A Story Revisited (Anything uPick): Day 6

[jjh927]

Sky, I think the motivation behind it as scum is that she didn't realise her role had any potential for impact on the game until I pointed it out, at which point she would be locked into using it like that because not doing so would make her obvious scum.

[jjh927]

Try to remember that Mastina is hated, Nico is a triple voter, and votecounts are sparse

[jjh927]

(stop voting Mastina)

[jjh927]

Yo NicoRobin, is Mastina faking the trigger condition for her gladiate ability

[jjh927]

Damn where'd those quick replies go

[jjh927]

VOTE: Mastina

I honestly do not think this is a town role and I feel that my role is diametrically opposed to it.

I could say the same about your role

[jjh927]

VOTE: Mastina

I honestly do not think this is a town role and I feel that my role is diametrically opposed to it.

I could say the same about your role

Actually I will

Varsoon, how the fuck is your role pro-town outside of using it to break up gladiates? (the thing you explicitly didn't do and are now looking at never being able to do.) Surprise hammers coming out of left field with no time to claim aren't protown. Furthermore, I believe yours is another role that mine would prevent the use of, because MY STAND『ZA WARUDO』HAS THE POWER TO RULE THE WORLD

[jjh927]

I also think Mastina wouldn't go around gladiating whoever the town wants to gladiate as scum, since disloyal scum gladiator and loyal town gladiator both produce the exact same results. Meaning she's still willingly giving us townclears, which seems really anti-wincon. Possible towncred isn't happening, clearly, since half the game still wants to lynch her anyways.

Mastina definitely seems like the more reasonable one between her and nico, and if she gladiates Nico, this is what I see happening:

- Scum Disloyal Mastina or Town Loyal Mastina gladiating town Nico would activate the gladiate, in which case we no lynch or use Varsoon's ability to redo it.
- Scum Disloyal Mastina or Town Loyal Mastina gladiating scum Nico would have the gladiate fail, in which case regardless of Mastina's alignment Nico is scum.

So regardless of Mastina's alignment, we can safely gladiate Nico today and there's a 50% chance we get a scum out of it.

Wrong.

NicoRobin has said that Mastina is disloyal, and Mastina claimed loyal, therefore if Nico is town then Mastina is scum.

Mastina has to publicly activate the gladiate and as such cannot fake activating it.

[jjh927]

I literally brought up my role WHEN WE HAD A GLADIATE and people told me NOT TO USE IT.
If you forgot, I replaced in late D2.

Don't ask me to try to decipher this setup, homedawg. I have no clue what my role's intended interactions are. That's why I fucking public claimed it, dawg. If I was scum, I'd have just held on to it for a free surprise hammer lynch late into the game.

Yeah that's a fair point


I can stop time and lock people's votes onto whoever they were voting at the time and only people who aren't voting can change votes.

[jjh927]

Oh yeah also I've got this whole deathproof thing going on but I'm confident I got shot last night so next time I guess I'll just be a head

[jjh927]

Mastina CLAIMED to have to publically activate it. That could have been a lie. And, in fact, if she’s scum that’s the only reasoning I see for playing the way she has outside of trying to get a godfather clear on a buddy.

Yo NicoRobin, is Mastina faking the trigger condition for her gladiate ability

Nico stopped posting after I asked this

[jjh927]

Yeah they sure are that's why I'm not using mine

[jjh927]

Oh also even though I've basically fullclaimed now I'm still gonna use all jjba reaction images and not just the ones relating to my pick

[jjh927]

woah my claim was low power and potentially useful for this clusterfuck of voting related day abilities

[jjh927]

The real power is in the bit that is almost certainly gone after the night with no kill when I was hard baiting scum!Nico

[jjh927]

Oh okay that wasn't a jab mb

[jjh927]

Hooray she answered

[jjh927]

There you go, Jingle. You're sane enough to understand why this solves that problem

[jjh927]

She'll have got the whole role PM because that's how well designed rolecops in theme games work

[jjh927]

She literally wouldn't be lynched as town lmao

[jjh927]

I've taken to ignoring most of what she says now because it's strawman levels of easy to argue against it and then her counterarguments are the same and it just goes on and on and on

[jjh927]

Mastina shouldn’t gladiator nico unless we’re already going to lynch nico. If we choose to have her gladiate while she is the lynch target, she targets not nico so we still get a conftown if nico is faking the guilty. Additionally, if mastina flips disloyal, nico is p town based on use of role and thus a bad cop target anyway. If we’re lynching nico, sure, mastina gladiators there.

Again: what motivation does mastina have to give any more clears as scum? With Ari it was clearly an oversight, but yours looks like misleading.
And btw this is a to everyone that you should probably be eyeing Jingle after mastina flips scum.

You have it the wrong way around

His proposed strat is proscum for scum!Nico, and null for scum!Mastina

[jjh927]

Also Jingle, I've poked the hole in your plan and Nico took the option which didn't essentially confscum her again. What now?

[jjh927]

No I was talking about you there

[jjh927]

It is physically impossible for you to be lynched as town here because Mastina will attempt to gladiate you and if she refuses then we lynch her

[jjh927]

So you freaking out and talking about how you will flip town is concerning when that is an impossible scenario and there is no reason for you to be freaking out if you are not scum

[jjh927]

I’m still waiting for a response, and will respond when I stop having reasons not to.

Response to what?

[jjh927]

Jfc why is that your go-to

[jjh927]

Scum no killing on purpose is dumber than the one where they kill me to frame you and not just because I'm obvtown

[jjh927]

p-edit: So you plan to lynch her if she refuses or gladiates someone else?

Yes, obviously

[jjh927]

She must do because I've pointed it out like 50 times but she's panicked scum

[jjh927]

This is par for the course for NicoRobin

[jjh927]

Oh hey it's scum!Jingle coaching scum!NicoRobin into not backing herself more into the corner

[jjh927]

Tinfoil mechanics theory, however, says that NicoRobin's ability failed on Porkens but Porkens reflected it back and rolecopped NicoRobin, and if I am correct and Porkens received a full role PM I would like him to claim this

[jjh927]

Tinfoil mechanics theory, however, says that NicoRobin's ability failed on Porkens but Porkens reflected it back and rolecopped NicoRobin, and if I am correct and Porkens received a full role PM I would like him to claim this

Said by someone who doesn't believe my results on mastina are real.

I think you're a rolecop just not a town one

[jjh927]

Belay that Porkens, we might be able to solve this without you claiming. 2IRL days at most.

Only needs to claim if my tinfoil mechanics are correct and he essentially has a guilty

[jjh927]

Nico to my question you prematurely answered for her.
Mastina in general.
And the percentage of claimed/semi claimed players.

All of these are important.

Dunno what the question was but it sounds like it was probably answered

Waiting for Mastina in general is cool but shouldn't cause you any issues wrt strategy optimisation


1)

Spoiler: The MEME Men

I'm a double voter town with one shot investigation ability of some sort who will win gladiates if a gladiator targets us. I just had a crisis in life and had to flake and whenever I was online on ms this thread was locked.

I will need till night to catch up and read stuff about this game and to try to communicate with my hydra partner. If I can't get that to work I will replace out

~Sora

2) Northsidegal
3)

Spoiler: Firebringer

wait my role gives guns not allows me to shoot...

u troll rc.

I will give a gun to whoever promises to shoot gamma if he isn't lynched.

4)

Spoiler: Nicorobin

p-edit: Rolecop and triplevoter.

5)

Spoiler: Mastina

I was expecting a troll role when I submitted my picks, and hoh boy did RC not disappoint.

I am Ginngie, Hated Loyal Gladiator

.
Outside of lylo/mylo (which is purely by the numbers, per the role wording), I take one less vote to lynch.
I can gladiate anyone by claiming a guilty on them, but if they're not town-aligned, it'll fail.

I can maybe, MAYBE use this as a conditional cop, IF we can no-lynch after a gladiate (I need to ask RC about this), but if not, yeahhhhh...

6) Gamma Emerald
7)

Spoiler: Chickadee

I'm a video vendor. I can vend any time.

8) Skygazer
9)

Spoiler: Varsoon

Jury's still out on how my role would interact with other vote-related powers but yeah
Everyone gets to cast a vote via PM and it's not revealed who voted who.

10)

Spoiler: KuroiXHF

I'll die, but I'll come back. And I won't flip.

BTW, I can post at night. I am alive, but not the same as everyone else.

11) Invisibility
12) Porkens
13) Whemestar
14)

Spoiler: Vecna

Alright here goes. Im sort of waiting for someone to pop their head in, but explaining stuff wont hurt (or maybe it will, but itll all be alright). Also on mobile and not at home so this may go in pieces.

JJH was on the right track, but he was asking completely the wrong questions.

My post restriction day1 was optional. The original restriction was that I could only state I am cornholio and that i need tp for my bunghole. I was cheeky and asked RC if I could also use the other cornholio quotes to make it less bland. he hesitantly agreed. I could not vote day1 without ruining the restriction. The reason I did not want to continue too much with the answering questions was that I felt it was not in line with the spirit of the role design, and RC had already given me more leeway in what I could do. I felt if I continued it might result in me failing the clause and it being for nothing. Besides that, asking someone with a PR to provide rainbow reads in his formatting somehow, while hardly anyone else is asked such a thing was complete bullcrap. Thats why instead you got rainbow trolling.

The only reason jjh was on my case was because he thought my quotes had ran out. If you just wouldve asked if my pr would last past day1 as a followup, all that nonsense wouldve been prevented. Regardless, I got run up. It is what it is. I claimed IC as an easy way out to at least be able to defend myself today. I judged that if I suddenly started talking normally I definately wouldve been the lynch.

Needless to say I do not have a literal IC role. Its similair'ish but nowhere near as definitive.

My role has three parts:
-I can visit someone at night and harass them. It will be revealed to them that I am beavis, village idiot.
-If anyone visits my house at night, they will hear the music that I am listening too (can choose a song each night).
-If I survive day1 while fullfilling my posting restriction, one of those abilities gets upgraded. Im not revealing what it is, and if any town finds out, please keep it quiet - unless I ask you otherwise.

More later

15) Lady Angel
18) Jingle
19) Nero Cain
20) Creature
21)

Spoiler: jjh927

Yo I'm deathproof and I can freeze people's votes in place

22) Aristophanes



Did I miss anyone

[jjh927]

Tinfoil mechanics theory, however, says that NicoRobin's ability failed on Porkens but Porkens reflected it back and rolecopped NicoRobin, and if I am correct and Porkens received a full role PM I would like him to claim this

Said by someone who doesn't believe my results on mastina are real.

I think you're a rolecop just not a town one

Okay, I'll pretend you are town for a second.

So, if mastina is scum, you'll let her endgame you because she can provide clears?

No I'll lynch her if she either succeeds in gladiating you or refuses to try

[jjh927]

SO YEAH BACK TO STRATEGY OPTIMISATION JINGLE

Since the only meaningful difference that your strat provides is that if Mastina is town, we don't lynch scum right away and instead get a conftown while saving scum the trouble of killing Mastina (which they would definitely have to do), WHY is it +EV?

We're comparing
Mislynch mastina, get a conftown, NK, scum lynch
or
Mislynch mastina, get a guilty, NK, scum lynch

to
scum lynch, Mastina gets NKed, ???

In the first condition of your strat, scum will target a conftown or obvtown anyway, meaning we net 0 conftowns.
And in the second condition where we get a guilty, it's on someone we would have agreed was the scummiest person. So, in other words, they're the most likely to get lynched anyway.

Your proposed strategy is A. Shit and B. Pro-scum if NicoRobin is scum

[jjh927]

2/3 of the potential people could still be it. Good enough.

We have a loud doc. I was targeted last night.

Funny doc choice

I can't see you getting nightkilled

[jjh927]

Regardless of Mastina's alignment, there are 2 conftowns that scum have to deal with at some point. Then there's me and Creature blatantly playing our town metas.

[jjh927]

That said I did here that Creature actually played a scumgame with his town meta this one time

[jjh927]

Agreed, but the knowledge that a doc exists is very useful for town to have.

I mean, it also gives yet another reason why you as scum would want to put the game in a position where mastina could be lynched

[jjh927]

That said I did hear that Creature actually played a scumgame with his town meta this one time

jfc what was that typo doing well I've fixed it in pedit

[jjh927]

There was no reason to claim that

oof

[jjh927]

SO YEAH BACK TO STRATEGY OPTIMISATION JINGLE

Since the only meaningful difference that your strat provides is that if Mastina is town, we don't lynch scum right away and instead get a conftown while saving scum the trouble of killing Mastina (which they would definitely have to do), WHY is it +EV?

We're comparing
Mislynch mastina, get a conftown, NK, scum lynch
or
Mislynch mastina, get a guilty, NK, scum lynch

to
scum lynch, Mastina gets NKed, ???

In the first condition of your strat, scum will target a conftown or obvtown anyway, meaning we net 0 conftowns.
And in the second condition where we get a guilty, it's on someone we would have agreed was the scummiest person. So, in other words, they're the most likely to get lynched anyway.

Your proposed strategy is A. Shit and B. Pro-scum if NicoRobin is scum

Why do all of these say 'mislynch' mastina?

Where are the scenarios where she is scum?!

Adults are talking



If you could follow the conversation you would understand that I am talking about the differences between our strategies, and the scenarios where Mastina is scum are identical in our strategies

[jjh927]

She'll have got the whole role PM because that's how well designed rolecops in theme games work

This is the variant, not the normal version of the role.

If NR had committed to the variant then your plan would have been better. If she would have committed to the normal version of the role without it being made into a big deal before hand, we would have had slight evidence that she was the normal version of the role. As it is, your answering for her tainted my line of questioning. Thanks. The inconsistency in which role she has from her is in face scummy, though, so I'll give you that.

Okay, next post is strategy optimazation posted from a computer and thus formatting should be easier.

This isn't a normal game.

Well designed rolecops in theme games get the full role PM because otherwise you have to ask "What does X mean"

[jjh927]

Like, let's say you rolecop me and wtf is a vote paralyzer

[jjh927]

Also how is the deathproof modified

etc

[jjh927]

Your plan only has any merit if you're paranoid about Mastina having faked the gladiate trigger

[jjh927]

The SOLE reason to vote Mastina now and get her to target someone that isn't NicoRobin is if you scumread her so much that you believe she faked the gladiate trigger

[jjh927]

and it doesn't actually help for that condition; it's only better for the one in which you are wrong about that

[jjh927]

jfc okay that actually helps the whole day/night divide that caused my tinfoil theory

[jjh927]

Also wtf she's blatantly scum I can give you like a stupid number of reasons backed up by rigorous meta in spite of the fact that she flakes out of a bunch of games

[jjh927]

She will get proven as scum anyway if she refuses to gladiate me.

The hell kind of response to Mastina calling your guilty faked is this

Please corroborate if you did indeed lie and then you get to explain why

[jjh927]

I've played with her as both alignments

There's some jarring differences

[jjh927]

She will get proven as scum anyway if she refuses to gladiate me.

The hell kind of response to Mastina calling your guilty faked is this

Please corroborate if you did indeed lie and then you get to explain why

Yes, I lied.

It was for reaction test which both you and Jingle failed. You kept parroting how she was town and never considered the possibility that she could be scum, not even once. Any rational town would at least consider that possibility too.

jesus christ how are you this blind

[jjh927]

I've played with her as both alignments

There's some jarring differences

Well, she can manipulate her playstyle to make you think she is town even she is not.

Also, didn't you tr her on role alone?

And yet suddenly, you are talking about how you read her on playstyle as well, which kinda contradicts everything you have said up till now.

This was about you again

[jjh927]

I am literally being called scum by two different people, one because my plan is designed around too many interaction possibilities and the other because I'm not considering 50% of those too many possibilities.

On a scale from one to even, I just can't.

I don't actually think you're scum

[jjh927]

Not right now anyway

[jjh927]

Was pretty tinfoily and preflippy and tbh if you were coaching Nico into the fake guilty there's no way she'd have done this

[jjh927]

Yeah well presumably we're gonna have it out and reach a conclusion

[jjh927]

No but your extremely malleable psychological state does

[jjh927]

I'm not gonna case you just yet but I know it worries you that I will


How have you been framed? Please elaborate

[jjh927]

Pretty sure you literally just faked a guilty on Mastina btw

[jjh927]

I'll give you a "Faked a guilty to try and get people to jump on a wagon before she gets the chance to gladiate on the off-chance people forget she's hated"

[jjh927]

If scum wanted you dead that much they'd just shoot you

[jjh927]

Wait and how do scum know I'm deathproof in scenario 2

[jjh927]

JJ, why does scum nico do literally anything she's done today?

I was answering that lmao

[jjh927]

Okay, so in scenario 1, how does you faking a guilty end up in my plan?

[jjh927]

Also why have you given up on the scenario where I'm actually deathproof and scum shot me to frame you even though keeping me alive would make more sense when I have expressed that I am going to be pushing the shit out of you and traditionally nobody cares about dead people's reads

[jjh927]

No I think NR is actually just bad at the game

You can be bad at the game while being scum

[jjh927]

VOTE: mastina

VOTE: mastina

p-edit: I told you my results. If you have something else in mind, please tell me what, because I am drawing a blank regarding what more you could possibly want......

VOTE: mastina

VOTE: invisbiiltit frick I mean mastina
knew we should have killed nico

VOTE: mastina

hi nsg, how r u

VOTE: Mastina

I honestly do not think this is a town role and I feel that my role is diametrically opposed to it.

Don't tell me it wasn't possible

[jjh927]

Like, do you not understand the logic of "bad enough to fakeclaim a guilty that is easily caught as scum means also bad enough to fakeclaim a guilty that is easily caught as town?"

Yes but I don't believe the motivation to fake the guilty and have provided a potential scum motivation for it

[jjh927]

No I think NR is actually just bad at the game

You can be bad at the game while being scum

Mini Theme 1936.

Not ecologically valid

[jjh927]

I also still think her rolecop would give her the full PM because again, this is a theme game

[jjh927]

Oh I know it's counterproductive it's just there's an extent to which I feel obligated to respond to her I guess?

I will get to casing her if it would be beneficial at some point, just not today

[jjh927]

Also I appreciate being given games she actually played out properly because it gives me more to test my theories on the meta angle without having to trawl through a load of games and see if she actually posted in them

[jjh927]

That legitimately sounds like a perfect game to trial the meta shit on

I'm not looking macro here

[jjh927]

No I think NR is actually just bad at the game

You can be bad at the game while being scum

Mini Theme 1936.

Not ecologically valid

Why isn't it valid?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecological_validity

[jjh927]

Um, NR, who is your alt in that game?

I got 4 pages in before realizing you weren't on the player list.

She's Yume, the player the game was built around. The playerlist was assembled specifically out of people who were not only willing to play with Yume, but would also have been on board with the core concept of basically being a showcase for Yume actually playing the game. Thus, a playerlist who would be less inclined to lynch or kill her than average that in turn would be even further dissuaded from lynching or killing her and a game designed around her preferences as a player make for EXTREMELY poor ecological validity as an actual representation of her abilities as a player.

[jjh927]

Scum no killing on purpose is dumber than the one where they kill me to frame you and not just because I'm obvtown

Why do you assume you were their prime target?

Because I know how to get nightkilled, I'm deathproof, and there was a no kill

[jjh927]

Also, as a player, I have magical powers that prevent Yume from killing me in RC upicks

[jjh927]

Creature stop spamming I want people to see this I swear it's funny

Also, as a player, I have magical powers that prevent Yume from killing me in RC upicks

[jjh927]

I know

[jjh927]

I mean she objectively did fake the guilty and admitted it

[jjh927]

It's a really bad way of describing his strat


What he really means is that he's paranoid that Mastina fakeclaimed the trigger for the gladiate, and is notionally willing to play sub-optimally just in case she did

[jjh927]

She will get proven as scum anyway if she refuses to gladiate me.

The hell kind of response to Mastina calling your guilty faked is this

Please corroborate if you did indeed lie and then you get to explain why

Yes, I lied.

It was for reaction test which both you and Jingle failed. You kept parroting how she was town and never considered the possibility that she could be scum, not even once. Any rational town would at least consider that possibility too.

[jjh927]

She has yet to get her actual rolecop result because it's a day ability.

So Nico is lying, and Porkens can back me up here.

I was told, "Nico is demanding your role; you have 48 hours to comply, or she becomes a triple voter for you."

She CAN'T have a result yet. I've allowed it, so she will get one, but she doesn't have one RIGHT NOW.

I'm not voting her though, because I am 100% positive she's just town fakeclaiming. This is PRECISELY the kind of stunt she'd pull.

Also, pizza is delicious.

[jjh927]

Why do you think NSG is scum rn

[jjh927]

I'm self-awarely reflexively townreading her though

[jjh927]

I thought her predecessor was town anyway

[jjh927]

notionally willing to play sub-optimally just in case she did

"willing to play sub optimally" here means "willing to play around legitimate scum strategies."

You say legitimate scum strategies, I say vastly unlikely singular scum strategy that doesn't mesh with the other shit
That said our actions will definitely hinge on whatever NR's actual claimed result is

[jjh927]

It's the "Mastina is chosen as lynch target" step that is bad, because it's choosing to lynch her before she gladiates.

We're still in hypotheticals till NR gets the rolecop result though

[jjh927]

I have 14 some odd pages to catch up on. What's the vote count on Mastina?

Summary:

NR faked the guilty and will get actual results in 48 hours (or possibly less- not sure if the way it was described means that NR will get it whenever RC gets around to it instead).
Bla bla bla me and Jingle talk mechanics
Now wait around till NR gets the actual result back and then either claims a guilty or corroborates Mastina being loyal

Feel free to give reads on NicoRobin, Mastina, or anyone else in the game. Nobody's going anywhere

[jjh927]

This is a personal hell of mine
Why are we letting this game be held hostage by two players?

It's really just NR tbh, and it's not a thing any more because the guilty isn't there


I think we should be discussing what happens if she corroborates Mastina's roleclaim

[jjh927]

Nico to my question you prematurely answered for her.
Mastina in general.
And the percentage of claimed/semi claimed players.

All of these are important.

Dunno what the question was but it sounds like it was probably answered

Waiting for Mastina in general is cool but shouldn't cause you any issues wrt strategy optimisation


1)

Spoiler: The MEME Men

I'm a double voter town with one shot investigation ability of some sort who will win gladiates if a gladiator targets us. I just had a crisis in life and had to flake and whenever I was online on ms this thread was locked.

I will need till night to catch up and read stuff about this game and to try to communicate with my hydra partner. If I can't get that to work I will replace out

~Sora

2) Northsidegal
3)

Spoiler: Firebringer

wait my role gives guns not allows me to shoot...

u troll rc.

I will give a gun to whoever promises to shoot gamma if he isn't lynched.

4)

Spoiler: Nicorobin

p-edit: Rolecop and triplevoter.

5)

Spoiler: Mastina

I was expecting a troll role when I submitted my picks, and hoh boy did RC not disappoint.

I am Ginngie, Hated Loyal Gladiator

.
Outside of lylo/mylo (which is purely by the numbers, per the role wording), I take one less vote to lynch.
I can gladiate anyone by claiming a guilty on them, but if they're not town-aligned, it'll fail.

I can maybe, MAYBE use this as a conditional cop, IF we can no-lynch after a gladiate (I need to ask RC about this), but if not, yeahhhhh...

6) Gamma Emerald
7)

Spoiler: Chickadee

I'm a video vendor. I can vend any time.

8) Skygazer
9)

Spoiler: Varsoon

Jury's still out on how my role would interact with other vote-related powers but yeah
Everyone gets to cast a vote via PM and it's not revealed who voted who.

10)

Spoiler: KuroiXHF

I'll die, but I'll come back. And I won't flip.

BTW, I can post at night. I am alive, but not the same as everyone else.

11) Invisibility
12) Porkens
13) Whemestar
14)

Spoiler: Vecna

Alright here goes. Im sort of waiting for someone to pop their head in, but explaining stuff wont hurt (or maybe it will, but itll all be alright). Also on mobile and not at home so this may go in pieces.

JJH was on the right track, but he was asking completely the wrong questions.

My post restriction day1 was optional. The original restriction was that I could only state I am cornholio and that i need tp for my bunghole. I was cheeky and asked RC if I could also use the other cornholio quotes to make it less bland. he hesitantly agreed. I could not vote day1 without ruining the restriction. The reason I did not want to continue too much with the answering questions was that I felt it was not in line with the spirit of the role design, and RC had already given me more leeway in what I could do. I felt if I continued it might result in me failing the clause and it being for nothing. Besides that, asking someone with a PR to provide rainbow reads in his formatting somehow, while hardly anyone else is asked such a thing was complete bullcrap. Thats why instead you got rainbow trolling.

The only reason jjh was on my case was because he thought my quotes had ran out. If you just wouldve asked if my pr would last past day1 as a followup, all that nonsense wouldve been prevented. Regardless, I got run up. It is what it is. I claimed IC as an easy way out to at least be able to defend myself today. I judged that if I suddenly started talking normally I definately wouldve been the lynch.

Needless to say I do not have a literal IC role. Its similair'ish but nowhere near as definitive.

My role has three parts:
-I can visit someone at night and harass them. It will be revealed to them that I am beavis, village idiot.
-If anyone visits my house at night, they will hear the music that I am listening too (can choose a song each night).
-If I survive day1 while fullfilling my posting restriction, one of those abilities gets upgraded. Im not revealing what it is, and if any town finds out, please keep it quiet - unless I ask you otherwise.

More later

15) Lady Angel
18) Jingle
19) Nero Cain
20) Creature
21)

Spoiler: jjh927

Yo I'm deathproof and I can freeze people's votes in place

22) Aristophanes



Did I miss anyone

This might be helpful too

[jjh927]

Should we start planning out what to do for each result Nico could come back with?

If NicoRobin has a guilty, me and Jingle will probably come to some kind of agreement with regards to the best mechanical way of resolving it depending on the specifics and all you have to do is follow that best mechanical way


If NicoRobin does not have a guilty, we get to discuss who we want to lynch. Personally, I would push for a NicoRobin lynch in that situation

[jjh927]

@somebody voting mastina: Unvote so Nico can't turbo her if Mastina gives her a triplevote.

Mastina has said she's not giving her the triplevote, and also if she did it would be a scumclaim anyway

[jjh927]

If NicoRobin has a guilty, me and Jingle will probably come to some kind of agreement with regards to the best mechanical way of resolving it depending on the specifics and all you have to do is follow that best mechanical way

If nicorobin has a guilty then you lynch Mastina period. There's not a need to discuss that

Go back to the hole you crawled out of

[jjh927]

If NicoRobin has a rolecop guilty, then depending on the specifics of it Mastina attempting a gladiate can resolve it, guaranteeing that we lynch scum regardless of whether or not the guilty is fake


Pay attention to the game

[jjh927]

Pretty sure the sensible way for it to work is that she targets someone at night and then RC resolves the thing at the start of day

NR didn't actually triple vote Porkens at day start; she was "testing" but we didn't know shit at the time because RC's lack of VCs is having an adverse effect on the game.

[jjh927]

That might be me talking out of my ass though

[jjh927]

You just said both of us did

[jjh927]

Please explain wtf you're on about

[jjh927]

What are you claiming

[jjh927]

Okay, so unless you got a no result nobody messed with your results

Here's the deal- I'm gonna give you a moment to take your head out of your ass and consider what's going on. If, as I suspect has occurred, Mastina has returned as being exactly what she claimed, admit that you are wrong and move on with the game

[jjh927]

Why was it one of us

[jjh927]

Also I'm still voting you and will now proceed to push your lynch


Especially since this is an extremely theatrical way of saying you got no result

[jjh927]

It's funny because for people to believe this is actually your townplay, NR, they must have lower opinions of your skill than I do

[jjh927]

It's funny because for people to believe this is actually your townplay, NR, they must have lower opinions of your skill than I do

You do you, I do me.

Oh, and by the way, the no result was a tracker result, meaning that mastina is innocent.

You two are probably still scum trying to buddy her or something.

???

[jjh927]

Could you be a bit more helpful and actually explain what you got

[jjh927]

You were expecting a rolecop result. We know that.

Please tell us unambiguously exactly what you got so we don't have to fill in any gaps

[jjh927]

Then what the shit was that about a tracker result

[jjh927]

[jjh927]

Did you think you were a rolecop when you were actually a tracker or some shit?

[jjh927]

Wow Varsoon did you just imply that Josuke's hair looks like a cat

[jjh927]

Regardless, Mastina somehow being untargetable fits by far the best with the result that Nico is dodgily claiming and my result. It also is by far the most likely explanation of what happened with the missing kill.

A jailkeeper really fits terribly with Jingle's claim though, unless either of them is scum. A scum jailkeeper targeting mastina to prevent Nico's pre-announced rolecop could be a thing I guess, but that coinciding with no nightkill would be pretty coincidental.

Would be a forced commute, not a jailkeep. Jailkeep only roleblocks. Unless there's some rolestopper nonsense in there.

Also, it's definitely not the most likely explanation of the missing kill. As I said, I baited really hard and I'm pretty much unlynchable here unless people are immensely dumb

[jjh927]

Porkens rejected the thing and so NR got the triple vote

[jjh927]

If mastina had gone "No, I don't want you to look at my role that I have already claimed publicly" then it would be a scumclaim

[jjh927]

But yeah, Vecna. Honestly, I'm convinced I was the NK because I was going into night actually expecting a no-kill because of the combination of how hard I'd baited NR, how much I scumread her, and the kind of person she is

[jjh927]

@JJH: Is it possible any other configuration of scum in this setup would've noticed that and tried to kill you in order to implicate Nico?

No, because they wouldn't have known I was deathproof and if they wanted to implicate NicoRobin, the best way to do that is to leave the guy deathtunneling her alive

[jjh927]

I mean, I want to run NicoRobin up and force mastina to do the thing even though she thinks NR is town for some reason

[jjh927]

Wouldn't it look worse if the guy who was deathtunneling her died?

Also, I don't think it would? Most people don't pay that much attention to the dead and the arguments normally get shrugged off by calling wifom

[jjh927]

I think she's a rolecop but she's trying as much nonsense as possible so that people go "She wouldn't do this as scum"

[jjh927]

Oh hey it's just occurred to me that Nico submits her action at night and Mastina got the thing which means she can't have been blocked in any way

[jjh927]

Right so you're a tracker who finds out what the target did the night before if they agree to reveal their role to you and you thought you were a rolecop before and now you're claiming you got a no result which is distinctly different from a "Your target did not visit anyone" but you think Mastina is innocent because of it

[jjh927]

I swear to god

THAT is your takeaway from that? Respond to Chickadee.

[jjh927]

Respond to Chickadee or my narrative is the best approximation of your role we have

[jjh927]

Yeah okay but you can still respond to Chickadee

[jjh927]

Remember when I had to ask you to do this like 6 times in Spring Fever and you were scum

[jjh927]

The hell is the flavour on that

[jjh927]

Don't say Nico Robin again I mean how does RC justify the abilities from the character because I don't see it

[jjh927]

Can you clarify that it was "no result" that you got on Mastina as opposed to "Mastina did not visit anyone"

[jjh927]

So Nico is lying, and Porkens can back me up here.

I was told, "Nico is demanding your role; you have 48 hours to comply, or she becomes a triple voter for you."

She CAN'T have a result yet. I've allowed it, so she will get one, but she doesn't have one RIGHT NOW.

I'm not voting her though, because I am 100% positive she's just town fakeclaiming. This is PRECISELY the kind of stunt she'd pull.

Also, pizza is delicious.

[jjh927]

Let's also take into account that anyone who can read will understand that "conditional triple voter conditional tracker/watcher" looks different to "conditional triple voter conditional rolecop", and this was the first we'd heard about watcher shit

[jjh927]

But yeah I kinda want to hear it from Porkens over Mastina rn so we have another source

[jjh927]

I think she's a rolecop but she's trying as much nonsense as possible so that people go "She wouldn't do this as scum"

[jjh927]

Jailkeep only roleblocks.

Factually Incorrect.

Jailkeep prevents all actions taken by or targeting the target.

Mastina specifically wasn't Jailkept.

Also, pizza is delicious.

Don't tell me I'm wrong when I'm right

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Jailkeeper

You are talking about a variant of a different name I didn't know about though

[jjh927]

But yeah, if we're believing that NicoRobin got a no result, then someone day roleblocked NicoRobin. And if someone had the ability to do day roleblocks then why wouldn't they have done so on Mastina at the first opportunity

[jjh927]

I refused and got triple voted

What message did you get from RC detailing what the thing was

[jjh927]

He clearly doesn't want to reveal either to you or to anyone and a triple vote is not that bad

[jjh927]

He didn't really freak though

Your role bullies people
Alisae would never have okayed this if e was reviewing as I believe was the original plan

[jjh927]

Wtf did e give up on the whole no bullying thing

[jjh927]

Also

19) This setup was, uh, not actually reviewed by anyone but me. I feel fairly confident in the quality of the game though.

[jjh927]

I don't think his answers are gonna be any different from mine, else absent entirely.

[jjh927]

Sigh. My death will not be instructive.

This one at most

[jjh927]

Wow Varsoon did you just imply that Josuke's hair looks like a cat

Look veeeeery closely at Varsoon’s avatar

That was the joke and I kept it going

[jjh927]

It's jjh/Jingle/Porkens/mastina scumteam.

Didn't you notice how whenever I try to pressure Porkens and/or mastina, jjh is always there to defend them in some way?

I wonder why that is?

Gee I don't know

[jjh927]

[jjh927]

Does the message you got line up with NicoRobin not being a rolecop but a tracker/watcher instead?

Remember when I had to ask you to do this like 6 times in Spring Fever and you were scum

Well, you already decided I am scum, and I doubt anything would change your mind.

But whatever.

I am Nico Robin, conditional triple voter conditional tracker/watcher.

Each night I target a player and they have 48 hours to give me who they visited. If they don't, I gain a triple vote against them. I targeted Porkens N1 and mastina N2. My action on Porkens failed and I got no result on mastina.

Now go ahead, twist everything I said according to your narrative so that you can continue to scumread me with impunity. >.>

[jjh927]

[jjh927]

I haven't answered all your posts because some of them are pretty dumb and responding to them will just get me something else dumb

There's an extent to which I feel obligated to respond to you but for the most part I don't really care

[jjh927]

Which post was it?

[jjh927]

Oh do you mean the one where you accused me of exclusively doing something that I'm not doing, and asked about the case I might or might not actually make because I've actually got important shit to do this week

[jjh927]

I've answered questions for you before

Am I defending you

[jjh927]

What's the flavour for your different abilities called

[jjh927]

[jjh927]

We'll see about that.

What makes you think you could stop her from refusing?

This isn't One Piece. You can't just refuse someone's refusal.

[jjh927]

Kishibe Rohan trumps all refusals though

In seriousness we lynch Mastina if she refuses to follow the will of the town with her gladiate because she literally said she was gonna do that

[jjh927]

Pagetop gets meme

[jjh927]

VOTE: jjh
For the shitty meme

Screw you new meme formats are always great

[jjh927]

That's because if she refuses to gladiate you we will lynch her, making it an action that she would not do as either alignment

[jjh927]

hey jjh, what do you think of varsoon?

Not honestly sure. I'm willing to consider him after NicoRobin but I'm kinda leaning town and I think I need a scumflip before I can really place him

[jjh927]

Pretty sure it's still gonna be no result even though Mastina received the message and at least that part of the action worked.


Why has nobody acknowledged my meme post as good

[jjh927]

Could you ask again this time tomorrow when I'm procrastinating doing presentation stuff rather than now when I want to sleep

[jjh927]

Your analysis is faulty, and too simplistic. Its comparable to the standard creature read, where people are just being lazy and looking at activity level (although granted this goes further, but as I said, not 100% town indicative).

My explanation is faulty and simplistic, my reasoning is neither. I was phoneposting and trying my best to be succinct about it, so I couldn't fully unpack it. Nico can be active as scum, sure.

She can also be inactive as town, too! Heck, that's common enough where she's been replaced before even though her flaking is something which happens MORE OFTEN when she's scum.

But I didn't say she was town because she was posting.
I didn't say she was town because of the crazy.
I didn't say she was town for a death tunnel.
I said she was town because of the unique combination of all of them, and specifically how she interacted with ME.

If her interactions were with YOU, then they wouldn't be town.

But her interactions with ME are what make her town.

Player history is important, and I am telling you that my history with her, and her history with me, is such that when you overlap the two, there is a nigh-soulread dynamic.

Let's go back to Spring Fever. Scum!Yume is capable of gearing up her play specifically to be townread by one player. Credit where it is due.

I have never read NicoRobin wrong. Across all her accounts, in dozens of games, I have always had the correct read on her. What's more--she knows it, too. She knows I have had the correct read on her every game, and she thus expects it of me to be accurate. When she first started getting engaged in the game, it was with an OMGUS scumread on me, her main attacker...but based around a WELL-JUSTIFIED burden of proficiency argument that's

not

fallacious, that IS valid.

No. Why is this one-directional? Why would she incorrectly BOP you when she knows how you play? I don't want to trawl through every game you've played with Yume to find you're bullshitting again but I do think you believe this bullshit so it's whatever.

If you assume she is town, then you can also assume that me reading her as scum is a sign that I am scum. Of course, my read changed later on, when I had a better grounding in the game and she had provided content (her lack of content was the main contributing factor to said scumread), but her initial suspicion on me was from a place I can understand as totally reasonable.

Yeah okay that's my last point, except that you do admit that your read changes; you don't get to say you're never wrong in such a case.

NicoRobin also has the bad habit of, when getting a scumread, not letting it go. Yes, she can do that as scum as you note, but she also does it as town so it is not a scumtell. She is highly-omgusy as town, and has NUMEROUS past games which demonstrate this. I can highlight any number of her past games which show how she attacks the people who scumread her. Look at her Porkens stance and her stance on me and her stance on jjh and Jingle, and then compare them to, say, her stance on Wisdom and then OnTheMark in this game.

She is competent at manipulating her own meta like this. I mean, it's not hard because I think her town meta is fuck awful. But she can do it. That's why this happens in both towngames and scumgames.
[/quote]

That game also contains a tremendous example of Nico changing her claim multiple times. As town.

Check her "we're masons we're not masons we're masons we're not masons" talk there and you'll get what I mean quite quickly. She was all over the place, omgusy, emotional, irrational, and highly anti-town with the shenanigans.

And now you are personally looking at that as a way that NicoRobin can towntell, which is, in my honest opinion, her best trick. It's still that personalised meta manipulation. You are way too surface-level, macro-game.

I can read NicoRobin almost as well as I can read Ginngie. It is a borderline-soulread. Nico's attitude here is something where, for her to be scum, you have to go through a series of hoops.
"Okay, she CAN do that thing as scum.
Okay, she CAN do that different thing as scum.
Okay, she CAN do that third thing as scum.
And I think that she, as scum, is doing all of them."

I don't trust you on either, and it's partly because of your confidence there. It's also partly because I caught her as scum in a game when nobody else did, and I think it's BECAUSE I was the only one with no expectations of her. I'm gonna keep saying this; she IS capable of manipulating her town meta, and you're a total fool to be using meta solely to place her. That you townread her because of the role bullshit is exactly the reason she would do it as scum, when if she is doing it as town it is supposedly a mistake that I honestly don't think anyone could make.

Which is an outright violation of occam's razor. The simpler explanation applies.
She CAN do those things as scum--but typically only one at a time in limited doses.
Doing them all at once is simply outside of her scum range altogether. Because the simpler explanation is, while she CAN do those things as scum, she is far FAR more likely to do them as town.

This is fallacy and you should know exactly why

The burden of proof lies on the accuser.

So, what has NicoRobin done that is actually

scum

?

I still intend to get on that in detail later. However, if you want to look at mechanics, I still don't think it's possible she could have no-resulted you and you still received the message detailing the whole thing. I am also absolutely goddamn certain that she tried to kill me last night. I have fuckin magical powers that detect whenever Yume is trying to kill me in an RC upick, which have the same amount of legitimacy as your soul read claims. I can tell you for a fact that without any prompting, scum!her has belittled my play, town!her has respected it, and whatever we have here has again belittled it. Your interpretation that she is still trying to solve the game is EXTREMELY wishful thinking; she is deathtunneling 4 people, and appears to have no townreads that she is actively working with. I also think there is a tell where you can determine her angle when she talks about her own proficiency

[jjh927]

Oh oops I have a misplaced [/quote] not that that broke anything

[jjh927]

So, jjh, who played two games with me, things he could meta-read me better than mastina, who played more than four games with me?

Try again, pal.

I think you can manipulate your gameplay to get Mastina, who has played a lot of games with you and likes to use meta, to believe you're town.

[jjh927]

Do you think you can meta-read me better than her? Yes or no? No offshooting.

I don't know

[jjh927]

Goddamn does RC lock the thread whenever anyone pretends to shoot someone

[jjh927]

Does he like, have to check your role PM just in case you're actually a dayvig and he didn't realise it

[jjh927]

He locked it for Nico too though and she defo isn't a dayvig

[jjh927]

I still want to lynch NicoRobin though

Can someone give me a more solid meta rundown of NSG

[jjh927]

Not quantifiable

I hate that kind of thing


Be more quantifiable

[jjh927]

Yo it just occurred to me I could take mastina hostage

@RC any chance of a VC?

[jjh927]

Actually votes don't matter that much

The day will end in (expired on 2018-11-04 17:00:00).

Right everyone

I am going to be imposing a new timer on this game

In (expired on 2018-10-29 00:00:00) I will use ZA WARUDO to freeze your votes and Mastina won't be able to use her gladiate today

The only way to thwart my evil plan is for her to gladiate before that time

[jjh927]

[jjh927]

The only way to thwart my evil plan is for her to gladiate before that time

I think there's a flaw in your plan.

It's called
UNVOTE: .

Wrong, if I freeze the votes then gladiates will not work

[jjh927]

Sometimes what we really need is a villain

[jjh927]

But yeah, just to reiterate, back when Mastina first claimed, I asked RC how my role would interact with a normal gladiator if I had frozen the votes first, and my role would outright prevent a gladiator from being able to gladiate in that scenario.

In 2 days, 1 hour, 40 minutes I will use ZA WARUDO to freeze your votes and Mastina won't be able to use her gladiate today

Tick tock

[jjh927]

No voters will still be able to shift votes, yes

[jjh927]

but if you freeze votes then ppl have to do things.

[jjh927]

@RC any chance of a VC?

I'd still like this and I'm willing to collect hurt tags if people want to be scared of voting now

[jjh927]

But yeah, just to reiterate, back when Mastina first claimed, I asked RC how my role would interact with a normal gladiator if I had frozen the votes first, and my role would outright prevent a gladiator from being able to gladiate in that scenario.

In 2 days, 1 hour, 40 minutes I will use ZA WARUDO to freeze your votes and Mastina won't be able to use her gladiate today

Tick tock

wtf this didn't quote properly

The actual remaining time is (expired on 2018-10-29 00:00:00).

[jjh927]

You gonna get involved in the game or just be all "haha this is a thing EMOJI"

[jjh927]

Well you have under 48 hours

[jjh927]

Actually votes don't matter that much

The day will end in (expired on 2018-11-04 17:00:00).

Right everyone

I am going to be imposing a new timer on this game

In (expired on 2018-10-29 00:00:00) I will use ZA WARUDO to freeze your votes and Mastina won't be able to use her gladiate today

The only way to thwart my evil plan is for her to gladiate before that time

[jjh927]

I took back control

[jjh927]

People who are not voting will not be frozen

However, it does prevent the use of roles such as gladiator regardless

[jjh927]

VOTE: Jjh

The hardest choices require the strongest wills

[jjh927]

He thinks I'd be scumclaiming by using my ability

Of course, I disagree

[jjh927]

We just had someone else replace out, because the game is long while little is happening. There is not enough pressure to make decisions. The game is essentially in the hands of Mastina, who can either show she is capable of taking action or I will remove it from her control. I would rather risk a mislynch than have town get any more detached from this game. If I have to be the bad guy to achieve this then so be it, but I'm deadly serious.

[jjh927]

In order for Mastina to gladiate without compromising her principles, other people are going to have to vote on who to gladiate

[jjh927]

@RC any chance of a VC?

I'd still like this and I'm willing to collect hurt tags if people want to be scared of voting now

[jjh927]

Mastina could literally speed this game up but she doesn't care to do so. So it kinda looks she's scum just sitting back and letting this game spiral out of control. Also the ppl not doing anything aren't being pressured by her or anyone but me.

Also this; I'm growing more concerned that this is exactly how the disloyal scum version of her role would play after she claimed without realising how useful her role would be to town.

[jjh927]

I don't think I really care whether or not she's the town loyal or disloyal scum version rn though

[jjh927]

But yeah I say let Jingle react how he likes because it's reasonable to question me playing in a way that is mechanically suboptimal

[jjh927]

I don't think she's gonna hipshoot it though

We should attempt to reach a consensus. I am objectively going to be using ZA WARUDO when that timer runs out unless Mastina has gladiated by then.

[jjh927]

People who are voting at the time of the freeze are the only ones affected. In fact, if everyone unvotes just before I do it, then you'd all be unaffected. The only effect would be the prevention of abilities such as gladiates.