angel]

if you know what I mean? it's just not a kill I would've expected.... FA is super widely townread plus clearly has a superpower plus is hyperengaged with the game vs. Anka who was fixing an eeehhhhh slot didn't have a power and I guess her engagement was solid too but y'know

Are you suggesting that Cerb lied to Shiro? Do you think it was some kind of gambit on his part to maybe test FA?

I’m thinking this because Cerb would not want to fuck FA over by revealing her power - if he knew she had one. He clearly realizes that Superheroes are being targeted and I think he lied to Shiro to keep FA safe. How do we even know for sure that Cerb even got notified of receiving a power or that he even chose mimicry? Cerb still wants to impact the game as much as he can and for as long as he can, right? So fakeclaiming he got mimicry - whether or not he even selected it - makes me wonder. I don’t really question anything else but that seems kind of unlikely to me.

Yeah, I think maybe Shiro got played by Cerb here. That explains why she thinks FA is lying about that. Lololol

But what makes you say Ank didn’t have a superpower? Do we even know if the dead can acquire them? - obviously assuming he even chose one on N1 and used it. He obviously couldn’t have used SM.

what the fuck does this mean? are you accusing me of secretly getting a power and using it n1? I did get a superpower night 1 and just holestered it cause I was immortal anyway and you don't redirect stuff out of your slot unless if you beleive you're kill target

[Frozen Angel]

and cerb is not thinking I lied about anything. He confirmed what I said about holstering actions night 1 after I claimed it!

[Frozen Angel]

@Sakura the reason we chose ank over you was because ank could use bp/ would be harder to kill as they were in both mine and titus list and other people went with ank over sakura in pages it was being discussed.

@Worst I couldn't die last night unless by power negation. I don't know why they didn't try to kill me there. but you all gave me the powers to live night phases and now I'm getting scumread for it?

anyway. Phasing happens before the siren call. I had this clarified with mod last night. that means ank was directly the assault and I was not the kill target that redirected to him or something like that. This means either ank was mediuming or power mimicing or something and didn't use bp OR someone used power negation on them to kill them.

[Frozen Angel]

Fa 9s right here, only I knew beforehand cause Cerb told me but told me to say nothing.

what do you mean 9s?

[Frozen Angel]

I feel like I'll never know if FA has us all fooled unless she flips

Yeah that's the amazing part yes? give me the leader position 2 times so you get me mislynched at the end yourself cause you can't know if I fooled you all?

Like what is this line of thinking - even. I'm so obv town with how I ability used and distributed the power n1 cause two people I could give phasing/bp to are already killed. Unless if you're arguing scum had extra factional power that could strongman that crap, I'm the closest thing in this game to conftown. Cerb also confirmed that I gave him ability the night he died!

[Frozen Angel]

Fa Cerb wants me to remind you that he quite vocally believes that people are idiots and even more so as town.

So, in the universe where town is dumb, whoever "forces" confirmation that he is talking ot me to "resolve" that thing as a mediator WILL be given town credit by people. And he is quite certain about that.

The people you're talking about is drixx me mathblade you etc

so yeah it's just a little bit offensive

but sure if he was thinking we're idiots that makes sense coming from him

[Frozen Angel]

Something I forgot to say from Cerb about fa

the statement that she was pressuring me to confirm while not thinking I am scum is BS. If she was pressuring anyone, it was CONFTOWN DEAD PERSON CERB . You don't vote a confirmed people to pressure them into revealing something they crumbed, and that's basically what she w
Did . If she legitimately thought you were scum, that's fine, but if she didn't think faking that was in my scum range (as it appeared in some posts to be the case) and were voting anyways, it's super shit town play, or scum.

Yeah that's not what I said even remotely. I said you were acting bizzare so I voted you to see if you can hold up to your claim/convince cerb to out themselves faster. and yes you were acting bizzare with such responses.

You can't disproof someone like cerb exists - as I said earlier in day phase. it's like proving aliens doesn't exist. or god doesn't exist. You can't do that. But you can prove they exist if you just show me one cerb.

faking that was not a gambit scum!you would do but what you were doing there was suggesting there is something bizzare going on and I wanted that out of this fucking game. so you would either confirm yourself or you would die with that lie if it was.

[Frozen Angel]

Fa Cerb wants me to remind you that he quite vocally believes that people are idiots and even more so as town.

So, in the universe where town is dumb, whoever "forces" confirmation that he is talking ot me to "resolve" that thing as a mediator WILL be given town credit by people. And he is quite certain about that.

The people you're talking about is drixx me mathblade you etc

so yeah it's just a little bit offensive

but sure if he was thinking we're idiots that makes sense coming from him

This was about mathblade and how you said confirming wouldn't give cred to them.

yeah but I'm saying the people you're calling idiots here are the rest of us who are in game

[Frozen Angel]

But if you think this isn't a gambit scum me would do why would you want me dead?

cause if it was a lie it was somehow a gambit from scum you.

I was thinking it's unlikely cause that would be stupid but everything there was suggesting something bizzare happened I had to know what. If it was you lieing about cerb exist or lieing a detail he told you before - which would make sense for him to not confirm himself anymore - would mean you being guilty and that would mean you had to die.

me thinking it's not in your scum range gave me enough courage to say that 2 million times that I want to give you time to fix this and you were not voted for most of that period. I only voted you to increase the pressure when you quoted cerb about the reason about why he is not confirming cause that was such a horse shit reason.

[Frozen Angel]

See you are being inconsistent. You say you think scum me wouldn't do that but it was bizzare, even if you saw it as bizzare it still means you thought it was from town me. If that is the case the logical conclusion is that the bizzarness was coming from conftown Cerb.

Which means you would lynch me who you said thought wouldn't gambit like that as scum for a bizzare test conftown was doing.

How is that logical town thinking?

There is no inconsistency there

I wanted to believe your scum would not act like an idiot. but here there was something idiotic and it reached the point that it had to be clarified one way or the other.

How is that inconsistent in any universe? That is probably the most consistent stance anyone has ever took about anything in a mafia game since this game was getting played

[Frozen Angel]

You either were a scum who was lieing or you were telling the truth as either alignment.

You would not be conftown for anything realted to this power claim. Even scum you could have been telling the truth! Not taking a gambit for lieing about cerb which was my initial assumption does NOT make you town even in slightest.

It is a complicated stance and it seems you are trying to accuse me of TMI because of the complexity of the stance but that is not the way my posts should be looked at. If you actually review my posts you can see how I had this stance about not wanting to rush kill you for this bizarre crap unlike the way math and drixx were suggesting and wanting to solve the bizarre crap at the same time just so we could move on from the "devil's proof" which was just adding a useless argument/discord.

It all got a bit more serious when you quoted cerb about his reasoning because it looked like you're actually cought and you're making stuff up so I voted you and asked you to convince cerb to fix this crap faster if he was real.

[Frozen Angel]

I still don't have a solid town read on you.

this push on me is so towny because of the way it's consistent and genuinely tunneled though it's coming from cerb and I don't think I should give cred to you for a push another town is making and you're just duplicating it

I actually think you're initial concern about me when you posted it was a bit fake and over the top about the how you don't fake neighborhoods and I should be scum for saying that when I wasn't saying that.

[Frozen Angel]

TMI?

I don't know what it stands for but it means extra knowledge about what players alignments are. You are repeatedly accusing me of knowing your alignment which is what I'm trying to show is wrong.

[Frozen Angel]

See you are being inconsistent. You say you think scum me wouldn't do that but it was bizzare, even if you saw it as bizzare it still means you thought it was from town me. If that is the case the logical conclusion is that the bizzarness was coming from conftown Cerb.

Which means you would lynch me who you said thought wouldn't gambit like that as scum for a bizzare test conftown was doing.

How is that logical town thinking?

There is no inconsistency there

I wanted to believe your scum would not act like an idiot. but here there was something idiotic and it reached the point that it had to be clarified one way or the other.

How is that inconsistent in any universe? That is probably the most consistent stance anyone has ever took about anything in a mafia game since this game was getting played

But by thinking that it means you knew the idiotic was coming from conftown who you should know had his reasons

Both TMI comment and the one about your alignment was a response to this post.

[Frozen Angel]

TMI?

I don't know what it stands for but it means extra knowledge about what players alignments are. You are repeatedly accusing me of knowing your alignment which is what I'm trying to show is wrong.

Too much insight perhaps?

huh that makes sense

[Frozen Angel]

Cerb says care with sando votes cause he is reaching lynch threshold.

He also said that he doesn't want fa elected leader ever again in the game because of ank dying over her and each time scum kill someone else over her it is valuable info.

He also believes that scum having factional strongman should be taken as the default not the unlikely scenario.

There is power negation which makes their factional kill nearly strongman anyway. I doubt they have more mechanics to do that

[Frozen Angel]

Cerb says care with sando votes cause he is reaching lynch threshold.

He also said that he doesn't want fa elected leader ever again in the game because of ank dying over her and each time scum kill someone else over her it is valuable info.

He also believes that scum having factional strongman should be taken as the default not the unlikely scenario.

There is power negation which makes their factional kill nearly strongman anyway. I doubt they have more mechanics to do that

Actually I doubt this

Strong man + willed is coming up tomorrow.

Yeah having extra powers in game for that makes sense. Not a factional.

If its also coming out tomorrow thats another reason for it being safe to assume there are no such factionals

[Frozen Angel]

Speaking of leader, FA, do you have any idea of who should be running for tonight?

yeah I was thinking in the pool of mathblade, shiro, drixx (2 of them for leadership) because I like math and drixx especially when they were pushing shiro before and shiro just looks cute and towny when he is pushing me but that push can be originally from cerb.

You can also be a great leader option imo

[Frozen Angel]

I dont understand what makes me a great leader option other than being town.

yeah thats the only factor determining a good leader here.

[Frozen Angel]

@Nancy have you ever responded to me about why you're townreading ufo? I want to know your reasoning.

[Frozen Angel]

Leaders in this game are choosing a pool of 5 players to give powers too. this should be the main councious townreads of game

The most important thing about a leader in this game is that they are not killable that day/night so we want it on our strongest townreads.

I also trust sakura that she can detect the right councious in thread and to not give powers to other people.

[Frozen Angel]

Cerb says that good leader choice + chance they pick nobody but themselves on days with power that bypass BP leads to scenarios that scum are outnumbered by people they can't shoot. Yes this isn't how it went this game but it had to be considered when the game was created.

Hmm his reasoning is pretty solid tbh

Sure but putting such abilities that can make stuff strongman doesn't make sense unless if they had a limited factional strongman or didn't have one. plus extra vigs/blocks makes this too swingy in their favor if they get access to such powers.

I can say that the game setup looks swingy eitherway though.

[Frozen Angel]

Ask cerb who are his leader preferences and ask him to give me a list of 5 of his top townreads.

(I'm not sure about my list of 5 I just want other people opinions)

[Frozen Angel]

He says that
strongman/willed is actually an argument that scum have a factional rb and that power can be paired with whoever has BP/Phasing to make themselves immune.

There is power negation that will make the bp/phasing/siren call useless.

[Frozen Angel]

I have so many mixed feelings about this game. at first I was proud that people trusted me twice to elect me leader and to ask me to sort 2 lists and then most of today was me answering to baseless accusations and people saying how they can't read me unless if I die. I guess it's the burden of being a good scum player in genarl and I should feel good about being in both positions but it makes me think I did a wrong thing asking to become leader yesterday and by choosing phasing.

[Frozen Angel]

I think I like stacking powers in same group of players is more beneficial for town. it's not about not being wrong. it's about being mostly right.

I think we should go with councious townreads not just the people who got powers last nights or didn't get powers last night to spread it. we should just give them to towny people.

[Frozen Angel]

I'm not ateing anyone. I'm a really self-centered player and I focus my slot over anything else in mafia games without actually intending it and when this amount of distrust is against my slot without being able to do anything about it, it paralyzes my ability to play the game. You of all people should know what I'm talking about shiro

In this game I've been given a

near

immortality by players because of last 3 day phases. I can't do anything about it anymore. It seems that you guys have an issue with that but how can I help you guys here?

[Frozen Angel]

I'll arrange my list in a way to make sure our leader choices for tomorrow are safe ofc.

[Frozen Angel]

I think my night 1 party were all town and I think titus party was pretty solid too if beleive she chose ank. I think we should keep up trying to stack the abilities on town reads and try to not distribute it very much

What I think is: we need to give them to townreads and we shouldn't plan on it based on the distribution rate. what matters here and the primary thing we should focus on is to make sure scum can't learn abilities.

[Frozen Angel]

There are 4 scum alive in 19 player - player list.

Spoiler:

Creature - looked towny for his meta
Drixx - looked towny for shiro push
Gamma Emerald - need some focus
hebichan - need some focus
Katsuki - need to die or start playing
Kokichi Oma - need to die or start playing
MathBlade - looked towny yesterday and today
Nancy Drew 39 - I need to relook her
Nosferatu - need to some focus
Sakura Hana - looked towny today with mechanical/reads talks looked really good yesterday when she started fighting with shiro
Sando - need to some focus
Shiro - looked towny with the way he was questioning me earlier, the tunnel felt genuine but I felt its coming from cerb and I'm not sure how much credit I should give shiro for it
stungun0404 - need to some focus
the worst - need to some focus
Titus - need to some focus
Toogeloo - need to some focus
Toranaga - need to some focus
zMuffinMan - need to some focus

Thats the stuff I must do and reread and do isos about. gonna re read like 1 or 2 people now

[Frozen Angel]

the worst you said few pages ago that you had mixed feelings about me but now I'm just scummy. I want to know why you think that now and what about me gave you those mixed feelings before in an elaborated manner.

[Frozen Angel]

your posting is fine but I can't really decide whether it feels like someone trying to solve the game or like someone who wants to look like they're solving the game, like there's just some factor I'm looking for and not really finding there. I'm really absolutely baffled by the choice of nightkill, like I was pretty sure if either of the candidates died it was gonna be you over Anka. the fact we raised this and you melted straight down to AtE has me like..... unsure of how my read on you is even meant to progress

ok some points:
1- I always tried to solve the game since the start of day 1. That is a pretty funny accusation - specially since I was the person leading sando counter wagon yestarday and was asking people to nit just waste our chances by lynching a useless slot that should get replaced.

2- I had a very bad start on day 3 because

a- I'm a little bit sick since last week. I have a sort of flu
b- I was always phone posting in day 3 so far so I had no chance for doing my own hunting. The only time I had pc access and time to do this was like earlier this morning and once that night shiro had that thing going on about cerb
c- I was hosting something last week and a result so many works are piled on here that I must also focus on too
d- whenever I had time I saw someone talking about me. I'm an extremely self-observant person and can't focus/do anything else when people are talking about me. It's just a personality trait that I always had. I even developed ways for scum hunting using that attitude by making people push me to test how valid their pushes are.

3- I never ATEed. what I said was that I'm immortal technically and I'm here because Iyou guys chose me three times. The only way for me to die is power neglate. You can mislynch me ofc but there is nothing I can do about it if your only reasons is that you can't read me yeah?

4- That post you call ATE was never a response to why ank died over me. Ank died over me cause scum chose to kill her. It was not a siren call or anything. if scum had power negation I could die but they didn't kill me and decided to go to kill ank which means:

a- they didn't have power negation
b- they didn't want to use it
c- they thought ank might be using another ability not bp or the phasing so she would be a safe kill
d- they just wanted her dead more than me cause she had a great read on someone somewhere and I'm just useless in comparision.

or these reasons combined

My post there was about how frustrating is to be alive in this game and having people these lowkey mixed feelings about you that you can't do anything about.

[Frozen Angel]

I really liked how sando played today tbh. I actually liked his early stances and power negate hunting and I liked how he responded to my points about yesterday. they all just felt from an ok perspective.

[Frozen Angel]

why do you think I would lynch you?

[Frozen Angel]

I mean what part of my posts suggested that I'm thinking about voting you/pushing you/lynching you?

[Frozen Angel]

what do you think about it and where is your vca before asking others about it?

My answer is primed and ready though!

Sando when you see this just post your answer

[Frozen Angel]

I don't like the way you're dodging to respond to me with a "don't lynch me I'll see the light later" etc its really shady and it seems that you were not even caring to receive my answer since the very start

[Frozen Angel]

I mean fmpov this was a kind of forced engagement...... Given my read on you did you expect me to suddenly have my mind changed inexplicably?

I'm forcing you to engage to me and get out the parts that gave you mixed feelings and to give my honest replies to each. I was expecting some literal responses to each point I made especially the one about why ank died over me. The way you responded is like "yeah yeah sure. But I'm not interested in sorting you. I just like to have a scumread on you since it seems other people have a bunch of concerns"

[Frozen Angel]

Like did you even honestly cared about why ank died over me or did you just make that up? why did you think I ATEed when I was questioned about why ank died over me when the post your mentioning had literally nothing to do with why ank is dead? and did you even bother to iso me/read anything I said before saying that you can't see me solving the game?

[Frozen Angel]

If we rule out the possibility of a factional strongman - which is very likely scums don't have it since it's in tomorrow list and they already could have power negation this means I gave cerb and ank powers of bp or worse a redirection out of their slot which would mean I was nuts as scum for giving them power and trying to kill them two night in row. I'm the closest person in this chat to a confirmed town mechanically and no one here is pushing a case/asking me a question or even taking a direct stance of saying they scumread me / and to tell why are they doing it yet I've been discussed by like 4 players since start of day and was labled scummy for not being dead in a game I can't die in unless by getting mislynched. so yes. I'm actually asking you if you dare to push me completely instead of throwing dirt.

I'm asking you to get the courage to either push me completly or to not do it at all if you don't truely beleive in what you're saying

regarding ank kill: you have legit no insight about the kill and yet you think I should be dead over ank when they could not kill me? Like did you even think about what you said before trying to call it shady or not?

[Frozen Angel]

I'm known to be aggressively defensive as either alignment. It's just my personality. when there are 100 posts in game and 1 is about me I respond to that one and I form my reads starting from people who talk to me/push me/say stuff about me or what I say. That way my reads are more accountable for me.

back to what I was saying about you: you are again repeating the false premise to say that I should have died over ank without anlyzing it or what it means even though I posted 4 strong reasons why scum would choose ank over me. yet you didn't analyze them either and you're repeating it.

I'm not mechanically conftown so you think I should get lynched? even though the chances of me being scum is like 2% because of the actions I took so far and how the game went forward or yopu don't agree that what I said are nearlly locking me as town mechanically? or you don't say you want me lynched? if not why are you questioning my credibility for being alive when I couldn't die unless by power negation? What bothered me about your concerns over stuff shiro or math said is that you refused to take a stance about the stuff you said or paying attention/anlyzing my answers or anything else about me.

[Frozen Angel]

Let us say you would actually have concerns about why ank died over me. Let me spin this chessboard around.

why would anyone have such concerns? cause they thought I was a more towny/valuable player than ank and that I could die. So as a person with a real concern you start the day saying why fa is alive over ank. Lets say you're also lazy to investigate that question that you had. you don't check the mechanics cause you're lazy. you don't check ank reads cause your lazy. and you come in saying I have mix feelings about fa cause she is alive. later when fa points out you act with stubbornness and throw those reasons/important things in trashcan and say if you're obvtown just become one instead of taking a stance.

It's either that or you not giving a fuck about why ank died over me and you wanting to mention it just so you look in a way that you're hunting.

[Frozen Angel]

I am confused on this. We chose you twice yeah?
Who’s your top scumread? Pretend you could vig them right now and ignore the vote counts who is it?

I was twice leader and once a party member chosen by titus.

My top scum read is titus but I'm having a cold feet and I want to spend some time digging her up because I think scum didn't use power negation last night to kill people probably cause ank softed using other abilities and died. I think titus has been coasting really hard this game and is being her scummy self meta wise. I don't see why some people see her towny here tbh

and I also got a cold feet about sando with how he started this day phase. his posting felt good tbh

I need time to update my reads.

Also @everyone I haven't submited any lists yet. lynching right now before discussing more when we have this much time and before discussing leadership is stupid. so please don't.

[Frozen Angel]

Let us say you would actually have concerns about why ank died over me. Let me spin this chessboard around.

why would anyone have such concerns? cause they thought I was a more towny/valuable player than ank and that I could die. So as a person with a real concern you start the day saying why fa is alive over ank. Lets say you're also lazy to investigate that question that you had. you don't check the mechanics cause you're lazy. you don't check ank reads cause your lazy. and you come in saying I have mix feelings about fa cause she is alive. later when fa points out you act with stubbornness and throw those reasons/important things in trashcan and say if you're obvtown just become one instead of taking a stance.

It's either that or you not giving a fuck about why ank died over me and you wanting to mention it just so you look in a way that you're hunting.

I actually HAVE been floating that question in my mind.

I have been checking mechanics but they are just that mechanics. I am investigating that question just by listening. It is troublesome but that may be wine scum are throwing to manipulate me.

I am also wondering why I am so townread. It has me nervous that the only person scumreading me is 404 and 404’s reasoning/logic if you can call it that is just bad.

why would you worry about people not scum reading you?

[Frozen Angel]

@frozenangel, for the slots that so far cumulatively have less than 150 posts in the thread, who do you feel is towniest and why?

I suck at reading people who I haven't engaged with.

It's a talent I lack so i just avoid these slots and watch them from distance as other people take stances about them then I evaluate their reactions to such stances and those pushes to see whay I think about those slots.

But from top of my head, I liked the little posts brandi posted, Creature was in his town meta imo when he was posting actual stuff. I'm not sure about you and nosfertu yet and I must do my deep readings to form a more solid opinion on your slots.

Toogeloo and Katsuki are in different levels of slight scum imo first for the way they were derping earlier which just felt fake and excessive there and because of molla and second because of hard active-lurking

I really need to check hebichan iso before saying things about them eitherway

[Frozen Angel]

TMI?

I don't know what it stands for but it means extra knowledge about what players alignments are. You are repeatedly accusing me of knowing your alignment which is what I'm trying to show is wrong.

omg tmi is a common phrase outside of mafia
it means too much information

I just didn't know the actual words that were abbreviated to it I knew its practical use!

and I'm not living in an English country.

[Frozen Angel]

Hey I pushed you legitimatly >:U

the way you backtracked to town reading me because cerb said so and then bringing back questions that were half from cerb at least is confusing the fuck out of me. but you pushed me over some misunderstanding/confusion. It's a little bit different than what the worst did cause it was pure shade with no actual background.

[Frozen Angel]

Let us say you would actually have concerns about why ank died over me. Let me spin this chessboard around.

why would anyone have such concerns? cause they thought I was a more towny/valuable player than ank and that I could die. So as a person with a real concern you start the day saying why fa is alive over ank. Lets say you're also lazy to investigate that question that you had. you don't check the mechanics cause you're lazy. you don't check ank reads cause your lazy. and you come in saying I have mix feelings about fa cause she is alive. later when fa points out you act with stubbornness and throw those reasons/important things in trashcan and say if you're obvtown just become one instead of taking a stance.

It's either that or you not giving a fuck about why ank died over me and you wanting to mention it just so you look in a way that you're hunting.

I actually HAVE been floating that question in my mind.

I have been checking mechanics but they are just that mechanics. I am investigating that question just by listening. It is troublesome but that may be wine scum are throwing to manipulate me.

I am also wondering why I am so townread. It has me nervous that the only person scumreading me is 404 and 404’s reasoning/logic if you can call it that is just bad.

why would you worry about people not scum reading you?

Because almost every town game I am universally townread has gone horribly horribly wrong.

well, I can't speak for others but in my opinion, you were one of the towniest slots in-game yesterday and your catchup after replacing in felt top notch genuine. I think you're a good scum player but I'm not at all concerned about anything you did in the game so far. which makes me think you're very likely just town here.

Lets not see a horrible game here.

[Frozen Angel]

I don't see why some people see her towny here tbh

Well i haven't liked her content, but...
I think scum Titus would've just sacrificed herself to give her entire scumteam power negation, not only do we have confirmation she's stuck to her leash (except Ank) we also have confirmation that she didnt get Power Negation herself, so even if she lied about Ank getting a power and gave it to a teammate, there's at most 1 person with Power Negation right now.
I think it's more likely she's just town and that's why she followed the leash.

To add on to this, why wouldnt a scum!Titus lie about giving power to you (FA), and shoot you instead by having a teammate use power negation on you, Ank probably didnt need the use of power negation to die, yet you living over ank, probably means no one got power negation last night and Titus is telling the truth and town.

I said last night thing is giving me cold feet but there is one huge arguement against that: she did it cause she wanted to be a townread. her ability choice is also very lame - confirmable just to make people minds easier about her ability choice.

She could kill me using power negation though. that is an undeniable fact. I'm not sure how to think about that whole thing.

[Frozen Angel]

What I'm leaning on is that no power negation was used on ank last night and she died cause of using medium/scum thought she is safe kill cause she said she is doing medium.

we also need to medium her to make sure titus gave a power to ank in first place last night.

[Frozen Angel]

Take Shiro for example. I can think of reasons scum!Shiro would take FA I can think of all sorts of things scum could do to fuck with me and the rest of town. It feels like you’re starting from “this is how I expect things to be played” instead of “this is reality” what is it telling me.

I'm not entirely sure what you're getting at here. What am I saying is expected vs reality?

I also don’t like how you adamantly townread FA and then go “don’t make town leader”

Why?

Risk reduction mostly, if you've ever worked in risk, there's a pretty common matrix (OSHA uses it) of likelihood & outcome. High likelihood and catastrophic outcome are your worst case risks, low likelihood and low outcome are safe to ignore. As much as the likelihood is low, the more eggs you put in one basket the more the outcome becomes more and more catastrophic.

I also think it's a reasonable bet that scum have power negation and let FA live/become leader a second time, that gives me significant pause about the effectiveness of an FA leader, even though I don't think it's scum-indicative.

two of my day 1 picks already flipped town and the other 3 are actually not that bad either. Why would you question my effectiveness based on wifom instead of anlyzing what I did directly.

[Frozen Angel]

It’s like the scene from Princess Bride and the poisoning. You’ve made an assumption as to which goblet is poisoned and then started reads from there. When the reality in that scene is both were.

Yeah I get your premise, I'm struggling for what it's in relation to, is it all the FA discussion?

Assume scum have power negation.
This means that they can stop a power from acting.
This doesn’t all of a sudden make FA a bad leader choice if she is town. It means they may be able to kill her if she is town.

Now if you assume that scum could kill anyone replace FA with Sando. You’d be arguing you’re own ineffectiveness as leader. Unless there is a unique quality that applies to FA there is no point in that post.

You're missing a very, very crucial detail here: FA was listed, along with Ank, as one of the two leader options last night. Scum decided to kill one of those and presumably could only kill one of those. Both FA and Ank would have 2 powers, equal chance of having BP etc (ignoring the idea that Ank crumbed use of medium). So it's not unreasonable to assume scum used power negation to ensure the kill went through.

If that's true (and I think it's the most likely option, but by no means guaranteed), they decided it was better to leave FA alive than Ank as leader. That tells me they cared enough about the leader to kill one of the options, and they preferred FA to Ank.

a- they didn't have power negation
b- they didn't want to use it
c- they thought ank might be using another ability not bp or the phasing so she would be a safe kill
d- they just wanted her dead more than me cause she had a great read on someone somewhere and I'm just useless in comparision.

If my townreads are wrong help me with them instead of calling me a bad leader. I also have a list that I must submit today.

[Frozen Angel]

oh yeah that reminds me

going to reiterate this every day until this day phase ends

fa should not pick anyone for the superhero team tonight with these shit powers on board

because man those powers largely suck in terms of town utility vs scum utility (outside of healing touch and arguably impenetrable skin) and im pretty sure fa will put scum in her team

at most it should be a relatively small team (2, at most 3) so that any shitty power picks become more obvious

I was thinking about picking some trustable players who will heal other players or bp themself so we see if scum puts itself with a possible power negation use or will go elsewhere

[Frozen Angel]

Yeah, as you eliminate the impossible, only the truth remains.

Exactly.

So FA being scum is possible.

Literally anyone barring myself could be.

But instead we are talking mechanics.
Because people are blatantly basing reads on them which is wrong.

Shiro is town because talking with Cerb. << That is not a valid reason
Titus is town because Math confirmed she took precog. << Not a thing

Like if your reads has “X is town because doing Y is stupid/smart or Z is scum because scum would”

For the love of all that is townie throw that away and look at the play.

It's not! It's really really not! Like you should get a calculator and try doing a 2+2 here. I chose both cerb and ank for night 1. They could both have phasing. they could both have bp. yet you're saying a scum me shot cerb knowing that night I might fail in killing him!

If I'm town no one but me knew cerb was chosen.

Scum me would never take this risk of giving power to the person we were killing to redirect the kill to one of my hypothetical scum mates. Unless if you argue scum me had power negation to use night 1!

Also, me taking no action night 1 is confirmed by cerb. Are you questioning my claim that phasing was the best ability I could pick there? So yes I can be scum. but that theory has like 2% chance/validity at this point.

[Frozen Angel]

Ok you know what? Ignore me and push me for mislycnh in lylo/later in game, My alignment simply doesn't matter for today tonight yes? I will be available for death starting tomorrow alright? We can simply have this discussions about me tomorrow - forward

let me focus on what I must do as leader today and to think about who I want lynched instead of this useless crap.

[Frozen Angel]

You all are also saying that you think I should be relooked later in game so lets just do that and stop talking about me when so many other slots are around that you can sort.

[Frozen Angel]

stungun0404 I think Katsuki is purposefully active lurking and if I wanted to push someone for low content I would go after them before anyone else. I'm still not sure if it's the right approach.

@the worst explain how you think and why you make your votes. I want to know the reasons behind your branching

@everyone I need a list of 5 townreads from each one of you.

[Frozen Angel]

@frozen angel,

my heaviest townreads are sando, zmuffinman, nancy drew, sakura hana, creature, and gamma emerald in that order.

explain the ones on zmuffin, sakura and gamma

[Frozen Angel]

@everyone I need a list of 5 townreads from each one of you.

Well i can give you all my TRs:
FA, Nancy, Titus, Drixx, Shiro, muffin, Creature, Tora*

*: Only TRing coz you guys say this is his towngame or something.

talk about your titus and muffin and the hebi tr

[Frozen Angel]

that all was @all people who are talking about how I can be scum even when all stuff is pointing at it being ridiculous.

[Frozen Angel]

Sando you didn't say why you think I'm wrong about ank?

also talk about my townreads and your townreads as I need it for tonight powers

what do you think about what muffin is saying? I prefer if we could heal slots that actually need that like math and shiro so shiro can medium ank and to see if scum will power negate it or not. I can actually heal one of the two tonight as I'm immortal this night

[Frozen Angel]

You all are also saying that you think I should be relooked later in game so lets just do that and stop talking about me when so many other slots are around that you can sort.

You're getting upset at me saying that I don't think you should be D5 leader and that I would only consider you lynchable in the event of a Shiro-non-medium reveal (I don't even know how we'd find this out). Dunno where this hyperbole is coming from.

That was not @you it was @mathblade shiro the worst and cerb

But on other notice this is not the correct time to discuss day 5 leader. If you have concerns about my perspective on game and my townreads you should discuss that instead cause I'm the leader today and I'm about to make a decision about the party tonight

[Frozen Angel]

I dont think healing prevents power negate, but I guess I should ask the mod just in case.

healing if its used in day will bypass power negate cause its a day action and could not be stoped by power negate by healing at night use can be stopped by it.

It will still act like that bp on shiro and mathblade tonight who can't use bp or need one so we can deduce if scum are using power negate when killing them or not if they decide to eliminate them at very list. optimally they don't have power negate so we just remove their chances in killing shiro and math by doing that

if this makes sense. I think it's best option we have right now.

[Frozen Angel]

What about being attention splashy in rvs is towny? You think scum would act shy?